ZOE Science & Nutrition - Recap: Improve blood vessel health to slow aging | Dr William Li

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Today we’re finding out how to improve blood vessel health with New York Times best selling author, Dr. William Li. Dr. Li has some simple steps we can take to not only slow down the deterioration of our blood vessels, but also to reduce any existing blockages that we may, or may not yet know about. Learn how your body responds to food with ZOE 👉 start here 📚 Books from our ZOE Scientists: Food For Life by Prof. Tim Spector Every Body Should Know This by Dr Federica Amati Free resources from ZOE: Live Healthier: Top 10 Tips From ZOE Science & Nutrition  Gut Guide - for a healthier microbiome in weeks Have feedback or a topic you'd like us to cover? Let us know here Listen to the full episode here

Hello, and welcome to Zoe Recap, where each week we find the best bits from one of our podcast episodes to help you improve your health. Today we're discussing how to improve blood vessel health. About 18 months ago, New York Times bestselling author, Dr. William Lee, sat down with me to explain some simple steps that we can take to not only slow down the deterioration of our blood vessels, but also to actually reduce any existing blockages that we can take to not only slow down the deterioration of our blood vessels, but also to actually reduce any existing blockages that we may or may not yet know about. Is it destiny that our blood vessels are going to get damaged over time? Or are there ways that

we can slow that process down or perhaps even reverse that process? The answer is, and this is what's quite striking, it's possible to take somebody who has existing established blockages in their blood vessels who would otherwise be requiring a stent, the plumber, call the plumber, put the equipment in, or requiring drugs like the statins, all right, that if you actually give them an intensive regimen of lifestyle change, starting with their diet, you cut down or cut out the saturated meats, no red meat, remove that, okay, and you upend their dietary equation by putting them on high fiber foods fruits and vegetables with high fiber what does that do oh it feeds your gut microbiome now your gut bacteria

are happier they restore their community their ecosystem now they're working in your favor all right this lifestyle change now you can eat foods, more foods, fruits and vegetables, nuts and legumes, seeds that actually then renew, regenerate the damaged lining. So, you know, just like our skin renews itself and our hair for most people renews itself. Right. Which is why we need a haircut and the skin sheds, which is why people have dandruff, all right, there's a renewal of the blood vessels. If you eat foods, lots of foods that actually have healthy bioactives, natural chemicals that can stimulate regeneration. So an example would be anthocyanins that are present in dark chocolate or that are present in blueberries. They will actually help to renew, replace those old damaged liner cells in your blood vessels. Now you're actually regenerating damaged tissue. So what's quite fascinating? With intensive lifestyle change, starting with diet, replace unhealthy fats with healthier fats.

Omega-3s are better than butter and palm oil and lots of other less than healthy fats. Cut down the amount of oil. Omega-3s are a very healthy form of fats. You can get them from nuts and seeds. You can also get them from seafood, which is known to be heart healthy. You're actually protecting the liner. You're starting to dissolve by replacing, regenerating the liner. You're actually also dissolving some of the plaques that have accumulated. So it's sort of like mother nature's toothbrush using the natural substances that are present in your foods. And you can replace and reverse heart disease. Diet, by the way, is only part of the equation. There's other things like regular physical

activity. That's helpful helpful why does that it gets the blood that your juice is flowing literally get your blood flowing that's important for reversing heart disease of stress lowering stress and sleep this sounds great it's very much in line interestingly with the advice for things that got nothing to do with blood vessels so it's always interesting how much alignment there is at the maximum level are there real clinical trials and studies that support this? Because I think some people will be listening and saying, you know, well, reversing, you know, heart damage,

that sounds a bit radical. You know, I know that Will's a doctor, but, you know, are you way out on the ledge? Is there the data to support what you're saying? Yeah, well, first of all, I was a skeptic on this for many years, okay? I'm part of a cadre of life scientists that actually I've been involved with biotech drug development. So for me, my wheelhouse actually has been to develop the

latest new drugs. And actually I've been involved with developing the stem cell therapies and gene therapies for heart disease. So I'm not a kale waver. I'm not somebody that sort of stepped away from the fold. For those of you who are on video, you'll see that Will doesn't look like a care waiver either, but if you're just on audio, it's harder to tell. So I believe in medicine. I believe in advancing medicine, and I was a skeptic. I'm like, how can lifestyle do it? But I have to say, from the very beginning, we know that after you have a heart attack, that if you go for what they

call cardiac rehabilitation, cardiac rehab, that's what every patient leaving the hospital undergoes to recover from a heart attack. It's a manner of actually diet and lifestyle and reduction. And if you really take it pure clinical study that have actually compared interventions to lifestyle management. I would cite the work of Dr. Dean Ornish, who is a professor at University of California, San Francisco. He's at the Preventative Medical Research Institute. He's actually done a career, probably 40 or 50 years worth of research looking at the reversal of heart disease that does not require the hardware and pharmaceuticals. Again, it's not a silver bullet. It is not a one-step deal. It's a pretty big commitment for somebody who's lived their life to actually suddenly be, quote, scared straight, and that because you've had a heart attack or you've had a big warning sign, and now you need

to actually change your diet and find new ways to eat that bring you joy and then to learn how to lower stress i mean how many of us live in a continuous state of stress especially if you're building a career i'm running a startup doing this podcast have children i'm i'm 100 in a permanent state of stress, Will. And I can tell you, training in medicine, I mean, just being a doctor going through the training is high stress all the time. That's not good for us. And so one of the reasons why people that work at a high level of stress, probably like you and me, that's why we enjoy vacation so much, is that when we take a break, our body truly thanks us for it. Our minds also do as well. Our gut bacteria also thanks us for it because we tend to be more active and probably eat slightly healthier things and take it easy on

ourselves. And so I think this idea of self-renewal is very important for not only preventing disease, but reversing disease. And that's why I'm trying to emphasize it is definitely possible to reverse heart disease. It's not, you know, just pop a pill in your mouth and swallow it, chase it down with a drink of water. It's a commitment to a better lifestyle, a healthier lifestyle. I don't think you're saying to people that everyone should stop taking their statins who has currently got them from doctors. I think I don't believe you're saying that. Is that right, Will? You're saying that there is ultimately this enormous impact that you can have through your diet and your lifestyle, which, you know, there's real scientific data to support.

Am I, is that fair? Am I putting words in your mouth? No, no, you are absolutely correct. And as I said, I'm a big believer in using the best tools, but my own philosophy is that if you put somebody on a medicine, the goal should always be as a doctor to figure out how to get them off the medicine. And if all you do is to renew the prescription over and over, and you just tell the patient, just take it. That's what you need to do. We're not doing enough. And I think what patients and people need to realize is that if you actually have cardiovascular disease, there's a tour of health care that you can do for yourself. It doesn't rely on a doctor. There's no anesthesia required. It doesn't require a pharmaceutical. It requires something that you do at home, which is caring for your

heart health. And that's done with diet, physical activity, sleep and stress management. I think it's brilliant. I really want to talk a bit about aging because we've talked a lot, obviously, about heart health. And we're very conscious that might affect your ultimate length of your life. But at first glance,

like aging doesn't seem very linked to heart health. To me, it doesn't really seem obviously linked to your core research about blood vessels. But I know we were having a discussion prior to this call, and we're talking about aging and dementia. Could you tell us a bit about how your research has taken you here, what the links are with sort of all of the things about our blood vessels? First of all, people think of aging in a very particular snapshot-y sort of way, right? We think about our grandparents. We think about a picture of an actor that we know who's now at the twilight of their career or their life. And look at all that gray hair. Look at all those wrinkles. That's a snapshot

in time. Here's the reality. The moment we are born, the moment the doctor delivered us and gave it that little swat on the butt to allow us to take our first breath, that's when the aging clock starts. We are aging from the moment we are born. That's very depressing. Well, but I would say that's only because our social construct of aging is looking at the terminal components of our life. But if you rethink aging in a different way and say, you know what, aging is completely normal. It starts from the time we were born and we just continuously advance, you know? Right. So don't think about it as getting better and then getting worse, which I think, after all, my children are all terribly keen to

be older. And then that suddenly switches, doesn't it, for different people at different ages? You know, I think, you know, I remember a long time ago, turning 30 seemed like somehow that was the tip. But I know other people who, frankly, didn't get there till they were 50 or 70. Well, you know, so here's an interesting thing. When I was in medical school, which was in the 90s, we were looking at the average longevity of people to be like in the early 70s, 72. Now people live to 86, 87, 88 routinely. Right. And so think about that from a societal perspective. Our whole society, when we live in a country, in a nation that has means and resources, everyone actually gets older.

By the way, here's another thing for you. A hundred years ago, you know, like most people only live to like 40 or 50. Like, so we pretty much doubled our lifespan. I mean, here we are like, you know, bitching and moaning about like, you know, not living to 100 or aspiring to live to 120. I would say step back and take a look at the big picture. 100 years ago, we didn't live half as long as we live now. Thank you for listening to today's recap episode. I want to take 30 seconds to talk about something

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