ZOE Science & Nutrition - Why your workout should change with each new decade | Gabby Reece & Dr. Federica Amati

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Staying fit isn’t just for athletes - it’s a lifelong commitment that evolves with age. But how do we maintain strength, resilience, and motivation through different life stages? In this episode, Gabby Reece, legendary volleyball player and fitness leader, shares how she has adapted her training over nearly 40 years. From her peak as a professional athlete to balancing fitness with motherhood and now prioritizing longevity at 54, Gabby reveals what has kept her consistent and injury-free. She’s joined by Dr. Federica Amati, Head Nutritionist at ZOE and best-selling author of Every Body Should Know This, who explains how our movement and nutritional needs change over time. Together, they discuss the science behind exercise at every age, why midlife fitness is crucial for preventing frailty, and practical strategies to stay active for the long run. Whether you're starting fresh or looking to refine your routine, this episode will inspire you to train smarter and stay strong for life. 🥑 Make smarter food choices. Become a member at zoe.com - 10% off with code PODCAST 🌱 Try our new plant based wholefood supplement - Daily 30+ Follow ZOE on Instagram. Timecodes 🥑 Make smarter food choices. Become a member at http://zoe.com Staying fit isn’t just for athletes - it’s a lifelong commitment that evolves with age. But how do we maintain strength, resilience, and motivation through different life stages? In this episode, Gabby Reece, legendary volleyball player and fitness leader, shares how she has adapted her training over nearly 40 years. From her peak as a professional athlete to balancing fitness with motherhood and now prioritizing longevity at 54, Gabby reveals what has kept her consistent and injury-free. She’s joined by Dr. Federica Amati, Head Nutritionist at ZOE and best-selling author of Every Body Should Know This, who explains how our movement and nutritional needs change over time. Together, they discuss the science behind exercise at every age, why midlife fitness is crucial for preventing frailty, and practical strategies to stay active for the long run. Whether you're starting fresh or looking to refine your routine, this episode will inspire you to train smarter and stay strong for life. 🌱 Try our new plant based wholefood supplement - Daily30: https://zoe.com/daily30?utm_medium=zoe_podcast&utm_source=podcast_platform&utm_campaign=d30 Follow ZOE on Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/zoe/ Timecodes 00:00 Introduction 01:57 Quickfire questions 03:50 From college kid to pro-athlete 05:30 Risks of repetitive exercise 06:05 Best injury prevention tips 07:10 Prehab vs rehab 12:20 Fitness during pregnancy 17:20 Keeping fit with a family 22:12 How to workout in your 50s 24:30 How to age better 27:44 This makes you feel better instantly 29:20 The truth about core workouts 31:48 Foot strength in older age 35:40 3 ways to stick to your fitness plan 42:28 You need this everyday 46:35 Get outside for this many minutes each day 48:10 Give yourself a 90 day reset 📚Books by our ZOE Scientists The Food For Life Cookbook Every Body Should Know This by Dr Federica Amati Food For Life by Prof. Tim Spector Free resources from ZOE Live Healthier: Top 10 Tips From ZOE Science & Nutrition Gut Guide - For a Healthier Microbiome in Weeks  Have feedback or a topic you'd like us to cover? Let us know here. Episode transcripts are available here.

Welcome to ZOE Science and Nutrition, where world-leading scientists explain how their research can improve your health. Do you ever look at old photos and think, I should have felt happier with how I was. I wish I was still in such good shape. Perhaps today you feel powerless, you can't move like that anymore and more life responsibilities make it hard to fit in exercise every week. It's natural that as we age, many of us feel like peak physical form is a thing of the past. But what if I told you that peak fitness need not be a fleeting memory?

There are good reasons why you can achieve it at any stage of life. Today's guest is living proof. She's adapted her fitness routines at every life stage, from professional volleyball career to motherhood and now to thriving and exuding vibrant energy in her 50s. Her journey shows that peak fitness is about adapting to life's transitions. And importantly, it's also about knowledge,

knowledge you can only gather with age and experience. In this episode, Gabby Reese shows us how to train like a lifelong athlete. Named one of the 20 most influential women in sports by Women's Sports and Fitness magazine, Gabby's a former professional volleyball player, Nike's first female spokesperson, a wife and a mother of three. She's joined by Dr Federica Amati, Zoe's head nutritionist, a scientist at Imperial College London and author of the best-selling book Everybody Should Know This. Together, they dive into the movement and nutrition strategies you need at each stage of life.

You'll come away from this episode with practical tools to stay strong and show up for yourself no matter what life throws your way. And if you're looking for ways to show up more consistently for your health, and I'm guessing you are as you're listening to this podcast, do check out Zoe's Personalised Nutrition Programme. Because committing to a change is easier when the change feels exciting. And what's more exciting than eating more of the foods you love? The ZOE app gives you a list of hundreds of delicious foods that are proven healthy to your unique biology. We take your unique ZOE test results, we combine them with our science to recommend the healthiest foods for you.

Here at ZOE, we study the world's largest gut microbiome database and our data shows that when you eat a greater variety of foods, your gut will take better care of you. That's why we believe in abundant through variety, not restriction. Doesn't that sound like a change that's easier to commit to? Visit zoe.com to sign up for our personalized nutrition membership today. Speaking of variety, we also just released a plant-based supplement that packs 30 plants into one crunchy scoop. It's called Daily 30, and you can sprinkle it on any meal for a science-back boost.

Okay, let's get on with today's episode with Gabby Reis and Dr. Federica Romati. Gabby, thank you Dr. Federica Amati. Gabby, thank you for joining me today. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. And Federica, thank you for joining me as well. Hi, Jonathan, so good to be here. So Federica knows this, but Gabby, we have a tradition here at Zoey

where we always start with a quick fire round of questions from our listeners. And with these very strict rules, you can say yes or no, or if you have to, a one sentence answer. You ready for that? We have rules at the top of this interview. I like it. Let's go. Okay. Gabby, can you only reach peak fitness when you're young? Peak fitness? No, you can continue older. Federica, should exercise stop in pregnancy? No.

Do your fitness needs change with age? Yes. Gabby, is peak fitness something you can measure on a machine at the gym? No. Finally, you have a whole sentence Gabby, what do you think is the biggest misconception when it comes to lifelong fitness? That it has to be really arduous and hard and miserable, that it's really about consistency and a good strategy that's changing and you don't have to be miserable the whole time. I love that because I basically spent my life feeling like exercise is misery, but I do

it because it's supposed to be good for me. So I would like to come out by the end of this session being more convinced about that or how I could do that. When we reached out to our listeners to say we were doing this podcast, we got a lot of listeners asking us about staying fit in their 50s and beyond. And Gabby, I know it's public, you're 54 years old and you're continuing to dedicate your life to fitness. And that really started, you know, I think like 40 years ago or something, as a professional volleyball player. So this has been a, like a consistent period of time. And so while no one is ever going to believe that I have dedicated my life to

fitness, and I think many of our listeners won't have done, I think we're really interested to talk today about how to adapt your approach and your tips for managing to stay motivated, even when eating cake might feel a lot more appealing than doing exercise. And I'm pleased to say we have Federica here as well, who I hope is going to share the science behind how we can best adapt to like these changing stages of our life. And I know that some of these tips come from your bestselling book, Everybody Should Know This. I'd like to start, Gabby, if that's right, sort of at the beginning of your fitness journey,

and maybe sort of describe like what the start of your athletic career was like, you know, how old were you, what was the reality of your training, and maybe also what was the reality of your relationship with nutrition at that time? I'll try to keep it really brief. So I was what, you know, one would call a late bloomer. I just was very tall. I'm 190 or 6'3", depending on where you live. And I moved from the Virgin Islands to Florida,

got into volleyball. My last two years of high school ended up going to college on a scholarship. That's the only reason I would have gone to college. Very primary training, really basic, probably not very sophisticated, mostly sort of time in the gym. Later then became a professional athlete. My training got a little more layered. I had people, I moved to California, got input from trainers. The first time I had a real trainer, I was 22 and a professional athlete. But again, this was in 1992, so we know a lot more about

functional movement versus, you know, squats and burpees, which was sort of more of my era and we carbo-loaded, by the way. So I will say that my training now is much more sophisticated, much smarter. You know, that's how the gods work it out. You always get the good information as you get older. So true! And it's the truth for my nutrition. I can say that I never really thought that much about it. You know, we were sort of eating egg whites and protein, but I certainly would eat pasta and bagels

because we were taught that those were empty calories. We didn't realize that those were converted to glucose or sugar into your body and also didn't really maybe always help you recover. I will say that that part of my life, both lanes have really expanded and improved as I've gotten older. So I would say pretty basic and actually my training probably grinded down my body more so than I would say helped my performance. And when you say grinded it down, what do you think? You know, people don't realize repetitive motion. You know this, you know, from any sport. I don't care what sport. Repetitive motion, doing something over and over and over, there's a give, something's gonna give. And unless you're training to balance that out,

which I do now, you'll have a knee, you'll have a back, you'll have something that gives. So I think that I didn't really start to look at that until I was in my 30s. I have a son, he's almost 17, and he's really got into the gym in the last six months. And I'm constantly saying, oh, be 17 and he's really got into the gym in the last six months. And I'm constantly saying, oh, be careful about that.

You might hurt yourself. He doesn't hurt himself. He's fine. He puts on muscle overnight. I feel he could just sort of get away with things where I'm constantly worrying about whether I injure myself and I certainly don't make much progress. Well, the number one teacher is injury. I've learned everything through being

hurt because you're motivated. So I'm so grateful for those injuries because I think that you go, this isn't working. What can I do differently? Certainly when you're young, especially male, you just want to bulk up when you're a woman, you know, unless you're doing a sport, you want to be trim and, you know, have your butt look cute in jeans. And it's just different than this idea of training for performance. So I was training to try to be able to last through a weekend of competition or to be explosive in the sand.

But I didn't understand the things I really needed to do off the court that would have supported me doing that, not only better, but not having all those motions kind of work against me in the long run. Sometimes when we talk about fitness, I think it's important there's performance fitness, which in ways should be supportive of being better at your sport and also help you recover and avoid injury.

You'll see tennis players now, they have prehab. They not only have rehab, they have prehab because they're smarter. And they're just a little bit better in that story. However, I think people think they're going to get hurt. But if you have a real strategy and you're functionally moving, you're moving in ways that are really intelligent

and on one foot and in all kinds of planes of motion, you really can do this a very long time at a pretty high level or even start later as long as you have a strategy. Federico, as you're listening to this, you know, imagine someone in their 20s thinking about movement and nutrition, like, you know, what does the science say today about like what's most important? Well, it's interesting, like Gabby mentioned, that if you do the same thing again and again and again, it does where, especially your joints, they suffer. And if you don't recover from that insult, as I would call it, then it doesn't help you.

And it's interesting because with nutrition, we think about this the same way. So in your 20s, you're very resilient. Your metabolism, your metabolic fitness is good. But if you're constantly challenging your metabolism throughout your 20s, then when you get to your 30s, you'll start to notice that actually that's not working anymore. So I've never thought about sort of nutrition rehab in that way, but actually when we think about, for instance, if you have a meal that doesn't support your health so much today, then actually what you do tomorrow is almost,

could be nutrition rehab where actually you get everything back into shape and support your health so much today, then actually what you do tomorrow is almost, could be nutrition rehab where actually you get everything back into shape and you nurture your body with foods that will help to recover from the metabolic challenge that perhaps wasn't an outburger because you're in LA, right? I'm sort of struck that you're describing sort of the start of your athletic career

and probably the point where you push this really hard and you're saying actually in some ways it was much less sophisticated than you are now. And part of that is just that it's the time so that people are just more sophisticated. We know more now. And part of it is probably also one's approach and attitude. You're describing the fact that there's nothing like injury to teach you and those injuries tend to happen later in time. When do you consider that your fitness was at its peak across your athletic career? There's like life fitness,

where you can do all the things you want to do and enjoy them, or maybe take on a, say like I'm going to do a mini triathlon this weekend. So you have that kind of fitness. When you're doing sports, sometimes you have spent so many hours doing the sport that you're sort of trying to slide in your training. And is it before the season? Is it after the season? Is it during

the season? But I see young people right now training so much smarter, you know, even high school students, because people are really so much better at training than when I started. I will say that having separated the two, all of us are athletes. We have bodies. We use them. And it doesn't matter. Someone listening could be even older than I am and say, well, I'm not an athlete. We're all athletes. Our bodies are meant to move. And so in this beautiful way, there's this intersection of training that is beneficial for the athlete and beneficial for, let's just call it the householder or the everyday person, where certain primary movements benefit us across the board and being able to move in these ways

would help anyone. But you have to understand enough of it and not be afraid of it and be afraid to be bad at it, which I still am at this day and time. I do exercises that I'm not good at because I know that I'll adapt, I'll learn, I'll improve and it will support me. Well, I think it's clear that you sort of spent your whole life revolving around training, just listening to you. You're like sort of in the same, even as I'm sitting down in the chair, I'm thinking about my training. I definitely don't think about that when I'm sitting down in the chair, I go, oh, chair. So no one could describe me as an athlete.

So I can't relate to that, but I definitely can relate to the idea that as you get older, your life starts to get overwhelmed with a lot of external responsibility. And I know that today you're a mother of three, you know, you've got a family and business and all these things that you're also combining with wanting to be healthy. And of course, we all get a year older every year. So I'd love to know, maybe starting this question about how did your relationship with fitness change sort of from the point of becoming pregnant and during motherhood? So I went into pregnancy pretty fit. I always tell people, listen, if you find out you get pregnant, that's not the time to go, hey, I'm going to get in the shape of my life.

However, you can sort of have a continuous story of your level into your pregnancy, you know, minus a few exercises. But we, if you're feeling good enough, because I always honor everybody has a different experience when they're pregnant. Some people it's like, hey, I just need to get a meal down and take a walk. So I think one thing that I always try to stress for people is, is two things at once, 100% accountability and honesty with yourself, but a little grace. Because if we just beat ourselves up, that doesn't work. But being honest, like, hey, you can do it, you're just being lazy. So I think it's that

combination. But I took my fitness all the way in and through my pregnancy, and that really paid off for me because the time you're really tired is when the baby comes. Let's not play games. That's when you're sleep deprived, if you're nursing. I mean, there's a whole myriad of things where that's, for me, was the time I was like, thank goodness I have this fitness practice in my pocket to support me through, you know, very small, my kids were not good sleepers, through that. And the other part of that is for people in the grace part to go, I've just had a baby,

or I'm seven or eight months pregnant, I love when women go, I'm so big. I'm like, no, I think you're pregnant. And those are different. So, it's showing yourself the grace for whatever phase and'm like, no, I think you're pregnant. And those are different. So, it's showing yourself the grace for whatever phase and stage you're in based on what you're dealing with. Federica, you said in the quickfire questions that you can do exercise during pregnancy. You know, Gabby's pulling her face as if it's obvious. I'm pretty sure that when I was a kid, it was like, you absolutely mustn't do any exercise when you're pregnant. It's really dangerous and you should be, you know, protected in cotton wool.

And you're both looking at me as I'm an idiot. So, I mean, what does the science say today? Yeah, I mean, the science is actually really clear that fitness and pregnancy is really important. But exactly as Gary said, like, we don't want to, you don't want to suddenly start running if you've never been a runner, for example. So there's certain things that our bodies adapted for if we're doing that exercise. So if you're somebody who actually ran quite consistently before pregnancy, then you're likely to be able to continue running in pregnancy and it won't negatively impact your pregnancy.

But starting something brand new or suddenly taking that time as your time to take up exercise, it's not the best idea. What is really clear is that movement throughout pregnancy is really critical for the health of the mother, the health of the baby, and reducing the risk of chronic disease of pregnancy, whether that's gestational diabetes or preeclampsia. So moving in whatever way you can, and I love your message of grace, what is available to you? If you're someone who just loves walking,

walking is a really valid way to do this. But there is also a really interesting area of research that looks at how physical fitness improves outcomes of the birth itself. So women who train in pregnancy at whatever level they're at tend to have easier births. Is that right? Yeah. So like, it's a very physical experience.

Of course, if you're having a caesarean section, it's different. But then being physically fit really helps with caesarean section recovery. But when we're thinking about natural delivery or vaginal birth, like it actually helps the outcome, the speed, everything that goes with that. And exactly as Gabby said, postnatally, if you already have a fitness practice, it does make recovery easier. And there is a little bit of this cotton wool wrapping with pregnant women. Some of them are scared to exercise until they've seen their doctor at six weeks. They will be very hesitant. And I think it's going

back to this message of like, listen to your body, know where you are in your journey. So I'll use myself as an example with my first daughter. I felt good pretty quickly after delivering her. With my second, I had to have a cesarean, she was breech, and actually that recovery was way harder. So it was about listening to my body and knowing like when it was too much, I remember we went for this very long walk one day

and I was like, I've pushed it, and I had to like sit down, listen to your body. It will tell you if like it's not working. But it is important to remember that physical fitness in pregnancy is actually really important for the mother and the baby. So we shouldn't underestimate that. It's important. I'd like to share something exciting. Back in March 2022, we started this podcast to uncover how the latest research can help us live longer and healthier lives. We've spoken to leading scientists around the world doing amazing research. And across hundreds of hours of conversations, they've revealed key insights that can help you to improve your health. If you don't have hundreds of hours to spare, no need to worry.

At the request of many of you, our team has created a guide that contains 10 of the most impactful discoveries from the podcast that you can apply to your life. And you can get it for free. Simply go to zoe.com slash free guide or click the link in the show notes and do let me know what you think of it. Okay, back to the show. So Gabby, you came in with a big benefit, right? So you're basically an athlete that's about as fit as you can be. I have momentum.

Momentum, I like that. So you're in a great shape going into the hat. And I think lots of listeners either will have been pregnant or their partners will have been pregnant. And so they'll know both the pregnancy can be a tough period and equally it's really short compared to the 18 years afterwards of having the child and that you tend, many people layer this on.

I think you've layered this on three times you have three children, right? Yeah. So I am guessing that there's a point where sort of sticking with fitness gets much more difficult than actually even in that first pregnancy as you're starting to lay on, you know, three children and the reality of that. When was this hardest? And be honest, was there not a point where you just like gave up for a year? Here's the thing, I'm here to serve my family, every person in my family. And I think a lot of

people, both partners have this attitude. I don't think it's just the mother. I think both partners in their way serve the family. But I am ruthless about my time. And meaning you could have a new baby and if it's 12 minutes because you put them down, I'm going to do something. And so I think I've always had the attitude where sort of understanding I'm not going to be good for anyone and I'm going to probably resent the fact that I gave up all this, you know, something for myself to serve everybody, so that now by my age, if you, you know, get spit out of kind of raising children and doing all of that, and you feel left behind. I see a lot of my friends being like, well, my partner, their life didn't change that much. And my kids, they're big and they're gone.

So within that, it's almost like schedule. I always say I scheduled it. Now, as my kids got more independent and bigger, sure my workouts got longer and more elaborate. But whatever I could fit in, I was really ruthless about, or it doesn't have to be fancy. Is it body squats or I have a dumbbell on the side and I'm doing some primary movements? And reminding people too that that is a good example. I have three daughters. To show your family that taking care of yourself

is not only important, no one's gonna remind you. My kids aren't gonna be like, hey, why don't you go work out? This is on us to do. And it's counter kind of our training. We're taught to feel guilty or weird about that. And I think it's so important to go, yeah, no, this is part of the same as picking someone

from school and preparing dinner. This is also part of serving the family, which is me staying strong and sane. Yeah. And so did you timetable this in? So I'm thinking back to the point when, you know, let's say you have three small children. See, I spaced mine out. So I want to also say that if people have three smaller kids, that's a different, you're doing a different dance. Life is crazy. And you know, I always love these moms that it's all I am like, are they medicated? Are they what are they crying in the bathroom?

Like everyone, you know, and everybody has to do it. Like I never put my kids really on a rigid schedule. There's plenty of moms who they nap at this time, they go to bed at this time, and that works for them and their family. Our family was not like that. And so it was like, here's a window, take it. So that's funny, because I would have assumed, again, this is like my pure like bias as a non-athlete, that like you're an athlete. So everything is super disciplined. You've got lots of discipline. So I just assume that, you know, you have a little schedule that starts at 3am and then runs through till 8 p.m. and everything is carefully organized. This is not an accurate summary of-

The hierarchal thing you can do in fitness is to be adaptable. If you want to go through all the things in performance and fitness, it's that you can adapt. You could eat high carbs, you could eat ketosis, whatever your body would know what to turn into what energy, and you would be emotionally flexible. I'm training now to show up in life. And so am I going to flip out because I have a schedule that then I can't adhere to because one of my kids is kids don't do they're not they don't cut they're not compliant. They're not going to be like, Oh, sorry, I know you have a schedule. So I think I learned really early

that being adaptable was gonna serve my wellbeing, my emotional wellbeing, my expectations, way better than, well, I have a schedule. It's like, yeah, that's great and life's happening. So I think it's having a relationship with all of those things, with chaos. I mean, I love that. Definitely, I suspect I'm not the only person.

I imagine quite a lot of listeners also feel like that feels a bit more sort of understandable than getting everything like perfectly run. I think it's about evaluating where you are and having realistic expectations and having a loose plan. Like, hey, it seems like the kids go down for a nap around this time. If I don't have a meeting or some work responsibility to pay the bills, I'll get it done then. Oh, if I wake up a little bit earlier, my husband will take the kids. So I think it's sort of so important to always be

checking in with yourself and what your life is looking like and what's going on with your children at that time and going with it because that's working closer with reality instead of it's not going the way I planned. And so really it was a constant reevaluation like where the kids at, what are the needs, and where can I slide it in? We talk quite a lot at the show about how nobody really talks about what happens as our bodies change and therefore what is different about what we have to do. So actually, you know, in all honesty, would really like to talk about how do you approach working out and fitness today, you know, what is different and go from there. Well, first off, you know, mindset, I'd like to invite everybody that, you know, I used to joke about age, because it's, I'm aware of it,

you know, it's just part of life. But it sort of doesn't really freak me out because I also am a person of like, it is what it is. And I'm not going to swim upstream on this one, like I'm getting older, it's okay. So it's sort of the mindset of how old are you? Well, you're alive. Like you're not dead. So how old are you? Well, I'm alive. And the other thing is like, if you have a group of friends that hang out with you

and they're constantly talking about their age or how hard it is or whatever, really get new friends. Because I think that that reinforcement of I'm this age and I can't do that now that I'm in my 40s, I'm in my 50s, I think that holds us back. And I do think it has a physiological impact on our hormones, on our cells, on our vitality, our life force. And so just to kind of re-invite people to go be playful, have fun, and pay attention

to your vital spirit first, your life force. Because we're a lot of things, right? People are business people, they've got a title there, then they're someone's wife or husband, then they've got a title there, they're someone's mom or dad, they have a title there. And I've talked about this a little bit, which is, I'm just me. And some moments, even if it's just a short period of time, I use my exercise life to just be me and be playful in that time and not limit myself because I go, oh, I'm 54. It's like, yeah, and how lucky am I? I have this healthy body-ish and I'm here.

So, it starts with it's a priority. It's a value to me. To be healthy is a value. Then it's mindset of, healthy is a value. Then it's mindset of, okay, so I'm this age and what does that mean? And to kind of keep pushing on that envelope, not to prove something, because we see that too. We see people who all of a sudden it's like they're exercising almost to prove or go against age, but keep pushing to go, well, how hard could I work or how much could I do? And do that for your own satisfaction and creativity versus, you know, you're proving a point or you're trying to stay skinny. That's a nightmare. Yeah. It doesn't really serve you for older age. There's really interesting research looking exactly at this mindset thing.

So you can actually see how people perceive aging predicts how they age. So if you have an attitude, so I always talk about aging as a privilege, right? I lost my father when he was 63. He never got to be an old man. So whenever people are like, oh, it's like, you're alive. Exactly. You're alive. You get to be here. And there's fascinating research that literally, if you fear aging, you actually age quicker. So it's not worth doing that. It doesn't serve anyone. Is this true? Yeah, yeah.

So like our approach to aging is a huge predictor of how we're going to age. I love the idea that fearing it might get in the way of actually making progress. So Gabby, if I try to get a bit more specific and said, describe to me now, like what your workout across a week looks like. Could you?

Sure, I can line it out for you. So Monday, Wednesday and Friday, like this morning, I did a form of HIIT training. So there's some weightlifting because muscle is a priority, period, end of story. And as we age, if you want to talk about, you know, the important things. And I don't want to say especially for women, but I will say especially for women, because I think men have a relationship with that and women sort of don't realize how supportive it is for them to have muscle, especially as they get older. So I make lifting a part of the priority, but I make functional patterns and movements. So can I be

strong also in a functional way? So proprioception and balance, working on one leg, I do cardiovascular exercise, but less than you would think. I would rather do a long walk. And I do a lot of backwards walking because of my knees and my hips. And Gabby, can I ask, sorry, it's not obvious to me, why are you doing a lot of backwards walking? Well, everything we do is so forward and shortening. And this is an opportunity. And you'll feel it right away.

If people have sore, there's a guy named Ben Patrick, knees over toes. If people want to look him up, I think he does an excellent job. If people's knees and their backs and their hips are feeling like a little off, which most of us do because we're sitting way too much, this is a really easy and beautiful and strange way

to kind of work that out. And if you want to make it harder, well, my husband and I will take giant kettlebells, his or giant mine aren't. You could take a little vest if you don't want to deal with that and just go walking backwards. And you know, you turn,

so there's some really good, interesting things for your eye patterns and movements and you will feel so good. So I'll try to incorporate those long backwards walks. I just want to make sure I'm painting the picture. Are you like out in the street walking backwards trying not to fall over the things behind you? I want to say I have a good fortune of living near a wide beach. But if someone goes to the park and they can find just a strip backwards and they're not embarrassed, don't be embarrassed. Because then people, it's a conversation starter. People come up to you and go, what are you doing?

You go, oh, I'm walking backwards and you can talk all about that. And you will feel it is literally one of the things that could make you feel better instantly is walking backwards. So I prioritize muscle and functional patterns and and then I'll add walking backwards maybe two if I can get it in two times a week. And then I do a very weird pool water training that I wouldn't oversell to anyone, deep water training when I can, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday when I can get in there. And it's a lot of ballistic movement.

So you still want to be explosive as you get older. You don't want to not try to find ways to work that. But normally those things are hard on us and hard on our joints. So my husband is a surfer. And years ago, we sort of developed this training where you can go into very deep water and train with dumbbells and do these really explosive jumps, but land like a feather on the bottom of the pool, it forces your breath.

So now you've got breath work in there because you have to regulate your breath. And so there's a lot of win-wins. And then you're outside and it's kind of playful. This goes back to being a kid because you're in the pool, right? And you're with your friends and you're not feeling self-conscious.

You're just doing it and trying something different and new, which also does support your health and performance. Amazing. I want to clarify one thing, because you talked about functional patterns, and I don't know what a functional pattern is. Well, you know, most of us are working on one plane, and we're not kind of working in all these other multi-dimensional planes that we live on, and working on one leg and stepping off to the side and doing all kinds of things with an arm and an on one leg and stepping off to the side and doing all kinds of things with an arm and an opposite leg extended and things like that where you'll

hear people talk about core. Well that's in a way almost ridiculous, right? Sit up is almost ridiculous. A core is like literally from right underneath your chin to right above your knee. So how do you stabilize in every pattern when you work? And the minute I get a weight away from me, can I ask my whole body to support that weight? Let's say you're picking up a child or a dog or some heavy object. And so I train in this way that, again, I'm not great at. Sometimes you're off and you feel silly and goofy and not great, but these are the things that will

make me avoid injury, but also work well until I'm not here. And so you're thinking about like, there's a lot more that's like, sort of might be, you might be more unstable and all of these things rather than just like a very fixed pattern that you might do in a gym or in a squat or something like that? Yes, all the planes of motion. And I think something really important is machines are, okay, if someone's sitting on the couch and they haven't done anything, great,

go to the gym and use machines because they're a really nice way to have a controlled kind of introduction into movement. But once you feel good and maybe you have someone who can teach you, you wanna move in these independent patterns. Hi, I have a small favor to ask. We want this podcast to reach as many people as possible as we continue our mission to improve the health of millions.

And watching this show grow is what motivates the whole team at Zoey to keep up the really hard work of creating new episodes each week. So right now, if you could share a link to the show with one friend who would benefit from today's information, it would mean a great deal to me. Thank you. So Federica, how does this fit with the science

and like what's the role of movement in midlife? And I'd love to talk a little bit about nutrition as well. Yeah, so I mean, what you've just said is brilliant because the planes of motion is so important when we look at injury. So there's a huge increase in injuries in midlife, people doing things like suddenly going to the garden and using their trowel and they're suddenly moving diagonally for the first time in months and they pull that back out. Wow. Because when you're running, it's this way and even swimming and walking, we're all doing everything this way. And as soon as people start to like reach across,

or say you stumble backwards that way, like catching yourself on a diagonal is not something we normally do. And what's really interesting about the foot strength is that in old age, this is really fascinating trial where they put people in care homes, in like bare foot shoes, and then compared their falls and trips compared to like normal shoes. where they put people in care homes in barefoot shoes

and then compared their falls and trips compared to normal shoes. And ever since I've known this, I really notice when you see older people walking in the street, they often have these ridiculously high-soled shoes. And we have to remember that as we age, our peripheral nervous system, so the nerves that help us sense our environment

in our hands and feet, especially if you have any metabolic disease, they actually get much worse at giving you that feedback, that proprioception. And so having bare feet and having strong foot muscles, which does come from spending as much time barefoot as possible, is even more critical later in life. So in this trial, Jonathan, the people that had the barefoot shoes reduced their risk of falling by 80 percent, just because they could actually feel the floor.

And so when we think about, we know that falls in older people are one of the primary drivers for basically death eventually. So frailty means that if you are somebody who's frail and older age, and frailty doesn't have an age limit and such, but it tends to be in older people. If there's a fall, the ability to bounce back from that fall and to be resilient is impacted.

So preventing falls in older people is extremely important. Not only are they at higher risk of actually breaking a bone, but as I said, like recovering from that fall is harder as we get more frail. So functional movement across different planes, you're at the higher risk of actually breaking a bone. But as I said, like recovering from that fall is harder as we get more frail. So functional movement across different planes, maintaining the musculoskeletal mass

to actually get up from your chair and sit back down safely and being able to sense your environment and simple things like removing rugs, removing side tables in the home can have a massive impact on reducing this risk and allowing people to live independently for longer. So there's fascinating science around this. And yeah, I think especially as women, we've mistreated our feet for so long.

Like, you know, do you remember when I was in my 20s, the shoes I wore, I wouldn't even touch them now. High heels, like high, not just the heel, but the front of it was high, like teetering around. I used to run in those things. That is not good for your feet or your joints or anything or your posture. But they're cute. I would say maybe very good for you. You know how that is. I would say maybe good for your balance. Yeah, no, no, we're not meant to be pitched forward like that. And listen, if people have to wear them for work, it is what it is. But just again, that practice outside of those environments, there's even something called, they're silly, but yoga toes, right? You slide them on. Because this all stretches, all this fascia will stretch. So, if you're hanging out, working on in your

desk or something, just slide them on and they just open up your toes and sort of open up all of this space above your feet, and they're quite good. So there are things out there, that's the great thing about right now, is I don't believe in hacking your way to being fit, but there are nice little things you can do to really make some of these things easier that don't take that much effort. Right. I'd love to start talking about sort of how we can translate some of this to advice that's really helpful for our listeners.

And I think, you know, your commitment to fitness is amazing. I think a lot of our listeners will be wondering how they can develop that level of consistency. And you're saying like it wasn't even perfectly planned, and yet somehow you're making this happen through the weeks and the months and the year. So I'd love to transition to that. And I think like one of the, I think the number one question we had actually about this episode is like, how do I break out of this cycle of sort of start and stop with, you know,

with doing exercise? I think you have to come into it with doing exercise. I think you have to come into it with a strategy. I think it's impossible for any of us to go on a road trip and arrive somewhere if we don't have a plan. And it's the same with fitness. So what does that look like? Okay, the best I have is three days a week. I know I can get this hour in here.

So what is that going to look like? What do you want to prioritize? If it means one of those days is you're walking backwards day and I'm going to lift something. And when, see the thing is people here at Lift Heavy Weights, it's whatever's heavy for you. It doesn't mean these massive weights. It just means time under tension. I'm going to keep my mind open, and if I don't know how to do that,

I'm going to have somebody that teaches me. So have a strategy and plan it like you plan everything else, but also create an environment, meaning have a friend. No one can do this alone. There's those few outliers, runners, or people that this is their time,

and that's a very small percentage. So I would say you've got to recruit somebody that's like, hey, so on the day you're gonna flake, you don't because you have an appointment with them. So I would get a little bit of education if you don't have some. That's the great thing about on some way the internet. But also customize it to who you are.

Because you could find an expert, and I put that in quotes, and they'll say, this is what you need to do. You hate every minute of it. You hate to be inside, whatever it is. So you've got to also be involved enough to go, well, who am I, and what will I show up for? Doesn't mean I'm gonna love every second of it,

but it means this practice reflects who I am. And so, I think if you have some of those variables and understand consistency, if you only have 15 minutes that day, don't poo-poo that. Be like, this is what I got. This is good enough today. And so, it doesn't have to be really long, but you do have to have a nice strategy. And look at it like a story. Look at it like, what are these little buckets that I'm trying to check off? Okay, I'm trying to move in this way. I'm trying to walk enough or run a little or lift a little bit of weights or stretch and have that story. Don't just be doing one thing because you'll hammer yourself down. So for my cardio monsters out there that just go, go, go, that in the long run is not going to serve you. It's not even going

to serve like the way your skin looks. Like however, whichever language like, oh, you want your less wrinkles, lift weights, whatever it takes, but you need a friend too. I love that because it reminds me a lot of philosophy with food, right? It's not about perfection. And I think often, you know, we see this trend of people being like, from January 1st, I'm going to eat a vegan diet and I'm going to go to the gym every day at five. And I've paid like a $200 gym membership. And it's like you're setting yourself up to fail because life happens and you can't

be perfect. So being consistent is much more important. And it's the same with diet. Like if you can do it 80% of the time, then 20% of the time life happens and you just crack on. And I also love your, what you just said about find something you love, right? So it's the same thing with food. If you know that you really love eating in a way that reflects your cultural heritage,

then don't try to completely scrap that and move to a brand new type of cuisine that doesn't have any of those flavors for you, because it's going to be really hard to sustain it. So like, I love spinning because I love dancing. So for me, it's like the music. And I know that that's something that I love to do. And I do it regularly because, say, well, but on the other side, it's like, I also need to do the things I'm not so comfortable with.

And it's about the consistency of it. So keeping it up, whatever way works for you that you actually enjoy. Because when you move your body and you enjoy it, it's fun. And it's actually something that you look forward to. So it's interesting hearing you, Jonathan, ask like, how do you do it? And it's like, for me, I think when you don't do it,

you feel so rubbish. Because it does make you feel better when you do it, especially if you enjoy what you're doing. And it's the same with a diet, like we've seen with our members, when people change their diet and they start to enjoy the food and the flavors, and they feel better, they have better energy,

their mood is improved. And what you said about investing in training, so invest in someone to teach you how to get it right is so worthwhile. And I would love to pivot that to if you don't know how to cook, invest in learning how to cook. We're so resistant to it. It's like we'll pay for a trainer, we'll pay for the spin class, we'll pay for like French lessons.

But what about paying to learn how to cook? It's a vital skill. So these things, I think, also show commitment, if you're willing to put that resource to it. Whether it's your time, your money, your planning. It's like prioritizing it as something we have to do. And I would add one little thing and this is more in the performance side but this is for real life and for independent life. Even if it's farmers carry, we have to work on our grip strength. It's very important to be able to grip something.

So at first, even if you just walk around with light dumbbells, it doesn't mean hanging necessarily. I'm not even talking about pull-ups. I'm just talking about not losing the ability to grip things is really important. And grip strength is one of the biggest markers for frailty. It's one of the things we measure is actually grip strength is one of the biggest markers for frailty. It's one of the things we measure, is actually grip strength. And it's an important predictor of, I don't want to say death, but yeah. But death.

But death. I don't want to say death, but it's death. But it's a really good predictor, yeah. Which I find really depressing because I do work out, I say this often on the podcast, I do work out three times a week because I'm convinced that it's really important for my health and because the truth is I definitely do feel better afterwards. You know, I went to the gym this morning.

I find particularly when I'm traveling, it definitely makes me feel better. And even- Well, you sleep better too. And it definitely helps with the jet lag. Various scientists have told me this and I definitely feel the effect. There's two things I think about this.

Firstly, I love my food and I've eaten healthily for years now since beginning my Zoe personalized nutrition program. Whereas I've been doing the gym actually for longer than that and I still don't enjoy it while I'm doing it. I only enjoy it afterwards, but I haven't really got the point most of the time when I'm actually enjoying it while I'm doing it. Well, maybe it's about having someone to do it with, but also you call it the gym, which sounds like prison, right? So maybe take the show outside.

All you need is one kettlebell or two dumbbells, go to the park, put your music in, create some, write down some routine and see if breaking it up here and there, lunge across the park. I mean, the thing is, there's no rules on this stuff. I will remind people, too, there's something else that's very, very important, which is light. Sunlight. And it sounds so silly, right? You hear people going like, look at the sun. The way that all of the systems in our body are impacted so positively by sunlight.

And we've villainized sun. I know sometimes it's winter, there's not a lot of sun. So it's also encouraging people if they get that chance to be outside and have their eyes near the sun and be in the sun and have their skin be in the sun. These things also really are supportive of real health. I'm not talking about I look fit, I'm gym fit. That's sort of like child's play for me at this point. I think real fit is what I call the distance between my response time from the stimulus. How do I keep having that length of feeling good

and feeling calm and being outside is more important than people realize, especially because of our computers and phones. It's become even more important. So it also goes back to the value. If it's not important, if feeling good isn't important, what's keeping you from that? Do you know someone who struggles showing up consistently for their fitness? Maybe they think they're too busy to move their body every week.

Why not share this episode with them? Our experts could empower them to show up for their fitness, even when it's hard. I'm sure they'll thank you. And Gabby, what about when you fall off the wagon? And you might fall off the wagon because you broke your toes or because it's the holidays or you got sick or like this happens. And I think for a lot of people for whom this hasn't just been like an essential part of their life from when they were a teenager, it falls off and then it feels like it's sort of gone. And I think when people talk about stop start, often there's like something happened and then they didn't sort of get back. And so

they might've had a plan, but it got disrupted. What would you say to try and help minimize that or get people back onto a plan? Well, okay, I'm going to say that somebody told me this once a long time ago, and I think it's really an important reminder. They said to me that guilt, which is what keeps us from going, right? We beat ourselves up. They said that if guilt came from someplace, they said it would be from the devil because it doesn't really do anything and it just keeps you. So when you feel that guilt, just be like, okay, this is silly.

This isn't going to help me in any way. So in that moment, I think it's saying like, it hasn't been going the way I want for a myriad of reasons. What can I do today that will support me? And for some people, it might just be sitting for 10 minutes and breathing, taking some nice deep breaths in and out through their nose and saying, okay, I'm going to recommit. I'll start with walking. I'll take away my one worst thing I've been doing.

Maybe from the holiday, you picked up some new weird eating thing that you've reincorporated into your nutrition. Just take one thing or add one good thing, one thing bad out, one good thing in, and just keep the story going. It's kind of like parenting. I think if anyone's been a parent and they have children that are even a little bit older, there are times in parenting that it's not going well. Are you just going to be like, oh, you know what? This kid, it's a wash. Never mind. Forget it. No, you hang in there. The story is long. The arc on this story is so long. And just to believe in that, and that will make it. But we can't. Giving up is then you're just sort of giving up on

yourself. And beating yourself up is not really productive. So at some point, you have to put your, you know, big girl or boy pants on and say, I'm not a victim of my story. I can understand how I got here and why I haven't been doing it. What's my next strategy to ease my way back into a positive momentum? Federica, is it ever too late to make a meaningful change to your health? No, literally. So the evidence on this is overwhelming that you can have an intervention in people who are in their eighties with quite high frailty scores in a

nursing home and see them transform their health in three months. So like nutrition is extremely powerful in this. But we also know that movement. So it's interesting you mentioned walking outside, just a simple getting outside for 20 minutes, 20 minutes a day. That is not a long time. I think people often have this busyness thing. And obviously we are all very busy. If you might have a family career,

you might have other caring responsibilities, but on average adults spend like two hours and 20 minutes on social media. You can find 20 minutes, right? So 20 minutes to get outside has a transformative impact on mental health and on circadian rhythm regulation. So helping with that sleep pattern. So both with diet and with movement, even if it's as simple as a 20 minute walk outside, can have a transformative impact on health. And it's

never too late to do it. You can start at 40, start at 50, 60, 70, 80. My grandfather actually became the oldest marathon runner in Rome after a triple bypass. He had a heart attack and then had a triple bypass and decided to start doing fitness. Seriously, he was 81. 81. And then he was training the 50-year-olds

who'd had a heart attack in rehab. So like, it's never too late. And he was not an athlete. It's just, it's the mindset. Like if this is something you put your mind to and you're like, actually, I want to do this. And it's going to be, it's going to be something that helps me grow and helps me stay fit.

You know, it can, it could happen to anyone and it's never too late. And it's always worth doing. Even if it is 12 minutes, lifting some weights while you're watching TV, whatever it is, it's worth doing, even if it is 12 minutes, lifting some weights while you're watching TV, whatever it is, it's worth doing it. If you're just starting out again, let's say you looked up and you're whatever age and you go, I've been raising kids and working and just grinding it, give yourself 90 days

of suspended opinions about it. Create a strategy and just say, okay, I'm'm gonna reevaluate at the end of 90 days But for 90 days, I'm just gonna do my best if I blow it one day I'm gonna get back on the horse the next day because After that period of time, especially if you've been more sedentary or been you know, sort of here and there I think that's when we really have a chance to look in the rear view mirror and go, wow, I do feel better, I'm sleeping better, you know, I'm more calm, all my digestion is better, whatever the things are. So I also sometimes you just have to kind of have that period of time of faith.

And I think that's a really good point that you just brought up there. I think often people have the wrong goal. So sometimes people embark on like a health change or an exercise change with the goal of losing weight or being skinny or getting a six pack, right? And I'm not saying that these things aren't desirable, but is that really what you're going to measure your success against when we know that health and fitness and nutrition can help you feel better? Like is it more important to have visible abs? I saw some in Hale-Arya statistic today, which is like only 3% of people over 35

actually have visible abs or something like that. Like, is that your goal? Or are you going to reflect on your sleep, your mood, your satiety, your hunger, how calm you are, how resilient you feel? Because resilience is such an important concept. And when you encourage people to start measuring those changes, it completely changes the way you approach it, because it can be really difficult to struggle with your weight and to try and lose weight and to feel like you're quite never able to get to your ideal weight.

It's not a real way to measure progress. So switching that up and measuring progress in much more holistic ways that are actually relevant to health outcome for the long term, I think can really help with that. The motivation piece. Yeah, big time. I love that. And I think it's such a beautiful place to wrap up. I think that that's that is the point to go. I'd love to try and do a quick summary.

And we've covered a lot of different things. I'll try and see if I can pull it together. If I remember one thing out of this, Gabby, it's this story that if your friends are telling you that you're too old to do something, then replace your friends. Yeah, or tell them to stop. Just go, when you're in my presence.

It's like, if I have gossipy friends, I go, I don't want to hear it, like, not around me. Same thing. Save it. This idea that we're all athletes, like, we're meant to move. And then I love this thing you were hear it, like not around me, same thing. Save it. This idea that we're all athletes, like we're meant to move. And then I love this thing you were saying about like, even at the point when I have a lot of family obligations, recognize that, you know, I'm going to be really resentful if I just drain myself completely

and create no time for myself. And I won't even end up being like the best person over time. So like, even at the points when you're under a lot of pressure, you should still be protecting some time for yourself. And then we talked about like, even at the points when you're under a lot of pressure, you should still be protecting some time for yourself. And then we talked about like, so what could you do? And I think you started by saying like,

if you listen to this, you're saying like, I want to do something now, have a plan. So figure out like, I've got this much time. I know I need to sort of cover these sorts of things. How do I create that? On a calendar, like write it down. Write it down. So you're a bit more organized

than you admitted before I feel. I didn't say I wasn't organized. Oh, okay. Yeah. Now the calendar's coming. All right, now we're gonna start. Write it down, be clear what you wanna do. And then the thing I took away most of all was

you can't pull this off on your own. So find a friend, like literally someone you're going to do this with, who's going to motivate and you're gonna be able to do that. And the more the merrier, actually a couple. Because then I have plenty of friends I train with, I don't hang out with them. That's what we do together. We're training friends.

Yeah. So I love that idea. And you talked about some of the specific things. So you emphasized, like, make sure you're doing stuff that is weight bearing within this. And, you know, I think you said, like, if you're a woman and you might've been sort of brought up with like concerns about that, it's like actually, no, you really, you know, more than anybody should be thinking about weights. And we've talked about this on some

of the podcasts in the past about how important that is. You then came up with some brilliant ones I haven't heard before. So backward walking. So I love the idea that people around the world will now be backward walking in their park this weekend because you believe all of this stuff about like balance and like being off your sort of normal sort of straightforward plane is really powerful. But it'll make your knees and back and hips feel really good. Bare feet. And you shared this amazing study, Federica saying that it like reduced falls

in, you know, in a risk of falls in care homes by like 80%. So that's crazy. I thought the other thing I took away was this idea of like, if it feels really painful, how could you reimagine this to be something that's good? So you were saying like, it sounds to me like my gym is prison. So what about if you went outside and suddenly this thing could be fun? Play. We work out and it is hard, but you could also be like, how am I going to play today? No, I love that. And I think about, you know, as a, I mean, looking at my children, that

they do a lot of, you know, the exercise is fun and the younger they are, the more that's fun. And the older they get, the less it's like that. And I think I have definitely, don't really have that in my life, where it's sort of like it's a fun thing. And the thing I wanted to finish with though, is like, it's never too late. So I think the story of Federica of your grandfather, who says like 81 and did his first marathon after having, you know, had a heart attack previously,

is an amazing. So I'm not suggesting I think that everyone should do a marathon when they're 81, I assume. But the point is like, it's amazing what you can still achieve and you shouldn't feel like, if you weren't an amazing athlete from your teenage years, that none of this is accessible.

Like obviously people have different skills, but really you can do more than you think you can. Yeah, and if you're late to the game, your body's not worn out. Like I already have an artificial knee. See, there's some people, man, they got fresh joints and they're good to go. Oh, I love it. They can start. Why not? Oh, it's good. So I'm right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's some people, man, they got fresh joints and they're good to go.

Oh, I love it. They can start. Why not? Oh, that's good. So I'm right. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And apparently you were saying that being really tall has some disadvantage. I wouldn't be quite clear what they were. Absolutely. You used long levers move in a different way. There you go. Gaby, Federica, thank you so much for joining me. I really enjoyed that. I learned a lot and I hope you enjoyed it too. Thank you. Thanks Jonathan.

Bye bye. Now if you listen to the show regularly, you already believe that changing how you eat can transform your health. But you can only do so much with general advice from a weekly podcast. If you want to feel much better now and be on the path to live many more healthy years, you need something more. And that's why more than 100,000 members trust Zoe each day to help them make the smartest food choices. Combining our world-leading science with your Zoe test results, Zoe is your daily companion to better health for life. So how does it work? Zoe membership starts with at-home testing to understand your unique body. Then Zoe's app is your health coach, using weekly check-ins and daily guidance to help

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