48 Hours - A Brother's Mission

Episode Date: November 26, 2017

Correspondent Erin Moriarty tracks down the accused killer of a decorated military pilot in Brazil.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. He was an extraordinary aviator. What was it like to fly with Carl? He was amazing. He was actually a very good pilot, but he was a better person. What's your first memory of your dad?

He was in the military, so he was deployed. I just remember that I couldn't wait for him to get home. He joined the military when he was 18, so you know pretty much his adult life he was in the military. He was your big brother? He was my best friend. Even after you were divorced? Oh yeah. Do you remember when you first met Claudia? I had an open house here for my graduation, and my dad brought her. They were already planning to get married. I didn't even know he had a girlfriend.

You have a Brazilian woman who was living in the U.S., getting married there, was living in a fairy tale. What drew him to Claudia? Do you know? No, that's one of the biggest mysteries. I never knew. And how surprised were you when he announced he was going to go to Vegas and marry Claudia? I was shocked. I couldn't believe it.

I remember telling him, Carl, why? What is your hurry? I mean, why do it? At first, everything seemed fine. But as the relationship went on, then it started to become rocky. When I came in that day to fly, I said, hey, have you talked to Carl? No, no one's heard from him,

which was very, very out of character. They came here to his house and found him. He'd been dead for several days. My oldest brother called and told me. What did he say? He just said, Carl's dead. As soon as he said, Carl's dead, I already know who did it. I knew it was her. She told us a story about how Brazil,

that basically they just don't extradite. She knew all she had to do was not get caught until she got to Brazil and she was home free. You're describing a cold-blooded... Premeditated killer. She knew all she had to do was not get caught until she got to Brazil and she was home free. You're describing a cold-blooded... Premeditated killer. Absolutely. We knew it wasn't going to be easy. I don't think we thought it was going to take more than 10 years.

The evidence is so clear. Why is it taking so long? We're thinking about going to Brazil and track her down. Do you want to go to Brazil? We're thinking about going to Brazil. And track her down. Do you want to go to Brazil? I would love to go to Brazil. I'll do whatever it takes to get to justice for my brother. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing The Best Idea Yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy

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the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still a virgin. It just happens to all of us.

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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Ask anyone who knew Carl Herrig, and they will tell you he was a hero. The way I've heard him described is fearless. Is that true? Is it? Yeah. Carl was one of those all-American military pilots, the real-life hero revered by Hollywood

filmmakers. He looks like a movie star, doesn't he? Yes. He flew C-130 cargo planes on nearly 200 treacherous combat missions to Iraq and Afghanistan. But this fearless pilot was killed here in his own home. Shot twice in the back and then again in the head at close range. He was found here.

There was a big blood stain here. A decade later, his brother Paul and father Ed can't even talk about their loss without fighting back tears. I don't want to be seen on camera. Why not? Because I'm falling apart. Carl's daughter Eva can't believe her family is still fighting for justice. I mean did you ever think it would take so long? No. Every time I think about how long it's been I'm shocked. One of the last people to see Carl alive was his first wife Rhonda. They had two

children together, Eva and Brent. He called to check on the kids and we'd end up on the phone for as long as they would let him stay on when he was in Iraq. Rhonda says that by the time she realized she had made a mistake by divorcing Carl, he had moved on. He'd had about three or four dates a week with different girls for months. Carl's close friend, Gary Dodge. You know, every time we would do something socially,

he would be with somebody different. Then came a woman named Carla Del Castillo, who Paul says his brother fell for hard. So there's Carla. Carla was really nice. She was really nice. But Carla wanted children, and Carl just wasn't sure he wanted more. He would later tell his friends he deeply regretted that decision, that Carla was the one who got away.

After they had split, I think he was still searching for that companionship. I was married, and Chris was getting married, Casey was getting married, John was getting married. and Chris was getting married, Casey was getting married, John was getting married. So in 2005, when Carl met a woman who looked a lot like Carla, he moved quickly, says Chris Swegan. He had said to me that I lost the last one, I got to make sure that I don't lose this one as well. Claudius O'Brawl was a Brazilian accountant and English teacher who visited New York City in 1989.

Six months later, she met and married a high-profile New York doctor and stayed. She had been divorced for five years when she met Carl on a dating website in 2005. How would you describe Claudia? She was nice enough to me, you know, especially at first. She was a little different, but you kind of just tack that up to somebody coming from a different country. About six months later, Claudia moved from New York to Newton Falls, Ohio, and the couple jetted off to Las Vegas to get married. Casey Keebler says that right from the start, there was trouble in paradise. He had gotten away a few minutes to get a phone call off to me and said, I don't know

if I'm doing the right thing, and I said, don't. Run away. She started acting… Paul says it was the women in the Herrig family who first sensed a problem. She seemed like she was friendly to the males more, and the females in the family basically said something's wrong. Something just doesn't seem right with her. I think she wanted Carl for herself. She didn't want that type of relationship with our wives or our girlfriends.

She wanted Carl. At the time, Carl was a pilot for Southwest Airlines and was still flying in the Air Force Reserve. Claudia was alone a lot and spent much of that time shopping. The basement is completely full. I just, it was like... With clothing? Just clothes and clothes and clothes and clothes. And expensive clothing? Yeah, there was, she had bought racks to keep them all on. Claudia also insisted that she was afraid to be alone in the house and wanted a gun for protection. Paul thought it was crazy.

She had lived in New York City, and Newton Falls crime rate is substantially less than New York City's crime rate. So I just wasn't buying the story. Claudia seemed deeply unhappy and unsettled, but no one could have ever anticipated where it would lead. There was zero reason to take it to that extreme. And only a monster could do something like that.

This is a.357 Magnum. This is a heavy gun, and it's a big gun. Did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free, with a 48-hour plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Hotshot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own.

She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access,

I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, and listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free By late 2006, it was clear that Carl Herrig's nearly two-year marriage to Claudia was coming apart, according to his brother Paul. He started talking to me about, I just don't want to be in this anymore. She's acting strange, because he could see that she was basically dragging him down. But Claudia didn't want the marriage to end, and Carl couldn't seem to walk away. He would say he was leaving, but then he'd find a reason to stay.

And then he was leaving and then find a reason to stay. As Carl became more resolute, Claudia's behavior became more erratic. This is Claudia. In early 2007, she summoned the Herrig family to what she called an emergency meeting to complain about the couple's marriage. He wanted her to help out with the house cleaning and the cooking, like a 50-50 split. And that just isn't how it was. And we were like, well, that's just part of being an adult. That's just what you do. And Carl was just sitting there, just shaking his head in disbelief. Then, just a month before Carl was killed, Claudia called her stepdaughter.

She said, Eva, I'm just calling to tell you goodbye. And I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean? She's like, that's all. Just goodbye. Eva would learn that soon after they spoke, Claudia was in a single-car accident. According to court records, she was driving under the influence. Was she telling you that she was going to take her life? That's what I could guess now. What appeared to be a suicide attempt landed Claudia in a psychiatric ward and caused Carl to rush to her side again,

says his longtime friend, Chris Wiegand. When the suicide thing happened, it was, I think, her attempt to try to get him to stay. All these things are her attempt to try to get him to stay. But this time, it didn't work. In early March, Carl made plans to move out, renting a small place nearby so Claudia could have their house. He wasn't going to leave her high and dry. I mean, he tried to help her.

On March 10th, Carl, on assignment for Southwest Airlines, had a layover in North Carolina and spent the next day with his ex-wife and kids, who are now grown. But before flying home to Ohio, Carl confided in Rhonda that his marriage to Claudia was over. And he says, I think I'm leaving when I get back. It's just not going to work. I said, I'm really sorry to hear that. Carl told Claudia he planned to move into his new place on March 12th, the next day. Did he seem sad about it? Yeah, he did.

I said, make sure you call me when you get home. Okay. I will. And he didn't this time. He didn't. I was scared. And I don't this time. He didn't. I was scared, and I don't know why. Back in Newton Falls, Claudia was unraveling.

In the early morning hours of March 12th, she emailed a letter to a friend, but addressed to Carl. She wrote, You made me promises that no matter what, there would be no divorce in this relationship. I'm a good woman, Carl. Do not do me wrong, please. It was more of a plea to Carl to please not leave. Let's give our marriage another chance. Sweegan says Claudia also sent him a copy of that letter. Do you think that Carl ever got a chance to read this letter?

If I had to guess, I would probably say yes. Yeah, that's, I would think so. If he did, he didn't tell anyone. In fact, Carl disappeared on March 12th. Two days later, he was scheduled to be at the military base for reserve duty. When he didn't show up for a flight, his friends began to worry. That would never happen. Has he ever missed a flight? No. I don't think so. No. He would, he wouldn't have because that's, that's a big deal. When you don't show up,

that's a big deal. When Gary Dodge couldn't reach Carl the next morning, he left a concerned voicemail. Hey look, I don't know where you're at, but if I haven't heard from you in the next hour, I'm calling the police. And I didn't hear from him. So he called the police and arranged for Carl's father to let them inside when no one came to the door. At that point, I'm on the phone with the police officer, and I heard his dad scream. So that's when I knew that, uh-oh, something's definitely wrong. What went through your mind?

Go to the next. Yeah, that was tough. Claudia had vanished. She quickly became the prime suspect. I just knew it had to be her because not a single person ever said anything bad about him. It appears that he was sitting on the steps tying his shoes trying to leave. She apparently went upstairs and got a weapon that he didn't know about and stood at the top of the stairs and shot him from there. Two bullets hit his back and one was fired into his head.

You think she came down the steps and shot him again? Yeah, point blank range, right in the head. Execution style, right in the back of the head. Retracing Claudia's steps, investigators soon learned that two days before the shooting, she went to this gun shop and bought a.357 Magnum, similar to this one. bought a.357 Magnum, similar to this one. And like Claudia did that day, we took the.357 to a shooting range to practice and got help from the same gun expert, Richard Slider.

Don't yank, don't jerk, just slowly squeeze the trigger. Nice job. Wow. Slider remembers Claudia clearly. She never once acted like she needed my, you know, input. Pretty much had it down. Did she explain why she needed a gun this size? Just mainly for she wanted, you know, stopping power is what she wanted.

When you pick up something like this, you ain't messing around. It's time to get serious. Where police later found the gun shocked even hardened investigators. The pistol that she used to shoot my brother was found in this closet. There was a string attached to the trigger and to the door so that whoever opened the door, the gun would go off and shoot them. Fortunately, the gun didn't fire. Why would anybody set up that booby trap with a.357 in the closet?

It's hard saying what went through her mind. You don't know if she thought that would give her more time or if she was just an evil person. Investigators believe Claudia covered her dead husband's body with a plastic tarp. She then drove his car to Pittsburgh, some 80 miles away. Then she used his airline pass to fly free to New York City and then to Sao Paulo, Brazil. Carl's friends believe it was all part of a diabolical plot.

And she had already drained the bank account, sent the money, you know, to Brazil. This is a well-thought-out, well-planned execution that had been in the works for at least four or five months, no doubt in my mind. By the time Carl's body was discovered three days later, Claudia was long gone. The purchase of a.357 Magnum revolver.

The sudden flight to Brazil on the day Carl Herrig was shot to death in his home. The evidence against his wife, Claudia, was overwhelming. And on April 12, 2007, a month after his death, Claudia Herrig was charged with aggravated murder and a warrant issued for her arrest. She needs to be found guilty in a U.S. court and then spend her remaining days in prison. But will Claudia Herrig ever go on trial? Remember, as she once mentioned to the family, Brazil refuses to extradite Brazilian citizens. At the time, it just seemed like just a story about, you know, her home country. Brazil refuses to extradite Brazilian citizens.

At the time, it just seemed like just a story about, you know, her home country. It's written in the Constitution. No Brazilian-born citizen can be extradited, even if the person is a wanted criminal in another country. So she was obviously aware of it. From the beginning, the Herrigs felt like they were hitting a wall with their own government. In my opinion, the State Department didn't really take much of an interest. They kept telling us at the beginning, you know, basically she's a Brazilian citizen and there's nothing you can do.

Who is this? That's Carl. With this sitting here, you can't forget this case. This is here every time you walk in the office. No, it's a pending case. But Trumbull County Prosecuting Attorney Dennis Watkins was determined not to let Carl's wife get away with murder. We are not going to give in. We will never give in.

And immediately after Carl's death, Watkins began the task of trying to get Claudia back to the states for trial, writing letters by the dozens to the State Department, the Justice Department, through two presidential administrations to little avail. How many emails do you estimate that you have sent on this case? It's over 500. It is frustrating because I don't have any control. The state of Ohio, under the Constitution of the United States, is not a party to international extradition.

LISA DESJARDINS Brazil offered to try Claudia under their justice system, but Watkins rejected that idea. JOHN WALKENS This case is going to be tried in the United States of America. The crime was committed here. All the witnesses are here. The prosecution is here. She's the one that left. She's the one that should come back. Watkins turned to Capitol Hill when Carl's friend and fellow pilot John Bocherry won a congressional seat in 2008. I moved with a sense of urgency once I got to Washington to try and get this done.

Bocherry joined forces with another Ohio Congressman, Tim Ryan. But I'm offering this amendment on behalf of Major Carl Herrig. Pushing legislation to punish Brazil for harboring a fugitive. But still, no movement. I mean, did you ever think it would take so long? No. No. No. But with murder charges pending in Ohio and the defendant 4,400 miles away in Brazil, it's a complicated legal case.

There was only one way to get answers. And so we came here to Brazil to track down Claudia to find out what has she been doing these past 10 years. And most important, where is Claudia now? Nobody in Ohio is quite sure what happened to Claudia after she fled to Brazil the day her husband was shot, back in March 2007. All right, so let's look and see if there's any kind of directory. We learned that Claudia had opened her own accounting business. We're with CBS News.

Would anyone want to talk a little bit about Claudia, who she is as a person? No, they said the ideal thing would be to talk to her lawyers. Did she live close to here? We also learned that Claudia had a new boyfriend, a taxi driver named Daniel Barbosa. He's younger than she is. Yeah. Whom she later married. And they had been living together in this neighborhood.

married and they had been living together in this neighborhood. Clearly, the woman who was a fugitive from justice in the U.S. is not living like one here in Brazil. She had that accounting firm, the new man in her life, and she's living in this very comfortable middle-class neighborhood. It looked like she was home free. But everything was about to change. Just as Claudia settled into her new life, her case took a dramatic turn. It turned out that when Claudia had become an American citizen in 1999, she pledged a standard oath saying, I renounce all allegiance to any foreign state or sovereignty of which I've been a citizen. And she even signed a document referring to country of former nationality, Brazil.

Prosecutor Watkins had always argued she could no longer be protected by Brazilian law. protected by Brazilian law. Claudia Herrig came to this country in 1989, became a naturalized American citizen in 1999. That changed her status under Brazilian law. In 2013, six years after Carl Herrig was murdered, the Brazilian authorities agreed. The Ministry of Justice stripped Claudia of her citizenship, which meant she could be extradited to the U.S.

to stand trial for the murder of her husband. It's a big story here? It's a big story. Daniel Majub, a prominent attorney in Brazil and an expert in Brazilian extradition law says it was a groundbreaking case. It's a very controversial case. It's the first time in Brazilian history of the dress to writing a Brazilian national. You know, she chose to become an American.

Automatically, she lost her Brazilian nationality. Claudia fought the unprecedented ruling through the courts and for three more years kept living her life of freedom as the case worked its way through the complicated Brazilian justice system. By law, the case went all the way to the top, the Supreme Court of Brazil. And in April 2016, that court also ruled against Claudia. But this time, she was arrested and sent to prison. Three months later, Claudia, who put on weight and drastically changed her appearance, went before the court in prison clothing, pleading to keep her Brazilian citizenship. It didn't work.

Again, the court ruled against her. But in the Brazilian system of justice, it's never really over. She can continue to appeal. And even if there's a final court ruling against Claudia, the president would have to issue an order to put her on a plane back to the U.S. Claudia has now been in prison for a year and a half, and the Herrigs want some answers. Because no one knows how long it will take or if Claudia will ever be extradited at all. I would love to go to Brazil.

You just let me know when, and I'll be there. Carl's brother Paul, frustrated by the slow pace of justice, agreed to join our investigation, and we flew him to Brazil. It's going to be harder for them to ignore me when we're face to face. Are you excited a bit? Why?

I'm just eager to find out some answers to some questions that I've had for over 10 years. In Brazil, Paul Herrig can finally get a glimpse into the life Claudia led for nine years until her arrest. Her business, her new husband, her middle class life. It makes me mad to know that she was living such a comfortable life. And, you know, my brother's dead. That's hard, isn't it?

Yeah. You're carrying him with you even here to Brazil? Yeah. Paul wants answers. He hopes to meet with American officials in Brazil to learn more about their effort to get Claudia back to Ohio, which means a stop at the American Embassy in Brasilia. I mean, Paul, up to now, has anyone from the State Department talked to you?

They have. Specifics? On and off. At the beginning, I wasn't getting anything. It was basically getting a block wall thrown up in front of me. And then for a little while, they talked to me, and that's basically went away when we sought information from US officials about the case we were stonewalled Claudia Herrick is an American citizen we were told with a right to privacy and as we were speaking with Paul, Hey, Mark. Embassy spokesman Mark Pinnell came out and made that position quite clear. Is there any chance that you can talk just a little bit to Carl Herrig's brother

and just kind of give him an update? No. Why not? Because you and I had discussed this. We, anytime we have a request to speak with U.S. media, we are required to get clearance from Washington. We do not have that clearance. Pinal declined to speak to us, or even to Paul Herrig, and asked us to turn off the camera. But he promised to do his best to get some information for Paul.

I was hoping I'd get to speak to somebody, but not totally surprised that they didn't speak to me. But disappointed. I can understand why they may not want to talk with us on the record, but didn't you think they might give you something? I thought they might, especially since I traveled all the way to Brazil. As Paul seeks information, As Paul seeks information, Claudia is in this prison. While her lawyers fight her extradition, she hoped to gain public sympathy by speaking with Brazilian reporters like Renata Ferandes. How was she? Was she scared, nervous, angry? Very scared, of course. She is in jail.

LYNN FRIEDMAN, Last year, Claudia, in her only television interview, refused to show her face or answer questions about Carl's murder. But that didn't stop Renata from asking. Did you ask whether she actually shot him? Yes. LYNN FRIEDMAN, And what did she say? She didn't answer this question. Did she deny it? Did she say, I didn't do it?

She denied it. She denied it. Claudia claimed Carl had been emotionally abusive and hinted at the defense she might use at trial. She told wild stories about how Carl treated her. He treated me like a prostitute, she said. I wasn't treated like a wife. I wasn't given a right to be a mother. He was treating her as a prostitute.

She got pregnant, and she was obliged to have an abortion. And it happened three times, according to her. And I asked her, why didn't you get divorced of this man? Why didn't she leave him? Of course. But Carl's ex-wife Rhonda says Claudia's stories are absurd. Do you believe in any way that Carl could have been emotionally abusive to Claudia? It doesn't sound like the Carl that I know.

Carl was very loyal, very loving. He was kind. And if Carl was abusive, why didn't Claudia say that during the family emergency meeting she called back in 2007? Paul believes Claudia has now made up the stories to justify murder. You know, you're just hearing one side of this. Only one version of this story. Yes, because I just interviewed her. Why do you think she did the

interview? Why? I think she wanted to caught Brazil's attention about her case. Claudia hoped the interview would convince Brazilians that she should be kept there. Does she want to be tried here? Tried for murder here? Sure. Yes, she will. But there were details about the murder that Renata did not know. I showed her a picture of the type of powerful gun used to shoot him. Yes, it's terrible. I think if she's guilty, she has to pay for it. Paul, observing our conversation, patiently waits to ask questions of his own. So, Paul, do you have a question or two that you want?

Did she produce any documentation saying that she actually had three abortions or one abortion? Do you understand what Paul's question is? I know. I think it's very strange. It's a very strange story. So you have some doubts about the story she told? Yeah, sure. Of course. Of course. Paul had one more question for Renata. Do you get the feeling that she thought she was going to get away with it and just continue to live here free? I don't know.

Maybe yes. I don't know. Thank you. Okay, thank you. There are so many questions. We arranged a meeting between Paul and the Brazilian lawyer Daniel Majud, who has studied the case. This is Paul Herrick.

Nice to meet you. He has some questions for you. So she's done with the appeals? No, she's not done with the case. This is Paul Herrick. Nice to meet you. He has some questions for you. So she's done with the appeals? No, she's not done with the appeals. There are other appeals that can be filed by her defense. So this could go on for quite some time? Definitely, unfortunately. That's kind of hard to take, because we really

thought we were closing in on the end. Yeah, Brazil is a young democracy. We're coping with many challenges, many controversial cases. This is one of the controversial cases we're dealing with. That's not an excuse, but it's a reality, unfortunately. Is there anything the U.S. Embassy can do to push this along? The Embassy is, from what I've heard and from what I've researched,

the Embassy is working very hard and thoroughly. There's just one more thing Paul hopes to do while in Brazil. He wants to go to the prison and try to see Claudia face to face. There's a chance that you might see the woman that you believe killed your brother today. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to it? chance that you might see the woman that you believe killed your brother today yeah i'm looking forward to it looking forward to it just i want to see her verify where she's at and see the living conditions that she's in and as we were on our way that morning paul told me about a very welcome surprise he got the night before. This is terrific.

Yeah, it's great. Oh my God, that's great. Yeah. So how are you feeling this morning? Oh, I'm doing really well. As we head to the prison where accused killer Claudia Herrig has been held for the past year, Paul Herrig gave us some surprising news. And this morning I checked my emails. The U.S. Embassy officials will meet with him after all. And they're willing to meet with me

today. This is terrific. Yeah, it's great. So in fact, it looks like, Paul, you're shaking some trees. It looks that way. And lighting some fires just like you hoped. Yeah. Oh, my God, that's great. Yeah. The meeting was set for the afternoon. I'm not sure what they're going to be willing to talk to me about. Are you planning on telling the State Department, look, push, push for this, we need this? Oh, I've been telling them that. I'm just going to reinforce that.

but first paul hopes to confront claudia here in the prison where she awaits extradition the prison director de salita perera marchines has agreed to talk about claudia and her life here thank you so much i'm with our translator, Renata Matarazzo. And what we learned is surprising, even shocking. For one thing, Claudia is allowed regular, intimate visits with her husband. How often does he come visit her? Does she know? And how often does he come visit her? Weekly. Convicted prisoners aren't confined to cells all day.

Many are allowed out on work release programs. Even if she were convicted of something like murder, she would be allowed out during the day to work? Exactly. Brazilian law allows it. Exactly. The Brazilian law allows it. And prison sentences here are far less restrictive than in the U.S. Even for crimes like murder, inmates face a maximum of 30 years,

and they can reduce their prison time by working or even studying. It's hard to believe. It's all beginning to add up to Paul. It makes a lot more sense why she would like to stay here, because she's trying to reduce her time in prison. And how do you feel about that? It would not be fair, and that definitely would not be justice.

And the director had one more shocker for us, a rumor running through the prison. Claudia is that worried about going back to the United States that other inmates think she might kill someone rather than go back to the United States, she'd kill someone here? Exactly. That's right. Inmates are concerned that Claudia would do anything to avoid being sent back, even murder,

which is why Claudia is being held in a cell by herself. Paul didn't get what he really hoped for, a chance to see and confront Claudia. The director said that Claudia refused to see us. Paul resigned to the reality of not seeing Claudia, headed to the U.S. Embassy for his long-hoped-for meeting with officials there, determined to lobby for action. It was a great visit. It was a lot more than what I expected. Extremely positive.

What basically have you learned that you didn't know before you came here? I promised them that I wouldn't talk specifics with anybody. Okay. We came to an agreement. But I can tell you that they were very receptive and positive. It was an opportunity to clear the air on some old issues, and the future looks extremely positive and cooperative. extremely positive and cooperative.

As Paul's journey ends, he heads home more determined than ever to see his brother's accused killer back in Ohio. I learned so much about the legal system here, which gives me more reason not to want to have Claudia prosecuted here. So it was well worth it. We'll be ready for the trial when it gets here. For the first time in a decade, there's new hope. Carl Herrig's family and friends believe they may be getting closer to a trial and to getting the answer to the question that haunts them. Why?

Now, this was a vindictive thing. For now, the most his friends can do is speculate. Carl was leaving her, and she didn't like that fact. She wanted the relationship to end on her terms, not on his terms. And she wanted to have that control. She wanted to make the statement that you're not going to leave me. I'm going to do this. AMY GOODMAN I mean, are we talking about just like the classic, if I can't have you, nobody else can have you?

PAUL WAKINS Absolutely, yes. I got all the materials that you sent me. AMY GOODMAN Since Paul returned from Brazil, prosecutor Dennis Watkins has spoken to American officials, and he believes Paul's trip did make a difference. DENNIS WATKINS, Paul's journey to Brazil put a face on the victim's family. And three weeks after Paul got home, another piece of good news from Brazil. The Supreme Court officially closed the case. Claudia can be extradited to the U.S. There's only one step left now.

The Brazilian president has to issue the order to put Claudia on a plane. What are your thoughts that now there's just one person who has to make this decision? Hopeful, very hopeful and optimistic. And I'm hoping somebody from our government contacts their government to let them know that we'd like to speed this along. And Watkins hopes that he'll see a trial in this courtroom within a year. that he'll see a trial in this courtroom within a year. I'm cautiously optimistic. I've been saying that for years. It is time to end this deal.

More than 10 years have passed, and for those who love Carl Herrig, he remains a bigger-than-life personality. He was funny, he was kind, he was considerate. There's nothing that can be said or done that's ever going to bring him back. Nothing but good memories. A man with a courageous spirit, a contagious smile,

and a drive that inspired the people around him to soar. And I'm really, really just reminded of our last flight, that last encounter, where we're flying into a setting sun, and he said, when I take my last flight into the setting sun and I look back over my shoulder, I hope the people who knew me were happy they did. And we are. There is no timetable for the President of Brazil to rule on Claudia Sobral's extradition. Claudia Sobral will remain in jail until she is extradited, or tried for Carl Herrig's murder in Brazil.