48 Hours - Bryan Kohberger and The Idaho Student Murders

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Four college students are found stabbed to death in their home. Police say the suspect had studied the criminal mind. Peter Van Sant reports. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Moscow will forever be known as the scene of one of the most tragic crimes in American history. There's still sort of a darkness whenever you talk to people. It will be ever part of the university's history and the town's history.

There are four very, very important names in this case. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Cronodal, and Ethan Chapin. And if you're going to remember any names from this case, I ask that it be all four. My name is Olivia Gonsalvesves and Kaylee was my little sister. Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just like, how can you be out there playing? My daughter's dead. You know, Kaylee Gonsalves is gone. Stop everything. Everybody in the whole world, stop. And everything just keeps going. My sister, Zanna Kernodle,

is one of the happiest, funniest people I've ever met. And I had the awesome privilege of growing up with her, and I still have a hard time coming to terms with the facts that it did happen. Brian Koberger is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students in the pre-dawn hours on November 13, 2022. The murder weapon, which was a knife, has never been found. This is a type of survival knife. Brian Koberger did not make his own plea.

The judge entered a plea for him of not guilty. Maximum penalties, life in prison, or the death penalty. Due to the nature of the crimes, the state of Idaho is seeking the death penalty. He was there to kill. He came in with a kit. I believe he had a kill kit. And you believe that everything right down

to the implement of destruction, this large marine knife, that was all planned? All planned. It was inhumane. You wouldn't do these type of things to any living creature, let alone an innocent human being. The star piece of evidence in the prosecution's case is the DNA that was found on the knife sheath that was left at the crime scene.

But there's so much other evidence that's also pointing towards nobody else that we're aware of. How was Brian Koberger's car spotted leaving the scene? Why was his cell phone seen there 12 times, including the morning after the offense? The prosecution would like everyone to believe that it's an open and shut case. But I think the facts they have make the case more open than open and shut. more open than open and shut. According to the defense, there is no connection whatsoever between Brian Koberger and the victims.

And if there is no connection, then there is no motive. And if there is no motive, then it becomes very hard to make the case that he is the killer. And this is a graduate student, not a trained assassin. It's more so about putting these pieces together is a killer. And this is a graduate student, not a trained assassin. It's more so about putting these pieces together, because I know what the puzzle looks like at the end. I have the box in front of me, but I'm missing so many pieces.

How did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now? Where did this come from peter van sant reports the night of the idaho student murders it was not the news steve andy Gonsalves wanted to hear. In August of 2023, just six weeks before the murder trial of Brian Koberger was set to begin, he waved his right to a speedy trial. Should we go to the beginning? Absolutely.

They would have to wait indefinitely for their day in court. I was really hoping that we could get this show on the road because the not knowing, it just, it's agony. It's agony. Steve and Christy, the parents of Kaylee, haven't left anything to chance. After the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement, quote, to preserve the right to a fair trial,

they drilled down on their own investigation and are now sharing what they believe that investigation found. Steve says he believes transparency is the best path to justice. We're not going to just sit back and cross our fingers and pray that we're going to get justice. It has been a long and painful journey for the families of Kaylee Gonsalves, Maddie Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin,

the four University of Idaho students who were savagely murdered by a knife-wielding assailant in the wee hours of November 13, 2022, as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house on King Road. Do you ever dream of your sister? Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. There's times where I prayed and asked God to see her another time, and I did, and it just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's okay. Jasmine Kernodle, who is speaking for the first time, was a senior at Washington State University

and lived only 15 minutes away from her younger sister, Zanna. Often mistaken as twins growing up, she says they were best friends. She was always fun. She was uplifting. She took any bad situation and turned it into a good one. Jeff, what did you love most about your daughter? Everything. She cared about people. She was a people person. She cared about her friends just as much as like her family. For the first time in her life, Zanna had fallen in love with fellow student Ethan Chapin, a triplet who loved his siblings, boats, and working on a tulip farm.

The sweetest kid ever. They were just two happy people, and just seeing the videos and photos of them, you can just tell how happy they are. They were just amazing together. Sadly, they will now forever be linked in death. On Sunday morning, November 13th, Zanna's friends started calling Jasmine, saying something bad had happened on King Road.

Jasmine rushed over to Zanna's house. And while you're driving that eight, nine miles over to the house, are you trying to reach your sister then? Mm-hmm. How many times did you call her? A lot. I called her a lot. Called Ethan a lot. Her next call was to her father. Jeffrey had been visiting Jasmine for Dad's weekend and was on his way home.

So you answer the phone. What do you hear? I hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get back to Moscow and meet me at Zanna's house. And, you know, my heart drops. I instantly race back down there. The house was cordoned off and swarming with investigators. As soon as Jeffrey said he was Zanna's father, he and Jasmine

were escorted to the Moscow Police Department. And Jasmine, what does the officer say to you and your father? I don't remember exactly. Just that four people passed away and that one was Anna.

The worst day of your life, just your worst nightmare. It just happened, you know? What do you do? You can't do a damn thing. 100 miles away, the Gonsalves family also had been getting frantic calls saying something bad had happened to their daughter Kaylee But no one knew what I just kept saying, what do I do? What do we do? What do we do?

Finally, at around 4 in the afternoon, a deputy appeared at their door And we said, what's going on? I confirmed your daughter's died. She's passed away. And he said there were four victims. And I said, four? And he said, yes, ma'am. I said, can you tell us if one of the victims was Maddie Mogan? And he said, yes, ma'am.

Maddie Mogan, Kaylee's best friend from childhood. Give us a sense of just how close Kaylee and Maddie were in life. I think that they had a very amazing relationship. The epitome of true best friends from very early. I mean, they were sisters through and through. They were completely inseparable. As soon as the news hit, Olivia, the eldest of the five Gonsalves children, and her parents went into detective mode. We had zero details. We just knew they were gone. Olivia got into her sister's call log

and frantically started cold calling recent numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaylee had been at the Corner Club bar around 1.07 a.m. and later texted a rideshare driver, who Olivia managed to track down. The rideshare driver said around 1.45, Kaylee had texted him requesting a ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck, to take her back home to 1122 King. And she had with her another female. Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case. The rideshare driver told her about a camera mounted on the Grub Truck. driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck.

So I was able to look it up and find Kaylee on the video and I saw the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaylee and Maddie were together. They got into the car to go home together and alone. The driver told her the exact

time Kaylee and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road. 1.56 a.m. A timeline, she says, she confirmed before the police. I immediately took it to the police officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the rideshare driver's name. Olivia says Kaylee made a call to her boyfriend at 2.56 a.m., but he didn't answer. The Gonsalveses believe Kaylee fell asleep shortly after. According to the police affidavit,

Kaylee and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4 and 4.25 a.m. Just as they had done since they were little girls, they were sleeping in the same bed. Those two best friends since little girls, I don't think there's anything more terrifying than what they went through. I really don't. The killer took four lives in a matter of minutes. But he left behind two surviving roommates, one of whom would provide a key description of the intruder. He was dressed in black, muscular build, and very bushy eyebrows. It was 1989 in Titusville, Florida. Kim Halleck said she and her ex-boyfriend Chip Flynn were kidnapped and attacked at gunpoint. Kim fled the scene, but Chip didn't make it out alive.

Did you kill Chip Flynn? No, ma'am. Crosley Green has lived more than half his life behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit. I'm Erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most, involving an eyewitness account that doesn't quite make sense. A sister testifying against a brother. They always say lies, you can't remember lies. A lack of physical evidence.

against a brother. They always say lies. You can't remember lies. A lack of physical evidence and questions about whether Crosley Green was accused, arrested, and convicted because he's black. Just because a white female says a black man has committed a crime, we take that as gospel. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the Trouble Case Against Crosley Green, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island.

It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn. And it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still a virgin. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn.

When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+.

Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. If there is one picture that speaks to the Idaho student murders, it is this. Six smiling college students, blissfully unaware of the carnage to come. It's staged in a way that is almost, in a strange way, ominously predicting. Investigative journalist Howard Bloom has written extensively on the student murders for Graydon Carter's online magazine, Airmail. He is now writing a book on the case. On the ends of the picture are the two survivors.

In the middle are the victims, and they're huddled together. Kaylee, with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders, friends for life. Ethan, with his arm around Zanna, young love in full bloom. A moment that should have been a memory of their idyllic college years Ethan with his arm around Zanna, young love in full bloom. A moment that should have been a memory of their idyllic college years would eternally be a reminder of the gruesome murders that put them in their graves. What makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in this moment.

They'll never be able to leave this moment. Hours after this photo was taken, the four friends would be murdered. Their deaths so violent, even the house seemed to be bleeding. There was literally blood oozing out from the home. You could see it on the exterior walls. exterior walls. CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a former FBI agent and professor of criminology at the University of South Florida. That's how bloody and gruesome the crime scene is. According to the affidavit, which outlines law enforcement's investigation, the bodies of Zanna and Ethan, who was sleeping over, were found in or near her bedroom on the second floor.

The bodies of Kaylee and Maddie were on the third floor, in the same single bed in Maddie's room. How did your daughter die in that house? What do you know? We know the autopsy. We know the means of what is officially how she died. She was assaulted and stabbed. Several, several times. Her death certificate is the ugliest, disgustingest piece of paper that you will ever see in your life. And every line is a horror show.

Every line, because there's causes of death and then there's contributions to death. Christy and Steve spoke to coroner Kathy Mabbitt before the gag order was issued, and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in the bed. The bed was up against the wall. The headboard was touching the wall, and the left side of the bed was touching the wall. And we believe that Maddie was on the outside and Kaylee was on the inside. According to Coroner Mabbitt, the killer's first victim was Maddie, says Steve.

And then from Maddie, he moved on to your daughter. You believe she had awakened at that point? Yes. Yeah, there's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation. The way the bed was set up is what... She was trapped. She was trapped. We know from the affidavit that Koberger's cell phone pinged in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murders.

Steve says before the gag order, one of the lead investigators told him they believe Koberger had been scouting out the house. You believe these visits were like, he was like on an intelligence mission, a scouting mission, looking at lifestyle patterns when they came and went, who came to the house. He had to know when people were coming, people were going. It makes the Gonsalves' wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house. I think that he at least had opened that door, went in, tested the waters, looked around. Steve says the coroner told him the killer's rampage started on the third floor,

where both Maddie and Kaylee had their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends together in the same bed. I do think that his plan went awry. I do think that, you know, he intended to kill one and killed four. Brianna Fox also believes Zanna and Ethan were collateral damage. According to the affidavit, Zanna received a DoorDash food delivery at 4 a.m., then went back to her room on the second floor. It's possible, says Fox, that Zanna, still awake, came face-to-face with the killer.

And she sees somebody that she doesn't expect, and I don't think he was expecting to see her either. One of the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen, later told the police that she heard what she thought was crying coming from Zanna's room. She heard a male voice say something to the effect, it's okay, I'm going to help you. Not something a killer would likely say to an intended target, says Fox. He probably was trying to make a split-second decision. Do I run away? Do I kill her? What do I do? And he decided to kill her. At approximately 4.17 a.m., police say an outside security camera less than 50 feet from Zanna's room picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. Shortly after, Dylan, the surviving roommate whose bedroom was near Zanna's,

opened the door. According to the police affidavit, when Dylan opens the door, she saw a man dressed in black with a black mask and she says he has bushy eyebrows. Those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police are making their identification. The man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking

to the rear of the house without harming Dylan. Why was Dylan not killed? Again, there's no definitive answer. He didn't kill her because he didn't see her. He was sort of transfixed on getting out. He didn't kill her because he was satiated. Or he was simply too depleted to kill again, says Fox. Even stabbing somebody for a minute and a half, not only is that overkill, but it actually would become rather exhausting.

The police believe the murder weapon, which has not been found, was a military-style K-bar knife, similar to this one. The details are disturbing. This is not a civilian knife. It was actually meant to tear apart bone, ligaments, organs. So this is a extremely brutal and something that you would never expect a person to walk in and want to

commit unless they took some pleasure out of the brutality of it. After seeing the intruder, Dylan, the surviving roommate, told investigators she locked herself in her room. It would be almost eight hours before 911 was called, causing an uproar on social media criticizing Dylan's alleged inaction. But Brianna Fox says it's not unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to intervene. She had no reason to, you know, know how to handle herself in that moment.

According to the affidavit, the male walked towards the back sliding glass door and presumably left the scene. But committing murder and getting away with it are two different things, says Fox. For an offender to get away with a crime, a murder, they have to bat a thousand. They have to be absolutely perfect. If they make one singular mistake, that's all it takes. And that one possible mistake in this case may have been the sheath to the K-bar knife. One like this was found on the bed next to Maddie Mogan. It would lead investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in criminology,

Brian Koberger, the alleged killer. Day after day and week after week pass, and there is no suspect that is arrested. What was that time like for you? Oh, it was the worst. For 47 days after the murders, the families of Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan, and the country waited. We do not have a suspect at this time. And wept. And weighed in.

The people of Idaho and those throughout our nation who provided information has been very impressive. We've received over 19,000 tips. Then, on December 30, 2022, Brian Koberger was arrested in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. At the time, his attorney said Koberger looked forward to being exonerated. What goes through your mind when you see the face of the alleged killer? Oh, I wonder, who is this? Why?

You know, never heard of the person before. It's still confusing. Why? At this point, the families knew as much about Kohlberger as the public did. A Ph.D. candidate studying criminology just 10 miles away at Washington State University in Pullman. I remember thinking, I only have a few minutes to look up this individual and to try to get any credible information before things start getting wonky. Some of Olivia Gonsalves' online discoveries of Koberger made her uneasy.

He had made a few posts on Reddit in which he was conducting, it seems like a questionnaire, to people in prison or jail who had committed crimes. How did you pick your victim or your target? For seven weeks, the families and the country were left wondering. I think for this type of an investigation, 47 days is actually quick. Criminologist and CBS News consultant Brianna Fox

says the Moscow police kept things moving. Starting with a video canvas which produced footage from those early morning hours. Showing a white car making three passes by the girl's house starting around 3.30 a.m. Less than an hour later, investigators say, the killer struck. They noticed that this car approached King Road, left, came back, almost did a U-turn, finally went there around 4.06 in the morning, and that car then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off. Multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it traveled what appeared to be a less direct route back to Pullman, Washington, arriving around 5.30

a.m. That information helped investigators identify the make and model of the vehicle. the make and model of the vehicle. And we're looking for a 2011 to a 2013 Hyundai Elantra. Washington State Police find the car parked outside Graduate Housing. They get the license plate and they get Brian Koberger's name. They then get the driver's license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes of one of the Moscow detectives, must be the eyebrows of the killer. Now armed with a warrant, investigators retrieved cell tower data from that morning,

which captured Koberger's phone around 2.47 a.m. in Pullman when it suddenly stopped connecting to the network. According to the affidavit, this was also around the time cameras caught a white Elantra leaving his apartment complex. There was an indication that he turned off his cell phone, which is something that a lot of people do, and they want to avoid law enforcement knowing their whereabouts. His cell phone signal was picked up again two hours later, south of Moscow,

as it traveled back toward his apartment building. The affidavit described a deeper dive into Koberger's phone history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him, going back several months. Cell phone records indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime scene on 12 separate occasions. And Towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders. Anecdotally, a lot of killers, they like revisiting the memory

of the crime. You know, I won. I was able to get away with this, and you guys won't catch me. But they had one secret weapon to make their case. They had the knife sheath, and there was a microscopic spot of DNA on this. Could they tie this DNA to Kober? According to the affidavit, the DNA was found on the button snap of the sheath. But when investigators ran it through the national database,

there were no matches. It's unclear if Brian Koberger knew law enforcement was watching when he left Washington in mid-December. Koberger and his father, who had flown in from Pennsylvania, drove back home together in his white Elantra. Koberger, from what I've heard, tells the father that he's in trouble with his job. He's concerned enough about his son

to want to make the drive back with him. On the 2,500-mile journey from Washington, they are stopped twice for traffic violations. Hello? What's also interesting is Koberger's reaction to the police. He's pretty calm and cool. Father and son made it home to Albrightsville, Pennsylvania, where Bloom says investigators initiated a stealth operation.

What they did is they sent a team of Pennsylvania State troopers to Koberger's family's house. Law enforcement recovered Koberger's father's DNA from the trash outside their home, which tested as a high probability it was the biological father of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath. So that was the eureka moment, which they decided they could get an arrest warrant. At that point, they made the arrest of Brian Koberger, and they got a separate, essentially a search warrant for his DNA. And when investigators compared his DNA to the DNA on the knife sheath,

they say it was a statistical match, at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Coburgers than anyone else. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America

has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best-selling video game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products.

Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman.

The scary cult classic was set in the Chicago Housing Project. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. Candyman. Candyman? Now, we all know chanting a name won't make a killer magically appear, but did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. We're going to talk to the people who were there, and we're also going to uncover the larger story.

My architect was shocked when he saw how this was created. Literally shocked. And we'll look at what the story tells us about injustice in America. If you really believed in tough on crime, then you wouldn't make it easy to crawl into medicine cabinets and kill our women. Listen to Candyman,

the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free, with a 48-hour plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Where you sit today, are you certain that Brian Kohlberger is the killer? With what you know. I don't trust anybody or anything, so I have to see it myself. I have to see everything.

As the months pass, Steve and Christy Gonsalves remain a united front in wanting justice. But their weight has brought different perspectives. Your mind is still open to the potential? Of course. That it could have been someone else? Of course. Yep. I go into that 100%.

Yep. Of course. That's not where you are. No. Yeah, that's fine. I don't think there's any slam dunk. Criminologist Brianna Fox says with the gag order in place, any hint of Kohlberger's defense has come from court documents.

It seems that the defense is alleging there was a rush to judgment. Law enforcement made an arrest too fast, and they focused on their client too quickly. A defense filing did reveal Kohlberger's alibi for the night of the murders. It simply stated Mr. Kohlberger was out driving alone. The defense is not necessarily having to prove that he's innocent. They just have to raise doubt. Both Fox and Howard Bloom think the defense can find ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case,

challenging some of the key evidence presented in the affidavit, including the cell phone location data and the white Elantra. There's other concerns, such as whether Brian Koberger's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was revised after knowing what Brian Koberger drove. The cell phone data makes one suspicious of Koberger, but it's not convincing. It's not putting someone at someone's doorstep, it's putting someone in someone's neighborhood.

If you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the cell phone data, I think you're halfway there to getting the case against Koberger either a hung jury or a not guilty verdict. And there's more, according to the defense. That there was no DNA or forensic evidence found from the crime scene at the apartment, car, office, or on Brian Koberger's person. So they were basically alleging how could he have committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of

that. After consulting their own investigators, Christy and Steve theorize that Koberger likely brought what they call a kill kit with him. What do you mean by a kill kit? I think he had a backpack. A chain of clothes. We don't know if it was coveralls, pants, hoodie. We don't know. A defense filing also claimed the presence of other unidentified male DNA was found on the premises. Three separate and distinct male DNA profiles were found from the crime scene. Two were inside the premises. Three separate and distinct male DNA profiles

were found from the crime scene. Two were inside the house. One was outside on a glove. The defense wants to know who are these people and what role could they have played in this whole story. So what the defense is doing now is trying to look for other narratives that make sense. Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case, including a piece on a possible

alternative defense theory involving drugs. Maybe someone had reneged on a drug payment, and this was a retribution of vengeance for people not paying for drugs they had ordered. of vengeance for people not paying for drugs they had ordered. I want you guys to respond to one thing that's out there, because speculation that somehow drugs were involved in this attack. That's just Hollywood nonsense. I just dismiss that because I understand our society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch.

They don't have these crazy lives where they're crossing paths with people like that. That storyline of it being drugs gives people a reason to think why it happened, because nobody knows why. And the reason I think it happened is because he wanted to. That's what he wanted to do. He wanted to commit a murder. Brian Koberger's defense attorneys argue there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students. The defense is claiming that the defendant, Brian Koberger, and the victims have absolutely no connection. There's no motive.

In the minutes after Brian Koberger was publicly named, the Gonsalves family went online. They just told us the name and we immediately started Googling. They believed they had found a possible connection through Instagram and immediately took these screenshots. From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be the real Brian Koberger account. Among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, in addition to several people with the name Koberger. But when we looked through those, it appeared to have other family members that were related to him. At first, Steve, who works in IT, was skeptical,

thinking someone created a fake account immediately following Koberger's arrest. But according to the family, they uncovered more possible connections. You would go to Maddie's Instagram account and look at her pictures, and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot of Maddie's pictures, like that picture, and that picture, and that picture, and that picture. So he was actively looking at the Instagram accounts. And the importance of that is what? Just digital evidence that this particular account had some type of connection with the victims. 48 Hours has not confirmed the authenticity of this account, which has since been deleted.

And the gag order prevents investigators from commenting. After dedicating months looking for their own answers, the Gonsalveses say they are mentally prepared for trial, no matter when it begins. I think he's done. He's going to feel all of us just staring at the back of his head. And he's going to know that we are the Gonsalves family,

and he knows what he did to our daughter. How could this happen to a group of kids that are doing everything the way they're supposed to do? To not known is what keeps you awake at night. And it's every day, all day. It never stops. Why, why, why? There is no why. Why, why, why? There is no why. It is as unexplainable today as it was the day Kaylee Gonsalves, Maddie Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin were murdered.

I wish, I wish we knew. They were, all four of them were just such great people and made such an impact on the lives around them. For now, the families are left with thoughts of what might have been. Kaylee Jade Gonsalves has been recommended to receive a posthumous bachelor's degree. Her family will receive the diploma of the University of Idaho. On May 13, 2023, exactly six months from the day of the murders, an occasion that would have been a cause for celebration, graduation, was instead another reminder of what was lost.

Seeing all those graduation photos, it's just, they should be here. Graduation is just one of many milestones that will be missed. She would have been my maid of honor, and I probably would have been hers. And it's, like, sad to have to go through those life moments without her. Jasmine Kernodle planned to work side-by-side with her sister Zanna, creating their own marketing business. It's just not the same without her, because she just brought, like, such a crazy different energy than anybody

else I've ever met. Kaylee Gonsalves' future was in sight. She had accepted a job in Austin working for an IT firm. Kaylee not only pushed herself, say her parents, but pushed them. We lost that person that would force us to make new memories and force us to go and take on something that seems a little daunting at first. For the Gonsalveses, amid all the loss, there was an addition to the family when in February, Olivia gave birth to a baby girl. So her name is Theodora Maddy Kay. Obviously Maddy Kay is after Maddy and Kaylee. And if one were to believe in signs, there were, says Olivia, several with Theodora Maddy Kay's arrival. In the hospital, her room number, 1113, was the same as the date of the murders, November 13th.

And eerily, the time of birth, 421 a.m., is in the time frame that Kaylee and Maddie are believed to have been killed. To have birth and life and firsts, first giggles, first walks, that they would be there somehow, you know, even if it's just a namesake. This is the Gonsalves family. Maddie has truly been a blessing in our lives. I'm Zanna's sister. The families of Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan have all searched for ways, sometimes together, to cope with a horrible new normal. We all are always going to be there for each other, and it's just difficult. We're all going through it in our own ways. For Ethan's parents, Stacy and Jim Chapin, one way of coping involves creating a foundation, Ethan's smile.

Ethan just had Ethan's smile. Ethan just had a great smile. He smiled all the time. Raising money for scholarships by selling tulips planted in honor of Ethan, who had worked at a tulip farm. So Ethan will live on through the foundation. That's what motivates us to do this.

How do you live with this, Jeff? It's not easy. It's got to keep going, you know? I think just living our lives like Zanna would want us to. I know that she would want us to talk about the life that she lived and to be her voice right now. She had a beautiful smile. Her and Maddie.

The memories that we share, we don't do it lightly because they are very private memories. And sometimes it feels like I'm giving away a part of them. But I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it is. Because nothing's going to bring them back. Brian Koberger's trial has been set for June 2025. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey. darkest secrets. The most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals.

Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now.