48 Hours - Don't Scream - Encore

Episode Date: June 2, 2019

A young mom calls 911 claiming she cut her own throat in front of her estranged husband and her child-- doctors say there’s no way she did it to herself. "48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty investigates.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Sheriff's Office, Shelley. And what kind of car do you drive? Okay, sir, I've advised my troopers of your location. Just stay right there, and I'm going to have an officer come meet you.

July 23rd, it was about 11.30 at night. What is the address of your emergency? I'm in front of Davis High School. You have no idea what kind of a call's coming in. My neck's bleeding. I need help quick. Okay. What happened? I tried to commit suicide. Please help me. The minute I turned around and said,

this female's tried to cut her own throat, there's a great urgency. How much are you bleeding? A lot. My shirt is soaked. That means she's losing blood quickly. What's your name? Tiffany Meade. Okay, is anybody with you, Tiffany? My husband and my son. I then asked to speak to her husband. Do you have a dry clean cloth that you can apply pressure to her neck? I got my shirt. Well, we need something. Are you applying pressure?

Your shirt, your son's shirt. You know, I couldn't understand why isn't he in more of an urgent manner to put pressure on her throat. This is about where I was driving when I was dispatched. I can see the ambulance on the side of the road by the intersection. I grabbed my paramedic equipment out of the back and I approached her car. Tiffany was sitting in the driver's seat, her baby was in the back seat, and her estranged husband was pacing back and forth on the sidewalk next to the car, telling me over and over that she's crazy, that she had tried to

kill herself. He had no shirt on. I noticed he had blood all over his hands. She's just sitting right in her driver's seat of her vehicle with her hands on her neck like that, with what I found out later was his shirt. But I knew she was in really bad shape. It was a really severe wound. Tell me where it was. It was straight across her neck, all the way across. How could she still talk?

So her trachea had not been damaged, and so you're able to talk. The blood all over the car was just, it was unbelievable. I'm looking at this, and I'm like, there's no way that somebody's going to be able to survive this. Usually when people stab themselves, their injuries aren't very significant. She was critical when she came in. She just about cut off her head. There was no way that she could have done that to herself and not that deep.

I knew that it was called in as an attempted suicide. I'm thinking, what am I looking at here? Did you ever expect the case to take you where it did? No. Not in a million years. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet. A brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy about the surprising origin stories of the

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And it harbored a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still have heard it. It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones, and for almost two years, I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it,

people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Just after midnight on July 24, 2013... All right, walk over this way with me.

Sergeant Bob Thompson arrived at the scene where Tiffany Meade had been found with her throat cut. And what did you know at that point? Absolutely nothing. Tiffany had already been rushed to the hospital, but before she left, she changed her story, telling deputies that it was actually her estranged husband, Chris Ertman, who attacked her. She told Deputy Sorensen, keep him away from me. He did this to me and saved my baby. If she's called this in as a suicide and now she's saying he really did this,

you don't know what to believe at that moment, right? It's a bit of a conundrum. Tiffany's car was at the scene, but Thompson noticed something didn't look quite right. There was blood on the outside of the door. And I'm thinking, how did that blood get there? The detective learned Tiffany and her husband had first met up at a secluded park a mile away, where investigators found a second scene.

I could see the blood. So now I know, okay, this must have happened outside of the car. And before she started driving. Right. This woman tried to cut herself, and she's clearly injured. To get in a car and drive, did that make sense? Didn't make sense at all. Thompson still wasn't sure what kind of crime he was dealing with, if any. Do you know whether it's an attempted suicide, an actual suicide, attempted murder, or a murder?

I have no idea. He didn't know Tiffany's condition. However, there was someone in custody. Chris Ertman. He hadn't been officially arrested, but he was not free to leave. Ertman was photographed. His clothes were taken as evidence. And then Thompson wanted to hear what Ertman had to say. Why are you here tonight?

Well, she tried to commit suicide and I helped her out and burned. And I tried to save her. I assisted in saving her. Thompson learned that Ertman worked for a painting contractor. He and his wife had been married five years and had two children, two-year-old Noah and Wyatt, who was almost four. The couple was divorcing and had met that night so Ertman could give her a child support check. We exchanged a few words and I don't know how she'd be able to put a knife to her throat, but okay. She tried to say I slit her throat.

According to Ertman, Tiffany was taking antidepressants. She has a history of being suicidal. She has a history of being suicidal. People don't commit suicide that way, especially for a mother to do it in front of her child. Didn't make sense to me. And neither did Ertmann's oddly calm demeanor. Was he concerned about his estranged wife? No. He didn't ask once how she was doing, and he never asked where his child was.

But what Thompson wanted most from Ertman were details about what led to his wife's horrific injuries. I don't remember it, but if you don't mind, I kind of really don't want to talk about it anymore. Why wouldn't you remember? It just happened a few hours ago. He can't remember any details. And what's going through your head?

That he did this. Ertman was arrested and charged with attempted murder. Attempted because somehow, despite the devastating injuries, Tiffany Meade survived. Show me where he caught you. He started over here. He went straight across and he stopped right before my artery on this side. It's been more than five years, but Tiffany is permanently scarred. Every time you look in the mirror, are you reminded of that night? I avoid looking in the mirror as much as possible.

You know, this girl is strong. She is strong, Erin. At the time, Lt. Jen Daly was Bob Thompson's partner on this case and his boss. She vividly remembers arriving at the hospital to get a statement from the 22-year-old who was in critical condition. I will never forget. I can still see her laying in that hospital bed. I'm looking at that wound, and the whole time I'm thinking, how? Tiffany told Daily she had only agreed to meet her estranged husband because he promised to bring that child support check. Their relationship was now so toxic, they mostly communicated by text.

He told me not to bring anyone. He kept reminding me to come along. Come along. Tiffany texted that she would have to bring two-year-old Noah. At the last minute, Ertman picked this out-of-the-way park to meet. They come in from just the east side here, so they pull in here. This is where her car was parked. So Tiffany's here.

Right. We've got some empty space. Yes. Chris pulls in there. They walk towards each other. I was terrified. He had this look. He was so determined coming at me.

I didn't know what he was going to do. She says suddenly Ertman grabbed her in a bear hug and backed her up against her car door. And he had one hand on my mouth. He pulled something out of his pocket and he slit my throat. And he slit my throat. And as he's slitting my throat, he says, Shh, don't scream, stay calm. And I didn't scream. And I told him I was getting dizzy, so he opened my car door for me so that I could sit and he said you know what I want say it

so I said I love you and I'll get back with you and then he said still with a kiss and he leaned in and he kissed me as blood blood pouring out of my neck. Then he said that we needed to come up with a story if I was going to call 911. So I said, okay, I'll tell him whatever you want me to do. But first, Tiffany had to get herself out of this remote area. I had to get somewhere where I could explain to 911 where I was. All I could think was I had to get my baby to safety. Somehow, Tiffany managed to drive with one hand on the steering wheel, the other holding back the blood pouring from her wound.

When she got to this bus stop with her husband beside her, he let her call 911. What happened? I tried to commit suicide. Please help me. As soon as there were sheriffs between me and Chris, I let him know. Chris did this. He tried to kill me. Lying in the ambulance near death, she called her mother. She called and she said that Chris had tried to kill her

and she needed me to pick up Noah. I had no idea what she was going through at the time. As I was laying in the ambulance looking up at the lights, I was thinking, oh, it's over. Noah's safe. I can die now. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all.

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Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now. Did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. Chris Ertman was in custody and charged with attempting to murder his ex-wife, something unimaginable five years earlier when the couple first met online. Tiffany was a high school senior. He was in the Army.

He was really sweet. Were you in love? I thought I was. Just six weeks later, they eloped. It wasn't long before they became parents. But when Ertman returned from his deployment in Iraq, Tiffany says he became emotionally abusive and very volatile. He could change on the drop of a dime. Just little things would make him so angry. Although he never hit her, she lived in fear of his rages. Why did you stay? The biggest

reason, I was just, I was scared. I didn't think I could do it on my own. But in late 2012, Tiffany finally had enough and fled with her boys. They moved in with her parents, and she moved on with her life, working full-time and going to college at night. She even started dating a new guy. How did Chris take you leaving? Not well. It was always, come back to me. You're not going to be able to do this by yourself.

But the facts of what happened that night weren't as clear-cut as detectives Jen Daly and Bob Thompson thought. It's dark. Can we take a quick picture of his hand? No one sees or hears anything, and you have Chris Ertman saying one thing, and you have Tiffany Meade saying a completely different thing. He said, she said. They didn't even have the knife used to slit Tiffany Meade's throat. Daly believes as Tiffany drove down this dark road holding her bloody neck, her estranged husband tossed the knife out the

window into this deep ravine. It's so thick from years of the overgrowth, and we did everything to uncover that knife. I mean, metal detectors, cadaver dogs. And you think, oh my goodness, are we going to lose the case because of something like that? I mean, if you had the knife and you could see whether his DNA was on the knife, that's going to help the case. Or fingerprints. It's very difficult without some physical evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Adding to Daly and Thompson's concerns, a month after the attack, the judge received this unsigned letter. I am a good friend of Tiffany, but I can't see letting

this happen to Chris for his kid's sake. The letter writer claimed Tiffany had cut her own throat and was trying to frame Chris Ertman, exactly what he had told police. Any side of you think, oh my God, could that be true? We took this as something that was credible. I mean, obviously this needed to be followed up on. The return address was from a Mary Olsen in Ogden. On Monroe Street.

in Ogden. On Monroe Street. But as the detectives soon discovered, the address didn't exist, and it seemed neither did Mary Olson. I run the driver's license of every Mary Olson in the state of Utah that roughly matched Tiffany's age group. Nothing. There's nothing. I didn't even know anyone named Mary at the time. Who do you think arranged for that letter?

There's no doubt in my mind that Chris did it. Davis County attorneys Richard Larson and Jason Nelson also suspected an Ertman connection, but they still needed proof to tie Ertman to the letter and to bolster their attempted murder case against him. We were absolutely convinced that he had inflicted the injury. That wasn't the big question. The big question was what was his intent when he did it.

This case rose and fell based on that one question. Was Chris Ertman actually trying to kill his estranged wife or merely injure and scare her? The defense could argue that Chris let Tiffany call 911 and he gave her his shirt to help stop the bleeding. Do you have a dry, clean cloth that you can apply pressure to her neck? I got my shirt. Prosecutors fear, without more evidence,

jurors might conclude that this was an aggravated assault, not an attempted murder, which meant Ertman could be out of prison in a year. What's your fear if he gets out? He'll try it again. I was angry, internally angry. I couldn't even wrap my head around it, that you could do that to a human being in front of a child and a year later you're free to walk around. She looked at us and said, that's not good enough.

Jen Daly believed that making sure Chris Ertman stayed locked up was the only way to keep Tiffany alive. And I said, I want to start listening to jail phone calls. Hello, this is a prepaid collect call from an inmate at Davis County Jail, Utah. A month after Ertman was arrested, Daly started listening to his phone calls,

something every inmate is warned about repeatedly. What's the chance he's going to say anything incriminating on a phone call? Oh, stranger things have happened. Hey, I don't want to do it over the phone, okay? I really wanted a confession, because if we got the confession that that's what his intent was, then I knew we could put him away longer. So I listened, and I listened some more, and I listened some more after that. Daly listened to hundreds of phone calls and watched endless jailhouse visits.

And people would come in my office and tell me, hundreds of phone calls and watched endless jailhouse visits. And people would come in my office and tell me, I can't believe you're still listening to it. And I would look at them and say, neither can I. I would like to stick pencils in my ears. But with no revelations, after three months, Daly reluctantly gave up. My gut kept telling me, you've got to keep listening. It's there. It's there. So she started again, picking up where she left off.

What's his name? What if that's where his confession is? Daly had gotten up to Ertman's December 2013 calls, made five months after the attack. You may start the conversation now. This call, he was on the phone with his father. Write down this name, Raymond. Raymond? Yeah. And tell Kenny to just Facebook him and tell him that I'm in here. And I took a yellow sticky note that exact size. One like this? Exactly that size. And I wrote the name on that yellow sticky pad.

She had no idea if the name had any significance. Can you ever Facebook that dude for me? I will. But as she listened to more calls, Do you, by chance, call that one dude? it was clear to Daly that for Chris Ertman, contacting this dude was urgent. Can you give me that dude's address so I can write him to him, if you can? Yeah, what's his name again? contacting this dude was urgent. Ertman only mentioned his friend's name once,

but that's all Jen Daly needed. I looked at that sticky pad, still had that name written on it, and I pulled it off, and I remember it was stuck to my index finger, and I walked down the hallway into his office, and I held my hand out just like this, and I said, I need you to find this guy. Find him for me. What's been the hardest part? What's been the hardest part? What's been the toughest for you? Getting used to all my new fears.

Things that most people don't think twice about. For Tiffany Meade, memories of that harrowing July night are everywhere. Driving at night. The sound of dripping water. Dripping water. Why? Because I heard my blood dripping in the car into a pool. Lieutenant Jen Daly was convinced that keeping Chris Ertman behind bars was the only way to keep Tiffany safe. And she knew she was on to something with that sticky note. Whatever you heard in January of 2014 changed everything in this case.

It took this case in a place that we never saw coming. It turned out the Raymond Ertman mentioned is a former inmate. We're only using his first name. He had served time on a methamphetamine possession charge. Now out on probation, Raymond agreed to talk with the detectives on camera, although he wasn't quite sure what about. Raymond, we want to ask you some questions about when you were in our jail. Okay. I spent 90 days in, like, Davis County.

jail. Okay. I spent 90 days in like Davis County and so I'm doing pretty good because to be honest being skinny and weak and ridiculous all the time was kind of not my lifestyle. He's a character but when he talks it's instantly credible. He doesn't have anything to hide. Until Sergeant Thompson brought up Chris Ertman, and something changed. Did you get to know any of the inmates in there? What about a guy named Christopher Ertman? Oh, yeah, yeah. He's a quiet guy. Did he ever talk about the situation that he was in with his ex-wife and all that stuff? Yeah.

Tell me about that. What happened in jail stayed in jail, man. But Daly saw a chance to appeal to Raymond's conscience. There's a time to do what's right. This is one of those moments in your life that you can start with that. It worked. Okay, so what do you want to know specifically? Just tell me about his conversations.

What do you know? Just admit a guilt, man. I guess like that he's the one that cut her throat. For prosecutor Richard Larson, that was a crucial admission for Mertman. Up until that point, he had claimed that he had had no involvement. And that wasn't all. Raymond told them about a handwritten letter that Ertman gave him to copy once he got out of jail. Saying that I was his wife to the judge that is presiding over his case, saying that she admitted that she lied and that the allegations were false. It sounded a lot like the other letter from Mary Olson.

Remember, authorities suspected it was orchestrated by Ertman, but they couldn't prove it. If they could find this letter in Ertman's handwriting, they could charge him with obstruction of justice. Well, let's get that letter. Yeah. Where's it at? I have to find it, dude. I think it's in Ogden. And while Raymond was getting things off his chest, Thompson took a chance.

Did he ever ask you to do anything to Tiffany? Uh, yeah. That question was purely just a shot in the dark. Tell me about that. He just asked me if I had the connections to arrange for bad things to happen to her. I told him that I did not. And you can see Jen all of a sudden leans forward like, holy cow. You said bad things. What are bad things?

To arrange her death, specifically. According to Raymond, Ertman asked him to hire a hitman to silence Tiffany for good. At that moment, we realized that this has gone to a whole new level where we've got somebody who's in custody that is still trying to orchestrate the death of his victim.

And if they could prove that Chris Ertman was looking to put out a hit on Tiffany, they could charge him with another crime, solicitation to commit aggravated murder, potentially ensuring that he would stay behind bars for the rest of his life. But first, they had to warn Tiffany. He wanted to have me killed.

He wanted to have someone else do what he couldn't. I remember everyone was asleep, just sitting on the floor, crying and rocking back and forth and wondering if I could ever leave the house again. And the case against Ertman got stronger when Raymond was able to find that Ertman letter. I remember Jen and Bob coming in with great big smiles on their face. They're like, we've got it. A handwriting analysis confirmed that Ertman

had written it. Next, Daly and Thompson sent Raymond back in to visit Ertman through the jail's video conference system. How are you holding up, bro? Not bad, you know, just chilling. The goal, to get Ertman on tape telling Raymond to send that letter to the judge. And more important, to order a hit. I've still got that letter, dude. Like, I've got that ready, bro. Like, you want me to send it? Yeah, you can do that. You got him.

On obstructing charges. But when it came to the hit... Remember that work that you needed done, though? Yeah. Dude, I've got that guy, bro. I can't do it at this time, though. Should I try to, like, negotiate a little bit

and see what I can do or what? No, let's just wait on that. Without that green light from Ertman, prosecutors didn't have enough for the solicitation charge, and they had used up their source.

Hi, man. Patient. It seemed like a dead end. It sucked. There's no doubt about it. There was a devastation, and it was interesting because then it was like, where do we go from here? I couldn't give it up. I'm glad I never gave it up because the next step came. 007 007 I'm glad I never gave it up because the next step came.

If I hadn't have told him what he wanted to hear, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have happily watched me bleed to death. Davis County detectives Bob Thompson and Jen Daly were convinced that even from jail, Chris Ertman was still trying to kill his wife. They just couldn't prove it. We were done at that point, or so we thought. And then, out of the blue,

Daly heard from an old friend, a jailhouse informant who had given her information in the past. He's a bad guy. He's hurt people. You wouldn't want to meet him up in an alley. The inmate, we're not using his name and we've obscured his face, was back in the Davis County Jail in the same cell block as Chris Ertman. And he told Daly he had information he was willing to trade for help with his case. Then I told him, no. So you're either going to tell me what you have, or this is done.

Daly knew from experience how unreliable this particular inmate could be. In one minute, the guy has amazing information, and it's validated, and in the next minute he screws you. Still, this snitch knew specific details about Tiffany's attack. And there was more. Chris is trying to get him to hire somebody to kill Tiffany. I almost fell off my seat because if anybody could do it, it's him. This heightened it even more for me.

So Daly and the team decided to set up a sting and arrange for Ertman to be introduced to a person posing as a hired gun. Don't you worry about this idea that the defendant can say, this was entrapment, I wouldn't plan on hiring a hitman. Not at all. I mean, the case law is very clear. It's only entrapment. If the government is convincing somebody to do something they wouldn't otherwise do. You don't go and say, hey, can I do this for you? It's, I've heard you want me to do this. Is that correct? What have you been doing though, man? You been working out in there or what? So they turn to an undercover cop. We're calling Jim Kelly. This is you? Correct. At that time, Kelly was working in narcotics and knew how to deal with informants. The detectives put their plan in motion and sent Kelly to visit the informant at the jail.

That's him in the upper right-hand corner talking to Kelly. He had told Ertman he was meeting with a hitman who could help him out. That's Chris Ertman. And he's taking a look at you because he wants to get... He wants to see who he's talking to because he's curious to see who is this person that's going to come do this for me. But looking is all Ertman does. Instead of talking, he hands the inmate a piece of paper to show to the hitman. Did you see that?

Yeah. Okay. It's the address where Tiffany is staying. And is it the correct address? It is. It shows that he's starting to take the bait. It's a start. But Prosecutor Larson says it's not yet enough to bring new charges.

The criminal act is the solicitation to have her killed. Just because he provides an address of his victim isn't enough. They needed Ertman to confirm on camera that his ex-wife was the target. Detectives warned Tiffany about the latest threat and asked her to pose for photos staged to look like surveillance photos taken by the hitman. We filled up some bags and she got in her car and then got out and was walking into the house as if she just got home from shopping and we took photos. and we took photos. Jim Kelly then headed back to the jail with the photos.

But when he got there, the whole thing falls apart. It starts to implode. Yeah. The notoriously unreliable jailhouse informant wanted a deal. He refused to cooperate any further unless he was released from jail. Prosecutor Jason Nelson got the call. I was not very happy. We weren't going to be extorted by someone trying to leverage us with evidence of a potential first-degree felony. They quickly moved the snitch out of the cell block.

But Bob Thompson was convinced he'd already tipped off Ertman. It's all over. That's what it felt like. That's what it felt like to me. I thought, all this hard work just became unraveled by a career criminal. Still, Jen Daly was determined. I wanted the undercover cop to still go in,

only visit Chris this time. And he was, no, no, it's not going to work. And I'm like, I don't care. I'm doing it anyway. Six days after that first visit, Jim Kelly walked back into the visitor's entrance of the jail, asking to see Chris Zertman. to the visitor's entrance of the jail, asking to see Chris Ertman.

Jen Daly was in her office, watching the clock and praying. I was a basket case. Like, I seriously had butterflies in my belly to the point I thought I was going to throw up waiting. And tick-tock, tick-tock. As Jen Daly waits, undercover cop Jim Kelly returns to the Davis County Jail, along with those surveillance photos of Tiffany Meade. He knows it's a gamble with long odds. Would Chris Ertman be willing to talk to him?

You don't know whether he's going to pick up the phone or not, right? No. I can hear myself talking. Please, Lord, please let him pick up the phone or not, right? No. I can hear myself talking. Please, Lord, please let him pick up that phone. Please help her. And the next thing I know, I'm on the phone with him. What's up, man? How much? How are you?

Good. How are you? It's Ertman. And that's me. Kelly, posing as a hitman, needs to get Ertman to identify the target and give him the go-ahead. I took a couple pictures and just want to verify with you. Yeah. So Kelly shows him the surveillance photos taken by the detectives. Do you see that?

Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Is that her? Yeah. Okay. So no matter what, you know on your own that he wants something done to his wife. Done to her, yeah, exactly.

Ertman had backed out before, so Kelly needs to find out if he's really serious about killing his wife. Some people say, you know, I want to kill my wife. And then other people say, I want to kill my wife. Right. What kind of things did you ask him to make sure he really wanted her dead? Mm-hmm. I mean, because we were being recorded

and he knew we were being recorded, we had to kind of speak in a code. So what was telling me was, you know, make it happen. Yeah, yeah, just, you know, have fun. And so I had to do the best I could in making sure that we were talking about what we believed we were talking about.

And you're saying, I mean, all the way, right? Not... Yeah, have fun. Okay. Three or four times, try to say things like, you know this is, you know, we're going all the way, and making him affirm that. And he just says, yeah, go have fun.

Yeah, but go have fun was hard to hear. Is there a time period? I mean, is there a... No, no. No? Sooner the better. Sooner the better? Yeah. Okay.

And then, it's time to talk money. I've never been asked to kill anybody. I don't know what the dollar figure is. So he went where we all go for answers. Google. You can actually Google the going rate for murder for hire? Yeah, we put that into Google and we found a number. I'm thinking about 5K.

Yeah. Does that work? Yeah. Kelly had the green light from Ertman, but just to be sure, he asked again. So, but just so we're clear, I'm talking about, you know, we're not, there's no way to come back from it once I do it. I know. You're good with that? Yeah, yeah.

5,000 is good? Yeah. Okay, well, I'll, I'm planning on taking care of it this weekend. Okay. Back in her office, Jen Daly gets the news she had been praying for. And I went from complete, almost despair that we lost this case to elation like I haven't felt

in the blink of an eye. It was the best feeling ever. We knew this was a solid case and we knew that we could get the conviction now. Daly then calls Tiffany. I was so relieved. The best feeling

you'd had in a while? Yeah. That was probably the safest I had been since all of it started. Along with the attempted murder charge, prosecutors now added obstruction of justice and solicitation to commit aggravated murder.

That man committed more felonies in the jail than he did when he was free. It took Jen Daly and Bob Thompson almost a year to get the evidence they had hoped would keep Chris Ertman locked up. But the case would never go to trial. Disappointed? No, no. For Tiffany, she didn't want it to go to trial. Prosecutors offered Chris Ertman a deal,

and he pleaded no contest. I mean, I'll take blame for it. Yeah, I did it, but I was not in my right mind. I'm not dangerous. Chris says that he was suffering from PTSD. Right. You don't buy that. I don't buy it at all.

We had no actual diagnosis of PTSD. For us, we believed that that was fictional and that he was only saying that to try and negate his personal accountability. Ertman's plea means he could spend anywhere from six years to the rest ofate his personal accountability. Ertman's plea means he could spend anywhere from six years to the rest of his life in prison. By law in Utah, it will be up to the Board of Pardons and Parole

to decide when Ertman will be released. Jen Daly makes the 150-mile drive to be at the hearing and to support Tiffany. Oh, there's my girl. How you doing, honey? I, in my career, have never attended a parole hearing, and I won't miss one of his. I hope that I can help keep him there as long as possible. He's that dangerous? Yes. At Tiffany's side is Butters, her very protective emotional support dog.

I have to do everything in my power to keep this monster locked away. I wake up every morning wondering if today is going to be the day that Chris will summon someone to have fun killing me. I am here again, terrified. If he's ever released, there is no doubt in my mind he will come for me and he will finish what he started. Please help me keep my kids safe. Tiffany will have to wait for the board's decision, but five years after she was almost killed her future seems brighter. Besides her loving family, she has a new husband and her ever-present guardian angel, Captain Jen Daly. I'm so happy you did such a good job. You were strong. She's moved mountains. She's helped save my life.

I don't know why the cards fell the way they did. I'm just grateful it all worked out for Tiffany Meade, because I got involved into this job in 1989 to help people. And I can say I helped one person. Christopher Ertmann was not granted parole. The board found there was still a risk to public safety. This next hearing will be in June 2029. For help, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE.

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