48 Hours - Follow the Money

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

In April 2006, Andrew Kissel, a real estate mogul who had embezzled more than $40 million, was found tied up and stabbed to death in the basement of his Greenwich, Connecticut mansion, just days before he was to plead guilty for his crimes. Police suspected his driver and confidant, Carlos Trujillo, who was the last person to see Andrew alive. “48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty reports. This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 9/4/2010. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays, and stream on demand on Paramount+.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. I'm Erin Moriarty of 48 Hours and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crosley Green,

early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. Fraudsters, con men, whatever you want to call them, ultimately, they're looking to get your money. It's all about greed. Some of the cases that I've worked included the biggest fraud in history, the Bernard Madoff case. I'm Steve Garfinkel. I'm a retired FBI agent. The Madoff scheme, you know, over the life of the scheme,

it was over $170 billion. $170 billion. I mean, that is a huge amount of money. I worked the Sam Israel Bayou hedge fund case. It was a $400 million case. And Andrew Kissel, which was a $40 million case. And Andrew Kissel, which was a 40 million dollar case. Exclusivity is something that all Ponzi schemers seek. He's not going to take everybody's money. He just only wants to take yours. If you would Google Andrew Kissel, you would find that he was the president of

a real estate management group and an owner of apartment buildings. By all appearances, he looked very successful. I mean, Andrew was a liar. He was a thief. He wasn't stealing from people as much as he was defrauding banks. He didn't, you know, stick a gun in your face, but he was doing it with a paper and a pen. Andrew Kissel was one complicated guy.

I'm Philip Russell. I was Andrew Kissel's attorney. He was a very good father to his children. He was a good friend to some of his friends. And he was the worst thing that ever happened to his investors and to people that trusted him with money. He stole money. That was something that he didn't seem able to control. He wanted a bigger car, he wanted a bigger boat.

He wanted to be out in front. They always think they're gonna get away with it. Eventually, the whole thing is gonna, you know, collapse. Was a Monday morning, my phone rang, and it was a prosecutor from the US Attorney's Office. She said, it's Kissel. And I said, suicide? And she said, no, homicide.

It's been murdered. The first thing I thought was, who did it? He had enthusiastic, motivated enemies. Lots of them. Follow the money. Greenwich, Connecticut. One of the ritziest zip codes in the nation. Some of the richest, wealthiest people in America live in Greenwich. And Andrew wanted to play the part. It's where 46-year-old Andrew Kissel hoped to make his name in real estate.

Instead, in 2006, he became the community's most infamous murder victim. I was shocked. I was stunned. Phil Russell, Andrew's attorney, says his client was just days from pleading guilty to bank fraud in court. It was a complete surprise that this would happen to him. This is a man who had hurt a lot of people. But it was money. And for a bank fraud case to have this type of violence

is just unusual. Andrew was found dead on Monday morning, April 3rd, 2006. He and his family were in the process of moving. Andrew had stayed behind in their rented mansion. The movers discovered his body. I went up there and the crime scene unit was up there. Police brought in FBI special investigator

Steven Garfingle to identify Andrew's body. How often are you asked to ID the body of a homicide? I'm a white-collar guy. This was the only time this happened in my career. Kissel's body was in the basement. The first time I met Andrew Kissel was when I saw him laying there in his boiler room. Greenwich Police Detective Pasquale Irafino. He was bound and gagged.

There was a lot of blood all over the concrete floor. Andrew's hands and feet were bound. He was blindfolded and stabbed multiple times. I believe the final blow may have been to the jugular. He bled out, he bled out a lot. Pretty awful way to die? Very brutal. No one wants to die that way.

There was no sign of a struggle and no forced entry. Police quickly concluded this was not a random crime. Andrew Kissel, they discovered, had a long list of enemies. He told me a lot of people hate me. Carlos Trujillo, Andrew's longtime driver and personal assistant, says his boss may have had a premonition. He told me many times, you know, a lot of people, you know, want to kill him. Andrew Kissel's violent death brought to an end a life once brimming with promise. violent death brought to an end a life once brimming with promise. He grew up in New Jersey, the oldest of three children in an upwardly mobile family.

He came from a good family, a loving family, you know, an educated family. Carol Horton dated Andrew's kid brother Robert in high school and knew all the Kissels. I never saw any problems. I saw a happy family. Their father, Bill Kissel, was a successful businessman who had high expectations for his sons. Tough on the boys? Yeah. Yeah, he was. He set down rules and expected them to be followed. Do you think things came quite as easily for Andrew as they came for Rob? No, I think Andy worked a little harder.

He had a very monotone personality type. As opposed to Rob. Yeah, who was just very gregarious, very loving, very outspoken. They were two completely different people. They were night and day, night and day. This house is the house where the Kissels grew up in right here. Danny Williams lived just around the corner. Well, I remember playing basketball on this driveway.

We'd also play wiffle ball here every day. And games a monopoly, where the brothers chose the very roles they would later assume for real Robert the future financier if it was monopoly he had to be the banker always always and Andy would have to be the real estate guy even as a young man Andrew was already building an image he always wanted to impress he liked to show off what he had, you know, status. He liked to show status. By 1990, Andrew was an up and coming real estate developer in New York City.

He was successful financially when he started. And he had a nice life sort of laid out in front of him. All he had to do was stay on the path. He had married Haley Wolfe, a financial analyst from a prominent family who had been a world champion skier. 10 years later, he had it all. Two children, a ski house in Vermont,

and an apartment in a New York co-op, where he served as treasurer. Everybody kind of wanted to kiss up a little bit to Andrew. So I got the impression Andrew was pretty important. Andrew soon had his hand and cash in everything. Horses, an olive oil business. He even invested in a play. Brian Howey produced it.

I thought it had good taste, which was flattering to me on a creative level. Andrew spared no expense to amuse himself and his friends. He was generous. And was living large. 85, 90-foot yacht, beautiful a couple jet skis on it. And he didn't have just one car. No, like 30 some cars. That seemed like a guy who was looking for things to do to have fun with his money, like

he couldn't spend it fast enough. As Andrew's spending and behavior spiraled out of control, some friends blamed his actions on a tragic event 8,000 miles away in Hong Kong. It's an unbelievable tragedy. It's just lightning striking twice in the same place. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park.

They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets,

the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals.

Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C True Crime shows early and ad-free right now. The competitive Kissel brothers had each found success. Andrew was a real estate developer in Greenwich, Connecticut. His younger brother, a high-flying investment banker in Hong Kong. By 2003, Robert was one of Merrill Lynch's top guys in Southeast Asia. He was one of the best out there and he loved his job. Frank Shea was Robert's friend and he was successful. Very. He was earning millions. Robert, his wife Nancy, and their three children lived in a sprawling apartment in a

luxury complex overlooking Hong Kong. Nancy seemed very happy. She always tried to please Rob. She was always very proud of what he achieved. Neighbor Trudy Samra became a close friend. On the outside world, it appeared she had the perfect life. But in early November 2003, Robert suddenly disappeared. She said to me something terrible has happened. She sounded distraught. She sounded very upset. A colleague at work reported him missing.

Police went to the Kissels' apartment to investigate. When they searched the family storage unit, they found boxes of bloody items and a rolled up carpet. And what in fact was inside that carpet? Rob Kissel's body. And what, in fact, was inside that car? Rob Kissel's body. Robert Kissel had been bludgeoned to death, his head bashed five times, and police investigators quickly focused on Nancy.

Within hours, she was arrested and charged with murder. They said that she had murdered him. I just couldn't believe that. Not the Nancy I knew. she wouldn't do that. As investigators soon discovered, Robert Kissel's life, much like his older brother Andrew's in Connecticut, was nothing like it appeared. In Robert's case, it was during the SARS epidemic, when his wife and children fled to Vermont, that he began to suspect something was wrong

with his marriage. Robert hired private investigator Frank Shea to spy on Nancy. Rob thought there was something going on between Nancy and someone. He was right, says Shea. Nancy was having an affair with a local TV equipment installer.

Rob Kissel was devastated. All he wanted to do was get his marriage back together. Nancy returned to Hong Kong, but Robert discovered she was still secretly in touch with her lover. The last time that you talked to Robert Kissel, was he planning on obtaining a divorce? Yes. He said that the marriage was over. According to friends, he intended to tell her that on November 2nd, 2003, the night he was murdered.

The case captivated Hong Kong. Albert Wong covered the story for the English language daily, The Standard. I think it really hit home with a lot of the people in Hong Kong. Well, that's about it. It was a glimpse of a world that they're not used to. Robert Kissel's stylish blonde wife was almost unrecognizable when she went on trial in 2005. Nancy Kissel was always dressed in black,

a typical widow look, as it were. The prosecution's theory was simple. They say it was a cold-blooded murder. This was no accident. There was evidence Nancy had been researching and stockpiling various sedatives, and they had a witness. Just hours before Robert was murdered,

Andrew Tanzer, a journalist and neighbor, says Nancy made the two men a special milkshake. It had some strange taste, some taste which I could not recognize. Do you think that Nancy Kissel added drugs to your milkshake? Oh, of that I'm pretty certain. In fact, an autopsy would reveal five different drugs in Robert Kissel's system, including

Rohypnol, known as the date rape drug. What do you believe happened the night that Robert Kissel was killed? I think that he was drugged. I think that he went into his bedroom. I think he passed out. And I think Nancy Kissel then took a bronze statue and murdered him. But when Nancy took the stand,

she told a different story. She said it was self-defense. She really thought he was going to kill her. He came at her with a baseball bat. There was a struggle. And it's at this point that she just swings back. And he kind of sits back and looks at the blood and says, you bitch. And then at that point charges at her with a baseball bat. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. And she said, then she just blanks out.

Nancy testified that for years Robert had subjected her to physical and sexual abuse. Trudy Samra remembers seeing suspicious injuries. The first time she had a rib injury, and one time we had a girls' night here, and she came in and I said, wow, what happened to you? And she had a big, big blue eye. But Nancy never told her she was being abused. And Frank Shea doesn't buy Nancy's defense. Do you believe that Robert Kissel abused his wife? No, not for a second. In fact, given the amount of drugs that were in his system, he was defenseless. There is no way he could have defended himself, no less attack somebody.

It took the jury eight hours to convict Nancy Kissel of murder. She was sentenced to life in a Chinese prison. Andrew Kissel was clearly devastated by the loss of his only brother, but things were only going to get worse. What happened to his brother really affected Andrew tremendously. Andrew Kissel's friend Brian Howey says Andrew never recovered from his brother's death.

His life just went on a different course from there. It just changed where his priorities lay. He said it was more about, I need to be happy right now. Andrew was trying to buy his happiness. He was shelling out $50,000 for his friends to have a good weekend. Indulging in extravagant parties on his yacht. Fully stocked with any kind of food and drink and crew and everything he wanted. But where was the money coming from? While Robert had played by the rules, Andrew for years

had been taking illegal shortcuts. He began in 1996 in New York City, where he and his family lived in that luxury high-rise, where Andrew was the building's treasure. You just don't think your neighbor's going to steal from you. Peter Chamberlain, new to the board of directors, was puzzled by some of Andrew's reports. No one could account for how a hallway project could cost $2 million or $1 million. All the receipts, all the bills, all the contracts were in Andrew Kissel's possession.

An investigation revealed that Andrew had secretly transferred building funds into his own accounts. He was caught red-handed. He left the building in a very unsophisticated way, jumping in the service elevator and out the garage door, literally running down to 2nd Avenue. To avoid legal action, Andrew agreed to pay back the nearly $4 million he owed. We all wondered, well, where does somebody who had to steal $4 million

come up with $4 million to give back? For Andrew Kissel, the answer was simple. Another scam in another state. Connecticut. He moved his family to Greenwich, where he had been buying and developing expensive homes as investments. Greenwich is probably the wealthiest town in Connecticut in terms of value of property. Nancy Walkley, a title search attorney,

had processed some of the mortgage applications Kissel submitted to develop those multi-million dollar properties. In 2005, while reviewing routine paperwork, she noticed something fishy about the signatures. The A in the Andrew looked very similar to the A in the first name of the gentleman who signed that Astoria Federal mortgage. A quick check with the bank confirmed her fear. The color must have drained out of my face. I thought, oh my, I can't believe what I think is happening is happening. It appeared that Andrew had forged a bank executive signature indicating a five and a half million dollar mortgage was paid off

when it wasn't. Had you ever run into anyone doing that in the past? Never. Walkley stopped the deal and as it turns out it wasn't the first time Andrew had bilked banks with forged documents. He had been doing it for years. Here's a Juanita signature from November 03 here's one from January 04. This is totally different. The FBI was called. Steve Garfinkel led the investigation. He'd borrow money, Yes.

file a fake release of that, saying that he no longer owed that money, then would borrow again. They would think the land was free and clear. Correct. And then he'd go to a third bank and get a mortgage. Do the same thing. So how much money was Andrew Kissel able to obtain by this kind of fraud? It was over $30 million.

I was impressed with this scheme in the simplicity, how easy it was to do. It was the era of easy money. The banks want to lend the money. They do. They want these deals to go through. They do. And when they think they have a viable, successful builder-borrower, they will fall over themselves to lend money.

This plan had to crash and burn at some point. Facing federal fraud charges, Andrew sought advice from attorney Phil Russell. He described to me what had gone on and I told him, yeah, you're in trouble. He was upset he was caught. No remorse, no self-flagellation, none of that. But Russell says Andrew did feel remorse and was willing to come clean. He knew it was wrong. Just not completely clean.

Wait a minute, so was Andrew Kissel trying to con the FBI? Yes. The FBI uncovered another multi-million dollar scam in another state. He was a serial fraudster. He just engaged in one fraud after another. This time it involved apartment complexes in New Jersey. Here, Andrew Kissel had ripped off his investors by forging their signatures, secretly selling the properties,

and pocketing all the profits. Some people put their entire retirement savings into this limited partnership, somebody put all their IRA money in. But in this scheme, the investors he was ripping off were people he knew. His father-in-law and dead brother's estate each invested half a million dollars. The people in New Jersey didn't know that these properties had been sold.

But what he did was he continued to pay them a quarterly dividend. And what was their reaction to find out that Andrew Kissel had been ripping them off all those years? Well, they felt totally, you know, betrayed. What kind of guy can do something like that? Just continually do it and go on with his life? A very troubled guy. While Andrew's material world was crumbling, his personal life was already in shambles. His wife Haley discovered he had forged her signature to get a fraudulent loan on their ski house.

He was cheating her and cheating on her with other women. She knew that he was having affairs. And she wanted him followed, according to private investigator Vito Colucci, who says he met with Haley a year before Andrew was murdered. I said, well, you know, Haley, I have to tell you, I've seen a lot of cases, I've seen a lot of couples go back together.

And she looked at me and she just said, I want him dead. I wish he was dead. Haley didn't need any Kleenex, trust me. She didn't need any Kleenex that day. Haley didn't hire Colucci, but in 2005, she sued Andrew for divorce and $7 million. In 2005, she sued Andrew for divorce and $7 million. There was no love lost there. This was not a friendly divorce. By the first weekend in April 2006, Andrew's family was gone. He was alone under house arrest,

wearing an electronic ankle bracelet, and just days away from admitting his guilt and going to prison for bank fraud. Everybody like him. Nobody want to talk to him anymore. Except for his loyal assistant of six years, Carlos Trujillo. Why did you stay with him? I love this guy and I owe a lot to him. He help me a lot. On Sunday, April 2nd, just before 6 p.m., Carlos went to see his boss.

And what was his mood? No, he's happy. Making him the last known person to see Andrew Kissel alive. Fourteen hours later, Kissel was found dead. Carlos, are you worried that if the police don't get a suspect, that at some point they may arrest you. Yeah, I worry every day. So worried, he hired attorney Lindy Urso. Andrew Kissel had a lot of enemies, but Carlos Shirley wasn't one of them.

He would have to be probably the coolest customer you'd ever see if he really had any involvement in this. He says he loved him, but, you know, friends sometimes kill each other, too. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was,

but also how outrageous it was. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free, with a 48-hour plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing The Best Idea Yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy

about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk-ters who brought them to life. Like did you know that Super Mario, the best selling video game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans. Discover the surprising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. This guy was a decent, hardworking guy. All the guy wanted to do was work. That's all he wanted to do. He's the person who would least want to see Andrew Kissel dead. Carlos Trujillo was the last known person to have seen Andrew Kissel dead. Carlos Trujillo was the last known person to have seen Andrew Kissel alive. So the Colombian immigrant, who was his driver

and confidant, became the prime suspect in his murder. Did you kill Andrew Kissel? No, I didn't. They decided on the Colombian helper early on and they reverse engineered their entire investigation to focus on him. Defense attorney Lindy Erso says Greenwich police didn't fully investigate other possible suspects like the dozens of wealthy investors swindled by Kissel. We know Haley Kissel's father was one of

the biggest losers in that scam he lost about a half a million dollars. And Haley herself had told people including her sister-in-law that she wanted her husband dead once they decided that the wife had an airtight alibi as they said they turned their attention to carlos and that's where it stayed carlos certainly seemed to have nothing to hide did the police ask for fingerprints yeah did they ask you for DNA? DNA. Did you give it to him? I gave it to him. He allowed investigators to search his car, his residence, a storage unit he had rented. He even took a polygraph, which he was told he failed. At this point, I'm feeling like a suspect, like a criminal. They treat me like a criminal. I thought Carlos was a very smart, calculating individual.

But you couldn't charge him? No. Lead investigators Pasqual Irafino and Pierangelo Corticelli lacked evidence, and the investigation stalled for more than a year. Prosecutor Paul Forensic. There was really no viable case against Carlos until Lenny Trujillo was uncovered and that broke the case. What broke the case was a new witness, Lenny Trujillo, a 21 year old petty thief and Carlos's own cousin. Lenny told

investigators that Carlos paid him $11,000 and a computer to commit a murder. He told us, hey, that computer came from Carlos Trujillo, that that computer was given to me as payment towards killing his boss. But why would Carlos Trujillo want to kill his boss? A bizarre theory was circulating that Andrew Kissel broke and headed to federal prison, enlisted his faithful driver to have him killed. A suicide for hire. One last scam so that Kissel's children could collect on his $15 million life insurance

policy. If Andrew Kissel had taken a shot, one shot to the head, I might think that there was some credence to that claim. Prosecutor Paul Forensic doesn't buy it at all. He points out that Andrew Kissel's hands and feet were tightly bound with plastic ties, that he had been stabbed five times. It was a painful death. No one would want to go the way he went. Forensic has no doubt that Carlos was involved. Andrew Kissel would not have let anyone in the house that he didn't know.

Whoever killed him, he knew. I have no doubt that it was Carlos Trujillo. That's why, says Detective Irofino, Andrew Kissel was blindfolded and gagged. It's a personal reason. You just don't want to hear him and you don't want to look into his eyes when you're killing him, because you usually know that person. .

Investigators still didn't know the motive, but they did have enough evidence. They arrested both Carlos and his cousin. . And finally, on November 30, 2010, four and a half years after Andrew Kissel was stabbed to death, Carlos Trujillo went on trial. He was charged with murder for killing Kissel and attempted murder for planning it. The star witness against him, his now 24-year-old cousin. How important is Leonard Trujillo to the state's case against Carlos? He is the state's case. We can't show you Lenny's

testimony. The judge wouldn't allow it to be videotaped. But his attorney, Mark Sherman, says Lenny only helped Carlos plan the murder. He didn't actually do the killing. Lenny had an alibi. He was at work very early that morning in Worcester, Mass., hours away from Greenwich, Connecticut. In return for his testimony, Lenny got a deal. 20 years in prison instead of life. Without Lenny Trujillo, I had no case against Carlos.

If he did not cooperate, Carlos was gonna walk out the door. Defense attorney, Lindy Urso, says having his own cousin testify against him puts Carlos in a very tough spot. It would take a minor miracle to overcome that hump with this 20-year stupid deal that his cousin took. He goes to trial and loses, he's gonna get life. The case against Carlos is circumstantial,

but damaging. They bought stuff, they planned it, they discussed it, money was exchanged. There were 52 phone calls between the cousins during a four and a half month period. They didn't have any interaction but for the planning and conspiracy of this murder. Lenny says he made two trips to Connecticut to meet Carlos,

and there are Amtrak and motel receipts. Attached to the guest card was an original receipt indicating that the room charge had been charged to a MasterCard in the name of Carlos Trujillo. MasterCard in the name of Carlos Trujillo. But why would Carlos use his own credit card if he was using this trip as part of a surveillance to plan a murder? People do stupid things all the time. Everybody makes a mistake when they're committing a crime. During one of those trips, Lenny says, they went to this Home Depot and bought plastic cable ties like this one.

This is one of those things that only the killer or killers would have known. And how close is this type of cable tie to what was used on Andrew Kissel? This is the exact same make model as the one used on Andrew Kissel. How would he have known all that? The fact that he was able to describe the cable ties and where they were bought was

major. And it turns out there may have been a motive after all. Carlos Trujillo had always been the trusted aide, living on the fringes of Kissel's lavish life. There is a wire transfer, funds transfer of $150,000, the account of Carlos A. Trujillo. Bank records show that when the feds froze all of Kissel's assets, Carlos and other Trujillo family members helped him launder money through their personal bank accounts. In the process, more than $200,000 of Andrew's money mysteriously disappeared.

Maybe the trusted aide wasn't so trustworthy. None of that money was found to have been returned to Andrew Kissel. He was murdered just four days before he was scheduled to formally plead guilty to bank fraud. Did Andrew Kissel threaten to turn Carlos into the feds? scheduled to formally plead guilty to bank fraud. Did Andrew Kissel threaten to turn Carlos into the feds if he didn't return the money? I firmly believe that the motive of Andrew most likely was gonna roll on Carlos' entire family tree. And you think it was money that was the motive?

Well, money and of course the fear of going to jail, sure. People have killed for a lot less. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still have heard it. It just happens to all of them. 10 that would still have heard it. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to

report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn trials I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Attorney Lindy Urso has been fighting for Carlos Trujillo for more than four years. And he's feeling the pressure. Obviously, you know, I'm up against it, but I still feel good. At the end of the day, it's just another trial against it, but I still feel good. At the end of the day, it's just another trial.

Yeah, but what's at stake here? The stakes are huge, but the stakes are always huge. I mean, whether it's 15 years, 20 years, or life, I mean, it's a long time for somebody. But the pressure, the stakes are that much higher when you really believe your client's innocent. Since there's no physical evidence tying Carlos to Andrew Kissel's murder, the state is counting on their star witness. The biggest evidence against Carlos is Lenny.

That's the only evidence against Carlos. And Urso says Lenny Trujillo is a liar who made up this entire story. Do you believe Carlos even attempted to hire him at all? Do you believe Carlos? Not in the least. Not for a split second. Urso claims Lenny implicated Carlos to keep his family from being harassed by law enforcement. But prosecutor Paul Forensic scoffs at that. Why would you implicate yourself in a murder? Why would anyone do that?

I believe Carlos was involved. Steve Garfinkel, who now handles investigations for an international security company, says Lenny's story is too detailed to be made up. It's a believable story. And generally, believable stories are true. Why would he plead guilty and agree to go to jail for 20 years if it was not true that's a heck of a hurdle to overcome so to establish reasonable doubt urso plans to poke holes in the story and make the jury question lenny's credibility

he takes a little bit of the truth and he spins it into a fantastical story. Those 52 phone calls between the cousins? Records show it was Lenny making most of those calls. If Carlos was hiring him to do the murder, you would expect Carlos would be the one calling him. But what about Lenny's most damaging claim? That he and Carlos bought plastic ties at Home Depot. It turns out the receipt doesn't match the date

that Lenny told police he was with Carlos in Connecticut. This guy has no credibility. I mean, zero. He lies and lies and lies. If Lenny were lying, there's no way he would know all of this information. There were too many specifics that he gave us, which were never reported, which he could not have possibly known. After a 10-day trial...

Now the heart starts beating because this man's life is in our hands. The case goes to the jury. We go around the room and say, what do you think and where are you? And everybody would give their, you know, we would take votes all the time. Guilty. It all came down to Lenny's testimony. And if who believed Lenny's testimony, who didn't? Not guilty. It was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the two of them

purchased those zip ties. Not guilty. I live in Norwalk. We own cable ties. How do I not know that that's not me buying it that day? There was no proof that that was actually Carlos buying them. Guilty. Did he just make up this story? Plus he and Carlos while they're related, they haven't talked to each other in years. And all of a sudden, they make 52 phone calls together. I personally firmly believe that something was going on, that they were plotting something.

This guy Lenny, he pled guilty to this crime. And if he wasn't involved at all, why would he sign that paper? Why would he say, OK, I'm guilty. Put me in jail for 20 years. When it comes down to it, it's not about what you believe or what you even feel in your gut. The evidence has to be there to support beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have to apply the law. After four days, the jury finally comes back. The first charge, murder, could send Carlos to prison for life. In the case of St. Versus Trujillo, have you agreed upon a verdict as to count to? We have.

Being the foreman, he had me stand up and Carlos is right there and the guy is just... and I'm trying not to look at him. We saw the hands drop and the hands started shaking. You know, we knew that it was going to be to look at him. We saw the hands drop, and the hands started shaking. You know, we knew that it was going to be very emotional for him. Saint versus Trujillo. What say you, Mr. Foreperson? I intend to not guilty.

Not guilty of murder. Carlos finally cracked, showed some real emotion. You told Carlos it was going to take a minor miracle to get him off on these charges. Is that what happened? Not quite. I wouldn't call it a minor miracle. I would say it was when we pulled one out against some heavy odds, but I don't think it's a minor miracle.

There's still the charge of attempted murder, but on this, the jurors were deadlocked. I think the evidence is not there as it was presented which means carlos isn't off the hook yet paul forensic wants to retry him i never want to give up and i felt that we did have a strong case on the attempt but there will be no new trial three months after carlos was acquitted a murder the man who said he loved Andrew Kissel agrees to plead guilty to attempted murder. Carlos Trujillo has been saying for five years he was innocent, and then he goes in front of a judge and takes a guilty plea.

Yeah, well, he's still saying he's innocent. I mean, it's clearly just a decision of practicality. It would have been a crazy decision to go to trial. If convicted, Carlos Trujillo faced 20 years. He's agreed to take six years in jail with credit for time served. Which means he'll only spend three more years in prison. You know, he got off easy, but he didn't get away with murder. He is now a convicted felon.

So we get satisfaction from that. There is justice. Andrew Kissel, who had so much in life, died with nothing. Not even all the answers. Do you think we'll ever really know what happened that night? No, I really don't know. It's still kind of a mystery. It is a mystery.

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