48 Hours - Hunting Down Mr Wright

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

The half-century long pursuit of George Wright, a convicted murderer who escaped prison and hijacked a plane, led authorities around the world seeking his capture. “48 Hours" Correspondent Susan Spencer reports. This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 6/29/2013. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays, and stream on demand on Paramount+. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wow. House has definitely seen better days. This is the window I stood in when I waved goodbye to my dad the last time. Growing up, my mother never talked about the fear she felt while trying to raise her family. She remained strong for us. I had this little two-wheeler. I ended up down there, and I almost in the road,

and I said, Daddy, where were you? And he said, you did it. My grandfather, Walter Patterson, was murdered. One of the people who is responsible for doing it is still not paying for what he has done. For 17 years, I've worked on a case involving a fugitive named George Wright. My father was brutally beaten and shot

in a robbery of his gas station. It haunts me to this day. It all started right there in 1960. when Mr. Walter Patterson was closing up his gas station. Mr. Patterson was a war hero. Combat veteran World War II received the Bronze Star. The ironic thing was that he came through the war only to have this happen to him.

The nutty of the incident, two young men came right through that door with loaded weapons. George Wright and his partner said, this is a robbery, get him up. Walter Patterson put up Walter Patterson put up a heck of a fight. He was beaten so severely. He was unrecognizable.

George Wright was caught two days later. The guy gets convicted, sentenced to prison. We would think the case would be closed. But he escapes from prison. He hijacks an airplane. He threatens to kill people. A Delta Airlines jet was taken over by eight- Fled the country, became a fugitive.

George Wright has been on a run for 41 years. Essentially, he just vanished. Wright has an uncanny ability to escape. I hope he's looking over his shoulder, wondering who's a few steps behind him. My partners and I are determined to be the ones to apprehend George Wright. And keep working his case

until he's back behind bars and the state in New Jersey. I got a phone call that it's 100% your guy. We had photos, we had fingerprints. We knew that he had false teeth. We knew he had scars. You could see a scar on the forehead. That's this right here.

That's correct. Our job, our responsibility is to find this man. He is a very smart adversary. From old photos to artist sketches. You have no idea which of these looks the most like George Wright. Oh. This is very creepy. Even to a lifelike plaster bust they created.

That is an age-enhanced bust. It's almost as if the fugitive George Wright himself were watching them. That's how he got away. Taunting, the three-man task force that's been on a man-hunt to find him, around the world and across the decades. This is what this person would look like 40 years later. That's correct.

For R.J. Gallagher, recently retired from the FBI, Rick Cope of the U.S. Marshals and Dan Klotz of the New Jersey Department of Corrections, the saga begins with right. rights involvement in the murder of war hero Walter Patterson in 1962. And right here, there was a big tree, and next to it, Daddy had built us a sandbox. He hurt his family. He's got to pay for what he did. The crime is senseless. There are triggers throughout the year. His birthday, the day he got shot, the day he died. This is the house that I grew up in spent my early years here.

Today, a lot of her past is boarded up and paved over. And for decades, Walter Patterson's daughter, Anne, tried to keep it that way. That was fun. Her daughters, Terry and Jackie, never actually knew their grandfather and never knew why. It was never spoken of in the house at all. We knew it was a quiet subject for a reason. and not to bring it up. Fifty years after his murder...

I welcome Ann Patterson, who along with her family, have suffered irreparable harm from the brutal violence committed against her beloved father by George Wright. Walter Patterson's granddaughters are spearheading their mother's fight to finally bring George Wright to justice. My father was robbed, brutally beaten,

and shot in his gas station in Wall Township, New Jersey. I was 14 years old. The nightmare was just beginning. Her whole timeline of her life just shifted. Anne was born in 1947. Her father, Walter, served on the front lines in World War II. Coming home with a bronze star. Back in New Jersey, he opened a small gas station, abandoned but still standing today. After dinner, on November 23, 1962, he left home and headed back to work.

And I did what I always did. I stood in the window and I went like this and he waved to me. That was the last time I saw him alive. After spending 17 of his 25 years at the FBI on this case, R.J. Gallagher knows every detail of what happened next. It was a simple robbery of a gas station. Just after 9 p.m., a black and white sedan pulled into Patterson's station. Two men went inside.

A pair of short order cooks named Walter McGee, then 22. I had a gun. I had it in my waist, so 32. And George Wright, 19. Wright had a sawed-off 22 rifle. They demanded Walter Patterson's money, all $70 of it. Here's a guy that fought for his country. Now somebody's coming in and trying to take his piece of

piece of America. It's what he fought for. And he put up a hell of a fight this time, too. According to R.J. Gallagher, the gunman beat Patterson savagely. Walter Patterson made a launch for me. We got the tussling. And they started hitting him about the head with their weapons. They knocked him to the ground.

And I pulled up my gun. Nobody was thinking about going. They could shoot nobody. You know, I think my mind just froze up on me. In his decades as a fugitive, George Wright has been as elusive to reporters as to authorities, though he did speak to Mike Finkel for a GQ magazine exclusive titled Uncatchable. Finkel taped the interview, in which Wright paints himself as an almost innocent bystander. And you probably just for standing there with my mouth open probably.

Did you remember seeing any blood or anything like that? No, I didn't even look at the guy, I tell you true. I was shaking like crazy. Then McGee also, he had shot the guy, didn't know whether it had killed him or not. Police found bullets and casings but couldn't say for sure how many shots were fired or by whom. For Walter Patterson, it didn't matter. It went into his abdomen. It went through his kidney and his liver, and the bullet never exited.

The robbers fled. Minutes later, Anne's daughter Terry says, passing motorists found Patterson, He was beaten so severely conscious. He was beaten so severely. And then it took, like, what, 10 or 12, like numerous hours to try to piece together his skull. Two days later, Walter Patterson died, but not before describing his attackers and their car.

It's amazing that he could give that much information. He definitely helped to solve his own homicide. Police soon. found the car, and within 48 hours they had the driver, along with the two gunmen, Walter McGee and George Wright. To avoid the death penalty, both Wright and McGee pled no contest to murder. The fatal bullet matched Walter McGee's gun. He got life. George Wright got 15 to 30 years.

I felt safe then because then they were in jail. That night in jail, the reality of it hit me. Men on 15 miles from 30 years in New Jersey State Prison. Just saying that at the end of the world. For Ann Patterson, too, it felt like the end of the world. You look at the clock and write, Daddy should be coming home, and he's not coming home, and you've got to remind yourself of that. You still call him Daddy.

He will always be my daddy, because there's a part of me that's still 14 years old. I probably was like a little soldier or a zombie all through high school. I don't have a lot of memories of it. I just did what I had to do and immersed myself in my schoolwork. And there's school pictures and so forth. After that point, the pictures kind of stop. The family did stop. Her family ended at that point.

Living moment to moment, she struggled through high school and gave up any hope of college. Then one August day, nearly eight years after the... the murder, Anne's past caught up with her. And my aunt, Jenny, called me up and said, Anne, George Wright has escaped. She said, lock your doors. And that was only the beginning. Prison breaks, hijackings, fleeing from country to country to country.

It's a roller coaster ride. You know, you just wonder what's next, what's the next twist, what's the next turn. It's not just that one person gets shot. That shot reverberates through everybody else. My grandfather never got to see his daughters grow up. He never got to see them get married. He never got to watch them have their children, and that was because of George Wright. By the summer of 1970, George Wright had served nearly eight years of his 15 to 30-year sentence

for his involvement in Walter Patterson's murder. When I walked into this jail and they closed them doors behind me and just saying like that door, I was closed off of the world. Despite his crimes in those GQ magazine tapes, Wright portrays himself as a victim of society and a champion of social justice. Society was saying, hey, you did that against the law. But people all through history that have been struggling against the power structure have always been called criminals or outlaws. So, at that time, it looks like George Wright is going to be in prison at least 15 years.

But Wright had a very different plan. After serving part of his time in a maximum security facility, George Wright was transferred to a minimum security prison here in southern New Jersey. At the time, there were no bars, no razor wire, and no problem was simply walking away. Just after the 11 p.m. bed check on August 22nd, 1970, that's exactly what he and three others did. We walked off in the night.

There were guards around. Armed with a few tools and an audacious plan, they weren't on foot for long. They decided to take the warden's car and flee to Atlantic City. They hotwired the warden's car. Yes. I read that you stole the warden's car. Is that true?

I don't make no comment on that. I think that is funny. I bet he didn't. Police found the car. and quickly recaptured two of the men. But George Wright and the fourth inmate had vanished. These people are walking the streets. You don't know where they're going to go.

As the years turned to decades, with George Wright still on the loose, Anne Patterson lost hope that authorities ever would find him. So she was shocked when 24 years after the prison escape, FBI agent R.J. Gallagher called to introduce himself. He was genuinely interested in my father's case. What reassurances could you give her at that point? I said I would work as hard as we could and do what we could to find this guy.

He told her it was a long shot. The Bureau had destroyed the Patterson case file long ago, and Gallagher didn't even know if Wright was still alive. So where do you start? Friends, acquaintances, relatives. We checked phones, we checked emails. There was nothing that was off the table. Suspecting Wright was overseas, Gallagher sent Interpol the fingerprints taken at his 1962 arrest.

He also, digitally age-enhanced Wright's mugshot, to show what he might look like years later. About halfway through this, the U.S. Marshals and the Department of Corrections joined, and we formed a nice team. It was the perfect storm of investigators. Rick Cope and Dan Clotz were on a fugitive task force also looking at the case, when they, teamed up with Gallagher in 2002. So we only had very, very minimal information on the actual original crime. Following the smallest of leads,

often working nights and weekends. Nine o'clock at night, 10 o'clock a night. Hey, look at this, look at that. They learned that after his escape, George Wright spent time in Atlantic City, then New York, once working, as of all things for a fugitive, a male model. Until I realized what I was doing,

because I was on the run at the day. time. I ain't having your picture taken. That was the end of my modeling career. He made his way to this house in Detroit. And there was a bunch of people living there. It was like a family, so to speak. The day was in Detroit that we became affiliated

with the Black Panthers. The Panthers had burst onto the scene in 1966, with a radical philosophy for the time, revolution through militant action. Right, along with four. others hatched a plan to leave white America behind. At the time, we wanted to become more active and distraught so that people would see that we were for real. And make an outrageous statement in the process.

A Delta Airlines jet from Detroit to Miami was taken over by eight passengers. July 31st, 1972. Delta Airlines Flight 841 was boarding passengers in Detroit headed for Miami. Captain William May remembers seeing a priest. He gestured towards me with his Bible as he went back towards his seat. I said, well, a priest, nice to have him aboard.

We won't have any trouble with him. He won't have any trouble with this guy. That Bible was hollowed out with a handgun inside, undetected by the lax security of the day. Mid-flight, Captain May came out of the lavatory to find a passenger pointing a gun at him. And back in the cockpit was a second gunman, that innocent-looking priest.

The priest had this girl, a flight attendant, around like this, where the pistol pointed to her head, and the pistol was cocked. And I said, look, uncoct that gun, we can talk. I said, now what do you want? He says, we want a million dollars, and we want to go to Alger's. And I said, Algears, I said, where the hell is Algears?

I said, this airplane won't fly to Alger. At 41, May was still a junior pilot. He'd never even flown all the way across the ocean. The plane taxi to a remote area of Miami International Airport. One of the men was dressed as a priest. Investigators soon identified the priest as George Wright. Fueled by a mixture of radical politics and rage against the system, George Wright was about to become one of the most wanted fugitives,

in America. Captain May made the announcement. That's when people start screaming. He terrorized them people on that plane. You don't bring a gun on an airplane and expect something good to happen. There was another airplane hijacking today. A Delta Airlines jet from Detroit to Miami

was taken over by eight passengers. The hijackers are described as three men, two women, and three children. One of the men was dressed as a priest. When I saw the hijacking on TV, I thought, oh, those poor passengers. Ann Patterson was watching the news that July day in 1972 and soon found out who the lead hijacker was.

I remember how afraid I was the night that my father was shot, so I wondered if they were gonna come out of it alive themselves. When Delta 841 from Detroit landed in Miami, the gun-toting priest made the hijacker's demands crystal clear. CBS News cameras were there. The hijackers demanded $1 million in small bills, the largest amount ever in an airplane ransom. You now understand that this is deadly serious.

Yes, they really seem that determined. Determination you can hear on the cockpit recordings Captain William May identifies as from that day. More than 40 years later, May returned with us to the Miami airport and recalled how hard it was to be cool. What did they say would happen if you didn't go ahead and do what they said? That's when he said he would start throwing a body out the door every minute at the 2 o'clock.

Adding to the surreal atmosphere, Wright's team of hijackers insisted that an FBI agent, agent deliver the million dollars to the plane and that he be naked. So they want to make sure that the FBI agent who's giving the money has no weapon? No weapon, exactly. Captain May thought that was a bit much and helped convince Wright and the others to let the agent at least wear a bathing suit. We didn't want violence and that with short pants, we would ensure that they had no weapons and that exactly why we did it.

What happened when the money came to the plane? They brought it up by rope. Passengers were terrified. People were definitely panicking. Once the money was transferred, the hijackers released the 86 passengers unharmed, including 25-year-old Elaine Attaver. Well, when we got off the plane,

we were all standing out, like in the middle of the runway. People were crying, and it was very emotional because now we're off, but they're onto their next phase. of this ordeal. We didn't know if they would ever make it alive. Did the hijackers say where they wanted to go? Did you talk with them at all? No, uh-uh. Stewardess said they wanted to go to Algiers. Algeria. At the time, it was a haven for exiled Black Panthers and other militants. The hijackers were now frantic to get there, with a million dollars in cash and seven Delta

crew members in tow. The buses drove away, and right, he kept, he would, he would, put that pistol right in my neck and said, get going, get going. But before they got underway to Algeria, the plane had to stop in Boston for extra fuel and a navigator. They made him stripped down as well. More than 50 FBI agents and state police were staked out at the Boston airport. George Wright kept a gun on Captain May and ordered him to take off again. So the plane headed out over the dark Atlantic Ocean. for a flight into the unknown.

Did you have any extensive conversations with any of them? Not at that point. So we're done talking now. We're done talking. We're going to Algeria's now. Before landing, the captain tried to reason with George Wright one last time. I said, look down there. I said, I don't know how bad things were in Detroit,

but I said, you're not going to like it here. I can tell you that. As he taxied to a stop, Captain May remembers he wasn't too crazy about it himself. All these guys sprang out of the bushes with rifles pointed at the cockpit. I thought, hmm, who's side of they on here? Algerian officials granted asylum to the hijackers who promptly held a press conference with George Wright center stage. The Algerians soon returned the plane and the million dollars. Wright and company disappeared into the sprawling city.

This is like the beginning of terrorism. I remember the shock. I mean, everybody was shocked of this. Shocked especially, Anne Patterson remembers, because she just assumed that once Wright's identity was known, he'd be caught, period. I thought, they're going to get him now. They're finally going to catch him, and this is going to be it. The others were caught and imprisoned about four years later in France.

But George Wright would remain uncatchable for four more decades. It's crazy. It's just one thing after another that he got away with. It was a game for him. In part, by hiding in the last place on earth anyone would think to look. And by living an extraordinary double life. Could this be the same person? It just doesn't seem fervitable.

Do you have a dark curiosity? Heart starts pounding, horrors, hauntings, and mysteries is a weekly podcast hosted by me, Kailen Moore. Each week, I'll take you on a dark journey through terror. terrifying true urban legends, bizarre true crime cases, chilling tales of backwoods horror and more. So if you're looking to join a passionate community of The Darkly Curious, check out Heart Starts pounding on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, stay curious.

He was brazen and intelligent. He was intelligent. George Wright left Algeria not long after the hijacking and became the invisible man. He's a bad criminal. I don't know how he keeps ducking. Successfully ducking by drifting around France, Germany and Portugal, his pursuers say, until he found the perfect place to hide. Investigators now know that in the early 1980s, George Wright left Western Europe and came here to the tiny West African country of Guinea-Bissau. Believe it or not, he appears to have come to do good deal.

and help the poor. I began to get into the scheme of things after I met people. I was invited to their homes, to their parties and stuff like that, and I began to know people. Doesn't seem favorable. When aid worker Curtis Reed arrived in 1989, he says Wright was helping dig wells for villagers in Guinea-Bissau, whose Marxist government was then decidedly sympathetic

to revolutionary ideas. How did he say he had come to be in Guinea Basal. That this was a place that he wanted to be. And... Humanitarian that he was. There was nothing to contradict that. He fooled a lot of people.

And then get air was fun. I had a lot of fun. I didn't even consider it work. Reed says Wright made himself indispensable. He was the fixer, the facilitator, the person to go to if you needed an extra propane gas bottle, find a plumber or an electrician. You called him a model citizen.

For my money, you know, he was that. A model citizen who married the daughter of an influential Portuguese general and had two kids. He was a very dedicated father and spouse. A very strong family man. I was totally floored by the revelations that he had been involved with a murder, he had hijacked a plane, that he was on the lamb. It was inconceivable. I knew that there was this robbery.

I knew that a person got killed. I knew that he felt guilty. Hannah Steggeman, a German who ran a local development project, claims George Wright's criminal past was an open secret in Guinea-Bissau. Wright lived there for 13 years, eventually getting citizenship under a different name. He was always the black American who found asylum in Guinea-Bissau. and he was seen as a kind of hero. Apparently doing good works.

Very good, very good. This video, taken when Wright was a fugitive in Africa, shows him on the job Stegman hired him for, a project to help fishermen bring their catch to this market. Everybody knew George Wright. He seemed a very pleasant, nice young man. Everybody, including John Blacken, who was U.S. ambassador to Guinea-Bissau from 1986 to 1989.

I would suspect that I invited him to the Fourth of July party. Are you a little appalled by it today? Well, it's hard to be appalled by somebody that seemed to have a good reputation locally, and you had no inkling of what his past was. Even 30 years later, it isn't hard finding people here who have nice things to say about George Wright. He lived right here. Do you know who that is? Yes, he's George Wright, my friend.

He did a lot of basketball training and kids admired him. So, this is where you played. Pedro Delmane says the American he knew as Jack taught youngsters in the area a lot about basketball and about life. Did you go over to his house a lot as a kid? Every day? I think the people were getting beside that feel that he was a good man. They were fooled.

They didn't really realize what he was capable of doing. The real George Wright, in our opinion, is a George Wright who acted so violently here. George Wright left Guinea-Bissau in 1993. At the time, investigators had no idea he'd ever been there to begin with. He did help the people in Africa, and that's great for them. But so what, says Anne Patterson's daughter, Terry. That doesn't change what he did to my mother and her family. What he did, say,

Terry and Jackie makes their mother fearful to this day. She says she doesn't go to gas stations. She doesn't. She doesn't go to hospitals. She does not. My mother has 12 grandchildren and did not go to the hospital for the births of any of them. She physically is unable to step foot into a hospital. The room starts spinning.

The smell of the hospital brings her back to that time when she was 14 years old. That there is a price to pay for what he's done. You can't start over. until you pay your debt. Then in the fall of 2011, Anne Patterson learned it might be payback time. RJ said to me, just stick around the house for the next couple of weeks.

He said we might be on to something. RJ Gallagher, Rick Cope, and Dan Klotz had been locked in this cat and mouse game for more than a decade. Put yourself in this situation. It was your father. You would hope that there's people out there that will never give up.

When almost 50 years after Walter Patterson's murder, the trio tracking George Wright finally hit pay dirt. Got a phone call that it's 100% your guy. The police started following him from his residence. They got him to this location. That's when they approached him. Tell me what unfolded here. This is where the Portuguese police arrested George Wright. On September 26, 2011, George Wright,

George Wright's life as an international fugitive came to an unceremonious end. An American fugitive is captured overseas. When police cornered him in this cafe near Lisbon. I walk out of the door, these guys surrounds me. How many? About six or seven of them. Call me by my name. He'd come to Portugal in 1993 from Africa, where he had changed his name,

to Jose Luis Jorge dos Santos. Now 68, a handyman and painter, living with his family in this tiny coastal town, he even had a Facebook page. So a print from his original arrest matches a print that the Portuguese have unfiled. Yes. But in terms of what led you to ask the Portuguese to match this print? Good teamwork. Phone taps, those things? We can't discuss it.

I'd love to tell you, we just can't do it. You're just not going to go there. We're not going to go there. After 17 years on the case, R.J. Gallagher had retired just six weeks before the arrest. But Rick Cope and Dan Clots were at the Portuguese police station when Wright was brought in for questioning. So he walked by you. You looked at this guy that you've been looking for for almost a decade. What went through your mind?

He looked very angry. which was very rewarding to me personally. One of the question was, where had I been before I came here? I told him to get him south. And where you been before that? I said in France. Then they asked me with about Algeus. And I said, okay, let's put the cars on the table.

He readily admitted he was George Wright. I did not kill anyone. And soon asked for a lawyer. Back in New Jersey, FBI agents gave Ann Patterson the news she thought. thought she might never hear. I was outside hanging up clothes, and this car pulled in. And I thought, this is it. And he said, Ann, we got him.

We got it. It's shock. I mean, it's just shock. It is relief. But the Patterson's relief quickly turned to outrage and astonishment, when incredibly, after more than 40 years as a fugitive, George Wright was set free.

Oh, man. Just days after his arrest. Do you think you should be first? punished for anything you've done? What do you think? No. I'm not punishing itself. The Portuguese courts twice dismissed American demands for extradition, ruling

that despite his phony identification, Wright was in fact a Portuguese citizen now. And by their law, they were not obligated to turn him over. I did not understand how it could be possible. nothing was going to get done legally. That little smile on his face and all those pictures in the newspaper, that doesn't cut it for me.

It's crazy. He's pretty much getting away with all of it. He did tell me about being in jail. First, I thought they was just, you know, pulling my leg. Wright's wife says her husband is well-liked and known for his devotion to charity and to the church. She spoke to AP Television in the picturesque village they now call home. He regrets the choices he has made.

I ask God to forgive me for even being involved. And I think God has forgiven me. I really don't think a leper changes his spots. If he wasn't a killer, he never would have picked up the weapon and gone in there. So as far as you're concerned, George Wright is as guilty of murder as the guy who actually fired that bullet. Yeah. Because at any point he could have turned away. I accompanied someone that committed a crime, and they sentenced me on that particular aspect.

Though he disputes some of the details of that night, George Wright does express remorse for what he did. I would like to apologize to her, and I'd hope for that she would forgive me. He did, really, I would. But he still insists that Anne is blaming him for what he didn't do. I really cannot understand why she would be so angry with me today. With me personally. I didn't kill the guy. Like Wright, the man whose bullet did kill Patterson disputes authorities' account of the crime.

But Walter McGee is decidedly not apologetic. I'm apologizing for nothing that happened 50, 40, 50 years ago. After nearly 15 years ago, after nearly 15 years, in prison, McGee is out on parole today, and thinks Wright beat the rap. If George Wright was sitting there right now, I would punch him in his face. His gun didn't kill him, but he was standing ready in there with me. Under U.S. law, Wrights as guilty as if he'd fired the shot. Last summer, with no obvious way to bring him to justice, three generations of Patterson's

made an appeal on Capitol Hill. How are you? R.J. Gallagher at their side. The failure of extradition makes a mockery of the crime against my father. He would never be able to walk his daughters down the aisle on their wedding day. Or enjoy the birth of their children. This is unjust. This is a travesty. A former State Department official shocked the hearing by suggesting a radical solution. Such a snatching right as he's going about his day-to-day business.

and then bringing him to the United States to face justice. Oh, he ended up in a very nice part of the world. The growing attention since his arrest, apparently has spooked George Wright. Yes, I'm trying to reach George Wright, please. My name's Susan Spencer. I'm from CBS. Susan Spencer from CBS? Can you at least just talk to me?

Over a period of 10 days, we kept watch on his house. Seems pretty deserted. and realized that remarkably George Wright had vanished again. He appears to have gone back into hiding. Ever since the hearing in Washington. Ah. I think that he might have gotten frightened. Mm-hmm. Retired FBI agent R.J. Gallagher, whom we brought to Portugal,

says if they can't get him back, the idea of George Wright running scared is fine with him. Living on the lamb again, and he's looking up. again and he's looking over his shoulder he's waiting for the shoe to drop. I don't think he should feel comfortable ever. Whether or not the past still haunts George Wright, Anne Patterson refuses to let the past haunt her anymore. A lot of times I would think what would daddy want me to do? He would not want me to sit in the corner crying until death overtook me. Who is ridiculous? If I had life, I should live it and live it the best way that I can.

If your father had lived, he would be 92 years old. What do you think he would think as far as how you've all turned out? I think he'd be proud of us. And specifically of you? I hope so.