48 Hours - Missing Molly

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

In June 2000, Molly Bish disappeared from the local swimming hole where she worked as a lifeguard in her hometown of Warren, Mass. Nearly three years later, former police officer, Tim McGuigan, helped to uncover evidence that led to the discovery of Molly’s body. “48 Hours" correspondent Susan Spencer reports. This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 8/18/2004. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays, and stream on demand on Paramount+.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial, and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. It was 1989 in Titusville, Florida. Kim Halleck said she and her ex-boyfriend Chip Flynn were kidnapped and attacked at gunpoint. Kim fled the scene, but Chip didn't make it out alive. Did you kill Chip Flynn? No, ma'am. Crosley Green has lived more than half his life behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit. I'm Erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most, involving an eyewitness account that doesn't quite make sense. A sister testifying against a brother.

They always say lies. You can't remember lies. A lack of physical evidence and questions about whether Crosley Green was accused, arrested and convicted because he's black. Just because a white female says a black man has committed a crime, we take that as gospel. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crosley Green, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. A special 48 Hours Mystery. What's bigger in life than getting a predator off the street before you grab somebody else? Molly Bish was a lifeguard at the local swimming pond

when she vanished. First aid kit was wide open. Her towel was draped over the back of the chair. But there was no Molly. What she said to me was, I love you, Mom. And that was the last time I seen her. It triggered a massive search. I feel a sense of responsibility to be out here.

The police even looked at our family. As Susan Spencer reports, after three years, there were still no answers. The state police are working around the clock on this, okay? Then, this disgraced ex-cop got involved. If they want to label me as a cowboy, a rogue, they have a right to that opinion. I applauded his efforts. Finally, a break in the case.

That's where I found it. It could be a major break in the search for Molly Bish. Can he solve this mystery? There's real evil out there. There's evil out there. Missing Molly. I'm Leslie Stahl. When a child goes missing, you do anything and everything the police ask you to do. Because getting the word out in those first hours can be critical to solving the case.

But when hours turn into days and weeks or even months and years, there's desperation and a willingness to look anywhere for answers. John and Maggie Bish need answers. They have been willing to work with or without the police to find out what happened to Molly. Tonight, Susan Spencer is on the trail of Molly Bish in one little town that's become home to a large web of suspicion. We're still a safe, small, central Massachusetts community filled with very kind and generous people. From a distance, the town of Warren, Massachusetts looks like a slice of Norman Rockwell's America. Nestled in the woods of Worcester County, Warren has two gas stations, one traffic light, and no cell phone service. But remarkably, it is here in this Walden-like setting that one of the biggest mysteries in Massachusetts history began years ago. Now there's no real signs here for the beach, but it actually rides right through a neighborhood.

On the morning of June 27, 2000, Maggie Bish was in the car with her 16-year-old daughter, Molly, on the way to Cummins Pond, the local swimming hole. Just a week before, Molly had started a summer job as a lifeguard there. This was her eighth day and she was just really excited about it. They arrived just before 10 o'clock. We pulled into the parking lot here and what she said to me was, I love you mom. And that was the last time I seen her. Maggie watched her daughter walk toward the beach before she drove away. And there was not a vehicle in this parking lot. This parking lot was empty when you left.

Yes. About 20 minutes later... Got here about 10.20. Sandra Woodworth arrived at the pond with her kids. First aid kit was wide open. Backpack was on the bench. Her towel was draped over the back of the chair. Her sandals were in front. And her Poland Springs water bottle was on the right heel.

But there was no Molly. Another hour passed. Molly's boss, Parks Commissioner Ed Fett, then showed up and realized Molly wasn't there. He also noticed her sandals and the opened first aid kit, which he closed. I waited around. Nobody showed up up so I called the police. Eventually the Warren police arrived but by the time they called Maggie Bish Molly had been missing for over three hours. I said this doesn't make any sense.

If up to that point the local police seem to show no great sense of urgency, well, it's understandable. In the vast majority of missing persons cases, the missing person wants to stay missing. And police suspected that Molly had simply abandoned her post to go and hang out with her friends. No big emergency. But for people who knew Molly, that sounded almost impossible. She never would just leave her job. We knew it. We knew. And I kept saying something is very wrong. 16-year-old Molly was John and Maggie Bish's third and youngest child. She just completed

her junior year of high school. You know, our kids, it wasn't easy for them in schools. They had to work hard. And Molly was on the honor roll the whole year. She never skipped school. You know our kids it wasn't easy for them in schools they had to work hard and Molly was on the honor roll the whole year she never skipped school. Her mother Maggie teaches elementary school her father John is a probation officer at a local courthouse. She was heavily involved in school with sports with her friends. She was the one person who like everyone loved like she's goofy. You hear her coming down the hallway. You'd always know when she was in the room. A varsity athlete, Molly had attended the prom with her boyfriend, Steven Lucas. We got her this beautiful dress and she looked beautiful.

And like her older siblings, John and Heather, Molly was no stranger to work. This is a girl who gave up her Saturdays at 16 to go train to become a lifeguard. She took her work very seriously. There's not a doubt in my mind that she would have done anything to jeopardize that. Later that afternoon, it finally became clear to police that Molly wasn't with her boyfriend or with any of her buddies. Soon, the state police took over the investigation. Over the next few days, they launched a massive search of the pond and of the surrounding area. Take your time! Take your time!

Working under Worcester County District Attorney John Conte. The state police are working around the clock on this, okay? We're looking for a 16-year-old. Her name's Molly Inbisch. She's the lifeguard up at the town beach. She was last seen yesterday morning at 9.30. Aiding the search, a battalion of volunteers from the local area. We've got over 200 men and women who are here searching. I just want to find her. I just really want to find her.

While the Boston media swarmed the story... You see pictures of her and you're reminded every second, where is she? The Bishes were lost in a never-never land of fear and grief and shock. You're breathing, but you're not alive. You're walking and you can't make any sense of the world that you trusted one day before. You don't sleep. You don't eat. You could hear the helicopters going over.

You could hear the search dogs. Search dogs were able to follow Molly's scent from the pond of this trail to a nearby cemetery, but they found nothing. After one of the biggest searches in Massachusetts history, the active physical search is pretty much done, the Bish family still had no answers. I could read in their eyes they wanted to bring Molly home so bad, and they couldn't. All they had was the growing realization their youngest daughter had been abducted. Can you safely say at this point

that you don't think that Molly left a room, if you will? I think that's a very fair statement. You can lose your keys, and you can lose your glasses, but how in America do you lose your child? The investigation is being focused right here in Warren, Massachusetts. The police aggressively questioned anyone connected to Molly. Police even looked at our family. They polygraphed and later cleared Molly's boyfriend, Stephen Lucas.

They also questioned Molly's boss, Ed Fett, who had failed to contact police immediately. Basically, I have nothing to hide, so I try to be cooperative in every way. The list went on. We're focusing on about six or seven different individuals at the present time. But while investigators focused on local residents... They're all from the area. They're all from the area. John and Maggie Bish were forming a theory of their own. I don't believe any of these people around here were involved in this. This is the work of a professional who knew what he was doing. And it wasn't just a theory. Maggie Bish believes exactly 24 hours before Molly disappeared, she may well have seen

the man who abducted her. He stared at me. He glared at me. Fans of 48 Hours know there are plenty of mysteries out there to solve, but where your income disappears to is probably not one of them. Costs on daily essentials like gas, groceries, and dining add up quickly, but there's good news. The free Upside app can give you cash back on all those things, with up to 25 cents per gallon back on gas and up to 25% back at restaurants and grocery stores. and up to 25% back at restaurants and grocery stores. Download the free Upside app now to earn cash back every time you buy gas. Use promo code 48HOURS to get an extra 25 cents per gallon on your first tank.

You can cash out anytime right to your bank, PayPal, or a gift card for Amazon and other brands. Just download the free Upside app and use promo code 48HOURS for a $0.25 per gallon bonus on your first tank. That's the number, 4-8-HOURS for $0.25 per gallon bonus. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military, and when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. I can see her face. I can smell her.

I can see her face. I can smell her. Two and a half years after she vanished, Molly Bish is still a living presence for her brother and sister, and especially for her parents. You wake up every morning and you wish and you hope and you think of Molly every night. I'm still waiting for her to come in the front door. I'm waiting for that phone call. But now, the case of Molly's disappearance from this beach in Warren, Massachusetts, has gone as cold as a New England February. I say we live between hell and hope.

Perfect. Come on, you got a fingerprint. The Bishes are determined this never should happen to any other family. Come on, nice smile. Great, thank you. They have thrown themselves into activism. At one event for missing children, they even met the parents of another missing blonde teenager. Elizabeth Smart. We have become friends. The emotions are so blended. The two families began corresponding.

Too bad we have to belong to this infamous club. We are all doing fine, taking one day at a time. The Bishes are doing all they can to keep alive the hope that they'll find their daughter as well. Good job. Very good. And like the Smarts, they're not just sitting back and expecting the police to do it alone. At first, I was here almost every day. John Bish makes regular pilgrimages to Cummins Pond. At least once a month, twice a month.

And he has his own theory of what happened and how. It goes back to the morning before Molly vanished, when Maggie Bish saw a man sitting alone in a white car like this one parked at Cummins Pond. We pulled into the parking lot and there was a vehicle in the parking lot and it was a man. He's just sitting there smoking a cigarette and he's kind of staring at me. Maggie waited nervously for 20 minutes. They felt like a mother bear kind of protecting at me. Maggie waited nervously for 20 minutes. They felt like a mother bear kind of protecting her cub.

Finally, the man drove off, and Maggie put the incident out of her mind. Until the next day. When you got the call that afternoon, it said, Molly's missing. Did you say in your own mind, oh, my God, it's the guy in the white car? Immediately.

Based on Maggie's detailed descriptions... The man had dark hair, kind of salt and peppered. I thought it was between maybe 45, 55. Police have released two composite sketches. This is the individual that we're looking for in that white car. And as police discovered, Maggie Bish wasn't the only one who'd seen a white car in the vicinity. Other witnesses also spotted one the next day, the morning Molly disappeared. Well, before I got to this corner here, I could see the car.

And it was parked on the road. First, near a car wash at the base of Cummins Pond Road. It just didn't look right to be there. And later, at the end of the trail from the beach to the cemetery. See that sign pole down there? Can you see it way down by the woods there? That's where that car was this is where the bloodhounds led the blood up to this way and then up the path and out the cemetery in his mind's eye john bish can see this crime unfolding in your scenario he's waiting at the car wash until the

coast is clear yeah and he sees maggie leave marley. And he knows this is going to happen because he's watched this the day before. Fairly routine, yeah. He says the scene itself provides telling hints as to exactly what happened next, starting with that open first aid kit. What do you think the lure was? I think this was just someone who said, I need a band-aid I've cut myself do you have something. Then after Molly turned to open the kit John thinks the kidnapper forced her up the cemetery trail. The shoes tell him that

he says she'd never voluntarily have gone barefoot up that hill. I think she's probably being coerced up the hill he has control of her and may have a weapon pointed at her, a knife or a screwdriver or maybe even a gun. This is the back of the cemetery? Right. The car is sitting right there. We're still looking at the white car and I believe we have narrowed that somewhat. District Attorney John Conte pursued the white car theory seriously. We did a cursory search on 125 white cars. But his investigators believe the abductor had to live nearby.

They began interrogating local sex offenders and it turns out there were plenty to choose from we've looked at 35 to 45 sex offenders in the area at least one of those questioned a convicted child rapist named Oscar Bellagio Ron bears a striking resemblance to this sketch he's also admitted to meeting Molly at a party but Maggie Bish has doubt. Right. This gentleman doesn't bear a resemblance? Definitely there's resemblance, but the hair wasn't... It's nothing that... You don't look at this picture, it doesn't leap out at you and say anything. I think that's what drives us.

The sketch has become one of the most recognized drawings in Massachusetts. But the white car man never has been identified by police. It's more frustrating than anything else. And so it's gone for D.A. Conte. Countless theories. We've got over 4,000 leads in our database. Precious few facts. We're looking for evidence. We don't have it. But reality often has little to do with hope.

Somehow there's this tiny gossamer string and you hold on tight. It may get thin sometimes, but you hope and you pray. And then in March, 2003. Are you having fun, Elizabeth? After nearly three years without Molly, something remarkable happens. It's real!

It's real! Ed and Lois Smart get their daughter back. For the Bishes, suddenly, anything seems possible. Elizabeth is the strongest testimony to never giving up searching, never giving up hope. And we're waiting for that one piece of information to come in. That's what we're missing, the piece of the puzzle. It turns out the Bishes won't have to wait long for that piece.

It could be a major break in the search for Molly Bish. It was right there. That's where I found it. Major developments in Molly Bish's disappearance. Disturbing new clues found deep in the woods of Palmer. It's May 2003, three years after Molly Bish disappeared. And suddenly the investigation reignites. Now investigators believe they may have found a piece of her clothing. Discovered on this wooded hillside, five miles from the pond where she vanished, the first major clue in the case. Hopefully this is the break we've been looking for.

But strangely, the big break comes from someone who has nothing to do with the official investigation at all, a local ex-cop named Tim McGuigan. You know, there's been a lot of things said about me. I've been ridiculed. Essentially, I've been blackballed from law enforcement. But you know what? There's still some children missing.

It all began with McGuigan's obsession with an entirely different crime. The abduction of another young girl from the area. That's the point my life changed forever. Her name was Holly Peranian. She was 10 years old. In August of 1993, she went walking along this country road near her grandmother's house in Sturbridge, Massachusetts, and simply vanished.

All searchers found was one small shoe. I knew someone had taken the terrain around there. You don't walk around without, with only one shoe. In the following weeks, Holly's parents, Richard and Tina, and grandmother Maureen, went through the same ordeal the Bish family would experience seven years later. You don't realize what's going on around you. You just can't do anything. You just exist. Pray for Holly. Pray for Holly. Ten weeks after she vanished,

local hunters discovered Holly's remains in the woods nearby. All we can say is it appears to be a homicide. The worst part of it for me was wondering, you know, who was this person that did this to my daughter? Who killed Holly Peranian? Investigators never were able to figure that out. But several years later, local cop Tim McGuigan couldn't get Holly's unsolved murder out of his mind. I had three little girls of my own. And I thought of the innocence of this child and her life taken away by a predator.

It made me realize that there's real evil out there. There's evil out there. And I want to do everything I could to help her. So McGuigan started his own investigation. Three years of my life right there. With help from John Kelley. And how was she found? A hunter.

A forensics expert and profiler who works with police. Just about every of Timmy McGuigan's waking hours had to do with the Holly Perrine in case. But his superiors, McGuigan says, were not sympathetic. You think your supervisors just thought you were spending too much time on this? You were too engrossed in this? I think they thought that, you know, why are you looking into this? This isn't your jurisdiction. Who do you think you are? He took an interest, and I really don't know why. State Police Detective Lieutenant Peter Higgins is currently in charge of the official investigation, one he's worked on for the past 10 years. Is he a rogue cop?

Is he just a conscientious citizen? I think maybe somewhere in between there. But anybody investigating any type of crime has to somewhat stay detached so their emotions don't take over. I've been accused of being excessive on it. Do you think you are? I think there was a point in my life where,

yeah, I had become excessive about it. But what's bigger in life than getting a predator off the street before you grab somebody else? The Peranian case began to take over McWhegan's life. Case came home with me. Case went to work with me. He started drinking heavily. I was consuming a lot of alcohol. His marriage fell apart. I changed. And in August 2002, under a gathering cloud at the department, Tim McGuigan left the force. This has been at considerable personal cost. Absolutely. Virtually broke, McGuigan drifted from job to job. Timmy McGuigan could have gone over the edge, and that would have been the end of him.

His colleague John Kelly thought McGuigan might benefit from putting pen to paper. You start to tap into all this negative stuff that's been submerged by booze or whatever, and you start to get it out, and you start to let it flow. It had been nearly 10 years since Holly Peranian was abducted in her lifeless body found in a wooded area off Five Bridges Road. Then over two years since my last interview.

So began McGuigan's true crime account of the Holly Peranian murder. But as he wrote, he became increasingly fascinated with its similarity to the Molly Bish case. Two young girls, both blonde, vanishing in a rural area just a few miles apart. The similarities of the cases and the way they impacted my life made it nearly impossible to discuss one without the other. The possible connection between these cases hasn't been lost on investigators either. You can't help but wonder whether there is a connection. It's too much of a

coincidence in the same area, the same time of day. Though not evidence, there is another eerie coincidence. You got a letter from Molly Bish, correct? Yes, yeah, because this little girl who was her age was missing. Molly would have been 10 years old. I, my name is Molly Ann Bish. I am very sorry. She was very frightened and sad about this whole event. I wish I knew Holly. I hope they found her. She is still in my heart. Perhaps because of my three little girls, I took this personally, as if Holly and Molly were asking me for help. With the two disappearances increasingly linked in his thoughts. Tim McGuigan now went to the Bishes, asking for permission to investigate Molly's case as well. And I applauded his efforts. And he also told me, he said, you're going to crack this.

You're going to crack this wide open. Because you never quit. You just don't stop. Two weeks after that conversation... It could be a major break in the search for Molly Bish. Police make their startling announcement, the discovery of pieces of a weather-beaten bathing suit, much like the one Molly Bish was wearing.

It appears to be the same size, medium, and it may be the same brand. The suit was found by, of all people, Tim McGuigan. It was more kind of this way, wasn't it? He says a local hunter, Ricky Boudreau, led him to the site. Yeah, this is it right here. Boudreau actually had seen the blue suit months earlier. If I would have knew what color it was right away, I'd have been there the next day or that day and I'd have brought somebody out here, but I didn't know.

I figured it would be orange or red. He'd forgotten about it until he crossed paths with McGuigan. I started talking to him about it, and then I started actually reading him the introduction to my book. Similarities of these cases, to say the least, are intriguing. He said, you know, I found a bathing suit. I said, Ricky, where did you find a girl's bathing suit? And he said, yes. And I said, you need to get me up there.

The next day, Boudreaux showed him the suit, and they called police. That bathing suit is now at the laboratory. Green, George, Peterson. And another intensive ground search begins. You all know what we're looking for. We want to solve this case, and we want to find Molly, and we want to bring her back to the Bish's. But even as they search, police have some questions for the man

who led them to this new evidence. When you tell how this came to be, I mean, this is an amazing coincidence. Here you are writing a book. You just happen to have some sort of social gathering where there's this hunter who happens to tell you about a bathing suit. It is astonishing. You know, stranger things have happened. The police did ask you for a DNA sample, correct?

They did. Which you supplied. Absolutely. And they asked you to take a polygraph. Right. Which you refused. Absolutely. And why did you refuse to take a polygraph?

With all due respect to Mr. Conte, we had 11 people fail a lie detector test. One of the dumbest statements I've ever heard was 11 people failed a polygraph exam. What, am I going to make it an even dozen? You know, maybe they should think about getting another polygrapher. If it comes down to it, McGuigan says he has two rock solid alibis. He was in the army when Holly disappeared, and he was on duty as a policeman when Molly vanished. Just for the record, did you in fact have any involvement? That statement offends me. Absolutely not. Despite Tim's friction with the investigators. If they want to label me as a cowboy or rogue, they have a right to that opinion.

The Bish family seems grateful to him. Oftentimes you find someone who has an obsession with a case and that's what drives it, that's what gets it solved. And now they're starting to wonder, could this disgraced policeman solve the mystery of Holly and Molly? solve the mystery of Holly and Molly? Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty?

Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor

and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad

free right now. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still a virgin. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones, and for almost two years, I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with.

In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. The disappearance of 16-year-old Molly Bish and the murder of 10-year-old Holly Peranian are separated by seven years and about 10 miles. But they are clearly connected in the mind of former police officer Timothy McGuigan,

who admits that he is obsessed with solving both cases. While investigators see him as a disgraced outsider, there is no denying it was McGuigan's involvement that led to the first major break in three years of searching for Molly Bish. And even though McGuigan himself has become a target of suspicion, still he is not letting up. Here again is Susan Spencer. Thank you for meeting us. We welcome you to share in the third annual Massachusetts Missing Children's Day. We will commemorate the 33 missing children of Massachusetts and the families missing them. It's been two weeks since John and Maggie Bish learned

of the first major break in their daughter's case, the discovery of a bathing suit just a few miles from the pond where Molly disappeared. Even as we speak, the Massachusetts State Police are scouring the woods for our Molly. A week later, this afternoon, devastating news. We did discover a human bone. District Attorney John Conte says the bone is from a person 14 to 20 years old. We've now established the area as a crime scene area. The search goes on. These guys are crawling around on their hands and feet in the woods trying to find pieces of Molly.

20 dead, 20 bones now. Then finally, on June 9th, investigators confirm once and for all. We were able to completely identify the remains as those of Molly. Wow, you know, it's probably one of the most difficult times in our life, but we're glad Molly's home. You know, it does give us some peace because we know she's where she is and what happened to her. As much as you try to prepare, there's no way, you know.

And it's an age when they're just becoming themselves, you know, and they're blossoming and all the world is in front of them. The search for Molly Bish is over. But the search for her killer never has been more urgent. We're going to search every single lead that we have. We have to find this person, and we will find him. I hope that they get this guy. But the ex-cop who led police to the bathing suit

isn't content to cheer them on from the sidelines. She would have been right down in that area, John. So on this day, while the official investigators still are up in that hillside hunting for evidence... It's a pretty clear view from right there. Right. Tim McGuigan is conducting his unofficial investigation at the site where Molly was abducted. So he's got to go up this hill. With him, criminal profiler John Kelly. We felt he

had to be a hometown guy because Cummins Pond is very hard to find. I mean, he'd have to know this area pretty damn well. Kelly also believes the man was no novice. This isn't this guy's first time out. How do you know that? He wouldn't be as good. He wouldn't be as methodical. I mean, keep in mind, this has been the perfect crime for three years. He's gotten away with murder. Today, the two visit the Holly Peranian crime scenes, too.

This is the area where it's believed she was taken from. And are struck more than ever by the similarities. Can we say the cases are definitely connected? Of course not. It's probably 50-50 right now that these cases are connected. I think the only way to change the odds is to eliminate people. For three years, Tim McGuigan has been trying to do just that. And he says he keeps coming back to one suspect, Robert Arms.

I believe he needs to be looked at strongly. Robert Arms is a day laborer who lived in the area where Holly was abducted. You absolutely think that he killed these two girls? I think that he's involved in Holly Perennian. I'm not sure of any involvement with Molly Bish. McGuigan thinks Arms knew the area well and acted suspiciously after Holly's murder. He wonders why Arms bought new boots that day. Was there evidence on the old ones?

And why did Arms, a few days later, junk the car he had been driving? He had the car crushed? He did. And your theory as to why is? He wanted to get rid of physical evidence. Police recovered the car after it was crushed and found no evidence in it. But there's no denying that what Arms did later certainly seemed odd. I'd like to appeal again to the people or anyone that knows the people that have Holly now. That is Robert Arms with the family of Holly Peranian. This person must have a friend or a neighbor or someone. Shortly after Holly disappeared, he approached the family, volunteered to help search, and held fundraisers.

We will not rest until Holly is back with her family where she belongs. Was this somebody that you knew? No, no. We had no idea who he was. A year and a half later, in another strange move, Arms went to the press, declared he knew he was a suspect, and denied any involvement in the crime. Well, I have a clear conscience, okay? I have a clear conscience now. I don't need to confess to something I didn't do to get a clear conscience.

Police never have determined Arms' whereabouts when Holly disappeared, but they say there's never been enough evidence to charge Arms with the crime. Have you dismissed the idea that Robert Arms was in any way connected to this? I don't want to really speak to a specific individual. The number of individuals we looked at and we continue to look at those people. You've got your sights on this guy. Have you talked to him? No, I'd like to talk to him. We wanted to talk to him too. Arms ignored requests for an interview, but we tracked him down in New Hampshire. Since moving here, Arms has been arrested numerous times on petty offenses.

Hi, how are you? Hi, are you Robert Arms? I am. Yeah, I'm Susan Spencer from CBS. Hi, how are you? Nice to see you. Can I ask you a couple questions? About? About the Holly Peranian case?

No, I'm good with that. You're good with that? Thanks anyway. Well, did you have anything to do with it? What's that? Your name keeps coming up. Of course not, ma'am. Well, it does. It keeps coming up.

Until Robert Arms answers some questions, Tim McGuigan won't rule him out as Holly Peranian's killer. I want to help Robert. I want to help exonerate him. I want him to come see me. Tell me what you did that day. As for Molly Bish, Arms does vaguely resemble the first sketch of the white car man Maggie Bish saw at Cummins Pond.

And some witnesses do put him in the area that week. But that's a far cry from real evidence that he was involved. Are you prepared to accept that you might be just flat out wrong? Molly Bish, I certainly entertain the possibility that Robin Arms may not be involved, but I believe wholeheartedly as far as Holly Perrini is, I'm right. Though McGuigan hasn't solved these murders, he certainly has refocused the police's attention. Even if I'm wrong, Molly Bish is still going home. There's a lot of activity being placed on these cases right now. And it seems that Tim McGuigan's fate is strangely intertwined with Holly and Molly.

There's a marker right there. Yep. I'm surprised they left it up here. It's on high. We learned just how strange during an interview with McGuigan and Ricky Boudreau at the spot where they found the bathing suit. It was weeks after police completed their supposedly exhaustive search. That's a little piece right there. Where? There's a piece of it right there. Oh yeah, that's a piece of it. The next bizarre twist in this case was right before our eyes.

I can't believe they left that. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. The scary cult classic was set in the Chicago housing project. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. Candyman. Candyman? Now we all know chanting a name won't make a killer magically appear. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder?

I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. We're going to talk to the people who were there. And we're also going to uncover the larger story. My architect was shocked when he saw how this was created. Literally shocked. And we'll look at what the story tells us about injustice in America. If you really believed in tough on crime, then you wouldn't make it easy to crawl into medicine cabinets and kill our women.

Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free, with a 48-hour plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet. A brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bolder risk takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best selling video game character of all time,

only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. Ten days after police reopened the area where Molly Bish's remains were found, This little piece right there.

Where? ex-cop Tim McGuigan and hunter Ricky Boudreau make another startling discovery. There's a piece of her suit right there. This right here? Wegan and hunter Ricky Boudreau make another startling discovery. There's a piece of our suit right there. This right here. Yeah, that's a piece of our suit. Yeah, that's definitely a piece of that suit. At the exact spot where they first found the bathing suit. I can't believe they left that.

I mean, DNA could have got off of it. Whatever it is, we decided it should be turned over to authorities. You're sure that's what this is? Oh, that's definitely,'s got to be a piece of the just one of the straps the next day we asked detective lieutenant peter higgins in charge of the holly peranian case how he thought a police forensic team could have missed it it raises the question in people's mind gosh if they miss that you, what else did they miss? I would defer to the investigators from the Worcester unit that is working on that case for any comments. But despite repeated requests, Worcester County D.A. John Conte will not agree to sit down and talk with us about the Bish case.

Nor will he say if the laboratory analysis of the bathing suit, or of our little piece of it, has produced any new leads. That's a big piece. What is he afraid of? Is his concern that they missed a part of the suit? Is that a concern of his? Well, it should be. It should be.

McGuigan's out there competing against the cops in this investigation. He is, isn't he? Obviously he is because he's not working with them. I think in a way it's good because it should make the cops work harder, the state police detectives work harder, if they don't want to be outshined by McGuigan again. Because at this point right now, it's like one nothing McGuigan. I draw strength from the fact that I feel partially responsible, at least partially responsible for Molly Bish going home. On August 2nd, 2003, what would have been her 20th birthday, Molly Bish is laid to rest. I welcome you to St. Paul's Cathedral this morning

as we gather to commend Molly Bish into the loving and tender hands of God. I hope focuses on the family that we go on that we don't become victims again. District Attorney Conte pays his respects. It only strengthens our resolve to continue to solve this case. But police seem to have no new suspects and no inclination to officially clear their old ones. Not even Tim McGuigan's dark horse, Robert Arms, and the mysterious white car man Maggie saw is by now a local legend. The Bishes must face the possibility that like another group of mourners at Molly's funeral. It's very moving. It's a very nice ceremony. Their daughter's murder may never be solved. I

had to come. I felt that I should be here to support the Bishes. We've been through so much together with them. The family of Holly Peranian attends one more mass today. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Grant us peace. Commemorating the 10th anniversary of Holly's murder. Tim McGuigan comes to honor both of the girls whose tragic deaths have shaped his life. It really has made me question my spirituality, my relationship with God, and why things happen. He's proud that he's helped the Bish's find Molly, but he admits that in a way, they've helped him even more.

I think they have amazing strength. And they've given so much. It's a testament to who they are. It's amazing, amazing people. Eventually, routine settles again on Warren, Massachusetts. John Bish continues his work as a probation officer and another school year begins for Maggie.

September 16th, Everybody help me. We know Molly wouldn't want us to be sad. There's a part of us that will always be sad. But Molly was joyful and Molly was one who loved life and that's how I want people to remember. But with two unsolved murders haunting the area, the community must move on knowing that at least one killer still may be on the loose. This person or these people are still out here. I think everyone is frightened that this person is amongst us and we have no clue who it is.

We have to find this murderer, and we will find him. Worcester County District Attorney John Conte empaneled a grand jury to hear testimony in the Molly Bish case. Ex-cop Tim McGuigan, who turned up key evidence in the case, is among those who have testified. Molly's parents, John and Maggie Bish, have been speaking to police all across the country, hoping to improve the way they handle missing child cases. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey. Paramount Podcasts