48 Hours - Post Mortem | Kassanndra's Secret

Episode Date: September 26, 2023

This week on Post Mortem we hear from correspondent Natalie Morales and producer Betsy Shuller who will take you inside their reporting on the disappearance of Kassanndra Cantrell. Hear about the technological evidence used to charge the suspected killer, “The Hat Man,” and go behind the scenes with the 48 Hours team as they discuss how investigators were able to find Kassanndra's remains.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. I'm Anne-Marie Green and welcome to 48 Hours Postmortem. Whether you're new to 48 Hours or you're a longtime fan like I am, the team at 48 Hours is answering your biggest questions from our latest episode.

It's called Cassandra's Secret. Joining me today, correspondent Natalie Morales and producer Betsy Shuler, who reported on and produced the episode. Thanks so much for being here. Good to be with you. Of course. Good to be with you too. Before we get started, let's play a clip from the episode. On August 26, 2020, 33-year-old Cassandra Cantrell was supposed to meet her best friend, Alexandra McNary, but she never showed up. I texted her, hey, where are you? I got no response. Cassandra had vanished. Two days later, police found her car in an industrial area near downtown Tacoma.

industrial area near downtown Tacoma. But why was it there? Pierce County Sheriff's Detective Franz Helmke knew the city's light rail system was nearby and discovered they had footage of Cassandra's car. You can see a subject getting out of the vehicle and start walking away. He's dressed in all black, blue surgical gloves and a black fedora. Who was the man in the hat? Alexandra says when she saw the video, she immediately knew who it was. Colin Dudley. Cassandra met him in 2006.

Was he always wearing a hat? He would put it on and switch into his persona of the hat man and preferred to be called the hat man. Helmke confronted Colin, but Colin insisted he hadn't seen Cassandra in years. Helmke suspected Colin was lying, and there was something else. Cassandra had a secret. And so, if you've watched the episode, then you know Cassandra's secret is that she was pregnant. And not just that she was pregnant.

The father of the child was a friend of hers who was in a relationship with someone else, had a girlfriend. And that girlfriend told police he never wanted children. Right. So this is Colin. And he turns out to be the prime suspect and is now behind bars for her murder. All right. So I have to ask, I'm very curious to know, what was the most asked question that you got about this case? I think first and foremost is, you know, people were asking, how did Colin Dudley only end up getting 26 years?

After all, Cassandra was pregnant. And, you know, it certainly wasn't what her family wanted. They wanted this case to go to trial. But in fact, Colin Dudley ended up taking a plea deal. And that's why he ended up with 26 years. I think people will be surprised to know, and it sounds crazy, that the typical sentence in Washington state for this crime, which is first degree murder, is only about 20 to 26.7 years. So in the end, his plea deal was basically what prosecutors told us he would have ended up getting had they gone to trial. Who approached who about a plea deal? The prosecutors told us that the defense approached them initially. The initial offer was much lower than 26 years,

so that kicked off some negotiations. But once the defense indicated Colin was willing to agree to the 26 years, that's when they accepted it. And I just want to say the family, yes, they're happy. He's behind bars. He's convicted, but they really wanted a trial. They felt cheated by not having a trial. But there was a ton of evidence, right? Why not take it to trial? Well, look, this wasn't about the prosecutors not thinking they had enough evidence. They did,

and the police did an unbelievable job in this case. I think the concern from the prosecutors was that there was so much data evidence that assuming they could get it all admitted to trial, which they were concerned about, that it would be hard to get the average person to understand what this data meant. Yeah. And while they had data and all of that, you know, he's pleading guilty. Had it gone to trial, I mean, there is no guarantee what would have happened with the jury. So there's always that in the back of the prosecutor's mind is even though you have a mountain of physical evidence, you have to connect the dots. And the one thing we don't know is how this murder happened. There's

nobody who witnessed this murder. You know, when it comes to creating reasonable doubt, the defense could have gone down a road which could have led the jury in a completely different direction. One thing about this story is that there was all this video. And so the video just didn't help you tell the story. It helped detectives figure out what happened. And so it brings me to Colin. When we see him in the surveillance video, right, after he parks her car and he's walking to the train station, he's got the gloves on, he's got the mask on, he's got the hat on.

Can you talk to me about the hat man persona? Well, the hat man persona goes back to Clockwork Orange, the fedora-wearing character with the eyelashes. So that kind of tells you it's a little bit of a creepy role. He created this whole sort of alter ego. And when he was on stage in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, he mandated that everybody in that production call him Hat Man. Did he act differently? Did he speak differently? You know, from what people told us, I think he did. It was this persona that allowed him to have a different air about him, maybe allowed him to get away with some things, not murder, obviously, but allowed him to maybe treat people in a certain way that he

wanted to that may not have been the right way to do things. So I do think that it was a persona that he adopted and more than just, oh, I like wearing fedoras. The video from the train, this sort of blurry video, and he has such a distinctive shape with that hat. You just know it's him right away. Right. Because you have video from the train station, you have video from the parking garage, but that doesn't necessarily tie to Cassandra's car. What tied to Cassandra's car is just what you said, from the moving train. It's just the luck that the train passed at that moment is, yeah. You know, he parks the car in an area that, you know, it's known for homeless people. And I thought

to myself, he's trying to pin this on a homeless person, I think. He leaves the keys on the dashboard. He does all this stuff that really makes it seem like it's really clearly planned out. And then he leaves her cell phone on. Natalie asked the detective that right to his face. I asked, and they were like, well, clearly he wasn't thinking clearly enough. And what they said is perhaps in all the chaos, I mean, let's remember this guy just committed murder and we don't know how brutal or violent, but you can only assume it was a very violent murder because

Cassandra died from head wounds. So in all of that, there was a lot of chaos. So, he knew that, okay, I could turn my cell phone off, but I guess he forgot to turn her ping being off of Vashon Island in the Puget Sound. And I thought, there's no way they're finding this thing. And they found it. Talk about luck. Beyond luck. I mean, look, it is a testament to the Pierce County Sheriff's dive team and their work, but there was a lot of luck involved. Yeah. Natalie, I don't know about you, but standing there, like when we looked out at the water, it was really like, it's one thing to say, oh, it's this many miles of water, but then you're, you know, we're standing there and we're going, oh my goodness. It's even worse than finding a needle in a haystack. Okay, I want to play a little sound. Natalie, here's a clip from the episode of you and Detective Van Dyke who explains just how they managed to zero in on the location.

Van Dyke had a plan to dramatically reduce the area where the phone might be. First, he asked members of his team to throw stones from the beach to simulate how far someone could throw a cell phone. If you picture throwing something from here, it limits the distance that I would have to search for what he threw. The dive team then formed a line, essentially creating an underwater drag net.

We had a boat out in the water and a line of people on snorkel that day, just looking down. They were told that Cassandra's phone had a case decorated with glitter. This is the actual underwater footage. The dive team was in the water for little more than an hour, when incredibly... One of the guys on the line said, hey, I think I got it. They saw a sparkle.

I think I got the phone. And it was the phone. And so there you have it. They find the phone. It turns out that he didn't actually need the phone because there was so much other digital and technological evidence that really mapped out his movements. But before we get to that, I first want to talk about the other woman in Colin's life. He's living with his girlfriend. Her name is Rebecca. And police bring her in to question her. And there's this bizarre moment in the questioning where she is asked whether or not she thinks that her boyfriend is capable of murder. Let's take a listen to this clip from the episode. Do you think he would be capable of hurting Cassandra? After a 13-second pause.

Physics would say, yes, he's got size and strength on her. I don't think he would. No, he would not. I mean, what is that? You know what they're asking. They're not asking literally, is he capable of doing that? Of course. That is one of the most bizarre answers I have ever heard in a police interview.

You know, what was fascinating is not just her response. Physics would say. But there was that long pause before she answered. So certainly it, to me, indicates she was really thinking really hard, like, what do I say here and how do I say this? It was a very suspicious sort of way to answer the question. Did you try to talk to Rebecca? We did.

Our team reached out to her for over a year, calling, sending letters, and she didn't want to talk to us. So coming up, we're going to talk about the huge break in the case, the black box from Colin's truck, and just how investigators were able to find Cassandra. We're also going to talk about the wrongful death suit Cassandra's family filed against Colin and what that means for the hat man. We'll be right back. filed against Colin and what that means for the Hat Man. We'll be right back. Did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder,

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So investigators believe that Cassandra was killed in Colin's house, but, you know, they didn't have a body. And as I'm watching the hour unfold, you know, I think to myself, that's going to be the real challenge. But they use this surveillance information that I didn't even know, you know, was available, which is his truck's black box. I kept on thinking to myself, there's no way to be anonymous in this current technological age. You know, you can turn off tracking devices, you can turn off whatever you want on your phone. Man, if people want to find you, they can find you. So they're able to figure out where her body might be based on the truck

data. Was that sort of new to you or have you seen that before used? No, that was new to me. Natalie, was that new to you? It was new to me. I mean, of course, those of us who have more technologically savvy cars these days, I mean, you can assume that through your vehicle's navigation systems, the cameras that we have in our cars, that those things can track us. Well, this was a bit of an older model truck, but it was interesting. His truck did have an OnStar system, and that's how the detectives were able to track and pinpoint his movements the next morning on August 26th. And they pinpoint and attract it to a nearby ravine.

And one of the detectives knew that area and suspected, if you're going to get rid of a body, this is what you would do. This is where you would go. Yeah, this was a huge break in the case. I want to play another clip from the episode. Here's Detective Van Dyke describing where they found Cassandra's remains. I got there first and looked over the hillside, and you could clearly see that there was a garbage can halfway down the hill. You could see that the garbage can had a bag liner and some ropes around it. He also spotted blood. So you clearly at this point knew you had remains.

Oh, absolutely. So this is, you know, the part of the hour where I just thought, no, like, oh, man. And they go down the ravine, and they want to verify that it's actually her. And so he asks for a picture of her tattoo. Can we talk about her tattoo? Yeah. I mean, it's such an identifying mark, but it also, it captures her persona perfectly, which reads, we don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow

old because we stop playing. And that's who she was. Cassandra loved fantasy. She and her twin brother wanted to have a collectible store with a bunch of fantasy items in it. She loved going to Disney, dressing in costume. She was very whimsical and playful in nature. And her mom, Marie Smith, said that was exactly who she was. That quote encapsulates Cassandra perfectly. It's how she lived her life. She was playful. She was whimsical. And, you know, sadly, she will not grow old. And this is, you know, the tragedy of this case is this is when they knew they were able to identify Cassandra's body. Yeah. And I think, you know, the family to a certain degree still had some hope up until that point. And it was, it was almost a month later, if I remember correctly, when they found her body. And, you know, her mom remembers getting the phone call and asking if she was okay. The detective, like, we found Cassandra, and Marie asked if she was okay. And it's just heartbreaking.

Often when it comes to victims, you're left with a handful of pictures, and then you sort of lean into their loved ones to bring them to life. But you had Cassandra completely, you know, she was everywhere. There were dozens and dozens of YouTube videos where she did these clothing hauls. She talked about her dog. You got to see her dog. I mean, you know, I don't know what's more real than that. And we just felt very fortunate to have that. And I think, and Betsy can add to this as well, that when you produce these kinds of stories, it's hard sometimes knowing that the victim is dead to kind of get a sense of who they were in life. And those videos really tell her story.

She was vibrant, charismatic, loved a good deal, like so many people love to shop. And I think that really translates when you see all that video and how much she looked forward to helping her friends out when it came to getting a good bargain somewhere. Right. Yeah. I mean, it sounds so obvious. TV is visual. So on the one hand, to have someone describe her, but on the other hand, to get to see it and you really, really feel it. And she comes to life through those videos. You know, Natalie, when you were describing her, I thought to myself, you know, I kind of see what is similar about Cassandra and Colin, what is similar about Cassandra and Colin, right? But it's almost like the opposite sides of a coin.

Here is a woman who is playful, who enjoys role-playing, who is tapped into sort of everything that's great about that childlike imagination. And here's a guy who's tapped into the same thing, but a much darker side, the hat man. Can anyone explain why she was attracted to him? She had dated him before and they kind of rekindled a friendship that clearly was more than a friendship. I'm wondering if people that loved her, her friends, her twin brother, her mom, could they explain this relationship? So her best friend explained it that

it wasn't what Cassandra saw in him. It's what she didn't see in herself, I believe was the quote. But they clearly were into the same things. I mean, that's so interesting the way you put it. But they clearly were into the same things. I mean, that's so interesting the way you put it. And, you know, back when they met in Rocky Horror, I mean, at that age, you see someone on stage and playing these different characters. I mean, there is some allure to that that I can see. It's a bit of that narcissistic personality, you know, the man who wears the hat and demands that the whole cast and crew call him Hat Man. And, you know, of course he's playing this role, but at the same time, there's a power that comes with that. And perhaps she was attracted to a bit of that power and that authority that he exuded.

Marie said the first time that Colin stood on her front porch, she knew he was bad news. Natalie, correct me if I'm wrong. I think she chose not to try to break them up because she felt if she tried to break them up, it would make her want to be with him more at that age. She took one look at him and knew he was bad news. Well, I think when they rekindled their relationship, that's also part of the secret that Cassandra was keeping was that she didn't tell her mom that she was back on with Colin. Marie knew that Cassandra and Colin were meeting up and going to the movies and having lunch together, but she didn't know how far that relationship had gone at this point. And she was telling her mom and her brother, I believe, that it was only a friendship. And at some point, she told at least the friend we talked to that it changed into something

more romantic. Because she told her mom the father of the child was just somebody on a dating website that she had met. Because she was scared what her mom was going to say initially if she found out it was Colin. I know you've done stories before where the victim has been pregnant. And this is often a very crucial time for women when they are in unhealthy, toxic relationships. We don't know the nature of this relationship prior to this, but we know that his girlfriend said he didn't want a kid. Multiple people that his girlfriend said he didn't want a kid. Multiple people said he had said he didn't want a kid.

Can we talk about how often pregnant women are victims in cases like this? Yeah, we see that pregnant women are often victims in pregnancy. It tends to be a very pivotal point in relationships where somebody is in a vulnerable situation. According to some articles and statistics, women in the U.S. are more likely to be murdered during pregnancy or soon after childbirth than to die from medical issues, even leading to maternal mortality. mortality. So it's a time where it can be very toxic if a relationship is already, you know, at a breaking point, it can be a very difficult time for relationships. So you cover, you know, cases like this all the time, murder cases, kidnapping, stalking cases all the time. Does it take an emotional toll on you, Natalie? You know, any case, I think, especially when you consider that somebody has lost their life, is very hard to cover. And in this case, a young pregnant woman who had so many sweet plans, as her mom told us. You know, she even had a baby registry set up.

told us. She even had a baby registry set up. So when you see this woman who was really celebrating all that she had to live for, and in fact, celebrating the new life she was creating inside of her, that was, I think, most particularly sad in my case, thinking about this young woman in the prime of her life, just really figuring out who she was and so excited to become a mom. And that got me a couple of times. It was pretty hard to keep the emotions in check when you're doing the interviews. I cried watching Marie's interview and cried with Marie and asked if I could give her a big hug afterwards. I mean, we're reporters, producers. We have a job to do, but we're humans, too. And these, you know, these stories are sad. And the more you hear about the people and the more real they

become and you hear the emotions from the family, they lost someone they love tragically. It's just really sad. Cassandra's family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Colin. The civil trial was delayed and it's scheduled to go to trial in February of 2024. So how does this differ from the original case? And what does it mean for Colin's plea deal? Does it mean anything at all? I mean, will Collins' plea deal actually sort of help them in terms of their wrongful death case? I don't think it will help them. You know, the civil case focuses more on, you know, compensatory damages, but also the way the family sees it is as an opportunity to have a trial. is as an opportunity to have a trial. So for them, I would speculate it's less about what they can actually get and more about one of the things they wanted,

which was for this to go to trial and more information to come out and more people to know about Cassandra. Here's a woman that they loved completely in life and they deserve to know what herandra. Here's a woman that they loved completely in life and they deserve to know, you know, what her last few moments were like and why. More than anything, they deserve to know why. What will you two take away from covering this case? You know, I think for me is, thank goodness, we do live in such a wired world that it's almost impossible to get away with murder. If Colin thought he had a plan and meticulously thought of the details leading up to the crime, he didn't think of everything,

and he certainly wasn't counting on there being surveillance video practically at every turn of his and tracking devices that would eventually unfold what was the actual crime, that he murdered Cassandra. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And, you know, yes, the sentence is low, but he is behind bars. The bad guy is behind bars. And I think that that is always something that you can take away from this. And I think her family wants to make sure that that memory is kept alive and also

to ensure that people understand the shortcomings of our criminal justice system. It may not exactly be the result they wanted, but in this case, Colin Dudley is locked up for a long time, 26 years, not as long as they would have wanted. But you know, he is locked up. So I've had the pleasure of working with the amazing team at 48 Hours. And it's always remarkable to me how well you weave together the stories. What does it take to put together a good 48-hour story? What are you looking for? It's got to have several components. It's got to have people who are willing to talk to us. We want to hear from the people directly involved, the victims' families, the perpetrators or the perpetrators' family, the detectives involved,

the lawyers. so we definitely need people who are willing to talk to us um a compelling investigation good police work always helps it was stellar in this case this case had a lot of really good evidence a lot of video evidence which television is visual interviews with with people, confessions, stuff like that, the clip with Rebecca. I think the personal element, at least for me, I find that I connect with the victims, even if it's someone I never met or with the family, what they're going through. So that's what it takes to sort of have an episode. And, you know, there's definitely other people that work on it. There's great editors. I mean, one of my editors, Doreen, she took all that YouTube footage of Cassandra and brought her to life. Like, I mean, it was magical what she did with all that footage. with all that footage. You know, we also spend a lot of time as a team just talking about the story,

right? What's interesting about the story? And then you structure it and the structure changes. We changed the structure on this almost up until the end just to find what works. And that's all part of the process, how best to tell it so that it's a compelling story, but also for the audience to understand it. Well, it was a fantastic hour as usual. That's 48 Hours Postmortem for us this week. Betsy, Natalie, thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Be sure to join us next Tuesday for another Postmortem.

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