48 Hours - Secrets of Waco

Episode Date: December 30, 2017

A retired UPS driver reveals new details about cult leader David Koresh.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. The tragedy in Waco in 1993 continues to smolder. Even though it's been 25 years, there are still revelations and why this story still haunts the American people. Waco was a tale of a religious fringe group

that decided to fight back against the federal government and murdered federal law enforcement. And that at the end of the siege, burned themselves up rather than come out. What's my name? What's my name? He had been in control of the Branch Davidian sect. He was incredibly charismatic.

I waited patiently on the Lord. He was spellbinding. He brought me up out of a horrible pit. He was a god in the human flesh. He was a classic con man. Someone's the son of God. And his chosen area of con. God speaks to me. Was religion.

It was my understanding that he was God's son. Do you believe he's the son of God? I hope he is. My mom was very confident that he was the second coming of Christ. They would do anything for this man. How many young girls did he have sex with? I'm thinking at least 10. Between 12 and 15 years of age?

Yes. It is my great, wonderful looks. Something that just women can't resist. It's unclear how many children he had. Who's your daddy? David. But easily... Say hi.

Hi. ...over a dozen. Do you understand? It's war. People are being oppressed. He was a Jesus Christ who could drink and smoke and love guns and rock and roll, but he was going to bring about the end of times. They began buying guns.

My mom made the bulletproof vests. We were getting ready for war. Are you ready to come out and give up? The standoff's been going on about 45 minutes now. I'm under fire! You don't have a backup? This touched off a standoff that would become the longest standoff in American law enforcement history. Our primary goal was to get the kids out of harm's way. We didn't leave because this is where we belonged. What he said to me was,

anybody is free to leave anytime they want to. Negotiations are now underway with Colton leader David Koresh. I'm talking to you, somebody's gonna get hurt. And he says, God has told me to wait. Are you coming out? We are going to fulfill our commitment to god so how do you negotiate with god there are unanswered questions that still linger

in popular culture and haunt the american imagination and i've kept my story secret for the last 25 years everything secret is going to be revealed. I didn't want to take this to my grave. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast,

Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access,

I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing The Best Idea Yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy

about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk-takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best-selling video game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products.

Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app rising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. It looks like quiet Texas prairie, but nearly a quarter of a century ago, this was a place where God, guns, and government collided so violently

that its impact is still being felt today. But how did it come to this? There's 75 men around our building, and they're shooting at us. Tell them there are children and women in here, and they're calling off. All right, all right. You know? I hear gun. All right, all right. You know?

I hear a gunfire. Oh, s***. He's got more than guns. He's got God. Tonight, new secrets of Waco will be revealed for the very first time, including the remarkable story of this delivery man who unwittingly armed the cult. My name is Larry Gilbreth.

This is one part of the story from that time that nobody's ever heard. A story Larry Gilbreth has agonized over. I have been blamed for what happened out there. For 25 years, Larry wondered if his actions led to one of the deadliest confrontations between federal law enforcement agents and civilians in US history. A gun battle, a 51-day standoff,

and a raging fire that would claim more than 70 lives, including at least two dozen children. People are being oppressed. Koresh was talking about the end of the world happening in a giant conflict. Award-winning investigative journalist Lee Hancock, considered one of the country's leading Waco experts, covered the rise of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians for more than two decades.

Hancock is now a consultant for CBS News. LEAH HANCOCK, David Koresh was the illegitimate child of a woman who gave birth to him at 14 years old. He didn't really ever know his father very well. One of the next men that she took up with actually beat Koresh. We got our tails whomped. I told myself as a young man, when I grow up, I'm going to do it different. The abuse was so severe that Koresh's grandmother ultimately took him in. In 1981, while in his early 20s, David Koresh left his family's hometown in Tyler, Texas, after a religious scandal. He decided that the preacher's daughter had been given to him by God and wanted to have sex with her.

Koresh sought refuge with the Branch Davidians, a reclusive group of Christians living in Waco, Texas. Since the 1920s, they'd practiced a Bible-based, back-to-basics form of Christianity. This was the place where they were going to find eternal salvation. They were on a path to heaven. Koresh briefly took an exit off that path, heading to California to try his luck in the music business. But it didn't work out. Instead, he found his stardom in the pulpit, as captured here by Australia's Nine Network.

Someone's the son of God. His commanding preaching style began attracting followers. Koresh and I were closer than brothers. We had that common bond. In 1986, Mark Brough was just a young divinity student living near Los Angeles when he was introduced to David Koresh by another Branch Davidian. When I first met him, he wasn't the son of God. He knew his doctrine really well.

The two men began studying the Bible together, and before long, Breaux was hooked on Koresh's radical form of Christianity. Nobody knows Jesus today. So enamored with Koresh, Bro followed him back to Waco, Texas a year later, where Koresh decided it was time for people to begin worshiping him. David said that he was the Christ. He was not just a prophet. He was the Son of God. But there was a problem. Someone else was running the Branch Davidian Church. He and his rival, both heavily armed, had a violent confrontation. A shootout occurred then. The sheriff's department came out. Anybody hit?

Actually, there was one guy who was wounded in a minor way. If we wanted to kill him, he'd be dead. Koresh was arrested and charged with attempted murder. His case ended in a mistrial. Koresh was now the leader of the Branch Davidian Church. The essence of Koresh's teaching was the first Christ was a good Christ and a holy Christ and a nice Christ. He was the first Christ was a good Christ, and a holy Christ, and a nice Christ. He was the sinful messiah.

A sinful messiah who apparently had a favorite sin. He would later father as many as 20 children with his female followers, some as young as 14. He wanted us to know that we had nothing but to trust in God and to love him, to know that the Bible was our hope and strength. Sheila Martin and her husband, a Harvard Law School graduate, were true believers. Every day he was in contact with God. By the late 1980s, Koresh had dozens of followers sitting spellbound for hours listening to his end-of-the-world sermons of doom. Bloodshed! Inquisition! Death! Murder! Killing! Koresh would begin building an extensive arsenal of firearms and explosives to defend against the apocalyptic attack he had predicted was coming.

to defend against the apocalyptic attack he had predicted was coming. I thought it was a little strange that religious people would be ordering guns. United Parcel Service driver Larry Gilbreth delivered packages to the compound, sometimes making several trips a week. For months, he had no idea what was in them. Then he started noticing the labels. They were getting shipments from an arms dealer. But in Texas, receiving large shipments of weapons was not illegal. They just kept coming. They just kept coming. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island.

It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still a virgin. and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still a virgin. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with.

In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. The scary cult classic was set in the Chicago housing project.

It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. Candyman. Candyman? Now, we all know chanting a name won't make a killer magically appear. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. We're going to talk to the people who were there, and we're also going to uncover the larger story. My architect was shocked when he saw how this was created. Literally shocked.

And we'll look at what the story tells us about injustice in America. If you really believed in tough on crime, then you wouldn't make it easy to crawl into medicine cabinets and kill our women. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, wherever you get your podcasts. There's a truth that you can reveal it. There's no one else that can do that. Bye-bye.

Okay, next. Proving himself to me. By the late 1980s, David Koresh had proven himself to a lot of people. He's been sitting in heaven, she'll laugh. The rock and roll drifter with a God complex had a magnetism and message that was spreading all around the world, including here in Australia. And before long, dozens of people were following David Koresh.

There were Branch Davidians from Canada, England, even Israel. I was very excited about meeting this prophet. New Zealander Grace Adams is telling her story on American network television for the very first time. In 1990, Grace, who was 29, and her younger sister Rebecca, just 21, made the exhausting 7,500-mile journey, arriving at the Waco compound at about 11 at night. Grace says they walked into a hellish scene.

David was on stage on a hospital bed and he was yelling and screaming and cussing. And were there children in the room? Yes there were children. He had a boat paddle and he was hitting that boat paddle on the stage. I'm thinking who is this man? I'm thinking well what did we come to i knew i was supposed to be scared of him joanne viega was just a toddler in 1987 when her parents neil and margarita moved the family from hawaii to waco to be with david koresh there's open fields everywhere there's other kids to play with at first joanne thought the compound was like a summer camp. It was me and my mom on a bunk bed. I had the top, she had the bottom, but I just remember it being very peaceful.

This is where we belonged. A true believer to this day, Clive Doyle was one of the long-timers in the Branch Davidians. Doyle joined in the 60s, long before David Koresh. It was a Spartan life. There was no plumbing, so we would go to the bathroom in a bucket and take it outside and bury it. Were you well fed there? The food was very basic. While the women did the cooking, the men tended to the 77-acre property. What did you do in your spare time? Spare time really didn't exist. There's a madman living in Waco. Koresh, seen here in a video shot by A Current Affair, could sometimes get violent,

even with one of his own children, including a four-year-old son he fathered the only time he was legally married to Rachel Jones, a 14-year-old girl. I remember one night we were getting ready for dinner and you just hear him just wailing on his son and it kept going on for a long amount of time. You don't know him. What are they doing? Joanne says Koresh also took pleasure in verbally humiliating his followers, including her own father. I heard him yell at my dad. To me, it seemed like it went on for a good, like, hour.

Would he curse at him? Yeah. To me, that was normal. She says Koresh made everyone fear the outside world. There was a huge gate. You were not allowed to go anywhere near that. What were you told was out there? Bad people. I remember one time, he goes, you know what? You and I are in a cult. Koresh said that?

He did, yeah. Mark Brough says Koresh's mind control took a sinister turn in 1989 when he announced a new revelation from God. He called it the new light. The new light, in a nutshell, was that all the women of the world belonged to him. But Brough was having none of it. And did he say anything to you about your wife? Yeah, he said, you know, what do you think now that you know I'm going to be with Elizabeth? Was he going to hand me over to David Koresh? That was a question that I had because I'm not going if you are. And for you, that was the breaking point?

Yeah, I was already planning on leaving. I could see that things were getting out of control. But Grace Adams says there were plenty of sexual targets at the compound. As a woman, you needed to have sex with David in order to go to heaven. And Grace Adams insists it wasn't just the adult women. What kind of ages are we talking about? I'm talking 12 plus. And he get pregnant by him? Yes. Grace says she was terrified Koresh would choose her for sex. I was so frightened that this thing may happen that I started to flip out I guess. But instead of retreating, she wanted to get it over with and decided to knock on his door

at about 3 in the morning. I was offering myself to him. What does Christ write? He flew into a rage, claiming God made all his sexual selections. Koresh then woke everyone up and began screaming at Grace in front of the group. What? What truth? It was then that he decided that I needed to be isolated in a cabin. She says Koresh locked her in a 10 by 8 foot room under 24 hour guard for nearly four months.

She was fed from a bowl on the floor. I was treated like a prisoner. Are you essentially in solitary confinement? Yeah. My mind did get messed up. One time, Koresh entered her room and the abuse suddenly turned physical. He slapped me around on my face. She says she begged him to let her leave. Koresh refused. Then, when he learned Grace's visa had expired and that immigration authorities may come looking for her, he relented.

God said, you can go now. It's time for you to go. Grace did leave, but was so traumatized by her experience, she spent more than two weeks at a California hospital in a psychiatric ward. Grace then flew home to New Zealand, but her sister stayed behind at the compound, where Koresh was no longer only predicting Armageddon, but preparing for it. Why the heck would the Branch Davidians be making hand grenades? I don't know. It wouldn't be to help people. Showtime, showtime.

Showtime. No choppers in. Bring them in, bring them in. What happened at the Branch Davidian compound in 1993 had its genesis years earlier, after David Koresh had made a series of trips to Israel. Koresh had told his followers the apocalypse, the end of days, would occur there. And he believed that we were going to go over there and there was going to be a war. But the bros who had left the cult were secretly working to sabotage Koresh's plans from back home in Australia. Mark and I approached the Israeli consulate here in Melbourne and told them. And all of a sudden, they shut that down.

Brough says Israeli authorities kicked Koresh out of the country. It was then, the Brough say, that Koresh decided to bring the apocalypse to Waco. Oh no, by the way, I've had a new revelation. It's all going to happen here. Robert Cervenka, a local rancher, has kept this secret from the public for almost a quarter century. One day, he saw 20 Davidians in combat fatigues open fire in a field. They weren't firing at bullseye targets.

They were firing at men's silhouette targets. Practicing to shoot human beings. That's what it looked like. Even more disturbing, Robert, who is an Army veteran, heard the distinct sound of a.50 caliber machine gun.

He quietly told police. It looked like they were preparing for a war. He quietly told police. They said like, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. It looked like they were preparing for a war. A lot of the men started wearing army fatigues, and they started looking more like a militia than a religious group. I went to work for them in Waco. Larry Gilbreth remembers it was around 1991 when he began noticing that those packages he was regularly delivering to the Davidians

were getting bigger and heavier. I would pull in right here, and I would pull up to the gate. And he realized the Davidians were using this building as a checkpoint. And they would come out and unlock the gate and let me in, and I would take the package inside there. Where the boxes could be inspected. Larry then drove them to the compound where koresh sometimes greeted him and i'd say probably 75 percent of the time when i would get there david

always came out he signed for a lot of them it would only be later that larry would learn the exact contents of his cargo. I delivered ammunition for.223s, AK-47s, AR-15s, and big magazines. Even a grenade launcher. Hello? What did you just say? A grenade launcher. The Davidian arms race turned even more ominous in February 1992, when Larry was checking a box in his truck, and his life flashed before his eyes.

There was a box on the top shelf. I moved it and about six to eight grenades fell out of it. Hand grenades? Hand grenades. Did you jump back? I did. He says the grenade casing scared him so much, he told his wife, Deborah, about what he'd seen.

It was scary. I mean, you're talking about... Like Larry, Deborah has never told her story publicly... All right, Deborah, you want to join us? ...until she decided to join our interview... Let's see. We'll get you all mic'd up here. ...while the cameras were rolling.

I mean, you're talking about your family. And when Mama Bear's family gets threatened, Mama Bear reacts. Deborah told the Sheriff's Department about the grenade casings and the extraordinary amount of arms going into the compound. Somebody had to do something. The Sheriff called the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the ATF. the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the ATF. Larry showed them receipts of the arms shipments, and that's when the ATF started investigating.

Special Agent Bill Buford was one of the ATF agents in charge. We started the surveillance about the first part of January of 1993. From this house across the street from the compound, From this house across the street from the compound, a rotating team of ATF agents watched the Davidians every move. We knew they were spying on us. In fact, Larry began working closely with the ATF, even participating in an undercover operation. They told me, we're going to send an ATF agent, ride with you on this delivery today. But there was a problem. He had hair down to his shoulders and he looked nothing like a UPS person. They knew what we looked like.

Said they're going to make you in two minutes after you step off the truck. And out of nowhere, David just looks at me and says, Larry, I know they're watching us. I went numb. After two months of reconnaissance, ATF headquarters authorized them to take action. The mission, arrest David Koresh, confiscate any illegal weapons, and keep the children safe.

In this video, shot before the raid and never broadcast until tonight, Bill Buford is seen briefing his troops. We've got nothing to do but go ahead and run the plan just the way we're going to run it. If we came rolling up in a SWAT van, it would be very obvious what was going on, and we needed the surprise. Buford and his team came up with an unusual idea, a Texas Trojan horse. Truck one, truck two, we're about one mile off. They would drive onto the property in two pickup trucks pulling cattle trailers

with about 35 armed agents in each, hiding under canvas tarps. We drove in down this driveway and pulled up right here. Everything is clear. Windows are clear, truck one and two. Full speed ahead, full speed ahead. Bring them choppers in. Come on.

Within seconds, the ATF's mission went terribly wrong. Showtime. Showtime, showtime. Get heavy fire. Keep firing, we're taking. The Davidians were lying in wait. Having been inadvertently tipped off by a TV cameraman, it was about 9.45.m february 28 1993.

the davidians and the atf each swear the other fired first joanne viega rushed to look out her bedroom window on the second floor i just see black dots running toward us. I had no idea what it was. If they got a target, give us a target. My mom grabbed me off the bed. She put me on the floor. It's a cowboy! I ran to put my two older children down.

Sheila Martin was right down the hall from Joanne. By the time I reached for my 10-year-old son, all this glass started breaking around him. He started screaming. Shots were just coming into the building. Her husband, Wayne, called 911. There are 75 men around our building and they're shooting at us. Tell them there are children and women in here and to call it off. At that point, everyone had a gun. There was bullet holes everywhere. There were people lying on the floor that were dead. It was war. Our job was to go on the roof and take over the arms room and Koresh's bedroom.

Both objectives were on the second floor. Fire, we're taking fire. You can see Buford in the video from that day, crouched on the roof and taking heavy fire. Taking fire, we're taking flashbangs on in. I took a flashbang and threw it in the window. When I get through the window, there's a man standing in the room with an AK-47, and I shot him several times.

Seconds later, Buford, like this agent, was shot. We got one man down. We got a man down on the roof. Once creased across the nose, once in the hip, once in the thigh, and once right square in the butt. Once in the hip, once in the thigh, and once right square in the butt. The thing I remember is the slow motion

as the rounds would come through the wall and the splinters were sticking in my face as they came off. And I thought, I'm not going to let them kill me in here. Buford, on the hood of this vehicle, was rescued by fellow agents. Larry Gilbreth was at his sister's house Buford, on the hood of this vehicle, was rescued by fellow agents. Larry Gilbreth was at his sister's house when the ATF raid went down. And I said, holy crap, these guys are getting massacred out there.

ATF will cease fire, if they will cease fire, and we'll pull back. The ATF asked the Davidians for a ceasefire. Four agents were killed in the raid, 28 wounded. The Branch Davidians lost six people that day. Four others were wounded, among them David Koresh, who was shot in the wrist and side. Here's one of them. And for now, the shooting stopped. and side. Here's one of them. And for now, the shooting stopped.

Thank God. Let's go. As awful as the firefight was, it was just the beginning. Get out of here! Get the out of here! Get the out of here! I'm going out! In the aftermath of the bloodiest gun battle in ATF history, Bill Buford now wishes he would have stood up and refused to lead that assault.

It turns out the ATF knew the Davidians were expecting them. Should your bosses have called off that raid? The raid should not have gone forward, absolutely not. Within hours, the FBI took over. Two teams would deploy, one group to negotiate, the other a tactical team. Special Agent Byron Sage was one of the main negotiators. It was by far the most devastating, demanding experience that I've ever gone through in 46 years in law enforcement. Sage got on the phone to the compound. Your primary point of contact is the negotiation team

of which I am in charge during the day. Want to see one of the holes here? The FBI sent in a video camera, hoping Koresh would record scenes from inside. You come point guns in the direction of my wives and my kids. Back inside the compound, David Koresh was defiant in this telephone call with the FBI. Four ATF agents were killed here.

No one has ever been confronted with a shore force like they saw that day. Sage knew every minute of this siege was a matter of life and death. Our primary goal was to get the kids out of harm's way. On March 2, 1993, after four days of tense negotiations, David Koresh agrees to surrender. But there is one condition. If we will facilitate airing a 58-minute tape, he and all of his people will come out. Dallas radio station KRLD played the tape. I, David Koresh, agree upon the broadcasting of this tape to come out peacefully.

They never came out. He said, my God told me to wait. The hostage rescue team began bringing in tanks closer to the building. After hours of talks, Koresh began releasing some children in pairs. They were taken to a nearby church. Seven-year-old Joanne Vyaga was one of the lucky ones, but her parents, loyal followers of David Koresh, willingly stayed behind. You have no clue what's happening and your mom just kind of gives you a kiss and she was very calm. She was very confident about her decision and I didn't have a choice.

In this rarely seen video, Joanne is being counseled by Dr. Bruce Perry, a child psychologist brought in by Child Protective Services. Joanne has never seen this video. Even looking at it now, I'm like, why don't I remember any of these things? How did you end up in the compound? Like, why don't I remember any of these things? How'd you end up in the compound? Huh? What'd you go there with?

She wasn't that verbal. She disconnected from the intensity of what was happening. Dr. Perry is trying to get a sense of what was happening inside the compound, as well as what Koresh's plans may be. What did he say? He just told me a good thing. 48 Hours was there when Joanne left Waco almost 25 years ago. Say bye.

Bye-bye. David Koresh made another unexpected move. He ordered Sheila Martin to leave with three of her children, leaving behind her four other children and her husband Wayne. I just knew trusting God was the most important thing. By the end of the fifth day of the siege, 21 children had been released from the compound, but more than two dozen remained behind. Day nine, Koresh tells negotiators no other children are coming out.

They're willing to die for David Koresh. Fearing a mass suicide, Byron Sage implores Koresh to let his people go. We need to get this resolved now. People are curbing in there. We need to get this done. The FBI tactical unit begins to turn up the heat by turning off all electrical power into the compound. They started shining lights into the compound. They started playing crazy noises of weird songs. Fourteen days in, with pressure mounting,

David Koresh's mother hires famous defense attorney Dick DeGaran to negotiate a peaceful surrender. I was doing what a lawyer is supposed to do and that is investigate the case. DeGaran says he didn't condone the Davidians using deadly force, but once they were under fire, he could understand it. You have the right to defend yourself. You don't have to wait to be killed and let it be sorted out in court. He wanted it to end peacefully, but he also had his own agenda.

Which was? His agenda was being able to write his explanation of the seven seals. The seven seals is a mystifying passage found deep within the book of Revelation. He was saying to me that he would come out as soon as he wrote the seven seals. It's now day 49. Koresh is writing his biblical manifesto and has no idea that Attorney General Janet Reno has just approved a plan to tear gas the compound.

Is that appropriate to introduce into an environment where there are all these children? We did it because we believed that those parents remaining in there would grab those kids and get them out. Day 51, April 19th. Just before 6 a.m., government tanks began ramming the main building to deliver the tear gas in hopes of ending the siege. This is not an assault. The gas you smell and will continue to detect is a non-lethal tear gas. All I was focused on was trying to get them out. You are under arrest. This standoff is over.

But the horror that followed, Sage says, was unimaginable. I think at the time I was probably in shock. I was stunned. We can see flames from two miles away. Now the flames, oh my goodness. The compound became a hell on earth. The question is, what about the people inside, what about the children? When that fire started, I'm screaming at the TV. Why aren't they coming out?

And there goes the building, more of it. It's awful. It's awful seeing those people burnt alive. Grace Adams was watching on TV as her sister perished inside. I had been following the whole thing, you know. Sheila Martin was watching on TV too, knowing her husband and four of her children were burning. I realized all those young children died. Somehow, nine adults escaped the inferno.

I'm looking at these Davidians that have come out. Not one of them brought a child. I'm heart sick. Nearly two dozen children died, along with more than 40 adults, including David Koresh. Autopsies revealed shocking details of how some of the Davidians died.

As that fire raged, there were people who killed one another, who killed themselves, who killed their children. David Koresh actually had a bullet wound into the center of his head. In the ashes, investigators uncovered an arsenal of more than 300 guns, including 48 fully automatic assault rifles and several live grenades. One person who emerged alive was Clive Doyle. Doyle took the time to rescue a dog, leaving his 18-year-old daughter behind.

I didn't know exactly where she was. So you go running through the compound looking for her. When you're in those kind of conditions, you don't always make the smartest choices. I kick myself that I didn't rescue somebody or help somebody, my daughter or somebody else. But you're so traumatized, you're so in pain, that you don't think straight. These people, they have to live with the decisions and actions that they took.

Survivors insist that federal tanks started the blaze by knocking over lanterns. Sage, however, says that secretly recorded FBI audio tapes prove that Branch Davidians ignited the fatal fires. You're speaking to the police, right? Me? You want to go on? Pouring flammable liquids. Come on, come on. Come on from here. Byron Sage is convinced Clive Doyle had a hand in that. His hands were burned.

Clive Doyle had a hand in that. His hands were burned. And the only reason for that, according to the doctors, is that they were permeated with diesel fuel. Is the reason why you weren't able to go get your daughter is because you were spreading fuel and igniting the place? That's what the FBI would like, is to blame me. Did you participate in any way? No.

Whose feet do you lay the majority of the blame on? I say absolutely David Koresh. I've never failed at much in my life, but I failed every day. It crosses my mind. For 25 years. None of this was my choice. We had no animosity toward anybody. After all these years, this still gets to you. Yeah. When people see the names, they're just names. I see faces.

If given time, if the FBI had shown more patience, he may have finished the writing of these seven seals and walked out of that building? I think so. So why wouldn't they wait? You know, that's bothered me for a long time. Despite the massive loss of life, despite knowing today that David Koresh had sex with children, Clive Doyle, Sheila Martin, and

others believe their messiah will make one last dramatic entry. We believe there's a special resurrection that will take place and David and all those that died will come back and we'll be reunited with them. Joanne Viaga's parents perished in the flames. I was robbed. Her mother has sometimes come to her in a dream.

It's one of those dreams that you wake up from when your body and your mind are so sure that they're real, but they're not. In some ways, have you thought about this? She saved your life. I think about that all the time. Your mother saved you.

Mm-hmm. Joanne today is a wife and mother of two. She and her husband help run a restaurant in California. Her life is a rejection of the man who once terrified her. You're not going to be defined by David Koresh. Absolutely not. To me, he's the boogeyman. He's the person that you want your children to never come across.

In my life right now, he's no one. He's nothing to me. There were five major investigations. The Justice Department blamed Koresh. The Treasury Department was critical of its own ATF officers. The Treasury Department was critical of its own ATF officers. Congress, as well as a $17 million independent review, was critical of both the ATF and the FBI. The Waco tragedy changed the way law enforcement reacts and responds to similar standoff situations. Eleven Branch Davidians, including Clive Doyle, were tried for conspiracy to murder ATF officials.

Nine were convicted on lesser charges and served prison time. Clive Doyle was acquitted of all charges. No Branch Davidian was ever charged with arson. For more of what investigators found in David Koresh's home videos, Join us online at 48hours.com.