48 Hours - The Lost Boy

Episode Date: April 15, 2018

More than three decades after 6-year-old Etan Patz went missing, police found a surprising suspect. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. We are trying to locate a lost child by the name of Athon Pace. He is only six years old. He weighs 50 pounds, 40 inches tall, blonde hair, and blue eyes.

It's not like a case, you know, nowadays where you may have surveillance video, you may have social media. So if this case was going to get solved, you guys had to solve it. You had to walk, you had to talk to people. We had to look at everything over again, take a fresh look, and we just kept pressing forward. We just kept looking at everything over and over and over again. Every missing child case is very important important but this was one of the oldest ones we had. It was 30 something years worth of investigative steps. Six year old boy, you know. Six. I think it was one of the most significant unsolved cases in the history of New York City.

When Eitan was lost in 1979, I think the city was in more of an innocent state of mind. I mean, this is the first day he walked to the school bus. You could stand at that door and you could see the school bus stop. It's like right there. We have always felt that he's alive. We have always kept up our hope that we would get him back. We can't determine when it's going to end or if it's going to end. And we will keep hope and we will keep looking.

That photo will always haunt me. And every single day that I sent my son out to school, I thought of Eitan Paisley. And I was one of eight million New Yorkers like that. This is Washington Square Park, and this is significant because Jose Ramos, who was the main suspect in the case, said he met a boy over there by the fountain, molested the kid, and then said he let him go. They're trying to hook me up with Pace. That's bulls**t. When you looked at the evidence concretely about Jose Ramos, it was lacking.

Look at this. See this here? Back in 2010, Lieutenant Zimmerman had approached me, and he said, hey, you might have taken another look at this case. Cadaver dog. Cadaver dog. And indicated the presence of human remains

during the search here. The case was always open, always looking for the needle in the haystack. We have a suspect in custody who is... A dead-end lead that forced the truth out of hiding. ...the disappearance of Eitan Pate's... The call comes into our office, onto the phone right next to my desk. Did you ever heard the name Pedro Hernandez before?

No, sir. I grabbed him by the neck. Mm-hmm. And I started to by the neck. Mm-hmm. And I started to choke in here. Do you recognize this person? Yeah, that's him. The facts of that confession make no sense. He's unreliable because of his psychiatric condition.

You thought you were looking at the man who killed Eitan Pates? Yes. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney,

I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk-takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best-selling video game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye?

Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. After more than 30 years, it took a new team of investigators and a new prosecutor to breathe new life into an old case,

trying to find out what happened to Eitan Paints, District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr. You really should never close the book on a case if you think there's the possibility that it can be solved. the book on a case if you think there's the possibility that it can be solved. In 2012, investigators were literally digging for clues just blocks away from where Eitan was last seen. After thousands of dead-end leads, the public held its collective breath, hoping this time the case might finally be solved. Yes, I wish I hadn't let him go to the bus stop that morning alone. Eitan Pates was just six years old, and like many kids that age, he wanted some independence. And like many kids that age, he wanted some independence.

It was 1979, the last day of school before the Memorial Day weekend, and Eitan's mother, Julie, finally agreed to let Eitan walk alone to the school bus stop. It was just two blocks away from their Manhattan apartment. My feelings that morning were very positive about his going. Eitan was carrying a book bag and a dollar to buy a soda at the corner store near the bus stop. And then he seemed to vanish. Julie and her husband Stan didn't realize their son was missing until that afternoon when he didn't come home from school. Julie called the school and learned Eitan never arrived,

and his friends never saw him at the bus stop. So she called the police. I didn't want to start with something bad happened to him. I would rather start in my mind, in my heart, that it was just a missing person. Former NYPD detective Patrick Ionello immediately headed to the Pates' home. And then we started to knock on doors. Anyone see this boy? We worked all that day, we worked all that night,

and then the following day I got home. And I was ready to break down myself. Because? Because I saw my son. And he was Zayton's age a command center was set up right in the paces apartment both my wife and I are continue to be confident that he is alive and we hope he's being cared for by someone who might want a child as adorable as he. The police did not know us. We had to be cleared of suspicion as well as many other people. Eitan's image was splashed on storefronts and in newspapers.

Eitan's father is a professional photographer and took many photos of his son. These pictures captured the public's heart and captured Eitan's spirit. He's just bubbling over with life. He always saw the positive side where other people saw the negative. He's just an incredible person.

Our six-year-old boys a loving trusting child we think an adult could have convinced him to come with him the police canvassed the neighborhood talking to people on the street interviewing workers at a corner store near the school bus stop. Hi, Warren. Hi. You heard anything? Anything she suggested? Nope.

Anybody talking? Anybody saying anything? Nothing at all. Okay, thanks a lot. Keep your ears open. The longer we've gone without any bad news, I think that's good. Detective Bill Butler was Ianello's partner. He was last seen at 7.55 a.m. We have leads. We don't know where we're going to end up

on the leads that we have now. They pronounce it Eitan. When you go this long on something like this, you do, you feel like you're looking for your own son. The search for Eitan dragged on. Detective Butler, a father with six children, lived and breathed the case. How did this case influence Bill Butler? More than I could imagine. He was very, very tied into the case. More than I could imagine.

He was very, very tied into the case. In 1986, Bill Butler took his own life. And there was speculation his frustration with this case may have been part of the reason why. The search went on without Butler. Julie and Stan had two other children to protect, Eitan's older sister and younger brother. We keep saying we try to lead normal lives, but in so many small ways, it's just totally impossible.

I mean, we have his belongings all over the house, and yet to put them away is saying to us and to our children that he's gone and he's not coming back. And if we're patient, we'll get him back. But their patience went unrewarded. The Pateses did everything they could to keep their story in the news and that helped other missing children. Everyone says how many, where, why, what happens to them. In the 1980s milk cartons showed Eitan's face and then those of others but Eitan remained among the missing.

the missing. By 1998, a new detective was heading the missing person squad. Phil Mahoney was drawn to the case by, of all things, a poem titled The Missing Boy. It's about a mother and son looking at Eitan's missing poster. I read that poem and I said, that's it. I want to work on the Eitan Pace case. It was pretty much inactive. It had been inactive for many years. It was cold. It was colder than gold. We had to find the reports, put them back together. Mahoney sorted through nearly two decades worth of work

and some bizarre tips. This tip about this cult in Westchester. Did that source say that Eitan was there? Yeah, that Eitan was killed by that cult and dumped. The leads led nowhere, but there was someone who police were very interested in. Jose Ramos, a man who said he may have encountered a boy in Washington Square Park,

not far from where the Pateses lived. Did he say it was Eitan Pates? He has said he was 90% sure it was Eitan Pates. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. The scary cult classic was set in a Chicago housing project. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. Candyman. Candyman? Now, we all know chanting a name won't make a killer magically appear.

But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. We're going to talk to the people who were there, and we're also going to uncover the larger story. My architect was shocked when he saw how this was created. Literally shocked. And we'll look at what the story tells us about injustice in America. If you really believed in tough on crime, then you wouldn't make it easy to crawl into medicine cabinets and kill our women. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island.

It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still have urged it. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones, and for almost two years, I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it,

people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. In 1982, Jose Ramos was picked up by police for stealing some books from children. He was homeless, living in a drainage tunnel in New York City,

and former Lieutenant Phil Mahoney recalls Ramos had some disturbing photos. He had a bunch of photos of kids that looked like Eitan Pates. He was a shaky character, so he enjoyed looking at these photos. So Ramos was questioned enjoyed looking at these photos. So Ramos was questioned by investigators about the photos. What is it about that people say looks like Eitan? The smile, I think. How about the hair?

Maybe the hair. Not that much. Susan used to take care of him, Susan Harrington. Susan Harrington, Ramos's girlfriend, walked Eitan to school during a bus strike shortly before Eitan disappeared. Did you know when he lived? In Soho. Investigators suspected Ramos was a pedophile who could have ties to Eitan. There was enough there. There was a lot there to draw attention to him, certainly.

PAUL SOLMAN, Eitan often played in Washington Square Park, a place Ramos was known to visit. RAYMOND RAMOS, Jose Ramos has said several times that, on May 25, 1979, he was here, and a young, small, seven-ish, blonde kid came up to him and started talking to him. And Jose Ramos said at that point, he eventually took the kid back to his apartment. Ramos told that story to federal prosecutor Stuart Grabois, who had been working the case since 1985. Grabois and the FBI had, through the years, tracked leads around the world. But they always came back to Ramos. In June 1988, Ramos was brought to my office and proceeded to state that he was 90% sure

that the young boy he took that day, May 25, 1979, was the same boy whose picture he saw both in newspaper and on television, that being Eitan Pates. Investigators learned Ramos had sexually molested children around the country. One of the things he did was to travel around the United States in a converted school bus, giving out matchbox cars and toys and baseball cards to children, to young boys, to entice them onto the bus. Grabois wanted to prosecute Ramos even if it wasn't for the Eitan Pates case. He succeeded in Pennsylvania. In 1990, Ramos pled guilty to molesting an eight-year-old boy and was sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison. You've got a known pedophile who says that he's 90 percent sure that he picked up

Eitan Pates, you know, around the time that he disappeared. Why didn't you just go, OK, case closed? Because you didn't have that corroborating evidence. You didn't have that one person who said, yeah, I saw him and Eitan in Washington Square Park. Investigators hunted for more evidence. In 2000, Mahoney ordered a search of an apartment building Ramos lived in when Eitan disappeared. Ramos had allegedly told a fellow inmate, this is where he disposed of Eitan's body. When he was in jail, Jose Ramos said that he put Eitan into the furnace in the basement.

This building? This building. And, you know, burned up the body. But like so many tips in the Eitan Pates case, nothing came of it. There was just never that next thing to make you say, yep, that's it, close the books, we got the guy. Mahoney felt they didn't have enough on Ramos to charge him with Eitan's disappearance. Neither did the Manhattan DA at the time.

But Stan Pates and Stuart Grabois were becoming more convinced Ramos was their man. I believe this man stalked my son. I believe he lured him back to his apartment. I think he used him like toilet paper and I think he threw him away. Brian O'Dwyer is a prominent New York attorney and started representing the Pateses. He was friends with Stuart Grabois and in 2000, he approached Grabois with an idea. I said, you know, you have an opportunity, you may not have thought about it, but of taking a civil case against Ramos. It would be a wrongful death suit.

O'Dwyer hoped Ramos would be subpoenaed and might say something incriminating to help bring a criminal case. But before the wrongful death case could proceed, O'Dwyer had to ask the Pateses to officially give up hope. They would have to ask a court to declare their son dead. It's one of the toughest things I've ever done in my practice. And on June 19, 2001, a judge declared that Eitan Pates was officially dead. I used to have fantasies of a taxi cab pulling up in front and Eitan coming out of it. But that was a long time ago. I don't entertain those fantasies anymore. The Pates' attorney went to the Pennsylvania prison where Ramos was being held to interview the man he believed had killed Eitan Pates.

This was evil incarnate. If I met him on the street, I would have been very scared. And what did he say? He said that, yes, indeed, he was on the street that day, and he picked up a little boy by the name of Jimmy. This time, Ramos did not say Eitan's name. Were you convinced that Ramos was the guy? Absolutely. Ramos would never answer more questions or testify in court, and the Pateses won the civil case against him. Once and for all, at least have a final declaration by a court of law that Jose Antonio Ramos caused the death of Eitan Pates. It was a victory, but it was not the end of the fight.

The ultimate objective was to get a criminal prosecution. Did you think it was enough to prosecute him criminally? I did. The Manhattan DA disagreed. He still would not charge Jose Ramos. He thought he couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Do you keep thinking about this case, or did you move on? No, I never moved on.

Never moved on. Jose Antonio Ramos was in prison, unpunished, for what he believed was the death of Eitan Bates. But 33 years after Eitan disappeared, there was a tip. This is where it all started. And it could change everything in this case. I think about my son every day. He's gone, but I will never forget him. As time passed for Stan and Julie Pates, Eitan was and is frozen in time as a six-year-old gone missing. They remained convinced that Jose Ramos, the pedophile who was behind bars in Pennsylvania, was responsible for Eitan's death.

I send them a poster twice a year, and I write on the back, what did you do to my little boy? From the time Eitan disappeared in 1979 until 2009, one man held the position of Manhattan DA, Robert Morgenthau. He never felt there was enough evidence to indict Ramos. But Morgenthau was retiring. I support Cy Vance. And Cyrus Vance Jr. was running for the office.

The Pates family reached out to me, and Stan asked me if I would look into the case. Stan asked me if I would look into the case. And when Vance became Manhattan DA in 2010, he did look into it. Side Vance was like, listen, we'd like to read, you know, fresh set of eyes, re-look at it, go backwards, see what was missed. Lieutenant Chris Zimmerman headed the missing person squad at the time. And part of the fresh look included another look at Jose Ramos. We looked at the case for quite a while, and I never was convinced that there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Jose Ramos was Eitan's killer. And so the search for another suspect continued. The FBI had been involved on and off since Eitan's disappearance. In April of 2012, investigators took another look at this handyman who used to work for the Pateses.

Along with the NYPD, they started that dig. It was at the former site of the handyman's workshop. We're executing a search warrant regarding the disappearance of Eitan Pates. It was not far from where the Pates's still lived. The dig went on for five days as investigators sifted through subterranean spaces and decades-old dirt. It was starting to look like there might finally be some answers. We're cautiously optimistic we'll find evidence. In the end, nothing was found. The handyman was cleared.

At this point, there's no obvious human remains. But this was not just another dead end. Far from it. In fact, it led to the first major turning point in this case. The call comes into our office, onto the phone right next to my desk. It came from Jose Lopez, who called police after he watched news coverage of the dig. Can you tell us what brought you to the police? Thank you very much. He said his brother-in-law might be involved in the case. Detective Dave Ramirez helped lead the

investigation. And who was his brother-in-law? Pedro Hernandez. Did you ever heard the name Pedro Hernandez before? No, sir, no. What did he tell you about his brother-in-law? Pedro Hernandez. Had you ever heard the name Pedro Hernandez before? No, sir, no. What did he tell you about his brother-in-law? That he had made statements to various people about him having done something really bad to a child in New York. Pedro Hernandez worked as a stock boy at that corner store by the bus stop. He was 18 when Eitan disappeared, and soon after, Hernandez left that job and moved home to New Jersey.

Over the years, he had been divorced, remarried, and had children. He worked on and off at menial jobs and had no criminal record, but he had told people about hurting an unnamed child. So who had Hernandez spoken to? There was a religious group. Apparently there was a retreat that they had gone on. They all had information to the fact that Mr. Hernandez did something to this child. Ramirez learned Hernandez also told his ex-wife and a friend similar stories. Detectives' notes from 1979 show police at the time knew Hernandez worked at the store, but it is unclear if he was ever questioned. Why do you suppose he was not a suspect before? I don't have the answer for it.

I wasn't there. You know, I never got clarity on that, and I don't think he did either. About two weeks after they learned about Hernandez, on May 23rd, 2012, police went to his New Jersey home to talk to him. I had told him that we were investigating an old missing persons case in New York City. At that point, he lost all the color in his face. Still, Hernandez readily agreed to go to the prosecutor's office in Camden, New Jersey, to be questioned. Was it hard to get him talking? No, no. He talked for six hours without a lawyer or a recording of the conversation. And during that time, he was shown a missing poster of Eitan Pates. Later, the video camera was turned on. Can you start telling us again exactly what you told us before about what

happened? And Hernandez told them about seeing a boy outside the store where he worked. He was waiting for the school bus. Who was waiting for the school bus? The kid. What's his name? Hayton Pate. These are the words that changed the course of one of America's most heartbreaking cold cases. Hernandez went on, telling police he offered Eitan a soda. It is hard to listen to his story. What made you do this? I don't know. Yeah, when I choked him, he went like this. What made you do this? I don't know. You don't know?

It was something that just happened. He signed Eitan's missing poster, writing, I am sorry, and choke him. And you recognize this to be the boy that you choked that day? Yes. After the confession, Hernandez showed investigators where he said it happened 33 years earlier. Lieutenant Zimmerman recorded the walk with his cell phone. So Hernandez told you here that this was the basement entrance?

Yes. So according to Hernandez, Eitan was that way from where we are. Yes. And he lured him into the basement through this door. Yes, sir. Hernandez said he put Eitan in a box after choking him. Put him in a box. And then put the box on his shoulder. Carry the box up out of here. At this point, I said, could you show us exactly the way you walked that day? We crossed the street onto the other side. And how far down did he go? Then he went down to the corner. He went this way, right? Yes, he crossed the street here and he stops here at

this location. He said he went down some steps. He took the body down here? Yes, and then he put the box down. Police believe the box was picked up by garbage collectors. Hernandez was interviewed again. Hey, this is Hernandez. Hours after the SoHo walk, this time by a prosecutor in the Manhattan DA's office. Then I shocked him and tried to let go, but I just couldn't let him go. He repeated the same story. And later that day, Pedro Hernandez was arrested. We have a suspect in custody who has made a statement to the NYPD implicating himself in the disappearance of Eitan Bates 33 years ago. He had confessed to killing Aytan Pates.

It was a credible confession. So says the prosecutor. But soon questions were being asked about the six hours when Hernandez was questioned before the videotaping began. Why weren't those first hours videotaped? See more of Pedro Hernandez' confession on Facebook at 48 hours. It was a day or two shy of the 33rd anniversary.

It was a day or two shy that we 33rd anniversary. It was a day or two shy that we made the arrest. This evening the New York City Police Department is announcing the arrest of Pedro Hernandez, age 51. Mr. Pace was taken aback, a little surprised, and I would say overwhelmed. You know, it had to sink in. 30-something know, it had to sink in. You know, 30-something years, it had to sink in. You know, I can't imagine not having an answer

for that many years. For decades, Stan and Julie Pates believed another man was responsible for their son's disappearance in 1979. I believe this man stalked my son. I want him to admit it. Now someone was admitting it. But it was this man, Pedro Hernandez.

He was waiting for his papers. And then he went down the stairs. When I checked, he went down the stairs. When I checked, he went back in. After Hernandez was arrested, he was thought to be a suicide risk and taken to Bellevue Hospital. I met him at the prison ward. Harvey Fishbein is Pedro Hernandez's court-appointed attorney. I walked out of there and I said,

the man has an issue that needs to be addressed. I hear voices sometimes talking to me. A defense psychiatrist diagnosed Hernandez with a personality disorder that can leave a person unable to differentiate between what's real and what's not. I had visions. Do you think Pedro Hernandez knows if he killed Eitan Petz or not? I think he knows he didn't. You think? Are you sure? It's hard to look into someone's mind, which is one of the real problems we have here.

The diagnosis of mental illness would be a major part of Hernandez's defense. And in January of 2015, two and a half years after his arrest, Hernandez went on trial for the murder of Eitan Pates. Eitan Pates's father walked silently past reporters in the courthouse, finally hoping to see justice serve nearly 36 years after his young son's disappearance. At trial, the defense would argue that Hernandez's mental illness made him make up the whole story of murdering Eitan, starting with seeing him by the bus stop. Pedro says, I saw him standing there. He was waiting for the bus. Yet no parent that was at the bus stop that morning who knew Eitan saw Eitan that morning.

So the fact that Pedro said that he saw the child there when no one else did immediately raises questions as to did this actually happen or not. questions as to did this actually happen or not. Hernandez told investigators he tried to hide Eitan's book bag in the basement of that store. So I took the book bag and I threw it behind the freezer. But Fishbein says the police would have searched that store and if they did, they should have found the bag or some other evidence. That bag was never recovered. The defense also argued that Hernandez has a low IQ and is susceptible to suggestions. We argued to the jury he's unreliable because of his low intellect, because of his psychiatric condition, and of course the story in the end does not make sense. But the prosecution experts interviewed Hernandez.

I'm going to say some words. And concluded he is not mentally ill and that the jury could believe his words. Prosecutors had home videos showing Hernandez socializing like anyone else. Hernandez socializing like anyone else. And they pointed out that Hernandez never reported any mental illness on a driver's license renewal form he filled out. Do you believe that he was competent to confess? Absolutely. I think there was ample evidence that Pedro Hernandez was not fabricating this homicide as the product of mental illness, but that he in fact was admitting to something that had tortured him, and he confessed. But Fishbein wants the jury to wonder what happened during those six hours before this videotaping began.

Can you start telling us again exactly what you just told us before? There was an affirmative decision not to videotape what was going on. All it would have taken was the pushing of a button. Why wasn't that taped? I think it was not taped because there was no legal requirement that it be taped. How do you know that they didn't feed him information? How do you know they didn't berate him? The way you assure yourself is by talking to the witnesses who were there.

After speaking to those who were present and being informed of what happened, I did not doubt that there was anything but a fair handling of Mr. Hernandez and the appropriate questioning of him. Did you give him any information about the crime when you were talking to Mr. Hernandez? No. Did you try and influence him? I wouldn't say. No. This was all of him just talking to you, volunteering this stuff?

Yes. The defense argued police preyed on Hernandez's vulnerability and manipulated him to confess. Pedro is a very religious person. One of the detectives says, thank you, Pedro. I can't forget to tell you how proud I am of you. That's the strength of the Lord. Right there is strength. That's the strength of the Lord. What's the strength of the Lord? That he said something that they said they needed in order to make people feel better, that family, to resolve it.

But the police would counter, and the prosecutors would counter, that this guy confessed to so many people over the years that he corroborates his own words. Well, they would like to say that. That's accurate, I know, and I don't think that's accurate. The prosecution called those church members, Hernandez's ex-wife. Who did you tell? You said you told your ex-wife, right?

And his friend, who all said Hernandez told them he did something bad to a young boy. But at the time, they never reported anything because they didn't know whether to believe him. If it was one statement in isolation, that would be one thing. There were a number of people to whom he unburdened himself. But Fishbein told the jury those accounts varied, and Hernandez may have been making them up to look tough. And he offered the jurors another suspect. The man many, including the Pates' first thought killed Eitan, Jose Ramos, the known pedophile whose girlfriend knew Eitan.

I feel certain that if the district attorney's office tried Jose Ramos, he would be convicted. The evidence against Pedro Hernandez was much stronger than it had ever been against Jose Ramos. The prosecutors had one piece of evidence they considered critical. It was something Hernandez said when he showed police where he said he dumped Eitan's body. He noticed there was a door where he didn't remember one. And he says, there wasn't a door there. When they researched the building's history, prosecutors discovered Hernandez was right. The door was added after 1979.

That's a fact that was not known publicly, that we believed only the killer would know. But the defense says Hernandez wasn't even sure which building it was. Which one? He said, I thought maybe this is it. And then he looks and he says, no, this is it. It was a lot for the jurors to sift through. The trial took nearly three months, and in April 2015, they began deliberating and deliberating for 18 days.

Hear more from investigators on what Pedro Hernandez showed them online at 48hours.com What happened after that? For 18 days, the jury considered Pedro Hernandez's confession to the murder of Eitan Pace. A big bone of contention was the mental health issue. We debated that for days. Adam Sirwa was one of the jurors. The other issue that was very sticky at first was the confession. Everyone felt very upset about not being able to see the entire interview. The jurors disagreed on whether the confession could have been coerced.

Twice they told the judge they were at an impasse. And the third time they reported they could not reach a verdict, on May 8, 2015. This has been a very long trial and a very long deliberation. The judge declared a mistrial. Our long ordeal is not over. When they said they were unable to reach a decision, we believed it was going to be 11 to 1 for acquittal. It was 11 to 1, but not for acquittal. Only one juror voted not guilty. It was Adam Sirwa. guilty. It was Adam Sirwa. He found the confession hard to believe, not knowing what went on before the camera started rolling. You know it's very hard for people to wrap their minds around the idea that somebody would confess to murdering a

child if he didn't actually do it. Yeah. And a lot of the jurors said that in our deliberations. But the whole reason why you don't just throw someone in jail when they confess is that there's a lot of people out there with mental illness that could confess to lots of crimes. And it doesn't mean they're all guilty. But the rest of the jurors believed Hernandez was guilty. Pedro Hernandez, you know what you did. Still, 11 out of 12 is not enough to convict. And Stan Pates was obviously disappointed. This man did it. He said it. How many times does a man have to confess before someone believes him?

Stan was unequivocal in his support that the case should be retired, and so we did. About a year and a half later, Pedro Hernandez went on trial again. The evidence and the issues were the same as the first trial. And, like the first trial, it was long, more than three months. And this trial also ended with a long deliberation. Nine days. Did it start feeling like the first time to you? Nothing felt like that 18 days the first time. But yes, it was reminiscent of that. And we were just trying to understand what was going on. It's impossible to try to read a jury. But unlike the first trial, this jury reached a verdict.

Pedro Hernandez was convicted of killing Eitan Pates 37 years after the first grader left home and vanished. The Pates family has waited a long time, but we finally have found some measure of justice for our wonderful little boy, Eitan. I am truly relieved, and I'll tell you, it's about time. It really is. It's about time. Pedro Hernandez was sentenced to 25 years to life. Why do you think this case was so hard to solve? Why did it take so long?

I think people had great intentions. I think people got focused on people like Ramos, not criticizing anybody independently, because it made a lot of sense. He's an evil man. He's just not our evil man. It's a feeling now shared by others who were once convinced Jose Ramos murdered Eitan Pates before police found Pedro Hernandez. If I were on the jury, I would have come with the same verdict. Do you still think of Eitan Pates? I do. What do you think about? It could have been my son. What do you think about? It could have been my son.

That is the thought that still haunts so many involved in this case. My kids are like 22, and I still think about it when they're out of sight and out of mind. We were kind of hoping that it would be like a movie ending where the boy would eventually walk in the door, but it didn't work out that way. I noticed a couple of times you've looked down at this. Yeah.

Why do you, does this still mean something? Yeah, this is the poster we remember the most, I would say. This is the kids looking right at me. I feel for the family. I'm a father myself, and so is Dave. Case is solved, but? Solved, but I never give them complete closure.

I couldn't give them their son back. Would have loved to give them their son back. Eitan would be 45 years old. His remains have never been found. Pedro Hernandez's legal team is working on an appeal. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey.