48 Hours - The Search for Jon Benet's Killer

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Is there new hope to solve the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey? Her father says there’s a way. Erin Moriarty reports.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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to ensure Canada is open for business. We can't afford more barriers to job creating natural resource investment. To learn more, visit don'tCapCanada.ca Tell me what's going on, okay? There's a note left in our daughter's phone. A note was left in your daughter's phone? Yes. How old is your daughter? Six years old. She's gone. Six years old.

She is forever frozen in time. John Benet Ramsey. Six years old, dressed for a beauty pageant, and we still don't know who killed her. The day after Christmas in 1996, John Benet was reported missing with a rambling ransom note left at the scene. Several hours later, she was found dead in her own home, bludgeoned and strangled. It was a media sensation. Suspicion fell on her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey.

The couple was never charged, but early on there was a police theory that Patsy Ramsey may have killed her daughter in a fit of rage over bed wedding and then covered it up. Now in his 80s, John Ramsey is still trying to clear his and Patsy's names. Finding the killer isn't going to change my life at this point, but it will change the lives of my children and my grandchildren. This cloud needs to be removed from our family's head and this chapter closed for their benefit. So there is an answer. I'll have more from that interview later but first

a time capsule. A look back at how 48 hours covered the story in 2002. If our DNA matched anything significant, they would have arrested us in a New York mint. Take a look at this. I did not kill my child. 48 Hours Investigates has obtained the police interrogation tapes of John and Patsy Ramsey, never made public until tonight. I don't give a flying flip how scientific it is. Go back to the damn drawing board. Aaron Moriarty heads up our six-month investigation.

I don't think the Ramseys did it, and I think they ought to start looking for people that did. 48 Hours Investigates, searching for a killer. She was the spark plug of our family. Because of this zest that she had, she just kept things alive and hopping. It's not the same without her. Why is it so hard for people to understand that we love this child with everything in our being? We would never touch a hair on the head of one of our children.

I mean, it just is inconceivable to me. Their faces are instantly recognizable, but John and Patsy Ramsey are famous in a way no one would want. Although they've never been publicly called suspects or charged with the 1996 death of their daughter, John Benet, they are resigned to a painful reality. We could find the killer tomorrow. He could be arrested, convicted, and jailed. And there would still be 20% of the population would think that we had something to do with it. Did your daughter have a bedwetting incident that night? Did you get up? Did you get angry?

And did you hurt her? No, I did not. What is your reaction when you know many people think that's what you did? They are wrong. I don't know what else to say. How else do you say no except no? No means no. Over the last several months we have spent a great deal of time with the Ramses,

these favorite villains of the tabloids, These big old tires make this hard to turn. and have seen them in a way few others have. Fishing box. That hadn't been used in a long time. On this day, just this past summer, John and Patsy Ramsey are moving. Life has never been the same and it has basically ruined us financially and emotionally and everything else. So we're scaling that.

This is my wedding dress. They are selling their million dollar home in Atlanta and moving to a smaller townhouse just down the road. John Ramsey, once the head of a billion dollar software company, hasn't worked for four years, while Patsy has been quite literally fighting for her life. In a rare, unguarded moment, without her makeup, without her wig, without even her eyebrows drawn in, you can clearly see the damage left by the return of her cancer. How did you find out? I was back in February for my annual checkup.

Nine years ago, Patsy learned she had stage four ovarian cancer. She made what she hoped was a full recovery. But earlier this year, she again went through debilitating chemotherapy. You lost your hair? Yes. It's growing back. My eyebrows are growing back. It all comes out, but you know what?

That's very little thing to worry about. In fact, Patsy Ramsey has much bigger concerns. Almost from the moment the body of their six-year-old daughter, John Bonet, was discovered, Boulder police believe John and Patsy killed their daughter and then staged a kidnapping, complete with a rambling two-and-a-half page ransom note, to cover it up. They've never investigated this case.

Other than to investigate the family, they have never investigated this case. Police say they haven't ruled out other theories. To this day, the Ramses remain the prime suspects, as you will see in this videotape, obtained exclusively by 48 hours. You have not classified any individual as a suspect publicly, correct? While testifying under oath in a civil case

just last November, Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner admitted what he had never before said publicly. Internally, John and Patsy are considered suspects. Both of them. Yes. Are considered to have probably been involved in the death of their daughter.

Probability, yes. Why do you think you remain probably the prime suspect in the eyes of their daughter? Probability, yes. Why do you think you remain probably the prime suspect in the eyes of the Boulder Police? I asked Mark Beckner that. I came closer to him in the face than I am to you, Aaron, and I said, tell me what it is that makes you think I killed my beautiful, precious child. And he said, well, well, it's just a lot of little things.

I think he really doesn't know. But because police didn't have enough evidence, sources within the investigation tell 48 Hours, the police tried to psychologically break the Ramseys, hoping one or both would confess. It was a strategy that was put in place to bring immense pressure on us to break us. That strategy, by some in the department, claims John Ramsey, included a relentless

campaign of leaks fed mostly to the nation's tabloids that had a devastating effect on public opinion. They convinced the public of guilt. Lynn Wood is John and Patsy Ramsey's attorney. You couldn't go to buy groceries for your family without passing headlines that said that John Ramsey had molested his first daughter. Absolutely false.

Headlines that John and Patsy Ramsey were panographers. Absolutely false. Headlines that they were devil worshippers, absolutely false. The Ramses believe that the Boulder Police still, to this day, continue to ignore evidence pointing to other suspects. It's frustrating, it's disappointing, it makes me angry. You say it makes you angry, but you don't seem angry. Do you think that's also hurt you in the eyes of the public?

Well, we're not soap opera actors. I suppose if I was an actor, I could act really angry. But I'm not. That's who I am. It's what you see. And I'm angry. this is angry for me angry because John Ramsey says a killer or killers remain free what I do know is that we didn't kill her daughter so let's look at the rest of the picture guys next on 48 hours investigates my life has been hell from that day forward the police interrogation of the Ramses you've never

seen before. Today's date is June 23, 1998. Brunfield Police Department right at the time is approximately 9.04. A year and a half after John Bonet was murdered, John and Patsy Ramsey, sitting in separate rooms, at the same time, were questioned by Boulder authorities in a Colorado police station. These tapes have never before been seen publicly. There's been a lot of speculation by a lot of people that maybe you didn't know anything about the murder of Navy Pansy. Questioning John is Lou Smith, a homicide detective then working for the Boulder DA's office.

It's preposterous. Patsy loves both her children dearly, but frankly she and Jabane were extremely close. A Christmas warning photo of the kids. Detective Tom Haney questioned Patsy, who at the time was taking medication for both anxiety and depression. If I told you right now that we have trace evidence

that appears to link you to the death of John Bonet, what would you tell me? That is totally impossible. Go retest. How is it impossible? I did not kill my child. I didn't have a thing to do with it. a thing to do with it.

And I'm not talking, you know, somebody's guess or some rumor or some story. I don't care what you're talking about. I'm talking about scientific evidence. I don't give a flying flip how scientific it is. Go back to the damn drawing board. I didn't do it. John Ramsay didn't do it, and we didn't have a clue of anybody who did do it. So we all got to start working together from this day forward to try to find out who the hell did it. 48 Hours Investigates has acquired these tapes, hours upon hours of footage that take you inside the investigation.

While the tapes show how strongly prosecutors believe John and Patsy Ramsey were responsible for the death of their daughter, frankly, there isn't a lot of physical evidence that links them. So questioners looked for inconsistencies and focused on minute details from the crime scene. What have you heard about the pineapple? Well, we were asked, you know, did John Benet eat pineapple? And because apparently it was found in her system.

I think part of the question was, what did she eat? And then she got home. I'm sure she didn't because she was absolutely sound asleep. The Ramses told police that John Benet had gone straight to bed that night and had not eaten at home. But autopsy results did find undigested pineapple in John Bonet's stomach. And police discovered fingerprints on a bowl of pineapple

left in the family's dining room on the morning of the murder. I didn't put the bowl there, okay? I did not put the bowl there. I would not do this, set it like that. But let's go back to your line of reasoning here. If they weren't, now, talk to me. Okay.

Look at me. Okay. If they're not yours and they're not John's, then they would be somebody else's. Right. But now, I'm telling you, they're not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the two of you. They do? You're sure?

Well, I don't know. I do not put that there. The fingerprints on the bowl are Patsy's, according to police, suggesting that she's the one who gave the fruit to her daughter. But if Patsy did give it to JonBenet and is lying about it, then investigators wondered, could she be lying about everything? You know, sometimes the simplest, most obscure little thing could be so significant. Right. I did not feed JonBenet, kind of. Okay. So I don't know how it got in her stomach.

I don't know where this whole pineapple came from. I can't recall putting that there. After three days of questioning, the interrogation in 1998 ended. And even though the Ramses were not indicted, Boulder authorities continued to believe they were guilty. So in August of 2000, prosecutors flew to Atlanta, where the Ramses were living, asking to see and hear new evidence. 48 Hours has also acquired those tapes.

If ever there were going to be an intruder on trial, the defense is going to be that you did it. Remember that? I remember that, but I'm not here to prove my innocence. I'm here to find a killer in my daughter. With John, prosecutors asked questions mostly about leads he had uncovered on other suspects. But with Patsy, interrogators were more accusatory, suggesting they had new evidence,

clothing fibers that would tie her directly to the murder. You were shown photographed wearing a red coat. It's kind of a black and red and gray fleece. Cut more like a blazer though. It's like a pea coat. Bruce Levin from the Boulder District Attorney's Office led the questioning. This is Ramsey. I have scientific evidence from forensic scientists that say that there's fibers in the paint

tray that match her red jacket. The paint tray is significant because a brush from it, along with some rope, was used to strangle and sexually abuse JonBenet. We believe that fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on John Benet's neck, were found on the blanket that she's wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that's found on her mouth. I have no evidence from any scientist to suggest that those fibers are from any source other than your red jacket.

Well, but yeah, that's, come on, I mean, what other sources did they test? Patsy's attorney, Lynn Wood, asked prosecutors to produce the evidence. When they wouldn't, he refused to let Patsy go on the record. But she did go on the record with us. What do you think about these fibers? After John discovered the body and she was brought to the living room, when I laid eyes

on her, I knelt down and hugged her. But I was, had my whole body on her body. My sweater fibers or whatever I had on that morning are going to transfer to her clothing. In all the questioning, the prosecutors focus more on Patsy than John, following their belief that she was the killer. John Bonet got up, and somebody in that house,

legally lawfully in that house, one of the three of you, also happens to be up, or gets up because she makes noise. And there's some discussion or something happens. There's an accident. Somebody... You're going down the wrong path, buddy. Okay.

Somebody accidentally or somebody gets upset over a bedwetting. That's one of the things that's been proposed. Okay. It hasn't happened. If she got up in the night and ran into somebody, it was somebody there that wasn't supposed to be there. I don't know what transpired after that, whether it was an accident, intentional, premeditated or what not. But it was not one of her three family members that were also in that house. Period. End of statement.

These tapes don't always show the Ramses at their best. But remarkably, it was the Ramses who made them available, saying they want all the information on this case out in the open. As for the Boulder police and prosecutors, they denied repeated requests from 48 Hours to discuss these tapes or any of the issues we're raising tonight. Their only comment on the Ramsey murder investigation is,

no comment. I mean, I appreciate being here. I appreciate it. It's very hard to be here, but it is damn sight harder to be sitting at home in Atlanta, Georgia wondering every second of every day what you guys are doing out here. You know, have you found anything? Are we any closer? Is the guy out here watching my house? You know, it's my son's safe. My life has been

hell from that day forward. And I want nothing more than to find out who is responsible for this. You just saw this man interrogate the Ramses. As a detective, I'm looking for clues. Wait until you hear what he has to say about the case now. They may not like what I say, but I'm going to say it. about the case now. They may not like what I say, but I'm gonna say it. Behind the closed doors of government offices

and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive that were barely whispered about. Each week on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories

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Bleach white, no hair, black eyes, a round hole for a mouth. It's flat, Taylor. It's completely flat. I don't know what that is. I don't know what kind of a head is flat. Comes the return of a head is flat. Look. What is that coming under the door? It's blood. Oh my god!

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Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! back in your car. Lizzie, it's OK. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car! Starring Bethany Joy Lenz, Clive Standen, and Michael O'Neil. Welcome to The Dark Sanctum.

Listen to Dark Sanctum Season 2 exclusively on Wondry+. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. 100 miles away from where John Benet Ramsey was murdered in a modest home in Colorado Springs. How often do you think about this case now? Probably every day.

67-year-old Lou Smith works every day, alone, trying to find her killer. I keep a picture of her in my wallet. You have John Bonet in your wallet? Sure. I keep it all the time. This is the same Lou Smith you saw interrogating John Ramsey back in 1998. I would concentrate my investigation on you. A veteran detective.

This was like the homicides that I worked on. With such an impressive record for solving homicides, that the Boulder District Attorney hired him on the Ramsey murder case. I had to stick up for the Boulder Police Department a little bit. And when you started, who did you believe killed John Benet Ramsey? My gut feeling was the parents did it. But as Smith followed the evidence and questioned the Ramses, the more he became convinced that the Boulder police were focusing on the wrong suspects.

John Ramsey came through very, very sincere. So when I first found her, I was like, thank God I found her. When I left that interview, there was no doubt in my mind that he had nothing to do with the death of his daughter. Smith quit the investigation in disgust. They hired me as a detective to take a look at this case. They may not like what I say, but I'm going to say it. I don't think the Ramses did it, and I think they ought to start looking for people that did.

How would you describe Lou Smith? He's my hope in finding out who killed my daughter. As a detective, I'm looking for clues. What is it that convinces Lou Smith that someone other than the Ramses killed their six-year-old daughter? First and foremost, the brutality of the crime. Nearly every medical expert who has seen the autopsy report

agrees on one thing. This was not an accidental death. John Benet-Ramsay was cruelly and deliberately murdered. We need to warn you that what you are about to see is very disturbing. What do we see here? John Benet was strangled not once, says Smith, but twice with this intricately made device known as a garotte

that had to have been made by the killer during the murder. You see hair right inside the windings of that cord. That's John Benet's hair. It's a device, says Smith, that was not left there for show. Whoever killed John Benet used the garrote to strangle her. Smith believes she was fighting for her life through remarks that look a lot like scratches on her neck. She did have her own DNA under her fingernails.

I'm pretty sure that's a scratch to get that off. I think she was struggling then. At some point, the child was then hit over the head with such force, it crushed her skull. But her nightmare wasn't over. Shortly before she died, investigators believe she was sexually assaulted with a piece of the paintbrush that was used to make the garrotte.

There's no motive for the parent to do that. The evidence, says Smith, simply does not support the popular theory that the Ramses struck their daughter and then tried to cover it up. It's not a mother waking up in the middle of the night saying, oops, I think I hurt my child. Whoops, I got to bring her downstairs and fashion one of these things. Then I'm going to put it around her neck and I'm going to tighten it a couple of times while she's struggling. Now, if you want to believe that, go ahead. I can't say this on air, but that's bullsh- But what about those fibers from Patsy Ramsey's jacket that police say were in the paint tray

and on the sticky side of duct tape covering Jambonet's mouth. Is the fact that there were fibers that were consistent with Patsy Ramsey's jacket incriminating? Sure. But does that shake your faith that the Ramseys were not involved? No.

You just can't rely on fiber evidence because fibers could come off of the jacket or something similar to the jacket. What's more, says Smith, there were also dozens of unidentified fibers that didn't come from the Ramses. And Smith is unaware of a single case where a parent used a garrote like this to kill a child. This is one of the best clues left behind by the killer.

This shows what's going on in his mind. This is a sexual device. I'm looking for a pedophile that's a sexual status. That's what Lou Smith's looking for. Smith's not the only one. Well, there's 57 pages of names that have come out of the tip files. Colorado private detective Ollie Gray and his partner John Santagustin

were hired by the Ramses two years ago. That would be John Benet's room right here on the second level. Even when the Ramses ran out of money, Ollie and John stayed on the job. We'd probably do something on it two or three times a week. Even though you're not getting paid? Sure. They became convinced of the Ramses' innocence

after seeing this lab report. I acquired a document that you see right here that names John and Patsy Ramsey as suspects. It was submitted for analysis reference DNA. Just days after John Bonet was murdered, her parents were asked to give DNA samples to the Boulder police. The two of you have given DNA evidence to the police?

Absolutely. Blood, hair, DNA, everything we've given them, everything they've asked for. Their DNA was compared to foreign DNA found under their daughter's fingernails and inner panties, which may have been left by the killer. Does any of that DNA match anyone in the Ramsey family? No. This analysis eliminates the Ramseys. If our DNA matched anything significant, they would have arrested us in a New York minute. I don't ever think they wouldn't have.

If not the Ramseys, then who killed John Benet? This is why I believe that the killer got in. Retired homicide detective Lou Smith was still working on the official investigation when he concluded that a stranger came into the Ramsey home. He opened the grate, he went in... And killed their six-year-old daughter. There's three windows there. The center one was the one that was open. Take a look real closely at the window on the left.

What you're going to see is leaves and debris pressed right up against the window. Now let's take a look at the one again in the center. No leaves or debris. Which says? That window was open. Directly below that open window you have a suitcase. Directly around that suitcase you have leaves and debris from that window well around that suitcase. Also see if you look very closely, you're going to see a mark that goes right down the wall. Right here. A scuff mark that Smith believes was left by someone either climbing in or climbing out you can fit through that window without any problem in fact he has as you can see in this video shot as part of Smith's

investigation it is much easier to go out that window if you stand on something you put the suitcase in front you step on the suitcase you're right out into the window well. Lift the grate, you're gone. It's that easy. But why would an intruder who intended to kill JonBenet leave the bizarre two and a half page ransom note written with paper and a pen belonging to Patsy?

Boulder police have always believed that Patsy used it to make the killing look like a kidnapping. But if someone had been targeting John Benet Ramsey, wouldn't he at least bring the paper and the pencil to write this ransom note? Well, if you want to look at it from a sophisticated criminal's mind, they probably wouldn't bring it in. Why would you bring in something that can be traced back to your house where you have actual the pen and the ink and you have the paper right there that it was written on? But you can't count on finding that in the house. Can't count on it. Most houses

have that. No expert could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the writer of the ransom note. That's damning, isn't it? No, not at all. You always are going to have similarities in handwriting. To sit down and write a note like that, with all of those details in there, after you brutally killed your daughter, you'd never done that before, come on, give me a break. But more than any other evidence, Smith believes small marks left on John Benet's face and back

prove an intruder killed her. The killer had a stun gun. I am sure the killer had a stun gun. A stun gun, an electrical weapon used to incapacitate the little girl in order to move her to the basement. Smith believes only an intruder would need to use one. There's no reason at all for the parents to have used a stun gun to help stage the murder of their daughter.

Was there any indication that the Ramsey's had ever owned a stun gun? There is nothing to indicate the Ramsey's ever owned a stun gun. What's significant about these injuries, says Smith, is that those on the child's face and those on her back appear to be an equal distance apart. Approximately 3.5 centimeters. Much like the prongs of this stun gun. And they're approximately 3.5 centimeters apart. It's approximately 3.5 centimeters. Much like the prongs of this stun gun. And they're approximately 3.5 centimeters apart. And if I push this. Dr. Michael Doberson.

You can see the electricity arcing. The coroner for neighboring Arapahoe County also believes the marks on John Benet were left by a stun gun. If it's not a stun gun, I'd like to know what it is. Three other pathologists agreed, but the Boulder police are relying instead on this man's opinion.

How sure are you that it's not a stun gun? Well, I'm 100% sure, because stun gun injuries don't look that way. Dr. Werner Spitz, a nationally known forensic pathologist who has worked on major cases, including the assassination of John F. Kennedy. A stun gun injury is an electrical burn. It's a burn essentially. And these don't look like

burns. Unfortunately, with only photographs to go by, no expert, not Dr. Spitz nor Dr. Doberson can be 100% sure. Wouldn't that have been the best way to know or come the closest to knowing is if you could have exhumed the body and line up a sun gun and see if it matches those injuries? Sure. I believe that that would have probably been

the most accurate way to do it. Lou Smith admits that in the months following John Benet's death, investigators consider going to court to have her body exhumed, but decided against it. We had buried our child. She was at peace. That was just an, uh, an abhorrent thought. But, John, that might have been the one way to know for sure.

That could have resolved the whole issue, because if a stun gun was used, it was not the parents. Certainly, and we've got people that have told us that know what they're doing, that with 95% medical certainty that a stun gun was used. No question. But you would have known with 100% certainty if you had exhumed the body. As tough as that would have been. This is my child you're talking about.

It's not a body. It's different. Still, Smith believes a stun gun is the key to John Benet's murder, and he's searching for a killer or killers who own one. The person who did this, if we're right, he's still out there. What do you make of the intruder theory? See more of the evidence at 48hours.com. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until

I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying

and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Raden was found dead in a canyon near LA in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately

wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and

ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. On the cold December night that marked the one-year anniversary of John Benet's murder, dozens of mourners showed up for a candlelight vigil outside the Ramsey home. One man, in particular, caught investigator Lou Smith's eye. Many times, gremlins do return to the scene, and that was on the anniversary. That puts him right there at the Ramsey house a year later. He's Gary Oliva, a 38-year-old convicted sex offender from Oregon who lives in Boulder. He definitely is a sex offender for assaulting another 7-year-old girl in Oregon.

They spent time in prison for that. Smith is convinced that a pedophile came into the Ramsey home and killed their daughter. On my computer I probably got 25 good leads and I probably have another 50 pages of other leads to follow. Among the files he's keeping on sex offenders in Boulder, Gary Oliva's name stands out. In 1991, the year after he sexually assaulted the little girl, police reports say he tried to strangle his mother with a telephone cord.

And in December 1996, Oliva may have been only a few houses away from John Benet's bedroom window. This is the alley behind the Ramses. This is the alley that runs behind the Ramses home. Leads into the backyard to the garage area. It wasn't uncommon for John Benet and Burke to ride their bicycles around the alleyway. John Santagustin and Ollie Gray, the Ramsey's private investigators, say Oliva frequented these buildings owned by a local church. A lot of transit people come here for food and also to pick up their mail.

But why is this relevant? The Ramsey home is what, ten houses? Right up this alley. Right up this alley. What did the Boulder Police do with this? Nothing. According to Lou Smith, the police didn't follow up on 95% of the more than 3,000 phone tips that came in. In Oliva's case, they didn't investigate him until nearly four years after John Benet Ramsey's death, when he was caught with drugs. And guess what else? A stun gun. Did you ever use that stun gun on a child?

No. Oliva, who was wanted in Oregon for parole violations, turned himself into the Boulder police two weeks ago. Did you hurt or kill John Benet Ramsey? No. No, I didn't. Didn't you tell your friend that you were attracted to little girls? I don't think I want to answer that.

Okay. You were living in Boulder at the time John Bonet was killed? Yeah. Just down the street? Yeah. What he will admit to is an obsession with John Bonet. I believe that she came to me after she was killed and revealed herself to me. As it turns out, we're not the only ones interested in Oliva.

A Boulder police officer showed up to take notes. I would be concerned if any lead was not fully taken to ground. Former Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter says police tried to follow up on pedophiles but admits that early on the force was clearly overwhelmed. Didn't your office have to tell police officers you've got to look at these other leads you can't just focus on the Ramses. Well it was said probably not in quite that language but but yes. Can I have a cigarette? No. Why didn't authorities take a sex offender like Oliva more seriously? Just this week, Boulder Police said Oliva is not a suspect.

Sources say his DNA doesn't match evidence at the scene. Nor does ours. What do you think of that? I think it's a double standard, don't you? Is it fair to say that the state of the evidence right now, there just isn't enough to convict the Ramseys beyond a reasonable doubt? There isn't enough to convict anybody beyond a reasonable doubt. But Alex Hunter believes this case someday can be solved,

although he doesn't think Lou Smith is the man to do it. Do you feel that Lou Smith's feelings for the Ramses clouded his judgment? I think a little bit. Hunter believes Smith, a devout Christian, crossed a line when working as a DA investigator, he prayed with the Ramses. Do you think maybe you've gotten too close to the Ramses? Well, let's put it this way, I don't think I did. If the Ramsey's did this and I found out,

I'd be the first one standing in line at the Boulder Police Department. John Benet Ramsey would have been 12 years old this year and in sixth grade. Instead, she's buried in a Georgia cemetery, while her brutal killer or killers go free. Next, a new interview with John Ramsay. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story.

One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science, and religion, and how even today we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night.

You can binge all episodes of the real history of Dracula exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus and the Wondria, Apple podcasts or Spotify. He was hip hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk Cafe, Sean Diddy Cone. industry. Did he built an empire and live the life most people only dream about everybody no no party like a did he party so yeah. But just as quickly as his empire rose it came crashing down.

And now seeing the unsealing of a 3 count indictment. Charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was fucked up. I hit rock bottom, but I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real.

From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace from law and crime this is the rise and fall of getting listen to the rise and fall of getting exclusively with one 3 plus. Remarkably not much has changed since that 2002 program. The case is at a standstill. But with the passage of so much time comes a loss of some key figures, most notably Patsy Ramsey, who died of cancer in 2006.

She was 49. John Ramsey remarried five years later. I think back about Patsy and I remember Patsy saying that your lives could not go on until the killer was found. How much weight was that on Patsy before she died? Patsy was a very strong woman. She really was. A very kind person, a wonderful mother. She got pretty vilified in the media, which was horribly unfair. I think hurt deeper than it showed. Investigator Lou Smith worked on the case almost until the day he died in August 2010.

His family continues to pursue leads. John, do you believe this case could be solved? Yes, I do. If the police will take advantage of all the technology that's available to them, and that's going to one or two of the world's cutting-edge labs for DNA testing. And I think if they do that,

and if we're successful getting a sample in the right format and then do the genealogy research, I'm 80% confident it could be solved. But you gotta do it. In November, 2024, the Boulder Police Department released a statement which said, "'The assertion that there is viable evidence and leads we are not pursuing to include DNA testing is completely false.

The department said there is an ongoing investigation and they're looking into the recommendations made by a recent cold case review team. Police Chief Steven Redfern. We have thoroughly investigated multiple people identified as suspects throughout the years, and we continue to be open-minded about what occurred as we investigate the tips that come in to detectives. John Ramsey remains hopeful that these new efforts

may finally reveal the killer, a killer he believes was already waiting in their house when the family came home from dinner that Christmas night. We were casual with our security in our home in Boulder. We thought it was a safe place. And we got casual and complacent. When you look back, are there anything you wish you had done differently? The little beauty pageants they participated in, and I wouldn't have done that.

You need to keep your children private. It was conflict for me because Patsy had just recovered from stage four ovarian cancer, was grateful to have some life ahead of her. In remission, she didn't know how long to spend with her children, to raise her children. I think she tried to pack a lot of mother-daughter time in that period of time that she knew she had ahead of her. Do you ever dream about Jambaday? Or wonder what she would have been like now? Well, I occasionally have dreams,

and they're really wonderful dreams. But I don't try to imagine what she would have been. She was in my life for six years, and she was my little girl, and that's how I remember her. MUSIC As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder?

Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crossley Green, wherever you get your podcasts. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at Wondery.com

slash survey. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondry Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led

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