48 Hours - The Unusual Shooting Of Alex Pennig

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

A nurse is found dead in her apartment. Surveillance video captures her coming home for the last time. Can investigators piece together what happened next? "48 Hours" contributor Natalie Morales reports. This episode last aired on 10/26/24. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

911, what is the address of your... It's a day I don't think I'll ever forget. There's she still alive? Is she breathing? No. No. A sheriff's vehicle pulled up and she informed us that Alex was dead. I don't remember what I did other than fall to my knees. Alex loved people. Alex loved people.

She was very caring. She loved animals. She'd bring home stray. She'd bring home all kinds of things. She worked a lot of years to get her degree in nursing because she truly wanted to become a nurse. Thank you to my family for never once giving up on me when many times I'm sure you'd wanted to.

I talked to at 6 o'clock that evening via text. She was doing great. And that was kind of the last thing. That's just your apartment or my wife? Is her? Her apartment, he stocks. You're fortunate, is it Matthew? Yeah.

And what's your lesson? Matthew Eckert was a nurse practitioner. He was well-educated, good-looking guy. We have a lot of nurses in my family, and he is one of the best nurses I know. He was a friend that she had met through this part-time job she had. job she had. She called them. She had called him that she needed his help, that she was in trouble. She had been in a domestic dispute with her then boyfriend, and Matthew Eckers thought she was

being assaulted, and so he came down. He was on his way to work and detoured him right to her apartment. He had brought a gun. He brought it with him everywhere he went. He had a permit to carry. We were briefed by the responding officers as we're entering the apartment, and they were telling us, their observations and what Matthew Eckers had told them. Were you guys arguing or something? No. No, she just crammed and pointed to her head. Alex is laying on her back.

She has a gunshot wound to her head. The handgun was facing this way. It was on her left shoulder like this. It just didn't look right. The scene didn't look right. How did she get in that position? but just didn't make sense. They're thinking they're not getting the whole story from Mr. Eckert.

He's the only one that can tell us what happened. He was the only one that was there. The only evidence is that she touched the gun. There was gunshot residue on her left hand. Just as a mom and knowing your kid, I didn't fit. He didn't have any motive to kill her. I mean, he was coming down to protect her. There's no way he did this.

I would bet my entire life. on the fact that he is innocent. The first thing he said to me is, Mom, I did not do this. What happened? Natalie Morales reports the strange shooting of Alex Penick. The overnight hours, it's December 16th, 2022. What time do you get that call? On that night, the call came in around 250.

It was a week before Christmas in 2022 when St. Paul police officer Ching Bang and his partner, Officer Justina Sir, set off on their regular patrol of the city. Dispatcher stated that a female was shot in the head. My partner and I, we went lights and sirens heading towards that call. And is it all units in the vicinity called in at that time? Yes. Pretty much every unit hop on that call to come and assist. Within minutes, Vang, Sir, and several other officers, body cameras rolling, arrived at the location, a residential apartment building. Matthew Ecker, the man who had placed the 911 call, let them in, and directed them to an apartment on the second floor.

Officer Vang was the first to enter the apartment. I remember walking in. The bathroom was to the right, the very first door. 32-year-old Alex Penig was lying face up with a single gunshot wound to her left temple. I noticed a lot of blood around her head. Officer Vang had immediately spotted the gun laying on Alex's left shoulder,

her hand resting on top. A team of officers looked around the small studio apartment and questioned neighbors. No one had heard anything. In the hallway, Officer Sir was talking to Matthew Ecker. He was on the floor by himself, so I went and approached him and just started talking to him. Were you concerned about him?

I was because at the time, we didn't know what was going on. I was not shocked. I don't heart. I just told him to just slow. down, take your time. We're not in a rush. Whenever you're ready, I'm ready to listen. Matthew did eventually calm down and he started talking. Were you going to argue or something? Telling officers he lived almost three hours away, but drove to Alex after she placed a frantic

call to him earlier. Matthew told police Alex had gotten into a fight with her current boyfriend. His name was Shane Anderson. The things had gotten physical. and she was scared of what he might do. So Matthew took his gun and brought it with him to Alex's apartment. Because I was worried that her boyfriend would come. So he was going there, he said, to protect her?

Yes. Matthew arrived at Alex's around 2 p.m. Shane wasn't there. That evening, he said they went out to local bars. When they walked into a place called camp bar, Shane was inside. He came to her, and they were arguing. and I came across and I stood in between him and then he punched me.

Shane hit him, he says, and then was kicked out of the bar. And then her and I sat there and talked with other people for another 45 minutes. We came back here and I thought everything was fine. And then she just grabbed the gun. Did she make any of the threat before that she was going to kill them? She just crammed up to her head. And with the gun in her hand, she backed into the bathroom, he says, and locked the door. Moments later, a single shot rang out.

Matthew says he quickly broke the door open and saw Alex on the floor. He told the officers he tried using his nursing skills to stop the bleeding by putting pressure on the wound. I tried to do what I could. And then I wash my hands. Then you wash your hands? Correct. That's why I don't have anything. And then you call the police.

The news that Alex had fired a gun, taking her own life, was unfathomable to Alex's parents, Mary Jo and Jim. That just was completely out of character for Alex. She had never shot a gun. She didn't like guns, so it didn't make any sense. And Alex's mom, Mary Jo, had just texted with her daughter a few hours earlier, and she didn't seem depressed at all. She was doing well, you know, and that's what's hard.

Yeah, did you see this? See that part? Detective's Abby DeSanto and Jennifer O'Donnell were called to the scene. You get a call at the middle of the night so you know it's not good. Inside the apartment, there was alcohol and six bottles of prescription medications, including antidepressants and amphetamines, all prescribed to Alex. But if that suggested maybe Alex had been depressed and took her own life, there were other things that didn't seem to add up in Matthew's account.

The first was the position of Alex's body, says the investigators, shown here in the CBS News animation. The door to the bathroom was ajar, and you immediately see Alex's feet on either side of the door. If Matthew had broken down the bathroom door after hearing the gunshot, as he told officers he had, We think that if that had been the case, her legs would have been swept behind the door. And even though Matthew had said he washed his hands before calling 911.

When responding officers arrived, the sink was dry. And if he had said, you know, he called the police right away and that sink probably would have been still wet. The detectives decided to take a deeper look at Matthew's story. He had told police his only mission that day was to protect Alex from Shane Anderson, the boyfriend he claimed was violent. And in fact, there were these holes in the closet door. Across from the bathroom, kind of like punch marks. Holes Matthew said Shane was responsible for. The detectives were now eager to speak with Shane. It's the most devastating knock on my door I'd ever had in my life. Hey, in St. Paul, police. Hours after Alex Penig was found dead, police were at

her boyfriend, Shane Anderson's front door. Did you hear what happened? Two police officers. They asked me who Alex was, and I said that's my girlfriend. Is she okay? Just passed away. No. Alex Pennick?

You're kidding me. And I blacked out after that pretty much. Shane says he was desperate for answers and willingly went to the police. station to speak with detectives, Abby DeSanto and Dan Zibro. I wonder what happened to her. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Shane told the detectives he had been dating Alex for around four months and painted a rosy picture.

She was sweet. Like, she was fun. Everything that you'd want in a woman. According to Shane, they spent nearly every day together and loved to lounge around with her two cats. I'm not a cat person. I'm more of a dog person, to be honest. But she kind of made me a cat person.

He told the detectives that although it was early in their relationship, they were planning a future together. Literally, yesterday, we were talking about, like, me breaking my lease and moving into her place. We both wanted families. You imagined yourself with her? 100%. Shane's description was in stark contrast to what Matthew Eckers had told police. Matthew said Alex told him she was fighting with Shane and scared. of him. But when the detectives asked, Shane denied it.

So did the argument that you guys had in that morning, did they get physical? No, no, not at all. God, no. It was about basically why I haven't moved in yet, and, like, why that was taking so long. But what about those punch marks in Alex's apartment? That was from a few weeks back. That was me. I was drunk. I didn't put my hands on her, though. We argued like a merry couple. Like, it wasn't anything like that. like crazy or like violent or like weird.

But remember, Matthew told detectives Shane was arguing with Alex just hours before her death at Camp Bar and Shane even punched Matthew. And I came across and I stood in between him and then he punched me. Shane didn't deny hitting Matthew. He says seeing Alex with another man upset him. Alex showed up with like guy. He doesn't look familiar. I have no idea who this guy is.

I was wondering why this guy is hanging out with my girlfriend, and I decided to throw a punch, which is not in my character, but it just felt like the thing to do at the time. So Camp Bar is the last bar that Alex and Matthew went to. Detectives DeSanto and O'Donnell reviewed security footage from inside Camp Bar. So as Alex and Matt walked in, Shane was sitting right across. They took us through the altercation, and we zoomed in for a closer look. Matt was sitting here when they walked in, and then really oddly, Alex walked around the bar and sat across the bar over there. Shane walked over to her first, and then she is talking to Shane, and then Matt comes over, and it appears that he's introducing himself because he

holds out his hand to shake hands with Shane. Then there's a confrontation. Shane ended up assaulting that. Shane then is asked to leave. Yes. I had no idea that that was going to be the last time that I ever saw her. After Shane left, the footage showed Alex hanging at the bar with Matthew for about another hour, drinking and chatting. Detectives were no closer to understanding why just a little while later she would,

as Matthew told them, take her own life. And the medical examiner ruled that. Alex's manner of death could not be determined. So detectives dug into her past, looking for anything that could explain what happened. She's been every hair color. Brunette and then blonde and then black hair. Get some red in there. Put a little red in there and it was like she would just be every color.

Jillian Kubitschek and Sarah Hansen have known Alex since grade school. Tell me about Alex as you knew her back then. Spunky, a little child full of energy. always up to something. Gillian played ice hockey with Alex, and together they won a state championship. What was she like? Fire on ice.

Luckily, I was always on her team, so I never had to play against her, but she was feisty. She was so fun. I don't really remember anything other than happiness, really, especially in the younger years. But detectives learned that as a young adult, Alex struggled.

Her parents, Mary Jo and Jim, said that I, college, Alex would get depressed, and she got hooked on prescription pills. It was very difficult. One day in 2016... She went up to her room and took a handful of meds and then had told her mom that she was attempting suicide by meds and then promptly threw it up, stuck her finger in her throat and threw it up.

I felt like it was a cry for help. And they got Alex that help. Inspired by the nurses who helped her recover, in 2019, she got her licensed practical nursing degree and was chosen to speak at graduation. I have climbed out of the darkness with permanent scars, but a heart of gold and the promise that as a nurse, I would try my best for people like me to not be alone and help them like those nurses had helped me. Alex didn't make that choice to get well, and she did. Her life was back on track. Her life was on track. And we watched the camp bar video, right?

Detectives also learned all about Alex's history with Matthew Ecker. She met him in 2020 when she got a job at a walk-in clinic. Her parents say their daughter described Matthew as someone she worked with. But according to Matthew's parents, Blaine Eckers and Terry Randall, there was a lot more than just friendship. Alex and Matthew, they say, were having an affair back then, even though Matthew was married with four kids. She knew he was married.

She knew he had four children. Terry says the romance didn't last. In the summer of 2022, they had ended the physical part of their relationship and were just friends. Still, she says her son was a source of support for Alex. She says Matthew told her Alex was drinking heavily and as a result, lost several jobs.

She wouldn't show up. She'd go on a... binge. Without a job, Matthew's family says Alex struggled to pay her bills. So unbeknownst to her parents, Matthew stepped in. He gave Alex money and helped her pay her rent. Matthew's sisters, Molly and Amy, aren't surprised their brother wanted to help. He cared for her and he has a big heart and he didn't want to just walk away. He couldn't walk away. And just three days before Alex died, Alex sent Matthew these text messages. I shut myself out to the world. I needed a mental health break, and I'm not very hopeful at the

moment about life. Even with those texts, though, and Alex's past attempt years earlier, detectives still weren't convinced she took her own life. Just because you say, I need a mental health day or it's not a good day, doesn't mean you're suicidal. Detective suspected Matthew was lying to them, and here's why. Remember, the gun was found on Alex's chest with her left hand on it. Turns out, Alex was right-handed. When detectives Abby DeSanto and Jennifer O'Donnell reviewed security footage from Alex's apartment building,

they were able to see what happened after Matthew and Alex's left camp bar. So that's Alex and Matt, and they're just in the vest. of Alex's apartment walking in. About 2 o'clock in the morning or so. Yes. Time frame. You can see Matthew and Alex walk out of view as they go up to her apartment. But a short while later, they walk back through the lobby and out the door.

Matthew would say it was to get his headphones from his car. Alex returns to the lobby and waits. For the detectives, what happens next is key. She seems impatient, just looking at her body language. They note how when Matthew returns, Alex doesn't hold the door for him. And how he shrugs his shoulders as he follows behind her. The detectives wonder if Matthew and Alex had gotten into a fight. Something was going on with him.

That's huge because that's the last time we see Alex alive. 20 minutes later at 2.50 a.m., Matthew placed that call to 911. A girl who shot herself. The lobby security footage had no audio, so there was no way to know for sure if the two had gotten into a fight. But when Alex's family and friends saw it,

you could tell that she was mad. You could tell the way she ripped open that door. You could tell Alex stomping in. Whenever she was mad, she'd like stop. And she, I was visible in this video. So they were definitely in a fight. But when detectives questioned Matthew, he denied any problems. We were laughing away home.

Everything was fine. You guys weren't arguing or anything? There's a whole fight with you two? Not between us. And Matthew's family believes there could be a different reason for the change in Alex's demeanor. In the footage, Alex is on her phone. They wonder if she was messaging Shane and arguing with him about the altercation that had just happened at Camp Bar.

I truly believe there's a lot of information, a lot of texting, and we think having gotten those interactions would have given us a lot more insight into her state of mind. But the detectives couldn't get into Alex's phone because no one knew the passcode. And Shane said he had lost his phone the night before,

so they couldn't search his either. It seemed that there was some kind of exchange happening. Was she talking to you at all? I didn't have a phone. Facebook message or anything like that? No. Unable to know for sure what was really happening in the lobby, when Detective DeSanto and her colleague Dan Zebro interviewed Matthew,

they focused on what he said happened in the apartment. How was she holding the gun when she was backing up to the bathroom? She was, she had it down here first, and then she talked it, left hand. But she ended up holding it to her left hand full. So I remember her. Okay. She's not.

She's not weird. Not so it was weird. He said she did all this with her left hand, but then he told us she was right-handed. You don't use a weapon with your non-dominant hand. It's just another inconsistency or another part of the puzzle that doesn't match. There was also the nagging question about the sink being drawn. Matthew had told first responders, he washed his hands after trying to help Alex, which is why his hands were clean. But the sink was dry when police arrived. DeSanto asked if he did, in fact, call police right away.

Right? And then you call the police, right? Yeah, I've called the police, you know. So, you know, when you get blood all your hands and then you go into the sink and you'll? Yeah. Or the hand on to the sink, right? There shouldn't be blood on them. There should be. There's no. There's no blood in the hand in the sink. And there's no, nothing in the sink.

I guess I rinse my hand. The sink's dry. There's no water or anything. No, I've washed my hands in the sink. But DeSanto thought Matthew was lying. Either he hadn't helped Alex and didn't wash his hands, or he had not called 911 right away. Right now, all this evidence is not bad off.

I can't. I just want you to just think. I just want you to think about this and what, what you're, you're asking me to confess to something I didn't do. No, I'm not. I'm asking you just to think. We're just going to give you some time here, just to think. We got to grab that stuff anyway.

Think about everything that we discussed with you. But soon, Matthew called them back in. It was more than two hours into his interview, and he wanted to change his story. So the change that I have, I did take a gun, and I put it in my suitcase. I put it in the suitcase, went back, looked to her,

and said, went back to the suitcase, grabbed it up, and put it back. Why would you move that gun? Did he explain why he moved the gun? He was scared. When Matthew put the gun back, he said he put it on Alex,

the way first responders found it, with her hand on top. I mean, why would you lay her hand back down the door? I was moving stuff. I was moving her. I was looking at her. That's all I know. At that point, we're like, oh, what innocent person would do this?

Yet Matthew continued to insist he was innocent. I got him off by and close to her. I did not shoot her. I didn't kill it. And he kept saying the door to the bathroom was shut. I don't know what happened. But you didn't buy it. No.

And neither did Detective Zebro. Nope. But the detectives. didn't know how they could prove it. And then they discovered a new piece of evidence. This is a big piece of the puzzle for you. Yes. What do you think of Alex and Matthews' body language in the lobby?

See a timeline of the case at 48Hours.com. Do you have a dark curiosity? Heart starts pounding, horrors, hauntings, and mysteries is a weekly podcast hosted by me, Kailen Moore. Each week, I'll take you on a dark journey through terrifying true urban legends, bizarre true crime cases, chilling tales of backwoods horror and more. So if you're looking to join a passionate community of The Darkly Curious, check out Heart Starts pounding on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

And remember, stay curious. For hours, Matthew Ecker insisted he did not kill Alex, that she locked herself in the bathroom and fired the shot. He said he had broken open the door only after the gun went off. I heard the gun go off and that's when I opened it up. But then Detective O'Donnell got a call from the forensic unit processing the scene. Once Alex was moved, they found underneath where Alex had been laying was a round metal piece. Which is this piece right here.

Yes. O'Donnell says it's a piece at the bathroom door lock. And because it was discovered on the floor, Under Alex's head, as seen in the CBS News animation, it had to have gotten there while Alex was still alive. For us, it meant that the door was forced open before she was shot. The detective suspected Alex had locked the door

to get away from Matthew. I believe that Alex and Matthew got in an argument. I believe that she went into the bathroom to be alone, not wanting to be with him. But when he broke open the door, they say that small piece of metal from the lock landed on the bathroom floor. He forced his way in and shot her. Shot, they say, Alex fell on top of the metal piece.

To the detectives, it was the only way the piece could have ended up under her. Matthew Ecker was charged with second-degree murder. His family was stunned. It's like, no, there's got to be a mistake. It's just not his care. He's not going to harm somebody on purpose. They hired criminal defense attorney Bruce Rivers. There's a reasonable doubt all over the place that this was a homicide.

Rivers says there's another explanation for how that metal piece got under Alex. He said it could have ended up under her head when Matthew Eckers attempted to help her. Because he did lift her head up. But detectives point to the way Alex was found. with her legs straddling the door. If Matthew Eckers had broken open the door after hearing the gunshot, detectives say Alex's legs would have been pushed to the side. But Eckers' defense attorney says there was enough space in the bathroom

that when the door was broken open... It went in between her legs. That is consistent, in my opinion, with her laying there and having shot herself. And importantly, claims Rivers, if his client had shot Alex, there would have been blood splatter on him, and that's not the case. There was not one speck of blood on his shirt, on his pants, on his face, anywhere whatsoever. The detectives say that's because Eckers most likely had reached around the door while he was trying to force his way in and fired the shot.

I believe the door shielded him from the initial blood splatter. But Rivers says it makes much more. sense that Alex took her own life. And he says forensic testing proves Ecker wasn't the one who fired the gun. It was Alex. There was gunshot residue on her left hand. And was her DNA found on the gun. It was. There was also no gunshot residue on Ecker. And his DNA was not found on the gun. Detective suspect that's because he wiped it clean before putting it on Alex. There should be his DNA.

It's your gun. You told us in an interview that you grabbed the gun. Your hands were all over that gun, but it was very clean. He admitted to having held the gun and moving the gun after the fact. Yet none of his DNA was found on the gun. How do you explain that?

That's not uncommon. Just because you touch something doesn't mean that DNA is going to be there. At the time of her death, Alex had almost three times the legal limit of alcohol and four different prescription medications in her system, including Prozac and Valium. Although it wasn't the cause of her death to Rivers, it showed she was struggling. As did those texts she had sent Eckers just a few days before her death. She was depressed because of her financial conditions, depressed because of her job situation.

All these things compounded themselves. But detectives would discover something unusual about those prescription medications found in Alex's body. It turns out Matthew Ecker had prescribed them. He didn't tell us that he was prescribing your medication. During the investigation, you found that out. Yes. As a licensed nurse practitioner, Ecker had the authority to write prescriptions.

Though normally that authority is used for a patient, Alex was not. you would think you would send her to a doctor and have her see someone else. Was his prescribing medication considered illegal, though? No, it's unethical, but it was not illegal. According to Eckers' family, Matthew had good reason. She was prescribed those medications originally by a medical doctor. So she had asked Matt if he could refill them. She would badger him.

And they point to multiple texts Alex sent him days before her death, asking him to refill medications, including, I need you to send in my immediate release, Adderall script. Make sure I have refills for my trazodone and metapol too, please. I have like three bottles of Prozac, so I'm good with that. Still, Alex's family and friends say there is no excuse. I can't get over that. As a nurse practitioner, he should have known him better. So his feeling sorry for your daughter or feeling like he was doing this in the best,

way to try to help her. You don't believe that's the case. I don't. I don't believe that at all. Especially for someone that has a history of addiction, you don't prescribe it. As a nurse practitioner, you say no. In February 2024, Matthew Eckers' trial began. The detectives were confident they had an idea of why Matthew Eckers would have wanted Alex

dead. And it centered around their past romance. Maybe she said that she was a lot of. going to call his wife and tell his wife everything. And as far as a motive, what would be the motive? Keep her quiet, so the wife doesn't find out. Sure would be nice if there was some evidence of that. I mean, it was just sheer speculation.

There's nothing, not one scintilla of evidence that they were in any kind of dispute whatsoever. Instead, River says he's sure that night everything came to a head for Alex, and she couldn't take it anymore. So when it boils down to it, this is a case about what the judge. jury's going to believe. Whether it's suicide or homicide. And because the medical examiner had ruled Alex's manner of death could not be determined, Rivers brought in a second one, who came to the same conclusion, undetermined. If they can't determine it was a homicide, neither can you. But what would the jury think? When it was time for deliberations, everyone was nervous. It was obvious to me, Matt was concerned.

Selfishly as a parent of Alex, we wanted to believe that he was guilty, but believing it and proving it are two different things. All that there had been a verdict. You just take this huge, deep breath. I'm like, oh, my gosh. In February 2024, after nine hours of deliberation, the jury came to a decision about Matthew Ecker. Matthew was guilty.

Guilty of second degree murder. Once we heard that, we were, we were very happy. It was sad because it didn't bring Alex back, but at least there was some justice served. But for Matthew Eckers' family, it was like a knife in the heart. I couldn't even function.

What did you see in your brother in that moment when the jury read the verdict? Just absolute tragedy. It was awful. Yeah. Two months later on April 3rd, 2024, Matthew Eckers, was back in court for sentencing. All rise. I understand there are people who wish to make statements today.

Alex's friend Jillian addresses the court. countless times I picked up the phone to call out only to realize I won't ever hear her voice again. Sarah echoes their loss. Alex really was a once-in-a-lifetime kind of friend. And I remember Sarah, you were giving your statement and... Unfortunately, that meant I was at the level of where Matt was.

He was sitting and I was standing and I just kept looking over at him, just... Trying to feel something, you know, trying to figure out what you're feeling and there was just nothing, nothing. Alex's parents, Mary Jo and Jim implored the judge to impose a stiff sentence. Our hearts have been broken beyond repair,

and the future trajectory of our lives has been changed forever. And the world lost a special soul, and we lost our baby. But Matthew Eckers' family appealed for leniency. Matt is one of the kindest and most compassionate people we know. He has spent most of his adult life helping people and caring for people. I truly believe that Matt has so much more to offer to this world. In the end,

It is the sentence of the law in the judgment of the court that you serve 360 months with the Department of Corrections. The judge sentenced Matthew Eckers. to 30 years for killing Alex. You are remanded to the custody of the Department of Corrections. I mean, him sitting in prison for 30 years is just, it's just not acceptable. He's not a murder. He didn't do this. We will fight until it's made right.

And we will not give up on him. Ecker and his wife are now divorced, and she has full custody of their four children. His family says they have not been allowed any contact with the kids. That has to be very hard as grandparents not having that connection. Yeah. Absolutely terrible. I miss them so much. Is there something you would want them to know about their dad?

They loves them and cares for them and misses. them and we love them. As for Alex's family, there are questions they'd still like Ecker to answer. Why'd you do it? Questions with answers that may never come. What they do know is how they choose to honor Alex. One way is through her love for animals, including a serendipitous encounter. Somebody had dumped off a little baby rooster and somehow it just migrated to our house.

So we built a chicken coop and we now have 12 chickens at home. It's probably named Alex's coop. Yes. I have a feeling Alex maybe had a hand in bringing you that rooster. And every month, the Pennigs get together with Sarah and Gillian. Then we just sit there and talk and cry and tell stories that, oh, Al would not want us to be telling Mary Jo. But we tell them because we're like we have to relive. of these stories.

Yes, I know. Get to yourself some of my friends. Alex's boyfriend, Shane, also struggles. It's heartbreaking because I love that girl. And she deserves to be here. She absolutely deserves to be here. The cemetery where Alex is buried is a short drive from where her parents live. And they visit her as often as they can.

Hey, Al. I miss you, kid. I miss you, kid. Yeah. It's tough. Love you, honey. At peace. I miss you, sweetheart.

Matthew Ecker is appealing his conviction. Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.