48 Hours - What’s Next for the Menendez Brothers?

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

The Menendez Brothers have been serving life sentences for gunning down their parents in 1989, but on October 16, 2024, twenty family members, along with lawyer Mark Geragos addressed new evidence and asked for a resentencing. In this episode from March 2024, "48 Hours" contributor Natalie Morales reported on the new evidence in question.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals with more at it all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and even

your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial, and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. I'm Erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered,

this is the one that troubles me most. A bizarre and maddening tale involving an eyewitness account that doesn't quite make sense. A sister testifying against a brother. A lack of physical evidence. Crosley Green has lived more than half his life behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crosley Green, early

and ad-free on Wondry Plus and the Wondry app. You have a pre-paid call from... Lyle Menendez. My name is Lyle Menendez. I'm at Marj in Bonavent State Prison in San Diego, California, and I am here for killing my parents. My brother and I were convicted together. First degree murder verdicts for both Eric and Lyle Menendez. Excuse us. This is a special report from the Van Nuys Courthouse. Both Menendez brothers have been found guilty. How big a deal was the Menendez case?

Well, when you think back, it was huge. The Menendez family was very wealthy. This was Beverly Hills. Murders just don't typically happen. Katie was my baby sister. It was a brutal murder. Everyone from the Gardner to the president had a view of what happened. I'm Jackie Lacey. I'm the former elected district attorney of Los Angeles County. A couple was sitting around watching TV when their adult sons came in with shotguns and slaughtered them. What did these parents do to deserve them?

There must be a reason. be a reason. Jose Menendez was the self-made millionaire. He was very driven, very demanding. The prosecution's theory was they got tired of their lives being micromanaged. They wanted to spend the money the way they wanted to spend the money. They were buying Rolex watches. They were buying real estate. The way that they acted was not like, oh my goodness, my parents are dead. It was soulless. It was strictly greed from day one.

You believe they wanted a portion of the money. They wanted it all. I wanted it all. My name is Cliff Gardner. I represent Eric and Lyle Menendez. It's not a complex case. It's a simple case. They were abused their whole life. My dad had been molested me.

He raped me. Did you ask him not to? Yes. The brothers were claiming that we were molested by our father. When we threatened to go public, they threatened to kill us, and so we had to go in and kill them before they killed us. I thought he was going to kill me that night. I never saw anything in the home. Never. I have got to think that it was their attorney's ideas that if your

only way you're going to save your ass is to say that you were molested and that's what they did. It's divided the family immensely. I love my cousins. They shouldn't have gone through what they went through because they're not lying. They were being abused. As you sit there in prison, there is some news now that could really impact you and your brother's case, right? Yes, that's pretty just sort of shocking. Former Menudo singer Roy Rossello claims he was drug and raped by Jose Menendez in the mid-'80s. Menudo had just signed with RCA Records,

where Menendez was a top executive. We now have evidence that makes absolutely clear that those boys were molested. And if those boys were molested, it would have been manslaughter and they would be out. The judge in this case, if he finds that the new evidence is credible and the conviction should be vacated,

do you think the DA's office would seek a new trial? I think they would spend a lot of time thinking about it. 34 years in incarceration. You wonder when will there be a fair review of this. So maybe now. My hope in the case is that they'll finally walk out of prison. The Menendez brothers fight for freedom. Lyle and Eric Menendez had been behind bars in California for more than three decades for the 1989 killing of their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez. Convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison in a case that captured the nation's attention. They had no hope of ever walking free.

But new evidence may change that. Eric chose not to speak with us for this broadcast, but Lyle did. You have a prepaid call from... Lyle Menendez. This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. Hi Lyle, can you hear me? Hi, yeah, I can hear you. What did you think when you heard about these new claims and evidence?

I mean, for me, I just was happy. It's a burden to be telling what happened to and just have so much doubt in the public air. The question is not whether the Menendez brothers killed their parents. They admit that they did. Instead, the focus of the case has long been why they did it. They insist that they killed out of fear and in self-defense after a lifetime of physical, emotional and sexual abuse suffered at the hands of their parents.

One of their lawyers, Cliff Gardner, says the new evidence corroborates those claims and lessens their culpability. If the judge finds this evidence credible, I think it is sufficient to give them a new trial. But to understand how we got here, we have to go back to the beginning, the evening of August 20, 1989, when Lyle Menendez made this call to 911 from the family's Beverly Hills mansion. Beverly Hills emergency? Yes, police.

What's the problem? There's something to my parents. Pardon me? There's something to my parents. Beverly Hills emergency? Yes, police. What's the problem? Someone killed my parents. Pardon me? Someone killed my parents. After officers responded to the scene, then 21-year-old Lyle and 18-year-old Eric reported that they had arrived home

to find their parents shot to death in the family room. Jackie Lacey was a deputy district attorney in Los Angeles at the time. I think one of the Beverly Hills detectives described it as one of the most brutal crime scenes he had ever seen in his life. I've been in this business for over 33 years and I've heard of very few murders that were more savage than this one was. Benendez, a former top executive at RCA Records, and his wife Kitty, had been shot multiple times at close range with a shotgun. It was an expression of hatred for these two people. And that was the last time I saw her alive.

Milton Anderson, Kitty's older brother, still remembers receiving the news. My brother called me and he said that Kitty and Jose were dead. I loved her. Sister Kitty was a very ambitious gal. She was a very beautiful woman. Kitty and Jose met when they were in college in Illinois. Jose had come to the US from Cuba. They went on to marry and start a family.

Lyle and Eric were their only children. Over the years with Kitty by his side, Jose excelled in his career, working for RCA Records among other major companies. He was going right up the ladder without any hesitation. At the time of his death, Jose was working for a film studio, running their home video division. Investigators initially suspected that the killings may have been tied to his business dealings. Lyle sort of indicated, you know, my dad dealt with shady characters.

And once you say something like that, detectives are going to start to look at, okay, what were his business contacts? Family members and investigators wondered whether it may have been mafia-related. At the time, the home video industry was known for having ties to the mob. Everybody said it was a mob head. Because it was so brutal, it really was like a scene out of the Godfather movies. Initially, Lyle and Eric Menendez were not even on investigators' radar. They didn't do any gunshot residue test on their hands.

They let them go back and get evidence without even thinking, hey, could it have been the kids? But they didn't stay off investigators' radar for long. Their behavior in the wake of the crime eventually drew scrutiny. The brothers appeared to be spending their parents' money, and lots of it. They were investing in businesses. They acted like they had won the lottery.

And their behavior at their parents' memorial services raised some eyebrows. At the podium, Lyle read a letter from Jose that was filled with love and pride for his sons. Did you see Lyle get emotional as he was reading that letter? No. Lyle also made a statement that his father always said, you can never fill my shoes. And he jokingly said, guess what? I'm wearing my father's shoes today. Struck you as odd that he would say something like that? I was very odd. While all that may have seemed unusual,

it wasn't hard evidence. But then about six months later, police got a tip from an unlikely source, the girlfriend of a psychologist who Lyle and Eric Menendez had been talking to. She told police that the brothers had confessed to the killings in therapy, and there was an audio taped recording of it. But for that confession, who knows whether they've ever been caught. On March 8, 1990, after police got their hands on that tape, Lyle Menendez was taken into custody.

Eric Menendez, who was out of the country at the time, surrendered to police days later. Not many Hollywood murder mysteries ever took a more dramatic turn than police are describing in a couple of savage Beverly Hills killings. Police say the motive was apparently money, a $14 million inheritance to be shared by the brothers. But years later, when the case made its way to trial, the brothers would make it clear that it might not be so simple. On August 20, 1989, did you and your brother kill your mother and father? Why did you kill your parents? Because we were afraid From the award-winning masters of audio horror I see a face right up against the window bleach white no hair

Black eyes a round hole for a mouth White, no hair, black eyes, a round hole for a mouth. It's flat, Taylor. It's completely flat. I don't know what that is. I don't know what kind of a head is flat. Comes the return of Dark Sanctum. Look. What is that coming under the door? It's blood. Oh! Seventh original, Chilling Tales, inspired by The Twilight Zone and Tales from the Crypt.

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Apple podcasts, or Spotify. In 2014, Laura Hevelin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military.

And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Ad Free, starting October 29th on Amazon Music. In the summer of 1993, nearly four years after Jose and Kitty Menendez were gunned down in their home, their sons Lyle and Eric Menendez went on trial. They faced the death penalty. Good afternoon. The only question in this case is why did these killings occur?

Why they were killed is what the focus of all of our evidence will be on. What the defense was arguing was that since this was a self-defense case, the brothers were deserving of a lesser charge and punishment. The defense attorneys who tried the case didn't respond to our requests for an interview. Cliff Gardner represents Lyle and Eric Menendez today. I had the defense of imperfect self-defense. Imperfect self-defense, meaning the brothers honestly believe that they had to take action to save their lives, even though it might not seem rational.

And if it's honest but unreasonable, you're a couple both manslaughter, not a murder. Both brothers took the stand. Lyle Menendez spoke of sexual abuse at the hands of his mother and father. He said his father began sexually abusing him when he was only six years old. He would fondle me,

and he would ask me to do the same with him. Over time, he said, it became worse. He raped me. But while Lyle said his father stopped sexually abusing him when he was eight, Eric said it never ended for him and that he finally confided in his older brother days before the crime at age 18.

I didn't know what to do at the time, so I forgot I'd tell Lyle and maybe he could help me. He started telling me that one of the reasons he had never told me before was because my dad had always threatened his life. The brothers testified that Lyle soon confronted their parents and that their mother indicated she knew about the abuse all along. In anger, Lyle said he directed a threat at his father. I told him that I would tell everybody.

Then he said, we all make choices in life, son. Eric made his, you've made yours. What did you think was going to happen? I thought we were in danger. I thought he had no, he felt he had no choice. But to what? That he would kill us. The brothers testified that they got into another argument

with their parents on the night of the crime and that they believed their parents were about to kill them to keep the family secret from coming out. So they said they grabbed shotguns that they had bought two days earlier for protection, went into the family room and started shooting their parents, at one point even stopping to reload. And what did you do after you reloaded? I ran around and shot my mom. The defense may call us next witness. To bolster their claims of abuse, the defense called to the stand numerous relatives, friends

and acquaintances of the family who described incidents of physical and emotional abuse that they said they observed. Allen Anderson, Lyle and Eric's cousin, was one of those witnesses. Growing up, Alan would spend summers at the Menendez home. He had a lot to say about Jose. Hitting the kids with the belt. Never had a problem with that. And Kitty. She wouldn't get up to console the children. Nothing. While none of the witnesses, including Alan, ever saw Lyle or Eric Menendez being sexually abused.

Alan did recall something that struck him as odd. Jose would tell the boys in the bedroom, and then he would close the door, and then he'd take showers with them. He says during that time, Kitty wouldn't let him go near the room. So I was not allowed, while the boys were alone with Jose, with the door closed in the master bedroom,

to go down the hall to probably not hear whatever I may hear. Another cousin, Diane Vandermolen, gave similar testimony. And she also recounted a conversation she says she had with Lyle when he was eight. she had with Lyle when he was eight. He proceeded to indicate to me by touching himself down and saying that his dad and him had been touching each other down there. And what did you do? I went and got Kitty and told her what was going on. What happened when Kitty came down?

She didn't believe me. Andy Cano, yet another cousin, also took the stand and testified about a conversation he says he had with Eric when Eric was about 13. He told me his father was massaging his ass. He told me never to reveal it to anybody. Still, prosecutors argued that even if Lyle and Eric Menendez were abused, it doesn't give them the right to kill. And they pointed out

that when the brothers confessed to that psychologist, they never mentioned abuse or self-defense then. The timing of disclosure was convenient. The prosecutors who tried the case didn't respond to our request for an interview. Former Los Angeles County DA Jackie Lacey reviewed portions of the trial at our request. And people do make things up when their life is on the line. But all these years later, Lyle Menendez maintains they are telling the truth. And the reason they didn't come forward then was complicated. What was holding you back? Just shame.

Just not wanting it to be public. The pure nature of the crime, however, says Lacey, doesn't support the brothers' claim that they acted in self-defense. Prosecutors pointed out that Jose and Kitty were watching TV at the time they were killed, and they weren't armed. In order to get close enough to blow somebody away, you would have been able to see that they didn't have weapons. Lyle Menendez is adamant that he and his brother were in fear for their lives. The prosecution argued the evidence proves the killings were premeditated.

When the brothers purchased those shotguns, prosecutors said that they took steps to cover their tracks, like driving to a gun store all the way in San Diego. San Diego's not a round-the-corner drive. Last time I checked, it was two hours sometimes. After they killed their parents, they went around and picked up the expended shotgun shell casings so that their fingerprints wouldn't be discovered on those shells. There was a lot of thought and a lot of deliberation that went into it. They also got rid of the shotguns, made that 911 call,

Who is the person that took the shot? My mom and my dad. And misled the initial investigators. Prosecutors pointed to money as the motive. They said Jose Menendez told his sons he had removed them from his will. And based on their investigation, they suggested that after the crime,

Lyle Menendez attempted to destroy a will on the family computer. Lyle denies doing that and insists money had nothing to do with what happened. If there was a new will, it was never found. Although the brothers were tried together, there were two separate juries deciding their fate. When deliberations began, they stretched on for weeks before both juries determined they were divided over whether Lyle and Eric Menendez

should be convicted of murder or manslaughter. Therefore, I find that the jury is hopelessly deadlocked. A mistrial was declared. It was just a devastating result. I needed it to be over one way or the other. But it was far from over. Prosecutors would try the case again. They needed a win.

The heat was on. Nearly two years passed as Lyle and Eric Menendez sat in jail, awaiting a second trial, some of their family members, like Alan Anderson, believed that they were justified in the killings. I know they did what they did because they were in fear of their life. While others, like Kitty's brother, Milton Anderson, considered them cold-blooded killers. I don't believe that Jose or Kitty would do any of the things that they were accused of. Jose was changing his will and that's when they went out and bought the shotgun. At the retrial which began in October 1995, one jury instead of two would hear the case. No video cameras were allowed in court and

a new team of prosecutors would employ a different strategy. The first trial was okay there may have been abuse but we don't allow vigilantes in our society. The second trial, the prosecution's case, there was no abuse at all. And what made it easier for prosecutors to argue that, says attorney Cliff Gardner, is the fact that the prosecution raised new and successful objections to the admission of a large amount of defense evidence. Now the jury would hear from only some, not all, of the witnesses who knew the Menendez family and helped corroborate the brothers' claims of abuse.

The DA was not going to take another loss. They could not take another loss. The judge, who had also presided over the first trial, excluded the testimony on the grounds that it was irrelevant, repetitive, and in some instances, lacking in foundation, because this time, Lyle Menendez would not take the stand. Eric did testify. Why did you decide not to speak? Uh, two reasons. I was just done after the first first trial and I didn't have the attorney that I trusted so much to ask me these deep personal questions.

But Carol Nehara, the only surviving lead prosecutor from the second trial who declined to speak with us, suggested in a 1996 interview there might have been another reason why Lyle didn't take the stand. There were things that had been developed since the first trial that would have damaged his credibility a great deal. Prosecutors said they had new evidence that Lyle had asked a friend and a former girlfriend to fabricate testimony.

Lyle admits to 48 Hours that he did do that, but says he later withdrew those requests. Because Lyle didn't take the stand, his cousin Diane Vandermolen was prohibited from testifying about that conversation she says she had with Lyle when he was 8, in which she says Lyle told her that his father was touching him. The jury did still hear from cousin Andy Cano about that similar conversation he claimed to have had with a 13-year-old Eric, but the prosecution attacked his credibility. The state's position was that Andy was a liar. And when cousin Alan Anderson took the stand,

prosecutors attacked his credibility too, bringing up the fact that Lyle Menendez gave him money after the crime. Anderson says it was to help pay for a medical procedure. He didn't say anything like, well, if I go to court, no, it was just straight up between him and I, him being a nice cousin, knowing I was in financial bind, he knew he had the resources to help me. At the second trial, prosecutors placed more of a focus on the brutality of the crime. And they painted Jose as a restrained, loving father, someone incapable of molesting his children. Prosecutors referred to the brothers' defense as the abuse excuse.

In the first trial, the defense called more than 50 witnesses. This time, they called about half. It wasn't that they didn't want to present them. They were not allowed. The jury deliberated for days. And then... The verdicts are in in the retrial of Eric and Lyle Menendez. Guilty of first-degree murder.

I hugged my brother. we cried, and I said, look, we're going to be okay. I was not happy at all. At the jury's recommendation, the brothers were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And you believe they deserved that? Oh, what they did to my sister, they should have gotten a death penalty.

Lyle and Eric Menendez were sent to separate prisons. More than two decades passed. And then, around 2020, the case made a surprising resurgence on social media. Following a documentary that aired on the case in which Eric Menendez repeated his claims of abuse, droves of people took to TikTok and Instagram to express support for him and his brother. Dr. Judy Ho is a neuropsychologist who specializes in childhood sex abuse trauma.

Dr. Ho is also a 48-Hours consultant. We asked her to review the case. I definitely think that our society has just become more knowledgeable about trauma and the impact of sexual trauma. Dr. Ho says research shows that just because the brothers delayed reporting abuse, it doesn't mean they made it up. That's all very consistent with people who have been through trauma and maybe feel like

it was even their own fault in some ways, or they're ashamed of the trauma. And there's a lot more self-stigma and shame associated with male victims. She also says that the abuse the brothers describe could even help explain why the crime was so brutal. It makes sense that in that moment, it's almost like a breakdown. And that's not to make an excuse for anything that they've done, but it's just to describe the state of mind of this is years and years of abuse

where they couldn't act to protect themselves. And once they pulled the trigger, it was like there was no turning back. But could Lyle and Eric Menendez have truly been in fear for their lives that night? They're 18 and 21. Why couldn't they leave? Right. Well, certainly there was a path that they could have taken,

is to try to get away from the family. But it sounds like even at that age, they were very much under the control of their father still. I think that oftentimes what people are not aware of is that trauma completely rewires the brain. They probably did think at one point it was either them or their parents, that it was a fight orflight conditioning that had come up.

Attorney Cliff Gardner believes the case would be tried differently today. The idea back then was, A, dads don't molest their children. And if by chance it happened, these are 18 and 21-year-old kids, they're strapping young men, they just leave. And both those, I think, are undercut in what we know today. Still, a better understanding of the effects of sexual abuse and some social media support would do little on their own to make a difference in the brothers' case legally. Instead, what their defense needed was new evidence.

And eventually, that's what it got. needed was new evidence. And eventually, that's what it got. Did you or Eric think that another person would accuse your father of child molestation? I did not. I could not believe it. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harboured a deep dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still

emerge. It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn trials I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction.

Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of Sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy

about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bolderest takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best-selling video game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party.

So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's just the best idea yet. Over the years, Lyle and Eric Menendez appealed their convictions, but were unsuccessful. It seemed unlikely that they would ever see beyond prison walls. But then new evidence began to surface. The first piece in the form of a letter. It was just kind of out of the blue. One of my father's sisters found a letter in storage. Appellate attorney Cliff Gardner says the letter was written by Eric Menendez to his

cousin Andy Cano, in December 1988, about eight months before the crime. It's not dated, but you were able to get a frame of reference of the timing of it based on the contents of the letter. Exactly. He talks about the Christmas party. We know the Christmas party that they put on was in Christmas of 88. He talks about hiring a new tennis coach. There's a number of things in the letter that allow us to authenticate when it was written.

And it's a particular section of the letter that Gardner says is key. He says, I've been trying to avoid Dad. It's still happening, Andy, but it's worse for me now. Every night I stay up thinking he might come in. I'm afraid. He's crazy. He's warned me a hundred times about telling anyone, especially Lyle.

No one knew about it, a child. It was never presented. Remember, Andy Cano did testify at both trials. He said that Eric Menendez, at age 13, confided in him that his dad had been touching him. Prosecutors suggested that Cano was lying. He explained to me that these massages that his father was giving him were beginning to hurt. The letter is significant. Why?

Well, the state's position was that Andy was a liar. Andy was making it up. This shows that Andy wasn't making it up. It's contemporaneous evidence from Eric to his cousin Andy about what was happening. But the letter was just the beginning. More evidence has surfaced that Gardner says further supports Lyle and Eric Menendez's longstanding claims that they were sexually abused. A man named Roy Rossello has come forward, claiming that he was sexually abused by Jose Menendez too. Roy was a member of the boy band Menudo, which was big in the late 70s, mid 80s.

There are sensation in the Spanish-speaking speaking world and throughout Latin America their appeal has caught on big. Menudo originated in Puerto Rico. The band is best known for producing big name talent like singer Ricky Martin. The idea behind the band was to keep it perpetually young. Few of the performers remained in the group beyond the age of 16, instead being rotated out for younger talent. It turns out Jose Menendez had ties to the group.

Jose Menendez was working at RCA at the time, and RCA signed Menudo to a recording contract. Former Menudo member Roy Rossello, now 54, was not available for an interview with 48Hours. But in a sworn affidavit filed just last year, he claims he went to Jose Menendez's home in the early 80s at the direction of the band's then-manager, Edgardo Diaz. Rossello would have been between 14 and 15 years old at the direction of the band's then manager, Edgardo Diaz. Rosello would have been between 14 and 15 years old at the time. He says he drank a glass of wine, then felt like he had no control over his body. He says Jose Menendez took him to a room and raped him.

Rosello first spoke publicly about the allegations in a documentary. I was in a terrible pain for a week. A pain that couldn't move me anymore. Rosello also alleges that he was sexually abused by Josep Menendez on two other occasions. Right before and right after the performance at radio City Music Hall in New York.

I met Roy and he talked to me about it. It was a difficult conversation for him it was difficult for me to hear. But I thought it was credible. It can take years for people to recognize what happened have the courage to come forward. When I first heard about it, I cried. For me, it was very meaningful to just have things come out that caused people

to really realize, okay, at least this part of what it's about is true. Lyle Menendez says he remembers Menudo band members coming over to the family home. When they lived in New Jersey before moving to Beverly Hills, he does not recall Rossella specifically. What do you remember about the Menudo band members

going to your home? Only that my father had sort of intimate involvement with that particular group. They usually would not have too much involvement with groups other than negotiations. But with Menudo and Eduardo Diaz, he traveled with them. He went to their concerts. He stayed in hotels that they stayed at. Lyle Menendez says he didn't think much of it until rumors began surfacing towards the end of he and his brother's first trial. People in the industry were talking about that maybe something had happened because

there was a sex scandal in the group. Rossello, along with other former Menudo members, have long accused Edgardo Diaz, the band's one-time manager manager of sexual abuse. Diaz has always denied the allegations, and no charges have been filed against him. The Los Angeles Police Department is currently investigating a specific incident in which Rossello alleges Diaz raped him at this hotel in the 1980s.

But what does this new evidence mean in terms of Lyle and Eric Menendez's case? The importance of the new evidence, you have to look back and understand what the state's position was at the second trial. The state's position was that the sexual abuse never happened. And the state's position as to Jose Menendez

was he wasn't the type of person who would molest a young boy. This new evidence takes both those arguments and undercuts them entirely. Gardner has filed a habeas petition asking that his client's convictions be vacated. The boys were abused as children. They were abused their whole life.

And this is a manslaughter case, not a murder case. It's just that simple. And if they were convicted of manslaughter, they would have received a much shorter sentence and been out a long time ago. But will a judge buy Gardner's argument? It is very, very possible that Jose Menendez was a child molester.

But you don't get to murder him and his wife in cold blood. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes, even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula.

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Hot Shot Australian attorney Nicola Gabba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty, representing some of the city's or Spotify. underworld and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants LawyerX. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals.

Listen to Informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry+. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, and listen to more Exhibit C, True Crime Shows, early and ad-free right now. After attorney Cliff Gardner filed the habeas petition in May 2023, asking that Lyle and Eric Menendez convictions be vacated, it turned into a waiting game for a judge to rule. We asked former DA Jackie Lacey what she makes of the new evidence, starting with that letter, the one that appears to have been written by Eric Menendez to his cousin Andy Cano months before the crime. The interesting thing about the letter is that there are only two people who can authenticate it, Andy Cano and Eric Menendez.

Andy Cano died in 2003 and Lacey points out that he never mentioned the letter when he testified. You would think when Andy was on the stand twice, he'd have brought that up and oh yeah he told me about it recently and here's the letter. The timing of that letter though you are able to sort of pin down because you know is the holidays because he writes about his Christmas plans. But Natalie, look at it another way. You could include those details and get that letter together after they were caught. This letter, for all we know, could have been written by Eric Menendez shortly after the

murder given to Kano, and Ko may have gotten cold feet about it and not submitted it. But Gardner argues the new evidence is sound. He says the reason the letter was not brought up at trial is likely because Eric Menendez and Andy Cano forgot about it. If you look at the letter, it's not just about what Jose's been doing,

it's about all sorts of other things. It was just one of many letters that they wrote to each other. There really shouldn't be any doubt about the authenticity of the letter. And as for Roy Rossello, the former Menudo band member, can you discount his claims altogether? No, I think what the judge has to weigh and consider is,

is this newly discovered evidence that would have changed the verdict? And Lacey says she does not believe it would have. They're still stuck with the planning, the cover-up, the money that they spent afterwards. I think that you could argue the sexual abuse occurred. On the other hand, at the moment these men are driving down to San Diego, paying for the murder weapons, coming back and waiting for an opportune time to go in and kill their

parents, the molestation is not occurring right then. I do not believe that at the time they murdered them, that they were in danger at that particular minute of being murdered by those people. I think they hated them. They might have had a good reason to hate them, but we can't condone vigilantism. When you calmly and logically look at the facts surrounding the killing, it's a murder. But Gardner believes the new evidence would have made a difference to the jurors. He says evidence of abuse can mitigate a crime and that's why prosecutors fought

so hard to keep it out of the second trial. Sexual abuse, physical abuse is relevant to your state of mind and state of mind is the key in determining whether something's murder or whether something's manslaughter. What this evidence does is it puts you back in the situation that they were in with the first trial, that there was corroboration for the abuse. And in the first trial, remember, two juries were divided over whether the brothers should have been convicted of murder or manslaughter. The court declares a mistrial.

Gardner thinks this new evidence, combined with that of the first trial, rules out murder entirely. My hope in the case is that the judge will realize that this new evidence is indeed credible and persuasive, and he'll vacate the convictions. If that happens, it would be up to the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office whether to retry the case. In a statement, the District

Attorney's Office said it is investigating the claims made in the habeas petition. Alan Anderson wants to see his cousins released. What I would say the prosecutors or judge would be, please look at all of the evidence. They are speaking the truth. They shouldn't be in there as long as they've been. But still, Kitty Menendez's brother, Milton Anderson, feels just the opposite. He says he doesn't believe the new evidence is credible. I don't think it's evidence.

And he wants his nephews to stay put. I think they should die of old age in prison. I loved my sister and I protected her in life. And I will love my sister and protect her in her death. Lyle Menendez says he understands his uncle's pain. Part of my remorse is for the pain I caused to people like him. As they await a judge's decision, Lyle and Eric Menendez, who reside in the same prison

since 2018, are focused on rehabilitation and continuing their education. I connect with other prisoners that have sex abuse histories and work with them. Both brothers are married to women outside prison. I think it has made a huge difference to have love and support like that. I try not to be defined by that one night. And for the lifelong journey, not to be defined by that one night. It is unclear when a ruling will be made in the case.

Join me Tuesday for Post Mortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case. If you like this podcast, you can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at Wondery.com slash survey. In November 1991, media tycoon Robert Maxwell mysteriously vanished from his luxury yacht in the Canary Islands. But it wasn't just his body that would come to the surface in the days that followed. It soon emerged that Robert's business was on the brink of collapse and behind his facade of

wealth and success was a litany of bad investments, mounting debt, and multi-million dollar fraud. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show Business Movers. We tell the true stories of business leaders who risked it all, the critical moments that define their journey, and the ideas that transform the way we live our lives. In our latest series, a young refugee fleeing the Nazis arrives in Britain determined to make something of his life. Taking the name Robert Maxwell, he builds a publishing and newspaper empire that spans the globe.

But ambition eventually curdles into desperation, and Robert's determination to succeed turns into a willingness to do anything to get ahead. Follow Business Movers wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondry app.