48 Hours - Who Wanted Howard Pilmar Dead?

Episode Date: October 27, 2019

The wife of a NYC businessman is suspected of murdering him with help from her brother -- why would she want him dead and why did it take more than two decades to crack the case? "48 Hours" correspondent Richard Schlesinger reports.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. Even if you love the thrill of true crime stories as much as I do, there are times when you want to mix it up. And that's where Audible comes in, with all the genres you love and new ones to discover. Explore thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. thousands of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals, with more added all the time. Listening to Audible can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and even your overall well-being. And you can enjoy Audible anytime, while doing household chores, exercising, commuting, you name it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert

to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military. And when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Hi, Hal. It's like a quarter to ten, and Philip and I were wondering if you were still at work.

Give me a call. Let me know what time you're going to be home. Talk to you later. Bye. Love you. We were in Arizona when I got a phone call on a Friday morning, March 22nd, 1996, to tell me that Howard was a victim of a homicide. I was in complete disbelief.

No, I can't be. you know, I mean, murdered. It was very violent. He was slaughtered. He was stabbed over 40 times. It had to be somebody who he knew that hated him so much. Who could have done this to Howard? Who would want to kill my son? How can I tell you about Howard?

With me, the sun rose and set with Howard. He couldn't do anything wrong. Howard was full of energy. He was good-looking. He loved to dress and go out. He was married to Rosalind, and they had a child, Philip, who was the love of his life.

Howard worked for you, right? Oh, sure. We had an office supply and stationary business. He made me look like a vinyl leaguer as far as being a entrepreneur, he was thought this little coffee thing in our store. Starbucks before Starbucks was Starbucks. That's right.

I said, people in New York are not going to be walking around the streets with coffee cups. Shows you how smart I was, but he was a little bit smarter. Here's ours, right here. We miss you so very, very much. Howard, please. They never found the weapon, and they never had a witness. I called the police practically every day.

I wouldn't give up. Years went by. Dear son, it is five years, ten years, 15 years, 17 years, 20 years, since your horrific murder. He's 90. I was worried Frank would not see the end of this. Today is 22 years.

How can we let them get away with murder? As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was,

but also how outrageous it was. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld,

and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's

most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now. It was Friday, March 22nd. I was in the greatest mood.

Blue sky, bright sunshine. It was the first day you feel like spring is coming. I was feeling great. But Ron Tucker's mood and his day and his life were about to change. Because on that beautiful morning in 1996, when the King office supply salesman arrived at work, he learned his boss, Howard Pilmar, had been murdered in the office. Within 30 seconds of coming here, they brought the body out right here. I couldn't, I'm racking my brain. What happened? Howard Pilmar's body was found in a large pool of blood in the fourth floor offices.

It was bloody because after he's on the floor for a few hours, he's draining out. Roger Perino was in charge of the Midtown South detectives. Pilmar was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, back, and neck. There was no sign of forced entry. Nothing was taken from the office or from his wallet. We've got to get down to business. We don't know what we have here. Howard had just turned 40. He was married, the father of a young son. He had recently taken over his family's successful office supply store,

recently taken over his family's successful office supply store so his father, Frank, and stepmother, Carol, could spend more time in Arizona. And that's where they got the news. I was dead. Couldn't believe it. Howard was a swaggering risk taker. He was a visionary. He envisioned that people would go crazy for coffee and be willing to spend big for it. So he opened the first of its kind high-end coffee bar inside a store. I'm telling you, there were a lot of people out the door right here. A lot of people. He named it Phillips after his young son it was so successful he opened a second shop around the corner from carnegie hall his wife rosalyn gave up her career

as a dental hygienist to run the coffee business and on that march morning after the murder, Rosalind joined the employees gathered inside King Office Supply, putting on a brave face. She was totally calm, composed, collected. No tears, no anger, no nothing. I thought to myself, what a trooper. She assured everyone the business would endure. Don't worry. We're going to carry on. We're going to keep the business. It's almost like it wasn't real. Her husband was dead. Her best friend. Roslyn's sister, Jana, says Howard and Roslyn were high school sweethearts. They had a great love.

They married in 1982. It was a beautiful wedding. Howard's sister, Rhonda, was there. It was a big, beautiful wedding. So was his stepsister, Heather. Frank adopted Heather when he married her mother, Carol. Ros was like a sister to me. She was probably one of my closest friends. Roslyn and Howard were living the life. An apartment on New York's swanky Upper East Side, a home in the country, and in 1986, their son Phillip was born. It was the perfect family. As passionate Howard was about business, that's how he was about his son. But now Howard's life was over. It's as if someone punches you in the stomach as

hard as they could and knocks the wind out of you. I couldn't take a deep breath. I have my life before Howard was killed and my life after Howard was killed. They didn't really understand the ramifications of it, how it would change my father, how it would change the dynamic of my family. The police now needed to learn all about Howard's family and his friends and his business. Who's the last one to see him? Who's the last one to talk to him? Who's related to him? Who's

worked with him? Who should have been here? Who was here? Who first sees him? Who's coming next? Who were the last people to see Howard Pilmar? It was his wife and his brother-in-law. to see Howard Pillmore? It was his wife and his brother-in-law. Perino went to the Pillmore's apartment to talk to Roslyn. She seemed cooperative, helpful. What did you talk to her about? Just normal things.

How was her marriage? She said that they were happily married. According to Roslyn, on the night of the murder, she and her brother, Evan Wald, who worked at Phillips Coffee, met Howard at his office. Roslyn told police that she and Evan left Howard, who planned to keep working and watch a basketball game. But later that night, when Howard didn't come home, Roslyn left this voicemail on his office phone. Hi, Hal. It's like a quarter to ten. home, Roslyn left this voicemail on his office phone.

Hi, Hal. It's like a quarter to 10. Philip and I were wondering if you were still at work working or if you went off to some sports bar like you said you wanted to to go watch the NCAAs. I'm sure you'll call me from wherever you are and talk to you later. Bye. Love ya. Howard never called back, but Roslyn made a lot of calls asking about him, including in the early morning hours to several hospitals.

Police had a lot to sift through. In interviewing all those people and talking to all those people, you just take the facts where they lead you. Perino's detectives heard stories about disgruntled employees. Could one of them be the killer? There were rumors that Howard was a womanizer. Could it be a jealous husband? Lots of people have motives. You got to have more than just a motive. There's got to be a reason. And then you have to have access. And whoever did it would also have to have a lot of anger. Howard had been stabbed 48 times. It was, in a word, overkill.

A good percentage of the stab wounds on the back were old post-mortem. After he was dead? Yeah, after he was dead. This is, I want to make sure you're dead, absolutely dead, completely and utterly dead. There were some leads that looked promising early on. When detectives interviewed Rosalind's brother, Evan, they noticed something. He had an injury on his hand. He had cuts on his left hand.

He said he got them when he was working at Phillips Coffee. Did they look suspicious to you, given that this was a stabbing? So the cuts don't look suspicious. The individual starts looking suspicious. They thought it could be suspicious when they learned Evan and Howard did not get along. And there was more. We found out that Evan was asking questions about what he thought was a camera. Asking questions about the alarm system.

about what he thought was a camera, asking questions about the alarm system. And there were also one or two surprises about Rosalyn. We find out that Ros and Howard's marriage is not successful and she was giving us a different image. It was beginning to look like Howard's murder could be a family affair. It was mind-blowing. It was like, no way. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island.

It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still a virgin. It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones, and for almost two years, I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with.

In the Pitcairn trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly. Introducing the best idea yet, a brand new podcast from Wondery and T-Boy about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bolder risk takers who brought them to life. Like, did you know that Super Mario, the best-selling video

game character of all time, only exists because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye? Or Jack, that the idea for the McDonald's Happy Meal first came from a mom in Guatemala? From Pez dispensers to Levi's 501s to Air Jordans, discover the surprising stories of the most viral products. Plus, we guarantee that after listening, you're going to dominate your next dinner party. So follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Best Idea Yet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+. It's just the best idea yet. I'm telling you, on the way to the cemetery, I knew that something was wrong.

Frank Pilmar knew, now that Howard was dead, that Rosalind could make out really well. I love you and I always love you. She's the one who would get more than a million dollars in life insurance, the family's real estate, and King Office Supply, the company that Frank Pilmar had built and passed on to his son. Here I gave up the business. She got it. I just couldn't even look at her. Gave up the business. She's got it. I just couldn't even look at her. And Rosalind appeared to be moving quickly.

Less than two weeks after Howard was killed, she went to King Office Supply, and despite what she had said just ten days earlier, she announced she was selling the company. I was shocked at that. Ron Tucker says when she should have been grieving over all she'd lost, Rosalyn had been negotiating over how much she'd get for the business. It's inconceivable that you would do that instead of mourn. And right then and there, I started to question her motives.

Police also had questions about Rosalind, and they were starting to see why she might have needed money, and fast. I think when we find out about the financial issues, she's not quite what we originally thought we were looking at here. For 16 years, Rosalind worked for a dentist, Dr. Stanley Weinstock. She was his dental assistant and also his bookkeeper. The police found out she embezzled money from her boss, and a lot of it, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It was like a family member stealing from you. Nobody noticed until after she left to manage Phillips Coffee. his accountant, Neil Klein, discovered Rosalind had deposited 186 patient's checks into her own bank account. And how long had she been doing this? About three, four years. Klein confronted her in late 1995, just a few months before Howard's murder. She just said, yes, I took the money. And she said, don't tell my husband. She said that? Yes. He'll throw me out and I'll never see my son again. What did you make of that? That was pretty shocking. Klein agreed to keep her secret. Rosalyn agreed to repay the money. Weeks go by, and I called her several times.

And it's happening, it's happening, it's happening. But of course, it didn't happen. And Rosalyn owed even more money. She was supposed to pay the taxes for the coffee shop, but she didn't. And she owed New York State almost $15,000. The state was threatening to seize the business if the taxes weren't paid. All this started to add up, give reason for the murder. I mean, she was desperate for money. She was afraid if he found out, he would divorce her. She didn't want to lose Phillip. Here's a woman who's an embezzler.

She's a tax cheater. She's not fit to be a mother. Rosalyn didn't talk about her problems, but Heather noticed Rosalyn seemed jittery in the weeks before the murder. She seemed really stressed out. Then I did ask her, you know, is everything okay? Because she like lost a lot of weight. She was like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. Heather didn't bring it up again, but she did ask Evan about his sister. He said to me,

if Howard hurts her in any way, and I was like, what do you mean? If he hurt her, I would kill him. And I said, what? He said, if he hurts her, I will kill him? Yeah. Well, I mean, at that point, did you think that Evan was capable of murder? No. But the next night, Howard was murdered.

Next night, Howard was murdered. I immediately thought that Evan did it. I had like a pit in my stomach. Heather had a more difficult time believing Rosalyn was involved. I still couldn't believe that this person that I've known most of my life could do something like this. Even though there was no physical evidence, her father never had a doubt. Anytime I've met anyone going back all these years who've asked me about who did this, I said his wife and her brother. Rosalind knew what Frank thought and decided he, Carol, and Heather could never speak to her or Philip again. His family was split apart,

but right from the start, Frank decided he was not going to let his son's killers get away with it. He would spend lots of times coming to the precinct or even calling my supervisors, telling them that we need to do a better job. So you would call them, what, once a week? No. Once a month? Maybe once a day. Once a day.

Maybe once every other day. Did you ever hear from Rosalind? She ever call asking what was going on? No. Never? No. While Rosalind didn't seem interested in the police, they stayed interested in her and her family.

About a year later, detectives put up posters asking the public for help in solving the case. And the posters kept disappearing. We set up a surveillance van to see what was happening. And then who was it? It's Evan. Evan tearing down the posters. That woman with him, that's Jana, Rosalyn and Evan's sister. They just kept plastering them all over the doors of the business.

I found it extremely harassing. I'm sorry that in an investigation to solve their brother-in-law or husband's murder that they thought it was harassment to try to get more information. You're not really sorry? No. About a year after the murder, Rosalind was arrested, but only for embezzling from the dentist. She pled guilty and was given probation after paying back the money she stole.

Where'd she get the money to pay? The insurance policy and the sale of the business, I believe. Did that tell you anything? Yeah, it's all part of the motive. It's a circumstantial case, and it's kind of like a bucket of water, right? So every drop fills that bucket, and it's not until that bucket's full is it ready to go. And in 1999, it looked like new evidence would start pouring in. DNA technology had advanced, pouring in. DNA technology had advanced and a court ordered Evan Wald to give a sample of his blood. It was a match, a match to this small drop of blood found near Howard's body. Puts him on the

scene, puts him in the place. It was one crucial piece of physical evidence, but it was not enough for prosecutors. And the case went cold. Did you despair? I don't think I ever despaired. No, she did. I didn't want to get his hopes up. And then, you know, she thought I was nuts. But Frank refused to give up. I remember feeling that something good was going to come with this because I was getting too old for it not to happen. Why do you think Evan tore down the posters? See more of the surveillance footage at 48hours.com. Over the decades, Rosalyn and Evan moved on with their lives.

Their sister, Jana, says Rosalyn returned to being a hygienist. She worked like everybody else does. You work, make a paycheck, you pay your bills. She raised an amazing son. Phillip went to private school, then on to college and law school. He eventually joined a top firm and got married. Evan got married and continued his career in the food industry. There wasn't a shadow over your brother and sister. They didn't feel like they had to look over their shoulders. Why should you look over your shoulder when you're innocent? But what they didn't know was Manhattan prosecutors Elizabeth Lederer and Melissa Hindman had spent four years reviewing all the evidence and finding new witnesses. And on August 15, 2017,

Jana received a panicked early morning call from Evan's wife. Evan just got arrested. And I said, for what? Howard's murder. I was like, are you kidding me? Jana barely hung up when the phone rang again. And this time it was about Rosalyn. My sister was arrested. And all I did was break down and cry.

Jana is just as certain today as she was when Howard Pillmore was murdered that her siblings are innocent. I think people listening to you may say she's a very good sister, she's devoted, but she can't accept what's staring her in the face. I don't think that's correct. I'm sorry. I don't think that's correct. I'm sorry. Even being biased, and I love my family, but they're just not capable.

These are not killers. Frank and Carol, not surprisingly, reacted to the arrest somewhat differently. We all hugged and cried. Of course, I didn't really expect her to be arrested as well. Frank immediately called his daughters in New York. I remember my heart. I couldn't control myself. My heart was pounding, so it was unbelievable.

You've known for all these years that at some point something's going to happen. I was kind of shaking inside. Rosalyn and Evan were held without bail. That was a big day for us. But it was a very bad day for the Walds, especially when they visited Rosalind and Evan behind bars. I've never felt so broken in my life. I went through all the evidence and it wasn't a shred, a scintilla of new evidence against Evan Wald. Daniel Gotland is Evan's attorney. Bring me the evidence. You will find there's nothing, zero. Now the defense has to deal with a case that's more than 20 years old.

Roslyn's lawyer is Sam Tolkien. These are witnesses that passed away. We don't have an opportunity to canvass the neighborhood. We don't have an opportunity to talk individually and conduct our own investigation. They will have to explain that drop of Evan's blood at the crime scene. Evan's family and his lawyers reminded everyone that Evan worked in the food business, in kitchens, where people frequently cut themselves and that he sometimes prepared meals at Howard's office. There's no way of telling when that blood was put there. Of course, there's also the hundreds of thousands of dollars Roslyn embezzled from

the dentist. Roslyn's sister, Jana, says Roslyn did a bad thing, but for a good reason. Mr. Jana says Rosalind did a bad thing, but for a good reason. Their mother was having difficulty paying the mortgage. I guess my sister felt that she wanted to help her. So why did Rosalind keep it a secret from Howard? Jana says that's simple. She didn't. Howard knew what Rosalind had done.

He did know? Absolutely. My sister told me. I'm sure Howard was not jumping up and down for joy, but it was something that they could work out. My belief is that he wouldn't have known unless he knew moments before he was killed. Wow, that's chilling. The Wald family believed the police focused solely on Evan and Rosalyn

and ignored other possible suspects. There were other people that may have had a motive. I found multiple people that didn't like the deceased. Some of them had made threats. In interviewing all those people, there was nothing that came out. So it's following the evidence, and it's going nowhere but right back to Rosalind and Evan. On January 17th, almost 23 years after Howard Pilmar's murder, his wife Rosalind and brother-in-law Evan went on trial for killing him.

There was some kind of satisfaction seeing them in handcuffs. Frank and Carol Pilmar came from Arizona, and for the first time in decades, they came face-to-face with their former daughter-in-law and their grandson, Philip. I saw him, and he looked exactly like Howard. One face, you knew that this kid was Howard's kid. They're one face. But they never spoke. It's as divided as that aisle in between.

There was our side and there was their side. And it was that simple. Both sides sat through graphic evidence about the gruesome killing. Rosalind Pilmore and Evan Wald savagely and brutally murdered Howard Pilmore. Their plan was deliberate and detailed. It was meticulously carried out. The evidence was mostly circumstantial, but Evans' lawyer Dan Gottlin was worried. There was that drop of Evans' blood at the crime scene.

It is the only physical evidence that ties him to the murder. Clearly it's Evans' blood. We don't dispute that. Gottlin says there's no way to know when the blood drop got there, but investigators noticed that injury to Evan's hand the day after the murder. His left hand, because he is left-handed, held the knife. Maybe as Howard bled, the knife handle became slippery. We won't know for sure, but all we do know is that Evan cut himself and bled at the scene where he killed Howard Kilmar. The knife was never found and police waited a week to photograph Evan's hand. And if you look at those photographs, it's not

just one cut, it's a number of cuts. But the defense insists Evan cut himself while working the day before the murder. He said, I was at an event, and at the event, a plate dropped, and I cleaned it up and I cut my hand. That's why he was wearing a Band-Aid. Except the prosecution had Heather's testimony, that she saw Evan the night before the murder, and he seemed fine. Did he have any cuts on his hands or anything? No, he did not. He only had coffee grinds under his fingernails, the way I did. There were no bandages on his hands.

But Gottlin hopes the jury will wonder, if this drop of Evan's blood got there when Howard was murdered, why wasn't it mixed with Howard's blood? If he's stabbing him and Howard's bleeding, blood should have gotten all over him. And Evan's blood was not found anywhere else. There was no blood found of him in the bathroom where he supposedly went to clean up. None of his blood found anywhere near the crime scene. There's no blood of his found on the stairwell going down into the street. In fact, there's no blood of his found on the stairwell going down into the street.

In fact, there's no blood found in the street. And what will jurors think about Heather's account of her conversation with Evan the night before the murder, where she says he told her if Howard hurt Rosalind, he would kill him. That's not a good thing to have to explain. What I have preferred, look. Especially when your client shows up with cuts on his hand. Would I have preferred that there were no cuts on his hand, that there was no blood on the wall, or he hadn't made any statements? Yes, because then,

even though I love speaking to you, I wouldn't be speaking to you because there wouldn't have been any case. But the case against Rosalyn was all circumstantial. Even though her family says she was happily married to Howard, the prosecution says Howard had met with a divorce lawyer. And all the while, Rosalyn was facing mounting pressure to pay back her crushing debts. She had to find money, and she had to find it quickly. She owed all that money she embezzled from the dentist. We had the debt from the dentist, but it wasn't due. That's not

what Neil Klein says. The dentist's accountant remembers leaning on Rosalind for the money in the weeks leading up to Howard's murder. Were you saying to her, we need the money? Yeah. We need it soon? Yeah. I was putting a little more pressure on her, yes. You don't strike me as a kneecapping kind of guy. So how were you turning up the pressure on her? Justice said, Ross, this can't go on much longer. If you're not going to make payment, then we're going to have to go further. At the same time, New York State was demanding the back taxes for Phillips Coffee. And if she doesn't pay by certified check on that day, they'll file a lien. They'll padlock the store. The due date, March 21st, the same day

Howard was murdered. Needing money does not mean that you're going to kill your husband. Killing your husband doesn't mean it's going to resolve the need for money. Evan and Rosalyn both decided not to testify, but the jurors heard Rosalyn on that message she left on Howard's voicemail. Hi, Hal. It's like a quarter to 10, and Philip and I were wondering if he was still at work working or if he went home. If you listen to it, and I've listened to it a thousand times, that is clearly a woman who is looking for her husband in his world. But not everyone hears it the same way. Anyway, I got home, I guess, by like 8.10, 8.15, and Roseman called about 8, for 8.30. He was still at the office.

I told him to try to call you. I hear a timeline being put down for the police's benefit. Really? Yeah. It's just too contrived, too drawn out. Talk to you later. Bye. Love ya.

And the state has a witness who's relatively new to the case. Allison Lewis. In 1996, she was Phillip's nanny. She was just out of college, and she didn't want to talk to police back then. I think when you consider the fact that this was the person who was paying her and employing her, and perhaps as she matured and got older, she realized that she had something that she could share.

She now says on the night of the murder, she took Phillip to ice hockey practice because Rosalind and Evan planned to meet with Howard. She said that Rosalind Pilmar was very vague in her instructions to her, that it was very different than she usually was. Allison says Rosalind later told her to take Philip home after practice because she was still at Howard's office. She said, we're not done here. Those words are chilling, ladies and gentlemen. And you know that she's at the fourth floor, the King office company, with Howard Pilmar and her brother.

And when Allison and Philip finally arrived home, Rosalind met them at the door. She had wet hair. Allison said it was odd. The apartment was dark, and Rosalyn didn't want her to come in. I'm sorry, but I do not believe a single word that came out of her mouth. Rosalyn's sister, Jana, says there's no one to corroborate Allison Lewis's testimony. I'm still very dismayed by the fact that she was so adamant about not wanting to talk to the police, and then 20 years later was so willing to talk. The trial lasted almost two months, and then the jury got the case. And from their first vote, the jurors knew their job would be tough.

Listen, things got pretty heated at times i was feeling very nervous if you're not nervous when the jury goes out you're not alive by the second day were you coming together were when the jury goes out, you're not alive. By the second day, were you coming together? Were the votes getting closer? I don't think so. No. We had two staunch holdouts.

I think in a case like this, the longer the better. By the fourth day of jury deliberations, defense attorney Sam Tolkien was starting to feel optimistic. We're asking them to think, and they were thinking. So yes, I think that was a good sign. That afternoon, the jury came back. My father was in a courtroom. On the other side, Philip was there with Roz's family.

Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom for the verdict. We sat down, and I'm holding his hand. I was scared. And I was, like, crying inside. What were you worried about? What were you scared of? That he dropped dead. Literally? Yeah.

I thought he'd collapse. Literally. Yeah. I thought he'd collapse. We're lining up, and it was at that moment that the entire room tensed up. Ryan Smith, Sam Resnikow, and the other jurors prepared themselves to deliver their verdict and headed for the courtroom. We walked in, and it was super quiet, and you could just feel the room vibrating.

Smith was the jury foreman. He announced the verdict. Ross was first. And that was what? Guilty. And the second was Evan's verdict, and that was? Guilty. Both guilty of second-degree murder.

After nearly 23 years, it was almost as though the word echoed through the courtroom. When you heard the verdict? Frank didn't hear it. My father couldn't hear a word. I screamed in his ear. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Guilty. Guilty. I couldn't hear a word. I screamed in his ear, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. I was like, you're so happy. Both of us were hugging and crying. When Philip heard his mother had been convicted of killing his father, he ran out of the room. We were all shocked by the verdict. I felt so numb.

I can't even begin to describe how it... the pain... the heartbreak. Both families would have to wait for four months to find out how much time Rosalyn and Evan would serve. In July 2019, family, friends, lawyers, and detectives crowded into the courtroom for the sentencing hearing. Philip was there alongside Roz and Evan's sister. But before Rosalind and Evan hear their sentences, they will have to hear family members tell Judge Gilbert Hong what Howard's murder had done to them. March 22nd, 1996, was the worst day of my life. Sorry. To bury a child, in my case, is depths. Our lives have never been the same and never will be.

I implore you to give these murderers the maximum sentence. I want them to suffer. You want them to suffer? Yes. It's not that I want them to suffer. They've got to pay the price. You just don't go killing people. Frank was next. You know, your honor,

every night when I go to bed, I try to close my eyes before hoping that I will get some sleep. But I can't get sleep because I keep thinking about the terror and the fear that went through Howard's mind in those last seconds that he was slaughtered and butchered by those two. Then Frank turned to speak to his grandson. And I'm going to direct this to Philip. They have not spoken in more than two decades. That day in March, I lost three things, two of which I can never, ever get back,

my son and my business. But I also lost Philip. And I know Philip doesn't want to look at me. I'm sorry about that. But I just lost Philip. And I know Philip doesn't want to look at me. I'm sorry about that. But I just want him to know we love you and we want you back. Please. That's it, Your Honor. I was hoping that he would come and reciprocate and hold me around and hug me. But that never happened.

Philip did not speak to his grandfather, but he did speak to the court. You can't hear him because he asked the judge to order us to cut off the audio. These are the words of a son trying valiantly to save his mother from spending the rest of her life in prison. Having my mom die in jail will not bring back my dad. As his uncle and his mother wept, Philip credited her for making him the man he is today. for making him the man he is today. She raised me to be kind, to be loving, to value education, value hard work. She was there for me every step of the way when I struggled with the death of my dad. He asked the judge for leniency, but it didn't work.

This was an exceptionally brutal and violent murder. Its violence and brutality revealed boundless anger and hatred towards Mr. Pillmore for this crime, for this murder. I sentence each of you to 25 years to life incarceration. It's the maximum sentence, and it's what Howard's family, except for Philip, wanted. But still, they are not doing much celebrating. It's bittersweet. There's justice for Howard, and that's the important thing, but there's collateral damage.

We all lost something. How you doing, my son? What does justice feel like? You've gotten it. Justice feels like happiness. I just feel that, Frank, you worked at it. All your work paid off. Because I'm finally after all these years.

Rosalind Pilmar and Evan Wald are appealing the verdict.