A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs - Episode 164: “White Light/White Heat” by the Velvet Underground

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Episode 164 of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “White Light/White Heat” and the career of the Velvet Underground. This is a long one, lasting three hours and twenty... minutes. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a twenty-three minute bonus episode available, on “Why Don’t You Smile Now?” by the Downliners Sect. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt’s irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ (more…)

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Starting point is 00:00:00 A History of rock music in 500 songs By Andrew Hake Episode 164 White Light White Heat By the Velvet Underground Before I begin this episode There are a few things to say This introductory section is going to be longer than normal
Starting point is 00:00:23 Because, as you will hear This episode is also going to be longer than normal Firstly, I try to warn people about potentially upsetting material in these episodes, but this is the first episode for 1968, and as you will see, there is a profound increase in the amount of upsetting and disturbing material covered as we go through 1968 and 1969. The story is going to be in a much darker place for the next 20 or 30 episodes, and this episode is no exception. As always, I try to deal with a everything as sensitively as possible, but you should be aware that the list of warnings for this
Starting point is 00:01:03 one is so long I am very likely to have missed some. Among the topics touched on in this episode, a mental illness, drug addiction, gun violence, racism, societal and medical homophobia, medical mistreatment of mental illness, domestic abuse, rape and more. If you find discussion of any of these subjects upsetting, you may want to read the transcript. Also, I use the term queer freely in this episode. In the past, I have received some pushback for this, because of a belief among some that queer is a slur. The following explanation will seem redundant to many of my listeners. But as with many of the things I discuss in the podcast, I am dealing with multiple different audiences with different levels of awareness and understanding of issues,
Starting point is 00:01:52 so I'd like to beg those people's indulgence a moment. The term queer has certainly been used as a slur in the past, but so have terms like lesbian, gay, homosexual, and others. In all those cases, the term has gone from a term used as a self-identifier, to a slur, to a reclaimed slur, and back again, many times. The reason for using that word specifically here is because the vast majority of people in this story have sexualities or genders that don't match the societal norms of their times, but use labels for themselves that have shifted a meaning over the years. There are at least two men in the story, for example, who are now dead and referred to themselves as homosexual, but were in multiple long-term sexually active relationships with women. Would those
Starting point is 00:02:42 men now refer to themselves as bisexual or pansexual? Terms not in widespread use at the time, or would they, in the relatively more tolerant society we live in now, only have been in same-gender relationships. We can't know. But in our current context, using the word homosexual for those men would lead to incorrect assumptions about their behaviour. The labels people use change over time, and the definitions of them blur and shift. I have discussed this issue with many, many friends who fall under the queer umbrella, and while not all of them are comfortable with queer as a personal label, because of how it's been used against them in the past, there is near unanimity from them that it's the correct word to use in this situation.
Starting point is 00:03:25 Anyway, now that that rather lengthy set of disclaimers is over, let's get into the story proper, as we look at White Light, White Heat, by the Velvet Underground. And that look will start with a disclaimer about length. This episode is going to be a long one. Not as long as episode 150, but almost certainly the longest episode I'll do this year by some way. And there's a reason for that.
Starting point is 00:04:19 One of the questions I've been asked repeatedly over the years about the podcast is why almost all the acts I've covered have been extremely commercially successful ones. Where are the underground bands, the alternative bands, the little niche acts? The answer to that is simple. Until the mid-60s, the idea of an underground or alternative band made no sense at all in rock, pop, rock and roll, R&B or soul. The idea would have been completely counterintuitive. to the vast majority of the people we've discussed in the podcast.
Starting point is 00:04:53 Those musics were commercial musics, made by people who wanted to make money and get the largest audience as possible. That doesn't mean that they had no artistic merit, or that there was no artistic intent behind them, but the artists making that music were commercial artists. They knew if they wanted to make another record, they had to sell enough copies of the last record
Starting point is 00:05:14 for the record company to make another, and that if they wanted to keep eating, they had to draw enough of an audience to their gigs for promoters to keep booking them. There was no space in this worldview for what we might think of as cult success. If your record only sold a thousand copies, then you had failed in your goal,
Starting point is 00:05:33 even if the thousand people who bought your record really loved it. Even less commercially successful artists we've covered to this point, like the Mothers of Invention or Love, were trying for commercial success, even if they made the decision not to compromise as much as others do. This started to change a tiny bit in the mid-60s, as the influence of jazz and folk in the US and the British blues scene
Starting point is 00:05:57 started to be felt in rock music. But this influence at first was a one-way thing, people who had been in the folk and jazz worlds deciding to modify their music to be more commercial. And that was followed by already massively commercial musicians, like the Beatles, taking on some of those influences and bringing their audience with them.
Starting point is 00:06:17 But that started to change around the time that Rock started to differentiate itself from rock and roll and pop in mid-1967. So in this episode and the next, we're going to look at two bands who, in different ways, provided a model for how to be an alternative band. Both of them still wanted commercial success, but neither achieved it, at least not at first,
Starting point is 00:06:42 and not in the conventional way, and both, when they started out, went by the name the Warlocks. But we have to take a rather circuitous route to get to this week's band, because we're now properly introducing a strand of music that has been there in the background for a while, avant-garde art music. So, before we go any further, let's have a listen to a 30-second clip
Starting point is 00:07:05 of the most famous piece of avant-garde music ever, and I'll be performing it myself. Obviously, that won't give the full effect. you have to listen to the whole piece to get that. That is, of course, a section of 4 Minutes 33 by John Cage, a piece of music that is often incorrectly described as being 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. As I've mentioned before, though, in the episode on Popper's Got a Brand New Bag, it isn't that at all.
Starting point is 00:08:04 The whole point of the piece is that there's no such thing as silence, and it's intended to make the listener appreciate all the normal ambivales, sounds as music, every bit as much as any piece by Bach or Beethoven. John Cage, the composer of Four Minutes 33, is possibly the single most influential avant-garde artist of the mid-20th century. So, as we're properly introducing the ideas of avant-garde music into the story here, we need to talk about him a little. Cage was, from an early age, torn between three great vocations, all of which in some fashion would shape his work for decades to come. One of these was architecture, and for a time he intended to become an architect. Another was
Starting point is 00:08:48 the religious ministry, and he very seriously considered becoming a minister as a young man. And religion, though not the religious faith of his youth, was to be a massive factor in his work as he grew older. He started studying music from an early age, though he never had any facility as a performer. Though he did, when he discovered the work of Grieg, think that might change. He later said, for a while I played nothing else. I even imagined devoting my life to the performance of his works alone, for they did not seem to me to be too difficult, and I loved them. But he soon realised that he didn't have some of the basic skills
Starting point is 00:09:52 that would be required to be a performer. He never actually thought to himself as very musical, and so he decided to move into composition, and he later talked about putting his musical limits to good use in being more inventive. From his very first pieces, Cage was trying to expand the definition of what a performance of a piece of music actually was. One of his friends, Harry Hay,
Starting point is 00:10:15 who took part in the first documented performance of a piece by Cage, described how Cage's father, an inventor, had devised a fluorescent light source over which sample, Don Sample, Cage's boyfriend at the time, laid a piece of vellum painted with designs in oils. The blankets I was wearing were white and a sort of lampshades shone coloured patterns onto me. It looked very good.
Starting point is 00:10:38 The thing got so hot the designs began to run, but that only made it better. Apparently the audience for this light show, one that predated the light shows used by rock bands by a good 30 years, were not impressed, though that may be more because the Santa Monica Women's Club in the early 1930s was not the vanguard of the avant-garde.
Starting point is 00:10:59 Or maybe it was. Certainly the housewives of Santa Monica seemed more willing than one might expect to sign up for another of Cage's ideas. In 1933, he went door-to-door asking women if they would be interested in signing up to a lecture course from him on modern art and music. He told them that if they signed up for $2.50,
Starting point is 00:11:20 he would give them ten lectures, and somewhere between 20 and 40 of them signed up. Even though, as he said later, I explained to the housewives that I didn't know anything about either subject, but that I was enthusiastic about both of them. I promise to learn faithfully enough about each subject so as to be able to give a talk an hour long each week.
Starting point is 00:11:39 And he did just that, going to the library every day and spending all week preparing an hour-long talk for them. History does not relate whether he ended these lectures by telling the housewives to tell just one friend about them. He said later, I came out of these lectures with a devotion to the painting of Mondrian on the one hand, and the music of Schoenberg on the other.
Starting point is 00:12:00 Schernberg was one of the two most widely respected composers in the world at that point. The other being Stravinsky, but the two had very different attitudes to composition. Schernberg's great innovation was the creation and popularization of the 12-tone technique, and I should explain that a little before I go any further. Most Western music is based on an eight-note scale, Dové Mifasolati-Do, with the eighth note being an octave up from the first, So in the key of C major that would be C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C. And when you hear notes from that scale,
Starting point is 00:13:10 if your ears are accustomed to basically any Western music written before about 1920, or any Western popular music written since then, you expect the melody to lead back to C, and you know to expect that because it only uses those notes. There are differing intervals between them, some having a tone between them and some having a semi-tone, and you recognise the pattern. But of course there are other notes between the notes of that scale.
Starting point is 00:13:36 There are actually an infinite number of these, but in conventional western music we only look at a few more. C-sharp or D-flat. D-sharp or E-flat. F-sharp or G-sharp or G-sharp or A-flat. If you add in all those notes, you get this. There's no clear beginning or end. No, doe, for it's to.
Starting point is 00:14:05 come back to, and Schoenberg's great innovation, which he was only starting to promote widely around this time, was to insist that all 12 notes should be equal. His maladies would use all 12 of the notes the exact same number of times, and so if he used, say, a B-flat, he would have to use all 11 other notes before he used B-flat again in the piece. This was a radical new idea, but Schenberg had only started advancing it, after first when in greater claim for earlier pieces, like his three pieces for piano, a work which wasn't properly 12-tone, but did try to do without the idea of having any one note be more important than any other. At this point, that work had only been performed in the US by one performer, Richard Bullig, and hadn't
Starting point is 00:15:34 been released as a recording yet. Cage was so eager to hear it that he'd found Bullig's phone number and called him, asking him to play the piece, but Bullig put the phone down on him. Now he was doing these lectures though, he had to do one on Schoenberg, and he wasn't a competent enough pianist to play Schenberg's pieces himself, and there were still no recordings of them. Cage hitchhiked from Santa Monica to L.A., where Boolig lived, to try to get him to come and visit his class and play some of Schenberg's pieces for them. Boolig wasn't in, and Cage hung around in his garden, hoping from him to come back. He pulled the leaves off about from one of Boolig's trees, going, he'll come back. He won't come back. He won't come
Starting point is 00:16:15 back. He'll come back, and the leaves said he'd be back. Boolig arrived back at midnight, and quite understandably told the strange 21-year-old who'd spent 12 hours in his garden pulling the leaves off his trees, that no, he would not come to Santa Monica and give a free performance. But he did agree that if Cage brought some of his own compositions, he'd give them a look over. Bullig started giving Cage some proper lessons in composition, although he stressed that he was a performer, not a composer. Around this time, Cage wrote his sonata for clarinet. Bullig suggested that Cage sent that to Henry Cowell,
Starting point is 00:17:31 the composer we heard about in the episode on Good Vibrations, who was friends with Lev Terman, and who created music by playing the strings inside a piano. Carol offered to take Cage on as an assistant, in return for which Carol would teach him for a semester, as would Arilf Weiss, a pupil of Schermberg's. But the goal, which Carol suggested, was always to have Cage study with Shermberg himself.
Starting point is 00:18:31 Schermberg at first refused, saying that Cage couldn't afford his price, but eventually took Cage on as a student, having been assured that he would devote his entire life to music, a promise Cage kept. Cage started writing pieces for percussion, something that had been very rare up to that point. Only a handful of composers,
Starting point is 00:18:51 most notably Agavarez, had written pieces for percussion alone, but Cage was. This is often portrayed as a break from the ideals of his teacher Schoenberg, but in fact there's a clear continuity there, once you see what Cage was taking from Schenberg. Schenberg's work is, in some senses, about equality, about all notes being equal,
Starting point is 00:20:03 or, to put it another way, it's about fairness, about erasing arbitrary distinctions. What Cage was doing was erasing the arbitrary distinction between the more and less prominent instruments. Why should there be pieces for solo violin or string quartet, but not for multiple percussion players? That said, Schernberg was not exactly the most encouraging of teachers. When Cage invited Schermberg to go to a concert of Cage's percussion work,
Starting point is 00:20:29 Schenberg told him he was busy that night. When Cage offered to arrange another concert for a date Schenberg wasn't busy, the reply came, No, I will not be free at any time. Despite this, Cage later said, Schermberg was a magnificent teacher who always gave the impression that he was putting us in touch with musical principles and said,
Starting point is 00:20:48 I literally worshipped him, a strong statement from someone who took religious matters as seriously as Cage. Cage was so devoted to Sherenberg's music that when a concert of music by Stravinsky was promoted as Music of the World's Greatest Living Composer, Cage stormed into the promoter's office angrily, confronting the promoter, and making it very clear that such things should not be said in the city where Shermberg,
Starting point is 00:21:11 Listernberg lived. Schernerberg clearly didn't think much of Cage's attempts at composition, thinking correctly that Cage had no ear for harmony, and his report at the aggressive and confrontational teaching style didn't sit well with Cage, though it seems very similar to a lot of the teaching techniques of the Zen masters who would later go on to respect. The two eventually parted ways, although Cage always spoke highly of Schenberg. Schenberg later gave Cage a compliment of sorts, when asked if any of his students had gone on to do anything interesting. At first he replied that none had, but then he mentioned Cage and said, Of course he's not a composer, but an inventor, of genius.
Starting point is 00:21:51 Cage was at this point very worried if there was any point to being a composer at all. He said later, I'd read Carol's new musical resources and the theory of rhythm. I'd also read Chavez's towards a new music. Both works gave me the feeling that everything that was possible in music had already happened, so I thought I could never compose socially important music, only if I could invent something new, then would I be useful to society, but that seemed unlikely then. Part of the solution came when he was asked to compose music for an abstract animation by the filmmaker Ask a Fisinger, and also to work as Fisinger's assistant when making the film. He was fascinated by the stop-motion process, and by the results of the film, which he described
Starting point is 00:23:14 as a beautiful film in which these squares, triangles and circles and other things moved and changed colour. But more than that, he was overwhelmed by a comment by Fysinger, who told him, Everything in the world has its own spirit, and this spirit becomes audible by setting it into vibration. Cage later said, That set me on fire. He started me on a path of exploration of the world around me, which has never stopped, of hitting and stretching and scraping and rubbing everything. His compositions for percussion had been about, if you like, giving the underdog a chance.
Starting point is 00:23:48 Percussion was always in the background. Why should it not be in the spotlight? Now he realised that there were other things getting excluded in conventional music, the sounds that we characterise as noise. Why should composers work to exclude those sounds for work to include other sounds? Surely that was, well, a little unfair?
Starting point is 00:24:08 Eventually this would lead to pieces like his 1952 piece water music, later expanded and retitled Waterwalk, which can be heard here in his 1959 appearance on the TV show, I've Got a Secret. It's a piece for, amongst other things, a flower pop full of flowers, a bathtub, a watering can,
Starting point is 00:24:28 a pipe, a duck call, a blender full of ice cubes, and five unplugged radios. I think it's interesting. If you are amused, you may laugh. If you like it, you may be, by the recordings. John Cage and Water Walk. As he was now avoiding pitch and harmony as organizing principles for his music,
Starting point is 00:25:30 he turned to time, but note, not to rhythm. He said, there's none of this boom, boom, boom business in my music, a measure is taken as a strict measure of time, not a one, two, three, four, which I filled with various sounds. He came up with a system he referred to as micro-macrocosmicosmic rhythmic, structure, what we would now call fractals, though that word hadn't yet been invented, where the structure of the whole piece was reflected in the smallest part of it. For a time, he started moving away from the term music, referring to refer to the art of noise, or to organise sound, though he
Starting point is 00:26:08 later received a telegram from Edgar Verres, one of his musical heroes, and one of the few other people writing works purely for percussion, asking him not to use that phrase, which Verres used for his own work. After meeting with Veres and his wife, he later became convinced that it was Verraz's wife who had initiated the telegram, as she explained to Cage's wife, we didn't want your husband's work confused with my husband's work, anywhere than you'd want any artist's work confused with that of a cartoonist. Well, there is a humour to Cage's work. I don't really hear much qualitative difference between a Cage piece like the one we just heard, and a Veres piece like ionisation, but it was in 1952, the year of water music, that John Cage made his two biggest
Starting point is 00:27:25 impacts on the cultural world, though the full force of those impacts wasn't felt for some years. To understand Cage's 1952 work, you first have to understand that he had become heavily influenced by Zen, which at that time was very little known in the Western world. Indeed, he had studied with Daisetsu Suzuki, who is credited with introducing Zen to. the West, and said later, I didn't study music with just anybody, I studied with Schoenberg. I didn't study Zen with just anybody,
Starting point is 00:27:56 I studied with Suzuki. I've always gone, insofar as I could, to the president of the company. Cage's whole worldview was profoundly affected by Zen, but he was also naturally sympathetic to it, and his work after learning about Zen is mostly a continuation of trends we can already see. In particular, he became convinced
Starting point is 00:28:16 that the point of music isn't to communicate anything between two people, rather its point is merely to be experienced. I'm far from an expert on Buddhism, but one way of thinking about its central lessons is that one should experience things as they are, experiencing the thing itself, rather than one's thoughts or preconceptions about it.
Starting point is 00:28:36 And so, at Black Mountain College, came theatre piece number one. In this piece, Cage had set the audience on all sides, so they'd be facing each other. He stood on a step ladder, as colleagues danced in and around the audience. Another colleague played the piano. Two more took turns to stand on another step ladder to recite poetry. Different films and slides were projected, seemingly at random, onto the walls. And the painter Robert Rauschenberg played Scratchy Edith Piafrey. records and a wind-up gramophone. The audience were included in the performance, and it was meant
Starting point is 00:29:44 to be experienced as a gestalt, as a whole, to be what we would now call an immersive experience. One of Cage's students around this time was the artist Alan Caprow, and he would be inspired by theatre piece number one to put on several similar events in the late 50s. Those events he called happenings, because the point of them was that you were meant to experience an event as it was happening, rather than bring preconceptions of form and structure to them. Those happenings were the inspiration for events like the 14-hour technical a dream, and the term happening became such an integral part of the counterculture that by 1967 there were comedy films being released about them,
Starting point is 00:30:26 including one just called The Happening, with a title track by the Supremes that made No. 1. Theatre piece No. 1 was retrospectively considered the first happening, and as such its influence is incalculable. But one part I didn't mention about theatre piece number one is that as well as Rauschenberg playing Edith Piaf's records, he also displayed some of his paintings. These paintings were totally white.
Starting point is 00:31:22 At a glance they looked like blank canvases, but as one inspected them more clearly, it became apparent that Rauschenberg had painted them with white paint, with visible brushstrokes. These paintings, along with a visit to an anechoic chamber in which Cage discovered that even in total silence one can still hear one's own blood and nervous system, so we'll never experience total silence,
Starting point is 00:31:44 but the final key to something Cage had been working towards. If music had minimised percussion and excluded noise, how much more had it excluded silence? As Cage said in 1958, curiously enough, the 12-tone system has no zero in it. And so came four minutes 33, the piece that we heard an excerpt of, near the start of this episode.
Starting point is 00:32:08 That piece was the something new he'd been looking for that could be useful to society. It took the sounds the audience could already hear and without changing them even slightly gave them a new context and made the audience hear them as they were. Simply by saying, this is music. It caused the ambient noise to be perceived as music.
Starting point is 00:32:27 This idea of recontextualizing existing material was one that had already been done in the art world. Marcel Duchamp, in 1917, had exhibited a urinal as a sculpture titled Fountain, but even Duchamp had talked about his work as everyday objects raised to the dignity of a work of art by the artist's act of choice. The artist was raising the object to art. What Cage was saying was, the object is already art.
Starting point is 00:32:54 This was all massively influential to a young painter who had seen Cage give lectures many times, and while at art school had with friends prepared a piano in the same way Cage did for his own experimental compositions, dampening the strings with different objects. Duchamp and Mauschenberg were both big influences on Andy Warhol, what he would say in the early 60s, John Cage is really so responsible for so much that's going on,
Starting point is 00:34:03 and would for the rest of his life cite Cage as one of the two or three prime influences of his career. Warhol is a difficult figure to discuss, because his work is very intellectual, but he was not very articulate. which is one reason I've led up to him by discussing Cage in such detail, because Cage was always eager to talk at great length about the theoretical basis of his work, while Warhol would say very few words about anything at all.
Starting point is 00:34:30 Probably the person who knew him best was his business partner and collaborator Paul Morrissey, and Morrissey's descriptions of Warhol have shaped my own view of his life, but it's very worth noting that Morrissey is an extremely right-wing moralist who wishes to see a Catholic theocracy imposed to do our way with the scourges of sexual immorality, drug use, hedonism and liberalism. So his view of Warhol, a queer drug-using progressive
Starting point is 00:34:54 whose worldview seems to have been totally opposed to Morrissey's in every way, might be a little distorted. Warhol came from an impoverished background, and so, as many people who grew up poor do, he was, throughout his life, very eager to make money. He studied art at university, and got decent but not exceptional grades. He was a competent draftsman, but not a great one,
Starting point is 00:35:17 and most importantly, as far as success in the art world goes, he didn't have what is known as his own line. With most successful artists, you can look at a handful of lines they've drawn and see something of their own personality in it. You couldn't with Warhol. His drawings looked like mediocre imitations of other people's work, perfectly competent, but nothing that stood out. So Warhol came up with a technique to make.
Starting point is 00:35:41 make his drawings stand out. Blotting. He would do a normal drawing, then go over it with a lot of wet ink. He'd lower a piece of paper onto the wet drawing, and the new paper would soak up the ink, and that second piece of paper would become the finished work. The lines would be fractured and smeared, broken in places where the ink didn't get picked up, and thick in others where it had pooled. With this mechanical process, Warhol had managed to create an individual style, and he became an extremely successful commercial artist. In the early 1950s, photography was still seen as a somewhat low-class way of advertising things. If you wanted to sell to a rich audience, you needed to use drawings or paintings.
Starting point is 00:36:24 By 1955, Warhol was making about $12,000 a year, somewhere close to $130,000 a year in today's money, drawing shoes for advertisements. He also had a sideline in doing record covers for people like Count Basie. For most of the 1950s, he also tried to put on shows of his more serious artistic work, often with homoerotic themes, but to little success. The dominant art style of the time was the abstract expressionism of people like Jackson Pollock, whose art was visceral, emotional, and macho. The term action paintings, which was coined for the work of people like Pollock,
Starting point is 00:37:36 sums it up. This was manly art for manly men having manly emotions. and expressing them loudly. It was very male and very straight, and even the gay artists who were prominent at the time tended to be very conformist and looked down on anything they considered flamboyant or effeminate. Warhol was a rather effeminate, very reserved man,
Starting point is 00:37:59 who strongly disliked showing his emotions and whose tastes ran firmly to the camp. Camp as an aesthetic of finding joy in the flamboyant or trashy, as opposed to merely a, a descriptive term for men who behaved in a way considered effeminate, was only just starting to be codified at this time. It wouldn't really become a fully formed, recognisable thing until Susan Sontag's essay Notes on Camp in 1964.
Starting point is 00:38:25 But of course, just because something hasn't been recognised doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And Warhol's aesthetic was always very camp. And in the 1950s in the US, that was frowned upon, even in gay culture, where the mainstream opinion was that the best way to acceptance, was through assimilation. Abstract expressionism was all about expressing the self,
Starting point is 00:38:46 and that was something Warhol never wanted to do. In fact, he made some pronouncements at times, which suggested he didn't think of himself as having a self in the conventional sense. The combination of not wanting to express himself and of wanting to work more efficiently as a commercial artist led to some interesting results. For example, he was commissioned in 1957 to do a cover of reference.
Starting point is 00:39:10 an album by Moondog, the blind street musician whose name Alan Freed had once stolen. For that cover, Warhol got his mother, Julia Warholer, to just write out the liner notes for the album in her rather ornamental cursive script, and that became the front cover, leading to an award for graphic design going that year to Andy Warhol's mother. Incidentally, my copy of the current CD issue of that album, complete with Julia Warholer's cover, is put out by Pickwick Record. but towards the end of the 50s the work for commercial artists started to dry up. If you wanted to advertise
Starting point is 00:40:15 shoes now, you just took a photo of the shoes rather than get Andy Warhol to draw a picture of them. The money started to disappear and Warhol started to panic. If there was no room for him in graphic design anymore, he had to make his living in the fine art, which he'd been totally unsuccessful in.
Starting point is 00:40:34 But luckily for Warhol, there was a new movement that was starting to form, Pop Art. Pop art started in England, and had originally been intended, at least in part, as a critique of American consumerist capitalism. Pieces like, Just What Is It That Makes Today's Home So Different, so appealing, by Richard Hamilton, who went on to design the Beatles' White album cover, a collage as a found images, almost all from American sources, recontextualized and juxtaposed in different ways, so a bodybuilder poses in a room that's taken from an advert in Ladies' Home Journal,
Starting point is 00:41:10 while on the wall, instead of a painting, hangs a blow-up cover of a Jack Kirby romance comic. Pop art changed slightly when it got taken up in America, and there it became something rather different, something closer to Duchamp, taking those found images and displaying them as art with no juxtaposition. Where Richard Hamilton created collage art
Starting point is 00:41:31 which showed a comic cover by Jack Kirby as a painting in the background, Roy Lichtenstein would take a panel of comic art by Kirby, or Russ Heath or Irv Novick, or a dozen other comic artists, and redraw it at the size of a normal painting. So Warhol took Cage's idea that the object is already art, and brought that into painting, starting by doing paintings of Campbell's soup cans, in which he tried as far as possible to make the cans look exactly like actual soup cans. The paintings were controversial, inciting fury and some and laughter in others, and causing almost everyone to question whether they were
Starting point is 00:42:07 art. Warhol would embrace an aesthetic in which things considered unimportant or trash or pop culture detritus were the greatest art of all. For example, pretty much every profile of him written in the mid-60s talks about him obsessively playing Sally Go Around the Roses, a girl group single by the one-hit wonders, the J-Nets. After his paintings of Campbell's Soup cans, and some rather controversial but less commercially successful paintings of photographs of horrors and catastrophes taken from newspapers, Warhol abandoned painting in the conventional sense altogether, instead creating brightly coloured screen prints, a form of stenciling, based on photographs of celebrities like Elvis Presley, Elizabeth Taylor, and, most famously, Marilyn Monroe. That way he could produce images
Starting point is 00:43:28 which could be mass-produced without his active involvement, and which supposedly had none of his personality in them, though of course his personality pervades the work anyway. He put on exhibitions of wooden boxes, silk screen printed, to look exactly like shipping cartons of brillo pads. Images we see everywhere, in newspapers, in supermarkets, were art, and Warhol even briefly formed a band. The Druds were a garage band formed a player to show at the Washington Gallery of Modern Art,
Starting point is 00:43:58 the opening night of an exhibition that featured a silk screen by Warhol of 210 identical bottles of Coca-Cola, as well as paintings by Rauschenberg and others. That opening night featured a happening by Klaise Oldenberg and a performance by Cage. Cage gave a live lecture while three recordings of his own voice also played. The druds were also meant to perform, but they fell apart after only a few rehearsals.
Starting point is 00:44:23 Some recordings apparently exist, but they don't seem to circulate, but they'd be fascinating to hear, as almost the entire band were non-musician artists like Warhol, Jasper Johns, and the sculptor Walter de Maria. Warhol said of the group, It didn't go too well,
Starting point is 00:44:40 but if we had just stayed on it, it would have been great. On the other hand, the one actual musician in the group said, It was kind of ridiculous, so I quit after the second rehearsal. That musician was Lamont Young. That's an excerpt from what is generally considered Young's masterwork, the well-tuned piano. It's six and a half hours long. If Warhol is a difficult figure to write about,
Starting point is 00:45:40 Jung is almost impossible. He's a musician with a career stretching 60 years, who is arguably the most influential musician from the classical tradition in that time period. He's generally considered the father of minimalism, and he's also been called by Brian Eno, the daddy of us all. Without young, there is no Velvet Underground,
Starting point is 00:46:00 no David Bowie, no Eno, no New York punk scene, no Yoko Ono, anywhere that the fine arts or conceptual art have intersected with popular music in the last 50 or more years has been influenced in one way or another by Young's work. But he only rarely
Starting point is 00:46:18 publishes his scores. He very, very rarely allows recordings of his work to be released. There are four recordings on his band camp plus a handful of recordings of his older published pieces and very little else. He doesn't allow his music to be performed live
Starting point is 00:46:34 without his supervision. There are bootleg recordings of his music, but even those are not easily obtained Young is vigorous in enforcing his copyright and issues takedown notices against anywhere that hosts them. So other than that handful of legitimately available recordings, plus a recording by Young's theatre of Eternal Music, the legality of which is still disputed, and an off-air recording of a 1971 radio programme I've managed to track down.
Starting point is 00:47:02 The only way to experience Young's music, unless you're willing to travel to one of his rare live performances or installations, is second-hand by reading about it. Except that the one book that deals solely with Jung and his music is not only a dense and difficult book to read, it's also one that Jung vehemently disagreed with and considered extremely inaccurate, to the point he refused to allow permissions to quote his work in the book.
Starting point is 00:47:27 Jung did apparently prepare a list of corrections for the book, but he wouldn't tell the author what they were without payment. So please assume that anything I say about Jung is wrong, but also accept that the short section of this episode about Young has required more work to try to get it right than pretty much anything else this year. Jung's musical career actually started out in a relatively straightforward manner. He didn't grow up in the most loving of Holmes.
Starting point is 00:47:54 He's talked about his father beating him as a child because he had been told that Young Lamont was clever, but his father did buy him a saxophone and teach him the rudiments of the instrument, and as a child he was most influenced by the music of the big band's saxophone play Jimmy Dorsey. The family, the dreamer
Starting point is 00:48:22 The family, who were Mormon farmers, relocated several times in Young's childhood, from Idaho, first to California and then to Utah. But everywhere they went, Lamont seemed to find musical inspiration, whether from an uncle who had been part of the Kansas City jazz scene, a classmate who was a musical prodigy who had played with Perez Prado in his early teens, or a teacher who took the class to see a performance of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra. After leaving high school, Young went to Los Angeles City College to study music under Leonard Stein,
Starting point is 00:49:49 who had been Shermberg's assistant when Shermberg had taught at UCLA, and there he became part of the thriving jazz scene based around Central Avenue, studying and performing with musicians like Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry and Eric Dolfie. Young once beat Dolfie in an audition for a place in the City College dance band, and the two would apparently substitute for each other on their regular gigs when one couldn't make it. During this time, Young's musical tastes became much more adventurous. He was a particular fan of the work of John Colt Rain, and also got inspired by City of Glass,
Starting point is 00:50:21 an album by Stan Kenton that attempted to combine jazz and modern classical musical music. music. His other musical discovery in the mid-50s was one we've talked about on several previous occasions, the album Music of India, Morning and Evening Raghas, by Alyac Bar Khan. Young's music at this point was becoming increasingly modal and equally influenced by the blues and Indian music, but he was also becoming interested in serialism. Serialism is an extension and generalisation of 12-term music, inspired by mathematical set theory. In serialism, you choose a set of musical elements. In 12-tone music, that's the 12-notes in the 12-tone scale,
Starting point is 00:52:06 but it can also be a set of tonal relations, a chord, or any other set of elements. You then define all the possible ways you can permute those elements, a defined set of operations you can perform on them, so you could play a scale forwards, play it backwards, play all the notes in the scale simultaneously, and so on. You then go through all the possible permutations exactly once. And that's your piece of music. Young was particularly influenced by the works of Anton Webern, one of the earliest serialists.
Starting point is 00:52:36 In that piece we just heard, Weberin's cantata number one, was the subject of some of the earliest theoretical discussion of serialism, and in particular led to some discussion of the next step on from serialism. If serialism was all about going through every single permutation of a set, what if you didn't permute every element? There was a lot of discussion in the late 50s in music theoretical circles about the idea of invariants. Normally in music, the interesting thing is what gets changed.
Starting point is 00:53:51 To use a very simple example, you might change a melody from a major key to a minor one to make it sound sadder. What theorists at this point were starting to discuss is what happens if you leave something the same, but change the surrounding context. So the thing you don't vary sounds different because of the changed context.
Starting point is 00:54:10 And going further, what if you don't change the context at all, and merely imply a changed context. These ideas were some of those which inspired Young's first major work, his trio for strings from 1958, a complex palindromic serial piece, which is now credited as the first work of minimalism, because the notes in it changed so infrequently. Though I should point out that Young never considers his work truly finished,
Starting point is 00:55:13 and constantly rewrites them, and what we just heard is an excerpt from the only recording of the trio ever effigues. released, which is of the 2015 version, so I can't state for certain how close what we just heard is to the piece he wrote in 1958, except that it sounds very like the written descriptions of it I've read. After writing the trio for strings, Jung moved to Germany to study with the modernist composer Karl Heinz Stockhausen. While studying with Stockhausen, he became interested in the work of John Cage, and started up a correspondence with Cage. On his return to New York, he studied with Cage and started writing pieces inspired by Cage,
Starting point is 00:55:53 of which the most musical is probably Composition 1960 No. 7. The score for that piece is a stave on which is drawn a treble clef, the notes B and F sharp, and the words, to be held for a long time. Other of his compositions from 1960, which are among the few of his compositions which have been published, include Composition 1960 No. 10 to Bob Morris, the score for which is just the instruction, draw a straight line and follow it,
Starting point is 00:56:43 and piano piece for David Tudor number one. The score for which reads, Bring a bale of hay and a bucket of water onto the stage for the piano to eat and drink. The performer may then feed the piano or leave it to eat by itself. If the former, the piece is over after the piano has been fed. If the latter, it is over after the piano eats or decides not to.
Starting point is 00:57:05 Most of those compositions were performed as part of a loose New York art collective called Fluxus, all of whom were influenced by Cage and the Dardists. This collective, led by George Matunas, sometimes involved Cage himself, but also involved people like Henry Flint, the inventor of conceptual art, who later became a campaigner against art itself,
Starting point is 00:57:27 and who also, much to Young's bemusement's abandoned abstract music in the mid-60s to form a garage band with Malta de Maria, who had played drums with the druds. Much of Young's work was performed at Fluxus Concerts, given in a New York loft belonging to another member of the collective, Yoko Ono, who co-curated the concerts with Young. One of Ono's mid-60s pieces, her four pieces for orchestra, is dedicated to Young, and consists of such instructions as,
Starting point is 00:58:26 Count all the stars of that night by heart, the piece ends when all the orchestra members finish counting the stars, or when it dawns. This can be done with windows instead of stars. While these conceptual ideas remained a huge part of Young's thinking, he soon became interested in two other ideas. The first was the idea of just intonation, tuning instruments and voices to perfect harmonics,
Starting point is 00:58:50 rather than using the subtly off-tuning that is used in Western music. I'm sure I've explained this before in a previous episode, but to put it simply, when you're tuning an instrument with fixed pictures like a piano, you have a choice. You can either tune it so that the notes in one key are perfectly in tune with each other, but then when you change key things go very out of tune, or you can choose to make everything a tiny bit, almost unnoticeably out of tune, but equally so.
Starting point is 00:59:17 For the last several hundred years, musicians as a community have chosen the latter course, which was, among other things, promoted by Barg's well-tempered clavier, a collection of compositions which shows how the different keys work together. Young, by contrast, has his own esoteric tuning system, which he uses in his own work, the well-tuned piano.
Starting point is 01:00:42 The other idea that Jung took on was from Indian music, the idea of the drone. One of the four recordings of Jung's music that is available from his band camp, a 1982 recording titled The Tamboras of Pandit Pranath, consists of one hour,
Starting point is 01:00:58 13 minutes and 58 seconds of this. Yes, I have listened to the whole piece. No, nothing else happens. The minimalist composer Terry Riley describes the recording as a singularly rare contribution that far outshines any other attempts to capture this instrument in recorded media. In 1962, Young started writing pieces based on what he called the dream chord, a chord consisting of a root, fourth, sharpened fourth, and fifth.
Starting point is 01:01:45 That chord had already appeared in his trio for strings, but now it would become the focus of much of his work, in pieces like his 1962 piece, the second dream of the high-tension line stepped down, transformer, heard here in a 1982 revision. That was part of a series of works titled The Four Dreams of China, and Young began to plan an installation work titled Dreamhouse, which would eventually be created, and which currently exists in Tribeca, New York, where it's been in continuous performance for 30 years, and which consists of 32 different
Starting point is 01:03:02 pure sine wave tones all played continuously, plus purple lighting by Young's wife Marion Zazila. But as an initial step towards creating this, Jung formed a collective called Theatre of Eternal Music, which some of the members, though never Young himself, always claim also went by the alternative name, the Dream Syndicate. According to John Cale, a member of the group, that name came about because the group tuned their instruments
Starting point is 01:03:30 to the 60 Hertz hum of the fridge in Young's apartment, which Cale called the Key of Western Civilisation. According to Kale, that meant that the fundamental of the chords they played was 10 hertz, the frequency of alpha waves when dreaming, hence the name. The group initially consisted of Young, Zazila, the photographer Billy Name, and percussionist Angus MacLease. But by this recording in 1964, the lineup was Young, Zazila, MacLease, Tony Conrad and John Kale. That recording, like any others that have leaked by the 19. of the Theatre of Eternal Music or Dream Syndicate,
Starting point is 01:04:44 is of disputed legality, because Jung and Zazila claim to this day that what the group performed were Lamont Young's compositions, while the other two surviving members, Kale and Conrad, claimed that their performances were improvisational collaborations and should be equally credited to all the members, and so there have been lawsuits and countersuits
Starting point is 01:05:05 any time anyone has released the recordings. John Cale, the youngest member of the group, was also the only one who wasn't American. He'd been born in Wales in 1942 and had had the kind of childhood that, in retrospect, seems guaranteed to lead to eccentricity. He was the product of a mixed-language marriage. His father, William, was an English speaker, while his mother, Margaret, spoke Welsh. But the couple had moved in on their marriage with Margaret's mother, who insisted that only Welsh could be.
Starting point is 01:05:38 be spoken in her house. William didn't speak Welsh, and while he eventually picked up the basics from spending all his life surrounded by Welsh speakers, he refused on principle to capitulate to his mother-in-law, and so remained silent in the house. John, meanwhile, grew up a monolingual Welsh speaker, and didn't start to learn English until he went to school when he was seven, and so couldn't speak to his father until then, even though they lived together. Young John was extremely unwell for most of his childhood. Both physically, he had bronchial problems for which he had to take a cough mixture that was allowed the opium to help him sleep at night, and mentally. He was hospitalized when he was 16 with what was at first thought to be meningitis, but turned out to be a psychosomatic
Starting point is 01:06:22 condition, the result of what he has described as a nervous breakdown. That breakdown is probably connected to the fact that during his teenage years, he was sexually assaulted by two adults in positions of authority, a vicar and a music teacher, and felt unable to talk to anyone about this. He was, though, a child prodigy, and was playing viola with the National Youth Orchestra of Wales from the age of 13, and listening to music by Schernberg, Webern, and Stravinsky. He was so talented a multi-instrumentalist that at school he was the only person other than one of the music teachers and the headmaster, who was allowed to use the piano, which led to a prank on his very last day at school. The headmaster Wood, on the last day, hit a low G on the piano to cue the assembly to
Starting point is 01:07:09 stand up, and Cale had placed a comb on the string, muting it and stopping the note from sounding, in much the same way that his near namesake John Cage was preparing pianos for his own compositions in the USA. Kale went on to Goldsmith's College to study music and composition under Humphrey Searle, one of Britain's greatest proponents of serialism who had himself studied under Weyburn. Kale's main instrument was the viola, but he insisted on also playing pieces written for the violin, because they required more technical skill. For his final exam, he chose to play Hindemith's notoriously difficult viola sonata. While at Goldsmiths, Kale became friendly with Cornelius Kajou, a composer in Chalice who had studied with Stockhausen, and at the time was a great
Starting point is 01:08:24 admirer of an advocate for the works of Cage and Young, though by the mid-70s, Kardue rejected their work as counter-revolutionary bourgeois imperialism. Through Cardew, Kale started to correspond with Cage, and with George Matunus and other members of Fluxus. In July in 1963, just after he'd finished his studies at Goldsmiths, Kale presented a festival there consisting of an afternoon and an evening show. These shows included the first British performances of several works, including Cardew's Autumn 60 for Orchestra, a piece in which the musicians were given blank stage. on which to write whatever part they wanted to play, but a separate set of instructions
Starting point is 01:09:05 and how to play the parts they'd written. Another piece Cale presented in its British premiere at that show was Caj's Concerto for Piano and Orchestra. In the evening show, they performed two pieces for string quartet by George Brecht, in which the musicians polished their instruments with dusters, making scraping sounds as they clean them, and two new pieces by Cale, one of which involved a plant being put on the stage,
Starting point is 01:10:01 and then the performer Robin Page screaming from the balcony at the plant that it would die, then running down through the audience and onto the stage, screaming abuse and threats at the plant. The final piece in the show was a performance by Kale,
Starting point is 01:10:16 the first one in Britain, of Lamont Young's ex for Henry Flint. For this piece, Cale put his hands together and then smashed both his arms onto the keyboard as hard as he could, over and over. After five minutes,
Starting point is 01:10:29 some of the audience stormed the stage and tried to drag the piano away from him. Kale followed the piano on his knees, continuing to bang the keys, and eventually the audience gave up in defeat, and Kael the performer won. After this, Kale moved to the USA, to further study composition,
Starting point is 01:10:45 this time with Janis Zanakis, the modernist composer who had also taught Mickey Baker orchestration after Baker left Mickey and Sylvia, and who composed such works as Orient Occident. Kale had been recommended to Zanakis as a student, by Aaron Copeland, who thought the young man was probably a genius. But Kale's musical ambitions were rather too great for Tanglewood, Massachusetts.
Starting point is 01:11:38 He discovered that the Institute had 88 pianos, the same number as there are keys on a piano keyboard, and thought it would be great if for a piece, he could take all 88 pianos, put them all on different boats, sail the boats out onto a lake, and have 88 different musicians each play one note on each piano, while the boat sank, with the pianos on board.
Starting point is 01:12:00 For some reason, Kale wasn't allowed to perform this composition and instead had to make do with one where he pulled an axe out of a single piano and slammed it down on a table. Hardly the same, I'm sure you'll agree. From Tanglewood, Kale moved on to New York, where he soon became part of the artistic circles surrounding John Cage and Lamont Young. It was at this time that he joined Young's Theatre of Eternal Music and also took part in a performance with Cage
Starting point is 01:12:25 to get Kail his first television exposure. That's Kale playing through. vexations, a piece by Eric Sarty that wasn't published until after Sarty's death, and it remained in obscurity until Cage popularised, if that's the word, the piece. The piece, which Cage had found while studying Sarty's notes, seems to be written as an exercise, and has the inscription, in French. In order to play the motif 840 times in succession, it would be advisable to prepare oneself beforehand, and in the deepest silence, by serious immobilities.
Starting point is 01:14:23 Cage interpreted that, possibly correctly, as an instruction that the piece should be played 840 times straight through, and so he put together a performance of the piece, the first one ever, by a group he called the Pocket Theatre Piano Relay Team, which included Cage himself, Kale, Joshua Rifkin, and several other notable musical figures, who took it in turns playing the piece. For that performance, which ended up lasting 18 hours, there was an entry fee of $5, and there was a time clock in the lobby. Audience members punched in and punched out
Starting point is 01:14:57 and got a refund of five cents for every 20 minutes they'd spent listening to the music. Supposedly, at the end, one audience member yelled, Encore! A week later, Kale appeared on I've Got a Secret, a popular game show in which celebrities tried to guess people's secrets and which is where that performance of Cage's Waterwalk we heard earlier comes from. Because I read recently in the first of,
Starting point is 01:15:22 the paper that there was a very short composition that was played 820 times or something. And were you two involved in that playing of that piece of music? With the piano. Yes? I think that is close enough. Will will give them the entire $80, and I will tell you a panel that this is John Kale, a composer musician who last week performed in a concert to end all concerts. What was really unusual about this particular concert? Well, the performance took 18 hours. 18 hours and 40 minutes to be exact. Now given this information, can either of you, any of you guess what Mr. Schenzor's secret then is? Well, there were ten pianists, weren't there, who did it in relays? Yes. And he must have, I think, a pianist played, and then he sat back to time the next fellow. So he must have been there
Starting point is 01:16:10 the whole 18 hours. He was the only one who lasted in the audience for the full 18. For a while, Kale lived with a friend of Lamont Young's, Terry Jennings, before. Before moving into a flat with Tony Conrad, one of the other members of the Theatre of Eternal Music, Angus MacLeese lived in another flat in the same building. As there was not much money to be made in avant-garde music, Kale also worked in a bookshop, a job cage had found him, and had a sideline in dealing drugs. But rents were so cheap at this time that Kale and Conrad only had to work part-time and could spend much of their time working on the music they were making with Young.
Starting point is 01:16:48 Both were string players Conrad violin, Kale Viola and they soon modified their instruments. Conrad merely attached pickups to his so it could be amplified, but Kale went much further. He filed down the viola's bridge so he could play three strings at once
Starting point is 01:17:04 and he replaced the normal viola strings with heavier, thicker, guitar and mandolin strings. This created a sound so loud that it sounded like a distorted electric guitar, though in late 1963 and early 1964 there were very few people who even knew what a distorted guitar sounded like. Kale and Conrad were also starting to become interested in rock and roll music, to which neither of them had previously paid much attention,
Starting point is 01:17:30 because John Cage's music had taught them to listen for music in sounds they previously dismissed. In particular, Kale became fascinated with the harmonies of the Everly brothers, hearing in them the same just intonation that Young advocated for. and it was with this newfound interest in rock and roll that Kale and Conrad suddenly found themselves members of a manufactured pop band. The two men had been invited to a party on the Lower East Side and there they'd been introduced to Terry Phillips of Pickwick Records. Phillips had seen their long hair and asked if they were musicians.
Starting point is 01:18:36 So they'd answered yes. He asked if they were in a band and they said yes. He asked if that band had a drummer and again they said yes. By this point they realised that he had assumed they were rock guitarists, rather than experimental avant-garde string players, but they decided to play along and see where this was going. Phillips told them that if they brought along their drummer to Pickwick's studios the next day, he had a job for them.
Starting point is 01:19:02 The two of them went along with Walter de Maria, who did play the drums a little in between his conceptual artwork, and there they were played a record. It was explained to them that Pickwick made knock-off records, sound the likes of big hits and their own records in the style of those hits, all played by a bunch of session musicians and put out under different band names. This one, by The Primitives, they thought had a shot at being an actual hit, even though it was a dance craze song about a dance where one partner lays on the floor
Starting point is 01:20:04 and the other stamps on their head. But if it was going to be a hit, they needed an actual band to go out and perform it, backing the singer. How would Kale, Conrad and DeMarie like to be three-quarters of the primitives? It sounded fun. But of course they weren't actually guitarists. But as it turned out, that wasn't going to be a problem.
Starting point is 01:20:24 They were told that the guitars on the track had all been tuned to one note, not even to an open chord, like we talked about Steve Cropper doing last episode, but all the strings to one note. Kale and Conrad were astonished. That was exactly the kind of thing they'd been doing in their drone experiments with Lamont-Hu.
Starting point is 01:20:41 Who was this person who was independently inventing the most advanced ideas in experimental music, but applying them to pop songs? And that was how they met Lou Reed. Where Kale and Conrad were avant-gardists who had only just started paying attention to rock and roll music. Rock and roll was in Lou Reed's blood, but there were a few striking similarities between him and Kale, even though at a glance their backgrounds could not have seemed more different. Reed had been brought up in a comfortably middle-class home in Long Island, but despised the suburban conformity that surrounded him from a very early age, and by his teens was starting to rebel against it very strongly. According to one classmate, Lou was always more advanced than the rest of us.
Starting point is 01:21:50 The drinking age was 18 back then, so we all started drinking at around 16. We were drinking quarts of beer, but Lou was smoking joints. He didn't do that in front of many people, but I knew he was doing it. While we were looking at girls in Playboy, Lou was reading Story of O. He was reading the Marquis de Sard, stuff that I wouldn't have even thought about or known how to find. But one way in which Reed was a typical teenager of the period
Starting point is 01:22:16 was his love for rock and roll, especially Dewwop. He'd got himself a guitar, but only had one lesson. According to the story he would tell on numerous occasions, he turned up with a copy of blue suede shoes and told the teacher he only wanted to know how to play the chords for that, and he'd work out the rest himself. Reed and two school friends, Alan Walters and Phil Harris, put together a doo-wop trio they called The Shades,
Starting point is 01:22:43 because they wore sunglasses, and a neighbour introduced them to Bob Shad, who had been an A&R man for Mercury Records and was starting his own new label. He renamed them The Jades, and took them into the studio with some of the best New York session players, and at 14 years old, Lou Reed was writing songs and singing them,
Starting point is 01:23:03 backed by Mickey Baker and King Curtis. Sadly, the Jade's single was a flop. The closest it came to success was being played on Murray the Kay's radio show, but on a day when Murray the Kay was off ill and someone else was filling in for him, much to Reed's disappointment. Phil Harris, the lead singer of the group,
Starting point is 01:23:56 got to record some solo sessions after that, but the Jade split up and it would be several years before Reed, made any more records. Partly, this was because of Reed's health, and here's where things get disputed and rather messy. What we know is that in his late teens, just after he'd gone off to New York University, Reed was put through a course of electroconvulsive therapy, and that for the rest of his
Starting point is 01:24:20 life he resented his parents for putting him through that. According to Reed himself, the primary illness for which he was being treated was his sexual attraction to other men, and he was forced to undergo it by his dominating abusive father. According to Reed's younger sister, who is now herself a mental health professional, the shock treatment was not for his sexuality, and their father was a kind, liberal man with enlightened attitudes about sexuality for the time period. According to her, the treatment was for anxiety and depression, which he had been suffering from for several years. Whatever the truth, Reed's memory suffered as a result of the treatment, which was
Starting point is 01:24:59 much, much stronger than the similar treatments used today. And whatever it was intended to treat, it did the opposite. Reed's personality became much bleaker and more cynical, his depressive phasasas got worse, and he started registering copyrights on songs with titles like, You'll Never Ever Love Me, and Kill Your Sons. After the treatments, he didn't go back to NYU, but instead started to study at Syracuse,
Starting point is 01:25:25 where among other things, he had his own college radio show, excursions on a wobbly rail, named after a jazz piece by Cecil Taylor who used as the theme tune. The show was ostensibly a jazz show, but it was actually just based around Reid's personal tastes. So it combined the free jazz of people like Ornette Coleman with soul and R&B records by groups like the Marvelettes
Starting point is 01:26:21 and Do What Records by Dion, his favourite singer at this point. Reed later described his musical influences by saying, I was a very big fan of Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, Archie Shep, then James Brown, the Do-Wop groups, and Rockabilly, put it all together and you end up with me. Reed was still trying to make it as a rock and roller. He formed a band at University, L.A. and the Eldoradoes, who played various college and fraternity parties, and he also went back to Bob Shad to record a couple more tracks, clearly showing the influence of Dion, though those wouldn't get released for decades. But at the same time he was trying to become a writer,
Starting point is 01:27:33 and one influenced by serious writers like William Burroughs. He was studying under the acclaimed poet Delmore Schwartz, who thought Reed had great potential as a writer, and the two became very close. Reed took Schwartz's teachings about writing and about integrity, very seriously, but also found himself having to hide many of his own ambitions and huge chunks of his own life,
Starting point is 01:27:57 because Schwartz had a deep loathing for rock and roll music and found it contemptible, and was also virulently homophobic. Reid, who was having affairs with both men and women, and was playing rock and roll music, found himself feeling split in two. He was also by this point a serious user of heroin, and it was his experience as banging and using the drug that gave him the ideas for some of what would become his best known songs.
Starting point is 01:28:23 At this point, Reed was still absorbing all the popular music of the time. He would later emphasise the influence of brill-building songwriters like Goughan and King and Baccarac and David, of Steve Cropper and the other writers at Stax and of Brian Wilson's writing for the Beach Boys and one can see all those absolutely in his later work. But one huge influence he always pretended had never influenced him at all was Bob Dylan
Starting point is 01:28:47 and around this time Reed was slavishly imitating him. And as Dylan was broadening the definitions of what could count as a rock and roll lyric, Reed saw ways to push it further. He said later, I thought, look, all these writers are writing about only a very small part of the human experience, whereas a record could be like a novel. You could write about this. It was so obvious it's amazing everybody wasn't doing it. Let's take crime and punishments and
Starting point is 01:29:42 turn it into a rock and roll song. But if you're going to talk about the grades, there is no one greater than Raymond Chandler. I mean, after reading Raymond Chandler and going on to someone else, it's like eating caviar and then turning to some real inferior dish. Take the sensibility of Raymond Chandler or Hubert Shelby or Delmore Schwartz or Po and put it to rock music. So Reid started to write songs about the kind of dark, real-life topic a Chandler might write about, like going to buy heroin. But these Chandler-esque songs were not going to get recorded any time soon. Indeed, that recording we just heard is from May 1965.
Starting point is 01:30:55 Roughly two years after Reid wrote Waiting for the Man. Reed's move into the rock and roll business was going to be with lyrics that were a little less challenging. Don Shupak. manager of L.A. and the Eldoradoes, had gone to work for Pickwick records after leaving university, and Shupac got read a job as a staff songwriter, performer and producer. For $25 a week, he and three other staffers, Terry Phillips, Jerry Vance, and Jimmy Sims, would write and record whatever Pickwick needed. Often Pickwick would have managed to license one or two early tracks by someone who'd just had a big hit, and then they'd need to
Starting point is 01:32:07 fallout a compilation with recordings by other supposed bands in the same style. As Reid told it, there were four of us literally locked in a room writing songs. We just churned out songs, that's all. They would say, write ten California songs, ten Detroit songs, then we go down into the studio for an hour or two and cut three or four albums really quickly, which came in handy later because I knew my way around a studio. Not well enough, but I could work really fast. While I was doing that. I was doing my own stuff and trying to get by, but the material I was doing, people wouldn't go near me with it at the time. I mean, we wrote, Johnny Can't Surf no more, and Let the Wedding Wells Ring, and Hot Rod song. I didn't see it as schizophrenic at all.
Starting point is 01:32:51 I just had a job as a songwriter, I mean a real hack job. They'd come in and give me a subject, and we'd write. Reed and his collaborators, and a handful of session singers and musicians, would sometimes be the beach nuts. Sometimes the High Lives, sometimes the Jay Brothers, and, fatefully, they'd become the Primitives. Reed, Kale, Conrad and DeMarie had a very brief career playing as the Primitives.
Starting point is 01:35:22 But while they played in front of the normal audiences of screaming girls, the record didn't do anything on the chart, and the group such as it was soon split up. Kale also developed a dislike of DeMarie's style of drumming, which was very influenced by jazz. If he was going to do any more rock and roll, he wasn't going to do it with someone who played so much on the ride symbol. But as well as Cale and Comrade continuing to perform together with Young,
Starting point is 01:35:47 Cale and Reed continued to hang out together, and even started writing songs together. Their first collaboration, written with Reed's normal partners, Phillips and Vance, was this, released as a B-side by the all-night workers, some friends of Reed's. Reed kept trying to get Cale to listen to the other songs he was writing. the ones that he'd played for Pickwick but they'd turn down. But at first, Kale was totally uninterested.
Starting point is 01:36:45 Reed was playing them on an acoustic guitar in a Bob Dylan style, and Kale despised the folk music scene and everything about it. He refused to listen. But eventually Reed wore him down. Kale said later, He kept pushing them on me, and finally I saw they weren't the kind of words you'd get Joan Baez singing. They were very different.
Starting point is 01:37:07 He was writing about things other people weren't. These lyrics were very literate, very well expressed, they were tough. He later explained, I recognized the tremendous literary quality about his songs which fascinated me. He had a very careful ear. He was very cautious with his words. I had no real knowledge of rock music at that time, so I focused on the literary aspect more.
Starting point is 01:37:29 Heroin were words. Music and lyrics, Lou Wurates. I'm good. and Reid also introduced Kale to the life he was writing about, as Kale put it. Before I met Lou, I had snorted, smoked and swallowed the best drugs in New York, courtesy of Lamont, but I had never injected anything. We smoked pot, took acid and other pills, mostly downs or benzodrine.
Starting point is 01:38:30 Now, diamond nickel bags of heroin were added to the menu. Reed moved in with Kale after Conrad moved out of the flat they shared, and they started jamming with the Eternal Theatre's percussion. Angus MacLeese, who lived in the same building. By this point, Reid was no longer working for Pickwick. He was determined to make the music he wanted to make, and the two of them scraped together money by giving blood, and by having their photos taken to be used in fake tabloid newspaper articles, where they were accused of being child molesters and serial killers. Read also, around this time, had a sideline in selling powdered sugar to gullible people, and telling them it was heroin,
Starting point is 01:39:09 then hanging around with them pretending to be stoned, as he put it, watching carefully to make sure they didn't OD on sweets. The fourth part of their new group, which they called the Warlocks, came when Reid happened to bump into an old friend, Sterling Morrison, on the subway. Morrison was someone he had known at Syracuse, though Morrison hadn't been a student there, but they'd been introduced by a mutual friend who was, Jim Tucker, and had bonded over a shared love of the guitar,
Starting point is 01:39:37 and of the music of Ike and Tina Turner. The new group thus had two contingents with different influences. The rhythm section, Kale played bass as well as viola, were from the experimental tradition, while Reid and Morrison's tastes ran to Brill Building Pop, the Beach Boys, Hardcore R&B, and Do Whop. One thing they were all agreed on, though, was what they were not going to do,
Starting point is 01:40:02 which was turn into one of the white blues bands that were starting to spring up. We actually had a rule in the band, we had explained. If anybody played a blues lick, they would be fined. Everyone was going crazy over all blues people, but they forgot about all those groups like the Spaniels, people like that. Records like smoke from your cigarette and I Need a Sunday kind of love. The Wind by the Chesters. Later for you, baby, by the Solitaire's. All those really ferocious records that no one seemed to listen to anymore were underneath everything we were playing. No one really knew that.
Starting point is 01:41:14 Reed was very vehement about his love of these forms that were already starting to fall out of fashion somewhat. In an essay he wrote around this time for a literary magazine. He was still trying to make it as a writer as well. He wrote, How can they give Robert Lowell a poetry prize, Richard Wilbur? It's a joke. What about the excellence?
Starting point is 01:41:33 Martha and the Vandellas? Holland, Dozier, Jeff Barry, Ali Greenwich, Bacharack and David, Carol King and Jerry Goffin, the best songwriting teams in America? Will none of the powers that? at B, realise what Brian Wilson did with the chords. Phil Spector being made out to be some kind of aberration
Starting point is 01:41:49 when he put out the best record ever made. You've lost that loving feeling. Another inspiration for the group came from the records that Cale would bring back from his regular trips to the UK, bands like The Who and the Kinks, who weren't having hits in the US at this point, but were big in Britain.
Starting point is 01:42:05 On his trips home, Kale also brought a tape of the new band, now renamed the Velvet Underground, and tried to get some interest from Andrew Lou Goldham. thinking some of the songs might be suitable for Marianne Faithful. Faithful was not interested in recording Venus in Furs, even though there was a family connection. Her great-great-uncle, Leopold von Saka Massock,
Starting point is 01:43:01 from whose name we get the word masochism, had written the novel on which that song was based. The group's new name also came from a book. in this case a cheap exploitation book that Tony Conrad had literally found in a gutter. The group liked the book's title because it implied a connection with underground film, the only art form at this point that was really called underground. And indeed the group's first performances were as live accompaniment to projections of silent underground films at various happenings.
Starting point is 01:43:30 Indeed, it was at one of these performances that the group were filmed for the first time, for a TV piece about underground film. Shortly after that, Al Aronowitz, the pop music correspondent for the New York Post, offered to manage the group. Aronowitz booked them as the support act for another group he managed, the middle class, and MacLeese quit the group. The idea of showing up at a specific time to play music,
Starting point is 01:43:55 and then finishing at a specific time to let the next band go on, was complete the alien to him, and he wanted no part of this at all. With only days to go, the group needed a new drummer fast, and they found what they assumed would be a temporary replacement, in Jim Tucker's sister Maureen. Mo Tucker, as she was always known, was 19 at the time and didn't play in a band,
Starting point is 01:44:19 but she did have a drum kit, which she played at home, along with Rolling Stones and Bo Diddley Records. Tucker's style was a unique one, as she put it herself. I always hated drummers like Ginger Baker. Oh my God, every possible moment smashing something. I just hated that even before I started.
Starting point is 01:45:06 started playing drums. So when I started to play, Charlie Watts was a big influence on me, and I don't think I even realised at the time why I liked him so much. He plays so simply. He never does anything that is unnecessary. I just find it so much more effective, and when she started playing, that's what she did, too. Her musical tastes in R&B went in much the same direction as Reed and Morrison, but there was a problem. Kale was adamant. There would be no chicks in the wording he used in his band. Eventually he was placated by the idea that she would be only temporary, just for this one gig, and as it turned out, Tucker's style was one that the rest of the group all appreciated for their own reasons. Kale, as I've said already, strongly disliked
Starting point is 01:45:51 the overuse of ride symbol, and Tucker didn't use symbols at all, just snare, Tom, and bass drum, which she turned on its side and hit with a stick like she would the other drums while playing standing up. The lack of symbols actually resonated with two of Reed's musical passions, too. While Al Jackson at Stacks' records did play the symbols, he stuck to the hi-hat and barely ever
Starting point is 01:46:13 played the ride, and his high-hat was never miced, and only showed up on the recordings through leakage. Steve Cropper always said that women bought most records, and women's ears were more sensitive to high frequencies than men, so high-pitched noises from symbols were a bad idea.
Starting point is 01:46:30 Similarly, when Vryanel Wilson was producing the Beach Boys records. From 1964 onwards, he got the session drummers to play without symbols. If there was going to be any high-frequency percussion on any Beach Boys records, it would be hand percussion like sleigh bells or tambourines, not ride symbol or hi-hat. The new lineup of the group gelled almost instantly. Mo Tucker played simple but powerful rhythms holding down the bottom end steady as a rock. Reed and Morrison would play twin guitars, in styles taken from the R&B records they loved, but also in playing the feedback techniques
Starting point is 01:47:04 Kale had been using with Lamont Young. Kale would either play bass in an unconventional style as he was unfamiliar with the clichés of rock bass playing and so never resorted to them, or, more often, his electric viola, creating ear-splitting sheets of sound. And Reed would sing his lyrics about heroin and sadomasochism
Starting point is 01:47:23 in a monotone voice that bore some resemblance to his Bob Dylan impression, but was much less emotional and inflected than Dylan ever was. There was a large improvisational component to the music, but in contrast to the style of the bands becoming successful on the West Coast, where improvisational instrumental sections
Starting point is 01:47:40 were a vector for individual self-expression in the eyes of the music's fans, or self-indulgence in the eyes of detractors like the velvets, this was collective improvisation in the service of the overall sound, with individuality sublimated to the collective. After the gig supporting the middle class, Aronowitz thought the group needed to get a good solid run of live performances behind them, and so he booked them into a residency at the Café Bazaar. There the group played a mixture of their own material and as many cover versions as they could work up in the time,
Starting point is 01:48:42 songs like Chuckberry's Little Queenie, and Jimmy Reed's Bright Lights Big City. This R&B core to the Velvet's work is overlooked, but if you listen to the few recordings that have surfaced of their rehearsals from this period you can hear a clear link between, for example, then running through Bo Didley is cracking up and the early arrangement of Reed's song, there she goes again. At one of the group's early shows at the Café Bazaar, Barbara Rubin, an underground filmmaker the group had worked with, came to see them and brought an acquaintance, Gerard Malanga. Malanga loved the band's music and got up and started dancing using a bow.
Starting point is 01:50:23 bull whip in his dance. During a break, Reed and Kael came up to Malanga and told him that he could come back and dance any time. Malanga loved this. He was someone who desperately desired recognition and attention, and so he became a big fan of the band. The next day he and Rubin came back with two more friends, Paul Morrissey and Andy Warhol. Warhol was by this point one of the most famous artists in the world, possibly the most famous, but he'd actually given up for the moment on paintings and screen printings. According to Morrissey, who was Warhol's business manager, this was to create an artificial scarcity in the market and make his paintings appreciating value, so when he did do more, they'd make more money. But of course, he still needed to be creating
Starting point is 01:51:08 something to keep his reputation, and thus his earning potential alive. And he also needed to do some expensive work so he could write the costs off against tax. So he'd bought some film equipment and gone into a new medium, underground film. Partially inspired by Lamont Young's minimalism, Warhol was a big fan of Young's work. He'd created a series of films like Sleep, a five-and-a-half-hour film with Warhol's then-boyfriend sleeping. Eat? A 45-minute silent film of the painter Robert Indiana eating a mushroom, to which Lamont Young
Starting point is 01:51:40 had performed a live soundtrack when it was shown. Taylor Meade's Ass, a 76-minute film of Warhol's friend Taylor Mead's buttocks, including some special effects shots that make it look like he's shoving dollar bills, magazines and books up his anus, and Empire, a film he co-directed with John Palmer, which consists of eight hours and five minutes of footage of the top of the Empire State Building from a single-fixed location. In total, Warhol directed somewhere in the region of 150 films. Many of them were conceptual ones like those I've just listed, but there were also quite a few that had attempts at conventional narrative, though done deliberately shoddily,
Starting point is 01:52:17 and often using characters from pop culture which Warhol didn't bother to get permission to use. Like his 1964 film Batman Dracula, or 1963's, Tarzan and Jane Regained, sort of. These films, which helped establish the camp and trash cinema aesthetic, attracted to Warhol a crowd of wannabe stars who flocked to the factory, Warhol's studio, which had been painted all in silver by Bill. name, the photographer and artist who had been part of the first line-up of the theatre of eternal music. Warhol referred to these people as his superstars, a term he got from the underground filmmaker Jack Smith, and which Warhol popularised. These superstars saw appearing in
Starting point is 01:52:59 Warhol's underground films as their ticket to fame and fortune. Most of them got neither, and there is an argument to be made that Warhol exploited these people, many of whom were vulnerable in one way or another, mostly queer at a time of repressive love. against their sexualities, often drug addicts, often mentally ill, all younger than him. Warhol and his defenders, on the other hand, would point out that he always encouraged those people to look after their own careers, and to use the publicity he got them, the way he did himself, to further their ambitions. After all, he wasn't making money directly from the films a lot of the time himself, just indirectly from what they did for his reputation.
Starting point is 01:53:39 That reputation was now at the point where he was a major celebrity. And as you may remember from the episode on The Twist, one thing that happened to celebrities at this time was that when nightclubs wanted publicity, there were pay celebrities to go to the club. Michael Meyerberg, a Broadway producer with a ponchant for the slightly arty, he had been the first person to produce Beckett's waiting for Godot in the US, had decided he wanted to open his own discotheque,
Starting point is 01:54:04 and offered to pay Warhol to go there every night. According to Morrissey, he made a counter-offer. I immediately said, I have a better suggestion. There's no real reason to just come out and sit there and get paid. It wasn't much money anyway. The only reason Andy will go is if he could be like Brian Epstein and present a group he managed.
Starting point is 01:54:23 According to Morrissey, Mayerberg liked the idea, so Morrissey expanded on it. Not only will Andy's presence be justified because his group is there, but behind the group we'll be projecting two or three images of film footage, because we were making all these movies that we've been showing at the cinema tech that had no commercial value. and I thought this would be a good way to have them generate some money too. This was agreed upon, and I was set to go out and find a rock and roll group.
Starting point is 01:54:47 I didn't know what group it was going to be. The Velvet Underground seemed a perfect group for Warhol to manage. Warhol and Kale had even appeared together in underground films before, but there was one problem. Morrissey thought that Lou Reed couldn't sing and had no charisma. Luckily, almost simultaneously, a solution presented herself, someone who Warhol described as a new kind of superstar. Nico's life before her late teens is difficult to untangle.
Starting point is 01:55:45 By all accounts, she lied all the time about everything. Some of this seems to have been just for fun, telling a good story rather than the truth. But other parts seem to have been a psychological defence mechanism. She was born in Cologne in 1938 and grew up just outside Berlin, her earliest years being those of the Second World War, and she never seems to have fully recovered from the trauma of the war and occupation. Many who knew her have said she was suffering
Starting point is 01:56:13 from what we would now call PTSD, and that seems to be borne out by things she said herself. She later said, I cannot be surprised by hell, which I do believe in. I have seen hell, I have smelt hell, which was in Berlin when the bombs destroyed it. Hell is like a city destroyed, and it is beautiful to see.
Starting point is 01:56:32 Of herself, she said, said, yes, I remember the war years very well, but that was not me, that was another girl. I seemed to myself to be a criminal who spends her entire life with faked documents. I can't identify myself with the past. Life consists of experiences which one accepts or refuses. You are formed by the things you accept. My memory consists of shreds and short flashes, never the whole picture. One thing she did remember was the music she listened to as a child. Her mother would regularly take her to the Berlin Opera House, which was kept. kept open after the war with very cheap tickets, as a propaganda tool for the Soviets,
Starting point is 01:57:08 who ran that section of Occupy Berlin. Her mother was also a fan of Zara Leander, the Swedish Schlager singer whose career had been promoted by Goebbels, and who became the German equivalent of Britain's forces sweetheart via Berlin. In later years, Nico's own vocals would bear a remarkable resemblance to Leander's. Nico was first was first discovered as a teenager. She had started hanging around a prestigious German shop called the Cardi-W because she thought that fashion designers and photographers went there regularly.
Starting point is 01:58:11 Eventually one did. And she became a model. at first working as a mannequin, someone who shows off dresses in expensive shops for open market customers. She soon moved to Paris though and became an in-demand photographic model. There she made two changes. The first was to change her name to Nico,
Starting point is 01:58:30 after Nico Papatakis, a nightclub owner who one of her gay friends lusted after. She liked the idea of having a male name and later made many, many comments like, The Most Beautiful Boys were interested in the Most Beautiful Boys. I can understand that. I wanted to be a boy myself. I mean, why should I want to be a woman?
Starting point is 01:58:49 I liked my homosexual friends the best. I gave the impression of being a boy with my short hair and low voice. In those days I had a weakness for gay men and wanted to be one myself, so I told everyone that I was. The other change she made was to start dying her hair blonde. She would later always claim that she started doing this after an encounter with Ernest Hemingway, saying, he had just won the Nobel Prize
Starting point is 01:59:10 and I thought that if a winner of the Nobel Prize told you to do something about your hair, there is something to consider. I could be a Nobel blonde. I did this eventually. It was not so easy then as it became to keep your hair blonde, but it was good for me to do it. Don't they say blondes have more fun? Well, I don't agree.
Starting point is 01:59:29 It is more correct to say blondes have more money. Whether that's true or not, nobody can know. But it is true that throughout her life Nika would have many, many encounters with famous men, and that most of them, unlike that one, caused her a great deal of harm. In Paris she started hanging around with a much artier, more sophisticated crowd than she had in Berlin, including people like the Dardarist artist Tristan Zara,
Starting point is 01:59:53 and started thinking of herself as a beatnik. She said of the beatniks, it took me a long time to understand anything because it was a foreign language inside a foreign language, but I knew I was not alone in my thinking. The beatniks also widened her musical interests. Now, as well as Opfer and Schlager, She was listening to the modern jazz of Dizzy Gillespie and Bud Powell
Starting point is 02:00:13 and to the chanson of singers like Jacques Brell and Georges Brassons. She particularly liked the simplicity of this style with just a singer and a guitar, and when she eventually started to do her own musical performances, that was the style she liked to go back to. She was also given a small part in Fellini's film La Dolce Vita, playing a model called Nico. This was actually a problem for her.
Starting point is 02:01:08 The way Fellini saw it, she was just playing herself, so it should have been easy. The way Nico saw it, though, Nico was herself a character so she was playing a character playing a character and she had no idea how to do this eventually Felini hit on the solution
Starting point is 02:01:23 of having her play a character utterly unlike herself though still using the same name Nico was very quiet and didn't say much so Felini insisted she'd be talking constantly every time she was on screen getting her to babble nonsense words which were later overdubbed with sensible dialogue
Starting point is 02:01:39 she only had a small role in the film but she was a hit and she appeared in another more conventional film with Alan Dallon. She then started a relationship with the man she'd named herself after, Nico Papatakis, and they spent two years together, moving to New York where she studied acting at least Trasberg's actor's studio, and where she developed a nodding acquaintance with Alan Ginsberg. But then she had a brief fling with Dallon,
Starting point is 02:02:04 which resulted in a child who Dallon disowned, but who was eventually adopted by Dallon's mother, and she moved to Abitha to be near her own mother. in the suite above hers was a jazz band, led by Victor Brocks, who I have to mention here attended the same school as I did, though many decades before me, and who died last month. Brooks is now most famous for having played the role of Caiaphas on the original concept album version of Jesus Christ Superstar.
Starting point is 02:02:42 of one man, blood and destruction, because of one man, because, because, because of one man, our elimination, because of one man, because, because, because of one, cause of one, cause. But he had a very long career in blues and jazz, as both a singer and an instrumentalist. Brocks and Nico had a brief affair, but his main importance to her was teaching her about music.
Starting point is 02:03:09 He said later, she'd been curious about the free music group I ran, and she wanted to know everything about jazz and blues, absolutely everything. She started to come upstairs and I'd talk her through the history of the forms, the styles, the key musicians, the singers like Bessie Smith, just everything I could tell her and play her. She just sat there and listened intently,
Starting point is 02:03:30 though I had no way of knowing how much she took in. Then she came over to the improvisation sessions. There was a rule for entry, you had to bring an instrument. Nico brought her tape recorder. For the rest of her life, she credited Brocks, the Professor of Jazz, as she called him, with introducing her properly to music and teaching her how to sing. She then moved on to Paris, where she was introduced by a mutual friend to Bob Dylan, with whom she had a brief affair.
Starting point is 02:03:57 She'd been aware of him, though she didn't think much of his music, saying she didn't understand his lyrics. Twing-twang, twing-twank, baby, that's how it went, was Nico's summary of Dylan's work at that point. Dylan did, though, write a song while they were together for those. few days, supposedly about Nico, which she later recorded. According to Nico, he didn't like it when I tried to sing along with him. I thought he was being chauvinistic and a little annoyed that I could sing properly,
Starting point is 02:04:55 at least in tune, so he made me more determined to sing to other people. Dylan did, though, suggest that if Nico wanted to become a singer, she should try the Blue Angel Club in New York. And the next time she was in the city, in autumn 1964, she got herself a booking there doing torch songs. Her favourite song to sing in the show was My Funny Valentine, a song she would keep in her solo sets for the rest of her life, and which she muddled on the version by the jazz trumpeter Chepp Baker,
Starting point is 02:05:23 who she said introduced her to heroin. At the end of 1964, she moved again, this time to London, because swinging London was becoming the centre of the new youth culture, and she wanted to be a part of it. Unfortunately, at 26, she was already past her prime as a model, and she was also no longer the fashionable type of figure. She was, though, still a good-looking woman, and she got herself introduced to Andrew Oldham,
Starting point is 02:06:20 who she had heard was looking for another female star to go with Marianne Faithful, who he was managing. Oldham was interested, especially after she told him about being in La Dolce Vita and having Dylan write a song for her, but he took a while to decide on what to do with her. In the meantime, she started dating Brian Jones, in what turned into an on-again-off-again relationship for the next couple of years.
Starting point is 02:06:43 At first it was very much on, and she travelled with the Stones to France, where she met Andy Warhol for the first time, and to America on their 1965 US tour. Unfortunately, Jones treated her the way he treated all the women in his life, and while they seemed to have at times enjoyed a relationship that was at least partly based around consensual BDSM, From reading the accounts of it, he also crossed a line several times into some quite horrific, non-consensual, physical and sexual abuse of her.
Starting point is 02:07:13 As Nico put it, he was charming until he locked the door. But her relationship with Jones did keep her around Andrew Oldham, and Oldham eventually offered her a record deal with his new label, immediate. Nico decided that her first single should be the song Bob Dylan wrote for her, and Handily, Dylan was soon in London, playing the last shows of his 1965. tour. Hey, Mr. Tambourine man, play a song for me. I'm not sleepy, and there ain't no place I'm going to.
Starting point is 02:07:48 Hey, Mr. Tambourine man, play a song for me. In the jingle, jangle morning, I'll come following you. Though I know that evening's empire has a return to. Nico missed the gig, but did manage to get to the after-show party, and there she asked Dylan to let her record the song, not realising he'd just given it to Judy Collins, who would soon release it as a single, or that Dylan had told Collins he'd written the song about her.
Starting point is 02:08:27 She tried to persuade Dylan to let her record the song, and at first he wasn't keen. According to Nico, he had been put off the idea of having women sing his songs by Joan Baez. But eventually Dylan told her he was planning to go into the studio with some British musicians after a few days in Portugal and they could try it then. That session had to be put off
Starting point is 02:08:45 due to the illness and or bad trip we talked about in the episodes on brand new Cadillac and like a Rolling Stone. And when the session did happen with Dylan attempting to record with members of John Mayol's blues breakers with Nico present,
Starting point is 02:08:59 it didn't go well and only a fragment of that recording circulates and not a fragment featuring Nico. You just start, you come in. She's something you might see I want to be with you, gal. If you want to be with me, but if you've got to go, it's all right.
Starting point is 02:09:38 She also had a talk with Dylan's manager, Albert Grossman, who agreed to marriage her, but only in the US. At the session, they did cut a quick one-take demo of I'll-keep-it-with-mine, with Dylan on piano and Nico singing, and Nico played it excitedly to old him. But Oldham said that while it was a good song, it should be her second single, not her first. The first should be something more up-tempo. He decided on a song by another of Grossman's clients, Gordon Lightfoot.
Starting point is 02:10:06 The B-side, The Last Mile, was written by Oldham and the record's producer Jimmy Page, and is a simple track with just Nico and two guitars. Discographies differ over whether Page, Brian Jones, or both of them play the guitars, though the simple acoustics drumming could be anyone. Nico made an appearance on Ready, Steady Go, performing I'm Not Saying on an episode with Jonathan King and the Walker Brothers, but that wasn't enough to get the record into the charts. And while immediate records would soon become successful,
Starting point is 02:11:48 Oldham didn't ever get round to making the promised second record. Nico left for New York to try to connect again with Albert Grossman, but she also had the business card of Gerard Malanga, who had visited her in London and remembered her from her meeting with Warhol in Paris. She visited the factory, just as Warhol and Paul Morrissey had decided to start managing the Velvet's, and just as Morrissey was trying to persuade the group that they needed a new front person.
Starting point is 02:12:14 After she played them her new single, and her acetate copy of the demo she'd made with Dylan, Morrissey was convinced. Instead of dull, uncharismatic Lou Reed, the group singer should be Nico, who was going to be the latest Warhol superstar. The group were unsure about this. They already had some doubts about Warhol. Kale said of him,
Starting point is 02:12:34 So much of what Andy did seem to be a diluted version of the downtown avant-garde scene. I had previously worked with the composer Lamont Young, and we were concerned with philosophical attitudes to art. Le Mont was concerned with durations and longevity, and so we viewed Andy's dollar bills and Elvis's and soup cans with grave suspicion. Lamont's work was about long duration, and Andy dealt in repetition.
Starting point is 02:12:56 We got the feeling that strong ideas were being recycled and thinned out by people like Andy. Now they were having another member foisted on them, and to make matters worse, it was another chick. But also, Warhol was going to be their ticket to the big time. They eventually compromised. Nico could perform with them, but would be billed separately. They would be the Velvet Underground and Nico.
Starting point is 02:14:04 Reed in particular was unhappy with this, but none of the band were happy. In particular, they all felt that her voice, just didn't suit most of the group's material, but she wanted to sing it all. According to Tucker, Nico was a schmuck from the first. She was this beautiful person who had traveled through Europe
Starting point is 02:14:21 being a semi-star. Her ego had grown very large. The songs Lou wrote for her were great, and she did them very well. Her accent made them great, but there was a limit. I kept to myself until she wanted to sing heroin, but then I had to speak my piece. Things got a little better when Reed and Nico started a brief affair,
Starting point is 02:14:39 and Reed wrote a handful of songs. song specifically for her to sing, like the lovely ballad, I'll Be Your Mirror. But that affair soon ended, and Reid became more resentful of her than ever, especially after she made anti-Semitic comments about him. The new expanded lineup of the group made their first appearance on January the 13th, 1966, at a psychiatrist's convention. Warhol had been asked to give an after-dinner speech at the convention, and had offered instead to show some of his films.
Starting point is 02:15:43 What they got for their after-dinner performance was a happening, which started with Barbara Rubin rushing in and pointing a film camera with a bright light directly in the faces of the diners and loudly asking them personal questions about their penis size and sex lives. Then on came the Velvet Underground, performing their songs about BDSM and heroin
Starting point is 02:16:02 in front of the shocked audience. Soon this became the basis of a multimedia happening, first titled Andy Warhol's Uptight, and then later renamed first the erupting plastic inevitable and then the exploding plastic inevitable. Several of Warhol's films were projected simultaneously, including onto the performers, while the Velvet Underground played, and Gerard Malanga and another of Warhol's superstars, Mary Warrenov, danced improvised dancers in fetish gear, brandishing a whip.
Starting point is 02:16:32 Warhol also put together a series of slides and a coloured light show which were also projected onto the stage, and used a mirrorball and strobe lights, a decade before such things became commonplace. Nico sang the three songs Read had written for her, sang along with her demo recording of I'll Keep It With Mine, and banged a tambourine out of time the rest of the time. After the psychiatrist's convention, a brief run at the Cinematheque in New York
Starting point is 02:16:58 and some out-of-town tryouts in places like Ann Arbor, Michigan. The group were ready for their residency at the new club, but then Morrissey was informed by the manager the day before the residency that Meyerberg had decided to book the young rascals instead. But then someone overhauled, heard Warhol and Morrissey talking about their lack of a venue in a cafe and recommended somewhere called the Dom, which they could rent relatively cheap for a residency. The shows at the Dom went down a storm, taking in somewhere in the region of $18,000, and soon the group were in the recording studio,
Starting point is 02:17:30 putting together an album that Warhol, who would be the credited producer, hoped to sell to Columbia Records. Warhol knew a man named Norman Dolph, who at the time was working for Columbia, though he'd given his notice, working for the division that pressed up records for small independent labels with no pressing plants of their own. On the side, Dolf ran a mobile disco and provided music for art shows,
Starting point is 02:18:28 which he'd do in exchange for free paintings, and he'd also done the sound at the dom. Dolph got in touch with John Ricarter, an engineer at SEPTA Records, who had their own studio. The idea was that the group would record a quick album in four days, and Dolf would use his connections at Columbia
Starting point is 02:18:44 to get it released. The job of producer has split multiple ways, though Warhol is the only one to get label credit. From all accounts, Leicarta took charge of the technical aspects. Dolph acted as line producer, doing all the organisational work. Kale supervised the arrangements. Reed, who was the only member of the band with any real studio experience, made sure that the sound Lecharta was getting on tape was the same sound the band wanted, and Warhol, in Reed's words, was, behind the board, gazing with rapt fascination at all the blinking line.
Starting point is 02:19:15 doing little or nothing of the actual production. Though Reid would go on to qualify this, saying, In a sense he really did produce it, because he was this umbrella that absorbed all the attacks when we weren't large enough to be attacked. As a consequence of him being the producer, we'd just walk in and set up and do what we always did,
Starting point is 02:19:33 and no one would stop it because Andy was the producer. Of course, he didn't know anything about record production, but he didn't have to. He just sat there and said, ooh, that's fantastic. And the engineer would say, Oh yeah, right, it is fantastic, isn't it? They recorded a 10-track album in four days.
Starting point is 02:19:51 Two days to record, one to play back and choose takes, and one to mix, featuring the three songs Nico sang with the band, All Tomorrow's Parties, Femfetal, and Al Be Your Mirror, plus seven other songs, ranging from the abrasive Black Angel's Death Song, which unlike most of the album, has Kale credited as a co-writer. to lose to lose. To the poppy
Starting point is 02:20:29 country all covered with sleep where the black angel did weep. Not in old city's street and age. Gone to change.
Starting point is 02:20:44 To the poppy there she goes again, which shows Lou Reed's experience as a writer of catchy three-minute pop songs. According to Dolph, there were three
Starting point is 02:21:25 separate ambiances. One was when Lou sang heroin and waiting for the man and he was deeply concerned that it not break down, that he got his all down in one shot,
Starting point is 02:21:34 and in those there was a great deal of intensity in the room. In the songs that Nico sang, there was a very delicate, deferential, Let's see what we have to do to get this done at Ambulance, and the third was a workman-like attempt to recreate just what they had done the night before in the live gig. Everyone was convinced that the album was a masterpiece, but in quick succession, Columbia, Atlantic, and Elektra Records,
Starting point is 02:21:57 the three labels with a substantial East Coast presence that would have been most likely to take it, turn the album down. Luckily, they were about to go to the West Coast, for booking at the trip on the sunset strip, followed by the Fillmore, where they were sure they'd go down well. They were sure of this right until they turned on the radio in California for the first time. The Velvet Underground, all of them,
Starting point is 02:22:51 loathed the hippie scene and everything about it, and hearing the mamas and the poppers on the radio seemed to summarise everything they despised about the hippies and about the West Coast. As Reid put it, the West Coast bands were into soft drugs, we were into hard drugs. Working at the trip was a bust.
Starting point is 02:23:09 On their opening night, plenty of celebrities turned up, but most of them reacted like Cher, who left early and was quoted saying their music wasn't going to replace anything except suicide, though a young student named Jim Morrison also attended, and seemed very taken with Mollanger's leather persona. The club was closed down by the police after three days of their residency, but by musicians' union rules, so long as they stayed in L.A. and remained theoretically available for work
Starting point is 02:23:35 for the full length of the residency, they would get paid as if they played. So they spent the town in L.A. not working, and staying at the castle, a large mansion house in Las Filles where lots of rock groups stayed. Which, just to make life difficult for people like me, is not the castle, the large mansion house in Los Feles
Starting point is 02:23:54 that Love moved into around the same time, and which also hosted other rock musicians. This explains, incidentally, the rumours that Bob Dylan stayed at the Love Castle, which Johnny Eccles denies. He didn't. He spent time at the Velvet's Castle in 1965. After that, they went on to the Fillmore, where they played third on the bill to Jefferson Airplane and the Mothers of Invention.
Starting point is 02:24:18 They did not go down well there. Ralph Gleeson, whose word was taken more or less as gospel by the San Francisco scene, said of their performance, Warhol's exploding plastic inevitable show was nothing more than bad condensation of all the bum trips of the Trips Festival. few people danced. The music was something of a dud, the Velvet Underground being a very dull group.
Starting point is 02:24:38 It was all very campy and very Greenwich Village sick. If this is what America is waiting for, we are going to die of boredom because this is a celebration of the silliness of cafe society, way out and left field instead of far out, and joyless. The feeling was mutual. Reed said of the West Coast bands, we had vast objections to the whole San Francisco scene.
Starting point is 02:24:59 It's just tedious, a lie and untalented. They can't play and they certainly can't write. I keep telling everybody and nobody cares. We used to be quiet, but I don't even care anymore about not wanting to say negative things because somebody really should say something. Frank Zapper is the most untalented bore who ever lived. You know, people like Jefferson Airplane,
Starting point is 02:25:20 Grateful Dead, all those people are just the most untalented bores that ever came up. Just look at them physically. I mean, can you take Grace Slick seriously? It's a joke. Oddly, in all their discussions of their head, hatred of the San Francisco scene, all of the Velvet Underground lumped Frank Zappa in with the San Francisco groups, and indeed single him out as being an example of the love and peace music they despised,
Starting point is 02:25:43 even though he was an LA musician who shared all their criticisms of the San Francisco scene and would articulate them viciously, and more publicly than they did, on songs like Who Needs the Peace Corps? I'm hippie and I'm trippy I'm a gypsy on my own I'll stay a week and get the crabs and take a bus back home I'm really just a phony but forgive me because I'm stone
Starting point is 02:26:28 Lou Reed would later retract some of his criticisms and indeed would posthumously induct Zapper into the rock and roll hall of fame but at the time the Velvets and the mothers had an intense, vicious rivalry that seems at least in part to have been the narcissism of small differences.
Starting point is 02:26:43 Both of them had similarly cynical attitudes, both name-checked many of the same old do-wop records, both were influenced by the same avant-garde composers and free jazz musicians. Of course they hated each other, and both bands turned out to have the same producer. It seems to be on this first LA trip, I say seems to be, because there were some nuances of the timeline that just don't fit right, that the Velvet Underground first encountered Tom Wilson. Wilson had just moved from Columbia Records to MGM Verve, and in 1966, as well as producing the mothers, he was working on everything from live albums by Connie Francis
Starting point is 02:27:20 to the Blues Project's Projections album. More interestingly, he worked on two separate projects that might have appealed to Warhol's pop aesthetic, both of them combining experimental music with a cash-in on the popularity of the Batman TV show. One was an album of instrumentals titled Batman and Robin performed by The Sensational Guitars of Dan and Dale
Starting point is 02:28:11 The sensational guitars of Dan and Dale were, in this instance, actually a supergroup consisting of members of the Blues Project and of Sunrars' Archestra, with Sunr and Al Cooper sharing keyboard duties. The album has since been reissued as by Sunrara and the Blues Project. Then there was Boy Wonder I Love You.
Starting point is 02:29:06 It's really hard to read all the tons of mail I get. Here is a happy letter from someone just about your age. Dear cute, wonderful, fabulous, magnificent, exquisite boy wonder. A cold chill runs up my spine every time I see you Saka villain. And oh, how I cry when you're even scratch. Please don't send me a mimeograph copy of interesting facts about it. you, I want your handwriting, I have a whole wall of my room dedicated to you.
Starting point is 02:29:51 That was the one single released by Bert Ward, who played Robin in the TV series, and was written for Ward by Zappa, who also conducted the orchestra. Given Wilson's background in the experimental jazz music the Velvets loved, his production of Dylan's folk rock records, which were probably the closest thing to their music in the commercial realm,
Starting point is 02:30:13 and his current work with Zappa, who, despite what they all said, was a very similar artist to them, he was clearly the one producer in the world who was working for a major label and likely to actually be receptive to the Velvet Underground. Wilson immediately started work on fixing up their first album for release. He started producing overdubs and editing the tracks they'd recorded in New York for release. The first thing to come out of these sessions was a version of, All Tomorrow's Parties, edited down to three minutes and released as a single in July 1966, backed with Al Be Your Mirror. Wilson also produced new recordings of what he thought
Starting point is 02:31:24 with the three weakest performances on the album, I'm Waiting for the Man, Venus in Furs, and Heroin. While all this was going on though, the band were in crisis. The exploding plastic inevitable show basically ended in May, because it became unsustainable to tour a show with lights, dancers, and projections. There would be occasional shows for the rest of the year and into the next, but with decreasing frequency and diminishing returns. After the shows in California, Reed ended up in hospital for six weeks with hepatitis, and the rest of the group, minus Nico, who'd gone off to Abitha, had to pull together a show they could perform without him, as they were booked him for a week-long stint in Chicago. For those shows, Angus MacLeese returned to the band
Starting point is 02:32:43 on drums, allowing Mo to take over the bass so Kale could play Reed's guitar parts and sing lead. After performing again with the group, MacLeese started pushing to rejoin, realizing he had made a mistake in quitting the group. Reed refused to even countenance the idea, and lectured MacLeese from his hospital bed while yellow with jaundice, telling him he was only back temporarily and not to get any ideas. Reed was already beginning to realize that there was attention in the band between his pop songwriting, however dark the subject matter, and Kale's
Starting point is 02:33:16 avant-garde tendencies. Not only was he loyal to Tucker on principle, but this meant that if he allowed McLeese to take over from her, Kale would have an ally in the group. There was another problem as well. The group had lost the dom. While they'd been away on their disastrous
Starting point is 02:33:33 Californian adventure, the agent who'd booked them for the California shows had gone behind their back and worked with Albert Grossman to take over the club, which they renamed the balloon farm. They then offered to let the Velvet's play there, but just as a regular band, not with Warhol and Morrissey promoting, so they'd make much less money for the same thing. The group refused the offer, and indeed was so disgruntled that this most New York of bands didn't play a New York again for the rest of the 60s, making their musical bass in Boston, where they would build up their biggest following. While Nico was
Starting point is 02:34:07 still performing with them on some occasions. More and more, Reed in particular, was resenting this. When Tom Wilson suggested that they needed another commercial track for the album before it could be released, to put out as a single, and that it should be sung by Nico like the first single had been. Reed initially agreed, and wrote a song for Nico to sing, but eventually insisted on singing it himself on the record, though Nico would sing it live. That single, Sunday Morning, was inspired by Warhol, suggesting that he write a song. about paranoia, but some have pointed out that it also seems to have been inspired by that Mama's and Papa's song the group had hated so much in California.
Starting point is 02:35:18 Nico was a semi-detached part of the band, but she was trying to build a career in her own right. She had spent part of the summer starring in her film Warhol and Morrissey women, were making, Chelsea Girls, about the Chelsea Hotel. Reid had been asked to write a song for her to sing for its theme, but had been dragging his feet, and the film was eventually released without its song. There was a space below the balloon farm which was looking for an act. According to Morrissey, its reasoning was quite awful.
Starting point is 02:35:46 The owner of the venue thought they were getting too many black customers and not enough white ones. The owner decided to ask Nico to perform there, while the group weren't playing live much, as he thought she'd put black people off. But when Morrissey asked the group members if any of them would back Nico on solo electric guitar, he didn't want them to be seen as folk musicians,
Starting point is 02:36:06 for her solo performances, all any of them would do was record some tapes for her to play. She had to bring a tape player on stage with her and press play at the start of every song, and stop at the end. Apparently Kale or Morrison would occasionally show up and back her, but not very often. Eventually, Danny Fields,
Starting point is 02:36:24 who you may remember from the episode on All You Need is Love as the managing editor of Datebook magazine when The Bigger Than Jesus' story made its cover, but who was by this time working for Elektra records and with the doors, suggested they get in an electoral artist, Tim Buckley, as both Nico's support act and her guitarist. Buckley played with Nico for a while
Starting point is 02:37:20 before being replaced by another Tim, Tim Hardin. Would you marry me anyway? Would you have my baby? If a tinker were my trade, Would you still find me carrying the pots I made following behind me? Save my love for sorrow.
Starting point is 02:37:58 Harding caused problems though. He quickly got nicknamed Tim Heroin. But luckily a replacement was at hand. A teenage fan of Tim Buckley's who had been coming to all of the shows that Buckley had played and had got to know Morrissey. Soon, Nico's accompanist was Jack Brown. After extensive delays, the Velvet Underground and Nico album
Starting point is 02:38:53 finally came out in March 1967, almost a year after it was recorded in an expensive package designed by Warhol showing a banana skin. The skin on these early pressings was a sticker you could peel off to reveal a very phallic pink banana underneath. There's a line attributed to Brian Eno
Starting point is 02:39:12 that the record only sold 30,000 copies. It's actually sold about twice that, but that everyone who bought a copy formed a band. That actually, if anything, undersells its influence because the record was starting to influence musicians even before it was released. A British manager called Kenneth Pitts had visited the factory in November 1966
Starting point is 02:39:33 and had been given an acetate of the album. The band The Riot Squad, who had been working with Joe Meek up until Meek's suicide, took on a new lead singer who was a client of Pitts after Meek's death, and they started performing waiting for the man live with the new singer, who would not perform under his own name, but only as the Toy Soldier, months before the record even came out.
Starting point is 02:39:54 And shortly after the album did come out, the Riot Squad went into the studio to cut an original written by the Toy Soldier, titled Little Toy Soldier. Well, I say an original. This verse may sound very familiar. Little Sadie loved her Little Toy Soldier, and she'd locked the door so she could play.
Starting point is 02:40:15 Little Sadie got ambitious and round the clockwork soldier tighter so he could whip her harder and harder on your knees little Sadie Little Sadie Little Sadie on your knees
Starting point is 02:40:30 Taste the whip In love not given likely Taste the whip And bleed for me One day Sadie wound and round That track didn't get released at the time And soon David Bowie
Starting point is 02:40:45 Was back to being a solo artist However while the album Immediately started influencing people It was a commercial failure. It looked at first as if it might be a success, but then one of the Warhol superstars, Eric Emerson, sued because the back cover included a photo of the group performing in front of a Warhol film,
Starting point is 02:41:05 in which Emerson's face was visible. He needed money and hadn't given likeness permission, and so sued, hoping to shake down MGM records. Instead, they recalled the album, expensive packaging and all, and reissued it with an airbrushed version of the photo, but the album not being available during the crucial period when it was just beginning to become popular
Starting point is 02:41:26 killed all of its momentum. By that point though, work had started on Nico's first solo album titled Chelsea Girl after the theme song Reed had belatedly co-written with Morrison. It's enough to make you sick Bridget's all wrapped up in foil you wonder if she can uncour Here they come now.
Starting point is 02:42:05 See them run now. Here they come now. The album was produced by Tom Wilson and contains songs written for Nico by Reed, Kale and Morrison, plus one by Tim Hardin, her version of I'll Keep It With Mine, and a few by Jackson Brown. For the initial sessions,
Starting point is 02:42:30 Nico was backed by one or two accompanists, Reed and Kale, Reed and Morrison, or Kale alone, for the songs written by them. and Brown on the other songs. But then, as he had done successfully with Bob Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel, Wilson supervised an overdub session to which the artist was not invited, this time adding strings and flute.
Starting point is 02:42:50 She's having fun. She thinks she summons on. Her perfect loves don't last, her future die. Here they come now. I said later, I cried when I heard the album. I cried because of the flute. I hate it so much. It is a great mistake. The arrangements in general were not so good. Even so I could bear the string sound. But I wish I could take the flute off. There should be a button on record players, a no flute button. There could be an add drums button too. Why not? You would think
Starting point is 02:43:42 they could do this. It would be fun to orchestrate some things and to un-ochestrate some things. Well, I wish I could un-ochestrate Chelsea Girl. The flute anyway. Reed agreed, saying, If they'd just have allowed Kale to arrange it and let me do more stuff on it, I mean everything on that song Chelsea Girls, those strings that flute should have defeated it. But the lyrics Nico's voice managed somehow to survive. Nico's romantic life had grown ever more complex.
Starting point is 02:44:09 After dating Reed for a while, she'd had a brief affair with Kale, and then had dated Brown, and was now in the process of dumping him for Jim Morrison, partly to escape from these increased entanglements, and partly to seek medical treatment. treatment for a problem with her ears. She flew off to London. She turned up at the house of an acquaintance, the photographer David Bailey, expecting to be able to stay with him, but he panicked
Starting point is 02:44:32 when he saw her on the doorstep with her suitcases, and instead suggested she go to stay with Paul McCartney, who he knew. She did, and was with him around the time of the release of Sergeant Pepper. That's a book and looking up I noticed I was late. Find my coat and grabbed my hat. Made the bus in seconds fly. And somebody spoke and I went into a dream. That track caused a bit of a faux par though.
Starting point is 02:45:22 In Nico's words, there is a song I liked on Sergeant Pepper called A Day in the Life. It has a beautiful song and then this string sound like John Cale would make. He told me it was an orchestra actually. and then this stupid little pop song that spills everything so far. I told this to Paul and I made a mistake because the beautiful song was written by John Lannon and the stupid song was written by Paul. It can be embarrassing when you speak the truth.
Starting point is 02:45:46 After Nico had stayed with McCartney for a couple of weeks, Andy Warhol and Paul Morrissey turned up in London, wanting to speak with Brian Epstein about the possibility of Epstein promoting a Velvet Underground tour, having heard that he liked the album. When they realised that Nico was trying McCartney's patience, They dragged her back to America, telling her that there was a Velvet Underground gig she had to be at in Boston. There was a Velvet Underground gig in Boston, but when they got there, the group refused to let Niko on stage,
Starting point is 02:46:15 saying they'd been doing fine without her. Nico essentially told them they could stick their group. After all, she'd recorded an album by herself and they hadn't, and flew off to California, where she met up again with her on-again-off-again-lover Brian Jones, and went with him to the Monterey Pop Festival. This brought to ahead things that had been brewing for some time. The group had been getting more and more convinced at Warhol, who had been such an advantage for them early on, was losing interest in them,
Starting point is 02:46:42 while Morrissey was always more interested in Nico than in the rest of the band. The group sacked Warhol and Morrissey at a business meeting, the day after the Boston gig, and there were conflicting reports about how amicable the split was, with everyone involved saying different things at different times. There seems to have been some bitterness over some of the summer, the business affairs, but still some remaining friendship, he have slightly strained, between Reed and Kale on one side and Warhol on the other. By this time the group had already
Starting point is 02:47:11 been performing for months, much of the material that would make up their second album, an album that wouldn't have had any room in it for Nico anyway. White Light White Heat was the first studio album, just to be released by the Velvet Underground, without any additional members. As it turned out, it was the only studio album to be released by the original pre-Niko lineup of the Velvet Underground. There were five studio albums credited to the group between 1967 and 1973, and no two of them had the same line-up. Where the Velvet Underground and Nico had been an 11-track album where Lou Reed's pop sensibility and Kale's avant-garde experimentalism
Starting point is 02:48:20 were in a creative tension. Here, the entire band were united in a drive to make a record that was, in Kale's words, consciously anti-beauty. Where the majority of the songs on the first album had been credited to read alone, as he had brought in the words, chord sequences and melodies
Starting point is 02:48:37 around which the band had created the arrangements. This time, three of the six songs were credited either to all four of the group members or to read Morrison and Kale, suggesting, and interviews about the album back this up, that they evolved from jam sessions and improvisations. The lengths of the tracks also bear this out with two of the three collaborative tracks coming in at mammoth lengths.
Starting point is 02:49:02 One, the gift, is over eight minutes long and features a rare vocal from Kale. That track was originally an instrumental the group had titled Booker T, but Kale suggested that over the instrumental he should recite a short story read had written a few years earlier. The story had originally been written as a letter to a long-distance girlfriend of Reeds,
Starting point is 02:49:22 with whom he was in an on-again-off-again relationship for much of the time covered by this episode. and was about a man in a similar relationship who mails himself as a surprise present to his girlfriend, who then, in her haste to open the box and see what's inside, stabs it, killing him. Walter Jeffers had reached his limit. It was now mid-August,
Starting point is 02:49:43 which meant he had been separated from Marsha for more than two months. Two months, all yet to show, with three doggy letters, two very expensive long-distance phone calls. True and school had ended, and she returned to be sponsored. to locust in Pennsylvania, she had sworn to maintain a certain fidelity. She would date occasionally, but merely as a amusement.
Starting point is 02:50:06 She would remain faithful. But lately, Wadher had begun to worry. He had trouble sleeping. The other extra long track on the album is Sister Ray, included partly as a favour to Warhol, who, while he was no longer the group's manager, was still close enough to them to design the cover of the album, uncredited. Warhol apparently told them they had to include that sucking on my ding-dong song
Starting point is 02:50:31 and so they did all 14 minutes of it The album is relentless of The album is relentless, dark and brooding It's a paranoid, angry, scary album and one that can partly be explained by the change in the principal band members' drug of choice in the two and a half years since the writing of the first album
Starting point is 02:51:18 from heroin, a drug which pacifies you, to amphetamine, which puts you on edge and makes you, as their original Warhol show had put it, uptight. And nowhere could that be seen more than on the title track, which was also the opening track and first single. White Light, White Heat is an intense evocation of the amphetamine experience, jittery, hard and twitchy. The material on the album was the closest the group ever got to fully expressing the artistic vision, that John Cale had for the band,
Starting point is 02:52:21 but much like with Chelsea Girl, the group, and Cale in particular, were unhappy with the production, again by Tom Wilson. This time, though, it was not because Wilson took charge of the record and changed it, but because he didn't take charge.
Starting point is 02:52:35 Wilson was, without a doubt, one of the great record producers of the 1960s, and he could, at times, be one of the most imaginative and innovative. It was him who had turned Dylan Electric, and who had turned Simon and Garfin called Sound of Silence, from a folk flop to a folk rock hit. But he was only a creative producer when he needed to be,
Starting point is 02:52:56 when he was working with musicians who didn't know what they wanted, who neither their ideas shaped. Wilson had come up in jazz, producing records for Sun Rar, Cecil Taylor, John Coltrane and others, and in those situations, the job of the producer was much the same one that Andy Warhol had performed on the Velvet's first sessions, to get out of the way and to stop anyone else. getting in the way and let the artists take control.
Starting point is 02:53:22 This was what Wilson did, for example, on the early mothers of invention albums. Frank Zappa knew what he was doing, and Wilson's job was to let Zapper do it and shield him from record company nonsense. For white light white heat, Wilson was working with an accomplished engineer, Gary Kellgren, and with musicians he respected who he'd worked with before, and who he knew had a very clear idea of what they wanted. Lou Reed had been a staffer at Pickwick. He knew his way around a studio.
Starting point is 02:53:51 John Cale was one of the most highly trained and experienced musicians in the world, not just in rock music. Both those men knew what they were doing, so Wilson stayed out of their way. They didn't have much of a budget because their first album had been very expensive and sold poorly. They only had a few days' time in the studio, not enough time to do anything fancy,
Starting point is 02:54:11 so the best thing to do was let them get on with it. The problem was that they were used to playing loud and wanted the record to sound like they did when they played live and they insisted on playing at the same volume in the studio that they did on stage to replicate that sound. Gary Kellgren tried to explain to them that the volumes they were playing at simply couldn't be recorded accurately by the equipment in the studio. It was overloading and distorting, but they didn't take that in properly.
Starting point is 02:54:37 Wasn't distortion what they wanted anyway? But when they listened back to the finished record, they realised what Kelgrin had been saying. The record sounded flat and over-distorted, and not like they wanted it to at all. The group were all unhappy with the finished production, but three of the members were particularly unhappy with the mix on one song. I heard her call my name.
Starting point is 02:55:53 The problem with that track, according to Kale, Tucker and Morrison, was that Reid had gone behind their backs and remixed it, boosting his own vocal. Morrison went so far as to briefly quit the group when he discovered what had been done. which he thought ruined one of the group's best songs. It's likely that Reid was encouraged in this
Starting point is 02:56:11 by the group's new manager, Steve Sessnick, who John Kale described as a real snake. Kale said of this period, Lou was calling us his band, while Sessnick was trying to get him to go solo. Maybe it was the drugs he was doing at the time. They certainly didn't help. Basically Sessnick just became an apologist for Lou.
Starting point is 02:56:30 He was just a yes man, and he came between us. It was maddening, just maddening, before it had always been easy to talk to Lou. Now you had to go through Sesnik, who seemed pretty practiced in the art of miscommunication. We should have been able to sort out our own problems. He should never have been brought in. Things have been bad between us for a while,
Starting point is 02:56:50 but when Sesnik arrived, they got worse. Despite these problems, though, the production on white light white heat has since been praised as an early example of lo-fi recording, and the Velvet Underground's mistake has since been intentionally embraced by generations of garage bands, something which, if nothing else, must have had some appeal for kale. As a big part of the avant-garde tradition he came out of
Starting point is 02:57:13 comes from John Cage's understanding of Zen, which says there is no such thing as a mistake. The album came out in early 1968, preceded by the title track, released as a single. Neither was a success, and 1968 was a tough year for the Velvet Underground in many ways. shortly after the release of the album, Tom Wilson left MGM, meaning they no longer had an advocate with the label.
Starting point is 02:58:06 Then in June, Andy Warhol was attacked by Valerie Salinas, a radical feminist writer and author of the Scum Manifesto, Scum standing for Society for Cutting Up Men. This manifesto argued for the replacement of the capitalist wage work system with what the kids today would call fully automated luxury communism, but also argued that all men are inherently genetically inferior and need to be eliminated for the good of womankind. Solanus was also convinced that Warhol,
Starting point is 02:58:36 to whom she had given a copy of a script she had written, which he had misplaced, was in a conspiracy to steal her ideas, and shot him. He was actually pronounced dead, but was later revived, though he had severe organ damage, had to wear a surgical trust for the rest of his life, and some have argued that the health problems that eventually led to his death 19 years later, could be traced back to, or at least were exacerbated by, the shooting. Reed was at first afraid to even phone Warhol in hospital, given how strained their relationship
Starting point is 02:59:07 was, but the two soon found themselves gossiping as if nothing had happened. Reed later talked about wanting to execute Solanas for what she'd done, and it also affected his attitudes to his own work. He said, I had to learn certain things the hard way, but one of those things I learned was work is the whole story. Work is literally everything. Most very big people seem to have enemies and seem to be getting shot, which is something a lot of people should keep in mind. There is a lot to be said for not being in the limelight. But the group struggled on and went back into the studio, first recording a relatively light poppy song, Temptation Inside a Heart, and then the more avant-garde, Hey Mr. Rain, on which
Starting point is 02:59:48 reads light-hearted melody and Kale's modal viola seem to almost be part of different records. That was left unreleased, and would be the last song Kale would record as a member of the band. Ever since Sessnick had become the group's manager, he had been working at the existing tensions between Mead and Kale's views of the band. Seznik had been convinced that the Velvet Underground could be the next Beatles, and he had even worked on Brian Epstein to try to get Epstein involved with their career, before Epstein's death. But he didn't believe that anything like that could happen while John Kale was in the band.
Starting point is 03:00:55 While all the band members made invaluable creative contributions to the records, the core of what made the band so exciting for listeners at the time was the way that Reid would write commercial, hooky, melodies and riffs, albeit with transgressive lyrics, but then Kale would twist those melodies in the arrangement, adding incongruous elements that made them sound different from any other band. But in Cessnick's view, it would be even better if they just had the commercial, hooky, melodies and riffs,
Starting point is 03:01:23 and he was starting to win Reed round. Reed, of course, had a long-standing relationship with Kale and had always been eager to incorporate his ideas. But also, it's very hard for even the least egotistical of people, something nobody has ever accused Reid of being, to resist being told that they're a genius and that everyone else is hanging onto their coat tails. It's even harder when you're struggling financially,
Starting point is 03:01:47 and someone points out that your ideas are the kind that will make money, while your collaborators' ideas are the kind that lose money. why not, just be the boss? Why shouldn't Reed just do things his way without Kale? This was a persuasive argument and says Nick needleed at Reed for months, exploiting every tiny interpersonal conflict. Eventually, Reed gave an ultimatum to Morrison and Tucker.
Starting point is 03:02:11 Either Kale went or he would. Morrison was given the task of delivering the news of his dismissal to Kale and never truly forgave Reed, who had previously been his closest friend in the group. Kale's last show with the group was in September 1968, and that month he also started work on another project. Danny Fields was by now managing Nico and she was about to record a second solo album,
Starting point is 03:02:35 her first made up of her own songs, which she started writing after Leonard Cohen had given her a harmonium. Fields asked Kale to act as arranger and de facto producer on the album. Fraser Mohawk, the credited producer, has said that he spent most of the sessions using heroines. and not paying attention. The album, the marble index, has been described as the first goth record,
Starting point is 03:02:59 and as the precursor to the experimental music Scott Walker would later do. According to Kale, when we finished it, I grabbed Lou and said, Listen to this, this is what we could have done. He was speechless. Kale and Nico more or less leave the episode here, but they'll be back in future episodes.
Starting point is 03:03:52 Meanwhile, the Velvet Underground had a new bass player, Doug Yule. was a very good musician, but a far more conventional one than Kale. He played melodically, and he also sang melodically, having a sweet voice. He was somewhat younger than the rest of the band, and looked up to Reed, and started copying his mannerisms, though Tucker always thought that Reed had little time for Yule as a person outside of work. The next album, just titled The Velvet Underground, isn't completely free of the band's more challenging side. Very few people will have thought of the nine-minute long track
Starting point is 03:04:26 the murder mystery as a hummable piece of bubble gum pop, for example. But on his eyes, Ned cut his nose off, slinkled his nose off, slinkled his string where his ears low, all the king's solaces and all the keys of red, swing whole mess is the end of the wires, the edge out of his eyes and the tip of the razor. But on the whole, it was much
Starting point is 03:05:10 prettier than the previous album. The album opens with Candy Says, a song about Candy Darling, a trans woman who was one of Warhol's superstars. Yule sings it gently, and Reid called it probably the best song I've written. That would actually be the last song Reed would sing in public,
Starting point is 03:06:04 in a performance in 2013 when he knew he was dying, performing with the Johnsons, whose singer Anoni came out publicly as Trans herself shortly afterwards. The album is, for the most part, gently melodic, and contains some of the band's most loved songs. Jesus shows that Kale wasn't the only one in the band to be influenced by the Everly Brothers harmonies. Pale Blue Eyes is actually a song that Reader demoed in 1965,
Starting point is 03:07:03 and it's quite astonishing that what became one of the group's most loved and most covered songs have been left off their first two albums. Sometimes I feel so sad Sometimes I feel so happy But mostly you just make me mad Baby you just make me mad And after hours features a rare lead vocal by Tucker
Starting point is 03:07:51 As Reid thought the song was too innocent and pure for his voice One two three If you close The door the night could last forever leave the sun shine out and say hello to never
Starting point is 03:08:11 all the people are dancing and they're having such fun I wish it could happen to me but if you close the door I'd never have to see the day again Sadly, no matter how commercial they had tried to make the record, it did even worse than its predecessor on the charts, even though it was released on the main MGM label,
Starting point is 03:08:37 rather than the Verve subsidiary. And once again there was a mixing issue. The band were all credited as co-producers on the album, but Reid supervised the final mix himself, and did the same thing that he'd done on I heard or call my name, pushing his own vocals up in the mix and moving the other musicians back. Sterling Morrison said the result sounded like was mixed in a closet. The album was pulled and replaced with another mix, approved of by the other
Starting point is 03:09:03 members, which has become the standard version of the album. Though Reed's version, labelled the closet mix, has been included as a bonus on some expanded reissues of it. Morrison was by this point utterly sick of Lou Reed. Between his shenanigans with the mixes and him getting Morrison to do his dirty work, Morrison had no time frame at all anymore, and would barely speak to him for the rest of the group's career. With the failure of the Velvet Underground, the group decided they needed a new record label. This was especially true since MGM had just taken on a new CEO, Mike Kerb, who was obsessed with the bottom line, and who was also shortly to be given an award by President Nixon for his work in cleaning up music and getting rid of drug-influenced lyrics.
Starting point is 03:09:49 They started looking for another label, but they still owed MGM 14 tracks, so shortly after the release of DeValvert Underground, they went back into the studio with a returning Gary Kellgren and cut an album that they already knew was likely not to be released. It says something about the group that this album, the tracks from which didn't come out until the 1980s, is still a solid record with several tracks that are now regarded as classics. Lisa Says was one of several songs from the album that Reid would later reuse for his first solo album. While I'm sticking with you, another song with a Mo Tucka lead version, would be used as a basis for an entire career by about a million Tui indie pop bands in the 90s and early 2000s.
Starting point is 03:11:02 The album wasn't released as they knew it wouldn't be, and the group moved on to Atlantic Records. But by this point, Seznik had been up to his tricks again. Doug Yule had quickly become a hugely popular member of the band. He had a pleasant voice, he was good-looking, and unlike the other members he would do the traditional rock musician act on stage, and he'd also idolised Reid so much that he picked up a lot of Reed's mannerisms and attitudes, including his desire to be in charge. Sessnik started to wonder if the Velvet Underground really needed Lou Reed. Reed was a difficult man to work with, and Yule was far more playable. Seznik started to manipulate Yule in exactly the same way he'd previously manipulated
Starting point is 03:12:17 Reid, talking about how he was the star and should be the leader. Yule was in an even better position when it came to recording the next album, loaded. Tugger had got pregnant and couldn't physically reach the drums in her normal position because her belly was in the way. She had to take maternity leave, and in her place came Doug's brother Billy, who drummed the band for six dollars a day, though several other people also provided drum tracks for the album, none of whom could replicate Mo Tucker's sound. Sterling Morrison was on the album, but by this point he was also a part-time student,
Starting point is 03:12:52 and for large parts of the album left Reed and Yule to get on with it. The result is arguably the closest thing the group ever did to a commercial record. Rock and Rolls shows there's less distinction between the Velvets and Bruce Springsteen than fans of either might want to admit. Who loves the sun? with Doug Yule on lead, showed that Reed hadn't forgotten the songwriting lessons he'd internalized when he was making Beach Boys knockoff years earlier.
Starting point is 03:14:29 And Sweet Jane became one of the group's most covered songs. The album was meant to be a fresh start for the group, but by the time they finished recording it, Reed was out of the band. Reed said later, There were a lot of things going on that summer. Internally, within the band, the situation, the milieu, and especially the management.
Starting point is 03:15:23 Situations that could only be solved by as abrupt a departure as possible once they had made the decision. I just worked out because we didn't have any money. I didn't want to tour again. I can't get any writing done on tour, and the grind is terrible. And I'd wondered for a long time
Starting point is 03:15:37 if we were ever going to be accepted on a large scale. Words can't do justice to the world. way I got worked over with the money. The group were playing again in New York. They had a residency at Maxis Kansas City, Andy Warhol's favourite nightclub, during the recording of Loaded. Richard Polk, one of Warhol's superstars, happened by pure coincidence to record the night of Reid's last gig. Even more coincidentally, Mo Tucker had decided to turn up to watch her bandmates perform. Reed hadn't told any of the band members that he was quitting, and she was the first. he told. The others only found out when Reed's parents came to pick him up. They were taking
Starting point is 03:16:49 him back to Long Island. When Lodd had came out, Reed found that Yule had done what the other band members had always been upset at Reed for doing. He'd radically remixed and edited several of Reed's songs without telling him. The group struggled on without Reed for a while. Moe did return after her maternity leave, but first Morrison left the group and then says Nick fired everyone except Doug Yule. The final Velvet Underground album, Squeeze, which came out in 1973, is a Doug Yule solo album, with
Starting point is 03:17:20 Yule playing everything except the drums, which are played by Ian Pace of deep purple, and a little bit of saxophone. Doug Yule hated the final mix of the album, which was done by Steve Sessnick, who ignored his input. There's one final anecdote about the group
Starting point is 03:18:09 that's worth telling, though. I'm going to quote an English fan here, talking about a gig he attended. I was singing along with the band, stuck right there at the apron of the stage, waiting for the man, white light, white heat, heroin, all that kind of stuff. And then after the show I went backstage and I knocked on the door. And I said, is Lou Reed in? I'd love to talk to him, and from England, because I'm in music too. And he's a bit of a hero to me.
Starting point is 03:18:33 This guy said, wait here. And Lou comes out, and we sat talking on the bench for about a quarter of an hour about writing songs, and what it's like to be Lou Reed and all that. and afterwards I was floating on a cloud and went back to my hotel room. I said to this guy that I knew in New York, I've just seen the Velvet Underground and I got to talk with Lou Reed for 15 minutes. And he said, Yeah?
Starting point is 03:18:55 Lou Reed left the band last year, I think you've been done. I said, it looked like Lou Reed. And he said, that's Doug Yule. He's the guy that took over from Lou Reed. I thought, what an imposter. Wow, that's incredible. It doesn't matter really, because I still talk to Lou Reed as far as I was concerned. David Bowie, who told that anecdote, was inspired by the idea that a fake rocker could be a real one.
Starting point is 03:19:19 That was the missing piece he needed to go with his thoughts about Vince Taylor and a rock and roll Messiah. Soon after that meeting, he created Ziggy Stardust. A history of rock music and 500 songs is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Each week, Patreon Backers will get a 10-minute bonus podcast. this week's is on Why Don't You Smile Now? By the Downliner's Sacked Visit patreon.com
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