Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Chicago: Tires, Rain & Racing Ethics

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Denny Hamlin and Jared Allen are back after a long Sunday in Chicago. Denny explains why he continues to struggle racing in the rain. Racing ethics went out the window during the last few laps (4:20). They also discussed good decision-making when NASCAR told the teams they were racing the clock (15:30). But why didn't NBC move the race up (20:50)?Josh Berry's caution on lap 51 proved to be a game-changer (25:00). Denny explains what went wrong for Tyler Reddick (26:50) and Bubba Wallace's frustration with Alex Bowman, that culminated in a run-in on the cooldown lap (34:20).Denny dives into why it's good for the sport to race in Chicago (39:00) before discussing if being friends and co-owners with Michael Jordan has influenced his competitiveness (43:50). Will we see more racing against the clock in the future (52:24)? Plus, Alex Bowman's 80-race winless streak is snapped but should not be considered a fluke.For ore Actions Detrimental content, head over to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I believe that I've been a competitive ass for 20 years. I don't want to beat you. I want to put my foot on your throat. And, you know, so I just, that's the way I've always been. I would say Michael did not have a big influence on my competitive nature. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Hey guys, welcome to action's detrimental. Ow, that hurt Charlie.

This is not going to be a rose color glasses show. Pleading with NASCAR, who I guarantee you is listening to this. It was warm and then it was cold. But I kind of liked it. The 11, D.H. We're all in. We're going all the way to Promises. Hey guys, welcome to Action's Decremantle on Denny Hamlin,

drive the number 11 sport clips to go to this past weekend in Chicago. And my co-host is Jared Allen, wearer of Red Vest 311. All right. Where do we start with Chicago? I mean, where can you possibly start, right? I feel coming down here this morning more exhausted than any other weekend. I don't even know why. To be the shortest race in quite some time, I don't know if it's in history or, you know, 50 laps. I can't recall another race being ever that short again, right? You ran 50 or 60? I don't even know.

58, right? 58. Okay. Yeah. I barely ran all 58. I was going to say, I didn't see you on TV. Yeah, I came down here and said, to be honest, Travis, I don't really know what happened in Denny's race yesterday. He's like, well, he wasn't even on TV at all.

I shouldn't have been. Yeah, it was, I had like three laps of, of, uh, hero ball. Like when the track was actually fully dry. on lap through lap 13 through 16 top three fastest time every lap just haul in the mail and then rain came again and then i went right back to where i was in the 20s why is it what makes it rain like so difficult for you because you're you're good at like saving tires and yeah the same kind of elements on other racetracks but the rain just yeah it's just it's way out of my element i'm not sure um i can't find the limit on corner braking on entry. The minute I tried to push it is when you saw me

turned around backwards and turned six and took nearly just wiped the 47 clean out. I looked at his car after we got done after we got back straight again and his left side of his bumper was bent down like three inches or something. It was he was big. I'm like oh God just crushes race and he just talked to me in my I was in the in my car during one of the rain delays well the biggest rain delay kind of in the middle of the race there he's like so these conditions where do you break online offline I'm like I don't know and then he texts me after the race said I guess you should have broke offline so I'm glad he got a good finish and I didn't completely ruin the 47s day but it all worked out in the end

because at the end, the two car, again, two weeks in a row, he got me at the end. This one was a little different. It was interesting thing, though, and I haven't gone back and looked at it yet. But, you know, I was still going to get, you know, I was going to finish in the late teens somewhere in that range. And then they said the nine was behind you. And then I got, I mean, I just got wiped out like I wiped out the 47. And they said, the two got you. I said, where did he come from?

He wasn't even in the picture. you were telling me what was behind me. So I talked to him after the race. He said he just kind of locked up his tires and, you know, sent me. It knocked me into the 33 Austin Hill. So he was going to have a decent day as well. And yeah, it just ping ponged us right into the fence there. It seemed like just utter chaos those last like five laps.

Yeah. And, you know, what's kind of crappy to see, right, is it seems like ethics goes out the window a little bit. I mean, we saw it a little bit. I mean, every corner, like I kept gaining a spot because somebody would ship someone in the corner and just send them into the tire barriers. So, you know, because they knew that the end was getting near, right? And I just wonder, like, is that, is it really kind of worth it to do that? You know, you're going to have some guys pissed off at you and whatnot. There's one thing of, you know, making a mistake going in the corner. I made a mistake. The two made a mistake when he took us out at the end.

But it's another, like what I saw guys just deliberately knocking each other into the tire barriers. And it was like, man, that's just not a great look. I think I saw it again at the end with the 99 and the 9. It looked like the 99 was making a move on someone else. And the 9 knocked him into turn 11. And the 99 stayed close enough to the 9 where he's like, okay, you're, you're going to see the check of flag, but you're not going to see it coming from the right direction. So he spun out the nine in the last corner. So, yeah, it's just, it's tough.

It's like, really, are those one spots worth it? I mean, you know, it's just for every person, I guess it's probably a little different. But, but, yeah, it just seems like the last few laps was very chaotic. And a lot of that came from the alternate tire strategy. as well. You know, there was 10 or 11 of us that had on wet tires. Everyone else pitted for slicks. So slick tires were really starting to come up to the front, you know, with about four to five to go because the track had fully dried out. So that was, it was interesting for sure. Poor Chicago and NASCAR can't get a break with the weather. You know, I was really looking for. forward to this thing in the dry. I felt pretty, you know, pretty strong. This is two years in row

that in the dry I felt pretty good. I really felt like I had good speed. And then this comes, but just for the fans' sake and NASCAR's sake, it's like you never really, at least they got all in all the other stuff, you know, before the race, the concerts and a lot of the activation that happened in the midway there. So it was good to see that that, at least, least got accomplished. Talk to Steve Phelps before the race. He's like, man, the one thing we don't want is rain or is lightning, right? Because then you're going to have to make everyone leave the premises and then come back in.

Right. And he said, they're just not going to come back in. So at least we didn't have the lightning. At least it was just rain. And yeah, we kind of saw a hybrid race, right? It was moments in the dry. I think total combined laps of full dry racetrack might have been eight laps total. other times it was damp and then other times it was really, really wet.

So just the changing conditions is what throws me for loop and no one hates sucking worse than I do. You know, I'm trying to figure out, well, how can I fix it? I'm wondering any of those who want to get into my mentions right now, let me know how irasings wet weather is because I've seen, you know, lot of guys that race professionally racing in the wet weather on i racing and um it seems like you know they think it's somewhat accurate i just need something somewhat accurate right because it you know we can't simulate that in our world your sim doesn't have it the toyota that you guys

use no it it doesn't and you know to make something work it would just it would just take so much work to do it and it's you know again you have to be smart with your resources right so you don't you know and i heard chris gavehart bring this up with kevin harvick um last i think it was a couple weeks ago he's like you know when kevin's like well what do you do with denny in the wet now like it's clearly a weakness um and he's like i i don't think we do anything i think we focus on what we're good at versus trying to spend time and effort on trying to get better, you know, at something that you're not. At this stage of my career, I would say. So, you know, how many more wet weather tracks will we have over the next three to four years, right?

Or whatever. Does the championship run through wet weather? Likely not, right? So I just think that it sucks because I'm getting finishes right now. I don't know. I don't know how much effort to really put in into it to get better. There's clearly, you know, a handful of guys. They're very, very, very good at it.

And so I at least have information from them that I can study to try to get better. But it's just finding the limit. Like I just, I look at it and I study SMT and I'm like, okay, I'm just not pushing the corner entry quite hard enough. And then second I do, I go. I'm 100 yards too deep and I'm backwards into Ricky Stenhouse. Does the breaking point change each lap in each corner as the track continues to dry a little bit? Yes, and that is the challenge, right? It's so interesting.

I just went back and I watched the race and it's more clear on TV how dry the track is than it is inside the car. I can't see. It looks all wet to me. and so it's very interesting that it does change right and as as drivers that are really good at it get used to okay here's how hard I can push it in the full wet here's how hard I push it in the damp here's how I'm identifying whether the tracks dry or damp like that's where I just really need to get better at and understanding and I think it's more just asking a lot of questions to my teammates versus, you know, do another thing. So I think that, you know, there's a lot of

opportunity to get better there. It's just how much do, how much do I really want to invest in it? Right. So is it a feel thing? Because I can't imagine that like Christopher Bell can see the track much better than you in those situations, right? So like, why is he better? Is he just feeling it more? Yeah, it could be. Could be, could be that he is feeling it quite a bit better. I mean, I feel comfortable that I'm on the limit of the tire and the grip mid-corner out. Like, I feel like I'm getting all I can get there. But it's just the corner entry that I don't have good marks at quite yet. You know, the problem was a little different for myself at New Hampshire.

I felt like I did start making gains on corner entry, but then I tried to make the corner on the exit. My car just absolutely plowed to the fence. So I don't know. I think that it was kind of 50-50 car me on that one. But it just, man, it sucks to not be better at it because I feel like the slicker the conditions, the better off I would be. But it is just so different because I know if I carry it 100 feet deeper, that's 100 feet

too deep. I'm locking up and I'm nosing it in like Larson did. We see rain more and more I feel like each year. And so couldn't you still like in the office? or find some time to devote a little bit of time so that like let's say this past weekend if you would have finished you know 15th those points that it ends up being a little more important maybe than no i mean listen all races are are are equal in the sense of like you know what do they mean to the regular season um we only have a couple wet weather tracks left on our schedule i think

there might be one or two. So I don't know. Well, what am I going to be able to test? They won't, you know, you can't test these cars. So you could test like a Trans Am car, which would be, probably be somewhat helpful. But yeah, then you're just looking, trying to find a weekend somewhere that's going to be wet. So yeah, that's the challenge of it. It looks like there's a 33% chance on Wednesday. So maybe Wednesday. Go up to VIR. That'd be a good idea.

That's a place you could. You just, I got to find a car and I got to find what weather and then a coach. It's interesting to say that, Travis, because it seems like now that NASCAR continues to get better and better at racing in the rain, that this is going to be something for the up and coming generation to actually practice. Yeah. And you see some of the best ones are some of the youngest guys because they had that experience. And I had heard Kevin Harvick say that his son, it used to be when it would rain, he would just,

they'd be loading up on the trailer and going home. Now his son, they put on their wet driver suit, wet tires, and they continue to race. So, yeah, it is certainly an advantage to the younger generation starting to get more reps doing it, right now. How more difficult was it with visibility once the rain started coming down? Well, yeah, that was, that was sketchy. That one lap that we ran, that it was in full rain and the track was soaked. That was too much. It was spray. A good rule of thumb, right, is that NASCAR can use the camera at the end of the front straightaway. If it could, can only, if that camera can only spot two cars, it's too wet. I mean, it, yeah, it's too wet. And,

and so what happens is none of us could see nothing. I couldn't see where the corner was. I couldn't see anything. All I saw was blinking red lights. And I'm hoping those blinking red lights are going the right direction. And they're following someone else's blinking red light. So it's just, that was definitely too much. And, and, and it, and it, looks like the rule of thumb is if there's puddles on the track if it literal puddles it's too much you can't do it because the spray is just it's blinding it was funny uh i was standing in the sweet area during that big rain delay and i think that's when they announced that the race would go until 820 or at least that's when they announced the race at the beginning okay so maybe just word was

getting around at that point. But someone has had someone to ask, you know, they're having a conversation amongst ourselves. Why are we going to 820? Aren't there enough like track lights out there? Isn't there like the lights on the streets of Chicago and like don't these cars have headlights? Like I see lights on the on the rear of the cars. Like why can't they, why can't they see? It's just the visibility is, it's tough. And especially at a street course like Chicago, there's just no room for error. There's no runoff. like you would see at other tracks. And yeah, it just, what would happen is the darker it gets, the more pronounced the strobe lights would be, which actually they had to turn them off towards the end of the race because they are pretty blinding in normal conditions.

So I think that it's just not possible. You know, I looked, I had a good view from my hotel kind of the straightaway from six to seven there. And yeah, there were some orange streetlights. There was. That's just not enough. It's not enough to run. So, yeah, it's unfortunate. You know, we...

How dark was it at the end? Could you guys have gone longer or was it getting pretty dark? Yeah, we probably could have gone, you know, a few laps longer. But NASCAR, you know, it's better to set a time from the beginning to let everyone know. this is what we're up against is this this time right here so i think that was the right call it was what they intended um they made sure they made it very aware to all the crew chiefs because the the instance happened at loud new hampshire where um i know our crew chief messaged up to the tower saying hey when's your stop dead time like it's getting dark what tells us give us an

idea so we can work our strategy or you know have our urgency stepped up at the right time and they were like it's TBD, it's going to be close, whether they make it to the end. So I think from that point, teams reached out to NASCAR and says, just give us a time. You know, use, you know, nautical, whatever, you know, daylight and use that as your time that at least we can, we know what we're up against and we can plan accordingly. So did this time that NASCAR set severely impact the team's strategy like last year in Chicago, right? They were just like, okay, we're only racing to lap 80 now and it kind of threw the strategy through a loop. Was this better? Yes, this was better because the teams were planning for this well in advance. I think last year the problem was we got

such short notice. Like I can't remember, but I just remember being caught off guard saying, whoa, wait a minute. There's five laps to go. So I think that this certainly was better. I mean, I see, you know, do you then forego the end of stage two caution maybe? But then, I mean, you're starting to make up rules as you go. And I don't know. I think that they didn't need to change any more rules, especially mid-race for this one. I understand that we wanted to see more green flag racing. I totally get that and I understand what the people.

people want to see. But you have to keep the integrity of what, you know, this, this race. And here's the rules we set forth. And, you know, changing them mid-race is just, it loses a little bit of legitimacy, in my opinion. So I think they did the right thing by throwing that caution, even though it's not the best for the show. What about the beginning, before the race starts, you announced the start, the end time. Okay, we know it's going to be short end weather. No caution break or no stage breaks do it before the race starts and get rid of them well they didn't know that they were going to be up against the time right because they they weren't planning for that hour and a half break in the middle of the race right so had that not happened then you were to got the full race distance

in i think this is probably more of a broader topic Travis on start times right um you know i think that we are chasing ratings so much that we're trying to get in this perfect window and it's just not allowing for for these types of things to happen. So, I mean, we were, I mean, we were one more, think about this, one more rain cell away, and it was closed, one more rain cell away from being done at wherever we were at, lap, yeah, 25, 30, whatever. You hadn't even hit in the halfway mark at that point. I know, so then what do you do?

Just do like you do at Xfinity last year and say, well, we ran 15 laps. that's an official race. Like that's the thing. We just, we had decent weather all day, right up until 2.30, 3 o'clock. And so that's your primetime thunderstorm times of the day. And just what you hope, right, is that perhaps with the new partners coming in with Amazon and Turner, they're a little more flexible with, you know, certainly Amazon will be, right? because it doesn't matter about them hitting a live TV window.

I've had these conversations with Amazon. They're not going to be limited pre and post race like others will, right? They want you to just keep it tuned in. So they're going to be more apt to be, I think, more flexible with their schedule than others that, you know, have Chicago fire coming up right after. You know what I mean? Yeah, and so NBC had IndyCar before NASCAR. So moving it up probably was going to be difficult. Now Amazon has the flexibility, but they still know what time does the best.

So you wonder how willing are they to move up a whole lot though? I don't know. I just have a gut feeling that they're willing to be more flexible to avoid delays. That's what I would predict. So I mean, again, if you had a magic wand and you didn't care about ratings as much, you know or hitting this perfect window you would have started that race at 12 o'clock right i mean the weather was we're looking at the forecast it was going to be fine until three o'clock when the race started so um you had an opportunity there to have a disruption free race and one that you know

the fans could have enjoyed you know a lot of green um you know no weather so that in fact and impacts your midways as well. The only thing that is a question, and again, I'm educated about 5% on how the show actually happens in Chicago. But I think, you know, some of the workers there are kind of union workers as well. So getting them there early, I don't know how all that would work. So there's a lot of red tape that surely has to go into, you know, making the decision to keep it where it's at.

but, you know, we rolled the dice. We had a wet weather package. They, you know, we hoped for no lightning. We got no lightning. But it just, these cars just cannot run in rain. That's the challenge. Rain is just no good. Damp, all good.

Rain, no good. You got to remember, too, that when it comes to the timing and start of the race, this is also a unique event in that the Chicago Street course is not solely about the racing, right? They had concerts planned, pre-race. like there's all these festivities to create this event for the fans that came to the track, that it wasn't strictly about the cars on track. That's right. That's right.

Yeah, similar to F1 in that sense. I mean, it's very, very different than that. But, you know, I got to, you know, experience the one in Las Vegas. And, yeah, the race was just a very small part of the week I spent out there, right? It was all the parties, the hospitality, things like that, that really made. made it fun. It was a social gathering. That's what you saw here. This is a social gathering with a race. Speaking of, did you notice one similarity between the Vegas F1 event and this race? What? Is it that paddock? Oh, oh yeah. Very, very, very similar. Yes. Yeah, it is. And certainly, I mean, like F1's paddock club is on another level. It is really, really nice.

but it is. I think that they did, I think Julie Gase just props to her. She just did a phenomenal job with this whole Chicago race and just everything that they did. She deserves a lot of credit

for putting this on and doing it the right way. You saw extra hospitality over in turn seven to turn eight. We saw these buses and trailers with extra hospitality that were getting used. So there was one down the backstretch I saw as well.

So, yeah, they're certainly doing it right. Going back to discussing should there have been stage breaks and whatnot, we actually, this race nearly played out the way you would have wanted it to with the slick tire cars catching the leaders at the end of the time of the Tyler Reddick and Alex Bowman, had there not been that Josh Berry caution that cut off two to three laps right there at the end. Ifs and butts.

yeah certainly um i thought that you heard radio transmission from all i was part of the wet weather thing you know tire guys so we were going to fade no matter what anyway because the track was drying pretty quickly um in retrospect now that i'm looking at it um but yes it was going to be close on wet weather tires holding up the distance with that track drying so quickly So it was. You saw, I think I saw probably, whenever that Josh Berry caution came out, it was... Not 51, I believe. Okay, so six to go, roughly.

Yeah. Like the top 11, 12, except for C. Bell, were all wet. And then by the end of the race, they showed it when Tyler Redick was running down Bowman. There was like a couple wet weather tires left in the... the top 10 and then everyone else had just faded. So it was, it was such a hybrid situation where, you know, one worked for the short time, one worked for the long time. And I think that's what kind of Goodyear is hoping that would, you know, it's going to happen at Richmond right when they have that option tire here in the fall. What did you make of Reddix, um, trying to track him

down and hitting the wall there. Did you go back and see that? I did. Um, it's a bummer. I thought he was going to get there, especially as quickly as he was running him down. But yeah, fundamentals. Fundamentals is to finish first, you must first finish. And so I think it's just, you know, he's going to be tough on himself, but he's trying everything he can. He's probably thinking at that point, he's got two more legit passing opportunities, right? He wasn't going to get, he wasn't going to be close enough off of turn five where he hit the wall to get him into turn six so there was two more options likely two options is one was going to be into turn seven over the bridge and into turn seven and the other one was going to be the very last corner

because you would think well there's another one in turn 11 there but the bottom was wet and he was on slick tires and that probably wasn't going to work unless he was willing it's just clean out. So I think that he probably panicked on, you know, counting down passing opportunities left in this final lap and he was down to two. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you is that at the time, if there was really only one dry lane on the track, where was he going to go to pass? Yeah, he could have to hold it tight enough. I looked and the track was, if you held all the cars like right up against each other, I thought it was like two and a half to three lanes. lanes wide of enough dry but yeah I mean it would have been a fight for sure the 48 likely would

have kind of blocked and try to keep them in the wet but you know the 45 was coming so quickly I just think he was going to get there with a shot in the last few corners but obviously didn't work out was this progress though on NASCAR's part to let you all decide if you wanted slick or wet tires we you know we talked about that with allowed in last week. Yeah, it's two weeks ago. Two weeks ago? The choice for the drivers.

Yeah, I certainly think that it was, they're creeping into it, right? They're dipping their toes in it. And so, yeah, I thought that this was another step in the direction of, you know, leaving it in the team's hands. I want to go back to before the decision to get the slick tires, they pitted right before the end of the stage two ending. And it was because some other people went in first. had Bell Reddick and those guys pitted a lap earlier and not been their forced hand,

do you think they would have been in a better position? Yeah, I knew this question was coming, you know, just mentally thinking about this. But I think people were still on the fence, and they were, right? The field split whether they were going to stay on the wets for the remaining 10 laps, or do you go ahead and pit, take your dries, and then really make a big charge? So I think that the track was still wet enough at the end of stage two that wet weather tires were the best. I think they were the best tires. Now, I think that's what the 20 and the 54 were on, but maybe not.

But anyway, if they weren't, then they would have just stayed out. I think they were on wet and then they switched to slicks at that point. So I think the field was still split. That's why you didn't see as many people jump the stage at the end of stage two as what you normally would is that the field was still split on what the right choice was. It's just stay out on the wets for these last remaining laps or go to slick. What goes into that decision? Because if you roughly know when the race is going to end and how many laps they'll be run, right? The engineers are trying to figure that out mathematically.

What goes into that decision is switch to slicks or stay on wets because if Bell and the 54 car went to slicks because they thought that was the right move, you also had Bowman thinking, oh, our only chance to win this race was to stay on wets. That's right. Yeah, because they know if Bowman, you know, we were in the same position, right?

We had finished 10th on stage because everyone else had pitted to jump the stage and then put the slick tires on for the end. that's what got us into the top 10 at the end of that stage. Well, at that point, if I come in and Chris puts me on Slicks, I'm going to start 30th, and we've got eight laps to go. So I think that the track was just wet enough where Chris was like, I think Slicks is the right, I mean, I think Wets is the right play for you in this situation, but the track just dried rapidly at the very, very end.

And clearly slicks were way, way faster. And probably would have dried faster, too, had we not had caution laps, right? Right. Yeah. It does. You know, certainly the heat from the tires and the exhaust and things like that, definitely dry the track, you know, pretty quickly. So, yeah, certainly without a caution, you're, I mean, a caution takes up.

It seems like 10 minutes. Like, it just feels like, you know, so three laps. There was three laps for Barry. So at probably three minutes, I'm guessing it does the guess. It takes us three minutes to get around the racetrack, maybe four under caution. It was about, so that's like 10, 12 minutes. So that's a lot of, you know, that's, oh boy. It's like six or seven more laps of green that you would have seen.

I think Reddick would have liked to have six more laps. Yeah, I don't think you would have made that mistake in turn five. He would have been a little more level-headed on having enough time. If there was six to go, he was not going to cut that wall that close. Did caution seem like they took a longer to get back to green? It did for me watching. A little bit. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know what all is going on in race control, you know, what they're having to organize and whatnot. But it's, you know, trust me, race control is a thankless job. and it's hard to get right all the time. But more than likely, they're trying to get this thing going as quick as possible because of the 58 racing laps that we ran yesterday, 30 were under green maybe? That's a stretch maybe. So it just didn't feel like a lot.

When you wreck, are you encouraged to get the car moving again in a timely manner? Does NASCAR go over that pre-race with you in the driver's meeting? Yeah, we don't want to have to throw Right. Caution, these full course caution to get your car going. Yeah, I mean, I tried to and I had it going, but then I stalled it when I spun around, and then it would not refire.

So, yeah, we want to get it going because we know that NASCAR's not going to throw a caution in all likelihood. So, yeah, you want to, you're trying as a driver to get the thing going. And I thought everyone did a good job of getting it going when they could. We had some drama in this race between drivers. I actually saw you, you know, as you make your way out of the track, you know, do your, Cindrick. To have a talk with him up.

Here's Austin Hill. Have a little talk with him. But the one that's taking over social media is Bubba and Bowman. Bowman getting into Bubba earlier in the race, which took him out of a top 10 running spot and then Bubba making contact with him on the cool down laps. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how NASCAR is going to view it. So how this is different than, let's say, Carson Hotsvar is that one is under yellow. And under yellow, that means that there is an unsafe condition and there are safety vehicles on the racetrack. At the end of the race, there are no safety vehicles on the racetrack and it's not a unsafe

condition. There's not a driver's safety issue. So I don't know how they'll view it. And the other also is that you, you know, Carson spun someone under yellow and it cost them positions and damage their car. So that hurt Harrison Burton for the rest of the race. This was, the race was over. He took a swipe at Bowman and, you know, I think Bowman underplated it a little bit in the media. But yeah, I don't know how they'll view it.

it, I think that they could go either way with this because it's just, it is different than wrecking someone under caution. While you try to draw, I think people that don't like Bubba will, we'll try to draw conclusions into it one way, and people that support Bubba will see it in an entirely different way, and I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, but certainly I think that they are different simply because of the safety aspect of, being under caution versus being the end of the race. There's no safety vehicles out there.

Everyone's running slow speeds. So I don't know where they go with this. He'll probably get a talking to, maybe get a fine or something, but that'd be all that I think comes to this. Here's what Bowman said NASCAR should not penalize Bubba. He barely hit me. Everything was fine and it was plenty deserved. Yeah, I mean, I think Bowman's taking the high road there.

It's easy when he just won. Yeah, he's feeling. good and and I think that he's taking the high road there knowing that he made a mistake early on and he's trying to repay that mistake through comments in the media that's that would be my feeling and gut on it if anything the just the optics don't help they they just handed down a fine for something similar or at least that fans would look at yeah all of these things are judgment calls right I mean we see it all the time I mean I got into the back of Larson under caution at at Nashville, right? And, you know, we, we make contact with each other under caution. Most times,

if you, if you were there in the race and you're looking for something, you're going to find two drivers that are trying to send a message to each other under caution a lot of times. It's just sometimes the camera's on you, sometimes the camera's not. Most of the time the camera's not. The people only see where the camera's focused in that moment. And likely if it's a, if it's someone in 20-something, they really don't care about that contact, you know, and so they're not going to put it on TV. But this happens all the time, and especially after races as well, you know, you won't be able to find one race that somebody didn't go up and knock somebody sideways after the race was over to voice their displeasure. So it's very common. I don't agree with

it, but I'm guilty of it as well. Does 2311 send NASCAR any sort of stuff? Or you just wait to see the decision and then present reasons why there shouldn't be a fine or anything? I think that it starts with a conversation more than likely. More than likely, Elton Sawyer in this instance, would reach out to Bubba, have a conversation with him, have a conversation with Alex. That's typically how they say they want to do it. they didn't necessarily do that in mine and Ross's chase instance at Phoenix. You know, they kind of just took our word for it here on the podcast.

But they said typically what they want to do is if there's an incident involving two drivers, retaliation or what have you, they'll reach out to both parties to get the facts, and then they'll make a decision from there. So if anything, again, if they view this egregious, that's what they would do. And that's a big if. What do you make of the whole Chicago race weekend as a whole? How does NASCAR evaluate this this week,

considering last year was completely rained out and then they had rain on Sunday this year? How do they evaluate Chicago? Is this a success? Is there a momentum to build on for next year? I think so. I think that the weekend is a success. It would be hard for me to argue, and again, I know 5% of it, but from the city's standpoint,

how can you argue against that this is better for your economy? You know, we go into a hotel that's kind of a little bit off the beaten path, and they said, let me guess, y'all are here for NASCAR. And we were like, yeah, and they were like, yep, everyone that's been checking in is here for NASCAR. And so, you know, that's good for the economy, right? It spurs the economy. And what are we all doing on Saturday? We're going shopping.

And so, you know, we're using the commerce at our hand there. And we're giving back. And it's just there are a lot of NASCAR fans there that we're visiting from other places that normally wouldn't go to Chicago, you know. But it's a destination city. and it's got their favorite sport participating in it. So they made the travel. So I think certainly it would be interesting to see what is the economic impact of us coming to the city

because I believe it is a good thing for it. For the city, but for NASCAR, are they getting what they wanted to get out of it? I do. I think that this crowd is different than our normal NASCAR crowd that, that comes to say Darlington or what have you. I think, you know, when I looked at the fans coming in the gates with a very diverse crowd, ones that, you know, we're going to a NASCAR race for the very first time.

When I went to the Toyota hospitality and did a Q&A, the fans, it just, this was a different group and a group that had not been exposed to NASCAR before. And so I think that that's why they should deem it a positive and it just takes a couple of them going to a race to enjoy it to then latch on to the sport. What about 2311? You talked about this being a race that 2311 treats as a home track because it's Chicago and the ties to Michael Jordan.

Yeah, certainly the activation that 2311 did was just second to none. I mean, our poor drivers, I tried to give them a shout out on social media, but then I've talked to Tyler during one of our driver intro things. And he was like, man, I didn't mind it at all. Like, it was fun to me. The things we did were fun. And I'm like, man, that's what I like to hear. You know, because, you know, we had him going from 7 a.m. in the morning to, you know,

seven at night. And so, you know, I think it was probably eight or nine total stops for both of our drivers just on Friday alone. And, you know, I, I said this, you know, privately to someone else, but I'll say it. This is kind of our frustration with NASCAR and not necessarily NASCAR, but Jim France in general, that thinks that we just show up and put cars on a racetrack. Like, we're doing so much to grow our sport, but yet every negotiation that comes around, it's, well, we're not locking arms and we're not growing the sport together.

And it's like, what do you think we're doing? like you know so it's just it was really good to see you know how much activation they did and 2311 treating this as a home race for them right you know our drivers put a lot of emphasis on it uh both drivers had a lot of speed throughout the entire weekend and you know nearly got the win i mean yeah you nearly had the jumpman car in victory lane in chicago nearly uh i know that listen i know Tyler wanted it so, so bad. You know, that's, and like last year, I thought he was in control of the race when he drove it into the tire barriers and turned six, but, you know, he just wants it bad, right?

And so sometimes when you push the edge as much as he does, that's what makes you fast, and it also makes you, makes mistakes. So it's just part of racing. I felt for him because he came in here last week and said, I finished second like 13 times or something. And now it's 14. I know. Dear Denny, we've got some questions that we want to ask.

Dear Denny, we need answers and we need them fast. We tried to ask Junior, but his answers were lame. And with DBC, it was more of the same. Now we're caught on you because you're our only hope. This ain't the race track, so maybe you won't choke. Dear Denny for you. Brad Dardy noted that he believes Michael Jordan's historic and well-documented competitiveness

has influenced your competitiveness. What role do you believe he's genuinely had in your competitive evolution? Hmm. What a question. Well thought out. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years.

I just, I do. I, you know, I've always been a fan of Michaels, it's really why I watched the NBA back in the 80s and 90s when I was much younger. It was just, we watched Michael Jordan games. That's, that's, that's the only time we watched basketball if it was on primetime television and Michael Jordan was playing. So it, it wasn't until, like, when I say recently, like a decade or so ago that we actually understood Michael's competitive nature, right?

It's the it's the documentaries that really the last dance that you're like, holy cow, he was a psycho when it comes to being competitive. And of course,

you know, social media just came about, you know, in 2010 or 12, you got, you know, Twitter comes along and now people

are starting to share stories and Instagram comes along and people are sharing their stories of, of their moments with Microsoft. where he was very competitive, you know, beyond basketball.

And so it just recently were we educated about this. I have been this way for all I can remember. I remember my grandmother used to have to just settle me down if I didn't win in Put Putt. I mean, it's interesting I say Puttut because we did it with the Barstool guys this weekend. I just have been this asshole for a long time. I mean, to paint a picture, you were leading this put-put game by, I don't know, eight strokes or something. And Spider had gotten Taylor's, you know, go mess with your dad and maybe help us out here. He gets a couple strokes.

So, you know, Denny's going through his putt and Taylor's like grabbing the putter or like making noise in the back swing. Danes like, stop. Like, he's up eight strokes in putt putt, but there's not matter. There's nothing on the line. It's like, Taylor, knock it off. I mean, I don't want to. beat you, I want to put my foot on your throat. And, you know, so I just, that's the way I've always been, you know, it's in my blood. I see it in Taylor as well. Like she gets so frustrated when things,

you know, don't go her way, um, when she's being competitive, you know, I see it when she plays basketball or other sports or what have you. Um, you know, I, I think it's, is it a character flaw probably a little bit, but it also, I feel like, is what makes people great at wanting to be great in their specific sport or their profession, right? If they are that person that is just over the top cares about perfection, it makes them really good at what they do. But sometimes that character flaw comes up and it's a negative when it comes to, your interaction with others and things like that. So while I think that you can draw conclusions to get back to the question,

I would say Michael did not have a big influence on my competitive nature, but you have two owners at 2311 that are ultra competitive. And I can tell you, and you see it through the investment we're making in the sport, we want to win. And we want to do whatever it takes to win. And, you know, we have to be smart with that because, again, this is, this is my own money that I've made in the sport. I've been, I'm investing back into it. So I have to be smart with it.

But I also, you know, want to win. And, you know, I'm happy to see our team where it's at now as one of the best two, two car organizations out there. And competing with the big boys that have been around for decades each and every week now. Do you think it's just being maybe highlighted more because you're still trying to get that championship and getting towards the end of your career? And so people think that you're racing differently or acting differently? I mean, I certainly believe that here in the latter years, I'd say probably in the last couple of years, I've definitely been more selfish on the racetrack than I was early on, simply because I know that. that, you know, I've now set a goal for myself, right? And I, and I'm, and I know that the, uh, the, uh, the, the, uh, the sunset clock is ticking.

Right. And so I, there's that urgency. I'm 20 minutes laps 20, 20 minutes less than the race. Right. I, I'm cranking up that urgency to, to, to get there. And, and so sometimes through that, it, it makes us really, really good. And sometimes it makes us make mistakes. But I, you know, I think that that, that, that, that, that, clock is going off a little bit and and so it's making me say okay well how many more shots am i going to have at this so i need to capitalize now so i think that that's kind of what shifted my mindset on how i race uh over the last few years is that just a mindset all the time or are you in positions in the race where you're like oh i you know you think about that and think okay i i don't I don't have any more shots I am, or going to have it this, like, this is my chance to take it,

or is it just something that's turned on 24-7? It's turned on 24-7. I can't turn it off. I am always thinking about what I need to do to win. I think about it when I lay my head on the pillow. I think about all the things. You know, I mean, last night I'm thinking as I'm trying to go sleep, I'm thinking, what am I missing. How can I get better in the wet? How can I hit my marks better? Like all those things can go through my mind constantly and it consumes you, right? And sometimes when you, when people around me don't understand why I'm so tired at times, it's because I'm mentally tired. I'm, I'm exhausted, mentally exhausted because, you know, when you see, when you see the, the picture of

the gif of all the numbers going off in someone's head, right? And it's like, that's what's going on in my head constantly. And so anytime I try to relax, it's like, oh, I'm exhausted. It's like, what physically did you do today that was tough? Nothing. I just had meetings and those meetings spurred, you know, intellect into, you know, made me think about something else and it was thought provoking and then I thought well how can I fix that and how can this get better and that get better so it just it consumes me and so it's why I think I will struggle with retirement one day is that I'm constantly stimulated by wanting to get better in so many different aspects wanting my team to be better wanting all those things to be better that what happens when I

actually am off. And I take a vacation, right? Am I going to be just so ultra bored, more than likely? I mean, you already experienced that during COVID. That's what made me start a race team. This sucks. I'm going to start making another career. Right.

It's what started 2311 was COVID. I was sitting around my pool on a Sunday afternoon thinking, surely this is not what retirement is like. Like, I can't do this. And this is what people live for, Travis, sitting outside. at this pool on Lake Norman. I was going to say after this week, and I'm like, man,

I really could just live the life by the pool. It'll happen one day, but I'm just, my competitive juices are flowing just too much right now to let it go. I've got one dear Danny question. So we had a race up against the clock yesterday. I found it entertaining to see how it was going to play out.

Do you think NASCAR should ever have one race where, okay, you're racing to the clock and not to the lap? Sure. yeah we could do that um certainly it's it's very possible right because it's it's so different because you know f1 goes to a lap right unless it goes long and then they go to a clock is that yeah they have like they have a certain window that from the start of the race to the end it has to be done by because these races are so impacted by caution flags in f1 they don't have as many safety cars right

So they don't have the seven, eight, ten cautions that we have during some events. When our races go green, our races could be two hours and 20 minutes or they can be four hours and 30 minutes for the same distance race, just depending on cautions, right? So that's why starting a little earlier gives you that window to get the thing in before we get closed in by darkness. but yeah it could it could happen and i think that this clock is definitely going to be a factor going forward because with our start times or our published start times over the next you know 15 more weeks we're going to be up against it again at some point there's going to be a rain delay where we're going to be up against it so um this is not the last you're going to see or hear from it yeah i think it's just one of those things too that nascar implements and that they'll go back to

You know, like once there's a precedent set, they'll go back to it now. I mean, when they had that clock up on the screen, I found it. I was locked in. I wasn't moving away from the TV. Yeah, because you knew like that we're going to see double zeros and then two to go. Yeah. Right. So.

And what made it exciting too is that all the sudden, you know, TV caught onto it with about a lap and a half to go. They were like, because Bowman, I was watching. Bowman was the only car in the picture. and then all the sudden you saw this car coming and they're like and here comes Tyler Redick and like he's he's been coming for a while now so it's that's what made it exciting as well that's the one thing I hope they did a good job on the broadcast of highlighting is that there were some cars like Redick and Ty who were on slick tires because I'm not sure in person if you're watching that race on the track you could pick that up because I didn't I had I didn't know

that Reddick was on slick tires until two to go. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that eight second lead that Bowman had is now cut to two. Before we wrap up, I definitely want to, we've got to talk about Alex Bowman. I was about to say, like he just punched his ticket. He did. 80 races you didn't want or something like that. Right. And certainly you're going to see some negative people talk about, well, it was fluky

because of the strategy. Let me just clear you guys in. Alex Bowman was hauling ass in practice as well in the complete dry. He was going to be part of the picture, regardless of the conditions. I raced with him last year at that track, and actually I think I spun him in turn 11. And he was fast. He was one of the fastest cars last year. It really didn't get to show it.

I think he blew up. And then this year, I thought he had one of the, the fastest cars again in practice. Now, not the fastest, but I think there's a difference in having speed in practice and then having racecraft to then go up and contend. And I thought Alex was very underrated in the sense of not enough people were talking about his potential to win this race. And what I saw in practice is that that car and driver had a potential to go out there and finish really, really well, no matter what the conditions. And so I think it's very well deserved. Everyone has stories and their own race teams of, you know, races that could have slipped away

from them. I don't know how many opportunities the 48 had legitimate shots this season that they were a race-winning car. None of them come to mind really quickly. But, But this was a earned win in the sense of he drove a great race. He did what it took to win. The crew chief did what he thought he needed to do for the right strategy to win. And Alex executed. So you got to give him credit. And I think he was in the – it doesn't – it didn't move the cut line,

but it did move another driver that was – he wasn't really borderline on points. But like if he had a streak like I've had over the line. last five races of terrible finishes. He would find himself on the bubble. So it adds another race winner and another long, winless street broken. Yeah, Bowman finished. Well, he scored six stage points in. Oh, no. Stage one, he finished six. Stage two, he finished second and then won the race. So he was in the picture throughout the day. So he was six in stage one. There was no alternate strategies that played out in stage one,

right? We just all... A couple people had stayed on slicks or wets, but that's about it. Correct. But there was no short pitting. Correct. You know, the reason we got one stage point in stage two is because everyone in front of us pit, except for nine cars. So, yeah, he was going to be in contention no matter what.

I would have loved to see how that last half lap was going to play out with him and Reddick. I mean, there was always a chance that neither one of them win because they both end up wrecked. But still, it's, you know, I know it was a big win for him. Blake Harris, his first win is a crew chief. So, you know, fantastic all the way around. I wonder how hungover he is right now. Yeah, you're seeing pictures on social media that they pulled it all nighter. So it's good.

You're really happy for teams like that, drivers like that, that are working really hard. And, you know, they're fighting for their spot, you know, in the team, right? I don't think that, you know, no one's been completely quiet about the whispers of, man, Alex is not running where his teammates are running, but he outran them this week. Alex Bowman did something you haven't been able to do yet, Denny, and give your new dog a victory. He adopted a dog last week.

My dog's bad luck. Lulu is bad luck. You can't argue the records. Yeah. We're on a five race skid. After having five, after having five top fives in a row, I mean, we're on a slide. We've got to give that damn dog.

way. Meanwhile, Bowman and Hucker 1-0. Oh, he got the dog this week? Yeah. Went and picked up like on Tuesday. Oh, man. Lucky dog. Hey, one thing I got to, before we wrap up here, give a quick shout out to you guys and thank you all for the little birthday celebration you through for me. But I think the fans will find it cool because I kind of find it cool in this respect is that the second part of this night, when I met you guys at Rabbit or whatever the club was. Bandit, Bandit. Banned it. Same thing. Similar names. I walk in there and there's, you know, there's like the Denny crew. There's Denny, Austin, Charlie. And then there's also JP and Colby and Tyler Mon. Yeah. And the Larson crew is like, wow. I'm bringing these two families together. I know, right? Yeah, it's, you do. You bring. You bring the whole, hey, by the way, you can remove the tape.

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure people, I don't know if Travis posted the clip last week. I thought you were going to post it. Did you send it to me? Yeah. Oh, well, my bad then. You can take the tape off. I know you want to be a big supporter. There you go.

You do have to change 500. It's still 500. Nonetheless, nonetheless. But, yeah, yeah, hey, I don't mind talking it out over a few beverages here and there. Yeah, it's all good. Yeah. So Jared's bringing the people together. Trying.

Trying to score some. 30th birthday coming up this week, right? This weekend, yeah. Man, I can tell you, 30's fine. Once you hit 40, down you go. See, that's what people are saying about 30. Like, wouldn't you make? No, 30's easy.

No. Yeah, 30's nothing. I could do a lot of things at 30. I can't do now at 40. All right, well, man, going to Pocono. There's no wet. There's no wet weather tires of Pocono, and there's no wet weather tires coming at Indy.

These next two weeks, it's on, baby. It's on.