Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Daytona 500: Entertainment Has Taken Over

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Denny Hamlin is back after a disappointing ending to the Daytona 500, as his chance to win a fourth 500 was ruined when he was wrecked on the final lap.2:48 Superspeedway racing has become all about luck12:13 Zero accountability for drivers who mess up23:50 What can NASCAR do to improve their product41:15 Kyle Busch isn’t happy with NASCAR49:40 Is Joey Logano or Ricky Stenhouse Jr. to blame for their wreck56:40 Ryan Preece has another scary crash1:00:00 JGR using more technology on pit stops1:06:15 Reaction to ARCA, Trucks and Xfinity races Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is why I got into NASCAR racing. I spent decades learning how to do this and watching the best and studying it and understanding it. And I'm going to get rewarded for this. And then, you know, we all crash at the end. Like, that has become normal in the Daytona 500. That's what then kills my enthusiasm for this whole thing. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years.

opinions from tonight's podcast strictly biased you're going to hear from my point of view I'm a fighter no you are not the spoils a victory for Jared Allen he's got better luck the drink and drink to win

I know you do two trophies missing from your collection championship and the most popular driver someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure yeah and I've already said Hey guys welcome to action's detrimental I'm Denny Hamlin

driver of the number 11 wrecked National Debt Relief Toyota for Joe Gibbs Racing Jared I'm just Red Vest 311 No no you're not just Red Vest 311

I mean I called it I called it last week One of Jared's guys wins Yeah are you not on the victory tour I will be in six hours Oh yeah You gotta go to New York or something Yep. I'm happy for you. No, you're not. Not in the least little bit. But I'm here, Travis. You said I wouldn't be here. And I'm here. Travis, I appreciate the work you put in to prepare me for these episodes. And by the way, Dirty Mo, I'm going to need to get Travis a camera. Okay. He's becoming more and more of a vocal part of this podcast. He needs his own camera.

Um, but I, I just feel like off script is how this is going to go today. That's fine. You know what I mean? Like I, we got the things we need to chat about. Um, but I, I just, this is one of these mornings where I woke up full Clint Eastwood, get off my lawn. So like, you text us. I'm just so. I mean, just, I woke up pissed.

And it's about everything. And it's like, now I know why drivers retire. Like, I just, I have that feeling. Like, I just, I'm like, I'm tired of this shit. When did you get mad? And there's just a big picture to this. But I don't know. I just,

I wasn't mad in the moment, right? If I was really mad in the moment, when I talked to Cole on Pitt Road, I would have, you know, gave it to him. But, you know, I asked the question saying, hey, why'd you turn left down straight away? Like, and he's like, you know, he said what he said in his interviews. I don't know.

I haven't seen it. And whatnot. But, you know, I just feel as though. I think today is going to be seen as sour grapes, but yeah, it is. Because I worked, like, I don't know, I worked so hard to work on my craft at all types of racetracks. And I spent so many years growing up, you know, trying to get better. And, you know, how can I get better in this area, that area, learn from some of the best. you know, I was very fortunate early in my career to be blessed being on the racetrack with

Dale Jr. and Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, some of just the best Super Speedway racers you could imagine. I just watched them thinking, wow, like, I'll never beat these guys in a race. Like, their IQ on a Super Speedway was just off the charts. And as a young guy, I was watching them thinking there's just, I've got so much to learn to. to be competitive on these types of tracks. But it's times have changed. And I find myself in this position where it's like, you know, are we now going to start viewing the Daytona 500 winners?

Like we question our champions. Like it's just, it's a bunch of questions now. Like, yeah, but. It's always the yeah, but. And I hate that. that for the winners because, you know, this is their big moment to shine and, you know, it's a big accomplishment. But I hate the fact of how much luck is involved in NASCAR now.

I used to hate the word luck because it's like, and it was so overused in our sport for decades. Before the next gen came along, people would talk about, oh, luck. And they still do on a NASCAR media. overuse the word luck so much they always have and it's like no no you have you got to put yourself in the position to not not capitalize on others misfortune that's luck like you needed them to have misfortune for you to win that is luck but it's making the moves at the end of the race to win and it's that wow that you know that guy just did something that it's hard to do. It shows that he's better than the rest of them. And we just, I feel like we've lost that.

It's just a matter of wrecks at super speedways. And I feel like the Daytona 500 is a microcosm of our, just the sport in general when it comes to how we crown our champion now as well. Like it's just a, it's it's in this started with the competition group a decade ago when we started cutting horse power because we wanted to look good on TV we wanted you to think that they can pass but not not that they can actually pass and and it just for me has gotten to the place where in my feelings and I know this because I've been part of the sport for over 20 years now the entertainment of it has far overtaken the sport of it. And I don't know how we reverse things.

You will hear all week, all week from media, that's just Super Speedway Racing. And all that is is a cop out for those who make stupid moves. it's no one holds anyone accountable anymore it's just you chalk it up to yeah well it happens all the time how about we actually call out what what it is right are the cars making us do this or the drivers doing this like it's a combination of both i believe but i just i'm losing my love of just the sport of it because I feel like it's I feel like it's going by the wayside

for the sake of entertainment and it's I don't think anyone built this car for Super Speedway Entertainment but I tried to explain to you on the on the plane yesterday you know was it you or my mom says well how do we get here is me that the last six have ended last six yeah 500s have ended in a you know major record.

Where do I start? Okay, it starts by over time, you know, we've, we used to run 200 miles an hour at at Super Speedways. And the cars were hard to really drive and handle and like Daytona 500 was a battle of the best driver who and the best team that brought the best car that had a great setup under it and some of the greats of our sport could navigate the traffic and use it to their advantage. And it's just that art is gone now. Just like the art of passing on short tracks is gone now.

Now we just knock each other out of the way and say, that's just short track race. Like, we've just, we got to, we got to get this thing back. We don't have to. I mean, I'll be gone shortly. and you know, this can just continue down this road. Yeah, but you're still going to be owning a team. So it's still going to be. I know, but that's what upsets to me as well, right?

I spend so much money at 2311 to ensure my team and my drivers have the best cars available to go out there and compete for a win. But it's just such a f***ing crap shoot now. And it's, I hate that what is supposed to be our most prestes, prestigious race, a showcase of heroes, the Super Bowl, they call it, is luck. It is luck. And I don't care how else you want to say it. It is luck. And it's luck because you have to, and you just have to avoid the wrecks. And then if you can get lucky enough to where you avoid the wreck and then the track stays green and you get to race back like it's just i don't know anymore i don't know anymore and i just i've become i've grown really really agitated with where we've got in here and i to go back

to where i said about you know we were used to run 200 right and so the cars were hard to handle um tires were out and so it was just such a big factor that's why you saw the cars you know let's just say in the 2000, 2010s, we would give each other more space because our cars were always out of control. And so we were just trying to keep them on track ourselves, right? Then we had a few incidents of cars flipping the outrage. We got to keep the cars on the ground. Can't have them flipping. So we're going to keep slowing them down.

And we're going to keep slowing them down. And now we're running like 175, 180 at these tracks. still can't keep them on the ground. Still flipping. Still. But so now they've slowed us down so much to where every car is just planted to the ground, which is why we're going down the straightaway just absolutely ramrodding each other from behind. So it's a product of the cars are way too easy to drive.

They have way too much grip, way too much drag. And what it does is it creates a great optic on TV that these cars are two by two, three by three, but ain't nobody passing nobody. We're out there just riding, saving fuel for the greater part of the race, but NASCAR fixed it. They did throw a nice,

you know, fuel mileage caution there with about 40 to go to make sure everyone can make it. I don't know. It just, It's, we definitely should address it. I've said on this show now for years, let's not ignore that we have a super speedway issue. And for my mental health, for my physical health,

like, I just really want us to address super speedway racing. I'm nearly done with my opening dialogue, but it's, we've just, entertainment has taken over. And I mean, what is what is William Byron say when they ask him on Kelly like, how did you do this? Ah, just was

he avoided two of the three big wrecks. I didn't get wrecked. That's not what you want to hear. You want to hear my team brought an amazing car. We had great strategy. And at the end, I made the move to win the race. I coming off turn four,

I made the move, and I can't believe it worked out. And, you know, but it's just not, it's not fair to William. It's not fair to the 2014. It's all going to count the same to them in their record books.

The record books are going to show he went back to back, won the race, and in years past, five, ten years from now, nobody will remember. Isn't two-thirds of what you just said, though, is still true? Is that the team needs to bring a good car and there has to be some strategy to be in a...

Yeah, you've got to make the race. But besides that, you're saying it's not. Everyone's bringing a good car for the most of that. Everyone's bringing a good car. They're all... They're all the same. They're all, yeah, the top 30 fastest cars, yeah, it's all fine. It's just, you know, at that point, I just, why has it be?

become expected that we're all going to just take each other out because apparently it's acceptable to just say well it's a day 20, 500. That's correct. That's correct because you won't hear any media holding anyone accountable for making ridiculous moves. That that that that that when they say I was just going for it. Yeah, but you made a wrong move. That's you went for it and took out the field. It's just we don't, we don't hold anyone accountable. And so we just chalk it up to, that's what we expect because it happens year after year after year.

And it's, the thing is, is it's getting out of, like, we keep trending in this direction. Like, we keep heading more and more in the luck. the winner is lucky our champion is lucky like that is not good for being legitimate in the sports landscape you've been on plenty of you've been on the end of plenty of

misfortunate endings over the last handful of years certainly since we've had this podcast but never before have you texted Travis tonight at 4.02 a.m. After we got home at midnight by the way and just said, can't sleep need an extra hour see you all an hour later for this taping so you were up all last night thinking about what you just said i'm assuming i mean yes yes and no um again i wasn't crazy upset um i went back

and watched the race and i just i digested it i i try not to get too emotional quickly like i do sometimes. I definitely overreact in the moment sometimes. But, you know, I try to be calculated in my post race. Like, let me try to give the benefit of the doubt to Cole here and the 41. Like, I get it that what you're trying to do, but let me try to give you some healthy advice from someone that has done this for 20 years. You're not going to win it by door slamming on the backstretch. If you want a door slam, let's do it coming to the line. If you want to spin us out coming in a lot like that's the time to do it but you always have to live to see the final corner and that's what i don't understand when i heard you know i i

co i have nothing against cole whatsoever but like when he was doing his interview with bob and he was like chucking it up and laughing like it just caused two of the last major big wrecks of the 500 and he was like hi that's just going for it here's like i'm like you don't have to when you're pushing the 20 car there that was not a dire situation you're in a great spot to push the 20 clear you get clear race for the win

there's plenty of time left but some of these guys just get so excited that they think that they they have to make a move now and we have to I got to run into you right now there is no tomorrow were you ever there 2009

2010 were you in that mind space when you had not 20 years of experience? I'm trying to think on Super Speedways, I was more on the side of... Not necessarily in Super Speedways, in big moments, right? Daytona 500, you're only a handful of years into your career. You're in this moment where it could change your life, your team season. Back then, races didn't play out like this. So it seems like those that are particularly...

participating in it and it would understand and see the results every time you choose to make contact, you know what the end result is going to be. Like that's what I don't understand. It's why, in my opinion, right now, one of the greatest Super Speedway drivers we got is Alston Cindrick. When I go to the outside of him, he doesn't try to block. He knows what the result of that is going to be. He wants to live to race it. off a four. And he knows if I get beside him, his rate, it's not over. It's not over. So let's, let's, let's play this thing out. We got a mile or more to go in this race. It's okay. It's okay. We can be three wide. Let's see who gets the biggest push here. Like, that's why we had a

fantastic finish at Atlanta. Everyone's making such a big deal about Atlanta. Three, three wide racing for the league. Did those guys touch you? other? No. They raced it out to the to the finish and we saw a fantastic finishes and it's hailed as one of the greatest races ever because we had a you know a three wide close finish. I just don't think we're ever going to see that in Daytona again because the drivers just lose their minds and they just don't just don't understand that you know and this goes for the 47 and 22. Like,

what are you doing? It's 15 to go. I don't understand. And I was watching these guys, that wreck happened five laps before him. I saw these guys weaving back and forth,

cutting off lines that are coming 10 miles an hour faster than them. And it's like, what do you think is going to happen? You're going to get wrecked every time like that. And it's, it's,

it just takes the sport out of it in my mind because and it's and it's on us it's the drivers we're the ones making these horrible decisions but the car is our cart to acting this way because they're so planted to the ground we're running so slow now that we feel like we're just going to the best way it's just to run into each other hopefully you can knock that guy forward but you drivers are are selfish, right? Aren't you thinking, well, if this move behind me is going to keep me from winning the race, well, then I might as well end up wrecked. Like, I'm going to lose regardless. That's what you're thinking in the moment. Repeat what you just said. I said, aren't you drivers selfish? And that if you feel that a move or a run

coming from behind you is going to pass you or keep you from winning the race, well, then there's no difference in you. No, because you never know what can happen. It's, it's, but it seems like That's what's lost among a lot of drivers in this race. I was third coming off the final corner when Newman and Blaney, remember? It's they came with a run. I didn't block it. I'm like, if I try to block this, we just all end up wrecked. I'm going to either hope to connect to the 12.

This is back in 2020. I'm either hoping I'm connecting to the 12. We get a run on the 6th or maybe those guys wreck. that's another avenue for me to win. But thinking that you just initiate contact and that's going to win you the race, it's 0%. Is the moment just too big for some drivers?

Yeah, do you think this lack of experience for Cole? I don't know. I mean, this happened so quickly. It's why I didn't like really throw Cole under the bus. But I'm a little agitated because he did, I mean, he'd wrecked the 20 too in all those cars. So, like, that's two in a row.

And so is the moment too big? Probably. Probably. But, you know, they find themselves in a position that they haven't been in before and they just don't know what to do. And I'm here to try to give constructive criticism and saying, you don't have to do it. Trust me on this.

Race it out. Get to see the finish line. Then do whatever you want to do. If you want to turn left on the two cars below you when you come off turn four, go for it. I think one of the three of you will win. Maybe it's you. But if you do it down the backstretch or the last lap or 15 to go, like the 22 and 47, you will end up wrecked talking about it when you leave the infield care center. Yeah.

I don't know. I just think, you know, from your perspective, you've got three of these things. You've got 20 years. You're going to go to 30 plus more races this year with a chance to win. every week. Some of these drivers who were up front yesterday with two to go are not in that situation. They're not going to go to the racetrack every week thinking they can win. And then they're like in this moment. And it's like, oh, what do I do? My favorite quote from Moneyball is that when the competition's making a mistake, don't interrupt them. But I'm here trying to interrupt them

and say, you don't have to do it this way. That's because their mistake is going to cost you or your driver. Exactly right. Exactly right. That's why. Because It's like, now it's affecting me, okay? Like, I'm tired of getting taken out by just stupid moves that we chalk up to. That's just super speedway racing. It's because people are afraid to call out what they see. It's not just super speedway racing. It's dumbass racing.

Can you drivers hold each other accountable? Is there a way to, like, self-police some of this? No. no i i don't think so i mean i you know i got a point penalty last time we self-policed um i don't know i i just i understand if you don't like me you you're going to go off on social media right now it's just this is sour grapes and whatnot but i'm just i'm telling you it's it's taking its toll on me that i i've worked i work so hard to put myself in the right position and I know, you know, I know that there was not a thing I would do differently.

I mean, maybe, you know, my mom asked me, was it you or my mom asked me? She says, what if you would have just pushed the two a little bit longer down the backstretch? I was like, I thought about that. I thought about that in that moment. But the way our cars work and to try to give you all kind of a inside baseball here is that, you know, you can only stay attached to somebody for so long. when you start tandem drafting in these cars. And at any moment that bubble can break.

And what happens then is as soon as that bubble or that suction of your front bumper to their rear bumper, once it breaks that seal, then you just push that car out. And so when I got the run on him in the middle of one and two and got to him off a turn two and became attached to him, I can't risk that bubble breaking us apart. So at that moment, I'm like, okay, let me just get side by side with him right now. And then let's see where the help comes from. Maybe he gets the push. Maybe I get the push. But let me just at least get position on him at this moment. It probably had I came off the corner and stayed attached to it.

If I was able to, if I knew I could stay attached to him, I would have pushed him to the end of the straightway and then pulled out, going into turn. and three. But there was just no guarantee knowing how these cars, TANM draft, that I was going to be able to stay attached for that long. So I needed to take the move when I had it. Yeah, I think what's so disappointing to me about this finish was going back to, you know, five to go before the second to last caution, every move you made there with Cynchreck leading seemed or appeared so surgical, you know, like it just appeared like you knew what you were doing. It almost felt like you had like Cindrick's car in the palm of your hand. Like you knew exactly how you're going to get around him, just every move you made.

And then obviously the way it ends is like, we were set up for such a grand finish, potentially. Yeah. And just chaos ensued. Yeah. And that's why I actually felt really good racing with Cindrick at the end because I knew he wasn't going to make that. I mean, let's speak realistically.

Is this probably one of Cindricks's best chances to win this year? Yeah, but do you see him, you know, making erratic, crazy blocks? No, it's because he understands. And he's got the same amount of experience in some of these guys. He's only been around three years. So I think that's why I said on this podcast last week, if I didn't win, who I think I was going to win? Austin Cendrick? I just, you know, and you can see that he is on another level mentally.

and it's why he puts himself in position so much. There's other reasons why. They qualify well. They do great job on pit lane. They work really well as teammates. But Austin Cendrick is just a guy I felt very confident in racing for the win against. Not that I was going to get the best of them, but it was like, I'm going to have a fair race here. He knows what he's doing.

I know what I'm doing. This will be a good. this is going to be a good show. And on the Green White Checkered restart, he got the push. He got clear of me. But it's like I knew the whole time like, I got something left. Like I knew how to get one last run on him. And we did.

But it just, it just, dang it. I really would have liked to see him what would happen. Are you thinking on the last restart? Are you looking at your room from here and be like, oh, wow, I've, you know, I got Cindra here next to me. and you clearly respect his ability and whatnot at these super speedways. But do you think about the other guys around you? Like, oh, I don't know if they're going to act or drive the same way that Syntrick and I are.

And that kind of worries me. Of course. Absolutely. I mean, when they're giving me the lineup, right, they sit on the radio. Here's the top 10. Here's how it could lay out inside lane, outside lane, as I'm trying to make a decision on what lane I'm going to restart on. And I'm thinking the whole time, okay. if I go this lane, then that person is going to go that lane.

But then who will they have behind them? Because typically on restarts, the most important cars are the third car in line and the fourth car in line. It's their jobs to get the line going. So you always are looking on TV at the first two cars. Hey, are they linked up? That really, that's not usually the deciding factor on who clears. It's where's the third and fourth car in each line? the closer they are to the first car in their line,

that line always typically goes. And so we just didn't get organized quite as good. Riley gave me a great push, but he didn't have whoever was behind him didn't stay close enough. And it didn't work out. But it was like there was just no need for panic. Like we had three miles to go or something.

And so many, many big runs were left to come. And but it was exciting. I mean, we, I felt good before that last restart because, you know, I got to the lead by, I think I pushed Cindrick to the lead. And then I got a push to go around them. And at that point, I'm cleared. And I'm like, okay, now this is, this is where I want to be. And that, at that moment, I'm like, I love it. I love that, like, I made, I made the charge.

choice to make a few moves. It paid off. I'm leading the race on a green white checker. This is why I got into NASCAR racing is that I spent decades learning how to do this and watching the best and studying it and understanding it. And I'm going to get rewarded for this. And then, you know, we all crash at the end like that has become normal in the Daytona 500. and that's what then kills my enthusiasm for this whole thing is that I this is what I wanted to do as a kid and I reached the top level and I was about to get my fourth. It was no guarantee, but I was going to have a really good shot of getting my fourth and putting myself an elite company with the greats of our sport that won it, by the way,

when there was like two cars in the lead lap. Like it's just, it's a different world now. And it's, and it's hard to put yourself in that class. And so it's just, it's frustrating because there's, I don't know what else I do different. And, and the record book's going to show we finished 24th. And, you know, I mean, that's my rant on it. I don't know, you know, if I could just throw out my suggestion is, is, is, NASCAR to please, please, please get drag out of these cars.

Reduce spoiler size, please. I just think that we have got to get drag out of these race cars. It will fix so many things. I believe it will fix a little bit of the fuel mileage races that we have. Yes, you're always going to have the, want to have the least amount of time on pit road. but it will allow us to pull out of line when we get moves, to get runs. It will allow us to not be so stuck to the racetrack to, you know, not make us feel like we need to just hammer the car in front of us to go forward.

Like you can do it by pushing through air instead of pushing on a bumper. Like I just, I think taking a large chunk of drag out of these cars, reducing the horsepower back to what we had before. I just want to see us do something different to put the sport back in it and take luck back out of this, this, these prestigious events. Because what's happening is now our prestigious events are just all luck based. And I'm sorry, you will not reach legitimacy in sports that way. In the drivers meeting, NASCAR played a video with highlights from Daytona. I'm sure you watched it.

And I'm sitting there watching and thinking, wow, like this is a spectacle. The Alabama gang does this. and Dale wins this. And it was a great video. But now at the end of this race, I feel like you haven't had a moment that's going to go into that video for the last handful of years.

Are you just losing the prestige of this event when it ends the way it does? Why do you think NASCAR Social posts 20 times Dale Earnhardt's victories back in the day? Or Dale Jr's, yeah, those were okay. You knew that that was the best driver and the best team on that day, and you saw them be surgical.

And you knew they were just better than everyone else. And now, how do you create stars when luck is what is such a big factor? You don't. Stars are created on the racetrack by showing greatness. I just think that it's so watered down now that it's, it's not. They're going to show the clips of the wreck.

They're not going to show the clips of William Byron's, winning move, they're just going to show the wreck. So I just, I think that's a long-term issue. But it's, that's my opinion. And, and this is, but this is a direction that this is, we, this was a pointed direction in which we went in. And so I don't know that those in charge would want to reverse this. I think that they, I think, I think they, I don't think, so. Do I think it bothers them? No. I don't think so. I think that they want it to look good and not

be good. Well, it certainly looks good because you guys are two by two, three by three at 8 p.m. And the casual on Sunday night. And the casual. Right. Exactly. I understand that. I understand that there's an element of, you know, entertainment that we are doing. And I don't want to downplay that because, you know, this is entertainment is what people tune in for. But I try to equate this to the thing about this. Okay. If you wanted basketball that was just straight entertainment, wouldn't you watch the Harlem Globetrotters? Because it's just, you know, tricks and gimmicks and like, you don't.

you tune into the NBA because it has skill, like you see skill on display, and you're seeing them do something that you have no chance to do. People tune into sports to see the great ones. Who's our great ones? I mean, Kyle Arson, we know that because he's done it over an extended period of time, all kinds of different tracks.

but generally speaking it's just i think it's a it's a it's a bigger thing that we got to work on is you know letting the greats um such as you know you know there's there's in my mind probably eight really really good good drivers um and william byron being in that group um let let the stars show their skill and um i think we were very fortunate it for William Byron to win that race. Truthfully, I think, you know, how does, how do we, let me ask you this. How do we feel if John Hunter Neimancheck was in William Byron's spot? We'd hate it.

Yeah, probably. So I think we got, I think we got lucky on that front, you know, as far as like promotion of the sport, this is a bit, you know, William Byron legitimizes it because he won last year. And it's like, well, it's clearly not a game of chance. You know, two in a row. So you're going to have that argument. But I just think that had it been someone else, I think you probably have more of a, whoa, like, can we do something to fix this?

You know, and that's not a knock on John Hunter. I just think that I believe that the people would view it differently. and I think that they already don't love what they're seeing, you know. Yep. You've already explained us how we got here. But why did we get here? Why did we get here? Again, it's just a combination of, you know, we've gotten, we've slowed ourselves down so much trying to keep the cars on the ground.

We created a next gen car that's the same for everybody. You know, people want to bring back like old speed weeks. We're there for a week. and we have preseason testing, folks, there's nothing else we can do these cars. Like, you know, we take the Lego set,

we put the Lego set together. You can put the Lego set together however you want, but you got to put it to, you know, you got to put the Lego set together. It's not like we're trying different aerodynamic stuff, like what's going to be good in the draft versus what's going to be good for qualifying.

Like that was a legit thing. We would just be burning tires and fuel. We got here by this, common race car that, you know, I guess the point was that, hey, make the car same for everybody and then the stars will, the drivers will be the biggest difference, but it's just not, NASCAR racing isn't that way. It's, it's, it's, there's so many outside factors, you know, when's the caution fall, do you make it on fuel mileage, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's part of our sport, right? I mean, that's, that is the sporting aspect of it. Uh, but I just,

think it makes it really difficult to showcase the guys. I mean, I say that and to counter my own argument, like Austin Cendrick finds himself up front most of these Super Speedway races. But you want to, anybody want to check Austin Cendrick's record, finishing record? It's not good on Super Speedways, but yet in my mind he's been the most dominant in next gen. So that's not fair to him. So that's not fair to him and it's not his fault right it's somebody else making a ridiculous move that takes him out i mean that that's commonplace though isn't it that the best super speedway racers are usually finishing the race in the garage it is today yes do you have any issues with uh nascar allowing the field to race back to the checker flag i mean you see that you know people are talking about well it's it's it's in

consistent. Listen, here's how this is going to go. If a wreck happens before the white, they will be quick to throw the yellow. If it happens after the white, they will be late to throw the yellow. That's just the way this is typically trending. So get used to it. I'm okay with that, though. Yeah. I mean, I was one of the last, I think I was the only one that crashed hard that was sitting there in turns three and four. Was I going to affect the finish? No. I thought that the, the, the batch vehicles were there in a timely manner. My issue was I couldn't get the car refired. So I didn't have any issue with it at all.

You know, Riley spun, didn't make any contact. I actually kept going. Was there a... I mean, that saved the finish, didn't it? I mean, Riley gets loose there after taking the way and ends up head first in the wall. you're not even getting to the backstretch. Yeah, because they, well, I think they'll let you go to turn three.

I think they would have let it, you know, had he nosed it into the wall right after the start finish line, I think they probably would have less racing the three and then called it. Because they don't, they're not going to want you coming to the line. Full steam ahead. Right. I think the problem that the drivers have with it, and I saw it on our group text,

is that, oh, so we're racing back to the caution now. Or we're racing back in the middle of recs. So initially the reason that they throw the caution when they see heavy, you know, cars making heavy damage is that they don't want you driving through there. And it's just a matter of then who holds it wide open and closes their eyes and hopes they don't hit anyone. And so by them not throwing the caution there, it actually rewarded those who kept their foot in the gas the entire way on the last lap. and, you know, I got, I was wrecked and then somebody came up from the bottom and hit me in the left side door, like, hard. And it, I don't know if it was because they, you know, they kept their foot in it or they just got clipped or something. But I think from the driver's safety standpoint,

they're a little worried that this is a slippery slope that, you know, you're still, by not throwing a caution, you're still rewarding those who keep your foot all the way in the gas. Yeah. Does that also play a role in these finishes and that maybe you drivers don't think anymore that, hey, we're racing back to the checker flag. But instead, we're just racing until another one of these guys out here makes a mistake and NASCAR throws the yellow. So therefore, you're racing down the backstretch thinking this race is over momentarily because as soon as someone else makes a mistake, we're done. So I have to get all I can get in any particular moment. Yeah, like the race is not over at the checker flag. It's over when someone else makes a mistake. That's how you would think it would go, but I don't know. I just think that from the drivers, I think they feel very vulnerable sitting in the middle of the racetrack.

And just because it doesn't affect the finish, you don't throw a caution. So then I'm sitting in the middle of the racetrack in a green condition while cars are still coming. So that's, that's unsafe for us drivers. Yeah. I just mean in like the decision making of drivers on the last lap that you're almost racing like you're expecting rain to hit any moment. You know, that as soon as someone crashes, this race is over and whatever position I'm in is the way I finish. Not the position I finish in is when I get to the checkered flag because we're probably not going to get to the checkered flag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, especially on these types of tracks, It's, you know, you know that the wreck that could end it could happen at any moment.

But I think, you know, they, they've gotten some grief over the finish of the truck race. The duels. Right? Huh? The duel, the second duel. Yeah. And so, you know, we went the other way on this one, just let this one go. Again, I was, I guess I'm okay with it, but I also understand some of the drivers.

that are upset that, you know, I'm crashed on the racing surface and there's no caution. That tells everyone that's coming through my crash site, floor it because you got to get to the your finishing position is going to be decided by the finish line, not my crash. How are you feeling physically after that hit? Because it did look bad. I was all good up until I got hit in the door there. So I'm going to get my wrist looked at today. But other than that, I'm all good. We had a Kyle Bush tweet following the wreck with 15 to go.

He was in. Is that correct? That's when he ended his race. He was in the Lagano Stenhouse one, right? Yeah. Kyle tweeted after the race, parked by NASCAR officials. Rule says you have three attempts to make minimum speed.

The race never went back green yet. I don't even think they know their own rules or procedures. Yeah, I have to disagree with Kyle here. You guys know because I called Elton Sawyer. You guys were in here. I called them because anytime that you kind of have these controversial things, you know, I appreciate Elton taking my call this morning. I wanted to be educated on this whole Kyle situation.

You know, Kyle was incorrect in saying you get three attempts to, to make speed. That never has been, that is not the case. You know, you guys heard it. The way I understand it is that if you, once you, first of all, it started because his lift jack system did not work. And it is up for debate on why it didn't work. Kyle said that the air pump, the tank that they had didn't have any air in it.

Or, you know, it didn't work. And if that's the case, that's on them. That's on the safety crew or NASCAR, whoever, to make sure that your equipment is working. But again, we don't know. We're just, we got to take, we'll take Kyle's word forward on this one, right? so because his system didn't work he wasn't able to get you know plugged into the airjack system

bring his car up so he could then drive it to pit road so if he drives it to pit road he then you know once the race goes back green he has three laps to make minimum speed is that the way that you all heard it but because he had to be towed to the garage because of this, you know, either the, a NASCAR tank problem or a car's car

problem. Anyway, he got to had to get towed back to the garage. And if you start in the garage, you, when you come out after, because they give you unlimited time to fix it, once you come out, you better have it right because you don't get another chance after that. Um, so, Yeah, he thought he had multiple attempts and then also said, you don't. We were still under caution. And that doesn't matter if it was still yellow or had gone green. You get one shot. Elton made that very clear that it doesn't matter the condition.

Once you leave the damaged area in the garage, once you pull out and say, okay, we've got our car fixed. You better make speed at that point. Yep. If, if you start. on pit road and run a lap and you think it's no good

if you've got more time on the clock you can come back to pit road work on it if not you got to take it back in the garage spend as much time as you need to work on it but when you go back out that's your attempt yeah that's so I think Kyle was just a little

mixed up on the rules there I thought it was you know after explained again I know it's hard to kind of know all the nuances of it. But to me, it's, it's pretty simple that if you go to the garage to fix your car, when you come back out, it has to be right. That's why they encourage you, they give you as much time as you need to fix it.

Yeah. And Kyle's frustrated too in the moment. No question. Because he feels he's got a decent shot to win his first Daytona 500. And more or less the same situation that takes you out of the race, takes him out of the race. And he's mad at Ligano for the wreck. yeah, this. So, you know, he's just upset at everything. Yeah, he's upset at Joey, and Joey's upset with the 47. How did you see that? That wreck? I told you, I saw the wreck happen.

It was going to have five laps before. I just saw these guys weaving from the top lane to the bottom line. Like, I just don't get like these low percentage moves and they think it's going to be successful. I just, I don't know. It's my opinion. That's why I'm not them. They're not me. So is it both their fault? Or whose fault is it, though, for the actual wreck? Like, we know it started five laps apart, but like the actual wreck, who's at fault? If I had to put a number on it, I'd say probably 65% the 47 and 35% the 22. Stenhouse made a very aggressive block to a that was going much faster, you know, it was going faster than him. He chopped down on the 22. It saw the 22 lift to like not keep his foot on it and just dump the 47, which he could have done.

The 47 then he realizes, okay, I'm in line. I'm in a safe spot. And the 22, more than likely, what had happened. And he can correct this on his own podcast later this way, is that I think what happened with Joey is he got pissed off when he got chopped off. And he said, okay, I'm going to, you know, you leave me another gap. I'm going to take it. And he kept taking it. And the 47 kept trying to stop it. And eventually they just crashed each other.

So to me, it's just the cooler heads didn't prevail in the situation. And I know that the 22 was probably pissed that he got chopped off by the 47. So he said, the next opportunity he leaves me a one car width. I'm sticking my nose in there and I'm not lifting next time. And that's what happened. Yeah. He certainly got chopped off the first time. He tries to take a run that he's got through the middle.

But again, I don't know. If you're the 47, like you're still the front of your line. There's still, you know, there was three lines at the time. And it's like, I think he moved down to block the 20. but there was still, you still have a safety net that another lane is coming to pick you up. It's not like you're going to the back of the pack. Yeah, you might lose three, four spots, you know, a couple. But like it's not, to me, it's not a dire, do-or-die situation of I've got to make this block.

I have said for years, there's not one block that absolutely has to be made unless it's off a turn for. that is the only time that like a block is absolutely necessary because anything can happen the leaders could take themselves out you know racing for each other someone pulls a blot block boom you win the race but i just felt like we were at 15 to go and it just felt like when i was in the pack guys were starting to push harder um everyone was leaving each other less and less room it was inevitable that we were going to wreck but that one was i just one where, you know, weaving back and forth between two and three lanes, I don't know.

I just, I have found more success just staying in a lane, find a way to tug your lane, right? Do a good job of leading your lane and nobody will try to pass you. Like, you know what I mean? Just do your, do a good job dragging your lane and everything will work itself out. bouncing between lanes trying to stop runs I just don't know that it's a way forward I mean I'm sure there is a way but I just I just haven't seen

that not end in the way that it ended more times than not a Ford whether that was RFK or Penske car or whoever it led 62% of the laps in this race do they have something that the other manufacturers don't have Um, no. I think they've got really good drivers who are really good. They've got two, maybe three of the top six super speedway drivers right now, like, you know, technique drivers. And that's, that's going to be hard to beat, especially if they're committed to each other. Um, so it's why they keep themselves up towards the front. I think to do a, uh, I think they, uh, I think they, they get better fuel mileage than us personally.

So, you know, just a combination of that. Keeps them up front. They qualify well. Now, you can't take anything away from them. I think that they just, they got elite drivers that know what they're doing. Does the fuel mileage really plan to that, that they're just more comfortable staying up front because they have better fuel mileage. So I can run up front while you can't.

Yeah, I mean, getting better fuel mileage is a combination. You know, some of its drivers. some of it, it could be, you know, engine mapping or what have you. But it's either way, they, they just seemed more, they seem more buttoned up when it comes to executing on a super speedway. Now, they, the results would show that they just, they get crashed a lot. Um, but again, we talked to, we went on a rant for 20 minutes at the beginning of the show about that. I, I don't think all that's their fault. Ryan Preece

somehow seems to find himself in these massive wrecks when we go to these super speedways. Yeah, and when he said that this wreck was harder on him than the flip, I would agree 100%. When I watched, you know, anytime your car comes down, like flat like that on the bottom,

I mean, it is a back breaker. Like my back, I would be coming in here in a wheelchair. What do we be doing the podcast today? No, no. So, yeah, that wreck is a, not the flip. The flip is what's going to get all the airtime, but when his car slams back down on the ground, I can't tell you how hard that hurts. So what do we do? That's, you know, it is just really bad for the spine. So what do we do?

Because he's calling for some changes. Oh, man. He says they know the changes they need to make. They do? I mean, that was Ryan Priest's quote. Travis, do you have? I don't know. I just, I don't know, let's be a little careful with just these knee-jerk reactions. Again, the knee-jerk reactions is why we've gotten to run 175 miles an hour on these tracks. And it's why we're crashing each other so hard. Like, I'd rather just let us run 200 with a little more space, and it would be less dangerous. It would. I'm telling you, would be. We keep beating on the door, hoping for a different result.

And I think we know where there's a problem at super speed. face. Yeah, I don't know what he's, I'm not sure what he's insinuating, but I, you know, he's probably been in more conversations than I have with NASCAR on what they think will help. But, I mean, this was a wheelie, right? So it just doesn't matter. We've got this flat underbottom of our car. And so, I mean, you've seen sports cars in the past, right, where they get airborne and the air just takes it and it's like a parachute. It's just, this is like what we saw. at Bowman Gray with Ty, right? When Ty got that wheelie

on Justin Haley, except in that race, he's going 30 miles an hour, and this one you're going 190. It's like when you're going tubing on the water and those tubes catch the air and they just go up in the air. The other thing is, I'm guessing this one also hurt harder because the one when he flipped,

you had all the energy dispersing out of the car where this really didn't have much time to lose any of that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it was just a bad combination of a lot of things. but if the cars if we have more space between each other it wouldn't happen as often so I don't know

but I certainly hope the answer for them is not to be well we just got to keep slowing them down until we run so slow that there's no chance that the air can lift it up well I imagine we'll probably see some adjustments in some sort of way before the next super speedway race

whether that's a shark fin or something else. Travis, where do we want to go from here? JGR tablets on fuel only. That's something new that caught everyone's attention. Last year you said that you'd always just go on the head nod. That seemed like it's probably the fastest. What can you say?

I mean, I can answer any questions, but it's just a way for us to try to, you know, quicken up our pit stop time. I don't know. I think that, you know, typically the reason what happens is that, you know, we're all fighting for tens of a second, right? And so when you go into the pit area and you know you need a certain amount of time, let's just call it four seconds of fuel, right? It's usually the crew chief watches to see when they plug in, he counts to four and then he tells you to go. or or he's waiting to see the bubbles come up in the actual um fueling tank and then he you know fuel

noller gives a nod crew chief then says go and all that takes time all that round of communication takes time and so i think that you know jGR is doing it's just as a way to streamline that communication i didn't read bozzi tata refich's article on twitter but he he wrote about this how is how is the tablet linked to the fuel process. How is the screen going green giving you the signal to go? It's just a countdown. I think the person is hitting it. I don't think it's connected.

Oh, it's just a countdown? It's just a countdown. Yeah, I don't think it's connected to like there's a chip in the fuel. No, no, you can't have that. Yeah. It's just the person holding the tablet. Yeah, somebody has to activate to start it. Somebody has, you know.

I mean, I've used an iPhone. before. They're like, I've had to touch something more than once to get it to go. Right. What happens if, if that occurs? Like you're using a tab,

you're saying you start a countdown on the tablet. And when it reaches zero, it automatically turns green. But someone has to start the countdown on the tablet. At the same time, it could be the person, I don't know, but it could be the person on tablet,

just hitting a button on, you know, because you can make these buttons do anything. Right, but they have to match their time of hitting the button. They're watching. They're watching when it plugs in.

So there's just a little bit less margin of error doing that than the head nod. Yeah. I mean, was it a gain? Was it not? I don't know. It's just something we're talking about. I'm curious who the next team is that gives us a try because everyone was talking about it. So I'm like at what point does another team say let's try this because it's sports is a copycat.

No matter what league it is, it's a copycat league. Yeah, for sure. You know, for again. And it's, you know, one of the best teams on pit road, I think, are the Penske cars. And they, whatever they're doing works, right? I mean, they spend the least amount of time on pit road. I think if you look at the stats, I would assure you that the Penske cars felt like to me they were on less pit road less time than anyone.

So they've got something else worked out that we got to figure out. So whether it's, you know, me driving, like I got to get my foot off the guy. gas pedal or what? Like, I'm not really sure, but there's a lot to be learned there. Your save in turn two, was that as impressive to you as it was watching on TV? Yeah. I saw the checkup and, you know, Zane didn't get it quite as quickly. But yes, I was so nervous because that thing, many times you see when you get hung on the apron right there, that thing will hook hard right. And so I just made sure I had my wheels. Turned, and left. All the new drivers out there, truck series or expanding, if you get caught on the apron

like that, turn the wheel left. Don't ever turn the wheel right. If you got to spin it out to the bottom, spin it out to the bottom, but don't ever try to correct it by going right because the thing will eventually hook in whatever direction the wheels return. That's where your car is going to go. So, yeah, all the young drivers out there get hung on the apron, turn left, don't turn right. Is that it? counterintuitive of how you would think you correct the car. But that's it. You just get slid on the apron and you just turn left? I just turn it left kind of as far as I can turn it without grabbing.

You know, I never want to change my hand position on the wheel. So I'll just turn it left as far as my arms will let me turn it and hold it and hold it until it grips. And then once I feel it's starting to grip, I'll start to straighten the wheel back out. So there is a moment there where you do have to catch you. it yourself. Yes, yes, yes, for sure. Though I will say maybe knowing how the race ended, might have been better just to get in the wreck of the beginning

and the days over. That's tough drives. I wouldn't have came in here as the get off my porch guy for sure this morning. But, I mean, I still find it rewarding that, like, I knew I did what I needed to do and I made the move that was going to win us another 500. And you've talked about how the past few years Super Speedway hasn't been your thing.

So does that kind of, does at least seeing how you performed give you confidence? I never, I never have second guessed like the ability for me to create runs, get attached to cars. The tactics on track

haven't gone away. Like my next gen Super Speedway record while atrocious, it hasn't necessarily been, I never felt, I never doubted like the tactics part of it. It's just all the other things. I have, I have been good at super speedways because I've always gone 100% gone out there, controlled the race, worked the lines. Now it's just a different world where where I felt like I needed to really, really improve was getting my foot off the pedal. I need to be better at, you know, riding, which I've never been good at. If you look at the super speedways over time back when we used to run up against the wall, I was always the first to go to the

bottom. Like, that's just boring. Let's go put on a show. Let's, let's go 100% all out all the time. So I've never really been good at just sitting back and and waiting and relaxing and saving. and like, no, I want to go and, you know, allow the skill set to keep me up front. But that is what has happened in NextGenera is that I burn more fuel. And then I find myself, you know, after a pit stop in 25th. And I'm like, what the hell? It's just leading the race. I just drew up to lead the race.

Why am I 25th? Well, we got to put more gas in the car. Get your foot off the gas. I want to do that. So I've needed to get better. at all the other things, not the on-track moves. It's all the other aspects of what makes, you know, you run up front in a super speedway race.

That's where I've really needed to improve over the last few years. A few other quick topics here to touch on before we close out. Elio Castornevis, NASCAR experience is finally complete. He had one hellful weekend. Yeah, he did. He got the full experience. Yeah, I don't know what else to say about it. He got in a lot of wrecks.

I mean, most of them, not his fault, yeah. I mean, you know, I thought the one in the duel was like, eh, didn't look great because he didn't look like he was really trying to slow down when he was crashing. Like, he just kind of kept in it. But other than that, like, I don't know. Don't get me started on the arc of race. It's not a NASCAR race, folks. Yes, people, I know technically it is, but can we get those guys off that track? I'm sorry, but inexperienced drivers should not be running 190 miles an hour at Daytona.

You know, it just... As the appetizer for the weekend. It's just not... It's unsafe for all. It's just that race does not belong on that track. That is a lower series that needs to be running on short track. tracks. You want to put them on an intermediate, fine. But, you know, those drivers have not nearly enough experience to be on that track running those speeds. I think they had, what, like 13 people

in the race that started with like 40? Well, I mean, that's a normal arc of race. Usually if you can, if you're five laps down, you usually can finish 10th. I know, y'all are laughing, but that's true. Just crazy. Just wild. I don't know. It's easy. It's easy. for us to just, you know, trash on it. But it's, it's not their fault. They're, they're trying to do everything they can. I just don't, I just don't believe, you know, putting very inexperienced drivers on, on a track running that fast is, is a good idea for anyone's health or well-being. Bubba Wallace won his duel on Thursday night. And then we saw a cool video on social media of him taking the trophy over to MJ later that night. Is a dual win just as exciting as any other win?

No. I mean, I think for everyone it's different. It's certainly awesome to start your week, you know, your speed weeks off that way. And I mean, it's on Thursday. But I think it means different for everyone. He hadn't won one yet. So I think that that is big. You also get 10 points for the regular season. So you do get points, which definitely matters. And you get a trophy. So like what I loved about winning a duel or back when we had this clash at the, at Daytona is the trophy would sit in your motorhome the whole week. So like, you know, that trophy sits there because you're there all week and it's like, hell yeah, we've already, we're already leaving with some hardware, right? You, no matter what happens in the 500, like, you've got, you're going home with something. And so that's what, that's the best part of it. And for someone that didn't win last year, yeah, this is just a duel, but yeah, coming in first place in something. And he controlled that race. Like him and the 45 really controlled that. race and dominated it. So, yeah, it was a sign of good things. And guest on DBC today.

Is he? Yep, Bub was on. Cool. A few other things. Truck series, Parker Clearmine crosses the start finish line first, but is then later DQed and Corey Hime announced the winner. Parker and the team are still appealing this win as far as I know? They're pissed. Do you know anything about why? I had some conversations with them. I'll, I'll let the appeal play out. Can you explain what they said that he did to be like the height? I'm not educated enough on it. I would just be assuming.

What I do know is that they had their car chief ejected through the first round of tech when they were when they unloaded. So they were already short on people. But, you know, you just never know what can happen to your, to your vehicle during the course of a race or anything like that. So I don't know. I just know that, you know, he feels very adamant that, you know, there was nothing wrong with his vehicle and, you know, how the procedures in which they took, the NASCAR officials took post-race, I think they're in large disagreements with. and that they probably believe caused the back of his vehicle to be too low. So I don't know, you just have to kind of wait on the facts on that one, but that blows for him.

I mean, it's such a tough thing for him because he's maybe going to win an exfini race and that didn't work. and, you know, we were talking about, like, when's the caution getting thrown? And then now this truck race where you went on the biggest stage at the biggest track, and, you know, he has a chance to lose that as well. I love that he kept the flag. Always keep the flag. Guys, if you get DQed, do not give up the flag. They'll ask for the trophy back, but tell them they want another flag.

Better print another one because I'm taking that home. So where's your flag at? The Pocono? Yeah. Dad got it. I give my dad most all the flags. And then lastly, Jesse love Wednesday, X-FINny race on Saturday night. Great drive by Jesse.

Yeah, it looked like it was going to kind of be a battle with him and Austin Hill. Austin Hill just did a great job of like controlling that race and shocking. I know. I know he's got a fast car. but still you see that his super speedway IQ is just higher than everyone who's racing against. So, I mean, if I were his competitors, I would just study what is he doing? That's how you get on that level. Unfortunately for him, he had a mechanical issue that, you know, you could kind of see that it was inevitably going to happen.

He had grease or something all over the right rear wheel. So you knew that that was a ticking. time bomb that wasn't going to make it. So stunk for him, but Jesse drove a fantastic race and exciting finish. And yeah, it was cool to see them get a win. I've got a review here from Justin Napier. He says, they used to be a Dale Jr. fan until his retirement. I didn't know who to pull for anymore. This podcast turned me into a Denny fan. Best of luck in 2025, hoping to see you get that championship. I'll be in Bristol again this year with my 11 year on. I appreciate that.

you know thank you for tuning in and uh sorry i was denny downer today but i don't know i feel like you know sometimes i got to get it out right and you know i didn't want to keep this all bottled in of like you know my disappointment for kind of where we're at right now with things but man i just uh it's frustrating certainly that uh we can't get a clean finish for our day 200 our most prestigious race just can't seem to get it to the finish line in a proper manner

but it's it's on us drivers. We're the ones doing it and you know we again we're going to get backed by by everyone that just says well that's super speedway racing so

might as well keep doing it. I have a question are we going to get a motto this year? We are. I mentioned on the media day podcast by Bianchi and Gluck that like it's got to hit it's going to hit me of what it's going to be but I don't want to rush it I just feel like you know all in like was perfect and this is just not the week for me to say all in if you know what I mean you know what I mean I just you know I need I need you know, hey, if you got some suggestions, bring them my way.

Try to make it with two Ls. That way we can use the 11. Maybe I'll steal it and give you credit for it. But I just, nothing is really felt right. But we're not, that doesn't mean we won't have one. Your kids are spending this week at the happiest place on Earth. Maybe you should get back down there sooner than you initially planned on. If you want to put me in a worse mood, send me to Disney World.

I mean, I could not imagine That sounds like hell They're gonna be five days Down there There is not a male human On the planet That would enjoy five days in Disney So when do they get there?

They're there They're there Like today's their first day? They're gonna do two days So how soon to a rest day in Disney Springs And then I'll be there Thursday and Friday How soon do you get a call from Jordan that Taylor and Molly had just a breakdown.

Meltdown? Yeah. Tonight. It's just that's, I know what it. It's just I don't get it. Why? I mean, she was telling me about this and I just says, and she could see the anxiety coming on my face and I was like,

she's like, I said, this sounds, this is my worst nightmare. This is my absolute worst night. luckily for me, I've never been so happy to go to work this week. Like, I, you know, I've got, I got, I've got meetings. I've got to, I'm late by the way, since, yeah, I'm 20 minutes late to 2311 meeting. I just, yeah, I said, I'll catch you on the back end of it. Once I'm done my work for the week, I'll catch you on Thursday, Friday before Atlanta. To be fair, last week before Daytona, Emily and I went to Disney Park, Hollywood Studios for a day. And while I did very much enjoy the day there. I was thinking while I was there, I was like, holy shit, I can't imagine that parents

do this in the summer when kids are out of school for multiple days. Going there without kids is lunacy, Jared. What are you doing? I don't care if it's for a day or not. Every once every couple years is fun. No. Oh, yeah. That's a debate for another day. It is. It is. All right. Well, we got Atlanta next week. Right. Do we know, tune in. Is this a FS1 or Fox? I think it's Fox again. Yes? I don't know.

We don't know. But it's on Sunday. Make sure you guys tune in. It's fun Fox. It's on Fox. Okay, great. Next weekend, Fox on Sunday, tune in for Atlanta. Hopefully we have a, I hope I'm not grumpy after Atlanta.

This wasn't fun for me today. Okay? I want to be happy. Let's write this ship in the next seven days, okay? It was a good podcast. Maybe two days in Disney will change my outlook. It's helpful. All right, guys.

We'll see you.