Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Debating NASCAR's Playoffs with Steve Letarte

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Denny Hamlin and his co-host Jared Allen are joined by NBC’s Steve Letarte to recap the NASCAR Championship weekend. Before getting to the races, Denny talks about blowing a lead in golf against Michael Jordan. In the Xfinity Series, Justin Allgaier finally got the monkey off his back and won his first championship. But it wasn’t easy thanks to a crash in practice, a restart penalty, and a speeding penalty.In the Cup Series, it was Joey Logano collecting his third championship. When it comes to the current Playoff format, the 22 team has written the book on how to succeed. The only car that could hang with Logano was his teammate Ryan Blaney, who ran out of laps to try and pass Logano.Team Penske has won the last 3 championships and it has left HMS, JGR, and others wondering what they have to do to find speed at Phoenix.The guys take a look at the current Playoff and discuss changes that could be made to make it better. Letarte gives out his ideal Playoff format.Plus, what happened with the pace car on Sunday and NASCAR says goodbye to Martin Truex Jr. racing full-time. And, how did Denny get sued as a 11-year-old riding a bike? For more Actions Detrimental content head to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It was a great weekend overall. Three deserving champions and a successful overall championship weekend. I clip that, Travis. Then he just said we had three deserving champions on that day. On that day, I said I thought I would have been fine with the 22 or 12 winning. I thought they had the fastest cars, speed. And on that day, given the format, they deserve to win it based off of this format. Podcast title, three deserving champs.

I wouldn't go that far The following is a production of Dirtymoe Media Hey guys, welcome to action detrimental post-Fenix championship weekend We crowned three champions this past weekend I was not one of them But it was the wrap-up of the season

Season's over I'm happy about that The grind is finally over This is definitely the busiest year I think I've ever had, certainly, with just everything going on and some other things as well. But yeah, just happy that the season's over. How about you, Jared? I'm happy as well.

As our guest here, Steve Lassart, just asked me how many race I did this year. I feel guilty in saying 37 because it's the first year I haven't done 38. Don't feel guilty because I'm at like, 23 or 24. Are you to miss any? This year? Yeah. Or previous years. This year.

This year I didn't go to New Hampshire. Okay. I knew you took one. But in previous years, I have not. That's my argument. Previous years. For 20 years, I didn't miss any. So now I miss 10 or 15 every year.

Well, those y'all that know that voice, Steve LaTart here from NBC Sports. I mean, you work for everyone. I did. It's easier that way. Everybody, just cover them all. Cover all your bases. I'm trying to, you know, ding down your resume here. It's just like the guy works for all NASCAR media outlets.

Man, listen, I got two kids. in college. If somebody needs racing to be covered or talked about, I'm the guy. And we got a game this afternoon. That's right. You need a little scratch so you can lose something to me. I know, and you and Chop won the Football League. I'm coming in behind. You guys already got a cushion. This is problematic. Speaking of golf, I had Michael Dead Rites on Thursday.

We played Silver Leaf. Smashed them all day. And then you know what happens. Press last three holes. He pars out. I do not. So we went out and we played with DJ. He made an ace. made an ace on Wednesday. Here's the most Dale Jarrett thing ever. He goes out, throwing it, you've played with him. So you've seen this.

Throwing clubs, mad, makes an ace on 12 par three. Birdie's 17 par three to shoot 87. He was so miserable, clubbing the air, didn't even want to talk about it. Oh, yeah. That's him. Damn. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Michael comes from behind to beat you in golf. Well, he was telling the world.

I don't want to tell Denny this. I want that NASCAR money. Oh, yeah. I want that NASCAR money. that's what he says he stopped DJ on on pit road to tell him the story so we i already knew that he flipped you because he was telling everybody god dang it it was i it was i just dominated them all day you know what was the most impressive thing amad rashad is 74 years old and he hits the ball 280 280 yards unbelievable it's the most amazing thing so he stepped up and he kind of yeah he's

not sprinting to the T-box, right? He's walking. He's 70 years old playing golf. That's impressive. He sits the ball down like, all right, well, you know, because Dwight Freeney's in the group, he hits it 300 something. And I'm like, well, I won't be the shortest guy in this group. And Ahmad smashes it.

I just, I guess he bikes. They said 20 miles a day. Does a bunch of meditation and whatnot. Holy cow. It was amazing to see. I mean, it's 74. I'm not going to be able to play golf. I mean, but that guy could probably lift a truck for the first half of his life, you know?

I guess. Is he one of the most underrated athletes? People forget. After seeing what I saw, I'll say yes. That's a good point, though. But he's been in the media world for so long. People have forgot that what he did in his, like, athlete career. Yeah.

And then we also had been Herman, the owner of the golf club. And, I mean, he, I think he shot 67 or 66. He's my member, member guest at the Grove in December. So the stories of Ben Herman that I've heard is that John Rom was asked. Have you heard this story? No. John Rom was asked by the golf channel or somebody. No, it started with Ben Herman.

It was some pro-am or something. You know, he owed Silver Leaf, hey, this is the guy. He goes, who do you normally play? We play with John Rom. And they say, oh, how many strokes does you give you? And he said, none. We played heads up from the back. Five out of ten times I can beat him.

And everybody was this was John Ron. was number one in the world at the time and they all was like no chance no chance so they took the mike walk down range same like cut of video so john ben just said this and he goes i think it's more like six out of ten so he's apparently a stick because john rom gave him this due huge i mean it was wait a second so he's your partner and y'all don't win what's the problem no he will be my partner oh yeah you didn't get him last year member member okay in december so who you don't glad he's on my side i was gonna say no pressure. He just murders the ball. It's just crazy. And he's accurate too. So, um, well, let's get into the weekend. Um, let's start with the trucks. Ty Majeski winning in the title

there. Is anybody surprised? Um, I'm not one. I guess I was a little bit. I just, I don't know, I got so caught up in the last half of the season being Corey Heim and, and, uh, Christian Nekkes, just kind of dominating win the most races, things like that, that you forget, well, it's a mile or shorter track. Here comes Ty Majesky. That's his bread and butter, right? This conversation is going to continue because that's really the conversation, right? You question if it ran Martinsville, a one mile and a two mile, if it's Time

of Jeski who wins on the average. But at a one mile track, there was no doubt in my mind. He was the favorite. Yeah, I think that the schedule, you know, certainly is a big factor in who we crowned champions for sure but i just uh you know they brought they brought a really fast truck i mean nobody was even i didn't see anyone remotely close uh that the 11 was the closest and i was watching lap times and if he could stay within two tents that was a good lap for him you need to get control you kind of lost control and then it was game over i think he might of kind of what we saw on sunday right

blaney and legan whoever had control i think hym had a chance to hold him off but i don't think he had any chance to pass him yeah i thought that that that race kind of had the biggest spread from fastest to slowest of the championship for grand infinger obviously was struggling most of the race um you know i just thought that uh you know man anything can happen maybe they're one adjustment away no you know and then you know and cori really got the breaks he needed to get back into the picture right because had you know he had that uh i guess the restart violation, right? And then he had a really good restart caution. Really good restart caution. So everything kind of played out perfectly for him to get back into the game. But the fastest driver and

truck won on that day for sure. I agree. Majesky was a favorite at that track. He got it done. I'm good with him. I thought, I agree the other two won more races, but Ty's a good driver. Yeah. Good spokesman. Yep. Yeah, I agree. Especially, you know, there was a lot to make about him missing his media. day to go vote in Wisconsin. So, you know, it was a... 12 grand's a lot of money for a truck driver. I had no question about it. No question about it.

What do you think the fine would be for you if you skipped it? Like a cup driver skipped their immediate day. I'm not sure. It's probably in the rulebook somewhere. It's got to be 100 grand. 75 or 100. What do you think Echis is thinking about? I know he said he doesn't regret it, but like you had Majesky out of it.

Yeah, you knocked Taylor Gray out of the way. Oh, yeah. would put Majesky in. I mean, you can't think about it in that moment, but I don't know. I've never been in a situation in the playoffs where I haven't thought about if this guy, who's it taking, you know, if this guy goes in, who goes out? Like, I'm always thinking about, well, who's my competition going to be, right? Even when a competitor wins a super speedway race in the regular season or something, you know,

So someone that has, are way back in points, it's like, ah, well, my path to the championship's not really going to run through them. So it's like, eh, it's not terrible. So I just think that certainly, you know, Christian seemed very adamant that, listen, this win meant more than, you know, thinking about whether I need to put this guy in or that guy out. So, yeah, I mean, I almost applaud the fact that he did it, not that I love the move, but to what Denny just said that, you know, in the end. We talk about everything, but I think we overlook how much a trophy means. Guys like you and Lars, some of you do it so often that when you see younger drivers or even much older, now look at Kyle Bush, right, who didn't win for the first time in 19. You know, it had been 19 straight years.

He didn't win in his 20th year what he would give for a trophy. I think sometimes, especially us in the media, I maybe sometimes gloss over what a win looks like because there's such a bigger picture at times. Justin Algeyer wins the NASCAR Xfinity Championship So happy for Justin And he had to earn it Wow, he had to earn it I mean, let me take that back

It wasn't only luck, but he needed some luck Right, and he got it That's right Yeah, he um Did he have He had a restart? Restart and then serving his restart violation He sped

I was mid sentence I'm like look, he's not going to lose a lap He's going to be fine and right in the middle, I'm like, oh, cancel all that. He just sped. He's in big trouble now. Cannot do that. That's just the number one.

I saw him last night. He said he sped in the box where he was pitting. So they set their lights for the corner. Yep. And as the radius tightens up in the corner, they would go up on lights. And his guy, Pullman had him like, you know, because he knows he's going to turn left

and break up whatever section it was. But because he didn't pit under the penalty, he ran the same lights and there was no decal into his box. So that's where he got busted. You know what I mean? So whatever, I'm going to make this up. Say he was five reds and jumped to seven reds because he's getting into the box. That's right.

Well, he jumped to seven reds, but there was no pitting. So he just drove through the last box too fast. Oh, that's a detail, but it's like when you're in that moment. That's right. I mean, you always, Chris Gabe Har always says, you go to the racetrack, you lose 20 numbers of IQ. Yeah, because everything going on, right? I put that on, and I hate it because I love Jim and I love his spotter, but he needs some help in that situation. You know, someone needs to be like, hey, run one light less.

We're going to be fine. We're not going to lose a lap. Somebody needs to, you know, because he's flipping out on the radio about the restart violation. Someone has to, like, de-escalate the situation very quickly. I mean, you'd be hard-pressed on a cup team for someone to recognize in that short amount of time. That could easily happen. Yeah. Well, he came back.

He caught a caution that happened because he was one lap down, right? How did he get the lucky to – So here's what happened. He was the tail end of one down. So what happened? is he pitted, then got his penalty, pitted again, and that put him out there like one lap down. But then it was running and the leader was lapping cars. So he never got to the lucky dog position. So then we get into a green flag cycle. Oh yeah, this is how lucky he gets. In a green flag cycle,

he pits. And as he's leaving pit road or like a lap after he leaves pit road, the caution comes out. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which then puts him back on the lead lap. Like it's a, it was a whole thing. Wow. I, yeah, we were traveling. back to the house to watch the end of this. I was intently watching as much as I could. And I couldn't figure out in that moment. I was like, wait a minute, how did he get back on the lead lap now? So, because I knew he was kind of borderline two laps down before that whole cycle started.

So, wow, that was such a break. But he took advantage of it. I mean, I don't think we would argue that he didn't have the best car. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Primary. We haven't even touched the fact that he wrecked his primary in lap four. And I talked about this in the media center that, you know, this is kind of the tough part about a one race, you know, crowning a champion because look how it's just unlucky just now.

I got right. Someone goes in there and they spin or they blow up and, you know, he gets caught in a wreck and now he's, you know, his best car is sitting in the tailgate. So he's probably going to have a tough go at it. But, you know, they put put some great speed into that backup car. And he, man, you could tell right from the very first run of the day, he drove right to the top 10 and 26. laps. He was going to be someone to break him. Well, and the best move of the day was the movie didn't make, which is going down the

backstretch with Herps left rear or left front smoking for the win. And he drove in and was like, oh, no, no, no, no, you just go ahead. I want no part of whatever you're thinking. I saw that. Last win for SHR. Like, good move letting him go. Yeah, and they were on his, in his ear telling him, you know, you're good here. We don't need that.

No, you don't need it. You know that Riley really wants this one. and Riley had the best car of the day. I mean, he dominated that race. He pulled away every time he got up front. Man, he had a lot of speed, which is interesting that the double zero didn't have the speed that the 98 did. 98 passed to double zero must have been four or five times during the day. So that was awesome for Riley.

Great for Justin Algeyer, someone that has been doing this now. I think this was his 14th year or something like that. Yeah, the seventh try. Seventh try. Yeah. I mean, make of that the second to last restart when he was the sixth,

the third row back, and he gets to the lead, and then their caution comes out. Yeah, there was a key moment and one of that being when the, I was very surprised to see the 21 car take two tires.

They were... He only had two left. Oh, really? Well, hold on, back up. The 21 only had scuffs to begin with, and they only had two. Because he had something happened in the middle of the, after the weekend, my mind's a mess. But he only had rights left.

So he had issues earlier with something. So this is the problem I have a tire count. Because I was thinking, well, he's historic, he's had the best pick crew all year long. I know. See, that's the problem I have a tire count. I appreciate what it does to the racing. But it affects, you know, like for this race, man, I'd love to see him just get one more. I mean, they already have four, maybe five for the championship guys. Yeah. Just because you don't want, like, you run over a stinking rivet. And that's going to be what ends your chance. It's already so rough. That's true, and that's what can happen, right? I'll give the other teams a little credit, because after Justin had that wreck in practice, NASCAR went to the other teams, and they agreed to give everybody an extra set. If I was the other teams, I'm saying, no, the seven teams stuck with what they got.

During practice, they gave it to them so they could get their backup cars out there and get them rolling. Yeah, I mean, I don't. Yeah, that's all Wayne Aughton. I mean, he's really got the pulse of the garage. Whatever garage he's in, he's got the pulse of it. He's going to be missed because that was his last race,

So 38 years, he's retiring. I agree with Danny. I think Wayne asked that question where you don't really answer. Hey, I'm going to do this. Is that okay? The answer should be yes. That's right. Yeah.

And so I couldn't figure out for the life of me. All right, the 20 was in, but which car was out of the championship? I think we figured that. Double zero. Double zero, right? So I thought it was just such a compelling race. And even if it didn't have those cautions at the end, it was so compelling because when Justin Algar got around Cole Custer, he couldn't pull away.

And, you know, everyone that I was watching in the house with says, oh, it's over now. It's, you know, three to go or four to go or something like that. And the seven had just taken the lead. I said, no, no, no. The advantage in the Xfinity cars is for the guy behind because you can constantly keep that front car loose to where he never gets away from you. Where the cup, it's very opposite. The leader's got just the massive, massive advantage. but you could see that the double zero kept driving in there and getting the seven loose so he couldn't get away

and so it was going to be very compelling to see how that last couple laps played out but it still ended up just you know top notch finish there at the end and just noggar owes connor zillich a bit of a thank you yeah Connor was uh he was dicing it up i would say no more or less than what say Kyle arson was on sunday right and so i mean listen there's can talk about it, but there was probably a handful of guys with chips on their shoulders going in a Sunday saying, I should be here, not these guys. It looked different. Yeah, from the window, it looked different. They were not going to just pull over and let those guys go. This Al-Gaior championship, though, is just a testament to what you always talk about, Danny. It's just to put yourself in position year after year after year after year and eventually the fortune will just all fall your way and you'll win. But, you know, the thing is I thought he was the most, you know, the most,

deserving, you know, champion, not necessarily just kind of, this year, yes. You would definitely say him and Cole were the cream of the crop. You had Austin Hill, he won some races in there, yes. The 16 got their first win to get them into the final four. But, you know, the double zero of the seven, I would have no issue. Either one of those guys win the championship. I just thought generally that weekend. The seven showed me everything that a champion would on a given weekend. And that is that he was fast. He overcame adversity.

And he won the race in an exciting fashion at the end. So I think it is less of his standout versus Ty Majeski and trucks, but look where they ran also. I mean, he blew a tire with three to go with like a five-second lead there in the spring. And when I sat down with the four guys, four Xfinity drivers last week, that's what they all basically said. Like they were not conceding, but they're like, look, the seven's going to be the fastest. Like, man to man, he is absolutely going to be the fastest.

We're going to have to find a way to beat him. Now, it was way more up and down to get there. But in the end, it was the fastest. Yeah. And in the end, the double zero 21 and those guys, they're thinking when the seven's having his adversity, not only during practice, but in the middle of the race, he's got black flagged, black flagged again. It's like, okay, now which one of us are going to. Right. That's what I mean is if you think that one of those things is going to be the nail on the coffin

that's just going to make it too tough to overcome. Yeah. And you know, I just, you can't say enough about the actual drive that Justin did. I just, I watched him. I saw how he set people up. I mean, he wanted it. He wanted it bad and it's good to see you got rewarded with the championship. Sunday, Joey Legano?

Joe Ligano. Man, they, um, they, um, they did everything right. All I can say is they qualified the best. They had the best short run speed. He had the best restart of any of the guys on that final restart, and he won a championship. I think that there was no doubt going into the weekend.

I thought that the 12 would be the fastest. And in practice, you would say 12 was the fastest. 22 was right there next to him. But I thought that generally speaking, 22 just executed the day slightly better and had a tremendous short run car and restart. And then the 12 had a tremendous long run car and just flat out ran out laps. Did you know that Ryan Blaney has not finished outside the top five? Yes. I mean, I'm well aware. At Phoenix? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, this, this schedule works out well. I mean, what's so interesting.

thing is though we lap Joe Lugano in the spring. I remember that. And then the 12 he was good but not great in the spring. Not like they've been over the last three years in a row at

the championship race. So it's just very interesting to me. So I don't know if it's conscious or subconscious. I'm not smart enough to know where it comes from. But Lugano and Paul Wolf's numbers are like postseason, all postseason.

I mean, Lugano has like 35 wins. I want to say 15 are in the playoffs. He won four races this year, three were in the playoffs. Like, I don't think it's, I really don't believe they sit down and they say, okay, we're going to be great here. No. You know, everybody wants to be. But there's something about Paul Wolf and Joey, and I'm not going to separate

them because they've done this together. However they operate, however they prepare either like conscious, like I said, consciously or just subconsciously, they are, without a doubt, they are Jimmy Johnson-esque when it comes to playoff numbers, career percentage of wins in the playoffs, everything he has been great at. We talk a lot about this format. He has won three in this format. Like, he's won three in the championship four elimination. Like, that's impressive. Well, let's go back to his first. His first, it was the big three and then Joey. Yeah, big three and me. That was the quote. Right. So they just said, okay, Holmes said, everybody's so worried about the long run, screw it.

We're going to build the fastest car we can for 10 laps. And then let's just see how it all works out. And they had a short run at the end. They won the race. It was the same. They've written the book to how to get through these playoffs and win it. Obviously, they've got the riddled to it. But it looks the same.

And it was the same that year is that he was not stellar in the regular season by any means. but then found a way, and he really performed well in the playoffs, and then they built a ridiculously fast short-run car at Homestead wins the championship. Three years ago, he went to Phoenix. I don't know his path to there, but the regular season was not good. He was non-existent through the regular season. I mean, there'd go races, you didn't even know he's in it. and then they find the path to Phoenix

and they get there and they show up and they're great. They were great. Ryan Blaney would argue did the same thing last year. I thought we ran off all of his finishes that were 12 in a row of like 11th or worse or nine or it was a lot of really poor finishes

and not just, you know, 35th, you know something happened. They were just not good, not fast. and then won the championship. And then this year, the 22 does the same thing. So it's like, okay, I understand the formula, but I don't know how to do that, nor what I want to. I want to get as many bonus points as I can do the regular season

because we've seen it. You need every single point. Well, let's not forget Ligano was out. Like, I don't want to go back and relive it, but Ligano did not make it out of the round of eight. he was eliminated. To your point about bonus points, back to exactly what you're saying

in the blueprint. Now look, he deserved to be, we don't have to relive the Charlotte thing. He deserved to be in. I'm not trying to peel that band-aid off. But the lack of points eliminated him. The one round he didn't win, he didn't advance on points.

And in that same race, I came on this podcast, and I gave due credit to the 22 team for stepping up during the roval. It's not often you run top five in all the stages and in the race, and he did it. you know, again, with the same formula, he was really good in the short run, not so good in the long run.

But they found a way to be great at a track that he's okay. You never put him in the top, you know, echelon of the road course guys, especially at Charlotte. But he did it, and he stepped up. Now, it wasn't good enough on that day, right? But then it ended up being good enough. That's right, it was. So it was just so interesting to me. You know, how they do it.

I just don't understand how. they answer a distant question the most. So the question that I think they answer is how do we win? And a lot of people do, I know it sounds crazy and people like that doesn't make any sense. But look, I've done this for 20 years. You're continuing to do this. You know, I think you guys answer that question a little bit as well. Right. The five's answer is how do we be the fastest? And they just wear you out. I mean, that's kind of what they do. That's their signature. William Byron, I think, is a little bit like Ligano, right? How does the 24 win on this day? And when I look at the 22's races, and I think Joey's racing IQ is as high as anyone's. How do we win on this day? Because their wins are fuel mileage, raw speed, short runs.

Like, I think Paul, yeah, they look at the puzzle and they say, okay, well, you know, if we think we're going to gain enough speed to just outrun the five all day, then we're, like, we're already behind. So where is he weak? Where can we beat him? And they just try to find and just kind of hope a little bit that the race falls their way. Right. I mean, that's Las Vegas, right?

They were not going to win that race if they stayed on the strategy that everyone else was there. No chance. They already got into that round because of Bowman getting disqualified. So it's like, well, why not? If this works, then we look like here. So for the list of, let's do the quick review. Round of 16, they win race one at Atlanta. Atlanta, yep.

So then they cruise on into the round of 12. The round of 12 is where they didn't. I said the round of eight, I misspoke. The round of 12, they didn't get out of. That was the roval. with a win. They end up getting out on points

because of the 48, right? Then they go to the round of eight, win the first race. Then they go to the championship race and win. So I mean,

other than a win in the round of 12, they almost swept the board. And he won in Vegas in 22 also. That's correct. The fall? Yes. No, in 22,

they won the first round of the round to get to the championship. And so then they just start working on Phoenix and they have two-week advantage. So I guess, Steve,

my question is, and you're the crew chief, you're the one that puts the car together. It's, how do you find, and especially in next-gen era, how do you find that much speed overnight? Well, so I don't think the 22 was the best car. The 12 was the best.

I think the 22 and the 24 had almost the same speed. I would argue that. The 22, I'm telling you, the Green Flag Run, this was probably 150 to go. I came out right in front of them. He pitted one lap later. He passed me and drove all the way to lead. This was the end.

end of stage two. I was running fifth or six. He drove, he passed me, past the next guy. I mean, just motored up there and nearly one stage two.

This is when Bell and Blaney were battling. And so at that point, I'm like, holy shit. I'm not even remotely in that league. Or, you know, I'm sitting here trying to figure out,

how can I go a couple hundreds faster every lap? And I mean, he just goes by me and leaves me in the dust. So something flipped because practice at 12 is the best. start of the race of 12 was the best of the championship four I'm talking and then I remember saying it on air and I think it was the run you're talking about I'm going to guess it was stage two maybe early stage three the 22 passed the 12 on the racetrack

that's the first time the 12 had been passed all day by anyone yes the first pass and he never we talked about control probably in two weeks yeah but Martin's maybe he ain't passed in 12 either but so think about this is what the like watching these races and this is why I make such a big deal about that pass that was it people don't want to believe it. That was the pass for the championship. That was the pass that never came back.

That was the position Ryan never got. So when you watch your driver who wrecks it like lap 200 and you want to know why he's battling the guy because that was the championship pass. He never flipped positions the rest of the day. And then Joey did what Joey did. Like he on the last restart, he got out in clean air. He had to battle a couple guys to get there and then he used it. And then it just took Blaney too much to get through.

I thought, I'll admit, purely off data, this thing was over, in my mind with 15 to go, and it was over for the 12 to win it. Like, there was no chance. If you go back and look at lap times, something happened, and I don't know what it is, and I want to ask Lugano himself, because he was running like flats. And Blaney's running 70s, all day, 80s. And all of a sudden, the 22 runs like a 75, a 77, and an 81. And it was like 9 or 10 to go.

Those three laps were the championship. If those three laps don't happen, Blaney gets there earlier. It is crazy. I think, as a driver, I think about this. And I'm like, I've been in that scenario. I've been searching, right? I've had the lead with 20 to go and the guy's two seconds back. And I know what lap time gets me this win without taking unnecessary risk and having a blowup lap where I get loose in.

I give up a second one. I can't do that. I can bleed a tenth of... And they told him on the radio, you can give up a tenth a lap. Like, they gave him an instruction with like 20 to go. So more than likely,

I think that he probably was running 95%. And then when he saw the 12 cutting into that, he probably says, okay, I've got to take whatever risk it is. I've got to drive in deeper, whatever it might be. And he just,

he had that extra speed to go. I think he just was trying to get to the finish at 20 to go with a two-second lead. I was impressed. I had no problem with the people racing them as hard as they did for position. And I won't lie. I had anxiety. I started to see the back of the field and some drivers and teams that we don't see all the time.

And I was like, please. So I can see at Phoenix. I can look through the glass. There's an empty booth and then NASCAR. And, you know, I kind of always look down there. Well, with 20 to go, you look down. And I'm going to give NASCAR credit this. They're all standing, like, all the very important people at NASCAR are standing and they're pointing.

And like in my mind, I'm thinking they're like, make sure the spotter on this car knows. You have every right to be out here all year long, but we have 20 to go for a championship. And they actually did. They all pulled way over. They let it kind of happen. So I don't know whether it was publicly stated or not, but did you, I mean, NASCAR said, evidently they say this pretty often.

At the end of the Martinsville race, they came on the radio and told the spotters, if it is not your day, get out of the way and let the cars through. I have heard it before. I didn't know if that was consistent or not. So, I, you know, when we get into the whole race manipulation thing, we've covered it last week. But I just found it very interesting. I said, wait a minute. NASCAR said, what?

They said, if it's not your day, get out of the way, let the cars through. And it was like, I wonder who are they speaking to. So in my mind, I don't know who they're speaking to, but I have no problem with that message if they are speaking to people that are not on the lead lap. Because if you're on the lead lap, unlike a golf tournament, you can't make up 20 strokes in the last hole. Racing, you can. You could, caution can come out. You could stay out. You could be, I mean, anything can happen.

It's your lap's down. So if that same message got relayed at Phoenix, it, you know, more than likely. I hope so. Yeah. You got, I think it was, was it the 15 or 51, the 7 and Chase Briscoe got out of there. Corey. He was the first guy. Corey, so poor Corey, he was not having a good day in the 51.

Pitted had fresh tires and something like hit him. Like he drove by somebody to 12 and drove by the next guy, drove by the next day. And he passed Ligano. and it must have hit him. And he, you know, I don't know if somebody told me as a little. But it was so obvious. He was like, oh, my bad. And he pulled over in the straightaway, and he kind of got behind the 22.

And he rode there for a while. And when the 12 was close enough, he got out of the way for the 12 as well. That's the most awkward time as a driver I'm thinking about is that I think the 47 did it with us towards the end of the race. But he was ultimate gentleman. He knew we were kind of racing. So he came out on pit road on fresh tires, like 20, 30 lap tires. and it's like,

like, he gets right in the middle of our battle, and he just wants to just go ahead and go, but he can't because his car's been off all day, right? So he's faster for those first five, ten laps, and then the pace of his car catches up to him, and the next thing he knows right in the middle of our battle. And so it's such a tough, stay behind it to begin with, right? It's just a tough spot to be in when you're having a tough bad day,

is your crucci puts you out there in fresh tires, and it's like, I can't use them because I don't want to get in the middle of all these races, going on. There was a couple times in my career that I wouldn't like lay it up, but I'd key the mic and be like, yeah, I see it. No, just you can, yeah, just do what you think. That's kind of like, hey, don't do it for us. Like, if you want to lift, you have to look all these other drivers in their face. Just get out of the way. Yeah. So it was a great job by those guys that we just said to get out the way and let those two battle it out. And I thought, I thought the 12 would have a little bit more left. But like you said, you're looking at lap times. You saw the 22 just stepped up.

There was, yeah, there's three laps. And look, I thought the 24 finish worth, they should have. He's the one that actually got the best break. You know, he was on the front row with the restart that Lugano. I thought the bingo card landed right in the line. Right on them. So everybody pits about 10 or 12 laps later, the 24 pits. He runs one corner on the Kasha comes out.

His two teammates are on the racetrack. So then they pit. Long story short, you have half-lap tires, two cars with fresh tires that are also your teammates. And then everyone else. I thought this was the 24's day. But corner one lap one, Chase didn't have anything for him. They blew Chase off in the first corner. And then Larson, I'll give him credit.

He drove everybody as hard as he could. Hell, he was side by side with the 24 at one point. Like, I don't think he cared. They just weren't good enough. They just weren't fast enough. I agree with you. I think I tried to explain it after the race. They said, you know, what more do you need?

What did you think about 45? And I was like, you know, listen, I had the same set of 45 had on all weekend. and we acted kind of as a quasi-teammate to them to try to give him any information that we could. And I said, I felt like I was riding a horse and he just had a sprained ankle. Like it just, it was pretty good. It really was, but it just didn't have the speed

that the fastest cars had. And I thought that the only cars we couldn't run with was the 22 and the 12th. Everyone else, I think we drove up to 5th, at that one point. The 24 has come back to me. I was about to pass him for the end of the stage. And the 20, he was probably the best Toyota.

But there was just at no point, especially when that 22 went by me, that I think I had the capability to tell my team to get me that on that day. So I'm just trying to optimize my day at that point. But it was like, we've got work to do. You know, if there's something that, you know, they just have better than the rest of us.

And when you heard Jeff Gordon, I believe he made comments after the race. He's like, we've been for a year we've been working on this racetrack. We haven't won the championship in three years here. You know, and it's just, it's a little demoralizing because they spent, Hendrick Motorsports spent so much time on it. I know Joe Gibbs Racing spends time on Phoenix.

But there's nobody, as long as they hold the championship race at Phoenix, It's hard for me to say that, you know, the favorite's not going to come out of Penske as long as they get there. I do need a little something different at Phoenix, though. Tire, like, it was from the booth. It was, like, I'll be the first guy. So I hate when I see a good race, everybody says it was a bad race. And the drivers, you know, Danny and I will disagree on those at times because from where he sits, sometimes it isn't a good race. But I'm from the fan standpoint.

I'm like, I disagree. That was entertaining. This one was a little sleepy, right? Like a second of falloff wasn't really enough to... Everyone's saying that this is the best you're going to get at Phoenix. I don't think that's easy to say. It can always be better. They said the same thing about Martinsville,

and that was the best Martinsville we've had in five years. That's my point, is that they dramatically changed the Martinsville tire, and we would not disagree that that was a different race than what we've seen. On the old tire, Ryan Blamey doesn't win. Oh, no question. Well, first of all, nobody pits that many times, so you can't untangle it. But Chase Elliott or whoever that, heck that was the head control of the race he just drives out yeah like it's over here's my thing i don't

think that you're going to change phoenix and it's going to all of a sudden race like miami because it's not it's phoenix but that doesn't mean it can't this is like the crew chief driver argument all the time right like you can always be faster trust me well the race can always be better it doesn't have to even be a bad race like i don't i wouldn't label this as a bad race i just wouldn't leave saying okay that's good enough i think it needs to be worked on i i think that The market has everything else is my point. Great weather, big feel. I flew out there commercial.

You land championship four drivers. I agree. Like Phoenix, Miami, they're big markets. They're champion. Super Bowls, the whole nine yards. The track, I was all about it. Scottsdale one time. You knew the championship four were in town.

That's, I think, all we can ask for. The place sold out months in advance. The place gets rewarded because the fans turn out there every time. They always do. Can you feel like because I'm up there in the booth and it's obvious to me for you guys down there on the grid like when you walk out there can you I mean it looks great. Yes. It's it's a great venue. I hate it that the racing is not better because it is a great. It's a great racetrack. The layout's very unique. It gives us some options on restarts. We got we're racing multiple lanes. But it's we have a car problem right. And we're trying to fix it through some other things and, you know, know, we can talk about what the fix is, but I believe in my heart of hearts, we've got to get

the back of the cars up so the rear car can manipulate the spoiler of the front car, like the Xfinity cars. But right now, we're just, we plant the back. And then you just, there's no effect that the rear car has on the front car. We've got to make it to where the back car can manipulate the front car. That's what, that's how passes get made. 90% of Xfinity passes get by so much as jamming their nose right behind somebody gets them loose boom goes on by them i agree with you the tire could be better um it's you know we know we're going to have phoenix in the championship race next year uh naskar stated that you know the playoffs are here to stay it's interesting though that they left the window open to but we could tweak yeah and you know what does that mean right

because yeah i don't know what's going on uh in their minds certainly We said on this podcast, what do we say if Joey Lugano won their championship? There would be outrage. And there has been. And for right or wrong. Now, I will say this, you got to give Joey Lugano due because he, in my mind, he executed the best that day. And I would have been fine with a 22 or 12 champion on that day.

So here's my problem with outrage. People don't want to look at the numbers. He went in the second most races. They just want him to beat Kyle Larson because he would have beat Kyle Arson if he was out there too. So he would have still won four and Larson still had. to 1-6 and the 22 still would have been the champion, I believe. But people just want them to do something in the regular season.

Like he's like... Yeah, so Steve, that's my question is that what it seems as though this format is doing is delegitima. Help me out here. That's a nice. That's more of... De-legitimitizing the regular season. There's too many cars that get in.

Because, well, that... So I agree to that. I have a, you know, so I'm... So here's my question. This is like the college football argument. We knew we were going to talk about... Oh, yes. Cannonball right in. I'm ready. Is that, okay, again, I left race day thinking the 12 or 22 wins this race off of what I've seen.

That's the most deserving, right? I think that they, you know, had the 24-1 because he got that lucky break and then just fending them off. I don't know. Maybe it leaves a little bit more of bitter. taste of my mouth, but I thought the best two cars battled it out there at the end in that one race, in the one race, right? Let's just forget the rest of the season. But we got to talk about the regular, the rest of the season because it's not as though in my mind we want to throw mud on the 22 and their team and their path, right? They were the Cinderella story, I guess you could say,

because they were always at the bottom every round that reset. You don't want to stop Cinderella stories from happening. But how can you reward teams like the five that just were the best or the 40? Well, I think we have to deserve. How can you say that they don't deserve a shot to win a championship? Well, I think you have to decide what you want for your identity. If you want what golf has, then the regular season champion is a huge advantage. If you want what Major League Baseball or football has, then you don't.

Because I'm a Patriots fan. We went 19 and 1. I saw what 19 and 1 felt like. lost. But the Giants still had a winning record. Yeah, but Joe LaGano still won four races. And I love that you bring up other sports. I would agree with you if he didn't win.

But he won four. I hear you. I think what's got, I'm just, I'm speaking for all the bots out there. Oh, man, I hear you. That's a good line. Okay. I see, I hear what you're saying. I think they have issues with how he, you know.

That's right. We've got some fuel mileage, two fuel mologies and a, Super Speedway. I just think that that's what they're saying. And then I know because it's on my feed, right? Is it because I opened up one of the complaints and read the comments, and then my feed just got feed me more of it, maybe. But I just, I think we've got to be careful ignoring the people saying that they have

issues with this and they have year after year. I mean, so the hypothetical is. It's hard for me to say, why it was. Kevin Harvick after 10 wins, not, didn't have a chance to race for a championship of being. That doesn't seem right.

Yeah. You're talking to the guy that led, so you're pulling a band-aid off that he doesn't even know he is. So in 2007, Gordon and I had like a 400-point lead when the playoffs started. That we lost. Gone. Evaporated.

Then we race, and we win race four and five. And then this guy you may have heard of him, Jimmy Johnson, he won race six, seven, eight, and nine. So I empathize with this conversation, right? I hear what you're saying.

I don't know the answer because as long as you have playoff. I don't think, so here's my opinion. I think it's not a regular season issue. I question if, say it was a three race championship. There you go. Now we're talking. Would you, because I have no problem with the Ligano championship, and I'm not saying you do,

but you think the fans would have less to stand on if he survived, if he was the best in a three race finish. I think they would. Like, say, and I actually like the last three races. I think they would be more okay with it. Like, I think you can run Martinsville, Phoenix, Miami, and have a great combination of racetracks. But that's the key.

Awesome. I mean. So here's mine. I'm going to give you the Steve LaTart playoffs. You ready? Let's see it. You win a race, you're in the playoffs. There are no, I don't care about points.

I'm not even going to count them. I'll count them for the guys that don't make the playoffs. You win and you're in. We may have six. We may have 16. I'm not even going to set a number. The players are only winners. If you don't win, I don't care how many points you score, you go home.

Like, thank you. Winning is what matters. That's what people cheer on. Victory Lane should be the best. So for 26 weeks, you have to win a race. Then we run, I could argue the format, either all of those guys for 10 weeks or all of those guys in some sort of elimination

with the last round being three races. There's still seating off race wins and stage wins because once Denny wins the first race of the year, I want them thinking, I need to keep winning. So I would still seed everybody in a bracket, not bracket elimination, but there's still a first to however many winners we have. And so do we still get bonus points for winning stages?

Yeah, I think the bonus point is like the seat. So let's just, for simple math, say we have 12 winners. Correct. When we reset, when we leave and enter the playoffs, we say, hey, Kyle Larson had four race wins, they're worth X, and five stage wins, they're worth X.

So that puts him seed one with 2,050 points. So everyone's staying in keeping open home. You're saying nothing really changes only, it's only race winners. It could be 12. It could be 13. Whatever it is. But the bonus points for winning. The race is the same.

Stage is the same. You got to win. Yes. You got to win. Because first of all, the Joey Lugano argument, I don't want to get a points as as way into the playoffs and then go deep. You didn't win. You didn't win.

You have to win. The sport is about winning. Right. When you go in the Hall of Fame, they go, man, you had this many top fives. I think nobody cares. Moving along. And then we cede you by race wins and stage wins. I don't know exactly how the math works,

but that way your regular season matters. Now I could argue you line those guys up for 10 weeks. I could argue that. That's the old chase. That's the old chase. I think we've already done that. Or we could line that up with some sort of elimination, you know, 333 or 433.

You know, and you just... Why not just run them for seven weeks? Yeah, I'd be fine. Last three, the top four in points, go race for a championship. That's what I do think, too. I think I don't know if you need elimination or if people just mathematically would be eliminated, like do it to themselves. So I could go either way.

I do love the elimination races. You know, I'm fortunate enough on NBC. I think we have the best schedule because I get all the elimination races. So I hate to lose that part of this format because that part is great. And look, the guys at the top of the grid aren't going to be eliminated. But so, so that's what I don't have figured out. In seven weeks they could, which is why maybe I'm, maybe I argue to you then double, double what the race wins mean. So instead of five bonus points for winning a race, thing about that, that's only five spots in a stage.

Maybe that should be 10. Maybe a stage win should be two. So, so really the people that get the bonus points like the Seabells and the Larson's and and Reddick through, you know, those, three had the most, I think Byron, I don't know if he had as many, but those guys deserve to have a head start, as you say. Totally. They deserve to have the head start maybe in that seven races. I'm buying into your playoffs here. But not every round. No, no, no, no. Because right now, they're regular season. So I make the argument the regular season is too valuable because you get your head start three times. Correct. So what I'm saying is if you doubled it, so instead of

Larson having 53 bonus points to start. Now he's got seven races, but he's got 100. He's 100 over this guy. So that means he really has to get the bed over the next seven weeks to not make it to the final four. But he could. He could wreck out of a couple and find himself in a tough spot. And it still allows the bottom seeds to get hot for that seven races to get themselves in that final four to run for that three race championship. I then would take the three race championship.

maybe not every year because I'm not sure a city can lean in in just one year like they do the Super Bowl I'm not going to put us to the NFL level but I would like to see

the last one of the three rotate same three tracks but I think the order matters so I'd like to do Phoenix for say two or three years I'd have to ask NASCAR have to say hey we need three years to kind of like

ticket sale you know stuff that's not important to us they could decide TV could decide and then maybe the next year but I think though you know Martinsville Miami and Phoenix to my mind

or three tracks that cover the gamut of what you need. You got Vegas in there, too. It's a good time of the year for Vegas. Yeah, so I think you could even go Charlotte at the Oval. I think Charlotte Oval might be one of the best races we run. No question. So we could talk about the tracks, but that's what I think. I think the regular season should you be about winners.

I would even argue that I'm going to make this up. So you get like three points for a race win and one point for a stage win, but none of that carries over. And if you're the one seed, you already know how many points you're going to get. like the one seed is already determined to have a hundred point. If I win one more stage than you, that makes me the one seed, then I have my total point.

And everybody gets seated by, say, 10 points of position or, you know, to your point, giving advantage to everybody, and then run seven weeks, take your four and then run three weeks. So I'm going to go back. I think 10 is too much. I do like elimination. Okay.

So to me, then what? I'm just saying 10 straight. So maybe you go a certain amount of weeks, eliminate the bottom four. Yeah. You know, just keep going that way. But you don't reset it. You just eliminate four and keep going.

That's correct. You keep going. No reset. That's right. Just keep going. Because people on social media will say is that, yeah, but he stepped up and he won in the biggest moment. I agree, but they reset the score. He was in the bottom.

He, this could be Tyleretic. This could be anywhere, right? Just because you hit a half court Hail Mary, does that, you know, you got dominated for 30. weeks like does them resetting the score with two minutes to go and just because you hit a Hail Mary three-pointer or a Hail Mary touchdown pass does that does that to me it delegitimizes the fact that you you earned your way into the championship I to me it just does so you know in NASCAR you got to understand they keep resetting the score on us and that's what you said is don't reset it just let it keep rolling right you're going to get a bigger sample size and every time you get a

better bigger sample size you're always going to come out with a better result that's why before we take any medicine it has to go through rigorous testing right and so i i i'm with that i definitely think double all the points start up you know you know you can argue the 16 or when in your end you say you want to see winners so all the winners all the winners you know why because that way all of our partners. Remember next year we're going to have Fox, Amazon, we have all these different partners that we're going to try to be consistent with our messaging.

Right now, it's winning you're in, unless you got in, here's the point standing. We all going to show the points standing the same way. You know, how easy it would be like, who's in the playoffs? These five, because they have won. And when somebody wins at race 13, you just move their name to the list, right?

Like it becomes more consistent for the fan. What if you got rid of the winning advance in the playoffs? Well, that's what it does. That's what this does. it removes the win and you're in. You still have to, over that seven race, you could win the very first race of the playoffs. That just helps your cause of making it into the final four.

It's like the mix, old school and new school. You still got to perform. You're not going to consistently. Win a fuel mileage race or a super speedway race and all of a sudden your whole season is made, right? I think there's just too many variables in NASCAR that just open up the sample size slightly. I mean, at the moment, these playoffs in my mind are just four races. It's a round of eight and as a champion. Like, you can have an okay season. You, for example, right? With the penalty,

you effectively won one race and had a decent season and made it to the round of eight. And then if you're good in the round of eight, you win a race and you're good at Phoenix, then you have a shot to win the championship. It all comes down to whether or not the race, the champion is decided by one race or a group of races. Right? Because if you're, if you're Penske and you know you're, you're, shoulders, head and shoulders above everyone else at Phoenix. You just have to figure out, okay, how do we put a car in that race? But I will say this, though. I like these things being discussed separately.

Do you get mixed up too much? We haven't had a champion that I don't think is a deserving champion. There's not been one guy that stood on that stage that I didn't think deserve to win a race this year or to win the championship. But I think the format does allow it. Right? Like in, it allows it a little bit too much. So the conversation should be, just like how do you make racing better at Phoenix? It can always get better.

The format went from this to that. Like, we can make a change not because it's broken, just because we think it can be better. I think that's where people get so just split on these arguments, right? It's like we aren't, or at least I'm not saying what we have is wrong. I'm just thinking, I think now that we've done it and we've learned, it's like testing. Danny go drive this. I don't think that setup was wrong. He tells me what it does.

Well, then I make a change. I mean, there's an action and a reaction. We raced in this format now. I don't think this is a reaction because Joey Lugano won the championship. I think it's because, hey, what have we seen? Have we liked what we've seen? I think it takes the heat off everything. It takes the heat off officiating.

It takes the heat off. It just takes the temperature down on everything that's happening on the racetrack. Because right now, in one race or an elimination three race, right? I think the bigger sample set, you get, I'm a big numbers guy. And I think on a sample set, the averages take care of themselves, right? The outliers, both good and bad. That's why I like get rid of the winning you're in in the round of seven. In case you have a guy that gets four.

I mean, I don't have a problem with Joey Lagano's fuel win. But if the front five cars wrecked and the guy who was running eighth all day long wins a race because of something like that, that would bother me a little bit more. But that can happen in NASCAR, which is why the sample size should be bigger. You and I think the same thing, right? I mean, it's just a sample size is a game of chance. Well, and it's not even just... For me to celebrate your human performance, I have to understand all the mechanicals that go into that.

And you are racing against guys back to the manipulation that we're not going to dig into. You have to race against everyone. So for that reason, it's even more important to have the sample size bigger. Because whether they mean to or not, forget manipulation for a minute. Say you're lapping a car and he cuts a tire and wrecks you.

I mean, should that be... We want to build stars. I think we would have, I think the stars would grow bigger and bigger and bigger when there's less chance that it doesn't go the wrong way for them. Right. I think when they came up with this, right? I remember being in, and I think Joey Lugano mentioned that I was in the room. This is your playoffs.

He said it was my idea. I don't know about that. I was part of the discussions on how we were going to do the stages, how we were going to reward points for stages. And I remember being part of the format stuff, but I don't think what was planned for by NASCAR in this is that three bottom guys win in the round of eight. I don't think that they budget that in their thoughts of like,

hey, we could end up eliminating a guy that won 20 races because these bottom three, because they think, well, what's the chances? That these bottom three that finish 25th, 35th, and then wins. in the round of eight, like, oh, they just took a spot from our most dominant teams throughout the regular year.

I just don't think that that probably was a thought because I know that when NASCAR started tweaking their playoffs, they always looked at how would the champion have changed under this format versus when we did it previously with the chase, with the 10 races. And 85% of the times, in the simulation models,

and when they ran it, the champion was the same. But it just created this more excitement that you're talking about on the weekly basis or these three, especially elimination races. And you can't deny that those have been exciting.

My only question is, does it, though, put a bug in your, just a little bit of legitimacy of like, you know, yeah, it's exciting because you made it exciting. You know, you reset the score, you lined us up on a, green white checker double wide like of course it's going to be exciting because you you form

the rules to be that way so people just don't get excited on those moments anymore now the counter to the argument is like the martinsville tv ratings i happen to see them on social media right they were up i don't know five eight 10 percent whatever it was i'm not smart enough to know why i'm not going to pretend i know why but that's the true counter right the true counter to this is we are having this whole conversation from a competitor's point of view and as a sports fan point of view. But while I'm a NASCAR fan, I am a NASCAR fan who's in the sport. Like, what are the 3 million that watch on TV want? I think they would like what we're talking about. How many are avid and how many you think are core then? That's, I think there, listen, I think

one great thing about NASCAR is we have a few million people that watch all the time, every time, wherever it goes. Because the ones that I see are core. These are, this is just, not like it used to be, right? And I think we've got to definitely run that fine line because the casual fans that turn on, yes, they'll see an exciting race. But they're just skimming by. How many casual fans does NASCAR have, though?

I would say the percentage is... If you're watching NASCAR, you're a hard-co- I personally believe that if 3 million tune in, I think 2.2 or core. So, yeah, I think we have a hardcore group that chases us everywhere we go. So I will say, let's talk about it the other way. We keep talking about legitimate.

Let's just look at it the other way for the fan. What if on the next to last restart, the five hits the nine and takes out the 12, 22, and 45? Just for conversation. So now you're, we have been fortunate that the championship race, the competitor, and I'm going to give the credit to the garage, the garage has made those races great. They have stepped up and put a show on. But gosh, darn it. What happens if it goes the other way?

It could happen, right? Like, we could have that race where nobody thought we were going to be blowing tires at Bristol in the spring. What happens when we start running a softer tire at Phoenix and we go out there and holy, look at it. That gives me a headache to think. Yeah. You're right. Like to my point about taking the pressure off, right? If it was over three weeks, everything just becomes a little bit.

I just think that all the rest of them, if you change nothing, all the rest of them have round of eight. why don't we have a round of four? I just, I don't understand why is it one race, right? I just believe you would get more bite of the apple if you had a championship round. I think, well, so hold on, as an owner, let's talk about the business side. Owner now, not driver. Is the championship race for a valuable for your partners? Would just a longer final round, right, that say the championship is going to be decided.

You have Tyler, you have great partners on that car. do you think the business side of 2311 would say, you know, that would help us because that would give us four bites at the championship round Apple with our partners? Yeah, I think it would be. You know, because those are other things that have to be considered. Absolutely. Because you know that the focus is going to be on you for three straight races. As a TV guy, I agree. I'm going to, no offense to Denny Hamlin.

Yeah. I didn't really know how well he ran at Phoenix because I'm so focused on those other four and that's unfortunate, but that's part of it. Yeah, right. So yes, I think that, yeah, knowing that you're going to have cameras on you for three straight weeks, absolutely would be important. Well, then NASCAR should also get behind that right. Because for that same theory, then you should be able to take the track. You should be able to take what you just did at Phoenix and replicate it then at Miami or Las Vegas for three weekends in a row. It's, look, there's just a lot of partners because, you know, TV, this isn't just a NASCAR thing.

I mean, look at sports and how they're consumed. You know, I work for the network, right? I know what television wants, right? They want something they can promote, that it's a must-see. If you make it multiple rounds, you're asking the fan now to kind of give your attention for multiple races versus just one race. I mean, there are counters to the conversation. That has to happen.

That's why I don't have to make these decisions. It's great being in my seat. And I think, too, when you go from one race to three, I think you challenge the driver more, right? I mean, let's just pretend Phoenix is Penske's playground, which it appears it is right now. at least if you, all right, well, then go prove it to me at Vegas too. Go prove it to me at Martinsville too, which you would argue that's their playgrounds. But it's still, you know, you make the champion prove it at all types. Lugano didn't do anything after Vegas.

He packed it in for two weeks. You wouldn't be able to do that. Correct. Yeah, as they did because, yeah, so I look at like golf. I think we need to learn a lot from golf. Yeah. And as a fan, as a fan, I don't like limited fields. and I don't like less than 72 holes.

I just don't. I'm sorry. I don't like limited fields. I want to see them all there and I don't like shorter events. But in the Tour Championship, don't they narrow it down? I mean, but like as a fan turning in, right? Like I like to see, if a round of golf was nine holes, my handicap would be a lot lower. I can mentally put it together for nine holes.

I like golf too because it definitely rewards regular season. Like these guys play, I don't know how many tournaments. But I think the head starts too big at the Tour Championship. like I think for one event that's too big that that's kind of what we have like but they put the best golfer P1 I don't think it really matters no it doesn't but but you know yeah Shephler I mean sheffler's within five strokes on day three it's like well watch out folks here he comes yeah no yeah you're right but it's I do think that maybe you give these guys a bigger head start in you know from their regular season of accomplishments to give them

more of a buffer to get through. I do like a reset. If it's continuous rounds or this seven races were done. So I will say if we go seven and three, I do like it's heads up at three. No more heads up when to get to three. No, no. The four that make it? We're on the same page there.

When the four that make it, we start at zero. Okay, we're on the same page there. That's a problem I have a tour championship. It's like I think they should be reset heading into the FedEx Cup, like the last three, whatever it is. And then you just keep playing. Because obviously, if you made it into the final four, it ain't because you looked up in want to race. You had to, A, get in the playoffs by winning.

And then you had a great seven weeks. And then you got to be sustained that greatness through the seven weeks to get to that point. And I think the pressure off of what tracks go in those seven weeks, like you want to run Talladegh, you want to run a couple road. It's seven weeks. Like, I don't want to hear about there's a track in there you don't like. Right. I mean, it's one seventh of the sample size. And stop. Yeah. And the resetting, you don't need to reset it. Even if they throw an elimination in there after race three or whatever it might be, you don't need to reset. Just let these guys run. When they get hot, let them stay hot.

This all sounds great, but are you? It always does. It does. And no matter you'll be able to shoot holes through it. There's no question. We're doing this off the cuff in an hour podcast. So I'm just wondering, do you keep changing this? Does it delegitimize the sport? Boy, that word got the hardest word to say we've said. I'm not repeating it. Yeah. Let me ask you this. National Championship in football. Has it been?

changed. Like, do we value it differently? Because it's changed over the years. There's been AP pull, then there's BCS, then there's 14, now there's 12 team. We don't look at it differently because it's changed. Because generally we get usually one of the top teams are in playing for. I know, but you also don't have the ability of a one-win temple team to get into the playoffs. No, but I think he's answering his question, which is, is change alone a problem?

So my answer to that is no. You will always have people that don't like change. You know, that's okay. But those same people thought a street course was crazy, and I went there, and it's an event, man. It's, it's packed. It's like I'm going to applaud Steve and Ben and the people at NASCAR that, and I'm going to put Marcus on this list because he's another innovator. Just like we can't always just pick it the flop. You can't just pick up the flops and say, well, that was a bad idea.

You can't Monday morning, I would have won a lot of races, right? You know, it is really risky for change, but I don't think we are such a juggernaut that you're like, man, we're afraid to change anything. You know, how do restaurants go out of business? They don't change. One week, you can't get a reservation. And six months later, you're like, man, I've had that same meal this many time. Like the human interest, I would argue that if you polled the amount of people on how it

really works, I have no idea how the FedEx Cup points from golf work. None. When I know when the guy makes a put, they go, oh, he trends up in the top 75. I'm like, okay. So if they need to change the algorithm or the math to do what they think is better for the sport, as a fan, I'm like, you know, I'm going to complain about it because that's my job as a sports fan. You know, complain about stuff. But I'm not concerned about change. I really am not.

Not in that situation. I think a perfect NASCAR is this. You run the Daytona 500, the Coca-Cola 600, Southern 500. There's probably a few more that I'm missing. Every year, there's one or two marquee things on the schedule that are new that we can celebrate. It was Chicago. next year we're going down to Mexico City. Like those need to be celebrated.

And I'm good with it. And if you want to change the playoffs, I'm okay with it. Yep. I mean, that's a good argument. I got no. Well, I guess here's my counter. I guess here's my counter. I believe that Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt, and Jimmy Johnson

with seven championships each are the Mount Rushmore, put them up there. They've all done it. I don't care the formats. I don't care that Richard did it. Like, in their world, they were the best in their time. to win seven of them, right? Like, you can't unpeel the onion and say, like, Joey Legano didn't need to run well in the next two races, but you can't go back and say, see, he wouldn't have been the championship.

I'm like, oh, so you don't think Paul Wolf would have done something different if he had to go run great at Martinsville? Yeah, the only argument, though, I have to that is that people say, well, they played the format. And I says, listen, if they could have won the first 26 races, they would have. I don't mean the regular season. I mean, more specifically in the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, right? Because to Travis this point, I'm not a diehard college football fan, you know, at all. I could care less if they keep changing the playoffs in college football. So if 2.2 of those 3 million fans watching a race are diehards that want to see a change in the playoff structure, then go for it, right? I don't think you're going to lose the casual fans because I don't think they are watching because, oh my gosh, this playoff format is so good in NASCAR. I'm tuning in every week. But what did they just do in college football? Didn't they increase the sample size?

Now, if you're going to be the champion, you've got to run a tougher gauntlet than he did before. But no one's going to, but what I'm saying, though, is no one's going to say, well, this isn't a legitimate winner this year or in the AP poll. So your argument is that change is fine. Yeah, I'm all for change. Yep.

Yeah. I'm the same way. Same. Well, we had Martin Truex. Hold on. Should we get to the best part about the race, though? What part? The pace car. spinning out.

Oh, yeah. That's embarrassing. They put that guy on TV. I don't know who it is. We're not going to mention any names, but that's embarrassing. That's tough. I think he just forgot it was one. I think he zoned out and was thinking it's just another pace lap.

And then he realized real quickly. Oh, we're on one to go. We've all made bad split-second decisions. My main just need to flip the lights back on. Absolutely. Run another one. Absolutely. I feel awful for him, but,

man, that can't happen. Like, I'm, like, you know, I said it on air. I'm like, this is like a ref spilling his cup of water underplaying the NBA. Oh, man, my bad, are you okay? I just, I felt, can we at least say, at least they cleaned it up relatively quick? Yeah. They were prepared for that.

They did a good job. That was bad. Went to the backup pace car, man. He hit hard. I tell you what, that camera is tough, though. You see, he hit those barrels and it barely, you know, it creased the bumper slightly. was saying Camry has have good crash test ratings? It appears so.

Burton and I, we take the pace car out every weekend. For no other reason, we just feel it's an obligation. Just remind ourselves with the facility to make a few laps. We were proud of ourselves. We didn't hit anything. We were like, somebody wrecked the pace car and it wasn't us. I loved how the driver got out of the backup car and then he got in the backup car. I thought that would be like, no, you're done. You go out there and drive the face car.

Best thing to happen to that guy all weekend is that Joe Lugano won the championship because no one's talking about. We had his information, and we chose that that was too far. Yeah. Like, look, like, if you're a star, if you're a sports guy, but he... Some people just need to remain behind the curtain. We left him behind the curtain. We knew who it was.

We showed him from a distance, but we weren't going to call him out by name. Well, good news is he's going to be more on it, I think, going forward on when to pull in. Back where I was starting there with Truex Final Race, you know just what can I say about Truex just a just a constant professional as a teammate certainly somebody that I admire off the racetrack as well his how independent he is he's independent off the racetrack and it's just a great professional on the racetrack and so we'll definitely miss Martin and everything he brings to Joe Gibbs racing and wish him the best yeah how would I'm curious how would you would you would

react if you were Martin and you had a standing ovation of the entire room around you in the driver's meeting and for Martin that looked very I was getting emotional for him I maybe it's just my old age but like they play the video and I start I hold it back I'm all right I'm okay it's not even about me but I'm just you know you know how big that moment is for others I did the same thing during the Harvick video like I started holding it back a little bit trying to hold back because it's like you know it's a big moment for them and their family. But Martin's casual. He's just while everyone's standing up, he's just sitting in his seat. And he starts clapping with everybody, you know, with his water bottle. And so I don't know. That's, it's, that is Martin,

right? And he's always been that way. Do you find yourself these past two years you've seen Harvick and now Martin is part, do you catch yourself thinking about your retirement? only on mondays when i feel like i have a bad race my body hurts and it's like oh man but every sunday i i get in that car and i'm like i got a chance to win and that's just something that's going to be hard for me to to give up and and surely one day there'll be a light switch that that flips on that you know, I'm no longer as quick as I was and things like that, but I still feel, you know, like I can win it. And I feel like I can win every week. And that's what drives me. And those that know me or play golf with me or play basketball with me or whatever knows that I'm just,

I love the competition. And it's how I get my fill. And y'all asked me on the plane, like, would ownership fill that? If I stopped racing, would ownership fill my competitive bucket? And I say partially. Like, it's still different when you go out and you do it yourself. Now, I would take a lot of pride in, you know, being the owner of 2311, knowing that, all right, I had my hands in all parts of building this team from scratch. From the competition, challenging the crew chiefs and the engineers on their thinking, the drivers, on their techniques. Like, I take a ton of pride in that. But it's still different than, you know, doing it yourself.

And so I think I would, I probably would struggle with that part of it. And I've always heard people that have said, you know, when those that choose to retire, they know, I'm not in the no. Well, so I did it, right? So I went from the pit box to the TV booth. I was 35. So I had tons of, you know, Dale and I just won four races. Like, we had all kinds of stuff. And I will say, you know, in hindsight, I'm thankful I've did it because I do have two kids in college and I got to see him for 10 years.

years, right? My schedule is obviously a lot different than a driver, although their schedules are pretty crazy, really, in today's NASCAR. But you're correct on it's partial because there are days, look, when we climb out into Michigan and I'm like, I don't feel like, like I don't miss this one, but man, when we see Martinsville or Darlington or I love to poke and, like, there are certain tracks where on Sundays I can be cranky because I want to compete. But I also know you just don't show up on Sunday, right? Sunday through Sunday. I will say this, though, no one in the world wants Danny Hamlin to keep driving more than like wheels and those guys at 2311 because he's going to be all in their

shit. Like that first year he's not driving. They're going to be like, dude, don't you have something to do? Like go, let us be for a little bit. He's going to be all in their business. The control freak of me, you're absolutely right. I will be all up there. You'll get there. You're like access car. I'll be all up in their shit. And they're like, what are you working on? Yeah, right. Why aren't you thinking about this? Have you thought about that? Oh, yeah. You'll be all in their business. This was the first weekend you kind of experienced that, right? Because you've competed for championships before, but this was the first actual weekend where you were not competing for a championship as a driver, but we're doing it

as an owner. Yeah. You were standing around Tyler's car pre-race before he got there. You know, you were going through that experience. Yeah, I just wanted to give him one last message, and I'll keep that private what I said to him, but I just, I wanted to have one last word with him before because I'd been in that scenario. And so, um, and failed at it. So I just wanted to give him advice from, you know, the playbook that I've learned from over the years. And so, um, certainly, yeah, it's, you know, those moments are special. Um, they're going to continue to be special. And yeah, I just, uh, I want to continue to win races. I mean, that's the biggest thing for me is to try to run my win total up as high as I possibly can. What was the moment like after

the race where he obviously didn't, wasn't able to win. Did you talk to him? Or what was that like? I didn't at the time. Um, I, I just said, because he was quite a few cars up. So I just gave my congratsy on Martin and whatnot. And again, I have to do my media obligations. He's got to do his. So you've got to stay at your car for 15 minutes after a race. So you can't really leave there.

But I've since talked to him. And so I'm sure it's crushing for him. But man, he's just in his second year with this team. This team, this is their third year that the 45 team, has been on the racetrack, fourth year for 2311, he's going to have many more opportunities. And it's like, you know, yeah, this is the experience you need for when your time comes back around. So it's funny because I don't have a dog in the fight,

but that's why I was so thankful for the championship the way it ended. Just from simply, I appreciate all the drivers. They're spectacular to me. I text them. They text me back so I can do my job. Joey is the most senior. He's not old, but he's the elder of those four. So he got his third.

You never know when you're going to have another chance, right? He's now at three. That is like there's only 10 drivers out of 3,000. 3,000 have taken a green flag. 10 guys have won more than two. Right. So that's, we're talking unbelievable numbers. Upper echelon.

Yeah, right. And then Blaney was close. I empathized to be that close. He's going to win another. But the two that lost, the two, they're going to be back a bunch of times. So they're going to have their moments. Very good point. When talking to these guys, Steve, before the race, did you get a sense that, you know,

experience in this was playing a role in how they were going to perform? No, I will tell you this. I was, we talked to both Xfinity and Cup, and it is so evidently clear the difference. The Saturday drivers were great and cordial, but you could see maybe some nerves and not what to expect. These four delivered everything I looked for. And they all answered the question I liked the best. I said, which one of the other three do you prefer to race around? And all four instantly said none of them.

And I was, really? And you could see in their, this was earlier in the week, but you could see in their mind they were, they had shifted forward. Like they were in a spot that few people in life can get to. And they were there. They didn't care that they were teammates or friends or this. They realized what was on the line. They were all so dialed in that from the interviews, I couldn't tell you. I had to start looking who I thought was going to be the fastest this.

I ended up pre-race picking Lugano. I think it was literally a coin flip across the board. I took them for what I call the intangibles and maybe a little bit of my emotion that I wanted to see a guy win three. But no, they were all so amazing when we sat down with them. Yep. Yeah, it was a great weekend overall. You know, I thought we had three deserving champions and a successful overall championship weekend. So, clip that, Travis.

Then he just said we had three deserving champions on that day. on that day I said I didn't think that I thought I would have been fine with the 22 or 12 winning I thought they had the fastest cars speed and on that day given the format they they deserve to win it based off of this format podcast title three deserving champs I wouldn't go that for so we have some exciting news at Dirty Mo Media we do a new show is starting Herm and Schrader podcast. So you got Kenny Wallace here, Ken Schrader. Ken Schrader might be the king of the one-liners. Man, the guy is just, he is always on top of it with just a punchline that will make your stomach hurt.

He's just so funny, and Schrader's seen it all. Kenny Wallace, obviously, you see his social media presence. Man, I couldn't figure out, though, this week after that, after Phoenix, whether NASCAR, hired him or Dirty Moe because he was very pro sticking up for anything NASCAR this weekend.

So I think he's just priming himself to be part of the Dirty Mo family where he might get called in the trailer once or twice. Give himself a few that-a-boys before it goes bad. It's going to be like those two have forgot more stories than you and I will ever know. So it's going to be fascinating.

A totally different perspective. And I love Kenny because he'll say, listen, and we say it here on this show quite a bit. This is not a fact based show. This is a opinion-based show. You know, but Kenny will say, listen, I'm just talking to shit, man. I don't know. It might be true. Might not be true, but I'm just talking to

I don't know how old Kenny Wallace is, but the energy that he has, I would kill to have half of that at his age. Oh, no question about it. Yeah, I'm 43 years old. And I, again, after watching Ahmad Rashad this past week hit the golf ball. Kenny Wallace at his age, running dirt cars and, you know, working, like, there's no way. I just don't think I'm going to make it that far.

So, tune into that. It starts tomorrow, airs tomorrow, November 13th. Awesome. Well, tune into that. You'll find it on all the dirty moan media platforms. I'm looking at Kenny Schrader right now. I'm amazed that I'm here. Following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.

Shreder could go over to the Vatican, and the Pope would go, Hey, Shreder! Now he screamed at TV one time yesterday, when Larson shot the gap. Oh, my gosh. No, no, no, no! You and I are of age, and we found this dirt, basically. Okay, you keep saying of age. You do this all the time.

This is what he does to me all the time. I just correct you when you're wrong. You correct me when I'm wrong. You're shooting at three wide, Russ. He's got his white gold. love it. No, Shrader. No. I should have paid a lot more attention. Hey, this is Ken Schrader.

And Kenny Wallace, inviting you to listen to our podcast, Herman Schrader, every week on Dirtymo Media and Sirius X-F. I got a review here from J.BG Mama. As I said last time, yours is a compelling journey and true fans have and will continue to enjoy the trip all in. Jared, keep asking the tough questions. Keep up the good work. Boys. Well, I appreciate that review. It's been a great year. Did we officially do 40 episodes? Probably. I don't know. If you're asking me to keep track about it. It felt like a lot. It feels like a lot on Mondays where Sunday didn't go great. But there's many, many times that I woke up and was like, let's get down there. It was an exciting weekend all around. There got plenty of talk about. NASCAR definitely gave us plenty of content throughout the playoffs with Rule Jail. changes and stuff. So I appreciate everyone who's been tuning in. We'll have a great off-season. Maybe we'll check in with you and catch up on some off-season news here soon. But until then,

we'll see you later. Before we finish, I need more details on you, when you were a teenager, you got hit by a car and then they sued you? How does one get hit by a car and then also get sued? Did you jump on the hood? Apparently, you can sue anyone he want. you didn't jump on the hood or anything or no would you break like a traffic law on a bike or like no i was exiting my driveway um when i was and i say 11 i think i was it was between nine and 11 somewhere in that range um but yeah i was just riding my bike exited the uh my driveway pulled onto the street road for maybe five seconds bam got hit and then uh she you know once she hit me then she went into the far ditch on the other side and then said she had mental distress from that point on.

How much damage did you have to like physical? So they sued for like $50,000, I think. But they didn't win. I feel like I need a lawsuit for something. I said her brother owned a law firm in Virginia. I'm married to a lawyer. I mean, I could start just distress. Put some hot coffee on yourself. Were you in pain? Not really, no, because I just kind of, you know, I got clipped pretty good,

and it sent me into the wobbles, then I fell. So, yeah, I mean, I got skinned up, but I mean, I was fine. I mean, the 10-year-old version's fine. Now, at our age, if it would happen, we would be. It would still be lazy. I'd be like the guy on office space. Remember the guy?

Oh, yeah, yep. He was in the full body cast. That'd be me. I'm falling over, and I can't get up. love you all right well appreciate y'all turning in all year appreciate the chat steve thank you for coming great time appreciate it yeah let's go play some go