Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - From First to Last... Then Last to First

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Fresh off his Nashville victory, Denny Hamlin is back on Actions Detrimental to break down one of the wildest weekends of the season. The biggest story? A bet between The Denny Bros and the No. 45 team that escalated far beyond its original low-stakes beginnings. What started as friendly trash talk turned into a full-blown competition, with the stakes getting higher throughout the weekend and bragging rights hanging in the balance. Denny also walks through his race-winning performance, from fighting through the field with a car that wasn't built for dirty air to executing the late-race restarts that put him in position to battle for the win. He explains what he was thinking during the closing laps, why he felt confident on the bottom groove, and how everything came together at the right time to deliver one of the most unlikely and rewarding victories of his career. The conversation also covers the decision to stay out on old tires, Nashville's unique racing characteristics, tire strategy, brake issues throughout the field, standout performances from across the garage, Ross Chastain's playoff outlook, Corey Heim's promotion to a full-time Cup ride with 23XI Racing, and what lies ahead as the series heads to Michigan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That's like a hot take. Yeah, look and rethink what you want to say because... I'm saying I think that he did not care if that car spun out. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. Opinions from tonight's podcast, strictly biased. You're going to hear from my point of view. I'm a fighter.

No, you are not. The spoils a victory for Jared Allen. He's got better luck the drink and drink to win. I know, you do. Two trophies missing from your collection, a championship and the most popular driver. Someone told me that their drinking game

is when I say for sure. Yeah, and I've already said it. Hey guys, welcome to action's detrimental. Late here on a... Is it going to be tonight? Yeah. Ooh, working late. Yeah, thanks.

Then again, you've been up late for the last four nights. just like the rest of us. Not Friday night. That's true. That's true. I mean, you turned in early. Is that Friday night?

Yeah, Irish could buy that place. Yeah. Yeah, we're all, our gas tank is empty. Absolutely. Didn't get into 5.30 this morning. There was apparently, team playing didn't get until 6.30, almost seven. So tough for me to complain when the team guys had to get off the plainly go to work.

Oof. Brutal. But we have some... You wouldn't have it any other way, though. No, no, no. Well, we have some company here. A lot.

We have some hardware. A lot of hardware. We got hardware that's not even on the table. Oh, the Rockinshire. Well, and your pole victory. Oh, that was so well-earned. Yeah, we got some... What does that say?

Victory syrup? Victory juice. We don't know what this is, right? It looks not thick enough to be syrup. But it's supposed to be syrup. Well, I see it says syrup. Jared, you're going to give it a guy? I'm going to try it.

You can't have victory syrup and not know what it is. Those of you that are just listening and not watching, this is, I mean, this is 200 ounces. Oh, it's not maple syrup, unfortunately. What's this smell like? Wait, do we know if it's going to kill them? That's a good question, actually. That's a really good question. I'm glad you just brought that up.

There would be a sign. It says for nutritional value, call 1-800-5-25-something-something. I know what it is. What is it? And I don't like ice tea. Oh, is it tea? Oh my God, my mom will love it. She's a tea drinker.

That's a sour face he just made. It's not sweetened, I guess. I don't drink iced tea, so I don't really know what... I'll get my mom... I think it's just unsweetened. I'll get her to find out. All right. Where do we start this weekend?

I mean, do we just get through the trucks in O'Reilly? No, I think we get a fast start to the show. Where does it start? I mean, maybe with your fast start. We had, it was a fun weekend. It was a straight boys weekend. My mom didn't even go. Jordan kids, they stayed back.

They had stuff they had going on this weekend. Didn't get to go. So, we had the Denny Burr. rose round to Nashville. If you saw on my social media, you saw that we let Travis out in the wild again. And,

you know, you just never know it can happen. Alex, Presley, Cush. Yeah, it was it was quite the weekend. Charlie joined us when he wasn't working. We didn't want to interrupt

him actually working. Which is shocking. Yeah. Um, great weekend. Uh, yeah, got the poll. What do we say on Saturday? Here's the perfect scenario. It rains to a certain time.

They call qualifying, but we still get a few laps. There were steps to this. There were steps. It's like, okay, it needs the rain for like an hour. Step one. Check. Accomplished. Step two, they need to, uh, it needs to cut into our two hour practice slash

qualifying window. Right, right. Check. They need to then cancel qualifying. Check. But we also need at least 15 minutes of practice. Just a few laps of practice to kind of validate what we think the track's going to be and the car is going to be. And so we had all the above. It was a triple check weekend. So start off great. Starting on the poll, you wouldn't know it by the box score. Apparently, they didn't score me in the lead when I was in the lead the first three laps. I don't know how that's possible.

So where was I positioned? Last. Aren't you immediately black flagged? Yeah. That's okay. Here's my question then. It's just, I find this very interesting weird. We'll go back to the process of taking off and turn four.

No, good, because I've got question. But if you speed on pit road under green and they black flagged you to do a pass-through. You're in that position until you actually do your pass-through. I don't understand. Like, it can't just remove you from the grid, but apparently they wiped out lap one, two, and three of the race. It doesn't mean anything. It just, it was very interesting. I didn't realize until I saw and sushi, they were like, yeah, they didn't give the 11 credit for leading because he had the initial start penalty. Wait, so hold up.

Yeah, but I'm on the racetrack ahead. Like, I understand I won't be there long, but that was weird. If you, if you take the box score and add up laps lead, the laps lead column for all the drivers, does it equal total lapse in the race? Or three, sure. Yeah, they ruled Reddick, the leader for Lopoan. Right. Oh, okay. So he, he, yeah.

Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, actually. I know. I thought it was somebody. else. So those that were watching, you saw that there was a bet that came from this podcast, what was a week or two ago? Two weeks ago?

Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about the 45 team, right? And we, maybe they got a little offended, a little light-skinned on the, you know, the comment that, well, they're just. good on restarts and they're just good on the short run but we we got more overall speed and we're better in the long run and they're like oh so they wanted to have a little heads-up competition this weekend right try yeah it was like you know every member of the 45 team in 2311 was like

coming after me they wanted a piece of me and then which means they wanted a piece of you was what it seemed like and right you know they're they're great at trash talking when they're first Yeah, didn't Michael say that it's easy to talk trash when you're up on the scoreboard? It's tough when the score is even or whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. This was also a low stakes bet before they got involved. Yeah.

They're the ones who raised the stakes. And I wasn't at the bar when apparently the stakes got upped. We originally had a bet where if you beat Redick, Rambo, who is the- Car Chief was going to have to wear a 11 against the world or some sort of Denny Hamlin's shirt next weekend at the track. And if it was Redick winning, I'd have to wear some 45 gear. And winning meant just finishing ahead. Finishing ahead. Yeah, yeah. And then they weren't really happy with that because I also said, I'm like, what worse? I get some new 2311 gear. So that's. Right. You thought it was a win-win.

And then I said, okay, I will come on this show and say the 45 is simply better than Denny Hamlin. And then... And the download. yeah and then laletta i think got involved and this is where then it got good is because oh he wanted rambo to come on this show and have his flowers and you know cake and eat it too he'd get five minutes i said that's fine i said well then i want uh a sticker on the car and leutta said it will put your name on the car if denny wins that that's a bonus yes as a bonus so the bonus for either one of us winning is either he gets to have his five minutes to talk on the podcast or we get a sticker on on and i said i said i don't want my name i want the denny bros name on the car right

okay which is why you were on the hunt today on social media for logos one up i i was working all today by the way i walked in this door after working all day um did did did you you nail down? I saw on the group chat. You are working on something. We've decided on one. You did. Yes. All right. We'll debrief what that is. But are you really going to sit there and

tell the media that that's why you jumped? Are you really going to pin that on me? No, I'm actually, I was pinning it on Rambo. Okay. That, you know, he was on the grid talking smack. You know, you better have your work boots on a day.

I said, okay, buddy. All right. And what did I say? What did I say in our group chat? We're going to be silent killers today. Silent killers. Hold up that that means that you're admitting that Rambo guy in your head a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

He's going to love hearing that. I know. He will. But he kept talking about the start. He's like, you'd just be ready right there on turn one. We're going to be laid on that door. You'd just be ready. And I'm like, okay.

You ain't on this door if I'm out here. That's right. The other thing is that... Can't be on the door if I leave from... Sorry. Was it somebody on social side that I left from Broadway? Yeah. Parker, Parker.

The other thing is, is on the way to the track. It's Denny, Alex, and I riding. And Alex is not very well-versed in NASCAR stuff. And he was asking about restarts. And he's like... What is he well-versed in? Social media. I guess.

He asked you about when you can go. And you go, well, you can go a little bit for the line. They're not going to call you. it and you get your first ever penalty oh we did discuss this yes i totally a audience i know we're you probably are not keeping up with everything right now but we did discuss this on the way of the track he's like so when he asked when you can go and i says well you actually can leave slightly before what visually looks like you taking off there's a delay so when you hit the gas, there's a delay from when the TV shows you actually taking off. It's like, it's just,

it's just, it's a little bit. And I was like, so usually you can leave slightly before the line and it will look on TV when they're reviewing like it's like it's at the line. And so he's like, oh, okay, okay, okay. But I actually had no idea that I had to wait to the line. I thought I could just go whenever I wanted to. So I was just trying to mix it up a little bit. And I was really, really surprised to see in my camera, nobody within sight entering turn one. I couldn't believe it. I thought that, oh, my gosh, was everyone just sleeping?

Like, what, I really got them. And there was a part of me coming off turn two. like, oh man, I hope they don't say anything. You know, it's just, I know people have been penalized for this before. But like, I don't know what the parameters are, but it's, it's written in the rulebook that you got to wait till at least the restart zone. Yeah. We were watching on, I had just gotten back to the bus with Travis.

And I was like, holy shit. He really worked on his restarts. What a great start. Cherries did the rest not go? It rests not go? And then it comes around. I was like, oh, they actually didn't, they didn't go. No, they didn't go.

Well, I bet they were, man, I bet the 45 bunch was loving that, knowing that when now you're, you're going for first to last and we just inherited the lead. Thank God for the competition caution. Yeah, yeah. Although, you probably get lap then. No, no way. Yeah. You know, I was just coasting around in fifth gear, right? I was just trying to give the team options.

So on the radio, I said, I'm just going to slow down here and give you some options. I'm not going to wear my tires out in case you want to, if you want to stay out, let's stay out and get the lead back. If I got a, you know, it ain't like I'm going to fall all the way back to dead last where I'm at. So, so I just wanted to give them some options, but we took four tires anyway, didn't, you know, restarted about 34th. Gotcha.

So, no, I was just, I just was pacing myself off the 45 and going to run a decent enough pace to not go a lap down. They were keeping me updated of the gap, but, but no, I wasn't trying to go because I knew there was nowhere to go, nothing to gain other than don't get lapped. Gotcha. We didn't know that. We thought you were about to get lapped. We're like, we just got to get to lap 35 here. No, no, no, no, I wasn't going to let that happen. So we go to the back of the pack.

My car instantly drives horribly because we're just, we're not set up to run in the back of the pack. We, we plan on running up front all day and in somewhat clean air. And I'll tell you at Nashville, it is true. That is a... Hey, what's up, guys? Just here to clean your pool. What the hell is that? What is that?

What's going on? Do you know where the net is to clean the pool? Oh my god What's up guys Hey I finally get to meet trash Is this Scotty? This is Scotty It's got too high

It's not trash Oh my gosh What are you wearing Come here Come here Here's got it's got it Right here Here come out of here

Come take a seat Turn around So the camera can see you You're too tall Back up a little bit Back up Watch the Wow

Wow Your wife let you out of the house like that Yes she did She didn't care She was very happy You got a couple of paps How you doing man Man?

Man congrats Thanks Wasn't gonna later Yeah Crackle Barrow 400 So we were just talking about His restart Scotty is on the

Denny Bros. Chat Those of y'all don't know This is Scotty Austin How are y'all doing? What are you talking? What is You got to pit bifers on and everything. I know, bro.

Feel good, don't it? Me and Scotty went to school together. This is where you grew up? That's where I grew up. Him, Ronnie. Hey, we had some good times, brother. You can take the boy out of Chesterfield, but you can't take the Chesterfield out the boy.

I love your shirt. Is that, yeah, is Joe Exotic? Joe, yeah. Mary Lou asked me where Joe was, and I think he's in jail, right? I think so, yes Well Oh my gosh

Well This has gotten sidetracked pretty quickly Where do we go from here? I don't even know where to go from here I just want Scotty's thoughts on the race yesterday Yeah it gives us Okay So hold on

Scott he's in the Denny bruce Yeah yeah he is he's on the chat You did ask kind of a silly question At some point That's silly, That's the stupid question. What was it? I don't remember.

I forget what it was, but it was when Austin says, God, Scotty, that was. Are we going to race, I think, or something? Oh, yeah, no, because I didn't know. I wasn't at the track or nothing, so I said, hey, are we going to race? And he said something. You don't. You probably don't have Amazon. No, I don't.

No. My internet was down at the house. Okay. All right. So, so I guess you got to maybe see some highlights. I did. Or did you keep up through the group chat? Because that thing was on fire when I.

So I fell asleep. Like everybody else. Like everybody else. With five laps to go. How do you wake up with five to go? Someone woke you up? Yeah. No, I just did.

I woke up. Okay. And it was awesome. What a great race. The end of the race was phenomenal. I mean, it was awesome. I think that was one of the best races of your career. I think.

It was really good. It was fun. The end was fun. Of course, we were on the good end of it, and I've lost so many that way that Christopher Bell has that, it definitely felt good to get this one back. But yeah, it was very unexpected. We didn't have the best car by any means.

We were beat and had some good fortune. Usually the late race or late stage cautions have not. not been kind to us. Where would you rank your car? Because I'm curious. Fifth. I ranked it fifth. I think that's where Jared and I were kind of like, at one point, we feel like we just

got like a fifth or sixth place car, unfortunately. Like I never was around the five, but, you know, looking at lap times, look like he was strong. Blaine, he was strong. Obviously, the 1920 were better than us. And maybe there was one or two or other sprinkled around that were better. But, um, Jerry, you're going to have a beer? Kind of what I had.

He just said, oh, hey, mom. We have some victory syrup, it says. He thinks that it's tea. He thinks that that's tea. Tea. Tea. Like sweet tea, but it's not sweet. That big container right there.

Right here. It's not for syrup? Do you need my... No, it's not syrup. Here, take this up there and try it. Just grab it. You know, I'm a 45-year-old still living with my mom. Because y'all are wondering, like, why she here.

And crackle barrels got good chicken and dumplings, too. It is by choice either. It is not by choice. She was actually supposed to move into her new house today. And they had a leak. A pipe bust or something. I know. Unbelievable.

Unbelievable. I know. And now there's, we've got to get these big repairs done. It just. Jared, are you going to have a beer? Jared's not really a beer drinker. I'll take a drink for Scotty. Yeah, drink for me.

I wasn't... Shh, shh, shh, shh. Cheers to victory. Cheers, cheers, cheers. Cheers. I don't go let all you all have the fun at Nashville. I can tell you that. How come you didn't go with us to Nashville?

We gave it the invite. I know, I know. Well, it was my son's last baseball tournament, and I couldn't miss that, so... Gotcha. I felt bad after I woke up and watched you win the race because I wish I was there, but it was going to make an exotic appearance. It was a fun weekend.

There was lots of late nights. I tried to get my whoop score up to the green by Sunday. Just my body would not let that happen. So I was only 43%. That's my lucky number though. That was low going into a race day for me. That's unacceptable. But, you know, every now and then.

you just got to live a little i know my phone's going off all right so where are we at now trap we established we jump to start do we go to let's just go to the end okay okay um like what we're we're we just like just let me get up there and let me just get like a top five and yeah i was give me third and get out of here head home um You know, because the late-race cautions have not been great for us. Obviously, we've not been good on restarts, and so I didn't want to test that theory. But you were great all day on restarts. We were.

We were. We had a really good day. We've gained a lot of spots, and there was a few crucial moments that allowed us to gain the spots we needed. I'm so distracted by Scotty and his outfit and stuff. I guess I'll let you boys have at it. I'm going to go swimming in your pool. I thought you were here to clean the pool. Oh, I'm going to clean the pool first, and then I'm going to jump in.

Don't pee in the pool. Oh, I was getting ready to say I have to use the restroom, too. So I am going to pee in your pool, by the way. All right, well, thank you for stopping by. Guys. And, uh, what's going to be shorts? Huh? Papsule ribbon.

Papsule ribbon. Come on. Come on, man. All right, you're the man, Scotty. Scotty, too, hotties. Scottie. Nice boots. Before you leave, bring one more over, though.

Yeah, no problem. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. This is my first time meeting Scotty. What a day. What a weekend. Is he everything you thought he'd be?

Yes. You got to go out with him one night. He'll give you the jackhammer. He'll give you all the moves. Yeah. So at the end of the race, I mean, I'm thinking let's just finish where we're at. don't lose anything you know

if the 19 and the 20 this is totally off the rails if the 19 and 20 have an issue maybe I can slide by but yeah I push the 20 out we had talked about after last week at Charlotte like how can we do a better job pushing each other on restarts

and so I thought we executed that really really well and he just he got in a turn one a little deep trying to clear the 19 and it let me get beside him. And once I got in that leverage position on the bottom, it was definitely the place you wanted to be when you're in the front. At that point, I just was able to hang on to his left rear lap after lap until finally, you know, I kept trying to clear him, try to clear him.

And I realized pretty quickly there was no amount of driving into the corner that he was going to let me clear him. He was going to drive just as deep as I did. There was just no way I was going to clear myself, no matter how hard I side-draft them down the straightaway. So at that point, I'm thinking, okay, I've done this before. I've seen me make lots of mistakes in these positions where I end up trying to clear myself, up the racetrack, we're slow, and either here comes somebody else where I get a terrible runoff and he clears. So, you know, my mentality shifted on that last lap to, I'm just going to run the fastest lap that I can, this lap.

I'm going to hold the bottom and just see what happens. And if we come off turn four side by side, I've got a shot. I didn't realize the 19 was coming with such a huge run. And we were three wide. I think that was the moment for us that allowed us or made probably Christopher drive in as deep as he did. because not only is he trying to stay beside me, he's now defending to try to make sure that 19 doesn't get beside him. So he drives in, obviously overdrive turns one and two.

And when I carved the bottom, it was just, we cleared, and it was over after that. Were you worried, though? Because you guys made contact. Were you worried that that might, you guys are just going to wreck each other? Not really. I mean, we were always, we were in control of our cars pretty much the whole time.

Um, there was a few times off of turn two where we kind of got hung together. Um, folks, this is why we tape in the mornings, like when everyone's gone and you're not here. Now Taylor's here. He left. Um, went outside out and nowhere. All right. All right. Okay. This is going to take a lot of patience for people to listen to this. Good love. Thank you. Hey, I was reading some of the comments on your thing and everyone said they want a, they want a, they want a, they want a,

an episode of me and all. I will do that. Jared, hook me up. Okay, we'll discuss later. Yeah, can you, we're, we're, we're red right now. Thirteen year old girls, it's, it's fun. We're having fun.

We're having fun. Um, I don't even know where I was. This is the worst episode of us. The three of you worried about, like, reckon. So I knew that I was going to alleviate myself of responsibility by just running the bottom and whatever happens happens. But we were always in

control. Even when we were kind of hung together off a turn two and then off of turn four coming to the white, we weren't really out of control. Like we were up against each other, but not really out of control. So we talked today and he was like, man, I thought you race me very fairly. And you know, you let me go a bunch during the race. And I was like, yeah, you're just so much faster. It's, you know, what am I going to do? Just hold you up just because, like, you clearly were our best shot to win as an organization. So I wasn't going to impede that. But things just worked out good for us at the end.

I think all the circumstances that came together allowed us to clear on that final lap. So that battle went on for, what, three, four laps? You started on the second row. At what point, like, where in this four-lap battle was the, the, the power. Like, did you ever... Off a turn two, first lap. You overtook control?

No, it's just when I got beside him off a turn two after the first corner, that's when I was like, I know I can stay here. Oh, okay. I can avoid, I can keep him from clearing me in this position right here. So that was when I felt actually fairly confident. We had a good shot at it. I didn't know if we were going to win, But I knew we had a good shot at it at that point.

A good shot because you could hang there. I was in the leverage position on the bottom. Okay, that's where you wanted to be. Yeah. Were you surprised that you could hold the bottom line there? Because you guys didn't, we'll get to why, but you guys didn't pit so you're on old tires. Are you surprised that you were able to hold it like you were? Yeah, and we missed the balance of our car.

So we weren't very good anyway, right? I mean, you know, very pedestrian for a track of that size in the 11 car on speed. But, you know, it just, I was in the preferred groove, you know, right after a restart, the tires cooled down. He had the faster car, but was in the non-preferred groove. So it kind of just leveled things out a little bit, which is why we were side by side for so long. So if he's in the non-prefer, why should he have taken the inside then? He did. He did, but he moved up.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He moved up. Once I got him clear of the 19, he moved up. Actually, opened the bottom lane for me, but I asked him today. I said, you know, what was your into one? What were you thinking on? Like, were you just, did you drive into one hard because you were worried about me getting in there to the bottom? Or were you trying to clear chase?

He says, I was worried about chase rolling my outside. So I wanted to make sure I drove in deep to keep him from doing that. And when I did that, missed the corner. and there you were. Was this a similar situation we see when when Larson restarts behind you? And he goes to the bottom. This is similar? Similar.

You were in that position this time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when we raced on restarts, latent restarts, you know, my faults have been just allowing him to get down there. And, you know, that's the one thing that, you know, I certainly can't do. But this time, he allowed you to get down there. Right.

By not hitting the bottom. them in turn one. Yeah, I mean, it was a hell of a three, four laps there. It was quite the show. It was exciting to watch. I know it was exciting in the car, but when you add, you know, the announcers and their call and play by play, it just, it certainly was more exciting to watch it than it was actually in the car because, you know, we're, it's quiet there.

And he's just, my spotter has given me information. And I don't remember getting excited or, you. you know, nervous at any point, heart rate stayed level. What's why, you were watching your N-car on the way to the airport, and I said, I'm like, Lambert is so calm that it makes sense while you're not, like, you're all so calm. Like, it just, it seemed like. You feed off that energy. It seemed like it was lap 102 by just, you know, the way of Lambert and his voice.

Yeah. And you could see kind of movements within the wheel and how I was shifting. Like everything was very flowing. It wasn't, you know, quick twitch movements because, you know, you're trying to react quickly. And that's typically, you know, that's just experience. You know, I've been in these situations for so many years now. And that's all that was. It's just experience in that moment.

And when you fail at enough of them, you eventually hit a game winner, right? You know, you brick plenty of them. You find a way to actually hit one. And you had no idea that you were three wide. after taking the white there going into one and two. I heard him call the 19, but I didn't know where he was. I didn't.

But thank goodness I allowed enough room on the outside for both those cars. Yeah. Yeah, I thought at that moment, the 20 was going to clear you, and that was it. I was staying and watching next to Charlie. It was a bad camera angle.

Like I like a lot of what Amazon does, but that you couldn't, they didn't use the conventional corner cameras and straightaway cameras. They were doing it from above. Now that lets you see a lot. It really does. It really helped there. But it looked like, and you even heard them call it,

that the 20 clears, but if you watched it from other angles, they didn't call me beside him until I was already past him and clear, because you just didn't kind of see it. It was just a weird angle from above. when we were battling on that last lap and so you didn't see that I was pretty much there the whole time

and you didn't see how much his momentum got broken because of the camera angle. Right, yeah, no, and then it rotates around. Right, the camera's moving with the car so you don't, you have no indication of speed where with the static cameras you see when someone loses momentum. Yeah.

What was your thoughts when Gail said you're staying out? Yeah, I mean, asked him how many cars were on the lead lap um he told me 15 at that time we're third and i'm thinking at least 10 cars pit there's got to be 10 that pit so i would rather have tires and be 6th or 5th than no tires and third that was my thought and um he was very confident and he says it's my call we're staying out. Yeah, there wasn't like a, hey, what do you think here? No, I loved it. I loved it. Because I certainly was like, I don't know. You know, I haven't been great on restarts. We're on old tires. New tires are going to be no further back than about two rows from me.

They're going to be right beside me off the turn two. And just, we never saw them. I mean, we ran, what, 30 laps of green somewhere in that neighborhood? and we fired off running like within a tenth of our fastest lap. It just, there was no fall off in these tires. One thing, and in a, you know, really praised good year, the one thing they definitely could do to improve kind of, what I think is happening in why Nashville is such a aerodynamic track position racetrack, is the left side tire is a little bit too hard.

And it's a lot of bit too hard. And so I think that it's always skipping across, the racetrack. It's never really gripping the track. So all it takes is a little bit of wind or dirty air to take off of your car, take that air off. Now that tire has nothing pushing it down into the racetrack. So now it's really sliding across the track at all times instead of being saturated enough to actually grip it. So they need to lower the saturation number of the left side tire here at Nashville, and I definitely think it could improve the passing at this racetrack. And listen, me, me and the 20, yes, we came from the back.

But equal tires to equal tires, there wasn't a ton of passing throughout the day. The passing had to come from different strategies and someone on fresher tires than someone else. Yeah, the random collins. That pretty much how it happened. I mean, yeah, you came from the back, but a lot of things had to fall in your favor to make up track position. you did have good restarts. There were multiple restarts where you gained a bunch of spots.

Yep. I mean, it certainly makes it easier. Things fell in your favor. Yeah, they did. No question about it. Every time we gain three or four on caution comes out. Well, now strategies in play, and we made up a few on strategy,

and it was just a slow chip away. Like I could kind of envision that purple bar in the bus just, ding, ding, you know, just slowly as race moved on, moving up and up and up. Yeah. It was a steady climb. Yeah, there was a moment during it, a handful of Denny Bros were in the bus, and it's like, oh, I think he's just plateaued here at 12th, 13th, whatever you were in.

I was worried that they made changes to the car because you were in the back and you were like, they just need another pit stop to fix the car. Back to clean air car. Yeah. Right. I don't I think what we had was unfixable I think that I just didn't send them in the right direction overnight I thought I yeah I told you I thought we were going to be good and and whatnot but yeah it's just the track didn't do what I thought it was going to do well you got this nice shiny guitar right

this you said on Saturday you're like man this is one that I want yeah just I mean mean it's a new race track i haven't won at the race track it's a it's a unique trophy it's very cool it it says race winner on it so you know it's not just some random guitar um it's a really nice guitar apparently we thought that we left the uh guitar stand in victory lane and uh they said uh no you don't you don't get the stand um we'll sell you one okay okay all right uh so i guess we're going Can I treat you the case for the stand? Right, right? Although the case is pretty money.

I mean, this guitar's going to look good on that centerpiece. Yeah. Yeah, it will. You got some big trophies this year. You know, from the cup race, I want to give a couple shoutouts. Zane Smith, two weeks in row has been arguably the best Ford. Blaney was good. You expect him to be good and be kind of the standard of speed.

with the forward group. But Zane Smith, the last couple weeks, really, really, really good finishes and good speed. So he's found himself, you know, not crazy far out of the cut line now. Where's he at? 20th? But how far back is he?

30? Yeah. Like, you can do that. I mean, again, he's, he's going to have to leak for all teams, you know, and drivers that have been there before. But he's shown some really good speed. I thought the legacy cars were better than they have been.

SVG. SVG had another good race. I tell you, he's putting himself in some spots, though. He's also sticking it in there, like, late on corner entries, where he's putting his competition in some not great spots. And it's probably, I saw him and Chase on the last lap.

I think he ran into him two or three times. It, I would just give warning that, like, eventually that, that they're not going to let you just keep doing that without retaliating on you. Maybe they won't say it on the radio, but just be careful of that SVG. I liked his quote, and I'm paraphrasing.

He said something along the lines. Like, it's amazing. You run up front, your car's good. You're running the back. Your car shit. He's very matter of fact when it comes to that. Were you around Hosevar at all last night? I feel like a few drivers were upset with him.

No, I saw the highlights. You know, he was doing very similar things that SVG was doing. So what would happen is we're all got to slow up for the corner on restarts. Well, they'll, they're starting to do this thing where. you know, we're, there's not really room, but they're jamming it in because everyone's checking up for the corner and there is like a road course.

You know what, you know, and turn one of road course is like, well, that's not where you should be running. And yeah, you normally break at that spot, but not when you're 20th in line. They're just jamming it in there and like whatever happens to the people above happens to them.

And so it certainly, I think there's some guys, or take an exception to those moves because it's putting them, you know, you're putting them at risk to cutting their tires, sending them out, knocking them up the racetrack. And I think there was a few incidents is because of that.

So just, you know, it's, that's, that's their choice. And I think that's actually how he got into Ricky Stenhouse last year. Carson member. Oh, yeah.

His inner in turn three, just he went in there pretty deep. And Ricky, that's another drive out of, Great performance. Ricky had a great drive there at the end. He was the benefactor on the last lap of the SVG kind of running in a chase a couple of times.

But, I mean, kept himself in the game. I mean, that team, this is a couple weeks now. They're punching so far above their weight. What's funny to remember last year at Nashville, he was in the playoff contention until he got wrecked. Like, this was, we shouldn't be too shy. by this. Yeah.

Why do you think we see so much carnage at this track? Ten cars, DNFed. Everyone knows that after two or three lapsed a new single file out, I mean, if you gain one or two spots, a run, you've done something. I mean, it's honestly that hard to, you know, make passes. If I showed you a chart of like positioning, you would see lines crossed, which means people going up, people going down in positions for the first three or four laps, and then everyone just, you're in that position for the entirety of the rest of the run. So what happens is that everyone's

fighting for that first couple of laps. And so they're going four wide. And, you know, next thing you know, someone on the bottom doesn't realize you got three cars on the outside and someone gets squeezed. And it's just, it's that type of racetrack that they know they got to make hay in the first few corners. Why do we have cars though having lots of just issues, break rotors? So this is a racetrack. The reason this is a big break issue race track is that you have high speed straightways, low speed corners. So with that very similar and you'll see this also when we go to St. Louis. So there'll be a different aerodynamic package at St. Louis as well, which is going to be this lower one. What the higher horsepower and lower downforce package is,

goes much faster down the straightaway. But since you have less downforce, the straightaway, the corners are slower. Well, that's a bigger delta now, right? So you got to use the brakes to get to that delta. So it takes more braking force with this high horsepower package. And so it just really takes its toll on brakes if you get them too hot, too cold, they'll start shaking. So, you know, this won't be the last time we hear about break issues.

So is that, you know, is the driver involved that or is it just the way the parts are? Like, can you as a driver massage that a little more? A lot of it is parts and kind of where your team decides how much cooling they want to put in. Yeah, the tar kept showing like how much air different cars were letting in. Yeah. And what's happening too is I think it's, you know, those long straightaways, what it's doing is shocking. system. So as it's, you're going down the straightways, those rotors are, they're steadily cooling off. Well, what happens when you have to hit the brakes to make the sharp corner? You shock them all

at one time and it spikes it. And so these rotors just go through these big cycles of cool hot, cool hot. And sometimes they get a little bit oblong and that's when the, you'll hear people start talking about, I got break shake. Well, you know, sometimes to, to alleviate that to make them run more consistent temperature, you add more tape to make them run hot more often. So it doesn't cool. You don't want them to cool as much as they're cooling. So tape it up, they'll run a little bit hotter. Now, when you hit the break, they're going to run even hotter. But that's when you'll get the brake fade. That's when the pedal goes all the way to the floor. You've gotten the whole system too hot. So it's such a balance. And then how do you how do you apply the

break. That's a factor in whether you're shocking the system or whatnot. So it's a complicated problem that has been around for decades and a lot of it is just the tracks that we run on and the cooling and the parts and pieces we've got.

Yeah, because trackhouse was primarily inflicted. They had too, right? Yep. And SVG that gets on the radio was like, I'm worried they're like, no, your setup is different than Ross and Zilich's you're good. Yeah, I know it 2311 a few years ago i think all of our cars blue or rotor at at gateway yeah i think it all except kurt bush so it yeah you you you try to figure it out and you just you don't know

exactly what the right equation is but it it's a moving target have you seen any of the replays of these these on track incidents i'd austin dylan and brad casalski i did um i thought that the Brad one, you know, it clearly looked like accident. There was some kind of checking up going on. Similar to the Austin Dillon. The Austin Dillon actually looked similar in which how he spun and or wrecked Brad Kislauski. Now, I do think that Austin more than likely was trying to get back to the six.

He probably was not happy about being spun out. Although it kind of worked out for him in that cycle. I thought it worked out for him. Maybe he didn't. Was he on the lead lap? It doesn't matter. But yeah, you're, you know, you see an opportunity to hit the guy in the same exact spot that he hit you and spun you out. But he, Brad didn't spin him out, though, was?

I thought it was. Yeah. I thought on the radio, they told him someone else got him. We pulled the quote. Yeah, I'm not sure. But, I mean, the three wouldn't, you know. If he was targeting, he wouldn't target a guy that didn't hit him. So when Dylan was spun, Austin said, Brad, then said, who wrecked us?

And he was told, it was kind of a perfect storm of the six blocking you and the 17 turning you. Because Brad was in front. Oh. Well, you would think then the three thing, you would say that's not malicious then. You wouldn't try to, and you wouldn't try to intentionally wreck someone that was in front of you when you spun. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can be mad at their block. you're not going to be mad enough to wreck them on purpose.

Yeah. I think it's a nothing burger. It's just, you know, I got these standings right here in front of me. It's like, Ross Chastain in 26th doesn't seem real, right? I mean, that team has just had, they've had horrible performance, and then here lately they've just had a horrible result, right? I mean, they started the year off, not good at all. really slow.

And I think that they've righted the ship. I thought that Ross is one of the best cars. It's top three in practice. And practice. And not just top speed. I'm saying, you know, give me your top three

best cars from practice. I'll give you a lot different list than what the results will show. You know, a lot of it depends on when you're going out. When are you, you know, how good are you in the short run, long run?

You know, do you have, do you stop in the middle of your runs during practice? That can really, really skew a lot of things. All that stuff really matters. But I would have said that the one showed great pace, short run, long run. You saw it in his interview how excited he was with his car after practice.

And man, I mean, this is the results have just been really crappy. And so I'm starting to have to think about jumping off. the Ross makes the playoffs train. I mean, he's not, he's 60-some back with plenty of racing left. You know, he could put up a 50, 60-point day if they get the team righted and, you know, back to where it was. So, and it's, and it looks like it's trending. The team is trending in a better direction on speed.

What if I told you, though, that the one team this year has only had two top tens and the best finish outside of that is 16th. It's wild. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what else would be more surprising than Ross in 26th or Joey in 18th. I would say Ross in 26th, right? I'll tell you the most shocking for me, William Byron and 11th. More so than Chase Briscoe in 14th?

Yeah. Well, Briscoe is only 14th because of the start to their season, right? I mean, so much ground to make it. I buy that, Trave. I do. I think people would have said William Byron's going to compete for... William Byron's always a top four in points regular season. And under this model, I thought his consistency would...

Yeah. They haven't had a consistency, and they certainly had not had the speed that they had last year. And they had a few unfortunate weeks with it. But it's like, he ain't that far from being right there fifth, sixth. Like, you know, there's just, there's a group there starting at Kyle Larson and six that, you know, there'll be a lot of moving going on in that area for the next few weeks. Speaking of Larson, I'm glad he got to pit road. Is that? That was that smoke?

He blew a tire, punctured a tire. The smoke is from a punctured tire? I don't know what. Or did he spin out? Like, what caused that ball of smoke? I have not seen a replay of him. Because it was very isolated. in one spot.

I thought like a grill blew up or something. Like it was just random smoke. Yeah. I mean, man, what a shame that would have been to break up that battle. He did a complete at least $360.

If you go to, I've got the link in our notes at the bottom. I've got his onboard. How is this not a caution? I guess because it's at the entrance of Pitt Road. I'm shocked that that wasn't a caution. maybe they were watching that two-by-two battle for the lead and they're like did you just say go denny the on board Travis

uh no if he goes to the shared note it's there I've got it I've got it wow what he had a bad turn one what happened oh he's losing did he have a flat right from the get-go had to have it had to have been right from the get-go unbelievable man that's unfortunate um did you see the end of it though

no I'm getting there uh he's coming to pit road uh that he might have did that on purpose because he gassed it he gassed it in a spot

you should be deselling and not let me look here yeah look that's like a hot Yeah, look and rethink what you want to say because... I'm saying I think that he did not care if that car spun out. That's my opinion. But I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything.

But as a driver, I'm watching how he's coming there. I think he was really hoping for a caution to... But I don't know. He could have just got hung. He could have got hung in the seam. And if he's got a flat tire... he says his tires not flat what's a caution

for him at this point besides keeps him on the lead lap restart you never know restart restart another caution there's only 15 cars on lead lap Jared that's fair

that's fair that's why I asked the dumb question so you could answer but I'm glad I'm glad it stayed green yeah

yeah because when he was spinning he also was like burning out while he was spinning like usually you're just trying to if you're in a hurry to get going like you're you want to just get your ship righted as soon as possible

but i don't know thank goodness there was no caution there uh we saw the smoke though coming off turn 40 he said tracks clear just keep digging um tough day for the 23 they've they've been on a slide man they've had they've gotten caught up in so many wrecks um you know they i think they had some damage at Charlotte. They got caught up in that All-Star rec the week before that. And just, yeah, they've had more interviews out of the care center in the last month than they've had post-race.

So just, you know, kind of getting caught up in some of these crazy restarts and positions. is, you know, putting them, you know, a lot of it, too, is they haven't had a chance to qualify, so they're, you know, they get caught in the metric because of their bad finishes, and, you know, you next thing you know, you're just, you're kind of stuck in the middle. And when you get stuck in the middle, that's kind of where all the shit happens, and he's gotten in all the crap, no doubt about it. So he's falling all the way to 15th. He's still got a okay lead over,

Cendrick for 16th, but not the spot. I'm actually pretty surprised he's not further back from 10th or 11th that he is, considering how bad it's finished has been over the last month. It's been bad for the 23. Yeah, that's the bright spot of this for the 23 team, is that, yeah, you're right there bordering the cut line, but you're also only one decent race away from getting back up to the top 10. I have a question about the standings.

You've conceded that you can't catch Reddick. you are I believe 77 realistically I mean you were 77 clear of third how comfortable do you feel and second I mean if it's just based off of speed it's fine but there's you know

there's weeks where you could go out there and finish with two points this weekend but then why don't you feel more confident that you can go get reddick well because I don't count on anyone having bad luck I can count on myself

having some bad luck, but I can't count on someone else. Do you know what I mean? So you're always going to feel more comfortable staying where you're at versus, no, you're always going to be more worried about getting caught than you are catching. Yeah. But I think, yeah, if it's based off a speed, if you look at Redick, me, Blaney, Chase, like no one really should move in the top three based off of speed. What's going to move is when there's someone,

You know, one of us finishes 30-something a couple weeks in a row. And next to you know, it's like, oh, they're there. So it could happen to anyone. Corey Heim also was putting together a good race, and he is now full-time for 23-11 next season, 2027. Yeah, it's, you know, we're excited to have Corey, and he's obviously, you know, done such a great job in the lower series. And, yeah, it's, you know, we talked about,

You know, I didn't know what kind of, I didn't even know what number he was going to run. I know it was a discussion. I had a lot of shit going on. I contributed to the press release with my quotes, but I didn't actually read the press release because I knew I was going in there and doing media availability. But, yeah, it's, you know, I think that, you know, for us, it's a performance-based business, and we want to win. and we are always going to, you know, want to put drivers in our cars that we feel like gives us the best chance to win.

And I really have been excited with Riley's progress. He's like one corner away from winning a stage yesterday, which is so far from where he has been, especially last year. And the progression, whereas he had 27th points. You know, that's a good seven spots better than he was last year. He's running faster. I think Riley's going to end up on his feet, which is going to be good because he belongs on a racetrack on Sunday. And, you know, I've been a huge Riley Herpes fan. And I think his family is just great, great people.

His mom and his dad raised a very humble, very thankful kid who works really, really hard. And, you know, I don't think we're going to see him going anywhere. on Sundays, but we appreciate, you know, everything that him and his family, uh, being part of our team for the, for, for these two years. And, uh, hopefully we gave him all the tools that he needed to succeed. And not only that, I believe we gave him an opportunity to show that he does belong on Sundays and he's going to, he's going to land somewhere because of that. So how do you handle this for the rest of the season? Because it is only June, right? And it's in everyone's best interest at the 35 car continues to see more progress, right?

Looking at the point standings here, he's not far out of having a sniff at the top 20 here. Sure. But you have a new driver coming in next year, right? So like how does the dynamic work at airspeed? Nothing changes for us. We still invest in Riley Herps next week, just like we did last week. We want that 35 car to run well.

We want it, we'd love for it to move. up that charter rankings as high as it can. You know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, we, we, we get from, from, from NASCAR is where you're, where you're, where you're, where you're at in charter ranking. Uh, Riley is still going out there trying to finish the best he can every single week to get experience and, and, and continue to improve his racecraft. So, um, I think that everyone is highly motivated to finish this year to the best of their ability. That's what's in best interest for for everyone.

On the track, uh, uh, Corey Haim was really hard on himself for causing another accident. Do you have talks with him that you might not have with Tyler or Bub because of his youth and trying to help coach him along here as he's kind of, you know, he's doing some great racing but also having some, you know, I guess like youth mistakes. Yeah, it's part of learning. And I think what he felt like is that he had a really fast car. He was faster than I was.

there was a run where we plateaued we ended up behind him same tires same everything he pulled away from us that run and he was really good on restarts and he i think he was he got mired in the middle of the pack i'm not sure if it was strategy or what what it was but he was trying to shoot to the outside the 34 is there and he just flat runs right in the back of tall gill and and wrecks him and wrecked himself in the process So I think he was, you know, definitely hard on himself for making those mistakes. And he's coming off of Texas where while he ran great, lead laps was very fast. He also ended the race junk, right? Because he backed it into turn three.

So this is part of the learning process. This is why you give these guys a few years to show themselves. Any other takeaways from Nashville? Have we missed anything? Great crowd. Great crowd. Great crowd. And they stuck around through that storm.

Yes, they did. And they stuck around through the afternoon heat. That's one thing people are like move it up. I'm like, you can't move it up too much. Dude, it was so hot at, what was it, four o'clock? I kept going inside the bus because I'm like, holy shit. It was hot. Yeah, that was the one thing I for the most part like things that Jeff and Jordan have to say,

but them complaining about, I mean, this race was anomaly, right? Because you have a rain delay. But Sunday night football ends at 1130. It's still too long of a race, though. It's too long of a race, but ending at 11 p.m. 1130 is not. Another thing, I am the CEO of NASCAR. Like they somehow, when you're looking at the length of the races, it doesn't, the math doesn't math to me.

Is that you're running the same lap times. While the mileage might be the same, the whatever 400, well, if you're running a slower pace, it takes you longer to get to that 400 miles. So on a normal mile and a half that we run a 400 mile race, like at Michigan this weekend, that race will be, you know, two-thirds of the time of what this one takes because we're running so much faster.

So it's about lap time and speed versus mileage. So at a racetrack like this, it should be 300 miles because you're running a slower pace. You can run 400 miles at Michigan, this time that you can run 300 miles at Nashville. So it's just, we've gotten, you know, this race has run really, really long for a few years now. And I think it's just, I think 300 laps at this racetrack

running the same lap times that you run up a mile and a half when you only run 267 laps at a faster pace, it doesn't, the math doesn't math to me. That's why this race goes to as light as it does. By the way, so what was it delayed? an hour and what? An hour and change. So that means it's still into 12 something. Like it's still too late.

It's still late. It's still late. It's just got to tighten it up. Do you pay any attention to truck or Xfinity? I did. I watched the truck race. I saw some of the Xfinity race, but the O'Reilly's race. I got to get that, but both of those were still.

still 2311 sponsors so you know. Truck race wow Lane Riggs had a hell of a comeback. I didn't I it was amazing because

he got he was clearly the fastest truck or fastest driver or whatever the combination of that got in the middle of the pack had a few bad restarts where he got boxed in or whatever and it just didn't look like he was going to get there.

But how much faster he was than Raj at the end of the race. And then Chastain, I think Chastain said it at the end of the race. He's like, yeah, I was just racing Raja. I knew that I had nothing for that guy or that truck. It was cool to see how it all timed itself out to equal to a last lap pass for the win. So great win for, you know, Bob Jenkins' team. And the best truck won. That was just fun to watch, no doubt.

And Justin Allgaier on Saturday. Yeah, the old man can still do it. He is running well. Great run from Brent Cruz as well. He was strong. But, you know, Justin's got such a great feel for Nashville, and he's won there. How many times has he won now?

Two or three times, at least, yeah. He's got a 179 point lead. He's got such an experience. gap over the field, right? Like the guys that he's competing against, he's competing against kids. Yeah, it's, well, I'm not going to say kids, but he's got so much more experience.

He, you know, where I feel like my advantages in the Cup series, right, is that I've just been able to be at these tracks for so many times. I know what a race-winning car feels like at pretty much every racetrack. So I search for that feel. And so some of these young guys are still I mean, it takes many, many times for you to really lock down a track and understand it.

And I think that Justin knows exactly what he's searching for right from the get-go of practice where these young guys are just, well, let me figure out where I list at this place, you know, and where's the track going to go overnight? I don't know. What do you say, crew chief? What do you got for notes? You know, so he's got a tremendous advantage because of his experience. and I feel it on Sundays is that

where I feel if I have any advantage over the field is just because I've got so many miles around those racetracks. Trave, will you be wearing your custom jorts this Sunday? They're undefeated. Those jorts are for

being at the race only, I feel like. I can't. I don't think those are meant to be worn and Cornelius. But they're very comfortable. You said it felt so much better. It did.

More air. It was so hot. Alex asked me, said, will you turn those into jorts? And I said, if Denny signs off on it, I will do it. A lot of people in social

were wondering where the scissors came from. How were their scissors at this bar? We're at a bar. I mean, they've got scissors, folks. Like, that's the least of our worries. Also,

people are like, you're ruining a nice pair of jeans. Those jeans were like six years old from old Navy. Oh, man. All right. Well, one last thing. We can finally talk about Travis and I winning performance

in the Navy Strike Group Challenge. Brought to you by America's Navy Forged by the Sea. Find out what job is right for you at Navy.com. So from the highlights that I saw, y'all were losing. We got off to a slow start. We got off to a slow start.

We didn't really know where to go. And then we ended up just following the other team because that just seems like the smart decision, you know, just like they know where they're going, hang on here, and then we'll eventually catch them. And then we just beat them in the physical challenge.

Squats and pull-ups were our... Oh. Was it you that was carrying the team tribe or somebody else? We both did squats and then it got to the pull-up part and to get some more clues. I was like, Jared, do more pull-ups. Oh, you get more clues with more pull-ups. Yeah, to get a clue, you had to do a physical thing.

Is the whole, the whole thing's on YouTube? I know there's social videos out on Twitter. There's social clips. On Instagram. Okay. We were, we were down, we were behind, it was clues, there was eight clues. The DBC crew was usually ahead by like half a clue up until the seventh clue. And then we're like, give us a hint.

And the guy's like, it's over here. I was like, give me a better hint. And he's like, just do more physical exercises. And I'll just tell you right where to go. I do love that. Sounds like cheating. No, no. So we played by the rules.

Jared's had to do like three pull-ups to get a clue. Freddie had to do three jumping jacks to get a clue. Also, Freddie did nothing the entire time. He was, Dalton did everything for him. He was useless. Like when you said he's an idiot, you weren't wrong. Fighting words right there. But yeah, so we came back with the W-2.

Way to go, guys. It was fun. Way to do our show proud. America's Navy, every role matters to the mission. Whether you're breaking the sound barrier in a fighter jet behind the wheel of an aircraft carrier or you're carrying a high-speed chase up by a speedboat on a classified mission. Every contribution matters when you're America's defense. Being part of the Navy takes skill, precision, and a team spirit.

It's not just about winning for yourself. It's about winning for all of us. It took a team effort for us to pull off that comeback. Same thing in racing is not just a driver, but the pit crew, mechanics, engineers, everybody has to pull in the same direction. It's about being a part of something bigger than yourself. America's Navy, forged by the sea, start your journey at Navy.com.

And now we're on to where the Denny Bro's name first started next week, the state up north. Michigan. It started there? Yeah, that's where, like, Dale had mentioned it, but after your win, the interview posts on Prime, he then at Danny Bros. Yeah.

That's right. Well, I love Michigan. It's one of my favorite tracks. I got lots of favorite tracks, but results have been really good there. Obviously, it's fast and turns left, so I like our chances. And stay tuned.

This episode did go off the rails, but don't forget that there will be a... Tyler Reddick will be carrying the Denny Bros. Flag at Michigan this weekend. Yes. I can't wait to put that sticker on. that car. Let's do it.

We'll do it like Wednesday. And here's the thing. If for some reason he does win, now it's submitted in a line-held tie cast. Yes. I mean, we're going to win, but he's our backup. Wow.

All right. Well, we got lots of horses in the race. I feel like Jared for once. Exactly. All right. Well, we'll see you all after Michigan.