Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - "I Won’t Apologize"

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Denny Hamlin is back in the studio with co-host Jared Allen after a wild Kansas finish that has everyone buzzing. The guys dive into all the week’s biggest storylines:3:30 Jusan Hamilton out at NASCAR5:30 Randall Burnett leaving RCR and Rodney Childers joining JRM8:15 TV ratings not looking good for NASCAR18:55 Can Outlawz upset Big Bois in Hoop Group22:40 Denny explains what happened on the final lap with him and Bubba Wallace42:40 Bubba gives Denny the middle finger50:00 Denny wanted the win for his pit crew56:15 Driving without power steering1:06:50 Zane Smith with a scary crash & SVG’s impressive top-101:19:15 First pitch at Guardians game and OSU moves to 4-0  Real fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/For more Actions Detrimental content: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimentalFanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right. Now they were warmed up. Let's get the people what they want. Yeah, let's get into the cup race yesterday. I can tell you this, Trav, though. If they're wanting an apology, they can turn off now. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. Opinions from tonight's podcast, strictly biased.

You're going to hear from my point of view. I'm a firefighter. No, you are not. The spoils a victory for Jared Allen. He's got better luck to drink and drink to win. I know, you do. Two trophies missing from your collection. The championship and the most popular driver.

Someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure. Yeah, and I've already said it. Hey guys, welcome to Actions Detrimental Post Kansas Speedway. Second race in the round of 12. Second round. Jared, I like your shirt. Thanks. This was a gift. I supposed said I was going to have the person's name here pulled up and ready when you mentioned this and I don't. This was a gift yesterday. You signed a sign one. I did. I saw this. You have your own shirt apparently. It says red vest 311 for those who are not watching on YouTube.

Does it have your name on it anywhere? Oh, on the back. Wow. I mean. Wow. I told, for the dirty-mo merch, merch people, if you make one of these shirts, you will sell at least seven copies of it because seven people have asked. Plus your family. Yeah, so maybe more like 27. Yeah. We had Xfinity, Brandon Jones, Mr. Jones, winning in the Xfinity series, strong performance by Brandon. This is one of the better races I saw him put together, and certainly the JGR cars were very fast because we saw it in qualifying.

You know, they had some speed. But Sam McCauley, my old engineer, great win for him, as well as Brandon, and they move on to the next round. But there's now two race weekends in a row. We haven't seen Connor Zillich win. However, still another top five, and this is now a record setting. Did he finish second? See?

Yeah, I think he finished second, which is, yeah. Yeah, there for a while. Yeah, he finished second. He was hanging around the top five, like the back half of it, and it was like, you know, kind of a pedestrian day for the 88, considering kind of where they've been over the last few months. But by the end, they find themselves battling for the race win. He's still 105 points.

It's good. 16 straight top five, which is the longest, tied for the longest, not with Sam Ard in the Xfinity series. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly easier in the Xfinity series to execute, but still not having, you know, for 16 straight races, not having a mechanical failure, not having a bad last pit stop. Like, there's, it's hard to do. That's execution to its peak right there.

And Conner's doing an amazing job on the racetrack, by the way. Do we want to go here from Xfinity to Cup or do you want to knock out some off-track news? We can do us off-track? First thing of off-track news, Juson Hamilton is out as race director at NASCAR with five to go. Yeah, that was interesting. It's interesting timing.

Obviously, there's something there that none of us know, and I don't think we can speculate, but they did say it was not, I don't know that they said it, or did he say it? One of the two sides said, well, it has nothing to do, performance. But those that don't know what his role was,

he was kind of in the tower on a weekly basis. One of the two guys that presses the button, I guess. I know that I've had conversations with him. I forget it was maybe last year, the year before, on the timing of the pressing of the button. You know, how it's just, it was very, there was a wide range. There was one this weekend on Sunday.

Was it? Yeah. Which one? I forget who spun out on it. Took him a matter. Oh, that was Carson. I remember. I know which one you're talking about.

It was Parker. Pocker said it wasn't performance-based. Yeah. So they were trying to see if Carson could get going. But obviously, when the camera went to Carson, you could see his wheels were spinning because he was beached there on the racetrack. So I think he would have got going if he could have. So is there any significance to this for the drivers?

Like, do you have less confidence now in, you know, who's calling the race? Like, does it matter to you in any significant way? No, it doesn't. You just assume they'll fill it with somebody. Yeah, I don't know who the other button. Tim Berman. Tim Berman. Okay.

All right. Well, just try to be as consistent as possible. possible. That's all that the competitors and the teams ask. Randall Burnett going to trackhouse to crew chief Connor Zilich next season. Yeah, I think he needed a change. I think all parties kind of need a change. And, you know, certainly Kyle's going through it right now. Certainly the performance is not there. I am a believer that Cal Bush still has the ability to go win races I do think that his cars are off

but I don't think they're off to the extent that we're seeing on Sundays like you know I don't know that Randall Burnett is making the car spin out out every week or hit the wall every week. You know what I mean? Like there's got to be a little bit of, you know, shared responsibility and, and what's going on with Kyle right now. But certainly it's not good. So I think, you know, everyone just wanted a change of scenery and they're all going to get it.

Rodney Childers to J. Yeah, it's great for Rodney. I think this is actually a really good place. For Rodney, if you ask me, I think Rodney is one of those crew chiefs that excels when he can put his hands on the car. So I think the next gen, and Rodney, if you kind of look at his next gen history, it's actually quite well. It's quite good as well. Was it what it was pre-next-gen? No.

But, I mean, things change. She was with an organization that was, you know, kind of on its downhill slide. So there's a lot of factors. But in the end, you know, the next gen car, you're kind of, you're just kind of bolting this thing together. And that's so oversimplifying it. There's more to it than that. Obviously, there's a difference in speed at the cars for how you bolt this thing together and the positions you put things and all that. but I think Rodney excels when he can work on this fender or that fender or chassis or

I just feel like that's a good fit for Rodney and I think he's going to have a ton of success. What about the recent TV ratings of the sport? Any thoughts on that? Just not good. I don't know. I mean, we, we signed the deal that we signed. We obviously lost a significant amount of network races in this TV deal. You know, in each one of the TV deals that we've signed over the last few years,

or the past few agreements that we've had, we've always just taken the most amount of money. You know what I mean? It's not been about what's going to put us on in the most households. You know, we were the guinea pigs to get channel X off the ground, channel Y off the ground. And it's just, you're asking so much of your fans to just keep chasing you around all these different networks. And I know it's, it's not that hard. But I think that Eric Estep actually, you know, when he kind of broke down what he thought the reasonings were, I agreed with them.

There's a lot of things. I think that there's a very steadfast that there's only so many sports eyeballs. People that love sports love sports. And sometimes you're just watching what's on sports. And when the NFL has taken such a lion's share of those eyes right now, record setting every single week, people just, that's their priority. and if football is not on, then I think that you've got a legitimate shot of being the next in line. But going head to head, it's just, it's going to be a tough, tough route.

You also look at, you have the NFL, but then I feel like every other weekend on a Sunday, there's another sport that has something big going on. At times there's NBA playoffs. This Sunday you had a Ryder Cup and USA was making a run. So there's always something else that's got a big event going on that you're having to battle against two. yeah and we didn't used to care about that we used to be strong enough on our own to really not care but the world has changed and and again it all comes down to shares and and if you got a hundred shares of something and 90 of those shares are saying if football is on I'm watching it

I might click between on a commercial or something but I'm watching that that's my number one priority it's it's going to be hard to get any bigger than what you are unless you start taking shares and if you're asking to take shares from football

you're doing that it's yeah can ask a question just a theoretical to maybe the people and maybe they'll hit us up in the comments why not why not own like Friday night or something you know like Friday is because Friday's when families are doing stuff that's like

are you going to be home I'm just would you say anything is better than Sunday I'm just saying it's it's not a school night it definitely would be harder for those that travel um so you don't want to just alienate them I'm just just brainstorming here you give your time people time to get back home they got Saturday to get back home if they do travel I just I don't know I just feel like Sunday afternoon it's just I just don't know that if you built a series from scratch right now a you would not be racing 38 weeks a year this is we race entirely too much it's oversaturated by this time of the year it's if other sports just cared about money they'd run they'd

They play football for 38 weekends a year, but they don't. They tried, they're trying to, right? It used to be a couple years ago. It was a 16 game season. Now, what is it, an 18 game season? It's like they're adding. Right. And they're going overseas.

Yeah. Yeah, but because of collective bargaining, players and teams will just say, no, no, no, no, that you can't do that to our people. If we, as race teams had that power to say, you know, actually have a voice in it, there's no way we would say yeah 38 weeks let's do it but I just generally speaking I'm just wondering Trave like if we're going to

go into the fall like we're doing I don't see how Sunday afternoon is an option also that time slot in these networks probably know more than I do but I feel like 3 o'clock is an awful start time you go that's the witching hour that's when everybody wants to pay attention to the NFL the most you get the 1 o'clock games ending and the 4 o'clock games starting like I feel like that is a bad spot now

These executives at networks by no more than me, but... I agree with you. Because what has driven NFL's popularity? It's fantasy teams and it's sports betting. And at 3 o'clock, you're about to either go to the cashing window or you're about to throw your ticket in the dumpster. Or you're chasing, you're like... Right? You're checking your fantasy, like...

Yes. Yes. But what do you make about Exfinity, though, on Saturdays? On CW, which is not... But it is... on CW every week and they're hitting over a million every week and I mean well you're on a you're on a network with a lot of households and and I'm not saying USA's not on not in a lot of households it is but USA it's just not known as a sports network and I know CW is not as well but they are in

college football now they're becoming that right is there any college football on USA I don't think so no no so i always figured that like once we kind of started taking ourselves off of the espns and the just the sports networks that's sitting there the TVs are always on at the bar with those channels no but no sports bar has got USA on randomly also you think about the guide if you're just going to the guide. CW is next to NBC, next to Fox, next to CBS. So it's their USA Network is not next to other sports channels. Yeah, you're going to see it next to Friends and the Office reruns. Yeah. Great movies on TNT on Sundays to watch. Yeah. Every week, though, when the tweet comes out from Adam Stern comparing this week's ratings to the same race last season, and if there's a dip in the

ratings. Do you think that's like 300,000 less core fans that are watching? Like as a sport lost core fans that are no longer tuning in weekly? I think it's the casuals. I think it's the casuals. I have no data to support that. But my feeling is you've lost the people that says football is my priority this time of year. But why wasn't it their priority last year? Like, what's changed in that respect? The NFL rating? are up 15, 20%, like big numbers. So they're taking people that were 50-50 are no longer 50-50.

And if the race isn't exciting. I'm coming up with theories here, Jared. I don't know either. I don't know either. It just seems like a big swing of casualty. It is, it is. But again, eventually it all catches up, right? And when you were tasked with getting channels off the ground,

you're going to lose some people. We just, I mean, we took the best, highest dollar amount we could, and we pieced it all together and came up, you know, with the deal that we have. But I just, long term, I just, I've always had reservations about kind of where we go with it. But it's, you know, I get it. It's tough business. It's not the same, but it reminds me when the NHL came back, when they were on the strike and everything, they came back and they took more money, but they went away from ESPN.

And you noticed early on there was a struggle for them to find their footing. If you would have taken a little less, what were your ratings would have been? Yeah, it's prioritizing long-term growth over short-term revenue. I'll be interested to see what this weekend's ratings are because, like the race did exactly what NASCAR wants it to do right it created this game seven yeah but it created a highlight people didn't anticipate that happening so they weren't i don't know that they were tuned in sure sure you know so now next week are they going to tune right right if it was the oval yeah no question i mean i can you imagine next weekend on the oval wow

just an absolute great race you would see whether it's on the Oval or the Roval it's going to do what NASCAR wants it to do and it's going to create it's going to create a highlight it's going to create a crazy What highlight SVG flipping the stage and still winning There's going to be dramatics throughout this race of guys going off the track and this happening and it's somehow affecting the playoffs maybe not as significant as it could but

they're going to get their clips it's going to happen I want to see a race on the Oval too but no matter if it's the Oval of the Roval's next weekend, they're going to get their clips. Joy Lugano's going to go off track. Ross Chastain's going to gain 13 points on them. Now they've got their highlight. Playoff driver Y goes off track,

playoff driver X overtakes them into the round of eight. I don't think it's going to sell fans, but they're going to get what they want out of it, whether it's on the Oval or the Roval. But what you're saying then is that what really matters is that you get the clip. But what I'm saying is what the race fans want to see is a great race. Yeah, I'm not saying that matters.

I don't think that matters. I think that's what NASCAR wants. Speaking of big moments, though, tonight, hoop group, I've been called on. I think that's what I'm playing. I am. Who are you playing for? The Joe's. That's just my team.

They traded you. They still want me. They're going to live. lose. You're going to lose. No, we're not losing to Tom. I told Browning, I said, he asked me if I could play. I said, the chance to see a Tom Norwood meltdown is P1 for me. So that's the goal. I can't wait to see it. So in the hook group, we are in the final four semifinals tonight. We have another rematch. Well, I have another rematch against the big boys. We are heavy dogs. We're like six and a half to seven point dogs in this battle the outlaws the team that i'm on

uh led by michael ransom we we got what is it is it called the schneide that when you get off the yeah you get off the snide is that what is that it saying it right we were on a uh losing streak i got my first win of the year now one and six um but we're still in it we won the important playoff game and this is the semifinals semifinals. This game tonight. Laws versus big boys.

Primetime 730. It's for the championship. Let's call a spade a spade. I don't think so. Is irrational confidence good? They're better than I thought they were going to be. Yeah. Chris Davis playing at an MVP level.

MVP level. Who will who will be my matchup? When I come in for my 20th. minutes. You know who they should put you on? Just to, because I know you're like, is Josh, the left-hander Josh. He's their ball handler. He always spins to the left. He always finishes left. He can't really shoot well. Okay. Although against us, the guy shot like 80%. Even made a three. Like, I don't know how he did that. But that guy, he's the ball handler. He has a go-tee. He can't

them. Got some tattoos. I want to see you guard him. Okay, but realistically, who will I be guarding? Whoever their his player is.

That's what I'm asking. Who's their shiardous player? On Irrational? Yeah. I don't know. Is it Norwood? Oh, that'd be great.

Let's get that match up. I think he's their fifth. I'm not sure he's their sixth. He might be their, he might be their last guy. I hope it's Norwood. Oh, that would be awesome. That would be so fun.

Take the ball from him. Like, if he starts dribbling, I want you to... Horse in a trailer. Horse in a trailer. Yeah, I just have to channel some... Talk, because Norwood won't be able to handle it. I know. If they get down by five.

I know. Oh, I can't wait. That'll be so awesome. That would be a nice primer for the main event. I'm going to text Brown. I want Norwood. Charlie has guaranteed a win and said that you'll have one more day to go fishing after tonight. We are underdogs.

They are the favorites. It's a team full of... of subs, Charlie got an upgrade. The guy who he has subbing for him for the rest of the year is better than Charlie. When he gets someone from the Hornets? No, basically. Good move, Charlie. Yep. The puppet master.

Hey, this is Dale Jr. And for the latest actions detrimental gear, go to shop.dirtymomedia.com. We've got plenty of options for you. We're adding new stuff all the time. That's shop.dardomomedia.com. All right. Now they were warmed up. Yep. Let's get the people what they want. Yeah, let's get into the cup race yesterday. I can tell you this, Trav, though. If they're wanting an apology, they can turn off now.

Okay? I love it. I had told the same thing on Twitter. People coming at me. I was ready for war yesterday. I bet you did. I didn't look at your timeline, but how was it? People coming at me blaming you, and I'm like,

as folks, if you're looking for me, to come at Denny, don't hold your breath. Yeah. All right, let's get in it. Why is there no apology? Because I'm racing for the win. And I definitely won't apologize for racing for the win. That's why it's dumb.

I think people are saying you're the owner. I'm like, well, if he does. No, no, no, no. On Sunday, I am the driver. The person in the 11 car is the driver. That's where the disconnect, I think, comes from. is that people expect me to be a different person. They expect me to be the guy with a 2311 shirt on

when I'm in the 11 car, and that's just not possible. It's not possible. Yeah, like, what's that say to Joe Gibbs if he's seeing that? Like, you're racing for him. I have zero doubts in my mind. I know because I know where my mind was in that moment is that I was racing the 23 the same as I would race anybody in that moment. I would, truthfully, I would race my teammates.

same way. I believe that. But was there any, like, little thought in your mind thinking that, like, man, I know where Bubba's position is in the points. I know where my position is. You got more invested in a Bubba Wallace win than a Chase Briscoe or Christopher Bell win. Yes and no, if we're being honest. There's our open cars, by the way. So we're not, it's not like we're sure. I would say, yes, again, my responsibilities as the team owner comes Monday through Saturday. Like, it is not up to me to get 2311 into the round of eight, if that makes any sense. That's not my responsibility. My responsibility is to get the 11 into the round of eight.

I'm the driver on Sunday of that 11. Joe pays me a lot of money to make sure that that car wins a championship or has a shot to. And I mean, could you imagine the outrage if I just backed off and let them have it? Race manipulation. Holy shit. People lose their minds. But instead, I think Bobba said it very accurately. We were going for the win.

both guys were going for the win. Did you see those last few restarts? Everybody was side-drafting each other so hard. Everyone was bouncing off of everything. It's the only reason I got back in the race is the 20 and the 23 had an episode off of turn four. Like that was my like, oh man, we're back. We got a shot. You know, I've got data to prove it right here.

the blue? I didn't, I backed off early. I'm on the brakes. He's the orange, I'm the blue. Look at all my previous laps. I drove into the same spot. But unfortunately, what was different is that I entered the corner and I can analyze this now. I have about a second to analyze this as I'm going down the back stretch. Trying to figure out, so as a driver, what I'm trying to do is figure out angles. What angle am I going to take this corner? Where's the guy beside me? All those things play a factor into how deep you can drive into a corner or how shallow you need to be or whatever. So now that I can analyze this more out of the car and look at things and see, you know, again, while I'm in this car and this cocoon to the going into turn three, I don't even

see the 23. I don't know how close he is. I don't know if he's a car width up. Is he right on my door? Those are all factors in how your car is going to take the next corner. And so there are things I would do differently. No doubt about it. Had I seen what I see now? No question. I would have backed off early because I would have thought, you know what, he's probably going to overdrive the corner. And now I'll just get back by him on the exit. But man, that's Monday morning quarterback. And there's no way in that split second I have to make a decision. I don't know that he's right there and we have no gap between our cars.

Had I known we had no gap between our cars, I would have known my car is about to go straight. But I had no way of knowing that. I did not know. And so I entered the corner the same amount. to the same point I always let off and my car went dead straight and it's because of the arrow situation that I was in I was closer to the 23 than I had

budgeted for and unfortunately it took us both up the track I took him up the track he bounced off the wall I slowed down enough that we you know gave the nine car the win but that is racing and I'm not going to apologize for trying to win the race that the 11 car was the most deserving car to win that

race without a doubt a caution happened Kyle Busch couldn't keep it off the wall to the end of the race otherwise we're just this is this is a non-story and we just go ahead and we win and we move on but obviously I saw an opportunity into turn three to win the race I'm a head head going into turn three, I'm thinking, this is, we're money. And then all of a sudden, I turn the wheel. It's hard as I can turn it. I turn the wheel and I'll get to the power steering stuff in a second. And I turn it as far as I can turn it. As far as my hands will let me turn it. And as hard as I could turn it. But unfortunately, when you're side by side like that and that outside car and the inside car have no space between them,

we're both just going to go up the racetrack. So it was super unfortunate. I hated it for my team. And I also hate it for the 23 team. Because, Jared, you've been in a million Q&As with me. When people ask, when people ask me, how do you balance being a driver and an owner?

What do I say? The same thing that you just said. I'm the car owner from this day this day and on Sunday I want to be the one to finish first and they can finish second and third if they'd like every time that is my answer every time I hope I win I hope they finish second and third and my mentality into the last corner because I hope I win I've got 70 races left in my career three opportunities left to win a championship I can win a championship as an owner for decades The window is closing.

60 is right in front of me. At the track, I got my very first start. Like, I, I want to be sympathetic, and I am sympathetic, and I hate it that the 23 is below the cut. But 2311 ran like dog shit at fucking New Hampshire, and that's why they're below the cut. And I hate that for the drivers, because the drivers unfortunately had to drive that.

Bubba's turnaround over the last few years has just been, I can't believe it, truthfully. The maturity that he has shown, he's been the lead car at 2311, really the entire year. I don't, you know, I think the 45 might have him on average finish because he doesn't have as many DNFs, but the 23 has been the fastest freaking car we've got. And that's something I just, I can't believe it.

Whether it's Charles DeNike and his setups or Bubba's mentality or something changed over there that has made Bubba, someone you're going to have to contend with every single week. And you're going to have to contend with them this weekend, by the way. If you haven't seen his road course skills, they've dramatically improved. I couldn't be more proud of that 23 team and what they're doing week in and week out I mean they at the beginning of the race were they in the teens struggling I just see it on my timeline of 23 cars struggling they've fallen back to blank position at the beginning of the race and then here they are battling for the lead on a green white checker I mean that is

resilient I think in years past buvah or the team or something they would have shipped it in that round halfway and just said well we're just we're not going to run good today but they fought back and that is that's what's going to keep that's what's going to have longevity for you and and win you a lot of races in the future but unfortunately he faced the driver the 11 who was very very hungry for a win as well is there going to be awkwardness when you're going to airspeed today or does every employee in that shop know that on Sunday Denny Hamlin doesn't work for us he's not on our team he's Well, I think that's where feelings can get hurt is when you have expectations and those expectations aren't met. It's why, you know, last weekend, you know, why I lost my temper last weekend is that I had an expectation.

I thought we knew that if you're in the playoffs versus out, the rules are a little, you know, the rules are different. And so the actions didn't meet my expectations. And so then I got hot. And so I think, sure, if you think that I owe you this or that, your feelings were probably hurt today. But I can tell you, anybody that had the run that I had off the turn two, got to the inside of the 23 any car that was on the racetrack

was going to do that exact same thing that was drive in I drove in I just showed you the day the last lap to the same spot I drove in every lap after restarts

nothing was different other than I had no space between the 23 if I could do it differently and I couldn't figure it out because I turned. I know I turned aggressively, but my car went straight. And my guess is that I had so much rear down force

in that moment with the 23 right there on me. We entered the, first of all, we entered the corner halfway down the straightaway. We weren't up against the wall because obviously we were trying to hold off. And so we're battling. I just, my angle was bad. And then when I tried to turn, no turn whatsoever.

and it wasn't because I drove in recklessly. I drove in the same as I did. Actually slammed on the brakes when I noticed I wasn't turning, which is the whole reason that I got the run is I just, I tried my best to stay off of them. Couldn't do it. I just was, I was a passenger of the car at that point. So if that corner plays out perfectly or the way you thought it could,

how does it play out? you, so what the only thing, you're never going to get to the wall, you're never going to clear Bubba out of the corner, right? Yeah, so what I'm thinking is that when I get to the inside of him

and we're close, I'm trying to side draft and I'm trying to pull him back to where if I can drive in and then clear him, then it's my race. It doesn't really matter how bad my exit is at that point.

Those are, that's the slide job that you see in the dirt cars. You know where the guys start low, slide all the way up, up into the front of the person that they're passing. And even though they're going really slow, the person behind doesn't have the ability to turn down and repass them, especially in this next gen car.

Once you get them in your wake, it's game over. Which is why you see us racing so aggressively on the side of each other. It's because front and back is not an option. You have to do all your manipulation of air on the sides. And so I get to the inside of the 23. I'm trying to slow him down by side drafting hard. I start to pull ahead. The 23 is trying to get down on my door to drag me back.

Well, in that instance, what happens is you look at the coefficient of the cars in that arrow situation, I've got 80% rear downforce or something. It's some stupid number. And the car didn't turn. So I just, I was up the wrong. racetrack, I tried to hit the bottom. I didn't even make the bottom. It wasn't even close. I started in the middle lane because as I turn, you can see how aggressively I try to turn to the bottom, the car is going straight at that point. And so if I had it to do over, I would have,

what I would have done is that I would have got to the inside of him, side drafted hard, and then even though my angle to the corner would have been really, really bad, I would have then try to pull away from him as far as I could to A, get as low on the racetrack as I possibly could into turn three to create, I needed a gap between our cars because with no gap, I'm not in control of the car at that point. Or I could have checked up even further, even further, which then does the 23 just outright clear me when he sees me check me? up probably but I don't know it would have been he would have had to make a split second decision as well you know I think there's only a couple ways to win it I go I run lower on corner entry even though

my angle is horrible but I at least hit the bottom and create a gap between me and him or I need to let off sooner count on him missing the corner and then trying to get it back on the exit that's the only thing I feel like if I could do it again, I'd like to try that. I'm not saying it would have been successful, but that'd be something that I will psychoanalyze of here's what I think I could have done better if I had known all these factors. But entering the corner yesterday, those other two options probably would have been less successful than the option that you took.

you took the one that would likely lead to the best outcome. I took what I thought was the best option, and that was drive in to the corner, the exact same as I always have, but that was the closest that I ever was side by side with someone in or in a corner. I didn't know, again, my nose is out front. I'm in a seat where this is what I've got.

I've got a camera, but it's in the rear view. The camera doesn't show anything on the side. I have no clue how close to me the 23 car is. And at that point, when I drive into the same spot, I have no idea that I'm about to enter the corner with no front out force whatsoever. And so I wish I could say, oh, man, I definitely would do this. But even now today, having hours and time to sleep on it,

the decision I made in a matter of a split second is not that different than what I would do the next morning. I just wish the outcome was a little different. I wish, man, I just need a little gap. I need to enter the corner, a little lower. I need to back off a little sooner. But it's hard to do when you have that quick to think about it. Instead of criticizing you for the way this went as fans,

should we be more appreciative of the way you race? considering you're the 11 car here, you're door to door with Bubba, you're going for number 60, he's going for a round of eight playoff spot in a more or less must-win race, and neither of you guys gave an inch. I mean, I thought that we had an incredible finish.

I hate that we didn't win, and then my second hate is that the 23 car didn't win. But man, it was an exciting freaking run. race and that was two competitors going for it. Bubba knew it meant a lot to him. I knew it meant a lot to me. Do you, like, you ask me, what are you going to feel comfortable going into the roval with points wise? I said, 40. I need 40. Like, because I just, anything less than 40, a mechanical failure you are in, you're in big trouble. And you would have like, I think 24, 26 had Bubba won. Yeah, how much? 24, 26, I think, is where you were at. If

when Bubba had the lead? Everyone would have been I would have been... Brisco would have been won. I would have been... Well, I don't care about... No, I'm saying like how tight... Like how the biggest swing it would have been

if Bubba won, like how many drivers would have been worried. And that, by the way, that was not a motivational factor in... Well, if I don't win, I want to make sure Bubba doesn't win. That is absolutely silly. I'm trying to win for me first. tried to make the move I made to win. I raced hard. I never ever want to be accused of racing with bias.

This should certainly silence that. But, I mean, we had a great finish. I mean, this is something that hopefully the fans can be happy about. You know, we had a fantastic Kansas race. I don't know what the question is, but I just, I just hate we didn't win. Bubba's reaction afterwards, and I don't, maybe I'm wrong in reading this, it seemed like he, his expectations how you were going to race were different. Have you spoken to him?

Will you speak to him? What do you mean by that? It seemed like he thought you wouldn't race him that hard. I could be wrong in that. That's how I felt his actions in his interviews. felt like. Jared, do you? I, no, I kind of... Yeah, I didn't hear that.

I felt like the only... The two things that I'll ask about Bubba's reaction is, one, the middle finger going down the backstretch. And then two, he said it was a dumbass move, something like that as if he said something like

in the past, I would have said something like... That was a dumb ass move. Quote was taken out of context for the graphic. That's right. For the NASCAR. But he said something like, can't talk to him? I'm not sure. Let's go to the middle finger first. If he were to flip me off in 2311 as the car owner, we'd have employer-employee problems. But as a competitor, he's flipping

off the driver of the 11. I don't have an issue with that. I mean, you know, I think you can mother-fuck the driver of the leaven because you're upset that the finish didn't go as you hoped but anything directed me as an owner i would certainly certainly have exception to that because as an owner i know the tremendous resources that myself and michael give bubba every single week to go out there and compete um we have invested a ton to make sure our drivers have the best cars possible. We're constantly looking to improve. I don't take that personally as the owner.

I'm assuming that we got someone that's in the game, on the field, in a heated moment. And I give him grace on that because I think on Sunday, well, I know. On Sunday, we are competitors. We compete on Sunday. But would he have given the middle finger to, Ryan Blaney if that move was made.

I think so. Oh, yeah. I think so. Okay. Yeah. He might have given Blaney double birds. That's what I'm saying, though, is like, would he have done it to any other driver? I think he was a little more measured when he got out of the car.

I appreciate his interview. I sympathize with his interview or empathize. What's the difference between sympathy and empathy? I should know this. You got to look it up. I mean, I don't know. You just ask me the question. question.

Sympathy, I feel sorry for you, empathy I feel with you. You're empathetic. Empathetic, not sympathetic. I think he handled it as good as he could, and he had as good an attitude as he could. No matter what he felt on the inside, I think he did a great job of showing his passion, voicing is displeasure without, you know, being over the top, I thought he was very measured outside the car. And certainly, I agree with him. We probably would have saw a different interview a couple years ago, right? I don't think we're all in agreement of that. Yeah, I think so. Now that I listen

to that back again, that quote graphic is taken out of context with his quote. Yeah, because he said a few years ago, I would have said, blank, blank, blank. Right. So what that means is, that he probably feels that way, but he doesn't, I mean, even though he said it, he was saying, I would have said that, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying we were racing hard, you know, and what else did he say? Something like, uh,

we all of our, all of us race each other hard. And, and I think, I mean, look at those last few restarts. All those Toyotas, one through five, we were side drafting the out of each other, running to each other up the racetrack. It was, no one wrecked anyone. I didn't wreck Bubba. We made contact.

That's what happens when you have five drivers all in the playoffs. That all have something major to gain. Yeah. No one's trying to screw anyone over. Everyone's trying to do everything they can to gain for their respective team. That's why I think this whole like Toyota's gave Chevy the win is stupid. Well, that is stupid. That is, that is dumb for certain.

they didn't give Chevy the win no he got he earned it but they because the to race yeah we had to race we you know there's no way I just can't imagine any scenario of any one two teammates that was would not race each other in the final

corner to move on to the next round I just I don't know know that I can fathom that. I'm sure it's probably happened. Like, Briscoe couldn't help Bubba or Reddick. Brisco would have been one point above if Bubba won. Like, he's got to go out there and worry about himself there. Yeah. What the fans should love is that everyone is going for the win and that they're the ones that get the treat. And then we are the ones that have got to

deal with all the other bullshit. You know what I mean? So, um, Listen, I was so disappointed for not winning that race just simply because I can tell you guys, and maybe y'all caught a hint on the chat. I knew we were going to win the night before. I knew it. Oh, is that the win? Can I say that when you went to?

Yeah, you were, when you're quiet, that's like that's your way of like that's your tail i just Kansas is a track I know what I need to feel out of the car and if I don't feel what I need out of the car and practice and it's still fast you might want to watch out

and I just knew it I knew it from the get-go I was in control the entire race um I ran as hard as I needed to You almost had the perfect race. Stage one, stage two, fastest lap. It just, I kept thinking I'm going to get 60 today.

Today. It's going to happen today. And I was more crushed. I mean, I was more crushed after the pit stop than I was after the race. Really? Because you were going to win if you had first. Yeah, it just, I mean, at that point I thought, you know, was fairly confident our race was over at that point.

I mean, you can't restart. Where we started on two tires with a couple laps to go and think you're going to win the race. I mean, you can have circumstances like what happened, happen, but that's lightning in a bottle. It just doesn't happen on a regular basis. So at that point, I'm sitting on the back stretch under this red, just resigned to the fact that I can't believe,

we're not going to win. I can't believe it, but it is auto racing. And Kansas has just been my worst luck track, even though the results are great. It's a bugaboo. Man, I just feel as though there's not a track that if my car can stay together and I have good solid pit stops all day,

that's just a gimmie top two. it's a gimmie and that's really hard to say against the competition these days but I just I don't think of I'm not sure I've ever had it at that track

it's just been one of those boogie man type of tracks that it just seems to mechanical issues just raise up or you know the pit stop I'm going to give props to my pit crew

I thought they did a I know, Traff. I know you're critical. But these guys are filling in, and they got a tough task. They hadn't been in this position all year. You know, maybe once or twice. And I get it.

The last pit stop is the one that is focused on. We did have one earlier. We came in first, came out. Yeah. But you came up with the radio immediately. We're like, hey, it's all good. Because I knew. I had driven my car the first run.

I come in, I pit, we lose five spots, and I immediately say, we're all good. We're all good. I'm going to get this right back. Don't worry. Because I just knew what I had. But when it happens with a few laps to go, you know, there's just not much you're going to be able to do. And so I thought that they, you know, again, you're, it's not like I just got a different pit crew. we put parts of this team together part of my other team with them like you got pick crew members are

their footwork matters they're dancing together bozzie probably could give you a much better um example of this but like the the jackman and the tire changer and the carrier when they run around the carer They get used to where the other people always step. It's choreographed. It's all choreographed, right? Which, you're being kind, but it was on a two-tire stop where he couldn't hit the jack. There was no choreography there. I hear you.

I hear you. The guy's head was slumped. You didn't think he felt it? Oh, I know he feels it. Do you know how rewarding it would have been to win that race for me? and make up for that. Like, I think everyone sometimes can get guilty of seeing it through their lens and saying, oh, you did me wrong.

No, maybe think about my motivations, right? And I, there was nothing I wanted more than to win that race after those issues. And then go into Victory Lane and go to that Jackman and say, I got you. Like, that would have been awesome, but it didn't happen. Before we move on from the ending of this race, has there been or do you anticipate there being any sort of fallout from this, whether it's with 2311 or Toyota or? I mean, there shouldn't be.

Why should there be? Should Toyota be upset that their drivers were going for the win? Or should they be upset that the second place guy didn't let the first place guy go and win the race? No, I don't think so. that doesn't mean that they don't think that way. Yeah, again, everyone has the right to think their own possible way, but there's nobody on that racetrack that would like to see the 2311 cars win more than me.

I can assure you of that. I'm the most biased driver on that track that will do what I can for the 2311 cars. But if it comes at compromising my chance to win, That's too much to ask. Again, it's, it sucks. It sucks. I, it's regretful. I certainly believe that surely I could have done something different.

There's nothing blind and obvious to me. I give you two examples of the things that, 12 hours later, here's what I think I could have done, but I had a second to think about it. And I did what I thought was right at the time. And that was try to win. And unfortunately, me or the 23 didn't win. But I don't think anyone at 2311 should question

where my loyalty is because I'm in that building a lot. Their success is my future that is. is for sure. What's it like to drive a car with no power steering? First of all, it sucks. Second of all, you know, you got to clarify a little bit what was going on. And I need to break this down with some engineers at JGR. But I noticed it very early in the race as I was swerving to try to get my tires cleaned up, it would click, click. Like the wheel's supposed to be pretty, it's same left or right. And every time I go to the right, it would go click, click, like it would get stuck,

unstuck, stuck, unstuck. And it got to where I was like looking at the coupler because I thought it was cracked. Like it was making that kind of noise right around where the steering wheel was. And I'm like, is something getting stuck in the wheel? deal. And then so, they had me cycle the engine, I think, before the last run. Is that like restarting your phone? You got an issue.

Just restart your phone? Yeah. Yeah, basically. Yeah. And so they asked me to do that. I turned everything off, which I'm super paranoid. Oh my gosh. I was so paranoid.

I'm going through three and four. I get a run on the pace car to like get myself time to get everything reset. And it's not like cutting off your on-off switch. You're cutting off the battery, everything, cutting everything off. And I'm like, please don't pull a Marcus Ambrose where he got stuck at the top of the hill. Sonoma. This is a long time ago, probably before you were born. And so I'm paranoid.

I get the thing booted back up. I'm cranked up. And at that point, I'm like, I think it's better. And then I start to warm my tires. And I realize, oh, no, I can only turn this thing a certain amount before it sticks. So I had a window in which I could operate. And if you look at kind of my steering, which you can't do, I'm more talking about inside baseball here.

But if you look the entire long run where it was that 40 or 50 lap run at the end, I had to go really, really slow and really, really small on my input. So I would just enter the corner and go and then hope I didn't get it in one of those sticking spots. So the whole time I am death grip this. wheel because if it sticks, I got to unstick it. And so there was a few corrections that I had where it would stick and then I'm pulling it to try to get it unstuck and then back into the power steering. So it's not like I didn't have full power assist, but I'm telling you, holding that wheel preparing for it to dart one way or another or get stuck one direction or another, that's what

wore me out. And when I entered the last corner, when I turned, as hard as I turned, I got it, once I got it to, as far as I could turn, I got stuck in that position. And then I unstuck the thing, and I actually wish I didn't unstuck it. I would have been closer to the nine car. But I'm turning as I'm up the racetrack, turning left, trying to stay off to 23. I downshift because I realize how slow I'm downshift This fucking wheel is hung and I'm going left We go down, we hit the nine And I get the thing unstuck and at that point I'm like

No no get back down there And it just as a driver It just it paranoys you so much because You just don't know when it's coming You don't know when all of a sudden your power steering is not there. And so your muscles, when you enter the corner, you're always, it's muscle memory.

So I enter the corner with a certain amount of force every time because I want to hit that mark that I'm aiming for. If you ever turn in a little bit too abrupt in the situation I had, it would stick. And I just constantly was ready. And if you do it with, let's say, 50 pounds of pressure and it sticks, you need 150 to break it through the sticking point. And so you can't just add that 150 right away.

I got to be ready with the 150 at all times. You know what I mean? So I'm constantly holding this thing, trying to be ready to either for a car correction or to get the thing unstuck in or off the corner. So if you drive a perfect lap at Kansas, do you have to turn the wheel enough that it would get into that sticking point?

No, if the, if the, if the, if the car was perfect and I did not have to do any corrections, I had power assist. It's if I had any of the, you know, you see us in the car doing this or, you know, having to go a little bit extra to the left, that's when the thing would stick. So I just had to be so, so, so slow. with the inputs. And most of the time I was truthfully just driving the car with the throttle because I would turn the wheel to a certain point

and then use the throttle to make the corner instead of the wheel. Yeah, because I don't know when that run started 50 to go, 60 to go. And you said you didn't have that power steering up until that caution with 15 to go. You didn't really lose much time on Bell on the green five run. Yeah, well, because, again, I was super diligent. And I had no power assist in that caution. Before that run went green,

I had nothing. I could operate in a week, you know, I could turn the wheel to 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock. So when you're warming up your tires, you're turning this thing to 3.9. 3.9. I couldn't do anything. If I got past 11, it'd stick.

If I got past 1, it would stick. So I was paranoid going into turn one on that restart because I had no steering. But I found that if I could just keep it in this really small window, I was going to be okay. I just couldn't enter the corner in the wrong spot. I couldn't turn it left. I couldn't turn it right. I had to keep it just kind of dead straight and let the throttle turn the car around the corner. So does that mean you can't have too much going on around you?

that would make you... Oh, if I had a battle, forget it. Forget it. I would have been in big trouble. Yeah, that's what my assumption was, because at some point in that last Green flag run, I had to go back to your motorhome.

And I think Jordan or someone had asked, like, oh, what's that mean? I was like, well, I think if he can keep the lead, he's probably fine. But if he loses the lead and has to pass a bunch of cars, forget it. Yeah. Yeah, and luckily...

Which really, but then that restart, you went from fifth or six to... When the 23 gave me the top, that was my saving grace because I didn't have to turn the wheel at all. Yeah. When he took the bottom on turn one and two right there and gave me the top,

like the further down the racetrack you go, the more you have to turn the wheel left because obviously the corner radius is tighter. So when he went left, that was a gift for me because I didn't have to turn the wheel and get it stuck. So I was able to keep the wheel

fairly straight at that point. So you're telling me on this last restart, you were able to run exactly where you wanted to run per that power steering situation, because you go three wide here. I got it stuck. I got the wheel stuck when I ran the bottom of three and four.

When the 23 and the 20 got up the racetrack coming to the white and I chose to run the bottom right there, I made it an abrupt mode. I think I got a push from the nine down the backstretch. I made an abrupt turn into turn three. At that point, I got stuck again. But it was stuck enough to where it was like, okay, I made the corner and I'm fine. I got off the corner. I got the thing unstuck. I'm going

down the straightaway. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm worried about. Now I'm really paranoid going into the last lap entering one. If I have to go to the bottom, I'm going to get this thing stuck again. So when I saw the 23 head to the bottom, I was like, oh, thank you. And I was just able to hold the wheel pretty damn steady at that point. I did have some corrections on corner exit, but I just managed through it. You also dealt with their throttle sticking early in the race? Was that bigger? I know. How big of the issue was that?

My guess is there was a piece of rubber that got stuck in it because it was stuck at like 10% throttle, something like that. So, yeah, I was obviously cutting the car on and off and the thing was taking off. and in fourth gear. I'm like, what the hell? And so I'm slamming on the pedal, the gas pedal, and I finally get the thing unstuck, and it didn't happen anymore throughout the day, but it was fine after that.

It's just, again, I'm going to be, I'm going to have a heightened awareness anyway at that track because of all the issues that I've had there. But, yeah, just had that one on the list. I was saying midway through this race, I was like, this seems like the moment. Every year the playoffs come, the devil comes for Denny and says, not this year, pal, I'm taking it from you.

And it was like, oh, wait, maybe this year he's actually going to win this fight. And that moment he's going to overcome in some way. Yeah, I think I let off a big in the car. That's when my power serum went out totally. It was, I had nothing. There was no operating zone. So it was under caution. Yeah.

And I just said, it broke. Whatever it was, it finally broke. They said, cycle the power. I cycled it. Oh, okay. I've got a little something now. I just have to be very, very sensitive to not turn the thing too much of the left or too much of the right. What if you had zero power steering?

Oh, no chance. I don't think anyone in the field could do that. What else happened in this race? Zane Smith went on the side and then over. That was wild. I had no idea. I had no idea that someone got turned over, but yeah,

it looked like John Hunter tried to go to the middle there, got up the racetrack in the Zane. It's just one of those weird bank angle type of things. Probably the right front tire catches the bottom of that safer barrier just enough to ramp up and just ride. Like, who was that 38 car? Well, I think Martin Truex had that happen at Richmond once.

And then maybe it was Casey Kane in the old 38 car, Braun car way back in the day. The landing when he finally came, that had to hurt. Yeah, these things are just so stiff and rigid. And the tires was flat. Yeah, so he's probably on the underbody at that point. So he's fine, right? He got out and spoke, but he's probably sore this morning.

Yeah. I mean, he had a good run going. Another race where Zane was running in the top 10, top 15, for the majority of the day. so that's unfortunate another guy who had a great day SVG first top 10

on an oval is that correct that doesn't feel right is that right it feels close to right I thought it like the Coke 600 maybe it was this first top 15 was the first cup series

top 10 on an oval for SVG yeah listen I don't know the circumstances of it I don't know was he running in the top 10 the whole race or was it like the whole restart chaos that well I know either way the accomplishment is the accomplishment I don't think we should nitpick that you got to start somewhere and clearly he's uh you know starting to step up his game on the ovals which realistically for him or Justin's long-term goal for his for his team you know you're going to need SVG to not just win on the road courses,

especially if, you know, well, not if, but when they change the playoff format, you're going to have to, you're definitely going to have to put the whole package together. Bozzy said that SVG was ahead of both of the crashes that happened late in the race. Yeah, and I'm going to pick a random quote tweet here and use this as my data.

SVG probably ran his best Oval ever yesterday started last and had a lap one drive-through. penalty. No crew. That's right. Drove up to the top 10 on pace and stay there all day. Yeah. He's improvement.

Come to find out, he's actually pretty good. You know what I mean? He's a really good driver. Drivers, great drivers, find a way to adapt to their machine. And SVG is one of those drivers that, no matter what you put him in, he's going to succeed and he's going to learn it.

So, yeah, things are trending up for him. Any other takeaways you have? from the race itself? I thought it was a really good performance for the 22. I think if we were to ask after practice, I would have said, man, 22 is probably one of the worst cars on the racetrack. Him and the 12 had tire issues in practice, but they all methodically made their way up towards the front.

Blaney was primed to have a good finish probably if he didn't have that speeding on pit road penalty late in the race. but every time I looked up kind of at the end of stages I'm just always looking like before stage one Paul Wolf

they took two tires when you guys did too and that's how they got up there so the stop that we were the only that took two he also took two also they took two awesome that's how Paul Wolf got him up there to end stage one was they made that decision to take two and he fell back a little bit but it got him

a lot of spots yeah it seems like Paul Wolf's general strategy is if it's a 60-40 call, he's going to take the 40 in the sense of like he believes that track position will mean more than that extra 20% or whatever the difference is. He's aggressive.

And you hope your driver can do the work. And that's where he knows he's going to play into Joey's strength, right? And that is protecting track position. I don't know where Joey made it up to, up into that point. The last I saw on updates was that like early, you know, mid-20, 20s-ish to lower 20s, and then when he took the two tires that obviously gained them probably 12, 15 spots, and then he was able to maintain from there, I thought we were dead. When we took two and four tires is beside me, behind me, I thought, but my car was fast.

Jordan Bianchi referenced that one of the biggest takeaways in the playoff standings was that since because Bubba did not win or if Bubba had one you probably would have buried Joey Lagano in the playoff standings and now he's obviously very much still alive at plus 13 to the cut. Does that do you care about that at all? It concern you that you're leaving these forwards alive that they could get into Phoenix and then do what they do?

Not. It's not a motivating. factor for me one way or another. We've typically seen to win a championship, you've got to win the race or be first or second. So you're going to have to beat everyone anyway. You know what I mean? Unless it's not a Ford in it, then you don't have to beat any Ford. Right at Penske.

Yeah, you got a point. But no, there's, I mean, I'm sitting here trying to tell you my thought process and a split second decision into turn three. Certainly I'm not thinking. thinking about, well, what's the implications of this? And what happens if I do that, how will it, will this person be in or that person?

No. Not till post-mortem after the race. Do you kind of look at all those scenarios and see where you're at and try to figure it out? Do you look at those scenarios going into the race and then just like forget them in the car or you don't even bother with that? Yeah, I mean, more from, I can only speak from my standpoint. I think about it during the week, but at the racetrack, you're not going to be able to control what others do.

So you just have to try to get the best finish for yourself as possible. Let the cards fall where they may. We head to the Roval next weekend, Saturday practice 2 p.m. on True TV, and then Sunday Greenflag 3 p.m. on the USA Network. Yep. We got the Roval. Plus 48.

I guess I'll feel good about it. What? Plus 48? I know. I feel good about it. I mean, you could have a win from one of the bottom guys, and then it's 13 points closer to me. That's 35 that Joey would have to get over me. It's probably hard.

The Roval, you know, when you're kind of looking at, for the fans out there, looking at kind of where their driver is specifically this week, the roval is a very tough track to score stage points and finish well just simply because of the track position that you typically have to give up in that process so it's really hard I'd be interested to see this stat and I'm sure one of the stat nerds out there can figure it out but it feels like the top point getters at the roble feels less than like the top point getters certainly out of like a Kansas or something like that

anywhere that you have to flip stages it's difficult to have a 50 point day it's really really really hard unless you're SVG where you're so fast that you can pit and still win stages that's the thing is I think it's more likely that a non-playoff driver wins than someone below like

SVG or almonding or something like that's going to win I don't think so I don't think any of us know obviously SVG will be a favorite Almonddinger's record here is very very good as well but you just never know I don't think any of us really kind of know all I know is plus 48 and I feel pretty good about that I do yeah for what it's worth last year Kyle Larson won this race scored 48 points Chase Selly also scored 48 points finishing fifth and Lugano scored 47 finishing eighth everyone else

was below. Legano must have had a monster stage day then. Finished eighth and got 46? 47. Wow. So what's the math on that? Probably a top five in each stage and then... Oh, way better than that. That's top

three in each stage. How many points do you get for finishing eighth in a race? I know. I should know. Let's just say 30. So yeah. Top two in... That's pretty damn good. Maybe a stage win. Could get interesting. I mean, I think Chastain is really good on road courses.

Bubba is really good on road courses. Redick, obviously. He's not been quite as good over the last few. Cindric obviously has to win. So it seems like there are high 40-point days out there. There are. Not many. Not many.

So if you're Chastain, you obviously don't have to win. If you're Bubba and Redick, do you, do you, do you? have to win. You'll know after the first stage. But that's, it's two, you've already made your bed by that point, right? Because you're either staying out for the nine stage points. Okay, so then, then you have to make that decision after you qualify. And then right before the end of the stage, you'll see who's pitting in front of you and who's not. And then you'll make your decision from there. So, so, you'll either know right away, do we, A, do we, you got to know, do we have a winning car first. Can we win. If you can't, you got a lot, if you feel like you can't or you feel like your chances are very

low, then you try to get all the stage points you can. And then you hope for absolute utter chaos at the end to then make your way through the wreck, get you a great finish and have yourself a 48 point day. And then you give yourself a chance. Then a legano, if he has a 20 point day, you're, you're there. You're there. Yeah. Which a 20 point day is still like, I mean, that's like 16th, 17th with no stage points. Like it's, it's not like you got to run 30. You know, he'd have to run 30th. Or you hope a-Cohno still has to run really well.

You finished 14th there last year, scored 24 stage points. So it feels like just on average. Total, yeah, I'm sorry, total points. It feels like just on average at the Roval that whether your name is Lugano, whoever, you're going to probably score about 20 points. Because you could be, you could be Ryan Priestier who finished 25th, he scored 12,

or you who finished 14th and scored 24. Like, you're going to be in that ballpark of 20-ish points. So Bubba would need to have a Kyle Larson, Chase Elliott 48 point day to have any chance of that. And pray that maybe a car doesn't make weight. Or Lagano has a bad day. That's what happened with Legato has a bad day.

Yeah. And we've seen it every single roval. Somebody above the cut has a worse than 30th place finish. And it lets others back into the game. So I don't know. It'll be close. I got a review here from finished by Patrick and Jared, just go watch office space. I was asked that twice this week. Will you please go do it? The stupid. Yeah, sure. Download on your phone. Trev how'd you feel about the Washington game sorry we'll wrap it up with that overall fine I think it was a weird game because of a turnover in possessions I mean I said only had six possessions I think they just need to take the handcuffs off Julian Sain and let him go like he's he doesn't miss his passes and the defense is pretty damn good so it wasn't I was like

you know score touched on here and we're fine going to game like I wasn't nervous Also off track, I did throw out the first pitch at the Guardians game. That's right. We can't forget about this. Not that it was like super. Yeah, it wasn't a big thing. But it wasn't bad where people remember it. No.

It was fine. But I debated it. I said like if I throw this thing over the net, I could make SportsCenter. It'd be the most NASCAR coverage ever on ESPN this year. But I chose to just try to try to throw a hard strike. I threw it hard.

It wasn't a strike. I didn't bounce it in. I threw it low. It was in the dirt, but it was not... It wasn't a doink into the... Yeah, right-handed batter may have chased. You might have got one swinging.

Let's just say that. The Guardian's edit on my throw was top tier. Thank you to the Guardians for that. Appreciate the... I hadn't been to a professional baseball. game in some time. I don't think since I went to the, I think 2311 had a team function

at the Cubs game a few years ago with Kurt Busch. Uh-huh. And that was, I was more mingling than anything. I really didn't get to see much of that game. But the experience was fantastic. Thanks to the Guardians for that. State for the whole game. I was, I was entertained.

I thought you were going to bring him a win. Couldn't do that, though. I love. they played Sloopy. Oh, yeah. So is that an all Ohio thing? They just know that, you know, play to the crowd. So let me ask you a question.

At, like, the college, Miami, Ohio. No, they're not playing it. They're not. No, no, no. Okay. Any other college? No. So why would the, what makes the Guardian do it?

They know that most, pretty much all the fans are Ohio State fans. most likely. Let's play the crowd. I don't know if I buy that. But I'll tell you this. I got Minia. Oh, H. We got to work on the... What's wrong with...

Come on. Why you got a nitpick... Because it's a little rigid. Your OHIO is a little rigid. That's all. I'm new to the team. Listen, we won a national championship. Are you guys going to go to a game this year? I hear you got some sponsors.

I am to send you to a... Even if it's a shitty game trap, we got to go up there. Scarlet Room before. I want to go back. I want to go to the Scarlet Room real bad. Again, the drinks taste better in there. The town was a ball. Columbus is underrated. We got to go back to Mandrake, of course.

Yeah. We got to redeem ourselves. I don't think we've seen Julian say in there. All right. Well, this episode is longer than, usual. Yeah. Before we wrap up

this shirt, just to give them a shout it came from Go Fast Troy. So thank you Go Fast Troy for the shirt. Yeah. Appreciate it

and we'll see you guys next week.