Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - I'm Back...And Look Who's With Me

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Denny and Jared are joined by Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi to discuss what's happened in the off-season and preview the upcoming NASCAR Season. Netflix's NASCAR documentary dropped (4:18). Did 24 Hours of Daytona not go the full 24 hours (12:35)? Teams still waiting on a charter agreement (17:40). Is NASCAR growing or getting smaller (24:00)? Are NASCAR fans spoiled like Joey Logano said (31:00)? Time to make a change to The Clash in LA (41:30). Just how many drivers have a legit shot at winning a championship (49:00)? Jeff isn't picking Denny to win it all this year (55:45). Toyota has a new nose for the Camry this year and NASCAR testing a new all electric car (1:00:00). Impact of having a new lead engineer (1:06:40). And #DearDenny and a bonus question for Jordan Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Who's your favorites? I mean, if you had a set of Final Four right now, who you got? I'm not picking you to win the championship anymore because that's just... It just doesn't work. No, I mean, I could pick you to win the regular season championship, but like to say, oh, yeah, you're going to make the Final Four, there's going to be, at some point it feels like a piano falling out of the sky that has nothing to do with you, lands on your car, and then my pick is ruined.

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to Actions Detrimental, 2024, first edition. We have Jared. I can't even call you five purple vest 560 anymore. TBD on that, right? TBD till Saturday at the clash.

And we have a special, we have teammates now. So if y'all thought I got preferential treatment from the media before, you don't even know. Because now we brought on Jeff Gluck, Jordan Bianchi here to the Dirty Mo team. Welcome. Thank you. Welcome.

It's officially your first Dirty Moe podcast? No, you've been on DBC. I've been on DBC. I've been on Daly. Jeff's a veteran, so he's not normal. We're actually going to be harder on you, Denny, now to prove to people that we're. Yeah, actually, that's true. That's good.

You're just trying to prove a point. Yeah. Send a message. That's right. I get it. And we do expect any news or anything you have going on, you know, I mean, keep your teammates in mind. We can share. here in the actions detrimental group here we share notes that way we know what we need to talk about

and you know fortunately for us at actions detrimental you guys were a great asset to us anyway because we had to use you guys or I had to use you guys a lot to find out what are they talking about what do I need to look into right and so we've got all aspects covered for you NASCAR fans going forward. You've got the media. They're going to have their takes right off the hot take on Sunday night, right? Mostly Sunday nights, right? Pretty much every time. We always record right after the race. About two hours. It's up Sunday night, first thing Sunday morning or Monday morning. Yep. And then our goal is to continue to shoot actions detrimental early Monday morning or Sunday night if we can for a early we're going to try to do a lunch release when possible. Other times it'll be out, you know, probably

early or late in the afternoon on Monday. Then you're going to have the DBC, right? You got the Dale Jr. download. You've got Dirty Moe dough. Dirty Moe media has got you covered pretty much. See, now here's the thing, though, with these guys coming over to Dirty Moe is now it's on Travis to get their podcasts up quick so we can listen to it.

Because before, I don't know, I feel like the turnaround was pretty quick, but now we got to wait on Travis to... Doesn't that fall on Jeff? It's on me, actually. I'm the editor still. Oh, okay. So no issues there then. Yeah.

Well, welcome to the family. I really was looking forward to this. You're probably only the, probably third or fourth guest we've had on Action's Detrimental. But you guys are great guests because you're full of knowledge. He is. I'm not. I just write his coat tail, so it's good.

Is that true? This guy, he's like the most frustrating person. Like, he's just always like, oh, no, it's all you. You're doing everything. blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's, like, dropping the Bianchi bombs all the time, which I don't have gluck bombs. I know. So, like, you know, it's just this Minnesota nice humility that I don't really buy.

But it's fine. It's fine. It's horrible. I have a teammate that puts you first. And I always says, hey, you know what? You go ahead. Yeah. It's awful.

Everyone needs a good teammate for sure. Well, I mean, you know, we can preview the clash. We can talk about all season news. obviously we're taping here on Tuesday afternoon. The Netflix full speed just dropped early this morning. First, I mean, I guess I probably should step aside in this part of things. But I mean, what's your take, Jeff, Jordan? I have not seen it. He has.

Oh, okay. I don't know how to say this, that sounds like a dick, but I kind of went in kind of skeptical about it because I feel like there's been shows like the USA show, right? Like there's all this build up for it and you're like, is this really going to be good? Like is this going to be the drive to survive

that NASCAR wants and needs? And then I just felt like, I don't know, it wasn't just the time slot either. Like it just felt sort of forced in a way like the conversations were being recapped of something later. Like it was, it just felt like it was trying so hard. This show, I think, might be the greatest NASCAR content

or up there, like definitely the greatest NASCAR docu series. I was thoroughly impressed. Like, I just thought the access that was given by the drivers, I mean,

you are in the motorhome with people in heartbreaking moments. Denny, I mean, you're a moment after Martinsville with your daughter. I mean, I'm not trying to spoil it for everybody,

but you guys will see when you watch it. It's like you are there. Like, Christopher Bell, you know, is eliminated from the championship race and he goes, goes into his motor home and his wife's crying and like the camera follows him in.

It's there's like nothing you don't see a moment at least where the drivers are like, no, not not right now. Like it's you feel like you're inside on it and I just feel like the it was the most authentic and real thing like reflection I've seen of NASCAR like the driver's on screen. I'm like yeah, that's who I feel like I know or like that's that's my dealings with them. Like that seems accurate. And then the way it's presented, like you heard all the stuff from F1 last year, like, oh, they, they sensationalize this too much. They, they over dramatize this. This I felt like, no, that was accurate. I mean, from what I could tell. So I agree with that. I, you know, my, the little I know of Ross, the little I know of William, the little bit I know of Joey. Like, I, I feel like everyone was portrayed as they are. I, I didn't see any extra. dramatization, I guess I could say, of someone's character that is not real.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, from my perspective, it was, it's tough to watch. I mean, in the sense of, you know, I know how this story ends and I know, you know, you know, how hard I want it. And my, to me, I'm not much of a cry. Okay. but I did when I watched my dad's interview because you just get a little bit more perspective of what it would mean to them. And so it was a different perspective for sure

that I certainly think that they did a really, really good job of. I'd be interested to know, I know Netflix really had the controls of this, but was it so? different and was it so good because they were learning on the fly. So they just says, well, this is what I find interesting. So we're just going to follow that versus, you know, if it's NASCAR productions doing it, you know, they kind of know that, hey, this is what we kind of want to

show or whatever. Right. The Netflix crew is the same type of people that this show is trying to attract, right? People have never experienced NASCAR before. A lot of those Netflix crew guys, I think, came to the racetrack for the first time. Yeah, and I know that they used the NASCAR production. It sounded bad when I said that. They use a lot of NASCAR production in this. So, you know, footage. Yes, but I think that Netflix had the control over,

we're going to show the storylines that we think is compelling, someone that doesn't know anything about the sport. So I think that maybe that's why, Jeff, you see it as, wow, this is a lot different than what you've seen before. I just think, too, like even in the interview aspect of it, like, maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like the interviews, even with like the talking head types are right before a race or right after a race kind of thing. It's not like, okay, let's sit down at the end of the 10 weeks and pretend like Darlington

just ended and give me your reaction to this. And they're like, oh, yeah, that was a huge moment when this happened. It's like it feels like this just happened or I don't know what's going to happen yet in the next race. This could be huge and by weaving that all together with the footage they were able to capture, it's just it just perfectly lines up with each other and it makes you feel like you're really living in the moment. Yep. I was going to say, did you have reservations going in agreeing to do this? No.

Only because I knew what the potential for it was and I knew that I knew that they were going to ask for more access than, you know, others have been granted before. But I understand that they have a show to make, right? And sometimes when I watch shows, it's the access that, man, I've never seen that before. That's what I find compelling. So my rule of done for them was the answer is always yes. Whatever you want, unless I tell you no.

And I just never had an instance where I felt uncomfortable and told them no. So, you know, I said, you know, short of me, you know, being naked and not having my suit on, like, I don't really care. You know, come, if you want to follow me all the way to the bus, that go right ahead. The door's going to, I'm going to keep it open behind me. So I just allowed them to have the access, which is probably why, you know, the screen time was probably more. And, you know, I heard and I watched it as well. and the producers had decisions to make, right? Early in, they were trying to figure out

who's going to win the championship with 10 weeks to go. So that's why, and I noticed that Darlington, right, they were following Joey, they were following these guys. But as they fell off, then you had the Christopher Bells come into the story and was like, we didn't plan for that because, you know, you could argue, well, he's been to the final four now for a couple years, but at the time, he had just made it last.

year for the first time. So they were trying to catch up at the very end to, oh, here's going to be the final four, but they followed, I noticed that they followed guys and in the beginning episodes were followed by people that permanently make the top eight, 90% of the time, right? Because they know that that's not going to go wasted footage. That's a good point. I didn't ever think about that, is that they had to pick guys. So again, this footage isn't necessarily wasted. I think that's the key to this. Did you feel that now that you've watched it back, going back to Jeff's question earlier,

did you feel that you were portrayed accurately? Like the way you view yourself, is that kind of how you feel like you were portrayed? I do. And it's interesting. I know people are going to think, man, you got a lot of screen time. They didn't show a lot.

There was a lot of footage that is left on the cutting room floor that I thought would make it. That did not. So is there anything, that you're glad that did not make it. No, not really, but just like some interaction with some friends, things like that. Like, surprised that didn't make it, but it's, it's probably for the best. But, but, you know, they, they were part of this ride for the whole 10 weeks, well, really nine weeks for me. I think that's what it was most, I have not seen it either yet, but I think that's what was

most surprising to me upon the announcement is that being around you for the last however many weeks, I know how much Netflix shot of you and the fact that this is only a five episode series I'm wondering like how could they possibly fit all of that in like they got to make room for eight other drivers right right so it was a tough balance for sure

well Jordan you're gonna have to catch up you know it's been a little busy yeah I figure you have you just came back from Daytona right the Rolex you know you were saying how the atmosphere was just It's crazy. I mean, they had the record crowd down there. Kudos to them.

And there's people everywhere. And the thing that blew me away was everybody gets garage access. And I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. But I do know if you're trying to sell a sport to people, giving them up close opportunities to get close to everything. Whether you're not pre-race on the grid or garage access, you know, anytime you want is a great way to do it. And I think you have value for your ticket. There's a lot to do. It's also a race two where you can come, watch.

for a little bit leave come back you know that kind of thing um it is interesting to see what it's like and you know I'm not a car person per se it's not my interest but and we hear a lot about how we're not a car culture anymore but you go there and cars matter like you've got the corvette displays over here and all the car corvette people are hanging out and the lexas folks and it's just it's it's it's different it's very different than what you see a lot of places yeah same thing for me when I went to f1 and that was my and in Vegas it was my first F1 experience and I don't consider myself a car guy. I'm certainly not going out there and changing my own oil right now.

No, I used to, but not now. Right. But I also found it fascinating that like, wow, look at all this technology that I would think you guys would be scared to show. It's just out there laying in the middle of the paddock. Like, you're not afraid of your wing just sitting right there. Like, no, not, you know, we, there's cameras everywhere and our competitors have pictures of our stuff before we even unload. Like, they know it's going to get taken and there's nothing you're going to see there with the blind eye that they are not analyzing with cameras and stuff anyway.

So, but I was geeked out about, you know, the car stuff. Like, it was about the cars, you know, when I was there. And so, yeah, I think that that's one thing that maybe we miss out on a little bit, but we don't. don't have as much, I would, we probably don't have as much technology. I would say, no, not close. Yeah, it's not. It's a little, it's hard to compare because it's their biggest race. It comes in January where there's an off season. It's kind of the kickoff, if you will. So there's this natural excitement and everybody wants to be there thing. Now, you know, is it, you know, you go to like a New Hampshire, NASCAR race is that, you know, of course it's going to be different compared to the

Rolex, but I think you compare the Daytona 500 or you compare another, you know, Coca-Cola 600 to this. It, there is some comparability there. Yeah, for sure. Can you explain, Jordan, what I've been seeing all over Twitter about the finish of this race? Yeah, so basically, someone had an itchy trigger finger in the scoring tower, and there was just under three minutes to go in the race, and because it's a 24-R race, it's a time thing.

And if it gets to a certain point where there's less time than a lap, they're going to call the race. They could have gotten basically two more laps, at least one more lap in, if not two more laps in. and instead of waving the checker white flag and then the checkered flag they wave yeah on TV they were telling us the whole time there's two to go right and so they're coming off

NASCAR Toron 4 and I'm thinking it's listen it didn't affect all the all the finishes were spread the first and second would spread quite a bit but you would think like on the trigger finger if it's close you're saying there's like it's like two or three minutes like you got to err on if anything it's too long not too short.

Yeah. And I don't want to, I got to be very careful I say this because this is all second, third hand. There might have been some miscommunication between the tower and the flood.

You're on dirty mo. You don't have to be scared anymore. I don't want to throw people. I don't want to say anything incorrect because I don't want to get me in trouble. But there could have been some miscommunication, right? Of like what the tower wanted

versus what actually happened. And so could that have been the thing? And at the end of the day, the flags rule everything. And if the flag waves, that's the ruling. So with some off season big,

news over the last month or month coming up that y'all see in the forefront what are you looking for jeff you want to go i i think it's been the quietest off season first of all um maybe ever that i can remember i just feel like i i kept waiting for storylines or things to pop up or buzz or something and it just i was so surprised how it just sort of fell off like where was naskar like And I don't know if it was that the F1 Vegas thing came so quick after NASCAR. And then people were like talking about F1 Vegas and then people forgot to bring NASCAR up again or something. But I feel like, and maybe it's that silly season was just so much settled this year that none of it bled over into the off seasons. There wasn't a lot of questions that, oh, we're waiting on this.

I mean, you kind of were like waiting on Noah Gregson, but everybody knew that was going to happen. Right. So I don't know. It was just like a really weird, like I've been very anxious. to get back to the track to have actual storylines to talk about again because I'm like,

what are we supposed to be talking about? I don't know if it almost felt too from like a marketing standpoint. Like are they waiting for full speed to come out and then they can really push that and try to get new fans that way and ramp it up? But it's just like January for me has felt so long just waiting for something to talk about NASCAR

because I feel like we're still talking about last year and we don't have like a ton of like oh this is going to be I mean yeah Toyota Ford new cars but we don't really know because there's no testing preseason anymore

so I don't know it's been kind of a mystery to me I agree with that to some extent though most of the big silly season moves are always decided well before the season ends like we already know by Phoenix who's the big names

or who are going to be where or have a really good idea so that to me wasn't thinking to me it feels like it's almost being kicked down the road a little bit the can because a lot of the stuff is bubbling we had the TV deal

which was announced which was a big thing But let's be honest, the charter thing is the next big thing in this sport. And that's the thing that feels like it's bubbling a little bit. There's nothing to talk about right now, at least publicly. No one wants to talk about it publicly. But I'll tell you what, in the next month or maybe even less, that's going to be the issue. So I feel like a lot of the things that are being discussed right now, whether it's the charter stuff, I would say the schedule for 2025, you know, Mexico, Montreal, what happens with the clash. These are all the conversations that are starting to happen if they already haven't started to happen.

and so we're not really hearing about that yet, or at least not to the degree we're ready to report on it. I think these things are happening, but I think a lot of this stuff is going to come up, you know, a month, two, three months down the road. Yeah. We,

the team owners did have a meeting with NASCAR this morning and one of the things you talk about schedule, one thing Ben Kennedy wanted to make, you know, apparent, you know, over the last couple of years with all the big changes that we had, it was pushed so late into the year, September, October.

You know, it sounds like they're hoping that it's going, this is going to be a summer. release thing. I know you've heard this before. They see this every year. I know, I know. And I don't mean, I'm not trying to disparage them because it is hard.

I mean, there's so many moving parts. But it's, they wanted to have it out last summer. They wanted to have it in August. And then it just, you know, and it's not their fault necessarily. Yeah. And I think a lot of that probably was around one track, right? Are you going to get the deal done with Montreal? Right.

With the track or not. And so that kind of held up a lot of things. But it sounds like ducks are in a row a little bit more this year than in the past for sure. how do we feel about the new TV deal though we haven't spoken about that and you haven't tweeted anything about it yeah i mean you know i want to i'll go back a little bit this kind of falls in line with what these guys are talking about with the kind of the lull in the off season i think a lot of this is because our season is so long everyone just wants to take a breath you know just it's so long and grueling that i mean even the race teams are just i mean they are checked out

for a month and a half. So, you know, it's just, it's just a, it's, it's hard because we don't have summer break. You know, we don't have the summer break like F1 has or, or what have you. We go for, what is that, 39, 40 weeks or something like that. And it's, and it's hard. And when it's finally over, everyone's just like, you finally hit the couch at the end of a long day. And you're just like, they'll talk to me. I don't want to be on social meeting.

I just want to take a break. from it all and that's probably why it's tough to you know get some different stories now in the contrast what not a lot of moving parts either i think that there's probably less turnover on teams that there's ever been before i mean it used to be this crew chiefs going to it new organization or whatever short of the the uh colleague and trackhouse swap is there any other crew chiefs leave in one organization going to another. Not that I know of. I'd have to go look, not at the top of my head.

Right. But that has been a thing that is triggered in the past. Now, the only thing that is big in our sport that has a big performance is pit crew guys. Now, they do move around, but we don't hear about them as much. But it is a, it's certainly a big, it will be a big topic in the summer

when talking about who lost on pit road or who won on pit road. So, you know, This is part of our sport. The one thing that's really unique about NASCAR, and I think it's to its detriment, is you look at the NFL, you look at the NBA.

They have done a really good job in their offseason of having events, right? The NFL has got the draft, and then it's got free agency, and the combine, and then Camp Stark. And it's like once a month,

they have one thing they can circle to. Now the NASCAR off season's only two months long or about, and the free agency in NASCAR is so weird because everything is decided mid-season for the next year. But it's like come mid-November, come December, there isn't anything to look forward to and anticipate. Yeah, well, superstars are changing teams.

Yeah. Tire or kill, he's leaving Kansas City. He's going to Miami, right? It's just your superstars, when the contract's up, they just, you know, we got another one, right? I'm staying where I'm at. I'm happy where I'm at. They're happy with me, and you just kind of, you keep going. It doesn't, there's not a big free agency period in NASCAR like it is in other sports.

But also, like Jordan said, because the NASCAR season is, so long that these things that happen in the NFL offseason are just packed into the NASCAR regular season, right? Like the charter deal seems like that's something that you would discuss in the off season. But because the NASCAR season is 10 months long, yeah, it's just a part of it. And you have free agency stuff. It's like, and I get why it is. You have sponsors. You've got businesses that have made decisions for their quarterly reports, you know, the following year. They've got to know six months in advance. But it would be great if a lot of the free agent signings of you know, Kyle Bush is going to Richard Childers Racing.

They're not making that announcement in September. They're making it in December. Then people are like, oh, and NASCAR's in the headlines again, that's a big story. Things like that. But again, you can't change it. It is what it is. Yeah. People like you were trying to get it out as quick as possible.

Yes. Absolutely. We used to also have, you know, more stuff media-wise to do in January. You know, there used to be almost, I think it was five days, right? Four or five days of a media tour. where everybody would come and go to every shop and then you'd hear from everybody and you know that's one of the things

that got cut as the sport started getting smaller and stuff but you know that was a piece something to talk about the sports getting smaller revenue is an all-time high for the sport for the sport it feels like it feels like the sports getting smaller

if you think about the weekend's getting smaller I guess the schedule is not getting smaller itself but this is what I struggle with there's no testing there's no practice It's expensive, Jeff. That's expensive for us. But I struggle with this because...

I know, but the revenue would say otherwise. It's bigger than it's ever been. I mean, it's an interesting thing. You feel like it's shrinking, yet it's bigger than it's ever been in a financial aspect. So how much can we cut the grass before there's no grass to be cut? I look at, I think practice is the great way to look at this. Like I agree, I think the old model of having three 50 minute practice sessions, two on Friday, one on Saturday, plus qualifying was probably too much, right?

And I understand why you wanted to trim that back. But to have, too often it feels like going into a weekend, it's like you don't even know there's a race sometimes. It feels like there's a race. It's like, boom, cars on the track for 20 minutes. They're practicing. they're qualifying, oh, we're racing in the next day. There's no anticipation. You talk about the Rolex, right?

And they had so many practice sessions. There's always different things going on in the racetrack. There's a little bit of buildup. I don't need, there's a happy medium. What it was before was too much. What it is now is too little. But something in the middle there is just right. And there needs to be, this is a big time sport.

And it is expensive. And I understand you have to keep budgets and everything like that, but you've got to be mindful of the fact that, you still have a product to do. Like NFL teams aren't cutting back and what they're offering fans in terms of on field action. We've reduced on track content.

Yeah. And I don't know. And that's not a good thing because that is what you're selling. Yes. And so if you're trying to sell a sport, you're now taking less inventory and trying to sell them.

How do you do that? I don't know the answer to that. It has to be financially viable for the teams to do it. I mean, that's just the bottom line or else you're going to have one or two teams drop out of business every single year. If we had to do full practice the Friday, the Saturday, the Sunday, let's just rewind the

schedule pre-COVID, you know, 2019. There's no way 2311 would be able to sustain. And that's too much. There's absolutely no way because of, you know, what we budget for sponsorship revenue versus what we get from NASCAR, it just doesn't, it will not make sense. So what NASCAR is done and says, okay, okay, y'all can't afford. it, we're not, you know, we're going to just help you guys save money. All while revenue has continued to go up.

So that's, you know, that probably will be the sticking point, I think, in the future and probably part of y'all's storylines, but, you know, we got to let it play out. You know, we certainly, you know, I can't speak for the TNC. They're the ones who have been in the in-depth negotiations and, you know, sitting in rooms with NASCAR for hours on in, right? You know, but I, here we are in the 11th hour again, right? And, you know, we tried to start these conversations two years ago and just, it's been just delayed, delay, delay.

And then now here we are. We're at the end of the rope. So it's, it's just an interesting and it's a tough spot to be in. And NASCAR just signed this new TV deal, which, you know, we, it sounds great. I, you know, until we know everything about it, we don't really know, you know, how it all flows and everything. So I think, you know, it, there's certainly some work to be done, right? Do I believe we are closer to a deal now than 12 months ago? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think so. But, but then again, it just takes time, right? It just takes meetings, right? You got to get in the room like they're doing to try to, you know, iron out a deal. But it's going to, you're going to have to have, people willing to that make the ultimate decision be in the room to say yes or no right but right now it's just you know

you're delivering the mail to the mailman he's giving it to the other owner and he'll make some notes and send it back to the mailman then we get it's just we we got to we got to iron it out for sure because we I think the sport's going to have some great momentum you know from this Netflix documentary I think the Daytona 500 is always a big one that will always have great pub to it, and you want to have positive, you know, pub for your sport, right?

So I think that the tone can be set early on in the year, you know, if we can get this thing done to then have a positive start to this season. So are you worried? About what? About it not, you know, it's dragging on longer than you wanted. It's like, you know, you said it's the 11th hour, like should fans be worried about this? Is it just going to sort itself out? I think, you know, it usually always sorts itself out in the end, right?

It has historically. So I would see no reason why it wouldn't now. But, you know, it's just been a very, very slow moving turtle to this point. And certainly we did not want to wait until this late, right? And we've already had to extend once. And so I think that, you know, we try. to have this conversations early, but they didn't know what the media landscape was going to be. Now they figure that out. I think they're in a much better position to certainly transfer that

information into what would be a fair equitable deal for both sides. So you sound pretty confident then. I mean, I hope so. I mean, I... It's going to get done. It's a lot of... It's positive vibes only here. Yeah. We're not going to mean negative Nancy. Denny Downer. it's positive.

All right. So let's move on from that. You know, let's just keep it positive because I think, you know, in the end, both sides will come to... It's in everybody's best interest. You bet you. You bet you on that, for sure.

What else have we got here on the list there, Jared? I mean, we've got a race coming up. Yeah, we've got the first race of the season this weekend. The clash in L.A. How do we... Hey, you know what? I want to go back. one thing. Sorry.

You were talking about the grid access, and this brings me to what was, it got a little blip on the media radar there for a little while, and people were talking about on social media. Joey's comments about our fans being, you know, a little too spoiled. I think it was taken a little bit out of context. It's certainly not what he meant.

He just meant that, hey, you know, our fans have a ton of access. Compared to other sports, absolutely. Compared to other sports, we have a ton of acts. right? And so where do you guys stand on that? Because it is such a hard topic because I think about it as well and it's like are we over are we too accessible or in oversaturated or do we need to go the other way and be more. Where do you guys stand on that opinion? So I kind of see it two ways. I don't know that everybody needs to be in the garage and on pit road in people's workplaces,

right like this is essentially people are preparing for a race they're getting their pit boxes set up you know everything you know i don't know that that needs to be like where everybody is is allowed to gather um i i think that's fine if that's still sort of like a VIP area but i could also see the appeal of like hey can we get the drivers outside the track more you know they used to be and they they still do a good job you know trying to do like the the NASCAR race day experience and stage and stuff, but it feels like still, you know, the fan zones aren't white as robust as they used to be when you'd have drivers going to haulers all the time. I mean, I think there used to be a time when if you were a fan and you went to a race weekend, you're like, if I really

want to meet my driver, I know he's doing this appearance at this store, he's going to be in the fan zone here. He's going to be at his hauler here if I buy his merch or whatever. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but like, is it obvious as a fan now? Like, if I'm a fan now, like, if I'm a I want to meet X driver, I'm going to have that chance. And maybe that's not, maybe that is entitlement, but it doesn't seem like that's the case. I don't know they need to be right in the middle of everything, though, if that makes sense. Yeah, but Jeff, what I'm saying, I don't think the drivers are saying no. It's, it's the reason, you know, when I used to chase my favorite drivers when I was younger,

when they came to Richmond, my mom had a list of Davey Allison's going to be here, Alan Quickie who's going to be here. Bill Elliott's going to be here. Dale Earnhardt's going to be here. And she had a list of an entire itinerary. And I mean, I'm telling you these lines were three hours long at minimum. I mean, it just took forever. The fandom was amazing back then. But we would schedule out the entire day of we're going to be able to hit four drivers today, right?

But a lot of that was circled around. They weren't just sitting in a parking lot, signing autographs. They were at, you know, for David. they were at the gas station, right? And, you know, Dale Earnhardt was at a dealership. So it's just, it's the activation within the sponsor, right? And do they, how do they activate the sponsorship that they actually have? That's probably why you see less of, you know, driver appearances because it, the sponsorships are pieced together.

Well, that was going to ask you that. So, I mean, it's NASCAR the way it is now. You have, I don't know how many different sponsors on a lot, primary sponsors, right? Is that part of it? When before, like, you had almost one sponsor for the entire year. So like, and honestly, multiple years. And they could get behind you and they knew this was our guy and we're going to push them hard. Now it's like, a lot of these deals are thrown together sometimes midseason.

Yeah, they just, the sponsors, the new ones that come in, they just dip their toe in it, right? Like to see, is this going to work for us or not? it's, you know, one's probably successful is like Mavis on our car, right? They dipped their toe in last year and then this year you're going to see a national commercial played probably a lot, right? And they increased their races.

And so it certainly, that's the kind of activation that we see. We see if NASCAR went to a commercial, I would say you'd see no less than three drivers in that course of that two and a half minutes versus, you know, in different commercials, but that costs money, right? And the sponsorship has the budget not only to be on the car activated at the racetrack, but then activate outside the racetrack as well. And that there's just, there's only so many sports dollars and there's so many options

to spread that around now. So that, again, just goes back to the money issue, right? If it's a bit more affordable for sponsors, then you have one sponsor that's probably on the car for a handful of more races. Yes. And then they can create. these, you know, strategies and marketing around a particular driver. Yeah, it is.

But it's, you know, sponsorship is such a large percentage of our revenue. So if, you know, if you lose one substantial sponsor, that team is looking to cut all it can. And what you've seen over the last 15 years is a lot of cutting, right? So, and it's, and it's, you go out of business or you cut. You pick one or the other. but there hasn't been an offset in the NASCAR revenue to help with that. And so that's kind of why you've seen, while it feels one way, but is actually another. Okay. So from my view, it feels like, well, you said it's not true, but it feels like,

oh, the drivers don't want to do as much as they used to or whatever, right? Because I asked Harvick about this last year in his retirement press conference saying, I was like, are you busier now than you used to be? Or like, you know, because you have, it's different obligations, right? And he said, you know, back then when you guys had to really go all over the country and testing and all, way more appearances and all that stuff, like you were flying a lot more, you were gone from home a lot more. Like he said, that was harder than it, it is now.

Yet, you know, now your time has been replaced probably by looking at data or going to the sim sessions or stuff like that maybe. But he said it's still not, you know, to the degree it was. but so then if there is some sort of willingness on the driver's part to do more and there might be some extra time, who is responsible for getting that back, like having the driver or asking the drivers to do more or telling the drivers there could be this opportunity is all on the activations or is there another way to bring some of that back? Well, I mean, it's no secret, right?

They're going to do this driver incentive program, right? It's like the PIP and golf. they're going to incentivize, you know, the drivers to go out and help promote the sport. It's going to be, it's essentially NASCAR's marketing, you know, strategy, right? They're going to pay the drivers who have good, big platforms and even guys that don't, you know, to go out there and, you know, they're going to create some sort of, I don't know, ranking system. And, you know, you'll get some sort of multiplier, depending on what your stature is in the sport. And they're going to pay guys.

And they're going, they're going to incentivize drivers to try to do more, right? And when they get a request to go to, you know, Illinois to, you know, go do a media block or something, you know, they're likely going to have more drivers say, I'll do it, right? Because they'll be rewarded financially for that. So you think that, you think that the drivers will respond? That's not news to you. No, no, I've heard it. I'm just, I'm curious. It's a good idea in theory.

I'm just curious if it's actually... I agree in theory. Yeah. I agree. You know, I don't know the particulars necessarily. I've heard about it, but I'm curious to see if it's enough incentive to... And I only... Listen, I only speak on it because I think a NASCAR executive actually said that we're going to do that, right?

So I don't think this is secretive. No, no. I mean, I think it's pretty common. Yeah. How do you feel about it? Because you're in a different situation than a lot of these drivers. You have stake in the sport through owning a team. right so you naturally want to see the sport grow and you know like that's all that's all good for you

but what about a driver who's may just be here to race on Sunday and then you know may not have plans to stick around the sport after they retire like well how much you know how much incentive would you need if you were that type of person well I you know I heard Kyle Larson's statements not too long ago right he said well half the dirt late model field makes more than half the upfield and or the top guys i guess in dirt lay mollies and he's not wrong no he's not wrong and that is that is out of whack they sell a lot of merchandise over there they do crazy numbers yeah i mean don't even get me going on merchandise that whole model you know got broken a lot of this just came from a lot of greed for a lot of long time right and there was some tracks there's some you know

NASCAR, everyone had a hand in how this thing all crashed at once and then it's slowly building itself back up. But yeah, that was, so he says that. And so what hopefully this program will do, right, is that, let's just say Michael McDowell, right, who probably doesn't make a huge salary. I think he'll say that publicly. He is incentivized to do more for the sport because he probably could make more as much in this new driver incentive deal.

So if he works hard, I mean, if he does enough, it will take him a lot to do. But I think certainly he, you know, a person like him would be more incentivized to go out there and do it. So as a team owner, I say, okay, I get it. And I agree with Jordan. In theory, it seems like a good idea.

But it's, you know, we also need the drivers as well. We sell assets to sponsorship that we're going to have the drivers, this X amount of appearances. And we just don't want that to be a conflict of, hey, our drivers raising his hand to go do this NASCAR thing to help them sell tickets instead of servicing our sponsor that needs you on that same day. So that's kind of the push-pull that you'll, you know, that could happen. Should we move on and talk about the clash this weekend? I know we kind of went down this or like we have a race this weekend and somehow got off track but we do have a race this weekend we do we do um it's so interesting with the clash because i i understand like i think

the first year at l.a was awesome i thought we all thought it was i feel a lot about l.a the first time is how i thought chicago was going to be as oh this is going to be a show like this track it's stupid But then watching it as I fell out, I think I had a mechanical problem the first year, then I was sat in the stands for the last half of the race. I'm like, it's pretty damn electric, right? And then the ratings back that up. But just over time, right, it just then it starts to get repetitive. And the second year, I mean, still there was a gain in the ratings,

which is a good thing over what probably the last clash was when it was at Daytona. but I don't know I just feel like generally speaking do you take one from the other so maybe the clash is better ratings wise but the clash used to be a Daytona

and the storylines that came out of the clash that the Super Speedway clash was that that guy they're going to be strong for the 500 right there were so many storylines that came out of the clash and I mean this just goes back into the

we're just the on track content it's not as much I mean we hit the track for the very first time we're qualifying for our biggest race there's no buzz

there's no lead up there's no anticipation there's nothing that is I'm sorry but that is just not a good strategy whatsoever I don't know how it has now passed

for two years in a row but it is what it is and even as a team owner I'm like well I mean even you just if I got to parade my car around the racetrack

the 23 and 45 for a couple laps just to get the fluids are good we got no leaks whatever you guys aren't drafting because we're not wrecking right we're not going to wreck these things you got it we got to have some sort of buzz leading up to right and so I'm wondering since there's no correlation

between the clash and the 500 does the 500 then suffer slightly because of the lack of buildup well so it's funny you should say this working on a story this week for the athletic that you can read. And the conversation I've had, though, is on the TV side, they like having the clash where it is because it's a great buildup for them. They hype it. It's in L.A. Yeah, great market. And then it can push the Daytona 500, where, you know, Daytona 500 qualifying or the duels aren't necessarily going to do that, but it gives

them some storylines from that and they can start to sell the sport that way. Yeah, but the clash was always just, we stay down there. Yeah. Right? The clash was the Sunday before the 500. Right. So it was a whole week. But now, yeah, you can have the clash. It's over with. But then you got the Super Bowl.

And I hate to say it, but you're just not. You've moved on from the clash and it has no relevance until we're going to go watch Day 2 and 500 qualify. So let me ask you this. If you, what would you do with the clash next year? Let's say, we were three years in LA. I think we can all agree. It's probably, I don't say run its course, but you've kind of got the juice out of that

lemon, right? And so where can you go get another lemon and start squeezing from? Where you're going to move that race to? What can you do with it? Because I don't know if moving into Daytona is going to do. I know. So what do you do with that? Because you're not going to get rid of it, by the way,

because that's built in the new TV contract for TV inventory. So you're going to have a race of that caliber. What do you do with it? I think also part of this question is what is the goal of the clash? Like what are you trying to get out of the clash? Let me just generally speak. an exciting exhibition race that builds up anticipation

for your biggest race of the year. That's just a very broad statement. I don't know how you achieve all that. Jeff, you got any ideas on this? Where should go? Well, I think part of the problem is this hit home to me the other day.

I'm a Broncos fan and it was like 26 year anniversary of the Broncos winning that Super Bowl against the Packers or whatever, right? And I'm like, what do you mean? It's the anniversary. We're in late January. And I was like, oh, yeah.

you know before the NFL season was as long as it is now it was done in late January you didn't have this problem of the Super Bowl almost being on President's Day weekend so I think that's made it really complicated right because now you can't have Daytona 500 qualifying on Super Bowl Sunday which is the weekend before so that's why they've had to sort of move that

and then it's like well we can't have the clash Saturday night before the Super Bowl maybe so let's move that and I have a week so that really the NFL really makes it very challenging in that aspect. Because I don't, you know, it's not like you, you're not going to move the Daytona 500 date. So if you want to have that as your firm date, I don't really know what you do there. But I do think that the Clash Stadium concept is shown that that you can create buzz

at that time of the year. You can sort of remind people that NASCAR is starting. The L.A. thing, I think, you know, the Coliseum, it feels like it's worn off a little bit. I mean, I haven't gotten down there yet this week, but just doesn't. feel like it's that same buzz that you guys were talking about. But that's probably year three of any event. So, you know, if you can take it to another stadium, you can find something. I mean, I think people would watch it.

And I think there's something to be said for it. I just don't know what the right thing to hit on is because it's not like the racing's amazing there. It's just sort of more of a spectacle of like, oh, yeah, NASCAR back. Here's like this little, you know, this little track. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, I left 2311 shop late last night.

They were finishing up one of the cars. And actually the crew guys were like, we like the warm-up. It does get our bearings back under us. We don't have to bring the pit box and all that stuff, all the stuff that goes with it. But yet it's just enough for us to get into a rhythm, right? And so there's value for the teams in that aspect. Now, there's zero value as far as like, you know, from an economical sense for us, right?

I mean, we likely will, you know, knock a front end off and all this. It's just a bad economic proposition for us. And but, you know, we were sold on it that, hey, this is a investment to, you know, get, you know, get some energy going and the ratings back that up, at least for the first, you know, couple years. So hopefully that that does continue because I think we're in for a great season. I certainly think that the competition field is wide open. And you just, you just don't know. I mean, last year, no one saw Blaney come. Netflix didn't see Blaney come until episode three or four. I can tell you that. So, I mean, it was, it just, you just never know nowadays. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, It is what it is.

I asked Jeff this on our podcast. I said this today on our podcast with Jeff. I said, I think you can make a reasonable case for about a dozen drivers to win the championship. Because of the format, because of the uncertainties, because of what their pedigree are, is that a fair number in your mind off the top of your head? I get asked this question a lot. I've always said there's nine. I thought that there was nine drivers that were capable of winning a championship.

Now, since I said that nine, I think a few more have. emerged as contenders there's a difference in a contender and there's a difference in one that can go all the way right um blaney you know even before this year he was always on that list of nine that he can go all the way he's certainly with a good enough team and the resources he's definitely talented enough driver he's always been on the list right um i probably you know since then you know, you probably add chastain, you know, from the historical list. Now, we lost Harvick, so that one drops. So what about Busher?

Brad. I see that as a very popular pre-race out on a limb championship four. Busher makes a championship four. I think I need to see, did he get to the round of eight? Yeah. He did. Yep. He just wasn't spectacular.

They kind of lost a little bit of their steam a little bit. But he can win on a lot of different tracks. Yeah. Well, he did, right? He won three in a row, right? Yeah, three ovals in a row. There were some road courses. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can see that as a good dark horse. I mean, Busser, I've sang his praises for a very long time on his super speedway. I think he's one of the best. I, you're just quietly one of the best, right? I don't know the verse Brad. I think he probably has the upper hand, you know, who beats who on a weekly basis. Just barely, they're always together, but it's like he's just always just a spot or two, right? So sure, if you think Brad is a championship threat, how could you not consider Busher?

I mean, I'm talking myself right into it right now. Can I ask you one more name that we kind of debated a little bit? Yeah. What about Reddick? I think he is. Yeah. I think he is. I mean, certainly, when I look at last year,

there's a few guys that I think will absolutely take a jump from last year. Redick, you know, came up. He just, I think the short tracks is he knows he's got to improve on the short tracks. And that is a big part of getting to the championship four. And again, the struggles kind of went beyond just Martinsville, right? at Phoenix it was just yeah you know just not really not really there so I think he knows you know where he's got to work um you know so I think absolutely the guy can make to the final four certainly the talent is there pit crews will continue to get better I said this is going to be a long process

it is a long process building your own pit crews and all that stuff so he is he's in that as well I think if I had to write them down there's going to be 10. I won't, I'm not going to disclose you every name on that list because I made the list. You did? Let me see it. It's pretty easy. This is nine. Okay.

But I feel, but because somebody will be left out and the feelings will be hurt. Yeah, those for sure. Absolutely. Okay. Can I see the nine? Yeah. So I think, oh, I lost. My audio, that's my fault.

It's just, the problem is I can't hear myself. That's a first. But anyway, I think Lugano takes one of the biggest jumps. As far as contender, you know, if you just want to talk about who's going to gain the most in the point standings from last year to this year, Austin Dillon has got it. He has to. I mean, it was just bad. 10 DMFs.

That was, yeah, that's a big number. and on top of that, it just wasn't in the top five or ten that much. And so I think he needs to improve, you know, I don't know, 10, 12 positions. I mean, I don't know what would be considered, you know, what would be considered appropriate. I mean, how much, you know, can you really jump if he can win a race somehow? I mean, he has before, you know, he could make in the top 16. but I just think as far as like who's going to be the contenders week in, week out. I think Lugano just had an off year last year.

I found it just so very interesting and that we kind of wrote Penskeoff as they're just not fast enough. And they just didn't have, they weren't going to beat the Hendrick and the Gibbs cars on speed and all that. And that was so true until it wasn't, right? but there was only one of them, right? And that was what is so intriguing to me is that in a world where everything is the same and we know for a fact that the 22 and the 12, the equipment did not change between the two of them,

but only one car really stepped up those last six races. We talked about this a lot on our podcast, and you can hear now on Dirty Mo. You look at Penske, they haven't had a great organizational, dominant season probably since 2020. Like they've got, they've hit on it. Like Joey obviously hit it on it.

Ryan obviously hit on it. But when was the last time we talked about the Penske cars, week in, week out, are the cars to be? We talk a lot about Gibbs. We talk a lot about Hendrick. At times it was Chastain. But when is it like, wow, these Penske cars, you got to go through them.

It's not been the case. It's been one or the other. It hasn't been an organizational wide thing. It's very odd because we talk a lot about the others, but we don't talk about them in that same manner. and it's been the case. Yeah, I mean, it's just whatever they found, it does it start the new season that way, right?

I mean, if so, then, I mean, that they could just set the world on absolute fire. Who's your favorites? I mean, if you had a set of Final Four right now, who you got? Go ahead, Jeff. Go ahead, Jeff. I can break your heart in two seconds. I'm not picking you to win the championship anymore because that's just...

It just doesn't work. No, I mean, I could pick you to win the regular season championship, but like to say, oh, yeah, you're going to make the final four. There's going to be, at some point, it feels like a piano falling out of the sky that has nothing to do with you, lands on your car, and then my pick is ruined. So, you know, what's the point? That's fair. It's a fair. You can only play the same numbers on the lot of tickets. I mean, times, you're just like, it's not going to hit, so I got to move on.

There's Denny again, whining it all not win the championship. So much of this is scary to pick at this part of the year because you don't know how good the Toyotas are going to be with the new car. That's what makes it hard. Yeah. So, I mean, if I had to sit here today, I mean, it's hard to picture Byron dropping off. It's hard to picture Larson dropping off unless Chevys are way off compared to the other two.

So it's like I kind of want to put both them in. and then like I just I don't really trust like the Ford's consistently it's hard to be like oh yeah LaGano or Blaney again because I don't know where that comes from so I almost want to just say like

maybe like Bell is continuing to prove and then you if nothing happens but that's a big if so I don't know I'm kind of tempted to put Redick in but yeah I think all is fair bounce back season

also let me just talk on some bounce back guys Alex Bowman I think he was hurt that's my personal opinion I'm not a doctor or anything but I went through a very similar injury

it was probably very likely he was not a hundred percent in his car control feel do the regular when he came back I think that he has a bounce back season.

I think he makes the playoffs. I think he probably wins a race. I would probably put him down his winning a race. He should. When you drive for Hendrik Motorsports, there's expectations of winning a race. It's a very modest ones, right? But I think it's easy to write him off based off of results from last year.

I don't think that that's fair. I think he needs a little bit bigger sample size. let him prove himself this year and bounce back. So my biggest bounce backs is going to be, you know, Austin Dillon from a point's perspective, Joey Lugano, Alex Bowman. What about Chase Elliott?

Yeah. Where does car finish in the regular season, or in the championship? Because, okay, so, yeah, I mean, it's hard. I left him out. I shouldn't have left him out. but I just gave them a buy and didn't say, oh, he had a season. He was, again, the guy was hurt.

He missed races. They just didn't win. And then they probably made aggressive calls, we know, in a few races to try to get the win, and they chase, chase, chase, next to you know, it's no different. You go for it on your own 30. If you don't get it, well, then you just gave up, you know, seven more points. And now you've got to be even more aggressive because you're an even bigger hole. Yeah.

And so they were behind the eight ball. all right from the beginning. So, yeah, I mean, Chase is going to win multiple races in 2024. I would probably book that. So I see bouncebacks from all of them. You know, I just consider, okay, he was gone. I considered him finishing 10 points. You know what I mean?

So that's why I didn't put him in the total bounce, the big bounceback pool. What is the outlook for Toyota this year with the new design, the new nose, is that going to make Toyota better? Like should we put more stock into Toyota drivers going into 2024? I mean, we think so, right? I mean, like these guys, I mean, we almost fly as much blind as the media does and there's speculation on trying to figure out who's going to be good.

Because while we certainly wouldn't change things if we didn't think it was better, this was the first opportunity that, you know, we got to build a car. and the rules didn't change on us right in the middle of winter. So everyone built their next-gen cars, right? And right before 2020. But then we started cutting holes in the windshield and the back windows and shortening the spoiler and cutting horsepower. And next thing you know, everyone's like,

well, this isn't what I submitted for a car. And so Chevy was the last to get the update in 2022. too. So they had the most up to date based off of the rules that they knew, right? And so then when, then we had an update, you know, to some minor things, uh, with the front of our cars last year. And then, you know, with a new Camry XSE coming out, um, on, on the production line, you know, it was time for Toyota to do a complete overhaul, which is what they did. So we, I mean, we cross of fingers and hope, but we would think that certainly it would be better and more suited to the rules that we know. He's the expert. I defer to him. When it comes to cars and parts and pieces,

I know nothing. Yep. Well, oh, hey, are they going to run this electric car this weekend, right? Yeah, they're going to have a demo run, if you will. That'll be interesting to see, right? It's a, I saw it. It's different. It looks different. It looks very different. Which that's fine. But it does actually have more characteristics to a stock car.

I agree. Than I thought. Because I didn't know what to expect. I kind of had an image in my head. But then I saw it. I'm like, you know what? That's actually not as far and left field as I thought it might be. Yep.

I agree. You know, how you. I think it's, it's one of those things where we were like, holy shit. This was a year ago. Maybe, yeah, a year ago. A year and a half ago, they said, hey, we're thinking about doing a exhibition electric race during last year's clash, right?

They were talking about doing a couple races. Right. And it was like, whoa, wait a minute. What the hell? Where's that from? But then not NASCAR's fault, it's the OEM. They're all split on what is the future. And that is the thing, right?

Is that we're not going to invest all this. this money in this, if that's not even the future of driving. And there are transportation. And I got to be careful when I say this because, again, this is kind of going down and road. I'm not 100% comfortable. But like from the conversation I've had with folks on the OEM side, they, I don't want to say having second thoughts about the electric stuff, but they're having a,

they're questioning maybe a little bit of like, is this the right thing? Is this the future? Is this something that's going to actually be around in what form in 10 years? You know? The challenge certainly is that. But it's starting to come out. There's just not enough minerals. You can't.

There's just not enough batteries that can be produced to go all electric. And so it's not actually feasible. If it did work, would it help the bottom line of teams? Like, would it be cheaper to go this route? I don't think so. I mean, I think all the parts would probably be. It would be about the same. You know, everyone's, you know, everyone's, you know,

you know, this is probably a little NASCAR 101, but I feel as though, you know, not every team's engine deal is the same. Right. It might be the same engines, but some teams pay for them. Some teams do not. Some people get more information than others

as far as simulations and stuff. But you're looking at a probably the most level playing field you've ever seen in NASCAR from an aerodynamic perspective, from a horsepower perspective. it's just a matter of who's got to pay for it and who does not. If it was electrification, you probably would have the same thing. Like, you got to buy the components and team A does not.

And that's just because the manufacturers only have so many resources that they can give away. And they do that to their top, top flight teams. I think this is so overblown this whole thing because it's like the fans are being triggered by imagining Formula E. Oh, I know. The golf cart sounding stuff, and it's very disorienting with no sound. And I just don't, I cannot envision a scenario where NASCAR goes, yeah, we're going to have cars run around with no sound.

Like, it sounds like they went to Japan and saw these hydrogen powered cars race, and they had a real engine sound. And they, in this preseason briefing we had with them, they seemed much more interested in doing that with whatever they use, you know, SUV series or whatever it's going to be than having an electric. I mean, I think this electric one is what they have now, but like, I wouldn't, if you're a fan that's like, oh my gosh, the day they go silent is the day I leave NASCAR. Like, yeah, I think they would agree with you. They don't want that. Right. Yeah. Especially after Lam, like, they got all the feedback from Garage 56. These cars are loud. That's America.

And they're like, yeah, we are, you know. What are you going to say, Jordan? It just feels like this is, this is late to the thing. I mean, if this would have been five, six years ago, this is probably when you should have really pushed it. Now it feels like you're, if you go down this road, you're getting into the party late and the party's going to be dead.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And again, nobody wants to speculate and make that kind of investment on a speculation of what is the actual future of transportation. Like, I hate to even say driving now because I don't know. I don't know.

We're supposed to have flying cars by now. is what I was told in 1995, but we don't. So I don't know. I mean, we're liable will be just driving around these combustion engines for the next 50 years. Who knows? If you go to electric, you can just put a bunch of pinini cards in the spokes and it'll be all right. Nice. Yeah.

I like that. Well, uh, you all want to have a deer Denny or something? Yeah. I have a question. I have a question for you. Yeah. Just on our notes here, we have that the 11. car has a new lead engineer this year i'm curious how uh a change in a lead engineer affects the team

because that's kind of a position swap that we really don't hear about you hear about crew chiefs moving teams but like how much of an effect does lead engineer have is that like the offensive coordinator it is it is it's a very good analogy and it it's it broke my heart i lost my engineer my lead engineer for the last. I hate to be wrong on this, but I don't know, 10 years. He was with wheels back in the day. I mean, he's just been part of the fold of the 11 team for a very long time. But, you know, he wants to be a crew chief, right?

And the typical program within Joe Gibbs Racing, if you want to be a crew chief, is that if you kind of work your way through the engineering program, you then become a lead engineer on a cup team. And then you go back down to a. Xfinity to learn how to manage people. And then you come back up. You know, you get called back up when the opportunity arises.

I don't know that I agree with that philosophy anymore because the Xfinity cars are so different from Cup cars. And if you go back down to Xfinity, you're losing up-to-date information of what's going on in the Cup engineering world for a year, at least. He could be down there for many, many years. You just never know. But, you know, Sam, he was a huge part of our team. Hate to lose him, but, you know, we brought up, you know, Joe Gibbs Racing has been so good about hiring from within.

So we brought someone up, one of the engineers from Brandon Jones's car up to be one of our engineers. We moved Ryan Bowers, who was our second engineer now up to lead. So all promotions from within and part of that process. But it is. These are one of the things that we hear about in other sports. The offensive coordinator for this is taking the head coaching job from there. That happens in NASCAR all the time. You just don't hear about it because, you know, how many people knew about Sam McCauley, right?

So it's just very, very different in that aspect. But yeah, it's going to be cool for him. I think he's with Sheldon Creed. Over there, so I think they're going to win lots of races. I think they're going to be really, really strong. That would be my sleeper pick in Exfini. Dear Danny, we've got some questions that we want to ask. Dare, Danny.

We need answers, and we need them fast. We tried to ask Junior, but his answers were lame. And with DBC, it was more of the same. Now, we're caught on you, because you're our only hope. This ain't the rage tracks, so maybe you I won't choke Dare do All right

Nice Sorry Jeff It'll bring Jeff Jeff will be brought into the Oh okay I haven't seen

This is not on my sheet Please proceed Oh okay Well we'll All right We'll lead with With Dear Jordan And that's

Jordan have you Picked out Any outfits For Jeff to wear To detail That's right So I knew I figured this

was gonna come up Because this Frequently does And I will actually Give you guys Jeff has not seen this So I'm gonna show you

peak he won't see this i'm not saying this is going to be the outfit but i'm thinking that this is very very likely going to be the outfit if you want to pass that along okay oh lord i feel like i've seen you wear this jordan i think jeff would look great in that i think it is a stylish effective outfit i and i told him brother i think his wife will look at him differently in a much i'll just say differently way i think that's a good outfit to your benefit jeff it does compliment your physique well yeah and it's not nearly as bad as as it could have been. Can you just look,

Jordan, can you please excuse yourself to go to the bathroom? Go to Denny's closet. Get one of those outfits that we're wearing in a Travis Scott's concert. At least something like that.

He's got plenty of stuff. You don't even have to take the shoes, even though we know how now he has how many shoes he has. Just take something from his closet. Jared, what was the number? It's like 532 or something. Holy crap.

I respect that so much. What was interesting, though, about that is that, I've of course gotten tons of comments from the shoe collection real that we did is that that's only from the last four years. I get boxes of stuff every month, right? And so I go through it and I pick through, it might be one shoe, you know, for 10 years, I would pick one shoe at every 10.

Well, finally, I'm like, I'm just going to keep everything. I'll keep all the stuff that I don't want to personally keep in a warehouse. And then one day I'll give it to my kids and I don't know, they'll sell it or whatever the hell they want to do with it, right? Or bring out dad's old Jordan collection and then just have a heyday with their friends when they get older. That's what they probably should do. So this is just what I've

collected over this four year period. Now, is Jeff fitted for that? I got some measurements. Oh, you did? That's very key that he fits that properly. Yes, very key. I'm very skeptical that this is. I have no idea what this is. You're going to look good. Who did you get the measurements from?

He gave him to me. Oh, you, okay. Well, I mean, he said, what's your waist size? So I told him, but then he's like, what's your jacket size? I'm like, I don't. Shoes size too. I got to buy shoes. But I'm not measured.

So you're footing the bill for this? Yeah. Okay. To be fair, Jeff, I don't think Jordan is trying to make you look foolish. No. Like, you're not wearing chain link pattern jeans here. You're going to look good. You won't look foolish.

Okay. Okay. I guess. Come on. That's a good-looking outfit, guys. I'm sorry. No, I know, I know. I know.

Now, is this because of the poll that, like, you were cheating on? I wasn't cheating. He was. I played the gray area. You were in the dark shaded area. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was pushing it.

What's your feeling on this, Jared? With, was Jordan by asking the public, what was your you're like would you think or something like that? Yeah, I just want some feedback on the race. And then he would use that information to then one time. One time.

Oh, it's just once. It was only once. No, but then he said he was, then he started texting people asking them once he got in trouble for it. And he was texting people of what they thought. So you know, they had on the teardown, they give a,

the percentage of like, what do you think the good race is going to be? You're never aware. Yeah. Okay. Do I think it's fair that he does that? I mean, if it's not in the rulebook. But I'll stick up for you if he wants to fight.

If it's not in the rule book, maybe you just add that to the rules this year, Joe. Yeah, amen. 12-1-2. Denny didn't hear me, though, when I said that, Jeff, you're not going to look foolish. It's not chain-link pattern jeans. Yeah. As long as I don't look like a clown, I mean, that's probably a plus. because my expectations are pretty low, so, you know.

No. You're not going to look like a clone. All right. Dear Denny, real quick. Oh, another one? Yeah. Oh, you dear Denny, you dear Jordan. Right.

How much input will you have when it comes to the wedding plans? Listen, it took me 15 years to get to the step. Can we just take one step at a time? While we got always, while we always got to fast forward to, oh, what's next? It's like, hey, we just saw a great race and it's like, oh. Well, we got to do it bigger. We got to do it better next week or next year. Like, let's just soak this all in, guys.

Let's just enjoy the moment. I think for every year you dated, you add another year for how long until the wedding actually is. So you should have, the wedding shouldn't be for like another 15 years. Oh, man. Jordan, it's a wonder. I don't know if I don't, I don't know if I'm going to make it that long. That's a long time. Or maybe a month for every year.

there you go just keep kicking the can down the road that's what you're gonna do that's the secret Jeff is that a reasonable timeline you think a month for every year that you waited or I mean it's probably gonna take about a year to plan it right anyway right so I mean the good news

is I don't overdo anything and it will be just a very low key totally understated way way absolutely we didn't even get into race shop updates

in this in this podcast that'll have to wait for that that'll have to wait for sure uh is your shoulder we're good i mean it's not good it's this is it was it's going to be six months before i'm like really really good um i'm in the sim now uh we're slowly working reps into it uh you know i ran 220 some laps on a mile and a half um you know last last week not in a row like i got to take some breaks in there. And it was pretty fatigued, but I think the clash is actually almost a good warm-up because it's just short enough and God knows we can't have any Green Flag racing there. So it's, I think it'll be a good warm-up and I'll be stronger when we get to Daytona.

So the shoulder is good. I can tell you this for an absolute fact, it is going to be better than it ended last season. Last season was a absolute nightmare. That's such a good, simple job. Full speed, too. It was bad, Joe. I can't even hear Jordan, which is a blessing. So I can't tell when I'm talking over him.

But, no, I was going to say you can really see in full speed that that's one thing that I thought was more behind this. Like, I don't think that you were as public about it with the media. Like, oh my gosh, like how much you couldn't even lift it as you see in the show. Like, how bad it really. Like, I don't think we realize the extent of it until pretty late. Maybe even after a season. Right, because I, a lot of it is, you know, probably ego driven of like, I don't want to create any excuse. Like, I mean, if the power steering doesn't break, we still, we still were good enough.

You know, my critchie fool bang his head against the wall because even last night we're talking in his office and it's just like, you know, damn it, I knew you were not 100. I knew you were not 100%. And he kept telling me, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. but I wasn't, but there's nothing I could have done about it. You know, it's just this is something that I put off, and I put it off so late that I ended up doing major, major damage to it, you know, a few days before the Vegas playoff race. And when I did it, I knew I was f***ed, but it was nothing I could do about it. We just had to deal with it.

But I did not want it to be an excuse whatsoever. We didn't make it just because of various reasons. maybe I wasn't good enough or whatever, but it sucks. I feel really good about this year being in a better physical place than I was for the last two years. And that goes with like road course racing, everything. There's just no doubt there was some fatigue going on in some races that I just didn't, you know, where I feel that I'm 100%, I hate to say, but if you're not as physically strong on lap 200 as are lap one, everything is a little slower.

And so, you know, certainly I feel good about where we're going to be this year or with that. Before we wrap up, this review comes from KCDC underscore East. This show is a great window into the NASCAR world. I hope more drivers follow suit. Denny, keep up the great work and go get that title this year. Lifelong NASCAR fan, New 11 fan. I-O-F-Y-D-H. hey they're not giving up on me jeff you quitter i i've been through long enough long enough i've learned

my lesson sorry right you just you end up after martinsville or phoenix every year with your hands in your head like me just like where did it all go wrong again exactly so hey breaking news though i love we do it little breaking news every time i o f F-Y-D-H It's our freaking year It started with L-F-G-D-H Okay, we know that that means. Then it was I

what is it, I-Y-O-F? I-O-F-Y. Yeah, okay. So it's our next, I don't know about next week, but certainly before the season Daytona 500, we will debut the new rallying cry.

And I need the people behind me on this. I'm going to wear the shirt or hoodie on action is detrimental. It will then go on sale, but all I can say is y'all better be ready because this is it. This is it. Running out of rallying cries. Running out of rallying cries. Well, hey, like my friend say, heck, we can always make another hat. So we're just going to have to make another hat. We're just going to have to make another hat. So that'll come out in a few weeks and yeah, we'll see you guys post-Clash and get ready for the day 200 500. Jordan, thank you for joining. Jeff, thank you from afar. You're on the other side of the country. Appreciate your virtual presence and appreciate everyone

tuning in. Be sure to rate, review, and follow wherever you get your podcast. That includes the new Dirty Moe tear down. Hey, we got to tell them. We got a new place to find us now, right? Do you read the no sorry you're the reader go ahead go ahead also we have a brand new youtube page so make sure to go subscribe to it that's actions detrimental on youtube we also link it in the show description down below um and full videos will be going there first this year so you're no longer have to wait till friday for the full video version of this podcast sweet it'll be out with the auto version or shortly after it wow all right you guys behind the scenes the dirty mo you're going to be legwork on the editing getting it out quick so thank y'all and look forward to this season

make sure you tune in to the tear down every Sunday night right after the race on dirty mo's channel check out dirty moe media on Twitter Facebook TikTok and Instagram