Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - "It Doesn’t Change What I Think About Me"

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Denny Hamlin was chasing the elusive NASCAR Championship in his 20th season, but came up short in Phoenix. Denny, alongside his co-host Jared Allen, unpacks the emotions of being so close to a championship only to lose it thanks to a caution flag. He also discusses what the aftermath was like with his fiancé Jordan and their two girls, and what the conversation was like with his dad after. Plus, why he still thought he was going to win when the white flag came out, and how the support from fans and his competitors has helped him start to get over the defeat. He also touches on why he was so confident all weekend long. And, he answers the question every fan has been asking: Will he race next year? Real fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/For more Actions Detrimental content: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimentalFanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So I got to ask now, are you going to race next season? The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. Opinions from tonight's podcast, strictly biased. You're going to hear from my point of view. I'm a fighter. No, you are not. The spoils of victory for Jared Allen.

He's got better luck to drink and drink to win. I know, you do. Two trophies missing from your collection. and the most popular driver. Someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure. Yeah. And I've already said it. Hey guys, welcome to actions detrimental.

I don't know, probably episode 40 this year. Is that about right? I think so. We didn't have any surprise episodes this year. No. 40. It might be 39. Jared and I had to do one.

You did? Yeah, baby episode. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's the loss. episode. That never came across anyone's feed. No, no. I remember Tyler asked me about that.

Did you guys record a podcast this week? I was like, yeah, Travis and I did it. He was like, oh, I didn't hear that one. I was like, it's okay. It's probably for the best. The lost episode. Yeah. Can we feed that to the people during the off season as like, you know,

dig it back out of the files and, I mean, it's actually. No, it truly aired. it's in the feed Yeah it's there There's just no video It's just recats it's like Is there no video?

There wasn't video right Travis? Correct Yeah it was that Oh my gosh y'all half-assed it At least we did an episode that week What were you doing? Hanging out with your newborn Something like that

All right What's the day today? February 14th February 14th No November 14th Oh yeah Let's not move the offseason that fast.

November 14th, what do you all want to talk about? Your birthday's coming up. What you asked for this year? Peace. Peace. World peace? Or just personal peace? Personal peace. Personal peace. This has been quite the year. I mean, I am so looking forward to January 1st. Just because, I mean, obviously this year was just, you know,

I'm on track, off track, you know, ownership, new baby, dad, race for a championship, lawsuit. It just was, it was taxing for sure. I don't think I could redo 2025 again. Really? No way. But you had so much success at the same time. Yeah. but that all, I don't know, I just feel like I'm doing damage to in my internals that I don't know about.

Does that make any sense? Like, you can't just have all the stress in it, not eventually take a toll, right? And you left out basketball, you picked up a new hobby. Yeah, I mean, that just, I try to fit that in whenever I can. Last night, I tried to sneak out. It was, or was it, I was somewhere, got home by 4.30 and I'm like, I got an hour, daylight left. Let me just go out there and just get the boat out and just basically just troll around. Fishing's hard this time of year. Obviously, the fish are very finicky.

Does that help you just kind of get away from? Or do you, is that, for me, that's where my thoughts would be the worst is out fishing? No, it's better because that's kind of only thing that I'm really focused on at the moment because, again, you're trying to figure out this riddle of where are they? What do they want? What time of day is it? Is it windy? Is it not? What's the temperature?

What's the depth? All those things to try to figure out the right way of getting them on the boat. And I've been hot lately. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's just a tough year. overall definitely couldn't do it again um which was i mean i think that certainly the um you know the feeling post race and and the days after that's where why it just it's like oh i just i just went through so much time uh preparing for for this one race and and changing how i i

I'm going to approach the track and drive the track and, okay, I'm going to drive differently. Now I've got to train myself to drive differently because this is what I think the track wants, just all these small things. And obviously it was all going to pan out right until it didn't. Yeah. Yeah, you said in a recent interview that you knew what it felt like to be a champion with five laps to go. Yeah. And I'll tell you another thing is too, is that I think that the fans have helped with that quite a bit.

I mean, you know, I have seen your messages and whatnot. And I really, really do appreciate the fans, you know, being so supportive. And, you know, some of it is them, you know, combating formats and things like that. And this was just a really good excuse to rehash the disdain for formats and whatnot. You know, this is, this wasn't a format issue. This was an entertainment issue. You know, I think about, you know, this, this was my 20th year trying to, trying to win a championship. It, you know, it didn't happen.

Dale Earnhardt took him 20 years to win his very first and only Daytona 500. But we race in a different time than when Dale Earnhardt won his Daytona 500. that race didn't have a green white checker. Dale and Hart likely would have never wanted Daytona 500 had we had green white checkers. And, you know, back then when you had an event and it was 500 miles, it was 500 miles, right? It wasn't 513 or whatever it turned out to be.

But, you know, that's nor here nor there. And just as a sport, obviously, we, over the last 15 years, we really took a jump towards entertainment. I think it did take its toll on some of the race fans and some of the purest of the sport overtime. And then the latest is the format, right? That's the thing that the fans are latest, their gripe is latest with NASCAR.

So, yeah, it was just kind of a all combination of all those things that I think left most fans feeling like I felt where it was just, ugh, you know, it was, I think what they saw didn't feel right. It certainly didn't feel right to me. You know, my job out there, and given the format, was to go out there and race your best in this one race, and that's going to make you a champion. That's what they wanted it to come down to was one race, and you got to perform.

form your best during that race. And for for 312 laps which is the race distance. Now one time was at 5 out in front of me. Unfortunately he was on lap like 315. And for

208 of them. Nobody was. That was the shock to me is that you know when I'm in the car you know I can feel what I've got how much I've got left. you know, what, when I'm pushing it, when I'm not. And then, and so I knew that right from the get-go, we were strong.

Now, given the first run, I was like, oh, man, we're struggling with a little long-run speed here. But we fixed that on the first pit stop. And after that, it was, I thought it was, you know, over on speed. Obviously, it's way more to it than actual speed as we come to find out. So I just, my car was really good. And even when we got back, we had the less side tire that went down under caution. I think we fell back to about 10th on that pit stop. The team did an amazing job, like the two jacks and Joel did a great job.

Only losing those 10 spots. But even still, we were able to kind of cut right back through there and get towards the front. So it felt really good about it. And really, I, you know, not to bounce around too much, but. Even in the green white checker, I thought I was fine. In the sense of when I went off a turn two, let me think, no. Gosh, it's hard to, when you do this, almost two weeks later, it's different.

I remember them saying, all I remember hearing the spotter say is that your three wide bottom and the five is stuck up top. I thought he was the third car on the outside of me. And so when I go into turn three and I clear whoever those cars are, I thought that was it. I thought I was past them at that point. It's not till we crossed the white and the cars fanned out under the white flag and we went to the dog leg and the cars fanned out to where you could see them all. And I saw the five. That was the, I mean, I'm not kidding.

And I'm not overstating when that was the first time I saw them all day. not one other lap was he in front of us and I saw him right there with three quarters of a mile to go and I knew at that point oh my god it's over like at that point I knew that he had won we lost because a we had crossed the white there's no going back at that point and then he was just too far ahead there was just there was too many cars between me and him and that was it so that was my you know usually I've had other losses in championship races where I kind of, you give yourself a little time to prepare for it.

Like, you know, maybe you're not fast enough that day. You're like, oh, man, we really need some things to kind of break our way or, you know, someone passes you with 50 to go and it's like, yeah, we're not going to win it. You know, they're pulling away. It's over. And it's probably what the competition was thinking

for the end of that race. But that was the first one where I was like, I didn't realize we had lost until three quarters of a lap to go. And so that was the like utter shock that I had that I had to just kind of sit there with for a few minutes after the race to just like figure out what in the world, you know, what happened? Yeah. So were you in shock? What is going through your mind? Because I know standing there watching you inside the car after you pull on pit. road. It just felt like that didn't happen. Like, there's no way that happened. Like, it just felt

too unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's just very, it feels as weird as someone that is up 30 to nothing and then losing in overtime when the score's not tied. Right. This feeling, I felt like doesn't happen in any other sport. You're not up 30 to nothing with two minutes to go in the fourth quarter. And then all of a sudden the referee comes over and says, hey, next point wins while the other team has the ball. You know, like that's kind of what happened here is the 11 car dominated 312 lapses race and then with one to go. Yeah. Circumstances. You know, kind of in the bigger picture, maybe there's another sport.

I can't think of another, but maybe. I can't think of another that penalizes the leader or the winning team more than what probably NASCAR does. And a lot of it is just for the sake of entertainment. Again, we went down this road of we're going to go chase more entertainment, more entertainment, and less on the sports side. So, yeah, it is. And NASCAR, what makes it different is the fact that they penalized the leader. more than any other sport or they penalize you know the winning team more so than any other sport

so what happens next you know you you finally you get out of the car like how do you how do you like what's going through your head at that point crew chiefs coming up your your jordan's coming up your daughters are coming up there in tears yeah i i try to just maintain my composure just like as much as I could, you know, especially for the kids because they just want, they, you know, they can't believe what they saw and they, you know, I, I didn't see, you know, all I know is what Jordan told me, you know, Molly was super upset like right when we came off a pit road. She said that Molly started losing it. Like, why is he tent, you know? And so, I just tried to maintain my composure as much as I could for them to kind of teach them one of the life lessons of you're going to face things that

are not fair sometimes. And that's what I did tell them is that this is life. And you better get used to it that, you know, things are not always going to happen as planned. Some things will happen to you that are going to be unfair at times. But that's, you know, that's sports. And that's how it goes. and we can just chalk it up to, well, that's sports, and you just got unlucky there, or, you know, maybe we made a bad call. But in the end, you know, they didn't want to really hear any of that for sure. Yeah, listening to you talk now, it sounds like you've come to peace with the ending of this race and how it all ended.

Well, I think that the fans made it a lot easier. I mean, the competitors, made it easier. You know, I got to give so much appreciation to Kyle Larson and

how gracious he was. During all this, very humble, during all this, and certainly during the banquet given myself and my team the props that, you know, we did deserve

in that final race and, you know, he did nothing wrong. His team knew that they had to do something to try to win. They played the game as it was meant to be played. So we definitely have a deserving champion in the five team. They scored more points than anyone

else the entire year. I don't think anyone should ever question the deservingness of Kyle Larson's championship because he definitely did. And I what did what did I say out in the Toyota

to display at Phoenix and they say, are like, who are you a fan of? Who did I say? Larson. I said, I'm a fan of Larson. I just, if I were a race fan only, you know, I just, I certainly admire his ability behind the wheel and to do special things. And so, if I didn't win, wish it was a Toyota, I wish Chase would have got it. But obviously, Larson is one that I'm close with off the track. and have a ton of respect for.

So I want to make sure that, you know, that five team and Larson, you know, there is no asterisk beside this one. They played the game. They had to fight back. It went to lack down at one point. Got the lucky dog. Another entertainment quirk that got thrown in. It just, you know, we love resetting the score.

And unfortunately, I was one of the ones that got hurt by the restructed. reset. You always said, though, that one of your biggest goals in this sport was to be respected by your peers when you left. It felt like that's... Yeah, that's what honestly made me feel a ton better. And I talked about the competitors, obviously William Byron, you know, saying what he said and other competitors. I just, I can't thank them enough for, you know, at least saying, you know, the kind words. And I do appreciate it. The fans themselves, um, I have just, I have just, you know, just been overwhelmingly supportive. And, you know, there was a moment that happened in Virginia that certainly I felt like I think

I did turn the corner a little bit. I actually just left the racetrack that you saw that I posted on Instagram. And I went to a breakfast place on the way of the airport. And I don't know, I just, I saw this guy and, and I think that was probably his mother and his wife. And the three of them were there. And they were sitting kind of 20 feet from us. And we're in Chesterfield. We're literally probably 15 minutes from my house.

But it's on the main road where, you know, I did, you know, I had our trailer business, Chesfield trailer and Hitch. And it just, that was my hometown. So I see this guy. and as we get ready to leave, you know, his mother's crying. And I can see her kind of looking over and she's crying and whatnot. And he was just, you know, telling me, you know, that you don't, he's like, you know, my son would just absolutely die to be here. He says, we were somewhere this past weekend.

And I remember we told them to turn the race on and everyone just be quiet because we want to focus on this race during this time. And he was just saying that, you know, how happy his son was and his family was that, you know, things were going so well. And then equally how crushed his son was in that, you know, moments right after. But then he told me, like, how much joy that I brought his family during that time. And so, you know, his just very simple message to me, me is that, you know, you racing brings my family joy. So, you know, a lot of us can be really, really selfish at times and want to accomplish things for ourselves. And I think the hardest thing for me in the moment was, and I dressed all you guys after, after the race behind the bus,

all the, all the bros and all the family and everything. But I hated it for all of you guys. It's not, it doesn't change what I think about me, whether I have the trophy or not. I knew on that day, I was better than everyone else was. My car was better than everyone else. We did what we were supposed to do. So it didn't change my feeling of believing that I am a championship driver. I believe I'm certainly worthy of that. but it's just it was more for everyone else it was more for the the group of guys and the friends

and the family and everyone that came out and we had three houses worth of people just out there to celebrate and you know not not necessarily celebrate a win but like the season and then you know if we won that was great and and i just remember you know back in like 2010 when i was just just so serious going into that final race with Jimmy and like not my friends all came to Miami during that during that weekend and I didn't I didn't want to go to dinner I didn't go to dinner with them I didn't go out with them didn't do anything I just wanted to like nope I got to focus on this this is what I got to focus on and I just you know race tight at that point and so I don't know you I mean you guys were around me I was loose the whole time I'm like

it felt like we're good it felt like it was a race at michigan or polka no or any other regular season race you know i i i you guys were just waiting to hear the download after practice like you're like all right well where are we at and i'm like what i say i'm like at dinner you came over and i'm like so i'm like you said 80 percent and you're like we're good yeah and then qualifying that was what i was most worried about i um just you know in the sim itself just couldn't really, I couldn't hit a line in the same in qualifying. I just didn't do, I just was, that one lap was the one that was like, if we're going to stub our toe, it's going to be in qualifying.

Practice, you got enough laps to kind of, you make one mistake, one lap, you got a bunch more to make them up, right, to get a good feel for your car and understand it. But the qualifying, you get one shot, one lap, right? And so when we got the poll there, I was like, oh, it's, it's on now. Now it's, now it's, you know, the chances have really gotten high. And then you see the pit crew out there all hours in the night working on the pit box. And it's like, I'm looking and like, these guys are locked in, man.

They're not going to leave any stone unturned. They're going to make sure they do everything they can to make sure. we have a flawless race. They did. I mean, I've been critical of them. That final stop was the fastest four-tire stop of the day of anybody, I believe. Yeah, they were locked in. I mean, you know, I skimmed through the race.

I didn't watch it in its entirety yet. I don't know that I will. No particular reason, but I was in it. I lived it. So I don't have to watch the whole thing. but yeah i was i was nervous for them when i would rewatch the final stop i'm like oh my gosh you know just hang a tire wrong hit the jack like there's so many opportunities to make mistakes and and they didn't and so um i mean listen those guys were in much of a shock as i was after the race

holy cow oh the look on their face they were just oh my gosh you know and so it's everyone else It's everyone else that I feel so, so sorry for me. It's fine. It is fine. I don't need the trophy. I know what we did on that day. Have you spoken to Gail? Because I think a lot of people think he made the wrong call.

And I still say I don't think he made the wrong call. It's just the wrong outcome. But have you talked to him and how he's doing? If you want to speak on that. No, we haven't. Usually, but this is not unordinary. I mean, maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it's me, but you can ask Gabe Hard or anybody else.

Like when the season is over, I mean, I've given it all I've got, leave me alone now. Like, you know, I just, this is the time I need to, like, not, I don't want to have to deal with anything. Like, you know, hey, you need me to come in and check out a new switch on the dash or something sure i'll stop by one one day this week and check it out make sure it's all good but now this is you know from now till essentially january i don't i don't think i'll have a whole lot of communication but but that's that's to give everyone time and and you know i don't you know chris

i think just did a great job and the whole team did preparing um preparing the car and you know thinking about all the details and even when I think you know felt very confident and here's okay team here's how I'm going to approach the weekend this is how I'm going to drive it now it's going to need something different out of the car to drive it this specific way I want to die on this hill if it's wrong it's wrong but this is what I believe and they just said okay sounds good this is what we're going to do and they just they they bought in and they just uh gave me everything that I needed and then some. You know, it had been quite some time.

I've had some dominant cars in next gen. I can think of like of a Dover race, maybe first year. Like just, that was really fast. But I just, this was one that was top three for me on, you know, speed relative to competition. And it was just a, a combination of, you know, my approach, was different and what I needed and asked out of my car was a little different. So it worked.

And is that because of all the time you had to study? Yeah. Yeah, that certainly gave me an advantage because it didn't, I think I would have eventually gotten to all the things that I wanted to get to. But it would have been really hard to cram it all in in one week. And if you don't cram it in in one week, what happens is you have to go into Martinsville. Well, you've got to study for that test because that's, there is no next test if you don't pass the Martinsville test, right, if you're not locked in. So you got to kind of give each track at a certain amount of time and do. And I just was, again, never given the ability to practice for one race as much as I was for

that one. to go back to the friends and family for a moment i feel like the community that you built this year and over the last few months felt more like a win than the championship race itself like there was no driver with more fandom at phoenix than denny hamlin and the 11 team it was yeah yeah and i and i saw it i felt it uh i still see it and feel it uh on social media so yeah it's it's gratified for me because all you really the cups are empty. The trophies mean nothing. There's only a few

people that walk in the front door of this house. There's only a few people that see it. It's the respect that we really ultimately seek. You know, the two people you know, certainly Mark Martin was one that I always

thought that the guy never won a championship, but if you don't put him in your top 10 greatest drivers of all time, you're absolutely crazy. Because anybody that raced against him knew that that guy was doing exceptional things, even when he didn't have the fastest car, he made speed. And won races. And just everyone knew. You asked Dale Earnhardt and Rusty Wallace and guys with far more wins than Mark Martin. they'd say, yeah, but Mark's the toughest.

Mark was the hardest beat. So that's all that, that's why I think that Mark Martin would tell you that I'm satisfied, I'm gratified. I've won what I hope to win, which was the respect from my peers and the respect from the fans that I am one of the greatest drivers. And I certainly got more of a personal understanding. and certainly admiration for Carl Edwards here lately. Just over the last year, you know,

certainly when he went away from the sport, at that time, I still didn't know. I was teammates with him, but I didn't know a whole lot about Carl. I, you know, we didn't have a ton of conversations, um, even as professional teammates. I mean,

when we had to come together on Mondays, that's what we did. But it was, you know, separate after that. But, you know, my relationship's been like that with a lot of drivers. And Martin Truex is one that I've actually had more conversation with Martin Truex since he's been gone than I was when we were teammates. It's just weird how this works. Well, you're fishing now. Honeyholes. And now he cares.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but I just, you know, if there's people always ask me all, the time now, you know, who do you admire or who do you look up to on and off the racetrack, another driver? And for the longest time, my answer was Jimmy Johnson, just simply in it, and it's still there. He's still the guy as far as, you know, my respect level for what he did on the racetrack and then who he is off the racetrack.

But like Carla Edwards is shooting up that. That list hard, just simply because as I've gotten to know him through interviews that we've had, you know, we had one sit down kind of at Pocono. We've had production things where we have interactions, you know, post-race. I think it was a little bit misreported that like I called Carl after the race. That is not correct. I don't want Carl to think I'm some liar that's telling the media that for sympathy. That's untrue.

we exchanged messages and we did talk, but I didn't specifically reach out to Carl. I think that was kind of a little bit of a misrepresentation. But I had some good conversations with him, and I just, where I feel like he has helped me here lately, when I say lately I'm talking about over the last year, would be understanding the bigger picture of, of racing is just a very small part of your life, and you're gonna find a lot of gratification outside of that.

And I just, every time he talks now, I am very tuned in to what he says, because I respect him so much, and I respect a guy that fought his entire life to reach the pinnacle, and then got to the pinnacle and said, you know what? I don't think this is what I'm meant to do for forever. I think there's something else that is more for me out there.

I don't know if I could ever have that kind of discipline that Carl has, and it's just I admire him so much, and he obviously said some very, very kind words to me after the race. And yeah, it just, it's made, it certainly made me feel as though I've accomplished what I wanted to accomplish in the sport. And everything else from here on out, it's just icing on the cake. So do you feel that even more now? Because I feel like the last handful of years, you've, you've always preached that, hey, you're not going to win every weekend. You've got to find, you know, something more gratifying in life than just winning on Sundays.

Like, do you, do you embody that even more after Phoenix? Well, Well, it's twofold because before the Phoenix weekend, yes, I relax myself with it's one race. Anything can happen. You just never know. Denny your shots 25%. But once you actually run it and once you actually dominate it and once you're sitting there and they're counting down, 10 to go, five to go, three to go. you're at that time

and I never let myself I never got nervous at any point I never I was so calm the entire race I looked at my we compared heart rates after the race I looked at my woo post race

I think my average was like 1 15 118 I felt totally at ease relaxed the entire time and so

which is why the show you know it let me get back to my point it's why yes i i've always been preaching that the championship is the championship it's it's a roll of the dice and i think last sunday was was a proof it sometimes it is a roll of the dice which that's unfortunate um but i'm still allowed to be disappointed when i actually run the race, dominate the race, and then don't get it in the end, right? So I think you can have both. I think you can go in saying that it's been a great year. We made the final four.

That is the accomplishment in which we sought out at the beginning of the year. It always is for each one of these teams. In the one race format, it is get to Phoenix. Whatever happens after that happens. But it's when you have the race that we, had it's also okay to be very very disappointed um with the result after how the game went for 99.9% of the time so i got to ask now are you going to race next season yeah i mean i listen i i i would have begged joe to let me quit had i won that race i i would have i would have

because it would have just been the perfect way for me to go out um But they're not ready for that yet. They're not, you know, they have to have time to work all my succession plan. And we obviously, we set a date out now to at least, you know, come to, come to when that is. We know what's the lifeline left. But I would have certainly really, really asked him a big favor to let me end on that one. had it gone well. Does the most likely format being changed make it easier to race next year?

Or like if you would have raced in this format next year, it would have been harder to get back in the car and do this again? Very. Very. It doesn't make me want to race right now in this moment anymore. They could say 36 races, which they're not. Everyone just get over it. You're going to get playoffs.

But it's still, the all season is still so fresh. I want nothing to do with racing still right now. I've got to get some more time. I mean, again, I'm, I can't wait until, well, December 15th or 18th, whenever, whenever that part's done. Because this year, like I said, it's just been, it's just been so full. Does it make it more appealing? Yes.

For people like myself, William Byron, Kyle Arson, Ryan Blaney, Tyler Redick, I think we're all for bigger sample size. I think if I didn't list your name, of course you love the one race playoff because it rewards mediocrity.

for the bulk of the season. And it allows you to just, you've never had one ripped out of your hands. You've taken out of people's hands, but you've never had it ripped out. So you don't know what that feels like. You don't know what it's like to dominate a season, and then all of a sudden the format or whatever

keeps resetting the score on you, and then finally you end up losing an overtime. Those are the people that are really, really excited about the one race and that we added. because they were able to steal from others. They hadn't had it taken from them. There are 36 weeks of dominating and running well. It's different.

Everyone wants different things. I think mediocre people want the small sample sizes as possible. I think that the greats, they want it to give a bigger sample size. And there might be others, by the way. I want to be careful with saying just those names. There are others that do perform well over a large bucket of time. But those are the ones I thought about this year that were top five. Chase Elliott.

I left Chase Elliott out. I shouldn't have left Chase out. So make sure the clip that you post, Dirty Moe, has got that correction. He is one of the best at grinding through the season. and while he might not be great, he finds a way to be there week after week after week, which is why he's always a perennial guy

inside the top five in total points. So, yeah, it's, average people want small sample size. Greats wants large. The final restart, at the same time that Larson was given the go-ahead by his teammate, which Bowman, I don't blame him for doing that.

You had Legano kind of blocking you. And that final restart, is that a move where the non-playoff drivers need to not do that? Yeah, I don't know. Lugano at the time, I think he was in the top five. I think he was in the top five before that last caution. So now was he contending for the wind? No, I think the highest he got was. was third, maybe fourth throughout the day.

But he was in contention. Now, was he making a move? Did he take two tires because he thought that would win on the race? Was he just playing protection for Blaney, who was the first car? You know, a lot of times you'll see Penske, what they'll do is they'll have one car take the strategy they think that will win and then have all their teammates just kind of follow in line, knowing that they're not, they're likely not going to win, but it just allows them to have a little buffer. But I don't know. That far up front, I don't necessarily have a problem with it.

If I did, I should have just bumped them out of the way. Surely he would have understood. But again, I didn't know. I didn't know the five was ahead of me until it was too late. I thought he was three wide top. He said he's boxed in up top. I took that as I'm in good. good shape. Yeah, not until the exit of two. Did you really watch you on TV get some clarity because

that was the case, but then Larson rolls around Bowman and you kind of get stuck there three wide inside of 22. Yeah, it was a perfect scenario for him and it was obviously the least favorable for me. You know, I got to try to pass Ligano on the bottom. He's got a teammate in front of him and he rolls right to the outside of him. So it was just unfortunate circumstance. and it just worked out the way it did. And that's just also the fascinating part about NASCAR is that we've got, you know, you've got 40 drivers racing for a win at Phoenix.

But then within that, you've got four drivers that are racing for a championship. Right. And all these other cars are just roadblocks. And in the final race, the points don't matter. We have stage breaks with stage points, but for the championship it doesn't matter because you scored more.

Yeah. That's a bummer. I mean, yeah, it's, it, you don't see, I don't know, you don't, if it's the chiefs and the Packers playing the Super Bowl, you don't see someone from the Jacksonville Jaguars out they're trying to block a punt. You know what I mean? It's, uh, it's, what makes us different? That's, that's what they love to say.

What'd your dad say after the race? He was pretty animated beforehand. Yeah, he, he was fine. again, you know, very supportive. He was, he didn't like the outcome, but I think he was still okay with the result. You know what I mean? You know, he said to me,

just like a lot of people say, he's like, I don't know what to say. What am I supposed to say? He's like, you had it. You did it. You know, you just. Don't have the trophy. That's it.

Yeah, I'm sure that was something. I would have liked to see him and Scotty's reaction or just like what they're watching that thing. I've asked to not see it. There is a video from him and Scotty watching the race. But Jordan saw it, but I have told her I'd prefer not to. Yeah. I just got a kick out of him before. hand.

They finally tell him, knock him out the way. Oh, that's him. Knock him out the way. Oh, that was on my. Yeah, before. It was on my real. He FaceTimed him before the race. Yeah, I saw that that got posted, but I didn't, I don't know.

I guess I didn't stay on it long enough to like hear that, like, you could hear. Oh, he did. Yeah, I knew he said that, but I didn't think I would post that part. Yeah. Are you kidding? That Jared's like, that's the money part. Yeah. Yeah, just knock him out of the way.

God, dang it. I wish I would listen to him. dad's always no best oh well um anything else you want to add you want to ask from this Travis uh thanks for introducing me to Ronnie uh yeah yeah Ronnie's old high school friend um he came all the way out to Phoenix and he brought the Chesterfield with him yes he did yeah his number one question I think before he got there was about carrying his pocket knife through the airport he's like the Crocodile Dundee of Virginia. But yeah, something like that.

Yeah, it doesn't quite understand the basics. I always say, Ronnie, you got no cooth. You got no cooze. AP got him some Nike shoes to work the trick. He peed in a bottle in the back of a rental car. With you? Because he couldn't hold it. Was that on the way to practice or qualify?

Yeah. He wanted to come to practice or qualify. It was practice. It was? Yeah. He's like, give me that bottle. I'm like,

all right, well, he must have to dip. No, and I look back there and he's got his wang out, pissing in a damn bottle. He's like,

I couldn't hold it no more. Ronnie, what the fuck? In a way, in a way, Ronnie coming to Phoenix felt like Borat. In a way.

I mean, I took him back to that is so accurate. I took him home that one of those nights in a waymo. Oh, God.

He'd never. I was like, Ronnie, we're going to, we're going to take a Waymo home. A what? A Waymo is no driver. It's all AI. He couldn't believe it. He was. I saw the picture of you with him, with his video, like, I'm in a damn car with no person in it.

Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was enamored with the highway system and the walls that they have. Yeah, he's like, I can't believe the money. They spend on these, these noise. walls. Look at the engraving on them. Why don't Virginia do that? So I don't think they had the tax income

that Arizona has. Yeah, he didn't like wearing his Nike shoes at the track. He had to wear his boots. Yeah, you had to go get new shoes. He did. He had to go buy shoes. It was funny that one of those nights were outside watching TV, he was walking back inside and brushed up

against a cactus. I was like, that motherfucker's sharp. Like, no it, Ronnie. It's a cactus. Oh, man. God, that week was fun. It was fun. It was perfect. For the whole time. For the whole time.

And I'm usually so superstitious about, and I used to be superstitious about, don't talk about this. Don't talk about it. You know, no, no, no. You never know. You know, I didn't care. You guys were like, well, when we win, we're going to do this. We're going to do that. I'm like, sounds good.

And I never act that way. Like, I was confident, I think, because you were confident. So I'm usually like the pessimist. I was very confident. I just knew that I had done everything that I could like there was nothing else for me to look at. Like every night my eyes, you know how you get those those halos around all the lights when you're like really, really tired? You know, it's just every night for like the last two weeks I was, I had those halos because I'm like, oh my God, I'm so done looking at a screen. like I am cooked and so like the night before the race like I didn't I didn't look at anything I just

was like it's all covered I've had enough time there's there's nothing more to look at so like even race day was like not that much I pretty much I had it covered I had triple looked over everything so I was I was very relaxed and certainly looking forward to the race and it played out certainly better than I thought. I thought, you know, in practice, I'm like, yeah, we're, we're pretty, we're certainly more competitive than what I've been here in the past in championship races. But then the race, that gap opened up. We made the proper adjustments. I appreciate you. You stopped talking about the clutch during the race, which kind of helped. It didn't go away. But you not talking about it, at least I appreciate it, because,

so I pulled up for the last hour and 19 minutes of the race, my average heart rate was 1.30. that 170. Wow. I was, I was fine. I don't know about you. I was quite good. But, yeah, I, um, the clutch was an issue. We got to get that figured out. What was happening is it, it just, it wasn't, like it was just a nothing until the very, very bottom. And then it would sort of disengaged. So every time coming in the picture, I had to come into the pits differently than what I did before. And then I had to be very, very, very sensitive with how I dropped the clutch on leaving the pit stall. Because I was so close to stalling it multiple times because usually you have that time to the engine revs up.

You pop the clutch and then you leave. Well, this freaking thing had, it was all the way at the bottom. And as soon as I would move at a quarter inch, it would disengage. So, like, I had to have my revs all the way up and just ready so I wouldn't install this thing out. So it would paranoid me the entire race. If you didn't have the first pit box, would have been a bigger issue for you? I don't think so. I think that would have been the same regardless.

Gotcha. Yeah, you overcame so many. That was one of the beauties of the race is that it felt like you were tested in so many ways. ways. There was the clutch issue. It's like, oh, here's the mechanical issue that always, you know, bites Denny in the ass in these late seasons. Nope, nope, that was, that was fine. Oh, here's the caution with 30 to go with the 44 who was running, you know, 40th on the day. And it overcame that. And yeah, it just felt like there was, there was so many tests throughout the race that the U and the 11 team passed. And at the end, there was just a trick question.

drive i was uh 155 max 108 average yeah so who raced and who didn't yeah so my whoops said thought i was jumping rope though it did rise throughout the race though like it's so funny you can see all the cautions um

it rose throughout the race but it I don't know what time the race ended but you could see like as that green flag run the last Green Flag run went on. It's going down. It just keeps going down because I'm like... You said you were... You're relaxed.

Yeah, I felt so good about it. And obviously... But at that point, my new pet peeve is like, I hate countdowns. Like, Lambert was doing this probably a few years ago. He'd give me the 15 to go. 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2. I'm like, no, just every five laps is fine.

Like, because I just... feel like it creates too much of a sense of urgency to me when he's counting every single lap. I just equate it to time. Like when it was like 20 to go, I'm like, oh man, we're 10 minutes away. That's what I was doing. That's it. That's it. Just no caution for 10 minutes.

And I was surprised to see Byron blow it. I guess he was probably pushing it really, really hard that last run because the last run was only 28 laps, something like that. I did see he was up the racetrack in one and two, searching for speed as I was pulling away. You know, he was doing everything he could to try to get the speed out of his car. So he was probably up there in the fuzz. And more than likely, just, you know, got the thing hot. Yeah.

Before we wrap up here and move on from this race, I did take, I had tons of messages in my Instagram after this. And I took a few screenshots of a few that I just wanted to read off. This one's from David Irwin. I decided to fly to Phoenix this last weekend from Tulsa. I see Denny close it out. If Denny can remember, my son and daughter were one of the last autographs he gave prior to going into the driver's meeting, signed a huge flag. Regardless, this was really what I wanted to share, although I can't even imagine disappointment. He is feeling there's a silver lining.

My son Dawson isn't fully invested in NASCAR at age 11. However, there's a memory this weekend I'll never forget. as a lapse counted down, I could see my son's excitement and potentially seeing Denny win the race and finally a championship. We were both counting down the laps. We even talked about the race at the airport last night. I will never forget the experience. My son and I shared for those 20 plus minutes and we'll discuss that memory until I die. That memory is because of Denny. I don't want to thank him for giving that to me. The result wasn't what we wanted and the trust and trust me. I was upset at the airport but reflecting on last weekend. I will never forget that moment with my

son hoping you guys eventually do a podcast. It's amazing as well. And then this other one, haven't seen a new action detrimental yet, but just want to send my best. I've been a Denny fan for a while, but this year hit different. I lost my stepmom in June and my grandma in August, both to cancer. So hearing about his dad really hit home, I felt his pain, but I also deeply felt his mission to make those timeless memories before it was too late. I'm even from Vegas, so that win, that 60th win meant a lot and watching him race on Sundays carrying the same pain and emotion I was feeling, made those weekends and the grief a little easier. on Sunday he was perfect. That cutback pass on Byron was one of the most

brilliant moves I've ever seen. Then after the race, I think I stared at my TV with the same expression of disbelief as Denny. Absolutely gutted for you guys. Thanks for all the memories and the memories this year wishing you and the team the best and wishing his family the best

on a deeper level than racing all in. So I thought those were cool. The community built up this season and beyond. Yeah. I mean, the amount of fans that were, have been asking for the podcast is unreal yeah well i i appreciate everyone be patient on that i i and all the fans were they're like we understand yeah i um i think this is the earliest i could have done it

um i mean i could have done it but it you know they're this one might have seemed if you're not a fan of mine might have seemed bitter uh apologies if it did um i I think I have a right to be. But I just, I needed some time to kind of let things cool down and certainly be a little more at peace with it. Still don't like it, but you can't change the result. So we all got to just move on from it and I appreciate the support, especially, you know, some of the feedback that you were reading there. Certainly means a lot to me. A lot of that is very similar to what I heard from that family.

and that restaurant that certainly made me feel a lot better about it. Yeah, I think everyone is feeling that. And this podcast is probably a bit of a, I don't know, just probably helps emotionally for any of those fans are still harboring any disappointment or dissatisfaction with NASCAR after that race. Yeah, that's it. The November 14th, we're two weeks.

from a trial. January 1st is not far away and that's where we turn the page and put 2025 behind us. Yeah, and then start 2026. Yeah, exactly. I guess before we close out here,

congratulations to Corey Heim and Jesse Love. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, I saw Connor Zillich. I saw Connor Zillich. at a before Larson's championship party, I met Connor and Jesse at this place. And, you know, I was talking with Connor. And I said, man, he's like, man, I just, God, that sucked.

Like, I feel your pain. I says, yeah, you do? I says, imagine going through that 20 times. You missed, you swung and missed on. your first. Imagine doing it for 20 years in a row like that. But listen, it's, we all, you know, you got to play the game. And Jesse Love and his team, Danny Stockman, they brought the best car and the best driver on that day. They did it and certainly are deserving. And obviously, Corey Heim, very deserving his championship as well.

I loved, you know, I loved Jesse Love's banquet speech. I thought he did a really, really good job there. You know, just, you know, talking about his family and how, you know, certainly made it more connection to me and when he talked about his dad and whatnot. And so it is. It was good to see those guys. I'm big fans of all those guys. And, yeah, wish everyone happy holidays.

and hopefully we'll see you next year. Outside of what we all know you have going on in the next couple weeks, do you have anything fun planned? No, not yet. No, just with the trial taking up most of December, and then he got Christmas, like, you know, where do you squeeze it in? Like, I'd really, I hate vacations, but I need one really, really, really bad. So I don't know, I'm going to try to squeeze in maybe three days.

sometimes between now and December 1st, that's what I would like to happen. But if not, then I've got to try to figure out when it all can happen. But obviously the trial will take up most of that. I was glad to see the Christmas decorators out here this morning when I pulled in because I put up my Christmas tree last Sunday. So it makes me feel good that. Yeah, they're just working on the outside. No Christmas trees go up until after.

Well, I think that's probably wrong. they're probably going to have it. It's a process. It takes a couple, like, 10 days to get all the outdoor stuff. Jesus. Well, it's just, you know, it's just built up over time. So you accumulate all this stuff and they come in, they put it all up and they got a freaking, you know, they got this big ladder truck that takes the lights way up to the top of the trees.

You know, we like to live in the Christmas spirit around here on the outside. Yeah. I asked this when we started the show. Any birthday plans? Your birthday is in, what, four days now? Nope. No birthday plans, which I appreciate. Okay.

We'll figure it out. Trav, update us on OSU kind of, I mean, obviously it's been a great season, but like, when's the first game that we're planning to attend? I said we, we are planning to attend. Well, we have, we had UCLA this weekend. We're not doing that. Then there's Rutgers the following, which is before Thanksgiving. Nah.

And then. But don't, don't you get a home playoff game? Hopefully no. Hopefully you have a buy. So hopefully we have, so then we have the team up north, the Saturday of Thanksgiving. Oh. Then the following Saturday is the Big Ten championship game in Indy. Should we go into enemy territories?

I mean. I don't know if I can be around. I was like, that could be probably, like, it'd be fun, but man, it could be bad. I don't think, I don't know if I could trust you. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. I don't get us in a fight. Well, I'm not the fighting type.

Yeah, but Travis, you push people. I think you've just been really, really lucky not to meet the person that wants to fight. But I'm not in person. I'm not. Now, I still think it's probably not smart to go up there. Because even if you, like, if you lose, then you want to leave. but if you win, where do you go? Because you're just in their backyard.

You can't really celebrate. Well, I think Jordan Brain has a suite there, but I'm not sure they're going to let us wear OS you stuff. So that's probably off limits. Well, tell those lawyers, they get one more loss before they can get all their victories in. But then we get the Big Ten Chambershame chicken and Indy. Okay, well, let's go to that.

Well, there's a slight schedule issue for you. You have a Christmas party for 2311. Oh, well, then that's during the... the trial anyway. Yeah. It's like, I think it's like, unless it's a weekend.

It's a Saturday. But it's in between week one and week two of the trial. Well, I could go Friday after, after court, I could go. And then, skip the Christmas,

2311 Christmas party. Oh yeah. Son of a gun. And then if we got the buy, we'd have to go to the Rose Bowl, which is in Pasadena. Holy cow. So,

the deal. We just go to the semi-final game, the championship game. He's already planning on. Where's that at? I think championship games in Miami. No, the semi-final. I think we'd go to maybe Atlanta.

Oh, that'd be nice. Somewhere close. All right, well, we'll figure it out. All right, we'll figure it out. How about y'all? What are y'all going to do for the next two months? Thanksgiving. coming up, I'm going to go back to New Jersey and visit some family, and then in December, taking a little trip over to Europe and Netherlands and Belgium, Amsterdam, and a bunch of cities

over there. Fun. I don't have those fun plans scheduled. You're going to drink some beer? Go home for Thanksgiving, watch some football, drink. All right. Well, if that's it, then that's it.