Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Kansas: Costly Mistakes

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Denny Hamlin and co-host Jared Allen are back in studio to unpack the weekend in Kansas.In this episode, they discuss Aric Almirola's impressive win in the Xfinity Series and whether or not Cole Custer had a right to be frustrated with Chandler Smith.Following all of the talk regarding the Next Gen short track package last week, Denny shares his insights and suggests potential fixes (4:20). He also expresses his concerns about upcoming changes to the Next Gen car at Talladega (16:10).They tackle Josh Berry's dissatisfaction with NASCAR's decision not to tow his car back to his pit box for new tires (21:00) and analyze how a tire puncture derailed Kyle Larson's race (26:30).The episode continues with a look at Kyle Busch's missed opportunity for victory lane (34:15) and Denny's own challenges on pit road that affected his race day. He breaks down his day and where he's at mentally heading into Talladega (42:10). Denny also explains his loose tire issues that also plagued all three Penske drivers (50:30).Finally, don't miss their take on Ross Chastain’s Playoff spoiler win and how it won't be a surprise if it happens again. (54:45).For more Actions Detrimental content head to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimentalFanDuel disclaimer: FanDuel Disclaimer: 21+ and present in North Carolina. Opt in req. Wager requirements apply. Bonuses awarded as nonwithdrawable bonus bets or profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including bonus expiration. See terms and conditions at fanduel.com/sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 877-718-5543 or visit morethanagame.nc.gov. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Let's get into your day next. Do we have to? I think so. Okay. The following is a production of Dirtymoe Media. Hey guys, welcome to action's detrimental. Ow! That hurt Charlie!

This is not going to be a rose color glasses show. Pleading with NASCAR, who I guarantee you is listening to this. It was warm and then it was cold. But I kind of liked it. The 11 D.H. We're all in. We're going all the way that's promising.

Hey guys, welcome to action's detrimental post-Kansas Speedway. I'm Denny Hanlon, drive the FedEx number 11 camera this past weekend. And I am the co-host, Jared Red Vest, number 311. I just wanted to send our thoughts and prayers

to everyone affected by Hurricane Helene hit Western North Carolina pretty hard. If you're able to, please help out however you can. You can reach out to the Red Cross or Samaritan's purse to donate if you're in North Carolina. There are local supply drop-offs near Statesville and Concord Regional Airports,

among many other places. Yeah, definitely the area around the mountains got some major, major damage. Obviously, they've got so much water coming in from the mountains coming down, creeks get over flood, and then next to you know it's just taking out towns. And so certainly that's an area that is very vulnerable. a lot of people are still kind of stuck because roads were completely washed out. I did see yesterday that, wasn't it, Joe Gibbs and Hendricks' helicopters were up there making runs and whatnot, which is great.

And then I saw one of our friends, Dave Monicell, plays golf with me and our golf guys. He took his plane up there with some supplies as well. Greg Biffle had his helicopter. Yeah, I saw Biffle up there, which is awesome. Yeah, go there and try to help out, make a donation. There's a lot of families in need. Let's get to the race. Yep.

Xfinity Cup. Let's start with Xfinity. Yeah. I like that. Man, fantastic race. You know, I thought that Eric Amarola got the win, passed Cole Custer with three to go, I believe it was. Cole Custer then, you know, before that spent probably 15, 20 laps trying to pass Chandler Smith.

I saw he was upset after the race. I understand why, but I also understand Chandler's spot there. I think he was upset because he got cut really close off a turn four a few times. And so, you know, I don't think he was upset with Chandler racing hard. They're certainly going for the win there. But it sounded like Cole was agitated that, you know, he didn't get. cut very much room when he thought he was there. Quote, you drove me like a fucking clown.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's actually pretty uncharacteristic of Cole. Usually, you know, he's one of those guys. If he's complaining about someone driving, he's usually got a pretty high tolerance historically. So I usually give him the benefit of the doubt. But, yeah, I mean, they're racing for the win there. I didn't watch it on TV, didn't see anything crazy, egregious.

on anyone's part. But it was close. There was a time, certainly when the 81 was coming up the racetrack, when the double zero of coal was right close to being there, or if not there. But that was the chance that Chandler took to try to keep the lead. And he did until probably six or seven to go. Nonetheless, both of these guys find themselves well above the playoff cut line.

It just seems like at this moment. point you get to the next round and then figure out a way you get to Phoenix and then that's what matters. Yeah, no doubt about it and certainly feel as though they're going to be, you know, battling for the championship in the Final Four. Nothing crazy happens. It seems like those guys got a good enough gap over the others to do that. I think that it definitely plays into why, you know, this discussion was heavy last week. There was a lot of debate last week after Bristol about what, what are we going to do about the next-gen short-track package? And I thought that some crew chiefs chimed in. You had Todd Gillen's crew chief. You had my crew chief, Cliff Daniels. And I thought all of them had

some, you know, very good suggestions. My suggestion to throw it in the hat is, I believe, very similar to these guys is that we're running the car at not an optimum height in the front which makes it really really bad in traffic you know we used to have to have you know put our nose on the ground because it you know it just helps with front down force and whatnot um in general down force and because we have these underbodies that that's where all the down force is made we have to run these things like a motorboat where they're way down in the back and up in the front and While that is what produces downforce for this car while it's by itself, it's horrendous in traffic that way. Even when we tested at Charlotte in December before the season started, nose down was definitely better for traffic.

But we quickly realized as teams that, well, we got to charge this diffuser down at the back of the car. So how do we get air underneath the car? and we figured out, well, we just raise the front up and get the air to scoop on in there and create this pressure. So I think personally we've got to get the back of the cars up, put a larger spoiler on them to where that's where the downforce is being made. And then you have, then the second place car will be able to take air off of the leading car and manipulate them.

And that is what the Xfinity cars have so well. when you see them racing, you see the passes for the lead so much because all you have to do is get within a half a car length. If you get within a half a car length of their rear bumper, it starts to take air off the back of their car, and you see them wiggling, right? You saw it at Indy with Riley Herps and Colcester and others.

But that's the biggest difference between Cup and Xfinity is that the leader has the entire advantage in Cup because of the platform of the cars. In Xfinity, the second place car has all the leverage. All he has to do is get somewhat close to that leader, and bam, he takes the air off the spoiler. It's done. Oh, so that's because the car in cup,

the back end is so close to the ground. You can't get, like, air underneath of there to... Yeah, it's just when you get close to the cup car, the air is already underneath there, so you're not really disturbing that. But in an Xfinity car, when you get close here, all the air is going on that back spoiler. I'm trying to explain here with my hands online.

If you're watching on YouTube, you got it. But as you get closer to the back bumper, that air says, okay, I'm not going to end up on your rear spoiler. I'm going to go over to the next car. So you just start taking more and more air off their spoiler, the closer you get to it. And so all the big tracks, even the short tracks, you can see these guys, all they want to do is just get within that half to quarter car

of the car in front of them and they can they can almost shove them out the way without touching them well couldn't you just like lift the back end of the like adjust the cup car and just like pull it back in? Yeah yeah you could but the but you would never want to run it that way because it's the car makes

very little downforce on the overbody and instead makes most all of it on the underbody so we're going to run it at whatever platform makes it best for total downforce so the only way to change that is to change where it makes optimum downforce, which is, in my opinion, get rid of the

diffuser and get more of a spoiler on the car, let the outer body create more downforce, so then the drivers can then manipulate that. How expensive or how easy is this change? I don't think it'll be crazy expensive to the teams. I think certainly the manufacturers would have to revamp tons of. Aero Maps and do a lot of CFD work and all that. So certainly the burden probably would fall on the OEMs more than anyone, but there certainly would be an amount that goes to the teams.

But, you know, just as an FYI, like we, the underbody is one of the big consumables that the teams spend money on each and every week. So we don't, we're not really allowed to repair the bottom sides of our cars due to, you know, NASCAR wanting to create this parody to where everyone's car is the same. And once you start repairing, you're going to start making it better, right? You're going to find a way to make it better. So that's, you know, one of the things that we spend, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on, you know, most weeks at 2311 is we've got to get a new underbody because it's tore up. So that's the one part of the car that really promotes this parity.

Yes, absolutely. because if you were to go try to make the car faster, you would immediately start underneath of it. Yeah, I mean, it's, yes, because the overbody just doesn't do much. You know, while NASCAR test, when they test parity for all the manufacturers, they're testing the overbody, you know, because kind of which platform you decide to run your car at is all kind of dependent on your team and driver and crew chief preference and whatnot.

but they're all going to run them in the same kind of platform, which is nose up, tail down, get that thing charged up. And so, yeah, it's just, I think more down force need to be made through the overbody,

then let the drivers manipulate their competitors through that. And by the way, you know, to add to that, I think the, um, Todd Gillen's crew chief says, oh,

900 horsepower along with it. Sure. Absolutely. But let's be realistic and just say, okay, give me the $750 back that we had a year or so ago. Because, I mean, we're sitting around, we're waiting on this new manufacturer. Like, we've been waiting for 10 years now.

Like, let's make the product that we can, that we're putting on right now the best that we possibly can. And then we can figure out, if someone new says, I'm coming, figure this out. You've got to reduce it to make room for us. Then we do that and we adapt. But I understand that the OEMs, concerns that, you know, now we're designing an engine for this and that and whatever.

Not to be lost in all this is that Super Speedway racing. I hear Dale Jr. talking about it all the time. It is poo-poo. A lot of it is poo-poo because we're running too much horsepower at the plate tracks. The car weight makes way too much drag, way too big a spoiler. You know, in my opinion, if I had the reins and the controls on the button, and here's how I'm going to fix short track racing. I just gave you that.

And then if I'm going to fix Super Speedway racing, I'm going down 150 horsepower or whatever it might be with the cup cars on the speedways and then taking a ton of drag out of the car. Simply because you cannot pull out of the line on Super Speedway's right now because of the detriment how much drag your car has. And they have that much drag on it because they have too much horsepower.

You know, we used to run, I believe, in the 300, you know, 300's horsepower range on Super Speedways, and now we're running the same as we are on the other tracks, which is 600. So to keep us from going 220 miles an hour, they just added spoiler and just really drug the car down in speed on the outer body. So get that out of there. Go back down to a smaller tapered spacer for Super Speedways, and then it'll allow us. to make more aggressive three, four wide moves. When we get a run, we'll take it versus just staying in line. That was by fix.

So the Xfinity car is cheaper and the races usually tend to be better. Why not run the Xfinity car? Well, because those cars are not, they're not relevant to OEMs currently. Like, you know, the super that they run, let's say, for Toyota, other than the front nose, the front bumper, this little one foot section, it doesn't look like a Supra, right? It just, this is a purpose-built race car and whatnot. And what they loved about next gen is this actually represents the body of the factory Camry. So it just, it looks more like a real Camry than what Xfinity does.

And those cars are antiquated. You know, they've been around for a long time. Most of those cars are old cup cars. I think in the long term, there'll be supply problems when it comes to Xfinity because a lot of the parts are not made anymore. So, you know, where they go with it in the long term, I'm not really sure. But, you know, I just think that the OEMs prefer next gen just simply because of, you know, how relevant it is, a little better opportunity for technology to be added to it, you know,

such as, you know, hybrid power or something like that. That's fascinating you say that because from just someone who watches the races, my perspective is the Supra looks the most like the streetcar. Really? I don't think the Camry or the Mustang or the Camero resemble anything like a streetcar. I don't compare the two, but I see the nose of the Super. I'm like, oh, that's a very distinguished nose, as is the super, the streetcar super. Yeah.

The nose is very distinguished. I mean, you've seen the super. The super is a hatchback, right? It's not nearly, like the back glass goes all the way back to the. But couldn't you change the body to make it look? But like you could change it so it does look a little more similar, right? And still. You could, but it's, I believe that they could achieve the same thing with the next gen car and body.

They just got to put more overbody downforce on it and less underbody. I just love to see some like marketing stats on that. Whereas, you know, if the race car, how many fans think the race car looks like the actual car? And are they buying the street version of the car because the race car looks like? To me, it's a race car. It looks like a race car. Does the McLaren F1 car looks like a McLean? Exactly.

Or Asthma Martin? No, no, no, it doesn't. But it's, you know, it's tough because I go out to the midway, right? and look at all the OEM displays. I mean, they have the cup car there and then they have the street car. And go out there. They look similar.

They do look similar. Yeah. To me, it's just that I would buy X car because my fandom for a certain team. Yeah. I hear you. But who knows? You know, again, this is just fantasy land

of here's what I would do if I would fix it just because it was a big topic I saw on social media last week. And then, and then, you know, obviously this weekend we got briefed from NASCAR on changes that they're proposing for Talladega, which is running that roof rail over our front windshield. And obviously the drivers were not in favor of that. For one, it looks like ass. And second, you know, it will, it hurts visibility. And I saw Bozzi tweet and he was trying to explain to the people that it shouldn't really be a big deal.

But the problem is that we take tearoffs off of our front windshield. And Super Speedways is one of the worst tracks for debris on the front windshield. So we need to get those tearoffs off. Well, this blocks probably 15% of the windshield and especially the right front corner where when we're side drafting, we were constantly looking out that right front corner of the windshield to gauge. how close we are to each other and others and there's just not a really good solution well how we're going to clean the windshield on that side of the car so um i don't know where they go with it uh certainly the oEMs is not going to be in a huge favor of this big clear plastic thing running over

the front windshield of the car um it's they they got to come up with something better than that um that is you know we've cut holes in the front windshield of the car um that is you know we've cut holes in the front of the front windshield the back windshield like we've had to put so many band-aids on this thing um because it just wasn't ready to come in to production and racing when we decided to you know implement it but um we're we got this thing's held on by duct tape yeah it seems like if you're going to put something over the front windshield and it's going to affect visibility you might as well make it your sponsor logo because then you can just charge more i sure do love fake newton's I'm glad you guys are here

Sounds good So Eric Amarola wins I thought generally speaking He did a fantastic Fantastic job Driving at the end of that race The poise he had He ran he was committed to the wall

Right from the very beginning And just Drove masterfully I mean just really put on a show and when you think that, oh, Cole cleared for the lead, now he's going to set sail, Eric just kept chomping away. And you saw the deficit go from five seconds all the way down to one, and then it stuck at one.

Cole gets the lead. And that just, once he was battling with Chandler there, it allowed Eric to close in. And, man, just, that was so fun to watch that race and how it all played out. And then, you know, while he caught them by running the wall, Eric just turned right to the bottom of three and four and just timed it perfectly and just Bravo. Yeah, his second win this season, and I was about to ask you how many more races he had left in

this 20 car for JGR. Apparently it's six because he tweeted, well, that was fun, six more. Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah, I think he'll be a contender. He's with a good team. He's obviously a cup driver. So he's certainly got enough experience to,

race some hell here in these last few races. You want to touch on the truck race at all? Corey Heim wins that on Friday night. Yeah. Look like he had the dominant truck early. I mean, I could watch lap times during the race and saw that even when he was in traffic just really, really fast. And it seemed like, you know, that they really hit on something in the mile and a half.

I think that he mentioned that their team had built a new truck before the, I think, the first Kansas race or something like. that and it's been super fast ever since but um shout out to lane rigs as well that team uh Dylan the crew chief there lane uh the driver of the 38 uh he is that that team's coming on strong here lately and so um they had won back to back races correct yeah they won back to back and then you know contended right here i think you finished second um to uh to Corey uh this past weekend so Yeah, shaping up to be a heck of a race for the championship. Lane's not in it.

I don't believe, which stinks. But, hey, that's part of it. You know, you got the whole first 15 races or something like that for the truck series to get in there. But it just took that team a little too long to gel. But now that they have, they're showing what they're going to, you know, what they can be capable of. Yeah, up until Pocono, that team had finished in the top five twice. So that's about at least 10 races. here maybe closer to 15.

They finished top five twice. And then since then they haven't finished outside the top five. So five straight top fives. Yep. On a roll. Let's move to the cup race. We had some action on lap one. We were watching Josh Barry's onboard before starting this podcast.

It's a wreck on lap one, including Harrison Burton, Ty Dillon, Jimmy Johnston, and Josh Barry. And apparently Josh Barry just had four flat tires. And instead of towing them to the pit. box they towed him to the campground. Yeah, I was confused because I asked you guys, I said, well, why didn't they just tow him to the pit box? Because that's what NASCAR said they would do if you just had flat tires.

But apparently, they deemed him to have damage. Jeff Kulak reached out to NASCAR and they said, if you are involved in an accident and have damage, you are out. If you spin out on your own and have a flat tire, you will be towed back. So because he had contact and was other. cars. Yeah. I mean, it's starting to happen quite often now.

This was a hot topic when NextGen was first introduced, I remember, because Jeff had been talking yet again, it's, if we have a flaw in it that when the tires go flat, you can't move. You know what I mean? It's just because we have these rub blocks that are on these cars on an underbody. And so when the tires go flat, you're sitting flat on the under, you're sitting. flat on these rub blocks. And what the rub blocks are designed to do is protect the underbody from getting damaged, you know, because we would run these cars just really low to the ground to, to charge that

underbody. So we have, there's four rub blocks on the car. And what happens is that when the tires go flat, it sits flat on these, you know, just pretend your car is sitting on center blocks, right? the tires are off the ground and and so you can't go anywhere until they um until they uh you know get four tires on it so so because he had contact with another car they said he had damage and so therefore they're not towing it back to the pit box right right yeah i i predict they'll change that rule there'll be enough uproar and they'll respond to social media and stuff and they'll they'll allow that there's there's no reason why he shouldn't have been able to continue so where we're in the loophole of rule books can you come up with a way to change this to to make it to where

you know he's able to put four tires on it i'm more surprised they didn't have the uh the weight jacker or that the the system in it that that you plug in and it fills your uh it changes your ride height so you can get back to the pit box so there's you know remember those shock actuators that they allowed us to run starting at Michigan or something like that. I know that we had it in our 11 car at Michigan. But, yeah, they give you the option to run these to where when they come to your car, they just plug a air compressor in it and it raises your car up so you can get back to the pit box. Oh, like those cool street cars you see it.

Like run flats, basically. Well, it doesn't. It's not in the tire. It's in the. It's in the shock. Oh, okay. Yeah. It just kind of pushes the tires down.

I didn't know cup cars had that. They had the option to. You have the option as teams to run that or not. Got it. Now, I don't know if there's any aerodynamic advantage to having them or not. I have no idea about that. But I know that we had it at Michigan. I know that, let's see, maybe Daytona.

I think I had same issues. And they plugged my car in at Daytona. And I remember it raising up, but the steering was all broken, so I couldn't go anywhere. So I just kept going in circles back there. And finally, they're like, are you done? I'm like, yeah, I'm done. So I was trying to reverse it back to the pit box any way I could to just get back

to the pit box and just couldn't do it. So the reason that they won't just hook you up probably and take you the pit box is that that you got pit cycles going on and they probably don't want safety vehicles on pit road, you know, during cautions if they can help it. Well, I mean, how long does it take you? The safety vehicles to Josh Barry's car before, you know, the race cars come back around the racetrack. Like, you just close pit road for a lap, drag him to the pit box, and as soon as you drop

them in the pit box and open up pit road, right? Yeah, there's always going to be unique circumstances where, um, someone around him needs to pit for something. So you don't want people out there working on the car while there's live pit stops going on. That's what you're saying. I just don't think they want safety vehicles on pit road. I know it won't be long. You could just close pick road,

but there'll be an instance where someone needs to pit that safety truck is sitting in the box. So I don't know. But it certainly seems like take that chance versus the chance of knocking someone out. Can you imagine if this was a playoff driver? Yeah, that's where the uproar would really come into play. Like Chase Elley just avoided that accident. Can you imagine if it was chasing that? We would have had a bulletin already.

A playoff driver that did have some trouble early on is Kyle Larson ran over some debris and then had a flat tire and got in the wall. Fortunately for him, I guess maybe not so, not fortunately, because his car really wasn't competitive the rest of the day. but when he blew the tire he was close to the wall so it didn't completely destroy it. Yeah, I couldn't understand. I didn't see him all day. And I thought that he was starting, I think, 11th or something like that.

And I was starting 8th. And so I thought within the first few laps, I was going to see him at some point we were going to battle. But I just never saw him. And then I saw him sitting on pit road and the team was working on it. And I'm like, what happened to him? Did he get in that first lap wreck or what? So I watched it, and it looked like, you know, just blew a tire there. You can kind of see the, not the smoke, but just kind of like the air coming out of the back of the car.

And he hits the wall. And so, man, it must have just drugged some bad stuff off the bottom of the race car. And again, that whole diffuser that we're getting all this downforce from, if you lose a portion of it or you damage it at all, just kills what your car is capable of. And certainly, when I'm looking at his car saying, where's his damage? It's all on the underbody.

And so it was crazy to see how much speed it took out. Yeah, this race was not as advertised. Going into this race, NASCAR was promoting that it was Denny Hammond versus Kyle Larson. And we didn't get that. Now, for various reasons, certainly, on our end and certainly on his, unfortunately, having a flat tire so that was just not um certainly that that was probably early on right

lap yeah in the first stage yeah Travis has lap 20 here on our on our rundown yeah these things are fragile on the underside not not fragile at all you can beat and bang with these things pretty pretty easily uh and not get overbody damage but the underbody i mean you roll over some duct tape you're, you know, you're risking losing a lot of speed in your car. And it's fascinating because as a fan, you can't, you can't see the damage. I know.

There probably were a lot of people wondering like, what in the heck is going on? Why is he so slow? But it's, yeah, it just doesn't take much. Yeah, if you just follow the race on TV or not on Twitter, like they did a good job explaining it, but you're not seeing everything. And you're like, why is my driver not, like you're getting mad?

Yeah, I mean, it happened to us at, at Michigan. Nothing to the overbody. It was all clear, right? But what you guys couldn't see was the underbody when I spun through the infield there, it just destroyed it. And, you know, when that is, you know,

mostly all where your downforce comes from, any sort of cut or slash or gouge on this smooth underbody just disrupts the entire flow. You know, those who want to learn about aerodynamic, Followed Dr. Obs. He's one of my favorite follows on X, if you want to follow him. He talks a lot about aerodynamics, and I think he's got a PhD in aerodynamics or fluid dynamics.

Fluids. He's got a PhD in fluids. Oh, okay. So water? Yeah, but it's generally you kind of know how things work around edges and things like that, but he does a lot of explaining when it comes to F1 Arrow and, hey, someone's got a new wing, here's what it should do. When you have something like messed up with the diffuser, do you know instantly that my car's

messed up or when do you know as a driver that the underbody's been? I knew right away at Michigan, more than likely Kyle knew right away. All it takes is you to make one corner after restart to realize, I mean, as drivers were so sensitive to grip levels. As we get in tune to the weekend, like we know what our car is capable of and we we know how to balance that with, okay, I'm in traffic. So this is about what it should feel like. It just takes one corner on the first lap of a restart to realize, oh my gosh, my car does not have the capability that it had before. And I about spun out when I was running half speed at Michigan on a restart. And I'm like, man, this is not.

right Chris and so they they went to work on it but you just you can't repair it back to where it really needs to be and that's what Larson said it has no grip so that makes sense yeah okay yeah I mean it's it's it's crazy we're we're just dealing with little things here and there and again it happens throughout the race all the time um you know there's probably a time your favorite driver has just all the sudden shit the bed and not been as competitive as once they were they could just simply ran over a bolt or something that gouged the bottom of the car. That's pretty much what Kyle did. Yeah.

As they mentioned on the tear down, this race was a race of missed opportunity for a lot of playoff drivers. Christopher Bell, another one of those guys. After qualifying on Saturday, it sounded like he felt like he had the car to beat on Sunday. And then he hit the wall a couple times, and that was it. Yeah. It certainly was a lot of missed opportunities, right? And certainly you saw, you know, Ross Chastain won.

And, you know, they were on that, I think, that alternate pit strategy where we kind of had that weird thing at the end of stage two where caution comes out with 15 to go. We restart with 10-ish to go. There's another caution. So then half the field split. So the field then swapped and said, okay, the back half of the field said, okay, we're going to pit here, then not pit at the stage. and then the other part says, all right, we're going to stay here, get the stage points, and then when stage ends, we're going to go ahead and pit. Well, then that just flipped the field.

It was almost like a road course race. And so those that were at the front, you know, who decided to pit in that sequence were the ones that ended up at the front. There was ones like myself, Alex Bowman, and William Byron, who all were able to make up enough spots to get back towards the top five at the the end of the race due to just car speed but it just was really really difficult to be able to overcome that in the final stage once we got put back to I think I had to restart 24th byron was 22nd or so so we were all in the 20s and it's just trying to make up 20 to first and 100 laps it's just not going to happen but a lot of these guys including yourself did make up

a lot of ground We did Yeah I mean we were closing in It was shaping up to be a really really good run to the finish Because I think everyone was closing in on Kyle You know you probably heard our radio We were you kept saying five and a half seconds back You know when we were in eight right

And then we make a few more positions And I start catching Alex Bowman and William Byron They're right there in front of me I'd run them down where they were a second and a half In front of me and then they're still catching the eight who's backing up to the one and you know it was like it was going to be at the end

like five or six cars all battling for this race win but unfortunately Kyle Kyle stepped on it as we like to say in our in our business and spun out what happened there with did he make a mistake or yeah he just he put himself in a really really bad aerospot and again a narrow spot that I found out at Michigan, you know, just when you get to the right side of someone's right rear quarter panel

and you then get close to the wall, it just takes all your down force away and you spin out. It's just like a pocket of air that your car just lifts up and takes off. Do you think? And so I think he just put himself in a really, really bad spot by trying to stick it in there, which I understand why he did. You know, he's trying,

he's trying not to get held up by chase any longer than he has to because, again, the one, everyone, we can see, I can see even in sixth place or fifth place, I'm running to him quickly. And so he had to, in his mind, make a move to get around this guy as soon as possible so I can get back to clean air, and then we'll hopefully get back to the pace that he was.

but it just was a real risky move that obviously didn't pay off. Yeah, I assume he probably didn't feel like he had much time to give up there because Chastain was right on his bumper, right? If he lifts there, I'm guessing that Chastain gets a big run down the backstretch and he could have lost the lead that way too. Yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, again, did Cal have one of the best cars all day? No, but he found himself up front through this alternate strategy. And then so if his car was really, really good,

good. He would have been able to run an alternate line to pass Chase Barrisco, but I think he was kind of pinned to the top there, and it's what he needed to do to get around him. And Chase obviously did not want to give up lead lap, you know, simply for the reasons of, you know, why, you know, he's, if Acacia comes out, he's back in the game and can make up some spots on restarts and put himself in a better points position. So everyone's fighting for something. It's just everyone's fighting for something different. Did he do anything wrong there, Chase Briscoe? I don't think so. No, he's just trying to protect the lead lap, which is a very, very important thing to fight for, especially at the end of the race. You think we're going to see Kyle Busch win this year? Is his street coming to an end?

Man, every time I doubt them, they seem like they go on a run, so I don't know that I want to charge that up, but I feel as though they're definitely running better than they were. When we talked about earlier in the season about, you know, Jared, there's, what have you asked you? I asked you. What have you seen? What makes you think he's going to win a race? Like there's nothing.

And as far as winning it on just speed going out there leading 200 plus laps, no, I do not see that happening. But he could win through sequences like we saw this weekend where, you know, they're running pretty good. and then all of a sudden the field splits on strategy and he's on the right strategy. So I think that certainly what's most likely is the streak is over, but I wouldn't count him out

because I just think that he's a capable enough driver. I mean, we know that. No one's questioning does Cowboys still have it? I think he might question himself at times more than what we question him. But I just think that there are, while they're gaining on the speed that they need to compete, it's just,

it's not happening often enough. Do you think he's comfortable in this car? On the tear-down, they mentioned that maybe his skill set just doesn't translate super well to this car. I don't know, watching this replay over and over again, it just seems like such a rare mistake from such a good driver. I don't know.

I don't buy that. Just simply because great race car drivers can adapt to whatever they're driving. I just feel as though you know, he's going to running dirt now. Surely he's gotten much better at that, but like

you're just going from Gen 6 to Gen 7 and while next in yes, it's quite a bit different. I mean, we've been doing this now for three years, surely being able to adapt by now. I just I don't necessarily buy the Cowbush's style doesn't fit

this car. I just think that as a, the great drivers, they, they can figure it out and they'll adapt. So I think there's been other factors. Now, I think for the first couple years, I mean, he was at Joe Gibbs Racing. Yes, he didn't win very much in those next gen times, but I don't know. I just think, yes, there's a learning curve for all of us there, you know, figuring out how much we can hang the car out, what does it need to go fast? But he's got enough races under his belt now where I, I just,

wouldn't pin it on well it's his style and it doesn't fit everyone changes their style um you know we have to change our style weekly going from track a to track b to then the following week track c that's totally different we always have to change our style but aren't like i'm watching this this onboard aren't you planning this corner well before you go into it like it seems like on this exit here he kind of maybe just runs out of room. Yeah, I think he got a bigger run on the corner exit than when he was expecting. Like he wasn't really close to being up beside Chase until Chase pulled down the racetrack. You're watching it.

I'm not. But from what I remember, you know, they both entered up high and then Chase pulled down the racetrack. Well, what that does is give the car behind you lots of air on the right side of their car that then, you know, charges your car again and now you've got down force well as that gap starts to close it it happens really quickly but then it all shuts off in one instance and that's when he hits the wall so briscoe's running looks like briscoe enters and runs the middle of the racetrack say it again it looks like briscoe enters and then runs the middle of the racetrack he enters where he enters the high yeah yeah they both entered High and then Briscoe pulled down because that's what his car needed.

You know, the reason he pulled down there is you can use the seams to kind of manipulate your car to help it do something that you need. So that was the optimum line for him. And then Kyle saw an opportunity. He's like, oh, there's a hole here. And now he gave me some air on the outside. I'm going to stick it on the outside here and get position on them. But it just was just wasn't going to work.

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21 older and present in North Carolina, first online real money wager only, $5 first deposit required, bonus issued as non-wistrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. Gambling problem, call 877717-185543 or visit more than a game.nc.gov. Let's get into your day next. Do we have to? I think so. okay we'll start with for those who watched the race obviously understood that the pit crew had had a rough day but you said afterwards um you aren't in it mentally lots of wires crossed bolts loose at the moment what can you do um what what do you mean by that can you expand on that i was answering a question i believe about you know what's your mentality like how do you stay

in it in the car with when when you have so many issues yeah i was more speaking in the moment. About that race. Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of people took it as, I don't know if they heard the question and took it as more of you. You're mentally just out of it altogether.

No, no. This was talking about every reporter asked the same question after the race. Where's your mentality heading into Daga now? Like, I don't know. I don't think about Dega until fucking Monday or Tuesday. Like, I, like, that's just, I'm, I'm in the moment in this bubble, right?

And I'm, and I'm trying to, you know, make sense of, of my day and, you know, how did the result turn out and what could we have done better. So, yeah, I mean, I, what I'm saying there is that, yeah, when they ask about my mentality, you know, about, you know, how do you stay mentally in it while this is all going on? I'm like, you know, mentally I'm not in it. Right now I'm just pissed off. And what I'm trying to say is I'm pissed off. You know, I said, I got some wires crossed, you know, some bolts loose.

It means that, you know, I'm rattled in the moment because I'm so angry about kind of how our day went. That's what that meant. Thank God I have a podcast. Is that really just the only line they use? No, the full, but I think people hearing it, at first I had to go back and listen to hear the question again to realize the question was about the race. but it was hard to hear and I think people some people took it that way. Okay.

But you said that. You said you aren't in it mentally, but you still made up like a lot of ground on the racetrack. You drove back to the front multiple times. Prove me wrong, right? Because we talked about on the flight home, Austin and I were watching the race in the bus for a moment. He's like, oh, no problem.

Daniel will get back up forth. I was like, there's no shot. He's getting back up to the top five. And to your credit, you did drive back to the front multiple times. I mean, I had a few good restarts and our car was fast. I just, I hate we never got to show how fast our car was. You know, it probably caught people off guard to say, wow, you thought you had a winning

car. Hell yeah, look at the lap times. You know, once we got strung out there, we were the fastest car by a lot, many, many lapse. But every time I would get back, you know, towards the top three or four, a caution would come out and then we'd go back, you know, so far in the field. So you can't show it, like I said, you can't show it when you're running 15th. It's really hard. And so, you know, we had a rough day on pit road. There's no doubt about it. And, you know, I love my team. They, you know, we're all close. And those guys live and breathe the 11 car. And, you know, they, they don't want to make

mistakes and they don't want to have a bad day on pit road they want to help us win the race like they did at richmond earlier this year right we've had many days where the 11 team's been p1 on pit road so you know while i can be upset and frustrated in that moment which i think i'm allowed to do um i think you're also allowed to turn the page you know the next day and say all right well then let's let's go to work let's figure this out because i need you this weekend i'm going to need you this weekend and the following weekend after that. So we are our team and just sometimes, sometimes, you know, we dropped the ball and we definitely did yesterday. I know you said that they know they messed up on everything, but do you ever go to them after the race and have a quick talk or is that just Chris or like,

what's the dynamic? Yeah, Chris is the closest with them and certainly our team, you know, kind of the way I think that they close out the day on Sundays is Chris's job and he really does a great job of kind of getting them all together and holding everyone accountable and also, you know, keeping the team morale high. So I certainly think that, you know, I didn't say shit on the radio. Like there's, what can I say, right? I just, I think you said one, the one, after the first one, you said, I can't lose track position, please. And that was like the only time you ever really voiced anything. Yeah, I mean, there was, yeah, there was, we did have one clean stop and then Chris was holding me for fuel.

so that that kind of set me back a few positions and I just was trying to iterate that like I have to have track you know I'm not going to be able to just keep passing these people over and over and over and over again and I passed the same cars felt like four times throughout the day why would you not be able to pass them again what do you mean like if you pass because eventually the competitors get their cars better the longer in the day it goes the harder it is to pass so if you put me 20th on lap 30, I'm going to be able to go right to the top five, I don't know, within 50 laps. If my car is really good, like I feel that confident in our ability to pass and go forward.

It's because, you know, when our car is at its best, especially early on, we're going to make up spots. As race goes on, teams make adjustments and you'll hear them, they'll steadily get their cars better and better which makes the difference in speed between myself and them a smaller amount, which makes it harder to pass. We talked about this at Bristol, right? You're going to have to have a significant advantage over the car in front of you to be able to actually pass them. And it's no different at Kansas. And they'll close that gap the longer the day goes. And so I was trying to reiterate.

And Chris knows, like, he doesn't want to lose spots, but we got to, we have to keep, we've got to come out wherever we come in. let me continue to do the work on the racetrack. You know, I don't need you to pick me up six spots. I just don't, you know, if I can not lose a handful each stop, then we're going to have a great shot to get up here and lead this race and win it like we should. Do you ever feel like you have a better perspective on how to handle these types of situations because you also are an owner or are having drivers at times the last couple years, bitch to you about their pit crews?

Yeah. That you can like see it from a different perspective. Yeah, I definitely see it. from alternate perspectives for sure. You know, when you're building a team from, you know, scratch, especially a pit crew like we did a few years ago, I mean, there's some things that you just can't change in the moment. You know, we don't have, we're not as deep personnel-wise

is what Joe Gibbs Racing is. You know, so, you know, I don't know how many pit crew members JGR has, but 50, 60. I don't know, it's a lot. I feel like, you know, between development, Xfinity, Cup, they supply tons of pit crews. And so they've got a huge pool where just a few years ago at 2311,

we just hired 10 guys. That's all we could get and feel comfortable with was 10 guys. So that's five for each team. And so there was no depth. And so over time, we built some depth into our teams.

And so we continue to improve that in the offseason most of the time. but it's just too hard to just pick and choose guys, and then you've got chemistry problems and things like that. So we've definitely found in the Cup series, keeping teams together seems to be the best way just because it seems like they start to gel and they start to hit a rhythm,

but we just got to get back in ours. It's always just a reminder that NASCAR is a team sport, and while Denny Hamlin is a driver and he's the one on everyone's t-shirts. There's a figurative defense, right? Like there's like football. I look at the offensive line. Offensive line.

They are the offensive line, no question. But you are plus 11 going in to Talladega. Where do you... Hold on a second, though. You weren't the only... Pinsky had the same issue. Is it the pressure of the playoffs? Or what do you...

Is there a reason or is it just coincidence that four teams had? Yeah. I'm not really sure why so many teams had those loose wheels. I just noticed mine. not under did did everyone else catch theirs under caution so blaney was his under green yeah um i just noticed i was warming my tires up getting ready to you know get it ready for the restart and i'm like man sure feels like it's moving back there

like it just feels like something's you know out of whack and and i asked him i says hey are you sure everything's tight and he says all right let me check we have some doubt in here so they go to video oh How are they determining that? Yeah, each one of our changers has video that they can go back and watch. Like, what are they looking for? To see if the pin, so when you screw the nut on, it then goes past this like locking pin. And so you're trying to see if it's past that.

And then you're trying to see they draw lines on the gun itself to see, does the gun stop moving? So when it stops moving, it's obviously tight. so if it's still spinning as he's coming off then it's probably not tight a pit stop is a choreograph dance in a way right so if one guy like stumbles just a little bit right it throws off everything yeah the timing it's it it is a dance right it's you know people's foot is in the right position they're always working on uh you know the choreograph and how they're going to um hey i need to allow room for you and you know maybe your shoulder needs to stay tucked in a little more for the jackman they're always kind of fine-tuning where they need to be to give each other the

proper room which is why you'll see a very distinct body type on each one of the players is because you got to allow room for all of them to fit on you know on one side of the car especially when they're up against the wall if you have a big tire changer and you have a big carrier that just there's not enough room for them and so that's why you see that the changes are smaller tire carriers are typically the hybrids kind of in between a jackman and a changer and then the jack man's the biggest guy i mean you you got to be to all to play quarterback you got to be a certain body type change the tire right it's the same thing um like said you're you're plus 11 now going into talladega not where i'm sure you'd like to be after kansas but where you

Yeah, mentally. I'm on to Cincinnati. No, on to Alabama. So what, now what? Yeah. Yeah, you have no choice. I mean, it's where we're at. Certainly we thought we had a great opportunity to lock ourselves in, but we didn't.

Who did win the race, by the way, Ross Chastain, you got to give a lot of credit to them. They're, you know, even though they're out of the playoffs and didn't make it, they're continuing to perform at a high level. If you've noticed, he's been, you know, certainly the highest performing trackhouse car, usually when it comes to running position, speed, even through these playoffs, even though he's been eliminated and his teammate is in. So you've got to give them proper kudos for, you know, still fighting. You know, it's very easy to, when you not make the playoffs,

it's to just kind of, you know, ship it in for the final 10 races. but they're not. And I think they take a lot of pride in winning these races. Yeah, he's played spoiler in the playoffs last two years, won the championship race last year. Yeah, and you'll see this, you know, just in the next-gen era specifically, it's, you're not seeing, you're going to see more of this.

You're going to see more non-playoff winners win races, just simply because, you know, there's things that teams would do back in the day to make their playoff cars faster. I mean, I don't think there's any secret to that. But it's just, you know, the parity in NextGen itself. Like, you know, again, track position means so much in our sport now that all it takes is for you to hit the right strategy

and you to have some competent pace and you can win a race. And so I think that, you know, what we saw at the end, I think it was shaping up to be a great battle between five or six guys. but really seeing Cow Bush, someone that is really hungry for a win. Ross Chessain's always hungry for a win. It was going to be a great battle to the finish. But regardless, having that non-playoff winner is certainly something very gratifying for those teams to do it. And he's not racing for points so they can roll the dice.

Absolutely. That's the advantage that they're going to have the non-playoff drivers will have, is that they don't care about the stage points. You're going to see us at the Roval and all these racetracks selling out for stage points. Well, then what happens is all the cars that flip, they're just going to end up front. They're going to be the ones that are racing for a win, not the playoff cars. That's the downside. And you heard it that teams become more conservative in the playoffs.

I know it's the unpopular opinion, but it's totally true. Kyle Larson actually mentioned it on Dirty Mo Live, I believe it was. Yeah, Kansas won. We were all out. But he said, I feel as though people get more conservative in the playoffs because you have to be more aware of the points once you get in there. The fact that these non-playoff cars can do that and have the luxury of altering their strategy in that way, how does that affect the playoff cars and your strategy?

You know, for example, like at the Roval, right? If you know that all these non-playoff cars are going to take a strategy that's going to put them in the front and you may sell out for stage points, but then it's going to put you way back in the pack. Yeah, with no chance of getting back to the front. Right. How does that? You have to just weigh it out and say, well, is the stage points we're going to get

and have them now going to be, is it going to lock us in, or is it going to put us in a good position where we could finish 30th or worse? I think it happened to us last year, where we were like, we were running in the top five-ish, I think we qualified actually pretty decent,

if I remember correct. And at the time, he's like, all right, we're going to get stage points here. Or maybe, maybe I did, and running. I was running pretty good. And then since I stayed out and took the stage points, I restarted, you know, and I was running good lap times and very competitive. But then it puts you 30th and that's where, you know, but that locked us in. He's like, then all I needed was these

handful of points. Then we can go race. Well, I'm like, I can't race from 30th. What do you want me to do back there? You know, it's hard enough to pass. And you put these things on at the roval. I mean, passing is just extremely difficult. You started 9th at the row hole last year? Yeah, so I started pretty good and had pace, but it just didn't matter. Once the field flops on a road course, it's just you're not going to make it back up. We saw it at Watkins Glen, those cars that took the stage points that were in the playoffs, they all, they were all back there with me and from 20th to 30th.

So it's just part of the balance that you have to do and weigh your situation. to figure out, will I gain more points by finishing well, or will I gain more points by getting some stage points and finishing poorly? And it's just a math equation. Right. While people scoffed at your Atlanta strategy, I guess really didn't work out like you intended, but you were looking at it analytically and that I need to score X amount of points, right? Don't you kind of have to look at the playoffs in that way? Every team is doing that. Every team knows how many historical points they need to make to get to the next round and they're trying to figure out how to get it. They just don't have a podcast.

Talladega next week. What are we going to see there? Who knows? I mean, I think you're going to see everyone, you know, battling to try to get stage points and win the race. It's one where certainly you're going to have, you know, you're not going to have varying strategies, I don't think. You know, there's opportunity.

Maybe if there's a caution mid-stint to some will come take fuel, want to pack their fuel cell. and then there's going to be others that stay out and want to keep track position, but it's going to be a track position race, in my opinion. And so I just think you're going to want to race up towards the front, control the race. Your last five results there, 37. Thanks. Third. Thanks.

Third. 17th. Fifth and 18th. Yeah, it just, I, all those things that I learned from Dale Jr., Tony Stewart, back in the day, gone. All those techniques I learned how to pass and create runs and all that stuff, got to just stay in line with this deal. It's just all about numbers.

You got to stay in whatever line's got the most cars, and that line will go forward. Well, hopefully your line doesn't wreck. Amen. You're not in the line that wrecks. People don't cause any wrecks. Travis texts me throughout this show, and he's always, you know,

throwing a few ideas my way on what I can ask you. He says you can bring up pickleball if you want. Travis, I was six and one. What was your record, Travis? I was one and no against you. Yep, he had an all-star partner. He had a top-tier, top-flight partner.

You did too. I didn't play my best game. Someone said you choked. No. No. My partner said you choked. Yeah. I understand.

But I was undefeated till that last. match. The win loss record, I don't feel like there's anyone even close. I think I lost two. Over the last two weeks, there's no way anyone's even close to the win loss record. And we've played with everyone.

Yeah, but I agree. Travis got the best to me. That's what you want to say. Before the last game, Denny goes, I want Travis. I hear you. I didn't play well. It's on me. It was not on my partner. I will say. I was taught. I was fatigued. I told you guys.

It was humid as hell out there. I was at the end of, my back has got like five good games in it. And then I start to like not be able to bend over quite as good. And they put the ball where I had to try to tie my shoelaces and that just didn't work. We need to click that part of the show, Travis. Everyone on Twitter is always like, oh, it's never Denny's fault. He's never Denny's fault. He just said it.

It was his fault. No, it was unpickable. No doubt. It wasn't his partner's fault. Nope, no. I had a very competent partner. No, no problems there. This is why doubles pickle balls of sham, though.

Like go out there, 1V1, who can get line to line quicker? Who's more fit? Who can go edge to edge faster? It's an open invitation to you. Anytime you want to come out there, Jerry. I might have to next week. Okay. Last thing before we wrapped a show up, saw you were talking to Carl Edwards at pre-race.

Anything good there? I just told him whenever he's ready. Just let me know. Whenever you get that itch, I think he's publicly stated many times until they put horsepower back in these cars, I'm not doing it. Maybe that's what we need.

They'll do it for Carl. Are you going to go get Daniel Ricardo for a third car? Did you hear that? Not this just, it's too soon. Not good timing for me. Review here from Margar 83. I heard Denny on DBC, and because I really got to hear him, I started liking him. So I started listening to his podcast, and now I'm hooked.

My opinion has done a 180 on Hamlin, and I hope he wins this year's championship. I appreciate it. Thank you, Margo. Or Margar? 83. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate it. We heard a lot of that this week.

Kansas City fans, they were super nice. Lots of DH gear in the crowds. You notice that? Yeah. This Q&A was a lot more. So thank you all. Y'all were super nice to us. Sorry,

I didn't get you another Kansas victory, but we'll see you next week in Talldega. Be sure to rate, review, and follow wherever you listen to your podcasts, and click subscribe on our YouTube channel. We put up the full video every Monday. See you guys.