Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Kyle Busch: Being the Villain Is Fun...When You’re Winning

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Denny Hamlin and co-host Jared Allen welcome Kyle Busch to the show this week. They dive into everything from NASCAR news to family life, Playoff thoughts, and race-day moments. 2:45 NASCAR Championship headed to Homestead in 20266:06 What should the Playoff format be?15:15 Carson Hocevar wins in Trucks and flips the bird22:20 Just how dominant was Kyle Larson34:42 You never know what Kyle will say in his in-car audio39:20 How fatherhood has changed how the guys race44:30 How close Kyle was to racing in the Indy 50050:21 How many wins can both guys get before their career is over56:50 Denny taking the villain role from Kyle1:01:45 Denny paying off a bet with Kyle in pennies1:03:40 Kyle not happy with how his race ended Sunday1:11:30 How did Denny break his clutch1:18:34 What will Denny and Jordan name their baby boy Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Actions Detrimental merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.For more Actions Detrimental content: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental FanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So Brexton's due date was on the 22nd, right? And I was like, we are not having a Legano baby. I was that. I was like, is 18 an option? Is 18 an option? There's no way we can have Chastain, baby. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years.

Opinions from tonight's podcast, strictly biased. You're going to hear from my point of view. I'm a fighter. No, you are not. The spoils a victory for Jared Allen. He's got better luck to drink and drink to win. I know, you do. Two trophies missing from your collection.

A championship and the most popular driver. Someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure. Yes. And I've already said it. Hey guys, welcome to actions detrimental post-tech. No. Where were we? Kansas.

You just watched it. I know. We're not in Kansas anymore. Toto. Toto. You probably recognize that voice. Kyle Bush is here. Welcome, Kyle Busch.

Yay, thank you. Golf clap. Are you on the DAP tour or something? Come here to get your points. That's right. That's a good idea. Where are you at on standings? Are you getting DAP for this every week?

I retired. No? You don't even turn them in anymore? I, well, just so you know, you get full credit for coming here. I get four points. Total. Really? it's bad oh that's yeah that's BS

Lugano gets all his points though for his stuff every week right if you have 100,000 listeners apparently it doesn't do much for the sport each and every week so um anyway that's why I don't have mine but Denny I'll just come on yours yep well thank you for coming on um Kyle Busch is the driver number eight for RCR um my co-host Mr. Jared here Jared Allen moves uh to the middle slot red vest 311 Is this normally you over here? It is. All right.

Thanks for the seat. Well, where do we start for the weekend here at Kansas? I don't know. Do we want to talk about Kansas or is there other things that you got on your mind? We just kind of wing it around here. It's just FYI. You're supposed to be the one with the list. I'm the guest.

I'm not bringing the list. How often do I go by the list? Not much, right? I just kind of browse it, look at it and, you know, figure out what to do from there. but yeah we can talk a little bit about Kansas that's generally what we do here we don't we don't get too much in depth on the other stuff but we can this week any in the off track stuff in 2026 the championship is moving back to homestead and Kyle bravo on the the back to the future social bit that was really good well I give the bravo to the

the directive team there on that, the creative team on that and being able to come up the idea for that. So originally, when I saw the script, I'm like, I was reading it and I'm like, what the hell is this? Like, I don't really get it. And then the word Dorian popped in there. And I'm like, is this a back to the future thing? Like, and then I started to put my mind in the sense of like, okay, we're doing a back to the future. I'm like, okay, this could work. I get it, you know, because I was wondering, like, talking about Joey's third championship and going to prevent that and all this. I'm like, what are we doing? And then I, yeah, so. So did y'all, do I end up ever winning a championship?

or not, or do you? I don't know. I thought y'all were the ones that went to the future. No, so, so the video was shot as if it was the day of the championship race in 2019. Oh. And then we came back in today, like May of 2025. Yeah. So no, Denny, you have not won a championship from 2019 to 2025.

You know, people ask all the time, what was my best opportunity? opportunity to win one. I thought that day was the one. I thought 19 was the one. That was when we put a garbage bag size piece of tape on the front of the car. You put a pad. We did. It was that big. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was running second to you at the time. And I was, you know, I usually just try to keep a little in reserve for the end of the race. And I was like, I think I can get them. You know, but who knows how that it all played out but we man it was uh was that your was that your second that was two yeah yeah so just that was uh that was definitely one that got away um but you know you just never know with these things it's so tough and i'm i'm glad to see it back at home said i think that phoenix you know

phoenix is a great um venue at the way they upgraded the facilities the fan interaction the fan zone in there is fantastic. They spent money on the facility to upgrade it to make it up to championship type standards. The town always supports us. We go there, it's still a crowd. It doesn't matter for it's spring or the fall championship race. Phoenix fans show out for us, which is why they deserve to have the championship race for so long. And now, if you just watch the race from 8th on back, that's the championship race. It's not bad. It's not bad. When you get the leader out front, it's just like, it lights out. I do think though with the option

tire, like we were, it just didn't get to play out that well in the spring where you didn't have to run long enough on the set of tires. Like a caution came out or something happened that right before everyone was about to take a shit on the racetrack

that yellow came out. Yes. So I think it's going to be significantly better with the red tire or whatever it is that we're going to probably run in the championship race. But is there, is there, what do you feel is an ideal championship format? I know that's part of a discussion going on right now.

Yeah. I've heard a lot of different variances. I kind of think the three or four race one is pretty cool. But if you have one bad race in those three or four races, then you automatically sort of eliminate yourself unless somebody else eliminates their self by having a bad race. you know so I don't know like I always kind of hated the the 10 race thing because there was so many how many times did you or I have a bad race or two in that 10 race format and then your fifth in points you know what I mean like you don't have the opportunity to win it because Jimmy perfects

it you know and he's good all the way through it didn't he didn't have many like just bad races like 30th or worse where you crash out you know even Talladegas he'd figure out how to finish yeah Yeah, yeah. But like the, when they started having the, the three race ones where it was like, okay, you can point your way through if you want, if you're good enough and you can win and automatically put your way through and it resets each time and it resets with the points that you have from the whole year because you've been strong the whole year, I felt like that was the most fair system that we've had.

But it coming down to a one race take all moment, I don't know. I mean, I don't mind it. I don't know how to make it better. I do still sort of enjoy the, I guess maybe I'm just a purist of NASCAR and having the points go all the way throughout. So I still kind of enjoy that and would kind of be like, man, it'd be cool to see that again. But when you get guys that go on runs and pull up the points, then it's like, that would look ugly. Yeah, I mean, it has a chance to go either way. but I mean there's some championship.

The Super Bowl this last year was over at the end of the first quarter, right? It just kind of was a blowout really early. I think there's a mix to be had there. I believe, you know, that I think that I'm okay with the elimination every three races as long as those who perform well during the regular season have a far enough jump and head start. So, you know, in other words, Kyle Larson this weekend, getting just five bonus points for winning the race, that's only five positions in one stage

of one race in one round. I think that if you increased the amount of bonus points, I just said, you know, in my head, well, if you just doubled everything. So whatever bonus points, whether or so, if you win a stage, it's two, not one. If you win a race, it's 10, not five. It then really does make it rewarding to go out there and perform and get bonus points during the regular season, and it makes it harder for our favorites to get eliminated early in, and, you know, especially with the racetracks that we've put in the playoffs.

I mean, you put, you know, again, they're not in this year, but we had two super speedways last year. Like, that's just, it's just, it was a game of luck a little bit. Luck's always been a part of our sport, but the schedule played into that. And then next thing you know, there's just not enough head start, I think, for the guys that they go out and perform well. And then if you eliminate, my thought is if you do have an elimination, first of all I think it should be 12, not 16.

I think that will eliminate the guy in 33rd that's going to win a race, making it end of the playoffs. I also believe that once you get eliminated, you should go back to whatever points of position you were, or where you should be. I don't necessarily believe that one... They should be locked in. You should be locked into now the top 16 because you...

Yeah, so Harrison Burton, who should have finished 30th in points, finished 16th in points, just because he was locked into the playoffs. Yeah, so it should... It shouldn't... One race shouldn't just... Save your season. Be bigger than the other 35 that you participated in, if that makes any sense. So I believe, thinking about it, if you doubled the bonus points,

created 12 drivers. I think that that's about how many winners you have. Also, winning doesn't necessarily lock you in. If there's 13 winners, you better be high enough in points to be the 12th winner, not the 13th winner, if that makes any sense. Once you get eliminated, you go back in the pool of points with everyone else.

And then not resetting the points that you've accumulated, like if you continue to make it, Right. So the top, after the first round, there's nine drivers, not 12. Whatever points they accumulate in the first round, why does it keep getting reset, reset, reset? Like, you don't keep resetting the score and anything else. So why can't they just keep where they are? So, you know, and then you just keep chopping off that bottom four every three races or whatever it might be. Or, you know, if it's 12 drivers, maybe it's only three drivers that get eliminated each round.

but just keep chopping off the bottom three to where it is essentially the original chase format where it's 10 weeks except for the final round, which I hope would be a championship round of three races. I agree with you that... Are you still a win and you move on guy? No.

But I think that winning would pay so many points that it'll jump you back in it. It really jumps you back up there. So you just want to chop off the bottom. Just keep chopping off the bottom. Right? Don't reset the points every round. Just keep chopping off the bottom and whoever's there is there. That's what we should do at the All-Star Race.

Yeah, I like that. Whoever's the last one or two, every five laps. Hey, if you're last, you're out. That'd be pretty awesome, actually. Why do we need more gimmicks? Can we move on? We don't. We don't.

I just, it's tough because you want to create the fairest format, but you do need to make it exciting. I know the TV has said many times that they just, you know, The elimination works for them. I'm just, you know, can you pay enough, can you make winning pay enough points to where it's, I don't know, 70 points for a win? You know, regular season. So it really moves you up and really rewards you, but it doesn't lock you into, you know, it doesn't guarantee you anything. It's a big day for you.

Jared, where do you stand? I kind of agree with that. I don't necessarily like the full season points. like you had mentioned being a purist just because you look at the standings now, right? Like you blow an engine last week, transmission goes out and you need a Hail Mary to have any chance of catching Larson

if that was the point format. Yeah, but there's still... There's 25 races to go. A lot of weeks left. He's going to wreck himself somewhere. Well, I don't know. The points format as it is keeps it interesting. He could also race himself differently.

He can Matt Kenseth it now, the rest of the year, and just literally fifth to tenth it all the time and win the thing. So people race differently in different situations. It doesn't matter what point scenario thing you have. People will say, well, Jeff Gordon would be a five-time champion or a six-time champion or whatever if it was the old system. It's like, no, because people race differently in each system that they're giving in.

Each round, people will race differently in each round. Like, I can't tell you how many times there were with me and Adam where it was like, hey, we just need this many points. That's all we're going for. It doesn't matter. We don't have to overextend our neck in order to go out there. to win a race. We're not flashy.

Like, win and move on in the next round, like, unless you're a dominant guy, and it's a race that you, it's like, yeah, okay, well, I'm not just going to back up to not win. Like, let's go get it, take it and go on. Yep. I think there should be just two resets,

one at the beginning of the playoff, and then one for the championship three or four, whatever it might be for those last three races. Then they race it out. But then everybody else goes, you know, once you're eliminated from the playoffs, you're not part of that championship three or four. So is there a speedway race in the last three?

No. No. Why not? Just too much by chance. We race six speedway races. You race six speedway races? You race six road course races. You race, what, eight intermediates?

I tell you what, if they give us a championship round, fine. You know what I mean? Like, as long as it's not the one race thing, I think that, sure, if you're going to... Three races. Oh, God, it's still... Three races. Daytona kicks it off. I mean, in this car, only one car wrecks out of a Super Speedway anymore.

So like, Daytona, Texas Homestead to finish the season. I just, you know, Vegas is good. Kansas is good. Could be snowing at Kansas. No way. Average temperature is 58 degrees. Could. Yeah.

I don't know. Well, speaking of Kansas. Yeah, speaking in Kansas. We did have some racing this weekend. Carson Hostbar won the trucks He won What do we feel about that race? Man, he ran

The final lap was impressive Because he ran it with one hand He had one hand out the window One hand on the wheel Fent off lane rigs It was an impressive win I thought that Carson Showed a lot of speed

obviously was dominant the last half of the race. But Lane Riggs was running him down so quickly. He was only dominant, though, because the 11 fell out. The 11 has had issues. The 11 has had execution issues. Execution issues, for sure. They've had mechanicals on another level. It's seemingly, I mean, he still came back to, I think, to finish fourth or fifth,

even when he got a penalty with 25 to go. Yeah. So they are extremely fast. Now, Corey got his shot on Sunday as well. Finished 13th, great finish for him. But, yeah, the 11th is in its own zip code in the truck series. But Carson Hosefar goes down to the trucks. Gets a win.

Do you guys take issue with that, him flipping off lane rakes across the finish line? You don't like it. Yeah, it's just, someone told me early on just the finger really just triggers. It's just a. Like I gave Bowman the... You gave the what the hell. Yeah, the... I give a few what the hells during the race.

Yeah. If I could have passed Bubba, Bubba would have got a what the hell. Like, what... What are you doing? Yeah, I gave the what the hell because it's like I just ran you down from a straightaway in like 10 laps. I... We never make contact. He never makes contact with anything.

We just looked on HBO. I don't know what he was... I couldn't, for the life of me. I got on social media after the... race and it says Alex is pissed at the 11 for running them in the fence and I was like, what? What is he talking about?

And so I'm looking on SMT, the whole plane right home like, I never even got close to this guy. What is he talking about? And we just checked HBO Max and Jared, do you see any, I mean, I didn't.

Did he ever make contact with anything? It didn't appear so. It didn't even appear that he hit the wall. that's what he's saying that's contact yeah it didn't visibly look like it but i mean i'm sure he did maybe it's maybe someone in the 48 camp can send me a clip of me running him somewhere but again it never even was on my radar from the entire race and so shocking to me but he did say after the race he would he woke up on the wrong side of the bed he was grumpy um not really sure but but anywho,

we were, I gave him the what the hell because we were, you know, running side by side, I just ran them down from forever back. And it's like,

at that point, these cars are so draggy. You run down the straightaway, just, oh my God. You lose half a second of lap, doing it. And if you do it for three straight laps,

so you know, the guy he was battling and when I caught him is gone. Because, you know, it's like you want to, you want to hang, hang on my quarter panel.

So it's like, I'm guilty of that with the 11 through the weekend. I think it was the start of the second stage. Like, I had just come off my best run of the race. Like, I'm hauling ass.

Feel good. Drove from 35th to 13th. Like, I got this. You know, we're, we're going to keep going forward. We start the second stage. And Danny and I are running side by side for three laps.

And I'm like, if I could just clear this guy, like get off my door. But you weren't going to clear me because I was faster than you were. I cleared you, though. I cleared you though. I cleared you for a lap.

And I was still too tight And I didn't catch the next guy. So then I was like, all right, I think I'll let him go now. That's the thing with these cars that, holy cow, you can just, the momentum is such a big deal. You just can't spend so much time running side by side. Now, at that time, we were, it was right after a restart. So it was, we were all kind of in traffic. Everyone's battling for their position.

Yeah, battling for their position. It wasn't single file. You run me down from a straightaway, no. And I think it's, I, I let you go. about 20 laps later. I don't think I saw you again. Yeah, we were really fast. It just never got to show it because we had no clutch.

But I think that I don't have many issues with people racing hard on restarts because it is so important. You let me go. Now you open up yourself to, well, who's right behind me? Right. Right. And so I think that there's times and places for that stuff. And I think that even though NextGen racing and racing in general has changed since me and you back in the day where people let each other. go all the time. It's not like that now, but there is still a time and place for it, I think,

in next gen error, such as a mile and a half like Kansas where the field spread gets so big that if you come and run me down, if I choose to just do everything I can to hold you up, it's hurting myself in the long run. And so that's what happened to me in the 23. There was a point in the race. I ran him down from half a straight away, and then I got underneath them, and then he pulled down to kind of arrow block and then I lost 10 car lengths. I ran them back down again. I went high. He let it drift up into the high groove. Arrow blocked me. He lost 10 car lengths. And I was like, can he please just let me go? Like we're losing time. We are bleeding time from the guys in front of us. Like I'm faster. Just please. It's very interesting for me to see people that are willing to sacrifice

their own lap time just to mirror drive to hold off the one position. Right. But the problem is is they are letting others come into the mix. Right. Right. And so if the race goes green, you're hurting yourself along. Now you're going to have to defend instead of, okay, eight, go on by. Now I'm going to go back to optimizing my lap time, doing everything I can to run minimum ET this run.

Instead, you're slowing yourself down and allowing others now. You open yourself up to losing more positions. I never, especially because we had a green flag cycle coming. Like I finally pitted, because I was like, guys, I'm stuck behind them. If I get slower than the 50s, you got to pit me because we've never been slower than the 50s. Boom, I hit a 65, two laps later, we pit.

Yeah. It's, you know, everyone's got a different philosophy for it. And I never saw him again. He was behind me. Yeah, they were not good. The 2311 cars, I'm not really sure what's going on at Kansas, but they've lost their mojo. Hey, it's Dale Jr. Did you know that we've got brand new merch from our Star Stripes?

beers collection available now. We've got tanks, teas, beach towels, and more just in time for summer. Check it all out at shop.dirtymodea.com. I feel, you know, like it was a Larson was a very, very good car. Dominant car? I don't know. It seemed like he had some long run issues. I didn't, you know, it didn't really play out that much.

How would you feel about the left side tire change during this race? we went to a little bit softer left side tire so it creates you know we're trying to create more tire fall off I didn't really see it until you know 40 laps I did see it but at 40 laps it took 40 laps there was definitely cars that you know many times we ran over 40 laps on a set of tires though not much twice yeah the last run of the race

yep and then somewhere in the second stage maybe we ran right at 40 laps yep that was it it's because of the stages it seems like everyone's just kind of breaking these things up yes you know if the stage is 80 laps. You're going to run. They're going to run 35 or 40. And the tire falls off at 40.

Yeah. So the optimum thing to do is to just split it in half. Yeah. So it's just, I believe that the tire combination is absolutely better. It's just we don't have enough fuel or the stints are just too short to not make us have to run longer than what we are scheduled to run. Same thing like we talked about before. It's the stage cautions.

You know when the stage cautions are going to come. Yeah. Like if it, instead of stages being predictable, if it was, okay, hey, Kansas, for instance, we had a caution, what, lap eight? Yep. Let's say the caution's lap 15. Who cares? Cautions at lap 15. Well, we know the caution's coming at 80 right now today, correct?

Well, instead, why don't we make it 75 green flag laps, consecutive green flag laps? You have to go 75 consecutive green flag laps. You know, does that ever change? So you're saying that the stages are they move based off of Green Flag running. You can pay points if you want to pay points on a lap 80 number, but a caution isn't going to fall until you go. And it changes per track, right? So like Speedway racing. Speedway racing would be perfect for this.

The floating yellow, the floating. It's kind of like the truck series had that time clock thing. They did. Yeah. So, I mean, we got rid of that, so I don't know. but it's the consecutive lap thing for me. Like, why are we going back green at a Texas or anywhere for a two-lap shootout to end a stage? Why do we have to do that?

Yeah, we just spent 20 minutes under caution. We just spent 20 minutes under yellow. So now we're going to spend another 20 minutes under yellow. Why don't we just run 75 consecutive green here, or 80 or 90 or whatever it needs to be? You know, it changes per track that you go to. That's a thought. It's definitely a thought for sure. It's a short track rule.

That's what short tracks do. That's what late model racers do. It's almost like a promoter's yellow, only you don't know necessarily when it's coming. It could run. Well, it varies the strategies then, right? Like, hey, I got 15 laps on my tires. Do I stay out?

And am I just going to split the next 75 laps in half? Or do I pit now? And am I going to run it all the way out? I got news for you guys. All-Star race has a promoter's yellow. Well, there's no doubt that's coming if there is no natural. I guess if there's a natural yellow after lap 200, they can't throw it. I think that's the rule.

If there's a natural yellow between lap 200 and 225, there will not be a promoter's yellow. So at lap 200, we all need to figure out who we're going to run into. It's going to be payback central. If I'm running 12th and I've got no shot to win and there's a few select drivers that are in front of me, I am going to take care of Marcus's yellow. I'll make sure I'm clear of that. Denny, I'm on your Twitter account. You voted no to Jeff's was Kansas a good race pool.

That's a mistake. You voted no. Well, did you see my race? I said yes. I would say yes again. Of course, Kansas was a good race. I'm just telling you it was a good race. How many passes for the lead were they're under green?

You know, that's not Larson's fault. It's all of our faults. It really is. Every contender that was even close stepped on their dick. I don't know what else to say about it. It's just, you know, it's not his fault that we all can't execute. You know, I think that even when he lost the lead,

he became pedestrian, just like he was at Texas. I caution this. I think he's less dominant than what he's been. in the years past. I think he's fast, but I think he can be had in the sense of he's doing a really good job at qualifying well, executing, not making mistakes, and not putting himself in the middle of the pack. When he gets in the middle of the pack, I haven't seen the speed that I've seen them have before. I just, I don't know. Even with no clutch, I was like confident that, you know, I could get them.

And so, I don't know. I thought that like the nine, I guess, ran them down big time at the end of stage two. Caution came out. It's kind of saved them. But, I mean, you got to give them their due, right? They're doing everything right. And they're fast.

I don't think there's anyone faster in the field. But I just don't, I think the stats are showing a more dominant race than what it actually was, if that makes any sense at all, it probably doesn't. No, it does, because if you watch the race, all of his contenders fell out. Like, said, Chase passed him, and then Brad passed him.

Brad blows a tire. He's out of the race. Chase's up on pit road. He's out of the race. Byron was fast early in the race. He hits the wall. He's out of the race. You don't have a clutch.

Yeah, I agree. It's, um... Not that Kyle's not good, but... No, no, no. We're definitely giving a... Many contenders. But yeah, I just don't, I know there's an outcry of like, you know, he's stinking up shows and things like that, but it's not his fault. That's not his fault.

It's not his fault. I don't think we should fault them for that. You got to give them their due for executing like they're supposed to and nobody else is doing it. And so that's, you know, he's winning him in a very dominant fashion statistics-wise. but you know who knows right maybe he's got more lap time left in the bank and if someone goes up there and actually challenges him he'll step on the pedal and embarrass all of us we don't know because it's just it's not happening quite yet the only or do what drivers do in these next gen cars when they try harder and and wreck yeah i i personally watched you at texas i was in the bus i got to watch most of the race from the bus i thought at the moment i don't know it was like a hundred to go or maybe less, you are hauling ass. We were fast, yeah. But at that point where you like, okay, 90% is okay, like 90% is enough speed to go up here

and pass all these people? Or were you just balls out? I'm going all the way. We had that yellow. We all got tires. The run before that was my best run. I was driving forward, passing guys. So I'm like, okay, cars really good called no changes.

Like, leave it alone. Let's go, right? and so we go back out and we restart third we're running third larson's leading and then the 71 right yeah down yeah and so at that time i'm watching lap times you were significantly faster than anyone right well we had just taken the green so we were only like three laps in on that set of tires on that green so like air pressures probably aren't up yet you know larsin for some reason was stumbling pretty bad through three and four like he was slow like he actually backed up the 71 and back the 71 and back

the 71 into me. That's what I'm saying about the five is that he didn't even pull away from the pack. Right. And so that's when I was like, okay, he's vulnerable right now. Like, let's go get it. So like, that was my mindset. That was my thought. So then I roll into three kind of high to get out of the wake of the 71 and I'm mad at it and I drive over the bump wide open and bust it. You know, so I even told my guys, you know, during the race, they're like, what can we help you with? And I'm like, I can't be wide open over the bump. Like, I have to wait until I get over the bump to finish the throttle like that is my weakness. Are you on the side of fix the bump or leave it and then you play the balance with your setup?

Are we running the same cars next time we go back? I would venture to say so. Fix the bump. Yeah. My only concern with fixing the bump. The old cars would take care of the bump, fine. My only concern with fixing the bump is that then it would let us lock our cars down so much that passing would be more difficult because right now.

you have a variance of some cars go I can only I can only use a lane and a half and three and four that's true if you fix that I can use two two and a half lanes over there yeah the extent because the higher you get the worst that bump is that's right right and I busted your ass over it last year

I did absolutely so so how many cars over the last two or three years have done that I think I've done it two of the last four years truthfully I've done it two of the last four years I did it in the 18 car yeah so I think I think you're right I think it does narrow the track up, especially in three and four.

Because the first groove and then half a car width up more is smooth. It's okay. You put yourself four tires outside of that bottom lane and you're feeling it. You want to put your right sides above that first hash mark and it is uncontrollable. How about we just get rid of the rear limiters and that way we don't ride on our damn shocks? I mean, I've preached on. underbodies. Just get rid of the underbodies.

I agree with you. Thank you. Thank you. I've said to them like, we've got to have more overbody, less underbody. Because right now we're, you are the way that we are now five years ago. I have meetings.

I have recorded meetings of Denny Hamlin saying we need more underbody error. On our cars. Yeah. Yeah. I want him for our race cars, but I don't want everyone to have it. Now, I just feel as though we can't manipulate each other anymore in the Cup series, right?

You get up behind someone in Xfinity or, even truck like you can just the rear guy washes out oh yeah it's our it's our fault yeah so it's now it's just the cars are so locked down because they'll because of the way we're running them and then it causes these big push moments because we got our nose flying up in the air i just wish we would put more overbody less underbody and allow the second place person to manipulate the leader but right now the leader has all the control of your lap time like you just said with the 23 he could trolled your lap time because he could just put his car right in front of you and stop you.

I mean, how long we got? I mean, we can get into this. But like the 22 did that to the four car with with the Gen 6 at Kansas that time. So I mean, it's going to happen regardless, right? Yes. It's going to happen regardless. Er is error. You know, so like is there a fix for it? No, there's not a fix for it. But I feel like with what we're racing right now, there is a greater detriment to the cars behind. Yes. Now, greater. I didn't say the last one was better. This one is just greater.

It's a greater defensive tool than what the old car was. Yeah, and going back to Texas, that's where the Xfinity cars, I think, put on such a great show there. They can move up higher than what we can in three and four. And, you know, it's almost like a car width or more that they're, I mean, they're way up there. It's just because they have some suspension that they can give on, where us were right on the edge of just, you know, spike in the rear.

and losing it. Well, what were you saying, Jared? I was just going to comment that you guys both seem to really love this car. I love my job. You say that, which is one of my favorite Cowbush rants. You were driving the 18, and it was at Charlotte. I think you quit at lap 50, 100, 150, 250, like, you're just like, that's it, Joe, I retire. I'm done.

I don't remember that one. I remember a few others. I remember a few others, but. It was a big one. But here in the last few years, Kyle, I don't even recognize you anymore. You're a different guy. What's going on? They have a disconnect on the box for my radio button.

So they'll only let me talk when they know it's pertinent. I got asked by a driver during our horse cattle around the racetrack. it was it was someone that has a difficult teammate and they says have you ever had a difficult teammate and i said not really and i thought for about 10 seconds i was like Kyle's difficult at times but he was always fair that was the that was the one thing i would say is that on the racetrack i think you were fair than maybe any teammate that i've ever had on the racetrack. The difficult part was sometimes we didn't see things eye to eye, right? The All-Star race for an example, right? When I kind of washed up in turns one and two,

which is very normal protocol in today's world. You next gen me. I did. I next gened you. I took away your air. But I just, yeah, I think that sometimes we didn't see things the same. And I think I always kind of set a very low expectation of my teammates for myself that like you know i i've i've been selfish and super speedways like i you know it's hey we're going to work together and then you know me i'm just going to go do my own thing no i always believed in the hey let's work together no no no no no this allowed this that's the green flag i want to know how that helps me so i think that It's been pretty amazing, though, actually, over the last few years. And I just got to know you a little bit off the racetrack during our time at JGR,

but very, very similar to where sometimes you get along with someone better when you're not teammates. And we flew together at Talladega. And, I mean, Kyle was getting up. Hey, you guys need a water, need anything? I was just like, who is this guy? I swear, he's, he's, he's, he's a nice fellow now. But, training's going well. Do they have you in classes?

Yeah. But it seems like, you know, fatherhood will do that stuff to you as well. I mean, I know particularly, and I can only speak to my case that, um, having smaller kids and, you know, you got babies and things like that now. and it's like, you just, things are different, right? You see your peaks and valleys just aren't as high and low, right? You just kind of live in a really happy spot there. I think a lot of it too is like Brexton racing. Be glad you don't have kids racing.

Don't, don't. Not yet. Just don't do it. Not yet. He's already got a logo for the future. That is not true. Don't even lie. That is a boldly-faced lie.

I believe it. Brexton's got a logo. Who do you think came up with his logo? I did. I was like, this can be badass, right? So anyway, I think Brexton being a racer and racing and my message is that I'm trying to deliver to him, I'm now taking more sense in of understanding, right?

So it's like, I can't do something this way when I'm trying to teach him that way. So like I need to do that and that. So it makes more sense that I'm living by my word, you know? Yeah, and I think that that's what I've learned over the 20 years of doing this, is that, you know, when I talk to younger drivers, I'm not, yes, you can bring up 20 clips of me doing the exact opposite that I'm trying to tell you to do, but it's because I've learned from

my mistakes in that instance. I know what I did wrong in retrospect. In the moment, I didn't see it that way or whatever, but you just learn over time, you know, what's the right way, what's the wrong way. and you definitely try to lead by example for sure. Now that Brexton is coming into his own in racing, does he ever like humble you? Like you teach him something and then maybe you don't do that same thing. You're like, Dad, you know, you told me to do X and Y. You didn't do that.

Sometimes. I mean, sometimes it comes down to like on track racing and things like that. He's like, well, why didn't you enter high and exit low and cross that guy over or something like that? There was one time the Bristol Dirt Race, the last time that we ran there, we were running the heat race and I was running second. to Bubba. And we're all running on the bottom because the track was still pretty gripped up.

And so I thought to myself, while I'm running there, I'm like, I'm not making any ground here on Bubba. If I'm a driver coach, oh, what would Brexton say? If I got to go back to the bus, Brexton's going to ask me, why didn't I run the high side? So literally, I spent two laps running the high side and probably lost about two feet. So then I came back down to the bottom. Luckily, I didn't lose a spot. But, you know, after the race was over, he was like, yeah, I saw you tried to high side. I'm like, I did that just for you to prove that it wasn't going to work or that it wasn't time for that line to work yet. And so, you know, there's definitely those moments where you're, you, the driver coach and me for him is now sort of coming out for me and myself where like,

I try to start thinking through and processing a little differently than I used to. What would be, what's your, if you could have things perfect and it, you know, and Brexton continues to say over the next five years, I want to, is the goal to be a NASCAR driver? Is that that one? That's what his, yeah, that's his goal. So if that goal continues to be a goal of his, in the next five years, what do you, well, he's, he's, how was he? He's turning 10 this week. Okay. All right, maybe, let's say, let's call it 10 years. What is the idea, like, timing and series that you would like to see him have opportunities in for the next 10 years? years to get to that goal. Well, not ARCA, because that's a complete waste of time.

Did you hear it? Obviously, you read my quote. So what do you think is the right path? I don't think there is a right path. Obviously, you're heavy in dirt right now. Yeah, but he's getting more into the legend car right now as well, too. So he turns 10. He can't race a legend car until he turns 10. So that's this week. So he'll actually race his legend car debut next week at Hickory. But there's a bunch of a lot more race track. around our area for Legends cars, pavement racing, legend cars, then there are the dirt micro world. Like the dirt micro world, there's like two within four hours of here. Oh, wow.

You know what I mean? So we've got to go to Illinois or Indiana or Ohio or Tulsa or somewhere. So it's like 10 hours is like your nearest micro track, right? But for KBM, like KBM still exists. It's just the Legends cars, the micros, the Bandoleros, like it's just that stuff that I'll keep doing with Brex. But the next level, so when he turns 12, it'll be late model stuff. So getting them into dirt late models, getting them into pavement late models. I'd like to keep him on both, just learning that sense of all the different vehicles that you can drive.

Don't stay in anything too long that then you learn those bad habits that keeps you good at that, that doesn't allow you to keep your mind open and fresh to new things. So then, you know, when he turns 12, and then when he turns 13 or 14, I believe he's, he's, he's, he's, he's He's then old enough for like the super's super late models or like the world of outlaw late model tour or the Lucas Oil late model tour for the dirt world. And then. So you envision keeping him on dirt, really? Pavement and dirt. Payment and dirt.

Pavement and dirt. What's wide dirt? Is it to learn car control first? I just look at Kyle. Okay. Tiny Kyle. Obviously the things that he can do on dirt any given time. Like he can go run, he can go run NASCAR on Sunday and go run a sprint car on Monday and winning it.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that that's what Larson's gift is, right, is being able to adapt to a, whatever the machine is. And my parents always used to say that when I was younger and I'd move to a different, you know, I'll go from the four cylinder mini stocks to the late models to, you know, whatever it might be. They're like, it's just a different machine. You have to figure out, you know, racing is racing. Right. And you have to figure out what this, how to make sports.

speed with this machine and then you have to learn the techniques that it takes at at this given track to make speed with the machine and so it's whoever can adapt those are your really really good drivers and I think that that's where larsen excels and why he probably has an argument when it comes to you know world's best driver is because his versatility uh in multiple machines on any given day. You could put him in something he's probably never been in before, and he'll figure out really, really quickly how to make speed-in-in-ing. I think he did that at Indy last year. I mean, he was fast at Indy. I think they had issues with strategy or something last year, if I recall correctly. So he wasn't able to show his full potential, but give him that event over again,

which we're going to see this month. Yeah, I think he'll understand traffic better, things like that. And, I mean, do you feel like your opportunity, to do the double's closing or I know you've talked about it a little bit. I would have loved to have done it. I mean, how old was your brother when he did it? I don't know. That's a great question. When did Kurt do it?

Look it up. Kurt Busch Indy 500. I'm sure it'll tell you a year. So anyways, I had an opportunity done, sealed, sign, delivered. 14. He did it in 14? Yeah, so 10 years ago. 10 years ago.

So he's turning 44, so he was 34. Or he's turning 47, so he was 37. Anyways, 2017. I had it. It was all done. Eminem's was going to do it. Wow. Guess who said no? Joe Gibbs.

Yeah. Yep. Chevrolet was okay with it. Toyota was okay with it. Eminem's was paying for it. I had a I had a 24-hour race deal that I got asked to do

and I was actually, I was like, I want to do it. And they just, they didn't want me to do that. It was, you know, they can't control the, the way they saw, we can't control the cars.

We don't know how safety are. Who are you going to drive for? I don't even remember who it was. Was it the Lexus program? No, it was before that. It was a little, like a year or two before that. Gosh, I don't look it up. Because I ran the 24.

Like, I never, nobody ever balked an eye at that. I know. I forget who it was with. But they actually went to the person's shop and they're like, yeah, I don't know. Just if you don't have to do it, don't. do it. And it was like, you know, at that time, I'm not going to... You know what the greatest sense of the 24-hour thing was for me? Was those guys that do it all the time. So like Jack Hawksworth was my teammate. And then Shane,

SVG, was actually in the team car. And me being able to get up to speed through practice, I was probably two, three-tenths off of those guys. But then in the race, I was able to capitalize. And like, I got new tires and I got optimum track time and all that, clean air, everything. And I was able to run right the same lap times as their fast lap time. So that to me gave me the sense of like, okay, I can do this world as well too if I really wanted to. So like that gives that right there sort of gave me that Indy 500 itch even harder of like give me the time and give me some opportunity and some racecraft with with these machines as you're saying. And I feel like I can figure it out and I'll get to it. Is that what ranks like highest on your bucket list to do list in racing?

Because you've done everything else. No, yeah. That would be. I mean, besides winning the Daytona 5th record. like that's the highest, but then doing, yeah, the Indy 500 would certainly be that. If an opportunity came up, Richard probably wouldn't have any issue in it. No, I had it signed sealed and delivered again. Oh, and then Larson took it.

Oh, son of a gun. Yes. I won't release the sponsor, but I had a sponsor talking to Zach Brown. The deal was done, and we were about ready to go to contract. And Zach Brown was like, well, hey, told the sponsor, he was like, hey, I need you to buy the car. And the sponsor was like, why do I want to buy the car? I don't want to buy the car. I want to sponsor the car. I'm sponsoring Kyle. He's going to drive the car.

I don't want to buy the car. They want you to do the capital investment as well. In case he wrecks the tub, we want you to buy the tub. Well, why don't you just put a crash clause or something in there then? I don't know. Well, it wasn't two weeks later that then I'm talking to this sponsor guy. And he was like, yeah, I guess we're too late anyways now that the opportunity is closed because Larson got it. And I'm like, what do you mean?

Larson got it. And then I found out Larson signed a two-year deal, and we were only going to do a one-year deal. I got you. So if you find a sponsor, can you more or less just find a team at that point? Yeah, but do you want to race for Gibbs, Hendrick and Penske? Or do you want to race for, I don't know.

Competitively. Yeah. Or do you want to race for work better than I do? Is there like four teams that really can compete for a win at Indy? There's one. Yeah. Penske. So you don't think, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I know Penske's like definitely the top dogs, right? Penske's the top dog. And then arrows obviously become really good. So the McLaren guys have done a good job. They're a lot faster. ECR, I would argue that they, two, three years ago, they were a team to go there. They would always be on the front row. You know, they always had the speed.

Yeah, you're going to want to get in a car, Jared, that like, you know has, is the capable. But it's not just the car either because it's coming down. pit road for pit stops too. You know what I mean? Like you can't just sit here and lose a second on pit road. Like you're, you're going to throw yourself out there too. That's why we were talking to Roger.

The sponsor is close with Roger and we were talking to Roger about doing it. He's like, I can't get you the right people to be able to do another car. As much as Roger Penske and it looks like they have all their guns in a row. Do they have a limit of how many cars they can have? I don't think so. No. So anyway,

yeah. So it's more than just, here's the sponsor. Here's the money. Yeah. You need people to. Yeah. what about on the cup side any

Daytona 500 you haven't I mean obviously the 500 I guess that was an easy one right yeah that I haven't one that I haven't one

that you would feel complete I mean there's no reason why you wouldn't feel complete you got 200 and how many I don't even know 230 plus it's an absurd amount yeah

Daytona 500 obviously that would that would sort of just solidify I don't know that it would even solidify everything if I were to retire yesterday. I don't

know that that means anything. So, um, but that, that to me, you know, would love to have that trophy and accolade and checkbox. Who's, who's next on the win list that, you know, you go on a run? Like, who could, who could catch? I think it's nine for Earnhardt. I mean, that would be pretty big. Yeah. In an RCR car, that would be. I mean, I think. Yeah. You know, you're 40 years old now, right? Congratulations to the 40 group. Does your body hurt yet?

What time a day? Okay. You said it up. That was for me the age where my body changed in a sense of like, holy crap, I spend more time warming up than working out. You know, so that was the big change for me. Mind-wise, eyesight-wise, everything for me for me is the exact same. I feel as sharp now as I've ever felt. The body is the only thing that is difficult. But I do more maintenance now than what I used to do back in the day. I'd love to have the time to do anything. I don't. I know.

When I'm on vacation, I actually have more time to work out on vacation than I do when I'm at home. You know, this morning. You took my workout away from me. Sorry about that. I appreciate that. Well, you dodged me for a year because I think you were supposed to be on here after indie of last year. I was.

You wrecked my ass Hold on Stop Stop the press You were inside of me And lost control of your car Oh how many times Now I did have to

Can we talk about how we hate these cars again Yes It was it was 12 laps I think I was faster than you But it was 12 laps to the end of the race So I'm not going to ask you to pull over At the end of the race I was trying to make it on fuel

He would literally lift at the start finish line Three lanes down off the wall knowing that there is no chance in hell anybody's going to go around the outside. That's exactly right. Like you're going to look like an indie car. If you put it around the outside and you put your right sides in the rubber

that's out there, you're just going to go, I thought that he was dodging me to not take responsibility for crashing into me. But then it turns out he actually did have a risk issue. I did. We were on vacation. Yeah, that's right. Did you ever, did you ever,

I mean, are you fully recovered from that? I mean, it's fine, but. It's so interesting. I got in a wreck in Daytona this year. My wrist is still not the same. I still can't get it all the way back. In February. I mean, this has been...

Yeah, mine took to about the end of the year to be right. It's three months now, and it's still not right. There's still times when I work out or do certain workouts and stuff like that where I'm like, hmm, it's going to be sore for this week. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, we're glad to finally have you a year later. Almost.

So, I mean, one of my goals was to try to catch you in wins. but if we keep having these stepping on it I don't want to hear it just shut up Do you think he's gonna catch you? Yes I

I think it's gonna be hard depends on what he says his runway is I mean I'm four years older than you are right I don't know you can be Mark Martin and run until you're 53 if you're still winning bro

talk to my age and he wishes I'd race until I'm 60 but I I said Yeah, not happening. I don't know. I think that you still, I know from a driver standpoint, you're still as good as you've ever been.

I think that there is an opportunity that you're going to win more races. I think the number gets probably, it'd be close. What am I at right now? 63. And is Earnhardt 75? He's 76. Is that the next one? Yeah.

Oh, so it's more than nine. Okay. You're going to need multiple four race-win seasons. No kidding. Yeah, that's... But that'll be tough. Yeah, I think for me, there's going to be, when I call it, it'll be for various of reasons.

Hold on a second. If I got four more years left, let's just say, 44, right? If I got four more left, I'd like to run five more, because then that'll put me in the bracket of age for then Brexton and what all happens with... That's what I was about to go to, is that. So if I can get above 70, if I can get above 70, for me, that would be perfect. I think for me, like, where I'm at right now, for anybody, honestly, with the world we live in with this next gen car and racing and everybody wrecking on final restarts and all this BS, like if you can have a three or four race win season and make it to the championship eight, that is a good season. Absolutely.

Right? The icing gets put on the cake when you make it. to the final four, right? And then you light the candle if you're the champion. I agree. Or you blow everything. Yeah, I think it's everything that you said there. I think it, which is, which to me, that's where if I'm you,

makes the Daytona 500 more frustrating, right? Because you don't necessarily get to decide your fate as much as what you used to. The skill level of what it took to win a Daytona 500 is so different now. what it used to be. Now it's like, man, you just hope you execute on your pit stop. You're in the right lane. And you have to be at the lead of your lane. Like even the fourth or third place guy, the chances of them winning are just so small. Two years ago, the Daytona 500, we had one of those green white checkered finishes. And I think I restarted eighth or tenth or something like that. I was literally right where William Byron, the race went green to the end. And I got shuffled out.

I think I finished 11th or 12th. But anyway, the race went green to the end. It actually did finish. where this year the big wreck happens down the back and William snakes his way through there and wins. Yeah. Like I could have been that guy two years ago. Well, you had a great shot. Is it 2022? The first next gen Daytona race?

Yeah. First and second. You did a teammate restart. That, that I thought was the deciding factor. We should have held the rose. You should have controlled the rose. Right. Yep.

Absolutely. We learned our lesson on that one. But then we had another shot the year after. We were leading and I think Suarez spun out coming to the white flag. Yes. We were at the beginning of pit road when Suarez spun out off a turn four. And then the caution came out before we took the white. And then we had to go through a restart.

And I don't remember what happened. But we led on that restart too. What do you feel about kind of, I've somewhat taken your villain role? Way to go, buddy. way to go I one thing that I gave him my manual yeah

I feel as though is it fun Kyle it's somewhat fun to me when you see when you can when you can win when you can be winning

when you can have the clout to be able to back up what you say yes you can do it all you can do you can act act the fool all you want right because you can back it up

yeah I have have nothing to back it up right now. So I had to put the black hat on the shelf and pull off the white one. I'll never forget. We were there for the NASCAR 75 greatest drivers thing. And Carl, Carl was like, what happened? Yeah. We were on the stage. We woke up all of a sudden. Kyle is getting cheered and I just get, I mean, just booed out of the place. And he says, wait a minute, what happened since I've been gone? You know, Kyle's all of a sudden the good guy? It's like, Yeah, so, yeah, I think that, I think people are, you know, seeing you for, for, as, especially as a dad, kind of how you truly are. And sometimes I thought when you were younger, your, your fiercest rival was yourself because you were so intense that people would read that into, that's not who really Kyle is as a person.

That's who he is, his persona as a racer. Yeah, that's in the ring. That's right. Yeah. It's in the ring. Right. You can do that when you have, when you do the things that he does behind the wheel. And so I'll never forget when he first came to JGR.

It's just like I knew that my game was going to have to get stepped up because like, remember that Atlanta test? The Atlanta test. We just kept going back and forth. Oh, that was his first time in a JGR car. Yeah. Head to head with me. And he said he's like, I just want to see how I stacked up against you.

And man, I'd go out there. I set fast slap. Boom, he goes out, beats it. I set fast lap. He goes out and beats it. And it was just back and forth for like a day or so. Oh, the whole day. Yeah, it was like 12 times.

It was great. I think that that right there sort of just solidified our relationship for one another of like, I'm going to push you and you're going to push me and we're going to make, we're going to make JGR as great as we have. One thing I absolutely have to give Kyle credit for. And this is undisputed because I know because I, I, because I went through it, is that he made me way better on the mile and a half racetracks. I mean, watching him and understanding kind of how he approaches mile and a halfs, that changed.

It wasn't, mile and a halfs were not my strong suit. And they are actually my strong suit now. But it's because I never forget, there was a Charlotte test, and I was just kind of watching him, and I don't think he knows this. And I said, I'm going to drive it like him now. And I got faster. And then I got in a test at Chicago land. I actually got in his car, the 18 car.

And I said, I want to feel he's clearly got speed. I don't at the time. Let me see what he thinks is a good feeling car. And I drove it and I was like, whoa. It doesn't even feel like it's from the same manufacturer. Like this thing drives totally different. And so from that point forward, I just kind of changed the feel I wanted my cars. What you were looking for?

What I was looking for. I think I was sending my team down a path that just wasn't as good. And so that really was an eye-opener for me. And you absolutely made me better for sure. I did that. I appreciate that. Well, thank you. I did that at Kentucky one time with Truex.

We were there testing. And I got in Truex's car. I made four laps and I pulled in because I was like, I can't drive this thing. It was so go-cardi. Like, you turn it this way and like it wanted to spin out. I was just like, I'm going to crash. Like, I can't. I can't drive this thing.

It's amazing how what each driver, how different they like cars. How he could make that go fast. I'm like, the sensitivity to that thing was so great. I'm like, I want to drive a Cadillac. Like, I want to drive this big boat thing that just does what it needs to do. And he's sitting here driving a go car like, zoom, zoom, zoom. It was amazing how different the cars were, but yet he could make speed with it. And I was like, okay, now I got to figure out how to change my style to make speed with that.

And it's just so different. And yeah, it's just, as much as us drivers are the same, like we, we like totally different things. So that was interesting. Going back real quick to playing the villain role and you guys, you know, being someone on the track that you're not off the track. I remember, first I've been a NASCAR fan all my life. So I always thought you were a jerk. Thank you. And then 2019, the first season I started working with you, you ran through.

He's a jerk. Not him. Well, no, you ran through New York with me. Oh, that's right. And I was like, oh, Kyle's not that bad. And actually, he's smarter than Denny that he knew that this was not five miles back to the hotel. That was great. You got me good.

It was, yeah, look, it's 7.3 miles is like, yeah, but you can actually run in a straight line versus actually having to follow all the streets. Yeah, the traffic. So, yeah, he got me on that bet for sure. Did I use your shoes? Yeah. God, I'm glad I had those. I still have them. They were heavy.

They were heavy, but they were way better than what I was going to try to do it in. Yes. Oh. You had dress shoes. Who had dress shoes? I had dress shoes. Oh, yeah. And I needed, so he gave me his J's.

So I ran in his Jays, but they were like. Pay you in like a bunch of pennies or something? Yeah. Yeah, you paid me at the championship in, uh, Nashville. I dumped them on his bed. You dumped him. Those were dirty pennies, too. It stunk so bad.

I am. I'm so, there's a photo of this. You guys are going to throw the photo up. The, the greatest thing that happened of that for like the photo of it and everything, all being great, we come back to the room and it's like,

what is that smell, right? It's like, you don't recognize when you're holding just a couple pennies, but you put a bucket of them. Yeah, and it's bad, right? It's bad. But it's a good damn thing

we didn't have to stay in that room. We literally went back to the hotel to change our clothes and then go to the airplane. Samantha would not have stayed in that bed. Oh, no. There's no chance. That's what I remember.

We were dumping them on the bed. We realized at that point, oh, this isn't really even a joke on Kyle anymore. Samantha's going to be the one who's pissed about this because she's not going to have a room to come back to. Yeah. Well, before we close out here, producer Travis texted me a half hour ago. We need your reaction to your sound bite yesterday. They're all clans every single one of them. I mean, we can't even make anything of a mediocre day right now.

Yeah, you did get, you were the innocent bystandard and some guys playing grab ass up. What the hell were they doing? I mean, the one was running the top, but he was like four feet off the wall. And then the 21's all squiggly wiggly. So I couldn't. And hits the four, and then the four bounces into me and spins me out. Was there a different camera angle? Because the one I saw was from the side.

There's a head on down the back stretch. Yes. Yeah, the one was not up against the wall. Right. But I guess you guys came off three or four wide, right? four. Four wide. And it was like four wide, no problem. And then I even kind of like drifted up an extra foot because I'm looking at where the four car is.

And I'm like, oh, I got another foot to go to set myself up for three. So I'm going to take that one more foot. And all of a sudden I'm spinning out. Like even if I didn't take that. Jared, let me see it. Oh, go back, go back, go back, back, back. A little bit. Is it the one from the NASCAR Instagram?

Because it starts way too soon. It was interesting. The one. No, it's not. It's on Twitter. the one is shaded down but he he he he he he swerved but with his back end was it because the 21 you know I believe the 21 got so close to his left rear there that it kind of it does pull pull and so not enough room the one could have been higher everyone just could have gave each other a little more

space but cow must have been you must have been caught straight off guard because you're just just going straight driving next thing you know yeah i'm going to the infield you know what happened on that though i had PTSD of the Daytona crash oh yeah i was heading to the inside wall and i'm like oh my god this again i'm like please rudder you know so like i crank it the tires up yeah no not the right sides the right sides went flat and did you get stuck in the grass yeah you did so i down shifted into second gear and the car's going so slow it's just putts in along and then it ramps over the grass because I was trying to get the motor to turn back over by itself, and it just stalled right on the grass.

Oh, you backwards did again? No, that was Justin Haley. But Kyle's done that plenty of times. You set a train. You're a pioneer. I know, yeah. You've got to go. If you're backwards, go backwards.

I know, it was kind of a crappy day. So anyway, we're all clowns. Every one of us. We all don't know how to fricking drive. I mean, the good news is... It's the composite bodies. That's what it is, right? Like, everybody just runs into everybody

and runs over everybody and hits everybody, hits the wall, because we all just bank on the fact that the body's just going to pop back out and we're going to be fine. Yep. These clowns would not have any clue how to drive. A car you couldn't touch a fender or else you'll...

A steel body car. It'll just destroy your air dynamics. You touch the wall and it plows. Yeah. Put them back in the Gen 4 cars. I think they want us to have contact, though. I know. That's car.

You're only... What is it? Seven points out of the playoffs? I mean, considering all the... crap stuff that has happened. Like, you're still there. You're still right there. Yeah, I don't even know where to go with that.

I mean, like Texas, right, you drive from 25th all the way up into the top three, and then you back it into fence, and you finish 20th, and no stage points on the day. And then you go to Kansas, and you drive from 35th up to 13th, and then you're like, okay, we're going to put tires on it. I'm going to get up to 5th in this next run, and then you run 11th in stage 2. And it's like, no stage points again. and it's like, all right, let's figure out how to at least finish this day. And like my quote said, it was like, we can't even figure out how to finish a mediocre day.

You know, getting crashed from the middle of the field. I think that was after the pit stop where we lost eight spots on pit road, too, so that didn't help. I agree with you in the sense that, you know, a lot of it gets talked about luck. But honestly, if you're going to be 15th to 20th, that's where you're going to get wrecked, right? You're going to be part of a restart wreck or something like that because guys are running 15th to 20 for a reason, right? And it's like it just puts you in a really, really tough spot. If you ever get a penalty, I mean, it just puts you back there. The air is so horrible.

You know, the drivers aren't probably as good as the guys that are up front. And, you know, just the air dynamic situations you get put in. And next thing you know, guys are bouncing off of each other and you find yourself going to the infield. And so, and with these next-gen cars, as well. It's like used to be kind of just you spin out. You go put four tires on it and you go. Now you're dragging the underbody off.

And now you've lost 50 count. You know, I'm throwing a number. Absolutely. Lost all your down force. And then you're just people, your fans are wondering, well, why isn't he fast anymore?

Any more. What you can't see under there. Yeah. Cars killed. Destroyed. Yeah. Oh, I'm riding back to the pits. And I'm like, I think my other quote was,

this effing thing is effed. It's good. to see we still got some of old Kyle back. That's what I'm saying. Your mic's not muted all the time. Perfect, perfect day for it. And so, yeah, I mean, you're just, you're dragging the whole thing when you're on your way back to the pits with flat tires.

And so it's like, oh my gosh. And we have a whole finish of the race to go here. So anyway. Well, I wish you the best on the rest of your season. Let's do it. Yeah. Let's win a race. Let's try, well, let's try to keep your win total reachable.

I'm sure you love it. If you finish one under, I'll know you love me. I tell you what, I would exceed my goals if I finish one under you because my goal was to get to 60. But I actually truthfully want to be ahead of Harvick. There's others that are going to pass possibly both of us. Right. Oh, yeah. Larson's on as well.

Yeah. Ligano has a chance if he wins, you know, on average three races a year. I know that's really, that's harder to do than what it sounds. But, you know, he could get there. I don't see anyone else kind of, you know, on the horizon other than those guys. I mean, William Byron, but I just think that I guess he could. If he goes long enough, continues to win a lot of races. But it'll be really, really difficult.

So I just, I'd love to finish inside the top 10 on winners, but knowing that I got a few guys that are younger coming up, that that'll be hard. I just think it's going to be hard if we continue to run next gen cars for people to. to win that many races. It's just there's just the parity is what. Well, the other issue too is like if you're not, if you're not Gibbs, Hendrick,

or Penske, you're not probably going to win multiple a year. It's hard. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like those are the, those are the manufacturers that control the manufacturer teams. The manufacturers, right.

Yeah, they control essentially what information gets flowed down to other tier one or tier two teams. So you can argue whether you're always going to get the same as what the guy that controls it. Is he going to let everyone have the exact same things? I don't know. But it seems like over the last few decades, those three teams certainly has controlled

everything and certainly controlled the race wins. Well, a new OEM is on the way, so we'll have a fourth team. you think so a fourth manufacturer have you ever heard that before every year I said it every year I hear that every year it's why we don't have more horsepower but that's a whole

another discussion let's forget about that oh my gosh last thing and then we'll sign off here how do you because your fans are going to want to know how do you lose a clutch how does that happen I have no idea that was the first one I've lost but was your clutch pedal fine the whole weekend it lost all of its throw and it was

rock hard and it never disenged and never engaged. So have you had that? It lost all of its throat, meaning it wouldn't move anywhere? So let's just pretend the throw is this long. Yeah. It went to this long and it was at the bottom of it, like just rock hard and it stopped engaging. So yeah. My clutch this weekend was a little funky, which it was actually the same motor that we ran at Darlington, which is the last time that we had a funky clutch as well too. So we think it's got to be something in the bell housing, like the throwout bearing or something. Yeah, at Reddick and and I flew home together and he says, yeah, I've had that many times. I'm like, this is the first for me.

I don't know. I'll go to JGR and I think Ty Gibbs always has shifting and clutch issues or whatnot. I haven't, just for my first, but man, freaking two weeks in a row of mechanical affairs is driving me crazy. So I don't know. It's just my time. You know, hopefully we get this bad luck out of the way early. but yeah I don't know how you lose a clutch I don't know it was very weird I left how do you how do you down shift upshift without a clutch you don't have to

you just you can just you know match RPM and it goes into gear so as long as the hard part is neutral to first yeah when you're sitting still yeah and that's where I blew the gears out is when they push me off I probably went to the gas too quick tried to put it in gear

and it just destroyed you know once it you know think about if the engine spinning the faster the engine spinning the when that thing comes well the diff is spinning yeah the diff is spinning all the gears are spinning and you literally just try to jam it in yeah and get them to go together it's just gonna they're just going to blow apart because they're spinning at 2,000 r pms yes because that's what the motor idles at yeah so the clutch will stall all those gears they said that my uh transacture was like split in two oh yeah i just i mean i blew every gear out of it that i I don't know how you would get through that scenario.

Well, for two pit stops, it made it. It went in gear. Okay. But the third one, which was, I mean, I've covered two. Yeah, I only needed it go one more. I needed one more pit stop that I had to survive. And I kept having to go outside the top 10 every time and would drive all the way to the top three or four. I had my clutch go out one time at JGR.

Remember the Pocono race? Yep. We jammed it in fourth gear. That's right. Well, I couldn't shift. So wait, why was... I remember you kept leaving the pit stall really slowly.

Yeah. And then your restarts were all messed up. Is that the one where you came with a running start on a restart? No, that was Daytona. No, that was Daytona. I remember that one. No, I just didn't have a clutch. So they had to push me off of pit road.

And same thing, like I had to jam it into gear in order to just go, right? But then I could shift on the track just fine. But that was the one where we fuel mileage it to the end. we saved enough fuel to make it where you guys all had to pit, but we topped off. So it worked out in our favor. That's right. God dang it.

I was leading. I pitted on the last lap. Probably. Yeah. One for Kyle. Negative for Ditton. I know. That's such a swing.

It goes from my win to your win. And it's like, oh, that's a two race swing there. Son of a gun. There's a few. There's a few that have gone away. I know. It has. All right.

We can be here all day. Are we done? We pretty much are. Jared, you want to do your final? You got a review here from Spotify. We already talked about this, but the review says,

I bet you wish Kyle Bush was still the number one villain. I don't know if you do, because if Kyle's the number one villain, he's winning a lot of reasons. That's right. And I'm... Yeah. I would love to be the number one villain still.

I would take villain role over not winning. Fans, y'all hear that? Go back to bullying him. Maybe it'll motivate you. Trust me, it's not... No. No. I motivated plenty.

Okay. No, I'm not... I'm not laying back. Trust me, I'm not sitting on the couch on Sunday. Well, we appreciate you coming. Thank you for finally making it back. No worries. And personally for me,

thank you for making me a better driver all those years. We were teammates. I know that we weren't all, you know, cozy together, but, you know, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. And love to see, you know, Brexton and what you're doing with him. Thank you. Fantastic. And I probably have two grandfather clocks that I wouldn't have ever, ever got

if it wasn't for learning off of you too. Well, thank you. Thank you. Do you set yours still? I have mine out in the garage, truthfully, out in a box.

I don't open them anymore. Do you have to set it? I don't set it. You have to pull the chains on the back. You have to manually wind it every week. Every week? Every week. Yes.

Oh, gosh. Those big round cylinders. The weights? The weights, yeah. When they start dropping, you have to pull them back up to keep the thing wound. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just pretty to look at. I wouldn't actually use it. They are pretty to look at, yeah. You want this other one put in your house? You have a house now, right? I do, yeah. I did see the fire suit closet. Oh, gosh.

Yeah, I got a lot of shit there. I do too. I have a lot of suits that actually we probably were on, remember the old Haas avocados? Yeah, I got all that stuff. Yeah. You're doing better than me because yours are actually hung. Mine are just folded in a rubber-made containers with lids on them

and written with what year they are. Yeah. You've got to have a lot of help to keep up with all this stuff. No kidding. No question about it. So, Jared, yeah, we'll just come get the Bartonsville one here. Okay, I got a bigger car. Yeah, I'll have Austin come over and pick it up.

All-Star races, this coming weekend, Pickery Challenge Friday, heat races Saturday. They start at 520. All-Star Open is Sunday at 530, and the All-Star race is at 8 p.m. on FS1. Oh, all right. Well, and this is Fox's last race. It is. We go to Prime. We go to Prime.

or we go then T&T's after that. Yeah. So when do we do the seating for the bracket? I, because I was thinking. Was that this year? I was actually thinking on the way home. Real cash.

Hmm. Yeah. I was actually thinking on the way home. Am I screwing my, are these DNFs screwing my bracket seating? But maybe it's not started. I don't think it started yet.

No. I think we would hear if it started. Apocryus would post it. You'd know. Yeah. But the birth of your son could call it. I'm not going to miscarriage. that's what they all say

well I you can basically decide when to have a baby nowadays they just you know induce induce and like schedule it it's like a dentist appointment that's what we did

brex easy for me every every woman's right you have no idea what we go through you're right I don't so Brexton's due date was on the 22nd right and I was like we are not having a Legano baby that

I was like, Hey, I was like, is 18 an option? Is 18 an option? There's no way we can have chastain, baby. I would, I would, I would, I would counter that as it's Samantha's birthday, too. So you can, you can have a child on Samantha's birthday. When's her birthday? First.

June 1st. Oh, okay. Hmm. Here's the real question. If you're not. What day of the week is that? June 1st. Monday.

Monday. It is Sunday? Oh, you can't have it on June 1st. That's not going to work in Nashville. The problem is we go to Mexico City after that. What is Friday? Friday is a 6th. No, Friday before.

We're going to have to... 30th. This boy... How about a 30? Nobody's 30. 30 works. Make it 5.30. Friday before Nashville. The question is, if the baby's born on Sunday

and you're not there and you're in a car, does Jordan then get to choose the name? We discussed this. on the plane ride home. It's not going well with the whole... When did you decide the name of your child? Is it like months in advance? Yeah, we had to keep it quiet.

My mom wanted to know for so long and we were like, we are not telling you because you'll blurt it to everybody. I won't commit to even talking about it. Oh, you got to have it done, son. I always just say, we'll figure it out when we get in the room. No, that, no, you don't want that pressure of that, no. My problem is... You want a clear mind.

I get fixated on. things so I have a name. There's only one on my list and I, you only have one name on your list? That's it. And how many does she have? More than one. He's seen her list. So I'm telling him, like Jordan can't have 30 names that you poop.

When you're coming to the table with one name, right, yeah. Do you like my name? It's good. But I feel like you should, if she doesn't love it, you should be like, yeah. I think you're going to get 50% of your name. But she told me months ago that it's a. boy you probably should get the greater say and I said I agree with I would have who got the greater say in the first two not Denny apparently no no no not Jordan she

said that the first one I Taylor was one that I was heavy on Molly was her but I but she has a picture of us in in the in the room and writing names on the on the whiteboard and it was like okay we're going to go with that one. I think you need to whiteboard it. I just, I'd procrastinate. And I don't know, I just feel, I don't know, I'm just one of those that doesn't like to talk about things early. When you had Brexton and you had chosen that name,

were you thinking about, like, his racing career? Like, oh, we need a good racer name with a little bit. A little bit. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like one of them was, Beckett was our favorite boy name. And then Samantha's cousin up in Illinois, had a baby Beckett.

And so we were like, hmm, no. So Brexton almost was Beckett. Yeah. Yeah. And then we were, we knew we wanted a B name. We wanted a B, B,

so whatever B Bush, right? Because Samantha is S.S. Samantha Sarsanella. Yeah. So we wanted to tie that with her. And so we think more similarly than I thought. Yeah. We've been around each other for a long time.

I know. I know. Because Jared, knows what I like. Yeah. There's a certain reason why I like it. It flows. The symmetry like you talked about.

So we had this whole list of B names and we were just kind of like, okay, well, so-and-so has that kid, so-and-so has that kid, so-and-so has that kid. That's a terrible name for a racer name. Isn't it crazy how if you know one person with a name you're considering and you don't love that person, you're like, nope, nope, out. Out. Because it reminds me of that person who sucks. Yeah.

There is a name, there are names that I like, but there's someone that has it that sucks. And I just don't want to associate them with that. I'm sorry, Kyle's probably was on your list at one point. Maybe it's on Jordan's list. No. So Brexton's name originally was Braxton, B-R-A. And so we were like, okay, I don't like Braxton. Like, I want to more.

Does Brexton know this? Yeah. So I was like, I want it more manly, like Brexton. See? And so we changed the vowel. You two are like. You should hang out more. Yeah.

We discussed this on the whole plane around home. Nothing soft. Don't give me, excuse me, if you listen to your name is it. But like, Sebastian, no, I'm sorry. It's soft. That's an F1 world champion right there. What are you doing? Just like, there's every name on her, not every name.

But there are many. I got it. I know what you're going to go. soft names. I know it's on his list. No soft. I like... Lewis. I like one syllable. Lewis.

I want to... Listen, when I start yelling at this kid, I want it to be short and sweet. Name it Lewis. Newest Hamlin instead of Hamilton. One I brought up... Hello, Lewis. It's probably not... It's not going to be yet.

But I was like, Jameson, for... It's James' son. You know what I mean? But Jameson, just too long. I don't like it. That's a liquor. I know. Yeah.

Yeah. That too. I like Danny. Could go with Rebel. Mm. Rebel Bush? Yeah. Yeah.

That could have worked. Well, appreciate you guys coming. And we will see you. Where are we racing? We're at North Forksboro. FS1 next weekend. So I appreciate you all tuning in. We'll see you next week.