Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Phoenix: The Tire We Deserved

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

In the closest finish in Phoenix history, Denny Hamlin came up just shy of a victory on Sunday. Shortly after a second-place finish, he reacted to the race, sharing his thoughts on Christopher Bell's win and Goodyear's "option" tire. The guys also dove into the Xfinity finish and news that happened off the track.1:25 Christopher Bell wins third race in.a row6:00 Why Denny needed the race to stay green12:00 Was Christopher Bell's move clean or dirty?17:20 Goodyear got it right with the Option Tire26:30 Learning from Ryan Preece using the Option tire early30:45 Aric Almirola wins the Xfinity race33:00 Chase Briscoe and JGR win their appeal37:30 Austin Cindric not suspended41:30 NASCAR counter sues 23XI, FRM & Curtis Polk For more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimentalFor all your Actions Detrimental and Dirty Mo Media merch, head to shop.dirtymomedia.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What's your plans for this week? Me and Young Money, we're going to be, probably when this comes out, we're going to be teeing it off Monday morning, play some golf. Wait, so you guys are friends? I mean, fans think that you guys are like mortal enemies. They don't know what they don't know. We tried to shake and bake tonight. Didn't work, but they tried.

He tried. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. opinions from tonight's podcast strictly biased you're going to hear from my point of view I'm a fighter no you are not

the spoils of victory for Jared Allen he's got better luck the drink and drink to win I know you do two trophies missing from your collection championship and the most popular driver someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure

yeah and I've already said Hey guys welcome to actions detrimental First Phoenix Raceway Race 4 of the schedule and we had Christopher Bell get his third win in a row three of four that's pretty good start to the season.

Is that just a coincidence? How do you win three or four races? On three different tracks? You know, I feel like there's times where, like, you can do nothing right, and, you know, you feel like you've dominated week after week after week and you just don't get a win, I feel like this is the opposite of that. Like, today was domination, right? But, like, Atlanta wasn't, and Cota wasn't, but things just worked out, right?

Like, cautions felt the right time, and even Christopher Bell said that, you know, he, the first two were very unexpected. He wasn't expecting the win and just did. And those don't come, it feels like those wins don't come that often. It's more the other way around where it's like, man, it's usually get crushed in this business of, you know, thinking you got to win and then it doesn't happen. But I don't know, things just running, you know, things are rolling good right now, right? He's not crapping out. Everything's, he's hitting all the numbers and can do no wrong.

Match that. Match good luck with good skill, fast cars, good execution. You're probably going to have a lot of wins. So that's what he's doing right now. Is that sustainable? Like, can this run? No, I mean, no. Being, like, having good fortune, right?

and winning races that you don't expect to win or don't. You know, those things just kind of happen, and they get spread out in your career usually. But, you know, is it sustainable in the sense of, I mean, could he win the next two more in a row on skill and talent and speed? Absolutely, yeah. But it's a weird business because it's, You know, the fastest car, fastest driver only wins like 30 some percent of the time.

So it would be defying odds, even if he were to dominate the next couple weeks, which he could. Yeah, it just feels like if the race plays out in your favor and things fall your way, if you bring a fast car and you're the best guy on the day. Yeah, I mean, but today would have been, you know, I heard Jordan and those guys say, like he easily could have had no victories. but instead he's got three in a row. So that just tells you kind of like the balance of this thing. But today he was deserving to, right?

Because it, you know, he dominated the race, got to the front, never relinquished it unless people were on some alternate strategies. So, man, I mean, it'll make you jealous of the fortune very quickly. We talked about last week, or you talked about watching your teammate, win and we'll get into your day later, but how is it watching him win three in a row? Is it, and then you were right there? Is it even worse than the feeling last week and the previous? No, not really, because, you know, had, let's just say we had won today.

I would have said, one one we probably shouldn't have, right? And so I felt very fortunate to have a chance there at the end. But I just feel like, I don't know, it's tougher when we run like crap and your teammate runs really well. That's where you've got to like, okay, what's going on? How is the approach so different that our results are so different? That's where it becomes frustrating, not when you get beat by 300ths of a second. But certainly you're still like, damn it, 55 was right there for.

the taken at the end. It wasn't for all 312 laps, but on lap 311 instead of stolen it. I mean, that's where my frustration really stems from, right? It's just like, gosh, you've got to have, if you want to

accomplish your goals, you got to get, you got to capitalize on each one that you, that you have that opportunity. And so, again, I thought when we came out second with 40 to go, I thought we had a legit shot. I thought We had made our car much better on the long run.

I was looking forward. We got red tires. I'm like, okay, all I got to do is put some pressure on him, stay right here behind him, and let the thing kind of work out. And in the long run, I felt like I could make some ground and pressure him. But, you know, we ended up into some shootouts. And it's like, man, you know, that's not necessarily my forte.

But we ended up getting a couple good restarts. and that changed my, your goals in a race constantly changed throughout the race. I mean, I'll find myself many times in the middle of a race. You know, say you got a bad pit stop or some bad fortune or something. You're 15th with 50 to go. I'll say to myself, I'm going to be happy getting back to the top five today. Like if I get a top five, these circumstances, like I'm going to leave this weekend satisfied. And so it just changes.

And, you know, when it was 50 to go, and I was 6th or so, it was like, can I finish 4th? And so it just changed with each circumstance to change at the end of the race. Hey, this is Dale Jr. And for the latest actions detrimental gear, go to shop.durdymomedia.com. We've got plenty of options for you. We're adding new stuff all the time. That's shop.durtymomedia.com. Why were you so confident that with 40 to go you had a chance to win?

Like what was it about the long run that you learned throughout the day? Yeah, we got our car better as it seemed like the day went on in the longer run. And I just felt somewhat confident. And again, you don't know how hard bells pushing it, but you would think if I'm just a couple car lengths behind or a car link behind, you know, and I can see his car right before the first caution came out, his car was starting to move. Like you could see it starting to twitch on the exit quite a bit,

which means he's pushing it. And at that time, I felt like I was, you know, doing a good job of kind of just staying right there with them, saving a little bit for, like, you got one good push that you can do in these cars before you'll blow the tires off, especially this option tire. So it's timing when you go for that push.

And I needed the lap times to slow up, just a couple more tents for me to then make my effort to push. And so it wasn't that time yet, just simply because the lap times we were running at the time were starting to fall off, but the line I wanted to run, I needed the pace to be just a couple then slower to do it. What was different about that last and final restart? Because you had a chance, you restarted outside. bell twice before that five. I think that was the third time. It was the third time. What was different

about that one that allowed you, you know, to get to the finish line side by side with him, that the other two restarts you were, you know, he cleared you out of two. Yeah. The biggest one was, I got a good jump first, but then, you know, I started, you know, he got the lunch. He's going, he's shortcutting more the dog leg, you know, had I, you know, there's many things I would have kind of done different in retrospect now, but, you know, I should have kind of held him a little bit lower, not, you know, not ran a longer distance. But the key really was Larson right when we got past the start finish line. He, he gave me a really hard push into the dog leg, which then allowed me to get even with him. And at that point, I'm like, okay, although he still got the leverage,

you know, he can't just drive in there and, and totally, you know, push me up the racetrack. Like, we're even, it's, you know, when you've got kind of that, you know, very similar kind of at Larson at Pocono, right, he wasn't totally even with me. So at that point, I'm just using up all the racetrack. Well, when you're door to door, it makes it a little bit harder because you do risk kind of getting loose under the person and kind of losing momentum yourself. But at that time, when I was even with him going in one, I knew he was going to

drive in to try to slide me, but I was there. And so I was like, oh, man, just stay on his outside. If I can do that, then, you know, I'll have a shot. But it's just Phoenix is one of those tracks that's set up to where when you're on the outside in the final corner, we've seen it two days in a row. It's just you're at the mercy of the guy on the inside. Do you have any offensive plays there that you could run to have a better chance at winning this race? No. I thought that kind of my best shot was going to be coming to the white off of four, you know, I gave him plenty of room. You know, I didn't try to pinch him down or anything like that. But I, you know, I gave him some room there, and he was kind of getting loose off.

He got into my left rear. And I was hoping it would get him out of shape enough to where, like, you know, I'm staying in the gas. Maybe I clear him, and then all of a sudden I cut to the bottom and make him try to pass me on the outside. So, but when I didn't get clear, um, it just let him go into one wash up the racetrack again. He pretty much cleared me, but then I got that run back off of turn two and got even with him on the backstretch.

And at that point, I'm looking at it, and turn three is starting to shade quite a bit, so whatever marks you got, you're kind of doing it off a feel at that point. And I'm like, okay, I watched the Xfinity race, gave, who was that, Eric, like, two or three car wits, right, to like, hey, I'm giving you room to race here, like, let's try to do this fairly as possible, right? And it cost him. I think he just gave Eric too big of a window, and he gave him an out to do what he did. Not that I'm

saying it's wrong, right, or whatever, right? He just, I think, in the Xfinity race, Alex should just ran the bottom and forced Eric to knock him out of the way. That would have, you know, you gave him an opportunity to do it somewhat cleanish, where if you just run the bottom, there's no way he's going to get around you without just nearly wiping you out. So that's, had I, you know, had I had that same situation, I was clear, that's what I would have done. It's just run the bottom. If he wants to knock me out of the way, then that's his decision. But when you're in there side by side and you enter side by side, you know, this racetrack is, it's plenty wide, but if the bottom guy wants to wash you up into the marbles, there's not much you can do about it. And it won't even look egregious, but, you know, you can only run so wide on the exit of these corners because of how the marbles are. So I just was in a horrible leverage spot, and he took advantage.

So a lot of people are tweeting, though, that move, though, that Bell had on you moving you up clean, though, right? In your opinion? Yeah, I mean, I think I've had that choice in the past, right? You know, I ran Larson up the track and, you know, it wasn't the last corner. I think it's probably a little more acceptable on a short track, you know. But I don't know. I mean, sure, if I could have it my way. way, which I can't.

You know, everyone's out there to win for themselves. Do I wish we would have just gone in the corner, race side by side and see who could get the best run off? Absolutely. But I don't think he was going to win that way. So I think he knew that his best opportunity in that moment, being that I had the outside and was probably going to get the run off, was to try to slow my momentum by getting me up the racetrack,

and it worked perfect. Would you have done anything differently? Could you have done anything differently if it wasn't? Bell, you were racing? Like, sure, though, you guys look like if neither of you won. Yeah. Right. But is there anything you could have done differently if it wasn't a teammate?

You know, I looked at it. There was an opportunity in the middle of one and two when he, on the white flag lap, where when he slid me and he cleared me for a brief moment, I could have just said, okay, I don't want the outside. I'm just going to be on your bumper here. entering turn three, and I'm going to, like I did Lugano, when I got tired of him mirror driving me, I just like, okay, well, that's enough of this. So I just got on his left rear, shoved him up the racetrack. Like, that's kind of, if I had to do it all over again, I knew how he was going to

react, you know, knew what he was willing to do. I would have done, I would have, almost like Carl did at Richmond with Cowbush. Do you all remember that? He went in there. They got low and he just kind of knocked he just got Kyle up the racetrack knocked him up the track didn't spin him out like had I do it all over again and I could see everything see the grand picture know that I had plenty of space behind me with the five I would have said okay I'm not going to put myself on the outside I'm not going to win on the outside he's just going to shove me up I would have got behind him and shoved him up how much of that like goes through your head the moment. It's hard. So, like sure that you can't process. I, I did the same mistake. I did this same

mistake with Harvick at New Hampshire. Like I, it's such an idiot. I wish I would just do things differently in the moment, but it's so hard when you're in the moment. But I come off a turn two underneath him and I let off. I'm like, no, no, I don't want to be on the bottom because I don't want to get pinched. that's the stupid that was like the stupidest thing ever and instead i i get behind him and i'm like i'm just gonna nudge him out the way well what do he do he just went dead left slowed way down says go out there go out there and pass me i did and he just took turned right and says that's that's where it's just like i didn't learn my lesson the first time so we heard your audio at the end, clearly upset, but it's also in the moment. Where are you now? We sit

like two hours after. You got a second place finished. I mean, you got stage points. This was a great race for you. So I'm just judging, like, asking where are you at? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Great day. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to win because these, you know, these things are so hard to win. So I, you know, I'm upset, but I'm more like, I think I could have done a few things differently to maybe change the outcome. Could I have gone in a turn three since I was a foot ahead? Just, I'm going to hold them low. So you can wash up, but I'm going to run you down to your left side tires are on the apron there. And it would have killed his momentum.

He wouldn't have the leverage that just unwind the wheel and just use. used me to go up the racetrack, right? So I think I'm more mad at myself than anything to, you know, not do the things I needed to do to finish it. Yeah, it almost seems like in a way when you, you know, consigned to taking the high road in these battles, that often doesn't lead to the win. Yeah, certainly. But, you know, I don't think, I don't think he did anything dirty. Did me do me any favors?

No. but right? I mean, it's hard to say, and I said it earlier, like, I've had that choice before, and I did the same thing in the sense of like, you know, you got tremendous leverage in these next-gen cars when you're on the bottom. So I think he just used it to his advantage, and it sucked. I was on the other end of it. We also had option tires. Were they a winner in this race? Yeah, I mean, I certainly think that we've got a winner. We, and we talked about for the last three years, right, that me and Dale Jr. bleed for the longest time that Goodyear unlocked has the keys

to NASCAR Cup Series racing. And I think it's evident that we were right. I mean, because we've got tire fall off. We finally got them to put some soft tires on the car. And the results of the racing that we've seen speaks for itself. I just, it was a 100% success. I think that, you know, certainly, I can't think of a short track or a mile or less track that these tires couldn't go and race at next week.

Is that having two sets? Is that the right number for this? Well, we don't want options. We don't want multiple compounds. I think you start getting a little bit quirky when that happens. I think you just would have fantastic racing no matter what with just the straight-ass option tire. But I know there's going to be some counters here that like, yeah, but there was a lot of passing because some. or at a deficit than others, right?

Is that where you're going with this trap? Well, and I was going to ask, because Seabell was on the tear down, I think last year at some point and was asked about this, and he was like, I don't want this for the championship race because if you don't have a good car, you can roll the dice when you put the option tires on, which I think is what you're saying is just give us these tires as all of the sets. Yeah. Yeah, that's what we're saying is that, you know, just go ahead and this be our new short track tire

and it's up to the drivers and the teams to manage it from this point on. But, you know, there's a production to this, right? I mean, I don't know what their schedule is. Have they already made our New Hampshire tires? Have they already made our gateway tires? Like, I don't know, but they need to, if they haven't, they just need to copy and paste this everywhere we go. So you're happy with the fall off that these,

soft tires had today. Absolutely. Yep. Almost two seconds. And had the runs been longer, like the tires would have had a tough time making it a full fuel run. So we could run about 95 laps today on our fuel tank. Asking those tires to go 95 laps,

it would, you might have been able to do it, but you would have been going really slow. So, you know, that's what we want, that the tires run out before the fuel. Right. So you're saying that these option tires, soft tires, had two seconds of fall off.

So if you were to run those at, you know, in like 40, 50 laps. Right. It's then the driver's skill and how the driver's, you know, driving the racetrack to slow down that, you know, degradation for themselves.

It's like where I was trying to explain to you earlier, right? Is that I knew that I had 40 laps to run on these tires and I have to figure out how to get around Christopher Bell, I'm not going to do it in the short run. Our cars are too equal in the short run. I made a push two laps after the restart, and I was like barely keeping up. And I'm like, okay, I'm not going to win that way. So I have to bank on this thing going green.

How do I need to time this to where when the tires start slipping and I see his car start to twitch, that's when I go ahead and try to pounce in that moment. And that's what the driver's responsibility is, is to try to figure out ways to win. When all things are equal, how do you create a situation that makes it less equal? And that is using your brain, using your pedals to find an advantage. You're then understanding that my car is best at this point in a run. I need to save my tires and use them the most at this point in the run to maximize the speed of my car. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I can, you know, there was a point where, you know, I don't know, 25 to go, you know, where I was just kind of sitting there, a couple car links back.

I could have made a charge right there, but if it, there's two, there's two things that would have been negative. If I make a charge and is not successful, if we get a caution like we ended up having, I would have been toast on a restart. I would have gone backwards and lost any opportunity. me being back behind him, saving a little bit. And again, he's probably saving some as well up front. He's not trying to, you know, he's not trying to win by 10 seconds. He's trying to win by, you know, just enough. So to me, it was best for me, it was the best strategy for me to wait until that moment where everyone's car starts to fall off. How can you save a little bit now to either have it for a restart or have it for the end of the race? What was the fall off on the primary

tire compound. I think it was more like 1.3 seconds for the same amount of laps. You know, that's if you run 50 laps or so. Let's just throw that number out there, 50 laps. So while it's not a ton more, it's just, I can tell you from inside the race car, it is a dramatic, dramatic difference and we still haven't tested these tires over a super long run yet which is over 50 laps so that's where you would see this thing it might fall off three seconds might fall off four seconds we don't know yet because we haven't had a long enough green flag run to to test that one thing you mentioned as you wish that they maybe let you guys only do left sides does that apply here is that something that could maybe do to make it even a little more different if they are not going to

to give you a full set of soft tires for the entire race? Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. I think if you did that, I don't know that you would have the effect that it's what it's intended to do, right? You want, we're trying to create fall off in lap time. Laptime is what called, you know, is kind of the catalyst to overtaking. But if you start then doing some hybrid, well, all the way, you got hards on the. the right, softs on the left. I don't know that you're going to achieve what you're hoping to achieve. We need the right side tires to really take a shit. You know, where the rubber out, where, you know, get the tread off of it. And then, you know, once you get down to the, you know,

the core of the tire, it's, it's really hard and it's going to be really slick. That's what we're trying to do. And I think if you ended up, you know, putting harders on the right, softsers on the left, you would have probably a somewhere in between result. But I think that's, you would have probably a somewhere in between result, but I think what's making this so great is that the result is a big difference between the two. It seems great. I feel like we've been talking about tires now for the last three years of this podcast, and you just said this option tire is the one. So Goodyear just needs to produce more of this red tire. Absolutely. And I knew it right away at the North Worksboro All-Star Race. When we had that option tire there and we ran it, you know, I couldn't hardly get it. I couldn't hardly

unbuckled out of my car and there was a good year representative there and said what do we got is it is it is a good better i was like tire is great the tire is great great job um we need more of this and that's what they're doing is they're bringing it more that might be your title Travis tires are great I appreciate that we're like talking good about tires because I think the first like year and a half of this podcast it was just like always like negative about the tires and And so, you know, they've pissed in the recipe and we're getting good tires now. Yeah. Nobody still knows what happened in Bristol on that weird spring day.

But yeah, we're at least getting in a direction. And it's a direction. I mean, listen, we don't need tires like, you know, losing three, four seconds on an intermediate. But like, this is kind of what we need on those types of tracks as well to, you know, really, you know, if you want to improve racing every. were. Then we can, then know what we can do is focus on fixing the super speedway aerodynamic package. We'd be done with tires. I have a question. So Ryan Priest was the first to go with the option tire. As a driver, you like, and you're like, thank you because I want my team to be able to see what these tires are doing early on and I'm holding on to my two sets later. Yeah. And I think it's the only good

argument, I guess you could make for, you know, having options in the races that, like, it is a tool to get to the front, you know, but, you know, if a race plays out, like, everyone thinks it will play out, you're really going to be sacrificing your finishing position, but you can also get a lot of stage points this way. So it does make it a little bit interesting as far as that's concerned, but it pretty much everyone that they told me had red tires, like on a restart, right, early in the race, it's a car X, Y, Z, and Q all have red tires. It wouldn't take 10 laps and cars X, Y, Z, and Q were going around us. Like, I don't, it didn't matter. It didn't matter where they were, where they started. And it was like, wow, like it was a big,

big difference in grip. So it was interesting for sure. And it also, yes, it allowed our team to then kind of look at it to say, well, he ran such or such laps. He started here and he was able to get all the way to the front. So certainly he gave, he schooled a lot of teams and gave them some free data at the beginning of that race. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of interested to hear it when you come on here.

say let's just run the option tire itself let's get rid of the two tires because it seemed like a lot of the storylines they came from when drivers decided to use the option tire to gain that track position and then if they could hold it you know after using a set early yeah i mean i'm probably going to be just too much of a purist for for you guys you know i just we have so many novelties as it is like you know lucky dogs wave around screen by checkers up unlimited, like, we've done everything we can in the sport rules-wise to make it entertaining. Like, let's, I don't know, I'm just too old school to tell you that, you know, I want options for tires. It's just another, it's just another way that the best car will not win.

Right, because you can't, you know, the way an option tire would work out for somebody is because something would come into play that's outside of their control, right? A caution falls at an ideal time. Yep. Otherwise, using them early, I guess it's just always, always a bad strategy if you knew when the cautions are going to fall. Yeah. Well, I mean, case in point, Ty Dillon, had he not had a speeding penalty on Pitt Road was set up because he held on his tires to the last, I mean, he had a fresh set of soft tires ready to go. I think he was coming, it would have come out like 10th or something. And he would, but he had a speeding penalty. And, and he would, but he had a speeding penalty and it ruined his day, but he would have been, I mean, he probably would have

been racing for a win? Maybe. I mean, because he had a fresh set on, like. He passed me at one point. We were on yellows and I, the car tan on reds, three back, two back inside, clear. The one that shocked me was Legano. He was on a different strategy. And I didn't, I thought he would have gone with what was.

everyone else is doing considering he's a you know but he had a penalty that so it was his tool to get back to the front he wasn't going to get back to the front what did you make of that penalty did you see the replay it was it's a penalty yeah that's what my thing was is everybody was saying it's a nitpicky penalty i'm like yeah but it's a penalty if if when you play tennis that's why they have that hawkeye system like if the ball touches the line it's it's it does that it doesn't It's not nitpicking. You have to draw a line somewhere, and there's actually a line on the track. Similar to tonight's finish, Saturday night, Xfinity race, Eric Amarola wins by just sliding

Alex Bowman up the track. You already touched on that earlier, but what else did you see from that race? I saw that Justin Algeyer, it's, okay, so his luck is the opposite of, like, what we were talking about. Like, the guy is, you know, you could see right from the beginning, his car was really, really fast. And caution came out late. Back to back years, bad luck. Yeah, it just didn't happen for him. So caution came out late. They didn't pit, right? They just, everyone stayed out. Yeah, everyone stayed out, but just didn't get, you know, he got an okay restart, but he just didn't do a good

job in turns one and two. And he tried pulling, you know, a slider similar to, you know, like Christopher Bell did, but it's just those exonerity cars are on a razor's edge anyway. And it's just he got up the racetrack, you know, trying to stay off whoever was on his outside in that moment, and opened up the door for Bowman. I mean, yeah, he didn't win, but how much of this race is just like practice for November? Like, we're going to be just fine. We have a good starting point when we come back here in November because, I mean, he's racing two guys that are not, he's not going to compete with for championship.

But that's a win for him. It's five points. I know, but all guy are going to get his fair share wins this season. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but you hate to downplay, like, oh, it's fine. We didn't win. We'll get him next week. That's worse.

That's what we could be saying in the 11 camp right now. But to Jared's point, he said him banging my head against Walt. To Jared's point, though, he lost Bowman and Almorela, who aren't going to be. Yeah. Yeah. He's not, it's a big, it's a big swing, right, when you don't get the five bonus points. and someone else does. Like, okay, that's a 10-point swing.

But with Eric getting it, it's like nobody got the points. So it's just those points don't exist in the Xenity series playoff grid. Except for ownership, Joe Gibbs was happy. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a great point. The 19 car, I guess, is, you know, it's going to be in the playoffs, which you would think we would be anyway. Yeah.

Some off-track news. Let's start with the two penalties, the one reversed and then the one that came down on Austin Cynchrick. We'll start with Chase Briscoe gets his 100 points back. JGR wins the appeal. Ooh, man, Briscoe, it's a good thing he got those points back or else this would have been a nightmare start. I mean, it's not been great as it is,

but, you know, obviously a great turn of circumstances then winning their appeal. I can tell you firsthand, it is very, very hard the way things are set up to win an appeal in ASCAR. You're essentially appealing to the same people that gave you the penalty. But it's just, man, it's great for them. Obviously, I don't know the circumstances of it. I don't know what their argument was.

I'm way too busy to get into the nuts and bolts of it to figure out, like, what happened? How did it happen? But obviously three people that they had on the board there looked at it, saw all the facts, and felt like it was warranted to reverse it. Does it get harder to win an appeal after this? I remember we talked about the Louvers a few years back. And you said NASCAR is going to go through and change, make sure they don't lose again. Yeah, yeah. They changed it to where they certainly were not happy with the result from the Hendrick appease.

where Hendrick, the board says, or, you know, yeah, the board of people said, yeah, they did do that, but we're going to reduce the penalty. They were like, NASCAR, that pissed them off to no end. And they said, okay, we're going to fix it. We'll just change the rules to where it, if you deem that they did what we said they did, you cannot change the penalty. That is the penalty.

So it's either all or nothing. and so it's great for the 19 team right I mean could you imagine them I mean they'd probably still be in the negative right now and Dave Alpern who I love his TikTok accounts

he I think it was on there we explained it's like when you go to IKEA and he buy furniture and the little holes aren't always perfect and that's how we explained what was wrong with what they had and I was like okay like from layman's term like it made sense

and it was interesting. I just know as a team owner, I can tell you for certain, right, is that we fight quality control issues all the time. You know, again, this is, this car is a thousand piece Lego set. And it's just to get everything to fit, sometimes you have to pull things and yank things. And like, that's what NASCAR doesn't want you to do.

But like, it's, things don't fit. exactly right because it's not one company that is manufacturing all, you know, all the parts and pieces. And so it's, you know, how can you get this to match up with this? You know, while your accessory, you know, while you may think you have an iPhone charger, sometimes it says it does, this accessory is not supported. So like that's just kind of the realistic, you know, thing that we fight as, as teams to try to put this thing together and sometimes it doesn't come together the way you want it to. So what you're saying is like the spoiler is made by company A, but what it's being attached to is made by company B and their holes basically may be slightly off. Right. Yeah. And it, I mean,

to be better, you could, you, you'd have to hold those companies to a higher standard of quality control. Um, but we, you know, we don't have any kind of input into, you know, those companies. We just we buy something and it some there's some variance you know there's you know it's it's hard to have a zero tolerance but there there's definitely some some of the companies that have much wider variances than others uh Austin Cindrick receives 50 thousand or 50,000 fine and 50 point deduction for his right hook left hook on and Ty Dillon last week at Cota. Do you have any issues with this?

I mean, I got asked multiple times, and I still just don't have a great answer for it. I mean, you heard most of the drivers say, a right hook is a right hook. It doesn't matter. And we said on this podcast last week, the results shouldn't matter. You're judging on the intent.

I still have not, Look at the data, I mean, again, I don't have time to kind of go back and what did I see? I probably should have. I got a podcast, so if I'm going to speak, if I'm going to be educated on it, I probably should have taken the time to look at it, but I didn't. But I think if they, I think the punishment probably fits the crime in this case. Does it follow the rule book 100%? I don't know. But to me, he at least, he had to pay a price for what he did.

And he even admitted that he did it on purpose. So Dale Jr. reacted to this, and he was saying that 50 points for Ascentric may be a bigger punishment. Yes. than one race, though. So do you look at that? And like for you, for you or like a Larson or something, like, the punishment would be 50 points may not be as big of a deal. But does that matter to you?

I think if you probably look at Austin Cendrick's performance history, I bet you he probably averages 25 points a race. I think it's two races worth of, you know, him not being there. So that's a great point. That's a great point by Dale that, you know, it probably is worse than a suspension, truthfully. I have a question about this, and this might be a silly question,

but the last couple times that this has happened, where we said a driver has right-hooked another driver, it's happened at a high-speed track, an oval, right where the driver is then hooked into the wall. But at a road course here, it just looked like Austin, or, yeah, Austin-Sindrick intentionally spins out Ty Dillon. Like, is that really a right-hook?

Is the definition the same? Like, what if he just hooked him on his right quarter panel? And he spun him out the other way. Like, is it the same offense? Well, I think that's what you heard NASCAR say, right? Is that we're on a road course. It's a little different. The only thing that didn't make sense is they said, well, you know,

tied it on, didn't hit a wall or anything. No caution came out was another thing. Well, no caution came out. That's a choice, but he definitely hit a wall. he definitely had damage. But that's kind of what the basis for their decision was, right? Is that, you know, the reason we don't like right hooks, right, is because there's typically a wall on the right side.

And when you right hook someone, that spins your car around where you can either hit flat-sided on the left, which is very, very painful, very painful. or you nose your car head on into the wall. So that's why it's so dangerous where if you spin somebody out on the left side, you typically have more room there to spin and disperse some energy before you hit something. So that's why it's just more egregious to do it to the right. Right.

So NASCAR is more or less just saying a right hook that we've seen at high-speed tracks is not the same as a right hook. That's what they're saying. That's what they're saying, yes. Other off-track news, NASCAR countersues, 2311 racing front row motorsports, and 2311 racing co-owner Curtis Polk. It came as a surprise to me. You know, certainly I was very surprised to hear some of the, you know, the accusations that were said. All I can really tell you is that, you know, I've been in business now with Curtis, for five years. You know, the guy is one of the most respected businessmen in all of sports.

He's done it at, he's been in the business in multiple sports. He helped us build this race team into a championship caliber team by year five, which is what our goal was. And we saw this when the injunction happened, right? You heard, you heard our side, you heard their side, but ultimately when we got in a courtroom, the judge listened to facts and made judgment based off of the facts that he heard. And that's, you know, that's what we're

very much looking forward to when it comes to December 1st when this trial will happen. I found many of those things quite laughable. My favorite was saying that that that that that Curtis doesn't know NASCAR business. I don't even know how to give you an analogy, but that's like saying a chef doesn't know how to cook. Like, it's just, that's what he does. He's built Michael Jordan's empire for the last 30 years. Like, the guy knows the business. You know, he's been doing it for five years now.

So, you know, Curtis has just been fantastic for our team and certainly a pioneer. I believe in a trailblazer for new ideas that our team uses every single time we hit the racetrack and how we do business and certain things. And so I can tell you this personally that I'm proud of being in business with him. Yeah, Chris Yates, NASCAR's lead attorney, is quoted, I don't think Mr. Polk really understands the sport. I think he came into it in his view is it should be much more like the NBA or other league sports, but it's not.

No motorsport is like that. He's done a lot of things that might work. in the NBA or might be okay in the NBA, but are just not appropriate in NASCAR. I wouldn't say all motor. I wouldn't wrap it up and say all motor sports. Are there any key dates that are coming up in this case that will be like the next step in the process? Yeah, I think the next one is May 9th. I think the May 9th is the appeal will be heard in Richmond, Virginia, actually. So they appealed. the judge's ruling to grant us the injunction, that appeal will be heard by a panel on May 9th.

But other than that, right now, I mean, we have, you know, we're all just going through the discovery process, which will take months. Does NASCAR countersuing, does that, like, add another step into this? Like, now, do you like you restart a trial in a way? Yeah, yeah, I think, again, I'm, I am learning this on the fly, but it's essentially just another case and, you know, that this judge will hear. It's the same judge. And so, yeah, it's, you know, we'll go through the same process, I believe, on this case that we're going through on, you know, our original suit with them. Do you wish you were a lawyer instead of a race car driver? I'm fascinated by it. I am. I truly am.

And I know NASCAR fans, you know, roll their eyes, you know, because, you know, they just want to see, you know, racing, right? And it's totally understandable. But for me, I am wildly, I don't know if entertained is the right word, but just fascinated with, like, how this process works. And, you know, what is legal? what isn't legal. It's just, I should have paid more attention in school, for sure. Yeah, but in what class were you taking legal stuff, though? I wasn't.

I was going to help you with this. I wasn't. I never was. I essentially slept through high school because all I did was care about racing. And, you know, I had a work program that I was part of. And I literally just went from school to work. And then I went from work to the race shop to work on the cars, and I would get home at 11, 12 o'clock at night.

And I'd be too freaking tired to do my homework. So I just, I had, I was, I'm telling you, the only reason I got a high school diploma is because the education system was tired of me. And they said, here's your diploma. Get out. Please leave. I got out by the skim. But, you know, it was interesting.

Like, I had bad grades. failing grades. But like they were also borderline. You know, a lot of it was because I wouldn't turn things in because I wouldn't do it because I was just too freaking tired. And, and I'm serious. But like, I remember there was a final exam. I had to get like a B plus or better. I had failed the whole time, but a B final exam or B plus would bring my average up enough to graduate. A's the thing. Because I actually tried. I tried. I'm like, oh, I guess, I guess, or first, I really want to get out of here. I might want to buckle down and do good on this final exam.

And I did. Typical Denny. If I would have tried, I would have had all these. Exactly. I would have tried. I don't think I ever got on a roll. I mean, not even as like a young, young student. Don't let my kids hear this because I, you know, but I was such a,

I just was such a bad student. We'll wrap up this podcast, but we're obviously filming this on location, still out here in Phoenix, Scottsdale. What's your plans for this week? Me and Young Money, we're going to be probably when this comes out, we're going to be teeing it off. Monday morning, we're going to play some golf. Wait, so you guys are friends? I mean, fans think that you guys are like mortal enemies. They don't know what they don't know.

He tried to shake and bake tonight. It didn't work, but they tried. He tried, man. He, he, Tony, he hit the back of me. He gave me some pretty good nitrous burst a few times to stay beside the 20. Jared posted a photo of you and Kyle fist pumping, and I comment, I go, Jared's favorite driver and Denny Hamlin. Pretty much. Oh, you ought to see him during qualifying.

I'm on a golf cart on the way back to the bus. I've done my media everything I'm done what you know I'm because of my metric so terrible I go out way before Willie B who's last and I we pull out of the tunnel we get to the bus side I see the 24 pop up and and I can just see Jared I take a glimpse up in the mirror

and he's like oh AP hey can he give me a ride back in there I'm like oh really what do you got to go in there for you try to be quiet Travis like Denny gets off the car he's at the door of his golf great AP can you give me a ride back in there then he turns around you should walk back in exactly that's right yeah all right well so we're going to golf tomorrow the weather's supposed to be like total crap here in Phoenix this week so I don't know it's supposed to be cold and rainy I

I don't get it at least we hey at least we had a great weather day for a race like Holy crap. It was terrible Friday. Not going to be great the next few days. We got 60s and 70s here on Cornelius next few days. Yeah. Well, I'm going to hang out here and then go to, yeah, Vegas Thursday or Friday. So that's it.

That's my West Coast swing. It's kids spring break, so. They're running wild. I think you just need to leave them with Jared for a day. If someone has a good enough, if someone has a good enough sound system and the mics are good when you post this, you probably hear them screaming outside in the pool right now. I haven't heard him,

but Jared was saying how much he was enjoying him earlier today that he wanted to hang out with them alone. Were they wearing you out, Jared? Not they. Not they. Molly is a saint as usual. It's your oldest daughter that, uh, sorry. No, I'm not sorry. She was picking on Charlie too.

I enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, we will see y'all. Also, hold on. Shout out to Logitech, though, for helping us get this podcast out today. Thank you, Logitech. They got us some remote mics. Crazy you don't hear the kids. Yeah. They got us some remote mics to do this out in Phoenix. You know, I'm sure you guys don't want this to be a regular habit where we're on location.

But thank you. You got to set up with the cameras, the mics, everyone. So thank Logitech. Got a review here from Java Racer. I don't miss a single episode of actions detrimental because it is an insightful look into the thought of a very polarizing driver. While I'm a Chevy fan, Hendrick Mosley, I find my respect for Denny growing more each week, five stars. I can't believe how many people I saw tweet at NASCAR

or someone after this race saying, dang it, I wish Denny had won. Really? I got to check one. I noticed that today. Man. Maybe they're starting to feel sorry for me. you think?

I think they just miss a Denny Hamlin victory, you know? We do too. I'm not going to say it. Next time I win. You'll be glad I won. Let's just say that. All right. Hopefully Vegas.

All right. We'll see you all after Vegas next week. Appreciate it.