Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Pocono: Chase Briscoe Didn’t Get Lucky

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Denny Hamlin is back after taking last week off for the birth of his son. Denny and his co-host, Jared Allen, chat about things happening off the track and on the track, where Denny almost won at Pocono on Sunday. 3:00 The Hamlin family is now at 5 with the birth of Jameson Drew Hamlin10:15 Recap of Denny’s performance at Fanatics Fest18:30 Ohio State’s football team has a gift for Denny20:40 Connor Zilisch wins race with Dale Jr. as the crew chief26:00 Layne Riggs wins Truck Series as bad luck continues for Corey Heim30:00 Why Denny couldn’t pass Chase Briscoe for the lead42:15 How close was Briscoe to running out of gas46:45 Brad Keselowski pits when pit road is closed54:45 The 19 team executed and should celebrate58:00 The Bracket Challenge is set for next week Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Actions Detrimental merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.For more Actions Detrimental content: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental FanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

UFC punching, so basically the machine where you hit it and it gives you a one to a 1,000 score. Byron did beat me by 6. I think he was 686 and I was 681. I thought you're a fighter. I reminded Byron there's other ways to win a fight. Don't think that this is just like, don't f*** with me is what I'm saying. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. opinions from tonight's podcast strictly biased you're going to hear from my point of view

I'm a fighter no you are not the spoils a victory for Jared Allen he's got better luck the brick and drink to win I know you do two trophies missing from your collection of championship and the most popular driver someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure yeah and I've already said hey guys welcome to action's detrimental post where do we're Pocono. It's crazy the weeks go together the way they did. My first, my brain said Michigan, but we did that one already. We didn't do last week. Sorry we missed you guys last week after Mexico.

Any quick takeaways we had for Mexico? Did we talk about Mexico? Travis and I got together and did a little. What did you do? You all had a podcast? Yeah. No, you did. We did.

We pulled some audio from preseason with some predictions just to see how they were doing that we had and then quickly chatted about some drivers. What was the one prediction that I said was... I feel like an idiot or an... I didn't listen to y'all's podcasts. Really? Well, you had some things going on.

I told you to get a fill-in. Yeah, we did. Who? Who? We tried. Jared and I, we tried to get some other drivers. Y'all just did one-on-one? Yeah, we tried to get Ryan Truex to come on.

He was busy. Driver of the 11 car. and Tyler were busy. I even tried to get Ricky. He was busy. Ricky did text me. That Tuesday, we did this on Wednesday. I heard from Ricky's social guy on,

just right before we were recorded. He was out in L.A. Yeah. Ricky has a social guy? Uh-huh. Wow. Yeah. All right.

My takeaways were, um, I don't know. It was a, it was kind of a butt-wopin by SVG. Um, You know, I think the NASCAR and Prime group did a really good job of making it compelling. When it, you know, when the on-track product wasn't super compelling, you know, they did a good job of telling other stories, which is fantastic.

You know, they signed off after this week. And, yeah, just it's certainly going to miss those guys the way they do things to production, the storytelling they do. It's just fantastic what they've put together there, especially the group of talent that they put together. How's the family of five doing? They are doing good. I tell you, had I won this week, I would be on an unprecedented heater.

I mean, I still probably am. On the track, off track, like, we're white hot right now. You got a Denny Hamlet, baby, too. On the 11th. On the 11th, I could. I mean, trust me, we didn't plan this to happen, A, during Mexico City Week, nor on the 11th. 611. But, but when she went to the doctor on Tuesday, that was the 10th.

Yeah. They says, okay, you need to leave here and just go to the hospital. That's not, do not pass go. Do not collect $200. just go to the hospital. And we're looking and they're like, it's the 10th and like, okay, yeah, we're ready. Let's do this. This schedule kind of works out. I can still go on and do my thing this, this weekend. So we went there and, you know, it seemed as though they weren't in a super big hurry when we got there. And we're looking at the clock and we're at the time we got kind of get all

settled in. It's four hours until the 11th. and we're thinking, you know, it would be kind of cool to have a June 11th baby. And I didn't realize my first cup win came on June 11th. Oh, really? At Pocono. Yes. I didn't realize that. I saw the stat on NASCAR Prime.

It was like, holy crap. Same birthday as Jamison's. So, but yeah, it was, listen, the, you know, the pushing for Molly, the pushing. for Taylor was so much shorter. When I say so much, a few minutes here and there for especially Molly. But this was a long, long, hard, hard labor for Jordan. And yeah, it happened in the afternoon. Yeah, in the afternoon.

It started the morning of the 11th and went all the way to the afternoon before the little bugger came out Finally. But, you know, he didn't get a name till three days later. Like we're leaving the hospital. We're like, are you got to give us, you got to give us a name. What took you so long? So we were using technology to simplify it. What we did, and this is a very interesting process,

is that we came up with probably, let's call it 12 names that we liked. some of them we knew that we liked as maybe first or middles but we just here was 12 names and my my niece katelyn actually helped with this so she took those 12 names she took a picture of the piece of paper of our 12 names that we like went to chat gbt and says create a spreadsheet with all the combinations of these names well so then it spits out a you know a thousand names right and so then I go through them and I highlight which ones I like. So then we tell Chet, GBT, okay, take out, you know, any combinations with this name as a first name, because I like it only as a middle name.

So then it narrows it down. It keeps shrinking it and keeps shrinking it. And then finally it gets to the final, like 38 names or so. And then Jordan's like, okay. I can't decide. You're just going to have to decide. And then so I texted her and her sister, the picture of him,

and then I said, introducing blank, blah, blah, and then she's like, ah, I know someone with that middle name. He had four names originally.

His name was James Drew Miller, Hamlin. And so, we were then like you know what how can we she's like let's change it I was like okay

I'm fine I mean we're on the clock we're checking out here the pick is in the pick is in but you know just you know JD had a

you know I wanted to keep JD in the name I'm a JD JD Gibbs obviously was a huge um person in my life in my race

career. James Dean also was a huge part. He was my car owner in late models. He essentially was the team that I drove for when J.D. Gibbs found me. So there's just, there was too many J.D.s that were important in my life to not have him be a J.D. And so at that point, you know, the son of James, which is myself, is Jameson. And so I went with Jameson and then Drew to kind of keep the D. Hamlin going as well. I bounced around a bunch of different D names and Drew just felt best to me. There's no rhyme or reason behind that. And then we dropped the Miller.

Miller Gibbs was very disappointed to see we dropped the Miller, by the way. We would have had the full, full Gibbs crowd in there. Yeah. Yeah, I was surprised. I thought it was cool how you hearing that story and how you went about the names. Because going up to it, when I came over for the first time, I asked Jordan, I was like, what's his name?

And she's like, you know. And I was like, James Jet? I had no idea. For those that don't know, in my inner circle, I've tried to sell her on James Jet for a very, very long time. I think I had wore her down enough to get that through the goal line. But we just, we came up with others that, you know, there was one in particular. We came really close to. Miles Miller.

That was really close. I liked the, if we didn't go with JD, I liked first and middle initials to be the same because it just kind of rolls off the tongue. But anyway, we have a James and Drew is what we have. And he is amazing. He's been sleeping extremely well. So yeah, we are a family of five.

And Molly seems to be over the moon. This is her baby. I mean, you know, how she carries around the fake baby dolls. She's doing that now with a real baby doll. I mean, just toting this thing all around the house and we're kind of like, but we would know that she would sacrifice her body if she tripped before hurting that child. Let's give a quick update here on Fanatics Fest last week.

Jared, I told you, when I did the red carpet for the 4040 club at Fanatics Fest, I correctly they asked me for my game seven NBA finals prediction I says Oklahoma City wins this game by 12 they won the game by 12 and then we had a bet you owe me $20 I reminded you thank you I said Tom Brady would win fanatics fest athletic competition so and he did so where did I how did I do this is an important thing right traf very important Could not get beat by Byron. No. Well, I didn't.

I think I beat him in six of the eight competitions. He was surprisingly better than I thought, though, in quite a few things. Soccer, hockey. He actually got unlucky in hockey. And you had to knock these pucks in the hole of a washer and dryer that are stacked on top of each other. So, like, this is not easy. And so he, I mean, he rimmed out on some hockey. points by less than an inch like many of his pucks so i think my intro essentially is what

carried my weight uh in the standings um how many total were there including fans like the fans did really well because i'm sure all they did was trained for this thing i think they were like 60 yeah so so what this is and if you're not don't understand or didn't haven't followed my social channels is that Fanatics Fest in New York held basically a competition of, you know, you had to kick into certain areas of a soccer goal and you get certain points if it's in a smaller hole or if it's up high or low. A hockey puck, you have to, you know, flick hockey puck into a dryer and a washer and a dryer. And obviously, if you hit the higher target, it's more points.

MLB strike zone pitch, so official strike zone distance from the mound. So the more strikes that you throw, the more points you get. Football throw. This one was tough on the old rotator cuff. I was very disappointed, though, that I was only able to hit two of the targets from 10 yards. That was not good. That Byron had the same, and we all missed the 20-yard target. And then what else do we have?

Punching? No, so punching, UFC punching. So basically the machine where you hit. hit it and it gives you a 1 to a 1,000 score. Byron did beat me by 6. I think he was 686 and I was 681. I thought you said you're a fighter. I've reminded Byron there's other ways to win a fight so don't think that this is just a, you know, don't f***ke with me is what I'm saying.

But no, listen, I, I've got rotator cuff surgery, man. I didn't realize until after I haven't thrown anything for one year. It showed. It was horrible. I mean, my follow-through hurt so bad. I thought my shoulder was fully healed until I actually picked up a baseball or football, and I was like, holy crap, I can't throw 10 yards. And so that really hindered me, but there was no excuse for not performing well.

And the two events that I was planning on being money, basketball, choked it up, golf choked it up. Well, the golf was tough because I'm left-handed and they didn't have a club lower. They had a pitching wedge and I'm like, I need a sandwich. Like I'm rocketing this thing over the green. I'm online just too long.

And they're like, we don't have a sandwich. Well, that's on them then. I mean, come on, man. You're fanatics. So I, you only had five shots. I put two on the green. The other were right behind the green. One was on the, like,

on the green and the guy's like oh it looks like fringe come on so that sucked I didn't perform well in the two events that I'm definitely the strongest at but still 37th out of 60 some legit athletes I undersold that it was 98

contestants not bad I beat some NFL guys right yeah so some noteworthy names that you are quote unquote more athletic then because this was an event of athletic competition you know where was baron uh he was 74th um Kevin Durant Julian Edelman that's kind of surprising wow yeah Travis Hunter the you know both sides of the football guy you were better than Bryce young I heard DJ Khalid he looked good in soccer he was good

in soccer hold on Bryce young I heard he got beat by Dwight Howard in the football football throwing competition. No, math is mathing. That's not good. But did you see Joe Burrow throwing baseballs? That also wasn't good.

Whoa. Is there one event that you felt like you could have been better at that surprised you? Take out the golf because you golf and we know that you're

just a fine golfer. Play the basketball. I think I did okay in hockey. I got two of the pucks in the, what's up top? The washer or the dryer? I don't do.

The dryer, I think. Okay. The jar is up top. Okay, yeah. I got two in there, and that was key. Soccer, being that I really didn't have to get the ball off the ground, like I feel like I should have been able to hit more five-point targets in the corner of the goals. But I didn't.

And the last thing. I mean, you remember, you got these people all around every event, like, it's tight quarters. Yeah, and you're, you know, you're under the gun. doesn't it feel like too good to be true in a way that Tom Brady do you think that him and Michael Rubin perhaps said what are you good at? Okay let's make those the confidence. He probably had the whole setup at his house too.

But he had, but one thing is one thing though is that it did cover most of the major sports. I was just like, come on, where's the iris and rig? Let's run lap times. Yeah, NASCAR and he's. get themselves a bigger presence at Fanatics Fest next year. Yes, NASCAR, you got to step up at Fanatics Fest because there are tons of people.

They are all young. You got to have a presence. Every other sport was there. And the cool part was that when all of these athletes and celebrities were going through and doing these events, the crowd just swarms the event, right? So if you have an eye racing rig there, you know, Tom Brady's in the rig. You can put his screen up on a big screen and everyone's watching Tom Brady try to run a lap. Wait, were you there, Jared?

Yeah. Yeah, it was there. Couldn't tell, could you? No. What? Denny Hamlin meets Demar Hamlin video is... God, tell me,

talking about making me feel old. I know we haven't gotten to the racing yet. Sorry, guys. But when he's like, oh, my God, I have looked up to you ever since I was in middle school. I said, oh, don't age me like that, bro. He's like, yeah, I used to tell people

who were cousins. He was excited. excited to meet you. He was very excited. He had sent me a few DMs a few months ago about coming to a race and we were trying to coordinate that. But yeah, I'd love to go to a Bill's game. By the way, that new stadium, it is ready this year, right? Not to check. I think it is. So we're going to have to use that connection to go to a Bill's game. Highmark Stadium opens 2026. It's probably one more year. Starting with the 2026 NFL season. So I will not be this year. No, 25 season. Really? Okay.

All right. Let's talk about cars. Well, hold on. We've got one more off track. We have a gift for you and we have a gift for Jameson. The gift from Jameson is on behalf of me and Charlie and the other one is on behalf of Ohio State to you. Okay.

Let's see what we got here. This is for Jameson. The rest is from Ohio State. They reached out to me. Yes. Wow. Hold on. There we go.

We can use this to practice next year. Fanatics Fest games. College football, 2025. We went all the way, didn't we, Charlie? You know how many people I have saying O.H to me now? It's an absurd amount. Good. Congrats on the victory and representing Ohio.

Just so you know, the old D.H. legal team a lot of Michigan grads we got shirts hats hoodies water bottles thank you and who gave me this this is on behalf of Charlie and me

I'm being nice and attaching Charlie's name to it well thank you fellas I appreciate that we will represent this upcoming college football season hey it's Dale Jr did you know that we've got brand new merch from our Starstrike and beers collection available now.

We've got tanks, teas, beach towels, and more just in time for summer. Check it all out at shop.dirtymodea.com. Not a racing. Yep. NASCAR are working on a deal to finalize a street course race in San Diego. Um. I mean, I don't hate it. I certainly think that San Diego sounds like a place I'd like to go.

I mean, sure, I guess. I mean... You're going to have a street race somewhere. Yeah, it seems like they're really in favor of street races and building these things out. So if they're hell-bent on it, then San Diego seems like a great destination to do that. We're at Pocono this weekend. You want to start with the Xfinney race? Dale Jr., winning crew chief, Connor Zillich, wins the Xfinney race?

Yeah. I think that I think we got to give Dale Jr. a little bit of do and certainly don't want to undersell the fact that the team was doing the heavy lifting and, you know, I don't,

I agree, listen, I think that the answer is somewhere in between of, you know, Cowbush says he's nothing but a warm body up there. You know, the TV sells it as, you know, he's an actual crew chief. I think the answer is probably somewhere in between, but it's still, you've got to be responsible, right? and so you got to get the message of the driver.

And, you know, he saw opportunities strategy-wise, and he's probably talking to the engineers about the strategy. So, yeah, I mean, the results were that he was walking to Victory Lane at the end of that race. And obviously, Connor drove that car fantastic. Came back from losing a little bit of track position on a restart. 17 car of Chase Elliott looked like the best car speed-wise. but is Connor ready for cup like you look at what SVG did last year and you look in so obviously you're going to

compare how he's doing this year and people are going to say is he? I would say that he's more prepared to cup for cup than what SVG was entering this season. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Like I think SVG is getting better on the ovals. Certainly it's starting to show probably over the last four or five weeks or so. he's had some good legitimate runs now i would say that it seems like his performance is also connected to the uptick and track house performance um but generally speaking i think conner's

having more success than exfinity now the two are not the same because you know SVG was driving for colleague you know connor's driving a jrm car which is you know the best cars on the racetrack and so i think that there's um but But as far as being ready, I didn't think SVG was ready and short of his Mexico win. I think that that's proving to be true. But yet, he's getting there. He's proving that he's getting better. He's starting to get the hang of this.

And as he goes to tracks for a second time, he's going to get better as well. So that's going to continue to progress. and Connor, I think, would perform maybe not as good as SVG on the road courses right away, but has the potential to be there pretty quickly. And probably we'll perform a little better on the ovals. So what kind of result would you have? I mean, the difference is, right, is winning an oval race in Xfinity and winning an oval racing cup is, I can't even tell you.

tell you the difference it's not even major league baseball to triple a it's what's below that and what's below that like it's it's it's such a huge jump these guys are fast they um it's hard ask any ex finity guy over the last five to six years that won like eight races and then has struggled to you know get top 15s top 20s and cup it's just it's just to step up in competition is pretty huge. But it's, you know, if there's ever a prospect that's going to be able to do it, I think that Connor's showing enough to me to, to, uh, to garner that. It's his first oval win. Is, is, is it more impressive that like this first oval win comes at, you know, Pocono? Because it's not like a traditional oval, right? Versus like an actual oval. Like, is it more difficult to win at

Pocono than say like Charlotte or any other traditional oval with four turns? You're probably not asking the right guy that, you know, people talk about all the time how difficult Pocono is. I don't think it's super difficult, but I think that it just fits my style. I think that's the reason why I've had success there. But there's been others that they go there and just they can't hit their ass with both hands. And it's just, and they're great at other tracks. And it's just, I don't know. I think it could be a style thing. So I don't know. It might be a track that fits Connor style like it did for me back in my rookie season. But yeah, it's definitely difficult.

It's an oval. I don't care what you, you go in circles. You don't go, you know, left and right. So you count that as an oval win for him. And it's looking like, you know, he's picking up speed as the season's going on. I think he's going to give Algar. And again, the difference is this championship is going to be set by. who wins Phoenix and i think it will be tough to beat just now gar at phoenix

regardless whether connor could win out the next 20 races or 15 races it just doesn't matter when they go down to phoenix who's going to win there i'm still going to give justin the nod i skipped over the truck race but lane lane riggs won friday night in the trucks yeah i he qualified on the pole as well is that that that's correct i believe that's correct um they've they've got a great team over there. Front row is doing a great job. I know his crew chief over there. Dylan is fantastic. And so, yeah, they're clicking off wins now kind of on a regular basis. And it seems to me they're one of the top challengers to Corey Heim, week in, week out. How unlucky is that kid, though? I mean, what the hell? It's about to say Lane Race comes with the W, but Corey Heim was also,

you know, up front for the... It's freaking unbelievable. He finds. new way. Yeah, and it ain't him. It's something else or someone else that, that's, that's keeping but listen, it's just one of those things where everybody with two eyes and a brain can see that he probably should have won just about every race that they've had. Yes, he's gotten unlucky, and yes, it sucks because you're not getting the wins in the wind column, but you're not changing the way people think about you and your talent he's still 124 points ahead that's sick because it could be over 200 so easily which is like means he could quit right now and still win the regular season championship yeah he could easily have eight plus wins yeah uh cup race this weekend you won the

poll on on on saturday yep a little surprising considering kind of practice i think i was 26 or 27th. I don't know, maybe just knocking some rust off. I didn't think so. I just thought the balance of the car was a little bit off. And it was. And unfortunately for us, it reared its little head there

towards the end of the race as well, where we just didn't quite have the balance we needed to put enough pressure on the 19 to run harder. But yeah, we had a, overall good weekend. We weren't good in practice. We made great adjustments for qualifying. Carr did everything I needed it to do. And then if I just would have had that balance for all the

race, I felt very confident in what I had. And I did for the first stage. But then as the track just getting warm and warmer, Sunday was coming out, we just lost the balance just a little bit. and then mainly track position. I mean, this, listen, I understand the backlash and people were talking about, you know, a guy saving fuel, running 80%, shouldn't be able to hold off cars that are right up, you know, on them, pushing 100%.

But this has been Pocono for 30 years. It's been this way. Maybe not quite as bad. The only difference is that there was an opportunity there. So what's different in next gen versus what it was previously? is that when I did get to Briscoe, there was a couple times early in the run and then one time late in the run.

When I dove off in there a couple times, what would have been different with the other generation car is that when I dove in there, instead of trying to avoid him and go to a different lane, which you saw me shoot up high, I would have just shot right for his rear bumper, gotten him loose, got him up the racetrack, and then got beside him.

This car, obviously, he's got the, tremendous aerodynamic advantage where he's got all the air coming down on his car, pushing it down on the racetrack. When I drive in and he just, at the time, I think he was kind of running the middle lane, I was running the bottom, getting a run. He comes down. As soon as he puts me in his full wake, I mean, my car just takes off. And I think you saw that quite a few times.

And so the track just isn't wide enough. You know, what's different here versus a track. like Michigan. You know, in the same scenario, if you remember, I kind of wore Byron down there at the end, is that I had more lanes to work with to get clean air at Michigan than what I did at Pocono. So Pocono, while it is two lanes wide, the wake of the car actually is wider than that. So if you think about a slipstream of a car, let's just say the car, give me that car. I got it.

You know, if I'm here, right, in the car, you can see this on TV. Yeah. Okay. So when it's coming off here and it's hitting this car, it's, this air is creating a turbulence. I'm going this way. So it's creating a turbulence that just goes out. Now, it does. It fans out.

Yes, it fans out. So what works at a track like at Michigan and Kansas and all these other trains. is that, you know, I know that, okay, I don't want to be one lane. I need to be two lanes away from them to get away from all this weight and disturbed air on the right side of the car or left side. Where Pocono, when you only got two lanes, it doesn't matter how, even if you're one full lane out, you're still getting a bunch of that dirty air on your car. And it's really why this next-gen car, that kind of the depth.

sit to it besides the fact that the leader has the can manipulate more than the second place guy you know again i think we need to have more outer body down force less underbody to get the back of the cars back up it's just the track's not wide enough for us for me to go to a complete different lane and even if he tries to steer up to that lane then i'll shoot to another lane it's just too narrow and and we've seen from the end of time, from the beginning of time with this car, it needs multiple lanes of racetrack. It does not like running in any wake of any car, which is why the racing on the road courses and short tracks have really struggled with this car is that there's just, you don't have multiple lanes.

It's the wider the track, the better the racing is going to be until they really change something aerodynamically with it. So you can run right behind him going down any of the. long front stretches. Yep, right? And then you're in his wake and you're drafting on him. Mm-hmm.

Can you not just like try and keep that going through each corner? Is that possible? No, because we're not at the limit of the tire grip down the straightaway. So I don't need, so there's a certain amount of load and grip that the tire,

you know, down force that it needs for the tire to go down there and the car to have grip. But we're in the corners, you can't see it, but we're actually sliding through the whole corners. and we're on that edge. On the straightaways,

that's why you can see that we run into each other on the straightaways and the cars don't wreck, but if you run into each other in the corners, they do wreck. It's because we're running on the edge of that tire's grip.

And so what happens is I go into the corner if I stay just right behind him, I'm not going to continue to gain on him and suck up to him. It's because he's running to the limit of that tire and grip, but he has all the downforce, all the clean air pushing down on his

car saturating that tire and creating grip where what my car is doing is that now that i'm in this dirty air i don't have anything pushing down on my car so now the tires are just kind of skipping across the track because it doesn't have weight pushing down on it so that's kind of essentially what's going on there did you think at any point in that run that you were going to get to him no not one bit i i kept asking i think they mentioned on the broadcast i asked with ten to go. Are you confident he's going to run out or not? Because at that point, it was unfortunate I had Blaney so close to me because, yes, would I have tried to just do something different, go run up in the gray on corner entry or corner exit? Yes, I would have, but I didn't want to

lose second in case Briscoe ran out. So I kept asking, is he going to run out or not? Because I'm, I'm I can make another run at him, but if I make a run at him and he blocks it and I end up losing a lot of speed, I'm going to lose second and I'm going to feel really stupid if I lose second and he runs out on the white flag lap. So it kind of put me in a really tough position to where I'm sitting behind him. I'm trying to get my stuff ready to make a run at him. and I was able to do it with like three to go. I made one last charge at them,

but immediately when I got within two, three-tenths, I mean, my car just took off. It's just the aerodynamic effect of that leader versus second place with corner speeds as high as they are at Pocono. And as flat as the racetrack is, too. You don't have the banking to help load the car. You need all the air. I just, it was impossible.

going to have to miss corners for me to remotely get close. So were you racing Blaney for the majority of that run, knowing that if Briscoe ran out, you just need to make sure you don't get past by Blaney? Yeah, it was a cause and effect. So after I made some pretty good attempts to get by him early in that run, I realized I'm not going to. All I'm going to do is just destroy my shit, you know, this run, and then have nothing left for him if I need to make a run at him late.

At that point, then I'm just managing my gap to the 12th. and then trying to keep him honest enough to where he can't let off the throttle late in the straightaways. But I would lose so much ground in the corners because of the dirty air that it allowed him to just save so much fuel. Did you have a chance that you could have beat Briscoe on the restart with 30 to go starting on the outside? Starting on the outside? No. I started on the inside. Inside.

Yep. And I was hoping I'd get a push because, man, we had a great opportunity. but the 17 just didn't get to my back bumper, not at all on that restart. And so I'm hoping that he pushes me, we get a run, and then I can pass Briscoe, because I thought that Briscoe was a little bit vulnerable

into one on restarts. And if you look, I actually almost got to his bumper, even though I was more than a car link back on corner entry. But I felt like, you know, I contemplated as like, do I start on the outside, get him to the lead, get me to second, and then make a run at him? Losers choose behind the leader.

So I'm like, screw it. If I go back to third, at least I give my chance an opportunity, myself an opportunity to get pushed by him on the restart. But once the leader clears off a turn two, good luck. I mean, at that track, this car, you got to be an absolute dummy to lose the lead. Only you know how many more Pocono races you have in your career, but does it like eat at you that, you know, that could have been eight and you might not get eight?

Technically, I've had eight. You're wearing that, right? One in 2020, no matter what happens. We're decued for a piece of electric tape. Does that count? So does that count in the record? No. No.

Right. Okay. Well, the way you said it made it sound like, oh, I got. eight in the i i don't care what the record shows we won the race okay you know what i mean i know it in my heart then he goes to bed at night with eight yeah will your rock be bigger out front because of that huh will your rock be bigger a little bigger no i don't think that matters um i mean yes and no i want to be clicking off wins when we're fast like we are you know kansas is a heartbreaker right

i mean i'm looking at our finishes over the last two months thinking holy we could have five, six wins here, like, so easily, but we had blown engines and mechanical failures and had to pit for fuel at Charlotte. Reckton, Daytona. Just lots of, you know, side by side entering for the lead at Phoenix. Like, we're really running well. So I don't want to, you know, the positive is, is like, we're going to win a lot more if we just keep, you know, performing the way we are.

Yes, you know, wins are hard to get. But the defining moment of that race was when Briscoe pitted and like four or five others pitted, and then the caution came out. I remember I restarted, I think at the end, maybe this started stage three. No, it was the end of stage two. Briscoe, because he caught that caution, had the lead with the same amount of tires and fuel than I did. I restarted 19th. And it was like, I knew at that point there were now on the same.

same strategy and he's 18 cars in front of me. Him and these other guys that caught that same caution, that's the name of a game at Pocono. If you can catch cautions and get track position, again, you can have the 20th fastest car and win that race easily, just because of how narrow it is and everything I explained with the dirty air.

So I feel proud that we were able to drive back to second, truthfully, and we did it legitimately. there was no strategy, no nothing. We just had good restarts. My car could pass when others couldn't in dirty air. And you asked me on the plane, why can you pass for second, third, fourth, fifth, but not for first? And I explained to you that, well, the leader, so when I'm racing for fifth, let's just

say fifth, the fifth place guy is getting dirty air from the first through fourth. So his car is not optimized. So when I'm in sixth, I'm not at that big of a disadvantage versus him than what I am with the first place to a second place. So you'll see passes and I did it throughout the day. And other cars, you know, the 17 was able to pass well. It looked like the six at the end. We were able to, we can pass right up until we get to the lead. But then the deficit, the delta from first to second aerodynamically,

is the width of this table. The difference in fifth to six is about this much. So if you have a car better, you still have to be better by a significant amount. But with difference in first and second, I mean, I am very confident of this. If I backed off the 19 car by a second, I could run to him in two laps.

It showed with the speed that we had when we fired off, when we ran our Xfinity fastest lap, we were five-tenths, four or five-tenths faster than nine. those first two laps after that, after we came out under green, we were hauling ass. And I was like, let this thing run green

because I am going to roll him in in no time. And he had cars in front of him as well, so it would have been much easier for me to get around him. But, you know, he was short on fuel. I'm coming with a head of steam miles faster. But that's the brakes, you know. And sometimes you need some good breaks to go your way to win Pocono.

You know, we didn't have any that were, we had a good car. I thought one of the best, if not the best. But you can't beat a ill time caution. It's just too tough there. How shocked are you that he was able to save enough fuel? Well, when they said, they said initially, I asked him how short he was. They said three to four laps or something like that. And I was like, whoa.

I'm thinking in Miles, whoa, that's a long way. he's not getting that and then the caution came in that you know inside that last fuel window and I was like and that caution took forever I think it was like three laps before we actually caught up to the pace car and was like damn it this is going to get him three quarters of the way there he's probably only going to be one short one and a half short now he's got to run 30 laps or so he can get it he can get a a lap or two out of saving and especially just backing us and the 12 up like all you got to do is just put us in your wake and we just can't go anywhere so they did everything they had to do they coached them really really well i thought james did did a fantastic job coaching him and him and his engineers and he executed

perfectly prime made it exciting certainly because they you know they came off pit road and they're playing some audio from the 19 team and like we are on fuel and made it sound real confident. Travis was real confident that he was running out. I did too. Oh, I was like, here we go. This is ours. I did too. I thought he was going to run out, which is why I'm kind of, that's why that whole run, I'm just kind of sitting behind him thinking he's going to run out. I want to stay close enough to where he can't let off super early into corners. But, man, I'd lose three car links every corner and I'd gain two down the straightaway. So I just, it wasn't enough. I was just waiting for Dale to yell. Like he's, he's, he's, he's,

out of fuel and it just never came. Yeah, and I mean, we're looking at the same tools that they are as far as fuel mileage and our team thought that he was maybe a half a lap short. I think Gail said there's no guarantee. Yeah, no, he told me that I would count on him making it. Same thing that he told us at Michigan, like with the 24, like, go pass them. I wish it was that easy at Pocono. Michigan, I felt confident in our speed that, like, I was going to go get Byron.

but at Pocono is just, gosh, that leader, I can't think of another track where a leader has an advantage as much as Pocono just because of the track layout and how, you know, it's fast corners, low banking, next-gen car, narrow track, indie, indie's worse. That's the only one. I asked my question earlier about the career wins because it's got to feel pretty badass going to bed at night

knowing like, you know, no one's better than me at this particular place. And if you have eight, like statistically on the record books and 100 years from now, and no one's going to know like, oh, this guy actually won nine but had one taking one. Right. Right. Yeah, I'm not bug by it too much. I'm happy with the accomplishments that we've had at that track and been able to win with different cars, different tires, different arrows, stuff like that. mentioned it on the broadcast that I think that the one thing that's made it easy is that you still make speed at that track the same way

no matter how, what has changed. Where other tracks, you definitely make speed different ways being that we've got lower horsepower, down force levels different. I've had to adapt my style at other tracks, but never at Pocono. It's always been the same. Some other noteworthy takeaways from this race,

all three 2311 cars had issues and brake rotor issues. is that correct? Yeah, I don't know what's going on over there, but they've had, you know, typically when JGR doesn't have break issues, 2311 does, and I don't know why, but I wish I could give you more insight on it,

but they obviously all three had break issues, and we've got to figure that out, because, you know, they're, they had things going really well, but, man, it is, it's painful right now. When that happens, is that like a part defect or is it a way you set up the car? No, it could be, it's set up, you know, when you just blanket the word set up. But it's, you know, you put it together.

You decide how much cooling you have. You decide the parts and pieces you decide to put on. That's, you know, it's a set up quote unquote thing. Some more bad luck for Brad Kosalski. First pits when pit road is closed. This isn't bad luck. Well, the second, the second portion is you pit. then the caution immediately comes out and then you're the the pace car has really bright lights on the

back of it and when the pit road is open those lights are green and they are flashing and when it's closed they are red and they are flashing i i thought he was trying to bait one of us into going to pit lane and then he steers off and catches us going ha ha ha ha trick to you guys pit road's closed but that's what me and carson were doing we're like six is going down there And at that time, I steer down there like I'm going. I knew the whole time that it was closed, obviously. I see these bright lights that are flashing red. And so I'm like, surely six is going to swerve off of this.

Nope, he's not. I'm like, what the hell is going on? But it happens. It's not the first time that it's ever happened. But, you know, it is, you know, there's, there's, plenty of warnings that pit road and really the spotter too i you know t j he's back usually they're telling the team and the driver pit road's open pit road's closed i don't know i didn't hear any of the transmission um but you know was that relayed or not well fortunately dirty mo is going to get

the whole scoop this week we will Travis will tj is off this week good god he works less than austin we have we have uh one connor's Zillich as our co-host. All right. That's cool. But I'll have to go back and check the audio on that. Who's most at fault when this happens? The driver? Driver.

By far driver. He's the one steering the car. You know, your team is, it's your team's job to tell you pit roads closed or open, but you've got to look at the, they give you two points. NASCAR gives you two points of reference. The pace car, that is, it's not like he was sixth in line and the pace car's up there. He's right behind the pace car and it is flashing red and it never flashed anything but red. And so that's, it's on the driver. Um, the save from Carson Hobson. Let's take his other

issue though. What was it? He that was bad luck, right? And I don't think it was bad luck. So he hadn't pitted yet and then the caution comes out. But they told him and his crew chief told him he wanted to pit and Jordan Bianchi brought this up. Uh, now, more than ever, drivers trying to kind of crew chief from their car is causing issues and I think that was a problem. That's right.

Always trust your crew chief. They have a much bigger picture than what you do. It did not change though. He wasn't going to win the race. We need to settle that because he wasn't up front at that time. They kept him out.

Yes. But he was just trying to he was like, well, I've got clean air now so I can go. I don't know where he was pre when other guys pitted me the 1917, but he still wasn't up there where we were at. So it's not like he was going to win the race. Did you all, did people think that? No, I don't think that, but any chance.

He wasn't going to leap us. Yeah. You know, we came out, listen, we came out firing. I ran a 52, 59, 5260 something. He's running 5360s. the second off a lap while he's out there trying to make time and clean air. All he was going to do is cost himself more positions. And the crew chief said that.

He's like, dude, we're bleeding time. So wherever we came in, we're going to come out further back. Even though, you know, so the crew chief has the information. You've got to definitely trust the crew chief. I get it in the car. You're thinking, oh, finally these guys in front of us pulled off. off. Now I can make lap time. It's still not as fast as what the guys are firing off when they come off pit road. So you will lose time to them unless they can't unless they come out right behind

traffic. And then there's a possibility you can be running faster than them, but not with this tire. So it's not bad luck because it was just a bad decision disregarding the caution. That's what I would say. but listen I think we need to give RFK continue to give them their due they put three cars than top ten again they've got speed

I'm seeing the 17 over the last few mile and a half two mile tracks definitely be one of the faster cars Michigan and now Pocono he was a top three car I'm certain of that

on speed alone You always tell by Even when there's a leader He's able to push the leader He was at Michigan He did at Pocono He couldn't pass him But he passed everyone else

Got to the leader and ran on their bumper That shows speed to me You said Boucher Yeah He was two in speed So Was okay Yeah it felt that way

From my driver's seat That I thought he was the next fastest car behind us Do you as a corner of 2311 and sit there and watch RFK and it kind of go why aren't we? No, I'm looking at

2311 versus JGR saying what the hell. That's what I'm looking at. I can't compare different manufacturers, different stuff. I can compare what I know our resources are

and it's I can't say that's speed. It is maybe a little bit of a speed. but both our cars were good in practice. The 23 was going to qualify well. The 45 did qualify well. It's just other stuff.

They cannot put together races, like from green to checkered. And it's not on one person or one thing. It's, you know, mechanicals just killed the 23 this week. other people's wrecks has killed the 23 over the last few weeks nothing he's doing i what i really appreciate is bub wallace's attitude i mean a 180 i mean weeks like this it would have to be full therapy mode in past years but i i really appreciate it makes it so much easier for us to have you know to fix these problems when we're not trying to fix an attitude problem as well it just makes it easier and he's making our job a lot easier it's on us to step up for him at this

point how long did it take you to figure that out because even yesterday you get 20 years you get out of the car and you're not nearly as pissed as what i think you'd be for finishing second race that you probably felt like you should have won yeah you just you kind of understand that you're not gonna you're not going to win them all. You're only going to win 30% of the races that you're actually the fastest car. And I think that that number's probably true over the last couple months. You know, so I don't know. It's just, it's a tough game. I wish I could control it more. I wish, you know, knowing that I had in my mind a faster car than 19, I wish I could have gone up there and pass them. I wish the track was wider so I could, you know, make something happen.

but, I mean, again, this has been Pocono for many, many years. This is not new. Briscoe wins this race afterwards. He says that this has been the least enjoyment I've had in a win. I mean, I'm still happy, but you were just expected to win when you come here. Is that because of, like, the success of the 11 cars had here? That makes it seem like, you know, JGR cars should win here. Obviously, Kyle Bush has a few wins here in the 18.

Yeah, I think it's just you're driving for one of the big three teams. Um, anybody that drives for Penske, Hendrick, or Gibbs should expect to win and not like once. We're talking multiple times. These three teams dominate the cup series. They have for decades now. They have the most resources. They have the most amount of cars on the racetrack. It's, if you are employed by one of them, you, you should win, like often, not just once.

And so I think he's like, yeah, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing at this point. I think he's underselling it. I think he still should celebrate. He did, and his team did a phenomenal job executing a race. Yes, they got a little lucky with a caution, but that's their choice. They saw that somebody, I saw him. I think it was a 71 on the apron, and I was like, oh, I hope he's not throwing tire debris or something like, we better get to pit road.

We didn't. They did. And so that's them being, they. executed the winning race and they should celebrate it accordingly. They didn't get lucky. This was his first win in the 19th, so maybe it just now feels a little differently winning in a car

that should win versus... And the 19 hadn't won in a couple years. And so, you know, I feel really good for James Small as well. Guy catches so much on social media, but he, you know, he's a really good crew chief, everyone. Don't

undersell James Small. Yes, there's been some execution issues. and whatnot, but they're fast. Like, we've seen it in qualifying. Like, they know how to make fast cars. This win now for the 19 also pushes the line up for the playoffs. Well, he was already in, but it makes it, it will make it harder. Yes.

There's five spots available. Right. Where there were six, right? So it really doesn't matter whether you're below or above or below the cut line. And he was in a spot. I mean, he was probably up 30. maybe points going in the day i don't know it really doesn't matter but he was not like a full race ahead of the cut line so after uh michigan he was 11th in points so he had a few he had a little buffer

yeah but it that doesn't matter where he is in points it matters where it points to the cut line and i think he was within one race so like one last place finish you're bam you're on the cutter below it. So this takes a tremendous amount of pressure off that 19 team. Yeah, I think that's what I'm getting at is it just got a couple road courses coming up. You got Daytona.

Yeah, it's... Yeah, Atlanta. So much stuff can happen. Bracket Challenge starts next week. You are a one seed. I love racing in two races and get the number one seed. This format's so stupid. Just like I planned it.

I was a joke. You got Ty Dillon. One seed, Denny Hamlin, 32 seed, Ty Dillon starting at Atlanta. But one-dose Speedway, it's a fucking crap shoot. I don't know. I could get taken out in the first week. I know the record shows that I beat them five to nothing, heads up at this track, but I very easily could have not.

So I don't know. Hope for the best. Are drivers going to be into this? They should be. I found it very odd that Chase Elliott didn't know anything about it. It seems like the narrative for a lot of drivers. It seems like, and I'm starting to, I thought it before with Chase Elliott that he just kind of underplays everything.

Like, I thought, well, he's saying he doesn't know this or that or the other, but I think he does. And he's just kind of underselling it so he doesn't have to talk about it. I don't believe that anymore. I believe that when he gets out of the car on Sunday, he completely tunes out anything racing other than, his team stuff, you know, doing the work he needs to do with his team. I believe it. So I'm obviously different. I'm in the sport. I'm today here. I'm a media member. So he unplugs is what

I believe because he was like, yeah, I don't know what, what's going on? Okay, I think I heard something about a tournament and, you know, what do you get? You get a million? Oh, okay, that sounds cool. I will say there is, I mean, Prime, we've been given them their flowers, but they barely talked about it because it's not really a thing for them. It's not because it's just the seating. And I think that people don't care that much about, you know, the seating aspect. I think that it will be a thing starting this weekend on T&T. They're going to highlight the battles. And certainly more than likely the bookmakers are going to have lines on all these matchups.

Which is why I think next year they need to fix the format and just go back to the. the regular seating. I think that'll help. Yeah, it could. It certainly could. Who I'm out of complain. I'm a one seat. William Byron. William Byron, though. He could, he, by seed, if he wins, will be an upset. Yeah, that's what's a little wacky.

Redick versus Larson is a first round matchup. Yeah, it's a little wacky, but yeah, I agree. Next year, just go off of points, wherever you add in points, and that be your seating. To simplify it, but I think they were trying to add content to NASCAR on Primes, five races. It just, it wasn't that big of a talking point. There were other stories to be talked about. And I think they read the temperature of the room saying that it probably wasn't something that was a huge interest to the people right now.

Yeah, and honestly, Prime didn't need it. No. They didn't need any extra talking points. We go to Atlanta this week, race on Saturday night. week atlanta 7 p.m. reminder it is now on tn t and you can watch qualifying on max i think the race right and true is on t and t and max is it yeah qualifying on true the race is on t and t and max all right everyone you got to switch over now okay we're not we're not streaming we're true tv on friday 5 p m t and t and max doing a little editing here where i'm talking

if you're a cable person true is very close to t and if you have tn tm pretty sure you have true. That's right. Yeah, they're like one channel up, one channel down. That's what they do for the NCAA tournament. Yeah, it's TBS, True and TNT. All right there. Bam, bam, bam. 245 if you have a certain network. Yeah. You're also in the Kings Hawaiian car this weekend, and we're going to Kings Hawaiian on Friday. I'm so excited to be in the Kings Hawaiian car. It is these people have been so patient all year long. I bet they're sitting there as I'm winning and leading laps and up front. They're like, God, dang it. Why didn't we get more races in the front half of the season.

Here's the thing, though. I feel like whenever you get a new sponsor come on board, you win. Yeah. Speaking of which, we also announced Bob's discount furniture is going to be on the car, I think, for at least one race this year, multiple races next year. Glad to have them aboard. My cars are bright. I like that.

Yeah, me too. I like that. So let's go get King's Hawaiian a win this weekend. Show them that they went with the right old guy. I saw the car being wrapped in at Joe Gibbs Racing. I was like, ooh,

you will be able to see me coming. The orange car is cool. Yeah, it is. I got a review here. And I'm an avid customer. I may go up in my pantry right now. So are you excited for the,

the Pretzel Bonds? Basically a store. Are you excited for the plant tour, the King's Hawaiian tour on Friday? I am. I'm always interested with my sponsors to kind of understand their business.

You know, I'm a business owner myself, right? So it's like, I love seeing kind of the, what's the business? What's the process? You know, what makes you go? You know, what makes you different from others? And so, yeah, I'm going to be excited to see that. I got a review here from Rest Stryker, 027. I've never been a Denny fan, but I've always respected his talents mostly because my mom loves him.

And I was the MTJ fan anyway. That said, this podcast is a part of my weekly. post-race routine alongside the tear-down. Love the insight from Denny and everything from on track to behind the scenes. Congrats on 700 starts. And do kind of hope you get a championship. Me too, brother.

Me too. Speaking of Teardown, I think Gluck is having an issue with you, Denny. You've been apparently aiding Jordan Bianchi and good race poll number. I wasn't going to say anything publicly about it, but yes, Bianchi, why? Did Bianchi say that he asked me?

Yankee mentioned that he talked to you yesterday in Victory Lane and the Glock was wondering why. I'm walking out of Victory Lane and he's like, hey, one question. Where's this race going to end up on the pole? And I said, 73. Where is it? I think it might be less than that. It's 50. Is it?

Yeah. I oversold it. I think a lot of it is you got to understand from my seat, right? I only see what I see. When I go re-back, go back and re-watch the race, I definitely see something different. I can see why the fans would call this 50-50 race. It's actually 52% no right now. Oh, really?

Only 48, yes. Yeah, I just think that they, the passing, there was no pass, green flag passes for the lead. Unless, I mean, we could always ask Mike Ford from NASCAR. I bet there was like 1,800 green flag passes for the lead. because there was pit stops. And the driver saving fuel holding the lead, I think, irritated a lot of people. I get it.

Trust me, you weren't as irritated as I was. I was leading that charge, though. Son of a gun. I'm like, God, we're running six-tenths slower than what we should be, but he's dictating my lap time. God, I hate that. Do you go back after the race and read what all the bozos in the group chat are saying while you're racing?

The group chats that we're on? St. Bozos as in Travis, Charlie, Austin, and me to an extent. Yeah. I don't consider Travis a Bozo, though. I mean, the guy is true and true loyalist. I love it. By the way, if you're looking for race updates for me, go to, what is it, at T. Rockhold? What is my handle?

You don't know what your handle is? It's just at Travis Rockold. Oh, man, I mean, he tweets my races, like he tweets Ohio State. Now, you're not really calling people idiots or plays dumb, but you definitely call it like it is. Yeah, I've been, I've tried not to when you've had mistakes on pit road or whatever, call out the pit, I don't know. It's a little different than just calling out a coach and a football game or a player. But yeah. You haven't called for anyone's head yet.

No, not yet. Not calling for jobs. Nope, not yet. But Brussels sprouts, we've got to work on some code words, but we can talk about that off. We can. It's, yeah, it's just different categories, but we'll never use cowboys again. Yeah, never. When another subject is cowboy boots, that was probably a bad choice on our end.

Just a little. Here's some tweets. The 11 team is using co-words and suddenly I'm nervous. Need a great restart here. Rec each other. Need to start passing some more cars. Pay attention, Larson. Oh, yeah.

Screw Larson. Yeah, he squeezed me in the fence. But you know what? He knew he did it. because right before that caution came out, he waved me by. Like, he would never wave me by

unless he knew he pulled a little, you know, boo boo. I think he saw in this mirror that he squeezed me up on the fence. So he gave me the finger to go on by. Then the freaking caution came out, like right when I pulled up beside him.

So he understood. Okay. You know, I would have done the same thing. If I knew I'd squeeze them in the wall. Not when we were racing. for the win, obviously. But I think he knew we were faster at that point, going to pass him anyway.

Do you, Othai, gives an apology? Man, maybe the 24 caused that, though. Like, I'm in such a tough spot because I'm beside the 54. And I said something over the radio. It was like, damn, tell him, sorry, the 24, just dove on me in to turn 3, 3 wide. And so I'm trying to leave him room,

and it ends up the 50, you know, I'm right on the 54's. door and ended up costing him, I think, two spots. And so not ideal. You want to, you don't want to run side by side in these next chain cars. You just let the pack catch you so quickly. And then, you know, when we're, you know, playing grab ass over in turn three, because I'm all up in the 54's door, crowding him up high, trying to give the 24 room. If anything, I probably should have crowd the 24 instead of the 54. But I mean, it's all split second. I'm trying to just react and not get wrecked and while i'm doing that i'm all up in the door of the 54 so yeah probably so let's move on

from this damn reason that's all we got this week all right well we're uh Atlanta Atlanta going Atlanta let's beat tie Dylan let's go let's do it