Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Pocono: Short-Pitting, Passing, and Controlling What You Can

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

Denny Hamlin is back after a second-place finish in Pocono. Denny explains what the difference was in winning and coming in second behind Ryan Blaney. Denny had a chance to get Blaney on a restart, but Martin Truex Jr. jumping out of line ruined that plan (12:20).What exactly happened with Corey LaJoie and Kyle Busch? And, can Busch still turn things around this season (20:00)? Bubba Wallace is firmly on the Playoff bubble, but made up some ground on Ross Chastain (27:10). Still, the team needs to find more speed.NASCAR is headed to Indianapolis Motor Speedway next weekend, returning to the oval, and Denny talks about the strategy and how important the inside lane is (34:00).Section 7 on pit road proved costly for Kyle Larson and Chase Elliott on Sunday (38:30). What happened and will NASCAR take a look at how they monitor pit road at Pocono going forward?Denny covers off on recent NASCAR news surrounding Spire hiring crew chief Rodney Childers (53:30) and Noah Gragson joining Front Row Motorsports next year (57:00). Plus, why 23XI didn’t appeal Bubba’s fine and #DearDenny. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Denny, what's your rating? 4.81. That is such bullshit because I tip like crazy. I don't know. I guess it's just rub everyone the wrong way. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Hey guys, welcome to action detrimental. Ow!

That hurt Charlie! This is not going to be a rose color glasses show. Pleading with NASCAR, who I guarantee you is listening to this. It was warm and then it was cold. But I kind of liked it. The 11? D.H. We're all in. We're going all the way that's promising. Hey guys, welcome to actions detrimental. I am Denny Hamlin driver the Mavis Toyota this past weekend in Pocono.

And the birthday boy and my co-host is Red Vest number 311. Jared Allen. Happy birthday, Jared. Thank you. Feels like it's been my birthday for two weeks now. That's how people celebrate them now evidently. We were going through this with discussion over what do we do from Molly's birthday and I said, can I say, can I vote nothing? And then I asked my mom. I said, Hey, mom, how many birthday parties did you throw me when you were growing up when I was growing up? She said, uh, zero. I said, exactly. Why doesn't we have to have a birthday party for every single year now? I don't get it. It seems like it needs to be. How old is she turning?

seven okay so not like that big of a it's not a big number no that's what i'm saying like let's keep it to 10 21 uh you know no 10 16 21 and after that she's gonna be long gone and forget about that so it's if your birthday's in the winter it's easy to like not have parties especially if you're like in a cold state but if it's a summertime here you're you got to do something i mean what happened to just buying a cake blowing out the candles you mean let her have some friends over. You know how frugal my mom was? She used to save the candles every year. Once I would blow them out, really? She would pull them out, clean them up, and put them back in the drawer, and then use them in the following year. That seems weird. I mean, I've never... No, we used to put candles in a cake for somebody, but...

Forever, really. Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah, so you're 30 now, right? 30, yeah. They say the best podcast in years are behind you now. peak at 30 you know yeah um i don't know i don't know i feel like when i was 35 like that was the age i would want to live in what were you doing at 30 winning a lot of races 2010 uh i was doing the same thing i was doing today i didn't own a race team i didn't have a podcast uh i did not have kids um things are just a bit simpler let's just a bit simpler let's just say that. So all I did was race. And that was it. So I tell you, so you're 30. That's a big

monumental birthday. We had a going out, as we said last week, we had a little going out thing for you. Where were we the week before? Chicago. Yeah, we went out in Chicago. That was fun. Do you do anything this weekend for the actual birthday? Yeah. As I told all my friends, I feel like it worked out perfectly because we were in Chicago, and Chicago is obviously a fun city. So my family on the road, we got to celebrate there. And then this weekend it worked out that Pocono is my home track. So it all worked out that obviously my birthday fell on that same weekend.

So I was home and they had like a family party, family get together Friday and Saturday night. So all my family got to celebrate with me who I don't see all that often, maybe once or twice a year. they came to the race on Sunday and it was nearly a nearly a perfect weekend. Way to go, Denny. Yeah.

Wait a very one. The perfect weekend. I've done worse. All right, so where do we want to head with this? You want to go off track, on track? Let's start with the race. Let's start with Pocono and, yeah, what could have been. Let's see.

What could have been? Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to, in the end. I believe that when the 12 short pitted the second stage there, we decided to stay out and win it. That was a key moment for sure. And we knew that, you know, it was, that was likely going to happen. If you stay out and you're going to go to try to win a stage, you likely will not be in the top five when you come to, you know,

kind of reset this thing. And I just felt like, you know, our car was strong, but that was the strategy that Chris wanted to deploy. One of them being is that, hey, at least leave with something. You know you're going to leave with something. There's no guarantees that you're going to win the race. But, you know, if you know you're going to win the stage, that is one playoff point.

It is 10 regular season points. So I thought that, you know, our goal being there was to try to stretch that lead as much as we could. And then, you know, force, you know, very few cars, allow very few cars to then, short pit that stage, which I think Blaney was one of the only ones because he was the only one within 17 seconds of us when the checker finally fell. So yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that yeah, it can go either way, but we just felt like the best thing for us was to take the bird in hand

and then see if we can't come back and win it, you know, which we have in past years. We've we've done this before and been fast enough to then go back up and pass. But I just think that the field is likely just getting so close now and speed that it is going to be more and more difficult. But we just saw at the end of stage one, you finished out stage one, and then restarted what, back near the 20s? And we're pretty much the only car that could drive through the field. Chase Elliott.

Truex made some moves too. Yeah, Chase is in front of me. he actually was I saw he's like he got the good jump on the first lap like he he gapped me by like three or four cars and then we just kept marching through the field with a three or four car gap the rest of the way but yeah we restarted in the low 20s there we drove up to the back end of the top 10 and then so yeah we we had a good good car that could pass but the difference is is that try to educate the folks here on listening is that passing cars in traffic you know when everyone is in traffic is so much easier than passing a leader that is in no traffic

that leader has such a distinct advantage um aerodynamically that um it allows him to just really carry a ton of speed into the corner he's got all the grip on his car because he's got all the air pushing down on his car allowing it to have grip but when you're in a pack and say you're in the 20s, you can make it up towards, you can make passes back there because the person in front of you is likely fighting dirty air as well, right? They're moving all around,

trying to get out of the wake of the car in front of them, and then you typically can make a move to go the opposite of where they go, and then it allows you at least get up beside them. So it's two different things. Passing in the pack is one thing. Passing for the lead at that track is really, really hard and difficult. So I just knew the whole time that it was 30, 40 to go. It's like, this is just going to be such a tall task to try to get around these guys. You're either going to have

to do it on a restart or hope they make a mistake. At the end there, I was trying to be really patient with Bowman because I saw, and I knew what was going to happen is if I just push, push, push to try to get around them and I don't, then I'm not going to be able to make a charge. And so I had to wait on the tires to slow down just a little bit, and then I was able to make a move on them. How many more laps do you think you would have needed to get to Planey's bumper? I'm not really sure, because I think that he was running his, you know, when he was running his all-out, I think we were kind of matching times at that point. So I think his car was pretty strong, and he was obviously in the top five for most of the day on speed. So I thought it was probably going to be difficult to get around him.

You know, of all the other cars that I chased, it seemed like I could stay close with everyone else. But, I mean, I never really ran behind Blaney throughout the day, except for the very end, those last seven laps. But it seemed like he had, you know, decent enough pace that he was going to be able to hold us off. You're going to have to have a three, four, tenth advantage speed-wise. and maybe that's not even enough at a track like Pocono to try to pass, simply because like we talked about, this next-gen car needs lots of space. It needs wide corners where the cars are going way up high or way down low.

You cannot run in the wake of these things because it just takes so much down force away. So you think this race, from your perspective, was lost when he short-pitted this stage, not necessarily all the cautions that took away your long run laps. Yeah, I mean, certainly if the race goes, into a super long run. I always like our chances in a really long run. But, you know, because the reason I like that is that the tires fall off. They get hot. They start wearing out. And at that point, the leader, while he is still in clean air, he's fighting his car. And so there's more likely

scenario of him missing his lines or his apexes when, you know, the tires are hotter. So he then backs up corners and then next thing you know as running second you can get a big draft down the straightaway let's just go the opposite direction to him in the corner and let's see who has more grip and so I just think that at that point I needed the race to go full green the 40 laps or just needed things to work out on restarts

and neither one did. Do you think the best car won the race yesterday? I mean that's so subjective you know it'd be easy for me sitting in my seat to say oh, we had the best car because we drove through the pack and we were able to do things that others didn't. But a deserving car, how about that? A deserving car won when the race yesterday. And so, you know, it wasn't a fluky deal by any means.

What do you think this means now for Ford? Because a few weeks ago, we didn't necessarily see Blaney in the picture. And now it seems like they're running their best races through the summer stretch. Yeah, they're figuring things out, right? it seems like that you would argue, you know, you got Iowa that he won. This is the second win, they said, in five weeks. So he's getting on a role, certainly, you know, kind of getting back to the form. You know, the way he was at the end of the playoffs last year, you know, that was exceptional for him.

I mean, he was the fastest car, most all those short tracks by a decent chunk. but certainly putting himself back in the picture of being a contender on all racetracks like he was a few years ago. How do you feel about your chances right now getting back, you know, a stretch that wasn't so great for you? You get back in the top five this weekend. Are you starting to get your momentum back? Yeah, I mean, it's one week, but yes, I definitely feel like, you know, nothing stupid or crazy happened yesterday that took us out. There was no bad restart that then led to another wreck. Like, it's just, it was an uneventful race for the 11,

and this is typically where we're going to finish, is in the top five when nothing crazy really kind of happens. And so as long as there's no novelties or anything like that, we always like our chances and no wet weather. And so, yeah, I think this is what we're capable of week and week out. But, yeah, it was good to kind of get back on the horse. Speaking of restarts, after the Kyle Bush wreck, you restart and second on the inside lane next to Blaney. Truex behind you.

And on that restart, Truex pulls out. Do you think, had he stayed in, you guys could have had a chance to maybe get up, Ulyss could have cleared Blaney? That was a killer. I mean, it's very difficult and it takes a ton of discipline. But on the, you know, when we take off at Pocono on restarts, drivers, you had to have the mentality that this is like a super speedway. and that if you pull out of line, you are going to kill any of the momentum that that line had. And so what happens likely is that when you pull out a line, while you might gain in the short term, and that being you go down there and, all right, I passed the car that was right in front of me.

Well, you've got a train of cars on the outside that is going to just freight train you down at the end of the straightaway for one. and then you get off the turn to the top line is still the place that you want to be. So it's a short-term gain, and I try to look to see, did Martin really gain anything by it? I don't think he did. I think you went backwards. Yeah, it was kind of a wash, but certainly you got to run and you want to take it. But what happens is it just really stalls the whole line out and the whole line drags backwards. Even though still, I was able to charge into one enough to be.

beside Blaine, right when that caution came out. And so I would have loved to seeing us be able to race through one right there, side by side, and maybe I could side draft down the backstretch into two on them. But who knows? We'll never know. When you have a teammate behind you, are you thinking, okay, I'm in a good spot here? I know they're going to push it. Did you, were you expecting him to do something like that?

Well, I had Byron behind me, and then he put Byron three wide. So that's what that was the key was. but I don't you know when it comes to teammates I don't really expect anything as far as that's concerned I mean I think if you communicate to each other that hey I'm going to push here then yes I do expect it kind of like what you did at the beginning of the race with Turex yeah but I think that I don't expect that because I expect us all to race each other there's many many times I put my teammates three wides on restarts because that's the move I need to make in that given moment for myself.

And I would expect the same from them is that they'll make the moves, but they deem, you know, best for them in that particular moment. If it's not, you know, if pulling out of the bottom line isn't necessarily going to be a net positive for the drivers, why do we see it so often? Because it works like 15% of the time. And so you're just hoping for that one, you know, Truex is thinking, well, I'm not going to win the race from fifth, you know, but if I can, somehow stick this three wide, get to third.

Another caution comes out, okay, now I'm back in the game. So I think your mentality is that if I just stay in line here, I'm not going to go anywhere. He doesn't really care about the inside line having momentum. He just cares about getting the one or two spots he needs entering turn one. And likely, too, you're thinking, well, this thing isn't going to last, these caution is going to keep coming. So I'm going to just get everything I can here in the short. short term and hopefully a caution does come out and then I just keep leapfrogging and gaining a couple

spots. Okay, so I understand that. If Truex gains a spot and a caution comes out, he's back in the game, but what about, like, Corey LaJoy? Yeah, I'm not really sure. You know, I tried to look at this so many different ways and I tried to see, you know, kind of who is in the gas, who was not, and it was definitely a weird scenario for sure. It's hard to really. It's hard to really, really, listen, it's not hard to draw what I believe my conclusion is, and that is that Corey was just entirely too aggressive in that moment. But I saw where he did get a shove from the 16 and likely was getting a shove to where he was like, well, I can't check up because the eight car is right there. Now, this is the first time that he went, made a move on

the eight, not the second when he actually hit him. So he's got this run from the the 16 and he pulls down the 8's there. And so he's like, oh, well, I can't lift because I am getting this shove. And if I'd lift, then I'm going to get turned around. So he dicks, he goes out to the left. He goes out to the left. And he's, so now by going to the left, you can see the corner a little bit more. I can't tell you how difficult it is to be 20th in line at a Pocono restart. You have no idea where the corner is. It's very hard to tell. You're kind of looking at the cones. going by and saying, okay, I think I'm at my lift point now. And you're really kind of gauging it off the cars around you as well. But it's very hard to see because you're up, someone's rear end.

You can't really see anything. So he dips out to the left to see the corner. I think he's to see the corner and not hit the eight or lift and get turned. But then he gases up and everyone else starts lifting at that point where he's then re-accelerating. So, um the only kind of issue i guess i have is that if you are already four wide which they were this is almost like a joey lagano incident at indy at the road course remember when he came barreling in on on the inside and wiped out like a bunch of cars because he had eventually you have to merge well there is just there's not five lanes right and if you think you're going to stick it five wide bottom like you were content on just crashing whoever's on the outside of you

um and so i just think it was a tough tough scenario and i don't think there was any intent to it but it just kind of looked weird where you know why why was cori still accelerating when others were decelerating a little bit for the corner i mean we had to make a corner and especially when you're back there that far in the pack your lift point needs to be way further back than what it is when you're in the first couple rows. First couple rows, you're driving in there just like you would normally under green. You've got nothing holding you back. But it's such a log jam because people starting in row four, five, six are three and four wide. They have to merge. And what that happens is you see it on the highway. When you see merging

happen, you usually see a stack up. Well, that means you have to back up your corner just a little bit there because everyone is trying to merge into just a couple lanes in turn one. Well, he said after the race that he gassed it up because he didn't want to get run over. Yeah, I think he was talking about after he made contact with the eight. And I saw that. So he actually made the correct move there to, you know, when he hit the eight instead of just kind of slowing down, he gassed it up, which he was probably explaining it's going to look worse than it actually was, which is true, is that he was hoping. He was hoping. He was hoping. He was going to be that he was not going to, the eight wasn't going to come back up and clip him. So he cleared himself

of that. This is just another, you know, blip in this continued stretch of bad luck for Kyle Bush. It went from being in the, you know, in a playoff spot to now well outside of a playoff spot. If you're Kyle Bush, what is your mindset for the rest of this season? Like, how do you gain your confidence back and? I mean, you just try to get something going. I mean, you try to get a top 10 you know what I mean just some kind of solid finish that gets you like back to being competitive you know I think that that's the tough part about all this is that he for the for the better part of his career was the guy that the best driver on the racetrack and now you know week in week out it's like we just don't hear from them that much and so

You know, there's plenty of reasons why that is. They had looked like some mechanical failures during practice, and then before the race and, like, just all kinds of stuff going on that's just not normal. And I don't know. It's just you haven't seen a sustained bad run like this by, you know, an elite Hall of Famer in quite some time. This was a discussion on the tear down last night.

And Jordan's argument was that, you know, if you can win a race, if you can get back to the front win a race, getting the playoffs, that it's just it's not over. Like the season's not over. You can regain your mojo. What about a, what have you seen that makes you think he's going to win a race? Nothing. That's what I'm asking you. That's what I'm saying is that, okay, can he win a race? Yes, absolutely.

But not legitimately. he's not going to win one legitimately. And that's just a fact. And I apologize to the Kyle Bush fans listening, but we have to be honest with ourselves. He's got to, you know, I'm not putting this on Kyle. Trust me, I've been teammates with him. The guy is elite.

He's great. But you've got to show that you can at least consistently run in the top five to even have a chance to win. And we haven't seen that lately. And so the speed hasn't been there. Now, can he win a race? Yes, Joey Lugano won a race from 17th at Nashville. So it is possible, but you're going to need some crazy shit to happen.

The odds are very, very low that you're going to win a race running 17th all day. You're going to need fuel mileage to be a factor. You're going to need just chaos at the end. And trust me, NASCAR racing nowadays, that's half a lot of it. of what it is. So there's always a chance. So you're saying there's a chance. But realistically, as a Kyle Busch fan like I am, it's just not a legit possibility right now from what I've seen. I just don't see them showing up one weekend and then all of a sudden being the fastest car on the racetrack. So then with only a handful of races left in the regular season, how do you

approach these last five or six if you're Kyle Busch? If you're the 18. I think the only way to approach it is to be a professional and you show up and you do your job to the best of your ability and then control what you can control. I mean, that's my advice if anyone ever wanted to hear it is that you do the best that you possibly can and you let the chips fall where they may. And if you don't have the fastest car, you try to drive that car to a couple spots better. Or, you know, just put yourself in position to where, you know what, if this turns into a fuel mileage race. Let's make a call that we could win this thing on fuel mileage. You know, what, what that means is that the team now would, in this point's position where they're definitely

going to need to win a race. So what happens is here's where an opportunity could pop up for a team like howbush. You get inside that close to the last fuel window. We're five laps short on making it on fuel. You know what? Screw it. Let's pit. And we're going to try to squeeze this thing to the end. nobody else is going to make it we're going to pit and we're going to win this thing that's how you can make it happen um short of that i just don't know how it's going to happen i just don't i haven't seen the speed out of rCR all year long certainly not where they were last year it seemed like kyle you know winning those six races um and it seemed like the first half of the season right it was I mean, I'm sorry, the three races in the first half of the season, you know, they had speed.

You know, while it wasn't, a few of their wins was like, yeah, things kind of worked out, but they were still in position to win. They haven't been in position all year long, you know, with the exception of maybe one or two races or maybe you want to talk about a super speedway race. So, but, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is that there's no place to go but up. I mean, he's had a terrible skid. I commend him so much on how he's handling it. I was about to say,

do you think he's resigned to this fact that this is, they're running poorly because he's not the fiery Kyle Bush in the media that we've seen in the past. That's what is post-race interview yesterday. It seemed like he was just in a whatever. I'm like I'm at peace right now. I know, but I just don't believe that to be Kyle Bush. I don't.

I just, you know, you've seen interviews from Kyle in the past. and he's had the oh well attitude, but on the inside he is full of fire. And he'll, when the camera turns off, he'll then be that fiery Kyle Busch. But I don't know. This is different. This is different than what I've seen before. And again, I'm not following him around, but I just, you're not going to turn off

the competitive juices of someone like Kyle Busch. It just doesn't turn off. And so I don't, I can't, I will. not buy into the fact that he has just resigned to this is where I'm at now, you know, and this is what I got to live through until it gets better. So I think he still shows up ready to go and still could, you know, be the fastest driver on any given day as long as he's got a horse that can go with him. But we just haven't seen that horse show up. Before we move on, Corey LaJoy, is that just a racing incident to you? Or is it something more that NASCAR will

No, it's a NASCAR won't look at it. It's an on-track racing incident. But, yeah, I mean, it's Corey LaJoy's fault. There's no question about that. I think he could have used better judgment when you're four or five lanes wide. Eventually, you have to merge and you have to let off to merge. So I just think it was a bit aggressive on his part, but it was still, you still could classify this under a racing incident that just things happen like this on restarts at Pocono.

Another racing incident, or in there's a race, I mean, I guess just a wreck, is that Ross Chastain wrecked out of this one, which will open the door for Bubba Wallace to get a good finish and goes from 53 points back now to 27 points back of Chastain, and now is very much in that window of could still point his way into this. What are you seeing from the 23 car and, you know, what is the, what is the conversation in the comp meetings leading into this playoff stretch? You know, I think that it certainly was a, it was, first it was uncharacteristic of

chastain to, you know, lose it on his own. I think he said the steering went, though. Oh, it did. I believe that's what he said. Huh. So they weren't sure on the broadcast. Yeah. Well, that's interesting.

That would be too. steering issues because I think Kyle Bush had one in practice, or at least that's what the TV said. But I would say, you know, while it was a, you know, a good point stay for the 23, they're still lacking pace. I don't know where that pace is. You know, it's just, it's head scratching a little bit that they just don't have the pace that, you know, seems like the other JGR or 2311 Toyota's have, but they're finishing to their best ability on race day, which that's really, really good.

So they're executing well, which that's half the battle. The speed stuff, we can figure out, and Bubba can figure out, and the team can figure that out. So they're at least keeping themselves in the game for when they do figure that out.

So I think that, you know, certainly when you're, if you would have been 53 back with five, to go, like, especially on Ross, that's going to be hard to make up. But I think 20-something, if you can find the pace to, you know, the reason you need pace is you need stage points. You need to qualify well. You need stage points.

And then you need to finish in the top 10. I think that he's got one of those worked out, and that's the finishing part. He's finishing, you know, probably better than his pace would show. But I'll tell you, he's at least back in the game now. and you know these things can these things can go one way or another right so you know certainly it's not a must win for for that team quite yet everyone else behind them you got briscoe 75 back that's going to be a must win so it's pretty much um baba chastain busher that you know are the three that are you know the questionable uh busher having a little bit more of a gap there at 44 up um but still

all takes is one winner at Daytona and that cut line moves and next thing you know it's you know Gibbs is back in question of making the playoffs and like wow that's you know we've seen it it's all been possible you get some winners and and I don't suspect there'll be another outside winner other than maybe Daytona um I guess at Indy this weekend there could be if strategy could be a thing this weekend where you could put the 20th place car out front and he would be very, very hard to pass. So I think that it's possible. It's possible that someone else could win.

And if that's the case, then Bubba will definitely be in a must win. I thought this past weekend's race for Bubba was a really good one considering it. It seemed like the setup was missed or he hated the car. And he was asking for just make wholesale changes. and was able to just find ways to keep moving forward and got a top 10 finish out of it. Yeah, I mean, you know, so much of this is, you know, trying to give a car, give a driver a car that is, that is comfortable. Sometimes fast cars are not fully comfortable, but it's a balance. Certainly, you know, the crew chief would always want to just put the fastest car that they can build on the racetrack and one that's super aggressive.

but sometimes, you know, drivers, if it gets kind of wonky over the bumps, as we saw during qualifying with the 23, if that's hard to, you can't sustain that. You're not going to be able to drive that in the long term. Now, Bubba did get on the apron, which made it worse than what it actually was. But still, that, you know, things like that, having that comfort to speed ratio just right is something that the teams balance every week. What about at the top half of these playoffs standings? It's pretty rare that we see there be a 20-point gap between first and fourth with only a handful of races left in the regular season. Usually by this point it's a two-car race or if anything, the guy at the top is checked out. Yeah, it's a good race, good race for the regular season and you got really kind of, I don't know, it looks like it's in order of, you know, the cars that have been the best over the year, which obviously that's,

the points is working out. But yeah, it seems like it's kind of anyone's race, and I think it's going to be who can capitalize, who can qualify well. Larson's been really good in qualifying over the last, really the whole season. He's probably got the most polls of all of us, Reddick. I feel like it's probably the next best qualifier.

Then it feels like it's me and Elliot's pretty close. I'm usually about 11th or 12th every single week. It seems like we're a little better at Pocono. know, Byron, he'll be up there. So it's a lot of things can happen. And certainly the type of racetracks that we have coming up, you know, give me, hey, Travis, give me the remaining regular season schedule. Indy, Richmond, Indiana, Daytona, Darlington.

Look at my chops on that. Those are good races. I like those. All those racetracks are awesome. So I think this is going to be, it's going to come down to the end. Where's Daytona? Is it, it's before Darlington, right? It's before Darlington.

And so Darlington's the last one. Yeah, I mean, I think we'll have an idea. Because Darlington, there's not really altering strategy things that can happen, right? I think when you look at like based on speed, like all these cars are close, right? So you're not going to really beat someone by 10 spots and a, stage likely on just speed at Darlington. And the only thing that could flip that up is like strategy. But at Darlington, you need to pit for tires each and every time. So I think by after Daytona, the picture of who's really going to contend for this at Darlington's going to really show up.

How many more races this year will strategy play into us? Like indie next week, will strategy play a big role in how you approach the race and get stage points and whatnot? Yeah, it really will. And certainly it'll be a track position type race track for sure. But yeah, it's going to be, it'll be tough. It's going to be wild on restarts. I think you'll have restarts very similar to Pocono where, you know, guys are trying to fit it in spots that are not there and talk about a track that's even narrower than what Pocono is.

You know, Pocono at least has like two and a half to three legit lanes. Like if you put the cars side by side by side of each other, it's three lanes wide, truly. So that means that's actually two lanes wide when you're actually racing because you've got to leave a little bit of room. So Indy is one lane. And when I say one lane, it is one lane, not one and a half. It is one. And so we all know being on the outside is not going to be preferred at that place. and so I think that

you're going to want to be on the bottom and then what's going to happen is we're going to go in these long straightways and everyone's going to try to go three wide bottom and everyone's going to try to merge

and usually you're probably going to see a lot of wrecks late. So if you don't want the top line, how many spots are you willing to give up to go on the inside lane on a restart if you were willing to say that number? You know, it's interesting because

I should say that it's one lane after a lap. It is multiple lanes when they do clean it up under caution. It does get better in that second lane, which is why you've actually seen when we were there in the Oval. People would restart on the outside lane there because they would get such a good run off of one into two. But the minute that, you know, it's just something to do with the track.

The track is like this diamond ground. It's diamond ground. And so it takes the rubber and it grinds the rubber off the tire and then it throws it up in the lane right above you. So whenever you try to go up there after cars run on the bottom for a while, if there's no one running that second lane, it just fills up with this dust and it fills up with these marbles and your car will just take off. So I should say that it's a one lane racetrack after one lap. So you can make the top work on a restart for a corner, maybe two, but after that you've got to get to the bottom. How do you approach this race at Indy when it comes to strategy?

Because considering that, you know, how tight the top of this point standing is, the difference between winning the regular season and finishing fourth in the regular season is seven playoff points. Yeah, I mean, you just do everything. I mean, you can try to look at. points all you want, but it's, it, you just, I want to win. And so I want to do whatever it takes to win. And that was my message to Chris this weekend. It's like, just whatever it takes to to win, right? You know, we can talk about different strategies and this, the other, but like,

put me in the strategy that gives me a chance to win. Um, and so I think that that's going to be the mentality. It just kind of depends on where you're at also, you know, certainly there'll be opportunities for people to jump stages. But, I think, unlike Pocono, I think the leader will stretch out an even further gap than they did at Pocono. So you better be within the top five if you want to even have a chance, I think, to pit and not lose a lap there. So I think that strategy, I don't know. Chris and the whole team, they'll work up something during the week and go through all the what-is. but ultimately, you know, if you feel like you can win the race,

you're going to put whatever strategy you can in that puts you towards the front at the end. Obviously, execution, super important too, because we saw at the end of Pocono, Larson and Elliot throwaway what probably would have been top five finishes on speeding penalties on pit road that sent them back into the pack. Yeah, I mean, Chase Elliott hadn't had one in 93 races or something like that. 92 was a number.

Well, so, yeah, he didn't make it to 93. Yeah. So that was an unbelievable stat. You always seem to kind of get hit by one somewhere along the way. But he hasn't, but that was the first time. And we did hear on the radio that Section 7 was hot for everyone when we did our pre-race roll, all the cars, I think, four sped. So there was something weird about that.

And if you look at Poconos, if we were to set our car all, cruise control. Best way to explain this. So each section, we're able to go higher or lower than actual pit road speed. And what happens, and the reason that driver's speed most times

is we're trying to cheat that. So we're trying to figure out where is NASCAR registering a low speed, even though you know you're going a certain RPM, which is a certain speed, sometimes it reads lower on their end. So what do you do?

You try to get more because you know you won't be caught speeding. Pocono is one where they almost need to recalibrate it because it has got more sections than I think any other pit road. It's like 18, like every two pit boxes is a speedy, is the markers for their timing lines. But they're all up and down.

Like they're, you can run the same exact speed, same RPM, put your car on cruise control, And it's going to read, let's just say the speed limit, let's just pretend it was 45 miles per hour. It would read 435 in one section, 447 in another, 441, 435. Like, it's just so up and down. And it's weird that that's the case on a straight pit road.

Usually it's really consistent, but Pocono, for whatever reason, has a lot of variance in their sections. And so it certainly caught the field off guard there when everyone was speeding there in Section 7, which was a very small section. And so we made adjustments on the 11 car all day to accommodate that. So we didn't get busted by it. But yeah, it seemed like I was amazed that there weren't more speeding penalties in Section 7 throughout the day because everyone had sped. And so it was crazy for me to believe that really,

everyone made adjustments, you know, that fine tune of adjustments before we went racing. And they did until that seemed like the very end when everyone got busted. Should NASCAR, if you have 33 cars or whatever the number was that have the go speeding when you're testing out, do you let the cars go around again? Or like, it feels like that's... Yeah, I think they'll probably reevaluate it. My guess is because obviously, you know, that throws up a red flag to them. that okay something's probably out of whack we didn't have 33 cars just miss it like that that doesn't make any sense and it doesn't make sense because it just the way it all worked out so I think that they just need to recalibrate it and then when we go back there and do our role we'll kind of see

where we're at do you recognize that each of these sections is a little different like when you're going down pit road. Do you're like, oh, I can gas it up a little bit more here? Well, my spotter will say, you know, nine green here or one red. You know, one red means I can push it a little bit more because NASCAR, what they're showing is, is a little bit lower. But, but yeah, I mean, he's constantly telling me where I can go where I need to check up. But it's a very difficult, difficult task. heading to Indy next week you tested there a few weeks back did you all find anything you're looking forward to implementing I mean I felt like our car was good on speed good on balance

I didn't really have any major concerns leaving there truthfully I think that if we wanted an indie car style race which is where cars stay somewhat close to each other in the corners on new tires. I know that, you know, Arrow is really, really bad at Indy on hot tires, but then they are able to have a slingshot down the straightaway and really draft up and then pull out and pass. To do that, I just still feel like we're running about seven miles an hour too fast in the corners because we are on the verge of like, you know, getting the gas down and and just you need all the air to really keep your foot down on the gas. And I just think that the second place car, third place car, fourth place, on back,

they're going to be such a disadvantage aerodynamic-wise that they're not going to be able to stay close enough in the corners to be able to do that slingshot pass down the straightaway. So, you know, the closest we had to that was our previous generation car. We had so much downforce on it that everyone had quite a bit of grip. but it's going to be very, very difficult in this next-gen car to stay close enough in the corners to have a remote shot to pass the guy in front of you down straight. Would you say that you have a significant advantage going into this week, considering you had that additional practice session?

I would say normally, yes, under a 20-minute practice session, but we're going to have a full 50 minutes. So the field, they're just so smart now. The drivers are so good. They're going to figure it out within a half hour. So what advantage I did have, I think that they'll take that. away during that hour of practice. So how much time, it sounds like if you give each team an hour practice, that's all they'll need. Like, where is the, where's the line where it starts to fall off

where? Well, this is the balance of what we're talking about. And when you hear, you know, people like Brad, because I also say, oh, we want more practice. That is going to be bad for racing. Because the more you put the cars on the track, what I'm saying is, is right now I feel like, yeah, we have an advantage. But it's just like that Martinsville test we had a few years ago. The field was spread out. There was actually passing going on because there were slow cars and there was fast cars. And then there was medium cars. But if you give these people enough on track time, everyone migrates to the same speed.

And everyone runs the same speed. So then how will you pass if then everyone tunes their car in to be so good? And why it was difficult to pass at the end of Pocono. At the beginning of the race, people's setups are not exactly tuned in. you run 200, 300 miles, you tune your setup up, you get your car just right, you go run that last 100 miles,

wow, it's hard to pass. I can't pass like I could early in the race. Well, no kidding. Everyone gets their cars better as races go on. They get their cars better as practice goes on, but that is in turn makes for a tough, tough race to watch because you can't make passes because everyone runs the same speed.

So then 50 minutes is more than enough time for teams of dial today. Yes. Yeah, it'll be enough time for people to dial their stuff in. And the good news is that the tracks are very similar. So Pocono and Indy, I think that people won't be out in left field at Indy because the tracks for a very long time, they've been somewhat similar enough to where you can run some of the basic stuff. Could you qualify first and then practice? Could you like unload and qualify? Yeah, I mean, we're getting in the wheeves, but I don't think so.

I think that's the right way to do it. I think it's always best to get the teams practice. I mean, we do that at Daytona. Right. We practice. Yeah, but then look at all the problems. Like, we've had cars, you know, not be able to, you know, take off. They had mechanical issues and stuff.

I'm definitely not in favor of that. So I think the way we do it is fine. It's just I warn against more practice is better for racing. I do not believe that to be the case. How bad do you want to win this indie race? Where does this rank on your... Well, I want to win it bad. But I also know that I need to just control what I can control, right,

is doing my job on the racetrack, off the racetrack. You know, this is going to be a race that it can be frustrating. You know, if you, you can have a very, very fast car, and if you put that fast car in 10th place, it's going to be tough. It'll be tough for you to come back from that. So it comes from executing right when you unload to, to the checker flag.

So I'm just got to make sure that I do my job the best of my ability. And if we do, then we're going to have a great shot. But I won't win a bad. How long did it take in your career to tell yourself, control what you can control and not force it? We see a lot of times these younger drivers try to do a dumb move on a restart when they're 20th. Like how long into your career did it, did you learn that ability? I mean, it took a while for sure.

I mean, you know, I'm probably a control-free. anyway where I want to have my hands and things that, you know, sometimes I don't need to have my hands in. But I think, generally speaking, I just found it to work better, you know, when I kind of let, you know, Gabe Hart have the reins of, you just tell me what to do, coach, and I'll run the play that you call. That just seems to have worked better over the last four to five years of my career. So probably in the last 4 to 5 that really I've had that mindset. And I'm confident enough in my abilities as long as I do a good job. And I make sure I don't make any mistakes on my end,

then we're always going to have a shot because I know the team's going to build me a fast enough car. Did you have a realization then before getting paired up with Gabe Hart that, hey, I need to do something a little bit differently? Yes and no. I've always been a little bit hands off when it comes. to the cars and setups and things like that. I know how to stay in my lane as far as that's concerned. I, you know, I'm, I was more hands on in the short track ranks and I knew that, you know, more right we're sparing. Okay, it's going to make you turn better. I knew all those

things and we used to, I used to have to do that for myself way back in the day. But things are just so different now. And as a driver, you know, I've, I'm old enough to know enough that I don't know anything. You know, when it comes to what makes these cars go fast and, you know, sometimes things work opposite of the way that you would think they were. So I let the smart people do smart people things and I'm just the guy holding the wheel. Do you ask Chris, like when he makes a call for the reason or is it he makes the call and you trust him so much that you don't really ask? Well, yeah, I mean, I would say strategy wise. I certainly voice my opinion and we have discussions before races on what my thoughts are. And sometimes he needs those to, you know,

to understand how aggressive should I make the call. Denny, do you think you're going to be good enough or fast enough to, if I put you in sixth entering the last stage, are you going to be able to pass them legitimately? That's a question or an answer he needs to know to then plan out the proper strategy to win the race. So, for example, the call to take more fuel and sit on pit road longer, is that something that he tells you and you, do you ask why?

Or is it just like... I don't ask why. I understand that there's a reason for. for it. It doesn't matter whether I agree with it or not. I need to sit there until the tank is full. And so I don't think it had, it could have had those cars not had a penalty. It would have played a factor, right? I would have been fourth or sixth or something. Sixth is where he came out. Yeah. So that would have been very, very hard to overcome. Instead, I got to start on the front row with Blaney, right so I think that that was a factor you know but those other guys they were playing a game to

where they were going to be short on fuel so you know we were we were packing it to make sure that we were good to go we were never going to come down pit road for the rest of the race those guys were banking on cautions well the cautions came so then it didn't matter at that point but that's just kind of the roulette that you're playing by not keeping your car full i'm curious we're going to talk about crew chief moves here shortly in an off-track news. But what is the average shelf life of a driver crew chief combination? Oh, man. Gosh, that's a good question.

I don't really know. I think everyone's relationship is a little different. Every driver and crew chief, you know, have, there's different personalities. And do you hang out outside the racetrack? Or is it strictly professional relationship? I've seen some of the best relationships be one that are strictly professional, like the Chad and Jimmy ones, right? They, you know, they, they kept it straight professional and whatnot.

And, you know, that was kind of the only time they interacted was when they were working. I think that's what you hear. So I think that that, it's different strokes for different folks, but I don't know that there is a shelf life. I think when you have results, things just naturally just keep on going. And so the only time that they made a change when it was Chad and Jimmy was when the results just were no longer there, right? And then I think after that, after Jimmy came Cliff and Jimmy didn't have great results there and then he moved on, right? So I think it's just you stick with what works.

And I think, you know, if I were 30 years old, I would say, well, Chris is my guy for as long as I'm in the Cup series, right? until the results no longer say that that's a good combination. Now, sometimes, you know, when you have different generation cars or different technology that maybe comes out, maybe the crew chief isn't as tuned on those things. And you need a different perspective to come from the outside and say, why aren't we thinking of things this way? But I just think that the great ones are able to get the most out of their people. And their process to prepare is the same, no matter what the cost.

car is and the great ones are great. That segues into some off-track news and that Rodney Childers is going to aspire next year to crew chief Corey LaJoy in the seven car. Yeah. Is it surprising? Not really. I don't think it's super surprising. I think that generally speaking,

You know, we know Spires, they're trying to get better, right? I think that the seven car in general is stuck in a lull of performance that is not, you know, kind of up to where the 77's at. The 71's getting better. Week in, week out, it seems like they're starting to, you know, get better than what they were. And the seven's just kind of been in the same kind of 20th to 25th most weeks. And while that would have probably been okay, three or four years ago,

I think that, you know, T.J. and Dickerson expect a little bit more than that now, especially with the resources that they're putting in the team. And so I think this is a good move by them to say, all right, well, then, you know, this is kind of how it works, right? Is that you get another crew chief,

and then you get another crew chief, and then eventually it's like, okay, we can't find anything that works with you. So it's got to be you at some point. So I think, you know, that's, they're putting all their chips on the table and going to give Corey in the seven car the best crew chief that they could go out and get. And at this, now it's a situation where Corey has to step up and perform better. And so he would tell you that himself. And this will certainly put the pressure on him to go out there and perform because we know that Rodney will build him a fast car.

and they should be, you know, at least five, six, seven spots on average better than what they are week in, week out now. Yeah, this seems like it'll be the most high pressure situation Corey's had in his career. Certainly one of the best situations, if not the absolute best. Yeah, because, I mean, I think you always had the excuse of, well, my stuff's not as good as others, peoples, and this, that, and the other. I mean, one thing's for sure, right? Spire has good pit crews. They have Hendrick developmental guys, and you can see the 7 or 77 or whatever. Their pick crews are up front most weeks. It's not the pick crew.

Like, they're fast, fast guys. Their cars, you know, they have an alliance with Hendrick Motorsports, and I don't know what technology they share back and forth, but it seems like Carson's at least getting like the most out of it. Whatever it is that they've got, he's getting the most out of it week and week out. So, yeah, eventually you start to cross off all these things that might be variables of why the performance is not where it needs to be. And once you cross all those things off, then you eventually have to look at yourself and say, what do I need to do better? Because I clearly need to step up.

And this is just one of those things that's crossing off some of the variables before Corey really needs to look back at himself and say, all right, well, he's always going to look and say, How can I be better? I know that about Corey. He's always inquisitive on things that he feels like he could do better. I think he wants to be better. And this next year is going to be a big moment for him. Noah Gregson to front row? Yeah, so I think that that's a good opportunity for Noah.

I spoke with Noah while he was kind of on his job search. And I'm a fan of Noah's, and I'm a fan of Noah's. think that he's got the ability to go out there and do it. And, you know, what I said to him after, you know, he told me he was going to, he was going to sign with front row. I said, listen, that's a place that you can, you have a chance to go win. Bob Jenkins is obviously investing in our sport and he's, you know, he's going to grow. And it seems like he's putting a lot of chips on it on the table to try to get better as well.

And so I think this, this is a good move for both. I think when you look at what they will have, what we do know right now with front row is they're going to have Todd Gillen, they have Noah Gregson. That's a good young group right there that you can build around. Is this a good sign for NASCAR that in the past few years, the teams here that have run towards the bottom of the pack and inspire and front row seem like they're investing even more to become better?

So those teams at the bottom are now trying to push their way up? Yeah, I mean, every team, you don't know what they're investing beyond what we see, right? What we see is headlines, right? And we see that, well, you know, front road is going to go out and they're going to purchase the charter. But we don't know, are they spending more money on their people? Are they investing in more technology? We knew that they did because they did with Penske, right? They had this alliance with Penske that they started.

That seems like that improved their performance. Well, remember McDowell told us. that they didn't have a Hawkeye machine last year when he won. Yeah. So, I mean, every team has its challenges when it comes, you know, the smaller teams have its challenges when it comes to being competitive and being able to go up against the Gibbs and the Hendricks and the Penskees of the world. It's very, very, very difficult.

They have so many resources. So, but you can, you always feel like you're on the cusp of like, we're right there. We can compete with them if we had blank, right? And so you keep trying to knock off these things. those blanks to try to get better. And you see whether, you know, eventually there's going to be a point where, you know, you've got diminishing returns and you're just spending money and you're not gaining as much

as what you were hoping. So I think that I'm really been impressed with Bob Jenkins and his decisions with his drivers and, you know, where he's going with his company. I think that, you know, this is a moment where he's saying I'm part of the sport for the long term. I'm going to be here. And, uh, you know, this is something that I want for, for myself and my kids in the long run. Yeah, I was just looking at it from the perspective of, you know, front row purchasing a charter, adding another driver to their, their fleet. Um, you know, that's another person in competition. That's another, that's another brain. That's another set of opinions. And then

from the spire perspective, you know, they're bringing over McDowell, a veteran guy. Yep. They just hired Rodney, who's obviously a highly sought after crew chief. Like, these teams are bringing more people into their workforce. Yeah, the field's getting closer, right? The difference between the halves, the middles, and the have-nots, it seems like it is all getting closer, right? And so what that makes is for more unpredictable finishes and unpredictable winners at times. And why it gives hope for these small teams is that under this platform of the next-gen car, they feel like they've got, they're just one move away, one crew chief away, one driver away from competing weekend, week out.

Bubba Wallace was fine 50 grand this week. However, he said that it was one of the best things that ever happened to him. And that when he received the call, he was with Kevin Harvick and got some very appreciative advice. Yeah, I think that he was very pointed in his interview there and his response of that. I think that NASCAR made probably the only call they could. they were under, again, NASCAR really reacts to whatever people say on social media a lot. They do. And so when this was under a microscope, and again, I firmly believe he got fine because it was on TV and it was the race winner. Had this been back there and we had to use somebody's, Justin Haley's in-car camera to see Chase and Daniel Suarez going at it, that was off camera.

that was something that came later, right? And so, you know, yeah, they bumped each other. It wasn't hard, but still, it's, these things happen on a weekly basis. And so it just happened to be Alex showing them right there on live TV. Here comes Bubba out of the blue and he punches them up in the wall. And so I think Jeff Burton did a great job of explaining during the race. He was like, you know, listen, the line that they're drawing seems to be pretty clear is that you can't spend people out under caution or you can't knock them into the wall or things like that. Anything else I think that they're going to be okay with. So there seems to be that clear line there. Why is there no appeal coming from 2311? Why drag this on? It's let it go. You know,

you learn from the mistake and it was a mistake. You shouldn't have done it. And you just, you move on. We need answers and we need him fast. We tried to ask Junior, but his answers were lame. And with DBC, it was more of the same. Now we're caught on you because you're our only hope. This ain't the raged track, so maybe you won't choke. Dear Denny, this one comes from off track.

And the question is, a year later, any update on Austin's 5.0 Uber rating? Oh, wow. I don't. We'll have to get in touch with him on that. I hope he's listening in right now and we should get a text here shortly. Did you get any Uber? Did he call any Uber as while you're in Chicago? Because that's where it started was last year, Chicago, right?

Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Remember we had to walk really far. Oh, we had to walk like 5,000 miles to meet the Uber because he didn't want the Uber driver to go through the hassle of coming to pick him up. I'm not sure. We will get you an update on that next week.

but yes Austin is super he says 5.0 it is 5.0 still said 5.0 that's good for him I don't know that that really matters but

congratulations Austin remember he goes to extreme feats to keep this I know like has a conversation with the person before he exits the car hey you're going to give me that 5.0 right like here's an extra 20

he does oh yeah Does he know that you don't get anything? Like at 4.8 and a 5.0 are the same. It's just pride. He sent a screenshot. It is 5.0. Okay. He was really worried about putting Jay White in the car that one time under him.

Remember? In Phoenix? I was in the car with him. That driver got a healthy tip. A healthy tip. Because didn't he get sick or something like that? He was just... He just fell asleep.

It was like the driver... Because we all had to go to different locations. He had too many coax that they did. Too many coax. The driver, you know, where you need to go. 555. Yeah, he couldn't just spit out the address, could he? No.

Denny, what's your rating? Let me have a look, see. Again, I had this moment with this gentleman in Miami, if you all remember. Is that the one that made it to Twitter? Yes, it's one where he kicked me out of the car because my mask wasn't covering the tip of my nose. That's why he kicked me out. 4.81. That is such bullshit because I tip like crazy. Like I am a huge tipper. I don't care whether it's in a waffle house or any person that works in the service industry, period, I am at least a 30 to 40%

tipper. But you're held to a different standard with tipping, guarantee it than if it was me or Jared. I know, but like, if I go to Red Rocks Cafe in Burkdale, those who want a good lunch, I go there all the time. And my bill's $19. I tip 20 bucks. I mean, if my bill is low, I will tip almost 100%. Well, you have to there. Otherwise, your picture will get taken off the wall. Yeah, then. Come on, man. Ron only threatens those things if, if, you know, if you make them mad, he'll threaten to take you off the wall. trust he's always got the screwdriver ready. Are you on the menu too?

Yeah, of course. Well, that'd be the one you don't want to lose, right? I'd, Denny will never lose that. Sure. I'll never lose that. I've got a 4.982. 4.98? See, I have 4.81.

Oh. But I don't talk to the people. I don't either. I just sit back there. I stay quiet. I put my seatbelt on and I get out and I say, thank you, sir. Thank you, ma'am.

That's it. That's all I do. Are they mad I'm not talking to it? And I guarantee I tip less than you. I wonder why. That's just rude. I don't know. I guess it's just rub everyone the wrong way.

You also need to tip quickly. I feel like that probably plays a role into it. Okay. Up until a year ago, I didn't. And that was a problem. Because every time I asked for a ride, it would say, do you want to tip the previous? And that could have been two months ago.

Right. So that person's already submitted their review. They didn't think you left them a tip. I think that might have been a problem. Yeah. So now, absolutely. You got to log back in right after your ride to tip. Yep.

You got to close it out. Yep. I got a review here from R. Benj 3. I don't know how to pronounce that. But anyway, they say, I've been following you since you raced at Southside. This podcast has been perfect, extra access to learn and understand how to execute

race is the way you do. I'm bringing my youngest two children to Richmond for their first race. This is special because this is where I saw my first NASCAR race. Well, awesome. I appreciate that review. Cool that you knew about South Side Speedway. I evidently you watched me run my four-cylinder mini-stock around that place for many, many years. Shout out to all the people there in Cheshfield, Virginia.

I'd love to bring back Southside. I know you keep asking me, but the state or the city will need. need to fund it. I'm not going to fund it myself. I will run it, but I will not fund it. So get with your local lawmaker on that. Hey, I want to give a couple shoutouts, three of them, right, real quickly before we leave. And we didn't talk on it much. Corey Heim, he won. He's great. Shocking, breaking news there. Cole Custer went in the Xfinity race, first winning the season for him. He's been in contention a ton. Good to see Cole really running well. Look forward to seeing his opportunity back in the Cup series one day, whenever that might be. The other is for the NBC

broadcast. Are they doing a great job or what? They are. I don't want to give too much credit and slitarts on that, but yeah. I know you don't want to give credit. But them explaining the strategy, they knew what the story was going to be going into the day. And so then, They played on that the entire race. They, I wish almost they could show more illustrations on TV of like, all right, here's the box. And they did it in the third stage. There's like, here's the box of the third stage.

Here's when the pit window opens. And you can pit any time in that area for you to make it to the end. But if there's a caution that's really close to the front edge, you might want to think about it. And then so they just did a really, really, really good job. They did a good job when you went back because you guys pitted longer to explain the fuel. I knew exactly what was going on with your strategy. It was perfect. Yeah.

And so I think you have this because Steve Lattard is one of the most recent crew chiefs that we have as an analyst, right? He does an exceptional job. But beyond that, I think Jeff Burton and him, they have a really good rapport with each other. And while I was worried about this gaping hole that Dale Jr. was going to leave in that booth. I think that this trio that we have with Rick and Jeff Burton and LaTart is working really, really well. So I think they do a fantastic job with their production. They explain the race. They don't just show you the race.

They stay on camera shots. They don't zoom in on camera shots. They're doing a great job for our sport. So thank you, NBC. The question is how will Lee Diffey fit into that? Lee Diffey is going to be badass. Just listen to him during the 100 meter dash at the Olympics. He's exciting.

He's going to be great. But I'll tell you, someone, if Rick Allen is not going to be part of the NBC for the rest of the season or not, somebody better pick up Rick Allen because Rick Allen. Because Rick is doing a great job as well. And I know that there's talks of TV partners, who are they going to hire, this or that. Rick needs to be part of the NASCAR broadcast. Yeah, following the broadcast silly season has arguably been more fun than following the driver silly season and who's going to make up the Amazon team next year. And who's going to be on Dale Jr.'s broadcast team and all that.

Yeah, there's a lot of moving pieces, certainly. And there's going to be a lot of opportunities there out there. We have some talented people that certainly when the gap fell with race hub there, you had some people, you know, lose their jobs and hopefully they land back on their feet. And some of those people obviously, you know, need to be on Cups Sundays or Xfinity Saturdays. And so I think the talent will still find its way to the booth some way. Anything else you want to add before we close out here? No, just, you know, look forward to this one last week, right, before the break?

One more week before the break. One more. Hopefully we can get a win, if not, at least have a good strong run. keep this going because man Lulu was one more bad finish away from get the boot Somebody tweeted at me Oh it's not Lulu I'm like I'm like

Denny didn't win this does not count for Lulu like She's still Oh so you're saying till till she gets a win Yeah she needs a win before like she can earn her keep here Okay All right I like you staying strong on that Travis Well she's got one more week It's not going to be good if you you got to go through this two week stretch

I was wondering, did Chris set, you know, like a goal like, hey, let's win a race before this break, kind of like he did, you know, back in May. We did for before the playoffs. So we didn't set it for before the break. He set one, he set a goal for before the playoffs start. I would like for us to do blank. What was that number? Blank.

I'm not telling you. I guess it was five. All right. All right. Well, we'll see you guys next week after Indy.