Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - Talladega: "A Sham at Best"

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Denny Hamlin and co-host Jared Allen are back after an eventful race at Talladega. To decide the order of topics for the show, they brought out a wheel to spin and let it decide. The first topic of the day is the lawsuit 23XI and Front Row Motorsports filed against NASCAR (5:20). Denny explains why 23XI couldn’t sign the charter agreement and the importance of why they are suing NASCAR.They also discuss the 11-team's decision to take two tires while others took fuel only (19:00), and whether Ricky Stenhouse Jr. should’ve been ruled part of the crash due to damage (25:00). Plus, why were the rules on Brad Keselowski and Chris Buescher not enforced?Next, they tackle teams being allowed to work on cars under a red flag, managing of DVP and cars being towed back had many people frustrated (32:25).Denny also breaks down the massive 25-car wreck (42:50), how Alex Bowman ruined Ryan Blaney's day (51:10), and Daniel Suarez’s self-inflicted mistake (55:05).Finally, Denny and Jared look ahead to the final race of the round of 12 at the Charlotte Roval and the expectations are chaos.For more content head to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lulu's now the good luck dog. You would say that there's no question this weekend was absolutely fortunate luck, correct? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Hey guys, welcome to action's detrimental. Ow, that hurt Charlie. This is not going to be a rose color glasses show. Pleading with NASCAR, who I guarantee you is listening to this.

It was warm and then it was cold. But I kind of liked it. The 11 D.H. We're all in. We're going all the way to promising. Hey guys. Welcome to Action's Determinal. I'm Denny Hamlin, Jarper of the number 11 FedEx 1 rate. Toyota this past weekend at Talladega Super Speedway. And welcome to the Spin the Wheel episode where we have so many topics. if you saw my tweet last night, you know we don't know where to start. So we're just going to let the wheel start for us.

And to be frank, this wheel isn't even big enough to fit all the topics. So I think all of them are important. So I think we kind of got to lead off. I mean, again, I just, I want to say thank you to NASCAR for giving us this content. I want to make sure that the listeners out there tune in to all Dirty Mo Media podcast this week because you will get an unbiased and unfiltered reaction to these subjects. I honestly, I can't see how some of the other channels spin this in a very positive light,

but it'll be very interesting to see how that goes. Jared, let's just talk first, I guess, about Sammy Smith. Okay. Sammy Smith Xfinity Race winner. 12th place to first place, can't make the wheel. I would say on a normal episode, this would be a big topic. The guy went from the seller of the Xfinity playoffs to winning and putting himself into the next round. and now we've got some big names below the cut line for it is a cut race for them too as well right

should be don't they follow your schedule from here on out i'm i'm not sure not sure maybe who knows there's only five races left i mean the amount of cars it's different the races it's different good luck i mean i'm in the i'm in the sport and i don't know you would call me an avid fan. I mean, no idea. Mathematically, they have to. Yes, it's the cutoff. Because there's only five races left.

Who do we got to blow the cutoff in Xfinity right now, they're trav? He's doing some clicking. We have Algae, SvG, Sam Mayer, Parker Clickerman. Well, I mean, given the way that the format in the Xfinity series is going, it's, you would think SVG's just got an automatic bid to next round because he's got a road course he's about to go to. I think he's probably 13 points back.

There was a big DQ at the end of it. Obviously, who was that? Who got DQ? Sam Mayer, right? His car didn't pass tech. The rear was too low. And that DQ really changed some things. So now the SVGs, the Justin Alguires can really kind of point their way in relatively easily compared to where they were. I think they were more than 20 back. is 10 back, but also right above the cut line is Almondinger. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I think the Xfinity playoffs is just going to be very interesting to watch when we get to the Roval.

You're going to have, you guys are going to have to keep me tidied on some of these subjects. You know, I have a goal of where I want this podcast to lay in. Then you better wrap up this Xfinity series talk. Okay. So let's give props to. Sammy Smith for winning. I thought he did a great job there at the end, kind of working the draft.

Obviously, the XSovini cars are so fun to watch on Super Speedways because it's the racing that we used to have in Cup Series. We didn't put in there on our wheel of topics, kind of the Cup arrow package that desperately, desperately need some work. But that's nor here nor there. many other things to talk about. And so I think that, yeah, it's fun to watch those things. They got bubbles behind the cars so you can push the car forward without actually pushing

them. It's more spread out. You can make moves. And so really is a fan, fun to watch the Xfinity series. Okay. Let's spin this wheel. Travis, you're ready to move on. Are you ready over there?

I'm ready. Well, we want to keep it moving here, right? I want to keep it moving. All right, Travis, here we go. First spin. And the winner is. Oh God, right? No way.

Lawsuit. Stop it. Is that wheel loaded? Do we want to spit again and save this for the end? No, I think it's fine. Okay. But I mean, on the first spin? I know.

I know. I was hoping that I was going to get to spin this again in the next five minutes, but now I might spin it again in the next 30 minutes. All right. I mean, what do y'all want to know? I mean, I just feel like, you know, this weekend, I obviously didn't say much in the media center. I have to be respectful that, you know, while at the racetrack there, I'm kind of, I'm the driver of the 11 first. And obviously, you want to keep your comments pretty short and limited.

You know, to be respectful to, you know, the sponsors I got on my hat and my shirt during that time. That's the tough balance. When people ask me about, you know, what's the balance? I say that's one of the toughest. is having to walk that tightrope of, well, I'm here as a driver, but you're asking me owner questions. But I want to be respectful and answer your questions, right? So, I mean, I don't know.

What do you all want to know about it? Obviously, a lot has been said about it. Obviously, you heard our attorneys, you know, did a few media outlets last week. Obviously, this is a big deal for the sport. you know, this is just something that I feel as though that is important moment in our sport. For myself personally, you know, I've invested a lot back into this sport to help put on NASCAR show. And, you know, all I've asked them from the very beginning is that show me an avenue where I can get that investment back. I'm not looking to bank a bunch of money or anything like that.

I just show me a way that that investment can be recouped. And I've not seen that yet. And so that is an issue, right? And so when we heard NASCAR say, well, we don't want big investment companies coming into our sport. We want old drivers being car owners. They tried it and it failed for one reason or another. So when's it stop?

When does it stop? We came and when we brought out facts that in 2016, there were 19 charter members. 11 of those are gone. They're gone. And so I know it's easy to look in the short term and say, oh, we're fine. Everything's fine. It's not fine. And the 2025 agreement binds the teams in such a way that there is no upside whatsoever.

All the upside goes to one side. and all of our rights are taken away. So any way that we did have in the past a way or an avenue to at least use our rights, our rights that we created, brands that we created, IP that we created, to then go get other revenue to supplement this thing called a racing team, those got taken away.

So it's just a broken system. And I wish people understand how broken the system is. I think as time goes on and things get discovered, you will see more specifics on why we believe that this is an unfair system and an unfair agreement. You obviously saw Richard Childer's, you know, he stated his opinions. on it, which just drives me up the wall. Why these talking heads say, well, all these other people signed it. Well, no, they, yeah, they did, but they're telling you why.

Why are you ignoring them saying, I didn't want to, but I had no choice? So it only take, you know, Jeffrey Kessler definitely stated it very perfectly that there's always more victims than the plaintiffs. It happened in NIL. It happened in different sports that it only takes one to stand up for what they believe in. And this is something I stand up and I believe in. I want this for my kids. They deserve to carry on the legacy of what I've invested back in the sport.

It should be fair for everyone. And when I say everyone, I mean everyone. That's teams, drivers, sponsors, and fans. I'm curious if this is this lawsuit, is this something that was always on, 2311 and you know i don't want to not include front row in this was something that was always on your mind as these charter discussions went on through the summer or was this like man this is the only thing we got once september 6 came yeah and you got that final proposal yeah i mean things happened really quick in that week of september 6 obviously um and some details will come out of that

you know again as as things go along and progress um you will see more information and facts and and understand why this is so bad. But specifically, September 6th was, I think Michael talked about it, Curtis talked about it, Jeffrey Kester talked about it, Bob Jenkins talked about it. That was the straw that broke the camels back when essentially you get this document

that, by the way, your lawyers just had the first opportunity to talk 24 hours before that, and then all of a sudden you must sign this. and that we're done. We're done. And it just doesn't, you know, that was a straw broke the camel's back. And at that point, you know, when NASCAR put that clause in the very, you know, I'm not speaking out of turn here because I know all these things are now public now.

They put in there at the last, in the 12th hour of the agreement they put in there, you may not sue us. If you sign this, you cannot sue us for anything basically that we have done through this process. You can't sue us for antitrust. can't do it. So they take away, they took away all of our rights. All of our rights. So at that point, we said, hold on, stop. We can't sign this because we know this is wrong. But if we, if we do, we release them of any wrongdoing. And they've, they've had wrongdoings. Do you think NASCAR knows it's wrong, which is why they would have included that statement? I think to a normal common person,

it's a pretty big red flag. Would you not think? I mean, yeah, if you include that, hey, if you sign this, you can't sue us for anything that we've done in this process or whatever it may be. I would think that's a red flag, but did they include that because they know it's a red flag? I can't, I don't know. I can't really speak for them and why that was put in there, but obviously it's, you know, they wanted to protect themselves. We obviously have not had any comments from NASCAR regarding this lawsuit yet. Right. Things move slow in this process, though. What does this mean for 23-11 and front row for the remainder this year going into next season? Yeah, so I think that obviously, you know, we stated that we'll be filing for an injunction. And, you know, that's the first,

that's the first thing that has to happen. The injunction is basically we're going to seek relief. And in injunctions, you typically have to show, and again, I'm not a lawyer. years to be careful here, that, you know, you have irreparable harm if something, if you don't stop it. And so obviously, we're trying to stop NASCAR from taking our charters. Obviously, there would be massive irreparable harm there. And so, you know, we're going to go to the courts and say, listen, let us operate as a chartered team while this lawsuit goes on over the next, you know, year to two years because obviously if you lose your charters and you win the lawsuit then what you can't you can't go back so it's going to be tough i think uh to operate that way we're we're as 2311 we're prepared for any

outcome i think michael has stated that and i've stated to the team um we will not let this affect our employees whatsoever in any kind of way and any financial distress is going to have to fall directly on the owners. It will not fall on our people whatsoever. We will not allow that to happen. I'm curious of your thoughts on some of your competitors' comments this weekend. Kyle Larson was asked about this in the media center. He commented on driver salaries and NASCAR driver salaries being one of,

if not the only sport where they've gone down in the last handful of years. Brad Kuzlowski also commented on this. He was a team owner who was not a team owner, who is now a team owner again. What's your take on those guys' comments? Yeah, I mean, I think that Kyle Larson's right, William Byron's right, Michael McDowell's right, all those guys spoke a little bit about it when I asked this week, and why the drivers should care is because when the teams are healthy,

we are going to pay more for their services. That is just normal, that's just normal protocol. And you've seen over time, and, you know, driver salaries have gone down. And I know that DBC talks about this quite often. You know, team mechanics have, their salaries have gone down. Crew chiefs have gone down. Everyone in our sport has gone down except for one party. And that's the party that's on the other end of this, on the other end of this lawsuit.

So everyone should care because the teams are the ones that has shouldered the burden of our revenue going down and down and down over time. And so what's happened is your drivers are typically one of your biggest ticket items, right, of things that you have to pay. And so you pay the drivers, which you can afford to pay them. And every team is different. And drivers' salaries are on a very wide spectrum. there's some at the very, very top that are still, you know, close. They're close. They're not at the peak of what it used to be, but it's close to it.

And then you've really got another tier of, yeah, they're kind of in the middle of, you know, it's good, not great. And then you've got a lot of the field that is, you know, not making as much as an engineer makes. Like, it's really, really dispersed throughout the field. field. And quite frankly, when you add up what the entire driver salaries are all put together what the drivers get paid, you know, this is in the 3 to 5% range. It's very, very low of total revenue coming in the sport. You can't equate that to any other sport whatsoever. And these guys are risking their lives when they strap in the car each and every week. So they should care because over time as you know as time's gone on and the teams have become you know less healthy

less healthy um for various reasons it's just they're the ones that are going to get the brunt of it because you know that's the biggest ticket item that we have and we're going to pay what we can afford i think there's probably some fans that listen to us and say well the top drivers in the sport make millions. You know, you guys are, you guys are very well off. You drive safe cars every week. You make a lot of money. Why would, uh, healthy driver salaries, how would that change the total scope of the sport? Would you no longer be relying on sponsors to fund a driver's career? Yeah. Yeah. So that, what that does is allow us then to hire the best talent, best talent available, right? We're not at that point, we won't be looking for, well, does it financially make sense to

hire this driver, right? We're just going to say, you know, if we're in a healthier spot, we're going to say, give me the best guy. And if there's one or two people that are head and shoulders above the rest, well, I'm going to pay a ton more for that guy because he's going to make the difference on my race team, especially in a world where we, you know, live in a world where the cars are very, very homogenous and are all the same, basically. So drivers, crew chiefs, all of the, them. Everyone should care about this because it affects everyone in the long run. Yeah, we, that was, we won't spend that much time on all of them. I think that was about 15 minutes. So let's mark that off, Jared, and then keep rolling.

Watch, it's going to lean on it again. We've got to keep going. No, no, no. There's Jared's choice on here, so we could come back to it. Okay. More lawsuit. The wheel said we're not. not done. I think it's loaded. I think the wheels loaded. Oh. All right. Two tires stop. I guess we're getting into your race here a little bit. Yeah. So we just were really smart this weekend. We took two tires with 15 laps to go. Did anyone else take two tires? I don't know that answer. I'm not really sure. But regardless, we came in pit road, wherever we came in, we were probably

about middle of the pack, ish. And he called me to pit road. I thought I did an okay job coming to pit road. We come in, we take two tires, I leave pit road, and at that point, I'm the last car to come off

pit lane. And I knew I had some damage, and so I didn't, I really couldn't tell much of the extent of the damage that I had most of the day, because I was in the pack. I was, you know, I had a lot of air disturbed around me, so I didn't see, understand how slow my car was. But when I came off the last car on pit road, and I started to, as I'm going through the gears, I'm starting to see cars pulling away. I'm like, oh, this is not

good. I'm going to lose the draft. And very quickly. And it's something with the aerodynamic package of this car. It's very easy to lose the draft if you're the tail end, even if your car is is healthy. But I just had entirely too much damage. We spent, you know, too much time on the cycle. You know, it's somewhere between when I desailed off a turn four to when we left pit road, we spent too much time. I don't know where that time was and me and Chris will dive in it today.

But we came off last off pit road and I lost the draft. But it turned out to be quite, quite. the break. Yeah, I mean, you have now finished in the top 10 in the last nine Talladega playoff races. So if you're anything, you're consistent. I mean, you are. Wow. That's interesting, stat. I would have never guessed that. Yeah, Tyler sent me that last night. He said, asked Denny if he knows the answer to this. So, yeah, I mean, it, uh, the damage. The damage was, was a killer for us. But, you know, even so, even if we would have kept on to the back of that pack, we would have been at the tail end of that mayhem that happened. So people that don't know

and you're kind of listening to the podcast, you didn't get to see the race. There was a big wreck. We'll dive into that. But I fell off the back of the pack. And so I was probably about a mile away from the actual wreck when it happened. So I avoided this 25 car pile up because I was on the other side of the racetrack about a mile away. And so I know that when I went down the back stretch and all I saw was black skid marks on the racetrack, I looked and I'm like, you can kind of see how many cars were, I'm like, holy, that's a lot of skid marks. There's a lot of cars in this.

And when I came through the start finish line and I caught up to the back of the pack, there was only like eight cars in front of me. and I knew I was last like 35th. I was just like, oh, wow, what a turn of events this was. Yeah, I mean, you're racing, and then all of a sudden your spotter comes to a race. Wrecking on the back, wrecking on the back, wrecking on the back, wrecking on the back. Jesus Christ, that means you're on the other side of the track. Right, right.

And so we don't have Lulu on there. Lulu's now the good luck dog. You would say that there's no question this weekend was absolutely fortunate luck, correct? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I think Gay Part was, he's like a perfect plan. I did it all, you know, you can tell I was in control.

But your audio, I think 15 to go was the last thing that was said and there was nothing on your audio until wreck. Like, were you just like, there's nothing else to be said? Were you just hoping or what was going through your mind there? We didn't say a thing on the radio. No, I mean, it was. I just, what can I say? I'm going as fast as I can.

I'm holding it wide open and we're losing the pack at a quick rate. So I think you were, you're going to, you were 15 back on the playoff cut at that point. Were you aware of that? No, I knew it was bad, though. I knew I was last. I mean, there's only a couple cars out of the race. I knew I was last. And I knew that all the playoff cars were in that pack about a mile away that I couldn't see.

I think the bigger question, though, that I have with, you know, this topic here is that why, why does it seem like these green flag stops never go right for the 11 team? Like not once in this race Did you come down pit road And then cycle midpack You always come down pit road in the rear Stay in the rear And if you're in the rear You're supposed to be the guy who's saving the most

Some of the most gas Right You know it's there's a lot of factors in it I mean it's you know The driver's got a huge Huge responsibility to Get on and off pit road And get into his box and all those things

All those things matter When it comes to when this pack is separate by, you know, 1.5 seconds, you can lose a second in a really quickly. And so, you know, that's a factor. How much time you spend putting fuel in the car. I know typically we wait for fuel a lot. So I just, I don't know. I wish I had a better answer for you, but until I kind of get it broken down to me today, I'm not really sure, but certainly we didn't, we weren't on the good end of the green flag cycles. Next spin here, Travis.

Damage to the 47. So your race winner had a huge hole in his left side door. He had some door foam missing. He had a hole in his door. This is where I think common sense would come into play. However, you do have rules. Do I think that the 47 should have come down? and fixed or put bare bond over his door.

Yes, by the letter of the law. That's why you make rules. So you have protocols and you enforce those rules. There's many topics on this wheel that we're going to be talking about rules. But they didn't. And when I heard Elton Sawyer say after the race, it was news to him that the 47 had a hole in his door. I'm not really sure what we're doing.

It just seems like, you know, I hear constantly from NASCAR a lot of reasoning behind calls that they make saying we didn't know. We didn't have a good angle. We can't judge. Like, you have the resources to do it. Why aren't you? Eventually, you have to hold your sanctioned and body account. to say you got to do better and while I think it had no do I think there's a safety problem with the 47

in what I saw in his car I do not I think that common sense if there was no rule common sense says he's fine just let him go and he won the race the the issue is is the rules they didn't follow the rules and this will be example number one and they had plenty of time too we like we're going to in a little bit how much time we spent under caution. Like, it's not like it was a quick cleanup and they... My guess is TV did not just ignore it. I don't, but I don't remember TV bringing up his door. Section 3337, a cup series rulebook states,

A, energy absorbing foam blocks must be installed on the outside surface of the left and right side door. And B, door foam that has been damaged or crushed must be replaced. Effective May 4th, 2022. door foam that is missing skin, including all machine foams, must be replaced. It's one of many, Jared. I don't know what to say. We can make a huge deal about this, or we can make a really huge deal about the things that

really played a huge factor in the results of the race, which is other topics on this wheel. This one did not. The 47, I mean, there's many others. There's many others I could add to this. But it passed inspection, though. How does that happen? well because that's a that's a rule that typically gets enforced kind of in the race

like they'll look at it and see my but there's there's just so many others that you don't see I know that the 6th and the 17 had the roof rails missing after the race did you all know that

I didn't the 4 got decued after the race because he had bowl missing out of the windshield. You're talking about... The 6 and the 17 had their... Right side fins gone. They were removed.

When you say the four car got... You're talking about last year with Harvick. Yes. Okay. Just then when people think. So what are we talking about here? This is our... When you see Jeff Gluck and those guys

really kind of getting agitated, this is what it is. is it's so inconsistent you have rules and when you rule on one one way rule the same on the next and so is it an accident the six and the 17 both had both pieces missing from their car post race no i i don't care what excuse anyone tries to give that you know it was clearly manipulated in some sort of way to distort And when it distorted, it fell off. So it's just one of many, and it makes it hard to sit here and maintain a neutral opinion about it.

Because it just doesn't make sense on why sometimes it's a penalty. Sometimes it's not. It just depends on it makes you believe that there's bias in our series. And whether it's true or not, that's the perception. And sometimes perception is reality. Are the people that are doing the inspections and making these calls? Are they the same week-to-week or is it a different group of people? Like, how's that go?

Like with other sports, it's kind of easy to understand. Like, what's the, how's it work for NASCAR? I don't know. Exactly. I would think, I would hope that they have the same people up there all the time. But this is three weeks in a row. We're talking about the tower. Or we're talking about the officials post race.

Like it's, they are, we have enough chaos in our playoffs. We don't need them to add to it by bad officiating. But for three weeks in a row, we're talking about them being topics of the results of our race. The goal for NASCAR in 2025 should have Elton Sawyer on TV less than five times a year. I should not know that guy's name. he should not be interviewed after every race. Yeah, and he's, listen, they've got a tough job. We've stated that a million times.

And there's been many times I've stuck up for NASCAR officiating because I need to hear it from their point of view. And I had conversations with Elton this morning because I said, listen, hey, I've got to try to explain this. I've got a few questions I need answered on these other topics. And so I wanted them to have ample opportunity. And I heard what he said post-race to the media members.

But now, you know, I have to try to explain to the audience is listening in. How did we get here? What was the mindset on the rural changes? So we'll get into it. But it's, I want to be fair to everyone. and being fair is understanding that they have a tough job, but also it's understanding that they need to do a much better job than what they're doing. And eventually we have to hold people accountable for not doing their job that well.

I think we just forego one wheel spin here, and I get to just move it to whichever one says yellow flag lifted cars are allowed to pit, but pace car doesn't move. Red flag. yeah the red flag um move it over one one more nope no the other way yeah there you go red flag yeah so i mean on this topic um gosh it we could go on and on and i just don't want i guess i don't want to get into it for that much longer because it drives me crazy but we we managed to change the rule from last week.

And you will hear through some media outlets that they didn't change. They just interpreted it different. When Elton Sawyer started his press conference with the words, with this week, we decided to blank, that's all you need to hear. There's nothing, no more context you need to hear.

And what he was saying is that we, this week, decided we wanted to err on the side of competition to help the competitors out. They didn't notify any of the teams of that. That's the problem. If you change your mindset and say this week we're going to do this, at least everyone knows. But you cannot start by saying this week we decided blank. It ain't this week.

You made a rule stick to the rule. Don't change it because of how you feel that day or who's involved because one Once again, you had the conspiracy theorists out there, and they're starting to get legs. They're saying, you are biasing this as favoritism to one team or organization. And it's starting to look that way based off of what you did. So there are many that benefited. I understand that part. Think about this, and I tried to explain this the best I could to them, that while you might be helping one or two,

you've hurt 10 or 12 other organizations. Like it has a negative effect when you help someone out to make sure they don't go a lap down. And not saying that they're, they got directly eyes on someone saying, we don't want them to go a lot down. But the choices you made allowed them to either fix their car while we're sitting over in turn two, not moving, or pushing them to their pit box,

which we said we were not going to do. and not change the rule until next year, who came up with the idea to allow it? That person must be held accountable. It doesn't make sense. And now it's harder and it gets harder and harder to justify why they're making the decisions they're making unless there's something we don't know.

And that's all I'll say. Well, you texted Elton Sawyer as a member of the media. Yeah, I wanted, I said, listen, I've got a job this morning, and for a couple hours, I need to be a media member. What, what, why is this? And I, and I, and I, and I, I, I still don't agree with it. Um, you know, I understand. And let me give you his perspective is that, is that the DVP was never intended to take capable cars out of the race. okay it was never intended

to take cars out of the race I understand that however many capable cars have ended the race I had no body damage at Daytona but I had two broken toe links and when they tried to push me

my car kept going in circles so I said it's over when in that down I'm out had they towed me to the pit box we could have fixed those toe links and kept on digging so the problem is you can't change it now because other people's seasons have been decided by this rule

in one way, shape, or form. You can't change it in the middle of your playoffs. You can't change your mindset in the middle of the playoffs. There's too many people affected. We're already in a bull-shed round that we've had one legitimate racetrack. We're going to go to a roval that's just going to be absolute ridiculousness, you're deciding people's seasons by making these choices, and it's just not fair to everyone. Make it fair to everyone by, you know what, it doesn't matter who you are, who you're with, we go by the rule. And while Josh Barry's incident last week was stupid, it was by the rules. And so you've got to live with it's by the rules. And that's why Josh Barry after the race is they better not be towing anyone in a pit box over there.

They better not be. Yeah, I feel like their statement last week made it easy for them with this. Brad Moran clarified it. Did he not? Publicly. Yeah. We did it by the rules. So while it looked screwed up and it probably was, it doesn't matter.

We played by the rules. This weekend, they did not play by the rules. They changed them and they changed their mindset and didn't. notify one team member of that change of mindset. What's funny in all this is that what you're referring to is only just a small part of what happened yesterday. You're talking about cars, some cars being towed to the pit box, some cars being towed to the garage, but they also towed cars of the pit box and then let them start working on it while

while we're sitting there in a red condition. So they're not going lapsed down. I don't care what the light was. That was a red flag condition. Because if the pace car is not moving, that's called a red flag. If the pace car is moving, it's called a yellow flag. Just because someone decides to turn on the lights, doesn't change what the situation is.

And if you look at the timestamp, when they lifted the red flag and put out the yellow caution light, we still didn't go green for another 25 minutes. So the red flag came out at 434, 23, 23 local yellow. was at 440305 and it wasn't green until 507.13. So I'm seeing. I've never been in a situation where

we were red, then went yellow and then didn't go green for another 25 minutes. That makes no sense. They wanted people to be able to work on their car. There's no other way you can justify this. So Elton Sawyer...

And so I listened to what the reasoning was and it was that we saw, we said, all right, we got to get this cleanup going. Elton says, you know, this is taking too long. We got to get these things going. So we went yellow. That doesn't make cleanup go any faster.

That makes it go slower because while we're going around the wreck, you're keeping tow vehicles, rollbacks and all that from moving because they have to navigate us. Like, stay red as long as you have to. to get it cleaned up. That way, when we go yellow, we can go round once, get the one to go, let's go racing. That's the proper way to do this. And you can't touch your car while we're sitting there on the backstretch, because how that

affects the finish is that it is an art to the DVP clock for the teams. They find ways to repair these cars without going to lap down, but sometimes you have to go multiple laps down, but you use all of your DVP clock to get the car fixed because you know you got one shot to make minimum speed. Well, you've got cars that are limping around the racetrack that are, no, they can't fix it. They're just trying to make all the laps they can. And you got others, Chase Elliott brought it up that didn't even make DVP clock that should have been multiple laps down, but they weren't. And then you got others that worked on their cars

to avoid going a lap down because we're sitting in turn two, not moving under a yellow condition. This order, this finishing order of Talladega was a sham at best. What's ironic is that these rules in general

are put in place to make these decisions easy, right? Like last week, how you said, the Josh Barry thing was a bit ridiculous, but it was... ideal but it was by the rules and brad moran said it to us and he explained it he says here's why we didn't do it is because he couldn't move right and so while it stinks and it stinks for them that was by the rules but but we felt like we messed up last week so now this week we're going to change it but we're not going to tell anyone we're going to change it until it happens that is that is

just not acceptable i'm sorry people that don't don't want change and you want things, hey Larry Mac, you've been 67, 70 years, you don't want things change. This is why you got to have change because this is ridiculous. Does the race director make all the calls? I don't know. I don't know that. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's by a committee or there's one person or somebody is on the radio

saying, release the red, let's go to yellow. And then there's somebody evidently that said, Well, I can't go to yellow because there's the tracks block. They're still towing cars. And I told them on the radio, if you heard my radio, I said, Chris, there didn't know we're near getting this cleaned up. There's still five cars sitting down there. But yet we went back yellow.

In a situation where everyone's fuels tight and everything, it just made no sense to me at all. And it will be very interesting to see how others justify. All right. We're going to the wheel. is there anything on here that we haven't covered yet? Yeah. Jared's choice.

Oh gosh, I'm not prepared for this. Well, look at the wheel. Tell me what you want to tell you. Oh, he just moved at one. The big one. The big one. Oh, the big one. Holy cow.

What happened there? I went back and watched it. I looked at, I looked at, I looked at his data as much as I could. And it just felt like to me as someone that does. this that the 21 and the 22 just kept pushing the 6 and didn't get off of them. And obviously the 6 is coming to the 2 car with such a run that, and I think Brad tweeted it, that, you know, listen, I'm trying to lift. You know, he didn't lift a lot, by the way, but he did lift some and he did hit some break to try to slow down the run. But he just got shoved into it a wreck. And unfortunately,

for those guys that kind of probably initially caused it, which is the 22 and the 12, and the 21. You know, they got, they got bit by, by the actions that they started. So, you know, we see this a lot. Certainly with this next-gen car, the runs get big. And, I mean, this thing took out everyone. 25 cars. Yeah, it took out so many cars.

and so it's just yeah they were coming with a run and it's not like Cindrick put a bad block on or anything like that he just got out there and you know these these at inside line started stacking up

did Todd Gillen? I looked at that I didn't think that Todd Gillen had a huge role in this I saw the people were mentioning that you know we went by them and but I just I don't know I mean maybe it had an effect with the air that allowed them to bunch up the way they did. But, you know, this is on the spotters of the 21 and

22 to say that, you know, while you're shoving this six, yes, you know, he's two, you got two car lengths ahead. You have to plan that that gap is going to close really quickly. And so you got to get off the guy. And they didn't. And it caused a wreck. Is this the downside of the Ford's they're so good at pushing, but maybe they got too aggressive? Well, they were certainly aggressive. I don't know if it's a downside. Certainly the forwards have dominated qualifying, things like that. So it's just, yeah, I don't, I just don't think so. I just think this was driver error, driver and or spotter errors that caused the big one. And so that's really the only two or three cars you really got to talk about because it's, you know, everyone else is just collateral damage at that point. I mean,

was it error though, or is it just the fact that we finally got to a point in the race where you guys could race and not save fuel. There wasn't a point in this race prior to this where you looked like you were going to wreck. Well, we I mean, we allowed there to be plenty of photo ops of four wide, but we're not, no one

was going anywhere. We were all log jam, we're all saving fuel kind of at those points of the race. So it there just wasn't much movement. There wasn't a lot of aggressive pushing throughout the day just simply because most of the day was all fuel saving and it was fuel saving for the whole field.

Are you in the car thinking like with, I don't know, five to go? I guess you got a hypothesis here because you're on the other side of the track. But are you like frustrated? Like I can't go anywhere. Oh, yeah. Just like. Yeah, I was like the second or third car on the top of four wide, the top, middle of the four wide and like we're all going nowhere because the front cars they don't want to

run any more than half throttle and everyone behind them is running you know a third throttle and everyone's just trying to save fuel because you know that passing with this next gen car on a super speedway is so hard that we're trying to spend the least amount of time on pit road so when that green flag cycle happens we're towards the front of it because it essentially guarantees you a good finish if there's not a wreck. Because once this thing goes two, three wide, the cars have so much drag you cannot pull out of line. Hence, let's just spin this over two notches to the final restart.

It's why, one more. No, one more. Other way. Other way. Other way, other way, other way, other way, other. Good. One more. We'll talk about the final restart here.

Kyle Bush went from trying to win the race to dead last of the cars running. because he tried to pull out of line. And nobody went with them. These things do not let you pull out of line because they have so much freaking drag on them. So, you know, while I saw some complaints on X about, you know, while that last green white checker was pretty mild and tame, we're all just trying to stay in line because if you pull out of line, it's over. unless you have a brigade of cars that are willing to go with you, it's done. And so, you know, those days are over. You have to stay in line, which is why track position is so important, which is why we

save fuel the entire day, is to just limit that time on pit road. So it's just, this is a, it's a compounding issue that it's showing up, you know, this is a car thing that turns into a fuel thing, which turns into a track. position thing, and that's why you're seeing the kind of racing that we've had. What did you think was going to happen when you were riding on the front stretch and every other car was on the backstretch? Were you resigned to finish in P30? I had no choice. I was going to finish P30 something. But did you think they were going to wreck? I did. I just didn't know if it was going to happen on the white flag lap. That's typically when they do wreck. And so by then it's too late.

You're not going to get a restart. So I thought. thought that and you don't know if it's a one car wreck, two car wreck or whatever, but a 25 car wreck was just icing on the cake for me. Not that it was a different strategy, but did you feel like a little like redemption for Atlanta or like, see you guys? Yeah. No matter how we try to spin it, this was not, this was lucky. And I talk about luck in our support a lot and we were on the very, very fortunate end of it.

Jared, would you? I did not think they were going to wreck. There was no sign throughout this entire race besides Ross pushing Kyle at the end of stage 1 through the corner that you were going to wreck, that any of these cars were going to wreck. They just look too stable. Yep, you're right.

And again, we're all just trying to save fuel the entire time. And so the only time we're not is inside that last fuel window. And that's when everyone was three wide, not going anywhere. Right. And also looking at the guys who were up front. You know, you have William Byron, you have other playoff drivers. If I'm their crew chief, if I'm their spotter, I'm saying, hey, just finish this race. Just get to the checkered flag.

We're plus 35 here. Look at the big picture. We don't need to do anything stupid that would end up or put us in the garage here at the end of this race. I figured, yeah, what do you tell me to do? Just go over one. This way or this way? Yep, that way. Yeah.

So trying to knock off all these. Bowman Blaney's what we're on. The Bowman Blaine. That's exactly who is maybe the biggest benefactor of the big wreck. Was it me or Blaney? You. You? Your season was open.

Your season was done. That wasn't. You're going to make up 17 points at the Roval? I was going to win the Roval. I was going to win the Roeval. The Bowman Blaney thing can, as, drivers, I'm starting to see a trend. Whenever you wreck someone, you just say, man, I hate it. I hate it that that happened. I saw two weeks in a row with Briscoe and now Bowman, man, I just, I hate it for them. And yeah, right, you're just trying to say whatever you can to make them not pissed at you, which is a good idea, very good idea. Bowman ran into Blaney and

crashed him and that was where I got my damage I ran in the back of the 22 because I was right there in the middle of it yeah I mean Blaney went from I don't know where he was before that big wreck but he had to have been in the negative

no question right because he was last and all the playoff guys were towards the front but when that big wreck happen. I mean, Blaney has got to be jumping up and down in his bus saying, thank you. I've got friends back here. Playoff friends that are going to finish in the 30s just like me. So he didn't lose as much in his fact. He's actually in a pretty decent spot plus 20 something. Yeah, he's in a great spot. Considering where he was. Yeah. So, I mean, there's not much you can say about the Bowman and Blaney thing. Bowman just

just pushed them wrong and coming to the line. Like, I just, I didn't really see a big benefit in pushing right there at the line. Like, you're not going to, there's nothing to gain, I don't think. In that instance, you're locked in whatever position you're pretty much at. So, just a push gone wrong. You get like one spot maybe? One thing we've noticed, though, is it, is it pays to be the one that actually causes the wreck or makes the first initial contact right the six got away with on the two right and then

bowman ended up free and clear from the the blaney wreck so when all else fails just hold the gas down and run into them is a recto inevitable at that point like when a car it seems like when a car is backing up like blaney was backing up in the middle right bowman's come in blaney's backing up so so so boman's probably then trying to battle somebody side by side with him more than likely. That's probably why he was pushing the 12 or trying to get the 12 to go is that he's probably, Bowman's probably got people on both sides of him that he's racing to the line. So he doesn't want to slow his momentum by checking up for the 12 who's backing up. Instead, he just try to push him to keep your momentum going. Right. However, my guess that's what happened.

If Bowman checks up, there's no brake headlights on these, brake lights on these cars. If he checks up, the guy behind him is just going to continue his speed, right? But it's like a chain reaction on a highway, though. The wreck happens because people react late. As long as you react quick enough and start to slow down your speed, you know, when you see you're catching him at a really, really fast pace, you start checking up your speed well before you actually get there. It's, it's, the wrecks happen when you're going wide open, wide open,

and all of a sudden, bam, you slam on brakes. That's when the chain reaction happens because eventually, somebody's not going to be able to catch up to that. So Bowman's not avoiding himself getting wrecked by checking up and slowing down. That's what I'm asking. Yeah. He's not avoiding. Say it, ask that again?

Like, if Bowman's not thinking there, well, if I start checking up here, then Larson's just going to get in the back of me and I could be the guy going on. I think he's just trying to battle the cars beside him. That's more than likely what it was. Got it. There's no way we don't land on something we've already talked about. Lawsuit. Oh, no. New.

swara as wreck swore as wreck i wanted to get to that what the hell was he doing i you listen to the end car and you're thinking well maybe the spotter told him to get up the spotter did not

i have no idea what daniel was doing or thinking in that moment um because he was going so much slower than the pack uh but there was a two car with gap between the last car that passed and then BJ.

And he thought that just turning right right in front of BJ was a good idea. Now, thinking about this, what it could have caused is a chain reaction, then caused a caution, and then he got his lap back. So I'm wondering the conspiracy theorist to me is like, was he trying to cause a caution to get his lap back? Like create some chaos, right? clearly he wanted a chaos because he put himself right in the middle of the pack when they're coming on him 20 miles an hour faster he's zigzag I'm watching he's zigzagging kind of where am I going to go I'm going to make you all think am I going to go high am I going to go low and then finally the field splits them and then they get behind them they're like this guy's not going they split him again and he's going so slow that there's just you got to just take your lumps your lap down you're the only car lap down just get to the end of the stage. You'll be okay.

Or the Greenfly pit cycle. There could be a caution there. But he takes an abrupt right, right into front of BJ, and there's no way BJ could have reacted in time, given the difference in mile per hour, and he crashed himself. I mean, your spotter on the radio way before this says, hey, 99's getting past. He's going to cause havoc.

He's going to cause havoc. Everyone saw it coming. Yeah, it just, you know, it fortunately, for the field, Daniel and his team were the ones that got the bad end of the stick, but it very well could have screwed other people over by him, you know, making this chaotic move that just, that wasn't, that's not ideal for sure. Not at the speeds we're going and it just, that was, that was ill-advised. Is there a benefit to blending with the pack there? Like, is he worried that he's not going to be able to latch on to the tail

and then he's going to have to do this again in five more laps or whatever it is and then he could go two down? Yeah, I mean, it's a worry. You don't want to go two down for sure. But he was going to blend. There was enough cars lagging at the back of the pack that he was going to be able to blend with some of them.

Like, you know, not everyone was in the racing pack, the Peloton. So you had enough stragglers in the back that he was going to be able to blend and still stay one down. So this is just a stupid move. You said it. I feel like DBC won't have an issue picking there

or what an idiot this week. We're getting down to it. Come on. I think Ricky went. No, it's your choice. Which one that we haven't talked about? Ricky wins. Yeah, go over two.

One, two. So let's finally talk about the winner. Ricky Stenhouse gets his fourth win. Yep, two at Daytona, two at Talladega. Yeah, fourth win on a Super Speedway and the fourth win of his cup career. This is an awesome deal for Ricky, and certainly, you know, he's had probably a lackluster season in comparison. However, if you just look at, if you want to create a sound bite out of this,

he's won now in back-to-back years. one Daytona 500 last year, one at Taldega this year. It's a big deal for the team. Certainly there's been some rumors swirling around where that team goes at the end of this year, whether it's rebranded, what will they have for sponsorship at the end of the year? But this certainly can go a long way for them to help this team continue to survive and thrive. I mean, I remember him saying top 15, they get bonuses there. That just shows, you know, kind of where that team is at.

Yeah. And, you know, it's kind of unfortunate for them because, you know, winning in the playoffs when you're not part of them, it doesn't really do anything for you in the playoff in the, in the, you know, financially like it did for the Wood Brothers. You know, they go from wherever they were in points and they jump up 20 spots or 15 spots. You know, this is just going to, you know, help them a little bit. but it's more of a big morale boost for him and his team. And as they look towards the future and what that holds for them, it certainly they can use this as fuel to want to keep this train going. Can they race and get at least to like 17th as that pay?

I don't think they're too far back, I think, to get there. But I don't know where that race for 17th is at. But they can though. So like the non-playoff drivers are racing for 16th. Correct. Yeah. Any non-playoff. driver and team is racing to try to get to 17 points.

That's the highest you can get. You can argue that now in the next gen era, that driver's skill at these Super Speedways, you know, doesn't matter all that much. But here again, we see a winner, Ricky Stenhouse Jr.,

who's clearly a guy who's good on Super Speedways, finds his way up front and does win the race. Yeah, it certainly is something that, I believe it's diminished driver skill just simply because of the track position and whatnot. But you continue to see some of the same characters up front. And so you can't deny that or discredit those that are finishing well at these super speedways.

And so they're doing a good job. You've got to study what they're doing. Constantly evolve your craft to figure out, you know, listen, everyone's got the same rules. that they're racing by and they're going to crown a winner today, how is it going to be you? And so I think that they found a way and they did it through, you know, several different avenues.

But in the end, you know, we had to have a winner to 47 put themselves up front when it really counted. He really knows how to celebrate and climb fences. Yeah. I think he was trying to show off some of his athletic ability. Sliding down the rails. Jeez. Yeah.

Yeah. So he's got works out hard on his fitness and he was showing that. off there post race. So hats off to him. It's certainly big. He's a new dad too. Stetson, right? Stetson. Yeah. Yeah. Stetson's got to be part of Victory Lane via FaceTime, we saw. So he's got a win sticker. This is big for a team like that. I got to say before Ricky became a dad, he did, used to come to cliffhangers with me. So I don't know if. Did you teach him? I'm not going to say that. Who can get up the harder walls? You or him? Me, me, me.

You are? I mean, he's obviously stronger, but strength only gets you so far. Well, I've looked on the wheel. Hold on. We only have one thing left, and I think it's a perfect wrap-up, and that is the roval. It's like the wheel knows. It started with the lawsuit. It ends with the roval.

It knew. Go this way, three. One, two, three. Well, four, sorry. So the roval. Yeah, this weekend is going to be a, Interesting. Let's start with the reconfigure.

The reconfigure was designed to create more chaos. You're going to have to convince me otherwise of that. They made corners sharper and tighter. They had actually a corner in turn seven. It was tight in turn seven anyway, back when it was the old configure, now the new configure. but now they made it to a point. So instead of you driving the normal optimum line to make this corner that is really, really tight, tighter than the Coliseum, they made it a point so they want you to drive straight in the corner, I believe, and wipe out whoever's in front of you.

And then it's going to be a parking lot in turn seven. And then it's just going to be who can navigate and get through there. So I don't know why we changed it. there's a blind spot when you go through five to six you go over a rise and your car like gets really high and in the sim it gets airborne but it doesn't it probably won in real life but we were always joking about like surely enough like SMI or somebody's going to put a jump

at one of the racetracks here soon and they've done it they've done it So we get to experience this new Roval config. And I don't know. It's, I don't know what to say about it other than try to qualify and try to avoid the wrecks. That's about it. But, you know, this is it, this is what we are now, folks. And so anyone that's griping about, well, you're a complaint. about this, that and the other, I tell you, this is the avenue we're choosing.

Is it making for more viewers or not? And so I just don't know. I don't know what we're doing, why we're doing it. You know, we got a great Oval that's at that racetrack. While I'm walking around the roval, I'm looking at the banks of the Oval thinking, man, it'd be awesome to run on that racetrack. You do. You do run on the banks of the roval.

hear you and it's been a fantastic race many many times but we're no i mean next this sunday you will run on the banks of the roval oval right right i see where you're going with that but um i don't know i i thought that the roval has just run its course but i think they changed the track to try to create some sort of um you know something to sell some tickets on and you know come come out and watch the clown shows. We're the clowns, by the way. All the drivers, we're the clowns. And so we'll give it to you this weekend.

Hopefully we get through the playoffs, and then we get to some real racing here in the next round. I think the next round is going to be key for the 11 team. If we can get there, it will be on from that point on. Fortunately, you can probably just stay out at the end of each one of these stages, pick up some stage points, finish 18th. Yeah, I don't know. 30 to the good. Yeah.

Passing will be extremely difficult. There's no question about that. Passing will be so hard at the road. Of all the road courses, the road was the hardest to pass on. Just simply because the breaking zones, it's narrow. We're out of control on the banks, you know, because our cars are set up to be running on the infield. And then when we go on the bankings, like our cars are so out of control. And the things that are different from this year to the next, or from last year, is that the aerodynamic

package is different. So, you know, spoilers, different size, the underbodies, the simple diffuser, so we don't have as much underbody downforce. So it's, it's going to be out of control on the big track. And, you know, it's going to be hard to pass in the infield. So it'll be difficult. It's going to be the same for everyone, though, so it's just about can you qualify well and avoid the wrecks. And if you can do that, you'll be good. Do you think anyone below the cut line is in a must-win scenario? Is Joey Lagano in a must-win scenario at minus 13? No.

13 is you can overcome that. The problem is that he's going to have to overcome it versus Chase and some really good road course racers that are right above that line. How many points do you need? 10. probably 10. You got nine last year. You were 50 to the good though. That was how many?

You were 50 to the good last year. You got nine. I think all those nine were probably stage points. You finished 37th, I think. God, dang. Oh, gross. Do you remember what happened? I remember that I was running well.

I qualified inside the top 10. Gabehart decided to keep me out to get some stage points. Next thing you know, I was at the back of the pack, couldn't pass a salt. goal. I was back there. I went from running top five lap times to dead last. And then I think I spun out or wrecked or I don't know what I do. You spun out and then you got wrecked again or something. I forget. Travis, do you have career stats for Denny at the Oval at the Oval? Let's not, no. I don't. You're not. No, no, we're not doing that. Don't. Don't do it.

What did, uh, what did MJ say to you at the end of that race yesterday? Uh, it just good job avoiding it all. that was it uh you know we you know we're talking about he's like all of our cars are to the plus so that's that's that's that's uh that's good thing he says all of our cars he he always includes us he he he says i'm i'm i'm a jordan guy i'm you know we're part of the team as well the 11 car is part of the 2311 team yeah so i love that he sees it that way i wonder what he was thinking 15 laps prior What an idiot.

Anything else we got to touch on here, Travis? You want to go with the review? Yeah, we got a review here. This one comes from Jay Hint, 2022. Big NASCAR fan. I love the podcast. Denny provides a great perspective from a driver's point of view. Denny can talk about what is like being in Post Malone's music video with Bubba.

Curious how that came to be. Speaking of, Postman is here in Charlotte tonight. he is that's right um yeah be interesting that'll be fun um appreciate that review there j hint 22 uh thanks for the the feedback there and certainly uh appreciate all y'all tuning in hold on you didn't answer the question what what's the question how did that come to be how are you getting postponed the most busy video um i think it came to be because they when they were shooting the video it was at Auto Club Speedway in California and they needed NASCAR's approval to use NASCAR cars in the video and then they requested I think some drivers be in it and so is that somewhat accurate Austin good enough

okay and then so we just you know got volunteered and so it was a lot of fun you know I definitely realized that I don't know if you consider Post Malone a rapper but in that he was a rapper right they definitely do things on their own schedule and so it was a pretty laid back video shoot right there was a lot of partying and a little bit of work

but it turned out really really good was that is that the only music video you've been in? I think so yeah yeah motley crew by Post Malone if you want to look it up on YouTube all right be sure to rate review follow wherever you listen to your podcast

and click subscribe on the YouTube channel this is one if you're listening on audio you're going to want to see the wheel spin so head over YouTube subscribe the full video is up every Monday well we did it we got through the wheel well done guys hour 20 it's impressive yeah all right We'll see you next week.