Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - “This Is What I Am. I’m An Oval Guy”

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Denny Hamlin is back in studio with his co-host Jared Allen after getting his 4th win of the season at Dover. 3:00 Denny was unsure if not pitting was going to work6:00 Did Ty Dillon do anything wrong not letting Denny pass him?10:20 Using his rear mirror to block Christopher Bell16:10 What was Denny’s mentality during the rain delay?22:00 Breakdown of the final three restarts31:15 Do we have a tire problem at Dover?37:00 Learning from Jimmie Johnson and Martin Truex Jr. at Dover40:30 Richard Childress isn’t happy with his cars43:30 Chase Elliott continues to be the most consistent driver46:10 Did Alan Gustafson screw up?51:00 Ty Dillon’s Cinderella run continues  59:00 Is Connor Zilisch the most impressive rookie in Xfinity Series history? Dirty Mo Media has a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Actions Detrimental merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.For more Actions Detrimental content: https://www.youtube.com/@ActionsDetrimental FanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is a public service announcement to anyone that thinks that they're going to do that. If they do it, I'm just going to hold the gas down, bounce off the wall, and take you out with me. That's what I would have done. So you know how to do it and you know how to defend it. I wasn't going to live. Following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. I believe that I've been a competitive for 20 years. Opinions from tonight's podcast, strictly biased.

You're going to hear from my point of view. I'm a fighter. No, you are not. The spoils a victory for Jared Allen. He's got better luck than Rick and Drake to win. I know, you do. Two trophies missing from your collection. The championship and the most popular driver.

Someone told me that their drinking game is when I say for sure. Yeah, and I've already said it. Hey guys, welcome to actions detrimental post Dover. Denny did Dover. Yes, I spoke in the third person. Man, great weekend. And overall for us, we got the trophy here, Miles. If you saw a social post from Jordan Fish,

she said that Miles, we nearly named our baby Miles. And that is true. That was second on the list. But any relation to this? You just like to name Miles. No, had no relation to Miles. Yeah, we're named after a monster. Yeah.

Good at Dover now. Let's name it Miles, Jordan. I'm good at that racetrack. That seems like something race car driver would do. It seemed like it would be pretty traumatizing to name a child after a monster, no? I don't know.

If he grows up to look like that, I mean, yeah, all power to him. Well, great weekend overall. Where do we even start? A cup or Xfinity? Before we start, I have a question. Okay. It was posed in our group text.

What's your thoughts when you get to your phone after a race? and you see the group text? Like the Dennybro's group text? Yeah. Do you just like on market so it gets rid of the number and you just keep moving? No, I read all my texts after the race. I mean, there's a lot.

There's hundreds. But yeah, I read them for the most part. It's just interesting to see L's conversation. What are we doing here, Trav? Do we pit or not? No, we stay out. We control the race. get the Corps lights ready.

I did. I supported Gail's decision. I love Jared's response. Okay, we ride then. Just feels like if Travis is on board, then it's a good call. You're like, no one's mind is in the race more than Travis when he's watching. Yeah. Yeah, listen, I had my, when we were the only one to stay out, I trust me, I had my doubts.

Usually, you know, if you can get a row or two buffer, you're, you're, you're, in pretty good shape. But I had the fresh tires starting on my inside for that restart. The 20, you know, got the caution that he needed to get back on the race when that rain came. And, yeah, so it flipped everything over. We said, screw it, let's just control this restart and hopefully win the race. And we were able to fend them off multiple times with old tires, not just people remember the end of the race, but that, you know, I, when I had that seven or eight lap older tires on that first restart with the 20 before that long run,

it was touch and go. I was amazed how quickly we were able to get through one and two there. But going back to that, did that call feel like a call that you just had to make? If you wanted to have a chance to win, you were going to need to be on the front row, right? And if you pit, then you're going to have to beat these guys off pit road to have a chance to restart on the front row with equal tires. I thought it was an aggressive call by Gail. Absolutely. I thought that now there was only a certain amount of cars on the lead lap at that point because of the cycle not going all the way through.

I think there were six cars on the lead lap. So if we pit, well, most of the field was in front of me anyway because of where the 20 was on the track. So most of the field waved around and got back. on the lead lap but generally speaking the risk of pitting or not pitting like if we were only going to fall back to i think third or fourth at worst chase restarted third yeah so and we were the next car behind him so we were you know if we come out behind him like we came in he we would we would have been fourth on new tires but we would have been so that means we would have been inside line second row, you're likely going to get passed by the outside guy, the third row.

So you're going to restart fifth. You're going to be fifth with that 60, 70 laps to go. You're right, not going to win from there. And Gail said, if we do what everyone else does, we had like a third best car, then we're going to stay there. So you had to do something different. Yeah, I thought we had a little better than a third place car. But when the whole picture's put, like, we weren't that great on the short run.

We were good in the long run. So you kind of, when you try to think about, well, where did my car rank this weekend? You can't just pinpoint your weakness or your strength, right? You got to kind of put the whole picture into play and thought that we were very competitive on the short run. We actually had good restarts the entire day. Just the long run seemed like where we excelled. We had just one bad run. I we had a screwed up set of tires or something the one where I got stuck behind tie

Dylan when he came out on that green flag deal we had the lead we passed the 20 in the pits or the nine had issues in the pits on the green flag sequence the 20 you know we undercut him by one lap so came out in front of him and then I just I immediately felt it when I got in the when I took the first couple corners like man I don't feel like a them on new tires. These things just are not very good. And I think I fell back to third. Yeah. Yeah, you had you said that you burnt up your tires trying to get around tied down. Is that true or they were just to begin with? I think it was a combination of both. Certainly, it's not ideal when the worst case scenario for you as a leader, when you come into pit, when you come out,

say you run three, four, five laps, and then somebody that was running at the back comes out, they got fresh tires, and they're right in front of you. So what happens is they're not the same speed as you when you're on equal tires, but when they have fresh tires and you have old tires, it now equals out your speed and you're just stuck behind this person because of the way it works out, right?

Because it's like, oh, it's the worst case scenario. They just pulled out in front of me. They're slower than I am. and now they're just going to hold me up on fresher tires. So it's just a, it's, it's just a crappy scenario. Yeah. And unfortunately, of all cars in that race, that 10 car was racing for something. Yeah, I knew that he was racing for the lucky dog.

You know, he knows that I'm the leader at the time. He wants to stay on the lead lap. Yeah, he's fighting tooth and nail for everything he can. But so in the moment you were upset. At the moment, I'm just pissed off that we just lost the lead, you know. And I think I'm all right. I don't know. I mean, I'm all right with it, generally speaking now.

You know, like even 10 minutes later, I was fine with it. But in the moment, it's like, dang it, we just got to the lead. And like, I'd move up and then he'd move up. I'd move down. He'd move down. We saw it with Suarez, you know, kind of holding up the nine, too, in the first stage, right? So it's just that's what the, that's what you do. When you try to lap cars, they don't want you to lap.

them because they know if you lap them, if you give them the right away to pass, well, then you're going to go up there and pass somebody else and now they're not the lucky dog. So all the cars at the end of the tail of the lead lap will always fight hard. But he had already gotten past for, uh, by, Bell was past him and he's still. Yeah. So what he's trying to do at that point is stay next car behind Bell to then pass whoever Bell passes next for the lead lap. If If he lets me go, then that's, it's just another buffer. He's going to run slower. I get it.

It would have been the nice thing to do to let me go. But I understand why he didn't. You then lost another spot to Alex Bowman when the 48 got around you. Did you think at that point you were just going backwards? Yeah, I just thought at that point. My car was not where I needed it. We had lost the handle of the car a little bit. I thought that the tires in general were just a bad set of tires.

Sometimes you just have a set that doesn't have as much grip as others. And I thought that was the case. And I thought that Bowman also had one of the better long run cars as well. It seemed like that was his strength. You caught a break then. Christopher Bell spins out. You move up. That's when...

Got us to the front row. That's when you get to the front row and then you're able to control the restarts from there. Do you think that... Well, no. Chase controlled the restart. I restarted on the inside of him. Pit for rain. Yeah.

And then so we take off there. I stay, you know, he, Chase would leg it out in the short run and then I'd come back to him in the long run. And then we started that pit sequence. And then, yes, we got the rain at that right after that. That's right. The short, yeah, yeah. When you do get the lead and then you're racing Chris for Bell,

are you just mirror driving him cutting off his air the whole time? Trying. I feel like defending is not my specialty. I've said that here before. I don't know where Russell has us ranked on the... I think he had me ranked 10th on defense yesterday. Yeah, you would turn. I would say the public would probably say that's probably higher than that.

Your season average is 6th. So it shows not bad. It was interesting. because if I I right before that caution came out I'd started to pull away from Bell I just quit air blocking at that point I said I'm just going to run the fastest lap time I can and see if he's actually faster than me and at that point we stretched it out to three lengths five lengths six lengths and then the caution did come out so I felt confident we were going to win the race if it goes green but yeah I just

I was there was a vulnerable point of the run no question about it the middle stages of that run where he kind of I pulled away first few laps I think I ran the fastest lap of the day at that point on my

old cycle tires he ran me back down and then at that point yes I'm using the mirrors to just try to get in his wake all that I can I hold him off I can see that he's starting to lose a little bit of his strength. I go at that point to just run minimum lap time.

Let me run the fastest line for me and what my car needs. And that's when we started stretching it back out. Yeah. So what's, like how difficult is it to air block him? Like how, you know, could you screw up? Can you air block him and then screw up and then all of a sudden now he's running faster lat times? And you're like, how difficult is that to do?

It's not as easy as they make it. out to be for sure because you're you're switching lanes in the middle of a corner right i mean you're trying to give him a different look every time um i'm trying to go into the corner low and he he's working the middle lane on me you know you probably heard on the radio he's he's one lane higher he's one lane higher or he's one lane lower and so i kept just trying to mix it up a little bit because he has a split second to make a decision on what lane he's going to run entering the corner and Well, he makes that decision based off of where he sees me going. So sometimes, and some of the best, they'll start in one lane, end up in another, and it shuts your air off,

and it actually is worse than running through the weight for the entire corner. So it is a cat and mouse game for sure. It is very, very difficult because especially if you're changing lanes mid-corner, you more than likely have to slow down more than your car needs to do that. and so then you give them an opportunity to where if you'd slow down to change your lane and they don't have to slow down in your wake, they could end up getting a big run off the corner on you. At what point in the run or the race do you decide that,

okay, this is the strategy that I need to employ here to keep the lead? Like at what point, what happens to your car or what you feel that you're like, okay, I can no longer maximize my lap time to keep him behind me. I need to like try and disrupt his lap time. it's when I was running my line the fastest lifetime I could run and he was still reeling me in and if I stayed there where I was at I was giving him his preferred groove and because the lane that I was fastest in was not the lane he was fastest in so I needed to then slow my car down to run a his lane is he burning up his stuff trying to get around you while you're

actively blocking him are you burned your stuff as well doing that? No. Why is that? Because if anything, I'm staying more under the tire to be able to be shifty in the middle of the corners to switch lanes.

So it's tough for the second car behind. Again, that's what makes Xfinity so good, is that if you choose to try to arrow block in that on that, in Xfinity, you're screwed. That back car, you do not want to run right in front of him because he's going to then, get behind you, get your car disturbed, get you up the racetrack. It's the total opposite. How you

race in traffic with Xfinity versus Cup is the exact opposite cup. The leader has 100% of the advantage. And Xfinity, if you're faster, you can just get close to the person and it gets them off the racetrack, off the bottom. So it's more of a 50-50 thing there. I think we make it sound like mirror driving is this easy thing, but you need to be paying attention to your own driving, but also looking at the mirror. Like, how hard is that actually? It's, it's harder than texting and driving. I mean, it's, you know what I mean? It's, you have to, you're looking around. Your camera's not like your heads up display in your, in your vehicle, right? This thing is off to the side and you're looking there and you're looking back up

and it's more difficult than anything. Should we get rid of it, though? Cameras, I'd be okay getting rid of those. Well, you weren't a big proponent of them in the first place when they started. No, just, especially with next gen. No, it's just, there's such an advantage by moving your car in the wake of the car behind you.

You don't want to make it easier for it. the drivers to do that. We get a brief downpour with, what was it, 14 to go, 15 to go. Did you think that it was over? You were going to victory lane at that point? I thought it was 50-50, truthfully. After,

yeah, I thought it was 50-50. I immediately got out, looked at the radar and says, okay, the mentality can't be that, you know, I'm upset that they are going to restart this race. I have to then just focus on what do I need to do to win this race. All right. I've got 14 laps

ago. I'm leading it. I need to figure out how to execute the restarts the way I need to to win the race. Don't get disappointed because the race isn't called or another storm isn't coming. That doesn't help you. You have to be on offense. How am I going to go out here and execute these restarts? And when he told me, you know, we're not pitting. I says, okay, here's the things that I need to do to make sure I'm prepared for these restarts and be good to go. I mean, first though, didn't you get out of the car mid downpour and run to the pitbox? Mm-hmm. weren't you saying that you were just getting soaked sitting in the car?

Yeah. Well, the car was so hot. So I mentioned it that I was the hottest that I was all day was those last 13 laps because the car heat soaks so much and then they throw a cover over it. So it just keeps it. It's like a thermos, right? This thing, while we're running under caution under green, we at least have air flowing into the car, flowing out of the car.

And it's using it as the car itself is just a big giant radiator, right? So it's got the air, it's flowing, it's keeping things moving, keeping the hot air flowing through. Well, when you come to a stop, all the brake heat, all the engine heat, everything just sits there. and it just sits in this bubble. And then when you go and you cover the car up, well, then you just, you insulate all that heat.

So it is really, really, really hot, usually in that instance. And so, yeah, I wanted to get out because they threw the cover on and I was like, whoa, this thing's getting hot in a hurry. And I didn't care at that point if I was getting soaked. I just wanted out of there. Hey, this is Dale Jr. And for the latest actions detrimental gear, go to shop. Media.com. We've got plenty of options for you. We're adding new stuff all the time. That's shop.

Dot dirtymomedia.com. You went and got a new fire suit on, but you also said you did some homework. Is that just like looking at numbers or maybe some restarts? Or like, what are you doing during that break to make yourself ready for the restart? I won't say it on this show because drivers listen. Next question, please. He like grabs a taco from the motor coach and then. You were there, Jared. nothing nothing exciting happens i eat chippole that's what i had what are you thinking about though technically with the racetrack are you thinking about okay the rain washes off all the rubber off this track like what do you in that respect what are you thinking about yeah i'm considering all the factors right is that okay we're going to stay out i know that there's surely going to be some

desperate people at the back of the tail end of the lead lap that are just going to stay with us so we're at least probably going to have three or four cars buffer and in eight laps, I can hold that off, especially on a clean racetrack after it rained. And so I felt confident in holding it off for one time, but not multiple, especially when new tires was making some major hay there with the 19 and a few others.

When you restart and you have control of the restart, are you expecting yourself to be clear off of turn two? are you expecting yourself to be clear by the time you come back around? Like, in your mind, where, what's your goal? Obviously, it's to clear the driver as quick as possible, but realistically, what's the... Okay. So there's two places. So you have two instances where if you are starting on the outside, you either better

clear initially, that's your initial jump, or you need to be clear off a turn two. If you're not clear either one of those two, you lost all leverage. because the inside car, as we've seen, can chase you up the racetrack, put you in the fuzz, and next thing you know, you're in big, big trouble. Luckily for me, I had two teammates that somewhat held their line, and so I was fortunate in that instance. Now, we made contact with all of them. You know, we made, I think I saw smoke off me and the 20 when we took off.

Like, just taking off, we were side by side, smoke rolling off the tires, because we were making contact. A lot of it was because me, I was running down the track because it was a big water spot off of turn four. So I didn't want to, you know, while I'm accelerating, I don't want to run through that water,

get wheels spin next thing you know he gets the momentum. So I'm trying to squeeze him down the track a little bit to avoid the water. So we're making contact all the way around. Then obviously off a four, he's coming up the track. I see him, I feel him. I can feel the air in the car,

like the pressure inside. And so I know he's getting closer and closer to me. And at that point, I'm like, please just don't run into me. Just don't clean us out here. And I think that what caused Seabal to spin was he was trying to keep it off of us, you know, doing the right thing. Yeah, well, before you got in the car, I didn't hear what he said, but you had said, please just don't clean us both out.

Yeah. Is that what you're referring to, that like actual situation there? that point he was going to stay out and so we're both on old tires i would expect him to say the same thing to me basically when if the rules were reversed he was outside like when you're outside you're putting a lot of faith on that person on the inside to do do the right thing here um race me for the win but don't go into turn one on old tires think you're going to hold it wide open and then just come up the track and clean us both out you know and so I knew that we were both going to restart on, I don't know, what, 50 lap tires, you know,

we're vulnerable, just a heads up. I just wanted to put it in his brain that, think about it when you're down there, think about it when you're entering one. And on top of that, I'm thinking maybe I can put some doubt in his head to make him not enter the corner quite as hard, and then I get the advantage. So did you think you were, were screwed though? Because you didn't clear him off of, off of two. I did. When we, were going down the back stretch and we were still side by side yeah I had I was

I thought it was going to be tough if the caution doesn't come out let's just say he doesn't wreck I think we end up having a photo finish at the start finish line I don't see any one of us clearing at any point on that final lap I think we would have came off

turn four side by side so bell spins out caution comes out you got another restart this time Larson is inside of you, Brist goes behind you. You get a great push from the 19. You clear Larson going into turn one, really. Do you think at that point this race is over? You've won the race?

Yes. Yeah, when I cleared Larson right away, kind of entering turn one, we're going down in the backstretch, we're starting to enter three. No caution. I'm like, yes, they ain't getting around it. Like, we're good. Caution comes out and is like, got to do this again

and then now it's the 19 on fresh tires and so because the 5 didn't the 19 got a great push and just but did the 5 had fresh fresh tires too? No

I don't believe so okay it was like seventh on back when all those cars put I think the 19 might have been the first car first one okay yeah and obviously

I knew the 19 was getting good restarts on those fresh tires on initial takeoff because his tires are cooler, they got more grip. And so I, yeah, when I restarted beside the 19, that was going to be the toughest task because I knew he was going to get a good jump. I knew it because the previous restart,

he pushed me past the 5. So that means he got a good jump. So I just felt like, you know, the 19 was going to give me a tough run there on those new tires, and he did. Yeah, you almost cleared you off of turn 2. I'm just asking again, you thought you were screwed there as well? I thought so, but I just hung on.

I mean, I just held the gas down as hard as I could and made sure I stayed as close to his car as I could to drag him back with the arrow and just hoped at that point he stayed in the bottom line and didn't chase us up the track. He really emphasized that he wanted to race you cleanly because you were a teammate and that you've never, you know, raced him any other way.

what could he have done to really just put the nail in the coffin for you? Well, the only thing really is that probably through one and two, what he could have done was run me up the track, forced me to lift off the turn two. I wasn't going to. I would have probably taken him with me. Like, I would have kept the, what I would have done is kept my foot down. You know, if someone's going to chase me up the track,

this is a public service announcement to anyone that thinks that they're going to do that if they do it I'm just going to hold the gas down bounce off the wall and take you out with me that's what I would have done so you know how to do it and you know how to defend it I wasn't going to lift there's just no way I'm in control the race

it's our race to lose you know running me up the racetrack that's what he could have done I just think it probably would have been bad for both of us did you gain any leverage back by staying on his outside going into three and four or were you still playing from behind? I'm still playing from behind because he, again, he has the ability to side draft us. I can't really side draft him quite as much.

We're nose to nose. He has the bottom preferred lane. Again, no issues there. If he didn't have issues off of turn four, we're side by side still that whole entire final lap. So at what point does this all shift? you're able to get this run down the front stretch to clear i'm like what what uh what uh what leads to that off a turn four we got close right like he was coming up the track coming out the track he started to sense in his body whatever the 20 felt right before he crashed and he and he you know we made contact

it's interesting tv didn't really get the angle of our contact that well i i saw it in secondary cameras today on social media but we made a significant amount of contact off of turn four and that just the momentum that I had by not lifting from that was able to clear me into one. At that point, once I'm clear, I know that it's over. You talked about it in the TNT post-race interview, but you had to switch up your restarts a bunch between the first and the third. Yeah, I tried. I did a, with the 20, I did a second-gear restart.

With the 5, I did a first-gear restart. I did a first gear restart. And that was so successful. I'm like, oh, I'm just going to do that again. But dumb me, the reason I got the good jump is because I got pushed by the 19. So he knew that was coming because he saw that it was successful. He knows what I'm going to do. So I should just mix it up one more time.

And you can do it by changing the pace of which you, you know, maybe at the last minute, you change the pace of kind of what you're running, shift to a second gear and it catches the person off guard. So I just, I thought I, I thought I did mix it up, but just not enough, not considering who was behind me. He just saw what I accomplished doing what I did that time. It was dumb on me to do this, try to think that the same thing was going to work again. I'm not a car guy at all. I know nothing about, shocker. Yeah.

I know, I know nothing about RPMs. But is like a first gear restart and a second gear restart? Is that like an equivalent to like Mario Kart when you nail the restart and get like, the boost because you're shifting the gear and you take off? Yeah, but Dover is one of those tracks where the gearing is, it's not optimal for that racetrack. Like the drop, I don't know what they call them. This, Bozzie would know.

But the first and second gear are just, you're at pace car speed, you're either winding out first gear where your engine's like really high RPM or in second gear it's lugging. You know, so if you, choose first gear you got to shift right away because as soon as you take off you're already pegging it a lot of RPM so you got to shift but in second gear even if you get the good jump

you're lugging so much that like they don't have to time it as as well because you have no thrust out of the hole so you you know typically you try to mix it up and you always try to restart in the highest gear um highest RPM gear to try to get the advantage over second place where whoever understands the jump and modulates the throttle is going to get the best start. But it's complicated.

So much more than what you see on TV. It's like a high risk, high reward situation. It is because I could spin the tires. You know, I could spend the tires. You know, even though I know when I'm going, I know how much throttle I want to apply to not spend the tires in short shift, I still am at risk of spinning tires in first gear.

Speaking of tires, how were these tires this weekend? I thought they were better. I thought it wasn't a lot different than what we had. I mean, Goodyear's trying to put us on softer tires. It's just we haven't found the limit of like how soft we can go. The pace wasn't that much different. A lot of it was because of the temperature of the racetrack. It was brutally hot out there.

So the gain of the grip of the tire. was offset by the loss of grip of the racetrack this weekend. So yeah, I think that you've got to just keep creeping this thing forward. You know, we're trying to get softer, but it's just these next-gen cars do not load the tires like the old Gen 6 does. I think a lot of people were bashing the race afterwards saying how you could hold people off on these old tires. But how much during before that were you kind of not using your tires up and managing it

so that you could go that long. That's what I do. I mean, it's typically what I try to do as much as I can is to always, if I don't need it, don't use it, right? And so it's part of it, but here at this racetrack, like guys staying out on old tires

and holding people off, that's been a thing for decades now, decades and decades. So I don't think it's anything new. I certainly think that restarting on 60 or 70 lap tires and then running the fastest lap of anyone all day on the last white flag lap

might be a red flag. Is that because you're trying harder? No, I just think it was track conditions. Just the track was super clean. We hadn't laid any rubber after the rain. The tires cooled back down from the red flag. But it just tells you that

clearly there's not much wear because if there was a lot of wear, it would have been tough to fire off and still run that quick. Right, right. Yeah, you said that the tires didn't even feel like you said you had no idea that if they had had stickers on them, you would have no idea. That's wild. That's wild. I'm telling these guys and the Denny Bro's group child is like, hey, FYI, those cars behind them have quote, unquote, new tires. Those are things that are supposed to matter according to this podcast. But think about it, it did matter for everyone but the leader. You know what I mean?

Watch the restarts. Chase Briscoe, he blew by cars. Cleaner versus no cleaner. That tells you how big an advantage first place has over the entire field. Were you shocked, speaking of clean air when Chase did make that decision to pit? I thought he was going to stay out. I did. I just think that we didn't have that many laps on tires.

However, he's thinking the same thing I was second guessing after everyone pitted. is that, well, if I don't pit, I'm going to have C-bell and these guys on fresh tires right beside me. So surely they're going to beat me if I don't pit. So I think at that point he thought he was strong enough to, even though he was going to have to, you know, give up the lead and restart third. He'd rather restart third on equal tires than restart first on old tires. That was, you know, in my opinion, what their mentality was. Yeah, that's the interesting thing about this, right, is that you, said you don't think you were the best car yesterday let's second and third at points at points my i i

think i was a two point three the advantage of having the lead outweighs the advantage of being a bit better of a car and fresh tires yep that's what that at this track boiled down to yeah there's some tracks you know if you take us to a richmond or something like that i mean you put three laps on tires and if you if someone has three lap fresher tires they're going to just blow right by you so quick, it'll rip your numbers off. But it's just some tracks don't have it. Don't wear the tires that much. And it's just that's a concrete surface that once we get going and you see the track

getting black, it is filling in the pores of that concrete. And then that surface is just ultra smooth. And so there's nothing to cheese grade the rubber off the tire. How cool is it to get this fourth win with Gail? Yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, I told you all last week, like, take me back to the roundy rounds tracks. Thank goodness.

I mean, just we needed to get back on it. It was, you know, quite, it's quite humbling going to some of these road courses. And Chicago, we were, that was as competitive as what we were all season on road courses. But I just, this is what I am. I'm a oval guy. It's what my specialty is and it's what I feel like I'm the most confident in. And now we've got a good string of them. We got walking Schlen coming up.

But, I mean, that's going to be 90% qualifying because of the speeds that you run there, it is going to be qualifying, qualifying. That's going to dictate how you finish more and likely at that track. So I don't know, we're going into a great stretch here. The playoffs are more favorable to us. the schedule-wise. I don't know. We'll see how this goes,

but I certainly feel confident that we can get a few more trophies before the end of the year. I think there's also the fifth time you've had the fastest lap this year. Leads the cup. I had, it was interesting that, you know, I knew, I always, you know,

anytime I'm up front, I try to go get it. But we set it when we were on those seven or eight lap tires with, 65 to go, we set the fast lap and then we rebroke it again on the last lap. Is that something that you like to know you have during your race or is that not something you think about until after? I mean, I think about it just simply because I know it's one point if you got an opportunity to try to go get it. But yeah, it's one point. I mean, it doesn't matter

a whole lot. I mean, even with five, okay, yeah. So it's five positions that it's gain me at some point in some race, you know, that's been added to my regular season total. Looking at your career Dover stats, is it really gratifying to see, like, if you put these on a graph, the graph is just continuously going like this? Yeah. What were they early? Okay, well, if I take out the outliers. What's the outliers? Well, in 2006 and 2007, you had a ninth and fourth place finish. Wow. But then in the 10 races following that, you only finished in the top 10 twice.

What are, give me the numbers. Okay. So start, start of your career. 11th, 9th, 3th, 38th, 36th, I can tell you what that 43rd was or 36. That was Kyle Petty. Remember when he got mad at me? Yeah. He got mad at me because I was on the lead lap and he was three laps down running 15 miles an hour off the pace.

Jokes on you. You finish last. How? how does someone start their career racing well and then drop off so much changes back in those days i mean you had trick cars trick all kinds of stuff in 2006 in general jgr was way on top of its game back then they were one of the very first to implement um coal binding the front springs and if you notice that was the year tony won the championship um we had a really very strong group of engineers there that essentially ran the same front springs at every racetrack

and if you notice Tony Stewart's car always his left front was lower than everybody else is on the racetrack so I can't tell you the advantage that Tony Stewart had the entire 2006 season versus the field it was a significant amount of downforce he had over the field so and he won the championship that year so 2006 I won Pocono same thing our cars were just better than others. And so more than likely, we were fast at Dover for that reason. But back to these stats. Now, I'm ESPNning this and, like, creating stats that, like, fit my narrative.

But first 20 starts, you finished in the top 10 about five times. Okay. Now, the second 20, which leads us to today, even more like 15 in the top 10. So, like, something changed there, and you're continuously going like this at Dover. Is that just, like, very gratifying? Yeah. driver. Yeah, because I know how much time I put into it. I certainly know what it took. It just took hours and hours and hours and days and days to change my approach to that racetrack and really

was blessed to have Martin Truex as a teammate. It was always very hard because whenever I looked at Jimmy's success there and I tried to replicate the way he did things. It was very easy for me to cop out and say, well, I don't have the same car he has, so I can't do that. But then when I had Martin Truex as a teammate and he had the same approach as Jimmy, and then he had the same cars as I did, it was like, oh, so our cars can do that. Okay, how can I do that? And so I just was, I had a very fortunate set of circumstances that allowed me to get better at that track. yeah especially now right everyone's car is more or less the same so it's coming down to who i guess who can run the track better part of it yeah i mean the cars are still you got small differences between

them but it the field's closer it's ever been certainly richard childress says we got to get some race cars but isn't he the one that is in charge of getting the race cars he's not in charge of engineering them i think he's challenging his employees to come up with some different answers. He knows that the parts and pieces are the same, but they're obviously what I believe he's saying is that we've got to put them together better. Is that really true though?

Could be. How do you put it better to get like? Well, it could be simulation. It could be tons of things. You know, maybe they're getting different answers in the tire department than what others are. I don't know. I'm not close enough to the situation.

to really know, but I mean, I'm here speculating that he's challenging everyone to, you know, we can't come back with the same thing. This is not working. We're not fast enough. We need to, we need better cars. We need to give our drivers a better opportunity to win races. This reminds me of like a Jerry Jones talking to the media afterwards. No.

You don't think Richard knows that like this is going to like saying over the radio instead of saying it behind close. doors? I don't think so. The RC's always on the radio. Yeah, but he didn't have to say what he said. He said it twice.

He said on each radio. Yeah, but I can tell you this. As a driver, though, you like that. I would like that. If I know that I'm going to a gunfight with a knife, it's like,

I want my owner to have my back saying it ain't our drivers. But I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, though, is he's saying this publicly. He knows that. it's on the radio and it's out there for public. If he couldn't you just say this today to everybody on the team?

I've said the same thing about 2311. I've said it publicly that like they got to get better. I've said that a thousand times. So I don't I don't have any problem with it. I mean, I didn't say I have a problem with it. But, but what do you think is the negative to it?

No, I'm okay with it. What I'm saying that I'm just, it just feels like an owner that knows it like, hey, I'm going to say this publicly to kind of maybe it gets them to go a little more. Well, I mean, it's certainly what it will do is it's going to create a discussion. You know, I'm sure media throughout the week will talk about that. I guess the negative could be is that, you know,

now you're going to put spotlights on all those people that are making those decisions and they can feel pressure from that. You know, if you can't stay in the pressure, get out of the kitchen. but I just think I think the positives outweigh it. I think when you say that, you're having the drivers back, you're letting them know that you're not happy with

what you're bringing for them to compete in. And yeah, maybe there needs to be a discussion publicly. Sometimes that works best. Pressure builds diamonds. Okay.

The sketch people will know that. Chase Elliott? Chase Elliott. Yeah, people are poo-pooing on this guy. Now all of a sudden he's top of the point standings. Isn't that amazing? I mean, not kidding, though. Six weeks ago, he was 10th to 15th every week

and then would finish in the top 10 because of attrition and whatever. And now he's leading. So a lot of it is, Byron's had a very tough couple months. Others, you know, we've had, DNFs. There's been all of us guys at the top. There was like three or three of us, three or four of us, that had major issues. And Chase doesn't have those. So when he does turn it on, and this was, this might have been like a, I don't, I don't want to, like, was it a career day? Like, performance

wise, consistently up front, you lose the lead, you get the lead back. To me, it felt like one of his stronger performances. Now, he's had some at Martinsville where he's been, you know, fantastic and led a ton of laps, won the race. But outside of that, and yes, there's been road courses out, right? Especially pre-next-gen. I just feel as though Chase isn't one of those guys that leads 100, 200 laps in races, right? He'll get you really, really good finishes.

and he'll get you some wins, but it's not dominating. And yes, he finished six yesterday, so the box score is not going to tell the real story and that it was that the nine car was the most dominant car for the first half of the race. And you just don't see that that often. Now, is that because he started on the poll

because of the metrics, right? Was he going to qualify on the poll? Odds would tell you that he wouldn't, because, you know, he's not a poll-winning kind of guy. So I think that that was helpful. We're at a track where Arrow means a lot. Being the leader means a lot. But I just, from my seat, felt like Chase was as strong yesterday as I've seen him.

After Michigan, he was 112 points back. Yeah. I mean, he's made a massive run. And it's not just because of this one week, right? You know, he obviously won Atlanta. But there's, I just feel like they've talked. turn the corner and they are stronger now than what they were. I'll tell you what though. The fans, the Chase Elliott Hendrick fans, they want Allen's head right now. That is so silly though.

I know. I get it. You know, it's always got to be someone's fault why you didn't win that day, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. It's called that's racing. Yes, if he stays out, he controls the race. Um, he controls. He controls. the race, he's in the same position I was, but there's no guarantee you don't get run down. Like, I don't know. I just felt like they made what, you know, Alan said he wishes he had that call back, but, but man, you're the leader. Everyone's always going to do the opposite of what you do. It's a no-win situation for them, and I don't think they deserve any kind of critiquing for that. They're making them what, the right call for the information that they've got. They don't know who's

staying who's coming like they they block out that noise that fan noise you got to block that out because they don't know they don't know i'm not calling for his job but i don't see why fans aren't allowed to be critical of him and the most it's not this isn't a hindsight call in the moment everyone was like that's a bad call you're the head you're the coach or the coordinator and any other sports we would be critical of the coach making a bad play call or whatever i think fans are allowed to be critical of crew chiefs i i think you're right I get it. You have a special place in your heart for being critical on those people making calls.

You do. You do have a right to voice it. However, just understand that you don't know all the factors that the team knows. I've learned this firsthand sitting on the pit box watching the 11 car race when I wasn't in it. that they know far more than what even us drivers in the race car now. And, you know, crew chiefs will tell you, you tell me when the cautions will fall, I'll tell you the perfect strategy.

But you just don't know. And you don't know the variables of who's going to stay, who's going to go, who's taken two, who's taken forward. You know from your teammates, but you don't know about the competition. And so I think they felt as though they were going to. going to restart no worse than third, which that's where they were, and be on the freshest tires. And he felt confident that he was going to be able to overcome that in 70-some laps. And he just, it didn't work out. That's the other problem. I think is they didn't, they weren't

sure of their decision. And so they, they, they, they, yeah, it's 50. Right. They, yeah, I mean, maybe. We, we did. They didn't. But there's always, there's always those scenarios. I think people just like, and we put so much emphasis on winning now in this era that like if you're not winning, you're not having a good season, but consistently. I can't tell you enough. They're trying to win. They're trying to make the right call to win. They're not trying to play it conservatively. They're just thinking that look at the lap times and at that point of the race, no one knew the old tires would fire off faster than new tires. Nobody knew that. You know that now in retrospect. That's why people are now on social media saying, I can't believe you didn't do that. Well, did you think that a car was 70-some laps on his tires were on the fastest lap of the race?

I thought you were screwed. Exactly. So did everyone. So no one knew that until afterwards. And then now you got a gripe, that's not fair. Yeah, yeah. Especially when you were the only crowd, I was like, okay, Denny's on an island here.

He should have pit with. But what I was going to go back to is that after seven lapses, if you look at the lap times all day long, your fastest lap on lap one on new tires right after restart let's just call it a a 2340 after seven laps you're running 2390s so that's a half a second are you okay refiring off and and again it's going to level off a little bit because of temperature but just say all right restarting with someone right beside you that has three or four tents faster like that's you You don't know the outcome.

Also, if tires end up do mattering and Chase is the only guy to stay out and then gets beat on a restart by you or Bell or someone who has fresh out, he's never getting around him. Never getting around. And if you believe you have the best car on the day, you like your chances of starting second or third with fresh rubber. Yep. Anything else on this race?

The in-season tournament matchups. In-season tournament matchups. Tie versus tie next week. Wow. I'm sitting there at the red flag. I'm looking to see where these guys are running and I'm like, holy crap, the race for 25th is on. A barn burner. And I'm like, and I thought for sure, well, certainly there'll be another crash. Like this thing ain't going eight green flag laps. There's going to be a crash between the 10 and the 42 or somebody's going to make a move, like a desperate move and end up wadding up a bunch of cars. It looks. like they didn't but um wow but that tie ty dillon yeah the lucky dog oh it did yeah that's how he got passed wow so yeah tie dillon's just he's got the glass slipper does he wear it one more week i mean he's going to wear it another week but i mean this is this is crazy now you said this is

where the cinderella run ends though i think so yeah i just think that this is a track where absolute car performance matters I think he's at a deficit there qualifying really is going to be a big factor he's going to be at a deficit there what else I mean this just isn't a side-by-side racetrack once we get single filed out

I don't know there's just not going to be a whole lot of passing here it's not that kind of track where you can make something happen on a restart there's nothing to make happen This track is narrow. So I think it ends here. Now, the only way it doesn't end is if he finishes 25th again and Ty Gibbs wrecks, which that's worked for the first three or four rounds. So anything can happen.

It is NASCAR racing, but it's Ty Gibbs is to lose. You don't think that Ty Dillon can come with a speed that matches Ty Gibbs? No, sir. No chance. No, sir. Going to need to hit a lot of threes. Listen, we've been big fans of them on the show here. We're rooting for them.

Boy, that just tells me how easy was my path to the finals if I just get past the first week. You would have gotten knocked out of Sonoma. Sonoma, you dummy. I wouldn't have been up against him at Sonoma. Who'd you been up against? The person he. Alex Bowman? Doesn't matter.

Anybody. I finished 20 at J. fortunately maybe I would have been a little more motivated I don't know I never know I was only

two cars behind him so maybe I would have been the one that cleaned out Alex on the last corner anyway but I don't know it's crazy that we're talking about

these two in the finals but given the schedule that this in season tournament was created around you knew that it was gonna you know it could have been like this Yeah.

Travis was surprised that you wore a tie on Saturday. Well, kind of wore a tie. I tried to be proper. And then Tyler Overstreet says, well, I specifically said in my email to you that you don't need to wear a tie. And I says, well, that just tells you I don't read your emails. So, but I realized pretty quickly that I'm definitely, I'm definitely fatter than I was before because I was getting choked out anyway by it. Like my shirt, when I tighten that top button, I mean, I was like that Duluth trading, you know, commercial where it's like the waistband that feels like it's, you know, vice grips on you. That's what my shirt was. I was so happy to peel that tie off.

Travis, I'd be surprised too, because I tell all my friends this is that when I started working with Denny, any event they had to go to, you know, something where you think you'd need to dress nice for. I feel like I always accidentally overdressed. I'd show up in like a tie and a jacket and then Denny's like the late show a couple years ago. Everyone shows up in a suit and then you're out there in a hoodie. Well, he's the talent. I know he can do what he wants. But I just also would be surprised. For the record, I wouldn't be wearing a tie either.

Like when I go to weddings, I don't wear ties. No one cares. I was just shocked that you had one on. Also, somebody said that it must have been a clip on. absolutely not give me a break no way i'm like he's not that bad no uh that you know that fun that was fun doing the c w there adam is makes it so freaking easy

and you realize pretty quickly how talented they are i mean i got asked post media or post race was an advantage to go up there in the booth and watch the race and i says truthfully i'd be able to see a hell a lot more if I was sitting in my motor home because of all the things that are going on up there, right? It's you got someone in your ear saying, hey, we're going to this. Hey, camera, we're going to that.

Like, you hear all these things and all you're trying to do is concentrate on, okay, what do the people see? Let's talk about what the people are seeing. And in the bus, it's like, I don't, I'm not distracted with all the other stuff. And so I would say it's not an advantage at all to go up there and do the booth. Now, yes, you can see the. track from up above, but I was looking outside 25% of the time because you definitely can get caught and talking about something that's not on the TV.

Right, right, right. You want to be talking about what the camera is showing. And so even though you might be compelled by a battle going on, the one thing that you can't do is that look out there, try to find a battle, try to see something, and then get the producer's attention to say, hey, tune into this and then you talk about it. But it was good. I thought, I thought I did okay, not great. What makes you, why don't you think you did great? I thought I could have done a better job of like explaining the driving side of things where I was just more very vague on analysis, just talking about drivers, not driving. Does that make any sense?

sense. So I just, I feel like my role in the booth would be talking about what the drivers need to be looking for, how they need to be setting up passes, things like that, you know, being a little more technical in that aspect. I think that's kind of my lane. It feels like the cool thing is that that Xfinity booth has good chemistry together. And no matter who you bring in, they can kind of bring that person in seamlessly. uh yeah i mean certainly yeah they've got they got great on-air talent that makes things extremely easy

and certainly you know i've got a good rapport with jamie and kind of know you know we we would kind of give hand signals of like you know when you want to say something you kind of just that way they know okay wrap up what you're saying and i'm i'll take it from here and same thing from him you i'll be going he'll raise his hand and be like okay he's got something he wants to add to that Do you want to do it again? Yeah, I would do it again. I would. Is there a track that, like, does it matter where the track is?

Like, do you want to do it at a track that you know more about? No, it doesn't matter, no. Next week, well, hold on, on the track, though, Connor Zilch gets another win. Yeah. What do you make of his oval racing? I mean, I said it on the broadcast, but those who didn't tune in, I, it might be the most impressive rookie I've seen in decades.

what he's doing on ovals considering the amount of experience he has in the age that he is can't say that I've seen anything more impressive I truthfully cannot so I don't know what do you want you know he's he's gonna he's already really good and he's going to be great so yeah did he had the best car I don't know that that maybe maybe not i thought the 19 was a little better in the long run obviously but he was a top two or three car and so he just made it happen and and again for just not coming to these racetracks before and performing like this is just quite impressive very very impressive what do you think his expectations will be next season when he gets to cup oh i don't even know how to predict

it now. I mean, he's running better than Shane was on Oval's. Now, Shane was with Collick. He's with JRM. J.R.M is definitely the class of the field with their cars and their performance. So, and then you'll be going to track house that is, you know, not the top of performance in Cup and the competition is harder. So you got to, you got to be somewhat realistic. I mean, if I had to just throw out a number his first season, I don't know, does he win a road course? Maybe. I mean, let's just say, where will he be in points? Yeah, SVG is 26th right now. Yeah, take the wins, like the win that automatically puts you in the top 16 of points. Forget all that. Like, where are you going to be at this point of the season

in points next year? He'll be 24th. So is that a success? We'll mark that down one year from now. He'll be 20. Yeah, I think it's a success. Rookie season? Going into way, way tougher competitions on these ovals. Slightly lesser equipment.

Yeah, that puts him ahead of where SVG is. Post three wins, by the way. SVG is. The SVG comparison is not fair, though. Well, that's what it is, though. I know, but that's not a fair case. How is it not fair? Why?

Because SVG was put in the car to win roadcourses. I don't think they, track house cared what he did on ovals for the most part like he had no oval experience Connor doesn't have that much I know less I feel like he's half his age

I feel like it's different it's easier to teach a 18 year old to do something Mark it down 36 year old He's 24th they're teaching him but you don't think Justin Marks if they put him in the track house car like we think is is putting him in there because he thinks he can win a road course No I think he's putting him in there because he's a talented driver for

But you're putting him in this so soon for a road course win though, right? He thinks that, no, I don't think he's putting him in there to get a win at a recourse at all. I disagree a little bit. I'm a little with Travis on this. I think he thinks he'll, he's got two guys that surely will get him into the playoffs via road course wins immediately. And then hopes that they will get better on ovals, although he's probably way more optimistic about Conner's oval prowess. now versus SVGs. Yes, definitely.

And I think he's comparing them to whoever he'll replace. Can I get the same, if not better performance? 24th is reasonable. I mean, the field is stout these days. Next weekend, I'm headed to the brickyard, qualifying at 2.35 p.m. on True TV, and then the race is Sunday at 2 p.m. on T&T. And then you can watch, obviously, every week with the HBO Max in-car cameras.

The one race he wants to get. Yeah. I do. We'll see what happens. But, man, I think so much of it's going to be qualifying and strategy. Those two things. What tracks the best comparison for this? None.

Pocono. But Pocono, you can pass much easier than you can't hear it, Indy. But as far as car setup. Like, should fans be confident going into this race that you're going to have a race-winning car? I'm going to be... Oh, I'll have a race-winning car. Yeah, yeah. I'm confident of that.

It's just, does the circumstances work out? I blew a right front tire six hours ago leading this race in 2020, so you just never know what can happen. You've got to make it all the way. I got a review here from Brandob 6. A huge fan of yours, Denny, and the whole actions crew. Each episode gets me through my Monday's... work. I've been in three races this year, including your Michigan win. I will be there next week in Indy hoping for another. All in. Let's go. Appreciate that review.

Yeah, this is this is one we went bad. I tell you what, if we hold, if we have the brickyard trophy sitting here one week from now, I might just retire. I might just call it at 59. That's not true. That 59 bull shit. That's not true. I'm just talking shit. Last night he said 70s on the table. Austin facetiously facetiously 70

Austin thinks he's going to get to Dale senior You're going to get to 62 this year If I can If I can stay at this level For two to three more years I mean yes 70s in play but I mean you're

You're going to have to have stuff really work out It's going to be hard It's every year it's going to get harder Will it though? For you, for you personally, like your ability, because the way I think about is, like, I don't know if the competition, competition is obviously going to get better. William Byron is going to get better.

Kyle Larson, the guys are all going to get incrementally better. But it's like, nothing's changing all that much, you know? So it's like, can you keep up your level of performance? Let's get to 60 and then I'll figure out if we can get to 70. Like, it matters when you get to 60. You get to 60 this year, I think 70's on the 10. Well, if you don't get to 60 this year, something really went wrong in these next 15 weeks. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I've got you. I love the confidence, boys. I've got you penn for three more wins this year. It's, I'm not saying it's not. Let's do it, though.

What are we waiting on? We're wasting time here. See you next week.