Actions Detrimental with Denny Hamlin - We're Gonna Get White Hot

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Denny Hamlin talks about going from his NASCAR appeal to his father/daughter dance last week, wearing the same suit (2:48). Golfing at Augusta National Golf Club (5:50). Did the team owners really boycott a meeting (9:14) ? Kaulig is still fighting their penalty (18:04). Racing on Easter Sunday, Larson vs Preece and the future of a dirt race at Bristol (24:50. Plus, #DearDenny (48:38). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Oh, boy, oh boy. Gosh, shake it off. Let's go. Action, touch metal. Let's go. Episode 10. Hi, I'm Dinan Hamlin, driver the number 11.

Toyota for Joe Gibbs Racing and co-owner for the number 45 and number 23, 2311 team for Tyler Reddick and Boba Wallace. One of those face slap mornings for me again where, like, I didn't send an alarm. I'm down. I woke up exactly when I was supposed to be down here in the studio. So you're, I'm, let's see,

fresh out of bed, 18 minutes ago. Yeah, well, I was running late today too. I guess first we got to back up. I'm Jared Allen, Denny Hamlin,

social media guy, Purple Fest guy. I was running late this morning, too, got back, I drove to Bristol this weekend, got back at 1.30. And when I left my house at like 905,

the ETA was 9. I was 931. I was like, good thing I'm working with Denny, because we say we're going to record this at 9.30. There's no chance we start before 10. Yeah. 10.2.

I don't know why. I'm just, I need to do better. But like even on Zooms, I am a, if it's at 9, I'm logging on at 902 to 903. I think I just take for granted that like, well, the time to open your computer, set it up, turn it on, log in. I lose those few minutes. and I just don't, you know, I'm bad. I've got to get better for sure. Have you ever been in like, you log on or you open your computer like say

957, your meetings at 10 and your computer's dead? And you know how MacBooks take a good 5 to 10 minutes to reboot? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then you're on your phone trying to hold this thing steady. Yeah.

It was a, obviously we had an emergency episode last Friday or Thursday night. regarding my penalties being upheld. And if you kind of don't know what the appeals process is like, I would encourage everyone to go back one episode and check that out. We kind of gave you behind the curtain visualization of what that whole process was. Thank everyone for Dirty Moe, Mike Davis and Tiff and everyone who really kind of rallied the troops and got everyone together really quick for us to do that. There's been many times, so I've told, you know, Mike, I was like, man, really need a Thursday episode.

Something that kind of keep up with what's going on in the middle of week. That way, it's not old news by the time we get to Monday. But, yeah, thanks for them for that. And, yeah, moving on. So I had, well, after my appeal, I went to my father-daughter dance. And so I still had my same suit on, the same dirty old L suit from the appeal. and the father-daughter dance it's you know if you go you really just got to survive the moments of getting your kids ready and then the transportation there because once they're there

they're gone and you're just like hanging out with the other dads talking like you know hey how's your golf game you know what's going on and uh McMurray you know McMurray's there biffel's there uh Ray Everingham's there and so you know we talk racing mostly right yeah what was the topic conversation that night. Oh, man. Yeah. I just, you know, I had just filmed here in the studio. So I just kind of told them about my appeal, how it went and everything. And yeah, they were just like, oh my gosh. Wow. That's, that's interesting. So yeah, I mean, it's interesting that, you know, Ray Evernham, a guy that I grew up kind of watching Jeff Gordon crew chief, like we're at the same father, dar dance. Our kids are about the same age.

so cool but um but it was fun luckily for me uh the rain came um about an hour before it ended so essentially the dance ended at an hour early um because it goes into the night yeah it goes into the outside yeah it was that at chickadee farms in in morseville oh yeah so great venue but man they uh they put us on the spot we got to do some dance and we do line dancing do some uh some different uh musical chairs i thought about Molly, poor Molly got, the kid behind her had cotton candy in her hand and then ended up the whole cotton candy roll

in Molly's hair as she's doing it. As she's doing the musical chairs. So we ran her in the bathroom, washed it out, she was good. But it was muddy. They had mud all over the dresses from falling down and stuff. It was just, uh,

how's the dancing for you? Because I've only seen you dance a couple of times in my life. And it's always the thongs. I'm so much. No, that's what I. That's my karaoke song. I know, but there's a little, a little moving. Jared's shaking and moving right now.

Guys, he's getting after it. No, I don't, I don't dance, nor do I dance good unless I'm by myself and I feel free to let my body go. Let my hips go. Let my shoulders go. I don't feel that free unless I'm by myself. But it was good. I mean, I saw the other dads getting into it, so it made it a little bit easier for me to do it. On your outfit, though, real quick, before we move on from this, I should have captioned Instagram when you have a court case at 1 p.m.

and a daddy daughter dance at 6. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. Just wear the same outfit. Yeah. It was, you know, Good Week Masters was this week. John Rom went to second major, I believe.

Brooks, man, I mean, holy cow, how happy is the PGA tour that Brooks didn't win? But old Phil, just father time, man, he's just, he played great on that last day, shot at 65, and I think he's tied for second. But man, it's, the master's so great. From what I hear from, I've never played Augusta, I would love to play Augusta. But from what I hear from the people that have played, they said, oh, the golf course is amazing. but the experience is terrible. It's so stuffy. Like it's just you can't do this.

You can't do that. Which is the total opposite of Michael Jordan's course where it's like, okay, you have, I said, well, what's your phone policy? I remember the first time I went to Jordan's course. I said, what's your phone policy? Well, when you get a call, you pick it up and you answer it. And I says, all right, what's your hat policy? Because most, you know, I wouldn't say most, but some clubhouses got a lot of history. no hats in the clubhouse.

It says, well, you can wear your hat like this. You can wear it like this. You can wear it like this. And they're like, let me just sum this up for you. There are no rules. We have no rules. Our carts, the golf carts there run about 35 to 40 miles an hour. You can get air on every hole, like, drive into the green.

It's fantastic. There are no rules. You drive right up to the green. There is no cart pass. If you cannot play around in about three hours, then you are the slowest, player in history of golf. And they'll let you play in t-shirt, whatever.

I mean, it doesn't, you know, jeans, no, obviously. But I think everyone just respects that you don't wear jeans on the golf course. And, you know, if you want to play a 10-sum, a 12-some, whatever, as long as you don't hold up Michael's group, when they get behind you and that brigade is coming, you got to let them go. Because they're looking to get in 36 holes in six hours. And if you hold that up, hold them up, then we got to. got a problem. So it is from what I hear it's the total opposite of Michael Jordan's course,

which I think I would take that over Augusta any day, right? Like I'm not a good enough golfer to really appreciate how challenging Augusta is or whatever, right? Like I'm going to shoot, you know, I'm a five handicap who's, you know, probably would go to Augusta shoot 105, 110. I don't want to do that. I'd rather go to the. I'd rather go to the, you know, I'm a five, the grove down in Florida and wear my t-shirt my hat backwards and play with 10 of my friends. Doesn't that sound funner? It does. I would just, I would like to see Augusta just to confirm that what it looks like on TV is what it looks like in person. Yeah, I heard it does. It's just way more hills. It just, undulation is huge that the TV doesn't show. There's a few camera angles

or you'll see where it's like, whoa, look how tiered that green is. But yeah, it looks fun. It is, you know, the, it's the Daytona 500 of golf. Yep. Right? Yeah. Daytona 500 golf. So that was cool. Some look players played pretty well during that tournament.

And then, you know, this week we also had, I saw this, you know, printed out that the owner's boycotted Wednesday's meeting. That's not, that word probably shouldn't have been used. basically each team made their own decision not to go. We talked about it the night before. So we hold owners meetings the day before we have our meeting with NASCAR to kind of group together our thoughts and kind of talk about the things that NASCAR is listed as they're such a subject. Subjects that we're going to speak upon for the meeting. So we kind of regroup and for us it's also a time where the, TNC, which is also known as the negotiating committee, which is made up of Dave Alpern from Joe Gibbs

Racing, Curtis Polk from 2311 racing. You have Steve Newmark from RFK, and you have Jeff Gordon from Hendrick Motorsports. So there have been the main four that have been speaking with O'Donnell and Steve Phelps and Scott Prime and all these NASCAR executives who, who have been heading up the negotiations from the NASCAR side. So they kind of give us an update. And, you know, I feel like probably two, three episodes ago, I was like, you know, hey, I feel pretty optimistic about where we're heading, where we're going.

And then, you know, come to find out, it sounds like, you know, from the debrief I got from them was that we're not, we're not, I don't even know if there was a deal. I think that, you know, there was kind of a deal. and then maybe they thought we were going to get close, and they pulled the rug out a little bit and says, well, it's contingent upon these things that are not realistic. So that was certainly disappointing for sure

to hear from the negotiating committee that we're not getting closer, if anything, we are certainly further apart than we were just a few months ago. And as the team owners, we feel like time is running out. You know, our charters, I believe, are, so the charters are up at the end of this year, I believe. So it is not directly linked. The charter agreement is not directly linked to the TV deal. So they can be done at different times. And what we could be in a situation of it, the reason I think that we are pushing to be, get this done quicker, is that we don't want to,

the further NASCAR pushes us back to our timeline of our charters the less time you have to less time we have to get a deal done right or if we don't get a deal done then we could be racing all next year with lame duck charters that you know we're obligated to race but we're we would lose them the following year so it's just I don't know all the language but I know the negotiating committee does and they have a reason for having the time line that they have. I trust in them. They've been doing a great job for us. But ultimately, I think that they feel like they've gone as far as they can go with the group that they've met with. And ultimately, if Jim and or Lisa, you have pushed back on the things, the necessities for us,

which is permanent charters, they want to hear directly from them why. And if they, you know, want to give us an explanation, that's totally okay. but they need to hear from us directly why it is important for us to have permanent charters. So was this boycott for, don't say that word, or less, was it a message to NASCAR? Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I mean, you're saying don't use that word though, but you all skipped the meeting, right? Yes, yeah, but everyone had the choice to attend it if they wanted to. So when we left the call, we just said, we didn't say, hey, we're not doing it. No one else do it.

We just said, we deem that this is not going to be productive. And, you know, let's just, you know, we have to have an action item list of things that we need to do in a certain amount of time and answers we need to have from NASCAR in a certain amount of time. And this meeting is just going to deter us from those timelines. So every owner came to that conclusion individually? Mm-hmm. So sounds like y'all are on the same page. yeah we have been on the same page that's that's what's so interesting is you've got 36 teams and they all feel aligned on the same thing and we just can't get you know you know NASCAR family to

to to to give us a good reason why we shouldn't get permanent charters and those who don't know the reason permanent charters are important to me denny hamlin is i've spent tens of millions of dollars on charters and to tell me that i can just get it taken away listen As we know, NASCAR is not afraid to try to put their thumb on me, right? And taking my charter, that's not a good thing for anyone. All these franchises are worth. Nothing. If the charters in which what you have to have to race, if you don't have it permanently.

No one from the outside will ever invest in this sport unless it's permanent. Because, you know, if you have, let's just say Mark Kemp. Cuban wanted to invest in NASCAR. He would say, literally, he would say this. So let me get this straight. I got to spend tens of millions on a franchise that can be taken away from me at any moment. Well, that's just stupid. I'm out. It like it's a non-starter. So again, as the teams, we realize the chances of us making money year to year is very slim. So the only way NASCAR can give us some value back for all this time and what we're doing is to at least give us some franchise value that cost them nothing to say yes your permits your charters are permanent it costs them

zero point zero dollars so last last thing on this topic is that if you if you skip last week's meeting doesn't that just push uh your negotiations down the road a week like aren't you going to come back to this how often no because No, because there was not going to be any talk about, we weren't going to negotiate with all 36 charters there. This was just a normal quarterly update of, hey, here's our ratings, here's how many tickets we're selling, and here's the positive this, here's the positive that.

It's just more of a little more of a song and dance. I know that Curtis, when he first started attending some of these team owner meetings, He's like, what do we really talk about of substance? Like, this is just kind of a, you know, a lecturing of how well we're doing and we're working collectively with you guys on X, Y, and Z. Yeah, I get it. They certainly, you know, in the other sports, what they're doing when they have owner meetings with the league, it's talking about how are they going to grow revenue together, how can they work better together,

how can they sell sponsorships together, what collectively, rules do they feel like that they should change to grow the sport or make it better like there's a lot of things that they're doing but you know a lot of a lot of kind of the issues we have like for instance we had a one of those team owner quarterly meetings i think it was it was last year and then the next day they announced the Garage 56 project. And it was like, did you not think it was important while all the owners were in the room yesterday to tell us about this huge news that you're partnering with one of the race teams to do this program?

Like, that is just lack of transparency and lack of respect for the people that put on your show for you every week. That was just the absolute head scratcher that it, again, it made so many times. teams mad so many manufacturers mad that it just it was just bad it was just bad you just can't that's important information and that needs to be shared but you know they wanted to keep it hidden until it actually came out which i mean man it's uh yeah we just need to be a little more productive when it comes to that gotcha colleague appeals we had that last week as well which same penalty as Hendrick Motorsports more or less

not the same result from what we know from what we know I mean you know what we don't know is like who supplied the louvers to who right I mean there's so many unknowns and I think that you know there's certainly not a whole lot of

transparency from this case hopefully going forward and it looks like NASCAR made some rules adjustments during last week that will maybe create more transparency with parts and pieces and maybe it would create more transparency from the panel. I think the panel needs to be more transparent as much as anyone. On why they make decisions.

I mean, when they come to mind and literally you have the administrator read off in a matter of 10 seconds what the verdict was. So quickly, I thought she was just reading off, you know, the whole 30-minute dog and pony show of today, blah, blah, blah, it's this, it's that, you know. And then everyone starts standing up and you're like, I don't even understand what happened. What was the verdict and why was the verdict? And it was just, you need more transparency, especially, you know, I think that you need transparency because it's proving now that the panel is being as inconsistent as anyone and the ruling they are

ruling in favor of one organization differently than they're ruling for others i mean this we can make assumptions but let's just use facts they're they're ruling in a in a way that simply is favoring one group over the rest of the field and we don't know why no one knows why no explanation no nothing. So we need to have more answers and I think that hopefully the new rules will address that. Colleague announced that they're going to make a second appeal, so the final appeal. Do you think after you broke down on last week's episode, and again, for people who haven't listened to that, you should go check that out before getting to this next question. You said that on the first appeal, it is NASCAR's responsibility to prove why the appealing organization,

or whoever is in the wrong, right? Yes, it's up to NASCAR to prove guilt. In the first appeal. In the first appeal. In the second appeal, it's reversed. It's the defendant must show proof of innocence. So do you think a colleague, or in this case, one of these appeals, the setup for the appeal favors one side or the other?

So now that colleague has to prove innocence, right? It will be very hard. It'll be very difficult. Yeah. So it doesn't, one appeal setup doesn't matter, really. Yeah, I mean, I think that the difference is the final panel is just one guy, right? Bill Molls from Langley Speedway. But, I mean, hey, it has been proven, again, that, you know, I know I talk to Chris Rice.

He says he knows how Hendrick presented their case. He presented very similarly. it's again you just had three different people right and um i thought it was interesting that i did talk to justin haley on the gritty said yeah they took all 30 minutes to deliberate for their decision and mine took five minutes i went to the bathroom they were done and it just again makes me scratch my head considering where we were with our case one thing i thought about it too when it comes to the appeals thing no one is held accountable for untrue statements.

You know, in the court, when you say something that may be untrue, the plaintiff or the defendant can say, I object. That's not true based on this, right? The other side can just say whatever they want, and you can't interrupt them. Do you have a, is there a moderator in there? There is, but there's no transcript. There's no recording that this actually happened.

Your eyes got big on that. It just disappears into thin air. I can't go back and say, well, hold on. They said this. That's untrue. I cannot go. When they're saying it, there were many statements that I were flat out untrue,

but I could not stop them. You could just say whatever you want, and the panel has to listen to you, and the other side cannot object. So it's just up for the panel to decipher what's true. What's real? What's not, right? So you better have facts to refute everything. But the problem is you only get one time to rebuttal. And the first, so as a defendant, the first time, I had one chance to rebuttal. They rebuttal twice. But there were no facts. It was all just, they just kept playing one video over and over, which is my podcast. They were big fans, by the way.

Evidently, they love listening to the podcast. Do you, this colleague, they have to dig deeper for more evidence in the second appeal? Are you just going back in with the same argument hoping that this new guy hears you out better than the last three did? I think that theirs will probably be, you just hope for a different result from a different panelist, yeah. But, yeah, the only other difference in the last one colleague will get the last word versus NASCAR. Well, if I learned anything in my persuasion class in college is that the last word is always the most persuasive. It's the last word that the panel, whoever you're trying to persuade remembers. Yeah, I think where I screwed up to is I presented way too many facts and way too much

evidence early. Yeah. And my thing went three hours in some minutes. And it was like, I wish I would have saved that for the end to be like, here you go. Here's the facts, people. You should ask me what I learned in college. Yeah. Well, anywho, that wraps up that.

Let's talk some dirt racing. Let's go. How did you feel about it? Well, I felt like a monkey, a football person. But I, you know, there was definitely, you know, before the race even started, you had a lot of people, drivers,

just like, you know, even Kyle Larson was one who was saying, you know, this, we shouldn't be on dirt. And, you know, he he was definitely against it uh i bet you after the race he felt very similar to that but you know i think when i read when i kind of looked at a lot of the driver's comments in the media um pre race it was um i think they were as frustrated about racing on easter as they are about the dirt like i don't know that they have a personal vendetta with the dirt i think it's just racing on Easter. And when we had our driver's meeting, one of the, I think it was the track

president, was like, happy Easter, everyone. And it was dead silent. No one said anything. It was like, uh, read the room. Yeah. Read the room for sure, right? Um, it's just we have such a tough schedule making our industry go out there and running the dirt. And Easter is just, it's tough. It's really tough. I understand the reasons for it, but I don't agree with it. I thought the racing, it depends on who you listen to. If you listen to the top five finishers, Austin Dillon gets a great finish. Oh, this is great.

This is just the greatest thing ever. Well, I mean, that's like a great, great run for Austin Dillon. So, of course, he's going to say that, right? And then you've got, you know, I listened to the last, you know, 100 laps or so. you know tv was doing a good job of pumping it up for how great the racing was and everything like there was no lead changes whoever led lap one led the entire stage of each stage i'm looking and i think that there was one lead change under green with cow bush but i think it's because he stayed out and then reddick took the lead from him after five last last

and led the rest of the stage. The 20 car stayed out. Let every lap after. I don't know. We need to figure out what we're going to define as good racing, but leading every lap, the leader leading every lap, I don't know, is great racing.

I thought the track, I mean, in one and two, it was kind of, it was slick all over, but then, you know, I hear Davenport's quotes after the race and if you look at his main quote, I think it's taken a little out of context. He was more positive than that. He was. His quote, do you have that?

His full quote, give me a second. Talk about more. Well, I'll say this. He basically said that his main quote was that, you know, this isn't really a race. This is a show. And I dug into that a little bit

before we came down here today. And he was actually pretty positive about it. He's like, hey, the racetrack I thought was great. It's got big holes in it. it and that creates character and it makes you have to move around them. And I was like, oh, really? Like, that's what they want is huge holes in the middle of the racetrack and turns three and four. He would know because he's a dirt expert.

But yeah, our cars, they just react differently in the dirt than they do, than actual dirt cars that have dirt suspension. So, you know, I've been doing this for three years now on the dirt. we had much better success the first year. I mean, you just don't have tires that lose much grip. The track loses a significant amount of grip as it slickens off. As you saw it started getting kind of dried off and dusty all the way from the top to the bottom. Yeah, the race, I mean, maybe could have had a spectacular finish, but there was crashes all over.

And one thing I definitely learned when I watched the race back, if the wreck was not on TV, they were not going to throw a caution. So back there where I was running, there was, I mean, people, there were so many crashes that y'all did not see unless you were there in person

because TV didn't show it because they were showing a battle for third or fourth or something like that. There was cars wrecking all over the place. No caution. I mean, there's all over the racetrack, no caution. I think, they just, again,

they just give up and say, this race is taken too long, we're not throwing any more caution. But it just creates inconsistencies, right? Like, we're starting to officiate this thing based off of how you feel versus what's a caution, what's not, right? And they waited to the last minute as they could

because Ross was sitting on the middle of track and three and four, which I applaud that. But there was many where, there was cars wrecked. They were wrecked. And no caution, we just kept on going.

So that level of inconsistency, you know, that's not, you know, if you don't want the race to be long, then don't have it so many laps because we're going to have, we're going to spend out quite a bit and throw every caution certainly more consistently. We don't want to have to do it based off of your time window. I'm paraphrasing Jonathan Davenport here, but he said, I enjoyed it. Just experience the opportunity and enjoyed the experience. I'd like to come back. and on that not real dirt racing

he had just said that this is more of a show than a real dirt race because these cars are just not built to race on dirt. Yeah, yeah, certainly, yeah, they're not built to be as sideways for sure. They don't have the bite off the corner

that what dirt cars have. So it is, it's different. Listen, is there a place for us to have a dirt race somewhere? Sure. Sure. Should it be Bristol? Probably not. You know, I don't know of another, I don't have a good choice I'm going to bring to the table today.

But I just think that the Bristol concrete track is too good to cover up with dirt. I think that there's other options out there if we're looking to go to new venues that we should explore versus covering up one of our best short tracks. So does it change though going to a proper dirt track? I don't know. If the cars aren't built for it, what does it matter what the surface is? it's a good question. I don't know the answer to that. I don't have a good answer for it.

I just feel like you're struggling to figure out your super speedway package. You know, you're trying to make the short track racing, exciting, all this, right? Why add dirt tracks to the schedule? If you haven't got A, B, and C figured out, why are we, why add D? We've gotten into novelty racing. You know what I figured out? I was thinking about on the way, and I was looking at the schedule. I'm like, what's after this?

God, what after it? Do we have a race with jumps and fire and stuff we've got to run through in the next race? And I'm like, man, normal ovals is now maybe the novelty. Maybe this is just the new NASCAR where we go and we just kind of do all these things that we think that the fans want, but they, I don't know that they really want them. You know, maybe for the first year. But after the, you know, again, novelties are not as fun year two, year three, year, whatever, right? be who we are. We are oval, short track, mid-track, big track racing. That's what we are. That's who we've always been. And I think it just loses its luster when we start doing this. And I was looking at the schedule because I'm like, God, can we please get to some real race tracks?

Tracks where like it's not so much by chance, right? I mean, I drew the eighth pill for the heat. And it's like, you know, one heat was stacked more than others. And it's just like, that's, like, that's, That's unlucky. And then you get marred in the back and you can't go anywhere. So it's just, it's just really frustrating. I'm going to mark it down now. Bookmark it now, listeners. The 11 car goes on a run starting now. Start in Martin's though.

Right now. Not next week, not the week after, right now. The next six weeks, 11 cars are going to get hot. Hot. Booking that, what's today's date? April 10th. Okay. Come back to this in six weeks.

Yep. Um, so you also had, you know, kind of a tiff between Larson and Priest's. I watched that back. I listened to that quite a bit. Um, this is, this is what we're going to get. I mean, now you got the media in Priest's face after trying to get him to admit that he knocked out Larson. Well, this is the whole, you know, if drivers could speak freely, they would

speak freely, but they can't. I mean, I can't imagine the drivers from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s back in the day being muzzled with their comments and not being able to say, yeah, he ran me in the fence. I got him back. Can't do it now, evidently. The precedence is set. And it's up to NASCAR to be consistent. And I want them to be consistent because I told them I'm tired of being the example that you all set. Like if you're going to set an example, okay, that's an example. Now you have to, if this is the way you want it, you don't want drivers making contact intentionally. That rule does not exist by the way. Then you have to judge so. Every wreck now should be investigated for race manipulation. Every rate, every wreck or incident or contact should be investigated as wrecking

or spinning another vehicle because they set that precedent and that's what they want. But surely deep down, that's not what you want, right? You want Ryan Priest to get out of the car and say, yeah, I wrecked him on purpose. He, you know, I wasn't clear off the, or he wasn't clear off the corner. He put me in the wall. I repaid the favor because that's obviously what happens, right? It's frustrating as a fan when we have to watch him in the media. tiptoe around it's like just what does it matter just say you wrecked them on purpose he should be allowed to say just wrecked them on purpose because that's what happened it didn't change the outcome of the race it's just it is what it is so like you want consistency right but you're speaking yeah but you're speaking logically you're speaking logically but the decision wasn't logic it was I I don't know if there's an insurance issue that NASCAR has where they can't have drivers openly admitting that they're crashing others or retaliating because it's an insurance problem, you know, maybe that's it. If that's it, then just tell us that and we'll start to understand a little bit more,

but it just looks like they're hugely inconsistent. And I just, again, this was in my closing argument. What's detrimental to our sport is not what I say on my podcast. It's telling these drivers they can't show their personality when a microphone's in front of their face and they can't show their personality on the racetrack for fear of penalization. That is detrimental. But that is the path that they want us to go down. Do you have a side on this incident between Preyson Larson?

I mean, I watched it, and it looks like Kyle Larson. This is what he does. Kyle is one of my best friends, but at this point, I have to call Kyle out a little bit. Kyle is one of those drivers that puts you in a spot where you have to lift. Raise your hand if this sounds familiar. He's done it to me a few times on a road course. He'll get tired of me contesting my position,

so he'll just run me off into the grass. He'll just say, all right, well, you either can lift or you're going through the grass over there. And I think that he wanted to get clear of priests, so he just gassed it up and said, all right, well, I'm coming up, and you can lift or get... go into the fence priest didn't lift it got drove into the fence so of course priest is pissed and so

later on in the race he ran he crowded larsen up up the track look very familiar look very very familiar to phoenix but that's what racing is i'm not saying either one i'm deserved to be penalized but it depends are we going to use the precedent or not Larson's in the wrong here. I just priest stood his ground. He wasn't going to take getting crowded, wasn't going to take being put to a decision of lift or be put in the fence. And so when he got back to Larson,

he gave him the business a little bit. And Larson's mad because he's like, well, hey, it was an hour and a half ago. Can't you just stop being a kid and get over it? Larson wouldn't get over it. I've raced with Larson. He holds crudges when he gets back to you. There's no question. So I think Larson came into this weekend with not a very good attitude.

We saw it in his pre-race comments. Again, I'm really good friends with a guy, but each person has to be called out individually. This was not Ryan Priest's fault. then you can argue all you want but then Kyle drove right down the racetrack on the backstretch and tried to door the shit out of the 41 and ended up wrecking himself in the process so I love Tony Stewart on the TV he was like well the straightaway is getting really slick now and I'm like God bless you Tony I love that you stick up for all drivers like it's it's actually

against his team car but like Tony is straight unbiased but he's biased to the drivers and sense that he's going to give all the drivers the benefit of the doubt. So that's what I love about Tony. But he was trying to give Kyle out there to not call him out on driving down the straightaway and trying to wreck the 41 and wrecking himself in the process. Is there a strategy in this race? You know, walk by your pit box. You've got six or seven sets of tires laying there and you use, what, one or two?

Yeah, I think I heard that Kyle Arson's team chose not to change. tires during the break. If you weren't going to change tires, I don't know why you gave up the track. Well, I guess he needed fuel. Well, not really. I'm not sure. Yes, I think back when the track was a little bit more rubbered in the very first year, the right rear tire would get bald. Like it would wear the tire out. The last two years, yeah, there's been no tire wear whatsoever. So again, it's a dirt track. There's usually not a ton of tireway. generally speaking, but as heavy as our cars are, you would think it would. But I think these tires are so hard that they don't.

And so to me, that's what makes passing a little bit harder. And when I was looking through data before the race, kind of trying to give my team an idea of what I need to do to go faster or better, I'm like, I'm running the same speed as the leaders that just, I'm back here, 20 cars further back, and I can't go anywhere because, you know, because of the racetrack. So we're all running close to the same speed. It's just, it's track position racing. Which comes down to qualifying well. Well, draw.

Okay, you got to draw well first. So you want to draw fifth, you know, fourth, fifth, six. You want to pass as many as you can in the very first corner of your heat race. And then you're done. Just live it out from there. Hopefully you get a good starting spot. And then you're in pretty good shape as long as you don't make a mistake on Sunday. And that's how you pass cars.

that's it that that yeah that's how you do it well you had you were in a incident early on in the race i was in law in the incident so yes you're in one in the beginning of the race yeah that's true you're in one of the later in the race yeah yeah yeah what i'm getting at is you eventually moved up to ninth 10th at one of the restarts you would gain some track position i was seventh because we we stayed out we stayed out right the end of stage two because we were mired in 20 seconds and her 24th could not go anywhere. So we stayed out, and we were the last car that stayed out. So I was seventh.

And by then, I had had so many incidents in my car was tore all to hell that there's no telling what was wrong with it. I mean, it drove totally different at the end of the race than it did, even at the midpoint. And I just think that I'd hit so many things with the tires and wheels, and I had no front in left that my car was limited on speed, and I suck. Okay. You're trying to give me a reason of why I finished 20? Yeah, I was just, I was curious.

You had that you gained that track position and then started dropping spots. Okay, I think we summed it up. I suck. Toyota did win the race, though. Christopher Bell went to victory lane. Fox was very happy with this because he's a guy with dirt experience. So it kind of validated the dirt race in a sense. Like a dirt guy won the dirt race.

Yeah. yeah it's uh and i saw devonport speaking about this as well and his interview he was like you know well when the tracks slicks off like this the cream's going to rise to the top and when you know tv was really boasting over these are the dirt guys up front now so now we know it's a real dirt race um i roll my eyes a little bit to that but it's uh it is you know it was good i would have loved to see how that last lap was going to pan out the tyler was really coming on the 20 car there with a couple laps to go but uh it was it was good. One of the restart wrecks we didn't talk about is the Briscoe took out, Ryan Blaney on one of the

restarts. I mean, he just kind of went down there and he was like, hey, the hump in the middle of the track knocked me to the right. That's why you're not supposed to run over them. Like, they're so huge. Like, I don't know where he was going to go, but he cleaned out Blaney on one of those restarts. And, you know, it's just a, it's an eye roll. head scratcher. Like, where are you, that was one of those, where are you going? Like, that's not at the racetrack down there. And, but Blaney got the shorter into that.

Briscoe's running on a broken finger. I think it's on his left hand too, which I'm a left hand pull guy. So when I'm driving, I'm pulling down on my left hand more than I'm steering with my right. So I'm sure that's not totally comfortable, but he still ran extremely good. that's that's really all I got from that one. It's be interesting whether we go back or not. I mean, I think it's 50-50 at best that we go back. Well, before we move on from Bristol,

I want to give a shout out to Dirt Haas Racing's social media team because they tweeted out, when it's your last dirt race with this picture of Kevin Harvick. Which is pretty funny. I'm sure he's a guy. He's very happy. He doesn't have to do this anymore. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, again, I call these type of races, novelty races, but there's so many of them in our schedule now. Novelties are now our normal ovals. This is the new NASCAR. So, yeah, we had winners. It's Christopher Bell, obviously, for winning the race. Tyler Reddick.

another great run. I think he has as many top fives as all of JGR combined. Nobody has the top five at JGR except for Christopher Bell, who's now leading the points. He's carrying our organization right now for sure. I feel like

we've run very, very well with our 11 car, but we are just mired with mistakes that have kept us from good finishes except for this one. This is just a flat out. We finished 22nd because that's where we deserved to fit.

finish. Austin Dillon, we talked about earlier. We considered him a winner for the weekend. A great, great run for him. You know, he doesn't get a whole lot of top fives. And so this is a great run for him. He ran dirt a lot over the last, you know, when he was coming up in the ranks. And Ricky Stenhouse, you know, this team, we talked about after the 500, well, what now for

that team, right? Are they going to go back to running 28th or 13th? 30th. The answer is no. They've definitely and clearly taken a step forward this year in performance. He's more competitive at every racetrack. He's battling within the top 10, especially top 15, more times than not. So this team has definitely taken a step forward in performance from previous years. And whether it be Ricky or the team, whatever it is, they're doing well. So shout out to them. They're another one of our winners. or losers

Lugano had a rare off night he did he got caught up in some incidents but even when he got back there where I was he passed back pretty quick and I saw him making moves back towards the front but again

sometimes in dirt racing get caught up in other people's incidents that's how I got my front nose taking off as Josh Barry spun out right in front of me and I got knocked from behind into it Amarola I I thought in the heat race

he wasn't that strong, but he actually had a good race going. But then it says he made a mistake, chasing more speed and damaged his car on lap, and finished 31st. So Al Marolla, I don't know the way he really, I mean, he had bad finish about no, he deserves to be a loser

because I don't know what our expectations were of him going to that race anyway. And then Kyle Larson, obviously for him getting a 35th, fifth place finish considering everyone's expectations is oh it's a dirt race collar's just going to go out there and dominate um i that uh obviously he left there with a lot different finish than what him or uh most people

thought that was going to be and joey lagano yeah i talked about joey oh i just wanted i was going to in my head i'm listening to you talk also reading off my computer that joey's one guy my perception is that he's usually pretty good at this bristle dirt race obviously it helps that he won the first one. But like you mentioned, I see you at the back of the pack and then Joey restarts behind you and then Joey moves up 10 positions. They're like, oh, Joey's passing cars. Yeah. Well, he must have had a front end. He must not have knocked, knocked his right rear camber out. But, but yeah, he is good at dirt racing. Or dirt stock car racing, for sure. He dominated the truck race, walked away with that one, wasn't even close. And then, yeah,

I thought he was going to be someone that was going to battle for a win on Sunday. But obviously, incidents happen. Dear Danny, we've got some questions that we want to ask. Dare, Danny. We need answers and we need him fast. We tried to ask Junior, but his answers were lame. And with DBC, it was more of the same. Now we're caught on you because you're our only hope.

This ain't the raged track, so maybe you won't choke. Moving on to Dear Denny. This one you kind of answered a little bit when we were talking about Bristol Dirt. But first question we have is Chase Brisco raced with a broken finger. How painful, difficult is it to drive with a broken finger or injured hand?

So I did have an injured hand. So I have a scar right here from... I nearly ripped my pinky off. This was my rookie season. and we were racing around the hauler. We had a Charlotte Motor Speedway test, and we were racing to see how fast we could run around the hauler, the trailer, and the rig.

And the record was like, I don't know, 12 seconds or 15 seconds, something like that. Well, the front bumpers on these rigs, the truckers, they have like these huge stainless steel front bumpers. It's kind of for show, makes it look really good. Well, I grabbed it to try to, pull myself around the hauler and it literally just shredded my pinky here and it was hanging down and so I had to get this bandaged up and I remember running I think it was the Richmond Cup race where I like had this big bandage on and had to run it and it was it was painful I didn't have to

have surgery or anything but they certainly stitched it up quite a bit but yeah I imagine If he has to have surgery on his finger, it probably hurts, no doubt. So it's good driving, racing injured there. If NASCAR changed its revenue sharing model earlier, would the cost cuts purposes of the next gen car have been necessary? Well, I think it just depends on what part we're really speaking about. NASCAR changed the revenue sharing model. Why would they share revenue earlier?

they're just going to open up their pockets and say here's a couple bucks if you and curtis polk had decided to started and michael jordan has started to start this ain't oh whoa whoa whoa whoa this is a misconception this is not about denny hamlin and curtis polk rallying the troops of the teams and finally going after money for nascar teams have been going in and out of business for decades we've had a championship team and furniture row go out of business the next year like This has been a problem for decades. What I think Curtis and his expertise, Brent coming from another sport,

is basically saying, well, why do we not have our costs covered, right? All other sports, your cost is covered through media revenue. And then you create other revenue through sponsorship or whatever, right? But they know before they even hit the court or hit the field that the media rights, revenue covers whatever it costs to go compete. So then they did some big analysis over what does it cost us to compete at a high level in

NASCAR. And once we presented that number to NASCAR, here's what it costs for a, if you're a single car team to run 15th. Here's what it costs. They immediately started saying, all right, well, how can we cut that down? So versus, all right, well, let us help you get to that number to cover your cars. Then they started saying, well, how can we cut that number down for you guys? We'll help you guys.

And since we're going to help you spend the money you have versus given a, you know, what we deemed a fair share. So they were not going to give us anything that was not part of an agreement. But which is why this, these talks are so important right now and that we get it right because we can't have these talks again for another 10 years. So we have to make sure it's right and we secure the team's health for at least the next decade. So I guess the better question here is that if the relationship between the teams and the revenue sharing model was healthier years ago, would there have been such a focus on cutting costs now in the present?

Maybe. but the difference is too is sponsorship's a lot different than it used to be as well. I mean, I think that we talked about it previous episodes, but there's a lot more opportunities for people to spend money in sports than there ever has been. I mean, there's like 3,500 options in how you can spend your marketing dollars in sports. It used to be that there weren't jersey patches being sold on NBA teams. They used to not name every arena. There's just a lot of different ways.

And so we're fighting with other leagues to get the sponsorship, right? And so, you know, at one time there was a whole lot of Fortune 500 companies, right? That's kind of what we boasted. X hundreds and hundreds of Fortune 500 companies. That number has gone down or the level of participation in which they have in our sport is down. So who does that directly hurt? That hurts us, the race teams who depend on it. So we're now at a point where what we bring in and sponsorship doesn't, and what we get from NASCAR doesn't cover our costs. Both of them combined don't cover our costs. So we have to, you know, we have to

get revenue or else to go out of business. There was a plane flying a advertisement over Bristol before the race. One thing I know is that with all these different ways to spend your marketing dollars, it's not put it on a banner and fly it over a racetrack because you look up and you can't see it. No, I don't know how much it costs to fly a banner, banner over a racetrack or beach or something like that, but it's, it doesn't work. Usually if it's an independent plane carrying a message over a racetrack, it's usually not a good one, so it's probably a good thing you can see it. moving on to martinsville this week i guess this is where uh the 11 cars hot street we start a run right now jared not tomorrow not last week right now the 11 car goes on a run

darlington talladaga martinsville dover telling you white hot we're getting to get white hot what makes you uh what makes you say that well for one history i mean i think at this point last year we were about 30th in points. We're running better this year than we were last year, and we got really going pretty good during the playoffs. We had the best average finish. I think we're still in the top three of average running position of all cars this year. I think our cars were better than they were last year.

We've just been to racetracks that either I'm not good at or we're not executing like Richmond. That's a layup for me and this team. We should win that race. We shouldn't go finish 20-something. That's ridiculous. But we just had, we lost control of the race when we had control of it.

And I just, I'm confident. I'm confident that we're going to go on a tear starting right now. You think we're going to see good racing there? I think that it will be better. I don't know what you define as good, but the racing certainly should be better than what we've had there.

I mean, we still have shifting. As long as we have shifting... That's what I'm getting at. You better just temporary expectations because until we get rid of shifting, that will be the single biggest change we make to what we see as far as passing is concerned. But as long as we can continue to downshift,

grab another gear and go whenever we make a mistake and don't hit our lines in our corners, passing will be more difficult. But we shifted last year, right? And you did see some passing. I think this aerodynamic package is a little bit better. Like it's, if where we needed to go was a 10,

where one is where we were last year, this arrow package changed it to like a three. So we moved the needle a little bit, but we've got to be, we've got to move it quite a bit more to really overcome shifting. So qualifying is still going to be just as important. Getting a good starting spot. Yes, and no.

It's a long. race 500 laps around that racetrack you can make up spots if your car's good you'll you can march to the front we did it multiple times um in the well we dominated the fall race there we let won both stages kicked ass the final run there the day if you remember we had a bad pit stop i still busted through the field and was haul and ass to the front before ross did the wall ride thing so i think it's possible if your car is exceptional and it's good you can i'm confident no matter where we qualify we can make our way to the front. We just, when I say we're going to get hot,

it means we need to get hot in qualifying, score staged points, get a good finish. That's where we need to do to get our shit together. Yeah, I guess one thing we won't see this weekend is a wall ride. No. It's not legal anymore. Can't do that. Nope, can't do it.

It's a novelty. It only happened once. How about that? Just once, right? The joke's not as funny the second time. Anything else you want to add to this show before we close it out? Nope. Just make sure you rate, review, and follow us, right?

That's good. Did I get all that right? I think so. Rate review, follow? Who? Travis is not as head of... Who we rate reviewing and following? You're rating the show, hopefully five stars.

At... At actions detriment... Well, the show is called Action's detrimental. So you're rating that on all your channels that you listen to podcasts. You're following at Dirtymo Media on all socials and Denny Ham... at Denny Hamlin and at Jared D. Allen. Yeah, and you're following those as well. All right.

Well, we're going to be talking to y'all next week after the 11 scores of dub. See you. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.