American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 12.2 Zachary Taylor

Episode Date: February 9, 2019

Taylor has come out on top during the Mexican war, and now is primed to become president. However, Polk hates him, his wife doesn’t want him to get the job and the Whigs are nervous… Is Taylor whiggy enough? Will he follow their plans? Will he tow the party line? And, this is important: will he drop down dead after a month like their last guy?

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Zachary Taylor Part 2. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I am Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump. And this is 12.2, Zachary Taylor. Zach-tay. Finishing off the Zach-tay. Yeah. Sounds like a type of Greek wine. Pass me the Zach-tay. Yes, it does. Yeah, a type of Greek wine pass me the Zacte yes it does

yeah a type of ouze yeah thoughts of him from last time had a couple of weeks well we sort of went through

that he's not a politician yeah he loves to play tricks on people yes he did which is hilarious yeah so I don't know

I don't know how his presidency will it's a hard one to predict isn't it because he's so out of the loop yeah yeah it's like just plonking someone in the presidency who's had no experience how his presidency will... It's a hard one to predict, isn't it? Because he's so out of the loop. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like just plonking someone in the presidency who's had no experience of politics before. Hmm. It's never a good thing, is it? I don't know. It could be. Well, it could be. Let's see if it is. Right. Let's start. And you ready for this week's introduction?

Yes. Black screen. Okay. Always with a black screen. Always with a black screen okay always the black screen always with the black screen next week has to be white screen start with white and fade into snow okay that's my challenge you gotta squeeze that in yeah okay we'll do that um but it's definitely a black screen this uh this week and it says january the 24th 1848 oh right yeah you're okay with that yes yes okay that puts us pretty much at the here and now where we are in the narrative and just under 100 years before the end of world war ii yes that's what everyone's discussing that morning yeah Yeah, weird. Anyway, fade out of the black to a sort of blurry water scene. Lots of ripples, lots of green

because it's reflecting the greenery around. Right. Yeah. Like a Bob Ross painting. Yeah, why not? Okay. Yeah. So just pan over the water a bit,

pan over and then lift up and there's a man on the edge of the brook that you now realise that we're looking at. And he's next to a mill. So man, mill, brook. Is there trouble up mill? There's no trouble, or at least none that we can see. Okay.

You can see him from a distance. You can't really see any details. It's obviously a man, and he's obviously noticed something in the water. Sort of looking into it. Fish. Maybe he grabs a stick and prods the water a little bit. The fish screams. Or maybe it's a fish. You don't know, you see. We're at

a distance. Then you see him wading in. Try for just one shot here. Yeah. Just slowly pan in, but only very slowly. He's still at a distance here. He wades into the water and he scoops down and he picks something up. Something that can fit into his hand.

And he's looking at it. He's looking a bit confused. Fish. It's not fish. You can tell that because whatever it is, it's not alive. Could be a dead fish. It's not a dead fish. Okay.

He walks over to a nearby rock and then he bashes whatever it is. It's not a fish. In his hand between a rock and another large stone that he picks up. So he's just there, just hammering away. Rocking a hard place. Yeah, literally between the rock and the hard place. Whatever it is, he's just whacking it. A nut.

Was he whacking his nut in the brook? I don't think so, no. Okay. Again, he looks at whatever it is in his hand, and we're getting closer now. We've been panning him slowly. Right. And he lets out a sigh.

We're close enough to be able to see him. Yeah. And then he walks back to the mill, where you notice for the first time, because the shot's panned round slightly, that there's another man there working on the mill wheel, maybe repairing it slightly. Okay.

Yeah, he's quite big and chiseled. A water mill. Yeah, yeah, it's a water mill. I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. So he's there just working on it, repairs. And these are real quotes, I'm about to say. What is it?

The workman asked. So man number two looking up at man number one. Man number one replies, gold. There's a pause. Man number two lets out a huge groan. Oh, no, that can't be. There's another pause. I know it to be nothing else.

And then both men let out a big sigh. And then the lower third comes up. California gold rush. Hey, I was just thinking that. Yeah, so there we go. Do you know where they hit the gold? To see whether it was gold, because it was malleable. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, you see. More dense than pyrite, which is fool's gold. Yeah. I wouldn't have known that if I had not looked this up to do this. But yeah. This man is a man named James Marshall. He was building the mill.

It wasn't actually owned by him, but he'd been commissioned to build it. James Marshall recounted this tale afterwards. And if it's true, he had a lot of foresight. Because you'd expect the first discovery of gold in California to be a, Ho hey, we've hit gold. But James Marshall realised, oh dear, if we found gold and there's gold around, then we might as well tear this mill down.

Because sure enough, anyone who worked there soon was running off to the hills to make their fortune. Yeah. And his prediction was correct. James Marshall did try some prospecting himself, but failed to really find anything and died poor. Oh, that's sad's sad well there you go that's our introduction and then fade to black and then zachary taylor part two for what you said

the fortunes the us is very much about to change no yes no we'll see it certainly has an impact gold yeah but perhaps not the impact that you'd think if you just stopped and didn't think about it too much. But we'll get into that. Right, last time we ended the episode at the end of the Mexican War, didn't we? Yes, we did. Or at least the end of Taylor's

involvement in it. Yes. The war was all but won. Some other things happened but we don't need to go into them for time reasons. Just know that Taylor's pretty much out of it now. Now, we do not know when Taylor decided to run for president. Okay. But obviously, it's between now and him becoming president.

So you're saying sometime within that slot, he may have thought, I could probably do that. I'm guessing so, yeah. It would have been around this time at the end of the war, it would seem. There's some suggestion that he was persuaded by others, rather than it being his decision or his idea to begin with. There's one story of when a friend proposed the idea to the 64-year-old general, he replied, and I quote here, Stop your nonsense and drink your whiskey.

Sounds fantastic advice. Yes, it does. I want a T-shirt that says, Stop your nonsense and drink your whiskey. Sounds fantastic advice. Yes, it does. I want a t-shirt that says, Stop your nonsense and drink your whiskey. I think this is a brilliant quote. I think it's my favourite presidential quote yet. That is brilliant. We could all learn a lot from that.

Very practical as well. Yeah, it is. Anyway, in 1847, he wrote, and I quote again, Under no circumstances have I any aspirations for the office and nor do I have the vanity to consider myself qualified for the station. That quote aged poorly didn't it? Yeah but the point being towards the end of the war he was saying no no no that's not for me don't want to do it however things seem to change within the year we know that by the end of the war taylor was sick and tired of polk you remember polk was

always doing taylor down he did not like the star general he was far too whiggish in polk's mind so yeah taylor was frustrated with the way he'd been treated by the president, and perhaps this had a hand in to why he decided to run. Yeah. To stick it to Polk and the ilk. More likely, however, he was simply just worn down by the sheer number of Whig politicians that wanted him to run. The Whigs had had a hard time of it recently, hadn't they? Yes, they had.

Yes. In fact, quick party recap here, so we can really fully understand the misery of the Whigs. Because they've never not had a hard time. As we've seen, they came about after the era of good feelings. The period of one party lasting about an afternoon. And then the original Republicans started to split, as we've covered. You've got those following Van Buren and Andrew Jackson, who became the Democrats. And then you've got those that opposed them, who over time, although not quite as quickly, became the Whigs, mainly led

by Henry Clay. Yeah, soon to be President Clay. As he introduced himself regularly. Yes. Now in this time, the Democrats stood, and this is oversimplification here, I know, but just to give you a sense. So the Democrats in this time stood for small government, strong president. They distrusted government. They thought that government would lead to tyranny. Therefore, they wanted a strong president in place to control this vast government that had risen. And they wanted state-based control, didn't they? Yes, they were more keen for states' rights to be considered above national rights, definitely.

Yeah, obviously they wanted the strong president as long as it was one of their presidents. Yeah, that only works if it's a Democrat president. They also felt the tariffs that were in place that we've talked about quite a bit before, the Democrats largely thought that this was a tax on the poor to help the rich. Yeah, poor farmers in the South propping up rich business owners in the North. They also pushed for expansion and the Democrats were largely popular in rural communities.

The Whicks on the other hand believed that Congress was superior to the Executive Office. So Congress ruled, to the executive office. So Congress ruled, the president simply administered. They're there to like do the filings. They're like the chair. Yeah. Oversee the meetings. Yeah someone's got to organise this stuff. Congress is ruling and then the president's just sorting stuff out. You can see why you'd think that as well because that's more democratic in a way because you've got more than one person making the decisions. And it's also quite clearly how the Constitution was written at the start. At least in my opinion, the way I take it.

Obviously, you can argue against that. But yeah, the Whigs really found that Congress should have a larger role than they had at this time. They feared that the Democrat style of government would lead to a type of monarchy with too much power in the hands of one person. Yeah. They believed in industry, banks, education, railways, etc. Seeing these things as the way to modernise and improve the country. The Democrats saw success as expanding the country on a map.

Whereas the Whigs were more successes expanding the country through technology not physically on a map but by improving what we've got social economic yes exactly yeah yeah so again different philosophies of what indicated growth in a country makes more sense because I mean you could argue if all the states do their own things have their own laws have their own ideas states will get left behind because they may not have the money to fund certain things that other states can. And at that point, when does a country not become a country? They're not a United States that

are in America. Well, that's it. We're so firmly entrenched with what America has become that it's very easy to lose sight of United States really were a united group of independent states to begin with. Many countries. Yeah.

They were states that had a common cause and it slowly changes and fluctuates over time. But yeah, all this debate's going on between the two parties. So that's just a quick recap of where the parties are standing at this time in history because as we know

the parties change a lot in philosophy over time, as we've already seen and we're definitely going to see in the future. So that's where the parties are standing. Support, by the way, for the Whigs mainly came from cities and market towns. Slavery, both parties had a complex opinion on it. Let's put it that way. As we're going to see in the next few episodes. But just know that there are people for and against slavery in both parties at this point.

It's not a party divide. No. No, you've got... It's a moral divide. Yeah. The slavery issue is definitely mainly split North and South, but you've definitely got Northern Democrats and Southern Whigs. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's more complex than just a North-South and party divide. Anyway, back to the misfortune of the Whigs, which is how we started this. So a quick recap on the Whigs. While the Democrats had Jackson, and then Van Buren, and then Polk, the only Whig president we have had so far is William Harrison. And he died in a month. Oh. Yeah.

Their track record's not the best, you could argue. It's not great. And then if you remember the vice president, Tyler took over and technically he was supposed to be a Whig but he was so not a Whig they chucked him out the party. Yeah.

Yeah. Interestingly, he is often listed as a Whig in lists. Right. But I didn't on his card I've listed him as no party because I don't think he deserves to be called a wig I guess officially he was but he actually wasn't he got chucked out the party

well at that point he wasn't anymore so I'm going at the end of his presidency not the start I think where you end up is more important than where you begin myself oh it's a deep one I'm not even going to open that kind of word ok right is more important than where you begin. Myself. Oh, it's a deep one, man. That is a deep one. I'm not even going to open that kind of word.

Okay, right. Yeah, so we've had Harrison, is my point, for a month, and then Tyler just wasn't a Whig. And that's it. That's all the Whigs have ever achieved. Many in the party were starting to despair at their own misfortune. Yeah. But right now, at the end of the Mexican War, things were finally starting to despair at their own misfortune. Yeah. But right now, at the end of the Mexican War,

things were finally starting to look good. The most popular man in the entire country, General Taylor, was said to have wig leanings. Ooh. As we saw last time, he wasn't overtly political, but he had started to say a couple of things. So, yes, some wigs were getting quite excited by this. He could be seen as the wigigs' very own Andrew Jackson.

You can see the comparison. Yeah, or at least another Harrison. Hopefully this one won't die within a month. Fingers crossed. Yeah, he was a war hero. And he's got Whig leanings. We can definitely run with him. People will vote for him.

This is great. This will work. Do you think he was dragged then to be president because of his party's desperation? Well, we'll see as we go through. Many in the party therefore pushed for Taylor to consider running for the job. However, Taylor was not only being eyed up by the Whigs. He had a fair few Southern Democrats looking at him as well, including Calhoun and his followers.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Taylor was, after all, a southern slave owner, so they thought, oh, he'll look after our interests. It soon became clear to many that if Taylor went for it, there's a very good chance he's going to win, so whoever can snap him up, it's going to look good for that party.

That's true. Come on, Whigs. I feel sorry for you. There were a couple of other names floating around, both parties at this time. Don't forget Polk had remained true to his word and was stepping down after one term. Yes. Yeah, so both parties were seeking a candidate.

Henry Clay for the Whigs was, as ever, an option. But he's really getting on by this point. I think he just gets nominated and feels sorry for him. So, oh, go on, put him in again. He honestly must have got to that point where people were starting to look a bit embarrassed and shuffling around and coughing slightly when he mentioned running for president again. I am going to run for president again. Oh. Oh, no. Clay.

It didn't work the last 58 times, did it, Clay? We've only had 12 presidents. Yeah, it is. Yeah, he'd never won. His support was lower than ever. The electorate knew everything they needed to know about him and had never voted for him. I mean, he'd come close, but he'd never won.

And that's important. So there were many Whigs who were starting to think, you know what, maybe we move on. Another possible candidate, General Scott, the other hero from the Mexican War. However, Scott's ambitions were cut short when Polk ordered a court of inquiry into Scott's handling of the war. Remember, Polk liked Scott no more than he liked Taylor.

Scott's handling of the war was deemed to be absolutely satisfactory, but it took up a lot of time and did Scott no favours in the press. So it soon became obvious that old rough and ready Taylor was a better choice than old fuss and feathers. Which was Scott's nickname. Because Scott

was very much the opposite of Taylor. He saw military etiquette was a very important thing. Everyone should be wearing pristine uniforms. Bright red. Yeah. Whereas, as we've seen, Taylor, as long as you turned up and you shoved the bayonet in the right person, he didn't care.

Now, while all these rumours and discussions were swirling around the country, Taylor was still in Mexico. Eight months have passed since his victory against Santa Ana, which we covered at the end of the last episode. So he's been there for quite a while. Taylor's still refusing to be drawn on the subject on his running. He announced that he would support Henry Clay, in fact.

Yeah. Yes. And everyone laughed. Well, he then put in the very damning caveat, which was, if he were electable, I would definitely support you you if you could win. Oh, imagine the range of emotions that Clay went through reading that. Big smile on his face.

I don't know, because Clay thought he was electable, so the point became moot. In his mind, maybe. That's the point, yeah. Who knows? However, things changed somewhat when Taylor finally headed home after the war. Getting back to the United States, he realised just how popular he'd become.

Yeah. Yeah, in New Orleans, there was a festival atmosphere to greet him. Mardi Gras. Girls in the street throwing flowers in front of him, that kind of stuff. Nice. Yeah. Medals of him. That kind of stuff. Nice. Yeah.

Medals being presented. That's good. Lots of slaps on the back. The old CV. Yeah. He didn't stay in New Orleans for long. He moved on to Baton Rouge, which, as we mentioned last time,

is where his plantation is and where his family live now. Also a great cake. Yeah. Okay. It's a red Battenberg. Oh, is it? Baton Rouge. That's a complete lie. Oh, you're just's a red Battenberg. Oh, is it? Baton Rouge. That's a complete lie.

Oh, you're just making it up, aren't you? Sorry. I totally believed you. Sorry. I don't know about cake. Cake's lovely. It's very close to New Orleans. That's about all I know about Baton Rouge.

Makes sense with the French influence, Cajun influence. Yes, yeah. A lot of French names around here New Orleans New Aurelian High five Didn't even mention that Of course they're all high fiving

New Orleans is named after a Roman Emperor A very good Roman Emperor One of the best If not the Not top scorer anymore though Loser Anyway Getting distracted Yeah, not top scorer anymore though. No. No. Loser. Anyway, getting distracted.

Taylor arrives home at his plantations, has a look around. How do you think he's feeling? Brilliant. Let's settle down. Yeah, he's quite happy he was. Okay. Yeah, everything's been looked after rather well, which is odd. Every time you hear of this, usually they get back to their plantation and go, this is a mess, and they have to sort it out.

Yeah. Apparently, everything was ticking along fine. Let's just count on what property i've got one two three four five six nine ten three hundred sixty four trees and one two three six hundred and twenty two slaves yeah oh yeah probably oh we've grown a few that That's good. Yes, sir. We have children born. Wonderful. More labour. Put them in the fields, Farquhar. Farquhar's his servant. Okay. He's French descent.

Fair enough. So, yeah. That's what he did when he got home. And like you say, he did indeed settle down slightly. However, the election was getting ever closer. Some people were starting to get a little bit nervous. First of all, Peggy, Taylor's wife. She made it very clear

that she had no desire to see her husband president. Such a big, horrible house. Who wants to live in that? It's like, he just got home. Do we really need to go to Washington, D.C.? We've never been there. I don't want to live in a swamp. Good point.

Yeah, it's... she didn't want it to happen she wanted retirement that's what she wanted to settle down and not only was his wife nervous about the prospects of taylor's presidency but many in the wig party were starting to get cold feet because of his ambition or because they just thought, oh no, wrong choice? Well, once bitten twice shy, there were many who were worried that Taylor would turn out to be like Tyler, not just because they're similar names. Easy to mix up, I've heard. Yes. Well, Tyler was a Wigan name, but as we discussed, completely different philosophies got chucked

out of the party. So the Whigs now wanted written assurances. If the war hero, Taylor, is chosen as a candidate, would he run on a Whig manifesto? And once elected, would he actually follow our ideals? That's a fair thing to demand of a candidate. Because it's all very well and good saying, yes, we can get this man elected, but will he actually be a Whig? Fair question.

And he's being really cagey about whether he's a Whig or not. Because he's not yet openly said, I even want to run for president. So people are starting to get a bit worried. Eventually, those high up in the Whig party decided to put it bluntly to Taylor. Put it in writing that you're a wig for the world to see. We will start looking elsewhere.

So, they sent a man named Bliss to Baton Rouge. He's been one of those, like, life coaches, hasn't he? Just imagine him turning up at his house with, like, a poncho, heating crystals in hand. A lava lamp. Oh, yeah. Sand yeah sandals well maybe you got the wrong uh image of bliss bliss actually already worked for taylor um in the army but he was also connected with the wigs this is why he was a good choice good friend of the family as

you will soon see okay but keep that image of him if you want because I quite like it. Hi Taylor! Let's just check your chi. Well he was sent to Baton Rouge to pin down the general. Let's get this letter written. Yeah. Turned out however that a trio of local Whigs had already got to Taylor first because when Bliss arrived he found that Taylor had

already agreed to do exactly this. He'd written a letter to a friend that was sort of incidental the letter was to be published publicly but you don't want to just publish a statement far better if it's a letter that you happen to write to someone that's been published just happens to get published yeah exactly yeah niceties it just seemed less forceful this way yeah yeah p.s a terrible power problem and that problem you were discussing with me in the last letter, I wouldn't have popped them myself.

Let them shrivel up. But after we got through that bit, if I remember correctly, I've not got it in my notes, I think it's about a 47-page letter, this. Oh, really? So it wouldn't surprise me if it started with that. Step one, apply lemon juice to the

arrow. Yes. Lots of home remedies, but eventually, page 36, he writes, I am a Whig, but not an Ultra Whig. If I were elected, I would not be mere president of a party.

I would endeavour to act independently of party domination and should feel bound to administer the government untrammelled by party schemes. That would make the Whigs a bit nervous, wouldn't it? Well, Bliss and the others decided this was good enough. I mean, they had nothing before, and they now had the clear statement, I am a Whig.

Says it right there. Yeah, in black and white. W-H-I-G. He is a wig. And yes, he had also made it very clear he'd be no one's puppet, but that was also always going to be the case. Taylor's not going to come into Washington and be pushed around, and Taylor wants to make that clear.

But yes, he's a wig. Just not an ultra-Whig. No. I'm not a hardline faction of the Whigs. I'm a moderate Whig. A Whig rule. A Whig rule, yeah, as they were known. So the Whig Convention was then held.

Taylor didn't actually want the Whig Convention to take place. He felt that downplaying his Whiggishness would actually help him gain votes from traditionally non-wig voters if they made a big song and dance about him being nominated by the wigs that might ruin that slightly yes fair point however Taylor's

not the wig party the wig party went no we're having our convention been looking forward to it all year we haven't had one in years we've already ordered the catering and everything and clay will be there yes so all year. We haven't had one in years. We've already ordered the catering and everything. And Clay will be there. So Taylor, as per usual for the time, did not attend the convention.

But it did go ahead. Taylor won the first round of voting. 111 votes to Clay's 98. Close though. Yeah, yeah. Scott got 43 and 22 votes went to another man named Webster, who we don't need to worry about.

And that's all I need to say, really. There's no interesting story to this nomination like we've had before in the past. The next round of votes, Taylor gained more votes, and then the next round he gained more until eventually he won. Good. Yeah, there you go. Exciting, thrilling race. Yeah.

Well, there is some tension at the end. Usually, once there was a clear winner, they had one more round, and then everyone would vote for the clear winner, just so you could then say, he is our unanimous choice. Everyone voted for him to be the nominee. I get it, but that's just ceremonial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't happen this time.

Oh? Oh, no. There was a group of Northern Whigs who refused to vote for Taylor, even when he had obviously won. Not chuffing wrong for that bloke. Want my clay. Oh, no, they wouldn't want clay either.

No, I want Webster. He's going to write a dictionary full of words we can use. Well, the problem with Taylor, as with Clay, they were both slave owners. And these were hardliners in the Whig faction who would say no to slavery under any condition. In the north

we pick our own fruit, eh, Holt? Get over here, Sen. Pick your own cotton, you mumty. For those non-English listeners, that is an English northern accent. Just in case you're confused what on earth's going on. Jamie's had a stroke.

So yeah, apart from this slight embarrassment, the convention passed off without a problem. President was chosen, vice president was chosen, a man named Millard Fillmore. That's a great name. Interesting name. He was an experienced Whig, so he was, well, that'll do.

Vice president. By experienced Whig we mean not experienced at all. But no, he'd had experience in politics. But like Taylor. So there we go. We've got our President and Vice President nominees in place. After everything

was wrapped up, a letter was sent to Taylor congratulating him. Well done, you're now the Whig nominee for President. And everyone sat around waiting for his reply. They put the sign off, Whig on. Yeah, they waited a bit more.

They had a round of tea and coffee. They waited a bit more. Someone coughed a bit. And so on. They've been quite brave. They've been working on this all day. They've been really hoping for this moment to use this. One said, hope he's not going to try and wiggle out of it.

And then there's just more embarrassed coughs. And someone threw their coffee at him. One, in fact, Henry Clay just nods at a bouncer who then just walks up and leads that man out. It's his occasional beating,

thumping outside, an occasional scream. Yeah. This continues for four weeks. Oh, poor guy. Not the beating, the waiting. But maybe a pun that bad. Probably deserved. Those high up in the wig party started to worry a little bit. What on earth's going on? Why haven't we heard anything back?

Has he changed his mind? Has something happened to him? God, he's not ill, is he? Just a little. Perhaps the letter got lost. That must be it. So they sent another letter. And this one, much to many people's relief, got a reply. It turned

out that Taylor had told the postmaster in Baton Rouge that he would not receive letters anymore, whose postage had not yet been paid for. So a letter had just been thrown in the dead letter room and completely ignored. But it's fine, it all got sorted. Taylor would indeed run for president

against the Democrats' choice, a man named Louis Cass. So the election of 1848 was on its way. And slightly different to the last couple, we see the election of 1848 was on its way. And slightly different to the last couple, we see the emergence of a third party. Ooh. Yes, the Free Soil Party.

You have nothing to say about that. Nope. FSP. Well, over the last few years, abolitionist movements had started to get more organised. OK. Yeah, there were various factions and strands of this but the most impactful on the national scene was the free soil movement they ran in the wake of the mexican war on the issue of stopping slavery spreading to the west especially california new mexico no slavery there their slogan was free soil, free speech, free labour, free men.

Aww. As the movement did not call for abolition of slavery, unlike some of the earlier movements, it was able to gain a bit more support. We're not saying get rid of slavery, but perhaps let's just not spread it about. Yes, it's more of a compromise. Yeah.

You're getting your foot in the door. Exactly. So it drew from the anti-slavery factions of both the Whigs and the Democrats, and soon they had a strong figurehead as their nominee. Can I guess who it is? Go on then. Is it Ulysses S. Grant? No. Damn it!

Interesting guess. He was boxed in the last episode. Oh, I see. Yeah, no, no. It's someone we've come across before. Clay? No, not Clay. He's trying everything, isn't he? Bless him. Jefferson Davis.

No, no, definitely not. I'm just going to tell you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It wasn't last episode we discussed him. You're looking at last episode's notes. Yeah. Oh, of course. Lincoln.

No. Taylor. No. Buch, of course. Lincoln. No. Taylor. No. Buchanan. No, no, no. Getting closer. This is someone we've seen a lot of before. As in, we did two episodes on him.

Polk. No. Polk's dead. Oh, no, he's not yet. He's president where we are now. Yeah. John Tyler. No, not Tyler.

Oh, William Harrison. No, he's definitely dead okay okay oh you only had to turn it one more time monroe you went too far it's martin van buren oh really you should have just said you really should have done but you stopped me now i have to decide how much of the last 40 minutes i need to cut out. It's only 39. Martin Van Buren. If you remember his episode, you clearly don't.

I did mention at the end that he did do a couple of things. I won't mention now because I don't want to ruin it for later. And he did try and run for president again. I'm only saying that, but you didn't say how. Well, not only did he run for president again, as we saw last episode, to become the nominee for Democrats, but at this point he abandons the party that he formed, or at least helped to form,

and he joins up with the Free Soil Movement. That's interesting, because he was so non-committal before, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, he becomes more anti-slavery as he ages, a bit like John Quincy Adams did. Yeah, that's good. Respect to Van Buren. However, unfortunately, this third party was never going to be able to compete against the two main parties. The way the American system works, third parties don't work. So it was never going to be able to really achieve anything on its own. But them being there did help form the narrative and siphon votes off parties.

It had an influence. Yeah. However, because neither of the main parties were actually taking a stand on slavery in this election, it didn't change as much as they hoped it would. Oh. And slavery really didn't become an issue in the election. Most of the issues were debated at local level.

There wasn't a big national narrative for this one. However, Taylor's name and his status was undeniably more appealing than that of Cass to the average voter. I mean, who's Cass? Taylor, he won the war for us. Yeah, he easily took over Mexico. Yeah, so I'm not going to vote for that guy. There was a bit of a wobble during the election when Taylor again made it clear that he was not going to be controlled by the Whig party but be his own man. He stated,

I am not a party candidate and, if elected, cannot be president of a party but the president of the whole people. That's fair enough. That's fair enough, but you can also understand why some Whigs started to grow nervous again. Again, they're getting flashes of Tyler. It's like, is he going to abandon us as soon as he's president? So again, Taylor was forced to sign another letter, this time one that was written for him.

Just put your name on this. Just made sure he was really a wig. Anyway, election day came. Van Buren and the Free Soilers got nowhere. Cass and Taylor both won 15 states each. Ooh. Yeah. However, Taylor got the states that counted.

The ones that had more weight in the Electoral College. So he won with 163 votes to 127. Also winning the popular vote, having 1,360,000. To Cass's, 1,221,000. Okay. So yeah, it took a while for the news of his victory to get to Taylor, although it was quicker than we've ever seen before. Okay.

Yes, because ten years previously, a man named Samuel Morse had demonstrated his telegraph code to the President Van Buren. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. He said. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And Van Buren was like, what?

SOS? Get help? What for? If you're okay. beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, new invention a bit of wire on a pole but they tried on the ground and it just didn't work very well so they then apparently they heard that in Europe they were shoving the wire up on a pole so they went

oh let's try that then and yeah it worked I guess interference or the charge would dissipate I don't know also if something

happens to the wire it's just a pain isn't it whereas if it's on a pole you can just take it down but yeah

I think we're focusing perhaps on the wrong thing here. We're worried about the poles. The telegraph system's just been invented. Oh, wow! This is a huge revolution. Yeah, so over the next four years, the electrical telegraph explodes throughout the United States. All of a sudden, people can talk almost instantaneously with each other

as long as they know how to go beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep. But more importantly, what colour were the poles? Brown. Just wood colour. Yeah, I think so. I don't think they're painted. That's a shame.

Missed an opportunity there. They did. Anyway, news of Taylor's victory was telegraphed to Memphis, right on the edge of Kentucky. That's as far as the system had got by that point. So then message was taken down the Mississippi to Taylor and news reached him.

Some guy hearing the beep, beep, beep message then, remember that, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Get on a boat and driving down. Well, funny you should say, because apparently when Taylor received the news, he showed no emotion whatsoever. Had no understanding. But now we know why.

It's a man beeping at him. What? And frantic, he's trying to gesture as well at the same time. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. New hats? So yeah, there you go. He is to be the president. Polk, meanwhile, was getting ready to leave office,

and he received word that Taylor had requested to step down as Major General on the very day of his inauguration. This really annoyed Polk. Because he'd have to be there, wouldn't he? No, not that. Taylor was getting paid to be Major General. Oh. And Taylor wanted to be paid literally up until the point where he was President,

and then he could just get paid for being President. And Polk was a bit sniffy about this. He couldn't do both? No, you can't be a major general and the president. One's the civilian role, one's the military. OK. I hereby discontinue my service as a major general. Quick, prison me, prison me.

Quick, quick, quick. Quick. Time is money. Oh, dear. Partying along in each other's company. Anyway, yeah, there's still a couple of months to go before the inauguration, and Taylor stayed at home for this. One day, a steamboat passed through Baton Rouge.

Taylor came on board to see a couple of guests that he knew to be there, just to go and say hello to them. And as he made his way to the main saloon, he spotted none other than Henry Clay, who was down in the region visiting someone. Oh, he must be so sad. Well, they'd never met before, but Taylor recognised the political man. Obviously, he's a titan of politics.

Just seeing the sad face and the numerous empty whiskey glasses around him. Well, Taylor bowed to the man, and Clay did not respond at all. Too drunk. Taylor, not showing how put off he was, continued, perhaps a bit stiffly. Just kept bowing the entire time. Then the man with Clay kind of nudged Clay and went, do you not realise who that was? Clay hadn't realised who it was.

And then when the man whispered, that's the president-elect, that's Taylor, Clay, horrified, suddenly rushed out, caught up with Taylor, and said to him, General, you have grown out of my recollection. And Taylor replied, you can never grow out of mine. Oh! Yeah. Burn.

So shortly after this, the Tay tailors had reason to celebrate because betty taylor's youngest daughter was getting married oh to none other than bliss oh yeah one of these mystic weddings yes chanting in flames in a forest great feathers. Yeah, it was a good wedding. Everyone had a nice time. Everyone was very relaxed at the end. Oh, yeah. Just the free yoga and massages. And the pass around of what they thought was tobacco, but it wasn't.

While celebrating this union, Taylor started to think about the problems in front of him. He was a political outsider. He did not know Washington. And he was determined to be his own man, so he needed to create his own cabinet. Taylor spent the last weeks at home writing letters to men that he knew and trusted, attempting to create a cabinet that he could work with. It was slow going, and again many in the Whig party started to get nervous. What's he doing? Why is he not forming a cabinet? What's going on here? In fact, the day that Taylor

set out for the capital, he still had not got things sorted. It's going up to the wire, this is. Last minute kind of going. Anyway, he boards the steamboat without Peggy. Peggy was going to stay at home for now and meet up later. She wasn't happy about her husband

becoming president whatsoever. So she was going to travel separately at a later date to avoid all the pomp and the fuss. Her and Betty and Bliss, who were going to come with them. So Taylor spent several days travelling up the Mississippi to Cincinnati. At one point, however, a

suitcase fell off the rack and hit Taylor on the side, leaving him very bruised, his arm in a lot of pain. Oh, no. Doesn't sound like a death spiral, does it? He's present for two and a half hours. It's fine, he's not present yet.

Oh, dear. But apart from that, the trip wasn't eventful. It's fine, he didn't die of suitcase death. But you are thinking like a wig would at the time. Yes, oh, my God! Oh, my God! Put him in a bubble. That's fine. He didn't die of suitcase death. But you are thinking like a wig would at the time. Oh my god! Put him in a bubble. Keep him safe. Once in Cincinnati, a large crowd greeted him.

The crowd swelled at one point, though, as crowds sometimes do, and Taylor got pushed up against a guardrail right into his bad arm. No! And crushed his hand. Yeah. Even more pain. Not great, but it's fine. He lived.

He lived. It's all okay. After having his hand seen to, he finally sent a telegram to Washington offering a man named Clayton to be his Secretary of State. So he's finally getting it sorted, literally on his journey to Washington. Then Taylor changed boats, and then he headed up the Ohio River, bound for Pittsburgh.

But this is in the middle of February, and it was a particularly cold winter, and the river froze over. Oh, he's going to survive, isn't he? It's fine, it's fine. But the wigs must be terrifying right now. It's like, come on, get cold, heat him up, not too hot! to be terrifying right now. It's like, you might get cold.

Heat him up. Not too hot. They got off the river and they made the rest of the journey on sleighs and wagons and trains. So it's all okay. The scenery apparently was so icy and majestic

that Taylor stopped on more than one occasion just to take in the scenery. I was just amazed by the views. Now in a show of how much travel had improved

since the start of our podcast, despite all these delays, the journey only took a week from Baton Rouge to Washington. Wow! Yeah. Even though all these delays. So they powered up the Mississippi and then were able to use trains for part of the journey

so things are really starting to progress. I mean, from what I've heard, even now using modern trains in the US would take you about a week to get from New Orleans to... I have no idea what the trains are like. A lot of people mock the US trains, and a lot of people that live in the US as well, as not being that great. Because everyone drives. Well, considering what I know about the trains in this country and how small the country is,

and it still could take you a week to get to work sometimes, it feels. That's true. Yeah, so. Trains in Germany are amazing. Oh, they have good trains, don't they? Yeah. They work well. So yeah, Taylor finds himself in the capital,

and he heads for a hotel he's going to stay in to begin with. The route was lined with people watching the carriage go by, waving, trying to get a glimpse of the new president. So in order to thank the crowd, once in the hotel, Taylor headed for the balcony just to say hello. However, once he stepped out, there were unusual noises. There was lots of cheering to begin with, and that cheering suddenly turned to jeering.

And then someone cried out, Oh, get out, Johnny Boyle! You can't fool us! What? Yeah, everyone was a little bit confused until it was quickly established that the crowd thought that a clerk in the Navy department called John Boyle, who happened to look remarkably similar to Taylor, they thought he had stepped out onto the balcony.

They didn't want to see him. They wanted to see the new president. That's funny. Yeah, so... It really is me. I'm dressed to be shabbily, I'll admit that. So it's the way I roll. I always have.

It goes to show, same as Clay not recognising him, the public didn't recognise him. Taylor was a name, he wasn't a known quantity. That's true. Anyway, the mistake was soon spotted. The jeers turned back to cheers, Everyone had a nice time. Once done there, he headed

to the White House to meet Polk. The two had a formal and brief meeting, neither under any illusions on how they felt about each other. Although they did have a formal dinner the next day and apparently it was all very courteous. Oh, very courteous. Yes.

Pass the salt, please. Clink, clink. I give a toast to you and your long, successful presidency. I hope, Polk, that your retirement lasts a long time. You deserve it. Yeah, Taylor then spent his time finishing off his cabinet, which was not widely seen as a great one. One newspaper reported that it was the weakest in 20 years.

Some were expecting Henry Clay to get a position. Possibly Henry Clay. But no, no luck. Finally, the day arrived for Taylor to be sworn in. Polk wrote in his diary, General Taylor is, I have no doubt, a well-meaning old man.

He is, however, uneducated, exceedingly ignorant of public affairs, and I should judge of very ordinary capacity. Meow. Meow. Put those claws away, Polk. of very ordinary capacity. Wow. Meow. Oh, yeah.

Put those claws away, punk. You female dog. Outside the Capitol building, however, the largest crowd ever seen in Washington was forming. The crowd was filled with farmers, plantation owners, factory workers, factory owners, frontiersmen, veterans. People of all walks of life, basically. The improved travel systems throughout the country meant more people could get to the capital to see the president.

Always going, see? See what we could do? So yeah, lots of people had heard of Taylor. Everyone wanted to turn up and have a look. And sure enough, Taylor appeared, removing his hat from time to time to acknowledge the fact that people were cheering him. So he's just sat there, lifting his hat, saying hello, waving. It's all very nice. Weird.

Taylor began his speech. Perhaps, having learned from what happened to Harrison, he kept it short and sweet. Looked at the clouds, okay. Perhaps it was the other wigs. Keep it short, okay? And if anyone spots rain, someone rugby tackle him. Drag him inside with a hot water bottle.

Very gently. Gently, gently rugby tackle. Inside, hot toddy immediately. No more than 20 words. We're keeping this one safe. Yeah. Just over 1,000 words, apparently. Oh, okay.

Yeah. One of the shortest in history, but not the shortest. Thank you! Yes. Unsurprisingly, Polk, who had sat close enough to actually hear the speech, unlike almost everyone else, said that it was poorly delivered. Of course we did. Yeah.

But that did not matter. The people cheered anyway. It looked good. Yeah. Taylor then headed not matter. The people cheered anyway. It looked good. Yeah. Taylor then headed to the White House to start his presidency. Just as the snow was coming down. Oh my god, oh my god! Quick, get him inside!

A ball was then thrown. The Whigs panicked. None of that rowdy behaviour here. Yeah, no, a different type of ball. A party ball was thrown. Celebrations had Taylor's daughter, the newlywed Betty Bliss, acted as hostess. Peggy had arrived in the capital by this point, but she was too unwell to attend officially.

Unofficially, she just didn't want anything to do with this and she spent most of her time in Washington upstairs in the White House not getting involved. Anyway, once all the celebration was over, Taylor finally got down to running the country. Soon after, the shocking news of Polk's death hit the Capitol.

What? Yeah. Which I'm sure Taylor remains stony-faced and didn't let a small grin appear on his face at all. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep just died. As in James Madison's movie. Oh! Yes. Leaving a hole in Washington's society. In the last decade, she'd become the matron of the social scene in the capital. And she was going to be sorely

missed by most people. Now this is debatable, but it is said, although it's not written down anywhere like primary source, that Taylor spoke at her funeral and described her as America's First Lady and this is where we get the term

First Lady from. Really? Yeah, so it was Dolly Madison was the first First Lady, although obviously it's retroactively been applied to Martha Washington and any President's wife That's interesting. Yeah. I'd never wondered about that I'd never considered why they were called the First Lady I just thought, wife. That's interesting. Yeah. Because I'd never wondered about that.

I'd never considered why they were called the First Lady. I just thought, yeah, oh, that's interesting. Well, to begin with, it was just that she was the First Lady because she was the matron of the political scene. But then it just got morphed into wife of president. Oh. Yeah. So there you go.

During this time, Taylor was often found to be taking walks in the city and greeting people. He was very much a people's man. However, when news reached the capital of a cholera epidemic heading towards them, Taylor decided to go on tour. Well, the Whigs decided he should go on tour. Yes, go. Flee. Flee for your life.

Put him in the carriage. Go now. Now, to be fair, perhaps this was not actually running away from the epidemic, because Peggy stayed behind and this was scheduled, but it could have been seen as him getting ahead of the illness.

That's how you'd spin it, wouldn't you? Yeah. Anyway, the plan was to take him to the major cities in the north and go up to Boston eventually. So this is an area of this country Taylor's not really ever been to before. Because he's from the west. He's from the west and he's gone down to the south and into Texas. But up north, no.

So he's going to go and find out what on earth is going on up there. Bloody cold up here. During the journey, Taylor, upon hearing reports of US citizens illegally setting off to invade Cuba... Yeah, this was mainly people from the South, expansionists looking to expand the slave states. And also people from other countries trying to get support from people in the South. Basically some illegal invasion going on. Taylor heard about this and ordered that the ports in New York and New Orleans be closed

just to stop that happening. It's not on, guys. We can't just invade whoever we want. That's my job as President, not yours. And the British Empire's job as well. Yes, exactly. Unfortunately for Taylor, shortly after this,

the diarrhea hit. Oh. Yeah. It hit hard. Oh. Oh, yeah diarrhea hit. Oh. Yeah. It hit hard. Oh. Oh, yeah. Taylor carried on. Oh.

He's a soldier. He just keeps going. Didn't even flinch. Just the sloppy sounds. Yeah. Half mid-speech. The smell just spreading out to the audience. He just emptied his boots every half a day.

The sound of somebody turning on a tap every now and again while he's speaking. So he tried to soldier on, basically. However, once he started shaking uncontrollably, he was advised to cut the trip short. Again,

you can see a lot of Whig politicians just wincing. What my god! What's he doing? What's wrong with him? Reluctantly, Taylor caught the train back to the capital, although it started to look quite bad. Peggy was sent for. Oh. Yeah, but then Taylor started to get a bit better, so another message was sent and Peggy turned around and went back to Washington. But yeah, he looked touch and go for a while. It was a bit of a scare, shall we say. Yeah.

But it's fine. He got better. Yes. And he headed back to the capital. Meanwhile, the issues of the day were being debated in Congress. Namely, what are we going to do with California and New Mexico now that we have them? And also, should they be territories? Should they become states?

Should they be slave states or free states? And in fact, slavery was becoming more and more of an issue. It didn't seem to matter what you were discussing at the time. It always seemed to come back to slavery. The South were pushing for a new Fugitive Slave Act that would mean that it became the duty of all citizens to report a fugitive slave. Really?

Yeah. Now, this effectively made every person in the country complicit in the slave trade. That's bad. Yeah, so even those that lived in free states who opposed slavery, if this act went through, it would then become their legal duty to report fugitive slaves. As you can imagine, there were some people unhappy about this. Couldn't get through, surely. We'll see.

Now, the first issue that Taylor had to deal with was California, although obviously all this overlaps, but we're trying to separate it out slightly. So it was whilst Taylor was still in Baton Rouge, in fact, that word came through of the discovery of gold, linking back to the start. So that happened. The territory was currently under military rule,

but just as Marshall predicted immediately once he first discovered the gold, the discovery of this gold changed everything. The population of California would soon explode as the gold rush started, and the area soon needed a real government. By the time Taylor was president, he made his views clear. California should become a state immediately. However, he also believed that it was up to Congress to decide this, so he did little to interfere with the proceedings.

He let his views be known, but that was about it. However, as ever, the slavery issue kept halting the proceedings. Now, the people of California California which was already numerous enough to actually enter the US as a state the population just overnight exploded. So they became a bit restless. They want a government. And Congress

is still taking its time. So they took matters into their own hands in California and they simply started up a state government. Yeah. Fair enough. We're star and whenever you're ready to give us the okay, it'll all be here and we'll just be able to continue. I'd appreciate that as a boss. That's very handy.

Thank you. Just keep it ticking over and we'll decide yes or no. Yeah, it's proactive. So once this was done, this somewhat illegal state government in California held a convention and it was unanimously decided that they should enter the Union as a free state. Ooh. Yes. None of the frontiersmen who had

set off to find their fortune wanted to be priced out of a job by incoming slaves. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like, we don't want slavery here. That's a good point. However, if they hoped this would help speed up the official recognition, they were hugely mistaken. Because obviously, by denouncing slavery, the pro-slavery

factions in Congress were now dead set against California being admitted. Calhoun, in fact, announced that California could only be considered if it was a slave state. So the stalemate continued and California was left to its own devices for a while. The biggest problem for Taylor was actually the New Mexico territory. Now that that had been taken away from Mexico, many in Texas simply assumed that the region belonged to them. Yeah, after all, Texas had disputed the area with Mexico before they joined the Union. So when Texas was an independent republic, they claimed the land of New Mexico. They've got this independent mentality, haven't they? Yes.

Still. Yeah. Well, Texas then joined the Union, as we saw. Then the United States had gained the land. And Texas went, thank you very much. United States will have that. However, in reality, this new region was under military rule, just like California, just after the war. And the generals were under the command of the federal government.

They weren't about to hand it over to Texas. Those that lived in the region of New Mexico, particularly in the city of Santa Fe, were not happy at all with the idea of Texas taking over. Yes, they were part of the US now, not Mexico. Great, that's fine. But we've kind of been fighting the Texans for quite some time now. We don't want them to rule us. And not only that, and this is important, the territory has been under Mexican

law. That means New Mexico no slavery. And if you now give us to the Texans, they will introduce slavery. And we don't want slavery here. Again, the local population, just like in California, did not want to see themselves priced out of the job market. Yeah, I mean, with slavery, obviously it's morally terrible.

But it also just stopped the amount of work you can have. It limits population size and lots of work. I'd love to say most objection to slavery was because people realised how morally reprehensible it was, but no, it was just economics. Obviously you got some who also realised it was awful, but for your average Joe, it was just a case of, I need work. And if slavery comes here, I won't have work.

Anyway, those in New Mexico petitioned the government to be included into the US as a separate territory. Please don't give us Texas. Fortunately for them, Taylor came down firmly on the New Mexico side. In fact, he even urged them to go straight for statehood. Skip the whole territory bit, just become a free state. Yeah. But again, Taylor hands off. Yeah. It was Congress that had to do this, and that was Taylor's belief. As you can imagine, Texas, not happy. The new governor secured permission from the state legislature to use force to claim the land. Really? Oh yeah. Bloody hell. However, this was a poor bluff. Texas had failed to get the region by force from the Mexican government. Now, if that's not possible, they were hardly

going to stand a chance against the United States government. So Texas didn't have the power to use force, but it was a show. Still, a group of Texan congressmen and their supporters met the president one day and threatened that Texas would leave the union if they were not given this land. And also, on top, if the proposed fugitive slave law did not go through. Like, yes, we wanted to join the United States, but we want it under these conditions. Taylor looked across the desk at them and said, and I quote, If it becomes necessary, he began,

I'll take command of the army myself, and if you are taken in rebellion against the Union, I'll hang you with less reluctance than I hang deserters and spies in Mexico. Oh, nice. Very nice. I imagine there was an awkward silence after that. Okay. Is that a no? And the servant coming from the sides to break up the silence. A piece of lemon cheesecake, anybody?

Yeah. Just as with California, a stalemate was reached in Congress. You've now got New Mexico and California as stalemate. And the issue is with both, slavery. I hope this situation doesn't get worse than this. I hope so too. Yeah. Now there was another land dispute going on at this time,

slightly less big than the others, but still fairly major, and that is Deseret, or Utah, as it became known. Utah. Yes. Because, not long before this, a group of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, had fled persecution in the East and set off for an area of Mexico with next to no population. They could live how they wanted to live.

Land of the free, bit of Mexico no one's using. Apart from the Mexicans. Next to a big lake. It's quite salty there. Salt Lake City. Yes, exactly. However, by the time they arrived and kind of set up, they looked around and realised,

oh, this isn't Mexico anymore. This is now America. The war's over. And this land's now been given to the United States. Damn. We're still in America. Damn. Let's continue south.

Oh, no. Well, they sent requests to be recognised. It's like they're far enough away from the east. It's a big country. They can live their life there. It's a big country. They can live their life there. So they sent a request. Yet again, however, this gets held up in Congress.

Slightly less to do with slavery, more to do with prejudice against Mormons of the time. But of course, if they're having that land officially recognised, will it be a slave state? Will it be a free state? Who gets to decide? Again, the question of slavery dominating everything. By the early 1850s, it was becoming clear that this debate around slavery was halting pretty much everything.

It's almost a shut-down government. Yeah. Which I argue stops at the present. Quite possibly. Now, the political landscape is complex, as I mentioned at the start. You've got Southern and Northern Whigs, and you've got Southern and Northern Democrats, and they all have different views. To highlight the complexity here, there is evidence of a Southern Democrat

from a slave state that wanted California to be free, because he had relatives, and one of those relatives was lined up to be a congressman for the new california wow okay yeah there was also a northern whig who was quite sympathetic to slavery because his business was kind of tied up into the slave trade slightly so he wasn't too fussed about slavery it's a backer business so it's not as cut and dry no as perhaps you'd expect it to be. But then again, despite these exceptions, the rough trend can be found that the further north and the further Whig you got, the more anti-slavery, the further south and Democrat, more pro-slavery, but with huge overlaps. So there is a basic north-south divide forming,

but it's not black and white. Yeah, exactly. A bit of a shade of grey in between. So, as there's this huge stalemate, you need someone to come in and sort it all out, don't you? Yes. Yes, you do. And who better than the great compromiser himself, Henry Clay?

Oh! Yes. Oh, he's got a job, finally. He attempts to once more negotiate a compromise, which he's been doing his whole political life, to a fair degree of success. So this is Clay's compromise. California will be admitted as a free state. The rest of the territory will remain territories. And they will then

decide for themselves whether they want to be free or slave upon entry at a future date. As you can imagine, lots of Northerners nodding their heads at the moment. If you suddenly go like, but that means they're just going to say no. Well, wait for it.

This is a compromise. Oh. Yes. To sweeten this for the pro-slavery faction, the US government would purchase the land they had just purchased

off Mexico off Texas as well. Which must have rubbed some people up the wrong way. So, we just bought this land from Mexico

and now we're going to buy New Mexico from Texas. Yeah, but that will cheer Texas up. It will stop them moaning. It must have been like a few minutes of, but we don't own it. Well, okay. Oh, okay. I've been saying we do, so be quiet. Yes, we agree.

Ten trillion dollars. So that was to please the Texans, but obviously that's not going to please everyone. So here's a couple more. The slave trade would be abolished. Huge intake gasp there. In the capital. So not in the country. In Washington, D.C.

Right. However, slavery was still legal. You could no longer buy and sell slaves, but you could own slaves in the capital. In D.C.? Yeah. Right. So, again, anti-slavery faction okay okay we have to pay for new mexico again but i suppose there's that again this still seems very pro anti-slavery

though doesn't it yes so there's one big concession for the pro-slavery faction and that is we all We all wear I heart slave patches. No, worse. The proposed Fugitive Slave Act would go through. Oh, where they, no. Enforcing all states by federal law to aid slavery. So if somebody comes into your country that's escaped slavery, you have to grasp them up. Yeah. As you can imagine,

the South hated the lack of expansion of the slave states, while the North hated the Fugitive Slave Act. So there's like a union on hatred. It's like with Brexit at the moment. Yes. Like, Leavers and Remainers hate the government. Yeah, it's something they bond over. There you go, you bring the countries together, fair enough. So yeah, debate on this compromise then opened up. Calhoun had the first thing to say.

Just slit a rabbit's throat and walked out. That was it. Not far off. He delivered his last ever speech. What? And in fact, he was too ill to present it himself. So he sat just murdering rabbits as someone else read it out. Pickerel bit, slit the throat, squeak. Pickerel bit, squeak.

Yeah. It was used as punctuation. And I will quote here. I have believed from the first that the subject of slavery would, if not prevented by some timely and effective measure, end in disunion. You compel us to infer that you

intend to exclude us from the whole of the acquired territories with the intention of destroying irrevocably the equilibrium between the two sections. Calhoun not happy. This is clearly a move against slavery. I mean, kind of is, but...

Yeah. It's a mild concession. Well, it's a big concession. That Futuristic Slave Act is a biggie. Yeah. Calhoun did speak in a further debate to warn that if the South was pushed on this, it could lead to a split in the Union. Yeah.

And then he dies. I never thought he'd say those words. Oh, yes. Tuberculosis. Shortly after this speech, at the age of 68 he was lowered into his volcano. For the final time.

Oh. I've never had such a fond feeling about such an evil my life. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the debate still raged on, however. At one point, two congressmen introduced two opposing bills. There was a man named Foote,

who proposed that Texas be given all the land that they claimed, and California remain a territory, not a state. He's the reason the phrase, Foote the Bill, came. Yes, yes he is. Proposing this was Benton's bill. We've met Benton before, although there's no reason why phrase foot the bill came. Yes, yes he is. Posing this was Benton's bill. We've met Benton before, although there's no reason why you'd remember him. He was one of the Benton brothers who had fought with Andrew Jackson in front of a hotel. Do you remember when there was a shootout and Andrew Jackson got hit in the shoulder? Yeah, this is one of the brothers.

Oh, okay. Yeah. If I remember correctly, I did mention that later in life they became more friendly and they joked about the fact that they'd shot him. Oh, yeah. Maybe Benson joked whilst Jackson stared. Maybe it's a one-way joke. Anyway, his bill was to accept California as a state and split Texas in two.

Ha! Take that, Texas. Cleave you in, Twain. The two men did not get on. No. Foote would often verbally abuse Benton in the Senate chamber. Like, day in, day out. It was getting bad. Ugly face!

Apparently, the Vice President, obviously, chairing this Millard film, was a bit horrified by what was going on, but couldn't really stop it. Imagine, like, Foot picking up a piece of cake, trying to go, oh Oh this cake tastes horrible. Reminds me of your sister. Yes. That is exactly what happened. Benton

eventually lost it. He stood up suddenly after one taunt from Foot and stormed towards the other senator. This is in the senate chamber. Foot realising he was about to be attacked, pulled out his pistol. Right. The whole chamber suddenly went still.

It's like, ooh. It's escalated quickly. Benton paused for a moment, then pulled his coat open and shouted, and I quote here, I have no pistols. Let him fire. Stand out of the way. Let the assassin fire. coat open and shouted, and I quote here, I have no pistols. Let him fire.

Stand out of the way. Let the assassin fire. Whilst walking towards him. Make him look like a coward. Yeah. Fortunately, the spell was broken by the shouting and everyone suddenly was able to act and they pulled the two men apart. Oh, benters were cool.

He's already face down Andrew Jackson. He's not going to... Good point, back down Andrew Jackson he's not going to he's not going to let this foot challenge him who's he exactly you fungus ridden sputum yes

that's just to highlight things were a bit tense in the senate at this time people were literally whipping out guns well at least the country's going to remain unified and they'll get through this. Well, as the debates continued, Taylor and Clay, who held similar beliefs and were part of the same

party, obviously, started to fall out. Taylor was not happy about the concessions of the Fugitive Slave Act. Many people weren't. Not only was the obvious objection about it, it was morally reprehensible,

the fact that it forced all in the country to be complicit in slavery is not a good thing, is it? No. But there's actually a more subtle problem which was perhaps even bigger.

It meant that for the first time ever, slavery would become a federal issue, not a state one. Ooh, yes. For all of the talk. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, the irony would not have been lost on many.

The pro-slavery South, who followed Cat O'Hoon's insistence that states should have rights above the federal government, were now pushing for the federal government to enforce slavery on other states. So, yeah, it just made it very clear that the whole states' rights thing was just a front. They just wanted to keep slavery so they could keep making money. Yeah. Yeah. You're really high on that set, isn't it? It really does, yeah.

Anyway. Oh, wow. Clay saw this as a compromise worth taking, however. Many of us did not. Shortly after this, Taylor left the White House to a building site just south of the White House. Like, you could see it. It's just over there. What are they building?

Well, after several decades and a few rejected designs, it was finally decided to build a monument to George Washington. It's the Lincoln Memorial. A lot of really effective forward planning going on in Washington at the time. Yeah. Oh! Is this the big towery thing?

Yeah, the big obelisk. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, the plan was to build the world's tallest building. Oh. An obelisk that would stand over 500 feet. Dolly Madison, when she was still alive, was helped by Louisa Adams, remember John Quincy Adams' wife, and Eliza Hamilton, Alexander Hamilton's

wife. Yes, she's still alive. Look, it's goodness me. Yeah, she's getting on now, but she's still alive. Those three had led the charge to raise funds for George Washington's memorial. Do you know you can walk up there with a staircase and stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's big. It's big.

Yeah, I watched, I can't remember what it was, I think it's about cleaning it. I can't remember on YouTube how they clean it. It's big. Yeah, I watched, I can't remember what it was. I think it's about cleaning it. I remember on YouTube how they clean it. It's way bigger than you'd expect. Yeah. Like, you think it's quite narrow, but actually it's like the width of a building. Yeah. Because it is.

It is. And it was. Eventually, once it was built, it takes a long time to build, as we will see. Funds get lost. It's still being built now it's just half an obelisk for like decades was it yeah um it takes a long time but it does eventually get built and when it is built it's the tallest building in the world for a few years until the eiffel tower takes over wow yeah anyway they obviously don't know all that because that's

the future yeah all they know right now is that there's a building site and one of the cornerstones was being put down. So they were going to have a celebration. Way. Taylor sat and listened to none other than Futt, in fact, give a speech on the importance of unity. Which apparently Taylor kind of gave a snarky remark about. You're talking about unity. After this, Taylor went for a walk

and he ate lots of cherries and apples and lots of ice cold milk. Which is nice. Straight from the cow. Frozen cows. Then he got back to the White House and he complained of a stomach upset. No!

Said all the wigs. No, quick! Get the antacids! Get the antacids! A doctor was called for. This appeared to be similar to what he'd suffered a year previously. With diarrhoea? Yeah, yeah, it's like that's coming back. They were unable to find exactly what the problem was. However, he was in a bad way. This isn't looking good. But not not to worry he's not the only one because the Secretary of State was also ill with the same thing as was Bliss who was taking it very well it's a lot of fruit

fortunately however you'll be very relieved to hear he starts to recover well the wig was just like oh thank goodness but then he suddenly gets a lot worse I quote I should not be surprised if this were to terminate in my death. No.

He was absolutely right. No! He died later that night. No! His last words being, I regret nothing, but I am sorry that I am about to leave my friends. Oh.

And there you go, he's dead. Is he in office? In office. Bloody hell! He's only been president for 18 months. Really? Yes. Oh, God. and there you go he's dead is he in office? in office bloody hell he's only been president for 18 months really? yes oh god

all the wigs just tear at their hair lots of them shouting at each other who's the vice president? who's the vice president? I mean it's horrible to be laughing to somebody's death but at the same time it's horrible to be laughing to somebody's death, but at the same time, it's hilarious. That's so funny. That's such a terrible party.

Should we wait him? Oh, I think we're going to have to, so I'll keep laughing. You all right there? Yeah, I'm fine. Just keep talking. I'll drop out of it. Okay, well, he wasn't president for very long, was he? So he didn't really contribute much.

And also he was brand new to politics, so... Yeah, yeah. It's not like we can use his previous experience. No. So there's not much to say in this round, but I did save a couple of little bits just so we had something to say. Thank you. So, one thing I've not mentioned is the Clayton-Bulwer Treaty.

Recently, talk had began about the possibility of a canal cutting through the continent. Oh, has this become the Panama? Eventually. Yes. Way down the line. Yeah, way, way down the line. Yeah. Central America got really quite thin in places, they noticed, after looking at a map.

It'd be easier to carry things from one side of the country to the other without having to go all the way around. Well, yeah, exactly. They just found gold in California, for instance. So it might be an idea if we can get over there a bit quicker. Yeah, so people started talking about the possibility of building a canal that cut through America. Of course, whoever managed to do this would make a lot of money. Britain and the US were, by this point, the two dominating naval powers in the area.

Yes. And the two largest trading centres, pretty much, in the world. America's done well. It's catching up quickly. So it looked very likely that it would be one of them that managed this first. However, obviously, it's not as easy as just building a canal, which is a huge task in itself. But there are slight problems that neither country owned the land in Central America.

Oh, by the way. Now, obviously, this has never stopped either Britain or recently America in the past. No. So there's some wranglings. We won't go into the ins and outs of all the negotiations between the US, Britain, and Nicaragua. But as you can imagine, the US and Britain either took land or tried to trick their opponents to try and come out on top here.

Britain doing its usual, well, we'll just take this bit, shall we? So you can't build through there. Eventually, however, a deal was signed between Britain and the US, where it said neither Britain or the US would ever obtain or maintain for itself any exclusive control over said ship canal. That neither would ever occupy, fortify, or colonise Nicaragua, Costa Rica, or any part of Central America.

These are big statements. These are big statements. Yeah. And it takes like 80 years for it to be completed, isn't it? Well, with both Britain and the US assured that the other side weren't going to rush into this, and it being a massive project, both sides just kind of called it a bit. It's like, okay, we want want one but it's hard but what we want more than a canal is for you

not to have a canal so if we both agree not to build the canal that will do for now and in the future maybe we'll get back to building one that's a really interesting story it's about 50 years in the future for Panama, the canal starts

to be built but it took numerous attempts and yellow fever and death. Yes, we will eventually get to it, like you say. But yeah, so this is the very, very starts of the Panama Canal here. Been through it. It's very, very nice. Oh, of course you have, yeah. So there's that.

That was one thing that happened during his presidency. He also put a stop to those illegal invasions of Cuba. These were led by men wanting to claim new land and to be supported by the American South. Cuba could become a new slave state. There was one man called Lopez from Venezuela who really wanted to get new land and wanted the South of America to support him in doing so.

So he went to the likes of Jefferson Davis, who we met last week, who was interested, but nah. Bigger fish to fry. So these illegal invasions of Cuba had started, and Taylor worked to put a stop to it, which is nice. But that said, when a group of US citizens were arrested by Spain for attempting to invade Cuba, Taylor worked to get them released. So he didn't abandon the citizens,

even though they'd gone against what he said. That's good. Yeah. We'll punish them ourselves. Yeah. But, I mean, that really is about all we can say. Apart from that, there's not much. There's very little bad about him,

but he didn't really get a chance to earn points in this round, did he? It's a bit like Harrison. He didn't have a chance. That's the thing. Yeah, but Harrison at least had a career in politics as well as an military career. He was the governor for a while and he did various political

posts. Ted has done nothing in that respect. There is one story that might lose him points, but to be fair, it is more about his cabinet than him. His cabinet was embroiled in a scandal. A legal dispute from before the Revolutionary War, so way back then, had been passed from legal pillar to post for several decades. To sum it up briefly, a man named Galfin was owned money by the Royal Crown

for his services in a land purchase against the Native Americans. Yeah, very dodgy. Then the Revolutionary War happened, and that debt got passed to the new Georgian Americans. Yeah, very dodgy. Then the Revolutionary War happened, and that debt got passed to the new Georgian government. But they had very little interest in paying this, so why do we want to pay this? It's our debt, though. Yeah, legally we now owe it,

but we're not that fussed about paying it, so the debt stuck around for decades, basically. The heirs of Gaufin hired none other than a man named Crawford to represent them. Now, Crawford was a lawyer who happened to become the Secretary of War under Taylor. Okay. And all of a sudden, once he was Secretary of War, the Galfins suddenly got their money. And half of their money, which was a lot, I mean, we're talking a fortune here, And half of their money, which was a lot, I mean, we're talking a fortune here,

half of that went straight to the War Secretary because he had acted as their legal aid. So you've got two members of Taylor's cabinet who had approved this and the money had gone to the third member of Taylor's cabinet. It looks a bit dodgy because it was a bit dodgy. It is dodgy, yeah. Can you blame him would he even if he knew about it which we can only assume um would he have he would have no say on it no um he didn't do him any favors no no but like you say yeah he apparently he did know little about this he certainly wasn't involved yeah um that is the only negatives that i could really find against him but also there's not really many positives in this round he was clearly a well-respected and

good general but does that really count as statesmanship i'm not really sure it does he laid the ground rules for something that will affect the future but we can't i don't think we can give too much praise for that we could we could praise it for foresightedness. Yeah, maybe. In terms of it may turn into something. We don't know yet. He wasn't awful, so I'm not going to go into the ones or the twos. No. But he also capitulated to the slavery thingy.

Yeah. Which is a biggie. And that compromise. And again, stop being a stalemate. You sort of have to give way a bit. But that's a neat, horrible thing to say. The compromise hasn to give way a bit, but that's a horrible thing to do. The compromise hasn't actually finished yet. Oh, that's true.

Maybe he suddenly dies. Everything I've mentioned today is still up in the air. That's a good point. Yeah. That's a good point. I'm going to go for three. I don't think he can get more points for this. I was thinking three.

It's not awful. He's not making the world a worse place, but he doesn't really do much. Okay, six. Disgrace gets. He was a slave owner. The last president to have slaves in the White House. Really? Oh, wow, that's interesting.

Yeah. In his short time as president, he was buying plantations as well as slaves. He did little to help end slavery, but in his defense, out of the slave-owning presidents, he was one of the better ones. At least he actively fought against the spread of slavery. Which is more than quite a few of the others. That's true, but I don't think he can celebrate that. Oh no, my point is, he shouldn't be given as high a mark as Jefferson. No.

Because he was overtly racist and loved slavery. Yeah. Yeah. So he certainly needs to score points for it, but he's more in the mould of a Washington. And that's about it. I mean, he liked to embarrass his subordinates by dressing up. Can we give him a point for that? I don't think so.

That's funny. His life seemed relatively squeaky clean. Yeah, pretty much. He seemed pretty part of the slave thing. But I mean, at the time, that wouldn't be unusual. He was a bit rough and ready around the edges. That's not disgraceful, though, is it? No, no.

People loved him for it. Oh, the funny story that we met was that the Navy guy, he's having a meeting and he dresses in his pop-ass gear. That was funny. Yeah, so... Hasn't zero, I would say. Oh, no, his pop-ass gear. That was funny. Yeah, so... Zero, I would say. Oh, no, you're forgetting the slavery. Oh, sorry.

Automatic three, then. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that as well. A baseline three for the slavery, which wipes out all his statesmanship. He's down to zero. Silver screen. Might be able to do a bit better here. Or will he?

So let's think. We've got his childhood moving west just after he was born remember the scary old woman who had no hair who used to scare the children yeah you can make a scene out of that that'd be great nice could be an episode yeah uh he he joins the army um after his dad the war stories uh there's a lot of illness and a lot of death in new york leans remember the hands poking out of the swamp? Oh, and the toilet roll legs. Yeah, exactly. Then he goes home.

He meets Peggy. Romance whilst he's on leave. That will make for some good TV. Yeah. The Fort Knox fight. Not the Fort Knox. I checked. Not the gold bullion place.

No. I subtly alluded to it at the end of the last episode by editing in a no to your Fort Knox. I noticed that. I did notice that, yeah. But, yeah, I did check. It is not the same Fort Knox, although they are quite close to each other. But, yeah, different one. Anyway, the Fort Knox fight where he was putting out the fires, literally, that's quite good.

I think a lot of dramatic deaths in his family as well. Daughters. Yes, you've got all the daughters dying. Heartbreak. The war in 1812 which he does fairly well in. The fighting, the Black Hawk War. He meets future presidents.

He meets Jefferson Davis. He meets U.C.'s S. Grant. That would be a big moment. Yeah, yeah. Goes down to Florida. Seminole War. You've got lots of... if you want to make a war film or a war band of brothers yeah if you want to do that you've got some nice yeah nice backdrops you've got fighting in a swamp yeah you've got fighting up a mountain um you've got fighting on on the plains mexican river you've got fighting in the desert you've got fighting on the plains. Mexican River. You've got fighting in the desert.

You've got fighting in lots of different things. Yeah. Yeah, so you've got all that going for it. And then there's the election, he becomes president and he dies. The journey there, maybe? I think although it wouldn't directly be related to him, the fighting in the battle and the intrigue between slavery, the build-up. Like the tension during that before the Civil War would be quite interesting. Yes.

Very tense. Who's a young politician at this time who you could frame all that around? Abe. Exactly. Yeah. You'd put it in his film. But in his version, you'd have him in the background. Yeah, yeah.

And you wouldn't mention him. You'd just have this young upstart going, blah, blah, blah. And suddenly, oh, what's your name? What's your name, lad? Yeah. My name's Abe Lincoln. And he'd lift his top hat and there's a bunny on his knife. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's why he wore it. Well, yeah. So, to know, I mean, Death by Milk and Cherries is a... It's a new one. It's a new one, isn't it? It is, yeah. It almost sounds sexy.

Yeah, being slightly flippant there. Apparently that's not what killed him. He got infected, but we're not sure how. Sounds like some sort of disease, like dysentery. Oh, it's TB, didn't you say? No, no, this wasn't TB. Oh, that was Calhoun, I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah.

It's probably some, yeah, some sort of flu good. Oh, that's Calhoun I'm thinking of. Yeah, yeah. It's probably some sort of viral... Something to do with the water not being clean. Dysentery. Yeah, it's not... Yeah, something went wrong, basically. And he was getting on in years. He's late six, isn't he? So I don't know. It's...

I think five. A nice average five for me. I don't know. I might go to six because you've got quite a decent story, but it does get a bit repetitive. It's like fight here, fight here, fight here, fight here, done. Oh, you've got all the scenes of him dressed up as an old man. Six. Six each.

Yeah. Okay, then that is 12. Conversability. Okay. Do you want to see what he looked like? This is his official portrait. Did he have long hair? No.

Not long hair. Not buzz cut. Yeah. 80s action, not any film style. Bearing in mind he hated wearing a uniform, I'm sure he was not pleased that this became his official portrait. There he is. He looks like someone. He looks like an English actor. I forgot his name. Does he? I'm not sure

who you mean. He's in like 80s and 70s like sitcoms and things. He's got a big sloping nose isn't he? Yeah. Roman nose. Very long and straight nose. That's a man that's seen war. He's probably about 20 in this photograph. But it's interesting because the background is the first time we've seen outdoor. Yeah, that's a good point. Desert. Yeah, it's a desert-y, it's that edge of a Mexican city behind him there. Frontierland.

Yeah, it very much seems to be showing him in the Mexican war, doesn't it? Carrying a sword as well. Defender, fighter, warrior. He's got a sword. He's got his uniform. It's a celebration of that. It's just saying, look what I was. After the last few that have all been quite samey, I must admit, I quite like it.

Yeah, actually, it really stands out. But I love that we're still wearing a necktie. Yes, yes, it is. Yeah, almost like he could pull off that uniform coat and underneath he's wearing a tux. Yes, yes. Yeah. Bond style. Yes.

Actually, I'm quite impressed with that. I quite like it. I like the subliminal messages. I like the, well, the overt message that this is. Yes, it's... He is a soldier. Yeah. He has fought.

He will defend. He will kill you with his sword if he thinks you... Because, yeah, even back then, they still, in a way, would have fought with swords as well. They carried swords, wouldn't they? Ceremonial ones, the generals, certainly, yeah. Remember, he was fishing his sword out when he had that meeting. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. He's like, get the ceremonial sword out. I'm quite impressed with that. Yeah, I quite like it. I don't think it's top-tier marks. I think it's the most interesting i've seen i'm around seven or eight though i i'm thinking eight i'm going for eight you're going for eight i'm gonna go and go for seven i'm slightly biased because i know what they all look like and there

are some in the future that i really like and i don't want to give away the top tier but then again i've got a nine and a ten to go no i'll go for eight i will i'll go for it no go over the field don't worry about the future go with with what feels right. I worry about the immediate future where we need to divide the score by 8. So if I go for 8 as well, it makes it nice and easy. 60 things to add. That's a 4 for canvas ability. Bonus! Oh dear, he does not do too well here.

That's insane. Terms, 0. He didn't last a term. Assassination, 0. He's a soldier, technically. Yeah, zero. Not as cut and dry as you think. There was a rumour that he was assassinated by pro-slavery Southerners.

Assassinated? Assassinated. Yeah, he was poisoned. This rumour was so strong that in the 1980s, his body was exhumed. They actually dug him up and they did some tests on his bones. Wow. They found no evidence of arsenic or any other poison. However, since then, there has been some debate over the testing used.

It's not vigorous enough, and it should be retested. But, I mean, we're on the fringes of theories now, the conspiracy theory region. But that's what it would have been at the time, though, because, you know, you got your high support saying, oh, we must have been assassinated because of this. Yeah. Rather than, you probably just got ill. Well, yeah. I mean, as we can easily see, there were other people getting ill with this at the time.

And he'd been ill with this a year before. He just died. He was getting on in years as well. He just died. He was getting on in years as well. So it's the closest we've got to giving a point in this one, apart from obviously Jackson, who scored one point. Because he did try and kill him. But yeah, so there we go.

But it's still a zero, unfortunately. And election, one point. He won the Electoral College, but not by a landslide. 56%. So that gives him a total score of 17 points. It's not great. No. But he's not in minus numbers, so it's not the worst. Yeah, it could be a lot worse.

So, that puts him ahead, obviously, of Tyler, who scored minus points. He's ahead of Harrison, who scored 14. He's ahead of Jackson, who scored 14. He's ahead of Jackson, who scored 12.5. But he doesn't quite beat Van Buren, who got 17.25. He was a politician, though, wasn't he? He was a politician. There you go. A 17.

Not an awful score, but certainly not great. There's a reason why he's lumped in with those fairly forgettable presidents, I think. I think he's more than forgettable. No. There's a reason why he's lumped in with those fairly forgettable presidents, I think. I think he's more than forgettable. No, hang on. Less than forgettable. Less than forgettable, yes. Do you think he's an

American or American't, though? Ah, well... American or American't? Uh, no. No, you're not giving this? No. I don't personally feel like he should. Service to the country his whole life? Yeah, but any president does that. Yeah, you're not giving this? No. I don't personally feel like he should. Service to the country his whole life? Yeah, but any president does that. Yeah, I suppose so.

Yeah, you're right. You can't give it to him. It's been a good one to look at, though. I have enjoyed it. He's been very interesting. Yeah. Surprised me how interesting it was. Make the most of that.

Because who's the president next? Tyler? No, Buchanan. it's either buchanan or no buchanan's coming up grant what happens when the president dies oh vice president and who was the vice president oh yeah i didn't tell you to box him because i knew it would give it away no of course well done don't no don't tell me it It's here somewhere. Wrong, wrong, wrong actually. I didn't even write his name down, so I didn't care so much. The vice president was Millard Fillmore. Oh, President Fillmore. Yes.

Of course. Of course. Yeah, I've already started the research. Oh dear. Yeah. We'll see how he does. Excellent. But that is next time. Oh, I get it now. Sorry, someone put a joke on Twitter

that I've only just got. It was a joke. What? Although I knew it probably wasn't true anyway, because I put the recording today. Yeah, just four terms. He didn't do four terms. He didn't do four terms.

They lied to you, Jamie. The Twitters lied to you. Sorry. I was very dramatic about that. Thank lied to you, Jamie. The Twitters lied to you. Sorry. I was very dramatic about that. Thank you very much for listening. Don't forget you can download us on Podbean and iTunes. And please follow us on Facebook and Twitter. And also, say what you thought of the episodes.

You know, leave us a review. Good or bad. Hopefully good. And that, you know, puts our ranking ranking doesn't it on iTunes ironically the better rankings we have the more people will listen

which we want we want to share the knowledge we love history yes yes we do thank you for listening and all that needs

to be said is goodbye goodbye Okay, Joe, let's sort out this itinerary then. Okay, Philippe. I'm getting ever so nervous. I don't blame you. What if he dies? Well, the last one did.

I know. He lasted barely a month. Anyway, it's our job to keep the man safe. So, what's on the agenda today? Well, today they're laying the keystone for the Washington Monument. Stone? Yes, stone. Stone's

very hard. How close to the stone is he going to get? Oh my god, I haven't even considered. Um, well, we'll put a four-foot perimeter around the outside. Could we coat the stone with anything? Something soft? Cushions? Cushions.

Cushions. Okay, and in touch with a mason, he'll round the edges off to make it less sharp. Wonderful, wonderful. And you know those guards that you put in front of the fireplace? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Put those round as well.

Not spiky ones? No, no, no. Soft ones. Soft guards. Soft guards. Yes. So, right. So once he's there, four foot away, rounded corners.

Standing on the grass. Grass? Yes, the very soft grass. Blades of grass! Oh, oh God, no, no. Don't worry, it's not real blades. We'll give him thick shoes today. Okay, as long as you're sure.

Platforms. Platforms. Platforms? The height. Height man. God. No, as long as you're sure. It was a great... Platforms. Platforms. Platforms? The height. Height man. Oh, God. No, no, no. Right.

Slippers. Big, fluffy slippers. With knee pads. With knee pads. We don't want to repeat it last Thursday. What's on the Itinerary for the day?

Right, so once he's there, he'll... It says here he's going to sit down. Oh, my... What on? It doesn't even say. Who is even writing this up.

Splinters? There could be splinters. Metal poisoning. Cushions. More cushions. Lots of cushions. We're over-order on cushions today, right. So he'll sit on a cushion on whatever type of chair it is and then he's got to listen to a speech by Senator Foot. He's the

madman with the gun. Can we cut his speech by Senator Foot. He's the madman with the gun. Can we cut his speech down? Okay, let me quickly rewrite something. Okay, try this. Hello, George was a top chap. Thanks. That should do. I don't think anyone could get angry at that.

Nope, you can't, unless you hate George. No one hates George. Fantastic, right, okay. I don't love George. So, that is, walk in the slippers over the plates of grass, sit with the cushion on the nondescript chair, four foot away from the smooth stone, and listen to the paragraph, sentence, clause.

Well, I think after that he could probably go out for his walk. Yes. What do you say? Stick to the usual plan. And it says here, cherries and milk. Sounds fine. Lovely. Another job well done.