American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 18.2 Ulysses S Grant

Episode Date: August 10, 2019

AUDIO: It would seem Jamie's mic dropped out during recording resulting in him seemingly recording his part from a small tin box. I've done the best i can to boost he volume, but I'm afraid he is a bit quiet throughout.  Grant has won the civil war for the US, but now the peace needs to be won - and that apparently is a lot harder job. Surrounded by corrupt businessmen politicians, Grant wants to use his presidency to make the country a better place. But unfortunately the real world gets in the way...

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Ulysses and Scranton. Part 2. Hello and welcome to American Presidents. They tell us to rank him. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump. And this is episode 18.2, Ulysses S. Grant. Part 2. Numero duo. Yes, as he used to say.

Yes. So here we are, part 2 of Ulysses. Yeah. He seemed like a doer. Yes, he did, didn't he? to say. Yes. So here we are, part two of Ulysses. Yeah. He seemed like a doer. Yes, he did, didn't he? Definitely a doer. Yeah. Bit of a fighter.

Yeah. Got a third word there? Nope. Nope. That's about it. Doer and a fighter. Okay. Well, we'll see if he doos any fights whilst he's president, shall we?

Yeah. Okay, let's start this episode. With green. Okay, green, start this episode. With green. Okay, green, that could work. Red. Yeah, thanks. Aquamarine. That's harder.

I'm brown. We're starting with brown. All right, okay. Yeah, and it sort of stops being blurry, and then you realise you're looking at a wooden wall panelling. Nice. Yeah, and then it pans over slightly. You realise you're on a porch and there is an old man

with a small grey beard covered in blankets. He's sat in a wicker chair. He's got a woolly hat on and he's writing something. Nice little scene. Yeah, what's he writing? Well, you hear a voice of a woman just off camera saying Ulysses, it's cold

out, why don't you come in? Cold be damned, says he. Well, Grant looks up. He goes to answer, but a cough suddenly hits him. Cough. Cough. Cough. Yeah. He rubs his throat and he winces. Ow.

Oh, sore throat. Yeah. Then he says something along the lines of in a minute, I'm just finishing this section. And then, stay on him. And then the voiceover comes in. And it's Grant. And he's writing. And through the trickery of film,

you can see what he's writing. Because, although you can't see what he's writing, he's like saying the words that's being written. Oh, so annoying people do that. Yeah, that's why I stopped doing it. I take my notes when I'm recording. Oh, no, he's not saying it out loud. Like a voiceover.

It's a voiceover, James. Like in his head, I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. So the audience can hear what's being written without the need to read the writing. It's clever. Clever stuff. Revolutionary, this one is.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the voice says, It was that very evening that news reached me that Lincoln had been killed. What? Yeah. The president? The president.

What the hell? And then fade slowly to black to indicate the passage of time. Maybe even add in a wibbly doodly doodly doodly. A TikTok noise in the background and a clock spinning yes calendars

just being thrown against a wall or something yeah so there you go Graham don't ruin those calendars we're here to sell them there you go that's the opening of today's episode good

not that dramatic but it's not it's not dramatic at all but we'll come back to that scene later yeah he dies after that, doesn't he? Oh, yes. Yeah, within days.

Oh. Yeah. Sore throat, that's a shame. Yeah. Anyway, here we go then. As he was writing in his memoirs, Lincoln is dead. He's been dead for quite a while. Yeah, sorry, spoilers here.

Yeah. Shocking. As we saw in Johnson's episode, Lincoln was not the only target for this assassination attempt. No. Yeah, if you remember, Seward had been attacked and Johnson had been a near miss himself. Yes. However, many believe that Grant was also a target. Because if you remember, he had, until close to the event,

been due to go to the theatre with Lincoln. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Partly because Julia, Grant's wife, couldn't stand Mary, Lincoln's wife, they decided not to go. Oh. Yeah, and they went to Philadelphia instead. Obviously one of those in the evenings,

shall we go to the theatre? Shall we go to Philadelphia? Yeah, Philadelphia, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. So off they went. It was the War Secretary Stanton who notified Grant that the President was dead. Julia asked her husband if this meant that Johnson was now in charge. Grant replied, and I quote here,

Yes, and for some reason I dread the change. And then foreboding lightning hit the background. Yeah, someone wobbling a wobble board. Yeah. Oh dear. This story is recounted by Julia years later, so perhaps she was just distancing her husband from Andrew Johnson. Yeah.

Yeah, we don't really know, but apparently that's what he said. However, it is fair to say that Grant and Johnson did not get on. Grant thought, somewhat ironically, that Johnson would be too harsh on the self. Yeah. Fearing that Johnson had a too harsh on the South. Yeah. Fearing that Johnson had a vindictive streak in him and he'd just go all out on the South and the country wouldn't heal.

Oh, dear. Yeah. Got that wrong, didn't he? Yeah. Anyway, soon enough, the two men were meeting. Johnson had to decide what to do with the Southern generals that they had captured recently. Because remember, the war has only just ended.

It's five days between Lee giving up and Lincoln being assassinated. Wow. Yeah, so they've got a lot to organise. Grant met the new president to inform him that Lee could not be charged with treason. Grant had given his word, and the word of the United States when Lee surrendered.

As long as the southern men captured did not violate their paroles, they could not be arrested. Grant was very blunt at this point with the President. In fact, he assured Johnson that he would resign if Johnson forced Grant's hand on this.

So, the matter was dropped. Johnson realising he don't want to lose the support of the war hero. No. No. And then, I mean, the war is over. Grant and his family have a bit of a rest. Oh. Yeah. They toured the North East and the Mid West.

Grant popped into West Point at one point. It was old school. Where General Scott, yes, that's right, he's still alive. Wow. Yeah. But only just. He died shortly afterwards. Yeah.

General Scott gave Grant a book of memoirs and inscribed it with, from the oldest general to the greatest. Oh. That's nice. But that made Grant go, oh, yeah, I'm the greatest. Though whilst That's nice. But that made Grant go, oh yeah, I'm the greatest. Now whilst he was going on a tour, he was often called upon to give speeches to which he would awkwardly bow and then wave and then walk off stage.

Uh, uh, uh, meh. Go USA. USA. Yeah, he wasn't a speaker. Aww. He wasn't. But again, this didn't harm his image. He was wasn't a speaker. Aw. He wasn't. But again, this didn't harm his image. He was seen as a man of action.

Like you said, he was a doer. He was. He wasn't a politician wasting time on words. Hell no. He's got wars to win. Hell yes. Well, he's already won the war, but there's probably others. So then Grant got on with his job,

which, of course, is to be the General-in-Chief of the United States Army. And it's about this point that Johnson started to show his true colours. As we saw in his episode, people started to realise that Johnson was far more in favour of white rebels than black loyalists. His full-blown racism started to come to the fore. The issue of black votes came up, and as we saw, Johnson started the process welcoming states back without them having to commit to black suffrage. Brilliant.

Yeah. What a guy. Well, Grant wasn't too sure about all this. What did we fight the war for? What's going on? But he was civil to Johnson. I mean, they had to work together. But things were slightly tense.

And after all, Johnson knew that he needed the war hero on his side, or he'd take a pit politically. Yeah, many Republicans were starting to doubt the President's ability to heal the country. And it would look terrible if Grant was obviously against him, so

keep him sweet. For now, things were fine. Now, upon hearing some troubling stories from the South about some unrest, something about someone being killed, a few people being killed. Oh. Yeah. Systematic terrorism, something like that. Yeah. Johnson decided maybe he should send someone down to go on a fat-finding mission.

And who better than Grant? Oh, you're free, aren't you? Yeah, there's no war on at the moment. Off you go. And this way, it looked like Grant was doing Johnson's bidding. Yeah, ooh, yeah. Yeah. Two birds in one stone.

Exactly. So off Grant went down south just to see what was going on. He was treated very well by men who he was fighting not too long ago. He wrote his report stating that south was indeed mostly under control. The army should probably stay for a while longer just in case, but things are all right. This angered many radical Republicans, including Lincoln's friend Sumner. I mean, were the many, many reports of lynchings, terrorism and murder just made up then, was it, Grant?

I didn't see any. Yeah, this was a very soft report. Yeah. Yeah. Later, Grant was indeed criticised for this report because it painted a far too optimistic picture of the situation itself. And Grant himself would later disvow it, saying, yeah, I got that wrong. Whoops.

They were very polite. I mean, the report did contain some things that Johnson didn't like. For example, if you remember, there was push in Congress for a bill that gave freedmen land so they could get self-sufficient. And Johnson didn't want any of that for reasons, racist reasons. Yeah. Yeah, well, Grant in this report said that that would be a good idea, actually,

because it's more likely that things would just be able to settle quicker. So Johnson wasn't too happy with that. But apart from this, Johnson was able to use the report as an example of support from the hero of the war. Even Grant says the South is doing okay, so my policies must be going well.

Now, as we've seen, the fight between the executive branch and Congress started up. Johnson started using Grant whenever he could to just shore up his image, basically. If he was going out, call up Grant. Get him to come with me. Get him to stand just to the right

of me when I'm giving my speeches and stuff. Make him smile. Yeah, exactly. And in fact, when Johnson decided to go on his tour, he took Grant with him. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, as well as a couple of others high up, like the Chief Admiral and stuff. But yeah, come along on this tour,

and I'll give some speeches. Now, if you remember, this is the Swing Around the Circle tour that we talked about in Johnson's episode. Weird name, but yes. Yeah, this was where he made a bit of a show of himself to Johnson. People heckled him, and he just argued back and just came across as a bit of a bully, a bit nasty. He was like that, wasn't he?

He was a bit of a harsh debater. Yes, he was a harsh debater. And just pounds it out. Yes, exactly. Yeah, Johnson definitely did more harm than good on this tour. One of the worst outcomes for him was that Grant became disgusted with the president. Really?

Yeah, I mean, he's there whilst Johnson's giving these nasty, bitter speeches. And Grant doesn't like what he hears. And another thing about your face. Yeah, it's a bit like that. Oh, Johnson. Well, Grant called the speeches, and I quote here, a national disgrace.

Oh dear. Yeah. The man clearly was a bully who openly hated black people and seemed to be working towards reverting all changes that had been made. And basically go back to the pre-war days. Yeah. Someone who had to fight through every step of the war.

Grant didn't like that. No? No. Now, like Lincoln, Grant had not started the war thinking. Yeah. Someone who had to fight through every step of the war. Grant didn't like that. No. No. Now, like Lincoln, Grant had not started the war thinking about slavery, as we saw last episode. It wasn't really on Grant's radar. No. But, like Lincoln, Grant had come to see the ending of slavery as essential to saving the country. As long as

there was slavery, the war would be close by. Yeah. The country would always tear itself apart over this issue. So it needed to be got rid of. Yeah. So Grant starts sympathising with the radical camp of the Republicans. Although he was still wary of some. He didn't get on with Sumner at all. Sumner was a bit too pompous, a bit too well-spoken for the more rough and ready Grant. Ah, hello Grant. What? Yeah, it was a bit like that-spoken for the more rough-and-ready Grant. Ah, hello, Grant. What? Yeah, it was a bit like that.

F*** off. Not quite. In fact, Grant despised profanity. Really? Yes, he really did. He did not like anyone swearing in his presence. F***. I know, that's what people would say.

Just before he struck them. Now, despite his shift in political views and his personal views on the president, Grant carried on with his job. I mean, he wasn't about to quit. So Congress, seeing Grant as an ally, overturned Johnson's veto and split the South into five military districts. And this included a bill that protected Grant's position. So Congress were giving Grant more power. Grant now had control over the southern territories. And this is when relationships between

Grant and Johnson really start to fall apart. The previous year, Grant had received a report from General Sheridan, who was overseeing Texas and Louisiana. The two were combined, and he was looking after it. There'd been some civil unrest

in New Orleans, apparently. A white mob had broken up the Constitutional Convention taking place, and 34 black men had been killed. In fact, I'll quote Sheridan here. The more information I obtain of the affair of the 30th in this city, the more revolting it becomes.

It was no riot. It was an absolute massacre. Yeah, men had been chased out of windows, through streets, the more revolting it becomes. It was no riot. It was an absolute massacre. Oh dear. Yeah, men had been chased out of windows, through streets. These men were repeatedly stabbed, bludgeoned with bricks, shot over and over again, and just generally mutilated in the streets.

This was gruesome stuff. Sheridan had conducted an inquiry and found that this wasn't a random mob act. The rioters were tacitly supported by the democratic powers of the city. So, Sheridan used his powers to dismiss the mayor of the city, and the attorney general,

and the district judge, and then the governor of the area itself, for being, and I quote here, a political trickster and a dishonest man. Yeah. Yeah. Johnson was furious. How dare Sheridan do this? Those were upstanding citizens

of Louisiana. Yeah. How terrible. Yeah. Awful. He just went too far. In fact, I'll quote Johnson here, his rule has, in fact, been one of absolute tyranny without references to the principles of our government or the nature of our free institutions. One what?

So, Johnson insisted that Grant fire Sheridan, which Grant did. Oh. But under protest, he was not happy about this at all. In fact, he protested so much that the Navy Secretary, Wells, spoke to the President. Now, we have come across Wells before, Welles spoke to the president. Now, we have come across Welles before, because Welles is the one that Johnson forgot the name

of during his drunken speech. Oh, yes, yeah. That man over there. Well, apparently, Welles had not held this against Johnson and had become a loyal supporter of the president. Probably thought it was hilarious. Maybe.

Anyway, Welliles went to Johnson and warned him that Grant was, and I quote, going over. Ooh. Yeah. Johnson replied, and again I quote, Yes, I'm aware of it.

I have no doubt that most of these offensive measures have emanated from the War Department. In other words, Johnson, realising that Grant was turning against him, blamed the current War Secretary,ising that Grant was turning against him, blamed the current War Secretary Stanton for plotting against him and decided to suspend Stanton. Should start ringing a bell here. Johnson, still needing to look like Grant was on his side publicly, he needs that support, put Grant in as acting War Secretary while Stanton was suspended.

As we saw in Johnson's episode, the Senate concluded that the war secretary could not be fired. Johnson didn't have the right to do so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Grant went to the president to state that he was no longer comfortable being the acting war secretary as the real war secretary had a legal right to do the job. And he's not leaving his office, sir.

He's just stubbornly there. He's glued himself to the desk. It's awful. He hasn't eaten in days. It's not going to much work, to be said. Well, Grant was, in fact, worried about legal repercussions here. Yeah. Someone could sue him over this.

Yeah, he doesn't want to go down if Johnson's going down. And Grant, I mean, he's not poor, but he's not like some of these rich folk around Washington who can afford legal battles to go on for years. So he starts getting a little bit worried about this. Johnson stated, no, no, it's fine, Grant. In fact, I will personally pay for any of your legal troubles, but you need to stay as the war secretary.

Okay. Grant wasn't too sure about this. Pulled a couple of I'm not too sure about this faces. Yeah, made that noise. Yeah. So Johnson said go away and think about it over the weekend. We'll discuss it on Monday. Grant did go away and think about it.

In fact, he thought he should probably quit. So he quit, giving Johnson absolutely no warning whatsoever. Wonderful. He did, however, attend the next cabinet meeting. Oh. Because Johnson asked him to be there. He tore Grant what can only be described as a new one. But Grant simply stated that he was

simply following the law. He was no longer the war secretary the moment that Congress had decided that Stanton could not be suspended. What am I supposed to do? You can't just ignore Congress, even if you are the president. Checks and balances, huh? Exactly, yeah.

It's important that it's there. Johnson, fed up by this point, as we saw, fired Stanton immediately. And the impeachment proceedings started up that we covered in his episode. Now, by this point point there was already a growing large movement of supporters behind the idea of Grant becoming the next president. Yeah. It just made sense. No one wanted Johnson in the first

place. Who was he? But the war hero Lincoln's successor. That's who he is. Yeah. Lincoln's beard. Exactly. We've never had a beard before. Oh no, Lincoln had a beard, didn't he? Yeah, not real. It's not a real beard, is it? That weird thing. Chin strap-y thing.

Yeah. That was, in fact, just a chin strap to keep his top out. Not many people realise that. Cool. Yeah. Furry one. Yeah. Yeah, Grant himself seemed receptive to the idea.

Me? Moi? El presidente? He thought. I used to say that to himself in front of the mirror each morning. Perhaps his smile is, uh, oh, no, I couldn't possibly.

And perhaps his speech, well, if you insist. He'd get a piece of paper and roll it up so it was a tube and put it on his head pretending to be a top hat. Oh, yeah. As your 18th president, I feel it's important to... Well, the reason why he was receptive

was because he looked around at all these compromising politicians in Washington and was angered at what they were doing. After all, he had seen countless men die during the war. And what was it all for if they weren't going to achieve anything afterwards? Her. Absolutely nothing. Well, I'll quote Grant here. I was forced into this in spite of myself. Backing down would leave the election to be contested between mere trading politicians,

the elevation of whom, no matter which party won, would lose us largely the results of the costly war which we have just gone through. That is important, having somebody in charge of things that understands, look, we fought the war for this, we won the war for this, this now needs to happen. Yeah. Sure enough, Grant was nominated by the Republican Convention. Grant didn't campaign. We're still not seeing campaigning. He and Julia instead went on a tour of the country to see the sights.

And if people happen to see him touring the country and cheer and talk about him, then so be it. Oh, there's Grant, he could be president. Oh, who said that? Who said that? Again, they visited West Point, where little Frederick was now enrolled. Not so little anymore. But yeah, his son's

now... Six foot eight. Yes. His son's now in West Point, and that must be tricky. Being in West Point, being the son of E.C.'s Grant. Oh yeah. Yeah. Big shoes to fill. Or just really cushy, depending. Oh yeah, probably cushy, to be honest. Anyway, sure enough, the election went

smoothly. Although there was one weakness that the Democrats were able to use. Grant was attacked for an order that he had given during the war. Now, if you remember last episode, I did mention that he did a couple of dubious things during the war. His record was certainly not perfect, but I said we'll cover that next time.

Yeah. Well, here we are. It's next time. Wonderful. Because in December of 1862, the North were making progress in the West against the South. However, there was a problem within the Union ranks linked to the black market in cotton. Cotton black market. Yes.

Well, despite the war, the North and the South were still trading cotton. The North needed cotton because they didn't have any themselves. And the South needed to sell cotton because they needed the money. That's ridiculous. Yeah. That's absolutely ridiculous. This was a reduced trade than normal, obviously. It was bare essentials.

But the trade was there. But obviously it was very heavily regulated by the army. Many traders, frustrated at seeing their trade just decimated by the war, started to sell cotton illegally. Corruption started to spread like wildfire through the Union camps. In fact, I'll quote someone who was present

at the time, every colonel, captain or quartermaster was in a secret partnership with some operator in cotton. So, no one was going through the proper channels. Grant soon was being reprimanded by the War Department for letting this happen under his watch. What's going on over there?

Everyone's corrupt. We're hearing all sorts of reports. So Grant decided to do something about it. What do you do? Legalise it? No. Oh, kill everyone that ever did anything black market-y? No. Arrest them all that ever did anything black marketing? No.

Arrest them all. You're getting closer. Let's look at history, shall we, and what history teaches us. Who do you blame if you've got a problem in your country? Oh, the minorities. The minorities. It's just who always gets the blame. However, there's always a slight twist.

If you've got a problem and it's also linked to finances, which particular minority do you go after? No, not Jewish. Grant sent an order, and I'll quote it here. Refuse all permits that come south of Jackson for the present. The Israelites especially should be kept out. Oh dear. Yeah.

Later, this was formalised as General Order 11. And I'll quote the General Order. The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also Department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department of Tennessee within 24 hours from the receipt of this order. Wow. Yeah, this is full-on chuck the Jews out of Tennessee. Ooh. Like I said, slight blemish on his record. Yeah.

Yeah. Then Grant went back to planning his attack on Vicksburg. He was a busy man. He had stuff to do. Yeah. However, this order set a snowball in motion, as you can imagine. Some Jewish officers resigned in protest. What the hell is that?

Can I be here? I'm Jewish. Shall I go home? Yeah. The order was noticed in Washington, and the Democrats used it to attack the Republicans, understandably. A delegation soon arrived in Washington to protest to Lincoln. Lincoln found out about the order, therefore, and was horrified. What on earth is

this? He ordered the current general-in-chief to order Grant to rescind his order. And I'll quote here, a paper purporting to be General Orders No. 11, issued by you December 17th, has been presented here. By its terms, it expels all Jews from your department. If such an order has been issued, it will immediately be revoked. P.S. What the hell? Yeah. Grant revoked the order on January 17th. So, pretty much straight away. Now, catching us back up to the election here,

this was used to attack Grant during the election. Good. Yeah. Grant sought to distance himself from the order, stating that the order had been drafted by a subordinate and that he had not read it properly before signing. You should always read before you sign. Yeah.

He then wrote, and I'll quote Grant here, I do not pretend to sustain the order. At the time of its publication, I was incensed by a reprimand received from Washington for permitting acts which Jews within my lines were engaged in. The order was issued and sent without any reflection and without thinking of the Jews as a set or race to themselves, Right. Apparently, this, let's be blunt here, pathetically flimsy excuse, was accepted at the time.

Really? Yeah, not just by most of the population, which you might kind of accept, but actually by the Jewish population as well. Oh, of course, fair enough. Things like that happen, I guess. Well, when he won the election, if you look at the breakdown of votes,

apparently most Jews voted for Grant. So they kind of forgave him for it. So yeah, that happened. Oh dear. Yeah. Anyway, there was no doubt that the hero of the war was going to win. And sure enough, Grant won the election. 214 seats to 80 in the Electoral College.

Bit of a landslide. It was. However, it was actually a lot closer than most thought it would be. Because he'd only won 52.7% of the popular vote. Ooh. Well, in fact, many pointed out that it was likely that Grant would have lost the popular vote if the 400,000 black men now allowed to vote had not been there. Ooh.

Yeah. Although, it should be pointed out, either way, he would have won the electoral college. So whether the black men had suffrage or not, it wouldn't have made a difference. But the results troubled some. Everyone's expecting this to be a lot more cut and dry than it was, and it wasn't. But still, he does win, and Grant becomes the youngest president so far at the age of 46. He's quite young, isn't he? Yeah.

Grant gave his inaugural speech, which went down very well. But he didn't give speeches? No. He was on stage, there was a clap, he just walked off. That was it. No, well, he did actually.

Grant was very good at writing by this point in his life. Although he was obsessed with maths earlier on in life, he'd actually developed a love of writing as he grew older. Okay. And when it came to formal speeches, which he wrote himself,

he actually was quite good. So when the occasion demanded it, he actually could pull it out the bag. All right. Yeah, so no, he did give a speech and it went down well. What about oratory? Oratory skills? Yeah. It was great writing it. You didn't need oratory skills back then.

No one could hear a damn word you were saying anyway. That's true. And I pledge to thee, you can't hear a damn thing I'm saying, can you? I hope you all enjoy reading this in the newspapers tomorrow. I best figure out what it's going to say. Who likes cheese? Don't put your hand up if you smell.

You all smell. An idiot says what? Yeah, it was very much like that. Brilliant. But according to the newspapers the next day, this is what he talked about. He talked about the 15th Amendment and the need to be ratified

so black men could vote. Suffrage for everyone, apart from the women, obviously. That'd be crazy. But yeah. After all, membership to the United States was not defined by race or religion. It never had been.

So all people should be able to vote. He also called for the proper treatment of, and I quote here, the original occupants of the land. Oh. Yes. It's about time that we did something about the fact that we're awful to the Native Americans.

That's essentially what he said. Yeah, this is something that had been bothering him since his days in California. Well, he's not wrong. No, no, he's certainly not. So yeah, it generally went down well. One person didn't particularly like it, or at least didn't have the opportunity to like it, because Johnson didn't attend.

No. Always a good sign when your outgoing president doesn't attend the inaugural address of the next one. But apart from Johnson, people were generally quite impressed. However,

almost immediately there were stirrings of trouble. The spoon factory has exploded, sir. Yes. The established Republican politicians

were a little bit worried. This Grant fellow, he didn't seem to want their advice when it came to certain positions. Sir, we've been politicians for years. we know what we're talking about here. Yes.

We're not lying. No. Why are you putting your military friends in that post? Oh dear. Yeah. In fact, Grant was, as all presidents before him, sick and tired already of all the office seekers that were coming by. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, Grant was determined to surround himself with men he could trust, or at least believed he would be able to trust due to their reputation. He wasn't just filling positions with people he knew from the military, although he was doing that partly. He was also seeking out people who had a reputation for knowing their onions. Knowing their onions from apples, that sort of thing. Yeah, exactly.

Sir, this is definitely an onion. You have a job. Well done, you. Only took you three attempts. There's only two pieces of food there. Now, the only cabinet member that we really need to look at that stuck out was his choice for Secretary of State. Sort of.

His first choice was an old friend called Washburn, who was going to become the ambassador to France. But the two of them organised it so Washburn could become Secretary of State for about two weeks, then resign, and then go to France. Okay. With a shiny

new title, Ex-Secretary of State. Nice. Yeah. How very Roman. Yeah, yeah. Probably high-fived each other when they came up with that one. Yeah. How very Roman. Yeah, yeah. Probably high-fived each other when they came up with that one. Oh, yeah. Grant's actual choice for Secretary of State was Hamilton Fish. Fish.

Hamilton Fish, which sounds like a mobile phone game spin-off for the musical. It does, yes. But apparently it's not. Aquatic version. Yes. It's little sprites of Hamilton and Jefferson fishing. Yeah. Yeah.

I'd buy that game. Really? No. Hamilton Fish was actually named after Alexander Hamilton. His father and Alexander Hamilton were friends. So when it came to naming his boy, he decided, what better than the surname of my friend? What if Alexander Hamilton's surname was Cocking? Would he have called him Cockingfish?

Yes, it's a good job. It wasn't, because then the musical would have been called Cocking. All in all, history dodged a bullet. It really did, didn't it? Yes. Anyway, Hamilton Fish had grown up to be the governor of New York and the chairman of the board of Columbia University, and had really gained a reputation for being an upstanding individual. Fish was taken by surprise, therefore, when he found out that the new president was thinking of him becoming the Secretary of State.

Nope. No, thank you. I've never considered doing that in my life. I'm going back to my pond. But Grant had already sent Fish's name forward, so Fish relented and took the post. Interestingly... Angling for position.

Yay! Yay. Interestingly, Grant appointed more Jewish people to posts than any previous president. Really, get the feeling. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. He was really trying to mend some bridges there. Yeah, this has led some historians to speculate

that he was trying to make amends for the appalling racism of his earlier life. Anyway, time to deal with some issues. The first problem is the economy. After all, that war they just had, quite expensive. Yeah, when you're fighting a singular country fighting another country, it's expensive in itself. But a country fighting itself? Yeah, and you can't even go in and plunder and make a profit after you win.

No. No. So, yeah, civil wars are just bad for business. And the economy had tanked. The national debt was five times larger than it had been at the start of the war. Wow. Yeah. To cope during the war, the government had issued paper money that was not backed by

specie. These were known as greenbacks, which is where you get the idea of green being linked to money. Yeah. These were necessary at the time, but were now causing inflation, as you can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Printed way too much.

Yes. Grant sought to do something about it. The Public Credit Act was pushed through that committed the country to pay off all bondholders and redeem all the greenbacks. To do this, the New York Gold Exchange was set up.

Oh, okay. They were going to sell off some of their reserves of gold. Right. So they could afford to pay back the bonds. Fair enough. Yeah. Makes sense. I don't understand how economies work. I don't get it when people borrow. So where does a country borrow money from? Do you have to explain it now? Probably more complicated than you do in one sentence, but

we'll leave that for another time. The economy is a complex business, yes. It is. In fact, I'm about to tell you a scandal about the economy. Took me a while to get my head around. Yes. Yeah, straight away, however, there was indeed a scandal. Because Grant's sister had recently become married

to a man named Rathbone Corbin. That is an amazing name. It's a good name, isn't it? Oh, if I have a kid, Rathbone's going on the list. Oh, yes. Well, Rathbone knew a couple of enterprising men. These men were Gould and Fisk. Now, let's just say they were not the most upstanding of citizens.

Right. Let's just say they had dubious morals. One of them had a big twirly moustache. Fantastic. In fact, here's a photo of him and his massive twirly moustache. That is brilliant. That is a well-twirled moustache, isn't it? I mean, it's not curling up at the end, but it could do.

His moustache is waxed and extends like twice the size of his face. Yeah, that's impressive. Yeah. It's like you've seen albatross on its wings, a bit like that. Yes. Yeah, these were what became known as robber barons, wealthy businessmen who were just manipulating politicians and the country to make even more money.

Gould controlled the Erie Railroad, and Fisk had made a fortune smuggling during the war. Now, these two men realised that they could use Rathbone to get to the new president and maybe use that to their advantage. They knew the brother-in-law of the president. Surely we can do something with this. The plan was simple.

They were going to corner the gold market. That is, buy up as much gold as possible, resulting in the price of gold going up. Then, they would sell their gold that they'd been hoarding for a huge profit. Now, there was only so much gold in circulation, and they figured that if they played their cards right, they could buy a large enough portion of the gold in the country to really affect the markets. However, there was a problem. The government had the largest portion of gold and

they were selling it off. They were selling huge quantities on the exchange and obviously when they sold the gold, the price for gold went down and if they didn't sell the gold that day, the price went up. Supply and demand. So the problem here was that if Gould and Fisk attempted to corner the market, they realised that Grant could just sell a lot of gold and fisk attempted to corner the market they realized that grant could just sell a lot of gold and bring the price for gold down again and the whole scheme would fall apart so they're gonna try and convince him not to sell the gold exactly i've just got an image of like um oh what's it called thing 11 oceans 11 oceans 11 style here going to a casino yeah they try and just basically steal the government's gold or persuade them not to sell the gold.

Lots of really quick back and forth banter. Oh, yeah. Lots of bants. Quick one-liners. Yeah. People talking about people rehearsing things. It's good. It's good stuff.

And then sudden slow-mo shots that speed up. Nice twist at the end. It's a huge twist. That you could kind of see coming, but... It was full of that. Nice. Oceans 2. So, like you say, in order for the scheme to work,

what they need to do is they need to know when the government will sell gold, how much the government was going to sell the gold for, and if possible, they needed grants to keep hold of as much of the national gold for as long as possible and not sell. So, they decide to use Rathbone Corbyn to get close to Grant. 1.5 million in gold suddenly found itself in an account belonging to Corbyn. Corbyn was on board.

He was then able to use his influence to persuade Grant to install General Butterfield to the post of the United States Sub-Treasurer, the man essentially who would be overseeing the sale of gold. Butterfield was the type of man that they needed in the job because he was willing to take a $10,000 bribe up front and another $1.5 million in stakes in the scheme in exchange for the information of the gold sales they needed. I couldn't betray my country. $10,000, do it. Yep.

Yes, it does. Yeah. So they've now got a man on the inside. Nice. They know when the gold's going to be sold. The mole. He's called the mole. Yes.

Fisk is called the stash. Gord had a big beard. He could be the beard. And Rathbones, just the bone Oh, bonesy Yeah So there's lots of, near the start of Oceans 2 Them talking and it suddenly stops and their name comes up at the bottom

Yes Yes Anyway, four of them in on it now Next, they need to work on Grant personally So Gould appeared at several social events through Rathbone's invite, and there they persuaded Grant that high gold prices were actually a good thing. Yes, you might see gold rising recently, but that's a good thing, you need it to rise. Because if gold rises, this helps the United States farmers who export overseas.

So the farmers will love you, Grant, if you keep gold high. Now eventually this drip feed of information works, and Grant was convinced that not selling gold for at least a month would actually benefit the economy. Gold and Fisk had already quietly been buying up as much gold as possible through an anonymous source, and they were ready. However, rumours had started, and Wall Street was starting to get nervous. Was someone trying to corner the market here?

Where's all the gold going? Yes. I had a lovely gold watch a minute ago and it's just disappeared. Corbyn was worried that these rumours might reach his brother-in-law Grant. So he sent Grant a letter just double-checking. You still do want gold prices to be high, right? I mean, you're not planning on selling gold, are you? Just checking. No reason. Yeah're not planning on selling gold, are you? Just checking.

No reason. Yeah. Just checking on the gold situation. What do you do with the gold, man? How are the kids? Yeah. P.S. Don't sell the gold.

It really was a bit like that, unfortunately. The letter reached Grant whilst he was playing croquet. He doesn't seem like a croquet kind of person, but... No, but apparently he was. He received the letter and, as was custom, ordered a telegram to be sent to his brother-in-law and it stated

letter delivered, alright. So I received the letter. Oh, that's a bit ambiguous, isn't it? Yeah, you spotted it. Corbyn received this and heard letter delivered, stop. All right, stop. I won't sell the gold.

Right. So he forwarded his own telegram to Fisk, essentially saying, buy, buy, buy, get as much as possible. He's going to start shutting it down. Grant, meanwhile, had actually read the letter and became a bit suspicious that his brother-in-law kept banging on about the gold yeah he's used the word 47 times in a three sentence letter i mean i mean the last sentence

just gold gold gold gold gold in bigger and bigger font starting to sound like a dwarf song grant became suspicious shall we say why was his brother-in-law who'd been hanging around with those shady characters, so interested all of a sudden in the gold market, was he up to something? So he had Julia write to her sister, telling the sister to tell her husband, stop.

Whatever it is you're up to, stop it. Stop being an idiot. You're going to wrap the family up in scandal. What on earth are you doing here? Corbyn, receiving this message, panicked and let Gould know. It's like, he's on to us. Gould, in typical robber baron style, decided to get out without telling Fisk. Bye!

Yes, and he started to sell, sell, sell, sell. But it was too late. Grant, furious that he had been manipulated, ordered the government to sell an astronomical four million of gold in one go. This was enough to tank the gold market overnight. The scheme failed completely. Yeah. However, when the gold market collapsed, it kind of dragged everything else with it.

Oh dear. Yeah. There were many reports in history books about what happened on what became known as Black Friday. I've heard that name before. This is the original Black Friday. Oh. Yeah.

Great deals. Yes, not back then. Most of these stories revolved around traders on Wall Street and how they walked to work as if going to the gallows. There was a report of one trader committing suicide. However, as per usual, it's the forgotten masses who suffered the most, especially the countless farmers who were wrapped up in the markets. And once again, there were scenes of rotting crops as they were unable to

sell their food. So yeah, great stick it to the people manipulating the markets, but kind of tanked the economy a bit there. Not great. Yeah, we're now entering what's known in US history as the Gilded Age. See if this rings any bells. This is an age of hyper-capitalism dominating. It's an age where the rich become insanely rich

and are able to dominate politics in order to make more money. It's like the 80s. It's like now. There is a reason why some people are starting to refer to the current age in America as the second Gilded Age. There are definitely some parallels. But yeah, gold and fisk obviously get off entirely.

They hire some good lawyers, they get away with it. We do not know what to do, we're just buying gold. We just love the gold. Simple gold buyers. Yeah, twirly moustache. Now Grant was not implicated directly in the scandal, but his reputation took a hit. Should he have not seen this coming? And this was just one of many similar scandals that hit over his time in office. Now we're not going to have time to go through any of the other scandals in detail like this one, so I just decided to pick one and cover it. But just know that there's a good three or four others

very similar to this. He's an idiot, isn't he, falling for the model? Well, they don't all personally involve him, but there's, yeah, I'll talk a bit more about it later, but yeah, generally, Grant's cabinet's known for a little bit of corruption, shall we say. Okay. Yes.

Meanwhile, however, foreign relations took the fore. There was a problem, as per usual, with Britain. Yay. During the war, Confederate agents were sent to Britain to get British companies to build warships for the South. Now this was against British law. You couldn't go building warships for any purpose apart from the british navy right involved in a war however there was a loophole you could build

a ship and then what was done with that ship after it was purchased well that's up to them isn't it but they're not allowed to sell it so you can't sell a warship but you can sell a ship. So just don't put the cannons on and sell it, basically. Yeah, it might look like a warship. It might have all the modern designs of a modern warship. All the guns are sealed up. It could be anything. Yeah. A five-houred

fisher boat. Yes, exactly. That's all that is. Yeah. A thousand fish at once. Yes. The British government at the time attempted to shut down the production of these ships, but some were sailed away. Now, considering the current British government and the Prime Minister were somewhat Confederacy-leaning, shall we say, perhaps they didn't try too hard to stop those ships getting away.

Anyway, one of these ships was named the Alabama, which had been built in Liverpool. This ship went on to raid over 60 Union ships before it was finally sunk. It did a good job. Anyway, now, post-war, the United States were looking for damages. Britain was supposed to have been neutral, but they had contributed to the attack against the United States. Sumner, in particular, was outraged and delivered a speech claiming that

due to the amount of losses due to this ship and others, the war had gone on for two years longer than it could have done. One of those wonderful political statements where no one could possibly know. But that was his estimate. Nice arbitrary number. Went on for ten years longer than it needed to.

Well, several ideas were tossed around. What should we do about this? Some of them included Britain giving up some of its holdings in the Western Hemisphere in exchange for the damages. In the end, Hamilton Fish steps up and sets something in motion. He sets up some meetings, and these meetings go very well. Not only were Britain willing to pay damages, but the feeling of goodwill meant that all other disputes

between the two nations could go on the table. Fishing rights, as ever, were discussed extensively. Of course Hamilton brought that up. Of course he did. And also general discussions of borders in Oregon and several other things. Yeah, everything is talked about, discussed, put in a treaty called Washington Treaty and signed by both parties. Britain would pay 15 and a half million and all the other factors were settled. And then the United States and Britain looked around, were settled and then the united states and britain

looked around a bit sort of wide-eyed and confused and realized for the first time since the war of independence there was officially and i quote here no beef between the nations that might not be a quote it's quoting something well yeah yeah victoria i believe yes i do believe there's no beef between us yeah and there you go do believe there's no beef between us. Yeah, and there you go. There's no problems. In fact, the United States and Britain could become allies. Ooh.

Yeah. A special relationship. Well, yes, some people point to this as the start of that special relationship. Apparently Obama and his camisole laugh at the idea of special things. Oh, yeah, nowadays in particular. Of course you would. It's just ridiculous. I love the fact when presidents go to Germany or France

and they always mention the special relationship they've got with them as well and us here in Britain just go, but hang on, I thought we were the oh, we're so small and insignificant now. We have nothing. We used to be big. Yeah, anyway.

Some other international things going on. There's a 10-year war going on in Cuba as rebels did what rebels do and rebelled. Yeah, against their mother country, Spain. Spain sent some words through some back rooms, some channels. Hello, senor. A little whisper here or there, a little nudge. Some channels. Hello, senor.

Little whisper here or there, little nudge. Perhaps the United States could take the island off Spain for a sum. Let's make this problem go away, shall we? What, what? Yeah. Well, Grant and Fish, that's interesting. Cuba, we could have Cuba. We could do a nice holiday home.

Yeah. So they put an offer together, but the Spanish took one look at it and just went, no, when we said for a sum, we meant a sum. That's not good enough. Yeah, four and a half dollars. Yeah. Not enough. So Grant, in the end, decided to sit back and observe.

Meanwhile, however, the public mood of the war just off the United States coast started to turn. A Spanish ship captured a US merchant vessel that was carrying supplies to the rebels, and the crew were executed. Many in the United States called for war with Spain. Grant ordered the Navy to converge on Cuba, but then Spain apologised. Sorry!

Yeah, and a promise was sent to the US of a large sum of money to make this whole thing go away. Which it did. Splendid. Yay. However, as they were in the area, Grant ordered Orville Babcock. Sorry, I'm going to be mid-yawn there. What?

Orville Babcock. Orville Babcock. Perhaps pronounced Bak-oo. Bak-oo. But no, it's Babcock. The names Bak-hoo. Bak-hoo. But no, it's Babcock. The names today are cracking. Yeah. This is an old friend and also his private secretary.

Yes. My good friend, Mr. Babcock. Yes. Babcock, go off to Santo Domingo, would you, and just find out what's going on over there. It was essentially the order, although probably less of a British accent. What?

Yes, because, and this was interesting, Fish had just received a letter from the current president of Santo Domingo, President Bears. And Bears was willing to sell the country to the United States. Sell? Santo Domingo.

To sell his own country. Cool. Yeah, that was probably Grant's reaction. Yeah? How much you want? Well, President Beas had been speaking to a wealthy United States citizen living on the island, and they all thought that everyone could make a fair

bit of money if they just sold the country to the US. Yeah. Also, Santo Domingo would be safer under the protectorate of the US as well. In fact, President Beas had attempted to sell the country before to France and in

future to Spain. That's fantastic. The third attempt to sell its own country. This is the second as far as I can tell. The Spanish one was later. He felt Santo Domingo would not be able to cope on its own, and he wanted someone more powerful to take over, and if he happened to make some money out of it, then why not? Grant was indeed interested. This island, after all, was in a very strategic position in the Caribbean, and it could be used as a safe haven for all those slaves

that had just been freed. Or the freedmen in the US could, if they want to, could go to Santo Domingo where they won't be persecuted. Oh, not again. It was looking so good!

To be fair to Grant, at no point does he say that they should go, but they could. He saw it as a safe haven that could be used. That's an implication, though. But yeah, it's not great, is it? That idea is just constantly there. However, Congress would have none of this. Sumner, in particular, was not a fan at all.

Relations between Sumner and Grant deteriorated even more, and the idea of buying Santo Domingo just dies out. Couple of chances of breaking into the Caribbean there, but no. Not yet. Now, of course, all of this that I've been talking about is just sideshows to the big problems facing the day, which is obviously Reconstruction. Just as Grant had pushed for in his inauguration speech,

the 15th Amendment had indeed been ratified. I'll quote the amendment here. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, colour or previous condition of servitude. So there you go. Everyone can vote, apart from women. Good God, can't let the women vote. Okay. So there you go. Everyone can vote, apart from women. All problems solved. Good God. Can't let the women vote.

No. In 1870, Congress established the Federal Department of Justice. Nice. This was a department charged with ensuring that all these laws

that were being imposed were actually followed. The Attorney General was put in charge, and this was an interesting man, an ex-Confederate Colonel, interestingly, named Ackerman. Ackerman had come to fully believe

that the only way for the country to have peace was for full suffrage for black men. Oh. Yeah. So I had to double-check that. It's like, Confederate Colonel? But yeah, there you go. Yeah, his ties with the Confederacy blocked him from getting the post for a while, as everyone had a similar reaction to us, which was, really?

But no, he gets the post in the end. Eventually he was sworn in and becomes an ardent opposition of anyone opposing black suffrage. Ackerman's main goal was to stop the violence against the black population in the south and his main target was the Ku Klux Klan. Are those d***heads? Yes. This obviously is a white supremacist terrorist group that had been founded in Tennessee by six Confederate officers after the war. And they're still around today. Now, as we have seen, fraternal secret societies were all the rage back in these days. Yeah. And this one channeled all the rage and the racism that many in the South felt after the war. But don't think pointy hoods and white coats. That's not the first clan.

That comes later. Yeah, there are three periods of the clan. That's not the first Klan. That comes later. Yeah, there are three periods of the Klan, and this is the first one. This is small local groups that adopted the name and methods of other small local groups to create a common cause. And that obviously was to use terrorism to suppress any law that aided black people. On top of that, they attempted to disable

any Republican state movement in the South. Now, despite it not being centrally structured and in small local groups, it is estimated that this is actually the largest that the Klan ever gets. There's lots and lots of small local groups acting independently of each other. Like spin to cells.

Yes, exactly. Now, the Klan is not the only white supremacist terrorist group of each other. Spin to cells. Yes, exactly. Now, the Klan is not the only white supremacist terrorist group of this time. Other groups known as the White League started up and also the Red Shirts. But the Klan is certainly the one that resonates through history because it springs

up again and again. Anyway, as we have seen, black people in the South were being lynched, kidnapped, beaten. Black churches were being lynched, kidnapped, beaten. Black churches were being burnt down and generally a feeling of terror being spread, so no one knew where the next attack was going to be from. It wasn't nice. So in 1871, the Ku Klux Klan Act was put through.

This essentially gave Grant the power to go into states with federal troops and sort out state problems in regards to unrest and terrorism. Basically shut them down. Yeah. Now, if you see that without context, that probably just seems obvious. But if you look at everything we've done so far in this podcast, this is a big deal.

Actually, yeah. Federal troops are now allowed in states and use force. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a big deal. Not seen much of this before. We saw a little bit with Jackson and the Force Act. But yeah, this is Grant saying, no, we are sorting this out. The crackdown was swift and tough.

Over 3,000 Klansmen were indicted within the year and troops were sent to various places in the South to make sure that the elections actually went ahead fairly. There'd be no intimidation of voters here. One historian, in fact, claimed that this resulted in the fairest elections in the South until 1968. Wow. Yeah, which is a damning statement. Anyway, Grant cracked down hardest of all in South Carolina, where the worst of the problems were. The Klan were utterly wiped out in the area.

And to all intents and purposes, it ceased to exist across the country until the second Klan pops up in the early 1900s. Now, that's great, but that's not to say things were now good for the black population in the South. No, of course not. No, just because the clan's gone doesn't mean things magically get better. It was still arguably the most dangerous time for the black population in the country's history,

and random outbreaks of violence were still common. But at least an emboldened, organised terror group had been put down. So, that's good. So, in relation to Reconstruction, things were painful, but at least things were moving. By 1871, the rest of the states were finally admitted into the United States. So everyone's back in the party again. Yay.

Everyone has representation in national government. So we now turn to Grant's treatment of the native population of the country. Oh. Yeah, it gets a bit depressing, this of the native population of the country. Oh. Yeah, it gets a bit depressing, this episode, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. There's one little fact that's going to cheer you up in a moment, though. Good. Yeah. Just cling on to that. Anyway, in his inauguration speech, like I mentioned at the

beginning, Grant stated that the original inhabitants of the land needed to be treated properly. A wonderful statement that is worthy of any keen politician. What does properly mean? Yeah, exactly. It's a statement that no one would ever disagree with that. Who would disagree with that statement? Does that mean properly saying we will now educate them to live in their homes? Exactly. What does treated properly mean? Well, Grant did go on to clarify. You'll be pleased to know. I will quote him here. I will favour any course which tends to their civilisation

and ultimately their citizenship. Oh, so he wants to make them citizens. Yeah. Now here we get a prime example of how people thought 150 years ago. If you were not an out-and-out-join-the-KKK racist, you were almost definitely an unconscious racist.

Yeah. Yeah. Grant and those working for him did seem to honestly want to make things better for the native population, but it did not occur to them that perhaps they should not try and impose their own white culture upon the Native Americans. Just leave us alone. That's all we want. Yeah. Now, to be fair, Grant does seem to see glimpses of this. When serving in California, which I mentioned last episode, he wrote to Julia, who was worried about the Indian presence in the

area. And I will quote Grant's reply here, They were the most harmless people you ever saw. The whole race would be harmless and peaceable if it were not put upon by the whites. So he does understand that. However, even

if he thought this, Grant could not escape the view that practically every white person had at the time, which was that the Native Americans were primitive. We need to civilise them. Yeah, I will quote Grant again here, our superiority should make us lenient towards the Indians. Oh. Yeah. Now, some whites at the time scorned the natives as barbarians, and they needed to be wiped out.

Right. On the other end of this spectrum were people who praised, somewhat patronisingly, the noble, simple life that the Native Americans led. However, everyone just saw it as a culture that was somehow below their own. Yeah. Now, we have seen over all the episodes how the treatment of Native Americans played out. They were lied to. They were forced to sign treaties that the United States always

broke. They were forced on death marches to relocate them. Oh yeah. Yeah. We have also seen examples of Native American pushback where factions within tribes wanting to fight back led to massacres, leading to the white population feeling justified with the harsh treatment of all Native Americans,

and so the cycle of violence continues. And this pretty much catches us up to current times. Estimates are that there were a quarter of a million Native Americans living under the terms of nearly four-home retreat treaties. All of the treaties were different and all of them were steadily being broken, leading to tension. Under Johnson, General Sherman wrote the following about a group of tribes and I'll quote, I want you to go ahead, kill and punish the hostiles. The more we kill this year, the less we have to kill next. Oh for goodness sake. Yeah. This is about where Grant comes in. Grant shocked many by doing the following, and get this,

he appointed a Native American as head of the Indian Affairs Department. Whoa. Yeah. Crazy. Then, an idea for a peace policy was put forth, created by Native Americans and largely Quakers, because the Quakers just wanted everyone to be happy. In 1871, Grant officially put an end to all treaties.

These treaties are nonsense. They're not working. They're leading to tensions. They keep being broken. Instead, there was a new bold plan. All tribes would be put on reservations, where the federal government would help them create farms, help them build schools, shops, infrastructure.

The things that you all definitely want. Yeah, we will civilise the savages, essentially. A board was set up to look into this and soon created a scathing report on the activities of Indian agents. These were white men that, through knowing the right man in Congress, had been given the job to work with Native American tribes

to discuss the treaties and generally deal with them. These agents were called out as corrupt and inept. So Grant started filling the positions with ex-army men he could trust and religious men with solid reputations, just generally trying to clear out the corruption.

This angered many in Congress, who saw this as a loss of a way of making money and giving out favours. Oh, goodness. I'm very much reminded of pro-consuls in modern times. It was just seen as a way of making money, just exploiting huge groups of people. So Congress wasn't happy with Grant, but he was determined to go forward with this.

Largely, these moves were seen as good in the East, but bad in the West. Of course, many in the West had suffered from, or at least come across violent acts due to the native population. And this idiot in charge wanted to treat them with kid gloves. Does he not understand that they are vicious? They needed to be dealt with harshly. Yeah. And fighting, as ever, was still going on. When Warhawk factions of Native Americans raided US supplies, the army would retaliate on whole villages. Then, in 1873, an unarmed general named Canby was murdered at a meeting with the Modoc Indians in California.

Sherman sent the following, You will be fully justified in their extermination. And then something happened. Things were tense. Things were bubbling along. But Grant did have this vision, this idea of building reservations and financially helping. He had a way he wanted to go forward. But then someone

discovered gold in the Black Hills of Dakota. I told you you'd be excited by something. Yes! Deadwood happened. Yes, it did! Yes, we have now caught up with the time

of Deadwood. Oh, I need to watch Deadwood again now. Yes, you do. I watched episode one again a few weeks ago and I need to just watch the rest now. Oh, it's really good, isn't it? So, there you go. You can now picture all the characters of Deadwood.

Bill Swerenjan's there. Yeah, he's alive at this time. And he's saying all sorts of words like m***. Yeah. C***. Yeah. Pig b***. He says b*** quite a lot. He does. How many beeps are you doing today? Also words like... Yeah. Yeah.

He says... quite a lot. He does. How many beeps are you doing today? A lot of beeps today, yeah. Seth Bullock's there. Yeah. Yeah. Soul star.

Yeah, yeah. Future mayor. Yeah. Clamity Jane! Just to get you a little bit excited. Yeah. I was going to save this, but I'm going to say it now. Seth Bullock comes into one of our episodes at one point. Really? Or at least he can, and I will make sure he does. Oh, that's amazing! Yeah. I was going to save this, but I'm going to say it now. Seth Bullock comes into one of our episodes at one point.

Really? Or at least he can, and I will make sure he does. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Not for a little while, but soon. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah.

Oh, I'm really excited. See, there you go. I told you there's a nice little fact for you in all the misery. Yeah. Anyway, gold discovered in the Black Hills of Dakota and everyone starts building Deadwood. This land, unfortunately, was slap bang in the middle of one of the Indian reservations. Sherman and Grant had a conversation. Sherman at this time is in charge of all the armed forces. And they decide that there was simply no way to stop gold prospectors from

starting a gold rush. There was no way you could stop people moving into an area that they were not allowed to settle in. But apparently, there was a way to move people out. Oh. Yes, it was decided that the local population of Native Americans needed to be moved out

of part of the reservation and just go and live in the other part. Yeah, move out of the part with the gold. Yes, that's correct. Yes. General Sheridan was ordered to move the population and then keep an eye on them. What actually happened was that the Lakota Sioux leader, Sitting Bull, refused to leave the designated area and fighting broke out. The United States forces were split into three, and they approached from different directions

to make sure that the Native Americans moved on. However, one of the forces was led by General Custer, and when he ran into the Native Americans refusing to leave, a battle broke out that's become known as the Battle of Little Bighorn. Oh, I've heard of that. Or Custer's Last Stand. Yes. The US forces's Last Stand. Yes. The US forces were wiped out.

Wow. Yeah. News soon spread and any support for Grant's peace policy evaporated overnight. They brought this on themselves though, didn't they? Yeah. Grant was not happy with the now dead Custer. I'll quote him here. I regard Custer's massacre as a sacrifice of troops brought on by Custer himself He's not happy.

He's not happy. His peace plan's been destroyed. their revenge. Instead of going after hostiles, if you were Native American, you were now a target for arrest, if not worse. Now, by this time, Grant had been re-elected. Despite the obvious problems that we've covered, Grant still had a lot of support. Frederick Douglass was still a supporter, and he carried a lot of the black population with him, obviously. Many Indian reformers praised his efforts. It's dodgy, but he was actually one of the better voices speaking at the time. So yeah. And also he was still the war hero. He had that status to ride. So yes, he won easily enough. However, many in the Republican Party who were not with the radicals thought that Grant was perhaps punishing the South a bit too much.

Johnson had the right idea. And also you are going after the KKK a little bit too harsh there. Yeah. What is wrong with people? I don't know. Obviously, the Democrats hated him because he was a Republican, so he certainly had his detractors. Those opposed to Grant pointed out the many scandals that had been rocking the administration, as I mentioned earlier.

So another brief word about these scandals. We covered the one earlier on as I mentioned earlier. So another brief word about these scandals. We covered the one earlier on, but there were several others that took place, and we simply don't have time to cover them in any detail. I was going to give you a brief highlight of them, but there's no way of briefly highlighting most of them. You just need to know that they mainly involved people being put into positions that perhaps they shouldn't have been put into, and manipulation of markets and dodgy dealings. But there is one that I know you'll be interested in, because this was known as the Whiskey Ring. Ooh, yeah, that got your attention.

Yeah, because for years, the Treasury had an agreement, shall we say, with the leading distillers of the country. Bribes were given, so the quantity of whisky produced was not too carefully looked at. Therefore, tax could be avoided. Wonderful. It doesn't say what type of bribes, but I'm hoping it's bribes of whisky.

Yes. Here's your barrel, sir. Thank you. I would love a barrel of whisky. Imagine how long that would last. At least a week. I know, it'd be brilliant, wouldn't it? Yeah, an estimate at the time was that whisky companies dodged between

12 and 15 million in taxes a year. That was a lot back then. Yeah. Grant had appointed a man named Bristow as the head of the treasury and Bristow was charged with looking into this tax dodging. Grant had caught wind of it, and he wasn't too happy.

After an investigation, Bristow arrested 350 men, leading to 101 convictions. Turned out that this was widespread and ran deep into the government. In fact, the problem was, it soon came to light that none other than Babcock was getting kickbacks orville babcock orville babcock i always wonder why he's so drunk yes i don't forget this is the president's private secretary this is the equivalent of chief of staff yeah i didn't

have that title back then so i mean this is as close to the president you can get yeah yeah he's essentially the groom of the stool for the president. Yes. Grant was certain that Babcock was innocent. Surely he was innocent. He won't get up to that kind of thing. And he provided a written deposition for his friend that really helped him during the trial,

which is dodgy to say the least. Yeah. Babcock was therefore acquitted. However, under pressure from Fish, Grant reluctantly asked Babcock to leave. Now, during all this, in 1873, a financial crash hit.

It was a fairly big one. As we've seen before, the economy plummeted. Again, scenes of people starving, crops rotting, etc, etc. This time, a quarter of the railroad companies went bust in the entire country. Many in Congress hoped that the inflation bill they had just created would ease things. This would aid the workers and the farmers by putting more currency in circulation.

However, the banks and Wall Street feared that it would weaken the dollar too much, and they'd lose money. Yay. Grant visited New York to get advice from those who knew business, and he was swayed and vetoed the bill. This is a bill that was widely seen as definitely going to help everyone, and Grant just vetoed it, allowing the businessmen to get their way, essentially.

Now, as it turned out, the businessmen and the bankers were absolutely correct. It did stabilise the markets, vetoing this bill. But then it led to a long depression. And for years, many in the country struggled. So that's not good. And by this point, his second term was over. Some feared that he'd try to run for a third term. Remember, that's still legal.

There's no reason why he can't. This is just the first time in a very long time someone's been popular enough to get to the end of a second term and still be viable for running. But he turns it down. He decides not to run. He's going to retire. The election coming up was a controversial one, shall we say.

But we're going to cover that in the next President's episode because it involves him a lot more than Grant. Anyway, Grant retires and he toured the world. Had a lovely time he went to visit queen victoria for a while okay yeah bit of a scene was caused because his son demanded to be sat on the table queen victoria uh yeah for a long time he was trying to be talked down uh didn't work and he was sat with queen victoria really apparently had a really awkward meal where everyone sat in silence. Yeah. So that happened.

Anyway, after touring the world, Grant heads home. Then in 1880, he came very close to becoming the Republican nominee for president once more. He actually did go for it again. Oh, really? In fact, he came second in the convention. It was very close.

He almost was a third-term president, but it didn't happen. Now, by this time, the Grants were struggling for money. I mean, they'd never been a fabulously rich family. They'd been well off and off. So his friend Mark Twain... The author. Yeah, something I've not mentioned before, but he befriended Mark Twain at one point, so they're friends now.

Mark Twain offered Grant a 75% royalty deal on an autobiography. A fantastically good deal. So, wanting to leave something for his family and also learning that he had throat cancer, Grant started to write his life story.

He finished the book days before his death. Wow. Resulting in Julia getting the equivalent of $12.5 million in today's money. Nice. So the book provided for his family. There you go. That's Grant. Ups and downs.

Yeah, ups and downs. Yeah, definitely ups and downs. I'm quite looking forward to ranking him. Let's do it then. Statement! Get the feeling there were a lot of good intentions. Yeah. He doesn't seem like a horrible person. No, he seems like quite a nice person, doesn't he?

Just a few things went a bit awry. Yeah. Okay, let's see what he did that's good. Although before we start this, and someone asked this question through Facebook, are we going to count any of his pre-presidency stuff as statesmanship? You can still be a statesman, can't you? You're still doing something for the country. Yeah.

I'd count that. I'm fairly sure we did for Washington, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah. Because if you're, for example, leader of the House, for example, we'd count that as doing good stuff. Yeah, exactly. Right.

So, big one first then. He won the Civil War for example, we'd count that as doing good stuff. Yeah, exactly, yeah. So, yeah. Right, so, big one first then. He won the Civil War for the United States. That's a biggie. That's a biggie. If that war had been lost, at the very least, there would have been two separate countries, one of them hell-bent on spreading slavery as far and as fast as possible. So, that's good. Yeah.

Yeah. Then, on onto his presidency, he pulled the last of the states back into the country. So it's now the full United States again. Yay. He pushed for the 15th Amendment. Yeah. For everyone being allowed to vote

as long as they've got testicles. So it's, I mean, it already gone. It just needed to be ratified, but he was there pushing for it, so that's good. This one's a good one. He cracked down hard and fast on the first Klan. Yeah. So you definitely get points for that.

Definitely. Yeah. He also used federal force to make sure elections were fair, despite a lot of opposition, as you can imagine. A lot of people opposed that. Yeah. Using federal forces in the States. How dare you?

To make things free and fair. You monster. Last time I noticed this was democracy. So, yeah, I think he deserves points there. He attempted to improve the lot of the Native Americans. As historian Josiah Bunting points out, I'll quote here, Grant's attitude to the Native Americans was, for the time, humane in instinct and intent, far ahead of conventional cultural and political wisdom.

However, it failed to understand that what was needed to be protected was Indian culture itself. Yeah. Which I think is a fair... That's a nice summary. It's a fair assessment, but I think it lets Grant off a little bit too lightly to be honest yes he definitely deserves credit for wanting to help the plight of the Indians

and for the time his idea was actually a lot better than any other idea so far he's tried to get rid of the corruption he did a lot of good but oh how quickly did it all disappear as soon as gold was discovered in the Black Hills. Yeah. And it's

been argued that the Sioux War was largely out of his hands and he didn't like the fighting and he was angry with Custer. But he's the president. Yeah. The book stops with him. Yeah. So... It's certainly a better attitude than many presidents we've seen.

Yes. That is true. But there's definitely things to be critical of. Yeah. Yeah. The Treaty of Washington, Britain and the US are now firm friends. Yeah. That's always good. So, yeah, there's definitely a few good things there.

Bad. There's no real lasting changes. There's nothing big here, is there? Not really. No. And scandal was rife. Yeah. But it can be argued that the corruption was more around him, not him.

I mean, that whiskey scandal started because he wanted to crack down on tax evasion. Yeah. Seven, I think, is fair. Well, I think you're a bit higher than me. I think he'd score seven or eight for intentions. But he just doesn't really quite do it. I think... Won the Civil War.

Oh, you see, I'm forgetting about the Civil War. That is a very good point. That might push it up for seven to me. So I was thinking five or six. And he pushed forward the 15th Amendment, the KK. Well, I think there are so many big positives. And yes, there are the negatives. But I don't know.

I think as horrendous as they are, we've seen worse. Oh, God, we've seen so much worse. Yeah. But that's why those people got zero. Yeah. But he's held the country together, literally. That's true. Two terms as well.

I'll give him a seven. Yeah, OK. You can give him a six if you want. I won't Two terms as well. I'll give him a seven. Yeah, okay. You can give him a six if you want. I won't judge you. No, I'll give him a seven. You're right. Winning the Civil War was a big one. And he can get the rest of the points

knocked off for that dodgy business. Yes. That's true. Okay. Disgrace, gangsters. There's only really one thing here. That's General Order 11. Yeah.

Not good. Not good at all. As I said earlier, it highlights the blanket of racism that covered the country at the time. It was just assumed by practically everyone that if there were dodgy financial deals going on and black markets happening, that it must be the Jews. I mean, that was a thing, wasn't it, at the time, worldwide?

I still people even believe it now. Yes, yeah. It was a common idea. Yes, this was a thing, wasn't it, at the time, worldwide? People even believe it now. Yes, yeah. It was a common idea. Yes, this was a worldwide racism, as I'll mention in a moment. So, yeah, I already covered what Grant did. However, maybe I'm being too kind on Grant here, but despite his obviously very poor excuses, the evidence does seem to suggest that he did change his views in late life,

that he tried to learn from this, or at least attempted to redeem himself in the eyes of his Jewish countrymen. He was the first president to attend a synagogue that was in service. As I said before, he appointed more Jewish people than any other president, and he also publicly condemned the forced removal of Jews that was going on in Russia at the time. A move seen as shocking at the time because leaders did not comment on other leaders of countries.

This was seen as a quite shocking thing for Grant to do. Russia had not supported the South in the Civil War. Russia were an ally. Yeah. And he was now criticising them. You do get the sense that he regretted what he did earlier which is better than him not regretting it yes uh but he certainly deserves at least a couple of points for that order definitely i think uh apart from that we don't really have anything at all his drinking is often brought up i just don't see

whether that's worthy of points at no point did I come across a story where his drinking meant that he was unable to perform his duties, apart from when he was miserable in California. He genuinely seems to want to make the world a bit better for the people in the country he's ruling. Yeah. So, two? Yeah.

Minus four. Silver's Green. The Grant miniseries. I'll be honest, I'm genuinely surprised there hasn't been one. Yeah, I mean, it's very exciting in terms of civil war. Yeah. Even some of the presidencies as well, the social elements are very interesting. Well, we start, obviously, with the tannery and his abolitionist father

yeah his overbearing father uh his development of loving horses becoming a horse whisperer almost yeah you've got quite a few nice tales of his childhood then off to west point without even knowing about it yeah yeah oh realizing his name has now been changed due to a clerical error. Excellent. Yeah. Graduating from there, meeting Julia, courting her, being told off by the captain for neglecting his duties and being fined bottles of wine.

You just get a sense you could make a nice bit of drama out of that. Yeah, I think so. Out of that. Going across the river and Julia clutching onto him. Oh. And then him proposing. Oh. Yeah, so you've got that. Going across the river and Julia clutching onto him and then him proposing. Yeah, so you've got that. Then the Mexican war breaks out just after he's proposed

and he's dragged away to war. A war that he disagrees with, but he's got to fight in. I mean, that's drama there. And the scene there, he's on one knee. Will you marry me? And a soldier grabs him on the shoulder, pulls him away. Quick, I need an answer! He doesn't hear the answer.

It's the end of the war. Damn it. Then we've got the Mexican War. You remember this is where he writes to Julia talking about people having their lower jaw ripped off. Oh, yes. He's got all of that. This is where he goes through a Mexican town

where the snipers are, and he's alone on horseback, and he's riding on the side of the horse, avoiding the bullets. He fights in both theatres of the Mexican War, so you get to see General Taylor and General Scott. He goes over to where Pierce is fighting, so you could even get a bit of Pierce's ridiculousness in there. Oh, he fell off his horse. Yeah, so all that happens, the war finishes, he hangs around in even get a bit of pierce's ridiculousness in there oh he fell off his horse yeah yeah so all that happens the war finishes he hangs around in mexico for a bit then he heads

back he marries julia he goes up to the canadian border they have a child and then he suddenly he's told he's got to go to california whilst julia's pregnant with their second child through panama where everyone dies oh yeah yeah and he's desperately trying to send people to the hospitals and keep people alive. That's an episode there. It's like an episode of House. Yeah. Then he hates California and he drinks too much.

He tries several business ventures that just fail, including ice making, which just reminds me, it was the Insanity Hot Day that we recorded this last episode, wasn't it? Yeah, so he tries to sell his ice. Then he gets too drunk and can't perform his duties, so he's given the option to

leave or, and then he leaves. Heads back home. The Civil War breaks out and then you've got the Civil War. You've got the fact that he started as commanding some of the volunteers and he ends up leading the entire army i mean that'll be a three episode arc there in itself yeah definitely there's a lot there which all ends with obviously lee surrendering to him yeah yeah just puts his pistol down the table. Yeah. I thank you, sir, for a fine battle.

Grant looking very annoyed and dishevelled. Yeah, so in the courthouse, one-on-one talking, all very dramatic. And then, of course, Lincoln is assassinated. Right in the head. Oh, yes. And then you've got everything that we covered this week, being under Johnson and realising that Johnson is a git. Yeah, yes. And then becoming president, you could make something out

of the scandals quite nicely, I imagine. Yeah. I don't know how much you could make out of the efforts of reconstruction, but possibly. You're dropping a few lines here and there. Yeah. QKK stuff would be... Yes, you could

definitely get something out of that. Obviously then you've got Deadwood. Just show all three scissors of Deadwood in between. Yeah. And then he retires, goes on a world tour, he writes a book, he makes his family rich on his deathbed. Nice. It's pretty good.

Yeah, pretty good. It is. How good though? I think a healthy 8. What would you need for a bigger score? Nine. Oh, no, I'm going for eight. I think eight was right. I'm just wondering. I think because the Civil War element, this is one you'd get the most out of, I think.

It's a good Rags to Riches story. Yeah. That always gets you points. There were two wars that were always interesting. Actually, maybe I should go to nine. It is bloody good, isn't it? I think his presidency is just not always interesting. Actually, maybe I should go to nine. It is bloody good, isn't it? I think his presidency is just not that interesting. His life is, but his presidency is not necessarily.

Possibly not. So I think he loses a couple there for me. I'm going for eight. I'll go for nine. So 17. 17, not bad. And that's ability. Okay, you ready for his portrait?

There he is. Always a big beefy man, isn't he? He's a big, beefy man with a short beard, short hair. He sat in a red chair with a brown background. What he's wearing looks more sort of like sort of tuxedo style than you see now, isn't it? It looks actually surprisingly modern. Yeah, yeah.

What they're wearing is becoming much more modern. It's looking more suit-oty, isn't it? It's alright. It's not amazing. No, because I've seen another picture of him where he's in his army garb. Oh yeah, there were definitely better pictures. Unfortunately, this is the official one, I say. That's what we've got to judge on. 6.

5. So, 2.75. But, here's some photos and some pictures of him so you can see his life. The first one's a woodcut of him when he's really young. Wow. Yeah. What a guy.

Is that where he's laughed off his horse, do you think? Yeah, it's that sort of age. I got all of these from the Wikipedia page. So if you just go to his Wikipedia page and scroll down, you'll see the photos we're now talking about. This is him around the age of 20. He's got quite a square jaw and a

stern look about him. Clean-shaven. Then, flash forward 20 years to the start of the Civil War. This one's surprising. Whoa! Look at that beard! He's got a really big square beard. It's like a really big square beard. It's like, it's a long beard.

It's like, goes down to the top of his chest. And it's just perfectly rectangular. It's been shaped. Maybe, you know, they had to build their own huts and forts and things. He uses like a set square to help wooden. Yes. It really goes to show how much a beard ages you, or at least a long one. Yeah. Because the next photo is just three or four years after this,

and it's the really famous one of him leaning against a wooden post. That's him towards the end of the war. He looks so much younger. He does. He's just stern and staring off in the distance, looking a bit dishevelled. That's, like, seeing photographs that are quite good quality, it's quite modernising, isn't it? Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? looking a bit disheveled. That's, like, seeing photographs that are quite good quality. Yeah.

It's quite modernising, isn't it? Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? It's like, these aren't really old photos. That's like just a photo of him. Very lean, isn't he, that one? There's a photo of him as president. So you can see the painting of him captures him quite well. That painting looks like the photo. Then finally, you should recognise this scene.

Oh my goodness, yeah. That's the opening of today's episode. It's him just a few days before his death, writing his memoirs on a wicker chair, covered in blankets. And a woolly hat. Yeah, and a woolly hat. A very modern-looking woolly hat.

So, there you go. But we don't get to rank any of those. It's interesting seeing the photos. Yeah, ithmm. Yeah. So, there you go. But we don't get to rank any of those. It's interesting seeing the photos. Yeah, that's really nice. Okay, last round. Go, Lawrence! Two points, two terms.

First time we've seen that in a while. Yeah. Yes. No one tried to kill him. No points. Election, landslide. An average of both of his elections gives him a 77.35% of the Electoral College. Very respectable, that.

So that is two points for that. So that gives him a score of 33.75. Not bad at all. That means he beats some of the big names. He's beaten Madison. He's beaten Jefferson. He's beaten Monroe. He didn't quite beat John Quincy Adams, though.

Obviously, he beats all the really low scorers. But yeah, that's pretty good. But is he? American or American? I think yes. It's a tough one, isn't it? It's tough because there are quite big blips. However, he won the Civil War.

Yeah, it's a big one, that, isn't it? It's very hard to not give American to the person who won the Civil War. Yeah, it's a big one, that, isn't it? It's very hard to not give a merit can to the person who won the Civil War. He also ratified the 15th Amendment, which is very good. Yeah. And his intentions were largely good. Yes. But sometimes poorly executed and sometimes just thrown out the window if there was some gold nearby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think yes, because I think winning the civil war is a biggie yeah we gave it to jefferson and i don't like jefferson so if he gets it i think grant should get it yeah yeah i'm gonna say yes as well oh good okay well done there we go well done grant you are an american yay yay brilliant well there we go that's president 18 down president 19 next and now we enter what's known as the beardy age

yes yes brilliant couple of small beards Lincoln and Grant but then the beards get serious this is why we do this podcast

oh yes definitely beards for our history oh beards for Dallas Rankin oh we totally should yeah great

okay thank you very much for listening then definitely follow us on Twitter and Facebook and Dallas and Podbean and iTunes yes and

please leave reviews and rate us would be really useful especially now that history podcasts have their own rating in iTunes

oh do they yeah I don't use iTunes so I have no idea. Well, what this means is that we can now see where we are in the podcast charts.

Okay. Which is nice. It's good. We can see how well we're liked compared to other history podcasts. Isn't the American one about 134th or something?

Yeah, yeah. Out of 134. We have made the top 200, which has really pleased me. It's really good. And interestingly, did not expect this, this podcast, the American one, is actually higher than the Roman one in America.

Really? Well, it kind of makes sense, yeah. But, yeah. Cool. Yeah, it's cool. Thank you, America. So, please go, leave us more reviews. So, thank you very much for listening.

And until next time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you, America. So, please go. Leave us more reviews. So, thank you very much for listening. And until next time. Goodbye. Goodbye. And who are you? I am an official boat inspector of Her Majesty the Queen. Oh, dear. Hello, lovely to see you.

Didn't expect you this early. I thought you were arriving in two days. Well, I'm very prompt. I'm here because there have been rumours that you are building warships. What? I am offended. We are not building warships. We're not allowed to do that. We're sending to the US and we would not make war.

That is slanderous. What is that behind you? That is a ship. It's a warship. It is not a warship. I can see its name. Oh, God, Jeff, why did you cover the name up, you idiot? HMS Warship. That's just a joke.

Just Geoff playing that. It's going to be rubbed out. It's not a warship. Then what is it? It's a fishing boat. That's obviously a fishing boat. I see no nets. They're below deck.

I see no harpoons. That's... They haven't been loaded on yet. They're being... I see 12 cannons. Oh. Well, there's a funny story about that. They're big metal tubes for storage.

Storage? Yes, storage. What do they store? Cannonballs? What? Harpoons! Harpoons, the harpoons will be going in there. They're long, they get shot out,

because we used to do it by hand, but now we do it via cannon, uh, tube. Right. You expect me to believe that the HMS warship, lined with 12 cannons, is a fishing boat? Um, yep. Well, okay, one last thing, then. warship lined with 12 cannons is a fishing boat um yep well okay one last thing then

what about all those confederate soldiers marching onto the boat what oh um they're not confederate soldiers

they're singing Dixie tourists slap in the nines lads oh not again oh no you don't need to I've got it From the last Part two

I use the same part two Oh do you Yeah Oh cool Yeah So I know we're Like nearly 40 episodes in I probably could have told you

This a while ago It's alright But I never use the second one You do Oh okay Ever So we can just start Okay

That was Good to know Recording Yep Don't know how you say Hello welcome to American Presidents That was Rankin as well so we can just start okay that was good to know recording yep do you want me to say hello welcome to American Presidents I was ranking as well I just use all of your past dialogue from the very first Roman episode

nothing's we've got a clip of you saying yes Rob that's very interesting and I just use that oh okay cool