American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 23.1 Benjamin Harrison

Episode Date: February 15, 2020

Benjamin Harrison is the grandson of a former president, but that does not mean he has it all easy. He has to contend with forbidden cucumbers, William Wallace and grave robbers before he can even start to think about becoming president himself.

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Benjamin Harrison. Part 1. Hello, welcome to American Presidents Hotelis Rankium. I am Jamie. And I am Rob, and this is episode 23.1, Benjamin Harrison. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Is that a coup of excitement there? It's the ghosts of the past. Oh, come to speak.

Yes. Nice. What do you know about Benjamin Harrison? Absolutely nothing. Well, come to speak. Yes. Nice. What do you know about Benjamin Harrison? Absolutely nothing. Well, one thing I do know. Yeah, yeah. He came after Grover Cleveland. He did.

And, as I was giving Soundguy the name to say, you recognise the name Harrison? Yes. Because of the Beatles. Yes, of course. William Harrison. William Harrison? Yes. Because, uh, the Beatles. Yes, of course. William Harrison. William Harrison, yeah. Yeah. There was another one, wasn't there? No. Well, I mean, there are other Harrisons in the world. Possibly. Yeah. Halfway. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Over halfway

now because we've started this episode. It's exciting. We're on the road to the end. Yeah. Happy birthday for tomorrow or yesterday. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It is my birthday yesterday, isn't it? It's my birthday yesterday. Oh, time travel. It's weird my birthday yesterday, isn't it? It's my birthday yesterday. Oh, time travel. It's weird. It is.

Right. Anyway. At the end of the episode, we'll send all the listeners a happy birthday to you. All together at the same time. Yes. I will look forward to that. Yeah.

That'll be good. All right. Let's do the introduction. Ooh. Mmm. Now you're too good at this now. Copper coloured in reference to the whisky. Nice.

Which we are enjoying. Birthday whisky. Yes. Is that it? Just copper coloured? Is that all I need to do? Copper that's been slightly tarnished. It's got sort of like...

Because copper goes sort of like a turquoise-y tarnish on it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Tarnished copper. Not completely. Like, mainly copper with bits of... Ah, just add the... No, no. Or... No, go for it. Open on tarnished copper. Ooh., not completely. Like, mainly copper with bits of... Ah, they just add the... No, no.

Go for it. Open on tarnished copper. It's dark. You can tell it's night time. And you're just looking at this essentially sheet metal tarnished copper. And it's... You can see some flickering lights in the distance, but like

reflecting off the sheet metal. But you're quite close to the sheet metal. There's cobbled floor. You're outside. outside it's dark it's spitting a bit not coming down buckets but drizzle and then slowly so you hear the sound of a wagon what wagons have you heard i don't know what are they doing on that one Fair question I think like a squeaky wheel Right, okay Yeah, and horses, horses as well Clip-clop, clip-clop, clip-clop No, no

Right, okay, so No And then you see the horse legs come past Getting in the way of you and the copper sheet And then the wagon comes past And as the wagon comes past Swing by with your camera And it's almost as if the breeze of the wagon Has and then the wagon comes past and as the wagon come past swing by with your camera and it's almost as if the the breeze of the wagons like pulled the camera you're shaking your head

year 60 share where's your cohesion where's that copper what is that what what link it what actually is it oh you're about to find out don't worry you'd just be grasping no no no i know exactly what it is okay as the camera pulls up you realize you're it just keeps going up but starts tilting down you realize you are now facing down bird's eye view on an alleyway which just has things in it there's a box over there crate wooden crate an old barrel just some old bits of copper left over gone to rust it has has it Tarnished, you could call it. Good save. If you can call it that.

There's nothing wrong with this. Anyway, it's really dark though. You can't make much out apart from the slight reflection on this copper. Indescript copper thing. Sheet metal. Yeah, okay. That's what it is. Anyway, you see a dark shape jump off the wagon and start

coming to the back of the wagon cat no no it's a person you can tell that much and then another person jumps off the wagon and comes around the back and together they pull off something large and heavy off the back of the wagon his name's Daniel not quite it's a big

heavy shape kind of thuds to the ground. And one of them goes, be careful. And then suddenly a door opens in the alleyway. Light spills out. The light just reflects off that bit of carpet. Like no one's business. You see a silhouette poke its head out of the door. He's still looking from above her.

And say something along the lines of, quickly in here before someone sees you! So the two people who got off the carriage pull this big heavy object into the warehouse, which is what it is. It's got a warehouse feel to this. By this time the camera starts to just go down and follow them all as they go into the warehouse. So you're now inside this dark room. Face seller kind of feeling, even though you're not actually underground. Industrial. Yeah. Pillars. Yeah. Anyway, they dump this package in the middle of the room and the guy who let them in just says, right, just put it, put it over there. And one of them pulls out a rope and starts tying something to one end of this package.

And then, again, the person who opened the door said, We'll winch it up the shaft later. Just let it hang for now. So you see, the rope that was being used to tie up one end of this package suddenly goes tight. You realise it's attached to something through the ceiling, in a hole in the ceiling. That's very much like a chimney that this rope's coming out of. And slowly, this package is dragged up towards the chimney, towards this shaft. And it bends slightly as it leaves the ground.

And the cloth that's covering it starts to fall off. And you watch as a body of a man is slowly dragged up what looks like this chimney shaft. And you hear one man say, same price as last time. And then there's just the slow swinging of this body upside down. Benjamin Harrison, part one. Ooh. Yeah. Almost like Burke and Hare-esque.

Very, very Burke and Hare-esque. This is very much Resurrection Men. You got that. Oh. Oh, yes. Intrigued? Yes. Is the body Harrison's? yes. Intrigued? Yes. It's the body Harrisons.

I mean. Who knows? So many questions. Who knows? Who knows? I know. And you will too soon. Yay!

Okay, right. Let's do this then. We are with a family that we've seen before because it's the Harrisons. Yay! Yay! So we started William's episode with a man stepping off a boat, Jamestown, right at the start of the American adventure. We went right back to the beginning because the Harrisons have been in America

since America was a thing, according to the European white English settlers anyway. Yeah, yeah. We then had a montage of the family from 1633 up to the War of Independence. So I'm not going to do that again. Go and listen to William's episode if you want to hear more of the family from 1633 up to the War of Independence. So I'm not going to do that again. Go and listen to William's episode if you want to hear more about the family. We'll just do a lot quicker montage. So, a very similar montage just to say everyone's running.

You know, kind of a VHS fast forward thing. Yeah, exactly. A little fast forward things at the bottom but a little wise going through. Yeah, really jerky, quick image of the first benjamin harrison getting a job for the local government to make getting rich then building a plantation that gets thrown up within seconds one of the heads of the family was killed if you remember when lightning struck him as he walked past a window that's very unfortunate that's very

unfortunate steel windows exactly you can see it coming. Then we got Benjamin Harrison 5. They did like the name Benjamin in the Harrison family. Benjamin Harrison 5, who I believe, if I remember correctly, we compared to Brian Blessed. He was 6'4", and gained the nickname The Signer when he signed the Declaration of Independence.

He made jokes about Jerry and his gerrymander, and about Jerry being executed, saying, oh, if if I get executed I'll die quickly because I'm so big but you'll dance around when you're hung oh signing the Declaration of Independence oh he doesn't sound oh yeah and another one where he physically picked up John Hancock

and just plonked him in the chairman's seat because no one could decide who the chairman was going to be it's you yeah exactly so there we go that's benjamin harrison five nice then we looked at benjamin harrison five's son in a lot more detail because that is william harrison the ninth president of the united states we followed him as he trained to be a doctor and then he joined the army and then he headed to the frontier and he got married and started his life in the region. Then in 1804, while territorial governor of the Indiana territory, he and Anna had a son named John Scott. Sounds like something you'd exclaim. John Scott! Yeah. John Scott was the fifth of their ten children, so you would have thought

they'd got used to it by now, but no, apparently it's John Scott on the chart. So William then made a name for himself when he was fighting Tecumseh, remember? Yes, I remember. He's that Native American that was good at stuff. Yes, he was. His brother was called the Prophet. And together they led a rebellion slash war of

independence or freedom depending what you want to call it uh but yeah generally didn't lay down also william makes a name for himself in the war of 1812 so whilst william harrison's making a name for himself as a general john scott is growing up he then meets someone when he's 20 he wrote quickly uh he met someone called Lucretia. They had three children together. Lucretia? That sounds almost like a Roman name. Yeah, yeah, it does. Anyway, they have three children together, and then Lucretia dies at the age of 26. Hope you didn't get attached to her. Oh no, well, it's just blurred. It's like marriage, then just graveside. Yeah, pretty much, unfortunately. I couldn't even find out how she died. Bear mauling.

Oh, nasty. Teddy bear mauling. I haven't got teddy bears yet. Couple of presents off that. Yeah, yeah. Toy bear mauling then. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, John Scott soon met someone else, however, and this was Elizabeth. And the next year, they were married.

By this time, John Scott was running the Harrison family farm in North Bend, Ohio and John Scott and Elizabeth would also have ten children together. Big family was the Harrison family. Like, you'd have to be back then though, wouldn't you? Just half and die. Yeah, unfortunately so. Anyway, the second child of Elizabeth and John Scott was named Benjamin

and this is our Benjamin Harrison. Okay, so William Henry Harrison was Benjamin Harrison's grandfather. Yes, exactly. See, I made the link. Yeah, nice to know nepotism is still fully in force. But we'll find out how that works. Anyway, born in 1833, Benjamin was born in William Henry Harrison's log cabin.

That's the famous log cabin and hard cider log cabin. You remember the campaign? Oh, no. Tip Canoe and Tyler Too. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he liked his hard cider and sitting in his log cabin. Yeah. Yeah.

If you also remember, the so-called log cabin by this point was a huge house because it had been built up upon and extended. You couldn't see any of the logs anymore because they just looked like normal walls. Fair enough. Yeah, so it was a big house because it had been built up upon and extended and you couldn't see any of the logs anymore because they just looked like normal walls. Yeah, so it's a big house. The family that Benjamin were born into, they weren't rich. I mean, William Harrison was obviously doing well for

himself. Well, yeah. But it's a huge family and there's only so much money to go around. So they weren't rich, but they also weren't destitute. If you're reading some of the history books, you do see a lot of Benjamin Harrison bringing himself up from his destitute past. It's like really not convinced.

He had a massive log cabin and a massive farm. Yeah. But again, we'll get into that a bit more later. Anyway, William was obviously a prominent national figure by this point. He was able to pull strings and make favours appear when one of John Scott's brothers died, leaving a huge debt to his family. So the family had a safety net.

They weren't rolling in it, but they knew that if worse comes to worse, a favour or two could be asked for. But that said, I mean, John Scott's running the farm, and the farm's really not making much money. In fact, they are losing money. Little Benjamin grew up on this farm, learning to help out when needed. Learning how to fish and hunt. Two things he enjoyed

doing very much. He'd help clean out the chickens and the pigs. Do other farm things. Milk the goat. Make cheese. People make cheese don't they? Yeah, yeah. His education began when a log cabin, they did love their log cabins, was built on the Harrison's land and

turned into a school for all the children in the area. So the local school was on his land. He'd never leave school. Yeah, not good. Ben took to learning very well. His first teacher is said to have remarked that Ben was the brightest of all the Harrisons, even when he was five years old. Which I don't know whether that's meant to be like compared to all Howsons when they were five or whatever. No, I think. Yeah. At that age.

But I'll quote, even when he was five years old, he was determined to go ahead in everything. Competitive, that's good if you're the president. From an early age, once he knew how to read, Ben would go up to his grandfather's house and look at the books in the extensive library that was there. History books, biography books, novels,

all kinds of books that William Harrison has accumulated throughout his life. A fan of reading as well. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, these books were probably beyond him at this age, but it was something to go and look at. I'm sure some of them had pictures, woodcuts. They probably had woodcuts. Fancy woodcuts. And then he

gets to the grand old age of seven. And little Benjamin is told the news. Grandad is going to be the president of the United States. Yes, splendid. Ben must have realised that his grandad was important and the family were important, but he probably didn't fully understand the uniqueness of what was going on. He didn't attend the inauguration of his grandfather. He stayed home there's too many of them yeah exactly just as well he didn't

attend the inauguration as it was the longest in all of american history and uh it was raining and cold nice yeah oh something just clicked yeah yes it's only a month later that news then reached the family. Grandad was dead. Safety net gone. Little Benjamin probably grew up thinking that being the president was the most dangerous thing in the world. As the country mourned, so did the family. William's body arrived at North Bend and he was buried. Little Ben then carried on with his life.

Now, John Scott was struggling financially more than ever. The family had connections still, but with William dead, the connections were a bit more shaky. And even if they did have some connections and favours they could pull, you can't really eat a favour. It doesn't put food on the table. Still, John Scott was able to put just enough money together to send 14-year-old Ben to Farmer's College near Cincinnati.

He was determined that his son would get an education. Farmer's College? Yeah, it was just the name. It wasn't a college for farmers. Oh, that's what I was hoping, like... I'm guessing. The uniform was Doug Curry's straw hat. It's like, Chad, where's your ear of corn?

Sorry. All right, sit on the bale of hay. Time to learn to milk a cow. Fraser, grab the udders. No, that's not a Chad, where's your ear of corn? Sorry. All right, sit on the bale of hay. Time to learn to milk a cow. Frasier, grab the udders. No, that's not a cow, Ben. That's a bull. Put those down. Is that their international teacher coming?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Infant Bryn. Yeah, well, Ben enjoyed his time at Farmer's College. He had a very religious upbringing. In particular, his mother was very devout and instilled this into her children. So Ben would continue his love for

religion in college, where he was taken under the wing of a man named Professor Bishop. Very religious name, isn't it? It is, but he was not a bishop. He was a Presbyterian minister, which probably confused a lot of people. Yeah, go and see the bishop. What? But, oh. I'm confused. So yeah, Ben gets on with his studies. He was seen as a very able student.

There was a rumour that he was involved in the raiding of the local orchards belonging to the president of the school one day. Oh, scandal. But nothing could actually be proven. So that happened there's another story of the boys filling a keg full of stones and rolling it down a corridor when prayer was supposed to be going on

why would that's not even fun yeah we don't even know if Ben was involved he was probably just praying I mean on my way back home tonight I saw like these secondary school kids pushing each other in trolleys that's fine I understand that rite of passage for a teenager yeah but rolling a barrel of rocks they didn't have trolleys back then though that's true yeah that's true simpler times exactly yeah

so those were two stories that I I got but I don't think Ben was actually involved in them I think Ben just got on with his work while some shenan went on. It seems that he spent his entire time in college praying and studying. Anyway, Bishop set his class difficult tasks, which meant that they had to research American history in detail, and then use facts to formulate ideas. They weren't just going to learn by rote.

They had to come up with their own ideas. We have one piece of writing from Ben at this time. He wrote about America's character using how women were treated to prove how civilised the country was. So, treating women less good than treating

menfolk was seen as refinement. Oh, no, no. I'll read. Oh, thank you. Yeah, okay. Look at the position women occupies in this country. I'm not sure why his voice was like this when he said it. Pray, young developer. Look at the position women occupies in this country. I'm not sure why his voice was like this when he said it. Very young developer. Look at the position.

I'm going for the first one. Look at the position women occupies in this country. Instead of being regarded as a slave far beneath the dignity of man, she is considered a superior being, and in the eyes of many an angel. This is, however, the case only when we

behold them through the telescope of love. Whey. Yeah. Always good to get the phrase telescope of love to any piece of writing. It's Valentine's Day tomorrow. Which, like all other telescopes, has the power of magnifying objects.

Ooh. If you say so, Benjamin. And perhaps this possesses the power to a greater degree than any other. But whether we behold them through this glass or any other, she still appears worthy of the exalted position that she occupies. So, there you go.

We treat women so amazingly well we are such a civilized country. Which I think tells us more about the relative comfort of Ben's family and the life that he was living more than the nature of the country, to be honest. Yeah, I think you might be right there. Yeah, I'm sure that this would have been news to a majority of women living in America at the time. What the bloody hell do you mean? Yeah. Still, there was one reason why he was talking about his telescope of love. Because he had met the daughter of another minister and professor at the college. Her name was Caroline, or Carrie.

And soon, the two were spending a lot of time with each other. Can I see some stargazing? Might see a shooting star tonight. Yeah, that kind of thing. Now, towards the end of his studies, there is one story which I know will interest you. Are you ready for this? I'm all ears. One day, a disappointed John Scott opened a letter from Farmers College

only to find, to his utter disgust, that Benjamin had been eating forbidden cucumbers. Oh my goodness. I know. What a fool. Why was he eating the forbidden cucumbers? I've been painting this picture as if he was almost boring at college. And then suddenly right at the end we find out... Oh, it's a curveball. I know, I know.

Well, let me continue. His sisters, who were already not happy with Benjamin because he wasn't writing home enough, they sent a letter to Ben's older brother, who was also at Farmer's College, just to tell Ben's brother to tell Ben off. Yeah. I'll quote, Tell Benja if he doesn't write me, we will scratch him out of our books.

That's how one letter ended. But there was a postscript. P.S. Tell Ben Pa is quite hurt to think that he continues to eat cucumbers, notwithstanding his advice, and often said that he cannot account for his not writing, What's wrong with cucumbers? PPS. What's up with cucumbers? prudent in your diet and that Benja may abstain from cucumbers. Banish them from the table so Ben may not be tempted.

What's up with cucumbers? Jamie? Yeah? I wish I could tell you. I have no idea. That's phenomenal. No, I'm lost. I did try and do this and it turns out if you type in forbidden cucumber to Google, you don't get, or at least I didn't get what I'm lost. I did try and do this, and it turns out if you type in forbidden cucumber to Google, you don't get, or at least I didn't get what I was after.

Satisfying, though. Is this a serious dietary concern? Maybe cucumbers were suspected of... Because they're mostly water, so... Maybe that people thought that you would get ill. No, they hang, don't they? Is this, I mean, these were they hang don't they is this i mean these were very deeply religious people is this a phallic thing it might be a fact it might just

be a phallic thing or is it just a weird thing that farmers college wrote home about and benjamin sisters found it as hilarious as we do and uh just started writing back taking the mick basically kept talking about how bored they were about the cucumbers. I don't know. Oh, see, I would love that if that was probably the case. Yeah. For the love of God, don't eat the cucumbers! But there we go. I was worried.

Some people have said, it's like, how are you going to make Benjamin Harrison interesting? He's known for being one of the most boring presidents. We found it. The man eats the forbidden cucumber. Yeah. Or he's now got a habit, though. He's got a powder cucumber in his pocket.

Every now and again. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah, just from now on, just imagine a cucumber in his pocket. Okay. For emergencies. How do you think they thought about marrows and carrots?

Got a marrow. That's more than forbidden. Yeah, well, if it was a joke, which, like you say, I really hope it was a joke, and his sisters found it as funny as we do, the mood suddenly turned very serious. No, seriously, put away the cucumber.

No, illness swept through the family at North Bend. Ben's mother and two of his siblings died. Oh, wow. Yeah. Ben wrote to Bishop, The hand of God has indeed been pressing sorely on our little household. Oh.

Anyway, Ben's 17 by this point, and he goes to Miami University in Oxford. What? Which obviously is in Ohio. Oh yeah? We've come across the Miami before. Miami were a Native American tribe. Oh yes! From the Ohio region.

And then obviously Oxford is just a name stolen from England as people went over. Because they can't make up their own. Or maybe someone was fording an ox. Who knows? Wow. As in, like, fording a river. I should probably say with an ox, not actually fording the ox. No, I think you should ford the ox. Okay. Anyway, Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, was a sudden move for Ben. There were a couple of reasons why he wanted to move, though, because he was doing well in farmer's college. You can now tell the difference between a cow and a bull and a chicken and a goat you can't milk a chicken exactly the main reason

why he wanted to move uh to miami university was that carrie had moved to a girls college in the area and uh it's very boring stargazing on your own i mean common uh for students but just not as fun yeah it's always better to stargaze with somebody else. Yeah. Now, Ben had been home for a few months with his mourning family, but at last he leaves the very sad household behind him. And he did very well in Miami as well. He soon became president of the Literacy Society.

He became more aware of politics at this time. The Compromise of 1850 had just come through. Ben thought it was a very good compromise. It would keep the country together. Yep. Yeah, moles be damned. So while continuing his studies, Ben starts to think about his future.

There were two things he thinks he could do well. Number one, obviously, become a lawyer. Yeah, because that's what everyone does in our podcast. Yeah. Number two. Priest, vicar, bishop, something like that. Join the ministry. Yes, exactly. Those are one of the two things he wants to do. He felt the call to do God's work,

but he also really wanted to be a lawyer. It's like, I do feel the call. Or I could get rich. Son, you can do God's work. We can help the lame, give advice to people that truly need it. Or you can waste your life, countless amounts of money and endless parties and drinking. What would you...

Oh, you've gone. Damn. Every recruitment drive. It was fine, though. Benjamin had a justification for this He said in a speech to his fellow students apparently I'd like to think this was not a planned speech

I'd like to think he just stood up on a chair one day and was like, right, everyone listen to me Everybody, everybody, what a speech Like you ought to know, but I've decided to become a lawyer But, but, bear with me Before he gets angry Who are you? He stated that he was going to become a lawyer because he disliked the, and I quote,

proposition that no honest or pious man can practice the law with success. Oh, so he's putting it as a challenge to himself. Yeah, everyone says lawyers are all corrupt. So he was going to become a lawyer to prove that you don't have to be corrupt. Yeah, nothing to do with the tons of cash and the women and the alcohol and the drugs. That's the life of a lawyer back then. I'm pretty sure it is.

That's in the films. Definitely. It was just the rock star lifestyle. Anyway, he knows what he's going to do now. So he graduates. He does well enough, not amazingly But he graduates By this time, he and Carrie were engaged

However, Ben's not going to marry Until he can support his new family This meant passing the bar And getting the job as a lawyer No marriage until then So, how can he become a lawyer? Limbo Pass the bar

Oh, well done. Thank you. Have a ranking point. Yes. Well, if the family contacts had not put food on the table when he was a boy, well, they certainly kick in now. This is when it's good to know people. John Scott introduced Ben to a prominent Cincinnati lawyer and former congressman.

The story plays out as we have seen time and again in this podcast. Ben becomes the dog's body of the office. He disliked the tedious work. He felt like he was being used. But slowly but surely he learns the trade. Yeah. However, if you've got that montage going on. Yeah. Just suddenly cut halfway through the montage. I mean, he's still not got to the point where he can pick up the books with one hand yet. He's still having to use two hands. Yeah. So you know the montage isn't over. It suddenly stops and then he just tuts to himself and walks out. Oh. He's not giving up on being a lawyer, but the tedium of the work did chip away

at his resolve. He'd promised himself that he was going to be a lawyer before he married Carrie. But maybe just working in a lawyer's office counted. Maybe. He's still staring at those stars on his own at night. They're long nights.

So he's gonna see if he can go and marry Carrie. It would just make things a lot nicer. It did, yeah, Geoff. So he goes and to see if he can go and marry Carrie. It would just make things a lot nicer. It did, yeah, Geoff. So he goes and pays Carrie's father a visit and assures him that he would be able to support his daughter. Definitely. I know I'm on a pittance for a wage right now, but don't worry.

I've got it sorted. I've got a plan. After all, he was determined to succeed. And everyone knew in America at this time, as long as you worked hard and you were determined to succeed you did. You would. As long as you were rich. Well this works. Here's one benefit of the American dream

you can say things like but I'll succeed because I want to and people go oh yeah. I wonder how much that would work. How far do you get away with that mindset? I don't know. Anyway this works and in 1853 Benjamin and Carrie were married.

And Carrie was pregnant within days. A lot of stargazing that night. Oh, yes. Not long afterwards, Ben passed the bar. He's suddenly already ego-ing. Yeah. He skipped to work that morning. Whistled his way into the office.

Just flew through the paperwork. There's a certain change in him. I'd quite put a finger on what. Anyway, he was determined to get out of Cincinnati. However, he really was fed up of working in that lawyer's office. He did feel hard done by. And he'd just grown to loathe the entire city during his training. So he was going to go and make his own way in the world.

So the Harrisons moved to Indianapolis. He had a cousin there who happened to be a prominent businessman and politician. Of course he did. So that helps. He's making his own way. Yes, exactly. Ben set up his lawyer firm, but Carrie stayed at home with her parents for the rest of the pregnancy. Because it's always good to be near mum when you're pregnant for the first time.

Makes sense. Ben hasn't got a clue what's going on. I'm not even sure I got there, to be honest. We were literally stargazing. However, in 1854, when little baby Russell was born, they moved and their family were reunited once more. So there you go, you've got a little family. The law firm was going slowly.

To begin with, he gained a few cases, but nothing worth writing home about. Ben started to despair. I mean, his plan was really clear. He was determined to succeed, but it turns out that it was actually a bit harder than that. Also, the market seems really saturated of lawyers this time, doesn't it? Everyone and their dogs are lawyers.

There are definitely a few lawyers, but don't forget that is mainly because we look at presidents, and presidents tend to be ex-lawyers, so we do have a certain bias there. Fair enough. I'm guessing to every farmer you probably got only about 10 lawyers. But then in 1855,

a successful local attorney was in need of a partner. His name was William Wallace. Hey. Now I did... I escaped that a few years ago. I did do some checking. And although it seems unlikely that this is the same William Wallace

that fought for the freedom of Scotland from England in the 13th century and also starred in the documentary, the well-known documentary known as Braveheart, I found nothing to defiantly state that this is not the same man. So I think we can probably assume it's the same man. I think we can. Yeah. William Wallace. Same face makeup.

But he's just a lawyer now. Yeah. But he tattered suit. Same very angry accent. Same weird Australian mix with Scottish. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, William Wallace apparently needed someone to look after the day-to-day running of his firm for a while. Hey, I need a skivvy.

Because, well, he was busy. I did think to look into what, but then I realised, well, obviously it's fighting the English. Of course, yeah. So he's off to earn his freedom. So he was there in his kilt, chopping wood in the back garden whilst explaining to Harrison. He just needs to look after the business for a bit because he's off to go and chop off some English heads. Whilst at the same time giving little intricacies towards lawyering as well. Yeah of course yeah. I don't forget subparagraph

three. Anyway Benjamin jumped at this chance who wouldn't want to work for William Wallace. He had connections and being partnered with him would bring in a lot of work. I mean, the star power alone. Yeah, exactly. And this works. Over the next few years, business goes really well. The Harrisons have another child, a daughter this time. Benjamin also starts being even more involved in the

church than he already was. Isn't it weird that, like, every time he has another child, he seems to do really, really well? Yeah. There's a correlation here. There definitely is. He was made a deacon at this point. of weird that like every time he has another child he seems to do really really well yeah there's a correlation here there definitely is uh he was made a deacon at this point deacon yeah he's a bit of a yeah he's very much involved in church life uh in fact his whole life revolves around the church and the law and occasionally burying the bodies of dead english men i got another one for you.

They keep popping up. I found this one in the corridor. Cut his head clean off. I was going to say our Scottish accents are really bad, but so was William Wallace's. I've seen the documentary. Well, exactly. So it's fine.

Anyway, so everything is going well. Life is good is what I'm trying to say here. However, it was hard not to be dragged into politics in the late 1850s. The Whigs, the party of his grandfather, remember, collapsed. And in its place was a selection of new parties, but the most prominent, as we have seen, were the Know-Nothings and the Republicans. Now, his father, John Scott, has had a busy life that we've not really been covering, because in the last five or six years or so, he'd started his own career in politics after being a struggling farmer. Oh.

Yeah. Why not? Again, connections. He'd just finished a term in Congress. However, upon the death of the Whig Party, John Scott looked around for a new political home. He wrote to his son, letting him know that the American Party seemed to have the right idea. The American Party. Oh, yes.

Know-nothings would replace the Whigs opposing the Dems. Understand that, son, was the tone of the letter. Benjamin, however, was less sure. The know-nothings were a tad racist, Benjamin thought. A little bit bigoted, quite angry. Didn't he support the compromise, though? Yeah, but there's a difference between supporting the compromise because you think we need to compromise

and just blaming immigrants for everything. That is, yeah. So, anyway, perhaps the Republicans would be a better fit, he thought. So there you go, you've got father and son going in opposite ways politically. Aye. And William Wallace in the background. Good on you, son. The Republican candidate in the upcoming election,

Vermont, did not do well, nor did the know-nothing former president, Fillmore. Instead, as we've seen, the Democratic Buchanan won. Oh, yeah. Much to everyone's dismay. We're quite far back, aren't we? Yeah, we're just before the war. He must be quite old when he was president. Yeah, yeah. He's getting on a bit by that point, yeah.

Now, Benjamin was disappointed, but by this point, he had the politics bug. He wanted to get involved, so he decides to run for office, or at least an office. This is city attorney for Indianapolis, which he gets, which is good. And then he becomes the secretary of the Republican State Committee.

So he's getting high up in the state Republican Party. By this time, the Republicans were starting to take note of this lawyer chap called Abraham Lincoln, who was making the right noises. And Harrison started campaigning for Lincoln, delivering speeches, raving against the, and I quote, slavery oligarchy in Washington. At this point, John Scott sent his son a letter complaining

that Benjamin needed to watch his rhetoric. He said that your grandfather's friends would be offended by the way you're talking about them. Yeah. Still, Benjamin campaigned. Yeah. It's like, don't care. Screw you. Yeah, he was campaigning not just for Lincoln, but he was also running for the reporter of the state Supreme Court position,

which sounds very nice. Very fancy. Very fancy. It's basically the man responsible for publishing the decisions of the court. So you just type up what they've said. Yeah. Hand it out on the steps outside, maybe. That sounds great. A bit of good

responsibility, though. Yeah, yeah. Essentially whatever you type is what is down on record. That's a very good point, yes. It's quite a responsibility, isn't it? Yeah, it is. So, yeah. So, local politics is essentially what I'm saying here. And things go well, both for Lincoln and Harrison, because they both win their elections.

Lincoln becomes the President of the United States and Harrison can now type up his reports. Yay. Benjamin went to go and listen to Lincoln speak as he was on his way to Washington and was very impressed. A lot of rambling stories, but other than that, pretty good. Yeah, pretty good. And then, as we all know, war broke out.

Benjamin decides not to sign up. Well, he's... A Christian is probably more of a pacifistic view. Oh, not necessarily. No. Certainly not. Kill that! He's worked with William Wallace a while, hasn't he?

Well, we'll get to that, don't worry. At this time in America, yeah, being Christian certainly would not mean you were necessarily pacifist. It was more the fact that Carrie was pregnant again. Plus, Benjamin had one of his brothers and nephews living with him at the time, dependent on his income. So there were quite a few people dependent on him. He didn't feel like he should just rush off and fight in a war

that was probably going to be over soon anyway. After all, how can the North lose this? We're so much more powerful than the South. Yeah, be over by Christmas. Exactly. Then, however, the daughter who Carrie was pregnant with died in childbirth.

Yeah, the family were devastated. The war seemed of less importance to them than the personal tragedy that had just occurred. However, after a year of fighting, it became clear to everyone that this war's not going away any time soon, and pressure was started to be put on the men of Indianapolis

to sign up. The governor of the state had called out through the papers for men to defend their homeland. Come on, guys. What are you doing? This is a real war. We need to go and fight. Now, it just so happened that the next day, Benjamin and William Wallace were due to meet the governor

about some other business. Nothing to do with signing up for the war. Probably William Wallace wanted to talk about the encroachment of the English or something. Hey, they're way more of a problem than the sooth. Yeah. Now, when they arrived at the governor's office, they found the governor in a despondent mood. He was looking out of his window a building being built opposite the office they were stood in and he was wondering out loud how men could happily build buildings knowing that the country was being destroyed so why are you building that for it's like we could lose everything unless we win

this war a bit of a pessimist you can tell there's a glass of whiskey in his hand a cigar leaning against the window, yeah. You know, tie slightly undone. Now, Benjamin looked at the governor and he felt like he was being rebuked. Took this personally he did. And he caved probably to the governor's ploy, to be

honest, and replied, and I quote, Governor, if I can be of any service, I will go. The governor turned hope in his eyes. Now our fortunes will change. Well, he said, you can raise a regiment in this congressional district right away, but it is asking too much of you to go into the field with it. You have just been elected reporter of the Supreme Court.

Benjamin replied that if he was going to raise a regiment, he would also lead it. But you have no military experience. What a ridiculous idea. Close. Wonderful. You can have the rank of second lieutenant. Oh, for goodness sake. So Benjamin headed to his office,

took a detour. He and Wallace stopped by, picked up a flag and a drummer boy from the flag and a drummer boy from the flag and drummer boy shop, I can only assume. Great selection today, lads. This one is only 12, but he'll

drum his arms off if he needs to. Alright? Yep. Hey, can he sing? He can sing as well. So, they took the flag back to Benjamin's law office with benjamin sing come they call me the drummer william just singing auld lang syne yeah they hang up the flag and william wallace was his first recruit i know a thing or two about fighting. Let me just get my claymore.

And me bagpipes. Just swinging an axe on his shoulder. His face is already half blue because it's always half blue. But he's put a fresh coat of blue on his face. What a guy. You don't need your undershirts as well. In fact, Williamh is very keen Very keen

There's a spark in his eye that Benjamin's not seen before We're off to fight the south The south of England Yes at Somerset Wonderful Yeah so Benjamin spent a whole day recruiting And then went home

To tell Carrie that he was off to war But our daughter's just died It was about a year ago By this point recruiting um and then went home to tell carrie that he was off to war but our daughters just died it was about a year ago by this point that's what he said she didn't know no no it was a year ago it's fine love don't worry about it yeah anyway within a month he was the colonel of the 70th indiana volunteer regiment bloody colonel oh yes a colonel. So, he sets off with his men to war, writing to Carrie, asking that she pray to God, asking that, and I will quote,

he will enable me to be a good soldier of Jesus Christ. Which just puts me in mind of the South Asian army. Oh, just no. No, you can't kill people as i say not really the pacifist route no not really no i hope i can kill people and they'd know it was done with god's touch

yeah and that they deserved it for the next year and a half harrison's regiment performed guard duty and garrison duty oh Oh, splendid. In Kentucky and Tennessee. They didn't really see any action. Nothing much was going on. The regiment was untrained and it showed. Did every day in life like William Wallace come back every night covered in blood and just like, Hey, that was great. I slaughtered 18 of them. We are miles away from the front line.

Hey, we've got no time to go into that minutiae let's clean the parts see how some of us slightly worried look on his face he's starting to worry should he be checking on this but it's really not my job it's not really my remit yeah um but the problem with the with the regiment was everyone kind of knew each other because everyone was recruited from the same place and they weren't really seeing any action. So it seemed a bit like a holiday. And everyone was just messing about, basically.

So in order to attempt to bring his men into line, Harrison adopted a strict regime. Alcohol was banned outright from the camp. Drilling took place almost non-stop. Colonel Harrison soon noticed his superiors starting to take note. Oh, good regime going on there. Good training. That's fantastic.

Pot scrubbing. Yeah. But he also noticed that his men were starting to grumble. It soon became common for his men to duck out of camp just to find some booze. It was then noticed by his superiors would often find his men just out drunk somewhere. He was losing discipline. He was perhaps hammered down a bit too hard and people were resenting him for it. He wrote home to describe one of the troublemakers to Carrie. He is a blatant infidel who hates me for the religious influence I attempt to exert

over the regiment. Yeah, you know that whilst he's doing all the drills, he's got a Bible in hand and he's quoting scripture and... Oh. Yeah. Ten Bibles on their backs are doing push-ups. Maybe that. Eventually

though, the regiment was brought under some sense of order. After a long time of doing very little, the regiment were then called up to serve under Sherman and his campaign to take Atlanta. It actually looked like they were going to see some fighting for the first time. He wrote to Carrie, You will perhaps like to know how I feel on the eve of my first great battle. Well, I do not feel in the

least excited, nor in any sense shrinking. I am in my usual good spirits, though not at all insensible to the grave responsibilities and risks which I must bear tomorrow. Should I be numbered amongst the slain, let your grief be tempered by the consolation that I died for my country and in Christ. If God gives me strength, I mean to bear myself bravely come what will, so you may have no cause to blush for me, though you should be forced to mourn. So that was a nice letter.

Yeah. It must have been hard for Cary to read. Yeah. Yeah, but there you go. He's going to do his best. Yeah. He doesn't want to embarrass anyone. No.

Most of his men are sober now. Hopefully he'll be best. Yeah. He doesn't want to embarrass anyone. No. Most of his men are sober now. Hopefully he'll be fine. Yeah. He never did any point did he try and take the whiskey off William, though. No. William, I want to ask you about your whiskey intake. I can do more if you want. I can double it.

Anyway, Harrison did well the following day. He was in the thick of fighting the Battle of Resica. He was ordered to take a hill that was being held by Confederate forces. However, he and his men were soon caught out of position, thanks to the maneuvering of other troops. They found themselves needing to climb a very steep slope of this hill in full view of Confederate forces. Well, they shouldn't have started singing hymns on the way up.

Well, I'll quote. It was very steep, and I could only get up the hill by pulling roots and bushes. You would better believe I scrambled up pretty fast. The sharpshooters did not fail to pay their compliments to me all the way up. Ooh. So there they are being shot at, but in the end, Harrison was able to lead his men to the

top of the hill. They took the enemy guns. But that was not the end of it, because the Confederate troops rallied and attempted to take the guns back. I strove in vain to rally my men under the enemy's fire on the hillside, and finally followed them into a partially shouted place behind a ridge on our left, preparing to lead them again to the support of those who still held the guns that we had captured. So, he's there, he's trying to rally the men. Harrison was seen waving his sword with one hand, his revolver in another,

attempting to just keep his men under order. Because everyone's starting to scatter a bit and it's all becoming a bit unclear. Yeah, yeah. Which is understandable in the thick of the fighting. However, eventually order was restored by Harrison and the hill was kept. They took the guns. Fighting continued until nightfall and eventually the Confederate forces retreated.

The Union forces had won. The next day, the reality of the death toll hit Harrison because the dead were collected. But what made it worse was that a fire had broken out in the nearby woods where fighting was also taking place. Many of our dead were horribly burned, which gave additional ghastliness to their stiffened corpses. So they spent a day just pulling out charred bodies to bury them. Nice. Nasty. Whilst doing this, Harrison was worried that he was going to get into trouble

for the fighting the day before because he almost lost control of his men and almost lost the guns. But it turns out his superiors were more than pleased with the outcome. Hey, you've won. We don't care. Yeah, you've won. Of course, it was hard. It's war. It's going to be hard. But you kept it under control, so well done. So actually, yeah, he got a pat on the back.

But better than that, his men, as much as they grumbled about Harrison, well, actually, Harrison had proved himself in the fighting. And all of a sudden, they were a lot closer. As seeing actual action in war does bond people quite strongly. Also, it reminds me of Band of Brothers, where they got the rost from friends. Yeah. Like, really forced them.

But after the war, all the interviews with the soldiers afterwards, you're saying, actually, that training, you know, despite it being horrible, made us better and kept us alive. Turns out that being drunk wasn't a good idea. Wallace is fine, though. But he probably napped all the way through the fighting.

I'll be honest, whilst doing my research, it's like, but where's William Wallace? Where's William Wallace? And I couldn't figure out whether he actually went with Harrison. And I finally found one small little note of him. It's like, yeah, so he is still with him. He was in the middle of this battle, tossing logs he was.

Oh, just swinging a caber around. Yeah. What a guy. He disappeared for a while, and everyone was unsure what was going on and then all of a sudden just coming over the hills with hundreds of Scottish tribesmen. Where the hell did you get them from?

I just popped home. Hey, on the beginning of the third day look to the east. Anyway, the fighting then continues. Sherman presses on. There's then a lot of fighting. I certainly have not got time to cover it.

Just know there's a lot of fighting. In fact, one of his biographers, Henry Seavers, wrote in the 1960s. I'll quote the historian here. In less than a month, Benjamin Harrison was destined to engage in more battles than either William Henry Harrison, his grandfather, or Andrew Jackson had fought in their entire lifetimes. There's a lot of fighting going on. Wow, yeah. And this was hard fighting.

I'll give you a description of one of the many, many battles that Harrison was involved in. This is another letter written to Carrie. Carrie must love these letters so much. I almost died today, darling. How are you? They really do read like that, yeah. My regiment was advanced without any support to within 300 yards of a strong rebel breastwork

where they had eight pieces in position and nicely covered, and we were being entirely exposed. We stood there fighting an unseen foe for an hour and a half without flinching, while the enemy's shells and grapes fell like hail in our ranks, tearing down large trees and filling the air with splinters. Two or three of my men had their heads torn off down to their shoulders,

and others had fearful wounds. Love and kisses. Sleep well, darling. Yeah. I think when he came home, he said, ah, Caroline, how are you? You look very grey. Well, when Harrison was finally recalled

from the front line, they realised that they had been separated from a large portion of their forces. And this was a portion that had all of the surgeons in. so they needed medical help but there were no there were no surgeons available so harrison and this is where i came across wallace again because harrison and wallace did what they could wallace had some old remedies passed down from scotsman to scotsman got some old remedies for you. Yeah. Bite this bark. That's an axe.

Aye. That's what makes you a faggot. Because you'll want to. Yeah, so the two of them rolled up their sleeves and got stuck in. I quote again a letter to Carrie. I was but an awkward surgeon, of course.

But I hope I gave them some relief. Quick death. There were some ghastly wounds. I pulled out of one poor fellow's arm a splinter five or six inches long and as thick as three of my fingers. That's not a splinter!

That's a chunk of wood. Oh my goodness. Yeah. This is full on Bastogne, kind of, from Band of Brothers, if we're talking about Band of Brothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is nasty. Very nasty. It's not long before Harrison gets a promotion.

He keeps his head under pressure, and he keeps running his regiment. In fact, soon, he was leading four regiments, including the one he started with. More fighting follows. Another promise of promotion. Once the immediate fighting has stopped, we'll promote you again, basically. Eventually, they reach Atlanta. And then suddenly things slow down.

The siege was not to Harrison's tastes. He wanted to get it over with and just go home. He's a bit fed up of it all by this point. He's stared death right in the face for quite some time now. It's like, I've got to get out of this soon, otherwise my luck will run out. He writes again to Carrie, My life drags along very

wearily now. The ceaseless care and watching, together with the hardship of this campaign of over a hundred days, has exhausted a good deal of my mental and nervous energy. And when not worked up by some unusual danger or responsibility, I feel a little depressed and homesick.

Oh. Yeah. So unless I'm literally being shot at, I'm just depressed. Yeah. But you think just Caroline's writing back, stop sending letters. Please, just stop. Or if you do, just say, all's well with me. Yeah.

Hope all's well with you. Yeah. You will not be surprised that carrie starts to get a bit stressed and in fact gets quite ill yeah uh harrison then gets a taste of what carrie must have gone through during the war when he gets a letter saying that carrie was so ill it looked like she might die so pf for love of god stop sending letters well har Harrison started to attempt to see if he could get home to see his wife, but they were in the middle of a siege. He was kind of needed.

Fortunately, he received word not too long afterwards, however, that Carrie was recovering. He still wanted to get home, but at least the immediate threat was gone. And a couple of weeks later, Atlanta fell. And Harrison, who had let it be known that he wanted to get back to his wife, was given a job. Your job, very important this, go back to Indiana and let the governor there know how we've done. Recruit some more men while you're there and then come back.

In other words, you've earned it, go and see your family. The journey home, however, was more eventful than he would have hoped for because he got on a boat that was travelling up the Ohio River. This is just a civilian boat. Obviously, there's lots of military people around during the Civil War, but this was just a normal civilian boat. Had a few soldiers on it, but they're just travelling up the Ohio River. Up the river they go, and then suddenly gunshots are heard.

And then the civilians on the boat start to panic because they realise the boat is being fired upon. Someone's trying to rob the boat, or maybe someone spotted the soldiers and just started... Pirates. Pirates. That's what it is. It's pirates.

And the pirates. Yeah, so most people were panicking. One passenger, however, recalls seeing Harrison. And I quote, A revolver in each hand, blazing away with great enthusiasm and vigour at the people on the shore. So, yeah, Harrison's been through some bleep. So he's not taking this anymore.

For the love of people, I'm going to... Yeah, he's just stood one leg on the rail, one foot up on the rail of the boat. Townie's chest are every shot. Come on! Come on! Kill me! He's been hanging around with William Wallace for quite some time. It's rubbed off on him.

But now William's at the side with a shot of whiskey going, hey, that's too much. Yeah. Anyway, he was rejoined with his family and while at home he campaigned for the re-election of Lincoln. So he did a bit of like politics. Lincoln won the re-election as we saw in his episode. At least he'll fall

a sea of silver, fall two terms which is nice. Yeah and Harrison after a good break seeing his family he's rested, carries now well again so he decides it's time to get back to his men. He's feeling guilty, They're still fighting. You know how you've now recovered. Bit of news. However, on his way back to his men, he received orders that actually he needed to lead a brigade in Tennessee in order to block a southern counter-offensive.

So, we need you somewhere else, Harrison. So go and take over this brigade. He took charge of some men who he didn't know and they weren't very well trained or if they were well trained they were injured from previous fighting. Ragtag bunch of men.

It's not the men he bonded with. Warm. PTSD. Exactly. It wasn't great. He didn't enjoy it. There was some fighting defending Nashville but it's not quite what he'd experienced before And then he was given leave again. What's that finished said? What do you want to go and visit your family again? Yeah, okay then

So he does that says hello to Carrie, but then no really he's going back to his men this time Time to go at least that was the plan because scar scarlet fever then hits. And he gets ill. Quite severely ill. He spends several weeks recovering from this. Scarlet fever, gosh. Yeah, not nice. Eventually he manages to pull through the illness. And at last he's on his way.

He's going to go to North Carolina. He's going to get to his men and Sherman. The journey took a while, as you can imagine. It's a long distance to go. And also, quite often when he was passing through places, he was given official orders to go and do something else that needed to be picked up. At some point, he heard that General Lee had surrendered to Grant.

Oh, yeah. It looked like the war was actually going to end. So he was going to finally get back to his men, but the war was over. But he's still going. He wants to go and see his men. Eventually, he arrives at the headquarters that he was aiming for, and he noted an odd air about the camp. All very strange. Very quiet. Not what you'd expect in a military camp. No one seemed to notice his return. No one seemed to pay him any attention. They were all listening to the news that was being spread.

Lincoln had been assassinated. Yeah. Soon afterwards, Harrison was back home. The war's over. He settled back into civilian life. He had his law firm, but politics was where his heart lay now.

So he's going to do something with politics. I'm just going to point it out now. That's it for William Wallace. What? Yeah, William Wallace. He's still around, don't worry. He didn't die. I think he's following around the entire time.

That's my now view of him. Okay. Even in the White House as president, he's just like, Don't worry. They're still friends. They remain firm friends for life. So, okay, yeah, he's just like, don't worry, sir. They're still friends. They remain firm friends for life. So, okay, yeah, he's hanging around. He's hanging around.

I think the background account. That's the best. Yeah. I'm starting to get the accent. So I need to keep it up. Fair enough. Anyway, Harrison was now well known enough that he decides to run for governor.

He did not win. I mean, he was popular, but a friend of the old governor had also ran and, you know, come on. Yeah. Democracy. So it's back to the law. Then the panic of 1873 comes along. Many start to struggle.

If you've just got a regular, normal job, it was harder to put food on the table. He's now 40 as well. just got a regular normal job, it was harder to put food on the table. He's now 40 as well. If you happen to work in a business that could take advantage of other people suddenly needing lots of legal problems to be sorted, however,

you could actually do quite well. Yeah. In fact, the Harrisons really start doing well. A lot of work comes in. He and Carrie have a new house built in a very fancy part of town. This is a large mansion of a house. Sixteen rooms.

It's still there today. You can go and look around it. Sixteen rooms. Yeah, yeah. Really big grand house. Harrison went on to say around this time that a bit of financial panic was a good thing because people were in too much of a hurry to get rich nowadays, he said, standing on the porch of his new mansion. It's because people were in too much of a hurry to get rich nowadays, he said,

standing on the porch of his new mansion. It's like people are in a rush to get rich. You need to slow things down. You need to work up throughout your whole life to achieve things. Right. Yeah. Which I'm sure was the message that most people started struggling to eat at the time wanted to hear. Yeah. Thanks. Anyway, he carries on being a lawyer. He was partly involved in one of the national scandals of the day, the Whiskey Ring. Well, you know whose problem that was. Well, yeah, definitely. Harrison represented a man named Brownlee, who was an internal revenue inspector who was accused of taking bribes from a whiskey distiller. The whiskey distiller had agreed to spill the beans and turn for a lighter sentence

and said, yeah, I was paying that guy. As the distiller gave details in court, he made a big deal of describing the scene of paying the bribes down to the minute details. He even said that Brownlee was wearing kid gloves because he was off to a wedding afterwards. However, Harrison was then able to find a witness that claimed that Brownlee had no gloves during the wedding. And because of that one detail about a glove, the whole case falls apart. Interestingly, you'll probably just go yeah obviously, as most people listening probably will. Whilst doing this research was the first time I realized the phrase treating things with kid gloves does not

mean child gloves, it means fancy gloves made out of kid skin as in goat so you're being really delicate because they're really fancy gloves i didn't do you know i never even heard that phrase before oh do you not yeah no yeah it was whilst i was reading this it's like kid gloves oh of course like goat skin yeah because they're used a lot wasn't it used for like for breaches in the 1700s, as the fancy, soft kind. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, treating it with kid gloves. Fancy gloves, not children's gloves.

Not like mittens. Pretty hard to pick up a bottle of whiskey with that, wasn't it? I'm sure many people are listening to this going, yeah, obviously. But it's the first time I'd thought about it. Of course. So he's doing all right as a lawyer. He's raking in the money.

Everything's looking good once more. He's gone through the horrors of war, but everything's good again. Yeah. His name is now high up in the Republican Party, certainly at a state level. So he decides for a second time to run for governor. He doesn't win. He's not doing well at that, is he? No.

The campaign was a tough one. The Democrats made a big deal about Harrison loving kid gloves, you know, from the trial. And kid gloves aristocracy. And, yeah, he's just a member of the elite. That's all he is. Oh, nothing changes. Yeah, it really doesn't. And the trouble is you get people like the rich, influential people saying, oh, don't trust the elite.

Oh, yeah. For goodness sake. Sorry, rant. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. For goodness sake. Sorry, rant. Yeah. So, yeah, he loses. But he had impressed many in the party, and he was approached by a man, or by many, and asked to go campaigning for Hayes. Hayes happened to be the next Republican nominee. Oh, Hayes.

Hayes. Oh. Splendid, thought Harrison. Lovely. Wonderful. Yeah. Hayes won, obviously Splendid, thought Harrison. Lovely. Wonderful. Yeah. Hayes won, obviously, because he wouldn't vote for him. And Harrison's name was noted throughout the party.

Harrison's all right at this campaigning. He gives good speech, does Harrison. Yeah. Yeah. Nationally, in the party, people are noticing him. Back home in Indiana, the rail strikes start up. These aren't the same ones that I mentioned last time in the Cleveland's episode. This is earlier on

in time. But essentially it's the same story. The same very depressing story of people trying to make a living and just being squashed by powerful businessmen. So is this, with Hayes, this is almost the beginning of the Gilded Age, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. We're hitting that area definitely. Anyway, Harrison and many other prominent members of Indiana society set up an ad hoc military company just to make sure that the strikers didn't, you know, become too disruptive. Like, militia

style? Yeah. Oh dear. Yeah. It's let's squash these strikers. In fact the state set up a committee of arbitration. How fair was that? Oh wonderfully wonderfully. Yeah. It settled some disputes. You can say that.

Yeah. Yeah. Harrison served on this committee in one meeting Harrison accused the strikers of I and I quote here, putting their hands on the throats of commerce and destroying property by stopping the movement of freight. See, I would argue, I mean, you could really judge Harrison for that view. Yeah. But it's also not an unfair view to have.

But to have that view, you'd also have to not have an understanding of their point of view as well. There is nothing factually incorrect about what Harrison said. They are putting their hands on the throats of commerce, and they are destroying property by stopping the movement of freight. That's the whole point. They're doing that because they are trying to highlight the fact that they are being exploited. Do you think Harrison's shielded, he's just coldly don't care? I've been through enough. I've seen enough. Yeah, he's

rich and arguably, and maybe I'm being slightly unfair here, but possibly the worst kind of rich person. Oh no. In the sense that he genuinely thinks he was really poor to begin with and he's worked his way up from nothing. The fact that his grandad was literally the president of the United States,

that has nothing to do with him succeeding in life. Hard work, that's what got him there. Do you remember his plan? He was going to work hard and succeed, and he worked hard and he succeeded. The American dream. Exactly. Nothing to do with all the favours he was able to pull.

So he probably struggles to understand that other people just weren't succeeding. But maybe I'm being unfair there, because I've got no actual evidence for that. No. That's the feeling I get. No, it's not unfair, judgment, I don't think. So yeah, as you can imagine, this doesn't go down well with the strikers. No, no way.

But as we've seen, the government, state and national, plus these personal militias of the rich in the area striking, led to strikes being put down. Harrison's firm stance against the strikers won him renown in some areas of society, the rich and powerful areas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not with the common man and woman. No.

They were less impressed. But if you want to make it in the world as a politician, do you want the common man on your side or the rich and powerful? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's around this time that John Scott dies. Benjamin Harrison travelled to his father's funeral and met up with his family. The day of the funeral arrived and the family stood around the grave together

as their father was lowered. It was Ben's brother who noticed something a bit odd about the grave nearby because the family had a friend who died literally days earlier. It was a sad time for the family. And this grave was right next to

where their father was being buried. Yeah. And it was noticed that the ground looked freshly dug. I mean, it was only a couple of days old, but this was, like, really freshly dug. Oh. That's a bit odd. And, in fact, there'd been rumours,

in fact, there'd been a bit of a problem with the old resurrection men recently. Yeah. Yeah. Just for our listeners, what's a resurrection man? It's grave robbing. That's what it is. It's the digging off of corpses and selling them to the medical profession.

Because as we have seen, the medical profession's going through a bit of a revolution at this time. Genuinely, thanks to this, though. As awful as it perhaps is. Oh, it's not good. Not good for the family. No, but they certainly made progress. A lot of advancement was made because they had some bodies to experiment on. The fresher the better.

Yeah, so anyway, the Harrisons decide they're taking no chances. So they stop the funeral. Some very heavy stones are found and some concrete. Wow. An image of a van sort of beeping its way in reverse. Beep, beep, beep. Attention, this vehicle is reversing. Really hard to get the horses to go backwards, but they managed to.

Yeah. So they literally put these massive stones and then pour cement over the casket. And then that's lowered down and they put the earth on and they have their funeral. Good and safe. However, the next day, Ben's brother, who's also called John, John and three policemen go to investigate the grave, what's actually happened here.

They dig it up and sure enough, the body had been taken. Sir, there's some muddy footprints bleeding from the graveside. Yeah. Follow them. Well, John and the policeman then do the very sensible thing, which is just head to the medical college. It's like, well, I mean, where's the body going to be? It's going to be at the medical college.

So off they go. However, the medical college have become used to these searches. Yeah. So a search was of the premises took place but they came up empty there was nothing there a lot of jars though yeah well i say empty and there were things there just not their friend there were apparently a six-month-old baby, they found. The torso and head of a woman. And a box of assorted body parts. Oh, that's not a good Christmas gift.

No, but nothing illegal and not their friend. So apparently they had the receipts for the torso or something. Yeah. Assorted body parts. Assorted body parts. Assorted body parts. That's... You see, my immediate thought is feet and hands, but there are lots of bits of the body that could be in there. A kneecap.

Intestines. Yeah, who knows? Oh, so the flashback at the beginning was then, let's hide the body. Ah, you're getting somewhere. Right. Then they head upstairs. They give up on their search.

They're just going gonna do some interviews with the medical students and professors there but when they go upstairs they notice this tight rope that disappears into a hole into the floor what's that they ask and it was explained oh we we winched the bodies upstairs to be looked at um just by pulling them up this shaft rather than carrying them up the stairs. It just makes sense. Oh, okay, they say. Is there anything in it now?

Yeah. The rope is pulled up, and sure enough, there's the body of a man hanging upside down, just on this rope. John dismissed it. This is clearly the body of an old man. This is not my friend. So, okay.

It's all bloated and red looking. He didn't look anything like that. I mean, it's a body, but I mean, there are supposed to be bodies here. It's grim, but it's meant to be grim here. So, okay. Well, it's not my friend. So let's move on. But at that point, one of the policemen lifted the cloth that hung over the man's face,

just out of curiosity. And apparently John went white, because he was now staring into the hanging face of his own father. Oh my... Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh. That was a great set-up, Rob, by the way.

That was brilliant. Yeah, yeah. We were not expecting that. No. So, at the beginning It was actually John Scott Who was being dragged off the wagon Oh

Yeah He's always giving his friend Oh Nicely done Nicely done Well Meanwhile At the graveyard

I mean the Harrison family Are off to pay their respects And Oh dear Apparently the stone and the concrete didn't work, so they rush to try and find John and say our father's been stolen, at which point John says, yeah, I know,

I found him. Literally, it's been 20 minutes. Yeah, the grave robbers apparently just watched the whole thing with the stone and the concrete and just went, well, they missed the fact that you can just, like, open a coffin from the end instead of from the top.

So they just pulled the end off and pulled the body out. Dig around it. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. Brave Robbers were actually at the funeral with their spades. Yeah. It's like a magic trick. The body was never in there. Clever. Yeah, anyway, as you can imagine, the Harrisons, not best

pleased. A furious Harrison family filed civil lawsuits against the medical school, but actually the records of the case were destroyed in a fire about a decade afterwards. So we don't actually have the details of the case. But as you can imagine, the Harrison family, a powerful family. They probably regretted stealing John Scott. Anyway, putting all this behind him, Harrison decides that it's time to run for governor. Third time's a charm.

Nah, he lost. Yeah, he failed once more. The Democrats were too popular at this time, so although he was the most popular Republican candidate, the Republicans want him to go for it. He can't beat the Democrat. However, because he is now very popular

in the Republicans, he was offered a job by none other than President Hayes himself. He was to work on the Mississippi River Commission, working on ways to improve the waterway. So that's nice. So he gets on with that, and then later on in the year, because he is a big name in the party now, he attends the

Republican National Convention. This is the one, if you remember, this is the angry one that Garfield spoke at and Conkling and Arthur fell out at. Yeah, so we've seen quite a bit of this convention before. It was one of the more dramatic ones. Harrison's there.

He threw his support behind Garfield as did many to keep out the stalwarts from New York. Also, this is the election where Arthur afterwards drunkenly boasted in public about buying votes at Dalmonico's, the whole soap thing. Yeah, well, these votes that were purchased were bought in the swing state of Indiana. Oh. Yes.

That's his... That's Harrison's home state. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to look into it because nowhere in the books i was reading did anyone even mention this it was just it just occurred to me it's like hang on that's indiana that's what arthur was boasting about i wonder if harrison knew about this or was involved i couldn't find anything to suggest that he was but uh there was a lot

of corruption going on at that time in the Republican Party in Indiana. So it would be shocking if he knew nothing about it. But how involved he was, who knows? Maybe he knew and really disapproved. We don't know. Maybe. Maybe. What we do know is the swing state was won and everyone was very happy. In return, word was sent to Harrison from the newly elected president.

Do you want a cabinet job? This is Garfield. He's newly elected president, do you want a cabinet job? This is Garfield. He's just become president. Do you want a cabinet job? I'm planning to stick around for a good eight years at least. Yes, please. That'd be splendid. Good work for me.

Harrison thought about it and decided, actually, could I be in the Senate instead? You've got to get voted in for that. Well, democracy. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. because you've got to get voted in for that well democracy yeah now although harrison was seen by many as the republican leader in indiana by this point he did have a rival in the state this is a man named gresham uh gresham was not happy with his rivals rise so he attempts to block harrison getting the seat uh but harrison's got too many friends. And again, because of democracy, Harrison gets the seat. So he's now in the Senate.

In fact, for the next six years, he serves in the Senate. He just gets on with his job. He works hard. Yeah, Garfield gets shot and dies horribly. Arthur becomes president. And while all that is going on, he's just sort of chipping away in the Senate. He chaired a couple of committees. He got involved in the tariff debates that were going on,

because everyone loved a good old tariff debate at this time. Don't worry, we're not talking about tariffs today, though. They might come into it a bit next time. Warning our listeners in advance. Oh, yes. He stuck to the party line, generally. He caused no waves, mostly. He did cause a bit of a ripple when he voted against,

that's right, against the Chinese Exclusion Act. That's good. Yeah, most senators in both parties agreed with excluding the Chinese at this time. But like President Arthur, Harrison thought that perhaps this bill was a bit too much. And he argued that it violated treaties with China. Maybe we shouldn't be doing this. Well, it's all about treaties rather than, you know, people trying to make a life here in the US that we did.

Yeah, interestingly you say that because that distinction comes up later. Does it? Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, quite soon, in fact. Anyway, when the next national convention comes along, Gresham and Harrison were in a bitter internal battle for control over the Indiana Republicans. There was

some talk of Harrison perhaps becoming what Garfield was last time, a dark horse compromise candidate. However, he didn't have the momentum behind him, especially with Gresham actively working against him within his own state. And after all, most decided it really was Blaine from Maine's turn. And sure enough, Blaine from Maine won the nomination, and Harrison started campaigning at a national level once more. And again, doing a good job, because he's a good campaigner. But as we've seen, Blaine lost, and the first Democrat since the war was elected. However, having made an impact in the swing state of Indiana once more,

some were already starting to think of the next election. And some were starting to mention Harrison's name. In the meantime, Harrison went back to his daily life. He was fully part of the political machine now, but he decided to step back from the Senate. Yes. And sure enough, it's not long before he starts making his moves to gain the next nomination.

Now, Blaine is still the most popular man in the party. But one day, he suddenly shocked many by stating that he was not going to run for the presidency again. Many nodded sagely. Wise thing, a wise thing. Of course, of course, the reluctant leader. Oh, yeah. Oh, we understand.

Yes. Yeah, no, no, really, said Blaine. Everyone around him nodded very wisely once more. They understood, wink, wink. Of course we understand. Of course, sir, yeah. Blaine just looked a bit annoyed. But still, it'sink, wink. Of course we understand. Of course, sir. Yeah. Blaine just looked a bit annoyed.

But still, it's fine. He's not going to run. Some saw it as an opportunity to advance. This is our chance. There was a man named Sherman. This is the brother of the General Sherman that Harrison served under during the war. Yeah.

So Sherman decided to go for it, but more importantly for Harrison, Gresham also decided to go for it as well. So the battle's on. Gresham started by spreading it around that Harrison voted against the anti-Chinese immigrant bill. The mad fool. Harrison's supporters responded by letting it be known, oh no no no, Harrison didn't vote against it because he likes the Chinese.

No, he's just unhappy with the details of the bill. Don't worry, he's a racist. Yes, he's like us. Don't worry, min him. Yeah. So whatever Benjamin's views at the time, it's very much spun at this point of, no, no, no, no, no.

He would have voted for it if it was a cleaner bill. Yeah. However, the favourite of the Republicans going into the convention is still very much Blaine, who was getting very frustrated by this point, by all the winks and the nudges every time he told someone not to vote for him. Of course, sir. Of course. We understand. No, seriously. The first round of voting was easily won by Sherman. He won 229 votes, But that's only half of the amount of votes needed.

There were 14 men in the running. Wow. Yeah, so a lot of the votes got spread. Gresham was in second and Harrison came in fifth with 80 votes. So, not great. Blaine only got 35. Well, that's good. Yeah. For him. But considering he's not running, I mean, that's not bad.

Spectacular. Yeah. Now, the reason why he only got 35 well that's good yeah for him but considering he's not running I mean that's not bad spectacular yeah actually now the reason why he only got 35 even though he was the favourite to win is because the Blaine men the Blaine supporters had a plan these are the half-breeds

they're still knocking around they would split their votes evenly across the board helping out the underdogs where they were needed. Yeah. Generally keeping a deadlock for as long as it took for everyone to go, fine, we'll have Blaine then. Yeah. Yeah. Because of this, Harrison saw a boost to his support. Coming in fifth meant that he was popular enough for the half-breeds to go, okay, let's give him

a push, but not too popular that he was going to go over the line. Yeah, so he sees a bit of a push. It soon got to the point where he was level with Sherman. They were both getting around 200 votes. And then the Blaine vote shifted because they didn't want him to become too popular. So his vote share starts to go down again. Now, it looked like that this would just keep going.

Many started to talk about how Blaine is definitely going to win now. I mean, it's obvious that it's soon going to be agreed in the back rooms. You know what? Next time, let's just all vote for Blaine. He's the man. But eventually, in a few days into the convention, Blaine finally managed to get through to someone. I'd like to think using, like, a megaphone or something.

Big blackboard, crude drawing of himself, the word president, and then just a not equals sign in the middle. Everyone's scratching their chins and their heads. What does he mean? I just don't... I can't crack this code. I get it. I get it. Big wink. And then they walk out the door.

No! No. No. Blaine eventually just shouts at people until they understand, even if you vote for me, even if I win the convention, I will refuse to do this job. I am not doing it. And I imagine everyone just laughed a bit. Oh, Blaine, eh? But if you last die away.

Yeah, they all froze in confusion as they saw Blaine's stony face. I just don't, I'm not getting it. He's a very good actor, isn't he? Eventually, though, the half-breeds get the message. And they realise they need to actually vote for someone else. And many saw this popular man who lived

in one of the two most important swing states. This man named Harrison. He's a good choice actually. Yeah, you know what, we could deal with him. So a couple of rounds later, Harrison gets the nomination. And so the campaign for the election begins. Now, as I've said before, in this day and age, it was common for people to write biographies of potential presidents so the electorate could get to know who they're voting for. Yeah. Well, who would you want to write your biography? Not necessarily a person, but what kind of person?

What profession? A lawyer? Not a lawyer, no. No. Oh, a priest. Not a priest, no. Oh, the Pope. Not the Pope, that would be interesting.

An author. Oh, that makes sense. It does make sense, doesn't it? Yeah, when you say it, yeah. Charles Dickens.. Charles Dickens. Not Charles Dickens. No. Oh!

That really American guy. This is what Harrison said. Get me that really American guy. The one that wrote Tom Sawyer? No. No. Then I don't know. You're getting close close. Stephen King. There is a very, very, very

famous book written roughly this time, maybe about a decade earlier. I don't know my American history very well. You know this story, trust me, because it was then made into a very famous film. Lord of the Rings. That lasts a very long time in the 1960s.

We have seen the film. We've seen the remake recently that was awful. It links to our other podcast. Oh, the chariot racing one. Ben-Hur. Ben-Hur. Yeah, the author of Ben-Hur. Really?

Yeah, that's who they were going to get. Oh, that book must have been epic. Everyone was loving a bit of Ben-Hur at the time. Yeah. So it's like, get me the guy who wrote Ben-Hur. Actually, he happened to be a friend. I've got a picture of him. His name is Lou Wallace.

No, it's William Wallace's brother. It literally just occurred to me. It's like, hang on, Wallace? Clearly a relative of William Wallace. Yeah, I've got a book for you. Yeah. Amy and whiskey. I didn't even think to do any research

I have no idea if he's related to William Wallace who we've been talking about earlier but he definitely was because I mean they're both

friends with Harrison they both come from the same place they're both Scottish what I do know about him is that he served under Zachary Taylor

oh nice he did yeah so I'm guessing he was embarrassed when he got confused when talking to a washerwoman one day. Yeah. So, yeah. Right there.

I hate this Zach Taylor guy. Of course, he'd be Scottish as well, wouldn't he? Hey. Yeah, yeah, of course he would. Yeah, so anyway. So he's got Lou Wallace to write his biography for him. Do you want to see a picture of Lou Wallace? Yes, please.

Because this is amazing. This is the guy who wrote Ben-Hur. Oh my, he looks so American. Look at that. That is... It's a weird beard. It's almost like... It's almost unnatural.

I put this on Twitter and someone commented that it looks like the beard has been caught trying to escape from his face. Yes. It's like he's trying to run off. Yeah. It's like he caught it mid-flow. Yes. From his cheeks.

That is weird. It's like a giant goatee. Yeah. If you're listening, just look up Lou Wallace, the author of Ben Hurt. It's an amazing photo. That is phenomenal. Anyway, so Benjamin Harrison's biography was written, which is why many people to this day believe that he did win a chariot race one day.

And had an epic life. He was a slave. Yeah. Or a hoodie. There was a bit on the sea. And his best friend. His best friend. Oh, the feud.

The feud. Oh, the feud. In fact, why didn't we just do Ben-Hur this episode? But they were confused whether they made friends at the end or he killed him at the end. No, he killed him. He definitely killed him. Well, it depends on which version you look at. No one's looking at the new version. It was awful.

Good. Anyway. So, yeah, the campaign starts. Nothing happens that is as interesting as the Ben-Hur author writing his biography. He mainly stayed at home, or at least nearby, less of his campaign for him. That's not to say he didn't do much. He was busy, but he didn't go out of Indiana. Meanwhile, life at home was getting very busy

because Harrison's daughter was all grown up by this point and had given birth to her second child. Really? Yeah. Oh, he's a granddaddy! Yeah, yeah, he's a granddaddy. Grandpops. In order to help about in the house,

because there's a lot of people living at the Harrisons, Carrie invited one of her nieces to come and stay with them. The niece was about the same age as Carrie and Ben's daughter, 30 years old. And she had no children, and she was a widow. Her husband had died only just a couple of months into their marriage. So this niece, her name was Mary, but nicknamed Mamie or Mame. I've only seen it written down.

I'm guessing Mamie. Mame sounds like an awful nickname. So I'm going to say Mamie. Anyway, soon Mamie was at the Harrison's house, happily helping out with the newborn child and just generally making things better in the household yeah yeah everyone was happy for the extra pair of hands particularly it turns out uncle ben really yeah who's known as uncle ben to mamey yeah in fact he soon discovered did uncle

ben that nothing soothed him after a long day of campaigning as much as having a good long walk with, oh I don't know, maybe the new young lady in the household. Ah, Mamie, do you have an interest in astronomy? Yeah, and then after a walk, I don't know, maybe a head massage or something. Yeah.

Not long after this, Mamie got an invite to travel around Europe with one of their other relatives. A great opportunity. Most people would jump at the chance. For some reason, Auntie Carrie was very eager for her to go. Oh, weird.

Yeah. Weird. But Uncle Benjamin was also equally determined that she should not go. She's such a great astronomy student. Her stargazing skills are amazing. It was during this undoubtedly

tense time at the Harrison household that the election happened. Harrison had lost. Much like his governorship runs. 100,000 fewer people had voted. Yeah. Yeah. Just much like his governorship runs. 100,000 fewer people had voted for him. Yeah.

It's a big chunk. However, thankfully for Harrison, the United States still hadn't got round to getting rid of their, by now, antiquated electoral college system. This was back in the days when they still had the electoral college system that just doesn't work. Yeah, I mean, what an archaic ridiculous... I don't know when they get rid of it. I assume they get rid of it. They must have got rid of it. that just doesn't work. Yeah, I mean, what? One archaic ridiculous system.

I don't know when they get rid of it. I assume they get rid of it. They must have got rid of it at some point. You'd have to, wouldn't you? We'd probably get to the point where they get rid of it. Yeah, I'm sure we will. Yeah. And how we'll laugh and go, oh, thank goodness.

It'll be about the same time as Britain reforms their system. Yes. Yeah, that happened. That definitely happened. Anyway, because of the electoral college system, Harrison had managed to win Indiana and New York, the two major swing states. So he wins.

233 votes to 168. So there you go. He's now president. 23rd president of the United States. So there we go. That's where we're going to leave it with Harrison today. Interesting. So when you suggest he was a boring character, I don't

well, he might be a boring person. I don't know, I think a lot happened in his life. He doesn't come across as the most interesting man, but when he's eating forbidden cucumbers he's got a psychotic Scotsman following him around, murdering Englishmen, and people are stealing his

dead dad. It suddenly becomes more interesting. Yeah, yeah. And don't forget his niece at the end as well. He does. His niece. I wonder where that goes. With an awkward pregnancy. We'll find out next time.

I can imagine. Yeah. Before we end, though, I just need to address something that a few people got in contact with us about. Is it another pronunciation thing? No, amazingly. We get a lot of those.

I think they just expect it by this point. They're British, what do they know? Cleveland. Oh, did we add it wrong again? No, we didn't add it wrong. That's right. But remember we deducted one of his points because he lost an election.

So one of his bonus points got deducted and we had a huge debate which I cut most of it because it took us ages to decide right yeah several people uh contacted us to point out that several other presidents have lost elections before um of course if you're a one-term president you probably lose an election so it's like if we're doing that we need to go back and change the scores of a few people and it's like that's a good point actually so cleveland gets his points back so he's gone from 21 to 22 yeah all right so he's still not great but yeah are these people not listened to us before from our roman podcast i'm trying to keep it like i noticed the inconsistency i'm trying to keep some vague consistency in this podcast.

Give the impression of consistency. Because we're only on like 23 and we're only doing 44 in total. In the Roman one, we're on 131. Who cares by that? So what was the argument? I can't... Well, obviously,

who's debating what? I genuinely can't remember. Because Cleveland wasn't president for two terms consecutively, because he had his break, which is Harrison's presidency. It goes Cleveland, Harrison, Cleveland. So we say, because Cleveland lost this election that we've just talked about, he needs a point deducted. But actually, it doesn't pan out if you look into it. We'd have to take points off other presidents.

So, you know what? That's fine. Cleveland can have his point. Yeah, okay. We can. Worlds in Cleveland, you know, have 22. Yeah. Right, okay.

So that is Benjamin Harrison. Nice. Or at least the first part of Benjamin Harrison. Next time we get to see what his presidency is like. Yeah. Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Twitter and downloads from Pubby and iTunes. Oh,

and the right listeners. Are you ready for this? Rob's just remembered. And so have I. So now Rob, right now I'll be singing it on my own. Yeah. Remember,

you're going to have at least thousands of listeners singing with me in their cars. So if they're listening to this now they need to join in saying it doesn't matter where they are if they don't sing along they're not even people that interest in history they're not even people so if you're on the bus right now you know what i'd be saying this is ridiculous but i really like the idea of people having to sing happy birthday in public yeah even know if they listen to it like july oh yeah three years time doesn't matter when no this is fine yeah right this is after three

one two three ha oh hang on we'll go with rob rather than robert's go rob we'll do that because that's how we know it okay after three one don't laugh i'm not it's laughter of joy. One, two, three. Happy birthday to you. Are we actually doing the whole thing? Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to Rob. I'm loving the eye contact. Happy birthday to you.

Woo! Clap. You have to clap as well Woo Woo Thank you Jamie and thank you listener because I know you sang along So this is to you personally. There are lots of you right now going I didn't and I'm not

talking to you but there is at least one of you who did. And you know who you are. So thank you. And you've earned yourself a total ranking point. Oh yes. Right, on that note, we can't top anything, so we're going to go now.

Until next time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye. And obviously then, I think, no, I know, I'm sorry, I know that it's paragraph four, subsection three, with the sales of all jellies being forbidden within four feet of the parked horse. Aye, well done to you. Have I done it? Have I passed the bar? Aye, you're now a lawyer.

That's it, I'm done. No, one more question to you. What, William, what? Aye, I'm William Wallace. Yes, I know. And I see a whole armory of my countrymen here in defense of tyranny. It's just me, William. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. Yes, I am free, wait is there a question

in this? What will you do without freedom? Oh, oh no I know this one this comes from the clause of statute written in... Will you fight? What? Will I fight? Fight, aye and you may die

I, I'm sorry I'm, what? Run and you'll live at least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now. Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance? Just one chance. To come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives. But they'll never take our freedom.

I'm sorry, was that a question? To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm a wee bit drunk, but I got one other question for you. Okay. Are you English? English? No, obviously not. I'm American. Can you not tell by my accent? Are you sound English? English? No, obviously not. I'm American. Can you not tell by my accent? Are you sound English?

Oh, I meant to say... No, I'm not. Aye. Aye. Let's lawyer. Yeah. And their friend had been buried right next to where their father was being put down. Where their father was being...

It's a kindness. He voted no, nothing, don't you?