American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 26.1 Theodore Roosevelt

Episode Date: May 9, 2020

Where do we start with Theodore Roosevelt? We decided on his birth, but it's a struggle fitting everything in after that. Join us as we look at arguably the most action packed life of any president!

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Theodore Roosevelt. Part 1. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalels of Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump. And this is episode 26.1. It's a biggie. It's THE Theodore Roosevelt. Ah, see, we're getting to the time period now where I'm starting to know the presidents. Yes, you recognise this name, do you? Well, I even know a bit about some of these presidents as well. Oh, yeah. So I know things, Rob.

We're in unprecedented waters. Yeah. I'm not used to this. No. You might be able to figure out all the bits I'm making up. He never even existed. Obviously, a big name in the history of presidents is Theodore Roosevelt, for reasons we will find out. But I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say he led an action-packed life.

Yes. So this is going to be, hopefully not too much longer than normal, but slightly longer episode than normal, so we should probably dive right into it. Yay! Let's do this. So, to start off with, are we calling him Theodore from the off, or are we starting with Teddy? Neither. Okay. But we'll get into that.

We'll get into it. But we need our opening. Oh, yes. Okay. I see you're clever. I'm going to throw you a bone here. Oh, yeah. Let's start with a butterfly. I can totally make that work. Right, okay. Because I know something, Rob.

That's why. Okay. Two towers. Lord of the Rings. You know the scene with the moth? Yes. Yeah, and it just follows the moth all the way through. It's going to be like that. So you start close up on a butterfly. A yellowish, whitish sort of speckled

butterfly. Nondescript, you could say. Yeah, almost as if it was put there by someone who knows nothing about butterflies and has no idea if this butterfly is native to this region of the world. But let's just say it is. And it's just fluttering against a blue sky. And the camera kind of swirls around it and you realize all you can see all around you is desert. It's one of the lesser speckled desert butterflies, I believe. Yeah.

Anyway, you follow, you follow, and there's just nothing around. It's just desert, and you're following this butterfly as it swoops and twirls in the eddies of the wind. And then, as it takes a sudden turn, the camera sweeps around to keep it in focus, and there is the Great Pyramid. Oh. In the distance.

And the butterfly gets closer and closer and closer to the Great Pyramid, until you start to see, just on top of the Great Pyramid, a little speck standing right on the peak. And you get closer. Apex? Yeah, you could call it that if you want. And you get

closer and closer to the apex. And then you realise that it's a teenage boy standing astride the pyramid, right on the top. And as the butterfly gets closer, he's sort of just looking down really still,

very much like Gandalf in Two Towers. And then suddenly, just as you're getting really, really close, you got so close that the little figures stopped being a CGI figure and started being the real actor. But the butterfly swept past, so you didn't see the transition. And then suddenly, the teenage boy just suddenly puts out his hand really quick,

grabs the butterfly in his hand, looks at it, and goes, Ha-ha! The less speckled desert butterfly. Perfect. And he grabs a pin and shoves it through. And then Theodore Roosevelt smashes onto the screen. No, flutters as lots of more butterflies come on. Oh, yes. There we go. Oh, no. That's the opening.

I like it. That's good, because I knew, I know he's a bit of a naturalist. Not naturist, naturalist. He is indeed, and you do know that. I'm impressed. But did you know he was a naturalist on top of the Great Pyramid? No.

Well, we'll get to it. Yes, we will. I can imagine some very angry Egyptians at the bottom going, get off! We'll get to it. But like I say, lots to get through. So let's jump on the Theodore train. Off we go. Woo-hoo!

We start in New York City on a cold October night in 1858. Theodore Roosevelt has just been born. His parents are Martha Bullock and Theodore Roosevelt Sr. The Roosevelts were a Dutch family originally who had come over in the 1600s and settled in New Amsterdam, obviously the old New York. And the family had done well enough to be considered in the upper classes of society. But it was actually Theodore Roosevelt's grandfather who was called Cornelius Roosevelt, which is a good name. Yeah, he was the one who made the family fortune.

The panic of 1838 had ruined the housing market and everyone was destitute. However, Cornelius was able to amass millions by buying and selling real estate just at the right time. So he came out of the panic very well. I was really hoping he said he was a really successful bank robber. No, but I mean, let's face it, I mean... Yeah.

Yeah. So this utter fortune, plus the general background of the family, really puts the Roosevelts firmly in the aristocracy class. We are up there, upper echelons of society. Anyway, Theodore Roosevelt Jr. was born. He's the second of four children that Martha would have and going back to the name as you mentioned it no one called him Theodore because obviously his father was Theodore no one called him Teddy he was called and known by TD

TD yes Martha described little TD as being quite hideous looking when she first looked at her son. Apparently, he looked like a terrapin. Shell and claws? Yeah, I mean, he shed them early on, fortunately. It's nice to have some honesty, because you always get a newborn baby, right? And it's like, oh, he's so lovely.

And I know he's not. He's covered in all sorts. He's grotesque looking. Ugh, and he's cleaning up first. Yeah, Martha was an honest woman, clearly. Plus, I was just... What a wretch! Childbirth, not a pleasant experience.

And some home truths are probably going to come out afterwards. So there you go. It was soon discovered, however, that little T.D. was a very sickly child. A very sickly child. Asthma. Oh, yes. See, you do know stuff. He was severely asthmatic.

It really was a problem. He struggled to breathe. The family feared he would not last long. One day, when he was tiny, the attack was so severe that Theodore Sr. decided the best way to get air into his child's lungs would be to force

the air in. Oh no. What are you imagining? Well, houses at the time didn't have electric fires, as we sometimes do now. They had proper wood fires or coal fires. Are you thinking the bellows? I'm thinking the bellows i'm thinking the bellows just seeing the baby inflates like a balloon whistling sound as the air comes out of their own

theodore senior looking really proud of himself picking up the bellows. Don't worry, I have an idea. No, although in some ways it's no less ridiculous. This is actually, you'll probably be unsurprised to learn, this is TD's first memory, this is. His father took him outside, put him on a wagon, and then drove around the streets as fast as he possibly could, breakneck speed, just to try and get some air into the boy's lungs. That is amazing. You should have put a cone on the baby's mouth as well,

just like an intake valve, intake for a jet. I don't know whether this was successful, but it didn't kill the child, so it clearly made him stronger. Yeah. The asthma, however, so it clearly made him stronger. Yeah. The asthma, however, was not the only thing troubling this little boy. He also suffered from a sudden bounce of unexpected diarrhea. Yeah. Too much air is what it is.

I mean, that's typical for a baby, obviously. But as little TD grew older, older, especially when he was nervous, he'd just drop some. I was going to say drop one, but diarrhea makes it sound more of a... Splash. Yeah, something you'd measure in amount rather than by counting.

Liters. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, early memories of TD are filled with his parents attempting to keep him well, of him being paced up and down rooms, of various remedies being tried, and just him struggling to breathe and generally feeling very unwell. So that was his childhood and his memories, apart from his memory of war. Because he was only three years old when the civil war broke

out yeah uh considering the last president was fighting in the war it shows yeah we've got a sudden age uh gap uh we've jumped forward quite a bit because remember mckinley was shot when theodore was vice president he wasn't expected to be president. He was an accidental president. And he was much younger when he becomes president than normal. So yeah, we've suddenly jumped forward in time a bit. Wasn't he, at this point, the youngest? I'm jumping ahead slightly,

but he was the youngest president, wasn't he? Yes, when he becomes president. At the moment, he's three years old. So if he became president right now, he definitely would have been her but that's for next episode the Roosevelt's from New York were firmly Lincoln supporters

unsurprisingly but Martha, T.D.'s mother came from a southern family so again as we've seen before we have this family split Martha made it very clear how she would react to her husband picking up a weapon to go and fight her brothers.

So the elder Theodore did not sign up. Instead, just like Cleveland, he paid for someone else to go for him. He then spent the war working politically to aid the Union forces, or rather their families. You're talking about Theodore's dad, right? Not the three-year-old? Yeah, let's make that clear. He wasn't that much of an early starter.

Yeah, this is Daddy Theodore, who I'll just call Daddy Theodore from now on to make it really clear. Yeah, he was focusing on the fact that many of the families of the soldiers who had signed up were destitute because no one had worked out how the soldiers' pay could get back to the families. So he was going to sort this out.

It meant long trips to Washington where he would lobby politicians and generally use his name as Theodore Roosevelt and the class that went with it to get results. So although he wasn't really a politician at this time, he was very much in the thick of Washington politics. He was dabbling. Yeah. So Daddy Theodore was away, and Martha would look after the children. She would take them to Central Park,

where she would covertly pass on aid packages to mysterious strangers who were heading south because Martha was secretly sending aid packages to the Confederacy. Yeah, because all her family were fighting for the south. So TD was oblivious to this, but his elder sister remembers the event and they overheard people trying to run the blockades and little TD T.D. and his sister would play games where they had to run the blockade, not fully understanding what was going on. So Martha's a disgusting traitor.

She'd treat us the union, and she'd be shot, is what you're saying. Yeah, and she was the next day. Wow. No, she wasn't. Right. To pass time, as he was growing up, little T.D. started flicking through the many books

that were in the house that he lived in. Obviously, rich family, personal library. He couldn't read yet, but he soon became obsessed with the animal pictures. There were some really good pictures in these books of some quite interesting-looking animals. So he spent his time leafing through those. He was also homeschooled by his aunt, his classmates being his two younger siblings, and a neighbour and friend of the family, a girl roughly his age called Edith.

Keep an eye on Edith, she comes back into the story. But just know they get to know each other here. No, not in that way. They they get to know each other here. No, not in that way. They just, they meet each other here. Little TD apparently took well enough to the home studies. In particular, he really enjoyed history and loved hearing stories from the past. Then the war ended,

the quickest we've ever covered the Civil War on this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Life improved for the children. Their father was back more often and would spend time with them, often taking them on tours of the various charities he was involved in. Daddy Theodore very

much believed that as an upstanding prominent citizen in New York, it was his duty as a citizen to do his best for everyone else less fortunate than him. So he got involved in the running of various charities.

And to try and distill this into his children, he'd take them with him to these charities once a week. So every week, TD would get a first hand look on how those less fortunate than him lived by looking around orphanages or asylums and things.

Oh, that's really good. I think it's the first time we've met... Well, we've mentioned, like, orphanages, but not many charities we've talked about. No, I mean, obviously, there's the asylum that Cleveland worked in for a year. We're talking around the same sort of period here, so... But when you hear the word asylum, it doesn't bring many positive connotations, does it?

It doesn't, but yeah, be thinking like that, though. By charities, what I mean is the running of orphanages and asylums. Yeah, OK. Yeah. All right. Yeah, don't think children are in need. Pudsey the bear. Still, more exciting than being dragged around to go and look at poor people

was the trip to Europe that TD and his family went on when he was 11 years old. They arrived in Liverpool to begin with and spent a summer exploring British castles and then going to London, looking at the Tower of London. Did they go to the Cavern Club? Yes, obviously. If you're in Liverpool, you've got to go there. Of course, lots of memorabilia.

Yeah. They stayed in Paris for a bit, then Switzerland and Germany. Just generally did a tour. I'll be honest. If I was going around at 11 years old, especially in the Victorian times, I wouldn't have found it that interesting. He really liked the old castles and buildings.

Yeah. But he didn't really enjoy the trip. This is mainly because he spent most of the trip very unwell. Oh. Yeah, his asthma flared up terribly and for most of the trip he was unable

to do pretty much anything at one point it got so bad he was unable to lie down and had to try and sleep sitting up yeah so I've got to imagine him walking around the Arc de Triomphe and just leaving little puddles behind him as well

oh yeah of course the diarrhoea I yeah, of course, the diarrhoea. I didn't read anything about the diarrhoea at this point, but let's add that in for flavour. Blech. Sorry, bad choice of words there. However, when they arrived in Italy, things cleared up a bit. It was over winter they were going, and the warmer weather in southern Europe suited his asthma much better.

They went to see the Colosseum, looked around Rome, and the warmer weather in southern Europe suited his asthma much better. They went to see the Colosseum, looked around Rome, and then headed down towards the Bay of Naples and saw Mount Vesuvius. And, yeah, things improved a bit. They must have been high-fiving the hell out of each other during that trip. Oh, they definitely were. Romans! Woo! TD wrote that he managed to set fire to one of his socks by putting it in a hole in Mount Vesuvius,

which is probably made up. I see Mount Vesuvius made up. Let's say that definitely happened. Now, by the time that the family returned home, T.D. had shot up quite a bit, as young children do. He was thin as a stalk, sort of gangly. About six foot seven. Not quite that tall, but still.

Doctors were called to inspect him. His parents were very worried after this trip. He had not done well on this trip. Why was the child not improving? Well, it was decided he was just too weak physically. He just needed to get stronger. Right. All you need to do is bulk up a bit.

Look, you're a stick man. But back then, would they have known about nutrition and proteins and things? It was just like, eat more food. I don't know for certain. I'm guessing the basics would have been discovered based on what else we've talked about.

I don't know. This is only just post-Civil War. Because I think the first person to ever weight of weight gain scientifically was in the 1920s or something. I can't remember if he was from Britain or New York, but he was the first one to eat protein and work out the science behind it. Yeah, you see, we're still in the 1870s at this point. Yeah, so just eat food.

Eat some lard. No, no, not eat some lard. Let's build a private gymnasium so you can spend all your time in it. Ooh. Yeah. Just eat food. Eat some lard. No, no, not eat some lard. Let's build a private gymnasium so you can spend all your time in it. Ooh. Yeah. That sounds fun. Well, to begin with, they actually went to a local gym. His mother took him and would sit at the sides

while all these muscly guys were working out, and little TD would try and lift up a weight. Can you imagine that conversation between Martha and Theodore? It's like, I'm going to go with TD to the gym today. It's my turn again. Well, you took him yesterday, haven't you, the day before? I'm very, very serious about his weight gaining. And then shortly afterwards, for some reason,

Daddy Theodore built a private gym for the boy to use. I mean, who knows why? I don't know. Yeah. Now, this is the first time where we start seeing the personality of Theodore Roosevelt. Because the teenage Theodore spent hours

upon hours a week repetitively working out. He just became obsessed with this. He was going to build his body up so he would stop being ill. It took a few years, so full-on 80s montage here, but he did manage to improve his health.

I mean, he wasn't, like, the most muscular guy in the world, but his health was improving enough that he was able to start joining in activities with his friends, such as swimming and horse riding and climbing trees and stuff. Yeah, I guess because you improve your cardiovascular, that improves breathing. Yeah, exactly. So it naturally makes sense. Around this time, his fascination with animals also started to develop further. He spent a lot of time with a taxidermist in the city, just learning how to stuff and

skin animals. Nice. So during his teenage years, apparently he became so obsessed with it that he would almost always have a dead animal on his person, ready to be skinned or stuffed. It kind of puts your Rubik's Cube to shame, doesn't it? It really does, yeah. Now, it was whilst learning how to become a taxidermist

that it became clear that his eyesight was actually awful. Like, really bad. I've heard of this story. Oh, yeah? What have you heard? Something about he was doing something and then he just couldn't do it. I can't remember what it was.

It was something. And then he had his eyes tested and he was like, oh, my eyes are bad. And they've always been bad, but he hadn't realised. Yeah, yeah. He was extremely nearsighted. Some spectacles were made for him. Really thick-rimmed kind of.

NHS style ones. Yeah, bottleneck spectacles. And upon putting them on, he was amazed. In fact, I'll quote him here. I had no idea how beautiful the world was until I got those spectacles. Aww. Which reminds me of the first time I put my glasses on, because I really didn't want glasses,

and I was not happy about having to have them. I put them on in the shop and looked out the window and went, oh, you're supposed to be able to read the things across the road. I genuinely didn't know. When did you get glasses? About the same age as Theodore Roosevelt did. I wasn't paying attention. How old was that?

He's in his teens. I was about 15. Mine just got worse. I was about in year end of year 9. It started to get further away. I had to squint. Then year 10 I was wanting glasses. Oh, thank goodness. I was relieved. Yeah, yeah., thank goodness. I was relieved. Yeah, yeah.

That's good. I love glasses. Good old glasses. All those people in our Roman series that must have needed glasses but could never have them. I remember hearing something about, it's one of my mum always tell me, I don't know if it's true, but there's a Roman emperor who used to use gems or something or bits of quartz to look through. Did we talk about that? We've never covered that oh this is interesting ask your mom where she's got that from did she hear it on a podcast

right anyway back to theodore um so he can see now he can see well enough to kill and skin and stuff animals to his heart's content he starts keeping all his little bits of dead animals on a shelf in one of his rooms. He's starting to build up his own collection. This reminds me of something of the Dalai Lama. I think somebody, it might not be true, but somebody asked the Dalai Lama, what's the difference between liking something and loving something?

And he said, well, the difference is, if you like something, if you like a flower you'll pluck it and keep it if you love it you'll nurture and let it grow yeah in which case he really really really liked animals yes he did um then when he was 14 uh the family went on another trip to the old world uh this time egypt the middle east uh constantinople as they just insisted on calling it and parts of europe they've not been before the main event however was a two month cruise up the nile oh wow uh costing four times the annual income of the average american family just to give you a sense of how rich the Roosevelt's were.

Wow, so they must have done that very privately then. I can't imagine there were many tour excursions back then. Yeah, the Roosevelt's were so rich that they could go through Egypt, the Middle East, into Europe on their own with no problems, because Roosevelt was a Roosevelt, and things would be done. Yeah, it's the aristocracy class, definitely. They could have bought the drink package and everything. Yeah.

Well, they arrived again in Liverpool because that was the best place to head to. Theodore was outraged when he arrived. The urchins apparently mocked him for his dress sense and his accent. And then when he went to a local shopkeeper, the man wouldn't sell him any arsenic, which Theodore was outraged by. They sold us rat poison, didn't they?

In Victorian England. You use arsenic in taxidermy, apparently. And that's what Theodore wanted it for. And back home, no problem. Has it got preservative quality to it? Sorry, I'm just asking you chemical questions now. Sorry.

Yeah. Back home, he could buy arsenic till his little heart was content. No problem. In fact, one of the toothbrushes that he used to apply the arsenic was accidentally left in his stand one day, but fortunately he noticed it before brushing his teeth. God.

However, in Liverpool the shopkeeper took a look at this young American who suddenly wanted one of the world's most deadly poisons and just went no, bring your parent in and then maybe I'll sell it to you. Yeah, this put a downer on the trip through England and Theodore did not like it one bit. Yeah, this put a downer on the trip through England

and Theodore did not like it one bit. So he sulked. He sulked, yes. But once they were across Europe and into Egypt, Theodore cheered up immensely. Once they were there, they went to the Great Pyramid. Ah. Yes, he explored all the tunnels inside the pyramid,

just crawling here, there and everywhere. There were lots of bats, apparently. I imagine, again, lots of angry Egyptians. Get out of there! Probably not, because Daddy Roosevelt was nearby with a lot of money. Ah. Yeah, this is before people tried to preserve anything. So much so that after climbing through all the tunnels,

little Theodore thought it would be a brilliant idea to just climb the pyramid. So he did. But those blocks are massive. Yeah, well, up he went. Wow. So that's the start. I doubt he caught a butterfly when he was up there,

but artistic license. From what I'm hearing, though, you need to edit that slightly. Rather than a butterfly coming, he had the pin. Oh, nice. Mid-air. And then landed in the palm of his hand. Yes. a butterfly coming, he had the pin. Oh, nice. Mid-air. And then landed in the palm of his hand. Yes.

Or he landed by his parents, where his butterfly book already was. Yeah, landed open. Nice. Pinned into the book. Yeah. Anyway, this was a brilliant time for Theodore because they boarded the boat that would be their home for two months

and just went up the Nile. The climate suited his asthma. He felt absolutely fine. He spent his days learning languages and history and his evenings hunting stuffing animals. He managed to kill and stuff over 200 birds during this time. Wow. He really liked those birds.

He really did. Yeah. Just imagine some very sad Egyptians, like, waking in the morning, where's the dawn chorus gone? Yeah. He was a lot noisier than this, didn't he? His sisters were amazed at this point that he was able to not only keep up with them now, he seemed to be more energetic than they were he really just seemed to be getting

better but the rest of the trip was a letdown. Jerusalem just seemed to drab and run down to the teenager I mean he'd heard all these stories of the holy land through his history lessons he was expecting something more grand and And then they arrive in Istanbul. And I'd love to tell you that he really enjoyed the city we've spent so long talking about in our other series. And he went to visit the palace in the Hajj of Sevir. And I'm sure he did do all those things, but he just didn't like it. Did nothing for him. Philistine.

No. But this is possibly because as he moved further north his asthma got worse again uh yeah so he he just started to suffer and he wasn't able to enjoy himself anymore uh then followed five months in germany without his parents his parents left the children with a german family to learn german whilst they went off and had their own little bit of a holiday without the kids More innocent times, weren't they? Yeah, I mean, it was like... Random family.

It was all arranged and the family was there to teach them, but I'd love to think it was a case of, that house will do. Excuse me! I've got money and children. I'll give you both for two weeks. Yeah, Theodore was most upset when his arsenic was confiscated shortly after being delivered to this family. He's not on good luck with arsenic, is he?

He's not. It's almost as if carrying around a deadly poison is dangerous. But he did manage to learn the basics of the language and further his education. Eventually, the family headed home. The reason why they delayed so much is because a new family house was being built. And it was completed by the the family headed home. The reason why they delayed so much is because a new family house was being built, and it was completed by the time they moved home, and it was

a mansion of a building. Huge building. Theodore soon reserved the attic to keep all his stuffed specimens in. How will you get the camel up the stairs? When he turned 16, it was decided it was time for him to go to Harvard. Now, having no formal education at all up until this point, just being taught at home, Theodore's knowledge was obviously very patchy. However, Theodore had a secret weapon. His family were rich.

I was going to say, is it the arsenic? That could have been a secret weapon, but no. A tutor was hired to just teach him how to pass the entrance exam, which, if you're rich enough, that's easy enough to do. We essentially do the same thing with sats, though, don't we? Oh, yeah. Here's how you pass the sats. Yeah, believe me, things have not changed at all.

Theodore passed the exam with little problem at all. Now, during this time, he had spent his time collecting animals and working out. He was a well-muscled Theodore when he entered Harvard. His health was improving even more. So the whole sickly child thing starts to be left behind. However, he didn't fit in Harvard immediately. I mean, Theodore, as we've seen, However, he didn't fit in Harvard immediately. I mean, Theodore, as we've seen, he's very much amongst the aristocratic class that dominated the school.

But he'd not really spent enough time with those in this class to develop the accepted mannerisms. So he's a bit socially stunted. Yeah. His accent, although very upper class, was not quite as affected with the Harvard drawl. Ah, damn,, hi guys!

It wasn't quite like that. Apparently it was almost a yawn. It was that drawly. Which is fascinating because we've seen this in Roman times. We've seen this in Roman times with the youth of the aristocracy affecting

accents. Rex Factor covered it in the Georgian times. It seems to be something that is constant throughout history, that the rich kids develop a drawly accent, which is really weird. Yeah, more important than him not quite having the right accent was that he was very enthusiastic, and that just did not do at all. Harvard was very pompous, very insular, looked down on pretty much everything else in the world. A true American gentleman did not get excited by things. He certainly didn't keep dead wouts in his pocket

and get really excited by them, which is what Theodore was doing. That is brilliant. Yeah. However, Theodore had two things that meant he would definitely fit in. Arsenic. Again, it's not the arsenic. Intelligence.

No, no, you don't need intelligence to fit in. Money. Money. Money's one and the name Roosevelt was the other. He had the money, he had the name. He was going to fit in, but he struggled for a while, because he just wasn't quite like the other upper-class gentlemen. So, typical day for Theodore in Harvard.

He woke at seven, headed to the chapel for compulsory daily pray. Then lessons took place in the morning and one hour in the afternoon. And the rest of the time was for studying or sports. So since the last time we've really looked at one of these colleges, the time spent in lessons seems to have gone downhill quite a bit. A lot of independent research. Theodore, using this time, A lot of independent research. Theodore, using this time, decides that he's going to really get into boxing. In fact, this is something he'd already started. A few years earlier, he'd been picked on by a couple of other boys when he was off camping.

So when he got home, he asked his father to be taught how to box. So a tutor was hired, and in the private gym, he was taught how to box. Training had been added to his workout workout and he continued this in Harvard. And in fact, what I'm going to do is just so you know roughly what he looks like at this time. I know it's not canvasability yet, but just so you've got an idea of the kind of guy we're looking at. There you go, I've just sent you an image of Theodore Roosevelt when he was at university university roughly. Bloody hell. Is that what you're imagining? No, it looks like Jack the Ripper. He looks terrifying. Bloody hell.

As you can see, the workouts have worked. He's not someone you want to annoy. No, he is a well-muscled, he's not quite got the barrel chest that he develops later. He's still fairly trim, but wow, is he muscly. I mean, he's got his muscular arms folded,

so you can't see his six-pack, but he undoubtedly has ones with those pecs. And it's the big, the furrowed brow and the massive sideburns. Yeah, he's frowning in a way that only Caracalla manages to pull off. He's got a sort of cap or bandana or something on his head, and, ooh, he's got some sideburns on him. Wow. Yeah, so there you go.

That sickly child has gone. Muscular teenager. Muscular badass. Yeah, is now there. This is what several years of becoming obsessed with working out does. So, yeah, he starts um boxing i mean you get the impression from that photo of a really sort of cool moody you want to hang out with him but do you approach him kind of guy yeah it gives the impression sort of wear a leather jacket yeah exactly no t-shirt you've got to get that impression out your head.

That's just what that one photo does. What you need to do is imagine that guy in that photo practically skipping around Harvard with dead animals falling out of his pocket, getting really excited about doing things, going on walks or attending a new lesson. He was enthusiastic about everything and just wanted to do things.

Also, he usually wore his really thick glasses, which obviously he didn't in that photo. Not in fights, no. No. So, yeah, that is a very flattering photo that I don't think reflects his personality. He was not a moody youth. He was an enthusiastic, happy youth. But there you go.

Now you know what he looks like. So he continues in Harvard. He's doing quite well, but then some tragic news reaches him. His father had had a hard time recently. There's no time to go into it, but do you remember in Arthur's episode, there was a lot of political arguing over who controlled the customs house in New york and because basically you made loads of money from corrupt dealings uh you might remember that hayes who was president at this time tried to attempt to get theodore roosevelt senior into the custom house job i did mention this just because i knew it would come up again, but it was a one-off mention. Well, that happens at this time.

Conkling, hey, it's Conkling, he managed to block it, and Theodore Roosevelt Sr.'s health then deteriorates. The family blame it on the Stalwarts and Conkling for ruining Theodore Roosevelt Sr.'s political career and the stress that it caused him. In reality, it was actually stomach cancer. The stress had little to do with it. It took months of agonising pain, but eventually Theodore at Harvard received a telegram.

Come home as quick as you can. Your father is dying. But he was too late. His father had died in the night before he could get back home. Theodore was devastated by this. He really, really admired his father. But he was not one to show his emotions outwardly too much,

and he returned to Harvard shortly afterwards. Apart from enthusiasm. Well, apparently he was a mess, but he didn't show that by being a mess with other people. He kept to himself in his room, which is just full of stuffed animals by this point because he keeps going off and killing more animals to stuff and put in his room.

He did well enough in his studies because he threw himself into his work, but he generally didn't manage to make many friends. He just kept to himself. And then that summer he went home uh but then things started to get a bit better because his childhood friend edith came to visit do you remember edith yes she's grown up a bit she has um as is he obviously he now had the aristocratic hairstyle at the time which is those sideburns. Yeah. That really placed him in his class. He had more of a drawl in his accent.

He now was wearing the right clothes. He cut a pretty fine figure to Edith. Oh, can you imagine, right? He sees Edith the first time. He walks up to her with his drawl and his fancy clothes and just says, do you want to see my eel?

Can you stuff an eel? He did. He did, yeah. Do you want to see my stuffed eel? If you can imagine, Edith, childhood friend to this sickly child, and then he goes away and comes back looking like he does and just being a bit more fancy. And, yeah, Edith impressed Theodore as well.

Now there's no actual proof, but it would appear that the two got to know each other at some level. Now exactly how much they got to know each other, we have no idea. What kind of base are you talking about? Base one, base two? I'm not American, so I've got no idea. Third base? I've heard that said a lot, so let's say third base. kind of base if you're talking about base one base two i'm not american so i've got no idea um third base i've heard that said a lot so let's say third base let's let's just say bases were involved yeah we'll leave it at that uh one diary entry at the time mentions them going to a summer house

for the day just the two of them uh but then something happened because Edith is suddenly dropped out of his life entirely and Theodore was furious for the next few days so something happened in the summer house and the two fell out maybe he tried to show her his stuffed... Stuffed antelope? Yeah, who knows? Maybe he pushed for too much. Maybe they were already doing too much, and Edith said, no, we need to pull back. Who knows? We can only speculate. But something happened, and Theodore was very, very angry for the next few days, so much so that when the neighbor's dog started yapping at him, he pulled out a gun and shot it. Bloody hell. Yeah. Mild overreaction. Yeah, I mean, don't forget, Theodore, killing animals left, right, and center, so just killing the dog probably didn't seem like that much to him,

but as a dog owner yourself, I can't imagine you'd be too pleased if your neighbour shot your dog. Oh. No. Basil. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, things improved then for Theodore when he went back to Harvard because he met someone who put Edith completely out of his mind. And this was a young lady called Alice Hathaway Lee. She was a particularly beautiful young lady and the daughter of the prominent banker in the area. So she had the looks and she had the money. However, Theodore may have impressed his childhood friend Edith with his new looks, but in Harvard itself, Theodore had stiff competition, and his large glasses and his dead animals in his pockets did not help him. Yeah, Alice just wasn't interested to begin with.

But again, really starting to see Theodore's personality here. He set out on a campaign to win Alice's heart with the same obsession that he reserved for his workouts and his animal stuffing. but with the same obsession that he reserved for his workouts and his animal stuffing. Yeah, he just became full-on obsessed. After a relentless push for an entire year, he managed to befriend the young lady. Look at the shrine I've made for you! It's got your hair in there as well! Well, it would appear Alice liked him well enough as a friend by the end of this

year. What helped is the fact that her nine-year-old brother thought that Theodore was the coolest person in the world. He's got dead animals and everything. However, it wasn't enough. Very aware that an upcoming holiday would mean that

he would not be around Alice anymore, but the entire youth of Boston would, he decided to go all out and proposed. It didn't go well. No. In what way did he think it would go well? Well, Alice didn't say no, but she didn't say yes. She just kind of...

Screamed and ran. No, they were on friendly terms. Okay. She clearly wasn't interested in that way at this time. Yeah, Theodore went home dejected. He immediately did the only sensible thing and bought a two-wheeled carriage, determined that come the start of the next academic year,

he would have mastered how to drive it and be able to impress Alice with his sweet new ride. How long do you think it took him to work out that you also needed a horse? Don't worry, he had the horses. Okay, that's okay. His dad apparently was... No, I don't mean a stuffed one. Oh, right, that's okay.

The stuffed ones had wheels on. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, perpetual motion. All you need is a hill. It was fine. Yeah, his dad apparently was very good in these small carriages and was able to skid round corners

and all sorts, do wheelies, who knows do that thing with the suspension where it bounces up and down and have lights underneath yeah Theodore was going to emulate his own father and just have a really cool ride.

I do love how modern this is starting to sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, unfortunately, he never really managed to get to grips with it. He did manage to take Alice on a couple of rides, but she wasn't that interested. It's all that dodgy suspension. Yeah. Anyway, going back to Harvard for the following year, he arranged to take fewer classes. He's in his final year by this point, but he pulls back on the academic learning so he could spend

more time doing his heart's goal, which was obviously pursuing Alice. He had no time for studying. He had Alice to get. It had become such an obsession that his classmates started to mock him for it, but this didn't deter Theodore. He was soon enlisting his mother and his sisters to help him, getting them to invite the Lee women to go and visit them, so he had an excuse to see them in a place that wasn't Harvard. Sounds a bored one, a bit creepy now. Well, don't forget he has developed a genuine friendship with Alice by this point. Yeah.

But you get the impression he's very much in the friend zone. Yeah, but when you start collecting the toenail clippings and keeping them in jars, that's never a good sign. It's really easy to hide those jars of toenail clippings in with all the other taxidermy, though, so... Do you think he started to mutate his taxidermy though. Do you think he started to mutate his taxidermy? Like get different animals to make a life-size

model of Alice? I've never read anywhere that he did that, but he definitely did. I like to think he did. He definitely did. Yeah. Anyway, Alice wasn't interested. He was still, like I say, friend zone stuff. She was clearly enjoying like I say, friend-zoned stuff.

She was clearly enjoying the attention of the many young men who were obviously chasing her. She was well sought after, shall we say. Theodore wasn't the only person obsessed with Alice. Yes, Alan brings me flowers. We've got Daniel who brings me the finest chocolates in the world and Theodore who brings me a stuffed ferret yeah but the ferret's got his like little paws out and his little ferret hands are making a heart shape with his fingers and well it's claws so it's cute it's very cute i mean it would it would be if it was a stuffed toy but uh it's an actual ferret with its cold dead glass

eyes constantly staring, judging yeah anyway Theodore really loses it at this point he becomes convinced that another competitor from Boston will take

Alice away from him so he orders duelling pistols from France just in case he needs to fight for her honour. Bloody hell. Which, I mean, we're post-Civil War here. Dueling is ridiculously antiquated. But yeah, he's going to order them anyway. So yeah, like I say,

he definitely seems to lose it a bit at this time. He spends all night walking in the woods when he should have been doing his studies. He stops talking to his classmates once more. Things get so bad that one of his friends at the university alerted his family, who sent a cousin to go and check that he's okay. He returned home for Christmas, having given up, essentially. And he starts talking to Edith again.

Edith's there. Good, reliable Edith. Whatever their argument that they had was clearly behind them by this point. And the two start getting on again. He starts to return to his own old self. And then Alice and her family suddenly come to stay. It would appear that she had decided that Theodore indeed was the one for her. Oh, that's awkward.

Oh, it's okay. I mean, Theodore jumps at this. There's no torn heart here. I like to imagine Alice walked in whilst Theodore was talking to Edith. Theodore stood up so quickly, he just knocks Edith onto the floor and just strides towards Alice. Stepping on Edith's hand towards doing so. Yeah. stood up so quickly he just knocks edith onto the floor and just strides towards alice stepping on edith's hand towards doing so yeah um yeah uh theodore and alice get closer um than ever before

and he proposes for the second time and this time she accepts oh yeah and elated theodore heads back to harvard skipping all the way uh suddenly he had a lot more spare time, since at the moment it's like 30% studies, 70% pursuing Alice. Yeah, he realises, well, I've got all this spare time now that I'm not obsessed. So he develops a new obsession, and this time it's the War of 1812, in particular the naval battles that took place during the War of 1812, in particular the naval battles that took place during the War of 1812. Along with his studies, he starts to look into everything he can based around the war. He was very unhappy that everything he read was very biased towards the Americans or the British, depending on who was writing it, and he wanted just a history that

was unbiased. He couldn't find one, so he decides he'd write one himself. So along with studying, he starts writing a history book. And soon enough, he finishes Harvard. He did well enough. He had started his studies wanting to be a natural scientist, understandably, what with all the dead animals. But over the course of his studies and pursuing Alice,

he decided that law and politics would enable him to keep Alice and any children they have living the life they were accustomed to. So he kind of puts the dead animals away slightly and decides to take a more conventional route. One makes sense. Theodore and Alice were wed on his 22nd birthday in 1880. Aww. Yeah. And then Theodore starts law school because that's what you do. were wed on his 22nd birthday in 1880. Aww. Yeah. And then Theodore starts law school, because that's what you do.

Yeah. He spent his days studying law and continuing his book on the War of 1812. His evenings would be spent socialising at Dalmonico's with his new wife. Again, we're in New York, so we're in with that scene that we've seen before with Arthur and Jay Gould and all of them. But despite this charmed life he now had, it wasn't quite enough for Theodore. Something was missing. He decided he wanted to get into politics,

and to do that you go through the law, but it just wasn't him. He didn't enjoy it. In fact, he started to despise studying law. He couldn't help but think that it was just all set up to make sure that rich men got rich. Wow. And he wanted to see some actual moral code in there, and it seemed to be empty of morals. Of course it is. Yeah. So he just wasn't very happy. Instead, he was going to get into politics, and he was going to do it now. Now, we've seen time and again that if you're part of the elite

class, what you do is you pass the bar, you become a big name in the party through socialising, for example, at Dalmonico's, and then you get voted into Congress because democracy. Monaco's and then you get voted into Congress because democracy and that's the route you take when you're part of the elite but Theodore didn't want to do that he wanted to go and see what the grassroots of

politics was like, actual local politics, which is a very different beast to national politics so he wanted to go and see what was being done by the common man, the shopkeepers, the saloon owners in all the various districts, or as his friends put it, low politics. He soon asked around, it's like, okay, well, where do I go? How can I join the

Republican Party and start at the bottom? And he was told by his friends that if he did this, the men he would meet would be rough, brutal, and unpleasant. You don't want to go that way. Just stick with the law. Still, Theodore headed off. He found the headquarters for the 21st District in New York, and he entered a room full of cigar smoke and men who all turned and looked at him, because into this headquarters walked a Theodore who was dressed as a member of his class would. He was dressed very finely, he had his Harvard drawl, he had his sideburns. He was very obviously, like, the elite. What's he doing here? He was distrusted immediately.

Everyone just did not understand why Lord Theodore had come down to come and see what they were doing. It's like, go back to down Monaco's and leave us to actually trying to do the politics of the area. In fact, I'll quote Theodore here. Some of them sneered at my black coat and tall hat, but I made them understand that I should come dressed as I chose.

Which is a quote that I really think sums Theodore Roosevelt up very well. I'm a man of the people, whether they like it or not. There was no attempt to actually try and get to become one of them. He just wanted to go and be there and see it and do things his way. Anyway, it took a while for him to get ingrained in local politics, but once he did, he thoroughly enjoyed political life. In fact, he enjoyed it so much, he gave up on being a lawyer. He just gave up studying the law.

He wasn't going to do that anymore. So he carried on being a lawyer. He just gave up studying the law. He wasn't going to do that anymore. Yeah. So he carried on in local politics. By this point, his history manuscript was published. It was highly praised by those in the field. His work was even accepted in Britain, which was pretty much unheard of, the British accepting an American historian on something. Well, of course, yeah. The Ruffians, why would we listen to them? Exactly. But yeah, I mean, Theodore's obsessive nature led him to really dive into the details, and he produced a

pretty good work of history considering he's in his early 20s and this was his first manuscript. Now, after a while of forcing himself into local politics, he was elected to the State Assembly. He was noticed immediately. The Democratic newspaper in Albany called him His Lordship, because still hooty snooty. Yeah,

he's 23 years old, loud, excitable, and incredibly posh. He was a joy for the journalists who would follow him around and just see what he was getting up to. He got a lot of the journalists who would follow him around and just see what he was getting up to. He got a lot of backs up, not just the Democrats, but also the Republicans. Remember the Tammany Hall faction were in New York at this time, so the Stolwolds. Conkling's pretty much gone,

but his faction, or what it turned into, remains. And they want everything to stay as it is, as we've seen before. Theodore, however, looked around the assembly and did not like what he saw. In fact, I'll quote here, The average Catholic Irishman of the first generation as represented in this assembly is a low, corrupt brute. first generation as represented in this assembly is a low corrupt brute. Yeah, either the people in the assembly were, in his opinion, just corrupt brutes or they were just fully in the pockets of robber barons. There weren't any good moral people in the assembly. He just didn't see anything he liked. But still, he was there and he was going to do a damn good job.

So, one of the things that he disliked most was the fact that a good third of the Assembly, in his estimation, were in the pockets of the robber barons of the day. So, he was going to go after the biggest of the robber barons. This, at this time, is Jay Gould, who we have come across before. Yeah, you mentioned him. Yeah. Now, Roosevelt made no attempt to hide his contempt

for those in the Assembly who worked for Gould. And because of this, one day, Roosevelt was informed by a concerned citizen, shall we say, that Gould was behind a vast illegal operation. Now, we've got no time to go into the ins and outs of this. Let's just say Gould was making money in the usual way for the time money was being moved around businesses and trumped up fees were being charged to the government etc etc uh stuff that we've kind of covered before so it's guilty as hell

oh god yeah yeah what made it worse this in this case though is that one of the Supreme Court judges was in on it. This was Judge Westbrook. Now, the Supreme Court judges were a big deal. They're supposed to be one third of the branch of government. They're supposed to be equal with the President and Congress. So having one of them in on it is bad. Now, Theodore, although nervous about taking on arguably the most powerful man in the country at the time, stood up in the assembly and declared that a formal investigation should take place into Judge Westbrook. He essentially said that Gould was in on large-scale

corruption involving the judge. Everyone in this room knows it, but two of you are too scared to do anything or are in his pocket. Did he start doing chicken impressions? Yes. In fact, with the chickens that he had on him. They're coming in handy. Apparently the room was silent when he finished, but before a vote could be taken on whether to start an investigation, a man who was very firmly in the pocket of gold stood up to speak

and speak and speak and managed to run the clock out. He denounced this young fool for being so crass. How dare you come in here and accuse the great Jay Gold of corruption? You don't know what you're talking about. One member of the assembly afterwards stated, and I quote,

the damn fool, he would tread on his own balls just as quickly as he would his neighbours. Oh. Yeah. So he's going to ruin this for everyone. Yeah. But the tide was turning. As we've seen, around this time, demand for reform starts to get louder.

People and many politicians wanted reform and were fed up with the Gilded Age. Well, when the vote, which had been delayed as much as possible, came through, Theodore won. And an investigation was indeed set up. Things get a bit tough for Theodore around this time. A honey trap was set up for him by Gould. A woman tripped and fell in front of him and then attempted to get him into a place alone where some men were waiting.

Fortunately, Theodore wanted nothing to do with this woman. After all, he had Alice at home, who he was obsessed with. The honey trap failed, but yeah, Gould was obviously trying to shut this man up. However, although that failed, Gould was more successful in the back rooms making deals. The investigation went exactly how you would expect it to go. Judge Westbrook was found

to be, I quote, indiscreet and unwise, but had done nothing wrong. When this was read out, a furious Theodore shot up in the assembly once more and declared that Westbrook and I quote, stands condemned by his own acts in all honest people's

eyes, and that anyone who defended him would be tainted by this in the future. Theodore had lost, but he'd made a name for himself with the reformers in the party. They had a new champion, a younger upstart. The Stalwarts utterly hated him. The Tammany faction despised him. But as we've seen, I mean, their days are starting to be numbered.

Conkling's recently fallen. It seems like he's on the fast track here. Yeah. I mean, he's only just started out, but his name was very much pegged as a rising star. And there was more good news, because Alice was pregnant. How did that happen? I don't know, but Theodore was probably very enthusiastic about it. Anyway, to celebrate, he decides to go on a bit of a holiday. He wants to go and explore the Wild West. He'd read a lot about it. Time to go and explore. Deadwood.

Alice was four months pregnant and not too pleased that Theodore wanted to head off. Now's not the time, Theodore. Well, Theodore really wanted to go and hunt some buffalo, though. He'd never stuffed one of those. I mean, you'd need a lot of sand, but... Yeah. Sand's no barrier. He's got money.

But Theodore's friend, who he was due to go with, however, dropped out last minute. So it looked like the holiday was off, much to Alice's relief. But then Theodore decided, ah, I'll just go on my own instead. It'll be fine.

So off he goes, off to the badlands of Dakota to hunt buffalo. Okay. He arrived, managed to find a hotel, and then the next day, I say hotel, sort of shack, Then the next day managed to hire a guide and they set out and it rained and it rained and their food got spoiled and all they had was biscuits that they survived on the crumbs.

Rattlesnakes almost bit him and his horse several times. Same rattlesnake or different ones? Different rattlesnakes. He shot them as they came along. Yeah, for over a week, life was utterly miserable. In fact, I'll quote him here, isn't this bully? By God, it's fun. He would exclaim over and over again to his guide. He said bully. He's known for that, isn't he? Yes. Bully! Yeah, he was very excited. I mean, conditions were awful, but wow, he was having so much fun.

You get the impression his guide was sat there nibbling on the damp biscuit crumbs, just fuming, like, who the hell is this Easterner who's come over? I'm hating this. Yeah. Eventually, they found a buffalo and they killed it. Way. Writing back home to a very pregnant Alice, Theodore wrote how much fun he was having,

which I'm sure she was pleased about. I love to compare Alice's and Theodore's diaries. In fact, Theodore loved it so much that before he left, he decided to start up a ranch, like you do. He got chatting to his guide's brother once they got back to the town that he'd originally stayed in. His guide's brother said, yeah, all right, I'll set up a ranch for you. Much to their surprise, Theodore just gave them $14,000 and said, set up a ranch for me in the area then. I'll come and see it when I next pass through.

Oh, he's never made a ranch in his life, has he? Who, Theodore? Oh, the guy. Oh, no, to be fair, yeah, they did know what they were doing. That's right. But the fact that this Eastman has just come along and just handed them $14,000 and said, and just trusted them to buy a herd and set

up a ranch. Fortunately for Theodore they do. And he didn't just leg it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Theodore returns home. He carried on his work in Albany for a while and then in February 1884 he received a telegram one evening that Alice had given birth

to a baby girl. Bully! Well, in the morning, his colleagues all crowded around him and celebrated with him at the birth of his firstborn. But then a second telegram came and stopped all celebrations in their tracks. Oh no. He needed to get home immediately. Theodore rushed for a train. An age later, he arrived in a New York city that was choked in fog. He rushed through the fog-filled streets, and his brother greeted him at his door. I'll quote his brother here, there was a curse on this house. Do you want to guess what's happened? I'm thinking worst case scenario, bad case scenario, child has died.

Yeah. Worst case scenario, mother and child have died. I'll finish the quote. Remember, this is the brother of Theodore. There is a curse on this house. Mother is dying and Alice is dying also. Oh, that's even worse. Yeah.

Well, maybe. Well, I mean, it's horrible. It's hard to compare. But yeah, I mean, it's horrible. It's hard to compare. But yeah, I mean, it just came out of the blue. Obviously, on the train home, he was imagining the worst. He was imagining his child, his wife, or both. But he gets home. It turns out that it's his wife and his mother who are lying in their deathbeds.

Because he struggled with the death of his dad. Yeah. Martha was suffering from typhoid. And Alice was suffering from typhoid and Alice was suffering from Bright's disease, which had been undiagnosed. Oh dear. It was an extremely painful night as Theodore

and his siblings went between the two rooms watching both Martha and Alice failing. Oh no. Theodore's mother died at 3am and Alice lasted about 12 hours more. Oh. And then died.

Theodore drew a large black cross in his diary and wrote, I quote, Oh, that's really sad. Alice as well, his obsession, his... Yeah. Oh. After a double funeral, he was back in Albany within a week. Back to work. Wow.

Yeah, he was going to work his way out of his grief. I mean, this certainly affected him, as we're going to see. This definitely affects him, but he just refused to talk to anyone about what had happened. He locked it away. Yeah, he did a sensible thing, bottled it up and confined it. Oh yes, definitely. But yeah, he did a sensible thing, bottled it up and confined it. Oh yes, definitely. His daughter, who would be named Alice, after obviously the mother,

he refused to call Alice and called her Baby Lee. Anyway, the presidential campaign of 1884 was upon them, and that was what Theodore needed to take his mind off things. He worked very hard to keep Blaine from Maine, from being made the Republican nominee. He despised the Stalwarts, but the half-breeds were just as bad in his opinion.

They're as bad as each other, those factions. They're all both corrupt. We need actual reform. But, as we've seen in past episodes, Blaine got the nomination and would be taking on Cleveland to become president. Now, Theodore knew Cleveland quite well. If you remember back to Cleveland's episode,

he was actually in the New York Assembly at the same time as Theodore. So they worked together. And also, although Cleveland was a Democrat, he was also seen as a reformer. So actually, him and Theodore saw eye to eye on a lot of things, even though they're from different parties anyway many republicans outraged by the nomination of a obviously corrupt Blaine decided that an honest democrat was better than a corrupt republican

and they jumped and they decided to vote for the democratic nominee they became known as the mugwumps again as we've covered before. Everyone fully expected Theodore to do this as well. After all, he'd made a name for himself as a reformer. But in the smoky backrooms of Danmonico's, it was made very clear to the young Theodore, look, if you want a future in this party, you need to toe the line.

Swallow your pride and support Blaine. And then who knows, maybe something good will happen when Blaine wins and becomes president. So the guy started winking really obviously and nudging him. Yeah, yeah. Theodore was torn. I mean, he had his morals, but he also didn't want to lose his political future.

That's all he had left. He'd lost his wife. I mean... Oh. Yeah, it's... He didn't want to lose everything. And he was also running out of money, because although Theodore came from a very rich family

and inherited a lot, he also spent a lot of money. For example, buying ranches on a whim. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he definitely needed a future where he had a steady income. So he swallows his pride and he gets behind the Blaine campaign, much to the anger of the reformers in the party.

But it's fine. Once Blaine wins the election, he'll get a cushy job. Yeah. And then Blaine loses the election.'ll get a cushy job yeah and then blaine loses the election yeah he does yeah theodore lost everything in this gamble he lost the support of the reformers in the party and the half-breeds were out of power uh i'll quote him i do not believe i shall ever likely come back to political life his political career was gone so with his career in tatters and his wife dead and his child being looked after by his sister, Theodore decides to escape.

He's had enough. He thinks back to the place where he's had the most fun recently, and that was out west. He really enjoyed that hunting trip, and he's got a ranch now, so he's going to go over to his ranch. I mean, after all, he put a lot of his money into that ranch so let's go and make sure but it works well so over the next three years he lived in the wild west uh dakota close to the black hills deadwood uh well there are lots of stories about him living

the cowboy life uh but it's not quite like that to begin with he fit into the wild west as much as he had with the local politicians in new york he was a an eastern dandy or a dude who came over thinking he knew what the wild west would be like did he buy sort of like custom-made cowboy boots and a cowboy hat and it's like no one wears that kind of stuff here um well if he did to begin with he soon gets rid of them because he could ride and shoot but not exceptionally but he did have that obsessive personality and if he was going to settle in the badlands of dakota then he was going to do it right i'll settle better than anybody else yeah well he he was a ranch owner uh He was the man who hired the cowboys. He wasn't a cowboy himself, but he still got stuck in.

He still rode around wearing his spurs, just basically getting involved. Eventually, he was accepted in the region, but he's still very much taking position as the upper class of the area. Yeah. Now, also, not wanting to lose the link to government completely and also having that same sense of obligation that his father had, he decides to become the deputy sheriff of the area. I'm going to be a deputy sheriff.

Yeah, and he's got money and his name's Roosevelt, so obviously he can become the sheriff. Of course, sir. Here's your badge. Now, there's a chance that at this point, although it might have happened later, but I'm going to put it in here, that as the sheriff, Roosevelt one day arrested a horse thief called Steve.

Steve the horse thief. Darn you, Steve. Now, I mean, there's not anything that amazing about this story. Steve was wanted across the region. He was a horse thief and he was caught. Things like that happened relatively frequently. That's not the reason why I'm telling you this story.

The reason why I'm telling you this is because not long afterwards, Roosevelt headed towards a nearby town called Deadwood to settle some business. Deadwood! Oh, yes. On the way to Deadwood, he hadn't made it yet, but on the way to Deadwood,

he ran into another sheriff. I'll quote Roosevelt here. He received us with rather distant courtesy at first, but unbent when he found out who we were, remarking, you see, by your looks, I thought you were some kind of a tin horn gambling outfit, and I might have to keep an eye out on you. And the reason why I'm laughing while I'm

reading that is I can see Jamie on the screen getting very excited as I read. Who is it? Who is it? Go on have you guessed who it is? It's Seth Bullock. It is Seth Bullock yes. That is amazing. That's so cool. Seth Bullock and Theodore Roosevelt talked about the capturing of Steve because Seth Bullock had been after Steve the horse thief himself. And from this point onwards, the two became good friends. Now, unfortunately, there's really

not much time to go into this at this point, but Roosevelt will appoint Bullock to various positions throughout his life. Really? Wow. That's so cool. Roosevelt described Bullock as, I quote, a true westerner, the finest

type of frontiersman. Now, again, on the off chance you don't know what Deadwood is and you've not seen Deadwood. Watch it, watch it, watch it, watch it, watch it, watch it. The reason why Jamie is getting so excited is that Seth Bullock is played by Timothy Oliphant in Deadwood.

He is the protagonist of the show. So it's very good. Yes, there you go. Do you think Al Swearengin, do you think he met Al Swearengin, he went to the Gem? Oh yeah, undoubtedly, because he went to Deadwood on business at times.

So he definitely went into the Gem because that was the main bar at the time. So yeah, Deadwood, he met all of the people in Deadwood. He knew them, not probably as friends, but he went to Deadwood on business relatively frequently. That is amazing. Just think, he probably got called a

by Al Swearengen. He probably did. Although Theodore hated cussing, so he wouldn't have enjoyed that. Al wouldn't have cared. No, no, Al wouldn't have cared. Well, let's be fair, they didn't use that kind of language back then. Well, all you said was m***.

So who knows what that word is underneath that bleep. That's true. Yeah, I knew you'd like that bit. That is amazing. And who knows, maybe some special episodes will be done on the characters of Deadwood at some point. Because I think that would be interesting. Actually find out who those characters were.

But that's for another time. Yes! Series 2, Jamie. Series 2. Anyway, despite this, back to Theodore Roosevelt here. Roosevelt was apparently very despondent at times during his stay in the West. I mean, you really get the sense that this was him running away

from his life falling apart. Yeah. He hunted a grizzly bear uh which was fun better than the guy from the revenant yeah well it was it was dangerous stuff but he what he'd not stuffed one of them yet so he went and did that did you think in the big in the typical sort of that claws up mouth snarling kind of way yeah yeah i think so um yeah he wrote a three-part account of his time in the west quite a few stories come out at this time and unfortunately i've not got time to go into all of them uh he almost got into a jewel at one point um and at last we can stop thinking along the lines of an 18th century gentleman's jewel this is a full-on western quick draw style jewel not that those

actually happened but if they did they happened at noon in the in the main road exactly if ever it's going to happen in this podcast it's going to happen here uh unfortunately for our narrative but fortunately for theodore uh the jewel doesn't take place he was having a dispute with the other rich man in the town, the only other person who was part of the aristocracy of the area. This man actually really was aristocracy. He had links to the French royal family, and he

had dreams of heading back home to France to become the king. In the meantime, however, he was making money on beef. So, uh... There's some high aspirations. But yeah, the duel doesn't happen in the end, which is a shame. Anyway, Roosevelt can't escape his life forever.

His family ties and his political ties keep pulling him back east. He still attended the national conferences for the Republican Party. He still went to go and visit his sister, obviously to go and visit his sister, obviously to go and visit his daughter occasionally. And there was one other person who was there when he went to go and visit his sister who he was very pleased to see. Edith. Oh yes, Edith. Details again are very scarce, but at some point in this period he and Edith became engaged in secret. Very quickly, the two just get together again. Theodore was very ashamed of himself.

He firmly believed that marriage meant not just until death do us part, but until we're both dead. Second marriages shouldn't happen. It's a betrayal. But that's not why you're wearing vows. Until death parts us. It's what Theodore believed.

Alice is dead. No one, according to Theodore, should get married twice. But he was going to anyway. Yeah, filled with self-doubt, he wrote, Were I sure that there was a heaven, my one prayer would be that I might never go there, lest I should meet those I love on earth who are now dead. He was so ashamed of himself at what Alice and maybe his mother or father would think of him that he didn't

want to see them in the afterlife but he still was going to marry Edith because he wanted to marry Edith. So he's not that broke up about it then? Internally torn should we say. Yeah. Yeah anyway for a whole year their their engagement was hidden, even from his sisters, who he was very close with. Roosevelt spent more and more time in the East rather than the West, attempting to make money through writing a biography on Thomas Hart Benton, who we've come across before. You remember Benton was the guy who ended up in a shootout with Jackson

in front of a hotel? Yes. The Benton brothers, yeah. Yeah, so he writes a biography on Benton. Oh. This one wasn't a really detailed historical work. This was a quickly write something that could be published to make some money. I'm running low on money.

Roosevelt needed the money because the ranch was not doing very well. Of course it's not. Well, to be fair, it wasn't just his ranch. Everyone in the area was struggling. Remember, the economy is not good in America at this time for the average person. Not that Roosevelt's the average person, but being a rancher is a much more average thing to do. Anyway, Roosevelt feared that one harsh winter could destroy the place completely. So precarious had his finances become, in fact, that he realised he needed an actual job once more.

He couldn't just rely on writing history books. So he was going to get back into politics. He started by running to become the mayor of New York City. No one thought he was going to win this. It was a safe Democrat seat, but he went for it anyway just to get the experience and get his name out again. Sure enough, he lost. But he was kind of expecting it.

Almost immediately afterwards, he and Edith secretly booked passage for England, where they planned to wed. And they indeed married in London in 1886. He's keeping it very secret, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, he's well known as Theodore Roosevelt at this point.

I mean, he's not like household name, but in certain circles he's well known. And him marrying again quite so soon after Alice would be talked about, and he was ashamed himself. So he just didn't want anyone talking. Was it before the funeral? It was not before the funeral, no. Then it's okay. About three years passed, if I'm remembering off the top of my head correctly. Anyway, Roosevelt spent a few months spending his time with the elite of London,

going to the gentlemen's clubs. He seemed to enjoy England a bit more than last time when they refused to sell him arsenic. More animals to kill. Yeah. Then he travelled with his new wife through Europe, more Western Europe this time, to avoid the places he'd gone with Alice on their honeymoon. But then bad news reached them.

The Badlands had not only had a bad winter, but the worst winter in living memory. Fearing for his ranch, Roosevelt heads home. Obviously took a while, crossing the ocean and then getting to the west, but he gets there eventually. A good couple of weeks, when really it's a month or two. Oh, yeah, easily. Yeah, he was utterly horrified.

He sprang by that time. Well, the snow was starting to thaw enough for the bodies to start being discovered. Oh. When I say bad winter, I mean bad winter. I mean, the cattle in the area were just dead. The cattle did not survive. But it was also so bad that there were reports of children freezing to death after getting lost in blizzards between the house and the stables. Bloody hell. Yeah, this was bad, bad weather. Yeah, the ranch was gone. It was just gone. He'd

lost everything that he'd invested in it, and he was already struggling financially. So this didn't go down well. Shortly afterwards, after giving an after-dinner speech in Down Monaco's, you get a sense of how he felt at the time, because he was supposed to give an after-dinner speech, just a few light-hearted remarks, just marking the occasion, maybe telling a couple of stories about Out West

because he was known by this point for going out west and having his adventures. Did he just burst into tears and go, All is lost! Oh, you're not far off. More anger than sadness. Okay. He just went on a full-blown rant against everyone who he felt had ever crossed him.

Oh. Yeah. The fellow diners sat there awkwardly as Theodore just ranted on about how awful everyone was in the world, apart from him, basically. That's quite funny. Anyway, after leaving Dalmonaco's, he tries to get on with his life

and tries to figure out what's going to happen next. He only knows really how to make money quickly in one way, and that is to write books. So he starts another biography, this time on Governor Morris, a revolutionary era politician. Again, written as quickly as possible to just try and get some cash. It's not long before Edith was pregnant. Over the next few years, the couple have five children, plus little Alice has come to stay with them now. Over this period, Roosevelt really makes a push at becoming a historian.

In fact, I quote him, I should like to write a book that will really rank as the very first class. He figures if he can get a really good book or series of books out, then that would set him up for life. Now, he had a very different approach to writing history than most historians at the time. Most historians ascribed to a scientific method, an accounting of facts, bias being left at the door. Roosevelt more believed that bias was inevitable, so might as well roll with it. What people wanted was a good yarn, some good stories, be interested.

That's what people wanted. So you could always say what Roosevelt believed in was the complete opposite of what our podcast is. Oh yeah, definitely. We don't go into land of speculation at all and we're not just here for the interesting stories. Yeah, you do get the impression that Roosevelt was writing his

books in the same way we create the podcast. Let real historians do the actual history. We'll just have a chat about that history and enjoy it. Yeah. Now, he began work on what is usually seen as his greatest work, which is a series of books called The Winning of the West. The Winning of the West was a multi-part history of the frontier. It took Roosevelt a long time to write, but it went down very well at the time. It was well received by those in the field, but far more importantly to Roosevelt, it sold very

well. Not just the books, but extracts of it were published in magazines, which produced a steady income for him. That's pretty good. Let's just say that the winning of the West hasn't aged too well, however. Oh dear. Yeah. I mean, Roosevelt, although we've not really gone into it, was a full-blown expansionist. He fully believed in manifest destiny. The United States needed to expand, and it was their God-given right to do so.

Civilisation's duty, in fact, was to bring order to these, and I'll quote here, scattered savage tribes whose life was but a few degrees less meaningless, squalid, and ferocious than that of the wild beast with whom they had joint ownership. So it's comparing Native Americans to wildebeest

and animals. Yeah. Yeah. He recognized that the genocide of the Native americans not pretty put it that way uh was an awful process of course it was uh but he argued that it was a necessary one again i'll quote the most ultimately righteous of all wars is the war with the savages though it is apt to also be the most terrible and inhumane so it's inhumane, it's awful, it's the worst thing that could possibly happen, but it's necessary. Exactly. Yeah. It's not a good look, should we say? No. No, the book doesn't age well. But these were Roosevelt's thoughts, that he believed in very strongly. The United States was God's country and it would expand and bring civilization to the world. Well, it's brought Coca-Cola.

It did bring Coca-Cola, you're right. What year are we in, roughly? 1880, 1890? Yeah, yeah, we're around there. Oh, Coca-Cola's around then. Yeah, yeah, there you go. That's a bit more light-hearted, that thought, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, let's move away from the depressing racism, shall we? It was as the book was being finished that his political fortunes start to change also. Cleveland had just been beaten by Benjamin Harrison. The Republicans were in charge once more, so perhaps, maybe, there's space for him in a job, maybe? He'd been out of the game for a while. Maybe the past ruptures could be fixed, perhaps. And also, by this time, he had a very good friend named Henry Cabot Lodge,

who was a rising star in the Republicans. So perhaps Lodge could put in a good word with Harrison and Blaine and those high up in the party. Just see if there's anything going, you know? Yeah. Lodge did inquire, but Blaine from Maine put a stop to it immediately. He had not forgotten how anti-half-breed

Roosevelt had been, even if he did support Blaine eventually in his presidential run. Blaine wrote to Lodge saying essentially that Roosevelt was far too unpredictable and aggressive for politics. However, Roosevelt didn't give in, and Lodge kept badgering also. And eventually, a small role was found for him. Roosevelt was going to become one of the three United States Civil Service Commissioners. Well, that sounds pretty good for him because he's sort of into, you know, work and giving people a chance. To keep it simple, this job, this committee's job, was to uphold the Pendleton Act,

which I've mentioned before, but just to remind you, this was the push for the civil service reform, where civil servants now had to actually pass a test to get a job rather than just knowing the right person. Now, this had been set up six years previously, and it had done very little. This committee was a rubber stamp. It was proof that the government was serious about reform, honestly.

But actually, they didn't really do much. It's stabilising the status quo, isn't it? Yeah, it's just putting a public face to reform without having to actually do anything about it. Roosevelt had been given this job precisely because it was where politicians went to die. Eventually, it was a case of, fine, we'll give him a job, bang him into the Civil Service Committee. Here, do no harm there.

It's not really got any power. Oh, by the way, do you want to guess how old Roosevelt is by this point? I imagine he's probably in his 30s by this point. He's literally only just turned 30. Really? Yeah. That's insane. Action-packed life. Very action-packed life. I've just turned 33. I've done

nothing. Yeah, I know. You're trying to say that you've not toured Europe three times, set up your own ranch, had a family, had your wife die, remarried, been in the State Assembly. You've not done any of that? I've been to Egypt.

Oh, well, well done, well done. Right, anyway, for the next six years, Roosevelt became the bane of many a politician's career. Roosevelt attacked the job like he did everything else in his life. In fact, I quote him, you can guarantee that I intend to hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may. Roosevelt saw it as his role to investigate any rumor of corruption that he heard whatsoever. I mean, he was told go in there and just administer the tests

on the few jobs that need them. Roosevelt saw this job as a full-on crime-fighting, beat-corruption kind of job. Yeah. When everyone, like Democrats and Republicans together, realized that Roosevelt was on the warpath against corruption, they very quickly tried to shut him down, but soon realized that Roosevelt had the power to refuse to conduct examinations in their district, effectively freezing their power to grant certain favours through job creation. No one kind of realised it to begin with,

but Roosevelt did actually have some power in this job if he chose to use it. And he did. He made very few friends, as you can imagine. Harrison was soon really regretting allowing him to be put into this position. That's our quote Harrison here. He wants to put an end to all the evil in the world between sunrise and sunset. It didn't help that Roosevelt decided that surprise inspections of the civil service was what was really needed to make sure everything was working correctly. Oh no. Oh yes. He was going to start, oh, I don't know where to begin.

How about the Midwest? Why not Harrison's hometown? Yeah. Harrison had given the job of the postmaster back in his hometown to an old friend of his. I'll be amazed if you remember, but you're going to be excited. Guess who he'd given the job of postmaster to in Ohio? Harrison had a friend who he went to war with. He wasn't Scottish.

Oh, William Wallace. Yes, yes, it's William Wallace. He's back in the story. Brilliant. He's older now, but there are no fewer English heads mounted on his wall, that's for sure. No. Hey, maybe we Scott, but I don't need a Zimmer. That's not an accent.

What was that? I don't know. It's half German. William Wallace, like I say, was the postmaster, and he'd done what people usually do, which is give out some jobs to some friends. usually do which is give out some jobs to some friends. Roosevelt suddenly storms into the area and forced Wallace to fire three of his staff who he said was corrupt. You can take my staff you can't take my freedom. Yeah well Roosevelt took his staff William Wallace was outraged Harrison was outraged. Roosevelt pleased as chips, as they say.

In fact, I'll quote him, we stirred things up well, he wrote to his friend Lodge after coming back. I mean, the fact that he singled out Harrison's good friend for this, it's like he went for the president after the president gave this role. It was an obvious statement.

But, I mean, it wasn't just Harrison's friends he was going to go after. He then spent the next few years just sweeping the country, trying to just find any evidence of corruption and get rid of it wherever he could find it. One day, he received word of widespread corruption in Baltimore, linked to the Postmaster General himself. So, the national in to the Postmaster General himself. So the national in

charge, Postmaster General. After an investigation that he did personally, which involved him going down to Baltimore on an election day, which no one was pleased about, he wrote a report to President Harrison recommending firing 25 appointments in the city. These 25 men were all men who were important men who had been given these jobs as a favour and were supporters of Harrison. And Roosevelt was very publicly saying they were all corrupt and they needed to be fired. A formal investigation was set up, finding that the Postmaster General had indeed failed to enforce the law. This was very embarrassing for Harrison, in particular because

he was up for re-election and this made him look corrupt. Roosevelt was not making friends, but he was also making a lot of friends. As you can imagine, if you're upsetting someone, you're probably pleasing someone else. The reformers in the party had completely forgiven Roosevelt for his past indiscretions by this point. They were loving his work. Anyway, Harrison then lost the election, as we saw, and Cleveland was back in. Usually this would be the end of the job, because obviously Cleveland was a Democrat and Roosevelt was a Republican. But remember, the two knew each other from working in the State Assembly, and they were both reformers. So Cleveland approached Roosevelt

and said, actually, no, you can continue if you want. After all, you've proven you're willing to go after Republicans. So, yeah. Yeah, fair enough. You seem to have annoyed your own party more than ours at the moment, so keep doing what you're doing. However, Roosevelt was getting bored of this job. I mean, he continued for a bit,

but after a while he starts to look for a new challenge. So he now has his eye on the New York City Police Commissioner job. I mean, he continued for a bit, but after a while he starts to look for a new challenge. So he now has his eye on the New York City Police Commissioner job. Why not? Well, he likes corruption. Well, he likes fighting corruption, so it'd be like a... Yeah, and there literally was, I don't think I'm being hyperbolic here, nothing more corrupt than the New York City Police Force at this time. So if you're going to go and fight corruption you might as well wade right into it and start trying to sort it out. His six years as

a civil service commissioner had really set him up for this job. Due to the sheer force of his personality and his obsessive traits he'd managed to make what should have been a dead end job one that was now nationally recognised. When he was a civil service commissioner,

newspapers had covered Roosevelt's bulldog tactics with glee, knowing that Roosevelt was always going to be ready with an interesting quote or a story with them as he was whipping up anger in the political parties. So when he became the police commissioner, which sure enough he did, the press came with him. It got to the point where he'd be able to lean out of the window

and just shout a reporter's name and they'd come running because he had a really good relationship with the press. On the first day of the job, he strode into the police headquarters announcing, where are our offices? Where's the boardroom? What do we do first? And I imagine he slapped his hands together with glee. Everyone's sitting there going, oh, good God. Yeah. we do first and i imagine he slapped his hands together with glee everyone's in that good oh

good god yeah i'm just going to sum up his time as the police commissioner with one word which is whirlwind we certainly don't have time to cover everything here so i'm only going to give you the highlights uh he approached this job in the same way he had the last one if he heard a rumor he followed it up uh the law was the law, damn it, and that did not change for anyone. Didn't matter how much money you had and what name you had. To begin with, the superintendent,

so, like, the head actual police officer in the city, was fired. He was a corrupt friend of Jay Gould. He had to go. So that's it. He just took the head of the police force straight away. The force was then shaken from top to bottom,

looking for corruption. Anyone caught, thrown out the force. Roosevelt himself would often go out at midnight and do the rounds, which was just hated by the average policeman. I mean, to begin with, whilst walking around the city at midnight,

he discovered that many of the officers were not actually doing their patrols at all. Sign a piece of paper to get their paycheck to say they're out all night, but they weren't actually working. Those police officers he did come across, he would stop and then question at length about what exactly they'd been doing and what they were going to be doing and general procedural questions but patrolling sir that's our quote to reporter from the time when he asks a question mr roosevelt shoots it at the poor trembling policeman as he would shoot a bullet at a coyote yeah he essentially apparently he just wandered around the streets in the middle of the

night um with a big grin on his face showing off his big white teeth that he had and just would bully the police officers and be over enthusiastic. Is it bullying or is it making accountable? I think you can do both. That's true. Yeah he introduced physical exams and passing tests for promotions rather than just who had the right handshake. As you can imagine, the Tammany Hall faction were, by this point, despairing. Stolwolds were being kicked out of cushy jobs by this bloody Roosevelt fellow again. Why the hell is this young upstart being allowed to cause so much upheaval? Just why?

Oh, and by the way, just to really stress the point, by this point, he's our age. He's now mid-30s. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, in return, to the Stolwolds making it clear they weren't happy about what he was doing, Roosevelt started to really appreciate

just how unfair life had become in the country. I mean, don't forget, in his youth, his father would take him around New York City, looking at various places and looking how the poor lived. But he went to go and see charities and hospitals and asylums, where people were at least trying to do things, and he could feel that his family was making the world a better place. As the New York City police commissioner, he actually saw the city properly for the first time in his life. He went

everywhere and he soon saw firsthand the slums that entire families were squeezed into. He knew personally the landlords and how much money those landlords were spending in the courts fighting to keep the right to not improve the living conditions of their tenants rather than just improving the living conditions. He really starts to get annoyed with the robber barons of the country and just how rubbish everyone else's lives were, basically. He made his views very clear. He didn't hide the fact that these were his views, and he'd share them with the newspapers, like I'd say. So again, not making many friends.

Outside of the city, the rest of the country soon started to take notice. He was a national figure by this point. He was making a lot of noise, and the newspapers from other cities were very positive, praising the fact that someone was actually standing up to the corruption at long last. New York City itself however actually had to live with Roosevelt and his obsessive nature and his unwillingness to bend and it was starting to cause problems because there was a law, I mean, no one followed this law. It was an old law that everyone just ignored, but it was a law that said that alcohol could not be served on a Sunday. Now, no one paid attention to it, especially the large German population who

tradition was you'd spend Sunday drinking beer with your friends. It was just what you did. Yeah, it was a stupid law. So it had gone off the books, really, in all but name. Now, Roosevelt didn't agree or disagree with the law. That wasn't the point. It's the law. Yeah, it was the law, so it must be upheld. And then hopefully, who knows, I mean, enough people objected, then the politicians would change the law. But that's how it works. You can't just let something slide just because no one really liked the law anymore so he starts to very vigorously enforcing the crackdown of selling of alcohol on sundays now it did not help that the rich gentlemen's clubs and restaurants were exempt from this for various loopholes yeah the elite could still sip their whiskey

and almonacos but the stevedore from the harbour couldn't get a beer in the pub that's not a good look Roosevelt's strict enforcing of these rules as you can imagine starts to take its toll on his popularity and soon enough, Roosevelt's reforms were not enough to keep the general public

happy a non-corrupt police force is brilliant but was it worth trading for a pint on a Sunday? These were hard questions. Roosevelt's enemies in Tammany Hall soon realised this was a huge weakness for Roosevelt. Soon enough, all manner of half-forgotten laws were dug out. So I thought the idiot's going to try and enforce any actual law. So let's find some obscure laws and let them be known. Let's have fun, essentially.

Yeah. For example, there was a law about selling ice on certain days and just really weird, obscure laws that his enemies let be known just to see how he'd cope with them. Roosevelt essentially gets to the point where he's got no friends anymore. Even the reformers are not supporting him anymore because he's been too rigid. The mayor of the city publicly says that he should be fired. There were rumours that in Albany there were full-blown plots being put together to have him removed because he's causing too much damage.

Roosevelt realised his time was up. Perhaps it's time to move on. But this timing was as good as it could be because, after all, Cleveland was out and McKinley was now in as president. Ooh, getting close then. Oh yes, the Republicans were back in power. Perhaps, just as before, there was room for him. Maybe. just as before, there was room for him, maybe. Maybe he could get a better job in government. I don't know, working for one of the secretaries. In fact, he'd always really loved the Navy. After all, he'd written his history on the Navy.

He knew his boats. He knew them well. He knew the lyrics to all the song as well. In the Navy. Yeah, he could sing What Should We Do with the Drunken Sailor so well he could harmonise with himself. He split it three part staggered singing. Three part harmony. Yeah, it's very impressive.

In the Navy. He decided he really wanted to be the Assistant Secretary of the Navy. So we let that be known. McKinley was not convinced. Roosevelt was seen as a loose cannon, a very loud loose cannon at that. However, although Roosevelt had made several enemies, he'd also made several enemies who wanted him out of New York. And giving him a job in Washington

would get him out of the police commissioner job. So lots of powerful people start to have some backroom conversations. And plus he did have some supporters. Obviously some support reformers were behind him. There was enough chatter about him that eventually it was decided that he would be given the post of the assistant secretary of the Navy. Oh, he must love that. Oh yeah, he was cock-a-hoop, he was, getting this position. And there we go, now we catch up with last episode.

I'm not going to go into the build-up with Spain once more, obviously. We covered that last week. But yeah, just know that when all the tensions with Spain are happening and McKinley's attempting to stop the war diplomatically, Roosevelt's in the navy department now he was the assistant secretary of the navy don't forget but the actual secretary of the navy was much older than him and was often just away leaving roosevelt in charge he also didn't know the first thing about the navy as he himself put it what's the point in learning about

all these ships since i've got roosevelt who knows them like the back of his hand essentially so i don't need to know the details i've got an assistant who knows all the details yeah roosevelt in his usual way became completely obsessed and this time it was obsessed with the idea of going to war with spain he was completely convinced that it needed to happen the united United States needed to expand, after all. And the best way to expand at the moment would be to get Cuba, or at least get the Spanish off Cuba.

So, yeah, he starts very publicly discussing how the war needs to happen. Sometimes he'd wait for the actual secretary. His name was Long. Sometimes he'd wait for Secretary Long to be off work, and then he would personally start ordering the Navy to get onto a war footing. If there was going to be a war, then the Navy was going to be ready to jump off immediately. Long wasn't convinced, but Roosevelt kind of worked around Long to make sure it happened.

Just like when he was the police commissioner, he would pop up all over the place for surprise inspections and ask endless questions and just make sure everyone's ready for this war that Harrison officially was saying wasn't going to happen. Sometimes he went a little bit too far. He was still talking to the press a lot, and he told one reporter, I quote, The United States is not in a position which requires her to ask Japan or any foreign power

what territory it shall or shall not require, which is a very war-drummy thing to say. Long was furious when he found out about this. He was in charge of the Navy Department and he did not want the Navy Department to be beating the war drum right now, but Roosevelt was doing it anyway. But, as we saw, McKinley, although starting out opposed to the war, was actually very

expansionist himself, and soon the President started finding himself agreeing with what this enthusiastic Assistant Secretary was saying. Roosevelt was invited to the White House one day, and the two men found that they actually had some quite similar views when it came to where the United States needed to expand to. I mean, they didn't see eye to eye on many things, but in this particular case they did. And then the main was sunk, you remember? The ship went down in the land harbour. It took 20 years to build. Yeah, no one really knew exactly why it had been sank or how it had been sank, but many in America were more than happy to blame the Spanish. Roosevelt officially did not speculate on such things, of course not,

but in private he made it very clear to as many people as possible that the Spanish were definitely behind the explosion and they needed to go to war. There was one other thing he made very clear, even to the president himself, which was, when you finally do declare war, because war will be declared, I'm going to go myself. When the war starts, he was not going

to sit it out. He was going to go. And that is where we're going to end this week's episode. So he's going to war. Yes, because war is declared and Roosevelt's on his way. We literally have just got to the point where he starts doing things that he's famous for.

All of this up to this point is... Being enthusiastic. Yeah, stuff he's also done in his life. So there you go. Is that how you imagine the first half of Roosevelt to go? Yeah, sort of, yeah. Yeah, any surprises? I thought it would be more of a trajectory going up

rather than a bit of a nothing, then back into it again. Yeah, yeah, him running away to the West. But you can understand why to the break. Yeah, just trying to escape his wife's death and his career falling apart. Yeah, I mean, his going to the West, he later says, is what made him. If he hadn't have done that,

he'd always just be this loud-mouthed Easterner, whereas now he could pull support from the East and the West and claim that he knows what it's like out there. Yeah. But yeah, no, he is an interesting guy. He really is. There are some things that i don't like about him but there are some things i do like about him yeah don't like his racism no

no that's definitely not good yeah his imperialism his expansionism um that that makes me go oh theodore come on now but his uh hatred of the corruption i i think he's he's that character um and that uh almost stereotype of uh someone who is so rich uh and has led such a charm life that they can feel like they're above the fray yeah and they're just walking around, why aren't you all being so moral? But then he's not actually had to do anything in his life to actually work to survive. Even though he had money problems, they're not like he's struggling to eat money problems. It's he's struggling to pay for his massive mansion money problems, which isn't the same thing. No. When he became, is it police commission the commission person uh he reminded me there of uh

from the discworld series captain carrot yes very much so i i definitely get that feeling from from him slightly just no one has to quite understand what's going on why why is this young man shouting questions at me i've been a police officer for 20 years. Who the hell? Oh, good God, he's staring at me. Yeah. I like the fact that he doesn't make any friends. Yeah, he seems to be distancing almost everybody, which will be interesting for his presidency.

Because I'm assuming his friends are the political people around him. It'll be interesting to notice how the people see him. Yes, yes yeah don't forget in mckinley's episode though mckinley wasn't too pleased with the idea of roosevelt being his vice president he was just so popular with the public at the time that he felt it was a good idea and vice presidents don't do anything anyway so it's fine well he will though next time we will see

exactly what he does that makes him so popular to the public because he's not done it yet but that is for next time which will probably be an even longer episode than this anyway can

download us from Podbean and nope you can yeah yes you can yes you can download us from Podbean and iTunes and don't

forget to follow us on Facebook and Twitter yes and thank you very much please leave reviews if you've enjoyed Theodore Roosevelt's episode.

Yeah, and until next time. Bore! Goodbye. Ah, Theodore! Oh, it's you. Oh, come in, cousin. Come in. Oh, please, please ignore the mess. Okay, that's okay.

Are you okay? You're looking awfully pale and the drapes are shut. Yes. Here, let me open them. Oh, my God! What's that? That? That's the skin of an elk. What's that? That? That's the skin of an elk. What's an elk? It's a cross between a whalk and an eel.

Anyway, why are you even here, cousin? I'm just... Let me just catch my breath. Well, I'm just here to see that you're okay. Your mother sent me over to see how you're doing. Oh, not well, to be honest, cousin. Not well at all. You look awfully gaunt. Yes, not well, to be honest, cousin. Not well at all. You look awfully gaunt. Yes, well, if truth be told, my heart has been split in twain.

Oh, no, my dear cousin. What is that? That? That's a Spox. What? A Spox? A spider and a fox, man. Seriously, anyway. I'm flattered that people are concerned about me, but I must insist you go. I must be left in solitude with my work. Your work? Yes, my work. Obviously, I must woo Alice. That is my work now.

So by wooing Alice, you're killing animals, stuffing them, and displaying them. It's a bit weird. I'm hoping it will help. I showed her my P. mus. You showed your what? My P. mus. It's on the shelf over there. A peacock and a muskrat. That looks horrendous.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm going through an experimental phase at the moment with the animal stuffing. It became a bit too easy just stuffing a normal animal. Anyway... This is horrendous. Well, I've got to say after seeing all this and your

gaunt expression and the weird things you have around your room, I've been informed that I must take you back home. Theodore, come with me. But my place is here with Alice. I don't think I can do that. Oh, fine. A cup of tea before we go.

What, one sugar? Oh, yes, please. That'd be fantastic. In fact, make it two. There you go, then. Right. I must admit, yes, it would be nice to see Mother and baby once more. Okay, then, cousin. You've convinced me a short holiday would be... Yes. Cousin? Cousin?

Oh. Oh, dear cousin, you know what I've gone and done? That wasn't the shi... That was the arsenic, wasn't it? Oh, not again. Still, round two on the HewCats.