American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 26.2 Theodore Roosevelt

Episode Date: May 31, 2020

Last time TR seemed to do just about everything there is to do - now he is off to war! Find out how he achieved fame in Cuba and goes on to become the president against his own parties wishes. NOTE - in our excitement, we added his score wrong - take 1 point off what we say at the end. EDIT: Episode edited and updated. In the orginal Lieutenant Ord's ethnicity was incorrectly identified as black. Two lines that Rob says has been edited to make sure it is clear he was white. These changes do not change the narrative of the episode.  

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Theodore Roosevelt Part 2. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Total at Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump. And this is episode 26.2, Theodore Roosevelt part 2. Sorry for the delay. If you're listening to the future and you're binge listening, we had to delay this episode for a week we're still in lockdown coronavirus is still running amok

so yeah things are a bit hectic at the moment but we're here now we're here with part two it's going to be a long one so strap yourself in I've got my safety belt done up already which is good are you ready for the opening?

I still don't, I literally have no idea what it is because I forgot to do one. So I'm hoping you're going to give me a good starting point here. Yeah, I'll throw you a bone. Start with, do you want me to give you the whole picture? That might help. Yeah, go for it. Okay, like grey background with m mottled gray so dark patches lighter patches like a like like almost like fog almost like a mist i'm quite sure what it is

okay and then slowly through one end of the the visual you get this very slowly spinning rotating silver bullet continue okay i'm thinking of the wall that's where i'm going with this okay a bullet going through some smoke. Yeah? Yeah. Okay, now I can do this. Right, so the bullet slowly, we're talking Matrix bullet time here,

goes past the camera, and the camera spins with the bullet, and now we are like third person riding with the bullet. The smoke suddenly clears. You realise as the bullet, you've just travelled through a patch of smoke, and then the smoke suddenly clears you realize you as the bullet you've just traveled through a patch of smoke and then it just suddenly clears battlefield and you see this bullet's traveling down towards down a hill towards lots of men fighting and in the distance you're heading right towards them are two figures one on horseback and one just lying flat on the ground

i like the idea that the bullet's off like dodging things as well it's like you're going on like a are two figures, one on horseback and one just lying flat on the ground. I like the idea that the bullet's sort of dodging things as well. It's like you're going on a path. It's like a determined little bullet. Yeah, exactly. So it goes around a tree, that kind of thing. Yeah, so it's sort of sweeping and swirling. Bullets always do this.

It's just so quick, we never really notice. Yeah, that's true. Anyway, so yeah, we never really notice. Yeah, it's true. Anyway, so yeah, we're still going. And you can see the man on the horse is shouting at the man lying prone on the ground. The guy on the ground has his hands over his head and he's looking a bit panicked. And because the bullet is sort of weaving and ducking and diving, you're not entirely sure which one the bullet's going for. And you're getting closer and closer. The guy on the horse has some

brilliant teeth and some big, thick glasses, and the guy on the floor, you can't see his face because he's hiding, and it ducks and it weaves, and then you're getting closer, so you can start to hear what the man's saying on the horse. He's saying something along the lines

of, get up, man, get up. If you don't move, you'll be shot. Foreshadowing. Well, just at that point, the bullet heads right for the guy on the horse, and then last second just weaves to the right and just goes straight into the head of the guy lying on the floor.

And don't cut to black, we are with the bullet still going through everything. So we get to see some brain and then a bit of spine um bit of fight club style yeah yeah we go right through the body uh horizontally with the bullet and then as it comes out the body near near the nether regions um obviously there's a sort of explosion of gore and that gore hits the screen in the shape of the words Theodore Roosevelt.

Part two. That's brutal. Yeah. We left off with Roosevelt about to go to war. Remember the United States and Spain were about to fight over Cuba. Yeah. Now to begin with, Roosevelt headed to Texas, because in Texas is where a new regiment

was being assembled, ready to train up. This new regiment was being raised by Roosevelt himself and his friend, Wood. Wood was an ex-military man who was currently in Washington serving as a medical doctor. Now, the Secretary of War had offered for Roosevelt to lead this new regiment, but Roosevelt, although delighted by the offer, he had no experience of war whatsoever. It's like, it makes no sense for me to lead the regiment, he said. It'd make far more sense if I was just a lieutenant colonel instead. That's a much more sensible starting position. Oh, brilliant. Yeah. So friend of Roosevelt, ex-military man, his friend Wood, was named colonel instead.

So Wood was going to lead the regiment. Roosevelt, his right-hand man. So, as I say, they head down to Texas and they start recruiting. A lot of people sign up. Volunteers flood in. What's that? Roosevelt, he's making a new regiment. I'll of people sign up. Volunteers flood in. What's that? Roosevelt. He's making a new regiment. I'll give that a go.

He's loud. Well, yeah, he's a household name by this point. If you remember, the press certainly liked him, and he was in the newspapers a lot. So, if you were going to go off and fight the war, and a lot of people were very keen on the war, then you might as well go and fight for that guy who's been causing all the fuss in New York.

Yeah. So the men assembled in Texas, they were a hodgepodge group of young men, shall we say. You got everything from rough-and-ready genuine cowboys, people who just eked out a living in the West, ranging all the way to East Coast dandies who were just swanned in. One of the dandies, however, managed to shock the cowboys when he was given an untameable horse as a joke. It's like, oh, watch this dandy, look at him fall off his horse. They didn't

realise that this dandy from the East was actually one of the best steeplechase riders in the entire country. So there was lots of japes, lots of bonding going on. Although they came from very different parts of the country, soon they had developed into a company of men who respected each other. And they developed many nicknames, but the one that stuck was the Rough Riders. Oh, like Suicide Squad or... Yeah, I mean, they'd they'd all like get out knives and carve it into like trees and stuff wherever they were and yeah it was all very cool um yeah they

drank they marched they trained together they considered roosevelt a decent enough leader i'm thinking top gun montage here oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Topless on horses. Yes. Slap each other on the rear end. Very, very homoerotic volleyball. Yeah. Yeah, that's what was going on every day. Yeah, some were a bit surprised by Roosevelt. From everything they read, they were expecting this really rough, ready, burly man.

And here was this guy with shiny teeth and massive glasses. He keeps hunting butterflies. Yeah. But when they got to know him, they kind of realized where the reputation came from. It was his force of personality rather than his physical appearance that had gained this reputation. He got stuck in. He wasn't quite like the other officers. So yeah, he won some respect in training. Then after several weeks, they moved to Florida to get ready for the invasion of Cuba itself. Upon hearing the news that they were leaving, Roosevelt literally did a war dance in excitement. He had learned a war dance, and he literally did a war dance.

Ooh, that would be embarrassing. People were excited back then. Yeah, but I could just imagine the rest of the regiment just like, oh, Roosevelt, seriously. No, no, no. You get the feeling if literally anyone else was doing it, that would be the reaction. But it's like, he's just so eager all the time and obsessive.

It's hard not to be pulled along for the ride with him, is the feeling I got. Anyway, they head down to Florida. Roosevelt rode in the cramped train carriage with his men, giving his space in the officer's carriage to a sick soldier, which, again, that raised his stock with the men a bit. But once they arrived in Florida, it was chaos. The organisation just had not been put in place.

The regiment had nowhere to stay. They just were not expected. Wood and Roosevelt had to pay personally for the provisions for the men. Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of money, but don't forget, Roosevelt is rich, so he can't afford it. Maybe he's still got some loose change around here. Oh, here's $1,000. Yeah, exactly.

Anyway, another long wait met the men. The officers all stayed in a hotel, drinking whiskey, smoking cigars, waiting for the order. It was all very nice. Sounds brilliant. One of the officers sat on the porch one evening, drinking a whiskey and smoking a cigar, apparently just uttered the words, War is hell, and everyone else agreed.

Yeah, this wasn't the battle-y part of the war, for certain. But eventually the order did come. On June the 8th, 16,000 men left the shores of the United States. 300 horses and mules were also on board the ships. What should have taken three days took six to get to Cuba, however. The sea was rough. It was hard going. It was very, very cramped with that many men on board, as you can imagine.

And it was full of nervous horses. Ooh. Yeah. And a very excited Roosevelt, writing at the time, if we succeed, we will have scored the first great triumph on what will be a world movement, which is bold words for a war that is barely a blip and a footnote in most history books.

Certainly when the horses make a lot of movements as well. Poor choice of words. That's true. Anyway, they arrive on the shore of Cuba. Obviously, the main ships can't get to the beach and specialised landing vessels just weren't a thing at this time. So it's not like the beginning of Saving Private Ryan then? No, or indeed it's not like in our Roman series

where we have actually seen specialised landing craft landing in Crete. So anyway, the ships can't get to the beach so what they need to do is lower the ship's transport boats into the very rough sea and then paddle their way to the shore. Makes sense. Safe.

Yeah, it was a mess of a landing. It was not a calm sea. It was not easy to get to shore. There was a pier, but it was so high and the waves were so rough that you were literally going up and down metres. You had to wait till you were on the top of the crest of a wave and then jump for the pier. Wow.

Do you think that was on the risk assessment? It wasn't, no. Oh, dear. Yeah. Two men slipped doing this and were crushed to death between the boat and the pier. Yeah. That's not good. Those that weren't trying to get onto the pier were just going straight up to the beach,

but that has its own problems with a boat. A boat's getting stranded. And all the sand. As you can imagine, it was a very messy landing, but fortunately for everyone involved, the Spanish weren't on the beach fighting the landing. Thank goodness. Had they been, they probably would have been annihilated. Target practice.

Yeah. Once most of the men were ashore, it's time to start getting the horses on to the beach Oh no Yeah Bubble wrap them, throw them over the side and just hope they'll land It's not far off Roosevelt headed back to the ship

He was bringing two horses with him One each arm Well his first horse was sort of picked up and lowered almost like a crane into one of the boats yeah it broke before it could be secured

and the horse fell into the water and drowned yeah not good the second horse then remained suspended above the shifting boat for a very long time because they were scared of doing the same until Roosevelt started shouting at them to stop torturing the poor animal.

And eventually it was lowered. So yeah, after several frantic hours that had cost peoples and horses lives, they finally had taken the beach, the uncontested beach. Yeah, taken's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, it was a sloppy start, to say the least. Landing in Cuba were several regiments, most of them regular, full-time soldiers in the army. Roosevelt's Rough Riders were not regular, they were all volunteers. They were kind of put to the side.

They weren't part of the main invasion force. They were just the volunteers, almost seen as backup. So the next day after landing, it was time to go and scout for the enemy. The Rough Riders were chosen to go and take a Spanish-held path just to see what was going on. Where were the Spanish? The jungle was very dense, and they could not leave the trail without losing all visibility,

so they were forced to just sort of walk along in single file. And then suddenly, whizzes of bullets started to fly by them. They all jumped for cover, dived into the jungle, but because of how dense it was, it hindered them a lot. They had to literally hack away with it with their rifles, losing each other in the foliage. It took about an hour, but eventually they figured out where the fire was coming from. Roosevelt and his men managed to charge a ruined building that was sheltering some Spanish troops firing on them.

At the same time, a couple of other regiments joined them. One of these regiments that joined them was being led by a 61-year-old Civil War veteran, who, in the excitement, shouted, Come on, lads, we've got the damn Yankees on the run! Which must have gone down well. Just imagine these whole regiment just stopping and staring at him. Yeah. That's what you really want when you're in a war,

is to be being led by someone who's forgetting what war they're in and who the enemy is. It's not great. Anyway, after this brief skirmish, the Rough Riders camped for six days. The Confederate officer that I just mentioned became ill. So Wood was promoted to his position, and that meant Roosevelt was made colonel of the Rough Riders. So he is now leading the regiment.

And then soon after this, the only major battle of the entire war takes place, which is the Battle of San Juan. Now to imagine this battle, picture two hills, that is San Juan Hill and Kettle Hill. San Two Hill. Well Kettle Hill didn't have a name, or at least obviously it had a name, but the US troops didn't know what it was. And there was a sugar refinery on top of the hill that looked a't have a name, or at least, obviously, it had a name, but the US troops didn't know what it was. And there was a sugar refinery on top of the hill that looked a bit like a kettle, so they just called it Kettle Hill.

I'm thinking full-on fairy tale, like Mother Hubbard living in a teapot. I think that's what... Did Mother Hubbard live in a teapot? I'm confusing my fairy tales, aren't I? She lived in a goose or something. Who knows? Anyway... Or a boot.

A boot. Oh, yes. Yeah, maybe that's it. So there's a big boot and a kettle on top of Kettle Hill. Now, in front of these two hills is a river. Not like a big river. You can ford it easily enough. You can walk through it.

More stream. But there's a bit of water in the way. So anyway, what the United States had to do was cross the river and take the hills. Because the hills were howled by the Spanish. However, things did not go smoothly. The attack was howled up for various reasons.

Roosevelt and his men found themselves by the river in full view of the Spaniards being fired upon. They're at the bottom of Kettle Hill just being picked off by snipers, and they have very little cover. But the order to attack doesn't come through. They're just sitting there, being fired upon. For an entire hour, this happens. The US forces take what cover they can, but they're just being picked off one by one. They're taking heavy casualties. Morale starts to plummet.

Still, no order to attack. Roosevelt, very angry by this point, ordered one of his men to go back, find a general, any general at all, and get them to order the attack. We're sitting ducks here. The man ordered to go back, jumped to his feet to run,

but then a bullet whizzed through his head, and he fell to the floor dead. That's not ideal. No. Meanwhile, a first lieutenant from the 10th Cavalry had managed to get back. Remember, the Rough Riders are a volunteer regiment, but there are plenty of regular regiments with full-time soldiers as well. They're also lining up at the base of these hills. Now, the 10th Cavalry Regiment were also known as the Buffalo Soldiers. This is a regiment made up entirely of African-American soldiers. What's the grimace for? There's... I don't know if you've ever watched it. Did you ever see the South Park film? Operation Human Shield? Yeah. Get into that.

watch it. Did you ever see the South Park film? Operation Human Shield? Yeah. Get into that. Oh. The Buffalo Soldiers first appeared in the Civil War. Remember Lincoln finally forced it through that black men could join the army. Yeah. Since then the African-American regiments had been largely used to fight Native American unrest in the West And in some true life Operation Human Shield kind of move, the 10th Cavalry had been out on the front line longer than any other regiment. They were up in the front, in the centre of the two hills. Right. Yeah. And just like Roosevelt's Rough Riders, they were also taking heavy casualties, as you can imagine. Now, a lieutenant from this regiment, a man named Ord, managed to get to the Brigadier General Hawkins with a message from his captain. I'll quote him here.

General, if you order a charge, I will lead it. Just like Roosevelt, they wanted the order to go. Yeah. Hawkins, however, was very unsure whether a full frontal charge was a good idea. For various reasons that we don't have time to go into, Hawkins was waiting on the outcome of some other events before making up his mind what to do, so he was holding put. Ord, however, was growing impatient. His men were dying out there. So he said again to Hawkins, if you do not wish to order a charge general, I should like to volunteer.

May I volunteer? We can't stay here, can we? There was another pause, and Hawkins replied, I would not ask any man to volunteer. Oh no. Ord at that point says, well, if you do not forbid it, I will start. There was another pause, and then Hawkins again said, I will not ask for volunteers. I will not give permission, and I will not refuse it. God bless you, and good luck.

Yeah, so Hawkins knew that this was a risky move, didn't want to take the responsibility, but fair enough, if you guys are going to go, then I'm going to wash my hands from it, essentially. We now get a conflicting story. What we know

for complete 100% certainty is that the United States forces charge the hills and take them. Short version of that. Roosevelt, and then the propaganda machine around him in later life, maintained that he charged up Kettle Hill with some support from the regular troops, but it was mainly the Rough Riders that took the hill. It was him who won that hill. This story gained so much traction that many in later years would believe that Roosevelt and the Rough Riders single-handedly won the entire battle. The truth obviously is far more murky than this, and, I mean, that simply isn't true. The Rough Riders obviously were a part of the battle, a significant part of the battle,

but just one aspect of the battle. It was Ord and the Buffalo Soldiers who charged first. Most of the 10th Cavalry started up San Juan Hill, the major hill, but a significant group of the 10th also took on Kettle Hill. Upon seeing the Black Regiment advancing, Roosevelt, who was very eager to get going himself, set off as well. Excellent, if they're going, we're going to go. Now he's still on his horse at this time, most people are just lying in the grass trying to avoid the bullets. He's riding up and down on his horse shouting at people to get moving.

he's riding up and down on his horse shouting at people to get moving this is where we get the start one man lying prone on the floor was being shouted at by roosevelt to move when a bullet shot through the entire length of his body that's now the second person who roosevelt was talking to to be shot whilst roosevelt's talking to them he's very bad luck isn't he well very lucky if you in fact he's on a horse and he's not been hit yet Well, he's lucky, not for the people Anyway, the charge starts It's not a full-on running charge When I say charge, it was more a painful crawl up the hill

that took a long time The regulars from both the Buffalo Soldiers and also a white regiment, the 3rd were soon intermingled with the Rough Riders. The idea of there being clear regiments by this point kind of falls apart, as men are just desperately trying to get up the hill without being shot. Roosevelt realises the horse is hindering him.

I mean, he's the only one on a horse by this point, so he jumps off and continues on foot. Despite what Roosevelt would later claim, eyewitness reports in the battle saw that it was actually the 10th who got up the hill first and raised the unit's colours. Although you do get the impression that at the time no one really cared. Bullets were

everywhere. People were just desperately trying to stay alive. The arguments start up at a later time once the battles died down. At the time it was simply a US victory. Kettle Hill was taken. Once the hill was taken, the Rough Riders, the 10th and the 3rd, turned to

San Juan Hill, the bigger of the hills. That was still being taken by various regiments, led by Aud and the 10th. According to Roosevelt, he shouted that they all needed to help their fellow soldiers on the other hill and headed off at a run. So he charges and he runs,

only to realise about a hundred yards later that he's all on his own. It's like a big train sketch, isn't it? Yes, he's definitely the big train sketch of screaming, who's with me? And then just charging on your own as your entire regiment just watches you run into the distance.

Yeah, Roosevelt stopped, realized he was on his own apart from a couple of men, turned around, furiously saw that the rest of his men were still back on the hill. So he ran back and started shouting at them. His men were very apologetic. Apparently they'd not heard him. There's a lot of noise going on, sir. I don't know if you've noticed. Maybe you shouldn't just scream

who's with me and run. And dreadful tinnitus, sir, as well. Yeah. So anyway, he manages to rally the men and they charge off again. According to Roosevelt, it's here that he jumped into a Spanish trench. It was full of dead men and a couple of enemy soldiers. Roosevelt emptied his revolver into their direction, killing one of the soldiers. However, once again, this has been disputed. Other witnesses who were in the battle claim that there were no trenches in this area whatsoever. In fact, I quote one of them here. These trenches then, being imaginary, it is fair to argue that they were filled with imaginary dead Spaniards.

Yeah, so there is debate on whether Roosevelt actually managed to kill someone with his revolver. There's no way we'll ever be able to tell. This could just be an embellished war story. Either way, however, the United States took the hills. Over 200 men had been killed and over a thousand injured. It was a hard-won battle. However, as we've seen, it was the only major battle of the entire war with Spain. Soon after this, the navy managed to destroy the Spanish fleet as it broke for cover and attempted to flee. Roosevelt described the day later as, I quote, the greatest day in my life which I'm sure Edith was pleased to hear about

sitting there with his children and uh sitting with the family wedding photos yeah yeah there was a photo taken which is nice uh this photo is uh in fact I'll show you the photo so there you go here's a photo there's Roosevelt in the the middle with his glasses and his hat. And there's all the Rough Riders around him, which is great. This is the photo that is used almost everywhere. Whenever anyone talks about the Rough Riders, it's a very famous photo. Just type in Rough Riders into Google. This is the one that will come up.

Do you want to see the actual photo before it was cropped? Oh, dear. Yeah. As you can see, this is the actual original photo where you can just about see some of the members of the 10th Cavalry on the right and on the left. Oh, they are right on the edge. And they're all looking towards Roosevelt as well.

As you can see, this better sums up who was actually involved in the taking of Kettle Hill. But the black soldiers are just usually cropped out of history. So there you go. That happened. Anyway, then the elation of winning the battle soon wears off. The men are now stuck in Cuba. Although it looks like the war's going to end very soon and they're not going to be needed for any more fighting. They soon have some visitors.

Who do you think would be visiting the troops on Cuba? Not the president, was it? No. It was typhoid, malaria, and even some yellow fever. Oh. Oh, yes. It soon started to spread throughout the men who were just in these very makeshift camps. Colonel Roosevelt soon endeared himself to the men even more by mocking him with the jobs such as clearing out the latrines. By this point, he was popular, very popular within the Rough Riders.

Meanwhile, the press back home were already turning him into the war's hero. Having become a popular, somewhat divisive national figure, his leading the Rough Riders to victory was already taking hold in the public's imagination. There were calls for him to return home immediately and run for New York governor. Something he refused to do. I mean, the war wasn't officially over yet and he wasn't going to walk out on his men.

Now, soon enough, the number of sick men in Cuba were over 4,000. Roosevelt calculated that less than half of the rough riders were fit for duty. This was serious. This was going to kill far more many men than died in the actual war. However, those in Washington would not order the men to come home if there was a chance that they'd be bringing yellow fever with them. Yellow fever's dangerous. So I tell you what, just stay on Cuba.

Let it run its course, and then you guys can come back when you're all feeling a bit better. As you can imagine, the men on Cuba were not happy at all. This includes the officers as well. Everyone from the lowest soldier to the chief officer on the island desperately wanted to return home, but they needed a figurehead to lead the charge home. None of the career officers really wanted to stick their heads out, though,

because they could lose their jobs if they start kicking up a fuss, and this is their career. However, who's this non-career officer with us who sparked the public imagination? The really loud one. Yeah, maybe he could lead the charge here. So a letter from Roosevelt to the commanding officer on Cuba was leaked to the press. I'll quote a bit here. To keep us here in the opinion of every officer commanding a division or a brigade will simply involve the destruction of thousands. Then a letter from that commanding officer on the island

was also leaked to the press, stating something in a similar way. President McKinley and the War Department were not impressed by this move. They really did not want the men coming home yet, but public mood was very much with the soldiers, so they found they had no choice. The order was given, and Roosevelt gets the credit for bringing the men home. He's got a lot of credit so far, hasn't he? Oh, he was getting a lot of credit. So much so, he was starting to annoy some of the other men who had fought in the war, who were now being rapidly forgotten.

When, later, Roosevelt wrote and published his account of the experiences of the Rough Riders in the war, the joke went round that the publishers had to get in an extra supply of the letter Iiders in the war. The joke went round that the publishers had to get in an extra supply of the letter I before publishing it, which is a nice joke. Yeah. When the troops did come home,

they were kept in a camp just for safety. Quarantine. Yeah. The president came to visit them, however. Good photo op. Met with Roosevelt personally, he did, which everyone noticed.

Again, it's Roosevelt being singled out for single-handedly winning the war. Incidentally, Lieutenant Ord, you remember he was the lieutenant in charge of the 10th Cavalry at the time, Ord himself was white, but he was in charge of the Buffalo Soldiers. He and the Buffalo Soldiers took the hill, the major hill of the battle. He was the first one up there. He took the hill.

He died in the attack. A bullet ripped through his neck and he died. There was a suggestion that he should get a medal posthumously for his actions, but the War Department at the time decided, no, I don't think he should be given a medal. The excuse given was that Ord was fighting for the 10th, but he was actually officially a part of the 6th. But they'd kind of done a bit of a transfer, and it just made it a bit murky, didn't it? So we can't possibly give out a medal to the guy

who led the black soldiers. Absolute bull. Yeah, so that happened as well. However, another person not to get a medal was actually Roosevelt. Because he was getting all the credit, he in fact annoyed quite a few people in the War Department. People who had spent a lot of time and effort trying to get this war together just for Roosevelt to sweep in and take all the credit.

So because of this, certain strings were pulled and the suggested Medal of Honor was taken from him. He was not given a medal. Do we know who got it? It doesn't quite work like that. It's not like, oh, Roosevelt's not got it, so we've got to give it to someone else. The runner-up. Okay, fair enough. Not like a sports day no uh but there's an addendum to this however uh because actually roosevelt does get a medal of honor for his actions in cuba uh he got it in 2001 oh yes uh bill clinton posthumously awarded him the Medal of Honor for the taking of Kettle Hill.

Wouldn't that have been George W. in 2001? It was just before Bill Clinton left. It was one of his last acts. Yeah, it was January 2001, if I remember correctly. You'll be shocked to learn that Ord nor the 10th Cavalry were even mentioned in the giving of this Medal of Honor in 2001. Interestingly, though, and I know I'm going down a bit of a rabbit hole here, but Bill Clinton actually gave out two Medal of Honours that day. He gave one to Roosevelt, and he gave one to Andrew Smith. Andrew Smith was a black Civil War soldier.

In fact, I'm going to quote Bill Clinton here. In the case of a black soldier in the long-ago Civil War, it sometimes takes a long time to get things right. But Theodore Roosevelt reminded us that the only way that we do that is by constantly focusing on the future. So in order to right a wrong that a black soldier didn't get a Medal of Honor during the Civil War, he just overlooked an entire regiment. So there you go. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked, but that was a bit of a rabbit hole I went through. Anyway, it was obvious to all post-war that Roosevelt was going places.

Like I said, many in the Republican Party wanted to use his popularity to gain the next governor's seat in New York. However, Roosevelt was being talked to by an independent group. Why don't you run as an independent? You don't need to stay with the Republicans. Now, as we've seen, Roosevelt was not the most popular man in his party. With the reformers or the establishment, he'd managed to annoy both factions in his time, so he was tempted to jump ship. But after thinking it over he decided to stay with the party, just like when he refused jump from the party when they nominated Blaine.

Roosevelt lost some respect from the reformers once more, but he was determined to keep his career on track. There was nowhere for an independent governor to go once his term was up, but if he stays in the party then this could be a step on his career. The race for governorship was not a shoo-in. I mean, Roosevelt's very popular, but the Democrat candidate was also very well liked, and the Republicans did not have the best reputation in New York at this time. Roosevelt, however, knew he had one issue he could stand out in and that was expansionism yeah uh he opened his campaign surrounded by fellow rough riders and talked about the duties that the u.s now had as a world player after the american spanish war america were now a world power according to

roosevelt and that came with responsibilities now this angered the current Republican boss in New York. This is a man named Thomas Platt. He was the current party boss from New York, a Conkling-type person. Platt, very anti-expansionist, and was convinced that this stance would actually harm the party. Platt, however, probably was underestimating the power of a bit of jingoism in a campaign, because after the campaign, Roosevelt won the election by 1% of the vote. So it was close, but he managed to win. Platt conceded afterwards that only Roosevelt could have defeated the Democrats at this time.

He still wasn't happy with Roosevelt being the man to get the post, but at least it was a Republican who got it. So as Roosevelt took up the governorship, a collision between the party boss and the wild cannon Roosevelt was set. It was widely known at the time that the two did not see eye to eye, but each needed each other politically. Platt needed Roosevelt's popularity, Roosevelt needed Platt's political power. It's a bit like Trump and Pence, isn't it? Does Trump need Pence for anything? Does anyone need Pence for

anything? Nah, fair play. Carry on. No, I do know what you mean. I think that was the theory to begin with is that Trump would be able to rely on Pence's political knowledge to get things done, but Trump didn't go that way. He decided he didn't need political knowledge to get things done, but Trump didn't go that way.

He decided he didn't need political knowledge. No. Why burden yourselves with such things? Exactly. Anyway, a cartoon was drawn in a magazine at the time of the two grinning and shaking hands with massive knives behind their backs. In fact, I'll show that one to you. Just Google Platt-Roosevelt cartoon, and it comes up.

And, yeah, the two happily shaking hands, grinning with huge... I mean, they're not knives, are they? They're swords. They're sabres, yeah. Yeah, ready to really go at one another. I love that Roosevelt's in an army uniform. Oh, yeah, he's Colonel Roosevelt. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, soon enough, sure enough, the two fell out. Roosevelt refused to appoint the correct men to various posts. However, a compromise was soon created. Roosevelt would create a short list for jobs, and then Platt would choose from that list. Roosevelt continued his work as governor. He worked on pay rises for teachers, which is nice.

Oh, I like him. Yeah. He banned the local option to segregate schools. Oh. Roosevelt saw no reason why, if his children happily sat in school with black children, why couldn't everyone else?

That was his stance. So he managed to block that. So that's nice. Yeah, it is. Essentially, he was doing all right. He was very popular with the people, less so in his own party, but he was getting stuff done. And then he decided to declare his support for the idea of utility companies paying taxes, which they didn't do at this point.

Platt was outraged by this move. These companies were paying good money to the Republican Party to stop them from having to pay taxes, and Roosevelt should really know better. Yeah. I mean, look at all this bribe money. I mean, contributions. I mean, we can't just ignore these contributions, Roosevelt. But I mean, at least that doesn't happen now. Oh yeah, no, not at all. Platt was able to hold up the bill in committee stage, and it looked like it wouldn't be passed due to time running out. However, as governor, Roosevelt had the power to send a note to the Assembly that ordered the bill to come out of committee stage and be voted on immediately. Yeah, so he did. And to his utter disbelief, the Speaker, working for Platt, read the note and then just tore it up without reading it. Oh yes, I mean, that's just not on.

It was the next day Roosevelt found out about this, and it was the final day of the session. So Roosevelt, very angry, wrote another letter stating that if this note was torn up, he would come down there personally and read one out himself. The bill was forced to a vote,

and Roosevelt won. The companies had to start paying tax. So there you go, that's another political victory for him. With all this infighting in his own party, people started talking about the next election, as in national election. Now, McKinley was obviously going to run again. His first term was coming to an end. But there were some who wanted Roosevelt to replace him.

Roosevelt's by far the most popular Republican in the country. He should be president. Now, this was never a serious contention at the time. McKinley had a good, solid hold on power. There was no reason to get rid of him. But just know that his name was out there with some people. Roosevelt himself was toying with the idea of running for governor again. And it was at this point the vice president died. Almost immediately Roosevelt's name was being

bandied about to take the position. He should be vice president. Have you suddenly remembered something? Yeah he's vice president and then McKinley obviously had a bit of a whoopsie. See it's coming back to you. Yeah well Roosevelt didn't want the job as Vice President. He knew that the Vice Presidency was a dead-end job. It would also be a pay cut. You get more as Governor for New York than you do for Vice President. Well, you certainly did back then.

I'm not sure about now. However, Platt was one of the most powerful Republicans in the country. He was the party boss. And he said to a friend at the time, and I'll quote, I want to get rid of the bastard. I don't want him raising hell in my state any longer. I want to bury him. I mean, there's no won't someone rid me of this troubling priest ambiguity here, is there? He's a b****. Yeah. And so a push began from his opponents within his own party for

him to become the vice president against his own wishes so it's politically motivated that'll get him out of our hair yeah yeah exactly wonderful as i'm sure you have seen and many people have seen in real life what do you do with the problematic person you work with? We can't fire them. Let's promote them out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Roosevelt's not happy about this, so he headed off to Washington to make it very clear to the president he did not want the job. Now, the Secretary of State was a man

named Hayes at the time, no relation to our friend Hayes. Hayes joyfully wrote to a friend about Roosevelt's visit, and I'll quote, It has been more fun than a goat, which is an amazing statement. I'm going to start using that one. So what fun do you have with a goat? It makes me want to look into Hayes's life to find out what fun he was having, but I'll continue the quote. In fact, I'm just going to start the whole quote again from the start, so I get to say that line again.

In fact, I'll even add a bit more. So he wrote to his friend, Teddy has been here, have you heard? It was more fun than a goat. He came down with a sombre resolution thrown on his strenuous brow to let McKinley and Hannah know once and for all that he would not be vice president. And he found to his stupefaction that nobody in Washington had ever dreamed of such a thing.

So he stormed to the Capitol demanding that he not be considered for vice president. And McKinley and Hanna just went, yeah, obviously. We don't want you. Then he went, but I want to be. Yeah, it's... Roosevelt was obviously embarrassed. There was debate on how much he was being truthful when he kept saying he didn't want the job.

It would appear that he didn't. It's understandable why he wouldn't want the job, because vice-presidency was the point. But yeah, he was definitely embarrassed at this point. However, Hayes, McKinley and Hanna had obviously underestimated Platt's power. Because come the convention, there was strong support for Roosevelt to become vice president. Now, Platt had injured himself recently and he was working from a bed in a hotel room. When Roosevelt stormed in and declared,

I can serve better as a governor than a vice president. Platt apparently simply pointed at another man who was standing in the room and told Roosevelt that his successor was standing right there. It had already been organized. Because democracy. Democracy. Yeah. After some arguing, Roosevelt finally accepted that

if he was going to be nominated for vice president, he would accept the role. But if he wasn't nominated, Platt would have to accept him being governor for another term. So that compromise was agreed on. But Platt kind of smiled to himself afterwards, probably, because he'd done his homework. Support for Roosevelt was rising,

and Platt was pushing everything he had to make sure that people voted for Roosevelt. Much to Hannah's disgust. Do you remember who Hannah is? I've mentioned him a couple of times now. Hannah was... Not the makers of Looney Tunes, Hannah and Barbara. No, no.

Mark Hannah was a driving force behind McKinley's election. He was the campaign manager. He was McKinley's friend. You probably did mention him. Yeah, I mentioned him in the episode, but I don't understand why you'd forget him. But yeah, McKinley's right-hand man, essentially. Hanna was not happy that Roosevelt was being considered and said to one person who told Hannah that he was going to vote for Roosevelt, quote, Nice. Hannah's not keen.

Anyway, a political fight in the back rooms over cigars and whiskey then take place between Platt and Hannah. Both of them have a lot of power in the party, both of them attempting to draw support either away or to Roosevelt, who himself was busy telling anyone he could come across not to vote for him. Please don't vote for me.

Whatever you do. Anyway, Platt's dealings went out in the end, however. Come the vote, Roosevelt was nominated to run for Vice President. Platt upon hearing the result said, and I'll quote here, I'm glad we had it our way. The people, I mean, had their way. That's the most evil. The people. I know, he's genuinely one of the most evil villain quotes we have come across. That is fantastic.

It is a great quote. Anyway, Hannah wrote to his friend, the president, telling McKinley, and I quote, your duty to the country is to live for the next four years. Hannah really did not like Roosevelt. But as we've seen, McKinley may have succeeded in being re-elected, making Roosevelt the vice president, but he did not succeed in living much longer. No, he failed that test. He really did. In the meantime, however, Roosevelt was settling into his new role. The demands of the job were not high,

and he'd convinced everyone around him, and perhaps even himself, that he'd always wanted the job anyway. I'll quote, I am rather ashamed to say that i'm enjoying the perfect ease of my life for present here's a question so thinking about vice president now uh mr pence who we all love and admire he doesn't appear to do that much other than he's got he's got a name because you saw trump pence and you know he and he's known as being quite a highly Christian when it suits him. But what does he do other than being known?

As vice president, you preside over the Senate. And if the Senate come to a deadlock, if there's a vote and the votes are split completely evenly, the vice president gets the deciding vote that is literally it the vice president has no other duties no other official duties depending on who it is depends on how much they also do see wouldn't it make more sense to have sort of like someone on the the one at one of the judges to to do that and just basically get rid of the vice president post because it seems pointless you need a vice president just in case the president dies have another election ah but you know it's more tricky i guess you need continual rule though

it's elections take a while to set up how the leader of the senate yeah we could do i'm sure they had this exact discussion uh back when they were setting up the constitution uh but yeah no that's the role essentially was uh a way of bridging the executive branch and the uh the congress uh a way of mouthing them together slightly i think they should change the title thanks i think vice president's very misleading yeah deputy president you could you could go that way tell you what jam, your homework can be before the next episode. You can go away and rewrite the constitution

so the vice president's role is better defined and either is got rid of or has something to do. I'll do that. Good. I'll read out in full in the next episode. Good. All 12 lines. I mean, Roosevelt himself

spent only four days presiding over the Senate, because it then went out of session, so he had nothing to do after that. He did a bit of touring, speaking on behalf of the President. If you remember, McKinley was due to go on a massive tour around the country,

but his wife got ill, so they postponed it. But they did go to Buffalo, which was meant to be the end. And it was. Oh, it really was, yeah. Roosevelt, by this point, was on holiday, or vacation, I should say, in Vermont, when the phone rang. The president...

Ding-a-ling-a-ling. ...had been shot in Buffalo. I didn't know it had a Buffalo. Sounds painful. Yeah, Roosevelt rushed to Buffalo and was very relieved when he got there that McKinley was not dead. In fact, he already seemed to be recovering. It's quite a shock, quite a scare, but it's fine.

He stuck around for about four days feeling awkward. I mean, McKinley was surrounded by loved ones and people he worked closely with. None of them particularly knew Roosevelt or particularly liked Roosevelt, so he felt a bit like a sore thumb. But after four days, it was decided Roosevelt doesn't need to be here anymore.

So he was told politely, you can go now. You've done your duty as vice president. So he headed back towards his family and met them in the mountains in northern New York state. Roosevelt then spent the 13th of September striding up and down Mount Marcy, exclaiming over and over again, beautiful country,

in a loud, booming voice. I hope he's wearing lederhosen.'s oh he's definitely wearing late eyes and um it was growing dark and he and his friends were heading down the mountain when they stopped to eat apparently roosevelt was just about to bite down into a sandwich when they spotted a man running towards them full pout i was hoping it'd be a phone again what phone running towards them, full pout. I was hoping it would be a phone again. What, a phone running towards them? No, no, a phone ringing. Oh, right, just in the woods. Yeah. On a tree, just on a tree. It's like, hello!

A red phone, emergency phone. No, they hadn't thought that far ahead. The messenger informed them that the president's condition had suddenly worsened and he might die at any point. Roosevelt rushed down the mountain, met with his wife, Edith, telling her that he would not go to Buffalo unless it was certain

he was needed. I'll quote him I will not stand beside these people who are suffering and anxious. I am going to wait here. He obviously felt really uncomfortable last time and just didn't want to go back unless he was really needed. But then after a phone call,

it became clear he was needed. I mean, seriously, he's going to die. You need to get here. Yeah, he's going green, sir. Please hurry. Yeah. So Roosevelt rushed off to Buffalo for a second time. He did not make it in time. McKinley was dead before he arrived. Moving quickly, an aide was then sent to a library in the city to go and look at what they'd done after Garfield had been shot. It's like, how had Arthur been sworn in? What exactly do we do here?

So they figured it out, pieced together some newspaper articles, which I love. You would have thought, considering McKinley had been shot several days before, they would have thought this through by now. But obviously not. Anyway, a small private ceremony took place. At the age of 42, Roosevelt was the youngest ever president.

Wow. Roosevelt settled into being president with what some considered unseemly speed, shall we say. In fact, I'll quote him, it is a dreadful thing to come into the presidency this way, but it'd be a far worse thing to be morbid about it. Well, it's true. It's a good way of looking at it. Yeah, exactly. Rather than being all kind of, oh, it's about, you know,

yeah, he's dead, yeah, I know that, but in your office, wait. Time to move on, he yeah that loudly joined the funeral wife sitting next to him yeah making his wife now with this uh determination to move on uh the whirlwind of the teddy roosevelt administration started um it's not so much that any huge events take place during Roosevelt's rule. Administration, rather than rule, I should say. Wrong podcast. But it's more that Roosevelt attacked being the president

in the same way that he'd done everything in his life. Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm and obsession. He was not afraid to uproot tradition and to do things differently if he thought that things were not getting done. To begin with, he brought the press with him. Now, if you remember from last episode, ever since his days as a civil service commissioner, he had used the press as a weapon to use against others and to support himself. He was definitely the first president to fully understand how to do this now the big

change he made early on was to invite the press into the white house up until this point the press huddled outside trying to grab interviews as people went in and out the mansion one day it was raining and cold and roosevelt looked outside a bunch of huddled reporters and felt sorry for them so he soon found a room for them to stay inside. It's like, you're always here. You might as well have a room inside the White House. Ah. Yeah.

So there you go. The press corps is essentially created at this point. And since the press were so handily there, just another room in the building, might as well use them. And he told them everything. Now, only some things he told them were on the record. And there was a strict adherence to this. If anyone broke this trust, they were thrown out of the White House and put on a blacklist. Essentially, if you annoyed

Roosevelt, you would not work as a reporter again, because people would shut you out and just not talk to you so he would tell you anything but you could only write what he wanted you to write that's that's in in an era of free speech and free reporting that's quite almost uncomfortable if he wasn't such a happy cheerful person you know if you know if trump did that that'd be very uncomfortable you see obama did that i thought obama did do that i'd say every president since has done this um the on the record off a record getting reporters on your side but making sure they only report what you want them to report it's the job of the journalist to then go outside and do some actual investigation themselves uh i genuinely don't think Trump understands the difference between on the record and off the record.

I don't think his brain understands that distinction. He can't filter between the two. He has no off the record. He just blurts it all out, doesn't he? That's true. But yeah, so on the record, Roosevelt would give statements regularly to the press. Off the record, however, he often told the press how he really thought about the things he was talking about,

how others thought about what he was talking about, and where perhaps they could go to get more information on certain stories. He basically used the press to bolster what he wanted to happen. He knew how to work the press well. The other major change early on is that Roosevelt believed that the executive branch was the most important branch of government, which seems almost a given nowadays because that is so rooted into modern US politics.

But it shouldn't be because the Senate and the House should balance. And the judiciary, don the Senate and the House should balance. And the judiciary, don't forget. Yeah, of course. All three are meant to, but it's just not how it's seen now. During Roosevelt's time, or rather before Roosevelt's time, post-Civil War, the executive branch has slowly lost prestige and power. Congress had become the more powerful, the more respected branch.

As we've seen seen we've gone through quite a few presidents recently that just are fairly sort of pushed to one side no one really cares about them yeah uh roosevelt didn't think this is how it should be uh and his sheer force of personality uh managed to bring back the idea of the executive branch being important once more he wasn't just there to rubber stamp Congress. He was there to do things himself. Is this a moment that continues? It fluctuates, as we will see, but Roosevelt is often seen as the first modern president. So yeah, it's a beginning of that idea. A third change that happened relatively early on,

far more concrete this one, quite literally. Through executive order, he officially named the executive mansion the White House. So there you go, it's now officially the White House. Then started to rebuild it. It was, as many people realised and had realised for a while, a complete and utter mess. It was old, it was falling apart

some idiot had thought it was a good idea to put up all these tiffany glass panels all over the place um you can't have a supporting beam of glass damn it yeah i i did a little bit of rough maths and figured this would be a bit like george w Bush entering the White House and the decor of the White House looking like it was from 1979 still. It would have looked very dated. What Arthur thought looked very, very fancy and modern, I think by this point was considered just to look very drab and neff. When the butler's around walking around in flares, that's always a bad sign. Yeah, I mean, in my head, it's just brown wallpaper

and those big sort of sweeping patterns you always got in the 70s. Orange. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Is this where the big renovation happens? I know something happened at some point. There's a photograph of the warehouse gutted. It's not that one.

That's a different renovation, but it's still a very extensive one. It's almost as severe as that one because the entire interior was redone that's a different renovation uh but it's still a very extensive one it's it's about it's almost as severe as that one uh because the entire interior was redone someone had an idea maybe just maybe we should try and make the interior get this bear with me match the exterior you know how we got like this big classical mansion maybe the inside should look vaguely like that instead of just this weird hall of mirrors and glass panels that we've got this big classical mansion? Maybe the inside should look vaguely like that instead of just this weird hall of mirrors and glass panels that we've got going on.

Imagine Reza working out of a room going, I just bumped into that bloody glass again. Now, far more impactfully than this, renovation on the inside of the White House, after several failed attempts from several administrations in the past, funds were finally found to build a wing on the west side of the building. What are they going to call it?

This wing on the west side? I'm not sure. The committee's still out on that one. It's a low-sitting wing. It would be where all the official stuff happened. That would be nice, wouldn't it? The main building would hold the family and the functions and stuff,

but when the president's doing his day-to-day job, pop to the West Wing. So there you go. No Oval Office yet, though. That's not been built. This is the first version of the West Wing. So don't picture the Oval Office just yet. Because in my head, I still don't know what the White House is like.

So in my head, the Oval Office is the glassy bit at the front, but that is obviously not. it's on the west side and we will get into this more when it actually comes uh yeah when it's actually built but the oval office was modeled on the idea of that round bit on the front that you're thinking of because that was the old office of the president uh that's why you've got an oval thing but yeah no it's just an oval office on the ground floor in the west wing it's not like a high up bit in the middle which is understandable why you think that i'm sure many people do but yeah uh no uh roosevelt's got a a rectangular room in the west wing and he sat there uh the resolute desk is there by this point by the way that's the one that's there now yeah, that came in a few presidents ago.

I can't remember if I mentioned it. It might have been cut. Who knows? Anyway, the point is, the White House is starting to look a bit more like the White House we know today. So, as the days go on, it was noted just how much fun Roosevelt seemed to be having. One person who met with him often said,

you go home and have to wring his personality out of your clothes another person uh who doubt with him at the time said every day or two he rattles the dry bones of precedent and causes sedate senators and heads of departments to look over their spectacles in consternation, which is a British level of damning. It wouldn't surprise me if they even let out a small turt. Another quote from someone who worked in the White House at the time. He strode triumphant about amongst us, talking and shaking hands, dictating and signing letters and laughing. Washington and the whole country were in mourning,

but his joy showed in every word and movement. He laughed at the rage of Boss Platt and the tragic disappointment of Mark Hanna, and he laughed with glee at the power and place that had come to him. Again, you've got manic laughter. Just an image of him standing in the middle of the White House as it's being rebuilt around him, just cackling.

So there you go. I mean, he's made it. Now, the first main area that Roosevelt looked into was the Sherman Antitrust Act. Oh! I was hoping this would come back. Don't worry, I'm going to talk very little about acts and tariffs today. In fact, there's nothing on tariffs, and this is the only time I mention an act. If you remember, the Sherman Antitrust Act was put into place to stop monopolies from taking over the market.

It never worked, no one actually paid any attention to it. It was there to make it look like they were trying to stop all the blatant corruption. Now, it wasn't that Roosevelt hated big businesses. He just didn't like them when they were obviously corrupt. However, in this day and age, they were all obviously corrupt. So Roosevelt wasn't going to go and start just attacking the big businesses because he hated big business. He just wanted them to sort their act out. Now one of his first moves was to look into Northern Securities. This was a giant holding company that owned most of the railways in the West and just happened to be owned by J.P. Morgan, as a lot did. Now Morgan was in the middle of a dinner with several friends when he was informed

that the president had just announced that Northern Securities was being looked into. Morgan was not happy in the slightest. I mean, didn't the president know how this worked? J.P. Morgan had known the kid's father. They'd sat on boards together. They were to put it bluntly in the same class as each other, and young Roosevelt should know better. The rules didn't apply to the likes of them. Now, just because Brian, you remember Brian from last episode yeah Brian no no I did a whole bit on Brian oh did you of course it was in McKinley's episode um well there we go then if you said two episodes ago I'd have gone yes of, of course. Oh, it says Brian, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Illinois. Illinois.

Lawyer. Nebraska. I don't know what it means, but that's what it says. Remember, he was the new leader of the Democrats. He was trying to force the Democrats into becoming an actual left-wing party, fighting for the workers' rights, rather than being a party for the planter class. Now, he had failed to be elected several times,

but that didn't mean that his movement had died. Many in the country were still very unhappy with the rank inequality in society. So Roosevelt's move against Morgan was very popular with the people. Roosevelt himself said, I quote, in no other country in the world was such power held by men who had gained these fortunes he was not happy with these robber bounds and not only was he going to look into the likes of jp morgan he also set up a bureau of corporations to make sure that monopolies stopped doing whatever they wanted so it's actually going to be a government department looking into this now now the house speaker at the time was very frustrated by this and said that fellow at the other end of the avenue wants everything from the birth of Christ to the death of the devil. Typical Roosevelt not making friends.

Yeah. J.P. Morgan, with Hannah in tow, arrived at the White House to discuss just what was going on here. Don't you know how this works? The robber baron and the president already did not see eye to eye. The robber baron and the president already did not see eye to eye. J.P. Morgan's business partner had said of the president that he was, I quote, a political adventurer who had never done anything but pose and draw a salary. Equally, Roosevelt had described the likes of J.P. Morgan as men who seek gain not by genuine work, but by gambling.

So, yeah, you can kind of see the point. Yeah. Both sides thought that the others were just making money from doing nothing, which they both kind of were. Well, yeah. Just in different ways. Anyway, Morgan told the president that if the president thought that he had done anything wrong, then you, and I quote Morgan here, you should send your man to see my man

and we can fix it up Roosevelt pointed out that he had no intention to fix anything up but to stop instead yeah now it took a couple of years going through the courts but in the end northern securities was indeed broken up by the government for being too big Roosevelt gained a reputation for going against the rich, which made him very popular in a lot of people's eyes, made a lot of very rich business owners very nervous about him. By this time, however, another problem was brewing. The Great Coal Strike of 1902 had kicked off.

Now, as we've seen with strikes during this time, tensions were running high. The country ran on coal, so a coal strike was bringing the country to its knees very quickly. Transport, schools, services were all shutting down all over the place. Now, the miners were

asking for better work conditions. They wanted crazy things like enough pay so they could actually eat and maybe some less chance of actual death every day at work would be nice like it's not a socialist country you know well the mine operators however felt they had the high ground well literally they're above the mine so yeah yeah exactly um but also uh all the major strikes up until this point had gotten to the point where anger and violence grew due to inaction from the

factory and mine owners so much so that the government were forced to step in and shut down the strikes with military force oh dear that's that's never a good thing it's not and uh but it happened enough now that the mine owners saw no reason to settle for anything they could just sit there take the hit but they would know that the government at some point would step in and close down the strike. So they saw no reason to settle. However, the leader of the strike at the time was a man named Mitchell, and he knew what the plan was from the other side. So he managed to get across to his strikers the need for non-violence. As soon as we go violent, we will lose this.

So no violence. They managed to keep the strike non-violent and the public support stayed with the miners, largely. It got to the point where people were chopping down telegraph poles for fuel. Yeah, it really was bringing the country to its knees, this. This was a serious crisis. Roosevelt, very frustrated, also not wanting to use force, felt he had to intervene, even though legally he had no grounds to do so.

State militias could be called up, but the president has no legal precedent to step in and solve Labour disputes. And wasn't a militia supposed to protect against the government as well? It's meant to be, to stop the government taking too much. That was the idea right at the start. Yeah, yeah. Just saying, just putting that out there. That's gone by now.

Anyway, so Roosevelt decides the best way to get involved would be to set up a voluntary meeting between Mitchell and the mine owners and he would arbitrate. So it was done. The mine owners were not happy with this meeting taking place, saying that they would not sit down with a criminal. But Roosevelt had a lot of power. Strings were pulled, and the meeting was put in place.

It didn't go too well, to say the least. Mitchell, according to Roosevelt, was the only gentleman in the room, including himself, because Roosevelt lost his temper The mine owners apparently were insufferably arrogant In fact, I'll quote Roosevelt here If it wasn't for the high office I hold I would have taken him by the seat of his breeches And the nape of his neck And chucked him out the window

Talking about one of the mine owners I guess they see themselves as sort of indestructible, though, this time, the mine owners. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're still... Touch me. Go on. Height of Gilded Age, Robert Barons. The president is seen as less than a business owner, very much so.

Roosevelt soon afterwards declared that he would indeed send troops to pennsylvania but not to attack the strikers his troops would take over the mines is that legal yeah that's very debatable what it is is uh a big shock to the system yeah yeah i mean there is a bizarre claim that some people have that the two main political parties have never shifted politically over the years it's an utterly ridiculous claim uh that can easily be disproved and here is one example although an example that's not usually given but here is a republican president threatening to nationalize coal i mean it's not quite that but essentially it is the government will step in and take over the business yeah well yeah with military force yeah exactly this didn't stem from a philosophy that

was about how he didn't think that businesses should be ran by the government um but uh in fact i'll just quote him here my action on labor should always be considered in connection with my action in regards of capital and both are reductable to my favorite formula a square deal for every man so his argument was no the government shouldn't be running the businesses but when the businesses are just taking the bleep then someone's got to step in and do something about it. To make it fair, to make it all square. Yeah, which is a very sort of grey area kind of argument to have, which doesn't work in many settings, but Roosevelt didn't care.

He just said it. He threatened to do it. Anyway... Almost Trumpian. Yes, no, it is very much so. I mean, there are huge differences between rizvan trump but morally but in this case you can see the idea of just no i don't care what's happened before i just want this to get done i don't care how it happens um anyway when this threat was uh sent out of the white house a message was very rapidly sent to, obviously, J.P. Morgan, who, surprise,

surprise, had his fingers in this pie also. J.P. Morgan decided that perhaps maybe times for talks was at hand. The miners eventually did win a pay rise and a reduction of work hours, which they were after, but they were denied the right to create a union. So they lost that. But they gained some. They gained more than what most strikes had achieved in recent times. I'll say it's a successful strike. Yeah. And it was the president who stepped in and made it happen. Just a chance that maybe things are starting to turn. Anyway, things then turned to international affairs for time reasons we're not going to go into the war in the philippines that's going on remember the philippine war

the one with the boat that turned up and oh no not quite that but yeah this is obviously if uh you remember america took the philippines off spain the ph went, hooray, we're independent now, and America went, no, you're not. And then there was a war. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to go into that in another episode, mainly for time reasons. Just know it's going on. Right. Just also know in practically every book or place I read, everyone mentions howvelt's two terms were completely peaceful with no wars like these books history books written in the 90s i mean this war is just so so overlooked so we're definitely going to look into it at some point but there's just no time i wonder how it's perceived in the philippines exactly this is things that i want to find out so we're definitely going to come back to this a future president is a bit more involved.

So we'll do it when we get to their episode. But yeah, just know that that's going on, or at least it was for the start of Roosevelt's term. More impactful in world history, though, is what's going on in Panama. Now, as with everything around Roosevelt, this is far too complex to go into fully. So this is a huge simplification I'm about to give you.

If you want more details, there is plenty out there. We could have done a whole series on just this. So to sum up, if you remember, in 1850, a treaty was signed between Britain and the United States. We both want a canal going through the Americas. Neither of us feel like we've got the money or the power to do it right now, but neither of us want the other to do it first. So why don't we all agree that no one will do anything for the time being? That is a direct quote from that treaty. However, things have moved on since then. We're about 50 years on, Britain had recently signed a bill with the United States

essentially saying, oh, fine, then go for it if you want to. Britain at this time in the early 1900s was starting to eye up Germany with suspicion and really didn't want to be falling out with the United States. Yeah, this is a time where it hadn't quite got to an arms race yet, but they were both kind of going,

just bigging themselves up a little bit. And also Africa was the big sticking point, scramble for Africa. Yeah, the politics of Britain and Germany and many other countries at this time are reverberating throughout the world. And this is one consequence. Britain didn't want to get caught up with America

arguing over the canal anymore. There was already some disputes with the border between Alaska and Canada. So you know what, America, you can have this one, is essentially what Britain said. So brilliant, thinks Roosevelt. Let's build that canal that we've been kind of skirting around for the last half a century. Let's build that canal that we've been kind of skirting around for the last half a century. Slight problem. The French had bought the rights to build the canal off Colombia. Ah.

Yeah. Now, Panama at this time is part of Colombia. Panama is not its own country. Right. The French company who had attempted to build the canal had completely failed to do so. I mean, there was equipment and it's kind of started some bits off, but essentially it's not even gone off the ground, but they have the rights to do it. So for the United States to go and build the canal, first of all, they had to buy the rights off the French.

That would cost $40 million. Or Pac-Man. Yeah, so that's going to cost a lot. However, it was decided, no, this canal really would be useful, especially since our war with Spain. Being able to move the fleets around through a canal would be hugely beneficial to us. It's worth it.

So Congress agreed the president could indeed buy the concession for 40 million if they could get Colombia to cede the territory that would be needed to the United States. Yeah. So meetings were set up with Colombia. Could we possibly buy or loan a strip of your country, please? Just a 10 mile strip throughout your whole country. I mean, any chance? It's very wide. It's only a canal. Exactly. Nice and thin. Colombia had indicated before that they'd be more than happy with a canal being built. I mean, after all, this canal will benefit all the Americas, not just the United States.

Thank of all the moolah from all the... Yeah, exactly. So it should be fine. Everyone was expecting the getting the land off Colombia bit to actually be the easy bit. But then it hit a snag. The offer of 10 million up front and then a quarter of a million every year for 100 years to rent land seemed like a good one. Everyone seemed fairly happy with that until right at the last minute, Colombia suddenly stalled. No, actually, we need to look into this

a bit more. We're not convinced that this can be done legally within our country. America realised what was going on here. The concession given to the French was due to run out in about a year's time. So Colombia figured, why not wait until that runs out? Then America won't pay the 40 million to France, they'll actually have to pay the 40 million to us. So we'll make a huge amount more money if we just postpone negotiations for a year which just can't make sense yeah i mean if i mean it's probably something i'm not considering here but as america fair enough we're giving the money out anyway might as well to you yeah that's not what america

thinks oh yeah from this point on it gets very shady uh a lot of things happen like i say we could dedicate a whole episode to this and not cover it in enough detail, so really summing this up. Certain revolutionary types who were looking for an independent Panama were suddenly found in Washington. Certain talks were had between certain revolutionary types and certain presidents. All above board, mind, this Val, uh, I mean, he knows some rebels, you say. First I've heard of it, old chap. Who could say what's going on there? Um, then this

Barilla fellow suddenly found himself a lot richer and able to purchase a lot of weapons. Uh, then it just so happened that some United States Marines and sailors just so happened that some united states marines and sailors just so happened to be in the area of panama uh maneuvers maneuvers that's what they're on yeah and oh dear there's a revolt in panama who would have guessed by this point colombia quickly contacted the united states fine fine we'll make the deal call off off the revolt. You're very obviously behind this revolt. We'll do it. Too late though. Roosevelt took their surrender as a sign of dishonesty. So I see you were just stalling for time, even though you said you couldn't do it legally. So Roosevelt would not negotiate with Colombia anymore. The revolt was remarkably quick. Within two weeks, an independent Panama made a deal with

the United States. A 10-mile strip through their new country was sold to the United States for all the money that was due to go to Colombia. Wow. So there you go. You've almost got to admire that in a way. Dodgy as hell. Oh, yes, it is. Smooth. Roosevelt always denied organising the revolt. He claimed he merely didn't stop it. But, I mean, again, we've already seen this before with Hawaii. The United States have discovered how to invade another country

but maintain the impression of innocence. Nothing to do with us. We're just keeping the peace. Yeah, don't know where I'm going with this. Yeah, exactly. So there you go. They've essentially invaded Colombia. Anyway, next foreign affair at the time was the war between Russia and Japan. I'm not going into this one in any detail, many for some reasons, but just know that Roosevelt was involved in the arbitration between the two countries that brought about the end of the war. Heard of that. Yeah, there was a...

I don't know anything about it, but I remember hearing of it. Essentially, Russia and Japan bumped into each other. Oh, hello! And started fighting. Ever since Japan had been forced to open up by America a few decades before,

Japan thought in for a penny, in for a pound, and started to actually expand. If we're not going to be isolationist, we might as well start expanding. The same time the Tsar of Russia was expanding east and the two bumped into each other, they started fighting. That is obviously in a ridiculously

simplified version of that but yeah that's essentially what's going on there um if you remember roosevelt was very concerned that japanese were actually planning to take hawaii and uh was uh ready to to fight back um but it's a great holiday destination well exactly uh but by this point actually he was a very pro-japan um because japan were now making the right noises they were no longer looking at hawaii they were looking somewhere else and uh he genuinely did do a fair amount to bring about the the end of this war negotiations between japan and russia took place in america uh roosevelt not in the meetings,

but hosting the meetings and trying to keep everyone happy. And they work. So much so that in 1906, Roosevelt was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for this effort. He is only one of four presidents who has won that prize, along with Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter,

and Barack Obama. So there you go. T ticking the win column there. Meanwhile, Roosevelt continued running the country. By this point, the West Wing was built and Roosevelt was holding his daily press conferences. He'd learned to maximise his time. He was a busy man, but the press was important. So two birds, one stone. Why not get shaved whilst I'm talking to the reporters?

Oh, brilliant. Yes, every morning, a man with a cutthroat razor was there shaving Roosevelt whilst he was chatting away with the press. Oh, can you imagine that now? I'd be amazing, wouldn't I? Absolutely amazing. Trump getting tanned in front of the press. That'd be fantastic.

Oh, you know what? I'd actually respect him a little bit more. Well, I say more. A little bit if he did that. Yeah. He should. He should definitely do that with the little goggles on. Yeah.

Just a woman spraying and... Yes. Yeah. do that with the little goggles on yeah just a woman spraying and yes yeah um roosevelt obviously a very animated speaker uh he'd get very excited uh apparently he quite often would suddenly jump up from his chair to articulate an answer whilst the razor was still being held against his throat according to one reporter, I quote here, it was more fun to see than a circus, which is just great. Anyway, the next election comes up.

It was no contest. His biggest threat came from inside his own party because Hannah really didn't like him. But Hannah was struggling to gain any traction because he was dead. He died recently. So there was really no one to oppose Roosevelt anymore. Roosevelt had even done some work to build bridges with J.P. Morgan and some other robber barons.

He invited them for dinner in the White House to reassure them that actually it's fine. I'm not going to go after all your money. Just calm down. It helped that the Democrats were a mess at this point. This huge push from Brian to change the Democrats from a party of the planter class to the party of the worker had failed in an absolute term. He had not become president.

But even though he had never become president, the party certainly changed and was now undergoing a civil war. In an attempt to make the party seem more stable, a very safe and sensible choice was put forth. A man named Parker, he was advertised as the safe and sane option against Roosevelt's bombastic nature. He sounds very British. He didn't stand a chance uh 56 to 38 of the vote to roosevelt uh electoral college was more brutal 336 to roosevelt 140 uh to parker it yeah roosevelt was very popular yeah no longer an accidental president i mean he'd won an election now roosevelt felt more secure in his job.

However, he soon found his power ebbing away because he announced right at the start of his second term that he would not run again. Now, remember, there was nothing in law at this point to say you can only have two terms. It is only tradition. And you could argue he hasn't had a full term yet as well. Exactly. So there were many people saying, brilliant,

this is the second of three terms or the first of two terms. But essentially, there's a lot of Roosevelt left. He's young, he's popular, he can just keep running. Roosevelt himself, however, felt that that way leads to tyranny. There needs to be a stepping down. It's what America wants. Washington style. Yeah, exactly. So he announced right at the start, this is it. leads to tyranny there needs to be a stepping down it's what washington style yeah exactly so he announced right at the start this is it i'll do this term and then i'll step down

but you you do lose a lot of investment as well um because i wonder if that's the thing like since you know the more modern presidents have been around since i don't know the mid 1900s you get your first first term is always very bombastic. Lots of things happen. But the second term is always a bit of a lull. It's a bit more, they're going, so it doesn't really matter. Exactly. You become a bit of a lame duck. It's harder to get things done.

And Roosevelt announcing this right at the start meant that people started to back away from him. He'll be gone soon, there's no point. So he kind of shoots himself in the foot slightly politically there. Anyway, the big businesses were still not trusting of him. And also the reformists were starting to get frustrated that he never went further than he did, because he very much followed this philosophy of a square deal,

which essentially meant whatever he thought was right at the time. He never really had a clear philosophy. Many in the party were still just annoyed with him, despite how popular he was. He attempted to push through various new measures at this time. Most of them were an attempt to centralise government and introduce a lot of regulations. Again, very different to modern-day Republicans. A lot of regulations. Again, very different to modern day Republicans.

A lot of these go nowhere, because it enters a Congress that has no interest in getting these things done. But he's there chipping away at it, trying to get more regulation, less corruption, essentially. Then in 1906, a group of around 20 men, apparently, went on a shooting rampage in Brownstown in Texas. A barman was killed and a police officer wounded, and the town immediately blamed the Buffalo soldiers who were camped nearby. This very quickly turns into a national story. To go into it in a

bit more detail, the day before this happened, a woman had been attacked in the town. Soon enough, word spread throughout the town that it was one of the black soldiers who was camped in the barracks nearby who had done it. Anticipating the obvious trouble that would happen, the soldiers were confined to their barracks. Then the next night, the night of the 13th, a barman was killed. The story soon went round that a group of around 20 black soldiers had come into the town and had just shot the place up. The white officers in the camp then pointed out that no, all the men were present all night in the barracks. It definitely wasn't the soldiers. Incidentally, these were the white officers in the camp. Yeah. Because you didn't get black officers.

Yeah. So, yeah, the officers said, no, it's definitely not our soldiers. But that just wasn't enough for the town. They were convinced now that the black soldiers nearby were terrorizing the town. Quickly enough, some evidence was found that proved that the soldiers had been responsible. was found that proved that the soldiers had been responsible. Some shell casings had been found that were used by soldiers' guns rather than civilian guns. So that proved without a doubt that it was the black soldiers. The county court got nowhere, I mean, because this was obviously a racist-induced setup that had no actual decent evidence. The trial went nowhere. But the town were outraged

and kept the pressure up. Something needed to be done about these soldiers. Now, by this time, obviously, that took a while. The story was national. It was causing quite a scandal. And Roosevelt decided to get involved and just sort it out nice and quickly. Do you want to guess what he does? Does he arrest all the... He disbands the army or something? He just gets rid of them? Yeah, who's them? The black people. Yeah, how many? All of them. Yeah. Yeah, 167

men of the regiment were dishonourably discharged for, and I quote, their conspiracy of silence. Because when they were asked who was the person who shot the barman, all conspiracy of silence, because when they were asked who was the person who shot the barman, all of them replied, we have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah. Now, Roosevelt just dishonorably discharging these men with, okay, yes, there was an investigation, but it was a very

dodgy investigation. This caused outrage across the country, obviously with the black population uh also with a large white population who could also see how obviously unfair this was yeah so that happened you'll be pleased to know though that the quite 1972 oh wonderful so meaningful one of them was still alive apparently so that's nice wow uh yeah roosevelt received a lot of criticism at the time um he was very angered by this criticism he was very angered that anyone dared call him racist and claimed that he would have done exactly the same even if the soldiers were white in 1992 historian nathan miller after highlighting how the buffalo soldiers were clearly framed then stated this is undoubtedly true but the blacks were convinced that he had acted like a racist which just goes

to show how being in america has not actually changed unfortunately because even the historians are still saying that this only looks like it could be racist rather than it being obviously racist that's a fair point yeah it's it's just it's just not good um yeah so there's a lot of anger against uh roosevelt in the black population uh about this and remember the republican party was the party for the black population the republicans were the party of emancipation yeah so there's a little bit of unrest there still the running of the country rolled on. A couple more major events take place, but unfortunately for time, there's just no time to go into it in detail. Just knowing that the economy crashed in 1907, JP Morgan used it as

an opportunity to buy up some more companies. Roosevelt, seeing that the economy was about to collapse completely, did not go after him for it and essentially said yeah go on that's fine hoping that it would stabilize things uh which arguably it did uh but a lot of people felt betrayed that roosevelt was now in the pockets of big business well like like you say that's the sort of way the republican party may be edging towards if that's what you think they do so i mean this mean, this is the problem, and we still see it exactly now. As terrible as some of these big businesses can be, if you literally just let them fall apart, the country will be in ruins. And Roosevelt realised that.

He's got no other option. He's got to keep the businesses running. But he lost some support there. I mean, that's what I'm quite looking forward to, when we get to the 20s and the crash. Yeah, yeah. He's very reminiscent of that, anyway. Yes, yeah.

We also, around this time, a fleet was completed. The Great White Fleet, it was called um yeah the great white fleet was sailed all around the world as a display of naval power look what we have done we're now the second biggest navy in the world and we can reach anywhere in the world in particular let's float around japan for a bit to make sure they know exactly who's boss look how big we are look how white we are yeah you'll be relieved to know that it was called the great white fleet because all the hulls were painted white uh that's the reason yeah but i mean it's not a good name is is it? It's really not. Yeah. Anyway, that's about it, really.

His second term comes to an end. We'll cover how he supported his successor Taft in Taft's episode. But just know, Roosevelt essentially handpicked his successor, and his successor was then nominated because democracy. Roosevelt was clear, he's not serving again, and he didn't. And he's only 50 years old, still relatively young. So he goes on to do many, many more things. But keeping to our tradition, we're not going to cover them here. That said, because there was a lot of debate about this. Online, people were saying, you can't do only two episodes uh in my head i have been

desperately trying to fit this into two episodes which i think i've just about managed to do but i've come up with this compromise uh we are stopping here we're not going into the rest of his life the next episode will be taft um but we will have a part three of Roosevelt at some point. It might be at the end of the series. Maybe we'll just pop it in like we did with the Emperor Norton episode. It will be very much a bonus episode though, rather than part three.

We're going to rate him here and we're going to go on to the next because we need that structure. Otherwise we will become so bogged down. We'll never get to the end if we start extending these episodes especially especially to get more into the future as well yeah exactly we need to draw lines somewhere so i agree drawing it here but quick spoiler just so you know what will be coming

in part three uh he goes to africa he explores the amazon rainforest he flies in a plane. He is shot. Yeah, I mean, all sorts of stuff happens. He certainly doesn't go quietly into the night after this point. And that shooting story is fantastic. Yeah, yeah. It's such a shame we're not covering it here. But I'm not going to cover it here. If you're listening to this in the future and you're just binge listening all of them,

maybe it's already up. Maybe go and check and see, and you can just binge listening all of them maybe it's already up maybe go and check and see and you can listen to part three now uh but that's probably fair way in the future i'm getting a bit of weird existential dread now it's like there's somebody listening to something that i haven't recorded yet yeah it's weird isn't it uh if you listen to these as we release them it'll be a while but if you're really sad that we're ending Roosevelt here don't worry we will come back to him but as we've stopped at the end of the presidency with all the others that is where we're going to stop here yeah there you go that is Teddy Roosevelt what a guy what do

you think he had his positives he got things moving he's very proactive. Yeah. A few questionable decisions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But also decisions that perhaps were out of his control. But that will be a discussion that we have, I'm sure. Yeah. Fortunately, there's now part of the podcast that is dedicated to having those discussions. Yay! So let's have them now.

Statesmanship! Okay. Now, okay, highlight here, I'd say throughout his entire career as a politician, is his fighting against corruption. Yes. Yeah. From his starting in the State Assembly in New York to him being a civil service commissioner, New York police commissioner, and then the president, Every step of the way, he fought the blanket corruption that was rife throughout the country. He just did not care how many people he made enemies with. If it wasn't fair, if it wasn't right, he went after that person.

I know we shouldn't judge it on this, but how successful roughly was he? I'd say he was reasonably successful. There's only so much one person can do, even if they do become the president. But he won things. He stopped corruption. Not always, but even if he didn't, the fight is there. And the fight means people are talking about it. If people are talking about the corruption,

people are noticing it more, and it makes it easier for the next person to fight. There's a reason why Roosevelt's presidency is seen as the end of the Gilded Age and the start of the Progressive Age. I mean, you could argue that he's not the person who wishes in most of what's seen as the Progressive Age's positives, but he's certainly the person who sets it up, who makes it possible. I think that is huge huge we have had decades

of just awful governance yeah and we finally got someone who is actually saying no this isn't right we need to we'd have a what he would call a square deal as woolly and indefined as that is he's he's fighting for it uh he stood up for workers rights i mean he threatened to take the minds off minor owners i cannot think of a single president since lincoln who would dare to do such a bold thing uh just to try and get some kind of social justice uh so that's really good the economy, still in the grips of hyper-capitalism, is still going boom and bust all the time. But you get the impression at least he's trying to sort out the root of the problem. A lot of his time as president, the economy's doing

amazingly well, and then it goes under again. I don't think, as I've said before, you can really single out individual presidents for boom and bust cycles. But you get the feeling that he realised that it was a cycle and he was trying to stabilise it. He's definitely the first president to stand up to the robber barons. And sometimes

he actually won. He also worked to bring peace between Russia and Japan, which is nice. I mean, you can argue his role is perhaps blown out of proportion. But he certainly had a major role in it. So, yeah, that's good. End of war. Yeah.

So, yeah, they have some pretty damn good positives. I'd argue the best positives we have seen since Lincoln. I'd agree with that. It's certainly looking out for the average person, which is easy not to do. I think economy is important. We need to keep that running, even if, you know, hundreds of thousands of people have to die.

Especially as he comes from the aristocracy class. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, it's good. It's good stuff. But there is certainly bad. The invasion of Colombia, if you're looking at it purely as a is this interesting history, then like you say, you've got to admire the move in a

way, and they managed to get what they want, and they just went in and took it. But in a real... Actually, imperialist invasions aren't good. And, yeah, I mean, people would argue it's not an invasion, that he merely let a coup develop in the country.

But I think that falls into the trap of seeing it how he wanted to spin it. Exactly, yeah. To sum it up, a country had land that the United States wanted, so the United States organised men with guns to take it, which they did. I mean, it's an invasion. Yeah, it's an invasion without starting a war. Yeah, exactly.

So it's not good as a statesman. It's not... I don't think there was enough reason to justify it. It's no different to Polk's Land Crab of Mexico. No, it's true. It's just a case of we want it, so we're going to take it, and no one can stop us. Yeah.

Considering the whole idea of America apparently was because they hated that Britain did that all the time, it's not a good look. It's really not. Yeah. So, yeah, there we go. That's this round. I think a healthy eight is not. Yeah. So, yeah, there we go. That's this round. I think a healthy eight is deserved. Yeah, I'm really...

The positives are really good. But you can't just go and take a huge chunk out of a country because you feel like it and not be penalised at all. So, yeah, I'm going with eight as well. Sixteen. Disgracegate. Okay, disgracegate. A couple of things.

As ever, let's start with racism. It's definitely a more tricky and nuanced one with Roosevelt than we've had with some presidents who are very clearly very racist, or very clearly very not racist. Fewer of those, to be fair.

Yeah, you've got different factors, different arguments going on with Roosevelt, I'd argue. Saying that, I think it's very clear that he is racist, and he gets off the hook quite a lot. He's really not considered as a racist person. But let's not forget from last episode episode he wrote The Winning of the West where he summed up his ideas he genuinely believed that some civilizations were better than others. In fact, remember he wrote of the Native American population as

being a few degrees less meaningless squalid and ferocious than that of the wild beasts. Yeah. Now those that defend Roosevelt say that he talks about civilizations rather than race but i'd argue that's semantics personally i mean you you could also you could put the argument forward it's synonymous as well yeah that's the way that those people were yeah so um that's not good uh he did argue that all civilizations should be equal,

and he argued that he wanted equality, but he also could not see the problem with his civilization slash race stomping over all the others, so his vision of what equality was would be achieved. Almost like a classical imperialistic view. Yeah, exactly, and that's what it is. It's very imperialistic. It's not great. Perhaps what you'd call an unconscious

racist. I genuinely think he would be outraged and shocked at the idea of being called racist. If you remember, he got very angry when people said you firing all those black soldiers was a racist move. He would probably say, at this time, I'm very liberal.

I'm very accepting. Yeah, but... With modern eyes, no. Yeah, well, not just modern eyes. Back then, people said, you're being racist. Yeah, that's true. Fair point. Yeah. But, I mean, he does have some things going for him in this area.

He was the first president to invite a black man to a formal dinner in the White House. Not long after he became president, he invited Brooker Washington to come and have dinner. He was genuinely horrified at how much this angered the South. The South were outraged that a black man dined in the White House. Yeah, but that said, he wasn't horrified at the reaction and then continued to do it. In fact, he never invited another black man to the White House again. Yeah. So he kind of bowed to that pressure. But then also positive. I mean, he was instrumental in making sure that there were no segregated classrooms in New York.

Yes, that's true. So, like I say, there's a bit more nuance in Roosevelt than perhaps some presidents, but I definitely think he gets let off the hook a lot. There are some very dodgy things going on here. And it's just, I'm sorry, but it's not good enough saying you can't judge someone back then on today's morality because people back then were calling him racist and why should we count roosevelt's opinion rather than the people who

said no you're being racist opinion so anyway i agree moving on from race uh there are a couple of other things uh he clearly angered a lot of people he was abrasive and he was intimidating a lot of the time um but i I don't know about you, I don't think I can take any marks off for this. No, that's just... Because you can also find... A forthright. Well yeah, you can also find a lot of evidence that he was very gentle, kind and funny with people. He was a very bombastic personality. The phrase, He was a very bombastic personality. The phrase, talk quietly and carry a big stick,

was one he would say often. People use that quote a lot when talking about Roosevelt. And it fits, it does. So yeah, I'm not going to take any marks off him for that. There is one last thing, though. If you remember the very start of last episode, he shot someone's pet dog just because he was in a bad mood oh yeah that's that's that's not that's minus 10 for me straight away i mean you don't go around shooting people's

pet dogs roosevelt just because you got dumped i mean it's no you don't um i mean you could argue in the grand scheme of things of things that are going on in the world, this is just a small thing, but it's a very small personal thing. Yeah. And let's face it, no one likes dogs being shot, so... No. So that's minus 10 for Roosevelt, isn't it? I don't know. I'm going to give him a minus 2.

I'm going to give him minus 4. Minus 4. Minus 4. Yeah, that's what I'm going for. So that's a minus 6, so he's now got ten. Ten. Okay, next round. Silvers Green.

Well, obviously he's getting four marks in this round. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. There's no point discussing that, to be honest. But quick rundown, though. He was born into the aristocracy. He was a very ill child. He went up the Nile. He climbed a pyramid.

He worked out. He went off to university. He became obsessed with the aristocracy. He was a very ill child. He went up the Nile. He climbed a pyramid. He worked out. He went off to university. He became obsessed with someone called Alice. The stalking went out in the end, and he married her. Alice then died. He lost his job and fell out politically with the Republicans. He ran to the West and became a cowboy. He went to Deadwood and met Timothy Oliphant.

He then married his childhood friend edith became a civil service commissioner he attacked his own party he reformed the new york police force he prepared the country for war he then went to war became a hero became a governor the vice president and then the president won a nobel peace prize took on the robber barons went to africa for a hunt got back into politics ran for president again was shot then went to the for a hunt, got back into politics, ran for president again, was shot, then went to the Amazon, and then died in 1919. Oh yeah, then he received the Medal of Honor about 70 years after that. I mean, it just blasts everyone else out of the water, including Jackson, I'd argue.

By quite a way, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely four marks in terms of interesting life. It's just a very interesting life. It's someone who you'd want to go and study. You might not like everything you see. There's a bit of a mixed bag there, but I'd say there are a lot of positives. And it's inarguably very interesting.

So there we go. 20. Official portrait. I like it. It's sort of more quite bold strokes. The fact he's got his massive hand on a massive ball there. That's a power. That's a power pose right there, isn't it? Yeah.

Now, the story behind this is that he needed to have his official portrait done. He had no time for things like that. And the artist was following him around until eventually Roosevelt just spun round and put his hand on the banister as if to go, leave me alone, seriously. And the artist just went, that's it, that's the pose. And he painted. Just hold it there, five hours. Yeah.

Yes, I really like this one. Yeah. As I've said before, I've got a bit of a, I don't know if it's advantage or disadvantage because I've seen all of the portraits, whereas you've not. But I know for a fact, this is one of my favourite out of all of them. There's a certain feeling of dynamics to it.

It's a sort of feeling of movement. He's not standing there trying to look presidential. He's stood there looking at you as if to say, what? And I think the difference is as well with this one, the background's very pale, very light. It makes him stand out more with his dark clothing. Yeah, yeah, it's good. And he does It makes him stand out more with his dark clothing. Yeah, yeah, it's good.

And he does look like he's about to kick your teeth in. He does, doesn't he? Yeah, I don't know if I didn't know what he looked like, whether I'd be surprised what he looks like, but because obviously I do know what he looks like, that's just what I've been picturing the whole time. It's an impressive tash, though. It's an impressive tash. It is.

I'm looking very modern. It's the second the second to last facial hair on any president wow we've only got one more well he's looking very modern as um because he's got a turned down collar got a tie this this looks like it could be from the 30s 40s are those are those trousers's wearing? They're trousers rather than pantaloons, yeah. Yeah. You could put this from the time he was up to the 1950s, I think. Yeah, you're right. It's almost like a timeless. Knowing that it is one of my favourite, I'm going high.

I don't think I'm going full because it's not my favourite. I'm going nine. I'm going nine as well. I'm going high. I don't think I'm going full because it's not my favourite. I'm going nine. I'm going nine as well. I'm going nine as well. That is 4.5 for canvas ability. Bonus! Okay, we go into the last round. So, terms.

Oh, he's going to be kicking himself here. Only one. Yeah, he didn't do two full terms, although he almost did. It's only one term assassination we've got a debate here because I know we've not been 100% consistent with this

but I'm just going to say he is getting one for the fact that he got shot I know he wasn't president at the time and I'm fairly sure we said we're only going to count it when they're president. But forget that. That's out the window.

There's no way that the man's getting shot, not getting a point for it. The fact, because I know this fact. It's something I know. The fact he got shot mid-speech, but carried on the speech. You don't know the story. You know the popular myth of the story. Oh, do I? Okay, fair enough then.

Yeah, he wasn't actually in the middle of the speech he was about to deliver the speech but did he carry on without flinching though either way that's badass he ripped the bullet out of the bullet hole and then swallowed it and then carried on nice

that's what I heard anyway yeah no he's getting this point obviously not two it didn't kill him but he's getting this point Obviously not two, it didn't kill him But he's getting the point for assassination In my mind, I think he deserves that And yes, there might be some people furiously grabbing Facebook or Twitter To say we've not been consistent

But, yeah, take it up with Teddy if you've got a problem Right, next Election, Two points. He only did one election. And he won by a landslide. So he gets the two points. Yes, he does. So there we go.

We've got a final score. I'm guessing it's big. But I don't know how big. I do. You do, because you've been there. I've done the adding. You've done the adding. I'm just going to double check, because, you know, maths is not the strongest point.

Whilst you're double-checking, I'm just going to point out to our listeners that our current leader is Lincoln on 40, and second place is George Washington on 37. So, where does Roosevelt come? He got 30. Oh, yeah. 9.5. Oh!

He's second. He is so close, so close to being third. He's 0.5 away. 0.5 away. He's stroking Lincoln's... It's almost like he's carved into a mountain next to Lincoln's face. That's how close he is. And third place Washington.

And Jefferson, who is not actually that high in our opinion. Wow, there we go. Oh. I'll be honest. I had a feeling he might beat Washington. I didn't think he'd get that close to beating Lincoln, but, oh, he was close. He must be kicking himself.

Right now. Right now. Well, there we go, then. Yeah. I don't think I like him as a person as much as Lincoln. I probably like him as a person more than Washington, though. But I think if he's in the room, you would like him. He's so loud and, oh, yeah, okay.

Yeah, let's go to... We'd be painting, like, the... The little war paint on. The war paint on. If he'd asked us to. Right, shall we say yes to this next bit? Yeah. American or American?

Yes. Yeah. Okay, so that is... That is the first of the Roosevelts. Let's not forget, we've got another one. His son, yes. No, it's not his son. It is a relative. We'll get into that when we cover the next Roosevelt.

But we've got a few to go. We've got Taft, obviously, and then we've got Wilson and Harding and Coolidge and Hoover. Oh, because Coolidge was around during the crash. That'd be interesting. I'm looking forward to that one. Yeah, so we've got a few before we get to FDR. But, yeah. So, there we go. Thank you very much for

listening to this probably slightly longer episode than usual. Yeah. May I offer a slight addendum as well it's like um the world's going through crap at the moment as i as you'd agree yes it is um in multiple ways uh we've got things that we can't control for example the virus we can't control it but we can mitigate it we can put things in place and some countries are obviously more successful than others but there are things that we can control we can control the way we treat people

the way we act around people and certainly certain groups of people as well and um the fact that people are getting killed because of the way because of their race or the way they look is genuinely appalling. So stop it. Yes, I agree. Sorry, slight rant there. I felt slightly, you know, fair rant, but... It's a very fair rant. I totally agree with the rant, Jamie.

Yeah. We'll leave on that rant. Thank you very much for listening. I hope that listening to some stories about presidents makes everyone's lives a little bit better

for a little bit. Yes. Yes. Right, okay. And until next time... Goodbye. Goodbye. so do you think it's appropriate that you're at a meeting and being shaved at the same time do you think it damages your value as a as a president what are you talking about man i always

get shaved at this time no ask a sensible question man but but it seems like to our readers that you are you're not taking these press conferences seriously if you're getting shaved at the same time sir i'm a busy man anyway i'm finished shaving now and as i was saying if you really want to get more information on the story i was talking about earlier go and talk to jp morgan yes jp now sir is that on the record or is it off the record very much off the record in fact i've got quite a bit more to say about this, but I've finished the shave, so if you just follow me, no, this way. OK.

Yes, shave's done. No, not in the office, this way. OK, where are we off to? Just down the corridor. Anyway, you said you had questions about the bill. Well, yes, I think the bill is very... Sir, why have you stopped? Just in here, man. Keep going, keep going. This is the toilet, sir. Yes, come on, I'm a busy man,

out with it. Just over there, so I can get in the cubicle. There's a good man. Sir, what are you doing? Right, yeah, there we go. Anyway, question. Would you at least close the cubicle door? Then I will be able to hear you. Come on, man. I'll be done just in a moment. Oh, my God. Well, so do you think, Mr. President, that the Bill of 1473 will go through in the Senate? What?

Speak up, man. I'm pooing. Regards to the bill, do you think it's likely to pass? What? Well, of course it will go through. It'll go through as rapidly as these kidney beans are going through me, man. Oh, God. Right. All done there. Okay.

If you could just hold this. No! Those words make no sense. Eternally he as faint all right. Who knows what I was meant to be typing there. Oh, I think I've got it.

Essentially, he was doing alright. That sounds like somebody that's done that before. He was very stalkery. What a year. Should we have like disgraced Gate taken into consideration that he quite literally stalked someone for a year because that was dodgy wasn't it

someone is going to bring that up let's not mention it now let's wait for someone to bring it up then we'll change it if they say okay