American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 31.1 Herbert Hoover

Episode Date: October 24, 2020

Herbert Hoover lives an action packed life full of contradictions. Join us as we try and figure out who this man is. A robber Barron? A great humanitarian? A populist? A progressive? A massive racist? And also, will he be ready for the upcoming great crash?

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, The Hoover Part 1. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Total so to have to rank him, I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump, and this is episode 31.1. It's the Hoover. Ah. Herbie, Herbie Hoove, as they sometimes called him. Don't think he had any other names. Bertie H, maybe.

Her who? Gone down in history mainly as No, not that Hoover. I wonder which is more famous. Well, I guess the vacuum cleaner is more famous because... I'm more thinking J. Edgar Hoover rather than Vacuum Hoover. What's Vacuum Hoover's name?

Hoover. Oh, yeah. No, it's his first name. I don't know. I didn't think to check. Vacuum. Probably Vacuum. Anyway, welcome.

A strong start to this episode. I'm sure everyone will agree. It's, you know, we just need to get into it. There's a lot to cover. So let's dive in. Let's go. Come on, intro jam. Hang on.

So, you know, like, the 60s TV shows like Batman and stuff. They'd often have, like, a spinning spiral like that. To show someone being hypnotised. Yeah, start on that. A spinning spiral? Yeah, the spiral's red and the background's, like, a luminous green. You could not have given me a better start. Thank you.

Right, so spinning spiral in that way. You've got the diddly, diddly, diddly, diddly, diddly. Not in the background. Yeah. And then coming towards the screen rapidly and then moving away rapidly and then towards the screen rapidly and then away rapidly in a really dodgy kind of effects way is a spinning globe and the globe spins and the spiral in the background spins and then because of your

intro we're going for it the words pow and ka-plam and uh they all spin into the screen and then then one spins in the screen and just says hello mr hoover and one spins in the screen and just says, hello, Mr. Hoover. And one spins into the screen and says, oh dear. And then there's another one that just says, boom. And then everything spins away and then it's just blackness. And then a small little cartoon figure drags the name Herbert Hoover onto the screen. Almost like the intro to a Pink Panther film. Oh, nice.

I'm impressed. A quick intro because we've got lots to do. I was literally just going to have a spinning globe, but I liked the cartoony effect you've given it to me. Okay, fair enough. Okay, I'm going to sum up the whole episode in one word, actually, to begin with. Whirlwind.

Well, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed. There we go. Don't forget you can balance a puppet. We're going to do more detail. Oh, okay. We're going to build up. That was the quick version. Now we go. Don't forget you can balance the puppy. We're going to do more detail. Oh, okay. We're going to build up. That was the quick version.

Now we get the longer version. So grab something, Jamie. Got it. I can only see you shoulder up. So I'm going to choose that you have grabbed the edge of your desk. Nope. Okay, we start in 1874.

Herbert Clark Hoover was born to a Quaker family in Iowa. Quaker, Iowa, farm country. Yes, well done. You summed that up nicely. He was the second of three children. He had an older brother and a younger sister. His father was called Jesse, and he was a blacksmith. And his mother was Hulda.

And she was a prominent woman in the local church. Ah indeed because Quakers are no I'm thinking of Amish never mind. If you remember near the start in fact the start of our series there were a lot of Quakers in Pennsylvania yeah which is why Pennsylvania won the nicest state of the year award at least 50 years running to begin with because everyone was just a bit nice. Anyway, that's now. Quakers in Iowa as well.

Nice. They've spread. They have. You've got Jesse and Holder and their little children in Iowa. At the age of two, little Herbert Hoover died. Well, thanks for listening. You can download us on Pubbean

and iTunes. Don't forget to leave a review. You didn't expect that, did you? No. You didn't see that one coming. No. I mean, it's going to put us down on his presidency, I'll be honest. Yeah. I mean, I did consider having this as the opening, but I thought maybe a little bit morbid. Just opening a dead child oh yeah so i decided against it uh yeah he contracted the the old crew or group if you're pronouncing the right uh yeah not good uh those around him feared

uh that he was indeed dead because he looked dead. He did everything a dead child would do. But then his uncle managed to resuscitate him. I tried to find out how, whether it was like full-on little heart-pumpy things, but I couldn't find out. But yeah, apparently they all thought he was dead, but his uncle managed to bring him back from the brink. Right, you know the Sixth Sense?

This episode is now this. He is dead, he doesn't realise. All the way through. Well, you shouldn't have said Jamie, because that's the big plot twist at the end of the next episode. But yeah, he can definitely see ghosts now.

He is one, he doesn't realise. He doesn't know though, does he? Anyway, no longer dead, or at least not thinking he's dead. It was a quiet and simple life for little Bertie. As he grew, he would swim in the creeks, he would sled the slopes in winter,

he would fish, and one day he even learnt how to use a bow and arrow to hunt chickens. Do you hunt a chicken, or just catch a chicken? Because hunting sounds a bit extreme for a chicken. Ah, you got wild all sorts in the West, didn't you? Yeah, exactly. So there you go.

Very nice. However, this was when life was very exciting because actually for most of his childhood, life was very serious and very dull. Apparently one day little Bertie was told off by his father for the crime of giggling. Bad child! Also, when he was very small, Bertie was given a Bible to study.

Chapter by chapter, that was what he would do for his entertainment. He would spend hours upon hours with his mother in bare rooms as she worked as a minister. In fact, I'll quote Herbert Huber here. Those who are acquainted with the Quaker faith and those who know the primitive furnishings of the Quaker meeting house will know the intense repression upon a 10-year-old boy who might not even count his toes. Very strict and very... Quakery.

And then, when he was six years old, a bit of excitement for the family. Who dies? You shouldn't laugh, it was his father. Of pneumonia. But you totally got it. The excitement was death. His dad

died of pneumonia. A devastated holder ordered a headstone for her husband, but then the elders in the church forced her to remove it because it was too ostentatious. Yeah. Yeah. Holder fell on hard times. She could not afford to feed her children.

They were destitute. To deal with her grief, she threw herself more into her religion. Not able to cope with the three children, she sent Bertie off to live with various family members. So he sort of did the rounds around the family for a bit. And then when he was 10, he received some more devastating news. Mum? Oh, yes.

Yeah, Mum. Yes, Mum. Holder becomes ill very quickly and suddenly dies. The three children are orphaned. Oh dear. Herbert's elder brother later wrote of, and I quote, helplessness and despair and a dumb animal terror. They were just left all alone.

I mean, yes, they were family members, but they weren't close family members. So what are they going to do? Workhouse orphanage? No, because there are family members around. The three children were split up and sent to the various family members once more. Herbert was informed that he was going west, very much like the band. He was going to Oregon. Sorry, it's a go west joke.

Very niche, well done. Yes, it is uh yes he was going to go to oregon to live with the uncle who had saved his life when he was two years old that's nice that is this is uncle john mint horn oh what a great name i'm not making that name up i promise uncle john mint horn sounds like a character you'd make up for some kind of humorous role-playing game. Yeah, or Roald Dahl. Yes, yeah. But no, Uncle John Minthorn was a real person.

No, you're right, it's a bit Roald Dahl-like, isn't it? How would you imagine John Minthorn to be, personality-wise? Eccentric. Eccentric. And owned sheep and goats. Mainly sheep. John Mint's also a sheep and they have horns. Nice.

Yeah. No. Oh. No. John Mint Horn was a very serious man. Oh. So, Herbert was placed on a train and spent seven days all alone travelling to an uncertain future. At the age of ten.

At the age of ten. Yes. Yeah, he arrives. There is Uncle John Minthorn. John's son had died about a year previously, so that's why the rest of the family hoped that he would be able to take Herbert under his wing. Herbert would be an ideal replacement.

Uncle John did not think of it this way. Uncle John more thought, my son's dead, who do you think you are? Ooh. Yeah. He also fully believed that idle hands were the devil's work. Oh dear. So he puts Herbert to work.

And Herbert Hoover, up until the age of 16, chopped trees. He split logs, he cleared stumps, he hauled wood. He was as serious a young man as his uncle was, by all accounts. Oh, he had to be. Yeah, I mean, apparently you could tell they were of the same family. They had similar attitudes to life and neither of them liked each other much. His uncle recalled later that Herbert was resentful when being told to do anything at all. That said, however, Herbert did do the tasks. He didn't slack.

If he believes one thing, it's that idle hands were the devil's work. Yeah, so he was going to do the tasks. He also got the basics of education due to his uncle setting it up. However, Herbert soon dropped out of school because Uncle John Minthorn had decided a new career was needed. Instead of working the land, having a farm and working in timber, he was going to be a real estate promoter, which is one of those changes that you would be able to get back in those days in America, where people could just go, I'm going to do this for a bit.

Right. I might starve to death trying it. That's a very real possibility, but who knows? Let's give it a go. It's the American dream. So, yeah, real estate promoter, that's the new idea. Herbert was soon getting his education through doing the books in this new company. Numbers. Yeah, he dropped out of school and he was doing the books. He continued

his education at night school, so he was still getting an education, but mainly he spent his time working. Through doing the books for this new company, like I say, he worked on the numbers. He got a bit of a head for mathematics. However, more than anything at this time, what he really, really wanted was to be free from others telling him what to do. That was his life ambition. He wanted to be free to do what he wanted to do. He wants to be a hippie. That's what he wants. Oh, no, no, no, no. Herbert Hoover would have no time for hippies. He wants to be free to do what he can do, and that means lots of work. Oh.

Yeah. Herbert Hoover was a very serious young man. Oh, okay. Yeah. He wanted to earn a living all on his own without, and I quote, the help of anyone anywhere. He wanted to be his own boss. Pig-headed. Oh, we'll get to that. Then one day he met a mining engineer, just through chance, who told him about a new university that was opening up in California. It was called Stanford University.

I've heard of that. And Herbert set his mind on going. This sounded exactly the sort of thing he should be doing. Going off to a university, then starting his own business, and being his own man. Nice. So he put himself forward for the entrance exam. However, he failed miserably. Oh.

Yeah, I mean, as you can see, he's not had much in the way of an education. Sorry, sir, you can't admit you need to be able to write. He can read, he can write, he can do mathematics, but he's not had an education, as it were. There's a difference between being bright intelligent being able to do work and having an education so he didn't know latin essentially exactly it's like those kind of things that were going to hold him back his his writing wasn't brilliant his grammar was worse yeah he just he just failed the entrance exam. However, he did have something in his favour.

The professor who was setting the exam at the time happened to be the mathematics professor and also happened to be a Quaker. And this professor saw this young Quaker coming in with a love for mathematics and a really keen attitude and saw something in him and said to young Herbert after he'd failed the entrance exam you know what come back to California before the term starts revise to reset the exam we'll see what we can do nice so there you go that's what he does he was admitted to the university after putting in some extra study and managing to pass the exam he found it very hard. He was at a disadvantage. But he managed to get in.

He did not fit in with the others, as you can imagine. He was younger, he was poorer, and less educated than any of his classmates. He failed to get any credit in his first term whatsoever, and he only passed because one of the science professors sort of helped him out a little

bit with some of his work. Yeah. Yeah. However, his professors did see something in him. That seems to be a thing, doesn't it? It's obviously something that doesn't translate through the pages very well. If you look at what he's doing, it's like, well, hang on, how's he still succeeding when he's failing?

There was obviously something about him, a certain keenness, a certain forthright, go-get-them kind of attitude that he had that did impress people. Still, things weren't great until a chance meeting with the chair of the Department of Geology. Herbert suddenly found direction. Rocks, Jamie.

Rocks. Geology? Geology. Oh. Everyone loves a bit of rock work, don't they? Oh, yeah. A bit of igneous. Instantly, he switched his major to geology and started to work for a man named John Branner, the chair of the geology department.

He went out into the Ozarks region of America and charted the region. Where's that? Sort of... Right, you know, America's like an upside-down trapezium. Yeah. Yeah, it's sort of, if I'm getting this right, I think it's sort of in the middle to the right a bit.

More towards the east coast. Sort of Kansas area. Oh, OK, I'm with you. Yeah, sort of around there. Lots of different mountains and valleys, rivers, lakes, things like that. Lots of stuff that a geologist can really get stuck into. Like the Appalachians?

Yeah, yeah, quite possibly. They're a bit too far north, though, aren't they? They're a bit more to the right. But yeah, still, a geologist's dream. There you go. He went out to the Ozarks studying and mapping out the region, trying to make a big 3D relief map of the area. In fact, he did really well. His relief maps were so good,

they were part of Stanford's display during the next World Fair in Chicago. That's good. So, yeah, he really impresses. But he was really struggling to get by. He was living hand to mouth. He's got no money to his name at all. He pays for food through getting odd jobs like sign painting and herding horses. So he does that during the evenings and on his days off.

And he studies geology whenever he can. Yeah, sort of leading horses from one place to the next. I'm with you. Not like... I don't think he was going out... With a dog. ...gathering up wild horses. Yeah.

I think he was more getting packs of... They're not called packs, are they? Is it a herd? Is it a herd? Collective noun for a horse. I don't know. A trot. A trot of horses.

A stampede. Dunno. It's a good question. Dunno. Right-hand listeners. Yeah, anyway. He's a good question. Dunno. Right end listeners. Yeah, anyway. He's doing odd jobs. He's scraping by.

His fellow students struggle to get to know him. He didn't talk much. He rarely smiled. Apparently he shuffled around the campus with his head down, his hands in his pockets, just keeping to himself. He did not join one of the Greek lettered fraternities which are now common in the country he saw them as snobbish and elitist mainly because they were snobbish and elitist

however despite this he was elected class treasurer and showed that although he lacked academic skills more than made up for it in in his organisational skills. Oh dear. Because, if you can say anything for Herbert Hoover, apart from the thing I said earlier, it's that he was phenomenally good at organising things. That's a skill. It is a very good skill, and you're going to see how far he can take that skill. Now, at this time, he was using these organisational skills to organise the sporting teams.

The sporting teams of the university approached him, asked him to help them run the books, which he did so, but also organise games and events that would happen. So ultimately, although he wasn't popular per se, he was respected at university. One person, however, he did make a firm friendship with, and this was in the geology department. A young lady called Lou Henry was enrolled, the only woman to be majoring in geology at the time. Herbert fell for her almost immediately. I bet she was the focus of a lot of

attention. I bet she was. Female! You get the feeling that the geology department in Stanford at the turn of the 19th century was perhaps a bit fussy and a bit dusty and, let's face it, very male. So, yes, I'm sure a lot of attention would have been paid, especially by Herbert. The two got on really well. Herbert was convinced that Lou was the woman for him,

but he was frustrated because, well, he'd graduated from Stanford, he'd done well enough, and he wanted to propose to Lou, but there was a problem. Family matters, like she's too rich and wealthy and stuff. Yeah, you're on the right lines, but it was more his family rather than her family. Quakers. Kind of. Not that, it was more his family rather than her family. Quakers. Kind of.

Not that. It's that he doesn't have a family, really. Oh, yeah. He doesn't have any money whatsoever. He's got no means behind him. He didn't feel like he could propose. What did he have to offer a woman? Oh.

So he couldn't. He was poor. He was worthless. So he didn't propose. That's even sadder. Yeah. Instead, he decided to go and make something of himself. So he went and got a job.

He took what work he could. He started working pushing a hand cart in a gold mine. We are obviously in California. Gold mines are still a thing. Ten hours a night, seven days a week, he pushed this cart around a gold mine. Grueling, back-breaking, depressing, dangerous work. That would be awful. Oh, yes.

But as the economy was struggling at the time, he soon lost that job. He worked in another pit for a while, but again, he was soon out of work due to the economy. It was a hard time for Herbert. In fact, I quote him, I then learnt what bottom levels of real human despair are paved with. But then he caught a break. A huge, huge break, although it would not have been obvious at the time. He got a job as a copyist for a prominent mining engineer who was an agent for the Rothschilds.

In this job, he soon proved that his knowledge and his organisation skills made him more than just copious material, and he rose in the estimation of his employer. So much so that when a London-based firm asked for an experienced engineer of at least 35 years old to go to Australia to scout for mine sites, his employer put Herbert's name forward for the job. Australia? Yeah. There's a slight problem with that. Not the Australia part. How many?

At least 35 years old. Oh. Yeah, Herbert's 22 at this point. Oh, and the other thing was, it was an experienced engineer. Herbert has no experience. Well, he's pushed a cart around. He's worked in a mine, and he's also done the study at university. He knows the theory, he's done some practical,

but he's not got experience of actually being a full-on engineer. He's got some grassroots work, and he's got some theory work. The potential's there. In fact, he probably could do the job, but it's not what the London-based firm was asking was asking for still why not give it a go him and his employer thought so herbert bought a top hat and a coat and he grew a mustache in an attempt to look older and he set off for england nice first of many times where we're going to see the map whilst the map is sort of half faded we see a montage of him travelling and we see a dotted line and a ship going through the world. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's happening and some nice music's playing. Oh, it's all the cartoony stuff from the intro. That's what's going on. Yes, that music. There we go. He lands in England. Hey. He steps off.

Everyone's suddenly got an English accent. Oh, telly ho. Said the cockney gentleman who greeted him. See, maybe what you need to do now is change your accent to British. So to show when you're in Britain to America. Yeah, definitely. Once he was there. That's terrible.

Oh, sorry. Once he was there, he had an interview with the London mining company, American Moring. It was Moring himself who talked to Yoncouver, who claimed to be 36 during the interview. Now, whether Moring believed Hoover or not,

I couldn't find out, and it doesn't really matter, because Hoover was seen as the right man for the job. I'm guessing he did not look 36, because it's very hard to look 36 when you're 22. But then, he had been working down the mines for a bit so

that will age you quickly won't it so anyway of course you can have the job they said go to Australia find some mines for us we'll see you in six months or so so off to France went to Huber again montage time over the Alps down Italy

over the Mediterranean through, down Italy over the Mediterranean, through the Suez Canal, into the Indian Ocean and onto Australia where he lands That makes it sound so quick but we just know it's like three months of travel Yeah, this has taken a long time, it was a long journey and the furthest away from America

anyone's gone so far in our series. Ever in history Yeah, we're in Australia for the first time. So our Australian listeners, I can see you in the background now as he's landing. You can all wave. G'day. That's good. That's good.

Yeah, Hoover, he didn't like it, I'm sorry to say, Australian listeners. Not one bit. In fact, I quote quote a country of red dust black flies and white heat that's pretty accurate in my head that's probably about right uh i don't know now he had a decent wage and a house to live in uh but he was rarely in this house uh instead he was off touring through the Australian desert, using Afghan camels to get him places. Yeah, he just ranges the vast country,

searching for any opportunities for his employer. He spent a year and a half traversing the desert, searching for gold. If he was searching for opals, he'd have been fine. He probably found loads of opals. Like, no, that's not gold. He was kicking them out of the way, he was. Yeah. probably found loads of opals like no it's not gold it's kicking them out the way he was yeah yeah one the size of a like a house brick no yeah no looking for gold well his biggest success story was when he inspected a mine that had already been set up by

a welsh mining company uh he gave it the once over and then he wrote back to london advising his employers that they buy this mine immediately. Seriously, buy it straight away. Whatever they offer, just get it. This is worth far, far more than the current owners realise. Because they thought there was like, that they had lamps and candles down there, but it turned out to be the glow from the gold. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they found it because there was just a hum whenever they walked past it the sounds of angels

yeah uh beric and mooring purchased the mine for approximately a million dollars they quite quickly had made a profit of 64 million dollars so how would you feel if you you're the welsh people that sold it because you're kind of like i've got a million dollars that's great but i could have had 64 million dollars yeah yeah you could have made a man out of that six million dollars is it six million yeah it's only six oh you can make even more than yeah you can make 10 and a bit. I feel sorry for the bit, though. Kill me! We have the technology. Anyway, because this mine and others were doing very well,

they then gave Hoover a new job. Right, you're no longer in charge of scouting out for new mines. You're now in charge of those new mines that you have created in Australia for us. You're now the overseer. So Hoover set out to run the mines with an iron fist and his usual ability to organise those around him incredibly well. As you can probably guess,

working conditions in the mines in the deserts of Australia around the turn of the century. Not great. Not great. We're just going to leave it at not great. Okay. Yeah, strikes were very common. Hoover routinely fired anyone who expressed any sympathy with the strikers whatsoever.

Wow. He reduced pay and stopped double pay on Sundays. He would employ those that were the most desperate, thinking they would be easier to exploit, namely at the time Italian migrants. In this case, in fact, he wrote back to London, and I quote, He's horrible. He is full on just robber baroning his way through his 20s here. Wow. Hoover saw himself as, and I'll quote here,

correcting the perversities and incompetence of men. Right. They just need a firm hand, these workers, and they'll soon get into line. Yeah. Yeah. Those who worked for him generally came to utterly loathe him. However, he was loved by his bosses, as you can imagine Hoover had proved that he could squeeze more work per man per day Than pretty much anyone

And he was still practically a kid So things looked good He was made a junior partner of the company he was doing so well And given a new job How about, Hoover, you go to China And set up some mines over there? We're doing well enough in Australia now. Off to China you go. Of course, huge pay rise in it for Hoover. Nice. So do you fancy it? Hoover decided that yes, he did.

But now he was really secure in this job. He was junior partner. He got a pay rise. That meant he could do one thing that he really wanted to do. Lou. Oh, yes. He sent a telegram back to Lou in the United States. Will you marry me? She replied that she would. Aw.

Yes. Hoover headed back to London to talk details on China and then across the Atlantic once more back to the United States again map dotted line lots of moving around and there he married Lou nice small ceremony in her family home job done they're married two weeks later they're on a boat crossing the Pacific heading for China oh yes which way was that globe spinning? Because he's making his way around it quite a bit. He's wrapping the miles, isn't he?

Oh, he certainly is. Hoover soon made up his mind on the mines that the company owned in China. I'll quote him here. Asiatic and Negroes are of a lower mental order. One white man equals two or three of the coloured races, even in the simplest forms of mine work, such as shoveling. Oh, God, not again.

Yeah, again. He's a horrible person. Imagine the most imperialist British officer. Yes. Right. Yeah. Just give him a Californian accent and that that's what it is he he struts into china and expects everyone to follow his lead he was interested in chinese history but he refused

to adapt to any of the chinese customs he did not even attempt to learn the language uh he expected age-old customs century--old customs to just suddenly change because he thought that mines could run in a more efficient way if they just changed. As you can imagine, he was not liked. No, no. By pretty much anyone in China. And the feeling was mutual. He described the workers at one of the mines as, and I quote,

9,000 thieves. He recommended, after another inspection, and I quote, a thorough sweeping of the useless employees. Oh, and by the way, the date currently is 1900. Okay. Now, I will forgive you if that does not ring a bell, but if you're listening and you have a passing interest in Chinese history, that date will stand out.

Because that's right, we're slap-bang in the middle of the Boxer Rebellion. The what? The Boxer Rebellion. Now, there's barely time to cover Hoover's life as it is. We just don't have time to get into the Boxer Rebellion. There will be other podcasts out there. It's all very fascinating stuff. I'm going to put it far too simply here, just will be other podcasts out there. It's all very fascinating stuff.

I'm going to put it far too simply here, just so we have a vague idea. You've got 30 seconds, go. Well, China, after years of Europe, Japan and America pushing into China economically, financially and religiously, decided to start fighting back, or at least parts of China did. So acts of violence erupted within the country as Chinese Christians and foreign envoys were targeted and killed.

And there you go. That's the way I'm going to sum it up. Obviously, far more moving parts than that. But we're talking mainly in the north of China, regions of China rebelling against the economic invasion and literal invasion of other countries. Now, this rebellion all happened not long after Hoover and Liu arrived in the country. They were forced to erect barricades around their compound and they both went around fully armed wherever they went for a while. And then things get a

little bit murky. It's not very clear what happens. The Chinese government, fearing that they were about to collapse, got into talks with foreign mining operations, because foreign armies from various countries, from Europe, America, and Japan, were putting the rebellion down with force. And as that happened, they were seizing things as they went, such as mines. Now, the Chinese government welcomed the rebellion being put down. However, they didn't want to lose all the mines because they had a feeling they weren't going to get them back once the rebellion had been put down. So they talked to Hoover. Hoover had a suggestion. Why don't the Chinese government sell the mines to a British company? I don't know, maybe I could think of one. And that way they couldn't be seized because the other countries won't seize a British

mine. They'd happily seize the Chinese mines but they wouldn't seize the British one. You don't want to upset the British. Don't worry, you're not giving your mines away to the British. There'd be a Chinese board that would actually control the company but then they'd be safe. British in all but name, honest. Just sign there, and an initial here, and here, and here, and here. And just trust me, it'll be fine.

So yeah, this happened. Berwick & Mooring, oh, by the way, that happened to be the company that Hoover managed to, yeah, yeah. They acquired a lot of new mines and then all of a sudden for some reason moved their headquarters in china uh far away from where it was before uh to stop a chinese board from being assembled to control the mines basically they grabbed the mines and ran yeah some shady business. But again, the company were utterly thrilled, and Hoover pocketed over $400,000 for his part. Wow. Yeah. In 1901, he and Liu then headed back to London. They'd done

their part in China. And he's doing so well now that he actually becomes one of the four partners in the company. Wow. One newspaper noted that he was probably the highest salaried man of his age in the entire world. He is 27 at this point. Oh, my goodness. So, yeah, as he was strutting around China, just ordering people to do things, he was in his mid-20s. Wow.

Yeah. You need a certain... Mentality? Mentality to do that. Emotional scarring? Maybe. It makes you sick, though, because it's got... I've done nothing with my life.

Yeah, well, we'll stick with it. We'll see if you're jealous at the end. Right. Hoover and Lou then bought a house in a fancy part in London. Their villa in Kensington was very large and contained maids, a butler, a cook, a governess, because Lou was soon pregnant, the first of their two children was born. And for the next seven years, Hoover continues to utterly rake in the money and travel the world,

visiting mines all over the place, including going back to Australia for six months at one point. He was in the jungles of Burma for another period of time. He spent a couple of months in South Africa on his own this time because he had a bit of a mental breakdown through the stress of work and his doctor advised that he go to South Africa on his own just to try and sort things out mentally for a bit, which he did. However, despite how incredibly successful Hoover's being, the company is starting to have some problems. A couple of pesky commissions had been set up by the British government

to look into the legalities of the labour practices of some of the mines and some irregularities in the accounts of some of the other minds. All above board, I assure you, but it's a simple, simple error. I'm sure we could sort it out after lunch, what what. Yeah, Hoover decided, however, that maybe things were closing in. It was time to get out the business, strike it out on his own. Unfortunately, however, he was finding that the more successful he was in life, the more stressful he found it.

Well, yeah. Long ago, if you remember, what was his one wish when he was a teenager? I can't remember, I've forgotten. It was to be able to work for himself without being told what to do. Oh, yeah. How's that? He's achieved that now, but instead of feeling happy, he felt like he

had to prove himself further. In fact, he became obsessed with the idea that he must be a millionaire. He had several hundred thousand dollars to his name, he was most of the way there, but he wasn't quite there yet. And I'll quote him, if a man has not made a million by the time he's 40,

he's not worth much. What a son of a... Yeah, and don't forget, a million back then is a lot different to a million now. One of those quirks of language that being a millionaire has stuck around. And because it is a lot of money, it still means the same thing in the public consciousness. Yeah. But in reality, it's very different. A millionaire back then is just astronomically rich.

Yeah. Anyway, because he's struggling, he has another bit of a mental breakdown at this time, partially caused by insomnia. He can't sleep. He is obsessed with proving himself and he fears that he won't be able to do it. But hopefully with his own business,

where he's his own boss, not just a partner, hopefully he'll start feeling a bit better. So he decides to become... What job do you think he goes for? It's going to be random, isn't it? I don't know. Shoemaker. That would have been good. No, he doesn't

go random. He sticks with what he knows. He's going to be a mine doctor. Okay. He would going to be a mine doctor. Okay. He would tour the world and he would be hired to pick up ailing mines and put them back on their feet and then he'd go on to the next one. Like Gordon Ramsay's

restaurants. Yes, yes, exactly like that. Basically he would be paid an utter fortune to walk into a business and tell them who to fire, and then he'd walk out again. Yeah, it's like Herbert Hoover's My Nightmares. Yes, that's what he started up. Nice.

And he was apparently just as likeable. Yeah, I mean, for years, he was, again, all over the world. He worked on tin mines in Cornwall in England. He worked on gold mines, Klondike gold mines. One mine that does particularly well, because obviously he's not just repairing mines, he's also getting shares in mines and just putting fingers in various pies.

And one mine that does particularly well is one in Burma that he sets up. This does phenomenally well. He is now very rich. Millionaire four times over. However, he was soon getting a bit of a reputation. Hoover was the best at what he did. Everyone recognised that in the industry.

He was almost always successful at putting mines back on the right track. If you hired Hoover, you probably wouldn't regret it if all you cared about was the mind getting better. However, if you had to work with him whilst he was doing it, you would start to loathe him. You only employed him if you had to, basically. He was often rude, he exploded with anger at unpredictable times and had a habit when something did go wrong of blaming everyone but himself. He would never admit to a fault.

The biggest problem however was that Hoover was bored. Bored of mines. Well yeah, I mean he'd won. He'd won the rat race. He'd dreamt the dream. Last time he was suffering he decided he must become a millionaire so he did. So now what?

He needs to change career, then. He starts to think about other opportunities. By 1909, he was starting to develop an interest in politics. Now, not, it must be stressed, because he wanted to get into politics himself. No, of course not. If there was one thing that Hoover believed in, it was that government would be a lot better if there were fewer people in it. The less government, the better. No, by politics, Hoover started to take an interest in bettering the world in a way that he believed

it was best possible, through private volunteer work. He started taking an interest in what was going on in his old home in California, for example. He would hear stories of students like himself struggling to make ends meet, and he would just send money anonymously through connections, just make sure such and such has a bit of cash, don't say who it's from. One time, for example, he heard of a professor

who was unable to afford a rare expensive book so again anonymously he sent it off to the professor um yeah after a lot of oh god he's an awful person we actually finally see him he starts to do stuff with his money which is quite nice philanthropy yeah i mean you could argue it's very small scale. And seriously, maybe you should put your mind to doing something a bit bigger than just giving someone a book. But it's a start, isn't it? Yeah, it's a start. Maybe the cynic of me has made this next link because I didn't see it anywhere. But perhaps enough of these anonymous donations were told to the right people. in 1912 he was elected

as a trustee at stanford hoover threw himself into the role in typical fashion he's not one to idly do a job he's going to storm in and he's going to make things run his way and with his resources and his organization skills he pushed through a new library for the university, a gymnasium, a hospital. Upon learning that the professors' wages were so low that they could not even afford to, shock horror, get maids, he made sure that pay rises for all of the professors was forthcoming. Generally, everyone in the university was very pleased that Hoover was now around organising things and throwing money at stuff. Do you think it's competing?

Because it sounds like he's just trying to make the best university ever to beat, you know, Brown and... We will come back to that. We will. Put a pin in that. OK. Getting your head around Hoover took me a few attempts. Right. And eventually I landed on it because he keeps doing things where you go,

oh, okay, that's not quite what I thought he was like. And now he's doing this. Why would he do that? And then eventually something clicked in my head, but we'll talk about that at the end. So anyway, he's there. He's making the university run well, and he's pleased. He's still looking for something to do, however,

and the Panama Pacific International Expo was due in 1915. Big event. All very exciting. Hoover had an idea. Wouldn't it be great fun if he could get good old King George V of Britain to pop along? I mean, how hard could that be? Quite hard. Yeah. Well, don't forget,

Hoover's very well connected with British politicians by this point. He was based in London for a good few years, and he was filthy rich. So obviously he knew the politicians. So he set off to London to have some talks with some people, including the ex-Prime Minister, Arthur Balfour, the kind of connections he's got now. Yeah.

That means that he was in London in 1914. Oh. And it was here that he finally managed to fill that hole that he found inside him. That aimless kind of figuring out, what do I do with my life now? Ah, now there's something he can do. He started organising for American citizens to get on ships back home as the war broke out. They were struggling to get home and book passage. So he started handing out loans to people and organising where they could go on ships.

He claimed he was authorised to do this by the United States government. That simply wasn't true. But no one was about to stop him from organising various businessmen into doing something that needed to be done. And soon enough, the groups of businessmen were organising events and paying for travel for people who needed it. Again, volunteer work in the private sector is the way forward. Eventually, the United States Embassy gave him a half-official nod to tell him, yes, carry on.

You know what? You're doing a good job. But he very much elbowed his way in there. He was never asked to do it. And there you go he did it the job was done uh most american citizens that wanted to get back home were going back home so he booked his passage back home himself on the lusitania oh don't worry we're about half a year away okay yeah i did exactly that whilst reading it it's like oh dear it's like oh no no no it's fine but anyway he didn't actually get on the boat which is in a way in front of the year

in a way it would have been such a better story if it was the voyage that sank because he would have he would have dodged death at this point but uh no that's not the same voyage uh yeah he didn't get on melissatania because he was called to the US embassy. There was a growing humanitarian crisis in Belgium, he was told. The Germans had taken the country, but they would not use their limited resources to feed the citizens.

The British, in turn, were refusing to lift the blockade that had been set up. So people were going to starve now the british had said to be fair to them that uh if the united states oversaw the food distribution as a neutral party they'd be willing to lift the blockade but only under those conditions with both sides refusing to budge and with 70 of their food no longer being imported millions of baojams were about to starve to death yeah so could you sort that out for us hoover if you could that would be splendid he did didn't he bloody sorted it well before we get into that why why hoover why was he

picked uh wealth yep um he also spent his time proving he likes to help people. He knew this was coming up, didn't he? Him sending people back was him proving he could do that kind of thing. Yeah, you get the impression he was making sure he was in the right place at the right time. Yeah. Just in case something came up. Yeah. On the off chance.

He's investing in his self. He's investing in his own name, isn't he? Yeah, he's got the connections. He's got the wealth, like you say. He's in the right place at the off chance. He's investing in his self. He's investing in his own name, isn't he? Yeah. He's got the connections. He's got the wealth, like you say. He's in the right place at the right time. He knows the British government really well. He knows governments from all over the world because he does business with them all the time. He was the perfect man for the job, according to many, certainly including Hoover himself,

because he was now the chair of the Commission for the Relief of Belgium, or Relief in Belgium, sorry, the CRB, as it was known. Hoover was told that Belgium had approximately two weeks maximum of food reserves before people start dying, so he needed to have something set up by them. He would have to raise at least a million dollars, buy tens of thousands of tons of food from all around the globe, organize them into specially marked ships, and then plan the routes through the Netherlands, through worn, torn Europe, to deliver to the starving Belgians. You've got two weeks off you go.

He bloody does it, doesn't he? Well, he left the meeting immediately, realizing with time differences that the Chicago Stock Exchange was still open put a call through and put in some orders for foodstuffs. Not just from America all over the world in fact. Very rapidly he ordered five times the amount that he could afford to pay for just trusting that he would be able

to raise the extra money. How hard can it be to raise money? He's done it all his life. And he was right. He did did he raised the money so that was fine uh the crb although officially not recognized by any country because it's tricky diplomatically yeah uh america were neutral which is always something i forget when i look at world war one it's like they genuinely were neutral at the start they don't really want to be getting involved they're willing for someone to be doing it unofficially on america's behalf and that was

good enough for britain and other countries so yeah not officially recognized what's the crb but it was soon operating to some extent all across the globe including including in war-torn Europe, where it commandeered railways, 500 canal boats, numerous factories. In fact, one member of the British Foreign Office described the CRB as, and I quote, a piratical state organized for benevolence. They've gone rogue, but for good. Now, the only way to actually do this, of course, is to get tacit approval from all the countries involved. Therefore, Hoover was in the unique position in the world where he was pretty much the only private citizen in the world negotiating with leading politicians from the British, German, French, Belgian, Dutch governments, etc., etc. Wow. In fact, he was successful enough with the Germans to get an unconditional passport

through newly occupied lands. He could just travel through there. Not all in Germany were pleased that this American was sorting out the humanitarian crisis while European leaders waged war. For example, the new governor of Belgium did not like Hoover one bit, felt he was muscling in on the land he was now occupying. He openly opposed Hoover's strategy to feed the Belgians. Hoover simply went over his head and went directly to Berlin and got support. So there were German governors being told, no, listen to Hoover. Eventually, however, of course, as is always the case with Hoover, eventually however of course as is always the case with Hoover

lots of people start to get very fed up with him not just German governors there were many British leaders who were soon sick to the back teeth of him the current first lord of the Admiralty for example a certain Winston Churchill was very angered

at the notion of the blockade being weakened in any way and he called Hoover and I quote a son of a b***h very angered at the notion of the blockade being weakened in any way. And he called Hoover, and I quote, a son of a bitch. Incidentally, this was yet again one of those moments where I went, oh, wow, look how modern we're getting now. It's like, oh, look, Churchill's popped up.

We're really starting to get modern. And it's not just European leaders who Hoover was annoying. Pretty much any US politician in Europe soon grew to despise the turmoil that Hoover was creating. The US ambassador in Belgium wrote that Hoover was, and I quote, always trying to force blackmail to frighten people into doing things his way. What a bully! And by all accounts, Hoover was exactly that. He was a bully. He hated anyone disagreeing with him. His word had to be final, and he had no time for anyone else's ideas.

Because of this, what he did was very streamlined. Things got done incredibly quickly and efficiently, and it got done successfully. See, that should be on the T-shirt when you want an autocracy. It's like, see, it streamlines, it's efficient. efficient yeah he may have been disliked by almost all politicians in europe's from all sides of the war uh both sides and the neutral sides uh but he was recognized as a necessity and of course to the millions of families who were not starving to death because of him he was justifiably a hero yeah okay you wouldn't want to work for him but he puts food on the table so there him, he was justifiably a hero. Yeah, OK, you wouldn't want to work for him, but he puts food on the table, so there you go.

He was critiqued by those he worked with him for being cold-hearted. In fact, I quote, From his words and his manner, he seemed to regard human beings as so many numbers. Not once did he show the slightest feeling. Get the impression that he was told to do the job and he was going to do the job well damn it

but he didn't really care about the people involved they're just spreadsheets yeah exactly he would have loved he would have loved an exile spreadsheet you know he would have done oh he would have done yeah he was born in the wrong year

but again to reiterate the point I just made to the people who now had food in their bellies they did not care if the man in charge knew their names or not, or saw them as a number or not. They were fed, so therefore they were happy. At the peak of the operation, Hoover was feeding nine million Belgians and French people a day. He was hailed as the great humanitarian of the age. And if there's one thing that Hoover himself got out of the war, it was the firm belief that private and volunteer work could overcome literally anything whatsoever, and could do far better than any government could. Well, he's proving it. Yeah, he's proving it right now. As historian

Lechtenberg points out, this, however, is a distortion of history. He might have proved it in his eyes, and he proved it to many people who wanted to believe it. But the CRB may have been set up as a private endeavour to circumvent the bureaucracies of government. But it was unofficially backed by the government. That's why it was created. And more importantly, it was actually financed by them. $12 million a month was needed to keep the operation running.

$10 million a month came from the British and French governments until the United States entered the war in 1917. And then almost all of the $12 million came from the United States government. So pretty much all the money actually was the government's money being given to a private volunteer enterprise to just streamline things. In Hoover's mind, however, it was his volunteering to lead the CRB that meant that the funds were raised. It didn't matter where the funds came from, they were only there due to his private endeavour. Now, this might not seem hugely important right now, it might seem like I'm nitpicking slightly, but it's important to know this mindset of his to make sense of next

episode, when another global crisis hits. Ah, yes. Anyway, back to what Hoover's actually doing. Because the United States, as I just mentioned, entered the war in 1917. Hoover got to the point where he no longer felt like he was needed in Europe. His work had made his name internationally well known. The CRB was working efficiently, so he started to think about what he wanted to do next. Now, bearing in mind everything I just said about him thinking that the government could and should not take a lead in aiding citizens, he decided that he should be given a cabinet job by Wilson, the president. Now this might sound strange, and it took me a while like i said earlier to get a

handle on hoover whilst doing the research because like i say he keeps doing things that seem contradictory to to the image you might have of him this is one of those times however i think like i say i've got i've got the grasp on him i'm not going to explain it just yet but just keep keep thinking what's he about um i don't want to influence your thoughts. But just know, after establishing it very firmly in his head that private endeavours are definitely the way forward, he starts looking for a top government job back in the United States. Now, to be fair, this wasn't a one-way street.

Wilson's government recognised the potential of having Hoover work for them to become the so-called food czar for the United States if they entered the war. Hoover let it be known that he would do the job, but only if he had full control. He would not be restrained by the politics. So in May 1917, Wilson announced that the newly created food administrator position would be filled by Hoover. Hoover, however, did not wait for Congress to actually create the position legally i mean wilson couldn't just create this out of thin air it had to go through congress but hoover didn't care he headed back to america he set up an office and he recruited staff

the red tape would sort itself out he's got a job to do it was organized that his funding to begin with would actually come from the president discretionary fund so he didn't even have to wait for congress for funds so he didn't have to dip into his own pocket he just got given cash yeah to go and set up even though it wasn't technically a job yet would it be still seen as like a private enterprise until it's well no because he is officially employed by the government but you can see in his head how he'd be thinking i'm doing a favor for the government yeah but just let me get on with it he did refuse to be paid for it really yeah so you can definitely see it's like it's a volunteer job that he's doing he's technically employed by the government but

he's not taking any wages i yeah it does it does fit with his mindset hoover's job was like his last one both incredibly simple but insanely complex at the same time he had to make sure that the united states was making enough food to feed themselves and the soldiers in europe without damaging the united states economy all this whilst the world was going through a food crisis and the economy was tanking yeah simple yeah now hoover despising governmental intervention, decided against rationing. He wasn't going to support the government telling everyone what to eat.

Instead, he would rely on a volunteer force made up of no less than half of all America. Children. No, not children. He was going to get the women of the country on his side, and they would do the work. Like through suggestive

advertising, that kind of thing. Oh yes, a huge, huge propaganda drive was created. Half a million housewives were recruited to go door to door to spread the word. Patriotic women did not waste food. Do you want to support your husband? Then cook him sensible meals.

No meat on tuesdays no wheat on wednesdays those kind of messages so you just have groups of women knocking on your door trying to essentially shame you into doing the right thing in fact this worked so effectively the word hooverize came to mean to cut back the common lexicon of the time children were taught songs at school about the importance of food. Clergymen were recorded preaching the merits of food conservation. Posters, obviously posters, went up everywhere. Don't help the hun at mealtime is an example of one of them.

You can imagine, though, if you're living in, like, Wyoming, but we're nowhere near Germany. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. So how do you instill that sense of a need that actually we do need to do something and this was what Hoover was pushing for. He established local branches of the administration throughout the country to be ran by volunteers

rather than having everything run from Washington. Let's make small little hubs of volunteer workers. This made it fully democratic in his eyes. He was very pleased with the idea. The common man without the government's help was sorting out the food crisis. Obviously, however, real life doesn't quite work like that. If you give out volunteer jobs, then that just means that the rich people throughout the country would be the only ones who could actually afford to spend their days doing it yeah um yeah so a rural area full of farmers for example the only person who would be able to volunteer to run the department of how the food would be distributed would be the rich

banker who happened to be nearby now this in itself didn't cause a problem the rich banker who happened to live nearby was able to do the job perfectly well. But again, it does highlight that Hoover did not necessarily see the world as it was. He saw himself leading a government department, giving jobs to those rich enough to be able to not be paid, as an example of the common man helping themselves. And it's just not quite how it was. Now, Hoover as per usual was going into overdrive to achieve what needed to be done. Once more his ideas were final and swiftly enacted. Now this was everything from large-scale things on distribution to the whole country to dictating

how much non-wheat flour bakers could use or whether a restaurant could keep sugar on the tables uh yeah we go into micromanaging here nanny state level again yeah you've got that contradiction uh of hoover despising a big government and yet when he's in there oh wow is he big government but he's organizing he likes to organize again we'll get into that in a bit uh Also, in typical fashion, Hoover saw the law as more of a guideline, really. The Senate had made it very clear that his department could not buy or sell sugar. That was just one thing he could not do. But Hoover did so anyway in order to hold sugar prices down when he thought it would help the country out. So he just ignored laws if he didn't like them.

Fair enough. He fined retailers who were being, and I quote, unreasonable, despite having no authority whatsoever to hand out fines. He also threatened millers that if they did not sell at the price that the government told them to, he would seize the mills. The mills must make, and I quote, victory bread or clothes, was the message that he gave them well it's almost anti capitalist is not well again again we're talking the huge contradictions of who yeah he's rob a mine owner and now he's threatening to nationalize the mills yeah this was yet another action that I found really weird and it took me a while to get my head around it i'm hoping it will click with you like it did with me at some point because then it

suddenly all becomes clear i've got a thought in my head but i'll leave it well we'll save it to the end and then we'll discuss anyway just like in europe uh he made far more enemies than he made friends politicians in both parties grew very weary of hoover's. He would lie, bully, and force his plans through with very little regard to what other departments were doing. And also, just like in Europe, he was incredibly successful. He got stuff done. By this time, it had become very clear in Europe just how much Hoover had achieved. So he starts getting thousands upon thousands of letters from people in Europe thanking him for everything he'd done. In the United States, it was becoming clear that the fears over a food crisis was not

going to materialise. There was no food riots. And in fact, $1.4 billion of food had been exported to Europe. I mean, he'd just done very well. It's impossible to argue anything other than the fact that he was successful. Very successful. Hoover gave his credit to his army volunteers. I'll quote him, there is no power in autocracy equal to the voluntary efforts of the people. Although he did let the mask slip one time when he told a congressional committee that the reason why he succeeded was that democracy had been willing to, and I quote, yield to dictatorship, which he said in a committee. Yeah. Anyway, then the war ends.

Hoover wanted to keep the Food Administration going. I mean, it was his department. He'd created it from nothing. Of course, he wanted to keep it going. Congress were less keen. In fact, it was decided by Congress that perhaps Hoover should, I don't know,

go somewhere else. Back to Europe. Yes, Europe. There's still starving people over there, Herbert. Why don't you go back to Europe and sort the mess out over there? He just shouted dictator and left the room. Well, again, we see a similar story. There were an estimated 400 million people

facing food shortages in Central and Eastern Europe at this time. So Hoover was put in charge of the renamed Food Administration, the American Relief Administration, with a remit of providing food for all those in trouble. Hoover was able to put all the United States' sudden surplus of food to good use. Obviously, the United States had been producing a surplus for quite a while now, and it was no longer needed. You can't put the brakes on that immediately.

Aha, it's fine, let's ship it all off to Europe, and I'll organise feeding the starving people over there. So, he sends the food halfway across the world, and he goes along with it. He spends half a year in Europe, generally annoying the hell out of people and feeding people, depending on who they were. He, at times, would have held food from entire countries until they sorted themselves out. You get some historians suggesting that actually this stabilised Europe faster than would have been possible because any radical governments that started to spring up, left or

right wing, were basically told not now otherwise Hoover won't give us the food. Now Wilson, of course, still president, he's in Paris discussing the peace terms and Hoover made some suggestions. He advised the president that if europe did not support wholly the 14 point peace plan they should leave europe and i quote lock stock and barrel now after a whirlwind five months of organization across the continent he boarded a ship for home announcing that he hoped he would never see the continent again the whiny little yeah again it's just he's there working his hardest to save the starving people of europe yeah he can't stand the place no no which does feed into that idea that he saw it as a job and he was going to do the job well yeah i guess he's got the impression of you know going

from the new world back to the old world and seeing it almost like a third world country they're there just arguing everything's horrible it's like he wants to go back to america understandably on the political topic of the day hoover announced that he fully supported the league of nations yet again what what nothing he's done so far indicates this. It surprised some. Hoover did not seem the type to allow anything to add regulation to America's law and economy. That's what he's been doing, though. Not to the US, but he's been imposing it in his own brutalistic way to the country. You see, now you're starting to get to the same conclusion I did, I think.

You're starting to get to the same conclusion I did, I think. Hoover, in typical fashion, didn't support the League of Nations due to any political, philosophical or moral reasons, like Wilson did. Hoover just realised that the quicker that the League was formed, the quicker Europe would be able to get back to work and therefore things would tick along much better. As ever, it's all about efficiency. How do we get the job done as quickly as possible and as efficiently as possible? Sod the human impact.

And then Hoover suddenly realised that he had nothing to do again. The war's over. The war had given him purpose. It had made him one of the most famous men in the world. He very justifiably was held up as a hero to millions of people. It's really weird because I've always been interested in World War I in particular and the aftermath as well. Yeah.

I've never heard of Herbert Huber. No, I'm guessing, and American listeners, please let us know, I'm guessing this is us suffering from European bias. Yeah. I'm guessing if you're America, you're very aware that Huber was very involved in things post-World War I. But no, this is all new to me. Like, completely new. I knew about Wilson's involvement, but I had no idea Hoover was doing this. But still, he's got nothing to do now. In fact, he says at this time,

I don't want to just be a rich man. So he goes back to that idea of, well, what do I do with my life? He toyed with the idea of creating a mining school. Then he toyed with the idea of becoming a newspaper publisher. But nothing really takes his fancy. And he was floundering around for ideas when the next election comes up. His name was actually being bandied around as a candidate for president. Not just by Democrats, because remember, he'd worked in Wilson's Democratic government, but Republicans as well. Now, Hoover had made enemies in both parties, but a politician loves nothing more than public support,

and the public loved Hoover. They viewed him as a hero. The party that could get Hoover on side, well, I mean, they could do things with that, couldn't they? Oh, yeah. Also, progressives in both parties really liked some of the things that Hoover had been saying recently, including agreeing with a hike in taxes on the rich

and that industry must be humanised and not regarded merely as a cost of production. Hoover suddenly starts saying some very progressive things, siding with workers' rights. Yeah. Yeah, again. It makes perfect sense. Bear in mind that some people change. Not everyone.

Lots of people have very similar views all their life. But years have gone by since he was overseeing the mines in Australia. Decades have passed by this point. There is a very good chance that he has fundamentally changed his opinions, slowly over time, but that doesn't come through in the history books it just seems quite sudden especially when you're condensing it down into an episode like this he has not changed at

all no no he hasn't changed at all no he he does what he needs to to get what he wants to control a situation oh you see that's not quite where i am with him but again that's what the vibe i'm No, he does what he needs to to get what he wants, to control the situation. Oh, you see, that's not quite where I am with him. But again, at the end. That's what the vibe I'm getting. We'll discuss at the end. Yeah. But yeah, Hoover wasn't interested in politics, however. He never had been.

He'd done very well during the war. But he realised that the war had made his experience atypical. He knew enough about politics to realise that he wouldn't be able to just set up his own department and run it however he liked, with no oversight, which is essentially what had happened before. However, he did like the fact that there was a large movement of people talking about him becoming the president.

It's always nice for a bit of an ego boost. Oh, yeah, of course. Now, his interest in that was taken as interest in general, and both parties courted him hard. Republicans thought Hoover was a natural Republican. After all, Hoover had grown up a Republican. A Republican area, surrounded by Republicans. He supported Theodore Roosevelt's Progressive Party.

He had howled his nose and worked with the Democrats, but he'd not enjoyed it. He was a Republican at heart. The Democrats, however, had a different view. Hoover was a Democrat. He had, after all, just worked very closely with the Democratic president in the Democratic cabinet. Of course he's a Democrat. However, a large number of Democrats, particularly those who had worked with him, were less keen on getting him on board. Wilson himself, in fact, said, I have a feeling that he would rather see a good cause fail than succeed if he was not at the head of it. Still, as Hoover warmed to the idea of perhaps getting into politics, as more and more people were convincing him it was a good idea,

one thing became very clear. The Republicans were going to win the next election. Now, Hoover's not about to hitch his horse to a losing wagon. So in March 1920, after lots of public speculation, he announced that he was indeed a Republican. Sort of. In fact, I'll quote what he stated. Brilliant. If the Republican Party, with the independent element of which I am naturally affiliated, adopts a forward-looking

liberal constructive platform on the treaty and on our economic issues, and if the party proposes sound business administration of the country, and is neither reactionary nor radical in its approach, and is also backed by men who undoubtedly assure the consummation of these policies and measures, I will of course give it all my support. Caveat after caveat after caveat. Oh yes, as one reporter in the New York Times put it, and I'll quote, Mr Hoover tells the Republican Party he would like to belong to it if it was the kind of party with which

he would like to belong, and that if he belongs to it, he would have no objection leading it. Which is a brilliant summing up. Yeah. Yeah. The GOP, after this, half-heartedly accepted their new member.

That's amazing. I'll quote one leading member. Hoover gives most of us goose flesh. Still, as we've seen, Harding won the next election and the Republicans were back in power. Harding offered Hoover the Secretary of Commerce job, described by his predecessor as, and I quote, putting the fish to bed and turning on the lights around the coast.

It was not a big job. It was a, oh, go and have this and just put your feet up kind of job. Maybe, maybe you can do something in the future, or maybe this is a punishment, but it's not a rising star job. So you're right, he'd be good as a foreign secretary, surely. Well, it might not have been seen as a big job, the Secretary of Commerce. However, Hoover saw it as a huge opportunity. He would be the Secretary of Commerce. But he would be what he thought the Secretary of Commerce should be, not what it was right now. And that meant that any bureaus from any other department that he considered to be part of commerce should and would be given to him. Wow. That meant business, agriculture, labour, finance, foreign affairs.

In other words, Hoover made it very clear he was going to do things his way. And here we get yet another contradiction of Hoover. Like, I've made it clear his views on government. He believed less governmental intervention, the better. Yeah. Small government, no regulations, etc. But as we've seen with other areas, it turns out that this wasn't born from any philosophical or political beliefs. This wasn't some overarching belief that he held about government.

It wasn't that Hoover necessarily believed that governments should not interfere with people. It was more that governments should not interfere with him. If he was the government and it made things easier to get done, then he was more than happy to build up the government. Now, this went against everything in Harding's government. If you remember the last two presidents we've covered, the government is being slimmed down as much as possible. The birth of the modern Republican Party is happening.

Small government, less bureaucracy. Hoover, meanwhile, was in that government building up his own personal empire. He'd set up several brand new bureaus, one of aeronautics, one of radios, one of housing, one of foreign and domestic commerce, which was an excuse for him to send agents to cities all across the globe to conduct censuses of market behaviour. In other words, he wanted a bit of a foreign office kind of thing going on. So he just made up a bureau for it.

But when he wasn't creating bureaus, he was simply taking them off of departments, including mines from the Department of the Interior. So he's now in charge of all the mines. I guess he could class into commerce, though. Well, yeah, exactly.

Custom statistics from melons treasury i mean it's an exciting department but i have wild christmas parties well uh as you can imagine yeah the government's slimming down and everyone's trying to to get rid of their bureaus but no one likes to give up power and very quickly hoover had burnt any bridges that he perhaps had in Harding's government. He soon became known as Secretary of Commerce and Undersecretary of all other departments. He opposed Harding and then after Harding's death, because we've reached the point when Harding suddenly dies, he also oppidge's interventions in Central and South America. Businesses, according

to Hoover, should be more responsible. They should not take risks if it meant that if they failed that risk, armed intervention would be needed. So there's a very sensible view from Hoover there. Yeah. But goes completely against what Harding and Corlidge

believed. In fact it continues because Hoover believed that the cycles of boom and bust were actually awful. He argued that the current government should be doing more to cushion the blow of the inevitable crash. It's going to happen at some point surely. No it's not. Everyone's being very optimistic but yeah whenever it happens we should probably put something aside for it it won't happen look how much money i was raking in well opinions like these did not make him popular with most leaders in the gop at the time and then the great flood of 1927 happens oh yeah the one that calvin did nothing with yes exactly as covered in coolidge's episode the president

was not one for the federal government getting involved. But as we know from Hoover, this is his bread and butter. He sprang into action. Hoover went into overdrive to sort the problem out. Hundreds of people were dead. Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced. Food shortages were rife. Countless damage to property.

And all this just seemed easy to Hoover. I mean, he dealt with a lot worse. So let's get this sorted, he said, slapping his hands together. He toured the area. He organized. He went from town to town and told them to expect refugees within the hour. You need to prepare for them. They're not coming in days and weeks.

You need tents up. You need hospitals. You need food ready for them. You need water ready for them. They're not coming in days and weeks. You need tents up. You need hospitals. You need food ready for them. You need water ready for them. You've got five minutes. Yeah, you've got five minutes. I'm off to the next town to tell them the same. Get yourself sorted.

He started a fundraising campaign that raised $17 million almost immediately. He created 150 tent cities. As a vast proportion of those impacted came from black communities, Hoover also asked the Red Cross to employ more black people and also make sure that these rumours that were spreading of black people being restrained against their will in these camps had no truth to them.

All in all, we see Hoover doing an amazingly good job. Once more, his organisational skills are fantastic. He's getting it done. Unfortunately, we then see the negative side of Hoover pop up once more. When a representative working for the NAACP, a man named Morton, reported back that actually it's been looked into and there were black people who were being forced at gunpoint to work at repairing the levees a very dangerous job yeah and at least a few would be murdered by soldiers

forcing them to do the work hoover became very angry he forced morton to rewrite the report he would not allow anything to tarnish the good news story of countless volunteers coming together to repair the damage of the flood. This was a success story. He wasn't going to let it be ruined by a few bad apples. Yeah. So once again, he proved himself to have no peer when it came to large-scale organisation, and his work during the flood propelled him as the forerunner to the next Republican convention. Coolidge had announced that he would be stepping down, or at least that he wouldn't run again,

and there was only one man seen who could replace him. Most in the party did not like him, but they could all see that they would win with him, and he was very popular in the country. So Hoover was nominated in the very first round. It's unusual. Unusual, yeah. Campaigning began. Hoover was nominated in the very first round. It's unusual. Unusual, yeah. Campaigning began.

Hoover was very optimistic. I'll quote him. We shall soon, with the help of God, be in sight of the day when poverty will be banished from this nation, he claimed. He had to say it quite loudly because the irony gong was just being bashed away in the background. But he sort of... Just getting cracked with the... Yeah, but he shouted very loudly. And also, to be fair to him,

unlike almost all politicians, I'm fairly sure he probably believed what he was saying. He probably genuinely believed he would be able to wipe out poverty rather than just saying it because it sounds good. It was a very straightforward campaign. The economy was still doing well at this point. College had been popular enough in his own way,

as we covered, and Hoover was seen as as an improvement on this so the election came and it was a landslide once more he's received 21.4 million votes against the democrats 15 million Wow. The Electoral College, 444 seats to 87. Whoa! Oh, yes. We're talking full landslide here. Is that the biggest gap we've seen? No. Washington got all.

But it was slightly different back then. Yes. Yeah. Off the top of my head, I think this is the biggest landslide we've seen for the time modern American politics. If not everyone liked the new president elect, practically the entire country agreed that

he would be a capable one. Even if you didn't agree with him or personally like him. Hoover did have one fear, however. I'll quote. What I fear is the exaggerated idea that people have conceived of me. They have the conviction that I'm some sort of superman, that no problem is beyond my capacity. However, if some unprecedented

calamity should come across the nation, I would be sacrificed to unreasoning disappointment of a people who expect too much. That doesn't bode well for the future. And that's where we'll leave it. Hmm. So there you go. What do you think of Hoover? Do you know what?

Normally I write notes on all the presidents. This time I've written key words of what I thought of his personality. So I'll go through my thought process, if that's okay, if we've got time to do so. Yes, yes, we have. Very quickly, I'll list the words I said. My first one I wrote was, ulterior motives is the first one I had.

So he did everything with something else in mind, a goal, opportunist, ambitious, building his own stock for the future, a puppet master, he just wanted to control and I put control in big capital letters. Yeah, okay. And I went down and said, maybe he just wants impact,

he wants his life to be meaningful. Yeah. And then I then i thought well maybe he's always want to be president like that's always actually been his goal but it's you know he's done things to yeah to okay he's built his stock over time then i thought maybe he's just he was just always bored he just wants it always wants to challenge and push himself but then i thought has he just always chosen his own narrative for everything that's my last thought it's like because he said like you know people think this of me but maybe that's not him and now he's gonna be president he's in the the limelight and he won't be able to hide as easily that was my thought process throughout the whole thing i i have really enjoyed researching hoover

the the most i have enjoyed researching a president for a long time. I mean, Roosevelt's story is obviously brilliant and Coolidge just had a weird personality so that made that interesting. But Hoover, I just wasn't expecting this. No.

Hoover's one of those presidents that I knew practically nothing about before I started looking into it. We've all heard the name. We've all pushed the name. Yeah. We've all pushed one around the house. But then I started reading. Not only has he got a fascinating life, you spend all your time trying to figure out who the hell is this man? Why does he keep doing these things that I don't expect him to do?

What's he thinking? And because of that, it made it interesting. It made it a puzzle that I wanted't expect him to do. What's he thinking? And because of that, it made it interesting. It made it a puzzle that I wanted to solve. And I was taking a break from my research a couple of days ago, making myself some food in the kitchen, and it suddenly clicked into place. The egg into the omelette.

It suddenly, it was like, oh, I understand him. It explains everything he did do you want to know my theory yeah go on hoover is a competent trump a populist he's a populist he has no big philosophy on politics he wants to be seen as doing well but he doesn't actually care about what he's doing he just wants to be seen as doing well, but he doesn't actually care about what he's doing. He just wants to be seen as doing well. However, the difference is he's incredibly good at organization. He is very competent at what he does. So when he puts his mind to stuff, he achieves it incredibly well.

So everyone around him who finds him insufferable, pretty much everyone hates him who works with him or for him. But because he's so efficient and he's so good at what he does, they put up with it. It explains everything he does. It explains why he hates the idea of big government and restrictions. It wasn't political for him. He just didn't like being told what to do because he wanted to do things efficiently and restrictions. It wasn't political for him. He just didn't like being told what to

do because he wanted to do things efficiently and quickly. When he became the government, he didn't keep that belief because the quickest and easiest way to get something done as the government is to just do it as the government. And so he uses that as well. He uses whatever he can to his disposal to get things done. And that's why he's very good at organization. He it works. And because of that, he has managed to propel himself to the point of being the president. Yeah, that's my theory on him. I would have three quarters agreed with you

until you told me about the point where he changed the report about the black people not getting treated nicely. There is then the fact that he's a massive racist just sprinkled on top. He's a nasty person. Well, the fact he hid the bad stuff and said, only show the good stuff.

Don't take this. But that's the image. That's that kind of... No, I suppose so. See the shine on my... But again, this is why I'm saying he's a competent Trump. I'd go with that. I think that's very astute. He wants everyone to see him as incredibly good at what he does. the shine but again this is why i'm saying he's a competent trump i i'd go with that i i think

that's uh he wants everyone to see him as incredibly good at what he does and he doesn't care how he does it um yeah so he will he is good at what he does yeah and that that's where the difference lies as we will see when it gets to trump's episode uh he has had a far less successful career than Hoover has. But I get the feeling if Trump knew history, then I am guessing he would really revere Hoover. I think Hoover would be someone that Trump would be amazed by because that's the kind of president he wants to be. He wants to be someone who goes in. He's not a politician. He's going to push everyone to one side. He's just going to get the job done. So there we go. That

is Hoover. And, to be honest, it's looking pretty good because Hoover can get the job done. And I would argue if, I don't know, America was about to hit one of the worst crises it ever has in its history, you could do a lot worse than having hoover in charge it's true

let's see how he does shall we oh that's not boding well and also listeners please don't message us saying if he does good or bad because i do see the messages and i don't want to know do you do you not know how it goes? No. Do you not? Oh, interesting. I'm imagining not well, I'll be honest. Right, well, there we go. Thank you very much for listening. Between now and next episode, if you're in America, I don't know if you've heard,

there's an election coming up that's linked to what we do. Yes, a presidential election. Oh. So, good luck with everything in the election. Yep, for whoever you're voting. Go and vote. Whether you're just, you know, don't be an idiot and go, I'm not going to, it doesn't make a difference.

Yeah, go, go, vote. Please, please do. I mean, in theory, it shouldn't make a difference to us in this country but it does it impacts the entire world yes it does so go go vote uh and i think i think what we'll do is we will record part two of hoover on thursday of that week yeah so we well yeah we're due to record it on the 4th, so we'll record it on the 5th. Yeah, let's push it back a day. Just so, I mean, the way things are this year,

it's probably not going to be cut and dry even by that point. But we'll have an idea, more of an idea. So, yeah. So, we'll see. Should be fun. Should be interesting. I've made a deal with Rob if well, if, you know,

I've said that what I think would happen if I'm wrong I'm going to send Rob a bottle of whiskey via Amazon. Excellent. Give Jeff Bezos some more money. That's part of my hard bag as well. I'm going to make it worth your while. Do you want to say what you think's going to happen?

I'm happy to. I think somehow Trump will continue being president. That's what I think will happen. Okay. I'm only saying that as well because... Oh, I'm not going to say why. I'm just going to say what I think. You think he takes it, okay.

I think he may. I'm going to say the opposite. I'm going to say it was unlikely he was going to win last time. That doesn't mean impossible. And he won. It was still unlikely that he was going to win. And I'm going to say it's even less likely he'll win this time. So it could happen.

But if I were to put a bet on it, I would say that he's not going to. And if I lose, I'll send a bottle of whiskey your way. Oh, sounds good. Yeah, let's do this. Don't forget to download us on Podbean and iTunes

and see us on Facebook and Twitter. Yeah, until next time. Good luck. Yes, good luck. Goodbye. Goodbye. This message comes to you from the Food Administration. Things have never been worse for the USA. It is up to you to save the nation.

Ah, Mr. Smith. Yes? You're throwing away that, Mr. Smith. Yes? You're throwing away that chicken carcass. Why? It's finished with. Are you not patriotic? Eat the bones. What?

Eat the bones. Okay. Ow. We will win this victory with the Kitchens of America. Ah, Mrs. Clemens. Yes? What are you doing with that sandwich? It's moldy.

I don't care. Use it to buff your shoes. Okay. Buff, woman, buff! I'm buffing. It's come apart. There are crumbs in my socks. The crumbs of victory. Ah, and here's Mr. Rogers from a farm in Iowa.

Hi. And I hear you grow wheat. Ah, I grow wheat, victory wheat. What do you think of the people that eat wheat on a Wednesday? Well, you know what they say. As my grandmother said to me, they need to be dragged into the street and executed. Excuse me? Either that or a couple of shots to the back. I thank you, Mr. Rogers.

That's very extreme for victory. And over here we have Charles Minthorn. Hello. Drinking a lovely glass of milk. No, sorry. It's gone off. It's gone

rancid? Yes. I've got to, you know, recycle it on the recycle tip. No, man, you must drink. Drink for victory. Drink for American soldiers. But it's gone all chewy.

Then chew. Chew for victory. Masticate for our soldiers. Okay. I don't like it. Roma, your country needs you. This message was approved by the Food Administration. In my head, that's probably about right.

I don't know. I have to ask my brother. He's down there at the moment. Is he in Perth, though? Oh, yeah, yeah. He's in the city part of Australia. Because when a lot of the Australians we met, they always mocked the people in Perth

as they're a bit weird. Really? Don't go to the West Coast. Fair enough. I don't know. I just know that Australia's a lot bigger than anyone realises it is. And it's almost all desert.

You can fit Europe in it. You can fit America in it. And Europe. As in the United States. Europe. The moon. Australia. Yeah, the moon and Australia are roughly the same size.

That's a little fact for you. So many Australian facts of where it could fit. Anyway, he's there, he's in Australia those who worked for sorry just going through puberty still