American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 35.1 John F Kennedy

Episode Date: September 26, 2021

Kennedy is one of the biggest names in US Presidential history. But how did he become the worlds youngest elected US president? Was it through hard work? Was it? or something else? Find out!

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, John F. Kennedy, part one. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington all the way up until Biden. This is episode 31. No, it's not. 35.1. Ooh, it's a biggie. It's JFK. Or John F. Kennedy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's a biggie. You know, I've heard of him.

I know some things about him. Oh, yeah, yeah. What do you know? Killed in 1963. You think he was killed? By... Oh, no. Series.

Episode two is going to blow your mind by oh what's his name I read it actually Stephen King did a great book Stephen King killed him yes

right okay yes it was his confession yeah no he did a great book it's got a date I think it's the date he was assassinated

like whatever the date was 63 1984 yeah that's the one and the clock struck 13 assassinated like whatever the date was 63 1984 and yeah that's the one and uh the clock struck 13 um and and um yeah it talks about somebody goes back in time to prevent it right okay and it's interesting i'm the guy that killed him i've got his name it's really uh don't tell me i'm not no don't me. I'll remember halfway through the episode.

Okay, okay. And I'll just shout it out at some point. But we're not getting into that, obviously, in this episode. No. No, but we will do, because obviously that's a big event. He is well dead in it. Yeah. Today we get all the way up to his presidency.

And then next week we'll do his presidency, which was cut short. Yeah, absolutely correct. Brutally. Yeah, yeah. Right, okay, but let's do his presidency, which was cut short. Yeah, absolutely correct. Brutally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. But let's do an intro, shall we?

Let's get this going. Oh, I know. A, okay. Yeah. Yeah. A vinyl record. Nice. Almost in slow-mo, slowly turning.

Yeah. But then. Oh, okay. Yeah. A cartoon frog. Yeah. Like Disney style, climbs onto it. Then the record starts to get a little bit faster, a little bit faster.

Then the frog sort of tries to hang onto the centre of the vinyl with his little fingers, hands, claws, whatever frogs have. And it gets faster and faster until you hear this really distressing croak. And then you hear it, you see it go... It gets flown off. Then you hear a very sad splat against the wall. And then cartoon blood splats the screen. JFK.

Got it, yeah. That's it. It's all done. You just did... This is your first intro, Jamie. Oh, how good is that? Yeah. So I just started going with an idea, sorry.

No, no, I like it. I think, I mean, I'm not sure what it represents of this life, but... We will make it fit with something. We will make it fit. It will fit in some way. I mean, I'm not sure what it represents of his life, but... It will make it fit with something. It will make it fit. It will fit in some way. Was he in the army? He was. Well, no, he was in the navy.

But yes, he was in the armed forces. Same thing. Just navy on water. Yeah. Army on water. Yeah, exactly. I was going to do an intro involving him being in the navy, actually. But no, we're going with Frog on a record.

Frogs, water. Yes. Yeah. It's all linked linked isn't it yeah okay right well thank you for the intro um i hope you're welcome i hope you're sitting comfortably let us begin because to understand the kennedys we actually need to start with the grandfather of john f kennedy oh grandpappy kennedy well grand Grandpappy Kennedy was actually PJ Kennedy. Pappy.

Yeah. PJ was born in 1858 into a poor family. He worked the docks, just like Bon Jovi, and he saved money. And with that money, he bought a saloon. And then he bought another saloon. I'm still laughing at this Bon Jovi thing. Sorry. He was there. It's not even Bon Jovi working on the docks, is it?

Who is working on the docks? It's about a family, isn't it? She works in a diner. Probably this family. It's because PJ worked on the docks. That's how it goes. I'm sure that's how it goes. Anyway, right, so PJ's working on the docks. He's saving money goes. I'm sure that's how it goes. Anyway, right, so PJ's working on the docks.

He's saving money. He buys a saloon, and then he buys another saloon, because what else are you going to do with your cash, apart from buy saloons? Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. It's a good source of income, I guess. Yeah, and then he bought a whiskey importing business.

Oh, what a guy. Yeah, and with a rapidity that makes you almost believe in the American dream, PJ went from a poor stevedore to a leading figure in Boston's liquor trade. And then, obviously, he got into politics and owned shares in the coal industry and in banks. So the Kennedys are on the up and up. That's true. What strikes me, though, and you sort of, i don't know whether you're suggesting earlier or not to be that rapid of a uh of a business person you probably have to not be the nicest i mean you're gonna have to do things perhaps you might be very fortunate i don't know but i get the impression that like to be that successful that quickly you have to do things

that may be shady or corners in some way or manipulate people, that kind of thing. You certainly don't end up on top that quickly by being the nice guy, that's for sure. No. No. That's why we're sitting here at the age in our 30s doing a podcast about presidents. Yeah. And not actually becoming president. Yeah.

Yeah. That's why. Yeah. Anyway, he's got another grandfather. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This's why. Anyway, he's got another grandfather. Yeah. Yeah. This is John Fitzgerald. That's a...

Oh, there we go. There we go. Hey! Yes. John Fitzgerald is his name. With the surname beginning with F. Which, you're surprised... His grandfather.

Yes, your surprise and happiness won't make sense to listeners because I'll have cut that bit we were talking about before, but I'll put it on at the end of the episode, so it's fine. Cut what? What are you on about? Oh, you'll find out later when you listen to the end. OK. Anyway, John Fitzgerald was known as Honey Fitz, so named because he had a sweet tongue, a silver tongue,

but that doesn't match the honey. He could sweet-talk people. He had the gift of the gab, is what he had. And he made a career for himself as a politician. The family were very well-respected and very wealthy, and Honey Fitz easily got into Congress and then became the mayor of Boston. So, yeah, the Fitzgeralds really high up there

in Boston society. So it's quite, we've already entered the political stages family already, haven't we? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got one granddad who is mayor of Boston, knows all the people in the political scene, and then you've got another granddad who is on the up and up and making lots of money. Anyway, back to P.J. Kennedy,

because P.J. Kennedy had a son called Joe, and Honey Fitz had a daughter called Rose. And Joe and Rose met one day. Hello, Mr. Joe. Yes. Why, hello, Rose, they said. That's exactly how it went. Now, Honey Fitz, or the Kennedys, is below the Fitzgeralds,

but Kennedys were new money. The Fitzgeralds were very much old money. So, yeah, he made it very clear that he would not bless any union between the two. But as we will see, that soon changes. Because we now focus on Joe. And Joe is the main reason why we've got to go back into the family. So this is JFK's father, Joe. Or Joe Senior, as we're going to know him for most

of the episode joe celia senior because they are senior yes yes because there's a joe junior coming up soon oh yeah um yeah joe chose an interesting figure let's uh let's say that and uh we we definitely need to know more about him to understand John. Joe was obsessed, utterly obsessed with two things. One, making money, and two... Can I guess a second? Go on then. Is it women? It is women.

It is very much women. He used to collect them and keep them in cages. Oh no! No, no. I hate it when that happens. I say something ridiculous. It something ridiculous like that's actually not that far from the truth no it's not that's that's probably far from the truth it's just i don't feel like i should have to say the word probably yeah anyway he was obsessed with making money living the american dream starting from the bottom ending up at the top he admired what his father had done. He wanted to go even further. However, he did have one thing that was going to set him back in his life, and that was the fact that he was a Catholic. Remember, this is a time

in America where Catholics really were viewed with suspicion in the United States. It's all the Church of England folk there that's doing it. Well, Catholics, they answer to the Pope don't they? So how could they possibly be loyal to the United States? And also obviously most of the Catholics were Irish. Yeah. The Irish were immigrants at this point. Yeah. Going over here building our railways. Yeah stabilizing our economy that kind of thing. People didn't like it. Being a Catholic at the turn of the century, it wasn't necessarily the best starting point if you want a career in politics

or just generally being successful. But Joe wasn't going to let that slow him down. It didn't stop him from going to Harvard because obviously his family were now rich enough he could just go to Harvard. When he was in Harvard, he started a tour company in his spare time. So he just started making money by setting up a tour business. OK.

So that's the kind of guy Joe was. Yeah. Then he graduated. He got a job in a bank, the one his father had shares in, so it was nice and easy for him to get the job. In a long story that I'm going to cut very short, a year and a half later, Joe was instrumental in stopping a takeover from another bank. I love the fact that one sentence you uttered was probably about an hour of reading. Oh, it was a lot of, I'm not

doing an episode on Joe. I'm not doing an episode on Joe. Yes, it's all interesting. Must skip, must skip. Yeah. Anyway, he saved the bank and the trust made him president of the bank in a way to say thank you. I'm simplifying this, but essentially what happened is at the age of 25, Joe Kennedy becomes the youngest bank president in the country. Oh, I couldn't have done that under the age of 25. I know, impressive stuff. At this time, he told a reporter he would be a millionaire before he was 35. He was right, wasn't he? Well, we'll find out.

So with all this good fortune, Joe was then able to become more respectable. Respectable enough, in fact, for Honey Fitz to eventually OK the union between him and Rose. So Joe and Rose get married. The next year, they have their first son, Joe Jr. So we've now got Joe Jr. and we've got Joe Sr. A lot of hopes were pinned on Joe Jr. I mean, both branches of the family are very ambitious. Honey Fitz only half-jokingly told reporters

that they'd already decided that Joe Kennedy would be president one day. Even if this was jest, Joe Sr. was not joking. He saw big things for his firstborn son. Even if this was jest, Joe Sr. was not joking. He saw big things for his firstborn son. He genuinely had decided in his head that Joe was going to be president. That's what he was going to do with his life. Really? Wow. Then, less than two years later, the second son was born,

this time named after Honey Fitz, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. I missed that you blacked out during the F, I didn't quite hear that. John Fitzgerald Kennedy. It keeps doing it. Is it the microphone, does it keep? I'm just hearing the F, but I don't hear anything else. Oh well, you'll have to guess what his middle name is then. Right. Franklin! Why not?

Joe Senior missed the birth of the son. He's too busy handing out cigars. No, he was being senior missed the birth of uh the son um the second busy handing out cigars no he was being elected to the board of massachusetts electrical board uh at the age of 28 rock and roll quite a prestigious position i mean getting there was actually yeah yeah getting there at 28 was uh no mean feat at all uh I mean, we have managed it. No, exactly. No, this was good. But it just doesn't sound very exciting, does it? No.

Anyway, World War I's going on by this time. So Joe gets it. Oh. Yeah, yeah. So what year are we in when he's born? You know what? I didn't write that down. It's a very good question.

Well, it's going to be between 1914 and 1918. I know that. I think it might be 16. Let's have a look.'ll say ah yeah it was 17 boom may of 1917 he was born uh you're gonna cut out my win aren't you yes that's exactly what i'm gonna do in fact i'm gonna put this in. I think it's 1917. Okay. What's the year before that? 1916. Oh, is that... Yeah, there you go. It's now going to...

I'm going to use you saying 1916. I'm going to swap it around. So what year are we in when he was born? Well, it's going to be between 1940 and 1918. I know that. I think it's 1917. 1916, I'll say. May of 1917 he was born.

Oh. F***. See, that is really weird, actually, because he died in the early 60s. That warps my mind slightly that World War I was going on. Yeah, I always... Cavalry charges were still happening. I know what you mean, because Kennedy always seems like such a young and modern president yeah so you you put him you put

him in your head in the 60s don't you and you don't think of world war one world war two yeah no that's i i did that with my research anyway where was where was I? Yeah, World War I's just started. Joe gets a job as assistant general manager of a steel shipbuilding plant, which is, again, all very exciting. The money wasn't very much for him anyway, but it gave him moral cover. Joe Kennedy wasn't about to go and throw his life away in a bloody war. He was going to make money. He's in a safe position because they need steel to make stuff.

Yeah, exactly. He can now say he's doing his bit for the war effort. So it's fine. Oh, and at the same time, he's making contacts. Many, many contacts. One of these contacts got him a job for stockbrokers, and he then just used insider trading and market manipulation to make a fortune. Should point out that nothing was illegal about what he was doing because it would be illegal today. What he

was doing is definitely illegal today. They just hadn't figured out that people could do that at this point and they hadn't made it illegal yet. So in my head, Joe is now the guy from Wolf of Wall Street. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. You can picture him. He's Leo. He's just... I'm seeing dwarf throwing in the office. He is soon a multi-millionaire. How old is he? He is... I think he's just turned 30, roughly, at this point. He did it. He said he would.

Now, at home, more children were being born, nine in total, to the Kennedys. Yeah, that was the sound. Ah! That's Mrs Kennedy. Yeah, yeah. The millionaire Kennedy, with his large family, soon started to become somewhat of a celebrity family in the country.

The Kennedys were now very, very rich. And look at this huge family. This is almost like Donald Trump, in a way. Yes, yeah. Donald Trump didn't make his own money. He borrowed it from his millionaire father. But the parallels are there, in a way. Yes, yeah. Except Donald Trump didn't make his own money. He borrowed it from his millionaire father. But the parallels are there, yes, definitely.

You've got a rich family. Although, as you'll see, it doesn't play out in quite the same way. But yeah, this is one of the leading rich families in the country. One of the reasons why they were so popular is because, I mean, after all, they appear to be the American dream realised. Look at all that hard work. And after all the hard work, here's a perfect family. Really big family where everyone's lovely and happy. How nice. But also, one reason why they were so popular with the public is that everyone knew they weren't really a big happy family. So you could gossip about

them as well. That's good, isn't it? A bit like the Clintons. Yeah, yeah, a bit like the Clintons. I'm guessing a bit like the kardashians i don't know look at me bravely wading into popular culture i haven't got a clue i know people like to watch tv shows about them and i'm guessing they're a bit of a mess as a family but i don't know kim kardashian she's won. She is, she is. That is all I can name. Don't they all start with K? Kelly Kardashian, Clive. Christopher.

Yeah. Kardashians, Totalus Rankium. There we go, we've got our next season. We'll do it, but we won't do any research. No, you just know people are going to say, yes, do that. No, we are not doing that. Anyway, you've got this. Yes, we will. Fourth week episode.

So you've got this big sort of happy family. But one of the main secrets, sort of open secrets that everyone knew about, was the fact that Joe was a serial womaniser. Like, ridiculously so. Constantly sleeping around, one of flings, but also having sustained mistresses with film stars. Sometimes Joe would just invite his mistress back to the family home to stay for a while.

Why not? How did the... Oh, I've forgotten her name. Rose. Rose. How did she feel? Not great. No, we a name. Rose. Rose. How did she feel? Not great. No, we wouldn't. Rose was very, very devout and very serious.

And she decided that her job was to raise the children and hope that the pain stops, essentially. Oh. Yeah. He will love me eventually. Yeah, I think she gave up on that. Sounds a bit like uh mad men now well i it gets worse when uh his sons were old enough to start bringing women back to the house he would openly try to seduce them i mean i'm not talking flirting here he would actively like wander the halls at

night seeing if he could maybe just uh capture one of them uh on their own just to see if he could just seduce them. He's not a nice person. Nay, nay, nay. Anyway, let's carry on, shall we? Young JFK, who shall be known as Jack for pretty much the whole episode because that's what everyone called him. Yeah, he got called Jack, didn't he? Yeah, because obviously John needs a shortening. So it's shortened to Jack.

He's gone from one syllable to... Yeah, it makes sense. So Jack was starting to realise that being the second son of this fabulously rich family was not actually necessarily a great place to be. Joe Jr, remember, being nearly two years older, had a natural advantage in all sibling rivalry. Height, weight. Well, yeah, exactly. Everything you get being two years older. But even if you could put their ages together, Joe Jr. was still everything a jealous sibling would hate. He was more athletic.

He was more academic. He was stronger. He was quicker. His jaw was slightly squarer. Oh. One day, the two rode their bicycles at each other, playing chicken. Like you do when you're siblings.

You're an only child, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Neither backed down. And as was typical, Joe just walked away laughing slightly, whereas Jack was on the floor kneading stitches. Yeah. Yeah.

And Jack also was very often a sickly child. You name it, Jack caught it. Bronchitis. Chickenpox. German measles. Non-German measles. Mumps. Scarlet fever.

Whooping cough. How? Some of that stuff isn't even around, is it? I guess, yeah. I'm thinking yellow fever. Yeah. That's a lot of stuff. Oh, yeah.

The scarlet fever in particular was very bad because obviously that can kill you off when you're small. Yeah, it can. Jack was spent to a specialist centre. Only 125 beds available in this centre. There was a queue of over 600 people waiting to get in. Oh. But somehow Jack managed to get a bed.

Yeah. Odd that. Not sure about that. In the suite. Yeah, a bit strange, but there you go. There you go. A little bed for little Jack. When not in bed, ill, little Jack was taken out to see baseball games with his grandfather, Honey Fitz.

He learnt how to swim in the private swimming pool. He generally led of a easy, nice, fun life. But the family did face some prejudice. Still, again, it's back to being Catholic. They just were not welcome in the upper crust of society as much as other families would be. In fact, Joe Sr. got so fed up with this anti-Catholic feeling in Boston, he decided to move the family to New York when Jack was about 10 years old. And then Jack was sent to a Catholic boarding school.

Oh, oh, oh dear. Yeah, it just doesn't sound fun, does it? No. You've got images of nuns sweeping down icy corridors. Like, very cold. It could be the middle of July in August. It's just like frost in the air. Now, don't forget, this is just a stereotype.

But also remember, stereotypes exist for a reason. That's because exactly, that is exactly what this boarding school was like. It was cold, it was miserable, none swept down the corridors kind of thing. Yeah, Jack did not like it. It was very severe. It was very cold. He was an average student.

Shall we call him that? That's what he was. He was average. That's what he was. Joe Jr., by the way, doing very well in his school. Really well. What school was he at? He was in a school called Choate,

which we will get to in a moment. Anyway, Jack mainly spent his time thinking about sports, because that's what he liked. He wanted to play games, he didn't want to study. Then the Great Depression hit. So 27 now. Oh yes, oh sorry, that's in his age. No, no, yeah, you're talking about the year. Yes, that makes sense. Yes, so now we're in the late 20s. And as you can imagine, Jack vaguely knew something about it, maybe. Not really. Didn't really affect him or the Kennedys. Nope.

No, in fact, I quote, I had no first-hand knowledge of the Depression. I didn't really learn about it until I read about it in Harvard. That's horrendously... I'm not going to say brilliant, but quite funny. Yeah, the Kennedys were too rich to be worried about depressions. Apparently the only thing... It's like we have real money rather than stocks. Yeah.

Apparently the only thing that they noticed any change whatsoever is that uh joe senior hired some extra gardeners one year just to give some people jobs but that's it that is it apart from that just didn't hit the sides anyway jack continued to to plod through school and then when he was at home with his siblings they had developed new heights of spoilt brattyness because they simply did not understand the concept of money. Money was just this thing that other people talked about. It just made no difference to them. I mean, they just, they simply didn't pay for things.

They'd take things from shops and they'd tell the shop, we're Kennedy's, just send us a bill, we're good for it. And that's probably true. Well, yeah, apparently the Kennedy's were obviously always able to pay, but sometimes they'd forget because money just wasn't that important to them. Local businesses near where they lived started getting a bit frustrated at the Kennedy children just sauntering in and just taking things. Yeah.

One story has the siblings on a hot day walking down from a pier and just shedding their clothes and throwing them on the ground. Someone will pick them up. Or not. Who cares? You can always buy new clothes, can't you? So, I mean, they literally, they just did not understand the concept of buying things and keeping things. And yeah, they were very rich. Anyway, after a year of being in the boarding school, a very depressed Jack asked to be transferred to the school his brother was in.

That is the Choate School. There's obviously an entrance exam for a school as prestigious as this, which Jack failed. I get the feeling that won't matter. Oh, no, it's fine. It's fine. I mean, you can still go in. It's fine. It's Kennedy. Of course he's getting in. But he did fail. But it's fine. It's OK. He got a placement.

All good. So for the next four years, Jack lived under the shadow of his superstar brother. Joe Jr. was doing well in everything. Jack started to feel quite resentful, a little bit annoyed. It did not help that he really starts to develop medical problems at this point that will plague him for the rest of his life. See, I didn't know that. No, no, this is...

I knew vaguely, but I did not realise how bad it was for JFK. Obviously, he had a very sickly childhood with that big long list of things, but yeah, it doesn't stop. Now, if I went into every time he ends up in hospital due to problems with his bowels or his back, this episode would become a long, boring list of him going to the hospital. Just know that throughout the rest of the episode, he's pretty much in and out of hospital,

dealing with things. Wow. Yeah. At the age of 16, he was losing weight so rapidly, it was suspected that he had leukaemia, which he didn't have, but it was that level of ill. He was tested a lot.

He wrote down, while he was a teenager, what it was like being tested so much. He wrote down, while he was a teenager, what it was like being tested so much. And I quote, my rectum is plenty red after the hospital. Yours would be red too if you had shoved everything from rubber tubes to iron pipes up it. When I crap, I don't even feel

it because it's so big. That's nice. That's nice, isn't it? He was prodded and probed a lot. They could not figure out what was wrong with him. That doesn't sound like prodding. That's definitely probing. Oh, yeah.

There was prodding as well. There was prodding and probing. Yeah. It was unpleasant. But it is said that he pretty much always faced all of this with a good attitude. A slightly fatalistic one at times where he'd just start to despair and think that he wasn't going to live to get past his mid-20s um but apparently he didn't wallow in self-pity too much yeah uh however he's

does it say what it was or was it just always a a load of things all the time it's um it's never been completely clarified what it is because a lot of treatments that he was having including huge doses of steroids and things uh just messed up things even worse so he had all sorts of symptoms going on and a lot of it might have been because of treatments he was getting. But he was well-hedged though, wasn't he? No, no, he really wasn't. He struggled to gain weight because he was so ill. But anyway, we'll get into that a little bit later. This time he wasn't that bad.

He just obviously wasn't good. He was well enough to be at school most of the time, and his parents started to despair over his lack of efforts in his studies. He just didn't seem to be concentrating. In fact, Jack even started the Muckers Club. The Muckers Club was a group of friends that decided to mess about or muck about instead of work. When Joe Senior was told that his son had created this messing about group, he wasn't happy at all. He went into the school to talk to Jack and the president of the school and obviously did not like what he heard.

But he also leaned over to Jack when the president of the school was interrupted by a phone call and said to Jack, if that crazy mocker's club had been mine, you can be sure that it wouldn't have started with an M. Ah! That's it. be sure that it wouldn't have started with an M. Ah. Ah. I don't know if you're horrified or... Admiring, almost.

Yeah. No, not admiring. No, not admiring. No. No. No. But it does tell you what kind of dad Joe Senior was. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Anyway, Jack finished 65 out of 110 Joe Senior was. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

Anyway, Jack finished 65 out of 110 in his year. So off to Princeton. Not quite the top half, but hey. Yeah, off to Princeton, off to one of the most prestigious schools in the country, obviously. Joe Jr. had gone to Harvard, and Jack wanted to be out of the shadow of his brother. So let's go to Princeton instead.

Yeah. However, over the summer, he went to England and travelled around Europe for a bit, just because he could. It was 1935, by the way. That's where we are right now. Ooh, OK. Yeah.

And then once back in the States, he soon faced another bout of illness and had to delay his start at Princeton. And by this time, he decided actually Harvard would be better. I've changed my mind. I want to go to Harvard. I'll just try and stay out my brother's way. I wonder why that decision was made. He had

friends who was going to Harvard, although he had friends who went to Princeton as well. Also, don't forget they're from Boston and Harvard. What? Yeah, so there would have been ties there. And also, trying to get out of the shadow of your brother's one thing, but you also want to prove that you're as good as your brother.

So, yeah, various reasons. But off to Harvard he goes. Once there, he continues to get mediocre grades. But eventually he finds that he has a talent. Okay, it's going to be two things. It's either a lovely personality as he can get on some other people, or it's

the ladies. You know what? You can have both. Yes. I'd even give you some ranking points, but I'm not allowed to at the moment. Oh no, come on. No. I promise not to give any ranking points, but I'm not allowed to at the moment. Oh, no, come on. No. No, I promise not to give any ranking points out. Can I get myself ranking points?

No, I don't count. If you're listening and confused, a lot of our listeners on our Discord server are listening to all of our back catalogue to figure out how many ranking points Jamie's got. And I promise not to give out any new ones until they've finished. So I was about to give you, Jamie, 2,000 Rankium points. Oh. Yeah, which probably takes you total up to 2010 or something. But no, I'm not allowed to.

I'm not allowed to. Two. But yes, no, he figured that he has a very charismatic personality, and you're absolutely right. He was very good with the ladies that's what he used to do when he walked into the room people loved it back then looked very confused it's not the 70s he seemed to be as shocked as anyone when he found this out i'll quote here writing to a friend i can't help it it can't be my good looks because i'm not much

handsomer than anyone else it It must be my personality. And sure enough, appears that it was something about his personality because soon enough he was treating and talking about women just like his father did. Oh. Yes. When he went to Stanford after finishing Harvard, so I'm flashing forward a bit here, but he came across female students for the first time and I'll quote him here. Women! I still can't get used to the co-ets, but I'm taking female students for the first time, and I'll quote him here. Women!

I still can't get used to the co-ets, but I'm taking them in my stride. I expect to cut one out of the herd and brand her shortly. Oh. Yeah. He slept around so much that he could not remember the names of the women he'd

been with, so he would often just refer to people as kid if he came across them again, because he just had no memory of what their names were. Even his regular trips to the hospital didn't slow him down, apparently. He often wrote to one of his friends about the nurses that he'd slept with there. I'm not going to repeat all of the many, frankly, objectionable ways that he talks about women but just know it's not great i'll give you a couple of first scenarios just so you get the idea though he wrote one day got the hottest neck out of hansen saturday night she was pretty good so i'm looking forward to bigger and better ones and uh one date around this time did not result in sex so he wrote the next time i take

her out she's going to be presented with a great hunk of raw beef, if you get what I mean. I'm guessing the friend knew what he meant. Take her to a steakhouse. Yeah, exactly. So he's picking up and dropping women as fast as he possibly can at this point, which is interesting because we've never come across this before. Not so obviously, maybe. I'm sure it's happened before, but this is the first time where is it in your face in the research because it's it's just so well documented we have definitely had womanizing

presidents before but it was all swept under the rug so to this day there's always this oh were they really weren't they no no jack just was he was a full-on womanizer one time when feeling particularly rough in the hospital and have and after having a large number of medical staff weren't they? No, no, Jack just was. He was a full-on womaniser. One time when feeling particularly rough in the hospital and after having a large number of medical staff probing his back passage, he wrote, of course, when the pretty nurses did it, I was given a cheap thrill. I was a bit glad when they had their fill of that, which is not nice. So essentially got a happy ending from a cull in a hospital. No, I don't think a happy ending. I think he just liked the fact that these attractive nurses were giving him attention.

Even if that attention was looking up his back passage. I took cheap thrill in a very different way. Sorry. Yeah, no, I think it is a case of he felt like he was in control of the situation. And he felt like people were looking at him and he liked the attention kind of thing i think that's uh that's what happened there see that's how fetishes start maybe um so it's getting to know the ladies all of the ladies that's what he's doing then it's 1937 so a break from studies he and his friend Billings took a car to Europe.

Which you can imagine the cost of doing that back then. He wouldn't. No, he didn't. But yeah, taking his car across Europe, well, across the Atlantic first, and then across Europe. I mean, it must be an amazing car. Oh, yeah, yeah. Water. Do you think it floated on top or it went underneath?

I think James Bond's. Yes, definitely. They took a James Bond car. That's what they did. water do you think it floated on top it went underneath i think james bond's yes definitely they took a james bond car that's what they did anyway they started in france did him and billings uh it did not impress the boys i'll quote here france is a primitive nation then on to spain and i quote very interesting but very cruel uh italy seemed better to begin with but the boys got tired of people trying to make money off them, so they left disappointed. Obviously, these two crazily rich Americans

running around in their sports car, people are going to try and make money off them. Of course you're high. Yeah. Anyway, where to next? We've done France, we've done Spain, we've done Italy. Germany. Off we go.

Oh. It's full of people, Heil Hitlering, which Jack and Billings found hilarious. They would copy the gesture and then turn it into a wave and just shout, Heil Hitler. At least they're mocking, yeah. Well, yeah. And Billings wrote that the whole race of Germans were arrogant and insufferable. So they were having a good time, as you can see. Yeah. And Billings wrote that the whole race of Germans were arrogant and insufferable.

So they were having a good time, as you can see. Yeah. They were just going from one country to the next, just going, this is horrible. But they were picking up on the political climate. They weren't completely immune to the fact that Europe was on the brink of war. They weren't idiots. They were asking people about it um jack started to get a genuine interest in the spread of uh fascism and communism and what was going on there he also became very interested in the civil war in spain and the strength of democracy in britain whether

it would be able to withstand a war all these kind of things he starts talking to ambassadors and reporters in various places because obviously he's the son of joe kennedy so he can just uh go and talk to important people why not uh so yeah eventually they go to britain to end their tour and uh you know what's a little bit better there they decided london had the kind of society that just reminded them of back home. Drinking. Just full of very, very rich, posh people. Oh, yeah. Because the bit of London

they saw was similar to the bit of America they saw back at home. Then they go up to Scotland and they just stay in a castle like you do. All very nice. All very nice. And then it's back off home. Jack was invited to one of the elite clubs in harvard now this is finally something he can be proud of because his father and his brother had

not been invited into this club oh yeah so this is bragging rights yeah he's got something now and as we've covered before if you're in one of these elite clubs in one of these these elite universities, well, that's it. Your life is sorted. I mean, your life was probably already sorted, otherwise you wouldn't get into the club. But yeah, you make contacts and that's it for the rest of your life. You're fine. You're absolutely fine. It was a sign, more importantly to him though, that he was finally moving out of the shadow of his father and his brother. And things keep getting better for the family because Joe Senior was approached by FDR. Could you be the ambassador to Great Britain? Our greatest ambassadorial role.

Yes, I can. Well, Joe Senior had spent a lot of money pulling strings to get FDR to ask him. So obviously, obviously he accepted. Do you think he just walked into his office, just like saunty, because he could, just walked into the Oval Office and said, offer me this position.

Here's a blank cheque, put as many zeros as you want. That would have been quicker and more efficient than what really happened, but essentially that's what really happened, yeah, yeah. Anyway, it's the summer of 38. Jack heads back to England, just the year after he left, this time to join his father and essentially the aristocracy of Britain. Because Kennedy was now the ambassador,

and that meant he moved in the highest circles, like the royal circles. So we're in George's sixth time now, aren't we? Yeah, yes. With Princess Elizabeth as well. Yeah, yeah. She was there. The Kennedys went with members of the royal family to the south of France to stay for a while in the summer of 38. This is how close to the

royalty they're starting to get. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, back to Harvard. So, back across the Atlantic again. But as soon as he was back, he was itching to go back to Europe again. That's where everything's happening. I mean, he'd become fascinated with the possibility of this war breaking out. Everyone's talking about this war. It was the first thing that genuinely seemed to interest Jack. And he wants to be over there to

see what's going on. Plus, all those parties his dad's having at the moment, hanging out with actual royalty. So he asked to speed up his studies so he could go to Europe and write his honours thesis. So let me get the work done quickly and then I'll go and do my big thesis over in Europe instead of hanging around here. Can I do that, please? He was asked one very serious question before he was allowed to do this.

Is your name Kennedy? Oh, it is. Yes, it is. Of course you can. Of course you can, Jack Kennedy. We have patchy bags for you, sir. So back to London he goes and then to Paris for a while because, after all, he's not on holiday. He's researching his thesis. Of course he is, yeah. Yeah. Yes, he wrote to a friend that he was living like a king. Whilst researching his thesis. Whilst researching.

He then went skiing for a week in Switzerland. A lot of research there. Lots of research. I mean, yeah, definitely. What was he studying? Well, I'll quote. I saw plenty of action, both on and off skis so i'll let you figure that out biology then biology definitely

physics that covers everything yes exactly uh then after skiing um and not skiing for a week, he then returned to Paris, where he was staying at the US Embassy, whilst also having a fling with the ex of the Duke of Kent, which he quite liked. Okay, nice. However, however, there is work to be done. So he tries to focus on some work. He heads to Warsaw in May of 1939. Warsaw, okay. Yes, where should I go in May of 1939? Poland sounds nice. Yeah, it sounds safe.

Let's go over there. So he goes over there. He speaks to various Nazi officials who just ask him, is his name Kennedy? And he says, yes. And they go, oh, OK, I'll talk to you. You're rich. Then on to Russia to talk to people there. He then heads down to Jerusalem and Athens and other major cities.

He generally just does a tour of Europe and the Middle East. He's having a lovely time researching, researching his thesis. Definitely researching his thesis. He was treated as a full VIP the whole way. After all, he was the son of the United States ambassador to Britain. So every US embassy he came along, well, I mean, they've got to treat him right, haven't they? Yeah. Tally-ho.

He gained access to the top officials of the governments of every country he visited and soon was gaining some very up-to-date and impressive knowledge of the unfolding situation in Europe. I mean, he's there. He's writing a thesis about the start of the war and he's literally going around Europe talking to the leaders of the countries

who are about to go to war. So when did he start panicking and think, I need to get out of here? He's a Kennedy. He doesn't need to panic, Jamie. Don't forget, when you're rich enough... Yes, people do that for him. When you get rich enough, you don't have to worry about things, because nothing bad can happen to you.

Anyway, he heads back to Western Europe at this point and goes on another tour, France and Germany. Things were getting a little bit tense here at this point, especially since he was driving around in a British car through Germany. Yeah. Various embassies were starting to really get fed up of this young, posh upstart dropping in on them because he had homework to do. I mean, they were supposed to stop everything and give him the VIP treatment.

They were busy trying to prevent a war or get ready for a war. It's something to do with a war anyway. The key word is war here. What do you mean you need to interview me for your homework? Who are you? In fact, one diplomat said here he had no official status. The idea that there was anything he could learn or report about conditions in Europe, which we had not already reported, seemed wholly absurd. That busy people should have their time taken up and arranging his tour struck us as outrageous. It is unlikely Jack noticed. Then Hitler invades Poland and Neville Chamberlain declares war on Germany. So finally it kicks off. But yeah, just know that Jack Kennedy is right there in the thick of it as World War II is kicking off. Joe Senior, obviously being the

ambassador to Britain, was also very much in the thick of it. And he had become very close to Neville Chamberlain. He really supported Chamberlain's appeasement policy and was devastated that the war began. He was astute enough to realise that this is going to damage any political career that he wanted, because appeasement now was seen as, no, we can't, appeasement was wrong. We shouldn't have done that. And Joe had very publicly supported the appeasement. Jack was sent up to Glasgow to help arrange US citizens' passage home on boats. His job was to reassure people and convince them that it's safe. The German submarines are unlikely

to attack you. You don't need a military escort. It'll be fine. Just get on the boat. You'll go quickly. It'll be fine. It's fine. All good. All good. Eventually, he convinces everyone to get on the boat and they all sail off. Jack then takes a plane back to the United States. Seeing the debris across the Atlantic. Ooh, look. Ooh, I was wrong. Hello, it's Ali here. War, F, no, what, what.

Well, once back in Harvard, Jack gets stuck into writing his thesis. All about Britain's policy of appeasement. By stuck in, I mean he met with the British ambassadors through his father's links, and he hired typists to get the thing written quickly. So it was his work, but he didn't sit there slaving over a typewriter. He just dictated, and he had a team around him, like your average student does. Is that how you do the podcast? Yes. If you're not wondering who all these people are behind me who was wondered but i know i was too scared to ask i keep staring very menacingly at the screen

their eyes rob their eyes always staring yeah they lost the will several years ago but they continue cold dead stares yeah anyway once this thesis was written two things became very clear number one jack kennedy was not a hidden academic genius who suddenly would produce an astounding piece of work uh it was how could you get spelling errors if you're dictating jack it's ridiculous well the work was as mediocre as everything else he'd done. That's not to say it was bad. There was nothing bad about it, but it wasn't amazing. It was true to the word of mediocre.

It was. It did the job it needed. It's like a spoon. The most mediocre of utensils. Exactly. It gets the job done. And sometimes it's what you want. Yeah, it's what you need.

Is this a go of all of the on? It's not a spork. No, exactly. Well, the second thing that became clear is that Jack had first-hand knowledge of something that very few people had. And just because it was not academically brilliant didn't mean that it wasn't a good read.

It was readable. It was fine. And in fact, if you take the academia out of it actually became quite interesting and lots of people wanted to read about the war and why it started so yeah so lots people read it going what the hell is going on yeah lots of people read it and went oh yeah no it's quite good but uh it wasn't an amazing piece of academia uh However, Joe Senior and Jack decide that, you know what they should probably do? They should probably publish this thesis as a book called Why England Slept. Oh.

Yeah. Joe got a publishing magnate to provide a foreword. And then he got a friend who used to be the bureau chief at the New York Times to redraft the thesis. So he essentially got like george the sixth to write the introduction and the head of editing in the u.s to to just just basically reword it all uh yeah yeah he got someone fancy he got someone fancy to do a foreword and he got um a very famous uh journalist to redraft it. Why not? There's also rumour that Joe bought tens of thousands of these books himself and stored them somewhere.

Because guess what? It got onto the New York's bestseller list. Oh, yeah. That's nice, isn't it? That's nice. That's good. Right, so there you go. Jack is now a New York bestselling author.

Was it the New York Times back then? Yeah, New York Times. New York Times bestselling author. Wow, that's... Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing, isn't it? It's amazing how he accomplished that.

Yeah, it's really great. Again, it's not to say that it's a bad book. No. Or a particularly bad thesis, but it wasn't great. In fact, the first person they approached to do the foreword said, no, there's no way this would ever be published if it wasn't for the fact that the person writing it is a rich man's son. They didn't go for that foreword.

Anyway, what now? He's a best-selling author. He's finished Harvard. What's next? Well, my answer to this, politics. No. Oh, really? No, no.

You mentioned Navy before. Is it Navy? Ah, well, Joe Jr Oh, no, you mentioned Navy before. Is it Navy? Ah, wow. Joe Jr. is going to be president one day. Don't forget. Joe Jr. is busy having the episode that we usually do. Joe Jr. is the guy who's gone to school, done really well, and then left school and is now in law school.

Joe Jr. is doing everything normal. Jack doesn't want to follow in his brother's footsteps at this point. He doesn't want to go into politics. He'd quite like touring Europe, quite likes the idea of maybe becoming a reporter or something. Just going and chatting to people and writing about stuff. That sounds pretty good. But there's no rush. I mean, it's not like he has to do anything. And his mother and his sisters are going to go on a tour of South America. So he goes and joins them. Spends quite a few months just going around South America and just having a lovely time, which is nice.

But he had a few thoughts whilst he was in South America. And once he's back in the States, he knows what he wants to do. He was not going to let the war pass and not join in. He was going to join the military. Yes. However, there's a problem. He was going to join the military. Yes. However, there's a problem. He can't swim. It's not that.

Oh, his butler swims for him. That's why. Well, that's not a problem. That's just efficiency. Are we so ill all the time? Yeah, there we go. It's his medical record. There is no way he will be able to get into the military.

His medical record was a mess of a list of reasons why he could never serve. He physically was not fit enough to join. So, a month later, he was enrolled into the Navy with a clean bill of health. Oh, of course he was, yeah. Money does that. Yeah, yeah. It turns out he was fine. No problems here.

Chronic back pain? No. No. Severe bowel problems? No. Absolutely not. No, Severe bowel problems? No. Absolutely not. No, all good. He enters the Navy.

A sphincter looks like a jammed donut? No, it's fine. Well, he enters the Navy. He worked in the Foreign Intelligence Branch, so office work. It was not exciting. It was very boring. He was very bored at work. He wasn't bored in his social life because he'd just met a

woman that actually could sustain his interest for more than five minutes for the first time in his life. This was a Scandinavian journalist, 10 years older than him, called Inge Arved. Inge was an interesting character. She had Jack's interest. She also had Hitler's interest when she stayed in Germany and several high-ups over there. She certainly had the FBI's interest. Now, she was in the States. They weren't entirely convinced she wasn't a spy. Yeah.

The German accent and the swastikas. She was Nordic. That's what she was. Didn't stop having a German accent. Yeah, didn't, no. She had many accents and passports. Yeah. No, hi, Josh.

Yeah. As you probably point out, it was not proved that she was a spy, but she was certainly... Yeah, of course not. Yeah, they certainly suspected her. I mean, the fact she had SS embroidered on her shirt collar. That was Scandinavian for Inga Arved.

It's just monogrammed. That's all it was. Jack going, Scandinavia's not a country or language. Shh, Jack, shh. Nine, nine. I mean, no. Anyway, Jack was transferred down to South Carolina for fears that he was a security risk. The FBI wiretaps his phone and conversations between him and Inga are recorded. Anyway, Jack was transferred down to South Carolina for fears that he was a security risk.

The FBI wiretaps his phone and conversations between him and Ingrid are recorded. And they show that the relationship was strained by this, as you can imagine. We are being listened to. Yeah, many of the recordings were just like that. Yeah, I mean, the two were infatuated with each other. Jack had the fact that he was younger, he was very charismatic, and she had the fact that she was just more... She had a mission. Yes.

She was just a bit more mature than what Jack was used to, and he actually found her interesting and didn't just want to leave immediately after breakfast. So, yeah. But the relationship then ends. Many historians speculate that Joe Senior stepped in and paid Ingra to back off. There was also...

Obviously spy, here's some information. Yeah. Go away. So that was nice of Joe Senior, wasn't it? There's also suggestion that Jack thought about renouncing Catholicism at this time in revenge against his father, but ultimately he didn't. But things were strained between Jack and his dad. His back's also playing up at this time, as it is always. He was in constant pain.

He was sleeping on boards, on wooden boards, to try and sort it out, and that didn't really help. Then Joe Senior steps in to make sure that the Navy doctors wrote up the back problems as a strain, nothing too serious. So Jack was able to go back to duty, still in pain, but he wasn't kicked out for being an obvious physical wreck. But he'd had enough by this point. He'd had enough of sitting behind a desk. He'd had enough of his father telling him what to do.

He was going to go and fight, and he was going to prove himself. And he wanted to be the captain of a PT boat, a patrol torpedo boat. These were small, fast boats that were essentially the motorcycles of the fleet. They were the cool things to be part of. Like, you were going to be in the fleet, you wanted to be on one of the cool pt boats it's like the fons of boats yeah exactly they were quick they were speedy everyone thought they were really cool they also despite what the popular image of them was about as useful as actual motorbikes in the navy they're just sink well they were just a bit drowned they were a bit useless i

mean they'd float but they were a bit useless. The people in charge of them happened to be very good at PR, and they'd managed to sell the story to the public and also to those high up in the Navy that these boats were amazing. But in actuality, they weren't. Eventually, they were kind of written off by the end of the war. But at this stage, everyone wants to be a PT commander.

So that's what Jack wants to do, obviously. Now, they were so popular, being a PT commander was very heavily sought after. Over a thousand people applied, most with very good experience of commanding boats. Only 50 were given a place in the training program. Jack was one of them. Wow. How did that happen? I don't know. I don't know. Was it his military skill and knowledge?

It could be. It could be. Could be. You tell me. Or maybe it was that massive silver spoon sticking out of every orifice. Who knows? That explains all the problems. It does explain all the problems.

Yeah. I mean, he wasn't fit enough to do the job physically. He didn't have the experience to do the job. But he was in. He was in. And then when they finished training. Imagine Top Gun here, by the way. Yes.

Yeah. So they finished training and then only the best of the best get to stay in the States and help train the next lot. Let me guess. Go on. He stayed in the states and help train the next lot let me guess go on he stayed in the states and trained the rest yes yes he did he was selected as one of the best of the best now at this point joe's influence angered jack he wanted to go to the pacific and fight he didn't want to stay behind but his father was keeping him there pulling strings in the background so that's probably a good idea. Well, Jack was determined

to prove that he didn't need a rich and famous relative to help him out. Everything he's done because of a rich and famous relative. That's a ridiculous statement to make. He's going to prove that he can do it on his own. He knew exactly... But he got in the position he's in because he's rich. Well, he knew exactly what to do. He knew what to do, Jamie. Start as a private.

No. Start as an ensign. No. That's silly. That's silly. I think he's not going to do that. He knew what to do, Jamie. He started as a private. No. He started as an ensign. No, that's silly. That's silly. I think he's not going to do that. He's going to go his own way. He's going to go to his grandfather, Honey Fitz, who was going to call the Massachusetts senator who arranged a transfer for him. His own way.

He went his own way, he did. Jack is on his way to war. What an inspiration. It didn't take him long for the realities of the Pacific War to really sink in. What's this red stuff all over my hands? That's blood, sir. And this pink stuff? Brain.

He wrote home, and I quote, He wrote home, and I quote, The picture that I had in the back of my greatly illusioned mind about spending the war sitting on some cool Pacific beach with a warm Pacific maiden stroking me gently has disappeared. He wanted it to be a holiday. Well, he wants to prove himself, but he didn't think it was going to be. I mean, he had pictures of drinking on beaches and there being sexy maidens. He told his parents to tell his brother, Joe Jr., not to wish to join him in the Pacific. And I'll

quote, he will want to be back the day after he arrives if he runs true to the form of everyone else. Instead, his brother, Joe Jr., is heading to Europe to fly planes. That's so much cooler, in a kind of a deadly, he's going to die kind of way. What ever gives you that impression? I've never heard of Joe Kennedy. Might be why. It's a bit odd that this far more successful, does better at everything, older brother of Kennedy

is just not as well known. I wonder why that is. Anyway, he's off to Europe in a plane full of dynamite. But we're going to stick with Jack because it's his episode. One day, after hearing yet again from friends how they wished that they

were out there with him fighting, he wrote that he was getting sick and tired about everyone stateside wishing that they were in the Pacific, and everyone in the Pacific wishing that they were at home. And I quote him, it seems to me that someone with some enterprise could work out some kind of exchange, which I quite liked. Now, like a large portion of the men, they were all fed up with MacArthur. Remember General MacArthur's in charge over there and how he was running the Pacific theatre. They

were fed up with the island hopping and the dying in large numbers. It was a nasty war in the Pacific. They were dying in large numbers to the enemy and to disease. It was hot. It was hellish. It was viral. Although, to begin with, Jack didn't actually see much action because he and his small crew on their little PT boat were mainly put in charge of ferrying generals around. The PT boats were very safe.

They were quick, they were speedy, they could get out of the way. Generals soon learnt that if you're on a PT boat, you were probably going to be safe. So Jack essentially became a taxi driver to the generals. He started getting very fed up of these out-of-touch generals coming on, essentially looking at big wheels and going, so what does this do then? Tapping pipes and going, ooh, a pipe.

And just not having a clue. He was getting very fed up with the upper crust of the military. And then one night, in a last-minute plan, they finally saw some action. 15 PT boats were called to intercept a Japanese convoy. It's the most PT boats in one formation they'd had so far. They weren't used to doing this kind of thing. It was very last minute. It wasn't planned well, as you can imagine. Visibility was very poor. Radio silence was in effect, so they didn't give away their position.

The 15 boats lost formation almost immediately. It has been said by some historians that discipline on the PT boats weren't great, to put it bluntly. Well, they're all putting their, like, wax in their hair and just going, eee, into the mirrors. Yeah, exactly. Some historians have also claimed that Jack was, how can I put this, a mediocre captain. You can kind of see why. So, Werther follows him around, doesn't he? It certainly is. I mean, don't forget, he's in constant pain at this point,

which he is trying to hide from the men. And also, like you say, Mediocre's pretty much summed him up his whole life, so I don't see why it would be any different. So maybe that explains what happens next. Because a Japanese destroyer rams into Jack's boat and essentially cuts it in half. Oh, wow. This is the only PT boat in the entire war to get rammed.

Oh. That's embarrassing. Well, it's either bad luck or just obviously bad captainship. To be fair to Jack, many historians also conclude that this was just very poor luck. I mean, maybe he wasn't the best captain in the world, but the fact is that it was impossible to see. It was radio silence. They'd never trained for this kind of formation. It was all very last minute. Of course, something's going to go wrong. It's warfare. And after all, it doesn't really matter his boat got split in half, because that is not

what the film is about that was made several years later. Because yes, they made a film about this. And the film is all about what happens next. The film is called PT-109, by the way, which is the name of the boat. So the boat is split in half. The wreckage is still afloat, but it's slowly sinking. Jack and five others were flung into the water, managed to grip onto the side of the boat. They realised they'd need to go and find survivors, so Jack and two of the others go for a swim. Jack found one man severely burnt and struggling to stay afloat, so he pulled him back to the wreck. And after a long time, all but two of the crew were found.

So 11 men were clinging to the wreck of this boat that was slowly sinking for nine hours. Wow. It's 2pm at this point, so the night's passed, we're well into midday. And the wreck's about to go under, they can't stay there. So they came to the conclusion that they've been left for dead, no one's coming to pick them up, they need to swim for it. Now fortunately, and I don't know how, I tried to look this up, but they knew where the nearest island was.

I would have thought if I was flung from a boat I'd have lost my sense of direction, but maybe it was close enough to kind of see the waves breaking or something. Oh, there's an island! It's about 15 metres that way. There's the lighthouse! There's the bar!

There's everyone else in the Navy drinking the cocktails, being stroked gently by maidens. Why are they laughing? No, no, this wasn't a lovely big island full of people that would save them. They knew of a strip of a sandbank that protruded from the sea. There was nothing on this. This was just a strip of a sandbank that protruded from the sea. There was nothing on this. This was just a bit of sand that had sticked out,

but at least they'd be able to sit down. So Jack took the burned man's life jacket straps in his mouth and then started to swim with the man on his back. Remember, he's got severe back injuries himself, so he must have been in a lot of pain. But also fantastic teeth. Yeah, oh yeah, great teeth.

Great dental care for years and years. For five hours they swim. Bloody hell. Yeah. Once they get to the island, as you can imagine, they have a bit of a breather. Yeah. Yeah, but obviously they can't stay there.

No patrol boats are going past. This is a strip of land. No one's coming to it. So what to do? Well, they figure that one of the US patrol routes actually is just an hour swims north from here. If someone swims for an hour north and bops around in the water with their whistle and a torch,

then maybe they'll be able to flag someone down. That reminds me of a comedy show. I can't remember who it was. That's Eddie Izzard. Is it Eddie Izzard? Yeah. You're 1,000 miles from France. You're 2,000 miles from the United States.

You've got your whistle. Yeah. Anyway, Jack volunteers. They'd barely been on the island for any time at all. Jack says, I'm going to go. He's the captain. Of course he needs to go. So off he goes.

He swims for an hour and he bobs around in the water. Boop, he says. Boop. Nope, no luck. No luck at all. It's a bit like when it's raining and you're looking for a taxi. Oh, yeah. Yeah yeah jack gives up uh he starts to swim back then two boats turn up at once but they go by oh yeah uh yeah he falls unconscious a few times swimming back but um i mean obviously he's got his life jacket on so he just bobs around for a bit and then wakes

up and goes i hope it's this way uh off he goes uh he makes it back which is nice um anyway they rest for a bit longer it's someone else's turn so they go off they come back a few hours later no still no luck so they decide they've all got to go this time they're going to swim to the next island because they need water so we're just going to swim to the next island because they need water. So we're just going to swim to the next island. That one might have water. It's certainly going to be better than this strip of a beach. So they all go.

They swim for hours and hours yet again. And they get there. Hooray. No water. Oh. Not good. So Kennedy and two others volunteer to go to the next island, which, to be fair, is a bit closer.

They swim over to the next island, and they find a canoe and a stash of food and a drum of fresh water. Hey. Hey, that's great. So Jack says, I'll take the water and the food back to everyone else in the canoe that we've just found. You guys stay here, see if you can find anyone. So Jack canoes back to the remaining men. And when he gets there, he finds that they'd come

across some natives. There were some people living on that island. How nice. And these native islanders agreed to take a message scratched into a coconut to a nearby army base that they knew of. Hooray, they say. So they carve a message, possibly just the words help, onto the coconut, and they give it to the islander, and they wave goodbye, and they cross their fingers, and they hope. The men wait, and they wait. They wait a bit more, and eventually,

the islanders come back with a letter, but from a New Zealand lieutenant. G'day! It's more Australian than New Zealand It's truth Again, that's more Australian You're in a bad situation Just say the word Brit

You're a pin Yeah, exactly Follow the native islanders says the letter So they do, and after seven days of being stranded in the middle of the Pacific, they are back to safety. So there you go. A genuine war adventure.

Yeah. Do you know what? I was really doubting everything about Kennedy for quite a while. I was like, he's just a ****. You might have to bleep that i don't know um that that takes a lot of courage to do that oh yeah yeah yeah no this is genuinely good story in fact i got this ill like chronically ill not that anyone knew that of course no but he knew it and yeah he did um once those high up in the Navy heard this story, they agreed. Wow, what a good story.

We could use this as a good propaganda story, they said. Let's not cover this up. Let's clear it to be released to the press. So the headlines very shortly in the United States were, Kennedy's son is hero in the Pacific, and Kennedy's son saves 10, etc 10 etc etc jack's actions were heroic but don't forget as were countless stories that happened every single day of the war this wasn't an unusual war story it was a heroic war story but it wasn't an unusual war story what made this news is that it

wasn't just poor mother's sons going to war, but also rich father's sons. We're all in this together. It was a feel-good story that they could sell to the masses. So Jack spent a month recovering from the ordeal, and he had had enough. He really had. I mean, he wanted to go home.

I mean, it's not as simple as just going home, obviously. You can't just discharge yourself from the Navy. But bless your Kennedy. Well, no, to be fair, he was given command of another PT boat, which was then converted into another type of boat, because by this point they realised PT boats were useless. But his back was really causing him a lot of problems, and he was mentally and physically exhausted. At this point, he also receives news that his elder brother, Joe Jr., who had always been so much better than him,

had been shot down over Europe in a plane full of dynamite. Not really shot down, more exploded. Yeah, I'm only exaggerating slightly there. It was pretty much a suicide run he volunteered for. The plane was packed full of explosives and they were going to try and just bomb something. And before they set off, one of the engineers went, the triggers were a bit faulty.

You really don't want to... Oh, you've gone. Is it a bit temperamental? Oh, never mind. Maybe I should have said that earlier. Maybe I Is it a bit temperamental? Oh. Never mind. Maybe I should have said that earlier. Maybe I shouldn't have shouted it over the engines starting up. Damn it.

I should have said they're planning the stage. But I wanted to get my cup of tea. Never mind. Off to the Manhattan Projects. He went. Yeah. Yes. Yeah joe's joe junior's dead he's dead so as you can imagine uh jack's had enough he's in genuine physical emotional pain the doctors will leave him from duty and send him back to the states to have his back looked at he's sent to rhode island and once he's there, he's operated on. And he starts getting a lot of very awkward questions

from the military doctors about this so-called clean bill of health you've got there. This is clearly an underlining medical condition, and your records say there's nothing. You don't have a spine. This would have come up in any exam. Where are your hip bones? You have six legs. Yeah, it was decided that Jack could retire from the Navy. Would have come up in any exam. Where are your headphones? You have six legs. Yeah.

It was decided that Jack could retire from the Navy. I mean, after all, he was a war hero son of Joe Kennedy. Do we really, really want to look into how he should not have been over there in the first place? Let the kid go was the decision of those high up in the Navy. And we'll just say no more about it. So there you go, Jack's out of the war. But what now?

Well, he thought about being a journalist before. Maybe he'll do that, he thought. His father put a word in with some friends and he got a job working for the Hearst newspaper over in Los Angeles, which is nice. He wasn't there long, though, because off to Europe to report on the Potsdam Conference, where he essentially just hobnobbed with the hobnobs and had a nice time.

I do like biscuits. Yeah, exactly. But this is only a sideshow, because Joe Senior had always wanted one thing, and that was for his eldest son to be big in politics and one day be president. And now Jack is his eldest son. Oh, of course, yeah. Yeah. He said as much to Jack.

I told him Joe, as in Joe Jr., I told him Joe was dead. And it was his responsibility to run for Congress. So there you go. That's what you're doing, son. Jack wasn't overly keen, but he did feel like he had a responsibility to the family. So wheels were set in motion. Joe Sr. had words with one of the Democratic representatives of Massachusetts, James Curley. James Curley had run up a lot of debts and also had a conviction for fraud. Joe Senior had made it very clear that these things could just go away if Joe was to step down and run for mayor of Boston instead.

And all of a sudden, oh look, a seat was open that Jack Kennedy could run for. Who'd have thought? Who'd have thought it? It wasn't a shoo-in, though. Let's not be ridiculous here. He wasn't just going to waltz into this position. He was going to have to run against real people who were running against him to claim the seat. And it soon became clear as the campaign started that Jack wasn't particularly good at this.

He wasn't his brother, as he'd proven pretty much all his life. Many people around him found him very aloof and snobbish. He wasn't great at just chatting to people. He was great at chatting to people he wanted to sleep with. He wasn't great at chatting to just the common man on the street trying to win a vote. It's just he'd never really done that before. He'd quite often just ignore people, walk past them. He also wasn't the best at public speaking.

I mean, he wasn't terrible, but again, the word mediocre comes up a lot. Yeah. His family members would mouth along to the speeches he was giving, fearing that he'd forget the words, which, as you can imagine, only put Jack off even more. He had to tell one of his sisters off at one point, saying, please stop doing that. Very distracting. However, he did have two things going for him.

His money and his personality. No, his money. Women. Or just money? His money slash connections. I'm going to keep that as one. But also, don't forget, he is a war hero with a genuinely good war hero story.

That's a good point. Yes, he was able to use that quite a bit. Joe kept out of the limelight, but he was the one really running the campaign here. He was the one pulling the strings. He was spending an obscene amount of money on his son um over six times the usual amount spent on a campaign uh one journalist at time said it was the equivalent of an elephant squashing a peanut and joe himself said with the money i spent i could have elected my chauffeur which is a ringing endorsement of his son there.

Or a shocking endorsement that politics is that easy, if you've got money. I mean, yes, very much so. Anyway, this worked. Jack ran on a campaign that highlighted his strengths. He was young. He was the next generation. He was fit and he was strong.

Shh, no one look into that too carefully. He was ready to deal with the nation's problems. He was the fresh he was strong. Shh, no one look into that too carefully. He was ready to deal with the nation's problems. He was the fresh face of politics. And this seemed to go down quite well. Now, obviously, in real life, he was in constant pain, struggling with his health, but this was all hidden because that's not going to do anyone any good, is it? And he wins this.

At 29, he was elected into the House of Representatives, along with Richard Nixon and Joseph McCarthy, who we've come across before. Yes. He's very young, isn't he? 29. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's still in his 20s. Anyway, for the next six years, he serves in the House, working in the Education and Labour Committee and the Veterans Affairs Committee. As per usual, the stories kind of dry up as a person goes into Congress, as we've seen before, because they're just getting on with being in Congress and it's not that exciting. Jack did the job. Nothing stands out. But everyone in

the family knew this is the first rung on the ladder for Jack. Everyone knew that this was the first stepping stone. The idea was to serve for six years and then go to the Senate. One person, a friend of his who was also in Congress, said, I never felt he did much work in Congress. Jack would often be found swinging his golf clubs in his office, working on a swing. He'd do bits, but he didn't go out of his way. Don't worry, the work's getting done, though.

Of course it is. The work's getting done because Joe Senior had hired a group of aides to make sure that it did. Joe created a headquarters back in Boston and in Washington, so there were two teams of people doing the work for him, which, I mean, to be fair, that's how it's always done by everyone nowadays. But it wasn't necessarily back then. Joe Senior just had the money to make sure aides

were getting the work done. And Jack was busy getting his name out, because that's what his job was. Joe made sure that his son's name appeared in the paper as often as possible. He'd phone up his friends in the newspaper industry and just say, run a story about Jack, would you? And they would. Or do an interview with Jack in your magazine, and they would. So Jack's becoming more and more popular nationally, and the work's getting done by his aides. However, all of this starts to get to Jack, who snapped when his father told him which

way to vote one day. Ooh. Yes. He was his own man him which way to vote one day. Ooh. Yes. He was his own man, after all. He wants to rebel now. Rebellious stage. Yeah. I mean, he might be getting help, but he was no puppet, dammit. I'll quote here. I guess Dad has decided that he's going to be the ventriloquist, so I guess that leaves me being the dummy. He was feeling quite bitter at this point. So attempting to establish himself,

he said to his father, I've got great respect for you, but when it comes to voting, I'm voting my way. Which Joe actually was fine with. I mean, Joe wanted his son to be the president because he wanted his son to be the president. And yes, he had his own views in politics,

but he wasn't that bothered whether Jack had the same views in politics as he did. He just wanted his son to do well. So Jack is trying to carve out a name for himself away from his father, but he's still very much under the sway of his father. One area where he has complete freedom, though, is the way he sleeps his way around Washington at this point. His womanising ways has in no way slowed down. This is mostly one-night stands with secretaries and the like. He has no interest whatsoever in settling down.

His friends speculated that he only enjoyed the chase, and as soon as a woman actually fell for him, he just got bored and disappointed, and he'd go on to the next one. That's depressing. Highest pregnancy rate in Washington, D.C. at the time as well. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Kennedy, a little bit like Angus Cannon that way.

Yes. 32% of all Americans are actually Kennedy's grandson. That's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's a little known fact. Anyway, over the years, Jack started to fall in with the anti-communist wink of the party. The Red Scare was really hotting up. And the Kennedys realised that this is a good way to get press.

If you're really hot on the anti-communist stuff, the press really want to hear what you have to say because it's exciting. Now, he's in a different party to McCarthy and Nixon, obviously. But he saw what they were doing and he figured this was a good tactic. So he fell in with that crowd. However, as we've seen, McCarthy's popularity fails at one point, and he was disgraced, and Jack in future has to distance himself from the movement, which he was able to do because he was never a particularly loud voice. But it was noticed that the Kennedys were very friendly with McCarthy. I mean,

McCarthy even dated Jack's sister Patricia at one point. You've got that tie there. The more liberal wings of the parties were very cautious of Jack. He seems to be very much a non-liberal, very conservative, up-and-coming politician. Anyway, eventually all of the tricks being pulled by him and his father work, and it got to the stage in 1949 when it became very obvious to everyone that he was running for the Senate. He was going to go up against the very popular and respected Republican Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., and it would not be an easy fight. But once again, obviously, Joe is financing it, a huge amount of money being poured in.

And this time, Jack's younger brother, Bobby Kennedy, takes the reign as campaign manager. Robbie, Robert, Bob, Bobby. Lodge and Jack, despite being in different parties, were actually very similar. They were both conservative, but they had ties to the centre rather than the fringe of their parties. In the end, it essentially became a fight of personality. And Kennedy had that by this point. I mean, he struggled to begin with, with the meet and greet and the public speaking. But it's been a few years now and he'd honed it.

And he was naturally very charismatic and he got better at it. And he started realising that the tricks he used to woo the ladies actually were very similar to tricks you could use to woo voters. So he just starts pouring on charm and it starts to work. The separate factions in the parties all claimed that Kennedy was with them because they wanted him to be with them because he was charismatic. Now, it was a hard-won election, but when he did, and in 1953 he becomes a senator. Yeah, he did it. Now, it was a hard one election, but when he did, and in 1953, he becomes a senator. Oh, he did it.

Ten years before he dies. Oh, that's a scary thought, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway, it's not long after this that he reluctantly gets married. Is this Jackie? Yes, he was going to need a wife, wasn't he? If he's going to be president, he's got to have a wife.

You can't be a bachelor and a president. That surprised me as reluctant, but actually, no, it doesn't. I was assuming they're just a loving couple, but no. Oh, no, no, no, no. I missed all that sense. No, I mean, that's very good PR spin going through the ages. That's what that is. Joe Sr. and Jack realised that they really needed

to get Jack married as soon as possible because rumours of his sexuality started to spread. Now, this greatly amused anyone who knew Jack personally in what a serial womaniser he was. But don't forget, this is in the height of the Red Scare and linking homosexuality to subvertive actions was at its height. This was very dangerous. Dirty commie. Yeah, get accused of being a homosexual. I mean, you might as well be accused of being a commie, and that's it. That's your career gone.

Yeah. So Jack had met, relatively recently, a 22-year-old Jackie. And they got on. Because, of course they did. Because Jack got on with all the women he met. Jackie also had a womanising, hard-drinking father. So they had something to talk about. Yes.

Yes. Oh, you've got a dominating, womanising father as well, haven't you? Me too. Excellent. Yeah. They get on well enough, but it's unlikely Jack would have stuck with it up to a wedding if it wasn't what he needed to do for the career. Now, that's not to say

that it was completely loveless to begin with. They seemed to have definitely got on well. Maybe they were in love, but there was definitely an element of convenience. And within a year or so, Jack was back to his old ways, probably even sooner to be honest. More than once he left a party with a young woman. Jackie was still at the party. Oh. Yeah. Everyone knowing what had just happened, because Jack had left the party his arm round someone.

Yeah, that's a bit dodgy. A little bit, yeah. According to friends, after a year of marriage, Jackie was, and I quote, wandering around looking like the survivor of an airplane crash. It speaks volumes that she herself around this time said, I don't think there are any men who are

faithful to their wives. Men are such a combination of good and evil. Which is very depressing. It really is. She literally thought every single man was like this. Because that's what her father was like, that's what her husband's like. She just assumed that that's what everyone had to put up with, which is a shame. Things get worse. Jackie has a miscarriage in 56. Jack was informed of this whilst partying

on a yacht with several young women. He decides not to go home because he's having a good time. several young women. He decides not to go home because he's having a good time. At this point, one of his aides sort of leans in, possibly sticks his head out from under the covers. Or into the covers. Yeah, maybe. Just pointing out that divorce really won't look good. If you want to be president, you can't be divorced. Go home. So Jack reluctantly goes home. You don't look impressed. He's actually quite dislikable as a human being we'll get to that when we judge him jamie but well it's not but when it is but you can kind of see where it comes from oh yeah yeah yeah it explains but does not excuse platter yes but yeah you're right it's not an excuse but it does does explain it. But it explains it. But as a human being, you need to...

Anyway, back to his job, shall we? Because let's not focus too much on his personality. Once in the Senate, things don't change. It's still a push to get his name in the press, to get his name to become a household name. I mean, Kennedy's a household name, but JFK needs to be a household name. I mean, Kennedy's a household name, but JFK needs to be a household name. John F. Kennedy.

People need to see Kennedy and not think of Joe Kennedy. They need to think of John Kennedy. Yeah. That was going to be tricky. I mean, if you remember, all the newspaper headings from a few years ago were Kennedy's son. They weren't John Kennedy.

So they're doing their best to try and change this. I wonder as well, when Joe Kennedy died, did he die a hero? Oh, as in brother, Joe Jr.? Yes. Oh, yes, yes, he very much died a hero. He was seen as a war hero as well. The war hero Kennedy sons. Yeah.

The fact that Joe Jr. died meant that his mother was a gold star mother, so had a child who died. Jack was able to use this in his campaigning a lot, talking about his poor mother who lost a child to appeal toward the other mothers who lost children. It was a good selling point. Politics is awful, it really is. Politics is awful, yeah.

Oh my goodness. Anyway, if they wanted to get his name out, they needed something. And they came up with an idea. Let's publish another book. People like to read. Yeah, people like to read. This time we're going to publish a book, Profiles in Courage. This was a series of short biographies of senators who were all very, very, very brave.

And all very good and amazing people. Look at all these senators who were all very, very, very brave and all very good and amazing people. Look at all these senators who were really good people. That's what this book's about. John Quincy Adams got a chapter, by the way, as did Benson. You remember Benson? He was in Jackson's episode. A few people we've come across before all get chapters. But that's not important. Who's in the books is not important at all. This book has one reason and one reason only, and that's to have a front cover. Because on the front of this book, about all these very, very great senators, nice and large was the name of the author. What's the name of the author? I'm guessing the author's John Kennedy. Oh, but they do better than that. Just the word Kennedy. Senator John F. Kennedy. Ah. In this book about lots of amazing senators,

nice and big on the front is Senator John F. Kennedy. Subtle. Yeah. Subtle. Very nice. Yeah, the book won a Pulitzer Prize for biography in 1957, which is nice. It would be nice if it was genuine, right? I mean, yeah, the reason why the book won the prize is because Joe knew a man on the prize board who convinced all the other judges to vote for it. Oh, and by the way, Jack didn't write the book. It was ghostwritten. Didn't. Of course he didn't. Of course he didn't.

There is some debate over this, it should be said. There is some historians who suggest that he largely dictated the book and most of it was actually his work and then it was edited. And then you get other historians who just go, no, of course he didn't bloody write it. And I must admit, I'm more leaning on that side. Yeah. But who knows?

He certainly did not write the whole thing. There was a ghostwriter definitely involved. Anyway, his name's out there. He's got another book out which is nice uh anyway he goes back to work in the senate doing what senators do none of it's hugely interesting to be honest many stuff about labor laws which will come into play later on he's already made a name for himself by the time of the next democratic convention now joe obviously has his fingers in all the convention pies, as you can imagine. He had contacted Lyndon Johnson.

Lyndon Johnson, the Speaker of the House, Democratic Speaker of the House at this time. And Joe Senior said to Lyndon, you come out and say you're running for president and that Jack will be your vice president. I will finance your entire campaign. That's an amazing offer. Yeah. That's an amazing offer. Yeah, that is an amazing offer.

Obviously one that doesn't fulfil. Johnson turns it down. There we go. Infuriating the Kennedys. What? They saw this as the perfect offer. Only an idiot would turn this down. But they do.

Still, the convention obviously goes ahead anyway. Jack was chosen to give the nomination speech for the presidential nominee Stevenson. Obviously Johnson's not going for it. Stevenson's the forerunner in the convention. Stevenson was going to go up against Eisenhower, which we saw, the Republican

nominee. And Joe, by this point, thought his son should distance himself. It seemed very unlikely that Stevenson would defeat Eisenhower. So stay clear of this. We back the winning horse, and only the winning horse. We'll wait till the next election. You're young still. However, that did not stop Jack putting his name forward to be the vice president nominee. Joe was furious at his son for this,

shouting that Jack was throwing away his career, but Jack did it anyway. It was close, but Jack came in second. So he was almost the vice president nominee in this election behind Stevenson, but he didn't quite pan out. So he goes back to the Senate. The major issue in the Senate at this

time was the Civil Rights Act of 57, which we touched upon in Iverson Howard's episode, what with things changing in education and segregation and stuff. But what I didn't discuss was this Civil Rights Act, which was a bill that was put together to protect the voting rights of black people. Initially, Jack votes against it, as did many in his party, because there was a big push at this time to keep party unity, and there was a large southern bloc in the party who strongly resisted the idea of black people voting.

So this is the remnants of the southern influence on the Democrats. Yes, exactly. It's still there, still there in the 50s. Yeah, 100 years on from the Civil War. Bloody hell. Yeah, so Jack, along with many in the party,

vote against the Civil Rights Act, which obviously a lot of liberal people in the party did not like. But he did vote for a compromise version of the bill in September, which goes through. Then another book was published, just in case people didn't get the hint the first time. This one was called A Nation of Immigrants. This was a history of the United States and

the importance of immigration. And then he's up for re-election. So he's done a term in the Senate. So he's going to go for it again. With all the publicity of the last 10 years behind him, it starts to really pay off. He wins his re-election with the biggest margin in Massachusetts history. He is now popular. He is the young upcoming politician. A film was made, a short documentary film, called The US Senator John F. Kennedy.

It's got vibes of Obama here. Yeah, yeah. Some charismatic talk. And a huge, huge machine behind him. Of course, yeah. Pushing, yeah, yeah, definitely. That does have shades of Obama, definitely. This film

showed a day in the life of Jack and it had one purpose only, to make him seem as presidential as possible. So obviously all very carefully put together, very staged. Oh, look how with it together he is. He's like, put the prostitutes away, Jack.

In the cupboard. No, grab Jackie. That's it, that's it. Like you love her. No, smile, smile. No, Jack, you have to smile. Smile, Jack Yeah, it was a bit like that

Someone get a photo of whatever mistress he's got at the moment And wave it in front of him Oh, look, he's smiling There we go Excellent Now, by this time, everyone knew that Jack was going to run for president It was an open secret It wasn't a matter of whether he would,

it was just a matter of when. And to run in 1960 would actually be very soon. It would in fact make him the youngest ever elected president in history. The only other president to be younger was Teddy Roosevelt, but obviously he wasn't elected. So many people thought it was too young. He'd probably wait another round isn't there a date now? you have to be a certain age to be president now yes, yeah that's always been in place as far as I'm aware

and I think is it 40 something? no, I think it's younger I think it might be 30 I don't know off the top of my head that's really weird why that's in place because the constitution was written by old men and the old don't know off the top of my head. That's really weird why that's in place. Because the Constitution was written by old men and the old don't trust the young.

What's the oldest, youngest man age we can have? Yeah, it's pretty much like that. Hang on, let me look this up. I want to know. 35, yeah. Like I say, the oldest young man why an arbitrary number was picked

that's just really I could be president just yeah you could I couldn't be can you not yet you can be president soon though can't you I could be a vice president

I'm 34 so I could be a vice president you could be my I don't know if there's an age thing on vice presidents and I'm not even going to look that one up

no soon there is yeah it's fine you'll be old enough come the'll see if there is. Yeah. It's fine. You'll be old enough come the next election. If there's a massive change to the Constitution and you could accept a non-American as president, would you accept the job?

What, to be president? Yeah. Would I accept? I mean, it's quite likely they'd ask. I mean, I couldn't say why they would. I mean, you have the knowledge, so. Yeah, no, I would. I would.

Would you accept me as your vice president or a member on your cabinet? Maybe not vice president. Actually, they do nothing. You can be my vice president. Oh, awesome. Cool. I'll be president. You can be vice president. I get an office in the White House. Or an adjacent building. There's definitely an office.

There's some kind of room. Corridor. Something under the stairs. Exactly, yeah. Anyway, where do we go? I have no idea. I have no idea how much of this tangent I'm going to keep in, but let's see. He is something too young to be president. Oh yeah, of course, he's going to be too young.

No, not too young, he's just going to be very young. Yeah, so campaign hots up. Joe obviously is pulling the strings and financing everything. Younger brother Bobby is in charge yet again. The strategy here is to do what many had attempted before. Do well in the states that held primaries, and then use that support to have strong position in the convention. Because not everything's primaries yet at this point. With all the money being thrown at it, the campaign goes well. To begin with, after extensively touring the country, he started to be seen as the most popular candidate with the rank

and file, and he wins Wisconsin and West Virginia. But there's a problem. He didn't need to win the rank and file of the primaries. He needed to win over the convention, and it was impossible to know who was going to win here. Stevenson was still very popular. Then there was Lyndon Johnson, seen as a wizard in the house, but I don't know, could he lead the party? Some people thought so. There was another man named... He'll never be president. Well, there's another man named Stuyvesant. He was liked by everyone, was seen very much as a dark horse candidate, potentially, if they can't decide between Kennedy or Johnson or Stevenson. So who knows? It really was up in the air. However, despite getting nervous, and despite there being a rumour of an anti-Kennedy alliance,

Kennedy was indeed nominated on the very first ballot. There isn't particularly an exciting story in this convention. Kennedy just wins it. Fairly comfortably, in the end, although it was tense going in it. Any chance it may have been mildly influenced by cash flow? Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, yeah. Whether it was a legal right or not, I mean, there's no evidence of that,

but Joe was definitely pouring money into this. So, yeah, we've seen how these things work before. There's conversations that go around in back rooms and people drink whiskey and smoke cigars. Enough people said the right things to enough people and votes went a certain way. Democracy.

So there you go. Kennedy is now presidential nominee. He needs to choose a vice president and he goes for none other than Johnson. He needs to choose a vice president and he goes for none other than Johnson. He realises that he doesn't need to pick a vice president who would appeal to the liberal wing of the party because he's going to be running against Nixon and liberals hate Nixon. So it's fine, we've got the liberals sewn up. So he's picking somebody with experience and knowledge rather than... Yeah, what I might need, he thinks, and so does his brother and his father.

What they might need here is someone who can appeal to the South. And Johnson. Johnson's got that. Like I say, Nixon has won his convention. He's running for the Republicans. So the campaign hots up. Things do not start well for Jack. Polls indicate that Nixon was favourite by six points. This really annoyed

the Kennedys because they assumed Nixon would not be able to do well. It's Nixon. Who likes Nixon, they thought. But it turned out a lot of people did in the polls and he was winning. Bobby Kennedy really steps up as campaign manager at this time. He gained a reputation for being a ruthless hardball. Eisenhower apparently had a nickname for Jack, which was Little Boy Blue. And he also had a nickname for his younger brother, That Little S***. Which is a brilliant nickname.

I think so. You're not going to blink that, are you? I think I'm going to have to. I don't think you should. It's history. It's a comment't think you should. It's history. It's a comment. It's history. It's history.

It's fine, yeah. There were many problems in that campaign. The biggest one, yet again, has plagued the family since the start, the Catholic. Religious bigotry is still very much a thing. Kennedy attempts to solve this by delivering a speech where he says, I am not a Catholic candidate for president.

I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens to be Catholic. And everyone goes, oh, never thought about it that way. Who'd have thought? Yeah. But yeah, no, this actually does do some inroads. He addresses the issue instead of just trying to ignore it. And apparently it does some good. He soon found that, yes, the factions in the Democratic Party

were bad. They were not getting on very well. But he did find something that all the factions agreed on, and that was that Nixon was a complete arse, because Truman had criticised Kennedy's nomination because he was too young. However, not long after his nomination, Truman said, I never liked Kennedy. I hate his father. Kennedy wasn't so great as a senator. However, that no good son of a bitch Nixon called me a communist and I'll do anything to beat him. So the Democrats really start to rally behind Kennedy

just because they all hate Nixon. I mean, we're not selling him for his episode here. Well, don't forget, this is one party's opinion. We might get to Nixon and find out that he was a misunderstood soul.

Kennedy is still struggling to get support from one faction of his party, though, and that's the Liberal faction. They still very much remember him supporting McCarthy. They still remember that he was the only Democratic senator to abstain from voting to censure McCarthy. Now, to be fair to

Kennedy, he was in hospital at the time, so he couldn't vote. But that seems to have been a lucky break, because he really didn't know what he was going to do, because he didn't want to censure McCarthy, but he felt politically he had to. And oh, look, I'm in hospital. La la la la. No one asked me about it, please. But, yeah, he's really struggling with the Liberal faction. The campaign heats up. And then the first ever televised debate between candidates take place. Really? Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah, this format suited the young charismatic Kennedy really well because he looked relaxed, cool and in control, whereas Nixon was sweaty, stubbly and kept shouting, I'm not a crook over and over again or something like that. Anyway, he didn't put on a good performance. And this turned the tide. After the debate, Kennedy led in most of the polls.

It is amazing how much TV debates do affect things. I remember in 2005, we had Gordon Brown versus Cameron. Yeah. Versus... Oh, Nick Clegg, yes. Nick Clegg. And he got a massive... Because he was so smooth and...

Yeah, yeah. He got a massive range of support. That was the only time in UK political history that the Liberal Democrats actually looked like a real force for politics. Yeah. Yeah, for all of a week. But that's why we got the coalition government. That wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for that debate.

Yeah, they split the story vote. But what's interesting about the um uh the televised debates between kennedy and nixon is that those polled who had listened to it on the radio said it was about even no one really won those who watched it overwhelmingly said kennedy had won so do you think it was at this point he got people telling him how to stand and act is is this where this sort of thing began where you know don't point with your finger put that weird thumb thing on your palm yes yes exactly those kind of things weird because it's weird it looks like a politician's talking um yeah yeah exactly uh kennedy was just naturally good at it it wasn't that he was coached he was just naturally good at

it whereas nixon was naturally not good at it well he also to be fair to nixon as we're covering his episode he'd also injured his leg recently and he was in a lot of pain and uh that's one of the reasons why he wasn't doing very well on stage but don't forget kennedy was a wreck physically uh he just managed to hide it no one ever really knew so yeah kennedy's leading in the polls but i I mean, when I say leading, I mean, just it's within margin of error still. He's no longer losing significantly, though. It's really tightened up. But because it's so close, it became clear that Kennedy needed to win over that liberal faction of the party that he'd not won over yet. And there's one easy way to do this. Civil rights. Now, the trouble is, if he leans into civil rights, he would push away the southern bloc of the party. But he hoped that this is where having Johnson as his running

mate would come in. He could court the liberal wing of the party, rely on Johnson to keep the southern bloc. Let's see if this works. I need to do something, was the thought. So he met with a leading civil rights activist and said, and I quote, now in five minutes, tick off 10 things that a president should do to clean up this goddamn civil rights mess. Brilliant. There you go. He leaned in hard. Once he decided to do this, he leaned into it really hard. He started touring the country, talking to black crowds about civil rights, which was unheard of as a presidential candidate and to be fair to Kennedy before the end of the campaign he seems to genuinely have warmed to the idea of civil rights significantly I mean as we saw he voted against the the bill not long ago he wasn't that

bothered by it but it would appear that talking and talking about the issues it opened his eyes to some things that he'd never had to think about before. Anyway, the election comes up. Eventually, the results come in and the Kennedys were shocked. The popular vote was 94.7 to 94.5. That's very close. They had expected a tight, yes, but clear victory. Instead, they had squeezed through by the skin of their teeth.

Apparently, Jack Kennedy himself was fuming. Quote, how did I manage to beat a guy like that by only a few hundred thousand votes? Did not like Nixon by this point. No. No. But that didn't matter because he had won. Only just. The Electoral College was 303 to 219.

And John F. Kennedy becomes the youngest elected president in history. Wow. All through hard, hard, hard cash. So there you go. That's Jack Kennedy. What do you think? I think it just... Because I'm a bit naive a lot with politics,

and I think it really highlights how much money is the influence. Yeah. I'm still foolish enough to think that, oh, my vote counts. It doesn't. Well, I mean, individually, no. But if everyone just stops voting, the whole thing falls apart. But I'll admit, I am a a tad disappointed i was hoping for better i knew that kennedy came from a very privileged background

i was hoping for something a bit more similar to a roosevelt yeah they came from incredibly privileged backgrounds but there was enough in there where you go okay OK, the silver spoons are flying all over the place, but at least you've done this, at least you've done that. He had his own mind. Yeah, apart from surviving his boat being chopped into... Which was impressive. Which is very impressive. But apart from that, mediocrity definitely seems to be the word of the day

he does seem to have improved in politics a lot as he gets older he becomes more charismatic but he learned the gift of the gab yeah but i mean he's still there just spending his time playing golf in his office and sleeping his way around Washington while his wife is having a miscarriage. I mean, it's not great. It's not great. I mean, he's going to have to be quite spectacular in episode two to get a yes. Ooh, he's saying that he's not getting American

unless he really, really impresses you. He's got to do a lot to turn it around, hasn't he? Yeah. Yeah? And even now I'm just thinking, really impresses you. He's got to do a lot to turn it around, hasn't he? Yeah. Yeah? And even now I'm just thinking, Bay of Pigs. You know? I'm just, the Cuba's ringing in my mind. It's like, I mean, that's a big...

Ah, you're forgetting Jamie. He got assassinated. Spoilers. What? Nothing does more to make the public feel happy with their leader than that leader being assassinated it's true but it gets rid of a hard truth unfortunately yeah oh but that is all for next episode you're stripping away all of my what i thought but it's good because i know facts now rather than just yeah i don't know i'm sure we get lots of comments saying that I've been a bit too harsh on Jack, good old Jack here

but anyway, that's all for next time so thank you very much for listening everyone and thank you for downloading us on Popbean and iTunes and wherever else and we'll be adding more things to the list soon yes and thank you very much to our Senate members who have joined Patreon

and supporting us and if you've not done that and you want to go to our Senate members who have joined Patreon and supporting us. And if you've not done that and you want to, go to our Patreon site, sign up, support us for $5 a month or more if you want to. And you will get all of the Founding Fathers and Roman Republic episodes and the fourth week episodes, which we have just done, a commentary of our first ever Roman episode from back in 2016, where we talk over that episode and we drink wine. And we sometimes get a bit distracted and talk about other stuff. Yeah. But also, there's also the first episode where I did something as well. Yes, yes.

Jamie did some research. Yeah. No, I mean with the episode. Oh, no. Yes, no. Jamie. I did stuff. Jamie edits the fourth week episodes.

I do. Yeah, yeah, he does. That's why they're so bad. No, they're very good. I mean, not selling it. They're amazing. I was very impressed. The start music was at the start.

It wasn't five minutes of sobbing of you saying, I can't do this halfway through. I was very impressed. It's very good. I'm so going to do that for the next one. Right, anyway, we're waffling now. So let's say goodbye. Thank you very much for listening.

And until next time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Well, Charles. Yes, my liege young master, Jack. I've got to say I've been very impressed with your service for me, but also for the service you've provided my family over the many decades that you've been here. You've been most adequate. Master Jack, it tickles my cockles to hear you say so.

My father was a butler and his father was a butler before him and we have always served the Kennedys. Well, that is good to hear because I must, the times when you bring my coffee and biscuits, it's the best part of the day. It's an honour to hear you say so, my young Master Jack. However, I must ask you to do one grave thing for me. Please, please, what? What can I do? Well, Charles, I assume that you remember my time in command of the PT-109. Ah, yes. The time you commanded the ship. I do remember it. I remember it very well, sir.

I imagine the memories are flooding back to you, as it will. The memories are very fresh, it must be said. Well, as the starboard hull is now about three feet underwater, it would be absolutely splendid if you could grab the survivors, because it's barely cold. Don't worry, sir. I will swim them all to safety. Oh, thank God. Oh, thank God. And remember Charles? Oh, yes?

You were never here. I will drown myself immediately afterwards, sire. thank God. Oh, thank God. And remember Charles? Oh, yes? You were never here. I will drown myself immediately afterwards, sire. Thank God. Okay. What are we doing today? JFK. Jifk. Jifk. We're doing a biggie.

Brilliant. Yeah. Be interesting. But I'll say no more. Let's just go straight into it let's do this I just can't wait to see if he's a two or one term president

to be honest well we'll find out let's start let's start what are we talking about oh how are we doing it John F. Kennedy JFK

no I'm going to say his full name I'm going to say his full name his full name yeah John Kennedy JFK no I'm going to say his full name I'm going to say his full name his full name yeah John Kennedy no one knows in my defence

no one knows what his middle name is okay it's just F it's just F is that your theory it's like Theodore Roosevelt

Theodore D no one knows what the D is no no Theodore D Roosevelt that famous president yeah D. No one knows what the D is. No. No Theodore D. Roosevelt. That famous president. Yeah.

Oh, it's Franklin, isn't it? There we go. Yeah, there we go. You're cutting this, aren't you? Oh, no, no, no. It's staying in. It might go at the end. It's staying in. This is gold, Jamie. Can't get rid of this. Podcast gold.

It doesn't grow on trees. Hello, and welcome to the Roman Empire. Hang on, hang on. For a start, we're not doing Romans. And also... Oh yeah. Let's actually have an intro where it's not you mumbling. Fair enough, yeah. John F. Kennedy!

J. F. K. You can choose. I can choose. I'll probably go for the longer one, because that's how we've done all the others. John Franklin Kennedy! John Fron Kennedy. That was his

name. What cruel parents he must have had. We'll get into that. Right, let's do this. Let's go. Hello, welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rancium. I am Jamie.