American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 39.1 Jimmy Carter

Episode Date: May 6, 2023

Jimmy Carter has the honour of being the first living person we have covered. In this episode find out about his early life, his smile, and his not so humble peanut farm!

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Timothy Carter, Art 1. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 39.1. It is Jimothy Carter. Oh, brilliant. Or Jimmy Carter, as some people know him as. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's very exciting, though.

He's hanging on. Well, I mean, yes. Shall we talk about this immediately, shall we? I have actually got some of this in my notes, because this is the first living person we have ever covered. And we've covered like 200-plus people in our time as podcasters. And we have never covered a living person before. But, oh, oh, it's close.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, usually we'd say things like time of recording, oh, it's close. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, usually we'd say things like time of recording, tongue in cheek kind of thing. But Jimmy Carter is old now. I mean, there's no way around it. He is 98 and he recently went into hospice care. Yeah. Realistically, he will not be lasting much longer. But.

So hurry up, Rob. Quick, hurry up. Well, yeah, exactly. We need to get on with the episode. And he is officially the first living person we have done. So before we start, do you want to set us off on our visual journey? What year was he born? I can sort of...

What year was he born? 1924, Jamie. Okay. So long ago. Let's give it like a 1920s kind of vibe. Well, of course he course yes he's 98 i could have worked that out um uh let's go for um 80s lots of neon lots of leg warmers spandex okay right um big shoulder pads that kind of thing open on neon spandex shoulder pads

yeah that's all one thing. That is... I'm struggling to comprehend that. Well, that's what you're opening on. If you're already struggling, well, who's wearing them? It's a peanut, Jamie. A peanut? It's a peanut, and he's doing aerobics in the 80s. Nice.

What? Yeah, he's doing aerobics, and he's doing a workout. And there, who's in the room with him? But obviously, Jimmy Carter doing some exercises. Oh, brilliant. Yeah. And Jimmy turns to the peanut and says, long time no see, peanut.

And the peanut with his spandex neon shoulder pads turns to him and says, oh, Jimmy, it's been too long. What have you been up to? And then Jimmy pulls an interesting face and goes, well, it's been too long. What have you been up to? And then Jimmy pulls an interesting face and goes, well, it's a long story. And then suddenly from the side zooms in an armchair, Jimmy sits down, a fire comes up and then it's story time with Jimmy Carter comes up on the screen. What the f*** was that? That is our start to our Jimmyimmy carter episode why is there a peanut doing aerobics jamie don't ask

why is there a peanut doing aerobics ask why we haven't had one in all the other episodes that's actually a good point i have felt something's been missing exactly right okay so the aerobics nothing to do with jim. The peanuts, yes. Oh, okay. Yes, so we'll see. But we are starting, as you say, in 1924. 1924 on October the 1st in Plains, Georgia. And guess where we are?

As in what type of building? Is it like a farm thing? No. Is it an apartment? No. Is it a farm thing? No. Is it an apartment? No. Is it a chicken coop? No. Is it one of those outside toilets for the crescent moon?

No. Is it a church? No. I'm going to start fading you out and I'll fade you back in once you get it right. Is it... I've hated it for a very long time. Is it like a department store? No.

Is it an office? No. Is it like a department store? No. Is it an office? No. Is it a governmental building? No. Janitor closet in a governmental building? No. Is it like an office in a governmental building? I feel like I've misled you with governmental building. Damn it. The White House? No. Is it like an office in a governmental building? I feel like I've misled you with governmental building.

Damn it. The White House? No. That's not in Georgia, is it? No. Is it like the Georgia Senate building? State Senate building? No.

Is it? Help! If you asked a five-year-old this question, what would they say? Help. If you asked a five-year-old this question, what would they say? School. No. Home. A hospital, Jamie. We're in a hospital.

Oh. See, now you say it, of course. Because Jimmy is the first president to be born in a hospital, which is a really interesting fact. Yay. Yay. Apparently everyone before has been born in every single one of those buildings you've just mentioned. Yeah.

Systematically. It's impressive how you did that. Yeah. Yeah. Starting with Washington, that was the first building you mentioned, and then it continued. Yeah. Yeah, we're in a hospital.

Jimmy Carter, born in a hospital. Jimmy Carter, born in a hospital on October 1st of 1924 to the parents of Bessie and James Earl Carter. It's like James Earl Jones. It is like James Earl Jones. So I can only assume. And we're recording on May the 4th. So yeah, Jimmy Carter's father is Darth fader yes yes may the fourth be with you gandalf says in harry potter exactly so james earl came from a family of successful southern

cotton farmers dating back to the pre-independence days yeah see where they come from but currently though he's running a grocery store that That's slightly better, isn't it? Bessie was a trained nurse with progressive views. That's why she was in the hospital, because she was a nurse. Yes, exactly. And that's why she wasn't screaming racist views, because she has progressive views. Yes, they're coming together.

At the age of four, Jimmy's family moved to a place called Archery, where I can only assume someone once fired an arrow they are so good at naming so good at naming yeah this was two miles down the road so they hadn't gone far it was a town of about 600 people these are farmers and rail workers mostly mostly very poor mostly black james earl had just purchased a 350 acre farm on which they grew various things, but mostly, Jamie, what did they grow? Cotton. No, no, this is a callback.

This is something we've already... Cotton? No, no, no. Something we've already mentioned extensively in the introduction. Peanuts! Hey, there we go. They grew peanuts. Peanuts. Peanuts is the main crop of the area, and their peanut farm is doing all right. You don't think of peanut farming, really, do you?

No, because they're not nuts. They're beans, aren't they? Oh, are they? Yeah, yeah. Legumes. Legumes. Llamas? Something like that. Yeah. Anyway, by this point, Jimmy had a little sister and another one on the way, so other family members are being born. But being the eldest son, Jimmy spent a lot of time with his very stern father,

who had that voice, who really, I mean, you didn't mess around. You are my son. I know. James Earl took his farm very seriously and also his church very seriously. He apparently liked to drink and party as well, though, so it wasn't all serious. Yeah, helmet off at some point. Yeah, so again, the Darth Vader parallels are definitely there.

Yeah. Quite often you'd find Darth Vader end of an evening. Slipped over a pool table. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so what did he wear apart from his helmet? I know you're dying to ask me Well, James Earl wore a hat all times, apparently Yeah, I mean, back in these days people wore hats

But in winter he wore a fedora and a Panama hat in the summer Really spreading far and wide with his fashion choices then Yes, yes, it was good So he'd just order his little Yes, yes, it was good. So he'd just order his little boy, Jimmy, around the farm, calling Jimmy Hotshot. That was Jimmy's name. That's what he was known as.

Or even Hot for short. So he just became Hot. James Earl did not believe in hiring anyone if he could do the work himself, so he took on many roles on their farm, and quickly he trained little Jimmy to help out. So little Jimmy would turn the hand cranks and blow the furnace and things like that. Yeah, exactly. Use the force, Jimmy. And when he was old enough, he was introduced to Sunday school,

and James Earl would take the kids camping and play games with them and read the Bible to them and all the stuff that you would do at Sunday school. with them and read the Bible to them and all the stuff that you would do at Sunday school. Yeah. Yeah. Telling biblical stories about fathers and sons. Yeah, that's all good. And how they always betray their father.

Yes. James also taught Jimmy to hunt game at an early age. And Jimmy apparently was sometimes late for school, covered in feathers, because he joined his father in a morning hunt. And he would run off and scare the game, and then his father would be able to shoot it and stuff. So, yeah. All fun and games.

It appears Jimmy spent a lot of time with his father in these early days, and he learnt a lot about morality, religion, and life in general from his father. But mostly, he learnt how to lose. That's a valuable lesson, though, to be fair. It's a valuable lesson. James Earl was the kind of person who you come across fairly often if you're a teacher, who believed that you should not talk down to children, or indeed pander to them, at all.

And what that meant was defeating them in every single competition you can. It's the only way they'll learn. Yes. So James Earl built a tennis court around this time and proceeded to absolutely demolish young Jimmy almost on a daily basis. Come on, son, we're playing tennis. Oh, yay. Yes, character building, character building.

The same was true whenever they went hunting or fishing. It was always a competition, and Jimmy always lost because he was a child before long jimmy was cutting sugar cane with a machete looking after eight cows a whole bunch of hogs and chickens he was loading wagons he was pruning watermelons doing all sorts with peanuts he was generally being a farm laborer yeah yeah helping out with the family farm but he also went to school and in georgia as you can imagine at the time society was obviously very segregated so he went to an all-white school however in archery where he lived as i mentioned almost all black residents so jimmy's school was very small did

not have many children in it. Out of school, however, Jimmy had two closest friends. This was A.D. and Edmund, and they were just local children who happened to be black. And this was just normal to Jimmy, because obviously that's just him growing up. He also saw many black people in positions of authority growing up. The farm had grown and now had several farmhands, and the chief of this was a man named Jack Clark, who took Jimmy under his wing and taught him how to do lots of stuff around the farm. Also a local bishop who was a frequent visitor was black, and he got on well with the Carters. What I'm trying to say here is that by growing up in Georgia in a family that weren't overtly racist, we appear to have a president who grew up fairly well-balanced

when it came to race, despite coming from Georgia. Now, obviously that's not to say Jimmy didn't see racism around. We're talking about being in Georgia at this time. It was everywhere. Jimmy's family in the past, as you immediately noticed, would have been a slave-owning family. He came from a family of cotton farmers. The Carters

took place in what they called the War Between States, how they referred to the Civil War. And yes, they fought for the right to keep slavery going. You just can't escape it, obviously. James Earl himself probably would have been shocked if anyone accused him of being racist. He was, by many accounts that we've got, better than most white people at the time in the area. But like I say, it's impossible to get away from the embedded culture of racism at the time. Famhans in later decades when interviewed recalled James Earl as being a man who hated idle hands. In fact, I quote, people in those days were all kind of mean and I guess he had to along with the rest of them. So could be a lot worse

okay but he's definitely definitely seeing some things that aren't great little jimmy would have been too young to understand the nuances of embedded cultural and institutional racism he would have just seen overt racism happening being heaped upon people he knew and liked and he would have developed some opinions of this at the time so that's that's him growing up things then get a bit tougher because obviously he's not too old when the great depression comes around of course yeah yeah most businesses fail banks start to close down this is looking very tough for most people but the carters were among the few very very lucky ones because the shop they owned closed down,

but James Earl had managed to save enough money through the farm to just about keep the debtors at bay. And because he did have some cash when everyone else was desperately trying to sell land, he was able to pick up some very cheap land and also managed to buy a mortgage company. Buy a mortgage company? Yeah, yeah.

Wow. People were selling things left, right and centre because they had no money, so obviously everything was worth next to nothing. So he was able to just buy things up for cheap because he just about managed to scrape through. So because of this, as the economy starts to slowly improve, as we saw, it took a while,

but when it does, the Carters were in a very good position. Now, by this time,immy is not quite so little anymore he's in high school now he had a near blind teacher called miss julia and again this is a very small school uh miss julia taught all the children throughout the five years in one class oh imagine differentiation in that oh it would have been a nightmare but then also probably no scrutiny whatsoever you could probably just do what you want as a teacher it would have been a nightmare but then also probably no scrutiny whatsoever you could probably just do what you want as a teacher it would probably be fine she'd been teaching for 50 years by this point wow yeah i mean she'd started teaching um let's see she would

yeah she would she would have started teaching in the 1870s bloody hell yeah she was apparently firm but fair and like like I say, half blind. The boys would quite often chew gum because she couldn't see them. But what she'd do, right, is she'd go around the classroom at the end of the lesson and smell their breath. To see if they'd been chewing gum during the lesson. Can't get anything past blind old Miss Julia. See, I'm actually glad you said that because I had an image of her just like blindly shivering her fingers into the children's mouths.

Just rummaging around. What's this? Just yanking something out. What do you call this, little Jimmy? My tooth. Yeah. She set homework. Oh, she set homework.

She set homework in the kind of way that I only wish I could set homework, just to watch the children cry. One night she gave Jimmy Warrenmy war and peace to read one night i can only assume he had longer than one night he was he was 11 years old jamie so for our listeners that's the exact age that me and jamie teach uh yeah yeah i'm tempted i'm tempted to give war and peace i'll be kind though i'd let them just read war one night and peace the next night it'll be fine yes it's better to split it up.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they also had to memorise Kipling poems, the poem If, for example, they had to memorise from scratch. So, yeah, that was the kind of thing they got up to. Jimmy did well enough. He was, in fact, a straight-A student, apart from music. Not much talent there, but he did. He was doing pretty well for himself at school.

When he was 14, he wrote this in an essay. Do you want to hear it? Yes. Okay, here we go. A person who wants to build good mental habits should avoid the idle daydream, should give up worry and anger, hatred and envy, should neither fear nor be ashamed of anything that is honest and purposeful. What did you write when you were 14, Jamie? I like boobs.

And it wasn't even the word boobs, it was just... No, bobs. To be fair, Bob was a good guy. Yeah. So yeah, that's the kind of thing he was writing. But he had a playful side he wasn't always just writing things that would eventually be put on like a feel-good meme on the internet uh no he he wrote in a classmate's yearbook roughly the same age now i lay me down to

sleep with a bag of peanuts at my feet if i should should die before I wake, you know I died of stomach ache. It's a humorous ditty, Jamie. That is very funny. About peanuts, nonetheless. Of course. He loves to talk about his peanuts. He does like to talk about his peanuts. Well, I mean, the whole area was all about peanut farming.

You probably couldn't move for people talking about peanuts. Yeah. Mr. Peanut was probably the headmaster of the school is he called mr peanut you know the guy i mean percy nut is that his name peanut i don't know i'm not already talking about the nut that has the monocle and the top hat probably probably friends with the monopoly man yeah i don't know who you mean i don't know well he was the head teacher anyway i have to look up his name yeah anyway uh after uh people stopped laughing so much at this humorous ditty uh weeping they were crying laughter slapping their thighs uh

they picked themselves up off the floor they looked around and realized actually times are hard for everyone his very son stops the laughing people are poor. People are poor. People are struggling. Jimmy was seen as the rich kid because his father's business hadn't gone under, basically. Because of this, he avoided being bullied. He found school easy. Apparently there was quite a bit of bullying in his

school and Jimmy just stood to one side of it. He didn't get involved. He wasn't picked on because he was rich. He didn't do the bullying. He kept himself to himself. There is in fact only one recorded time of Jimmy misbehaving. Are you ready for this? Oh, go on.

Okay, he and 11 other boys bunked off school on April's Fool's Day. Um... Oh, sorry, you wanted more to that anecdote. Yeah. There's no more okay i'm lying there was a tiny bit more when they did it they drove in a hot rod car which is quite cool that is quite cool yeah but i mean that's it that's they didn't do anything exciting they didn't

steal a cannon they didn't it's not like ferris bueller's day off kind of thing possibly but ferris bueller's like second day off that was never filmed. Yeah, yeah. It was just really boring, so it never made it to the big screen. Straight TV film that one was. Yeah, he was grounded for a month for this, so that's exciting. And in a farm, being grounded literally means being buried a little bit. Yeah, go and sleep with the peanuts. But apart from this, things were going relatively well for the Carters and Jimmy. Like I say, their business was doing good enough that James Earl could afford a car. Very fancy. And also...

Motorised horse. Brilliant. Motorised horse and also magic lights. Are these the ones that vibrate and make crackly, sparkly sounds? Yes, they're the ones. You just have to put the magic wires in your walls and look, the magic lights yeah we've got electric lights we've got a car and also a water tank that had plumbing so they had an indoor toilet that flushed and everything it was fancy times it is it's fancy times technology is moving and things are looking good at the castle household if like

us now going to somebody's house they've got one of those talking toilets. It has like a B-Day in it and just like says, how are you today? And play soothing music in the background. Makes comments on what you had for dinner the previous night. I'm assuming that's what talking toilets do. I'm guessing so. That's what they should do, yeah.

Ah, today so is dressing to the left. Ooh, I'd have that checked if I were you. Things like that. Handy things. Yeah, it was a little bit like if I were you Things like that, handy things Yeah, it was a little bit like that A little bit like that Anyway, so, things are looking good A chunk of the money that was coming into the family Was from rent that they were collecting

From poor families renting off them So they had become Like land barons, essentially Jimmy himself had a little bit of land Himself that was given to him At this point One square yard land barons essentially. Jimmy himself had a little bit of land himself that was given to him at this point. Oh. So, yeah.

One square yard. Which is nice. In later life, Jimmy recalled that he'd ride on his bike to go and collect the rent, completely oblivious to the squalid conditions that these families were living in. Oh. And there, yeah, I mean, there's, just imagine,

there you are, your family, your poor, and this rich white teenager comes along on his bicycle to collect the rent off you. Like I say, overt racism, and then, yeah. To Jimmy, though, completely over his head. He recognises it later in life, but at this time, it was a quick buck for him. He was happy with that.

And getting a Quick Book was something that teenage Jimmy was very interested in. How to make money. He and his friend BD had collected old newspapers one summer and sold them to markets to wrap fishing. This was back in the day where you could just have an idea one day and then go out and make a bit of cash, which is quite nice. Yeah, exactly. That was an example of one of the early things they did,

but they got a bit more inventive with their ideas. They started gathering scrap metal, which brought in a bit more money, and then one summer they used an empty shop, because there were plenty of those around, to sell homemade burgers and ice cream. Nice. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't find information

on how they went about making their homemade burgers and ice cream. Nice. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't find information on how they went about making their homemade burgers and ice cream. Sudden disappearance of pet cats in the neighbouring area. Yes. Was that because they were forcing them to make the ice cream? Yes. Yes, cats are very good at making ice cream. Yeah, main thing. Yeah. Okay, so he's making money, he's doing well at school, it's all good. Then at 16 he's able to get a job for that's right what does every 16 year old want a part-time job doing it's working for the agricultural adjustment administration oh hell yeah oh yeah i remember being 16 and wishing just wishing yeah no no his job was to check if farmers were following the complex rules on how much they were planting over how much acreage. Exciting stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. We get one story of this time where Jimmy was doing this and one farmer started to beat the crap out of Jimmy. Oh. Yeah, because Jimmy came along and said, Oh, you're breaking the law, mister, he said. I love you. The farmer was not happy.

I couldn't find any details about this But you can imagine why a farmer during the Great Depression Was furious at the government And the agency Right now, immediately, this spotty kid Telling him that he was doing something wrong Yeah Yeah

Well, there you go Anyway, 1941 rolls on Jimmy graduated high school. This man's still alive, Jamie, and he's graduating high school during World War II. That's insane, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway, he is the first of his father's family, anyway,

to graduate high school. So well done there, Jimmy. You're doing well. And he knew exactly what he was going to do. Have a guess. It's 1941. Sign up. Yay. There we go. So which force is he going to do. Have a guess. It's 1941. Sign up. Yay, there we go.

Which force is he going to go for? Car. Carter. Car. Something to do with cars. Was it the Air Force or Navy? The Navy, Jamie. Got it in two. I'll give you that. Can have a ranking point. Yay! I've not given one of those out for a while.

No? No no i haven't he later said that he didn't want to do this because he wanted to kill people um i'd like to think he said that a lot whilst his eye was twitching no he's polishing his gun yeah no he wants to do this uh because he wanted to get a college education which he'd get if he joined the Navy, and then he got to travel the world. It makes sense. I mean, what with the growing sense in the country that they needed to join the war,

at least in areas of the country, it's easy to see how it would have been very alluring to a teenage boy from a small town in Georgia. Yeah, opportunity. Yeah, let's go and see the world. Jimmy was worried that he had flat feet, however, but he had an ingenious plan. He would say he doesn't.

Yes. No, no, even better than this. Step one, go to the shop. Check. Step two, buy a bottle of Coke. Step three, drink the Coke. Step four, put Coke bottle on the floor. Step five, roll your foot over coke bottle.

Ah. He's applying the coke bottle method. Yes, yes. Tried and tested. Why is a flat foot? Is it when you don't have an arch? Yeah, or I think it's when the arch of your foot's quite weak.

The arch of my left foot's really weak. If I do too much walking, it's just agony, and I'm limping all over the place really bad. So he was worried about that. So to counteract this, not only was he doing the Coke bottle technique, he also did push-ups every single day he ran. He got himself fit.

Yeah. Yes. He also read, however, that bed-wetting would mean that you were excluded from the Navy. Now, as far as I can tell, this was not a problem he had, but it kind of got into his head, as things sometimes do. It led him to be worried about making sure that he was fully dry after going to the toilet, just in case he then got into bed and then someone accused him of things. A few dribbles.

Yeah, in fact, in 1976, in the electoral campaign, to the amusement of many reporters, he told this story saying, and I quote, I was always ashamed to ask whether that last clinging drip would block my naval career. I'm guessing it wouldn't, but you never know. No. So he applied to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, and while waiting for a reply, he studied at Georgia Southwestern College. His father was able to use his growing clout in the community to help Jimmy get accepted into the Naval College. Always good to have someone having a word in for you.

Here's a bag of cash. Well, by this point, his father's started to get into local politics and rub shoulders with people. Yeah, so a little bit of help there. Jimmy spent a year studying at the Georgia Institute of Technology first to receive additional technical training. He didn't feel like he was ready, but he's got his position. He's got accepted.

He's going to get through a bit more education first. And then in June of 1943, he heads to Washington, D.C., and then on to Annapolis, and then starts his studies. Hooray. Yeah. And he found it hard. Very hard. Jimmy was fairly introverted, as I've kind of hinted at before.

He didn't really get into the thick of things at school. Yeah. He only got in trouble once. And suddenly he's in the middle of all the rough-and-tumble culture of the armed forces, especially with the whole hazing of the new recruits. This was just... Yeah.

Yeah. This was something that... It was completely alien to him, and he found it very difficult. I read in a few places that this was back when the hazing of new recruits was the thing, unlike nowadays. And I thought, really? Really? Did we not do that anymore? I'd be interested to know. But yeah, apparently it was quite bad back then. I'll quote him here, I don't think there was anyone who got more lick with the bedpan or a broom at night. So he got picked on quite a bit.

But bullying, hazing, it was seen as a natural order of things. Jimmy and his classmates would have to eat under the table like a dog. They were locked in wooden trunks overnight. They were forced to squat through meals. They had to sleep on top of lockers. Essentially, they were put through torture By their classmates Because they were a year younger But hey

Fun and games Yeah Character building it is dammit Yeah definitely One of the main reasons apparently That Jimmy got into trouble and why he was targeted Was his smile. I got beat with a serving spoon twice for not wiping a smile off.

27 licks each time. Yeah, Jimmy Carter was one of these people with a natural smile that just kind of stayed on his face. He had a resting smile face. And you're in the armed forces, damn it. You're in the Navy. It's a serious business yeah is that a smirk recruit uh yeah that's not what you want no after a while he wrote in his journey and i quote over five months till xmas i hope i can stand it he's having a really hard time by the way uh slight aside here because i went to go and try and look up these journals and i could only find extracts, but what I did find amused me.

It reminded me a little bit of Hayes, looking into a personal journal and just finding something amusing. Because sometimes he would quote other people, and if that person had sworn, when he was quoting them in his diary, he would censor it. So one example is, Johnson told me to get my D-D nose out of his plate. Dead? Dead nose? I'm assuming. Assuming damned. Damned. That's not even a swear word. It's not bad. I mean, it's not like he said, get your nose out of my plate. My plate, you...

Yeah, exactly. But no, none of that. He was also very precise. It shows you a little bit of how Jimmy was, at least at this time in his life. On his 19th birthday, he doesn't even mention his birthday, but he does write that he walked 4.6 miles that day, 8,642 steps. Oh, that's a lot of counting. That's a lot of counting. Or, no counting, but figuring

someone might read this one day and be impressed if he had a good number, and he made it up. I know that's what I'd do if I wrote a journal. Yes, it's what I'd do if I had to write notes for a history podcast. There was no Uncle Jimmy Carter ever. After a gruelling first year, things started to pick up, however. His second and third years involved military training, which he much preferred. One time he learned how to land a seaplane on water, which terrified everyone. Yeah, yeah. Apparently it's not fun doing that.

No. It's worse than on land. Water's soft. Everyone knows that. It's like landing on a big pillow. Yeah, be fine. Yeah,

how high could it be? He did sea duty on the old USS New York. This was a World War I era battleship. So as you can imagine,

this thing was held together with duct tape. He cleaned the toilets. He manned the guns during alerts. He did stuff that you'd imagine you were doing if you were training on a boat.

However, it was becoming clear to everyone who was in training it was not likely they were going to see any action. By the time they graduated, the war would be over. Gosh darn it. Sorry, gosh D dash dash N it. That's better. So, Jimmy was disappointed. But apparently not as much as many of his classmates.

He took it slightly better than everyone else. Apparently he wasn't as keen to get shot at and killed as some of his classmates. Life goals. Jimmy threw himself into sport instead. He played football, baseball, basketball. He did some boxing. Probably played tiddlywinks.

Who knows? Whatever game. Cribbage. Yes yes he probably played cribbage i couldn't tell though i mean you could play right in front of me i wouldn't have a clue still do not know we have been asked recently whether we ever learned how to play cribbage no from someone uh no still to this day i don't know if it's a card game if it's like monopoly no idea someone tried to play it in front of me not long ago. I walked away. I walked away, I did. I'm the same with backgammon as well.

I don't understand it. Well, we'll add that to the list of things we refuse to find out in our lives. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, sounds good. He and a friend developed a love for classical music around this time. Oh.

The past that were drowning, yes. They would pool their spare cash and they would buy records and a record player uh they had a particular for wagner and then in april of 1945 news came through that the president fdr was dead roosevelt and get this had been president since jimmy was eight years old wow yeah roosevelt he lasted a long time as president. He did. You kind of forget. It's like, oh yeah, there would have been people who, like,

they're graduating college and he's pretty much the only president they've ever known. Yeah. Wow. Jimmy openly cried, apparently. Very, very emotional for him. Soon after this, word came through that the United States had dropped the atomic bombs on the populations of two Japanese cities.

And soon after that, the war was over. I think the next day after Nagasaki, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. It was like, okay, fair enough. Very soon after that. A couple of months after this, Jimmy turns 21. And guess what he does? Buys a beer.

Very close. He immediately went out and bought a pack of cigarettes. His father had made a promise to him that he would buy him a gold watch on his 21st birthday if he didn't have a cigarette up until then. And Jimmy did it. He did not have a cigarette until his 21st birthday. And eventually he tried it and he hated it. Only cigarette he ever smoked.

He never smoked again. Considering that almost all of his family died young of cancer due to smoking, this was a smart choice, it would appear. Yes. That's why he's lived the age that he's lived. Possibly.

I mean, life's complex, but yeah. Anyway, Jimmy came 60th out of 820 in his year, which is very impressive. That is. But despite this remarkable achievement, he had not really stood out at the academy. It's the same as when he was at school. He just kept himself to himself.

He wasn't someone who got picked on. He wasn't someone who did the picking. He's just to the side. He's getting on with stuff. Still, he's happy to graduate. His family come and watch, and they bring someone with him, Jamie. This is 18-year-old Rosalind Smith,

and this is Jimmy's fiancée. Oh. Yeah. That came from nowhere. Where? Where did she come from? Did he know? Is this the first time Jimmy has met her?

No, I've skipped part of the story, and now we're going to flashback to make it flow slightly better. So it wasn't quite so bitty. It's a narrative tool, Jamie. Oh, I like it. That's what I'm using, yes. So who is this Rosalind? Well, she was the daughter of the neighbours of the Carters.

Yeah. Yeah. Her father had driven the school bus. Oh. Yes. And when he was 23, he met his future wife. Guess where they met? I don't know.

I'll remind you his job was driving the school bus, Jeremy. Oh, on the bus. Yeah, yeah. His future wife was 13 year old Ali. The two wed after Ali finished school three years later. And she was soon pregnant. Yeah.

Bad bus driver. Bad bus driver. Yes. If you remember, Jimmy's mother was a nurse and she was the one who delivered the child. And this child was Rosalind. Now, flash forward 13 years. Rosalind is now 13, hence the 13 years.

Yeah. Yeah. But when she's 13, her father dies, and the family were in financial struggle. But they were still good friends with the Carters. Rosalind, in particular, was close with Jimmy's sister. Now, by the time Rosalind, in particular, was close with Jimmy's sister. Now, by the time Rosalind graduated high school and started college, she had developed a massive crush on her friend's older brother. Now, you know what it's like. Oh no, you're an only child. Maybe you don't necessarily

know your siblings' friends that well at all. You might only occasionally see them, and that's kind of how it was. She didn't knowimmy even though his sister was one of closest friends but when she started going around her friend's house who was in this picture on the wall in a dashing uniform all of a sudden it's that can't is that your older brother oh wow thanks rosalyn love his smile yeah look at that smile and that that dashing uniform this is not how i remember your brother oh when's he coming home? She would say things like that. Yeah, no, well, he's away at the academy right now,

but he comes home for holidays. Yeah, Rosalind apparently became obsessed with this picture and just started to just fall in love with this person she invented in her head. Oh dear. Yeah. So Rosalind tells her friend, bravely, I really fancy your brother.

And Jimmy's sister, her name was Ruth, by the way, more than happy to try and set them up. She didn't just go, oh, no, that's my brother. Maybe she did, and then she relented. Who knows? But yeah, I'll set you up, she says. Anyway, Jimmy comes home from the academy in early 1945 for a holiday, and his sister suggested a double date.

Me and my boyfriend, and you, and oh, I don't know, my friend Rosalind. How about that? Well, Jimmy was casually dating someone at this time, but she was out of town. So, yeah, go on then. Why not? So they went to the movies. And guess what happened, Jamie? They watched a film. They watched a film, and then on the back seat on the way home

they did a bit of smooching. Did they? Ooh. Oh yeah, on a first date. On a first date, Jamie. So, there you go. All very exciting. The next day, Jimmy woke up and told his mother that he was going to marry this girl. Yeah.

Yeah. His mother was not impressed. In fact, I quote,immy she's a little girl she's ruth's friend yeah yeah yeah uh jimmy wasn't put off by his mother's disapproval however which he suspected was more to do with the fact that rosalind's family was poor it was a wrong side of the tracks kind of thing rather than a she's your sister's friend kind of thing yeah however jimmy goes back to the academy and once there the enthusiasm wears off he's he's back into his studies and there's other girls around so he starts dating other people how it's how life works often um but he then received a letter from rosalyn where she suggested that maybe, just maybe, she might

be aware of other boys. Jimmy, very jealous about this. He was openly dating other people. Rosalind just hinted that maybe she might think about dating someone else. And this helped Jimmy realise, oh, no, no, no, no. I'm feeling very jealous here. No, this is the woman I want to be with. So when he went home for Christmas that year, he proposed. Aww. Yeah, and obviously Rosalind said no. Damn it. Again, there's a lot of this.

There's a lot of no's in this podcast. Two proposals. She said she had to finish college first. She had promised her dad on his deathbed that she would finish college. So it's what she felt she had to do. So they agreed to tell no one about it and they just carry on.

However, Jimmy's not about to give up that easily. He's listened to the rest of this podcast. He realises that every other president almost was rejected immediately when they first proposed. He's going to go in again. So he does. And he proposes again. And guess what she says?

No. No, she says yes this time. Oh, hey. On their second try. Yes. It's like passing your driver's test. Yeah. It's like, it doesn't matter if you don't pass first time.

It's nice to pass. You hit a few pedestrians. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Again, they decide to keep it a secret. They don't want to upset people or make a big fuss, but they know they're engaged,, it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Again, they decide to keep it a secret. They don't want to upset people or make a big fuss, but they know they're engaged, so it's fine. But it does not take them long.

Eventually they're too excited, so they tell their families, and apparently no one was particularly happy, which is really sad. Yeah, the Carters didn't say it out loud, but, yeah, they kind of looked down on Rosalind's family. And Rosalind, but, uh, yeah, they kind of looked down on Rosalind's family. And, um, yeah. And Rosalind,

by marrying a Navy officer would have to drop out of college because she would have to go and live on the base. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and that went against, against the wishes of her dying father. Well, her dead father who was dying when he made the wish.

Yeah. Uh, but they're going to do it anyway. Um, shortly after this, Jimmy buys his fiancecée a gift. A packet of peanuts. It would have been so much better.

Oh. Are you ready for this? Yeah. It was a book. Oh. It was a guidebook. Oh. It was a guidebook for Navy officers. It was called The Navy Wife. Oh. Go on, guess what it did.

Like how to support your husband and what's expected of you. Yeah, but that would be far too progressive because that would be like being written towards the woman. You've got to direct this book towards the man. So it's what your wife should be doing for you rather than what you should be doing for your husband. Yeah. It goes through possible wives that Navy officers could have

and then points out the preferred model. Do you want to hear some? The Model T. Go on. Okay, here we go. Apparently one was the regal girl. Right. She was too hard to live up to and she talked too much avoid that one right

the athletic girl avoid that one too mannish yeah the clinging vine apparently according to the uh the manual this went over fine with midshipsmen from Dixie because the southern gentleman likes their women to appear helpless, weak and willing. Brilliant. But you shouldn't really do it. No. No, no. So what did the book suggest the preferred wife

of a naval officer should be? Quiet and subservient. It's almost as if you've read this. It's called The Natural girl jamie right it really hammers home it's like that's nature intense damn it this was i'll just uh paraphrase but quite closely here this is a woman who was easy on the eyes with pretty soft brown hair the semblance of a natural wave in the hair. She has a willowy figure, a ready smile, dresses well, and is adaptable to regulations. She is good, cheery, an excellent dancer, never chatty, and has good manners. I've summarised that for you even better.

My own words, looks good, knows when to speak Which is pretty much exactly what you said at the start Yes Yeah, so there you go But it's okay It's okay Jimmy understands that giving that to someone Might be a bit insensitive

It's hardly a personal kind of gift, is it? Was it a joke? Don't worry He made it personal Oh Under the description of the natural girl a personal kind of gift, is it? Was it a joke? No, boy. He made it personal. Oh. Under the description of the natural girl, he wrote in his own hand,

you, darling. Ooh. Yeah. Ooh. How did she react to that? Does history remember? I couldn't find out. Oh.

I really wanted to. I tried. I tried looking up the original version of this book and I couldn't find it. So I could only find extracts of it that other people have written about because I wanted to look into this book in more detail. But unfortunately, I couldn't find it. So there you go.

Anyway, shortly after Jimmy graduates, Rosalind travelled up with Jimmy's parents to watch The Graduation, which is, if you understand how this narrative thing is working, Jamie. I think I'm getting there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's good, isn't it?

We should do more of this. Yeah, I like it. So there we go. We're back to where we were. And then two weeks later, they get married. Hooray! Yes, there's little time for a honeymoon, however, because Jimmy gets his first assignment.

And it was one of the worst in the Navy. Is it the thing where you have to clean out the latrine? Yes. Actually? Yes, but it's even worse than that, because where is this latrine? On a ship? Yes, and what ship is it? Is it still the old World War I ship?

Even worse than that. He was assigned to the USS Wyoming, which was docked in Virginia. This was a battleship that was even older. It predated World War I. It was falling apart so much that it wasn't allowed out of Chesapeake Bay. It's like, good God, whatever we do, don't put this in the open water. If it accidentally bumped into a fish, there's no chance. It's so dangerous we'd end up breaking the sea.

It's just, no. Keep it safe. No, this was not fun. This was, as you say, end up breaking the sea. It's just, no. Keep it safe. No, this was not fun. This was, as you say, mostly cleaning out the toilets and being electrocuted regularly by the dodgy wiring on the ship. Brilliant. Yes. But it wasn't all being electrocuted and cleaning out poop

because Rosalind got pregnant around this time and they have their first son called John. Aw, John Carter. As in their first son who was called John, not their first son called John. They didn't have a procession of Johns. No. A year after this, they move again, this time to Connecticut. Still not fun.

The ship's captain took a dislike to Jimmy. By this time, Jimmy was just fed up with the Navy. He wanted to quit, but he felt honour bound to stay on. I mean, he joined up because of the excitement of war and everything and now he's just being electrocuted and scrubbing toilets. That's just not what he wants to do. In his bunk, he hung up a sign

that just said the words Who Cares on them. Oh, moody, dark. Love it. He started wearing a lot of black, a bit of lipstick. He got his hair done in a way that suggested that he was really, really suffering on the inside and no one understood him. Mom.

But still a crisp navy uniform because of regulations. He rarely saw his wife and child, as you can imagine. He could only see them a few days a month at most. Rosalind found this very hard, but she hid it from Jimmy, fearing that he wouldn't understand. And after all, this was her duty as the wife of an officer.

Well, she was a natural. Exactly, yeah. Meanwhile, Jimmy sought a way out of the job he hated, because after two years of service, he was eligible to apply to a submarine training programme. After two years, you could choose to specialize in something if you have academic ability, and Jimmy certainly did. As we've seen, he gets good grades. So he decides, yeah, submarine, why not? Let's do this thing I hate above the water, below the water, and see if it makes it any

better. Hell yeah! Yeah! And Jimmy excelled, the academic side of things. Brilliant. Hell yeah. Yeah. And Jimmy excelled the academic side of things. Brilliant. No problem at all.

He also passed the claustrophobia test which is interesting. Yeah. That sounds like it could be horrific. Oh yes it really does. I mean I imagine

being locked in those lockers when he was training actually. Oh yeah. Good training. There you go. Character building

damn it. Yeah it worked. Character building. Yes. See bullying is fine. Oh, yeah. Good training. There you go. Character building, damn it. Yeah, it worked. Character building. Yes. See, bullying is fine. It's fine. Yeah, he enjoyed learning about the submarines. It was fascinating technology.

He found it all very interesting. He came third in a class of 52. So, again, we're seeing this continuation. He is a high flyer. And he was placed on the USS Pomfret in Pearl Harbor. Ah. Ah. Yeah. So off to Hawaii they all go,

and whilst in Hawaii they have a second son, and it's around this time he nearly died. Oh. Yes. Because one night Jimmy was on watch duty on top of the submarine. Right. So the submarine, I assume, is like on the surface of the water here, not underwater.

We can only assume. I am using my inference skills. Deductive logic states that it must have been above the water. Yeah, he was on duty on the tower. You know if I've got a big tower bit in the middle? Oh yeah, the thingy. So he was stood on that, watching, making sure that, I don't know, they weren't invaded or something.

When suddenly a massive wave hits the submarine. They're on patrol and they're in the middle of nowhere and this massive wave just hits them. And he is thrown off the tower into the stormy sea. Oh. Well, actually, no, not quite, because as luck would have it, the way the wave caught him, it picked him up and slammed him against an artillery gun, which he was just about able to hold on to.

Ooh. Yeah. If he had missed grabbing onto the gun, he almost certainly would have been swept out to sea, never to be seen again. That was a very lucky escape for him. And certainly put a blight in his presidential aims. It's hard to predict how events can change history,

but I'm willing to guess he wouldn't have been president had he have died at this time. Anyway, this storm was so bad that the pomfret was reported sunk and all the families were told everyone was dead. Oh. That's nice, isn't it? Yeah. But as luck would have it for Rosalind,

she didn't get the message uh and when she did get the message they'd already found out that the submarine was safe so she didn't have to go through the horrible real thinking that jimmy was dead but lots of people on that submarine uh had to go through that can you imagine those like your horrible husband your poor suffering wife gets the message, massive party, woo, he's dead, he's dead, walks through the door. Oh, yeah. Probably happened.

Probably dead. Anyway, there was more trouble a few months later when a drunk officer forgot to close a valve. You don't want to be on a submarine with someone who forgets valves. Valves sound very important on the submarine. You don't want a be on a submarine with someone who forgets valves. Valves sound very important on a submarine. You don't want a hole in your submarine. No, yeah, everyone almost drowned, but it's fine, they managed to fix it up.

Anyway, Jimmy spent most of 1949 patrolling the waters around China. There were fun times. When he was on shore leave, he would party like all the young men in the forces did. Meanwhile, his wife and children were at home. It was life in the forces. Then the Korean War started. Jimmy asked to be reassigned to something a bit more interesting. He was just patrolling around doing nothing.

And the family were moved to Connecticut and then San Diego. And then he was assigned to the USS K-1. The K-1 was a much more modern ship. He was used to being in rust buckets. And suddenly he's on a modern ship. Jimmy liked this. This one has lights. Yes, exactly.

And when you press them, you don't get electrocuted. It's amazing. Yes. A year after this, he got to know a man named Admiral Rickover. Now, Rickover was an engineer who was working on the concept of nuclear submarines. He had this idea that, you know what you could do? You could get these boats that go underwater, and you could put some of those scary nuclear missiles on them,

and then you've got underwater nuclear missiles. Yay! That was his presentation, and there was a big pause, and then everyone clapped. It was great. Ah, splendid, splendid. Bye, Geoff. That's wonderful. Yeah, he was by far the leading man in this field. I mean, the concept of nuclear submarines is very, very new at this time.

And yeah, Rickover was a leading man. And Jimmy happened to get to know him and he wanted to work with him. So he had to apply, obviously. You want to work, get a job, you've got to go through an interview process. Yeah. Yeah, makes sense.

However, Rickover had his own way of interviewing people. Oh, brilliant. That have become slightly legendary in the forces. Okay, imagine you are going for an interview and you go in and you sit down. Yep. And then the man across the desk just starts swearing at you and insulting you. What would you do? Get up and leave.

Well, if you do that, you've lost your job. Yeah. Don't want the job. Well, tough. Okay, could you go and open the window? Yep. Okay, so you've got up and you've gone to open the window. What's this?

It's nailed shut, Jamie. Oh. What are you going to do? Say, excuse me, sir, the window's shut. Well, now you've lost your job. Should I have just broken it with a chair or something? No, that would lose you your job. Think, Jamie, think.

What are you going to do? Five, four, three, two, one. Shoot myself in the face. No, you've lost your job. Yeah, this is the kind of thing he'd do. There were no right answers. He just wanted to see how people would react. He'd give them impossible things to do and just see how they'd react.

Stress test. Stress test, exactly what it was. Yeah. They were asked to choose between their own life or a random street cleaner, for example, was one question that they were given. Anyone who saved the street cleaner or even questioned the idea of killing a street cleaner was shown the door. You want to be working on nuclear submarines.

You are more important than street cleaners. Save yourself, was the right answer, apparently. He would bring in five of his staff into the interviews occasionally and then ask the applicant to convince them that on a sinking boat, they should all sacrifice themselves so the applicant would live. Wow. themselves so the applicant would live. Wow. Yeah. One time he told an applicant to phone his fiancée because the applicant mentioned that he'd just got engaged.

So the admiral said, phone your fiancée and break up the wedding. No. Yeah. Yeah. When the young man picked up the phone, he was shown the door. Don't be ridiculous. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

There's no logical concept behind this it's these interviews sound awful because you can't learn the pattern you've just gotta get it right another story is uh he asked one applicant to piss him off make me angry so the applicant stood up and just swept everything off rick over rick over's desk in one big movement uh he got the job yeah yeah i'd have kicked him the balls i mean that could have worked anyway jimmy arrives at the interview he's heard the stories he really wants the job yeah he sits down he felt very uncomfortable in his chair but he could only figure out what it was uh afterwards that led to him feeling uncomfortable rick over had cut the front legs of the chair short so the chair sort of leaned forwards right so you

could never get comfortable on it so jimmy's leaning forward the whole time jimmy was asked one question at the start what do you want to talk about that's a horrible question to be asked in an interview isn't it um yeah what do you want to talk about? What can you talk about? So Jimmy replied, well, I can talk about naval history. I can talk about battle tactics and things like that, that he thought would be linked to the job. Rickover then drilled him with increasingly hard questions until Jimmy couldn't answer, which I mean, you can do to anyone. It doesn't matter how good anyone is with their knowledge you can just keep doing the adult version of the child going why why why and eventually someone will give up it's a horrible way to do it anyway towards the end of the interview after answering that he came 59th

out of 820 at the academy rickover asked him if he had tried his best. So what do you say to that? What would you say? Yeah. You'd say you tried your best. Well, torn between the truth and the best answer, Jimmy went to say yes and then stopped himself and then said, and I quote, no, sir, I didn't always do my best. Rickover paused for a very long time and then asked, why not?

Jimmy just sat there like like, dumbstruck. He didn't know what to say. So then Rickover just swivelled his chair around back to his main desk and just started working. So a confused Jimmy just sort of got up and left. Awkward. He assumed he'd failed. I mean, it's not great, is it?

He even phoned his wife and told Rosalind that, no, I've not got it. But soon word came in, no, he's got the job. He's in. He would later say that Rickover had more impact on his life than anyone but his parents. He really felt like he learned a lot from Rickover. Being accepted meant he was on the fast track now. The family moved to Washington, D.C., and then to New York, where Jimmy studied nuclear physics. He learned a lot very fast. He was training to be an engineering officer on the second ever nuclear

submarine. Wow. Yeah. This is good. He's going to be near the top of the Navy if he keeps this up. But then word comes through. His father's died. Huh. Was this at the Battle of Endor? Yeah. His father's died. Huh. Coo. Coo.

Coo. Was this at the Battle of Endor? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He took his helmet off. And everyone went, eugh. Look at his face. Poke it.

He looks nothing like Anakin. Yeah, so his father's dead. Jimmy has a choice. He either goes home and runs the family business The farm Or he stays put and rises through the navy I think he stays put Well, in a biography decades later He said he never really was sure why he made the decision he did

But he made one He was going to quit the force and go home Wow Yes You'll be pleased to know that Rosalind was obviously informed about this about five minutes before they did it. Yes, Rosalind was, and I quote, astounded and furious. She had struggled being the wife of a Navy officer to begin with,

but now this was her life and she'd made the most of it. In fact, she started to quite like it. And what she didn't want to do was go back to that bloody town in Georgia and live on the farm next door to where she grew up. Yeah. That was the last thing she wanted to do. As Jimmy made the choice without even talking to her, she was just furious.

He would later, in in speeches refer to this moment with regret at his male presumptuousness. They had blazing rows. Rosalind threatened to leave him and take the children. That's how bad it got. But in the end, she did come round and they moved back to Georgia. Although the entire

car journey there, which as you can imagine, took many, many hours. She just refused to talk to Jimmy for the entire time and only communicated to him through their six-year-old son. Tell your father he's a d***. Yeah, things like that. Yeah, cool. Anyway, James Earl had not been idle since his son had left.

The family farm and the stores had grown in size and splendour and everything else you want. He's got business in archery and in planes now. He was seen as a pillar of the community. He was friends with the governor. James Earl was doing all right. However, things aren't going amazingly. The business was owed a lot of money by people who could not pay because a drought had ripped through the area. If droughts can rip,

do droughts rip? Do they settle? Do they boogie? What does a drought do? I think they gently blow. Okay, so a drought had gently blown through the area. It wasn't good. The farmers were struggling and the carters couldn't collect on the money that was owed them. The first couple of years, Jimmy spent finding his feet. He feared bankruptcy. He often wondered if he had made the right call. But in the end, the drought ended.

And the farm improved. Jimmy was soon not just farming peanuts, but he was also selling peanut seeds to other farmers. He was becoming a supplier as well. I want to create my own competition. Yeah. Yeah, Jimmy had come up with a business model. He would ingratiate himself in the community, much like his father had done. Yeah. But he would do it so much that everyone would want to buy peanuts off him. So he volunteered at church, he volunteered at the school, the library, the hospital, the Society of Prevention of Blindness, the Plains

Better Hometown Programme. He campaigned to get roads tarmac'd and for the town to have a swimming pool. He got a tennis court built. He ran the Boy Scouts. He did everything he could to know everyone in the community. I mean, having that community spirit is quite good is this is he doing this for a political reason is he gonna do what his dad did and sort of get involved oh you get the impression that it's all it's all being done for for good it's being done for community good but it's it's also being done for his business it's also being done for his future uh there's no downside here it. You can support the community, but also get some gain from it at the same time.

That doesn't stop. It doesn't mean you're not supporting the community. Yeah, so that's what he's doing. Rosalind asked him one night, and I quote, can't we just relax and leave well enough alone for a while? But Jimmy was having none of it. No, every night it was a new thing. He's got to go.

He's got to do it. And this was paying off. Not only did Jimmy soon have a wider respect in the community than his father ever had, but he was improving the business with the many connections he'd made across the state. This wasn't just a local thing. He was branching out. People around Georgia were starting to realise who this guy was, and it was bringing in custom.

But soon all this networking changed Jimmy. Did he, like, dye his hair blonde or something? No. As he rubbed shoulders with more and more politicians, he soon began to think about maybe that's the world he wanted to get into. I could do that. Well, yeah, instead of using all of these connections to grow his business, maybe he should use all of these connections to get into politics.

And then, in 1962, a 37-year-old called Sanders became the governor of Georgia. Now, Sanders was a liberal Democrat who had only managed to become governor of a southern state because of some very biased gerrymandering laws that had been in place, had just been found to be illegal and had been removed. What? Yeah, so suddenly it wasn't all tied in, and it was a bit of a surprise, but oh, wow, look,

we've got a Liberal governor of Georgia. Okay, Sanders becoming governor was seen as hopeful to the likes of the Carters, who did not share the racist views of many in the state. Now, on the 1st of October of that year, Carter awoke and got dressed in his best suit. Rosalind asked, well, where are you going? Why are you dressed up in your suit?

And he told her that he was going to the newspaper to announce his candidacy for the state senate. A shocked Rosalind supported the idea. That's nice this time. Oh, fine. Fine, you know what? Whatever you want. I'm not going to argue nice this time oh fine fine you know what whatever you want i'm not gonna argue with this time yeah uh however the election was in two weeks he's already made good grounds though i guess isn't he with yeah that's a very good point his biggest uh problem was a man named moore uh moore and this is why this was a problem had already already won the election. Yeah, I mean, that could be the one thing that prevents him.

Right, but the gerrymandering that it found to be illegal meant that they had to do it again. They had to go through the election process. So Moore's already won this once, but then they had to do another round of it. I see. Because it was found to be illegal. Moore obviously not happy about this,

and Jimmy comes along and says, hey, I'll run. So Jimmy starts his campaign and he called in every favour that he could and he got people talking about him in all the right places but this wasn't going to be easy because the Democratic party boss in the region thought that Carter was too

liberal, especially on his opinions of race. He's not a racist by Jove. Yeah, pretty much. So, the party boss threw his weight behind Moore. Now, by too liberal by race, this essentially meant that Carter had

refused to join the White Citizens' Council. Ooh, that's not a good name for anything, is it? I'll just let you figure out what that organisation actually was, shall I? Did they wear, like, big hoods? Into fancy dress a lot, I hear.

Yeah. Just ceremonial, to get into the spirit of things, that's all. Yeah, yeah. Was there a dragon by any chance? Yeah, apparently Carter would quite often just be going on with stuff on days and then suddenly prominent members of society would come and pay him a visit and strongly hint that he'd join the White Citizens' Council stuff on days and then suddenly prominent members of society would come and pay him a visit and strongly hint that he'd join the white citizens council and carter would always have none of it and they were not happy about it and yeah it's all very horrible and nasty but it's fine it's

white citizen council that's nothing to do with the other thing it's fine can't prove anything anyway election day came along, and soon Jimmy learnt what it meant to run against the party boss's candidate. The party boss in the region was a man named Hurst, and Hurst personally showed up at the courthouse where everyone went to vote, and was

encouraging people to vote for more. Was this sort of encouraging with a bat kind of encouragement? Now I know you've said that to slight humour because you've exaggerated what possibly could happen.

I fear that was a swing and a miss. Encouraging was he was literally following people, shouting at them that he was going to burn their houses down unless they voted against Jimmy. I see. Yeah. He then

walked into the booth and started crossing the name Carter off all the ballots so no one could vote for him. Yeah. In the end, there were over 100 more votes than people who voted. That was interesting. Yeah. Guess who won? Was it Hearst by any chance? Not Hurst.

Well, his candidate. Yes, Moore. Moore won. Jimmy wasn't about to give up, though. He spotted something and went, hmm, something's a bit wrong here, he thought. He's been in the Navy. That's a Navy expression that I've learnt about. Yeah, no, this is wrong. He collected evidence of the fraud, and he went

to the papers. He realised going and complaining about it through official channels would get him nowhere so let's go to the press. Many of his friends told him not to bother. This makes you look like a sore loser. Makes you look naive. This is how it's done in this region of the world. But no. No. Carter goes for it.

He's not going to give up. So the story was published and picked up and soon other cases of fraud were discovered nearby and it just became a big deal carter became obsessed with electoral law and stopped eating and sleeping in order to spend more time at the books he was going to become an expert at this eventually pressure was put on the local government enough that the sealed ballot boxes were opened and sure enough many of the ballots were a bit dubious, shall we say In fact, there was a whole pile of them that were bound together with one elastic band

Well, I mean, yeah Which just makes you wonder why It does Why? If you're going to be that bad at doing fake ballots Why even put them in the box to begin with? Why not just make the number up on the count? Yeah Yeah Yeah It's just, anyway in the box to begin with. Why not just make the number up on the count? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just, anyway. It just goes to show that people thought they could just get away with this kind of stuff, because people were getting away with it. It was so obviously fraud. Many people were shocked. This was worse than I even thought. Those ballots were discounted, and

to cut a fairly long story short here, Jimmy ends up winning because of this. Hey! Yes. He wins a fairly long story short here, Jimmy ends up winning because of this. Yes, he wins a seat on the state senate, which is nice. So Carter throws himself into his new job. He often arrived first, he left last. He was really going for this. He was part of a new influx of young Democrats

who had won despite the party machine and therefore did not feel beholden to anyone. They could actually do things like represent the people rather than represent the person who got them into power that's not what a politician does i know so he did this uh job fairly suddenly uh for a couple of years and then was re-elected comfortably by 1966 he was seen as one of the more effective legislators on the Senate. He had promised to read every bill he voted for. And as far as we can tell, he actually did it. No, that's not what a politician does. No, well, he didn't follow the party line.

He was a Democrat, but he didn't see himself as a Democrat. He just happened to be one. And then the current governor of the state said that he would not seek re-election. Now, this changes things. Because Carter wasn't thinking about running for governor. But then a populist segregationist Republican announced that they were going to be running. And Jimmy thought, well, I could do it. If that idiot could do it, I could do it.

I can do this. So he announces that he's going to go for this. Immediately, there were concerns from many that Jimmy's too liberal. Jimmy had made a name for himself in the party for quietly backing the civil rights movement. Now, to be clear here, he was not a loud, outspoken supporter. I mean, that would have killed off any politician's career in Georgia at the time. He wasn't there screaming from the rooftops about civil rights, but he wasn't opposing them. And that was noticed. And a lot of people didn't like it. So one small story sums up how Carter was at the time. So like I say, he's not on the front pages denouncing racism or the unlawful arrests of the peaceful protesters in his state, which were happening at the time.

No. But one thing he had done was learnt how to say the word Negro correctly. Because in Georgia at the time, the black population described themselves as Negro. But many of the white politicians in the state senate would call them Negra. Ah. Yeah. of the white politicians in the state senate would call them negra ah yeah now that's a small difference of a syllable but it was an obvious slur jimmy would always correct people who he was working with he'd point to his knee and then point towards the ceiling and say the word grow to correct them so this kind of sums him up he is not making huge swathes into the discord of

civil rights, but he is quietly just doing a little bit. Now, you can debate whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Should he have done more? Was he just normalising acceptance? That's not for something to get too bogged down right now, but that's what he was up to. It's not much, but it is definitely enough to concern many politicians and many voters who did not like the fact that he wasn't overtly racist. When asked about it from reporters, he replied that he wasn't liberal, conservative or moderate. In fact, I quote here, I am more complicated than that. So again, he's trying not to pigeonhole himself into a political ideal.

I guess the trouble with that is people just think you're fence-sitting. Yes, but the benefit is people will assume that you're whatever they want you to be. That's a good point. Yeah, it can work. We've seen presidents do it before and since. Anyway, there's no doubt by any that he's definitely seen as too liberal. That is just a fact. And this was reflected in the result because he came a distant third.

Did not do well. He lost to a man who had literally chased black people down the street with an axe because they had tried to enter his restaurant. Oh. Yes. Oh. That was a vote winner, apparently. 1960s Georgia.

Yes. Do better, Georgia. So, Jimmy went back to peanut farming. Yeah, the peanut farm, going from strength to strength, by the way. All good. It's about this time he probably met his friend, the peanut, from the start. Yeah, who he met again in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah, probably.

Yeah, that's all good. He was a farmhand. He knew peanuts really well, in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, that's all good. He was a farmhand. He knew peanuts really well, being a peanut himself. Yeah. It was great. It's like he could speak to them. Yes, exactly. And with this peanut's help,

they were starting to pull in about $800,000 a year, which back then was an astronomical amount. The Carters are doing well. He put the money to good use, and he built a team around him that would help him win the next governorship race. He's not giving up on this. He's just going to wait.

He's going to run again. He got people who worked with him last time, plus some new people, and they hit the books. They studied every Georgia election since 52 and they looked for patterns and trends. Racists seem to win. With a year to go, in 1969, a television campaign was set up. That's how proactive they were being. They were really going to push for it. But there

was a problem. The axe-wielding racist was stepping down. And instead, his main opponent was going to be Sanders, the progressive former governor that had been in charge before. Now, that's going to be much harder to beat because he was fairly similar to Jimmy in some ways, but he had experienced. So they decided, okay, well, before we were showing ourselves to not being an axe-wildering racist, so now let's try to go more centre from Sanders. Jimmy would be seen as the anti-left and anti-right candidate. He was the candidate for those who didn't like politics and politicians, but just wanted to get stuff done for the common person.

Seems sensible. Yeah. So they used Sanders' experience against him, saying that Sanders was part of the establishment. He was a wealthy lawyer who had got rich as a politician. whereas Carter, Carter's a poor peanut farmer with a winning smile. I mean, just don't look too closely at how much money he's making on those peanuts. He's a poor peanut farmer. That's all he is.

Yeah. And that smile, wow, the smile did a lot of work. The bright and ready smile that had often got him into trouble in the Navy Academy was actually perfect on the campaign trial. Yeah. Yeah. People shook his hand and looked at the smile and said things like, yes, I do like you. You have my vote.

Yeah. And the campaign was very effective. In September, Jimmy won 48% to Sanders 37. That was in the primary from the Democrat side. And then he easily goes on to win the actual elections. There you go. He is now governor. Pretty good, yeah.

He publicly announced that one of his priorities was going to be to ease race tensions, which was very warmly received from a public, which, I mean, it didn't matter really what their feelings on race were. Everyone had enough of the violence at this point. So easing the tensions would be a good idea. So Carter gets to work.

And to the surprise of his critics, he was actually able to come across as fairly flexible, doing things that appealed to people across the political spectrum. So he pleased the liberals by hiring a leading progressive criminal specialist to reform the prisons. They needed reform. And this was a good step in the right direction. But he also pleased more conservative people by ruthlessly cutting back on the size of the state government. He pleased many people when he started to reform the notoriously corrupt transport department by putting a close friend in charge of it, which amused me.

This department's hugely corrupt. It needs cleaning out. I'm going to put, what, who's this? My best friend. Yes, that's fine. But apparently, no, actually, this was a good move and things did start to improve, which is good. His record on race issues, however, to improve, which is good. His record on race issues, however, despite his promises, was less obviously good, shall we say. It continued the pattern of his political career as senator. He, for example, hung up a picture of Martin Luther King in the state capitol. That was seen as good by many, or bad by many, but they were racist. But apart from making some appointments of black people into government, he didn't actually really do much else apart from put that picture up. Yeah, so, yeah.

Ultimately, however, he was seen as doing a decent job. And generally, people thought he was infuriating the right people, and that's a good sign of a governor. For example, local politicians were very offended one evening when they turned up to a formal dinner and were served food on paper plates and told they could help themselves from beer that was cooling in the bathtub. Yeah. That sounds like a student party.

That sounds fine. Yeah, it does. Sounds good. But the politicians didn't like it. This story endeared him, however, to many who saw these local politicians as corrupt. And you know what? eat your paper plate food. Meanwhile, his team that he'd assembled were getting increasingly ambitious. The Democratic Party, which had been undertaking its tidal shift in policy and appeal for a while now, as we've been covering, made another decision that would ultimately change the party quite drastically. Because primaries, by this point,

were becoming the default way of getting the presidential nominee. So rather than just getting some people in some smoky rooms to make a decision, a nudge and a wink, and we're past our votes your way, we're actually going to get people to do some voting. Ooh. Crazy. In the corner, Sensel Samuel just looked up, gasped.

He's been out of it for a while. What's going on? What was this? He's very old by now, sensible Samuel. That sounds like democracy. Just a solitary tear falls down his cheek. Yes, it was suggested also, I mean, they had to sit Samuel down at this point, that the party adopt proportional voting where women and ethnic minorities were represented in proportion to their populations.

Samuel just passes out. Yeah. They have to revive him. is out. Yeah. They have to revive him. Yeah. Now, rather than going into the nitty gritty details here, which would take a while for time reasons, just know what this is going to do is lead to an end of the power of the local party bosses. We've been talking about local party bosses for a while now, haven't we? Yes. But this is signifying the end here. There was a real feeling of change in the party and also on Jimmy's staff. One advisor wrote a memo saying, and I quote,

National politics has become increasingly issue-orientated. The people who will win the big prizes are going to be increasingly the people who are willing to take risks, particularly in terms of hazarding existing power bases. Nice. So if we start actually being brave and doing

things that, like that people want, rather than pandering to the party, it's a gamble, but we might win big. So, yeah, let's give this a go. Carter's team were convinced that the time was perfect for them. That time is right for a democratic

party to have an outsider lead them. Someone who was not obviously right or left. Someone who was popular obviously right or left someone who was popular but took risks someone with a winning smile for example who could overcome the current distrust in politics now remember we are still very much in an age where being a democrat did not mean you were a liberal yes you've got conservative democrats you've got liberal democrats and the same with the republican party. You hadn't got that shift yet. So they figured that Carter kind of was outside all of that. He was just seen as a decent man, decent politician.

He would appeal to a lot of people. So by December of 72, Carter was convinced himself. He is going to run to be the president of the United States. Oh my goodness. He's going straight for the big one. He's just going for it. He's just going to do it. Yeah, none of us go to Washington, get of the United States. Oh my goodness. He's going straight for the big one. He's just going for it. He's just going to do it. Yeah, none of us go to Washington,

get into the National Senate, or any of that malarkey. No, no. He's going for the big gun. Yeah, was he ready? Probably not. Did he have the experience? Probably not.

Could he do the job better than the current Richard Nixon? Yeah, surely. Surely he could. I mean, a co-hanger could at this point. Yeah, so Carter and his team got to work on the plan. They figured all they had to do was win the Democratic primary and they'd have it in the bag. I mean, okay, that's a big all we have to do. But as the Watergate scandal was hotting up, and then once Nixon resigned, and then once ford pardoned him uh disbelief became even more secure the republicans were in awful awful shape yeah they were seen as corrupt liars

surely it is just a formality that a democrat would be the next president so all we need to do is win the primaries and we we're in. But also, there was something else working in Carter's favour. Because in the midterms, 75 new people had been brought into Congress, and almost all of them had ran on anti-corruption campaigns. Obviously, this is post-Watergate. Yes. And it was clear to both parties, they were going to need squeaky clean candidates for the next election. Yeah. It's all very interesting.

I mean, sure, this is a coincidence, but all of a sudden the really big names in the party seemed less enthusiastic about running for president. I think I'm going to take a step back on this one, I think. Yes, oh no, I'd love to do it. Obviously, I'm going to be president one day. I'd like to sit this one out, though. Oh, that's what seems good. I'll get on the next time it comes round, yeah?

Yeah. Watch me chair from the sidelines, though, lads. Yeah, everyone knew whoever went for the job would be under an unprecedented level of scrutiny. One after another, the big names, obvious forerunners of the upcoming primary, just announced, nah, they're not interested. So Carter and his team see their chance.

This is perfect. Carter set up a meeting with the House Majority Leader at the time and told him, I quote here, I'm going to be the next president. Confidence from the governor from Georgia there. Yes. He pointed out that Walter Mondale of Minnesota, the man widely tipped to be the next president,

has already bowed out. The two leading senators of the time, Ted Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey, had decided not to run. Weirdly. Yeah. Who knows why? It had nothing to do with the scrutiny.

They had no skeletons at all. Not in their closet. Not in this closet. Anyway anyway just don't look in that closet over there could god step away from the closet no um anyway yeah so uh support me said carter i'll get the job done and uh an age to the majority leader later said that they thought jimmy carter was confident and it was nice and that was a nice smile wasn't it but uh no they did not take him seriously at all. This is ridiculous. Sorry, who are you again? Yeah, on the 12th of December, 1974,

Carter formally announced his intention to run. And the country went... Who? Nowhere, really. Yeah, they didn't even ask who. They hadn't even noticed. It just wasn't. Yeah.

Carter's got a problem. No one knows who he is. He does not have a base. He had done a lot of good stuff linked to the environment as governor, they thought, so maybe we could say the environmentalist movement is our base. Anyone think that sounds good? In the 1970s?

Probably not. I mean, it's not bad, but it's not great, is it? No. Okay. Well, he's got mild support from the labour unions and the civil rights organisations, but it is mild support. It's like he's not one of the bad guys,

but he's not really rooting for us, so no, that's not great either. Still, the plan is to do the same as the governor race. Paint Carter as an outsider, a man stepping aside from the usual rules. He is the simple peanut farmer who was not bogged down in the swamp of the political corruption in Washington.

However, Jimmy was not the only one with the idea to run as an outsider, with the big names in the party sitting this one out, there was a lot of interest from the smaller players. And when Carter announced his intention to run, 16 other people were already in the race. And to begin with, his name recognition was at 2%. Oh, that's very low.

That is very, very low. Scarily low. No one knew who he was. was in fact his opponents called him a jimmy who yeah yeah actually yeah to get his name out there more uh this is quite clever it was decided he would write an autobiography and they'd call it why not the best oh now with connections to publishers it solved over a million copies, and voters would be walking past bookshops and seeing the words Jimmy Carter, Why Not the Best? written on it.

And their brains would just tick along as they were off eating their sandwiches, putting their children to bed, sparring coffee, and thinking, Why Not the Best? Why not? Why not? What was his name? Jimmy who? What not the best? Why not? Why not? What was his name? Jimmy, Jimmy who? Jimmy who?

Yeah, meanwhile, Jimmy gets campaigning. This was a new type of campaign. Due to the reforms in the party, like I say, gone are most of the smoky rooms with cigars and brandies and handshakes with local party bosses. Now, it's not as cut and dry as this, and I am simplifying things, but generally there's a lot less of that, and there's lots more of trying to get wider members of the Democratic Party to vote in primaries. So obviously this has a huge impact on how you try and get that vote. The primary candidates had to win over support from a large group of people. Now, what

Carter's campaign realised that many of the others didn't immediately was that this election not only had different rules, but it also was much more susceptible to narrative. So again, simplifying everything here to make it flow better. But instead of gaining support for party bosses and locking in votes with promises and handshakes, candidates now had to go out and get people to vote for them. And these voters could change their mind at any point. They're not locked in with promises, so you had to actually win them over. So candidates had to look like winners. No one's going to vote for a loser. Now, most candidates, remember there's a big wide field of them at this point, were all focusing on New Hampshire.

New Hampshire was traditionally seen at this time as the first big catch. If New Hampshire was backing you, you had a good shot at winning. You were out the gates. However, New Hampshire wasn't the first state to call. The first state to call was the much less important Iowa. Now, what Carter and his team realised is if they did well in Iowa, then that would make voters in the next state notice him. Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not hugely important, but it would mean that his name was out there. Yeah. Oh, incidentally, the Iowa one came in. Oh, Carter. Oh. Jimmy who?

Jimmy Carter. That's who. Oh. Why not the best? Why not the best? Why not the best? Yeah, and so Carter's team figure out if they ran everywhere, which incidentally not all

candidates did, some candidates just ran where their support was strong. So if Carter ran everywhere across the country, and he picked up some easy victories, they could snowball. And then come the big important states, his name would be a serious contender rather than being an also-ran. So Carter throws himself into the also-ran race in Iowa,

campaigning there far harder than anyone else was. Now, as luck would have it, he already was quite popular there, and with a hard push of campaigning and the other candidates all busy in new hampshire carter wins easily nice yeah now cleverly he wasn't in iowa on the night of the victory instead he went to new york so he could immediately take advantage of this victory and talk to the press and the plan worked perfectly the press looking for a story of an unknown underdog for their readers to get behind, because that sells papers,

started covering the campaign of Carter far more than they would have been otherwise. Now, New Hampshire's now up, and to the frustration of the candidates who had spent all their time there campaigning, whilst Carter was in Iowa, Carter suddenly just swans in and arrives with the press interested in him.

A man named Udell had been the favourite to win, not just New Hampshire, but the whole nomination. But the momentum was behind Carter at this time, and his smile and the stories of his peanut farm. In fact, a group of 98 volunteers, who apparently all knew Carter personally, were dubbed the Peanut Brigade. And they went through the state,

raising support for the candidates. Whilst the media followed them because they had a cool name. Yeah. And I can only assume that his friend, the actual peanut was in charge. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

You can't find photos because he's quite small and he just lived under the hat of someone else. Oh, whisper instructions. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, in the end, kill them. Kill them all. No peanuts. I can't do that. Peanut going for a rough time at that point yeah hard divorce yeah anyway uh in the end carter beats adele uh with 28 of the vote to adele's 23 so there you go he's got new hampshire as well people start seeing carter as an actually serious contender. Massachusetts was lost, however, to a candidate named Jackson, but the next big test was Florida. If he can get Florida, that means it's not a fluke.

And turns out it wasn't. Carter gets Florida as well. And by this point, he is considered one of the favourites. But then another man throws his hat into the ring. This was a man named Brown, and Brown had national recognition from his Senate investigation of the CIA, a hot topic in the post-Watergate era, as you can imagine. Now, Brown picked up a few important states, including California, but Carter was able to main support from important people in the party, now saw him as the leading candidate. So with people starting to say, no, maybe we let Carter have this one, and with Carter doing well in the primaries, he was able to roll all this together, and he wins. He would be the candidate for the Democratic Party.

Nice. Complete outsider just comes in, swings, and takes it. Meanwhile, let's swing over to the Republicans, shall we? Because President Ford had narrowly defeated upcoming Ronald Reagan in the Republican primary. So the race is on. It's going to be Carter versus Ford. The unknown southern peanut farmer

with a smile who railed against the corruption of Washington. Or the corrupt president who had pardoned the even more corrupt previous president. At least that's how the Democrats saw it anyway. Surely they had this. There's no way we can lose to Ford.

No one likes Ford. Seriously, everyone can't wait for him to go. He's a placeholder president. And even his party didn't want him. They put him through, but Reagan was the one they really wanted. We've got this. We've definitely got this. Anyway, both candidates play to their strengths.

Ford used the fact that he was president to look presidential. He made speeches in the White House Rose Garden. Carter, however, headed to a stuck cart race where he was driven around the track to cheering crowds. And then once he was done, he ignored his security detail and went and sat with the fans in the crowd. Oh, Cranwell. Yeah, exactly. So a very different style of campaigning. Carter steered away from having strong convictions on big issues, rather letting the public fill in the gaps. Look at that smile. I bet he thinks what I think. Yeah, exactly.

However, soon it appeared the Democrats had a problem. The public liked Carter, but not that much. Oh. Yeah. He didn't have a core base there was nowhere in the country where his support was really strong and that meant the republicans could focus on certain areas knowing that they had some solid states behind them that they didn't need to think about whereas carter didn't have that he had to campaign everywhere and spread himself thin because he had no base.

So things weren't actually as tied up as they first thought. And then Carter shot himself in the foot. Oh. What did he do? He shot himself in the... No, no, he didn't. I really wish. I really wish he did. No.

In the sign of the times, this is the 70s, Carter did an interview for that wonderful magazine playboy magazine because it's the 70s that's not the shooting himself in the foot that was just normal it was the 70s of course the presidential candidate's going to have an interview in playboy uh why not uh anyway uh what was uh what shocked people was that uh in the interview he tried to reassure people that he wasn't pious this was an attack that was going against him from the republicans he's overly pious he thinks he's better than you look at that smile it's smug it's not reassuring it's a pious smile if ever i've seen one uh so carter's uh trying to uh

appear less pious less less stuck up. Yeah. And for certain reasons I'm not getting into, the concept of adultery was brought up in the interview. Ooh. Yes. Ooh, no. Now, Jimmy mentioned adultery and talked about how, although he'd never been an adulterer himself,

he didn't judge people who had committed adultery. In fact, he said that he didn't judge people who had shacked up with someone out of wedlock. He also accused President Johnson and Nixon as liars and cheats. I mean, that's kind of true. Well, the public was shocked. This is a candidate openly talking about sex, Jamie, out of wedlock. Yeah. Yeah. And this is also a president accusing other presidents from both parties as being liars.

Who is this crazed maverick? Here, bring the Republic down, damn it. Yeah. You can't say things like that. You can't say the truth. Good God. Yeah. You can't say things like that. You can't say the truth. Good God. Yeah, so, yeah, he went too far trying not to appear pious and appeared a little bit sort of hippie-ish, free love.

Did he say the word damn as well? Oh, he might have done, yeah. And, I mean, everyone knew that Nixon was as big a lie and a cheat as they came when they came to Presidents, but you can't go around saying that. No. Good God. Anyway, yeah, things started to look bad for Carter, but he then had some luck

because Ford shot himself in the foot. Literally? No. One day, one day we'll have it. It's so good Trump, isn't it? Who can know how well we get there, probably. One day, one day we'll have it. It's so good Trump, isn't it? How long do we get there? Probably. Anyway, Ford wasn't doing a good job in the public's eye.

The economy was failing, as we've covered. There was a perception that he was a bit dim. Remember they went after him for being a bit, yeah, which wasn't really very fair, but that's what they did. The polls suggested that it was a dead heat. The country had two candidates and the public had chosen. They didn't like either of them. They were alright, I suppose.

So come November, no one could call it. The Democrats were mightily annoyed by this. They should have it in the bag. How are they not winning by a mile here uh but no it's close in the end however carter wins with one of the narrowest margins in the united states history 50.1 percent of the elect of the uh popular vote to 48 percent uh looks slightly better than the Electoral College, 297 to 240, but that is, for Electoral College, that is close. Yeah.

So now this unknown peanut farmer had to convince an apathetic and distrustful nation that their president could fix the country. And we'll see if he can next time. Interesting. He's quite likeable, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah, I'd say so so which is a huge relief because yeah it's uh it's been a very long time and i've i've had carter like marked off for a kind of

at least we've come across another decent person at some point yeah yeah it's not since um what's his face um the lollipop. Oh, Hayes. I do get a bit of Hayes. I definitely get a bit of Hayes from Carter. Yeah, that's definitely something there. Perhaps a bit more calculating, but... Yeah, maybe, maybe. Do you think he'll make a good president? I don't know, because you mentioned Reagan's name, didn't you?

Yes. Reagan is definitely on the up and up. Yes. So that will be interesting. Yeah. The actor Yes, okay well we'll have to wait till next time to see whether Jimmy and his little peanut friend

can steer the country to victory whatever they need to be victorious against That's this episode, thank you very much for listening everyone Thanks for downloading us on iTunes Amazon or wherever it is you download. Thank you very much for listening, everyone. Thanks for downloading us on iTunes, Amazon, or wherever it is you download us. Thank you for that.

Yes, and I suppose that's all that needs to be said. Oh, and no, what I will say is thank you for everyone for being patient while we had a break from this podcast so we could wrap up our Roman series. Our Roman series is now done. Every single emperor, all 170 of them, have now been ranked. We ranked the hell out of them. If you've not listened to our Roman series is now done. Every single emperor, all 170 of them, have now been ranked. We ranked the hell out of them.

If you've not listened to our Roman series, it's now there. It's all there. You can now listen to all of them. All in a day. That's the challenge. Yes. Put it on really fast speed. Or put the day on slow speed, whichever is easiest.

We've got to work out how many days we've been recording that for. Oh, that's terrifying. Yeah. Yes. But the good news is if you're not a Roman emperor listener, you just listened to this podcast, it now means I can pour all of my efforts into researching presidents instead of emperors.

So we should now start seeing the presidents fly off the racks a little bit more, which is good news. Yeah. Right. Okay, then. Right. Unless then. Right. Unless you've got anything to add? No.

In that case, all that needs to be said is... Goodbye. Goodbye. Enter candidate number 39. Hello, sir. Sit on the chair. Yes, of course, sir. I apologise. As you can see in front of you, there are two cardboard boxes labelled one and two.

Yes, yes, Admiral Rickover, I can see that very clearly. Next to your right hand is a long 12-inch stainless steel barbecue skewer. Yes, yes, yes, I have it here. Your first task is to skewer box number one from the count of five. So skewer just through the box. Five. Four. Through, just through. Three.

Okay, okay, I'm doing it. Oh, oh, it's a bit of a... One. That was squishy. Congratulations, you have effectively killed the rabbit. Killed the rabbit? You have passed the test. It was a rabbit? You have passed the test. It was a brown rabbit, it was my pet.

His name was Prancy. I've loved him since I was a child. I'm so sorry, sir, I've killed your rabbit. What was in the other box? A white rabbit. Your daughter's rabbit. Oh. The next test.

Remove the skewer and insert it into the other box. Five. But that's the other box. Five. But that's Fluffy, sir. Four. I got it for my daughter when she was five years old. And I couldn't... Two. The rabbit's not really in there.

It's beef, isn't it? One. Okay, I'm doing it. Congratulations. You have passed the next test. Fluffy is dead. That was horrifying, but I mean, it wasn't rabbits, was it, sir? There's no way you'd be able to get Fluffy.

It's just not rabbits, is it? You are very astute. Even though our outreach as a government is colossal, the rabbits were not in there. Oh, thank goodness. I've heard about your interview process, sir, and can I just say it is... Oh, well, it's nerve-wracking, but I'm glad I got through it. Well, candidate, I'd just like to offer my congratulations to you.

Really? I've got the job? No, not quite. But I've heard recently that your wife has recently given birth. Um, well, yes, she gave birth last week. Twins? What's in the box, sir? What's in the box?

What's in the box?! Jimothy Carter! the box? What's in the box? Jimothy Carter. Yeah. Let's do it. Jimmy Carter. I'm really tempted to have Jimothy. That is his name. Just the whole way through, to have Jimothy. That is his name.

Just the whole way through, call him Jimothy. Just watch the angry emails come in. We're British. We can't be expected to get everything right. No. It's not like we went to John Hopkins University. I was just thinking of that. You know what? It's ridiculous how many times I see Johns Hopkins come up now

and I always look at that extra S and go, no, no. It's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong. It's just wrong. We're doing the world a right by refusing to accept that. I think so.