American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 40.1 Ronald Reagan

Episode Date: June 3, 2023

We now come to the father of the modern GOP: Ronald Reagan. The Actor! Just think what thoughts the young Reagan may have had: What will LA be like? Will I ever be a A-list star? And why were there so many damn commies around!? Find out in this episode!

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Ronald Reagan part one. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 40.140, Jamie. 0.1. Which means this is possibly the 80th episode we've done. Yeah. That's a lot. I always think of the Roman one as being really long

and this one being the short one. But that's still a lot, isn't it? Anyway, it's Ronald Reagan, part one of three. Three? Yes, that is right. We are doing three parts on Reagan. There's no way I was getting all this in two parts. Nice.

There we go. Right. And even though it's three parts, there's quite a lot to pack in today. So let's jump right in, shall we? Yeah. I'll give you a softball. Go on.

It's a pair of pants again. Is it literally a softball? No, no, I'm not that nice. Okay. A cowboy on a horse. A cowboy on a horse? How on earth am I going to fit this one in, Jeremy? I don't know.

Okay. So start with that Westerns theme music. Just a sort of whistle. Yeah, there we go. And just a hoof appears in shot. And then as the camera pans out slightly, there's just a lonely cowboy. Evening, man.

Riding through the plains. He's got his hat on. He's got his suede jacket on. Nice. Yeah. Riding his way Through the Californian desert Yeah Yeah

Just like that Yeah All the western music's going on And then suddenly From nowhere Jamie A dinosaur comes in Ah

And eats the cowboy Oh Yeah Like just in one big Like Jurassic Park Off the toilet gulp Nice Yeah

And then Someone shouts, cut. And then it pans back and you realise you're on a set. Oh. You're on a set and the cowboy who was eaten climbs out. But then the dinosaur takes his head off. And then who's in the dinosaur suit? Yes, that's right. It's a young Ronald Reagan.

Oh. And he just lights up a cigarette and passes it to the cowboy and they talk about the Union strikes. Ooh. And then Ronald Reagan hits the screen in Western font. And a big dinosaur chunk comes out of his neck. So, there we go.

Nice. Yeah. I like seeing directors very confused because this isn't in the bloody script what's going on putting on a dinosaur suit and just crashing of a movie that's what he used to do yeah star wars yeah yeah ronald reagan yeah ah jamie we're getting i know we keep saying this we need to stop saying it but we're getting... I know we keep saying this. We need to stop saying it at some point, but we're getting very modern. What do you know about Reagan? Actor.

I know he kind of shaped the Republican Party to kind of what it is now, what it was maybe in the 90s, early 1000s, I think. He had a relatively good relationship with Margaret Thatcher, the UK Prime Minister in the 80s. Okay. And he was quite tall. Oh, Nancy, Nancy Reagan, his wife. Margaret Thatcher, the UK Prime Minister in the 80s. Okay. And he was quite tall.

Oh, Nancy, Nancy Reagan, his wife. Yes. Well, Nancy will be in this episode, but pretty much everything else you mentioned won't be. Oh, okay. Oh, no, he's an actor. You said that. That's in this episode. But we don't start with any of that.

We are starting in 1911, Jamie. Wow. That's a while ago. It is a while ago. We're getting modern, but we're not starting modern. No. We're starting in 1911, Jamie. Wow, that's a while ago. It is a while ago. We're getting modern, but we're not starting modern. We're starting in 1911. And Jack and Nell Reagan have just had their second son in a rented apartment in Tampico, which is a town about 100 miles west of Chicago. So we're in Illinois here.

Little Ronnie Reagan was almost immediately given a nickname when his father remarked, For such a little bit of a fat Dutchman, he makes a hell of a lot of noise, doesn't he? What? Yeah, that's what Jack said about his son. Probably made sense by that. And from this moment on, apparently,

Little Ronnie was called Dutch. Dutch. Yeah. That almost sounds like it could be a really cool nickname. Yeah, yeah. It's a name he much preferred. He hated being called Ronald or especially Ronnie.

Dutch, he thought, was a much more manly name. I hope he said this when he was a baby. I prefer Dutch. Parents obviously really like nicknames because his older brother had a nickname as well. His older brother had quite a round face, apparently. So they called him Moon.

Oh. Which just seems slightly mean. Yeah. Oh, look at Moon. You've got a Moon face. Yeah. So Dutch lived with his parents and his brother Moon. The first six years of Dutch's life was one of movement,

as in physically moving around, not bowel movement, I assume. His father, Jack, was constantly attempting to better himself, but he kept falling on hard times. Not having an easy time of it. They moved around five times in Illinois in six years. This included being in Chicago for a year where his father got a job as a shoe salesman. Oh.

Yeah. Is this pre-1929? Yes, yes. We're still in the 19-teens. 19-teens. Nice. Yes, it's there. Why are you asking before 1929?

I was wondering, was the crash of 29, did that impact his life? Oh, I see. You will find out soon. Yes. So after several moves, they found themselves in a town called Dixon. This was a town of about 8,000 people. So small, not tiny, but it's a fairly small town. The family were poor, but so was everyone in Dixon. So Dutch didn't really notice that he came from a poor family, as most children don't. They're just busy being children. Yeah.

When they were in Dixon, they rented increasingly small houses as their finances failed to improve. And the hard times drove Jack to the old drink. Ah, good way to spend your money. Well, he wasn't a regular drinker, so he didn't waste all his money on drink. Okay. But when he did drink, he drank. He drank.

Yes. This was one of the reasons for the many moves and him having to find new jobs, by the way. Oh. Yes, sometimes he'd go on a bender and just not show up to work and get fired. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, not great. Anyway, by this time, Dutch is approaching nine years of age. He's moved around a lot, like I say,

which means that he's not managed to settle into a school or really make any firm friends. By the time his family moved to Dixon, he had already attended three separate schools, barely completing a year in each of them. Fortunately for him, however, due to the fact that he was taught how to read by his mother at the fairly early age of five, he could already read fluently and he was promoted a grade like they do in America. That's pretty good. You can read, you're clever. Go to the next class. Yes, he went up to grade three. He kind of skipped grade two, apparently.

go to the next class. Yes, he went up to grade three. He kind of skipped grade two, apparently. But in Dixon, he was able to remain for three years in one school. So he finally actually managed to settle down a little bit, make some friends, develop some interest. Jamie, what do you think he got up to? What did he like? Farming. Everyone seems to like farming. Sticks, building things, woodwork, axe throwing. I mean, you can get this. This is a fairly obvious thing that he's going to be into. Acting? Yay, there we go.

Oh, there we go. Yes, sport and performance, shall we say. Football, in particular, caught his attention, but he was a little young to be playing it properly. But performing, oh, he could do that. His older brother, Moon, was doing a reading at school around this time.

Over the last of the people watching. I'd like to think he was the Moon. He was just covering his face in whipped cream. So, not wanting to be left behind, nine-year-old Dutch put himself forward to do a reading as well. Damn it, if Moon's going to do it, I'm going to do it.

Turns out he had a natural talent for this. He left the stage to loud applause. Not quote Reagan here. I didn't know it then, but in a way, when I walked off stage that night, my life had changed. He enjoyed the applause. He enjoyed the limelight The spotlight All the lights But it was not all fun and performances though Dutch as he got older was increasingly aware of his father's alcoholism

Yeah Around the age of 11 He came home to find his father just passed out in front of the house In like a crucifix pose apparently Just on the floor Yeah No one else was around So a little little dutch had to pick up his own father and like drag him into the house that's not fun not fun for a boy to do

he later recalled how this was the first time where he really realized that he's got responsibilities in life his father's drinking caused increasing tension in the house uh dutch later said he used to fear and look forward to things like christmas because he really knew how they were going to pan out yeah yeah i'm going to get the sherry no yeah yeah things like that um so yeah i mean essentially it seems like a fairly nice but poor childhood with a sort of sprinkling of alcoholism on top just to make things tense. Yeah. Meanwhile, he starts to develop more hobbies.

Reading, this time. He really gets obsessed with adventure novels. Possibly, Jamie, pulp novels. Oh. Yes. A reference to a Star Trek episode that me and Jamie recorded yesterday Yes Which probably, if you're listening to this when it comes out, that one won't be out yet

No But, yeah, a little tease for you there Yeah Anyway, yes, he was obsessed with adventure novels Things like The Count of Monte Cristo, The Last of the Mohicans And westerns. He loved a western. Yeah, he did.

Yes, he did. Did he like dinosaurs as well? You know what? I didn't come across the fact that he liked dinosaurs. I'll be honest, I don't know where the dinosaur came from. It surprised me as much as it did you in that introduction. I was not thinking dinosaur, and then there it was. But yeah, cowboys though.

Yeah, he enjoyed those. However, he was struggling to read because his eyesight was terrible. Oh. Really bad eyesight. His mother lent him her glasses one day just to see what would happen, and an astonished Dutch saw the world swim into focus. Oh. As with someone else's glasses, so yeah.

So once he had been fixed with his own glasses, he set out to go and watch Westerns in the theatres with a new appreciation for them. It's like, oh, you're supposed to be able to see their faces. Oh, that's what a horse looks like. Not just a brown blob. God, they're terrifying. Yeah. So by this time, Dutch was in Dixon High School

and his love for football overtook everything else at this point. He became very obsessed with football, a sport that became, and I quote, a matter of life and death for him. I hope not literally. No. Death ball. Yes.

However, unfortunately for Regan, he was no Gerald Ford. He was not a great footballer. He loved playing, but he just didn't have the natural talent for it. He was often put on the bench or just didn't take part in the games at all, just sat on the sidelines to begin with anyway. But apparently it didn't really get him down. He just enjoyed being part of it all. However, he soon discovered a sport he was good at

and he did have a natural talent for and he didn't need to see to do. Baseball? You've got to see where the ball is. You definitely need to be able to see to do baseball. Basketball? No. You need to be able to see where the hoop is. So what sport do you do that you don't need to cite for?

Blind darts. Blind darts? No, it's not blind darts. Swimming, Jamie. Oh, yeah. You've just got to go in a not blind darts. No. It's swimming, Jamie. Oh, yeah. You've just got to go in a straight line, haven't you? Go in a straight line. I was thinking, it's like, oh, you could do, like, running, but even then you need to kind of look where you're going, don't you?

Yeah, watch out for bubbles. For swimming, you put your head down in the water and you go, and then you stop at the other end when you hit a wall, I suppose. Ow! So, yeah, no, it turns out he's really good at swimming so he swims not only was this a fun outlet for him a hobby for him it also got him a job yes because he became a lifeguard in a park three miles north of the town this apparently was a lovely spot uh where the river ran through it and the locals developed a habit of swimming in Rock River.

Aww. Yeah, unfortunately, they also developed a habit of drowning in Rock River. So he's a terrible lifeguard. Well, no, no, this happened before. Yes, yes, yeah. Too many people drowned whilst swimming in the river. It had treacherous currents, apparently. Which is lots of little raisins on the side.

Just pulling people under the water. No! Feed us! Feed us all! So it was decided, I mean, I need to hire someone to chase away these treacherous currents. Yeah. And then maybe get in a lifeguard. Yeah.

So, I don't know, let's go and check out the high school and let's get someone on the swim team to be a lifeguard for the town. So Reagan gets the job. He was on call over the summer. He was on call for 12 hours a day, seven days a week. So fairly full on. But, ooh, it had perks. Definitely had perks, this job. He did it for seven summers in a row.

He loved this job. He did it for seven summers in a row. He loved this job. He was paid essentially to hang out in the park where he was given as many burgers and root beers as he could eat and drink for free. He had all the opportunity to talk to all the girls who were there, sunbathing and swimming. For an adolescent,

it was the dream job. He was hanging out in the park, eating, drinking and chatting up girls. Yeah, that does sound brilliant. Just the screams was hanging out in the park, eating, drinking, and chatting up girls. Yeah, that does sound pretty... Just the screams of somebody drowning in the background. Well, no, because actually he was also quite good at it. If we take the very basic job description of a lifeguard, how would you describe?

In one sentence, what is the job of a lifeguard? Keep people safe. Yeah. Make sure no one drowns is what i put but keep people safe yeah i mean he was excellent if you base it on that because in seven years no one drowned hey brilliant yay yes he performed 77 rescues apparently so 7.1 every year uh yes do you think it's that same person being rescued one at a time each year? Yeah. It'll add up. Yeah.

Yeah, this being a small town, the rescues often made it into the local paper because there wasn't much to write about, so boy saves man drowning. It's a story, isn't it? Yeah. So he became a bit of a local hero, he did. It didn't harm that he was a good-looking, strapping, all-American lad in his lifeguard suit and with his fairly square chin and saving people from the treacherous currents. So, yeah, by the end of high school, he was pretty much living the dream life, by the sounds of things.

His job as a lifeguard got him a girlfriend. He was known around town. He was on the football team. He was involved in amateur dramatics. He was having the football team. He was involved in amateur dramatics. He was having a great time. He's the all-American boy. He, in fact, signed other students' yearbooks at the end of high school with a line from a poem he had written himself.

Oh, my goodness. Do you want to hear it? I don't know if I do, but go on. Go on. Remember, this is written by a teenager. Oh, no. It's going to be, like, Shakespearean, isn't it? No, no, no.

Because, I mean, Reagan was many things, but he wasn't Shakespearean. Okay. I'll just read it. Life is just one grand sweet song, so start the music. That's how happy his teen years were, Jamie. Teenagers aren't supposed to be happy. Were you happy? No. Did you sign people's year be happy. Were you happy? No.

Did you sign people's yearbooks with a quote like that? I cried on my own. Yeah, I didn't even sign anyone's yearbook. I just stared at them until they went away. Yeah. Yeah. Growled slightly. Yeah, and I went home and painted my room black.

Like my soul. Yeah, no, Reagan, though. Oh, skip it around town, he is. Loving life. Yes. He was described by one teacher as academically average, but, and I quote her, lifted out of the ordinary by extracurricular activities that taught him a lot of lessons about people, about what they want, what they think about life, and the problems they run into. So he was a people person. Yeah. So with high school over, the next step is to think about college.

Now, Reagan's family, not usual college goers. No. Reagan would, in fact, be the first member of his family to attend one if he was able to get in. But obviously the problem here is finance. Yes. How's he going to be able to get into college? Not being academic, however, doesn't necessarily hold you back in America.

No. As we've seen before, the American school system has developed by this time an attitude of, if you're good at sport, of course you can come to college. It's that whole scholarship thing, isn't it? Exactly. So, ooh, is he a good enough swimmer to get in, he wondered. Hmm. He's got a saving people.

He could be like well yeah exactly he was a good swimmer was it good enough? he wanted to attend a college with an amazing name this was Eureka College oh that's a great name for a college

it's absolutely amazing isn't it? I haven't seen the sign but I'm hoping there's an exclamation mark oh there has to be yeah and he's signing quotation marks as well and there's an exclamation mark oh there has to be yeah and it's in quotation marks as well and there's just lots of old men in bathrobes running around the place yeah yeah so he went and checked out eureka college unfortunately they were willing to give him

half a scholarship yeah so he didn't get a full one but it was enough because then if he got himself a job on the side he could afford the rest so he got himself a job on the side, he could afford the rest. So he got himself a job washing dishes. This really sort of personifies that work hard, get reward for it, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. He's working, he's getting rewards. You can kind of see where his philosophy might lead to later in life. Yes. I mean, the working hard so far has been him hanging around a sunny park. Yeah.

Being given free food and drink. Yeah. But it's working hard. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Washing dishes. That's a hard job.

I'll give him that. Yes. Anyway, so he gets into Eureka. Eureka, he said. Oh, and everyone slapped their knees because that joke never got old so excited about getting in he attended an illegal party he got blind drunk on prohibition booze oh oh yes the hangover was so bad he swore off alcohol for the rest of his college life that's interesting also yeah how aware how aware was he of his dad's use of alcohol as well well that is interesting because it's is it that he woke up with a hangover and then

had a stern word with himself i don't want to end up like my dad yeah it's quite possible but that's what it was um now dutch obviously drinks later on in life, so he doesn't swear off alcohol forever. But apparently at this time he was cautious around it. But he didn't feel the need to do all the drinking. Eureka was a small college, described by some as an academic backwater, which is a shame. But Eureka! But, I mean, this suited Dutchutch perfectly he filled the campus with his personality he starred on the swimming team he coached the swimming team for a while he was on

the baseball team the track team he edited the yearbook he wrote for the student newspaper he joined the student senate he was the senior class president and the treasurer for the drama society. He got his fingers in all the studenty pies. He sounds almost annoying at this point, though. Maybe it's jealousy, I don't know. Well, I remember when we were at uni together, Jeremy. Yeah. And I know that if we were at uni with Dutch, we would have found that annoying, yes. Yes, yes.

But maybe that's more a reflection on us than him. Possibly, yeah. Maybe. Because the only society we were part of was the us-do-drinking-in-the-pub society. Yeah, that's a very good society. It was a very exclusive. Yes.

Very exclusive. And still ongoing as well. Yes. Yeah, so Dutch having a great time. One area, however, that was increasingly important to Dutch was acting. He still really enjoyed his acting. He won an award when the college came second in a national acting competition. I really want to see what an acting competition looks like.

Yeah, read this line. I think it's going to be, you've got one minute to act and then the next person has to out-act you. Yeah. And you have act-offs. To be or not to be. To be or not to be. Half an hour later, it's just strobe lights and dry ice

and people screaming to be or not to be. Yeah. Yeah. Full Anton Arto. They swing in on a chandelier. Yeah. Yeah. No, Dutch, he did well.

He won an award and everything. He was advised to look into a career in acting, which to Dutch sounded very interesting, but also a bit far-fetched. Yeah. He's in a backwater town in Illinois. I mean, how's he going to make money acting? It's a pipe dream. So he didn't really think too much of it.

He graduates with mediocre grades. His talent for memorising information very quickly got him through exams rather than academic ability, but that's fine. That's enough. So he sets out into the wide world to go and make something of himself. Yes. Just as the Great Depression hits.

Ah, there we go. Yeah, there we go. Yes, it was therefore significantly harder for him to find work than he hoped. He applied to get a job working in the town's sporting goods store, but got nowhere. Okay, he thought, what shall I do, what shall I do? And he decided, ah, I'll use some of my connections. Because he had been teaching people how to swim to get a little bit of cash, and he happened to teach the daughters of a prominent businessman in Dixon. So he figured, I'll go and talk to this businessman,

and he can give me ideas, advice. Yeah. A job, maybe. Who knows? He wasn't given a job, but he was given advice. Go and find something depression-proof. Ah. So something that people need no matter what.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So something that you're not going to get rid of it it's absolutely essential uh like radio yeah i mean maybe it's not essential but it was on the rise it was doing very well despite the depression it's a tough time to be alive and one of the few forms of entertainment that was cheap enough was listening to the radio. So the radio was actually doing quite well. And he was told, go and knock on doors of all the radio stations until you get a job sweeping the floor.

And then work your way up. That's how you do it. Fair enough. Literally get in on the ground floor, work your way up. The kind of advice that kind of did actually work back then. Yeah, yeah. Like nowadays. So Dutch heads off to Chicago. That's where

the major radio stations are in the state. He was armed only with his smile and a dose of optimism. What followed was a montage of doors slamming in his face. Go away, kid. No. You've got no experience.

Why on earth would we hire you? No, you're not sweeping our floors, you weirdo. Go away. One person did take some pity on him. They said, you're in the wrong place. You should probably go out into the sticks. Find yourself a small town somewhere with a radio station. Ask there.

You'll do better. Okay, thanks. Dutch, off he goes. He into the sticks and uh he struck gold he got bloody bloody lucky not literally but um he knocked on a radio station and the manager was sympathetic he said i'm not, but you're clearly a keen young lad. How about you give an imaginary football broadcast? Just make it up and I'll see what you like. It's not a job interview. I don't have a job, but let's just see what you like,

because I like the cut of your jib. And Dutch, with his acting skills, was more than happy to do this and really impressed the station owner, enough that he was told, OK, come back next week. You can assist the guy who's doing the sport commentary right now. Nice. Yeah, so, yeah, really managed to impress. This was his inn.

Before long, he was given a job at the radio station. He was going to announce the staffing. So I'm assuming that means the up next. Yes. It is. Baffling Susan. So yeah, he's announcing people on the radio. His voice and his persona fitted the radio

format perfectly. Nice. Had a good radio voice. So he does this for about a year and then the radio station underwent a restructure. Oh dear. As places tend to do uh well you say oh dear but dutch actually did very well out of this he was given his dream job of being the sports announcer oh no longer just being the boring staffing announcer no he was now in there with all the sports stuff uh the radio station had also grown. So within 12 months, he was well known throughout the Midwest as being the regional voice on sport.

He'd become the sport expert. Soon he was interviewing people. He was covering news stories as well as commentating on games. His acting skills really came in handy because the radio station soon realized that it was far more interesting for listeners if the person commenting on the game could actually see the game yeah but how it was being done at this time was via telegram with updates so for example in baseball he would receive a pitch by pitch telegram on what had just happened yeah and then it would just be like a line strike three yeah things like that i know my baseball um well yeah dutch didn't read them

out like that he acted as if he could see it oh and uh yeah he found that by should we say elaborating the few lines of information that he was given, made for a much better radio show. So, yeah, soon he was just creating his own games, making them up. Now, these made-up games happened to follow the same score as the real one. But that was a lot of... Perhaps weren't so dramatic. Yeah, exactly. And he's heading to second base and oh my gosh there's a dinosaur on the

pitch yeah exactly things like that um yeah this is something that uh dutch really enjoyed doing and like i say he was he was good at this the telegram machine broke one day oh brilliant that's a problem because that you can't just go oh the, we're pretending we're not using it. You can't just go, oh dear, I've gone blind. I can't see. But no, Dutch uses his improvisation skills. He simply made up a series of fouls and distractions, quite possibly a dinosaur, until the machine was hastily fixed. And apparently the listeners were left none the wiser

that he was not actually at the game. Nice. Which, yeah, the magic of radio. Yeah. So he's having a great time. His life so far seems pretty good, doesn't it? It does. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever,

but he's had a cushy life, essentially. Oh, yeah. I mean, he didn't have a cushy start. We have had many presidents who started at a very cushy starting place, and he certainly didn't. But things are falling into line for him, and his family are also starting to do better. whose New Deal programme was helping families like the Reagans a lot. Dutch himself saw FDR as an excellent president who had saved his family. He also was a Democrat by this point. Oh, brilliant.

Yes. Brilliant. We'll see when that changes. But it's not all sunshine and roses and made-up sports commentary, because his father suffers a heart attack around this time and can no longer work. So Dutch starts sending money home. But he's doing well enough by this point that he can actually afford it. For him, he's feeling pretty flush, which is good.

He did want more, though. He did enjoy his job, but he felt like he could do more yeah uh in fact he wanted to act he'd wanted to act for a while but acting again it seems like a pipe dream and the only way to earn as much money as he was earning at the present time in acting was to be in hollywood yeah you couldn't act anywhere else and be paid money to do it. So that's what he's going to have to do. If he wants to follow his dream, he's got to go to Hollywood and become one of those people who goes to Hollywood to try and be an actor. However, he does have a little bit of an in,

because as he was interviewing people, he occasionally interviewed someone from Hollywood who happened to be passing through. Not like the big stars or anything but someone who happened to be in hollywood um yeah and one time he was interviewing a woman uh named joy hodges she was a big band singer her name sounds familiar but i don't know what i'm just thinking it is or not oh yeah no no she's she was a fairly big name. Yeah. Yeah, and she had an agent in Hollywood, and she took a liking to this young lad with the square jaw and a twinkle in his eye and said, you know what?

Why don't I set you up with a meeting with my agent in LA? Because the agency that I'm part of are currently growing and they need new talent. So let's set something up. So wheels were put in motion and the result was that Dutch was going to have a screen test for Warner Brothers. Yeah, it just happens. A bit like him getting his lifeguard job and him getting the radio show. To be fair, he went knocking on doors for that one.

I give him that. This one really does seem to just fall in his lap, though. He does the screen test for Warner Brothers. It did not go brilliantly, apparently. Apparently his head looked too small. Yeah. Let's try you with a hat. Well, apparently later on in his acting career,

they got specially made collars for him to make the size of his head look better. The magic of Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah. Just lean towards the camera slightly. Yes. However, even though the screen test didn't go brilliantly, like I say, luckily for Dutch, the studio was also going through an expansion. This was a time of expansion for Hollywood.

And getting more talent on the role was exactly what they were looking for. So you know what? Let's give the lad a go. He was offered a six-month contract, but then, through a little bit of negotiating from his new agent, he was offered a seven-year contract. Wow. Yeah. And just like that, he's got a contract with Warner Brothers in Hollywood, which currently

were the second biggest studio behind MGM. So happy for him. Well, Dutch couldn't believe his luck. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Hollywood career has just fallen into my lap. Yeah. Okay, fine. Hollywood career has just fallen into my lap.

Brilliant. He was going to start off as a B-lister, obviously, but yeah, that will do. So he arrives in Los Angeles. Warner Brothers immediately gave him a makeover. This was the golden age of Hollywood, after all. Studios took their investments very seriously. Yeah, of course.

So this new employee, according to Jack Warner, like the Warner Brothers were still around at this point. Wow. Yeah, so Jack Warner thought that Dutch had potential, but he had to be improved. So to begin with, the look had to change. So he had a new hairstyle, a new wardrobe to wear. But more important than this was the name.

Dutch. Dutch Reagan. And it's not sound like a star. No. Thought Jack Warner. No. We need something else. I mean, Dutch Reagan, it's as bad as Archibald Leach, he thought.

Which, do you know who that is? No. That's Cary Grant. Oh. Or Marion Morrison. No. John Wayne. Marion?

Yeah, Marion Morrison. Awful name. John Wayne. Much better. So they start looking around for a name. But fortunately, for all involved, when the studio actually looked at Dutch's real name, they went, oh, hang on. That actually sounds pretty good.

Ronald Reagan. Nice bit of alliteration there. Sounds right. You could say that along names like James Stewart. Ronald Reagan. James Stewart, by the way, is his real name. He didn't have to change his name either. Yeah. So there you go.

So Dutch was gone. He was no longer known as Dutch. He didn't have to change his name either. Oh. Yeah. So, there you go. So, Dutch was gone. He was no longer known as Dutch. He was Ronald Reagan from this point on. And the studio tried to make him look like a star. It's not easy to do, though. All the major studios were

obviously trying to create stars. Stars brought in the money. But no one had figured out exactly what makes a star. Every time they discovered a star and they tried to emulate them, that next person didn't work. Everyone looks the same. Yeah, and then someone would just come out of nowhere and then they'd be a star.

So they were obsessed with trying to make stars and by micromanaging their actors lives to make them seem as appealable as possible yeah so the hope is ronald reagan will be the next star his first film was love is on the air this was in 1937 and he acted what he knew he played a radio personality yeah yeah who got caught up in a crime syndicate and there was love in the air and all and he acted what he knew. He played a radio personality. Yeah. Yeah. Who got caught up in a crime syndicate, and there was love in the air and all sorts. Yeah.

It was a cheap, cheerful film made quickly. Now, I am not going to go through all 53 films that he's acted in. That would be silly. Yes. But just know, for the next three years, he was making around eight or nine films a year. Wow, they churned them out back then, didn't they? They churned them out, especially these B-movies.

Yeah. Yeah. Reaction to his films were optimistic to begin with, shall we say. He was seen as broad-shouldered with a contagious smile. Some criticised his acting as being a little bit wooden, but not everyone did. Others told their readers to literally flock to the theatres to, and I quote, beg, borrow or steal a look at Ronald Reagan. So there were some signs that maybe this lad would be a star.

However, Ronald Reagan was struggling to adjust to life to LA. He didn't know anyone there. He struggled to make friends. He wasn't actually having the best time of it to begin with. But things then improved because some of his friends from college moved to the city, hearing that it was a land of opportunity. So there we go. He's got some friends now.

And then things got even better when Reagan was able to save enough money to move his parents out west. Hmm. Soon after that, his brother Moon turns up with his wife. So his, yeah, his whole family moved out there with him and some of his friends have moved as well. That's good. So there you go. Sure. That's nice.

Yes. So with his family and friends in the city, he was much happier. Apart from this, his social life, although exciting, was heavily dictated. Yeah. Yes. He had no shortages of dates with very attractive ladies, but only with the women that the studio approved of. Yes.

He had an image to protect. Yeah. And he couldn't just go off and do what he wanted. So when he started to get to know Susan Hayward, for example, Jack Warner put a stop to it. No, no, no. Susan Hayward is far too tough and confident for you. We don't want that as your image.

That's not the look we're going for. So you're going to be a little bit annoyed if you're dating Susan Hayward and they're told you're not allowed to. But there you go. Anyway, his day-to-day work life continued and consisted of acting his way through B-movies that were rushed and mostly very poor quality.

Studios, by the way, in case you don't know, they were used to pad out the double features that were very popular at the time. Right. People would go and see two films, not just one. I guess films are a bit shorter then as well. Yeah, but also, I mean, what else are you going to do with your time? That's true.

And the only way to see films was to go to a theatre, so you might as well make the most of it. But the way that studios could do this cheaply and quickly is to have your big film, your A film, and then your B film, which is where we get B movies from. It was like the other side of the record. Everyone knew it wasn't going to be as good. It was a warm-up to the main act.

But they were also useful because you could use them to test out talent. Yeah. See who impresses in the B movies and then you can promote them up into the A-League. Still, even so, if you were a lead actor for B movies in a leading studio, it's still unlikely you're going to make it to true stardom.

No. I mean, you're close at that point, but it's not a guarantee at all. But Reagan had some luck. Hey, again. Oh, brilliant. Yes. I mean, that look has not let him down at all so far, has it? Amazingly, the leading movie columnist in Los Angeles was a woman who happened to have been born in Dixon, Illinois, that town of 8,000 people. This is ridiculous. Yes. And once she found out that this young new actor had come to LA from her hometown, she took a personal interest in the fellow resident and often mentioned Reagan in her column that had an

estimated 20 million readers. Wow. Yeah. That's a big reach. He got lucky. Because of this, he was soon attending parties with the likes of Humphrey Bogart, James Cagney and Errol Flynn, who were also working for Warner Brothers at the time. And obviously, Jack Warner was starting to notice this guy a bit more

because he was in the newspapers a lot. So that was always going to be good, wasn't it? And he also met someone else around this time on the film set of a film called Brother Rat. This was 21-year-old Jane Wyman. Jack Warner, you'll be pleased to know, thought that Jane Wyman was a Warner, you'll be pleased to know, thought that Jane Wyman was a really good match for Ronald Reagan.

They'd make a good celebrity couple so go ahead, I give you my blessing, he said. Now, because of celebrity gossip columns, it's actually quite hard to pin down what the actual courtship of the two were like. There were plenty of stories, but it was all propaganda

from Warner Brothers. So we just don't really know. And there are some quite dark rumours. Apparently, to begin with, Regan wasn't actually very interested at all and saw it very much as a job. Jane Wyman, however, was very interested and very upset that she wasn't getting any affection back, and very upset that she wasn't getting any affection back, and then took an overdose. Oh. Yes.

Now, we don't know if that's true or not. I did try and find out, and you find places where it just stays as fact, but then I definitely found places where it's like, we don't know this because it's all gossip and everything's covered up. So what we do know is that she was hospitalized at some point. Right. And Reagan visited her in the hospital and proposed there and then. What we do know is that she was hospitalised at some point. Right.

And Reagan visited her in the hospital and proposed there and then. So, who knows? Warner Brothers put out that it was a stomach bug that she had, and that's why she was in hospital. Yeah. So maybe it was that. Yeah. We don't know.

What we do know, though, is they did get married in the end. Oh. Yes, they get married, and they both had a daughter. Yeah. They end up having two children, but just a daughter to begin with. The couple were then thrown into the publicity machine of Warner Brothers even more. They were portrayed as the ordinary family. That's what they were going for.

Yeah. Look at these two. They're just like you. It's the American dream. Yeah. Yeah. How related. Ronald Reagan would be able to act the everyman in all the films. Yeah. Look at these two. They're just like you. It's the American dream. Yeah. Yeah. How related. Ronald Reagan would be able to act the everyman in all the films.

Yeah. Because he is just like you. Interviews and photos appeared in magazines and newspapers. They were the upcoming Hollywood couple. A normal family living in the American dream. In reality, the two were making enough money that they could now afford a large seven-room house in the Hollywood Hills. Wow. Yeah. So, things are on the up and up. Yeah. Reagan's

starting to break into the A-list films by this point. Okay. He was increasingly playing roles in bigger and bigger films, getting decent reviews. In one film, he played a footballer called Gip, or Jip. Didn't think to look up how to pronounce that. G-I-P-P.

Could be either. Anyway, his character is stricken with a fatal illness and he has a deathbed scene. And he, yes, he's able to act. And he says the line to his coach to remind the rest of his team that they could just, and I quote here, win just one for the Gipper or the Jipper. I didn't actually listen to it.

Anyway, the reason why I'm telling you this is that this becomes a very famous line and Reagan uses it later life in his political campaigns. Fair enough. Yeah, just let's win one for the Gipper slash Jipper. I'm guessing it's Gipper. It's going to be Gipper, isn't it? In my head, it'd be like Jipper because it's easier to say, but who knows? It is Jipper. I'm guessing it's Gipper. It's going to be Gipper, isn't it? In my head, it'd be like Jipper, because it's easier to say.

But who knows? It is Jipper. I'm not going to look it up. No. No, ever. It'll be one of life's mysteries. Anyway, so he's doing well. He starred in a film with Errol Flynn at this point,

so he's there with the big names. But in the middle of all this, his father, Jack, has another heart attack. Oh. And this time it kills him. Yeah. Jack had not adjusted to life in Hollywood very well. He had started to work for his son doing admin-y stuff, and he did not enjoy working for his son,

and he'd started drinking heavily. And that took its toll on him, and in 1942 he dies. But Reagan has very little time to mourn, because he's very busy. He made seven more films the next year. His star was rising even more. By this point, a poll said one in four people would see a film just because he was in it. That's a good draw. Which was up from one in ten the previous year.

That's the kind of thing that studio bosses sit up and take note of. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it seems like this is it. Ronald Reagan is going to be the next big star in Hollywood. And we would remember him today in the same way that we remember John Wayne.

Yeah, I guess so. Or Flynn. But then something happens that changes everything. It's the bloody World War, Jamie. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. America joined the war, Pearl Harbor happens

and his acting career just hits the I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. America joined the war. Pearl Harbor happens. And his acting career just hits the reality of the war. Because he was called up to serve. Who? To begin with, he was assigned to San Francisco, where he worked loading troops, loading troop transports destined to Australia. Okay. He was doing that whilst they figured out what he was actually going to do, basically. So they test him physically and find that he can't see a thing. Okay. He was doing that whilst they figured out what he was actually going to do, basically. Yeah. So they test him physically and find that he can't see a thing. His eyesight is

terrible. There's no way you can actually go and join in the fighting. You'll be shooting your own guys half the time. Right. Okay. What else could you do? However, it turned out that someone in the military or the government had actually been thinking, should we send all of our actors and directors and writers off to get shot? Could we do something more useful with them? Maybe. Yes, actually, we could. Let's create the first motion picture unit. And this is what Reagan was assigned to.

Okay. Yes, where they just acted out war. Oh, okay. It was great. I'm sure the soldiers loved that and already appreciated that. Well, this was over a thousand actors, scriptwriters, cameramen, directors, people who could make films, basically. They were tasked with making short films to help the war effort.

Okay. Yeah, it's a very sensible thing to do with the talent that's there. Yeah. Because all of a sudden the American Armed Forces had loads of very well-made training films for the servicemen. They had films that would boost morale. Yeah. They had, let's face it, propaganda.

Yeah, yeah. That they could feed to the troops to keep them happy. I mean, it was a unit that was able to genuinely help the war effort, but it also wasn't the hardest work. I mean, again, I would argue he's lucked out. I mean, you really could say he's lucked out here, yes. Now, Reagan was not one of these people who we have come across before who was desperate to go and prove themselves in the war.

He was very happy staying in hollywood thank you very much in fact he was very annoyed that he couldn't just get on with his normal job yeah because he had taken a pay cut yeah quite a significant one uh he was used to being paid for making some fairly popular films now and then suddenly he's on a government salary. Yeah. But apart from that, there are definitely worse ways to spend the war. Reagan starred in many of these films, as you can imagine.

He had quite a fear of flying. Really? But ironically, he appeared in quite a lot of flying training films. Obviously, he didn't actually have to fly. No. Also, Jack Warner't actually have to fly. No. Yeah. Also, Jack Warner stepped in at this point. He used his clout to ensure

Reagan never played an officer in any of the training films or the morale-boosting films. Is that because he's the everyman? The everyman. Yeah. Exactly. He can't be an officer.

He's going to be the hero, but soldier. So ultimately, it was a very easy war for Reagan. He saw nothing close to combat whatsoever. Like I say he found the loss of income hard but apart from that it was alright. He did in later life occasionally express some regret

for the fact that he didn't actually go and see action but it was more a sense of guilt that other people it wasn't a burning desire to go and see action but it was more a sense of guilt that other people yeah it wasn't a burning desire to go and prove himself fighting yeah yeah now fortunately for him whilst all this was going on jane's career was actually doing pretty well as well uh so they have got some income coming in also his mother got a job opening his fan mail So they were able to bring in money into the family that way. So yeah,

they're fine, but he's finding it frustrating. But then finally the war ends and Reagan is discharged from the military as a captain. He rose to the rank of captain in the end, but he didn't want to be a captain. He wanted to be a major star in Hollywood. See what I did there? Yeah, that's right. Very smooth. Very smooth. Smooth. I'd say it a major star in Hollywood. See what I did there?

Yeah, that's right. Smooth. Very smooth. Smooth, I'd say. It's not even in my notes. I just kept it to myself. Very good. I was proud of myself. Yeah, he got a new contract with Warner Brothers. That initial seven years is up. Time for a new contract. A million dollar contract. Wow. Back then, ooh,

that's a tasty contract. That is. Things are looking promising. I mean, before the war, he was right on the cusp of being like A-list celebrity. So Warner Brothers, new contract, this is great.

As he later wrote, all I wanted to do after the war was rest up a while, make love to my wife, and come up refreshed to do a better job in an ideal world.

Fair enough. As it came out, I was disappointed in all three of these post-war ambitions. Ooh. Oh, no, Jamie. Ooh. Maybe his looks finally ran out. Yeah, finally. Let's see, shall we?

Reagan found himself increasingly frustrated with Warner Brothers. He wanted to be John Wayne, damn it. He wanted to be warner brothers he wanted to be john wayne damn it he wanted to be a cowboy he wanted to be in westerns jack warner did not see him as a cowboy he did not see him in westerns i mean he did do some westerns but he wasn't the star and it's just really frustrating for reagan um because he kept being put in roles that he didn't particularly want to do and did not feel suited him. And the films he did do did not do very well. They were viewed very poorly, and the studios start to lose faith that they actually have a star on their hands.

Around this time, Jane, who was pregnant, gave birth prematurely, and their child died almost immediately. Reagan, however, wasn't there, and their child died almost immediately. Oh, okay. Reagan, however, wasn't there, because he had developed pneumonia on set and was hospitalised himself. Oh, no. Yeah, it was a tough time. Everything looked so good for a while, and suddenly everything's going to crap.

So, hard time for all the family, and the relationship didn't really recover from this. Gossip around town was that Jane was having an affair with one of her colleagues. Reagan had apparently just accepted this and said to someone at the time, Jane very much needs to have a fling and I intend to let her have it. Oh, fair enough. Yeah, but the relationship was falling apart. Jane was fed up of her husband's growing obsession with politics. Ooh.

Yes. Complaining to a friend that it was impossible to get through a meal without him going on a rant about politics. Sure enough, Jane asked for a divorce in 1948. She got the children and half the house, as in half the money for the selling of the house, I assume, rather than just cut it down the middle. Reagan got the ranch and the horses that they now own.

Yeah. Because that's how well they're doing. They have ranches and horses now. So he gets the horses, she gets the children. Reagan's not very happy at this point in his life. No. No. It's about time is all I'm going to say.

It's about time. Yeah. Not sure how happy you will be about depressed Reagan because he is depressed. So what does he do? He just starts sleeping with lots of Hollywood stars. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a tough life being depressed as Ronald Reagan. It is, yeah. I mean, even his depression, he's still, I don't want to say winning, but making the most out of a bad situation. Yeah. Apparently at this time he was dating anyone that he could, but preferably, like, the stars.

But if he was working on set with someone, he'd be sleeping with them. He got over Jane by working his way around Hollywood, basically. For example, he dated the likes of Doris Day, Marilyn Monroe, Ava Gardner, Rhonda Fleming. Many, according to the gossip, he got to know quite well. Some of them he literally just dated, and that's all it was. So we don't know the details. Don't really need to know the details, but just know he's keeping himself occupied, shall we say.

Yes. Things get a bit creepy when he started sleeping with his co-star of a film he was currently doing, which was a 19-year-old who was playing his daughter. Oh. Yeah, Reagan's 39 at this point, so that's a little bit creepy, isn't it? Yeah, very creepy. But this post-divorce distraction was relatively short-lived. It's only lasted months, we're not talking years here, because he found something fairly

quickly to take up his time, something that wasn't him just sleeping around Hollywood. Rather than be distracted with women, he was going to be distracted by politics. Yay! Yes, now as just mentioned, Reagan had already started to be interested in politics, but not in a large national way. This was a much more personal, how does it affect me sort of way. Yeah. Now as we've seen, he came from a democratic family.

He considered himself a liberal Democrat for most of his life. But after the war, a couple of things were going on in Hollywood that had a huge effect on him. One was the labour management disputes that was going on. The other was the Red Scare. Oh, the communist thing. Yes, the McCarthyism. Now, already in with the right people, when the president of the Screen Actors Guild stepped down in 1947, Reagan took the job. Hmm. Yeah.

Now, the Screen Actors Guild, or the SAG, or the SAG. SAG, yeah. Now they call it the SAG. That's a bad name. The SAG were a labor union for actors in Hollywood, just to be clear here. Still around now. Yeah. Now, at that time, it meant it was closely watched by the FBI, as you can imagine. Yeah. The FBI were convinced that communists were attempting to gain control of the film industry and spread their leftist propaganda. So how did Reagan feel about this? Well, the fact that he was already known to the FBI as T-10,

that's, by the way, is not a Terminator thing. It is a code for a confidential informant. Oh, so he's basically grassing on everyone. Oh, yes. That tells you what you need to know about Ronald Reagan's opinions on the Red Scare. Yeah. Oh, dear. Yeah. Let's backtrack a little bit here and figure out how this has happened. you what you need to know about ronald reagan's uh opinions on the red scare yeah oh dear yeah let's backtrack a little little bit here and figure out how this has happened reagan had by this point become obsessed with the idea that the damn commies were destroying the america

that they had fought in the war to protect he was very adamant about this now i could get into the political ins and outs of the various guilds and unions of post-war Hollywood, but to be honest, it's very convoluted, just as complex as going through the whole nation's politics, and we don't have time to do that. So in an attempt to simplify things, but with a warning this isn't the full picture, there was a big battle going on post-war in Hollywood between different unions over who would represent the workers in Hollywood, not just the actors, everyone involved in the film industry. Now, some of these unions were seen as being in the pockets of the bosses. They might as well not be there. Some of the

unions were seen as communist fronts. Some of the unions were seen as and literally were infested with links to organised crime. And all these different unions were battling for control. Striking and crossing of picket lines was getting very nasty as some unions went on strike, others refused to join in. Yeah, it was a nasty time to be in Hollywood. In 1945, Hollywood Black Friday occurred where tensions flared up and the police were called in and proceeded to beat all the strikers. Yeah, there's a lot of violence going on.

Now, again, to be clear, who is striking here are the craftsmen, the carpenters, the painters, the electricians. This isn't the actors. This time, Reagan was a member of the SAG. This is before he became president. And the SAG advised their members to cross the picket line. This isn't our fight. This is their fight. Reagan, to begin with, had been very sympathetic to the CSU.

That was the Union strike. But over the last couple of years, after seeing rising violence and rumours of communists taking over the CSU, Reagan had firmly turned away from the strikers. By this point, Reagan was convinced that communists were here, everywhere, and they were attempting a takeover. He helped co-found a new Labour union at this point that was there to work for its members' rights, but mostly to keep the commies away. Yeah. Now, not everyone in the SAG agreed with Reagan's way of thinking. Most supported the CSU and dismissed the communist talk as fear-mongering. Reagan got into heated discussions with fellow members over the subject. Then he heard it through the grapevine that he was now on the CSU hit list.

There was a rumour going around that someone was planning to throw acid in his face. Oh. Yeah. So Warner Brothers provided him with a gun, which Reagan kept with him at all times for seven months, just in case the communists got him. Yeah.

Yeah, this is how bad it got. Rampant paranoia. Yeahia yeah now as we kind of covered in other episodes yes obviously there were some people who were members of a communist party yeah in hollywood but uh most of this is definitely fear-mongering through the lens of history we can tell that it's just mostly untrue yeah but it felt very real to a lot of people back then, especially to Reagan, who was scared. Understandably, acid to the face is never going to be good. If you're an actor, that's also your career gun. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, this is how Reagan became the largest anti-communist voice in the SAG. He was very vocal on the subject, and he was able to use this to get the votes in 1947 to become the president of the guild. His actions in speaking out vocally against communists made him very popular with large portions of the SAG, because this was the faction that meant people would get to carry on working. However, this signified the last time that Reagan would consider himself a liberal or on the left. By this point, he has just totally left that. He was still technically a Democrat because he had not, what do you call it? Because you register, unregister, that's what you call it.

He's not unregistered as a Democrat. So he was technically still a Democrat, but he wasn't, not in his heart anymore. The actions of the CSU had convinced him that the right was the only way to avoid a communist America. So once he became the president of the Guild, he enlisted as an FBI informer. Soon after, the McCarthy-inspired, shall we

say, House Un-American Activities Committee, which we've come across before, set up and started asking questions of Hollywood. Reagan was summoned to give testimony in which he told the committee that yes, there were definitely communists in Hollywood.

However, as far as he was aware, there were none in the SAG, and even if there were, they definitely don't have power in the SAG. I'll make sure of that. But ooh, yes, definitely commies in Hollywood. So essentially, yes, the Red Scare is real, but not in my house. Despite fearing communists in Hollywood, Reagan was unhappy with the Un-American Committee.

He saw it as letting the commies win win by allowing themselves as a country to fear the communists too much they were stripping away their own freedoms i mean he kind of enabled that slightly yeah he could argue that for a while however soon after the blacklist was released remember the blacklist it was a list of names of people who worked in Hollywood who were no longer allowed to work in Hollywood because they had affiliations with the wrong sort. As we've talked about before, this basically was a career hit list. And if people in power wanted someone on the list, all you had to do was accuse someone else. And that was it. Their name was on the blacklist. It's like what they call the treason trials in Roman times.

Oh, yes, yes. It's very much like that. Fortunately, these people were just, like, chased out of town and not allowed to work, which, I mean, that's a bad fortunately. But they weren't murdered. No. So that's good. Now, despite what Reagan had said earlier about freedom,

he did nothing to fight against these lists. His dislike for communism made it easy for him to hold his nose at the political persecution. Yeah. Yeah. In more cherry news, however, he met his future wife at this point. Oh. It's Nancy.

Nancy Davis. Yes, this is Nancy. Nancy found herself potentially on the grey list. The grey list was an unofficial precursor to the blacklist yeah it meant your name was much you could still get work but not good work and people were watching yeah for any signs of being red um now uh it took a lot less to get on the grey list than the black list i mean just the slightest accusation in the wrong gear, and that's it. However, Nancy was already well-connected within Hollywood.

She easily could have got her name off the list using her connections, but she didn't do that. Instead, she used it as an excuse to go and meet with Ronald Reagan, someone she already had her eye on, shall we say. Yes. And the two hit it off immediately. Nancy laughed at Reagan's jokes and enjoyed hearing him talk about politics.

So already he liked her far more than he did Jane. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not boring you. This is great. Yes. So the two started dating in a non-exclusive relationship. Reagan was hesitant to get more serious.

We're only talking about a year after the divorce. Yeah. But once Nancy joined the executive of the SAG, they started working more closely together. And then she threatened to go to Broadway to get a career in theatre. And it worked because Reagan went, no, don't do that, let's actually get together. Which they do.

And he proposed and they wed in March of 1952. Yeah, now by this time, Reagan is a very different man than the one who had entered Hollywood just over a decade before. He had started as an aspiring actor with liberal beliefs and a passion for sport. Now he took his politics as seriously as anything else.

And those politics had changed a lot. Now, people are complex, aren't they, Jamie? Yeah. Yes. So they say. Well, who knows? It's hard to say, isn't it? But let's hedge our bets and say people are complex.

So it's impossible to state exactly why Reagan shifted from liberal to what for the time was considered the far right. But let's speculate, shall we? McCarthyism was definitely part of it. Liberals had ties to the left, and the left had ties to communists. I won't be having any of that, thank you very much. Finance was also definitely a part of it. Growing up poor, Reagan had not changed his attitudes to money as he grew more wealthy. He was always careful with

his money, and he deeply, deeply, deeply resented the fact that he had to pay the top bracket of tax. Yes, in his mind, he had worked very hard to be earning that much and therefore it was a disgrace that he had to pay so much tax which to be fair i'm sure he had worked very hard but it does imply that the people not on the top bracket don't work hard and they definitely work hard as well so but yeah that's a conversation for another time yes uh anyway other reasons why he was becoming more right-wing. Partly, it's the company he kept. He was now in a friendship group in LA who

were almost all Republican, or at least held right-wing views. So, he was in a bit of a political bubble. And part of it was what he observed around him. For example, in 1949, so this was before marrying Nancy, he had gone to Britain

to film The Beast Heart, which is just a film. We're not going to go into the film apart from that it was set in England. I believe he was a pilot. Anyway, when he was filming, he was appalled at what he saw in Britain. Absolutely shocked him. The Brits had got rid of the war hero prime minister and put in a socialist Jamie. Yeah. Yes, this is Clement Attlee. Yes. Now, in Reagan's view,

all it showed that the Brits had gone socialist. The studio he was in kept having tea breaks and halting the filming for a start. The food over here was rationed. The infrastructure of the country was a mess. The buildings had, like, bricks just knocked out of them and all sorts. They just don't care. They just don't care.

The country is a mess. Now, I don't know if anyone pointed out to him that Britain was recovering from the worst war in history. And, yes, I know America were in that war as well, but it was an away match for them. Yeah, it was definitely a home war in Britain. And yeah, the country was in a mess. This was only a few years after the war. Reagan, however, didn't see it that way. He saw it as a clear sign that the left has destroyed the country. The government helping people had made them all lazy. One example that really annoyed him, the country could not even

be bothered to getting good food anymore. The food there was awful. So he did what any sensible person would do. He ordered 12 steaks to be flown over from America. Right. Yeah. Only for the fridge in the hotel he was staying in to fail ruining his steaks. This would not have happened in a properly run country, he thought. Yeah. This is quite funny. Incidentally, this is definitely where the stereotype of Britain has awful food comes from. It's definitely Americans coming to Britain after the war

and not realising. It's like we've not always eaten like that. It's just after the war the food was shockingly bad for quite some time. Because the ratcheting went on even into the 50s, didn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, believe it or not,

if you're listening in America, the food over here is not actually that bad. It's pretty good. It's not, not as sweet as American food. No. But our bread tastes like bread. Yeah.

We've got some damn good cheeses. Hey, we make scotch in this country. Yeah. Scotland. Yeah. Sort of this country. I mean,

how long can you get? Cider? Yeah. All sorts of good stuff. They call it strong cider, but cider. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, good stuff. They call it strong cider, but cider. Yeah. Yeah, so anyway.

Hard cider. Getting sidetracked here. The fact is, Reagan saw Britain, was absolutely horrified, and decided that it was all Clement Attlee's fault. Yeah. Yeah. The NHS, by the way, had been up and running for a year at this point. Oh my goodness.

And I guess Reagan had no truck with that. Driven him mad. How dare you offer healthcare to people? Yes. Anyway, back home. He was trying to get his acting career back on track still. It wasn't all about being the president of the Screen Actors Guild. But this just wasn't working.

Warner Brothers had gone cold on him. He was not the draw he once was. So he was struggling there. But good news, Nancy gave birth to their first child, which is nice. But it doesn't pay you money, does it, unless you sell your child? And that's very illegal.

So Reagan attempts to figure out, how's he going to get paid? I mean, ideally, become a big actor. But to be honest, I just need to be paid. I want money. I can't keep up this Hollywood lifestyle unless I get a big actor. But to be honest, I just need to be paid. I want money. I can't keep up this Hollywood lifestyle unless I get a decent pay. So he starts looking at new studios. His contract with Warner Brothers was coming to a close, but there was very little interest. When his contract with Warner Brothers did end, there was no fanfare of his leaving. He just kind of left. So he was

back doing B-movies to make a little bit of cash. It was all very depressing for him. And even that was failing. So he starts to do cigarette adverts for magazines. Yeah. And then his agency found a job for him in Vegas.

Where he would appear on stage for 15 minutes a night doing a slightly slapstick thing. The money was better than doing B-movies, but oh, Reagan hated it. Oh, yeah. The shame of sinking so low. This isn't art.

No. I mean, he was being paid more than most people in the country were being paid for doing 15 minutes of work a day, but he wasn't happy. No. He wasn't happy. He'd sunk low. But you're going to be very pleased, Jeremy, because he got lucky.

Oh, brilliant. This is great. I'm so happy, yeah. Yeah, he was offered a job on television. Okay. Yeah. Now, Reagan had strongly resisted this for years, as had pretty much all movie stars.

TV is a step backwards. TV was seen almost as a form of radio back then. There was the film, and then there was radio and TV. But he was desperate, and it would pay. And also, actually, television was coming on leaps and bounds, now we thought about it. Now, obviously, we're not in the modern era we're in now. Big-budget TV shows now are arguably bigger than big budget films. So it was certainly not there, but it was on its first step. It was

starting to be a bit better. It was enough for Reagan to convince himself that TV is actually a good move. So let's do it. And he became a host on an anthology TV show called General Electric Theatre. This was a show that was on every Sunday at 9pm, and it showed an adaptation of a novel, or a play, or a film. Yeah, they just did something different each week. So to keep continuity in the show, it was decided that they needed a host. And who better than Ronald Reagan? So in 1954, he starts hosting the show, but he also acted in the show, not every week, but he did a fair bit of acting. Soon his salary was increased,

and Reagan found the steady income was actually more than good enough to keep him in his lifestyle in Hollywood. But this isn't the reason why Reagan got lucky. That was just a job offer. It was a good job offer, and that was great. But it's reason why Reagan got lucky. That was just a job offer. It was a good job offer, and it was great. But it's not why he got lucky. The reason why he got really lucky is because General Electric Theatre was owned by General Electric. General Electric is a multinational conglomerate which was in the electric business.

We're talking power, electronics, television, radio, all that stuff. Huge, huge, huge company. Now, part of Reagan's contract was not that he would just host one of their TV shows and occasionally star in it, but he would also be the spokesperson for the company. He would tour the country, meet all the employees in various plants and factories. So when he wasn't working on the show, he was touring America. In other words, without thinking of it in these terms at the time, because obviously he wouldn't, but Reagan was being paid to go on a campaigning tour.

Yeah. Now, he wasn't campaigning for anything. No. But he was keeping morale up for General Electric. But Reagan, the political firebrand that he was, soon found that his political views aligned very much with the owners of General Electric. And he was soon telling everyone he met in all the factories and all the plants around America about the virtues of America, freedom, and mainly the right to not have to pay too much tax. That part was very important to him.

Yeah. Oh, and also, watch out for the dangers of big government and communists. So just be aware, everyone. Look out. Now, by this time, he had become a full-on believer in American exceptionalism. Often in speeches he gave at this time, he talked of America's divinely ordained mission for the people to be free of tyranny and big government. He would hark back to Lincoln, talking about America being,

and I quote here, the last best hope of man on earth. He was full on preaching the word. The main message, however, was simple. In 1959, he was interviewed for a newspaper, and the headline was, Reagan Sees Loss of Freedom Through Steady Increase of Tax. He had a little bit of an obsession about this. He does. He really does. Oh, incidentally, by the way, Reagan, his agents, and his bosses figured out a way for Reagan to essentially stop paying his top band of tax at this time, because he was paid a total of 25% of the eventual proceeds of each show that he did, but only a small fraction of the initial run. And for

various tax reasons, this spreading out meant that he didn't go into the higher bracket, but he was still being paid the same amount. I can't claim to actually understand the ins and outs of that, but they found a loophole is all we need to know, so he wasn't actually paying the tax that he was bitterly, bitterly complaining about. Anyway, he was able to afford an even better house in Los Angeles, which is nice. It was stocked absolutely free with all of the latest gadgets that General Electric could provide. Here's a new TV. Yes. Here's electric back scratcher they had to install a new wall in

the house to hide all of the wires wow because it was like the house of the future yeah uh yes so i'm afraid i can't do that ronald exactly uh not long this, they were able to afford the construction of a large ranch house on a brand new ranch that they purchased. So rich, famous, with a steady job he enjoyed and a family, Reagan was happier than he'd been in years. Oh, brilliant. Gone were the really depressing days where he was sleeping with all the stars of Hollywood. Yeah. Everything was good again. Excellent.

Yeah. Everything was good again. Excellent. By this time, his national tours, where he was loudly telling everyone about the virtues of a strong right-wing government, had caught the attention of many politicians, as you can imagine. Here was a relatively popular actor telling people that they should vote for us, said various people in the halls of power. And with the election race between Nixon and JFK hotting up, it was not long until talks were being had. Reagan was more than happy to campaign for Nixon. He told Nixon's camp, it's like, yeah, I'll say whatever you want me to say. I think Nixon is the right choice for America. However, the Nixon camp said, no, no, don't

do that. No, you're still a registered Democrat. It will be far, far more damaging to Kennedy if you stay as a Democrat and just loudly talk about how awful Kennedy is. So, there we go. That's what he did. Well, that'll work. Now, as we saw, JFK squeezed through. It was a tight election, remember?

Reagan was angered by this. He genuinely thought the Boy Wonder was a tight election remember yeah uh reagan was angered by this he genuinely thought the boy wonder was a danger he privately in a letter to nixon compared kennedy to karl marx and hitler in fact i'll just read it to you shall i yeah under the tousled boyish haircut is still the old karl marx first launched a ago. There is nothing new in the idea of government being big brother to us all. Hitler called it his state socialism, and before that it was benevolent monarchy.

So, I mean, not a direct comparison to Hitler there, but it's a direct one to Karl Marx, and it's certainly there. In case you don't know if you're listening, there's an inaccuracy in this statement that I just need to listening, there's an inaccuracy in this statement that I just need to point out. And this inaccuracy has led to a very popular misconception in modern times. Hitler did not push state socialism. He pushed national socialism. There is a difference.

The Nationalist Party in Germany in the 20s deliberately changed its name to include the word socialism to appeal to left-leaning workers. Hitler apparently initially disliked this move, didn't want the word in there, but then saw the benefits because it did draw some people in. The term national socialism was then pushed as an alternative to the increasingly popular state socialism and the increasingly powerful capitalism that was on the rise throughout the world. What's interesting about this, though, is that either Reagan didn't understand this or simply refused to see the difference. This was a private letter to remind you.

He is not a politician courting votes. So in other words, Reagan is a true believer here. Yeah, he really is. He really thinks that Kennedy is a danger to America. Yeah. This isn't someone danger to America. Yeah. This isn't someone courting votes. No. Not for very long, though.

Well, no. As I was about to mention, he obviously was not particularly saddened to hear of JFK's assassination, apparently. Yeah. Yeah, he and Nancy heard the news and then went off to a planned party for conservatives in Hollywood. Fair enough. Yeah, which, I mean, fair enough. Yeah. JFK has obviously become a huge name that rings out in history,

but it's not like everyone in the country would have stopped and wept. Reagan certainly didn't. Anyway, around this time, his contract with General Electric ended, and he got another job as a weekly host for a Western series. Hooray! Yay! It paid the bills. It wasn't amazing.

Because by this time, Reagan had pretty much made up his mind. He knew what his true calling was. He was going to help fix the country he lived in. He was going to get to politics properly. So he finally did register as a Republican. He supported Nixon's campaign to become the Californian governor, which we covered. And a couple of years later, the general election was looming and he threw his support behind Goldwater as the nominee for the GOP. Primaries here, the moderate was Rockefeller. And Reagan

came out swinging for the moderate Republican, calling him the false voice of Republicans. Yeah. moderate Republican, calling him the false voice of Republicans. Yeah. Goldwater then won the nomination. Now, Goldwater's on the right of the GOP. Reagan very much approved of what he was saying. But he also showed that he did have what it took to be in politics.

Because as soon as Goldwater won the nomination, Reagan's rhetoric changed dramatically. Instead of attacking the moderates, like he was before in the GOP, he knew that the right would vote for his favoured candidate, so he started to appeal to the moderates. At one Goldwater fundraising event, he delivered a speech that received a standing ovation. It soon became very clear to many in the GOP, especially the bigwigs, that this man here is actually better at delivering the message than Goldwater is. Maybe someone

we should keep an eye on. So he just keeps delivering speeches, helping out on the campaign. He compared the Democrats to Britain in the War of Independence. The election was an issue on, and I'll quote here, whether we believe in self-government

or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite group in a far distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan ourselves. Yeah, he really does believe what I say. He's really passionate, isn't he? Oh, he is. Aggressively so.

He is. He's really passionate, isn't he? Oh, he is. Aggressively so. He is. He's a true believer. Yeah. We mostly see politicians who are doing things to court votes. That's not what we're seeing with Reagan. But like I did say, he's savvy enough to realise that he can't just say what he wants all the time. He just needs to switch things up.

Now, as we saw, Democrats are riding a high at this point. JFK's died. So that's obviously helped them in the weird way that assassinations often do. But also the Democrats push on civil rights, which at the time was seen as a good way to stop all the racial unrest that was going on. Because of all this, Johnson utterly destroyed Goldwater in the election. Reagan was frustrated. He decided, no, I need to stop campaigning for people.

I'm going to throw my hat into the ring. If you want something done, do it yourself. So he was going to run for the governorship of California. Wow. He hired a staff. He hired a campaign manager. It was quickly decided if Reagan was going to be big in politics they had to hide the fact he was a divorcee with children from a previous marriage.

Yeah, of course. Which really annoyed his eldest daughter. Yeah. Because she was heavily involved in the GOP and she was told, no you can't openly support your father. In fact, we want you to disappear. Oh. She had an argument with her father about this who told her that

there's no point in hiring someone to run a campaign If you weren't going to listen to their advice Which, he's got a point But it's cold Yeah, it's very cold Anyway, Reagan then goes on tour There was a problem right away Reagan was on very firm ground with the big picture stuff

Small government, low taxes He could say that all day in ways that got people interested and fired up. But he had no idea on how state government worked. Oh. Not at all. No, he made a few blunders here where people asked him some very obvious and simple questions

and he just didn't have a clue because he's never been into politics before. Not state politics. Anyway, so people were hired to provide ring binders with easy to access information so he could quickly fill blanks in as as quickly as possible so we spent time genning up on how the state system worked he was personally very hurt when he was criticized at the national negro republican assembly for his opposition on the civil Rights Act. He opposed it? Yes, he opposed the Civil Rights Act.

Big government. That's government telling you what to do. Feeling attacked, he stormed out, shouting, I resent the implication that there is any bigotry in my nature. Reagan truly believed he was not racist. He grew up, he had black friends when he was young, he can't be racist, he thought in his head. He wasn't a bigot, he simply did not see it as the government's job to stop bigotry. It's that simple, he thought. In fact, during the campaign,

about a certain law in California about houses and who you can rent to, which I'm not going to go into because all you need to know is this quote. Reagan said, if an individual wants to discriminate against Negroes or others in selling or renting his home, he has a right to do so. Oh. Yeah. I mean, he's definitely a First Amendment advocate, isn't he?

But, oh my goodness. Anyway, apart from this, it became very clear that he was going to be the GOP candidate. He managed to get the nominee fairly simply. And he went up against the incumbent Democrat Pat Brown, who we've come across before. I recognise that name. Because that's who Nixon was campaigning against. So when he campaigned to be the governor, Pat Brown knew what he was doing.

He was a seasoned politician in the state. Brown leaned into the fact that Reagan was a right-wing extremist who didn't have a clue about politics. Reagan leaned into the fact that he was an outsider. And also, you've seen me in those films. I'm the everyman. You've got to bear with me. So that's how they were framing the narrative.

Brown, however, then shot himself in the foot literally no jamie never gonna be literally one day it will one day uh no um it's bad though uh when on when campaigning he uh went to a school and told a class of school children that he was running against an actor. He then said, and I quote, and you know who shot Lincoln, don't you? Oh, yes. Yeah, that's a dodgy comparison. Oh, it's like, just no, don't say that. I mean, considering this was coming from a veteran of politics, it's just such a stupid thing to say.

It's a very lazy, dumb attack, yeah. Yeah, it's just, like you say, it's lazy. It really is. Anyway, Reagan wins easily, not because of this quote, for various things. The public wanted something new, something fresh. With most of the post-Depression and war problems fixed, the public of California was starting to see the government not as a safety net, but as holding them back from becoming rich and famous.

I mean, if you're living in LA in particular, why are you there? Yeah. You want to be rich and famous. So this was a message that Reagan was very successful in getting across. Vote me in and I'll make your lives better. It was a simple message and it worked. In his inaugural speech, it was very light on the details, as you can imagine, but it was very big on words like freedom. He liked the word freedom, did Reagan. He then started to get to grips with

the state government, something he did not find easy. He knew Hollywood politics inside out. He knew all the minutiae about that because he'd been there for years. But this was like learning a new language. Everything was different. Meanwhile, Nancy was not happy. They'd moved into the rundown governor mansion.

And she did not like it there for her or the kids. So instead they rented a different mansion, a Tudoror style mansion apparently really lovely mansion which was then bought for them by wealthy gop donors of course just so they had somewhere to stay good good good good they couldn't possibly survive in that other mansion no no definitely not anyway reagan had figured out a way to deal with the fact he didn't know state government. And I'll quote him here.

Set clear goals and appoint good people to help you achieve them. Yeah, delegate. He delegated. He was not a micromanager and he realised, well, I don't need to know the details here. I'll just hire people who do and tell them to achieve things. It is a very good way of managing things. I'm a big picture kind of guy.

Yeah, exactly. So he's governor. What's the first thing he's going to do? Knowing what you know about Reagan. Lower taxes. Close. He raised taxes with an increase higher than any other state in all of the United States. Why?

Yeah, that's the first question. But you're about to learn why Reagan is held in such high esteem by a lot of people. Okay. Right. This is the kind of clever move that Reagan becomes well known for. The problem is this. Pat Brown and the Democrats had been, shall we say, creative with the finances of the state. Now, if the taxes continued the way they were, Pat Brown's administration figured that actually things will sort their way out.

So it's fine. Yeah. We can be creative as long as we keep the taxes like this. Yeah. But obviously then they lost the election and Reagan's in. And Reagan wanted to get rid of the high taxes. So how does he do it? So he decides on a plan.

He would, as quickly as possible, blame Pat and then hike the taxes to an eye-watering level. And this had several benefits. Number one, it would plug the hole in the budget that the Democrats had left. Number two, he could plug the hole in the budget that the Democrats had left. Number two, he could blame it all on Pat. And three, and this was most important, it would, in his words, hurt people. Hurt people? Yes, he wanted people to associate taxes with economic pain. This way, if people said the word tax in future, they wouldn't think of services. They'd think of this pain right now.

Very, very Pavlovian, isn't it? Yeah. And it worked. A baffled and infuriated Californian Democratic Party watched as the public were taxed by the Republicans higher than the Democrats had ever dared to dream to do. And the public were blaming the Democrats for it. For time reasons, I'm not going to go into all the details of his governorship of California. But just before we finish, here are four highlights we need to know that he did as governor before we end the episode. we need to know that he did as governor before we end the episode. But that thing with the tax demonstrates how Reagan does things. He's not afraid to just make decisions and go with them.

So, four big things that happen. In 1968, he signed into law an act prohibiting the public from carrying firearms. Even open, like, even with a license. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Now, this was a reaction to the Black Panther group, Cop Watching. Right. It wasn't known as Cop Watching back then,

but basically groups of black men were carrying guns and following the police around to make sure they weren't up to bad stuff. And bearing in mind this is the LAPD in the 60s, they were probably up to some bad stuff. Oh, definitely. Not only that, the Black Panthers were openly carrying guns and protesting in front of the Assembly. The politicians got very nervous about this, and wouldn't you believe it, a law was very swiftly put into place saying, nope, no more openly carrying these guns.

Interesting. Yes. Now, more to say about this later, but I just need to mention it now, because this is an important step on the road to the Second Amendment obsession that would soon infiltrate and overtake the GOP.

Yeah. Yeah, we're starting to see that now. And interestingly, Reagan essentially brought in gun control. Yeah. Yeah. Something that he will deny later on, but we'll get to that in a future episode.

Anyway, around this time also, the mood in the country over the views of abortion were shifting. The obvious health benefits to legalising abortion meant that it had bipartisan support in California. Everyone realised it was a sensible

way to go obviously there were smaller pockets very fierce resistance however now this is six years before roe v wade reagan signs in the therapeutic abortion act so he legalizes abortion yes he was very personally unhappy about it but the political winds kind of forced him into it. This is something he would later really distance himself from. Yeah. A bit like the gun thing. So they're the major things that happen in his first term. He then wins his second term.

Things get a little bit more feisty, should we say, in the second term. He went to war with the students. Hey. The students were protesting the vietnam war oh yeah yeah reagan was having no truck with this they were disturbing the education of people who wanted to get educated he basically saw the protesters as dangerous lefty communists who would bring the country down if they were left to their own devices. He openly relished the idea of taking them on. He enjoyed the fact that they burnt effigies of him.

Oh. Yeah. Saying that when a Berkeley student hangs up your effigy, it's a badge of honour. Things like that. He said other things. Quote here, If it takes a bloodbath, let's get on with it.

No more appeasement. He was all out. Quote here, if it takes a bloodbath, let's get on with it. No more appeasement. He was all out. Get the police in there. Smash some schools together. He called out the National Guard to the Berkeley campus. He shut the process down. There was a lot of unrest over this. So that was going on.

And then finally, linking back to what I first talked about, tax. His main goal. Yeah. Yes. He announced in his second term that he was investigating how the government can now work for the tax giver, not the tax taker, for the truly in need and not the lazy. In an internal memo to his staff, he wrote,

this is our number one priority. I'm asking you to make available your best employees, including directors, for this all-out war on the tax taker. If we fail, no one will ever be able to try again. We have to succeed. Again, it's that very passionate language. The outcome of this was the Californian Welfare Reform Act of 71. The idea was that it would be much harder to get welfare support.

But if you did get it, you got a little bit more. That was the idea. And the number of people on welfare did indeed drop, although due to a natural drop in population by age at this time, this number is questioned. What isn't questioned, however, is that this was seen as proof from those on the right that small government was better for people. Yeah.

Reagan was improving people's lives and getting the lazy people was better for people. Yeah. Reagan was improving people's lives and getting the lazy people to stop being lazy. Yeah. So as Reagan decided not to run again, he was seen by most as a capable governor. Whether you agreed with him or not, he got some stuff done. Didn't go down in history

as being one of the best governors of California, but he certainly wasn't the worst. Yeah. But he's been governor now. So what's he going to do next? President? We'll have to find out next time, Jamie, because that is where we will end today.

Very interesting guy. Weirdly obsessively passionate about certain things. Yeah. Don't think I like him. We have not come across anyone like him yet, have we? No. Because he's not just playing politics. He's a belief.

I thought I would obviously be saying we've not had an episode like this before because the guy was a movie star. Yeah. That is unusual. Yeah. So that made the episode different. But actually, that's not why I'm saying we've not had someone like him before. No. not why i'm saying we've not had someone like him before no um unless maybe if you go back to the very early days where you did get some genuinely like impassioned really believed what they were

saying about the politics stuff and also his his shift to the right i mean obviously hell of a gear change isn't it yeah i mean it's like real life that would have been like a couple of decades so it would have seemed much slower but certainly doing it in this format he's suddenly swinging for the left isn't he and he hates the big government and yeah so well

we will have to see how he gets on next episode. Do you think he will be a good president? I don't know because like you said he's liked by so many people oh he is considered one of the best presidents and if you're a conservative i can i can see why if you're a conservative he is the best president there we go yes well okay you can obviously debate that but um yes there's definitely a huge section of america to this day sing reagan's

praises uh all day uh so we will have to see why yeah yes fascinating yes but that is for next time um thank you very much for listening quick announcement uh before we go although i did allude to this during the episode yes we recorded We recorded yesterday our first ever Trek Totalus Rankium episode for our Patreon members. Thank you very much to our Patreon members who have been very supportive and very patient to our stir. Our output was disrupted somewhat, but we're able to shift up a little bit in gears again now.

And yeah, we're doing a Star Trek series. Yeah, we are. Not just that. Here's the exciting thing. I'm the one who doesn't know anything. Yeah. I haven't got a clue. All right, that's great.

Jamie is researching. He is the main host. Yes. Delivering the information. He host delivering the information. He's editing the episodes. In other words, what I'm saying is that I've got nothing to do with this. Don't blame me. Yeah.

And please, please, please lower your expectations. I really enjoyed recording the episode, actually. It was really good. So if you are one of our Patreons, that will be up soon. Yes. I'm not going to put a date in Jamie's mouth because yeah

I think within the week probably ah excellent and if you're not one of our Patreons then just go to Patreon and put in time Talos Rankium

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it's lots of Roman Republic people like Julius Caesar and Hannibal not Hannibal Skippier

but also we're about halfway through Alexander Hamilton's life as well multi-part series that one so you'd have instant

access to all of those if you join right I think that's just us plugging ourselves over yeah it's weird plugging yourself i also we're so amazing comfortable oh it's true jenny oh yeah right okay i think we can end it on that then yes great well all that needs to be said then is goodbye goodbye cut great thank you let's uh just take five to reposition the cameras everyone grab a quick cup of tea uh back in five what another? We've only been filming for 20 minutes

and our fourth tea break. I'm sorry, Ronald. What's the problem? This country, you're having tea breaks like every 20 minutes. It is ridiculous. We're repositioning the cameras. It's communism is what it is.

I'm sorry? Communism. Marxism. Socialism. Right. Okay. Yes, I have heard. You're quite passionate on set.

Anyway, five minutes, Ronald, and then we're back on. Five minutes. And another thing. I'm sorry, what? The bloody food. It's disgusting. What is this? It's a cheese sandwich, Ronald.

It's socialism. The fall of your country. What about your prime minister? Well, he didn't make the sandwich. This is what we fought against in the war. Ronald, the communists were on our side. What? This would not happen in America.

Damn it.