American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 41.2 George H W Bush

Episode Date: August 13, 2023

Last time we were quite impressed with Bush last time in early life. But what about now he is starting to run for president? Does he change? does he become Reagan's lapdog? a spineless jellyfish? hmmm. lets find out.

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, George H. W. Bush. Part 2. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob Rankin, all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 41.2, George H.W. Bush. The Bush, the big Bush, Daddy Bush. Daddy Bush, the second part. Last part, we were somewhat pleasantly surprised, weren't we, Jamie? He seemed like a really nice guy.

Yeah, I mean, there were a couple of bits that we found a bit dodgy, but generally, all in all, we didn't find it too bad. Today, though, we are very much getting into the thick of the politics of everything. We'll see how we feel by the end of the episode. Today's episode, we're going up to him

being elected as president. And then the next episode, he will be president. Well, I suppose we should start with our introduction. Off you go. Where are we starting? It's in the 80s. Yeah. No, wait.

When did he become president? He becomes president in 80... Well, we're going up to 88. 88. Okay. So, okay. So it's 1987 and somebody's on like one of those crappy 80s computers with like a black screen with green writing on

and they're coding and they type in chat gpt off you go okay oh i mean that that completely ruins what i had planned that's gone out the window. I can change it if you want. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. Okay, so you're saying it's the 80s, the late 80s, and someone has sat down in front of their green and black computer. Yeah.

And has started typing in chat GPT. Yeah, it's a command. It's a command function. Yeah. Okay. And you hear the tippity-tippippity tippity type of him typing this out and then it zooms in on the screen and you see he is writing what is george hw bush up to right now yeah and uh then there's a big sort of noise which is the i'm thinking noise from the 80s, all 80s computers. And people. Yeah.

And then I will, I'll just read to you what the 80s chat GPT came up with. Okay. Because I figured, well, if you're going to tell me to make up what a robot would say, I'm just going to ask what the robot would say. Are you ready for what George H. say i'm just going to ask what the robot would say you're ready for what george hw bush was up to yeah and i quote something went wrong please try reloading the conversation oh i've tried a couple of times now and oh no no it's come through okay so then you start seeing it all come up on screen on the eve of his election george hw bush could feel the anticipation crackling in the air like electricity the streets were alive On the eve of his election, George H.W. Bush could feel the anticipation crackling in the

air like electricity. The streets were alive with the energy of upcoming presidential contest. Campaign posters adorned every corner. His face stared confidently into the distance, promising a new era of leadership. So, there you go. Chat TV's got a bit of flair to it, hasn't it?

It's got a bit of a flair. Why do we even bother, Jeremy? Why do we even bother? So, you're zooming into the screen and all that's coming up and the guy is reading it but then what you see is two arms coming out of the side of the computer monitor grabbing the guy and start shaking him and then the computer starts screaming where is sarah connor where is sarah connor and then And then the computer explodes. And with the debris, you see the words, George H.W. Bush Part 2 start. Nice.

Yeah. Smoothly done. It was not the start I was going for. I had something all about him being in the CIA. But you know what? Never mind. All right. That's fine.

That's fine. We didn't need that. I didn't spend ages on that. It's cool crafting it it's great it's great we just went for a robot instead yeah it's fine it's all good right you ready i think so are you oh i'm ready i'm ready because uh bush has just lost his second race to become senator hasn't he he did and again, for the second time in his life, faced that bitter, bitter disappointment of thinking his political career is over. What's he going to do

now? Well, he didn't know what to do. That's the problem. But fortunately, the decision was made for him, because a phone call came through not long after he lost his Senate race. George, the White House here. How would you like to be an advisor to the president and work in the White House? Yes, please. That sounds wonderful, said Bush. And then he went to meet with Nixon immediately. So it's all OK, isn't it? He did well enough in his campaign that he's been noticed within the party. Ah, Mr. Nixon, pleasure to meet you. I've heard many good things about you. Yes. What's that tape recorder doing there? Is that going to be a problem? The fact you're recording

everything? No? Okay. Anyway, he arrives in the Oval Office. Bush used the chance to pitch a job to the President. Don't you think, Mr. President? I mean, yes, I would be useful to you in the White House, but don't you think I'd be better at the United Nations? Now, Nixon was taken aback by this. It's not something he had even considered, but actually now he thought about it. Oh yeah, I do need someone on my side, fighting my corner in the United Nations. And Bush actually seems like a good choice. Okay then. So Nixon very soon went, yeah, okay, job done. Soon enough, Bush was the ambassador for the United States at the UN, and the Bushes moved to New York.

It was a job that suited Bush. It was all about making relationships with other ambassadors. It was all about talking about situations in smoky rooms over brandy. That's a great job. Making connections, making sure that everyone knew what everyone was up to. It was diplomacy. Diplomacy, but you didn't have to leave New York. It was great.

Yeah. Yes. I say that. He didn't actually like New York. Not New York City, anyway. He found the place too cocky and sure of itself. In fact, I quote here, they are so darn sure they're right about everything. Yeah.

One I thought feeding is still there. Yeah, maybe. The politicians in New York that he was working with, he found, were just not quite the same as the ones he was used to working with. But anyway, he got on with his job. To be honest, there's not much to say about his time with the UN. The biggest thing he had to deal with was the recognition of Taiwan, which was going on, but found this job really hard because the president, Nixon and Kissinger, kept doing things like talking to China in secret and not telling anyone, including him. That's not helpful. No, when he's dealing with China and Taiwan and recognition of territories and everything,

he's trying to make deals with ambassadors and then suddenly he finds out that Kissinger's snuck into China without telling anyone to talk to them. Yeah, he just found that difficult. The biggest thing to happen to him in his life at this time wasn't anything to do with his work. It's the fact that his father, Prescott Bush, dies at this time. Prescott had been diagnosed with lung cancer and did not last long.

Bush was having a meeting with the ambassadors of Russia and Peru when he got the call. His mother needed him, so off he went. He managed to get home to his father just before he died in October of 72. And his father was buried next to George's daughter. Remember his daughter died? Yeah, so family plot. So sad time for the Bushes. But it's also a time of change.

Things were rapidly moving on for Bush because he really had decided he knew what he wanted to do by this point, and that was to be president. Everything he did was, how will this help me get to the White House? Now, the UN job was good, he did was, how will this help me get to the White House? Now, the UN job was good. He enjoyed it, but it's a stepping stone and he was looking for any other opportunities. Nixon had just been re-elected in a massive landslide and the president had heard that Bush was looking for something new, a step up. So one day Bush got a phone call inviting him

to Camp David. So off he goes to meet the president. Nixon had a proposition for him. Would you consider becoming the head of the RNC, the Republican National Committee? In other words, he would be in charge of all the party business and be the president's top advisor. This is a good high-up job. Yeah. Bush sighed inwardly.

Oh. Yeah. On his way toly. Oh. Yeah. On his way to Camp David, he thought he was going to get more than this. Pretty big job, though. It's a big job, but it's not usually one

that is seen as a stepping stone to the presidency. He had assumed he was going to be offered the number two position at the State Department, which would put him in a good place to become the Secretary of State. And then from there

you yeah that's more of the normal traditional stepping stone but that was not what he was offered however you know slightly disappointed but he didn't want to burn bridges and the job would build his connections so after talking it through with barbara who was not happy with it he somewhat reluctantly agreed to take on the job fine yeah and after all the republicans are just one in a landslide they're on the up and up this should be fairly easy it's not as if any big major scandals were going on or anything i mean apart from the financial stuff with the vice president oh and that watergate stuff that's been bubbling on in the background but no one's really paying attention to that that will die deaf soon it soon. It will be fine, he said.

And then, as we've seen, almost immediately after he took the job, the midden hit the windmill. And the vice president was found to be taking bribes. And then, after that, the Watergate kicked in properly. Yeah, remember, Watergate was bubbling along in the background for about a year, more than a year, without anyone really paying attention to it until it became this huge thing.

Well, it became a huge thing just after Bush became the head of the RNC, and he found himself holding the bomb when the music stopped. Oh. Yeah. The more evidence came out against the president, the more uneasy he felt. He's the head of the RNC. He couldn't come out and voice the concerns. His job was simple.

It was keep the party together. He can't really come out and be the dissenting voice. So Bush spent the days touring the country, delivering speeches, holding conferences, which he'd usually be doing. But increasingly, he was fending off attacks over Watergate, not just from the press, but from inside the party as well. The party was fracturing over this scandal. Those who saw Nixon as damaging thought that Nixon should step down,

and those who supported Nixon thought that this was all anti-party talk. Bush tried unsuccessfully to mend the rifts between these two sides. He was trying to glue everyone together together and it was not working. Bush was absolutely miserable. He wrote in his diary at the time that this job was, and I quote, no fun at all. Oh, harsh words. Harsh words.

Yeah. Yes. He also wrote that he was appalled by the president at this time, and certainly was not saying things like that publicly, but he was privately to his diaries. Whispering to them. I'm appalled. I'm appalled. Yes.

He kept quite a set of diaries to Bush. Really? Yeah, it's interesting stuff. We're not talking Hayes levels, but it's still very interesting. Anyway, eventually, as the evidence became indisputable that the president had indeed lied and condoned illegal actions, Bush started to sound out to other high-up people in the GOP, maybe Nixon should resign.

Yeah. And other people high up in the GOP also started to say back, yeah, maybe he should resign. And then they kind of looked at each other in a kind of, so what do we do here kind of way. Who's going to tell him? Yeah, well, it was obvious the president wasn't going to resign.

Bush toyed with the idea of resigning himself, but was worried that if everyone just started resigning, then there'd be no one running things. No. And he'd be tainted with that image as well. Yeah, exactly. So he really didn't want to do that. By this point, he was very frustrated with Nixon.

Again, later in the diaries, the man is amoral. He has a different sense to other people. He's completely gone off Nixon by this point. On the 7th of August of 1974, he wrote to the president directly telling him, you need to resign. I hope that was it it just on a bit of paper yes well the very next day nixon resigned that's good yeah which uh sounds really impressive doesn't it like bush told him to resign and the next day he resigned uh it was not bush it was

at this time nixon was getting many calls from many places that he needed to resign, but Bush was the one telling him he needed to resign. But he was fairly late on that call for the resignation, which is understandable, I suppose, if he's the head of the RNC. So anyway, Nixon resigns, all of the Watergate stuff goes on, which we're not going to go into,

but Ford becomes president. And for a while it was suggested maybe Bush be his vice president. Ooh. Yes, please. Yes, please. Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

I'll take that, said Bush. But it was just rumours. This one went nowhere, much to Bush's disappointment. After all, he had made it very clear to Ford that he wanted the job. He wasn't one of these people who was like, oh, well, I suppose I would do my duty, of course. No, he was there going yeah yeah no i'll do it give me give me ford ford ford vice vice president hello we shut the door

uh but no not to be instead ford offered him an ambassadorship interesting yes how about you go off to china and be the ambassador the secret I can know the secret stuff. Yeah, well, I mean, China's just started opening up to America after the Nixon era. So actually, this was a pretty good posting. You know what? Why not, thought Bush? He was fed up of being in Washington by this point. He was fed up with all the mess of the Republican Party.

And he'd been trying to sort it all out for a couple of years, and it was just awful. So actually, yeah, let's do it. He'd enjoyed his work at the un he felt he was good at it it would be a bit like that getting away from the dumpster fire that was the republican party at the time will do me some good so in short order he's off to china uh to put it bluntly he did not like it oh no he arrived and soon found out the politics in china was glacially slow if a meeting was likely to happen that meant it might happen within the next few years oh oh yeah he just it just nothing was happening bush had liked the whirlwind nature of diplomacy in the

un it was like meeting people from all over the world. This was a hub of diplomacy. Chatting, doing deals in China, however. To begin with, he wasn't even meant to be going to the diplomatic parties. The US ambassador didn't do that. In his first week, his phone didn't ring once. You'd start to wonder whether you were just in a hotel room somewhere, wouldn't you? Am I in China? Do I have a job? Does anyone

know I'm the ambassador? What am I? Massive existential crisis for Bush at this point. He was getting some exercise though. He got himself a bicycle and he was riding around the place on his bicycle, which is nice. He was seeing the sights.

He wasn't having a great time. Things did get a little bit better over time. But generally, he was a frustrated man. And also slightly put out when Barbara, one day, was on her own in their accommodation, just was talking to herself about how she needed some glue because they'd ran out. Can you guess what happened the next day? Some glue! about how she needed some glue because they'd ran out. Oh. Can you guess what happened the next day? Some glue.

Oh, no, it was worse than that. It was just in their apartment. There was just some glue. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. That's a dodgy. There was no attempt to hide.

In fact, that was a very obvious, we are listening, we are watching. We don't trust you. Can you imagine that thing we did last night, Barbara? They heard it all. They know about the masks. They know about

that time I cheated at Scrabble. All sorts. But fortunately for Bush, the politics back home in Washington were shifting, and it meant that soon he would be on his way back home and back in the thick of things, because Ford, now president, was attempting to get away from the scandals of Nixon

and was shaking up personnel. And that meant job openings, lots of job openings. Vice president! Vice president! No. No. No. Bush hoped there'd be something for him. He had no idea what it would look like.

The vice president thinks it's just not going to happen. Just, he needs to accept that. But he was right. A job offer did come. And when it did, he was absolutely amazed. Henry Kissinger himself contacted him and told him that the president soon wanted to announce that Bush was going to take over the running of the CIA. Ooh, that's a cool job.

Yeah, well, Bush was shocked and initially dismayed. In the wake of the Watergate scandal, all of the awful things the CIA had been getting up to had started to come out. No one was going to look good in the CIA for a while, and that much was obvious. Barbara instantly warned him against it. This would be like when he became the head of the RNC. He would be expected to just carry the bleep for the party, essentially. And Bush was unsure. On one hand, it meant going back home. That was good. Getting into the thick of stuff. That is good. Plus it's the CIA. It just sounds cool. On the other hand, it was non-political and therefore it is considered a dead end for climbing the political ladder. You go to the CIA, that's it. That's, that's what you

do. You're a CIA man. You're not political, political career, dead in the water. CIA, we're used to making things dead in the water. Despite this, Bush decided to go for it. The president had asked him to step up. So he would. He contacted his family and stated that he was going to give up his dream of being president. He was going to serve by leading the CIA. And he pointed out that this was going to be tough on lots of them because no one liked the CIA. And now your dad's going to be the head of it. So sorry, children, you're going to be the butt of several jokes being made about me. His son, George Dubya, wrote back saying, and I quote,

I look forward to holding my head high and decrying proudly that yes, George Bush, super spook, is my dad. Which is nice. That is nice that is quite nice yeah that's nice little cry of support or was it was it really early bushism did he mean super sleuth no no spook is what they were known as back then yeah oh don't worry we're getting to the bushisms in bush's episode there There are plenty. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it was just then, in November of 75, that the church committee that had been set up looking into the CIA dropped several bombshells. It turns out that CIA had attempted to assassinate Castro.

Ooh. And also the prime minister of the Congo. Ooh. Yeah. And then on December the 4th, they released the fact that the CIA had played a large role in the coup in Chile of 73. Oh.

And then on Monday the 15th, they released that the CIA had been involved in the Angolian Civil War. Oh. And then later that day, on the same day, Monday the 15th, Bush had his confirmation hearings to become the head of the CIA. So he's literally becoming the head,

just as all this stuff is coming out of how awful the CIA is. Brilliant. Yeah. The CIA is definitely now an organisation that, by orders of the government, has been systematically killing people and overthrowing legitimate governments oh that's a bit uh a bit pushy yeah it's not a good look no it's really really not i don't feel like we have done enough in this podcast to really go into how awful the cia have been throughout

history and their actions are one of the main reasons why the United States has a certain reputation around the world. But this is a lot of where all of that starts to stem from. It's when it starts coming out here. And hey, Bush is going to be in charge of it. As long as he gets through his confirmation hearing, of course. Because he can't just walk through the door. So he was grilled over whether he would be partisan to the Republicans. I can either confirm or deny.

Well, he was asked hypothetically, for example, if the president wanted dirt during the next election on, say, this rising star, Reagan, in the Republican Party. He's an actor. He went to Hollywood. Who knows what kind of dirt you might be able to find on him, they said. Reagan in the Republican Party. He's an actor. He went to Hollywood. Who knows what kind of dirt you might be able to find on him, they said, which seems like a very leading question. All the stuff he did, all the stuff Reagan did. Anyway, the president is asking you to find this utter filth.

Would you do it? Would you? Would you, Bush? Are you going to find dirt? And Bush had a really good answer to this. Do you want to hear it? Would you? Would you Bush? Are you going to find dirt? And Bush had a really good answer to this Do you want to hear it? No I quote, I would simply say

No And that was good enough That was good enough Tough interview But he passed, flying colours He is now the director of the CIA. The Bushes move back to Washington, and men from the CIA come and make their house extra secure.

So I can only assume they install a secret bunker and put in a teleport machine or something, whatever the CIA do. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And now we have loads of cool stories about him being the head of the CIA we don't do we

no it's all classified it's all classified yeah of course because it's what stood out to me when I first spotted it it was like oh he was the head of the CIA

oh that'll be interesting yeah be an interesting part of the episode I thought yeah yeah no no

no one's got a clue it's secretive by its nature secretive in fact it was so secretive barbara uh was very frustrated at this time because bush took his job very seriously as you would hope and simply stopped talking to her about work because it was classified she had always been part of his work and she suddenly felt cut off. She quickly fell into a deep depression. She later said how she tried to hide it from everyone, but this was the worst she had ever felt apart from when their daughter died. George soon noticed and suggested she get some help, but she didn't want that. And home life was just miserable. It was just really hard times for the Bushes.

But that's at home. Because at work, Bush was loving every minute of it. You get the feeling he left home, which was just this thundercloud of a place. And he'd solemnly get into his car as he's picked up in the morning. And then he'd skip out of it at the other end. He'd jog through the corridors of the CIA, high-fiving everyone he worked past. Sunshine, lollipops and rainbow. Yeah, exactly. He's having a great time.

I mean, he'd accepted the job reluctantly. He knew it was going to be hard work and the end of his political dreams. But that kind of meant the pressure was off. He only had to think about the job he was doing now rather than seeing it as a stepping stone to the future. And it was all spy stuff, which I know no one actually doing it says it but that's pretty cool it is like when you're doing it you've got to take it seriously but there must be part of his

head where it's like yeah head of the cia that's cool it's like it's like you've got the coolest job in the world but you can't tell anyone about it. Yeah, which in itself is cool. Yes. And just ignore all the murder that you're sanctioning. Yeah, it's fine. No, no, it's spies. Yeah. In charge of James Bond, damn it. Yes. Yes.

Or the American equivalent. What's the American equivalent? Felix. Felix Leiter. Felix Leiter. Which is a James Bond reference for any James Bond fans out there. Sorry, film on. Cool. Yeah, I forgot one. Cool.

Yeah, anyway. So he's having a good time. Another thing he liked is you get respect when you're the head of the CIA. Yeah, in ways that you don't generally get anywhere else. He was suddenly well-respected.

I'm guessing people are reluctant to be rude to a man that they suspect could in theory get hold of an assassin within i don't know 30 minutes uh do you think that's how we introduce people so hello this is uh mr george george bush hello hello hello i could have you killed yes you just whisper in their ear and stand back and smile so where are you from like all the time is like having a meal at night and the waiter comes up. This salmon's a bit, not quite to my taste.

I could have you killed. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if he wasn't saying it out loud, he was saying it with his eyes. Yeah. Yeah. He's got the words, I could have you killed tattooed on his eyelids and he'd just slowly blink at people. So, yeah, there you go.

That's what he's doing. We don't know the details, but we do know that one thing he focused on was reforming the image of the CIA. That's basically the only way it was up at this point. All the dirt had come out, or at least we say all the dirt. All the dirt that we know about came out at this point. And his first job was to try and stop all the leaks coming from the CIA. The place had kind of fallen apart under the church investigation,

and it was a sieve of department. So much so that foreign agents and organisations had started to not give them information because they feared it would end up in the papers. Yeah. You don't want that reputation as an intelligence agency. No. One of the major things that he did, however, when he was the director, is actually quite a big criticism of him, because he bowed to pressure from the right of the GOP over a certain issue. Because 15 years previous to this, the CIA had produced a report about Russia. And the report essentially said that after we have done some extensive research using all of our secret intelligence and all the stuff we've got,

we've looked into it and as far as we can tell, the Russians are not planning to attack us unless we attack them first. Everything points to this fact. That's going to take some pressure off a bit. Yeah, yeah, it does, doesn't it? Over the last 15 years, that assessment had not changed. However, hawks in the government, especially in the GOP, thought that this was wrong. They felt it in their guts.

No, a bunch of Russians, surely they're up to something. I mean, I know what the CIA have said with all of their, like, intelligence, but I know what I feel after reading the papers in the morning. So it must be wrong. Yeah. Yeah. How about does it happen now? Ford and Bush were badgered about

the report, until eventually Bush said, fine, okay, we will put a separate report that can be put together. We won't redo the report. As the CIA, we stand by this report. However, we can do a second report, and we'll call it Team B's report. So a group of handpicked experts were selected. You can probably guess who these people were. Jimmy McSnoop. Well, these were people who all went into the project

knowing exactly what they wanted to find. Pretty much all of them had a track record of being, shall we say, a little bit hawkish. Now, to begin with, Team B's report argued that the initial report was inaccurate because they had mirror-imaged. Sounds technical, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. They mirror-imaged that first report, so that initial one's wrong, they said.

So what does it mean that they mirror-imaged? Well, they mirror-imaged the Russians, apparently. In other words, the CIA had initially assumed that the Russians would act roughly in the same ways that America would. Right. They looked at all the details, got all the facts, and then went, well, what would we do if we were in this situation? Well, we wouldn't attack first because that would be silly. So the Russians won't attack first.

Yeah? Mirror image? Yeah. But what the CIA had forgotten, said Team B, is that the Russiansussians are russian you can't trust them we're sensible americans of course we wouldn't attack first but have you considered for a moment that maybe the russians are all just crazy russians well they probably would attack first if they were in that situation because well, well, they're Russian, aren't they? Can't trust them. So that's how the report starts.

Excellent. Yes. That's a good introduction. The report then made predictions on the growth of power of Russia and their weapon development. The conclusion was the Soviets were plotting world domination and would soon be so powerful that the US would not be able to stop them unless we act quick. It was almost the polar opposite of the report that the US would not be able to stop them unless we act quick. It was almost the

polar opposite of the report that the CIA had initially done, and the right of the GOP absolutely loved it. Brilliant! It was, as proven later, almost entirely wrong. Historians analysing it today use words like fanciful and wildly off the mark but newspapers at the time ran headlines such as new cia estimate finds soviet seek superiority in arms so it did what they wanted it to do fear fear yeah soon after this carter won the next election hey bush called him up to congratulate him and offer his resignation as was per normal. It's just one of those things where you go, oh, obviously I will step aside so you can put your own man in, which Bush wasn't happy about doing.

This is his favourite job he's had in ages. But then it was unusual for incoming presidents to immediately replace the director. Seems a bit pushy. I mean, they quite often replace them over time, but not like immediately. Yeah, at least give it a week. So Bush was hopeful this wouldn't happen, but no. Carter did not trust the CIA one bit, especially not after all of that Team B stuff,

where it's like it had clearly been a partisan report that had been published under the name of the CIA. So no, Carter was like, get out. I want my own man. So Bush had to go. So he moves back to Houston. And yet again, he finds himself unsure what to do. That's it.

That was the dead end. That's my political career over. So what do I do? Write a book. It's that kind of thing. He's like semi-retired. He half-heartedly got a job in a bank chairing the executive committee, where he had to work one day a week, like you do. That job took him to London occasionally.

He did speeches for the Republican Party, stuff like that, but he wasn't into anything serious. And he soon realised that, no, I'm far too young to retire. This can't be me for the rest of my life. He needed something and he knew what he wanted to do. Damn it, he wants to be president. He'd convinced himself the CIA was a dead end, but now he's done that and he's come out, he started thinking, well, is that a dead end? What's stopping me from just running to be president?

And in fact, Carter's really struggling at the moment. He seems weak. There's a very good chance that the Republican could beat him in the next election. Now, he wasn't hugely known to the public, but he wasn't invisible. I mean, he had been the head of the RNC, after all. The main problem, however, if he did throw his hat into the ring, he'd be throwing it into the same ring as the representative of the far right of the party, Ronald Reagan.

Yeah. And Reagan had momentum. representative of the far right of the party, Ronald Reagan. And Reagan had momentum. Everyone kind of assumed that it was going to be Reagan next. Would Bush be able to get the nomination over him? It seemed unlikely, but he was determined to give it a try. So he put himself forward. He was a less extreme alternative for Republican voters. After all, Reagan is 70 almost.

And let's face it, he is extreme. He's representing the extreme of the party. Yes, his faction is strong and vocal, but surely the members of the Republican Party would prefer a more down-to-earth choice that represents most of their interests instead of just the loud vocal group. Well, we all thought the same in 2016, didn't we? Well, this is what Bush is thinking at the time as well.

Well, it's what he's hoping anyway. Anyway, things start to heat up. The Republican contenders who had thrown their hats in that ring start swinging at each other. Bush saw his line of attack as clear. Reagan was too old and too extreme. Those were the two things he was going to hammer home. Reagan attacked Bush for being the old GOP, a relic of the past. The Republican Party was

changing, and Reagan was the future, not Bush. However, Reagan did not, as we saw in his episode, campaign hard to begin with. He was such a forerunner that he figured that if he got down in the muck with the other contenders, he would just add weight to their challenge. So he didn't get on stage with the rest of them. He didn't join in debates with any of them. He was above the fray. Bush, however, very much did get down in the muck. He campaigned and he campaigned hard.

And he was doing all right. He was polling higher than all of the candidates, apart from Reagan, obviously. It helped at this time that there were a lot of things going on in the world. The Russians had invaded Afghanistan and the hostages had been captured in Iran. These were things that Bush could talk about confidently.

It was like all of his past work. UN, CIA, this is stuff he knows about. And what does Reagan know? He knows how to work for an electric form and how to be an actor. So who do you really want in charge? So things weren't going too

bad. He had a clear game plan as well. What he was going to do is he was going to copy exactly what Carter had done four years previously. It was a while ago since we recorded that episode, so I'll forgive you if you've forgotten. Remember, Carter was very much an outsider. Yeah.

But what he did is he campaigned really well by realising that the way the new primaries were set up meant that if you just campaigned hard in Iowa, the first state to call, then you got momentum from it. So that is exactly what Bush decided to do. Him and his campaign went to Iowa, and they campaigned hard. And this worked perfectly.

After pouring everything into the state, Bush beat Reagan in a shock victory 32% to 30%. This was a huge shock that very few people saw coming. Overnight, Bush turned from being one of the leading losers to a serious challenger to Reagan. Huge celebrations were held in the Bush camp, but Bush soon realised that he had scraped a win in a state where Reagan had hardly campaigned. Could he really keep this up? Well, let's see, he thinks. So, into the next race. Reagan changed strategy, as we saw in

his episode. And this is where we get the story of the debate that I covered in Reagan's episode. Yeah. This is the one where the debate between Reagan and Bush was planned, but then Reagan's team then invited everyone else on stage and Bush just froze, not sure what to do. The moderator, Mr. Breen, who was conducting the debate, attempted to tell Reagan that he wasn't allowed to speak, even if it was to convince people that everyone should be able to debate, because that went against the rules of the debate, and Reagan cut across with his, I'm paying for this microphone, Mr. Green, pointing

out the fact that Reagan had paid for the debate. So, covered this in Reagan's episode, but just to set the scene a little bit better here so you can imagine it more, there were three tables on stage. The moderator was in the middle, Mr Breen. Reagan was sat on table on one side and Bush on the other side. And the other four candidates

were just awkwardly stood behind them because there were no chairs for them. And they were just stood there like naughty schoolchildren. It's quite an amusing photo. Good visual. Yeah, so they shuffle on stage and there's nowhere for them. And they were just stood there like naughty school children. It's quite an amusing photo. Good visual. Yeah. So they shuffle on stage and there's nowhere for them to go and

Reagan's saying, damn it, they should be able to debate. And all of the drama's going on and Bush is just there, frozen, like a deer in headlights, not doing anything. Eventually the candidates were asked to leave. No, this is a one-on-one debate and it always has been. And Bush just comes across as being indecisive,

not being able to get control of a situation that's got away from him. Compared to him, Reagan had come across as a man trying to take charge of an awkward situation. And also, he kept saying things like, for the good of party unity, I want to debate everyone, which sounded quite good. Bush didn't even start to argue against it. Bush later admitted it wasn't

his finest hour. Bush then goes on to lose decisively in New Hampshire, and from then on, the campaign lost the excitement that it had after Iowa. The Bush campaign worked hard, but Reagan was a force to be reckoned with, and they just couldn't beat it. It managed to land a few blows. There had been talk about Reagan's economic plan being overly simplistic and too ideological. Just general talk from a lot of people. It was bound to fail. Very few people thought that Reagan's economic plan was a good idea. Also, roughly the same time, because Carter's the president at this point, critics of Carter had started to talk about how Carter's economic solutions were like a witch

doctor putting together something to heal a patient. Now, upon hearing this, one staffer on the Bush team decided to use that kind of imagery to attack Reagan's economic plan, and he came up with the term voodoo economics. And it really stuck to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if you've come across that term, even if you didn't realise that it was anything to do with Reagan. The idea that Reagan's economics were voodoo economics and therefore not good, put aside the racist connotations of that, it was a term that really stuck in the public at the time. And Reagan was not happy about it at all. Many were not convinced by his ideas on the economy, as I say,

and this term soon just was bandied about all over the place. However, it's not enough. Reagan's going to win the primaries, it's clear by this point. Bush simply had to decide whether to quit or to fight to the death. Now, quitting sounds bad, doesn't it? You can say face, though, I guess. Yeah, he didn't like quitting. He was found on one plane journey sitting on his own, just writing

the words, I will not quit, over and over again in a pad. He obviously did not like the sound of quitting. Going down in a flame of glory certainly sounded better, but there's a hitch here. If he quit early enough, there was a chance he'd be chosen

as the vice president nominee. And Bush, being realistic, far preferred the chance of being vice president to the idea of simply losing, becoming the president. So, Bush dropped out the race. He was very unhappy about doing it, but he saw he had no choice.

So he returned home, he crossed his fingers and prayed that his political career wasn't over. If Reagan didn't choose him, then that was it. There was nowhere else to go. The trouble was, Reagan did not want Bush to be his vice president. Bush's attacks on his age and his economic plan had really irked Reagan. His advisors pointed out that Bush actually is pretty perfect for vice president. He's moderate enough to pull in the moderates, but he's not liberal, so he won't scare Reagan's base. There's a lot to be said for him, but Reagan was having none of it.

He had decided, something we didn't really go into in Reagan's episode for time reasons, but Reagan had decided he wanted ex-president Ford to be his vice president. Oh, that'd be awkward. Yeah, this is something that Nancy Reagan thought at the time. She wrote later, it's like, I thought that would be awful, but no one else seemed to agree with me. But how on earth was that going to work?

Yeah, the convention arrived, and as Reagan was obviously going to win, all the talk was about the potential vice president rather than anything else. Bush and his family were there. Bush was gritting his teeth and making sure everyone knew he was 100% behind Reagan for the good of the country. Meanwhile, the rumours about Ford coming in as vice president swirled around even more. However, Ford was interviewed by Walter Cronkite about the possibility of all this happening, and Ford pointed out that if it were to happen, then he would have to have genuine power. Not like a normal vice president who's just shoved off into a corner.

No, if he was going to be vice president, he would have some power. Now, Bush, watching from his hotel room, gave or pulled hope at this point. Ford was talking like a man who knew he was going to be vice president and was trying to get as much power as possible. It's a done deal.

Bush's career is over. The dream's over. If you fail to become the president in this run, he's not going to be able to do it again. However, Cronkite then asked how Reagan would feel about taking on a vice president who had said, and I'll quote Cronkite here, it's got to be something like a co-presidency.

That's not the words Ford used, but that's the words that Cronkite used to paraphrase him. And guess who else was watching this? Reagan just flicking through, yeah. Yeah, Reagan was watching from his hotel room and he was not happy one bit. It was hoped having Ford around would shut down fears that Reagan was inexperienced, didn't know what he was not happy one bit it was hoped having ford around would shut down fears that reagan was inexperienced didn't know what he was doing so you could say well my vice president used to be the president i'd be fine if i need any advice i can get some sounded good to reagan for a while but oh he was not going to take it if people thought that Ford was really in charge. Oh, no, no, no, no. So he soured on the

idea immediately. Okay, then, said his advisors. Well, if not Ford, then who? Because we all came to this convention pretty much thinking Ford was in the bag. We need to make a decision by tonight. Some of his advisors pointed out, uh, Bush, we recommended him a while ago. Reagan's still far from keen. In fact, I quote him, I can't take him, that charge of voodoo economy. Really, really stuck with him. Well, said one adviser,

what if he guaranteed to back your policies 100% while in office? Promise that he would never go against anything you say. Hmm, said Reagan. That's not a direct quote, That's paraphrasing. A couple of hours later, Bush in his hotel room got a phone call. I mean, he was probably hitting the whiskey by this point. It was like gone midnight. Everyone knew that it was over. But no, a phone call comes through and he was shocked when it was Ronald Reagan and he was asked to be the vice president nominee however Bush had to be honest here if you're going to disagree with me about anything Reagan said then you can't be my vice president you need to guarantee to me right now

you will be 100 behind me for the entire presidency Bush thought about it for all of three seconds and went yes yes, yes, sir. And just like that, he is now the vice president nominee. The campaign starts and Bush, true to his word, toed the line. Gone was the Bush from the primaries. He was now Reagan's man through and through. When questioned about his very sudden change of heart, he downplayed the differences or more likely just outright denied them. No, of course I didn't think that his economic plan was awful. No. As covered in Reagan's episode, Reagan, with the help of timings over certain hostage crises and stuff, went on to

win in a landslide. And in November of 1980, Bush was elected to be the Vice President. He wrote to Reagan to accept an invitation to discuss the details of their victory, and I'll quote him here, I will never do anything to embarrass you politically. I have strong views on issues and people, but once you decide a matter, that's it for me. You'll see no leaks, at least none from me. Call me if I can lighten the burden, if you need someone to meet people on your behalf, or to turn over eager office seekers or simply just someone to bounce ideas off please holler that's that sounds a bit desperate it does a little bit doesn't it please use me please please please i don't want to be a rubbish vice president i want

to do something uh well it seemed to do the trick bush was shortly informed that there would be a scheduled lunch with the president once a week with no agenda. It was just a weekly catch-up. Also, he was going to be given the Vice President's office in the West Wing, which sounds much better than perhaps it initially does, because that Vice President's office had only just been

created for Carter's Vice President. There was no Vice President's office in the West Wing before. The Vice President usually was in the west wing before the vice president usually was in the old executive building across the road as it turned out bush spent most of his time in the old executive building because he preferred it over there but he still had his office in the west wing that he could go to and he could work from um so yeah that sounded quite good seems like he's gonna have a little bit of power but he found it hard to settle in to begin with.

Unlike all his previous jobs, he now found himself in a job where, to put it bluntly, all he had to do was wait around in case Reagan died. I mean, yes, he could do all this stuff, but let's face it, that's the job of a vice president. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Bush decided early on if he was going to be an effective vice president, he was going to follow a few rules.

He was going to do a couple of things that he would not deviate from. So number one, he had to be 100% devoted to the president and the president's image and messaging. If Reagan was happy, he was doing a good job. Yeah. Number two, he was not going to try and use his vice presidency as a way to climb the political ladder don't start wheedling people in the background your job is to support the president number three don't leak any information ever no no and that was it those were his his golden rules

and things start well enough uh reagan was not particularly warm to bush but then he was notoriously distant to even his closest advisors, if you remember from his episode. So I mean, you can only imagine how he was with someone who had been politically attacking him for over a year recently. But that said, Bush was able to talk to Reagan regularly, and the two of them worked well enough together professionally. However, there was one major sticking point, and that was Nancy. Nancy Reagan was less able to put the past behind her. In particular, she really didn't like Barbara. Two of them did not get on at all.

For a messenger, she literally sent the Bushes a message telling them to keep a low profile during the presidency. And this was right at the start, before anything had happened. So, yeah, Barbara really took offence to this. It's like, what have we done to deserve this message? We've not been keeping a high profile. There's lots of speculation why Barbara and Nancy didn't get on. We don't really know.

One theory is that Nancy saw Barbara as a silver spoon-holding, lazy, never-had-to-work-a-day-in-her-life aristocrat, and that Barbara saw Nancy as a rude, crude actress who was flying above her station. It's unlikely that they thought these things, but it is very easy to imagine that they thought that the other one thought these things about themselves, and there was definitely tension there.

Mirroring. Yes. Meanwhile, Bush was given, for the vice president, to be fair, a fair amount of responsibility, mainly around environmental regulation. Nothing too hugely exciting, but he's got some work to do, which is more than a lot of vice presidents get. However, things very quickly became very real.

After a visit to Texas to talk at the Texas and Southwest Cattle Raisers Association luncheon, exciting stuff, job of vice president, he was on a plane to Austin. And on the way to Austin, the radio went in the cockpit and someone asked the pilot if they were still going to Austin or whether they were going to head back to Washington. Confused, the pilot said, no, we're going to Austin as planned. Moments later, news hit the plane. Reagan had been shot at. He was safe, but some Secret Service personnel had been hit. Soon after this, a call from the Secretary of State came through to Bush,

but the line was so bad that all Bush could hear was, and I quote, which wasn't very helpful. No. No. But then a written message via a telex came through and said the following from the Secretary of State, and I'll quote now, Mr. Vice President, in the incident you will have heard about by now, the president was struck in the back and is in serious condition. Medical authorities are deciding whether or not to operate.

Recommend you return to D.C. at the earliest possible moment. This was the first Bush heard that Reagan had been shot. So the plane landed in Austin to refuel, not just because they were ignoring it, and then set off immediately. Well, almost immediately. Bush was able to snatch a little bit of the news on a TV screen and see that things were quite serious. On the plane back to Washington, he made several phone calls

on the two-and-a-half-hour flight, attempting to keep on top of things. But this is the 70s. It's very hard to do that from the plane. Yeah. Yeah. When he arrived in Washington, he was told that they would take a helicopter and land on the south lawn this was the quickest and safest way to get the vice

president back to the white house show the world that someone's still in charge yeah yeah bush heard this and paused oh is that a good idea because uh what you think would be good to show the world i argue would be bad optics because only the president used the South Lawn. If I land there, we might as well tell the world that Reagan's dead. At this point, they had no idea. Reagan was in surgery. So, yeah. So he argued with the Secret Service for a while, but he won out.

He would drive back. It would add 15 minutes to the journey. That was about it. They could cope with that 15 minutes. Bush drove back to the White House, was about it. They could cope with that 15 minutes. Bush drove back to the White House and he found a somewhat chaotic environment. Do you think on the way there in the car, he was sort of like redesigning it?

For my Oval Office, I think I would like... I mean, different kind of drapes. Obviously, nowhere. Nowhere in his diaries. No one says anything about him. There's no indication that bush is thinking about anything other than reagan's safety but obviously he must have been he must have been thinking oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god i might be president by the end of the day you just i mean whether

he's thinking that's great or that's terrifying or that's tragic or the circumstances but you're gonna be thinking it aren't yeah but nowhere does, nowhere I saw did he talk about that. But yeah, I'm guessing some, just in a quiet little corner of his brain. Yeah. That he doesn't explore that often. He's probably redesigning the curtains. Yeah. Probably.

I think so. Yeah. Anyway, the White House is chaotic when he gets there. One spokesperson had attempted to calm the press but had not done a great job i imagine that was fun come out and just screamed through his hands in the air and just ran up and down the press room. Throwing paper. Run away!

No, it was not quite that bad. He had been asked a question about who would decide whether Reagan had to be replaced with Bush, and he panicked and went, I don't know, I don't know the details, which is not a great response no no but it's not unfair to actually be honest at this moment in time yeah we're not thinking about that it's not unfair um but it's not the response that was wanted at that time you want someone to calmly go this is what's going to happen so the secretary of, by the way, it's a man called Haig at this point,

he saw this and went, oh, God, OK, that wasn't great. I'll go down and come, the press, he said confidently, and then walked into the press room and started screaming, oh, my God, oh, my God. No, he attempted to come situation because he assured everyone that there was a written down line of succession. OK, we've got this sorted. We wrote this down before. And that goes the president, the vice president and then the secretary of state.

OK, so the vice president is on his way here. But until he gets here, I'm in charge and it's fine. Vice president will be here momentarily. It's all okay. There's a slight problem with that. The line of succession is not the president, the vice president, and then the secretary of state. The line of succession is very clearly the president,

the vice president, and then the leader of the house, then the leader of the Senate, and then the secretary of state. So yeah. Whoops. Yeah, it's raised eyebrows, shall we say. It's like, is he attempting a coup here? What's going on?

Because that's not how it should be. Yeah, he just came across as trying to usurp power in a time of crisis. Worst case scenario. More likely, he didn't really understand what he was talking about, which equally is not great. One way or another, he hadn't really calmed the situation. Fortunately for everyone, Bush then arrived. He briefly spoke to the press just to reassure them.

News had just been received. Reagan's out of surgery. Things were looking good. He then headed downstairs to the Situation Room where the staff called him Mr Vice President. Nice. Apparently this was a big deal because everyone called him George up to that point.

Hi, George. Just got images of him walking through the West Wing every morning and everyone being very formal and busy and looking up and just going, George, can i have a coffee yeah can you fetch me two americanos and a latte please yeah um aren't you an intern but yeah no he was mr vice president now so it's fine uh he reassured everyone uh reagan was going to fine. I'm not taking over here. No one mention me becoming president. I'm just keeping things ticking until Reagan's back. They get more news. It's looking

even better for Reagan. He's no longer critical. They talk for a couple of hours, planning strategy of what to do for the next few days. And then Bush heads back on upstairs and addresses the nation, appearing calm and in control. He told the country that he was deeply heartened by the reports of Reagan, and he reassured everyone that the government was running fully effectively. Ten days later, Reagan returned to the White House, and he met Bush. Reagan had caught up on how his vice president had acted, and very much approved. Bush had stayed calm, he'd kept the ship steady, and he had not used the situation to grandstand whatsoever.

The press praised Bush for his actions, and general feeling around Washington was that Bush had come out of this whole thing looking pretty good. I mean, it had been a traumatic situation, but the assassination attempt had done Bush's image no harm at all. Excellent. So, that's pretty good. But the excitement's over. Reagan's survived. It's back to harm at all. Excellent. That's pretty good. But the excitement's over.

Reagan's survived. It's back to being just normal vice president. So he carries on his work. His first major job was to go around Europe and reassure the heads of state in Europe that Reagan wasn't a madman, which was quite an important job to do. If you remember, this was the stage early on

in Reagan's first term when he was saying things like nuke them all uh oh yeah yeah not quite that bad but that is what many people were fearing was the subtext of what he was saying metaphorical yes king he was uh very much escalating the arms race talk about that and uh various heads of state in europe were very unnerved by this so So George was sent over. VP George, off to Europe. We're sure, everyone. Reagan's not insane. So off he went.

Italy, West Germany, France, just saying things to various leaders like, yes, I know Reagan's saying a lot of scary things about nukes right now, but that's just to scare the Russians. He doesn't mean it. Honest. Look how sane I seem, and I'm vouching for him. It's gonna be okay. People were sceptical, but they were willing to listen, and overall his visit did a lot of good for the US, and how it was seen by Europe. In particular, in Britain, meeting Margaret Thatcher went down

very well. Thatcher was very impressed, and even sent words to Reagan to compliment Bush on what a great job Bush had done talking Reagan up. And once he was home, Bush was given a warm reception by everyone. He had worked his diplomatic magic. Bush's stock went up once more. He's doing all right. But despite the fact he said he was never going to use his position to climb the political ladder, he'd not lost sight of the end goal. His end goal was always, after two Reagan terms, he was going to run for president. That would be his chance. So to do that, he was going

to have to court the whole of the Republican Party, especially the faction that liked him the least, the ever more powerful far-right faction, that was behind Reagan. And he wasn't optimistic about winning them over. In fact, I quote him here, the nuts will never be for me, we might as well recognise it. But the idea was that he had to show that he tried. So he spent the next couple of years trying to ingratiate himself with all factions of the party while at the same time towing the president's line, a job he well enough that he was told that reagan wanted him to run with him again in the 84 election which was great news followed by some bad news because a recent poll had showed that 64 percent of republicans who considered themselves conservative wanted bush replaced someone more right-wing he was seen as far too moderate for the growing base of the party.

But he doesn't do anything. Well, I mean, it didn't matter too much. If Reagan was happy with Bush, then Bush was happy. And Reagan had said he was happy with Bush. So they ran together. And the election comes along. And for the first time in US history, Jamie,

are you ready to mark this? Get this. There was a woman running. What? I know. The Democrats had selected Walter Mondale as their nominee, who in turn chose Geraldine Ferrero

as his vice president nominee. So we've got a woman on the ticket for the first time. There we go. That's good. Progress? That'd be a one president in no time. Surely. Yeah. Anyway, this coupled with the fact that Bush was determined to appear 100% a Reaganite

meant that Bush, shall we say, did not come out too well from this election. To begin with, he stated that he was for Reagan, and I quote, blindly. This didn't sound great. He wanted to sound like he was fully in support of the president, but it made it just sound like he was just a blind lackey with no brain of his own.

But where he comes across even less well is when he has to campaign against the Democrat vice president nominee, who is obviously Geraldine Ferrero. He privately complained that campaigning against a woman was impossible, because, and I'll quote him here, If you come back tough, you get it for beating up on a woman.

And if you don't come back tough, why? Then you come back as a wimp. No win. Barbara then put her foot in it, when she said that Ferrero was something that rhymed with rich. It doesn't? No, no. That Ferrero was something, a word, that rhymes with rich.

Oh! I'm with you. That's all far too long to work out. Yeah. I've not got it in front of me, so I'll have to do it off the top of my head, but it was something along the lines of uh she went to say that rich woman because ferrero was attacking the bushes for just being rich and elite so she went to say about how rich

ferrero was and was going to say something along the lines of that rich woman but stopped after that rich and then said well she's something that rhymes with rich. Yeah, it was just a nasty, sexist attack. And it just wasn't good. I mean, it's no less sexist just because it came from Barbara. It was just not a good attack. Barbara apparently later in life deeply regretted this and was mocked by her family for it for quite some time as being quite out of character, apparently.

But it's what she did then, and it did not go down well at all. Ferrero then accused Bush of being condescending to her during a debate, which was something that Bush failed to counter. I'm not being condescending, but you wouldn't understand that as your own element. There, there, dear. Patting the head. Would you like a biscuit? It's not great. And then after the debate someone told him that he had kicked ass in the debate and he replied well

i tried to kick a little ass oh yes it's these little belunders that just add up and he just doesn't come across very well in this uh election. But it makes no difference to the big picture. No one cares what the vice president nominees are saying to each other. The economy was doing well. Reagan was popular. Republicans win an absolute landslide, as we saw. Yeah. A couple of weeks after the election, Bush went to Reagan and told him that he planned to run for president next time.

Just get in there straight away. I'm going to be running for president in four years' time. However, he reassured Reagan, I won't be any different as vice president, as I have been. I am still going to be behind you 100%. I will not attack you whatsoever. I'm a Reagan man through and through.

Reagan was not best pleased, but he said he supported the move. Remember, Reagan throughout is is he gets on with bush professionally well enough but he doesn't particularly like the guy uh and yeah so he just kind of goes okay then and looks slightly annoyed and that's about it still bush has a campaign to start to organize so he approaches a man called Atwater to lead his campaign. Atwater was a professional campaign manager, and he saw Bush as a good candidate. However, the Bush family weren't sure about him.

They weren't sure how trustworthy he would be, because Atwater's business partners were already working for a potential rival of Bush. So, are you really going to be in the race properly so at water they're met with the bush boys with jeb and george dobby jeb said to at water if someone throws a grenade at our dad we expect you to jump on it at water replied that if they were struggling to trust him one of them should come and join the campaign and keep an eye on him and help him run the campaign. So it'll be me and one of you. Good response. Yeah.

George Dobya accepts. Okay. I'll come and do that then. So you've now got Atwater and little George running their campaign for Bush. Bush was very pleased with the idea of his eldest boy coming to help out the campaign. I'll quote her. I think he will be a good insight to me. He is very level-headed.

Good to know. So yeah, he-headed. It's a no. So, yeah, he's happy. Happy he's got his family. Now, the campaign's still years away. It's very much pre-campaign stage. But Atwater started his work and soon found problems. The ever-growing conservative faction of the GOP found Bush to be weak. He was often the butt of lapdog jokes in general political conversations.

He was seen as a man with no spine parroting their hero, Reagan. Now, this was tricky for Bush. He did not want to move to the right because he didn't agree with that wing of the party. And even if he did, they would see it as a weakness. But that wing of the party

is what is making and breaking things right now in the Republican Party. So he was in a tricky situation. How does he win there? He knew that to win overall, the far right had to at least be okay with him. So he let it be known publicly that he not only supported Reagan on things like abortion laws being strengthened, but he was now, now that he'd thought about it, like really properly, he was now personally fully in support of the pro-life movement. So, yeah, I'm not just agreeing with Reagan here now.

I'm really, really anti-abortion now. And as for taxes, that stuff about voodoo economics, well, that was all wrong. That was all politics. Politics. Well, in his heart and in his head, Bush still thought Reagan was wrong and had got it wrong.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary. Well, no, because the evidence to the contrary wasn't that stacked up. Yes, the economy was going through a boom at the moment, and that was hiding the fact that Reagan's policies weren't great. Because Reagan's ripping out of regulations and lack of care on the deficit,

Bush was convinced would lead to a bill that had to be paid sooner or later, quite likely in the next administration. But I'll deal with that when I'm president. Yeah. Trouble was, despite the fact he still wasn't convinced by Reagan's economic plan, even though he was publicly supporting it,

he couldn't voice that because he had publicly been supporting it. So he had to keep agreeing with this economic plan that he wasn't particularly happy with. And he had to say that he would continue to do it. So that's not great. And also then in the midterms, the Republicans lost the Senate, indicating that the national mood was perhaps starting to shift towards the Democrats once more. If he's going to, even if he gets the nomination,

he would be up against a Democrat after eight years of Republican rule. It's rare that a party gets three terms in a row. It would be hard for him to win, so it just seems all going against him at this point.

And then it came out that Reagan had been selling arms to Iran in exchange for the freeing of the hostages, something that was definitely illegal. Whoops. The signs of the biggest scandal since Watergate began to show, and this mud was going to stick to Bush because, to put it very bluntly, he was in the thick of it. Yeah. There was no, oh, I didn't know what the president was doing. No, no, he was right there.

His diaries state that he was one of the few who knew the details. He had been present in several meetings where the illegality of what they were doing had been raised. Bush, true to his vice president form, had done nothing but fully support the president's decision. He had basically sat there in silence until Reagan had said, yeah, let's do something illegal, and then he had gone, yes, sir, I agree. And because Reagan had decided to break the law, Bush agreed with it. There is no denying this, it just is what he did.

During all of this, Bush had publicly stated that it was ridiculous to consider selling arms to Iran. So he was publicly saying one thing, privately voting for other things in the situation room or during meetings. Then the Secretary of State, it was changed to a man named Schultz by this point, he warned Bush, you need to be more careful when speaking publicly. Breaking the law is one thing. Lying about it is fatal. You've got to stop going out and saying that we're doing the opposite of what we're doing. Just be quiet. Bush was annoyed by this. He felt like he was being told off. However, the Secretary of the Treasury later told Schultz that he had saved Bush's political career that night by telling

him to just be quiet, which is quite likely true, because now that the truth had been leaked, and it was clear that Bush had lied, he stated that mistakes had been made, and he had supported the president's decision. He then, after talking to Atwater about what to do about this, they then just leak everything that could damage him to the press. Every meeting he could think of that was linked to the Iran situation. Let's just get it all out there. The idea was that they wanted nothing to come out of the woodworks during the election. So let's just get it over and done with right now. However, in an attempt to soften the blowback,

he kind of hinted that he might not have supported the illegal actions if various other people had spoken up, such as the Secretary of State. In fact, he said, and I quote, But when you don't know something, it's hard to react. We were not in the loop. Now, this was news to Schultz, who remembered Bush being very supportive of Reagan. And also... You had t-shirts made and everything.

And also, it's just not a good look. Saying that it's hard to have opinions on stuff and saying that you're not in the loop makes you just sound weak. It's not something that you'd be saying if you're campaigning to be the president soon. So it's just not great. And then it just keeps getting worse. It then

came out that the money from the arms sales were going to the Contra in Nicaragua. And that's very, very illegal. Bush, attempting to get ahead of the scandal, talked to Reagan, suggesting that he take a polygraph to prove that he had nothing to do with it. And then, once that's proven, perhaps I could lead an internal review on what happened here, he said to Reagan. But that went nowhere.

Reagan listened to him, politely showed him the door, and then just did nothing about that suggestion. Bush was obviously hoping here to convince people that he was not involved. And it would appear he wasn't involved in this part. There's no indication to show that he was involved in this particular illegality. But yeah, the investigation that did take place afterwards found that he wasn't involved. But because his name's so close to Reagan's at this point, any scandal involving the president's administration immediately will drag him down.

So it's not going great. And while all this is going on, the campaign starts to, like, build up. People are starting to talk about who is actually running. Atwater was not happy with the signs. Bush's main opponent for the nomination was a man named Dole. Bob Dole. Yes. Heard of someone called Bob Dole.

That name is in my head. Is it the Dole you're mentioning? Yes, Bob Dole, who you have heard of. Yes. But you can't say anything about him? Nope. You've just heard the name. Well, yeah, that's who he's up against.

He must be in other things as well, because it's a name i know quite well unless he's just been in cultural i've seen on a film or something i don't know it's because we're getting more modern and he um he will be in politics uh for quite a while to come if i remember correctly he i think he's the nominee in one election in the 90s he's uh the house leader in the 90s i think so yeah he was a the 90s, I think. So yeah, he was a prominent politician. So maybe that's why you've got his name in his head. But yes, this is who he's up against. Bob Dole. Editing Rob here. Yes, yes, Bob Dole. He did indeed run for president in 1996 against Clinton. So I remember that bit right, which is good, but he wasn't the House Speaker, he was the Senate Majority Leader.

A couple of times from the mid-80s to the mid-90s, he was the Republican Leader in the Senate. So there you go, that's Bob Dole. And I'm impressed with Jamie for knowing this. I'm going to give him five ranking points for those of you keeping track. Anyway, back to the episode. Yes! I knew something! You did know something. So, Dole was up on Bush in the polls.

You might think being the vice president would give you a bit of a head start, but apparently not, because Bush was seen, as we've already said, as a spineless lapdog to the president, not because bush was seen as we've already said as a spineless lapdog to the president who was increasingly being seen as corrupt and then things get even worse yeah because bush came third in iowa yeah now considering he won eight years ago in iowa and then lost the election well the nomination sorry this, sorry. This was a bad sign. If you can't even get Iowa, then you're screwed. Primaries have only just started, and it's really looking bad for him.

What year is this? We will be talking about 87 at this point. Hey! And at this point... At this point, yeah, you would have been born around this point. Yeah. Because there's an interesting story.

There were two people that were living in England at the time called Julia and Stephen. And this eagle flew down from the tree, grabbed this snake and lifted it up. Yeah. And it was an omen, Rob. Was it an omen? It was an omen.

Omen of this podcast. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So that was going on at the same time as the New Hampshire primary was going on. You're welcome. Yeah. Continue. Yeah. Thank you for highlighting that.

That's right. Well, Bush was very concerned about the news in the national papers about the omen in England, but there was nothing they could do about it. So they turned to more immediate events, which was the New Hampshire primary. If he lost here, that was it. It was all over. Momentum would never be gained. That's just it. It's gone.

But fortunately for Bush, things turned. After heavy campaigning, he manages to win. But only after putting out quite a negative attack at Andol. Something that he swore he would never do. He wanted to stay positive in his campaigns. It wasn't going to go negative. But his campaign were really worried. If they didn't win this, they were out. So they went

negative and it worked. But Bush was still worried. Not about Dole, but Tide seems to have turned with Dole. He felt like he could beat him. But another candidate was starting to look quite prominent and this was Robinson, who was a televangelist. He had the extreme right side, wasn't he? Yeah, well he was

gaining ground. Yeah, very much the far right candidate. He decided to try and pick up Reagan's further right base, which we're talking the extremes of the GOP for the time. And his supporters, frankly, just worried Bush. I'll quote him. They're scary. They're there for spooky, extraordinary right-winged reasons.

They don't care about the party. They don't care about anything. They're in the excesses. They could be Nazis. They could be communists. They could be whatever. They will destroy this party if permitted to take over. Interesting. Which is interesting, isn't it?

Very interesting. Yes. One Robinson supporting woman in particular shook him when he met her. She was not polite to Bush. And she, to Bush, seemed unhinged and more interested in crazy conspiracy theories than policies or even personalities. I'll quote Bush again here. I couldn't tell, it might not be fair to that one woman, but that's the problem that Robinson brings to bear on the agenda. So here we are in the late 80s, with Bush worrying that there was a growing faction of voters who maybe like the conspiracy theory or two. And Bush just couldn't see how he was going to get those votes. They were unattainable. There's no way he can fight against that. However, it didn't matter because the victory in New Hampshire gave him the momentum he desired. Reagan was more vocal about

Bush being an okay president. It was lukewarm. It wasn't a formal endorsement. But yeah, people started to ask him about potential vice presidents, a clear sign that people thought he was going to win. So things start looking good. Incidentally, he did receive word about one potential vice president at this point. You might find this interesting. A New York developer had got in contact with him, wanting to know if he could maybe be the vice president

to Bush if they were running. This New York developer was called Donald Trump. You're all right there. Sorry. No, no, I'm not. Already? Wow. Yeah, well, yeah, Bush was very confused and discounted it without a second thought and thought it was and i quote here strange and unbelievable tell me about it well trump at this point was a big name in new york i mean after all he'd uh been in home alone too uh so that was in the 90s oh right okay he's not quite made it there yet. But yeah, he was a big name in business and development. But mainly, let's be honest, he was also mainly known for being a bit of a loose cannon, a playboy, and frankly, a bit odd.

We're only a couple of years away here from him starting to do a round of phone interviews with people where he pretended to be his own spokesperson, where he bragged about his way with women and how Madonna wanted to sleep with him. It was things like that he was getting up to around this time, which a lot of people in New York just went, oh, wow, that's Donald Trump, that is it. Anyway, Bush could ignore this. That's just weird. And it's obviously not going to have any impact on the Republican Party whatsoever, he thought. Anyway, back to politics. He thought polling was suggested that he was in the lead. And soon enough, with some, to be honest, lukewarm endorsement from Reagan and Nixon, he was in the front. He was definitely going to win. The

competition all dropped away. So yeah, he didn't have to campaign anymore. He was going to win. Everyone else just backed out. Meanwhile, the Democrats had chosen a man named Dukakis. He was the governor from Massachusetts. Bush was happy enough with this. He believed Dukakis was far too liberal for a country that had been behind Reagan for eight years. However, this proved too hopeful, or at least to begin with.

Initial polls showed Dukakis was way ahead in the polls. People seemed to think it was time for a years. However, this proved too hopeful, or at least to begin with. Initial polls showed Dukakis was way ahead in the polls. People seemed to think it was time for a change. Further polls found Bush slipping away even more. He was as low as 38% in some of them. This was devastating polling. So the Bush campaign decided it was time for desperate measures. They went full-on nasty attack mode. Oh. Yeah, they painted Dukakis as an unpatriotic liberal extremist. When Dukakis came out stating that he didn't believe that the death penalty worked as a deterrent, the Bush campaign painted him as weak on crime. At one point, he said that he didn't think all children had to pledge allegiance to the flag every single morning in a school.

He was painted as un-American. Does that actually happen? I thought it was just like on TV. That can't happen, can it? Does it still happen? It is a very, very strange thing if you're not in America that that happens. Anyone who is in America and just thinks that's normal, that's just because you live in it.

From an outside perspective, it is weird. I'm going to look up if they still do it. It gives a very North Korea vibe, doesn't'm going to look up if they still do it. It gives very North Korea vibes. Yeah. Apparently they do still say it. Really? But they don't legally have to because First Amendment overrides it. But apparently they still do it.

Yeah. Wow. I just thought it was a thing on TV. In films, I didn't realise they actually did it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So anyway, D dakaka said something along

the lines of it's not that important um and yeah he was he was vilified uh by the bush uh as will we be as i'm sure we will be in reviews of this podcast uh yeah so all that was going on um then the bush campaign got hold of a story of a man named William Horton. Horton was serving a life sentence, but had been released for a weekend on a furlough scheme. He did a runner on that furlough scheme and then went on a violent crime spree where people died. It was not pleasant. Bush used this story as often as possible to explain why the country was not safe in the hands of liberals. Dukakis was the governor of the state that Horton

was imprisoning, so there was a link there. The Bush campaign saw this as a really good way to attack Dukakis. However, the Dukakis campaign then accused the Bush campaign of playing on racial fears. Horton, by the way happened to be black so yeah the attack ads soon started to resemble look at the scary black man yeah if you vote into carcass look who's coming to get you yeah uh it's very much debatable whether it started off as obvious race issue attack line that Bush's campaign thought up of, or whether it was just attacking crime, which is certainly what Bush claims. They were just going tough on crime, and Horton just happened to be black.

But whether it was intentional or not, it's exactly what it turned into. It turned into a big, horrible race debate that just coloured all the election. Yeah, soon enough, there were so many attack ads going on that people were saying it was the ugliest campaign in US history, which is very debatable, but it wasn't a pleasant campaign. Lots of nasty things were being said by everyone. But the attack ads worked, because by the end of the campaign, people figured that they'd be safer under Bush,

and that Dukakis was not to be trusted. Bush won decisively 54% to 45%. He won 426 of the Electoral College votes to 111. So Republicans went for the third time in a row.

Again, we are not far from Watergate. The Democrats must be just looking at themselves at this point going, what is going on? Yeah, it had been a messy campaign, but he'd done it. George H.W. Bush was to be the 41st president of the United States of America. Wow. And next time, Jamie, we will find out what he does. Let's see. So, there you go. How are you feeling about him now?

He's clearly become a politician. Yeah. So the first episode, I was like, oh, I'm pleasantly surprised. He seems like a decent guy. Yeah. This episode, he just comes across as spineless. Yeah. He doesn't stick to his own convictions.

Yeah. Or at all he doesn't agree with reagan but he's there just saying reagan's great because he thinks it will get him ultimately to the white house it worked he would i'm sure be horrified if anyone accused him of being sexist or racist but he's happy to use sexist and racist language and tropes to help him win elections it's yeah it's less good this episode isn't it yeah um but he's not coming across as a really nasty man i'm still not getting nixon or reagan vibes off him where i really struggle to like them personally uh so yeah feels like he sold his soul a little bit does little bit, but maybe it'll be worth it. Maybe once he's in the White House, he'll...

I know he's a one-term president, so probably not. Yeah, who knows? Well, there we go. That is Bush Part 2. Thank you very much for listening. There will be a little bit of a delay, more than the two weeks delay before Part 3, because Jamie's going on holiday. Yay!

Yes he is, so yeah, it'll be a little bit longer before the next time, but we're not talking a huge amount of time, hopefully three weeks instead of the two weeks. Yeah. Something like that, and in the meantime, Jamie, we should have what out? First Star Trek person episode.

Yes! So the first real Star Trek episode will be out for our Patreon members. If you're listening to this just as it comes out, it will probably be out within the next week or two. Yes. I'll do the week after this one.

Cool. Okay then. Yeah. Because we'll be recording it tomorrow. Very exciting. Yes. Yes. Great.

Okay then. So that's all the announcement, yes. Great. Okay, then. So that's all the announcement stuff out the way. Thank you very much for listening. And all that needs to be said is... Oh, sorry, Jamie. I just jumped in there. Thank you for listening. That's fine.

That's fine. You say your bit. Go on. No, it's all right. No, it's all right. It's fine. Fine. Thank you for downloading us on PopD and iTunes, wherever you do.

And thanks for following us on Twitter and Facebook and threads as well. Yes, we are now on threads and Twitter. What's Twitter, Jamie? X, sorry. It always feels like when I see it on my phone now, it looks like I've got a porn app on my phone. It's really bad. Jamie, Jamie, look at this.

Look at this on my phone. Can you see it? Don't show me a porn app, Rob. No. Look at that. Can you see it? Oh, how come you've got that? Did you not update?

Nope. I've not updated updating i'm not planning to i'm going to have the actual twitter icon for as long as i can as you've got a porn app on your phone yeah yes yeah so there you go so i've still got twitter you've got whatever whatever's happened to twitter yeah anyway you'll find us on there but also on threads and other general social media sites. Right. We're waffling, so we should probably say goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Well, thank you for coming, Mr. Bush.

It's my pleasure. Now, before, obviously, we can confirm your position as director of the Central Intelligence Agency, we obviously need to make sure that you're the right man for the job. Of course. And you are a Republican, and I must say, I'm slightly concerned that you might be partisan. No. Oh, so you won't be partisan? No. Oh, okay. That's, um, okay. Sorry. Let me just find another question. I kind of thought that that would go on a bit longer. Okay. Well, what about this, Mr. Bush? If you were the head of the CIA and the president ordered you to find dirt on, say, Ronald Reagan, rising star of the Republican Party, and your president asked you to find dirt on a political opponent, well, maybe you would do that. What would you do, Mr. Bush, if the president asked you to find dirt? I would simply say no. I'm sorry?

No. Right. Okay. Okay. I kind of thought that would go on for longer as well. Okay. Hang on. I've got another one.

Okay. So what if you are the head of the CIA and all of a sudden someone's dragged into your office and someone says it's a spy Mr. Bush it's a spy and you're handed a gun and you're told to shoot the man in the head right there and then

because it's a spy and then it turns out it's actually the political opponent of the president what would you do then Mr. Bush? Would you say yes I will kill him? I would say no Are you sure? Yes Yes? So you would kill him. I would say no. Are you sure?

Yes. Yes, so you would kill him? No, no. I am sure that I would not kill him. Right, okay. But you are partisan though, aren't you? Nope. Oh, go on.

Go on, just say you're partisan. Nuh-uh. But, I mean, you're a Republican. You're obviously going to be a partisan. Oh, come on. Just admit. Please. Please. I've ran out of questions and I've still got three minutes left on the clock and

I thought you would have broken mine out, to be honest. You thought wrong. Damn it. Right, well, I'm out of questions. Seems good to me.