American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 42.1 Bill Clinton

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

In episode 1 of Bill Clinton we look at his life before being president. Did he inhale? Did he dodge the draft? Did he sleep with all the women? Yes. Yes he did.

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Bill Clinton Part 1. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 42.1. Wow, we're getting modern. It's none other than the Bill of the Clintons. Oh, yes. Big Daddy Bill. Yeah. Yeah, it's Bill Clinton and Jamie.

Jamie, this is the first president I remember. Yes. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I remember him being in the news. I remember him being around. I definitely remember him being in the news. Yeah, exactly.

But how much do you know about him? I know he met JFK. Oh, yes. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. I do remember that. I know that the marriage is essentially a sham. Ooh.

Controversial. I know he's a fan of cigars. Interesting. Interesting. Well, we'll find out, shall we? But before we start, obviously, it's intro time. So I actually have an intro planned out. Okay.

Go with it, then. You roll it. Just go go for it you don't give me anything this time unless you were about to say a field of corn oh my goodness i was going to say that okay well we'll edit this bit out just say a field of corn okay cigar case damn you jamie damn a field of corn open on a small body of water, surrounded by corn. Yes. That was really well woven in, Rob. Yeah, I thought that was good. Yet you realise this small body of water is a drainage ditch in a field. That's what it is.

It's a peaceful scene. Birds tweeting in the distance. The corn is wafting in the breeze. Then you hear the slow build of the roar of an engine in the distance. The corn is wafting in the breeze. Then you hear the slow build of the roar of an engine in the distance, but you can't see anything because you're just focused on this field of a small ditch of water in front of you. The roar of the engine is getting louder and then suddenly a loud bang. The shot doesn't change. This is all going on from out of shot. But then rolling into shot is an old fashioned maroon car. It looks like something from World War But then, rolling into shot, is an old-fashioned maroon car.

It looks like something from World War II era, you're guessing, as you see this car rolling. That looks like it's from about the World War II era, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, the car violently rolls twice, coming ever closer to the camera. Now you see a man get thrown through the windscreen and land splash smack in front of you in the water filled ditch.

Is he okay? Well, the water's only a couple of feet deep, but the man is not a good state. You see him try and crawl out, grasping at some wheat, but then he falls unconscious and his head slips beneath the water. And that's where we're starting today. Oh, okay. And that's exactly where we're starting today, because we're now not flashing back or anything, because while that is happening,

cut to a woman on her own, heavily pregnant. Oh. Oh, dear. Yes. Oh, dear. So we start in Hope, Arkansas, in August of 1946, and it's been a busy summer for future presidents. Fun fact about Arkansas.

Oh, go on, then. Go on. Well, it's actually not. I, until I think within the last 10 years, maybe 12 years, I thought it was pronounced Arkansas. Well, you would, wouldn't you? You've got Kansas, and you've got Arkansas. Yeah.

Their Kansas, our Kansas. Yeah. Yeah, but no. would wouldn't you you've got kansas and you've got our kansas yeah their kansas our kansas yeah yeah but no no apparently it's to do with the uh pronunciation in french or english and how it went over time or something like that i can't say i've looked into it i'm sure our listeners will correct us on on exactly why it's arkansas and not our kansas uh but yeah we're in arkansas it's 1946 and as i as i saying, busy summer for future presidents, or more to point, it was before a busy winter for future presidents' parents. Yeah. Yes, because in the last two months, Donald Trump and George W. Bush have been born.

Yeah. Yeah. And Biden was born a few years earlier, wasn't he? Oh, Biden's, like, I don't know, graduating university or something at this stage. Yeah. But yes, no, you're absolutely right. Biden's a few years old at this point. And you get Bush, Trump and Clinton

all born within a couple of months of each other. That's crazy to think that Clinton's the same age as Trump. Yeah. There's something that doesn't quite work in my head. Yeah, I know. And at the moment, the big kind of all Biden's too old to be president, which, yeah. Yeah. There's something that doesn't quite work in my head. Yeah, I know. And at the moment, the big kind of all Biden's too old to be president, which, yeah. Yeah. But also, the guy who's most likely going to be running against him, he's the same age.

And that seems to just be forgotten a lot. Well, not exactly the same age, but close enough. But yeah, Donald Trump, George W. Bush, Clinton, all almost identical in age. Crazy. But still, that Trump, George W. Bush, Clinton, all almost identical in age. Crazy. But still, that was June and July. We're now in August. And a small baby boy is born and given the name of William Jefferson Blythe III. Oh, what awful parents.

Yeah, that's right. That is a name that if he was born in this country would either exclude him from politics or guarantee him a leading role in one of the parties depending on which party he belonged to yeah there is no way a william jefferson blithe the third's getting into labor oh absolutely there's no way he's not going to be the prime minister in the tory party so but we're in america, so it's all very different. Anyway, William Jefferson Blythe III, his mother was Virginia Dal Cassidy. And she was all alone, sort of. She was living with her mother and she was hating it.

Her husband, who she had only known a few months before he was shipped out to war, had returned a few months earlier. And he's currently out buying a case of whiskey to celebrate the purchase of their new house. Or so she thinks. Now, the father, who we've already come across in this episode, have you figured out who he is yet? Yeah. Yeah, this is William Blythe.

Before you feel too sorry for William Blythe, currently drowning in that ditch of water, I'm just going to point out that he sounds like a character, shall we say. Okay. Yes. In the eight years after he was 17 years old, he was married five times. Five times? Five times in eight years.

Once to sisters. Yeah. He married two sisters. And when he married Virginia, so Bill's mother, he was still technically married. So he was a bigamist as well. Wow. So who knows how well the marriage would have gone had he had not just died in that ditch of water.

But I'm guessing it probably wouldn't have ended well anyway. No, possibly not. Possibly not, but... That's crazy. Still, all that is said, William Blythe has died. This leaves Virginia with little William Blythe, who we will just call Little Bill or Billy for now. And it was not a happy time.

From all accounts, Virginia had really enjoyed her time in Hope, where she lived during the war. And then she had moved to New Orleans and worked as a nurse during the day, and in the evenings, she liked to party. You've been to New Orleans. It's an amazing place. At the time, it was full of soldiers,

and she and her friends loved everything that that came with. It was flirting, partying, and then getting to know people. Yeah. Yes. For her, the war was a fun, exciting time. But now she was home again, and suddenly she was back with a husband that she barely knew, and now she was suddenly a widow.

How times change. Yeah. And her mother had become completely unbearable. Little Bill was soon under the care of his grandmother, who was shutting her daughter out. Edith is the name of the grandmother. And Edith saw Virginia as immature, selfish, and unfit to raise a child. Virginia saw her mother, Edith, as domineering and overbearing.

This is my child, mother. You can't look after it. Arguments were common. Arguments of the throwing crockery variety. That kind of arguments, yes. Healthy ones, then. Yes, not fun. Things did not get better when Virginia started dating again.

She found it much more tricky than before. Virginia was apparently quite the looker, very outgoing, loved to get up on stage and sing songs, that kind of thing. She found it very easy to attract the men, and she enjoyed attracting the men. But suddenly, she's got her little boy in tow, and she finds it much harder to date. She is finding that very frustrating.

One of her friends later said, I'm not sure Hope has a whole lot of eligible men who would have been willing to date Virginia, much less a woman who already had a son hope's not new orleans it's not the party town but she then met someone who was traveling through the town with a relative on business this this guy worked for an automobile company and was known as the dude brilliant thing did he call himself that was he bestowed it by the people? No, apparently that was his nickname. To be fair, I don't know whether he started his own nickname.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It's like, just call me Dude, man. Just call me Dude. I mean, we're talking post-war. I'm thinking the fonts here. I'm thinking slicked-back hair, greaser, leather jacket is what I'm thinking. Yo, how you guys doing? I can't tell any accent.

Yeah. Yes. Anyway, the dude, his real name was Roger Clinton. And he was known to his friends as being wild and boisterous, hard drinking, a womanizer, a skirt chasing fella who liked to gamble hard. a skirt-chasing fella who liked to gamble hard. This all sounded ideal to Virginia, who was very bored of small-town life. This was exactly the sort of man that she was looking for.

She was looking for adventure and excitement. In fact, I'll quote her here. She saw him as dashing in a dangerous sort of way. The two of them seemed pretty much made for each other, but also it didn't necessarily sound like it was going to be the smoothest relationship, shall we say. Sounds a little bit combustible. Yeah. Anyway, Edith, the grandmother, despised that her daughter was keeping such company, especially the fact that her beloved grandson, little Billy, was being subjected to the likes of the dude. He was just not her sort of

man. So in hopes of convincing Virginia to be more responsible, she convinced Virginia to carry on training to be a nurse down in New Orleans. Go and do what you did during the war. You could become more trained. You can get a better job. Become respectable. Back to New Orleans. Yeah. Brilliant. Great idea. Well, yeah, Virginia was very, very tempted. Couldn't go down with little Bill, though. That wouldn't work. She wouldn't have time to look after Bill if she was doing more training.

So instead, leave little Bill in Edith's care. This suited Edith down to the ground. She very much wanted to be looking after her grandchild. But also, in Edith's mind, this also gets Virginia away from the dude, Roger Yeah So Virginia, like you say Remembering the fun in New Orleans

Yeah, I'll do this So she goes for it Off she goes down to New Orleans Bill is left with Edith But much to Edith's annoyance It did not stop the romance between Roger and Virginia Roger was prepared to spend the money For his girl to fly home

So he could see her between the other woman that he was seeing regularly. Excellent. He was a girlfriend in every town he went through kind of guy by the sounds of it. Sounds like us at uni. Yeah we just never went through any towns. Just on the motorway straight there. Once Virginia completed her training she moved back. Soon enough, her and Roger were buying a place together in Hot Springs. Hot Springs is a town known for being the rowdy gambling town of the state. Again, this suited Roger and Virginia down to the ground. They wanted to be where the action was. At this point, the two have a child, Roger Jr. So Bill has a little baby brother. And the young family settle down to their life of domestic bliss in their comfortable five-bedroom house. Ah, how nice.

Yeah, you've got that tone in your voice, Rob. Yeah, I do have that tone, as you can probably predict. Roger was not the type to settle down in domestic bliss. He soon became very bored and frustrated and was drinking very heavily. He wasn't the kind of drinker who became morose and introspective. No, he was the kind of drinker who would get violent and angry. Domestic violence soon became very commonplace. Virginia was beaten regularly. One time, Roger pulled out a gun and shot at his wife,

narrowly missing her. Bloody hell. Yeah. Just in that argument. It's what happens when guns are being kept around drunk, angry people. Another time, he grabbed her and a pair of scissors and put the pair of scissors to her throat, threatening to kill her. This, by the way, whilst the children are all in that house. So you've still got little Roger and Bill in the house whilst all this is happening.

It was not a pleasant house to grow up in. No. So as you can imagine, little Billy would get out the house quite a bit. He was often found riding his bike around the neighbourhood in a full-on cowboy suit apparently, including hat and little waistcoat. Roger had bought him that,

so that's nice, I suppose. Yeah, he starts school. Unsurprisingly, once you know the backstory, little Bill apparently was obsessed with people liking him to his detriment because he would not stop talking to people and he would force his way into the other children's games when he wasn't invited. One classmate remembered him, and I quote, as the most obnoxious kid. So that's not good.

He's a young child, though. He's a young child, yeah. I can't get into too much. Unfortunately, the other kids did because they broke his leg. Whoa. What? Yeah. Yeah.

One day he inserted himself into a game involving a skipping rope. The other kids didn't want him to join in, but he just jumped into the middle of it, so they purposely pulled the rope tight to trip him over. He tripped over and broke his leg in three places. He spent weeks with his leg suspended

from the ceiling as the breaks healed. By the time in the early 1950s, that's... Yeah, not nice. Anyway, once home again, Billy got on with growing older As people generally do He started to create a defence mechanism That many children in families filled with abuse do

His coping mechanism was to be as good as possible As long as I'm good No one can possibly not like me He thought So apparently he was the perfect golden child in the house in school and in life he increasingly worked hard and was on perfect behavior a bit overbearing to the other children at times so you get the feeling he was the teacher's pet but that kid where as a teacher you see them and go why don't the other kids like this kid he's really nice yeah but all the other kids

just go oh he's just a pain he's just a pain so yeah he continued to hate the idea of being disliked and again you can see where it comes from as he rose through the education system it became clear that billy was very bright like very bright he was acing all of his classes and added to that he put the work in as well so he was always top of the class not only that he threw himself into extracurricular activities including how to learn the saxophone which i'm surprised you didn't say something that you knew when i said what do you know about him i thought you were going to bring that up yeah no i forgot about that yeah he does yeah no he learned how to play the saxophone it soon became clear to billy that he wasn't going to be an athlete he didn't dislike sports

but he was not an athlete it It just wasn't really his interests. But he was standing out at school for other reasons. His intelligence, his music ability, his general good looks, coupled with his charm and his determination that people liked him, meant that he was soon very popular, mainly with the girls. He didn't have many male friends. He tended to just have a group of girls around him at all times because he would pay a lot of attention to them, making sure that they were all as happy as possible because he craved attention. So it sounds like he's got over that

really early stage of just butting his way into things and he's now controlling it a little bit better. So like I say, he mostly had female friends, mostly younger than him. Most of them apparently had a crush on him. One girlfriend at the time commented later that he would change himself chameleon-like to suit who he was talking to, to make sure that the person liked him. It's a good skill to have. It is, especially if you want to go into politics. Yeah. Anyway, things are still bad at home. After Roger came home drunk one night, He started screaming at Virginia in the bedroom 13 year old Bill kicked the bedroom door open And told his stepfather that he would never touch his mother again

Finally there's a confrontation between the two The police were called Roger was taken in He was arrested All very distressing for everyone all around Roger didn't disappear from their lives however Virginia did divorce him a couple of years later, but then remarried. It was that kind of relationship. But for Billy, a corner had been turned at this point. He knew he could now stand up against the

man. So, for what it was worth, he now knew that fact. And things were not all bad. I mean, the picture I've painted so far sounds pretty bad, and it certainly was bad, but his mother was in the house as well, and his mother was absolutely devoted to both of her children. Apparently she had what was known as the shrine in her house. That's what Bill's friends called it. The shrine was a whole wall of the house that was dedicated to Bill and his achievements. Bill achieved a lot. He was an overachiever.

This wall was full of photographs medals certificates ribbons that that's good because imagine if he wasn't a high achiever just like one took parts kind of thing just a massive banner saying well done bill and a huge blown up photo of him yeah and a third place at the science fair ribbon yeah yeah no no there's plenty to put up apparently by this time he was president of the key club and the beta club these were things i didn't know existed i had to look them up they're like clubs where you do things to prepare yourself in later life and i i think it's a little bit like uh the prince prince of wales thing that we have in this country that

fortunately we were never roped into. Oh, Duke of Edinburgh. Yes, that's it. Yeah, something like that. Sounds similar to that. It's where the goody two-shoes kids go and go and prove how wonderful they are, I think. Again, I'm sure our listeners will be calling in saying, no, it's not.

But yeah, extracurricular activity clubs where people do stuff. Yeah. Anyway, he was president of them. He played sax in his jazz band called the Three Blind Mice. Good jazz band name. Perfect jazz band name. And in his school, he ended up graduating fourth out of 363.

So pretty damn good. That's very good. Around this time, he was invited to the National Convention of the Boys Nation in Washington, D.C. And Boys Nation is something else I had to look up, and that seemed a bit scary, I'll be honest. Yeah. Again, I didn't go into much detail, and I'm sure our listeners will be able to tell me more. But a lot of very, very straight-laced, severe-looking white boys in matching polo shirts, looking white boys in matching polo shirts looking very happy standing around Donald Trump was the latest photo of them that I found. I'm sure it's fine. It just seemed very white.

It sounds a bit like the Bullingdon Club, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. It sounds like it's full of very privileged people who are there because they have privilege. But again, I don't live in the country, and this is the first time I have come across it, so who knows? And maybe it was different back then. Anyway, he's in it because he's very, very bright, and his academic achievement means he is in the Boys' Nation. And he was chosen to represent Arkansas in Washington, D.C.

So he goes to the White House, and, like you said, he meets the president. And this is why we have that photo of a young Bill Clinton shaking hands with JFK. JFK becomes his hero. This has a huge impact on Bill. He realised that politics is what he wanted to do. He was going to be a politician. We very rarely come across that in this podcast. No, normally it's lawyer, athletic lawyer, clever.

At this early of an age, he's not even in university yet. No, normally it's lawyer, athletic lawyer, clever usually. At this early of an age, he's not even in university yet. He already wants to be a politician. He's like 16, 17, I think. Yeah. His current girlfriend at this time often told him to stop talking about politics. No one cares, Bill. Yeah, apparently he was very passionate about the subject at this time.

He was encouraged by teachers and others to follow his gift at the saxophone. That's where lots of people were saying he should go. He was a very good saxophonist. That's how you say that word. Yeah. Saxophonist. Saxophonist. Saxophonist.

He was good at being saxy. Oh, yeah. But no, no, politics. He was determined. I'm going to be known for politics. And then Kennedy was assassinated, which obviously upset him quite a bit because Kennedy was his hero. But it didn't stop him from wanting to be a politician. If anything, it cemented the idea this is what he was going to do.

So where's he going to go? How's he going to be a politician? Where else? I'm going to go to Washington, D.C., going to go to Georgetown University. He had his pick pretty much. He is very academically gifted. So he could have walked into pretty much any of them. So off he goes, Georgetown University.

He arrived on day one and worked the dorms as if he was campaigning. He was shaking hands with all the students and parents who were dropping off for students alike, introducing himself. He was that kind of guy. I don't like this kind of people oh well this is it he was a bit hit and miss too needy yeah a lot of people felt like he really cared and he liked them and were drawn to him yeah but there were definitely some people who find that a bit overbearing i know if we were at university and someone came along like

that i know what we would be saying about that person in the pub later on that day. Yeah. But... And a third pint. Yeah, but a lot of people found his personnel skills to be really good. Okay. In fact, so much so, it led to him being elected president of the freshman class. And again, he threw himself into his work.

He did very well, being only two of 230 to get an A in the first semester. So he's continuing to be the high flyer. Upon being told by one lecturer that the great men of history did not sleep as much as others, he decided to only ever sleep five hours a night. He set his alarm and would force himself to wake up after five hours. This is where his grades dropped massively when i thought about this i i think i only sleep about five hours a night i don't think i'm a great man of history i just think i should sleep oh you are because it gets to the evening and it gets to about 12 o'clock it's like i really don't want

to go to work and if i go to bed that means i've got to go to work so i just stay awake until it's about half midnight and then by about half five i'm awake going right i should think about getting up again so yes i'm excited about half five as well and i tend to by half 11 maybe yeah i mean it depends how busy i am sometimes i can't last that long but usually it's around midnight i I go to my staff. I need to get in bed now. But yeah. So I read that and thought, ha ha, there is a chance for me to be a great man of history.

So that your grasp, Rob, just keep not sleeping and be fine. I think it's weekends that's stopping me achieving greatness because I have a lie-in at the weekends. I need to stop doing that. And then the world will be mine. I'll be remembered alongside caesar and napoleon yeah yeah uh anyway and also anyone who's a parent sleeps far less than five hours a night so that is true yeah i think whoever this teacher was was an idiot clearly but um bill bill took it to heart and decided to sleep five hours a night. Anyway,

it's, oh, sorry, bringing the mood down now. So about this time, Roger dies. So his stepfather, the dude, dies. Oh, the dude. Yes. Throat cancer killed him off in the end. Bill had managed to come to some peace with the man in the interim years. He had visited him several times when he was

ill. But as you can imagine, a complex relationship and all sorts of emotions going on. But yeah, so Bill, not happy, but certainly not torn up at the same time. Anyway, by his third year, the reasons for going to Georgetown started to pay off because he was able to get a part-time job working as a driver for his state senator. So one of the senators for Arkansas, william fulbright needed a driver and who's this bright young overachiever he can be my driver do you have a driving license bill no it doesn't matter he's got a spunk fulbright like i say is from arkansas just like bill he was the leading anti-war voice in the Senate, which was interesting because apart from this,

he was very sovereign conservative, but he was very anti-war at the same time. Bill didn't really agree with a lot of what the senator believed him, but he was anti-war, so they had that in common. And also he realised that this experience is invaluable. He is in close contact with a senator. That's amazing. Unfortunately, Bill was awful at the job.

Like, really bad. Why should he have learned to drive? Well, apparently he was a terrible driver. And he knew nothing about cars. He knew how to drive one badly. He knew nothing about cars. There was one time when something to do with the condensation in the car and it started to all flood.

And these are cars in the past that were really rubbish. Neither the senator or Bill could figure out how to fix it, even though they were apparently both very bright people. They couldn't figure out what was going on. But worse than this. Just imagine them both in a car. It's all dripping wet. Just both screaming. It's raining and just keep

driving just keep driving oh well i can't see where i'm going yeah no much worse than this uh he would argue about politics with people whilst driving the senator places so he dropped the senator off the senator would go in for his meeting or his speech or whatever he's doing and bill would be by the car and just start arguing with the other people who were around about politics. That's not what you want from your driver. You want your driver to drive you places. Yeah, shut up. Yeah, the senator had to break up an argument himself one time.

He came back to the car and Bill was in full flow. Yeah, so bad Bill was fired. So that's not good. Meanwhile, Bill was in full flow. Yeah, so bad Bill was fired. So that's not good. Meanwhile, Bill was changing. He was getting hair in places. His voice dropped. No, not quite. Well, actually, sort of.

Hair was growing in places that it wasn't growing before because his clean-cut, all-American boy image had started to slip somewhat. His hair was growing longer. He was wearing sandals and hanging out with some suspiciously hippie-looking characters. Oh, he's not becoming a hippie, is he? Potentially.

We're not entirely sure at this time. At least I couldn't figure out. But it would appear that he started smoking weed at this time, but not inhaling, of course. Is that something else you remember about his presidency? The I did not inhale? No. Oh, right. Okay, I thought you might recognise that. It's a famous, of course. Is that something else you remember about his presidency? The I did not inhale? No. Oh, right.

Okay. I thought you might recognise that. It's a famous quote of his. That's not actually from this period. I'll tell you when it comes from and I'll explain it later. But yes, he's hanging out with some hippie types and he is openly criticising the president and, get this, America's place in the world.

Old friends from back home marvelled at the change, but one way he stayed the same was his desire to be liked. And he soon was enjoying the company of as many women as he could. Just like in high school, he always had lots of female friends around him. He's a bit older now, and when you're a bit older, you start doing other activities, don't you? Well, so I've heard. So you have heard. He was rubbing shoulders with powerful people on Capitol Hill, and being close to power is certainly a way to impress, and he was able to use this to impress a lot of people. So he was, shall we say, having a good time.

Yeah. Yes. Now, despite spending less time on his studies, he graduated with flying colours, so much so that in 1968 he was offered, along with only 31 others A Rhodes Scholarship A Rhodes Scholarship is from Oxford As in Oxford, England

Yes, this is where the brightest And best of various universities In the British Ex-colonies are invited To study at Oxford That's quite cool Yes, this was set up by a person called Rhodes who wanted to get closer ties

from across the world to Oxford. So just send out for the best and they'll come to us. Sorry, I'm looking for an image of Bill Clinton. Oh, yes. Oh, wow. Have you got young Bill Clinton there? I've got him with long hair, facial hair. Yeah.

From 1971. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that's probably him just after he came back from Oxford. So he might not quite look like that yet. But, yeah. Wow, that's a striking look. Yeah. He's got thick hair. That must be a

pain to manage. Yeah. Sorry. So, anyway, he travels by steamboat to England, that hair wafting in the breeze as he goes. He's hanging off the side of the boat. Yeah. Just going off behind him. Yeah. Off to England, that hair wafting in the breeze as he goes. He's hanging off the side of the boat. It's just going off behind him. Yeah, off to England and he soon settles in. He was lonely at first. He missed the sun

apparently. He complained how the sun only came out in April and even then didn't seem to stay for very long. Welcome to the UK. Yeah. However, he was very pleasantly surprised and loved at how green everything was. It's like the fields are all green and the trees are all green. Everything's green.

Yeah, we imagine trees. Which is something I read that and it's like, well, yeah, that's something I fully take for granted in this country. That's true. He was also enjoying himself at one of the most prestigious universities in the world, studying but also letting his flowing hair down. Because by this point, he certainly was smoking all of the weed. This is when the I did not inhale famous accusations come from. Okay. As you don't know, I'll just quickly explain now. Later on in life, he is accused of maybe once having smoked some of the marijuana. Marijuana.

Yeah. And obviously, Bill Clinton admits that maybe, maybe, just once, some of the smoke went in his mouth, but he did not inhale it. No. So, I did not inhale, just became this thing. Yeah. But we'll get to that later.

Anyway, he's in university. I did not have relations with that spliff. So he's having a good time. He's loving university. He's in Oxford. He's smoking the weed. He's sleeping with the English ladies. He is studying at a very fancy university. And he is just loving life.

Drinking warm bitter in the Eagle and Child, I'm guessing, with Tolkien. Yeah. I'm sure Tolkien was there at that time. I'm sure Tolkien's still there. Yeah, yeah. Yes, but unfortunately all of this fun suddenly comes to a horrific end because there is one thing putting a shadow over everything. Can you guess what it is?

We've hit the 70s, Jamie. Either Vietnam or Watergate? It's Vietnam. You got it first time. It's the war. Clinton received news that he had been drafted. Ooh. Yeah.

Drafted to a war that by this point he strongly disagreed with. He was hanging around with lots of very politically minded people in England who were very anti-war. He was going to campaigns and protests and all sorts. Yeah. He had banners up and this was his whole thing. And he was called up to serve in that war. However, he's in a pickle. Yes, he thought the war was immoral, so he didn't want to fight in it. And also, understandably and obviously, he didn't want to be killed, so he did not want to fight in it. On the other hand,

didn't want to be killed so he did not want to fight in it yeah on the other hand if he wanted a future in politics he had to serve his country when he was called because that would come back to haunt him later that will definitely come back to haunt him later apparently bill went to pieces panicking like had a complete breakdown after he picks himself up a little bit what do you do when you're panicking you call your mother oh yeah or your mother. Oh, yeah, or call mum. Yeah, so call mum. So he calls mum, but obviously there's nothing Virginia can do. It's just not really in her wheelhouse. However, there is some good news. Because he's in England, he was given a three-month extension for him to sign up, because he obviously had to be given time to get back home and sign up. So he spent the time writing to anyone he knew

who might be able to pull some strings to stop him from having to go to the front of the fighting. Is there anything I can do? So technically I've signed up, but I'm not in the middle of a jungle falling into a death's bike pit. Yeah. I mean, could he do something like

get off on medical grounds for, like, bone spurs or something? I hear that's quite in vogue. Well, I don't know if he tried to go down that route. It was certainly a route a lot of people went down. I know who you're thinking of in particular, but it was a route that a lot of people went down. But that is not the way he went. He figured he might be able to get somewhere where he has signed up because he not going for medical reasons will still not look good yeah yeah because everyone kind of knew what that

meant so yeah um but nothing nothing was working the weeks went by depressingly quick he threw a massive farewell party at oxford where his new friends bought him a deerstalker hat to wear when he was in the jungles. How kind of them. That's so British. Yeah. You'll be all right, old chap. Chin chin. Yeah. Once back stateside, he continued his campaign to get out of being on the front line.

Eventually, one of his contacts paid off. A friend who happened to be in the right place was able to get him an interview with the head of the Arkansas Service Board. Unfortunately, Bill was unable to use this to get a posting that was inside the United States. So one of his contacts pays off, but there was just not a job for him, so it wasn't going to work. So Bill starts a spiral. He's going to be sent out there. However, with just days to go, something came through. The same friend from before had a second idea.

How about sign up to the law school in Fayette? Now, this law school was attached to the military and would count as service. So you'd sign up to the military and you would become a military lawyer. You'd be training to be a military lawyer. It counts. That is service. the military, and you would become a military lawyer, you'd be training to be a military lawyer. It counts. That is service. However, getting on that course would not be easy.

Because I'm guessing everyone's trying. Pretty much, yeah. After pulling in favours from all the contacts he had made over his years as president of various student bodies in America and in England, he gets an interview and was offered the position starting in a few months. It actually works. He gets an interview. He impresses.

More importantly, the draft was killed there and then. This was almost unheard of. Getting deferments, maybe. What would you mean by the draft was killed? He was no longer drafted. His name was struck off. Oh, how come? Yeah, because he's now signed up to the military in this way instead. Oh, okay. But it wasn't that his name was put aside, so if he wasn't doing this, it then goes back. It's just, okay, well, you're not doing that anymore.

This was very unusual. After the elation, however, of avoiding the jungles of Vietnam, Bill looked around and found himself at what he considered a drab and boring university studying something that held no interest to him. He had panicked for three months, managed to finally get away from having to go to the front line and went, oh, I was having the time of my life at Oxford University. I was just loving every moment of it. And here I am back in bloody Arkansas. And I'm in this second-rate university that no one's ever heard of, studying to be a lawyer. I don't want to do this.

So unappealing it was to him, he started to talk to his friends about maybe how, just maybe, he should go to the front line and fight. I am that bored. Yes. The idea of studying law at Fayette is so unappealing. I'm going to go and get shot at. I was losing my mind, he later said, about his thoughts going back and forth with guilt and longing to be back in Oxford. So what's he going to do?

Or could he join the army as a musician? Just become the saxophonist. Yeah. No. In the end, Bill decided he could not live with the guilt of not going to Vietnam and staying somewhere where he hated. If he was going to have to live with the guilt, he may as well be doing something he loved.

So he decides to go back to England. What? Yeah, he just decides to go back to England. What? Yeah, he just decides to go back to England. Just fully running away from the commitment to the law placement. The only reason why his draft placement was struck off is because he is now signed up to start this course. Before he starts the course, he does a runner.

Oh. Yeah. He left a very vague letter saying that I'll be back in a few months to enrol in the law school. Promise. I've just I left the oven on

back in Oxford. So I best go and check. It's irresponsible. England's a small place. One oven blows up. Take half the country out. So I'm going to go and sort that out.

He says in his letter. Various military personnel who had pulled strings for the lad, on word from other friends, were left furious. But Bill didn't care. He's back on that steamboat with his hair wafting in the breeze once more. Yeah. Yeah.

However, once he's back in Oxford, I'm back, he says. He discovered what should have been obvious. He's no longer enrolled. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Still, he says. He discovered what should have been obvious. He's no longer enrolled. Mm, yeah. Yeah. Still, he's free. Yeah. He is free.

And if anyone's ever seen Peep Show, you know that getting a free education in a university apparently is quite easy. Yeah, he's walking. Yeah. So he just continued his life. He wasn't involved at the university He just went back He obviously went to a lot fewer lectures and stuff

But he was back on campus He was back with his friends He grew his hair even longer Perhaps fearing someone would recognise him and ask some questions This is where he grows out his beard So he's got his big beard at this point He rents a house with several friends in North Oxford where there's like mattresses on the floor,

books all over the place. There's no formal sleeping arrangements. Everyone is basically just dossing wherever they go and they just party all the time. Lots of drugs, lots of anti-war stuff. This is now full-on hippie living. That's now what he is. Makes me sick.

Bloody students. Knowing that he couldn't be on the run forever, however, he did formally ask to come off the law course. So I'm not going to do that anymore, in case it wasn't obvious. So that meant his name would be put back in the pool to be drafted. But importantly, it didn't mean that he would be drafted immediately because his numbers already come up. So in theory, it should mean, well, he's back to being drafted. But no, this was a loophole that was so rare, no one thought to plug it. He just went back into the lottery.

Yeah. So he figured chances of his number being called again was quite low. So he briefly said... No, no, he'll be pleased to know that call never did happen he wasn't called up in the end he gleefully sinks into the swinging 60s culture of britain well late 60s early 70s he was a full-on music playing free love having drug-taking hippie loving life and you think of the music back then, Jamie. It's true, yeah. What have we got? What have we got in late 60s, early 70s?

Stones, Doors. Yeah. It's all new stuff. Ed Zeppelin. Yeah. Pink Floyd. Oh, Pink Floyd. Oh, Pink Floyd, when Dark Side come out.

74? Oh, okay. Well, they've not got that yet. Well, first one, Piper's Against the Door, and that's out. Yeah, okay. They got some of the early stuff. So, yeah. I mean, he's a hippie student.

There was no way they're not listening to Pink Floyd whilst smoking spliffs. So that's what they're doing. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So Bill, with little else to do, because it's not like he was actually on the course at the time, so he throws himself into his anti-war activities, organising marches, making banners, that kind of thing.

But mostly, he spent his time trying to sleep with as many women as possible. He told a friend at the time that his trick to attract women was to just shut up. Because if you spent time... Well, apparently, if you just spent time letting the woman talk, they were flattered. Now, whether or not this was the case or not, it certainly seemed to work for Bill, because Bill apparently always had someone on the go, as it were. Now, all in all, Bill was having a good time, but he was troubled, because if he continued along this path, it's not as if his dream of becoming a politician is going to suddenly

materialise. He's having a good time, but I imagine at one point he woke up at half two in the afternoon on a drizzly Oxford day with a hangover, half a spliff hanging out of his mouth, and just went, I don't think I'm on the road to president right now. Something's gone wrong. I reckon he kept his alarm at half five. Oh, do you think he's still doing the five? Yeah, crawled into bed at ten past five. Oh, he kept his alarm at half five. Oh, do you think he's still doing the five?

Crawled into bed at ten past five. I'm going off at half five. What am I doing to myself? Just think how great I will be. Half an hour sleep. Yeah. He starts thinking, I need to do something. Because as it was, what he's done recently is going to damage him in the future.

But hopefully it won't be too bad. He needs to get on the right track soon though. And going to a law school was the right thing to do. That's what he was going to have to go to law school. Just not a military one in Arkansas. Definitely not that. No. So instead what he was going to do was go home and go to Yale. That sounds better, doesn't it? So he writes a letter to the general who was in charge of his placement that he ran away from. Not a favour, sir. Oh, no, no, not asking for a favour,

just explaining himself. Terribly sorry. I couldn't possibly have gone to the war. Like I said, left the oven on. So, no, he goes into his reasonings, how he objected to the war in all good consciousness. He couldn't, et cetera, et cetera. He just wanted to make it seem formal.

It was a conscious decision, not him running away from responsibility. He thought that would be damage limitation in the future. See, he's thinking about this kind of stuff. He also applies to Yale, obviously. His stellar academic record spoke for itself. I mean, he'd already graduated from Georgetown with incredible fine colours, and technically, no, he's not enrolled in Oxford anymore, but he was doing well at Oxford whilst he was there.

This last year can be fudged over, he thinks, and it surely could be, because he was accepted. He spent the time before he had to be back stateside travelling. Now, he'd met many people in Oxford, sons of politicians from all over the place, so he used those connections to go and visit several countries, France, Germany, Spain, and Soviet Russia. Ooh.

Yeah, went and had a nosy around Soviet Russia. I couldn't find anything interesting he did on these trips, which was a shame, but, yeah, he went there. You bet his little journey to Soviet Russia was brought up later in life. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What were you doing there? But he was up later in life. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

What were you doing there? But he was just being a tourist. It's fine. Anyway, once in New Haven, where Yale is, he immediately started again getting into politics. Don't think he's suddenly gone clean-shaven all-American boy again, though. No. Still very much his fairly hippie-ish self. But he's back getting involved in American politics, so that's where he wants to be.

He volunteered, campaigning for various Democratic candidates who were running at the time. So wrapped up he was, in fact, with his volunteering for political issues. The start of his studies was approached in a somewhat cavalier way.

Perhaps he was not used to studying after his gap. Maybe he just lost the love for learning. But he often skipped classes at this point, used other people's notes. At one time, he asked one of the girls in his class if he could borrow her notebook to copy down some notes. And she asked which ones, and he said all of them. Which really reminds me of us at university.

Well, we didn't even take any notes. We didn't need notes. No, we didn't take notes. We didn't ask to copy notes, did we? Yeah. No. Maybe we should have done. Anyway.

Who would then be employed and have jobs? Anyway, he certainly wasn't lazing around. That's not why he was slacking off his studies. He was working on the convention floor for George McGovern, for example, the Democrat currently running against the incumbent, Richard Nixon. So he's, like I say, he's getting involved, trying to get contacts in the political scene. Something that Bill found very frustrating, however,

was the fact that it became clear that his party was in the middle of fracturing. He was a Democrat through and through. His hero was JFK, who was a huge supporter of all the civil rights movements. He wanted progressive America. He wanted things to go forward and have equal rights for different races, different sexes, and all that stuff. That's what he wanted. Unfortunately, that was not the Democratic Party. That was a faction of the Democratic Party, because the Southern Democrat voters were increasingly going to the Republicans, because they felt the party had gone too far into the civil rights movement and their crazy notions of people actually being treated equally. So a bill was frustrated by coming up against people who were supposedly Democrats,

but had beliefs that were completely opposite to his own. These were people who accused the blacks or the feminists or the hippies of ruining their country. And as you can imagine, that really frustrated Bill. Yeah, it frustrates us now yeah but equally the pragmatist in bill realized that well if we simply turn these people out of our party we will lose all of our power base and the republicans will be in charge for a generation so we can't just say well sod off then you bunch of rac. We've got to try and court them into the party. So there was lots of debates about that at the time.

What do we do? He was getting involved in all those kind of debates. It was political conundrums like this that helped him meet the most important person in his life. Because there was another student at Yale at the time called Hillary Rodham. Or Rodham. Rodham. Now, we do not have time to go into Hillary

as much as I obviously want to, which is a shame, because she is the only woman in history to almost have an episode of her own in this podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were so close to being able to have a whole episode dedicated to her. She is a fascinating person to look into.

We just don't have time in this episode. This is Bill Clinton's episode, not Bill and Hillary's episode. That said, obviously, she's a very important person in Bill Clinton's life. So we need to know her a little bit here. So for now, just know, all accounts, her personality was as big as Bill's. She had come from a modest household with a father who was staunchly conservative Republican. So the opposite of what Bill was. Yeah.

She, like Bill, had joined everything when she was growing up. She was a joiner. She was in the Girl Scouts, the sports teams, the school newspaper, the student council, et cetera, et cetera. She was the president of the Young Republicans Club because she was a Republican. Her father was a proud Republican. She was a Republican. She was voted most likely to succeed and then went on, just like Bill, to campaign for various Democrats because, as she had grown up a little bit, she realized actually her political beliefs did not resemble her father's. She could think for herself.

And actually, maybe I'm more of a Democrat than a Republican now I think about it, because I fundamentally disagree with most of what the Republicans say. In her spare time, she tutored impoverished children in Boston's poorest areas, which could not have been easy. Her Republican boyfriend at this time accused her of not being a real Republican, which she went, yeah. Of course not. I'm not. I'm just not a Republican anymore.

So, yeah, she changes her allegiance and comes out as a Democrat instead. When in Yale, Hillary was making an impression. By accounts from classmates and professors, she was not as academically gifted as Bill, but still very, very, very good at it. But she more than made up for this with her attitude and her ambition. Yeah. According to one friend, she was better at communicating her intelligence than Bill was. So she often came across as more intelligent. Bill clearly cared for various causes, very political, threw himself into things, but he also got

distracted, mainly by women. Well, yeah. Yeah. Hilary threw herself into things 100% and never got distracted. Now, Bill was the first to see the other one. Unusually for him, he was too shy to make an introduction. He just stared at her from across the room in the library. Until Hilary, getting fed up of this, stood up, walked over to him and said, and I quote, look, if you're going to keep looking at me, I'm going to keep looking at you and I think we ought to know each other's names.

Which is quite a nice way to meet someone, I suppose. Yes. From then on, apparently the two were inseparable. They studied together, they campaigned together, they presumably did other things together. Not all friends could say why. Bill was warm-hearted and creative, according to one, whereas Hillary was more focused and conventional.

So they had a sort of chalk and cheese kind of thing going on, apparently. But they really worked for each other. One professor would later compare Hillary to a cold shower and Bill to a hot bath, which seems slightly mean to Hillary, but then maybe that's what some of their personalities are at the time. In their last year at Yale, they moved into an apartment together unmarried.

What? I know, the scandal. And it certainly was at the time in certain circles. But obviously, Bill and Hillary, very progressive, forward-looking. They don't care about these kind of labels. So yeah, we're going to live together for a while but it was not the whirlwind romance that all the facts i've just told you might suggest according to friends hillary despite being the more reluctant of the two to begin with was the first to fall in love and fell hard absolutely fell for bill's

charms bill however was more reluctant telling her more than once that he was worried about falling in love with her, didn't really want to do it. We can't, yeah, we can't know for certain, but several accounts have the fact that Bill did not stop sleeping around even when they had moved in together at this point. Okay. Which, based on what happens later, this is almost certainly true. We just don't have any first-hand evidence. But yes, it would appear he definitely was. More proof that at least Bill didn't see this relationship as lasting forever was graduation. Because once they graduated, the two went their separate ways.

They were still in contact with each other. Hillary certainly still saw them as a couple, but they were no longer together geographically. Bill headed back to Arkansas, where he wanted to kickstart his political career. And where best to do that? Where you were born. Born and bred. You know it. Yeah.

So Bill obviously couldn't just jump into politics immediately. He needed to wait for the right race. So what was he going to do to fill the time? How about what do you do when you've got nothing to do? Teaching, he thought. Yeah. I'll become a teacher uh what could he teach uh well law made sense he's just graduated yale yeah yeah okay what's the nearest law school oh yes i should say i mean it's not like a military school. It was a university, but it was attached to the military. But yes, it was that school. It was that university. The very one he had absconded from four years before. Good news, his name had been forgotten. I mean, it was four years ago. No one really cared. It's not like he was a famous person or anything. So fortunately, it was fine. But I like to think he turned up to begin with on the interview. He's like, is anyone going to say anything? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You look really familiar. You're that boy who came for an interview once and never turned up for your bloody job.

Yeah. Anyway, Bill was able to get a job and quickly got to work. Yes, he taught, but mostly he campaigned for his future career in politics. He knew he was teaching the people who would become the prominent citizens in Arkansas. They were studying law, so of course they would. So he made sure he gave them good grades and they all liked him. One colleague of Bill's said, Bill doesn't give Ds and Fs because he might someday need those votes. When he wasn't teaching, he was volunteering to work on the campaign trail of various Democrats

yet again. And of course, he was sleeping with as many of the other volunteers as he possibly could. So promiscuous was Bill that news got back to Hillary, who confronted him about it. He didn't seem too concerned until she retaliated by hinting that perhaps maybe she had slept with someone else recently herself. At that point Bill said, fair enough, I've been doing that as well. Of course, that's sensible. He didn't do that,

Jamie. He didn't. No, of course he didn't. He grew really upset. Tears in his eyes asking Hillary why she would do something like that to him, apparently. Oh, for goodness sake. Yeah. Tears in his eyes asking Hillary why she would do something like that to him, apparently. Oh, for goodness sake. Yeah. Anyway, despite this, it

was not long after that Hillary moves to Arkansas to be with Bill. They've decided they're going to give it a go. This was a huge decision for Hillary, something we would go into much more if we were doing her episode, because she currently was starting A very promising job in Washington DC

She was involved in the Watergate Investigations committee Really? A very low level but yes She was there She had done just as well as Bill at Yale She could take her pick She could go into politics

She could get jobs in law firms And she decides to go to Arkansas, the political wasteland. Why did she do this? To put it bluntly, she wanted to be with Bill. So off she goes. A lot of her friends said things like, why are you doing this? You know he's sleeping around all the time. But, um, nope. She was determined. In fact, she said to one of them, you do know that Bill Clinton is going to be the president of the United States someday. Which some people have used to accuse her of being very cold and calculating

and only deciding to go to Arkansas so she could ride the political coattails of Bill Clinton because she was chasing fame and glory. Now, this is an accusation that arguably you could level against Hillary later on in life. We'll get into that later. But I think it's a bit harsh saying it here. She was in Washington, D.C. making connections. She was doing very well herself. Staying in Washington, D.C. was the sensible choice for her political career, not going to Arkansas. But that's what she does.

Virginia, Bill's mother, did not take to Hillary at all. No. When they first met, Virginia made it very clear that Hillary was not as attractive as some of Bill's other girlfriends. Ooh. Yeah. Now, Virginia, as I hinted, was a bit of a party girl in her time. She was also quite the looker, lots of makeup, really enjoyed being a very womanly woman.

At this time, Hillary was very much big glasses, unkept hair, big coat, just a sort of bit of a hippie, really. Well, she's in the picture. She's in the picture as well. She did not really care for looks and doing makeup. She cared about politics and the work that she did. Yeah. So Virginia and Hilary, not very similar to each other at all.

And Virginia made that clear. A furious Bill took his mother to one side, saying that he was sick of beauty queens and wanted someone he could talk to. Oh. Yeah. That. Yeah. That's maturity. Well, here you see the attraction. What Bill saw in Hillary was an intellectual equal,

someone who could compete with him whilst talking because he found most other people stupid. So, anyway, soon after this, they were engaged and they marry. Hooray. How nice. Aww. Speculation has abound amongst historians about how much this was a political move rather than a romantic one.

There is a theory you often see that Bill needed a wife for campaigning and Hillary was determined to be a power couple with someone, anyone. So according to this theory, they agreed to wed knowing that they were not in love. I don't know. Nothing that you've presented so far would suggest that at this point. No, I agree with that. It sounds to me like Bill is a not a good person who keeps cheating on her,

and she is in love with him, and he is in love with her. And they decide to get married, probably thinking that Bill could change. Yeah. Probably, yeah. We know that Hilary's friends expressed doubt because of her new husband's infidelities.

We know that Hillary knew what Bill got up to, so they went into the marriage with their eyes open to the infidelities. But yeah, I agree with you. It seems to me love is complex and messy. They got married. They thought Bill could change. So let's get married. Much to Virginia's utter horror, Hillary kept her surname.

She was not going to be known as Hillary Clinton, no. She was Hillary Rodham. Rodham. Upon hearing this news, Virginia burst into tears. Much more of a traditionalist was Virginia. Still, Bill has other things to worry about apart from his mother's approval in 1974 he decides to run for congress against the republican incumbent who had won 77 to 33 percent in the next in the last election in other words it was an impossible race to win but he was going to cut his teeth on this race yeah just give it a go this is what it involves yeah now bill thinks this is a great

time to go for it watergate had happened the republicans were taking a hit this is the time to run but like i say there was no way he was going to win this but what he did do was lose in such a way that he was noticed it was exactly what yeah what he wanted well no obviously he wanted to win but realistically it's what he wanted one reporter said he was astonished at Bill's campaigning. Apparently, he witnessed Bill standing in front of a crowd of Republican voters, and by the end of the speech, they were all swearing that they would vote for this 28-year-old Yale graduate. In the end, he only lost by two percentage points.

Yeah, doing far, far better than anyone expected him to. And those in power within the Democrat Party took note. This could be a rising star. The boy's only 28. And Bill didn't waste a day literally. The very next day he was out campaigning, even though he didn't know what race he was campaigning for.

He was out on the streets shaking hands with people, talking about the race. There's a lot of confused people What race? I don't know, just shake his hand and say you'll vote for him He'll go away Well, the race came two years later The Attorney General for Arkansas is what it was going to go for

That's a good thing to go for I mean, it sounds incredibly boring and political It's not exciting, but it's probably a race you could win Yeah, and he was able to defeat the deputy attorney general in the primary and ran unopposed in the main election. Yeah, and he had at last achieved the first rung on the political ladder. Hooray! Hooray!

But this obviously is just the start of his plan. He does not want to be the attorney general at all. This is a stepping stone. So he quits his job at the university at this point, and he starts to think about what the next step is. He starts giving speeches and raising funds, spending little time on his elected job, because who wants to be the Attorney General?

So he was looking forward to making sure he had the money to run for a better office. So he campaigns. He raises money. He does speeches. And whilst he was campaigning around the state and giving speeches, this meant a lot of time away from home. And what do you think that meant? Campaigning totty.

Yes, yes. A lot of sleeping around. In this case, it was 27-year-old Jennifer Flowers. Jennifer Flowers was a young Republican broadcaster. She was interviewing Bill for a local Little Rock station. And Bill had noticed her, shall we say. She was quite the looker, and Bill said to her that he couldn't stop looking at her and demanded her phone number, which he got.

And the two start a relationship. But obviously Bill has to be far more careful than he has been before whilst he was sleeping around, because he is a new man in politics. He has a wife. News of an affair could ruin his career before it starts. So obviously, he's really careful and is really subtle in public. No, Jamie, no, no, he's not. Despite knowing this, much to Jennifer Flowers' amazement, Bill wasn't subtle at all, apparently. Just flirted with her openly. Very, very obvious that he fancied her. One thing was saving Bill

from being caught at this time, and that was just how goddamn misogynistic the 70s was. Yeah, that's true. So he was able to openly flirt, pinch, do things like that. And it was just seen as normal. There's an attractive woman in the room, so of course we couldn't objectify her.

That's just the way it is. Slap of the knee. Yeah. So he gets away with that. But then Jennifer gets pregnant. That is a problem. That is a problem. Bill tells her confidently it's not his.

He and Hillary have not had any children. Hillary's not been pregnant In the last couple of years So there's no way it can be his He's probably infertile So he just tries to brush it off Jennifer goes, no, it's yours I know it's yours And then uses it to try and persuade him to leave Hillary

Something that Bill had definitely said he was going to do But obviously had no intention of doing To him, Jennifer was a mistress and nothing more. But yeah, obviously he didn't say this to Jennifer. The timing's not right, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. I was kicking that can down the road. Yeah.

And also, time wasn't right for the child to be born, so he paid for Jennifer to have an abortion in secret and asked for her to keep it quiet. Oh. Yeah. Jennifer would continue to be one of Bill's mistresses for a decade more. Wow. I mean, people fall for his charms. He's a charming man.

Meanwhile, Bill has hired Richard Morris, a loud, brash New Yorker, as a political consultant. Morris was not a pleasant person to be around, apparently, but he got stuff done. And it was with his help that Bill ran for governor of Arkansas. And at the age of 32, Jamie, 32, he becomes governor of a state. This makes Bill the youngest chief executive in the country. What have we done with our lives?

Nothing. Nothing, Jamie. We've achieved nothing. Have you even visited Arkansas? No. You're not even close to becoming its governor, Jamie. Not, Jamie. We've achieved nothing. Have you even visited Arkansas? No. You're not even close to becoming its governor, Jamie. Not even close. There's no chance you're going to do it before you're at least 50 at this rate.

Oh. Yeah. Anyway, there's little to say about the campaign. Bill won. It's not exciting. He was, as ever, very effective in person campaigning. His biggest weakness, however, was the image of him and Hillary being young, pretentious upstarts. Yeah. Because arguably they were young, pretentious upstarts.

They were certainly young. You can see why people thought they were pretentious. An upstart is someone who is starting up, and they were, so... Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah. However, that said, if someone met him in person, that usually went instantly,

and his charm won them over, and they were likely to consider voting for him regardless of their political affiliations. And that was important. That's what Bill seemed to be able to do. He would have Republicans going, actually, maybe I'll vote for this guy. I like him. I have no idea what his policies are, but I like him. I like the gut of his jib. Still, he sometimes grew frustrated with the electorate in his home state.

He particularly grew frustrated with the seemingly large number of conspiracy nuts in Arkansas at the time. Many that he talked to were convinced that the commies have already invaded the US and were secretly in charge. The moon landing was fake. Or the civil rights movement was destined to destroy the country, or I don't like black people, or that's not conspiracy, that's just racism. But that was certainly going on as well. Birds and robots recording your conversations.

Yeah, exactly. That kind of thing. Lizard people. Yeah, that kind of thing. Apparently, it's what frustrated Bill the most whilst he was campaigning. 9-11 was an inside job. What? I mean, that's suspicious. whilst he was campaigning was... 9-11 was an inside job. What?

You'll see. That's suspicious. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Bill grinned and charmed and bared it and moved on, but, oh, he did not like those conversations because he, as we saw when he was younger being a driver, when people said things like that, he wanted to argue with them and tell them that they were wrong. But he's got better at it. just grins and bears it anyway he starts at this time compiling a system of index

cards so he could use to cross cross-reference people and their political links and personal information so whenever he was at an important event he could quickly look up who was going use his index cards and do things like, ah, this person has this link to this charity, has this political affiliation and has a daughter named Julia whose birthday is in two weeks time. Excellent. I will use that when I go there. It is fully on planned out. That is very calculating. Very calculating. Yeah. So that's what he's doing. So yeah, so it's 1978. He's the youngest governor in the country. It's another step on the road.

However, it's not as big a step as you might think. Governor of a state sounds really good, doesn't it? And it can be. If you're the governor of Florida, if you're the governor of California, if you're the governor of one of many states that are really big hitters. Arkansas, I don't want to be mean to arkansas i don't know much about arkansas i'll be honest no i'm not even quite sure where it is you are not going to become its governor with that attitude jane is it like between texas

and like arizona is this where near that like in the middle near the bottom kind of thing we're talking sort of near near louisiana near texas but not right at the bottom that kind of i mean what we're both admitting here we have we both have oh yeah yeah i could i could point roughly where it is i did know where all the states were at one point when we first started this podcast i drew a map of where all the presidents were born and i got ingrained into my head and i could have told you where all the states were but it's just gone i can point roughly where it is now. I'm going to find it. It is in between Mississippi.

Oh, yeah, so near Louisiana. Yeah, yeah, so where I said. It's just hard to say exactly without the map. Yeah, it's not where I said. Oh, is it not? Yeah, it's on the very corner of Texas. Yeah. Just above, directly above Louisiana.

Yeah. Yeah, I've got it. See, it makes sense she went down to New Orleans. Yeah, it's not very, it's just like a hop, skip away. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, where were we before we got distracted? Oh, yes, I was about to say that Arkansas, although I'm assuming it's a lovely place,

it's not a big hitter in terms of states. Certainly not back then. It was near the bottom of pretty much every list to do with things like income, lifespan, education, happiness, the point of life. So, yeah, it just wasn't doing great. Still. That'll change your way, governors.

Just you, Jamie. Yeah, that'll change. Yeah, yeah. Best day in the US. I'll help you campaign. Yes. Let's declare you running on this podcast. Yeah, let's do it now.

Yeah, okay. Don't know when the next race is. I don't know if there is a law that you have to be a natural-born citizen like there is for the president. Guessing not because... Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yeah, but it's different states, so you might have a different law. But let's just assume it doesn't.

Different states have different laws. Crazy, isn't it? But yeah, let's just assume that that's fine. Right, you're running for governor. Arkansas, 2025, let's guess, the election is. Yeah, it's going to happen. Anyway, back then, Bill, he's governor, your predecessor, your future predecessor. He is determined to make the most of it.

His inauguration was seen to many as a coming of age for the generation. This young man is now the future. This is time for Arkansas to show the country what it's made of. And from the crowd of friends that he had made whilst campaigning, an informal group was created. FOB. F-O-B. Friends of Bill. Friends of Bill were people in business, journalists, academia. People who saw that hitching their wagon to this rising star was a good idea. And helping him every step of the way would just benefit them so they did however despite all this everything starts to go wrong

almost immediately unlike when you're governor this this won't happen don't worry no learn from this bill was determined to make a difference and he was going to shake things up and get arkansas out of being on all of those bottom of the list things that were happening. So he proposed a huge number of sweeping reforms to the state. Far too many. Oh. Over 70, 70 major proposals immediately. Unfortunately for Bill, a simple majority in the Senate state could veto any of his proposals.

And the Senate was not a body that wanted to see change because it was full of old men who don't like change. Yeah, change is scary, Rob. Change is scary. The public, when polled, were mostly in favour of these reforms. They were pretty much liked and seen as needed. But almost all of them went nowhere and some of them backfired massively.

The roads were a mess. They needed to sort the roads out. The infrastructure was falling apart. So Bill says he's going to fix the roads. How's he going to pay for fixing the roads? Sweet talk, people. Unfortunately not. He might have done better there.

No, he thought a small hike in car registration fees would do the trick. Oh, everyone loves to pay more for their cars. Yeah, exactly. And gas. Yeah. uh i mean straight away you've picked up on the fact that people aren't going to like that because obviously people don't like paying money but the funds have to be raised from somewhere so let's try this but the way the fees were introduced wasn't just absolutely appalling they were not announced for a start so it seemed like they were snuck in.

And it meant that it took people unaware. One example that really stuck was the example of a man going to renew their license, something that you had to do every year at the time. And if you went there with a truck and a trailer, you had to get a license for both. And you would go into that building expecting to pay $35, only to be told that you owed $100 that's not a massive hike that's not a small hike no yeah now because you had like a truck and a trailer and various other things that was using the example it meant that that was an extreme case but always stuck because that is a big hike uh the public were furious it did not help that because the licenses were rolling throughout the year it's not like one day everyone paid.

It was whenever yours was up. It meant that this was a constant stream of people going to renew their licenses and being outraged at bloody Bill Clinton ripping us off. It did not help that President Carter, who's now in the White House, was not doing well either. And Bill Clinton had really hung his hopes on Carter. He had campaigned for him. He was very visible in the Carter campaign. So him doing poorly meant that people looked at Bill as well. The Democrats, like I say, taking a lot of hits.

And at this time, the governor's term in Arkansas was only two years. And Bill was soundly defeated a year after he was elected in. Sorry, two years after he was elected in, achieving very little. He said at the time that he had gone from being the youngest governor in the nation to being the youngest ex-governor. But hey! One good thing had recently happened. Hillary had given birth to a daughter,

Chelsea. So there we go. And Bill and Hillary were very happy. They got a little girl. That's nice. Bill's mistress, Jennifer, she was not so happy. She was currently being kept out of state, so she didn't get in the way living in Dallas, and she was

devastated, still believing that Bill was just waiting for the right time to leave his wife. And then she suddenly sees in the papers that Bill and Hillary have just had a child. So perhaps at this point she starts to resent how she was being treated. Bill is no longer governor.

Chelsea was born just before he lost the election. Sorry, I got the order slightly wrong there in my notes. But yeah, Bill takes it very badly when he loses the election. There was one report of him having a full-on temper tantrum, like falling to the floor, kicking and wailing kind of thing. Wow. Yeah, takes it very badly. He then sinks into a huge depression.

He and Hillary start arguing a lot. Their relationship hits rock bottom. Bill shouting up top of his voice that he wants a divorce in front of friends. Him phoning Jennifer at all hours so he could complain about how awful his wife was, which I'm sure she enjoyed. Yeah. Hilary lying next to her in the bed. Yeah.

Hilary was concerned for her husband. It's like he's going through a rough time at the moment, but he's also being an arse. What I should do is get him back into politics. I should get him back on the horse. He's happy when he's doing that. He's not happy wallowing. But she wasn't getting through to him.

His friends told him he just needed to get over it. But he still wouldn't. He felt betrayed by the people of the States because he had done nothing wrong. Getting frustrated, eventually one friend said, the reason you have lost, Bill, is because you're arrogant. You're an arrogant man. So you've got to stop being so arrogant. And also, your wife has to change her surname.

It's raised too many questions. No one thinks you're a real couple. No one wants this progressive, women-have-their-own-ability-to-name-themself stuff. No, you need to show the world that your wife is your wife. Both bits of advice were then repeated by the paid advisor, Dick Morris. Yeah, absolutely, you are too arrogant, and yes, Hillary needs to change her surname. And also, you need to apologise for the car fees, publicly. Well, Bill was furious at this. I'm going to quote,

How was I going to improve roads without getting money from some place? He shouted back. At that, a very frustrated Hillary shouted to Bill, Wake up! The people believed it was wrong. It doesn't matter what's really right or wrong. If the people believe it's wrong, you've got to apologise. That's politics. Eventually, after a big slump, Bill comes out of it and he decides he's going to fight back. No other governor has ever been re-elected

after losing office in Arkansas. So he was just going to have to be the first person to do it. So, first things first, Hillary changes her name. She is now Hillary Clinton. It's going to be easier to campaign. They both decide. Secondly, Bill gets a haircut. He's still looking far too hippie-ish. Time to look much more like a politician. But, one thing where they stuck, Bill still refused to apologise. He would release an ad that would go on

TV acknowledging that the car licence fee fiasco was a mistake, but he was not going to apologise for it, he would just acknowledge it was a mistake. They frustrated Morris, agreed, fine, just do that, you've got to do something. However, when it came to the day of the film, Clinton went off script and said, I quote, it was a mistake because so many of you were hurt by it. When I was a boy growing up, my daddy never had to whip me twice for the same thing. And now I hope you will give me another chance to serve as governor

because our state has many problems. So he didn't apologise, but he suddenly went into a very folksy kind of home, kind of this is the thing that happened to me. And when you know his background, it also makes you go, ooh. Yeah. Because his dad did whip him twice for the same thing.

Yeah. He's just making this up. But it sounds good on TV. It does. Yeah. And he's saying, please forgive me. I've learned my lesson. Yeah.

Yeah. Bo Clinton. Yeah. So anyway, the electoral race begins. There's one awkward moment when Bill was on stage several times with the Democrat running for Congress at the time. So they're campaigning at the same time. Makes sense. This was Joe McDougal. This was a man who was almost certain Bill was sleeping with his wife because Bill was sleeping with his wife.

Yeah. Yeah. Knowing that bringing it up would just lead to accusations of hypocrisy, because Jim McDougall was also cheating on his wife, and everyone knew it. With Hillary? Not with Hillary, no. Yeah, so he swallowed his pride and just endorsed Bill for governor, but just nice to know what everyone was up to at the time. Yeah.

Anyway, the campaign hots up, and Hillary, with her new surname and makeover, she starts doing her hair at this point and wearing fashionable clothes. She's taking this seriously. She moves up her role. She's sort of stayed in the background so far. From this campaign onwards, it's going to be Bill and Hillary. The two of them are going to be campaigning together. It was the Clintons running for governor.

Now, obviously, Bill Clinton would be the governor, but it was the Clintons. Hillary went out of her way to befriend a prominent political columnist who most people could not stand. Apparently, he was obnoxious. But Hillary went out of her way to befriend him, and it worked. Suddenly, that column was much more positive to the Clintons. And also, in a brilliant move, she challenged the sitting governor to a debate. The governor, by this point, had already refused to debate Bill.

It's a waste of my time. I'm going to win the next one. People thought that was fine. Who's going to vote for Bill to come back? Everyone hated him. But refusing to debate a woman in the misogynistic times of the 70s was seen as weak. Yeah.

I mean, this was a great move by Hillary because she knew she could take him in a debate because she knew she could take him in a debate. He knew she could take him in a debate. So he didn't want to say yes. He couldn't debate the wife and not the husband. And if he refused, he looked weak. I mean, there was just no way for him to win that. Good little trap.

Yeah, it was a great trap. It worked perfectly. He was seen as weak. But then Hillary turns the screw by publicly announcing that the governor would lose a debate against their daughter chelsea as well oh yeah nice anyway the campaign was so good they won in a landslide so he is back to being governor and this time he is determined to learn from last time he recruits more seasoned advisors this time he slows down his plans for reform. He's going to take it seriously. So what do we tackle first? And let's focus on that and that alone. Education is where they're going to go first.

Hillary headed a commission that recommended a series of reforms. The biggest problem, according to the commission, was the quality of the teachers. Teachers weren't good enough. Yeah, I can relate to that. I mean, look who they let in, Jamie. I know, it's disgusting.

It was suggested that all teachers sit a test to see if they had enough subject knowledge to teach. Crazy. Yeah, a move that infuriated teachers, but delighted pretty much anyone who had ever once had a teacher who they hated and suspected perhaps did not have enough subject knowledge. Which I've certainly been on both ends of this. I've had teachers before where I've gone,

well, you clearly don't know this subject. Especially history teachers. But also, I am a teacher and I know how I'd react if someone said, you now need to take a test and if you fail it, you lose your job. That would annoy me somewhat. It would annoy me as well. Yeah. Anyway, the National Education Association accused Clinton

of making scapegoats of them, of all the teachers, pointing out, no, it's not the teachers aren't good enough. You do not fund your schools. They are running on a shoestring, a bootstring, a bootstrap. A shoestring. Yeah, a shoestring. Yeah, a shoestring. Yeah. Not sure a shoestring. Yeah, a shoestring. Yeah, not sure where my brain went there.

Yeah, you need to fund us. If you fund us, we'll be able to educate the children. You're just blaming it on poor teachers. This was countered by stories being rolled out by the Clinton administration, such as teachers teaching about World War XI, because the teacher didn't know how to read Roman numerals. Oh, that's brilliant. Now, I refuse to believe that is true.

I'm not saying that there are poor teachers out there, but I refuse to believe any teacher thinks World War XI happened, especially when this was in 1970. World War II had only just happened. I bet somewhere that has happened. No, I just assume that this is political spin and it was made up i just can't no i'm willing to believe that a history teacher thinks that the chancellor of germany was like the chancellor in this country and not the equivalent of the prime minister because that's what my history teacher tried to tell me once things

like that fine yeah this same teacher thought the berlin wall went all the way through germany which is called the berlin wall well a lot of people grow up thinking the berlin wall going all the way through germany i know i did until i was about a teenager and then i learned otherwise when you were teaching yeah no yeah no so like i say i'm willing to believe that there are some bad teachers out there but world war 11 seriously in in the 70s no no all right anyway i like to think it's true anyway things get very bitter in this name clinton becomes a curse word in education like the word gov is now i can only assume yeah anyway the tests do go out and, to be fair to the Clinton administration, once it was all done, there was an increase in funding. Not as much as perhaps there should have been, but there was an increase in funding. Meanwhile, the very same thing that was saving Reagan on the national scene was helping Clinton's reputation. Oh, sorry, we're in the 80s. Still, still close to World War T. still close to world war ii uh yeah so it's helping clinton's reputation as well because because we're in the 80s and the economy suddenly is booming and compared to his first go at being

governor things were going incredibly well the booming economy he was able to take credit for whereas when things were failing he was able to say things like yeah but we are arkansas look where we started we're going in the right direction yeah it's yeah we're doing the best we can uh and that worked a lot of people agreed as the political good times continued bill continues with his affairs of course he does jennifer is still around at this time but he had affairs with at least three other women that we know about almost certainly a lot more if not, then it would appear that by this point, Hilary and Bill have agreed that this marriage was so important to their careers

that they were not going to divorce no matter what. Doesn't matter anymore that Bill constantly is sleeping around. This now appears to have become a marriage of convenience. Now, whether there is any love left or not is pure speculation and we don't know, but definitely appears that it's a decision by this point. However, rumours swirl around about his womanising, so much that in 1988, when there was discussion of him running for president, which would have been very early, one of his closest advisors, Betsyight confronted bill with a list essentially saying look bill i know you've been talking about running for president but before you do we need to get

something sorted here is a list of women and i'll quote her now i want you to tell me the truth about every single one they went through the list one by one and bill guessed how likely it was that each woman would sell their story to the press wow yeah he ranked them well bill said things along the lines of there's no way she would talk there's no way she'll tell anyone whereas betsy kept saying things like you do you know this woman anymore do you know what financial situation they're in do you know whether they like you or not anymore bill had no answers for most of these and just a vague memory of this woman anymore? Do you know what financial situation they're in? Do you know whether they like you or not anymore? Bill had no answers for most of these and just a vague memory of this woman that he'd had an affair with for a few months and would say things like, but she was really nice. And Betsy would say, but you don't know, she won't go to the press. So eventually

at the end, Betsy Wright simply says, stay out of the right race. There is no way you can be president. No. Your history is just too checkered. So Bill decides not to run. He was involved in the campaign, however. As the young rock star governor of Arkansas, the Democratic nominee had asked Clinton to give a speech at the convention. This is Dukakis, by the way, if you remember him.

This speech was awful, absolutely awful. Why? Really, really bad. Okay, so to be fair, it wasn't his speech. The Dukakis team had given him a speech, and it was too long to fit in the time slot. It was boring, and also, for technical reasons, When he went on stage They forgot to dim the lights in the auditorium So all the lights are up He's on stage delivering a very boring speech That went on, I think it was meant to be

15 minutes long He went on for nearly half an hour It was so bad that when he got to the And in conclusion part Cheers went up in the audience And there was a big round of applause. That's quite funny. It was so bad that on Johnny Carson's The Tonight Show,

he then made a joke about Bill Clinton being approved as an over-the-counter sleeping gate. So Bill Clinton hits national TV as being the most boring person in the country. Now that is not good. However, as we have seen before, Bill is not one to just go, well, oh dear, this isn't going to work then, and he turns this around. He contacts his friends of Bill's circle.

A lot of them work in the media. And strings are pulled, and sure enough, before long, they are able to phone johnny carson's tonight show can bill come on your show tomorrow the answer was uh no no bill carson has never had a politician on this show politicians don't go on the late show it's entertainment he's not going to suddenly break that it would show favoritism to a party no we don't do politicians uh sorry okay so phone call ends a bit later the johnny carson tonight show gets another phone call how about bill comes on your show not as a politician but as a musician oh genius yeah he's not a politician he's just a sexyassy sax man who happens to be in politics.

Now, by this time, the Tonight Show is interesting. It's like, well, actually, this does sound quite interesting. I know we don't usually do politicians. In fact, we've never done it before. But, okay, well, let's give it a go. So, the next night, Bill appears on the show. Now, I watched the whole clip. I was interested in this.

Oh, it is fascinating watching it it really is uh you really see the charisma that people talk about i need to watch it now yeah well he performs incredibly well uh he comes in he explains why the speech was bad whilst at the same time joking and appearing at ease yeah when asked whether he was going to run for higher office at any point, he replied with a grin, it depends on how well I do on the show tonight, which the audience loved.

He made several jokes about him being boring. I mean, this was, it was going to be hard because when he first sits down, Carson just opens with, how are you? And then puts a massive sand timer on the desk. So it could have gone really bad for Bill, but Bill rolls with it. And you can tell the audience to begin with thought they were going to be able to laugh at the politician. By the end, he had them eating out of his hand. And that was even before he then stood up and played an amazing sax solo.

before he then stood up and played an amazing sax solo. Editing Rob here. Jamie ended up watching this video afterwards and said it was fascinating, and it made me think maybe I should put a little clip of it in the episode here. Here you go. I apologise for the sound quality. It's the best I could find. I'm going to play a little bit of the interview and just a snippet of his saxy sax playing. Over to Bill. What happened there? I watched the speech, and as a performer, I kind of felt for you in a way.

What happened? What was it? Well, it was a good idea that didn't work, what can I tell you? You know, everybody, at least at home, knows I can give a speech. Now everybody knows I can blow one. Yeah, but you were known as somebody who was going to electrify the crowd, and it was supposed to go, what, 15 minutes or something? Well, yeah, 20 minutes set aside for it. It lasted about 32.

Yeah. What? We had a lot of crowd response, you know. Yeah, I noticed. It just didn't work. I mean, what can uh... We had a lot of crowd response, you know. Yeah, I noticed. It just didn't work. I mean, I don't know, what can I tell you? I really, my sole goal was achieved, however. I wanted so badly to make Michael Dukakis look great, and I succeeded P.M.O. Well, this is...

He called me a few minutes ago, and he said he thought the speech was great, everything was forgiven, and would I please nominate Bush in New Orleans next time? I mean, he's happy I'm back. We asked the governor, I don't want you to think this is kind of a surprise that we've got a sandbag in here, and you said, yeah, you might, and you talked with Doc, and I understand maybe you might do a little something for us. tenor sax you play right we're gonna play a short song Thank you. And at that point, everyone's like, oh, sexy sax man with the charisma.

Yeah, when he was asked whether he would play a song on his sax, he replied, I'm going to play a short song. And everyone found it hilarious because obviously, oh, at least it's not going to be long. It was that kind of thing. You had to be there for it to seem funny, but it was working. He completely turned around the disaster. If anything, the whole thing ended up as a net positive. His name was now on the national stage,

and he was young and hip, and he was a sexy sax man. Anyway, shortly after this, Dukakis fails, as we saw in this episode. But for Bill, if he wasn't the rising star before, he certainly is now. He was soon offered a job of the Democratic Leadership Council chairman. Now, the DLC was set up in 84 by conservative Democrats.

Yes, still haven't got quite to the modern age, although you could argue that a lot of Democrats are still fairly conservative, but the Democratic Party still is fractured. And most of these conservative Democrats are from the South, just like Bill Clinton. And they feared these conservative Democrats are from the South, just like Bill Clinton. And they feared that the Democrats are going to be wiped out unless they got a significant portion of the white vote back that was being lost to Reagan's Republicans. So this faction was spurned by the left of the party, who feared that they were trying to turn the Democrats into another Reagan party. Yeah.

So the DLC turned to Clinton as he was Southern, but popular with women and the black population. He was a new face. He could convince people that their faction was not Republican light or a Southern white man's club, which it pretty much was, but they didn't want to appear that way. Clinton accepted. This is going to increase his backing significantly

this will give him better ties it's a step up so he he goes for it he then went into campaign mode once more touring and giving speeches and his speeches now were mostly from memory to make sure he never repeated that boring speech that he did so he just had bullet notes. And that worked much better for him. He was able to speak like that much better. Soon after this, he announced that he was running for president. Now, as covered last time, it seemed very unlikely he could win. Remember, Bush was popular because of the war. Bush was riding a high.

There's no way Clinton's going to win. But also, as covered in Bush's episode, that was papering over the cracks. Oh, yeah. Because the country seemed ready for change. The economy was no longer doing anywhere near as well. People were fed up with the Republicans. And here is a young man that some claimed was made in JFK's image.

Certainly with the womanising. He seemed like the future. But obviously, the past was going to get in the way. Kill all his ex-girlfriends well to begin with his affair with jennifer flowers comes out jennifer fed up with the awful way she had been treated was determined to let everyone know all the details and she had plenty of details including tapes of phone conversations. Oh, yes. Yes. Were they ever released? Some bits were discussed.

I can tell you that a nickname for... For what, Rob? For Bill Clinton's... In fact, I'll tell you the nickname, and you can probably guess what I'm referring to. They were called The Boys. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. There we go yeah so we had two of these things yeah i've got six all right okay i could still be the boys yeah that's true just just more of a party gang so when you're running for arkansas governor uh jamie and the gang. Yeah. Anyway, where was I? That's not in my notes what we're talking about, surprisingly. Yes, no, we are talking about, yes, Jennifer Flowers. She has let everyone know what's happened. But again, the Clintons turn it around.

Going on TV worked so well last time. Let's try it again. They managed to get an interview on the highly popular 60 minutes and not just bill clinton but hillary as well two of them sit down to have an interview and frankly talk about the accusations of infidelity and again i watched this and this time i watched it going, ooh, you liars. That's not true. Ooh, Batman. Oh, yes.

On air, Bill described his relationship with Jennifer Flowers as friendly but limited, as Hillary sat by his side looking concerned for her husband. They both managed to come across as concerned for Jennifer. Poor Jennifer. She seems lovely, but she's clearly being manipulated by a paying press. Yeah. All in all, they both lie through their teeth. But, unless

you know they're lying, they come across as caring and likeable. It was very cleverly done. Bill comes off as someone who may have had an affair once, because he's not saying I've never had an affair. And Hillary, obviously, is not saying he's not had an affair. It's very obvious he's had an affair.

But the way it's being done, it comes across as if he may have had an affair once, a long time ago, the two of them have forgiven each other, and their marriage is now stronger all for it. And in this case,ennifer flowers is lying that's got nothing to do with it but we can't say he's always been faithful because there was what this one unfortunate time in the past but it's all over now when you actually know what was going on which was he was sleeping with everyone under the sun and hillary knew about it wow yeah once more they come out of a scandal looking better than ever their approval rating actually goes up after this because of the charisma i can only

assume like i said in his episode bush must have been sitting there fuming he assumed this was going to bring clinton down yeah and no suddenly he is better than ever. The other hiccup was when rumours of his drug use came to the fore. This is the whole, I didn't inhale line, where he says he didn't inhale. I can only assume no one believed it, because why would anyone believe it? But he was able to say, I didn't inhale, go on another late night show with his saxophone yet again, make a joke about how he was not going to inhale whilst playing his sax, do a cool sax solo, and everyone went, ha, what a guy. So the scandal just slipped off him once more.

He's a slippery, oily guy, isn't he? He is. He's Slick Willy. Yeah. Is what he was known as by his friends. Yeah, the scandals just did not seem to get him. The draft thing, him avoiding the draft, they couldn't make it stick, his opponents. That didn't work.

And to be honest, he was going to struggle to lose because, as we saw, the country was fed up of the Republicans by this point and Bush. Bush was never going to win. Nothing stuck to him so in the end bill clinton wins with 370 of the electoral college votes to 168 and he becomes the 42nd president of the united states wow he has potential to do a lot of good but he's got a few skeletons in his closet and a few behavior problems that might come to haunt him.

It might do. So there you go. That is Bill Clinton up until his presidency. Any surprises there? How academic he was, I had no idea. That's exactly what I was going to say. It's just not something I ever thought of. No.

I knew Hillary was very academic. I'm not sure why I know that, but I do. It must have come up at some point. I think during a campaign in 2016, she just came across very eloquent and knowledgeable. Maybe, and I knew she went to Yale and stuff. I suppose I probably could have guessed that Bill Clinton did. But also his background.

I didn't realise that he just came from a poor, normal background. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I was surprised. I also was surprised at just how much of a womaniser he was. Obviously, it's going to come into play in the next episode, because spoilers, it does.

But I had no idea just how bad he was in that respect. No. So, yeah. Very interesting, though. Thank you. How do you think it's going to be as a president? I see, because by the end of the 90s, the world was going through a bit of an economic boost, wasn't it? It certainly was. It's pre-9-11.

It certainly is. So I think, in that sense, and I know he gets two terms, so he's off doing something well. There's the scandal. Mm-hmm. But I don't know how effective he is going to be as a president. I don't know. Well, we will find out next time. As you may have guessed, listener,

we probably are going to only do two episodes on Bill Clinton, which surprises me. I got to a certain point in my notes and then realised, hang on, I think I can actually fit this into two episodes. I assumed it was going to be three since we gave George Bush three episodes. But the way the notes were flowing, it's like, oh, okay. But who knows? Maybe I'll get to his presidency and realise it needs

two episodes. But we will find out. Yeah. And that is for next time. So all we need to do is do our usual thank yous. So thank you very much for listening to us. Thank you to all our listeners who have been contacting us about our Roman Emperor series, which has now finished. which is very exciting.

Oh, it's all over, all over. So it's just the Americans left, just the Americans, which is nice. Wipe out the Romans, we can wipe out the USA. But we should probably say what we said on the Roman series, just in case all you do is listen here, is that we have plans for the future. And our next series After the Americans Don't worry we'll finish this one first

We're going to do a smaller series Before our next big one On what is it Jamie? Yar! Pirates! Pirates, oh yes Totalus ranking pirates Is going to be coming

But not until we've got through The rest of Clinton Bush And Obama And Trump So Yeah, so not until then you've got through the rest of Clinton, Bush, and Obama, and Trump. So, yeah, so not until then. And I've still not decided what we're going to do with Biden. Half his life?

Yeah, we'll see. We could do the first half of the episode, I guess. We could, exactly. We'll figure that out at the time. Anyway, right, so that's all the messages, unless there was anything you wanted to add. Nope. No, cool.

Right, in that case, thank you very much then, and goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Clinton, on the show tonight. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here and see the lovely, fine audience and all the women in the second row. Hello, how you doing? Yes, well, quite. Anyway, we've invited you to be on because, well, to be honest, I think the public want answers, Mr. Clinton.

Well, of course, and I'm here to give as many answers and be as open as possible. I'm here for you, the people, and certainly for you lovely ladies on row two. Well, yes. No, it says here that you did everything you could to avoid the draft and going and fighting for our country in Vietnam.

Well, that is partly true. I mean, I'm completely anti-war. Why should I support something that kills good, honest American citizens? Citizens want to protect our country in a war that we should not be a part of. It's to save their lives. That is why I did not take part in it. I did not take part in it. Yes, indeed. Okay, well, what about the accusations of the drug use, Mr. Clinton? Apparently you have spoken the marijuana on several occasions. Well, I know those allegations are out about me smoking the marijuana,

injecting a few vials of heroin, and snorting copious lines of cocaine of lots of women that were quite scantily clad hello there row two

but I can say in each case I did not inhale I did not breathe it in and when I took the cocaine I did not inhale it stuck to the

inside of my nose so there was no effect there hey ladies and when I stuck the three cinders into my left arm, I missed every single vein. I was not affected. I'm not that kind of guy. Okay, well, you seem to have answered that, and the crowd seem somewhat responsive to that.

Well, I'll move on then. The infidelity, Mr. Clinton. Several women have said that you have had decade-long affairs with them behind your wife's back. Only several? Oh, well, that number could be as few as five, I guess. Well, my clear answer to that is quite simply... Quite simply... That was beautiful playing, Mr. Clinton, but was that your full answer? Well, of course not, because I can also add... OK, well, again, the audience seemed very satisfied with that answer, bizarrely, so I will move on. Last one, it says here that you have eaten a baby. That's

right, you killed and ate a baby, Mr. Clinton, in front of witnesses. Anything you'd like to say about that? Well, here's my response to you, and you, and all of you lovely folk, and of course you, Mr. Carson. My response is quite simply. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm