American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 43.3 George W Bush

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

We come to the last episode of Dubya. A lot happened during his presidency but will he step up to the plate? Will he seize the moment? Will he, when it comes down to it, do a good job? Will he &*%@

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, George W. Bush. Heart free. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 43.3. It's the last part of W Bush. W. Yeah, here we are on the last stage of the Bush presidency. Are you looking forward to seeing how it ends, Jamie? Uh, yes yes it should be intriguing yes let's do an introduction yeah let's do it um let's just start with a pale blue

almost like a sky oh well it is a sky jamie it's a pale blue sky thank me later you just see a bird flying nice and relaxed all calm just just flapping flapping its its wings yeah and then pow it's hit by a jet engine and then zoom after that engine because that engine is attached to a plane and that plane is being flown by none other than the president of the united states jamie that's right president bush is flying a fighter jet pilot thing. No, plane. That's what it's called. And oh, and it slams down onto the tarmac of an air carrier and everyone cheers and all the music plays and Val Kilmer's there and oh, it's absolutely amazing. Mission accomplished, says everyone in unison.

And Bush steps out of his plane in his fatigues and the words Bush part three comes up on the screen and everyone's happy. Everyone eats their popcorn. Yay. There you go. Would he have been allowed to fly a jet plane? We'll find out, Jeremy. Oh, but what's this?

Before it cuts into the film, you think that's the titles but no because it turns out that that big mission accomplished sign in the background has got a problem and it just falls to the ground it's a big heavy banner and it crushes everyone and people start screaming and everyone's very upset and it bursts into flame. Yeah, and then the whole aircraft carrier just blows up. And someone's just weeping, weeping. The mission was accomplished. And then there you go. That's the actual start of today's episode.

Yeah, I'm assuming you know the event to which I'm referring to there. It's where he said mission accomplished, it quite just despite all the evidence yes but we will get into it shall we yeah we will yes because we left last time with the so-called victory in afghanistan and the world obviously was one step closer to peace due to the victory in the war on terror do you feel secure i certainly certainly do now. 22 years later, I feel very secure. Good. So what next for the Bush administration? Drugs. No, no, it's not drugs. They've got to carry on with the war on terror. Drugs used to be a big thing. It's all about terror now, Jamie. That's true, yeah. It's more in vogue. Yeah, there's no money in drugs anymore. So it's fairly obvious a large

faction of the White House, including the president, had decided that Iraq had to be invaded. But why, sir? Well, shut up, Samuel. Iraq was the obvious choice. I mean, OK, it had nothing to do with 9-11, but it was one of the three countries that made up the axis of evil. I remember that. After all. Yes.

How can anyone oppose bringing down a third of the axis of evil? Whoa. So what is the axis of evil, you might be wondering? Is it Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan? No, no, no. It's Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Oh, no. It's Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Oh, of course. Well, well done.

You got two out of three. Yeah. Like Bush. No, I mean, there was no, like, evidence or anything to suggest that these countries were in any way working together to form some kind of axis. But just look at them, said the Bush administration, pointing dramatically at a map. In his State of the Union address in 2002, Bush announced that America would be targeting these countries

as they were seeking to obtain weapons of mass destruction, or as they commonly became known, WMDs. WMDs. That's a mighty fine WMD you got there. Well, thanks, Chad. Well, European leaders, seeing which way the wind was blowing by at this point, quickly denounced this speech.

Oh, here we go. But Bush did not care. No. Although, massive bonus from it, although it is horrific for tens of thousands of people and shakes geopolitics the next probably for our lifetimes a great film came out because of it which is really good so it's all good then yeah it's all okay which which film is this team america world police yes very good point okay so

uh the only real question here is which of these countries in the axis of evil do they go after first well they said sitting around their table with a big big map of iraq on the wall well uh not north korea obviously too far away i mean they're very far away and they could also devastate south korea in a blink of an eye if we declared war on them. South Korea's got many commercial ties to the United States. We were over there not that long ago. Didn't end too well. Let's put Korea on the back burner, shall we? What else? What are the other two in the axis of evil? Iran? Iran were quite powerful. You know, like, actually powerful enough to put up a fight. And also, they've got lots of strong economic links to Europe. And Europe, our allies, will upset our allies. Hmm, they sat around thinking.

Let me think. What was the name of that third country again? What's that, Iraq, you say? The one still weakened from the war the president's father had waged against it? The one with the massive stockpiles of natural resources that the vice president happens to already have a detailed map of all the oil fields on the off chances they became, I don't know, available anytime soon? That Iraq?

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So, in all seriousness here, trying not to be facetious, but it's tricky. Why Iraq, Jamie? Why Iraq? I think there were a lot of issues that we need to consider. We have to consider that Saddam Hussein was in charge.

He was exterminating the Shiite Muslims. He was trying to... A lot of humanitarian crises as well. And that's really important. I'm sure that was considered. And you've also got to remember the oil. Lots and lots and lots of oil. Well, I mean, yes and no.

I mean, yes, he was an awful dictator. He was, you're absolutely right, persecuting the Shia population. But that is not the reason why President Bush wanted to go into Iraq. Oil. You can drink it by the gallon. Well, the main reason given to the public, Jamie, is the one that Bush almost certainly believed himself.

Really? Oh, wow. Yes. And that is that Saddam Hussein had, or would soon have, WMDs. Do you think like somebody at the, I don't know, intelligence agency came up with like a little pink post-it note that said Iraq has WMDs on it and said, look, here's the proof. Here's the proof. Oh, you've read the history books, Jamie. I see. All right. Okay. And Bush is like, oh, congratulations on your new investment in that oil company. That's fantastic.

Oh, thank you, sir. Remember, Iraq, they've got WMDs. Well, it wasn't pulled out of nothing, the whole WMD thing. There was credible evidence in the intelligence community that suggested that they potentially did have WMDs. However, credible evidence that something could be true is not the same as it being true, as we will get into. However, it seems likely that other factors were involved as well. Bush hated Saddam on a personal level. The CIA had, in 1993, uncovered a plot to assassinate Daddy Bush that had come directly from Saddam Hussein.

Apparently, this really stuck with Dubya. Like, he tried to kill my daddy. How dare he? I'm still searching for his approval. That's exactly the note I made in my notes. It was the next line I was going to say. I mean, if someone kills his dad how on earth is he going to be able to exercise all those daddy issues yeah that's true no so i can't do that um

okay but perhaps the most likely reason for the push by the invader act faction even more so than making money through oil which as you have alluded to was definitely going to play a part. I would argue I didn't allude to anything. Well, the main reason was to maintain military supremacy in the region. The Hawk faction, behind Chaney, argued, behind closed doors at the time, that it was only a matter of time before one of these countries in the Middle East builds a nuke. So if we stamp down hard on one of them to set an example, the others were more likely to toe the line in the future. Um, yeah. Yeah.

The Hawk faction wanted a Middle East that feared the might of the United States forces. But sir, can we not just work in cooperation and support them financially and work in that way? Shut up, Samuel. Get out. Get out. Lock the door. Burning democracy. So, so what if they're not a threat right now?

They could be. They could be. Or a country like them in the future might be. So let's just throw our weight around a bit so no one forgets who's boss. Yeah, we're looking at you, Greenland. Well, I mean, this, I mean, it's hugely simplifying it, a bit so no one forgets who's boss yeah we're looking at you greenland well i mean this i mean it's hugely simplifying it but this is essentially the uh the worry of the the hawk faction we don't

appear strong enough at the moment now in fact it had been in november of 2001 only two months after 9-11 that bush had asked for plans to invade Iraq to be drawn up. The whole Afghanistan thing had got in the way, but now they were ready. And in June 2002, he announced that the United States of America would use preemptive action to defend itself. Which is a lovely turn of phrase. Attack first. Yes. However, not everyone was convinced. A Wall Street Journal editorial

piece came out and simply said, don't attack Saddam. It was a good headline. It claimed that a war would be a distraction on the actual war on terror. The public was still very much behind the war on terror at this point. 9-11 wasn't that long ago, so don't get distracted. And this thought was not alone. Inside the administration, an increasingly frustrated Colin Powell warned Bush that war with Iraq made very little sense, would most likely drag on drain resources and tarnish his reputation. Oh, absolutely not. He urged Bush to take the idea of invasion to the UN at least. That will make it seem better.

Meanwhile, Vice President Cheney had the opposite view. Going to the UN would give Saddam Hussein time to prepare. Now, during this time, Cheney perhaps came on a little bit too strong, and Bush became annoyed at his vice president trying to force his hand. So he told Rice to go to Cheney's team and tell the vice president to back off a bit. You get the feeling Bush started to feel the strings a little bit here anyway meanwhile the votes to use force in iraq sailed through both houses of congress no one was going to stop that there anyone who opposed it after all was by the president's

recent definition on the side of the terrorists and no one wanted to be on the side of the terrorists did they no that's oh i hate that kind of politics. Yep. It's like treason trials all over again, isn't it? The midterms happened around this time, by the way. In a way, it was historic. For the first time since FDR, a sitting president saw gains for his party in both houses of Congress. That's what war does.

Yeah. That said, all political norms have gone out the window post-9-11. This result surprised very few at the time, so no one was shocked. Anyway, during all this, Bush was ordering a massive build-up of forces to go to Kuwait, ready for the invasion. The plan, however, was different to his father's. The prevailing wisdom back in the First War was overwhelming force. How to go wrong with overwhelming force?

There's a good or in... Shock and awe Overwhelming Force. How to go wrong with Overwhelming Force? It was called Orin... Shock and Awe. Shock and Awe. No, that's this one. Oh! Brilliant. Sorry, spoiler. However, this was a new millennium.

No need for all of that. Instead, this was going to be a relatively quick surgical strike. 240,000 troops were amassed. Subtle, yeah. Which seems a lot for surgery. I'd freak out if I was having, I don't know, an appendix removed. And they're all holding a scalpel. It's back on the menu,

boys. Those closest to you just shout the word go. Three, two, one. Anyway, putting this number into context fewer than half of what his father had gathered to invade iraq so yeah there's definitely fewer troops uh bush was personally involved in the details of the military planning he got really sucked into all of this yeah but he showed obvious boredom at dealing with the boring side of war,

such as, you know, those pesky questions like, what should we do to stop the infrastructure of the country falling apart afterwards? That sounds hard. That doesn't sound as fun as choose a building to bomb. Other questions like, how do we do with the Iraqi civilians trapped behind fighting lines?

Collateral damage. That sounds tricky. It really does. Give me a map and a laser pen. In one meeting set up to deal with the last issue I just mentioned, Bush opened the meeting by saying to the generals present, and I quote, this is something Condi wanted to talk about, referring to Condoleezza Rice. Apparently, the generals visibly relaxed at this point and stopped taking the meeting seriously. So it's nice to know that they're really, really thinking about how to deal with the aftermath of this war. Yeah, really important. Meanwhile, things are not going well internationally.

Colin Powell was asked by Bush to present evidence to the United Nations that Iraq indeed was an immediate danger to the world. Take the post-it note. Well, Powell was the member of the administration liked best by the UN because he was known as a relatively sane and down-to-earth man. He was also known to oppose the idea of war, so if he was presenting the evidence, then people knew it must be serious. If he was presenting the evidence, then people knew it must be serious. People were going to listen to this. So a visibly uncomfortable Conan Powell gave what most knew was flawed and unverified evidence. It did not go well. Powell later said that this was one of the worst moments of his life. He did not want to be giving this evidence, but it was his duty.

Yeah, France... I think the first thing he said when he stood up was, I'm so, so sorry. Well, I mean, the things he was saying were very scary. I mean, they had proof. He was saying they had proof. Saddam Hussein had WMDs. They knew it for a fact. And he could wreak havoc on the world. Yeah. Trust me. Well, he said trust me. Most countries decided not to. France, Germany and Russia in particular openly opposed the upcoming war. Countries in Central and Southern America also were not convinced. Most in those countries saw this as just an extension on what the United States had been doing in their continent for the last hundred years or so.

Yeah. Were there any countries that did support it? Oh, I don't know, Jamie't let me just look down the list oh um oh yes yes uh britain oh britain yes yeah they they uh yeah tony blair got got right behind it all he did um yeah so that's nice well done tony you were doing so well. He was doing reasonably well. He could have been the UK's the best ever prime minister until this point. Yeah. Anyway, that's for future series.

That's for prime ministers, Totalus Rankium. Yeah. So I had to physically stop myself from going down a Tony Blair rabbit hole whilst doing the research. It's like, oh, this is important. It's like, no, it's only important because I'm British. Most people in America probably did not care. But actually, Bush did really like the fact that Tony Blair was on board

because very few other people were. And it gave the United States at least some legitimacy, the fact that Britain were with them. Yeah. Because you don't want to come across like a big colonial invading force. So get Britain involved. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that'll help.

To be fair, there were a couple of other people. Spain, they were behind it. Portugal were. I mean, but yeah, not many. Anyway, realising that having UN support was a no-go, the Bush administration decided, bleep it, let's just invade anyway. Hurrah. They would create what they called the Coalition of the Willing.

Yeah. Anyway, Bush appeared on national television. He withdrew his resolution to the UN and he gave the classic cowboy ultimatum to Saddam Hussein. Saddam had 48 hours to get out of town or be shot. Did he actually say that? Or are you paraphrasing? I am paraphrasing, but only just. I mean, there's the content. Bush said, we're going to mosey on in. It was close. It really was. Yeah. Anyway, during those 48 hours, Bush got a report claiming that they'd actually located Saddam at a site just outside Baghdad.

This is great news. They could end the war before it even begins. They could just bomb this site. So they do. Saddam wasn't there. It was a hospital, wasn't it, or something? It wasn't a hospital, no. Oh, thank goodness.

But, I mean, it certainly had innocent civilians in it. Yeah. So, yeah. Brilliant. The intel was wrong. The intel was wrong. Who thought it? So, Yeah. So, yeah. The intel was wrong. The intel was wrong. Who thought it? So, it's war, Jamie.

It's war. They are going into Iraq to... Oh, look. Look, explosions, Jamie. Quick, get distracted. On March the 20th of 2003, the invasion begins. Just as the first invasion, the second one was equally very quick. The United States forces entered the country virtually unopposed, and within three weeks the capital was taken.

Do you remember this happening? Yeah. Yeah? Anything stand out to you about the invasion? I remember lots of, watching a lot of news reports of just like the fire, like lots of attacks happening at night. I remember that. Yes. Yeah, that's the main thing I remember. It was just that opening barrage of bombing of Baghdad. Yeah, those poor men, women and children being slaughtered. Yeah, I remember that. The other thing I remember is that statue being torn down.

Yes, and people hitting it with shoes. Yes, exactly. Reminiscent of Mussolini. Well, this is when that happened. The Capitol was taken and a US tow truck attached its cable to a large statue of Saddam and tore it down. The Iraqi civilians gathered then attacked the fallen statue, just as you said. It was a perfect PR shot for the Bush administration. The footage looked like it was the people of Iraq rising up against their oppressor. The footage looked like it was the people of Iraq rising up against their oppressor.

It was shown on average every seven and a half minutes on CNN and every four and a half minutes on Fox. Because they're more patriotic. Yes, exactly. It's all very interesting. It almost went completely wrong because this was set up to be a PR moment by the US forces. But they started by putting an American flag on the statue before it was toppled. And the crowd went silent. So they quickly took the US flag down.

And one of the soldiers happened to have acquired, shall we say, an Iraqi flag and put that one up instead. Oh, can you imagine, though? Just like some, I don't know, Ian, idiot Ian, I'm going to put an American flag up there. Why? No. Yeah, yeah. Put it down.

Yeah, they managed to stop the chaos that would have happened there. Oh, yeah. So they were able to get their really good PR shot, which the Bush administration absolutely loved because this was liberation. That's what it was. And vindication. Yeah. I didn't know, but it was US forces that tore the statue down. I didn't know, no. No, I thought it was exactly what I suppose the people making it wanted me to think, which is it was the Iraqi people tearing it down, but there you go. Anyway,

so Bush, happy about that. What he's not happy about is the fact that Saddam himself was nowhere to be found. Of course not. He'd done a runner. But his regime was clearly toppled, so that's good. It was time to declare victory. Someone in the administration pointed out that the aircraft carrier, the USS Lincoln, was close to getting home from the Gulf after being stationed there for years and years. Just coincidentally, it was coming home. Why not declare victory when it gets back? Ah. Ah, yeah, that looks nice and, like, warlike. You'd be with the troops, there'd be the planes.

Ah, that looked great. And then someone else went, yeah. Actually, no, why doesn't the president meet it on its way home? Let's speed this up. Why wait till it gets back? And then someone else went, yeah, and he could fly there. And then you can just imagine all the excitement in the Oval Office as everyone just started adding new details to this. Yeah. And smoke

machines out the back of the plane be so cool. Oh, you really do get that sense because it was all put into place. The president would suit up in his aviator flight gear. He'd get on an SS-3B Viking, I'll have you know. Oh, of course. Yeah. One of those, yeah. Fighter jet thing. He would take the co-pilot chair.

Once in the air, he would take over the controls and he would be in control of the plane flying at 400 miles an hour to the aircraft carrier. So as long as you can drive in a straight line yes you're good you're now in charge just don't touch anything anything at all the main pilot autopilot on there we go this president's under your control anyway uh the pilot then would take back control and land the plane yeah that's that's fair makes sense all this happened as planned amazingly this actually happened when i mean it just shows the mindset america was in at the time

you see some of the ridiculous things that have happened in politics recently um i'm struggling to imagine biden or trump getting into a fighter jet and flying to an aircraft carrier. Oh, not Biden, no. It's just, it doesn't seem like this kind of thing would happen nowadays. Trump I could picture, I actually could picture that. I could picture him, I could picture him saying he did it. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

Anyway, like I say, this actually happens. And when the plane landed, Bush got out. And for the next half an hour, it was the final scene from Top Gun. That's what it was. I can only assume Val Kilmer came up to Bush, pointed at him and said, you. And then the whole crowd went quiet. And then Val smiled and told Bush that he could be his wingman any day. And then, oh, I mean, that probably happened.

Oh, definitely, yeah. I can only assume. Yeah. Do you just say that? Yeah, Kenny Loggins was there. Oh, you're saying things I don't know anymore. You were just singing Kenny Loggins' song. Oh, was I?

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's the song. I thought it was one of the pilots, I don't know. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Anyway, it's all very exciting. Anyway, he then goes to eat with the crew, which is very nice. And then he gives his televised speech. And in the background was a large banner hung on the tall bit of the aircraft carrier.

That's right. I know my aircraft carriers. Yeah, you do. You know the bit that the people with the goggles look out the window on? The bridge? Yes, that's it. That's it. You only know that because of star trek don't lie

no no no no is this where they drive the boat yes yeah i'll make you go forwards anyway big banner hanging off that and what are the words on there in huge letters the words ironic foreboding oh sorry sorry mission accomplished misreadread that. Mission accomplished. That's what the banner says. In the speech, he said that combat operations in Iraq had ended. Hooray. I'll quote him. The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror.

We've removed an ally of Al-Qaeda. Have we? Cried someone. And he was rugby tackled to the ground. And cut off the source of terrorist funding. Are you sure? Cried someone, no, they were rugby tackled to the ground as well. Thrown off the side.

Yeah. Just a little splash in the background. And this much is certain. No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more. And that is factually true. Yes. Equally, I could say that no one's getting WMDs off Winnie the Pooh anytime soon. That is also factually true. Because

there's a big question, isn't there, Jamie? Where are these WMDs? Oh, we don't need to worry about such minutia. The whole reason for going to war that was really very highly stressed was the fact that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. So where are they? Maybe they're in the oil fields. Let's check there. Maybe we should look there. Have a really thorough look around. Well at this point the question wasn't too loud. So convinced of the propaganda most people were convinced that it was only a matter of time before they were found. And I'm not talking about the public here,

I'm talking about the Bush administration. They believed their own reasons. George Bush believes at some point they'll find some. Yes, definitely. And there are definitely many people in the administration who believes likewise. In fact, the vast majority of them believe they will find them. They just don't care that much whether they do or not. Some of them, arguably. Anyway, as Iraq fell into chaos

and practically tore itself apart, or came close to a civil war, the armed forces went on a treasure hunt. Hooray! Let's find some WMDs. They start looking in all earnest. It's only a matter of time, of course. Anyway, back home, a jubilant Bush started up his election campaign, confident that he could not lose. Cheney came to Bush and offered to step down next term. Cheney, by this point, was seen as the man behind any criticism of the Bush campaign. Something that Cheney himself was more than aware of. Generally, if something bad was going on, everyone assumed it was Cheney pulling strings in the background, possibly because that was a good assumption to make. Anyway, Bush thought about this, but no, he wants to keep his powerful vice president on.

Cheney has been a good advisor to him. So he says, no, I'm going to keep you. Anyway, he's up against a democratic, hopeful John Kerry. Oh, yes. Yes. Now, Bush respected John Kerry. Enough to be disappointed he was running against him. He thought John Kerry would be able to put up a fight. But Bush was confident.

I mean, he was a wartime president. But what's campaign on? That's what Bush needs to think about. Well, there's the obvious, and it'd probably be enough, actually. Run on America. Freedom. Hurrah.

We're under attack. I'm the wartime president. You can't have a change of leadership in this crucial time. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to argue against running on that, really, isn't it? However, Bush could not help but look back to his father's boost in the polls after his war in Iraq and see how that just disappeared overnight. So they needed something else, he thought. So there were some other things his administration had got done, by the way. It wasn't all just terror. I've done some stuff, he said to the public.

Now, I mentioned tax cuts in the first episode. Yes. Sorry, in the second episode. Last episode. So the tax cuts had gone through, but after 9-11, the administration had realised that they could do no wrong at the moment, so they just kind of slipped in

a second round of massive tax cuts while no one was looking. So much was this second tax cut weighted only to help the Walfi that Bush himself became slightly nervous by it. And he said, and I quote, won't the top-rate people benefit from this the most? Didn't we

already give them a break at the top? To which, I can only assume his advisors went, yes. Yes, we did. But there's always room for more, isn't there? To give you an idea roughly on how big tax cuts for the rich we're talking here, the owners of Walmart saved $3.9 billion over the next decade that could have been used in government spending. You know, like keeping the roads going.

Schools. Yeah, schools, funding children, you know, maybe helping Medicare people not dying. But no, no, not that. Tax cuts. The taxes were now the lowest they had been since World War II. Now, obviously, depending on your political views, this was either awful or great. Some people hated it.

Some people didn't. Anyway, that massive pile of money that Clinton had created. What pile of money? Well, that was rapidly depleting. In fact, jumping ahead slightly, just because it fits best here. Bush started with a surplus of $84 billion. Wow. Unheard of in American history. Yeah. He ends with a deficit of $84 billion. Wow. Unheard of in American history.

Yeah. He ends with a deficit of guess how much? $84 billion? $642 billion. Oh. Oh. Oh, that hurts. Yeah.

Now, partly because something else happens right towards the end, but we'll get into that right towards the end, but just know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just know that that nice cushion, it's already, already pretty much gone. And that's before anything else happens. But anyway, the fact is Bush, like all good Republicans saw that a government with no money was a government who could not interfere with things. So him using up all the money is a good thing. And I'll run on the fact I did that. I won't quite word it that way.

It doesn't sound good that way. But I'll run on the fact that I cut taxes. People like that. However, he also had something that would appease the more central voters. He had, to the opposition of many in his own party, expanded Medicare to cover the cost of prescription drugs. He had seen that Medicare would pay for a $28,000 surgery, but would not pay for the $500 pills that could prevent the surgery. This didn't make any sense to Bush. No. Yeah. So he pushed it so prescription drugs would be covered,

which many people were very happy with. But still very expensive. So in America, in American living in 2004, with type 1 diabetes, we'd still be paying either for insurance or paying a lot of money for insulin. Yeah. Which is scary. I mean, it's still not good, but... No, it's an improvement.

It is an improvement. A step in the right direction. A majority of people in the country were happy to see it. The right of his own party were very unhappy to see this. They are not democratic, you could argue. If it's what the people want, then you do it. Well, anyway, there are bigger problems for his re-election than this minor quibble over healthcare. The Iraq war was quickly turning into, how to describe it, a f***ing show, Jamie. That's what

it was turning into. A disaster, maybe, I'll say, so people can understand roughly what I said underneath those bleeps. Yeah, scenes of looting across the country were showing that law and order had completely broken down. The violence between the Shia and the Sunni Muslims was escalating. The American troops could not do anything to stop it because there weren't enough of them. But worst of all, there were no WMDs. Slowly but surely,

the press, who mostly had hugely supported the war, started asking when they would show up. And then asking whether they'd show up. And then starting to ask things like, were the administration lying to us? And then just outright saying,

we have been lied to. Yeah, and they had been lied to because there were no WMDs. The most charitable way of explaining why is to say that Saddam Hussein himself had convinced people that he had them because he was trying to appear strong. Yeah. And it is this that the intelligence communities have gotten hold of and they ran with the fact that it is the truth.

That is the incredibly charitable way of saying it. Realistically, however, there was never any solid proof. All of the so-called evidence for these WMDs, since this has been looked into through a history lens, it is very obvious that at every step of the way, anyone handling this information in the intelligence community were going, oh, well, hang on. Yes, we've got this, but it's not trustworthy. We can't use this. This isn't trustworthy.

But the politicians of the day ignored that completely and ran with it because it fit their narrative. Yes. Bush knew this. Bush knew that it was very unlikely they had WMDs. He didn't believe it, however. He believed Saddam Hussein must have them because he did not like Saddam Hussein. He had decided to get Iraq, so he had, essentially. However, there was some relief in December of 2003

when Saddam Hussein was captured. Yay! Yes, he was captured. He had a big beard and everything. The Bush administration attempted to use this as another victory lap. Hooray! Yes, he was captured, he had a big beard and everything. The Bush administration attempted to use this as another victory lap. Hooray! Look! Finally! Look! We've done so and put another banner up!

This is good news everyone! Good news? Anyone? Mission accomplished too! Yeah, the response was definitely not what they had before. People just started to question things like, so what if we got saddam hussein what are we doing here and then things got even worse as photos were released of united states soldiers posing with hooded iraqi prisoners being forced into humiliating poses yeah the international

community were already mostly peed off with the united states for marching into a war with little justification that was quickly turning out to be false justification. And now here was proof that they were just as bad as any invading occupying army. Bush apparently was blindsided by the photos. He didn't see it coming. He truly believed that his armed forces were full of upright, all-American heroes. And there's no way you would get atrocities happen in the American army. Course not, right?

Course not. It's not like people are people or anything. Nope. No, anyway, he was genuinely appalled by it, was very angered that it happened. However, when Rumsfeld offered to resign, he was Secretary of Defense, so in charge of all this, Bush refused.

Nope, you've got to stay. Or more to point, Cheney said, no, he's got to stay. Cheney and Rumsfeld went back years and years and years. Anyway, Bush saw the justification that Cheney was pushing here. This was an election year. We can't be seen as having trouble in the cabinet. It will go down badly. However, trouble in the cabinet is exactly what there was. Two main factions were warring. Cheney led the right, the Hawks, and then you had Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice leading the more moderate faction. But this was hidden from the public. It was hard to tell from the outside. The campaign continued. Bush was able to carry on with his laid-back, you-could-get-a-beer-with-him

image. They were able to paint Kerry as an elitist anti-war liberal it's uh you can't be against the war there were american troops dying over there if you're against the war you might you might as well be pro them dying somehow that always works i've never been sure i don't know why it's like i want to save american lives and bring them home uh anyway kerry indeed was going on about the war. He was talking about how Bush had perhaps gone overboard. But as it turned out, a majority of the country were not ready to hear that just yet. The election was

close. Not as close as the previous one, but it was still a very close election. Kerry even came out as the predicted winner, according to the initial exit polls. Wow. But everyone was a lot more cautious this time around, so no one was declaring states on networks anywhere near as quickly as before. Yeah, you can imagine that just the Supreme Court's like, oh, not again. Yeah, but as the night went on, it became

very clear that Bush had actually won the second term. Now, despite losing a lot of popularity of late, it seemed the country were willing to give him one more chance. So it's time to shake things up in his cabinet. Rice was given the job of Secretary of State after Colin Powell made it very clear he no longer wanted the job. Powell was very frustrated with the fact that he was seen as the face of this war that he never agreed with. In his second inauguration speech, Bush talked about freedom and liberty a lot. He used those words almost 50 times in his speech. He's a thesaurus. It made me realize that as we were growing up and quite often people our age group would be mocking America with their constantly shouting freedom.

And this is where it comes from. This is very much where it comes from. Under the fray. freedom and this is where it comes from this is very much where it comes from uh yeah uh bush also talked about bringing democracy to all countries and ending tyranny for good i mean this was grandiose stuff it's gonna bring about world peace that was now his vision yeah also coincidentally of course it also justified his war in iraq because look they're having they're having democratic elections now, look Ignore the screaming And the fighting and the shooting

But it's somewhere in there, somewhere in there An election happens that I'm sure will Bold up. Anyway, with all this Sorted, it was time for a break Bush headed back home for Texas For a vacation, which is Fair enough, presidents do need to take Breaks. Yeah. Yeah

But the holiday was to be cut short because in late august of 2005 one of the largest storms in united states history hits louisiana yes hurricane katrina yeah the most costly natural disaster in all american history when i went to louisiana a couple years ago to actually be able to speak to people that lived through it was quite, it was interesting and very eye-opening. What happened?

Obviously, a big storm hit. Yeah, a big storm hit. Somebody at the house was just ripped away, destroyed. Lots of flooding, lots of just, yeah, lots of bad things, family deaths. It was, oh, that's quite, yeah, makes you think.

Yeah, very traumatic, devastating. Was there much feeling on the ground about political response at all, or was it just remembering the natural disaster? I think it was just remembering the terror, I think. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Anyway, it had started on Tuesday the 23rd. It was a storm.

It was a big storm. It was a storm. But by Thursday, it was a Category 1 hurricane. It then hit Florida, where Jeb Bush declared a state of emergency. By the end of Friday, it had crossed Florida and was over the Gulf, where the warm waters dramatically fed the storm, and it went from a Category 3 to a Category 5 hurricane. For those of you who don't know about your hurricane categories that's the highest one oh okay oh yes although apparently there has been talk very recently of perhaps putting a six on there just as a fun side

of things to come um anyway yeah so big storm however despite all the warning signs, no one in the administration were too concerned. They'd faced hurricanes before. In fact, two already this year. It was a bad year for hurricanes, 2005. So the responses went on autopilot. Mississippi and Louisiana were declared disaster zones, which freed up federal money to help with the damages. But apart from that, states can sort this out.

It's fine. Bush, you can go on tv mention a few things about how people need to be careful and listen to um the advice given you're on holiday you've got a couple of speeches coming up about iraq and justifying the war there i mean celebrating the successes there uh so yeah let's not worry about this too much. That was generally the attitude of the administration. And then on Monday the 29th, the storm hit New Orleans. It was far worse than anyone had predicted. The amount of rainfall and the storm surge was three times the amount

that the experts had claimed would happen. However, there was hope. The levees were holding. Now, Bush was carrying on with just doing whatever he was doing, and he went about his day. He was told the levees were holding, so he assumed it was all under control, and he went to bed. At 5am, he was awoken to be told that the levees had broken in New Orleans, and it would appear that 90% of the population of the city were going to be displaced. Bush could not believe his ears and replied, 90% are you sure?

To which they said, yes. Bush decided, okay, I best cut short my vacation. But he also did a bit of thinking. Well, he didn't want to make it look like he was panicking. Like he did with the 9-11, thinking. Well, he didn't want to make it look like he was panicking. Like he did with the 9-11, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I want to seem like I'm calm and in control. It's going to take

24 hours for most of my staff to get back to the White House anyway, so I'll stay one more day. I've got a speech to do today about how great the war in Iraq's going, so I'll deliver that. It's a speech on VJ Day, Victory in Japan Day. So I'll deliver that. It's a speech on V-J Day, Victory in Japan Day.

So I'll do that. I don't want to miss that. But then I'll get straight back and deal with this hurricane business, he thinks to himself. So he goes to the naval air station. He gives his planned speech on the anniversary of V-J Day.

And during this, Bush was presented with a guitar by a famous country musician. Bush received the gift very graciously, and he gave the guitar a couple of strums. Oh. How nice. He's got a guitar. It was a PR disaster. Mmm.

Bush seemed unaware or unwilling to be aware of the unfolding disaster in one of his largest cities. The news was full of people on the roof of their houses, making homemade signs, begging for help. People floating in roads that are now rivers. And cut to the president. Oh, he's just playing a guitar, talking about how good the war is, that we all know is not going well. And the worst thing is he was singing in the rain,

which is poor taste, Bush, poor taste. Poor taste. Followed up by When the Levee Breaks by Led Zeppelin. Yes, yeah. Too soon, Bush. Way too soon. Anyway, the image of him casually strumming the guitar was soon all over the news channels.

By this point, the head of FEMA, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I'll have you know, was a man named Mike Brown. Why do you think Mike Brown was in charge of FEMA? Nepotism or because he knew what he was doing? It's one of those, Jamie. Have a guess which one. Nepotism! I mean, it was political favours. Bush was handing out political favours. Head of FEMA was a bit of a cushy job. Not today. Yeah, Mike Brown was in no way qualified for this position whatsoever. And then suddenly he had to deal with this. Something that Mike Brown

apparently knew himself because he tried to contact the president through the White House, saying, and I quote, this is bigger than what we can handle. This is bigger than what FEMA can do. I'm asking for help. Wow. It is unclear if this was passed on to the president. So he's in over his head. The governor of Louisiana likewise was not getting anywhere. She tried to contact the president, but the White House would not put her through. What? She later said she strongly suspected it's because she was a Democrat

and the Republicans in the White House did not want to help her. They wanted this to be seen as a state issue and the Democrats failing. Now, I am sure the Republicans in the White House would strenuously deny this, but the fact is she wasn't put through to the president. There was no record of her talking to Bush on this day, so that's not good. Anyway, eventually Bush heads for Air Force One so he can fly back to the White House. Now, in order to limit the damage of the whole guitar debacle from the previous day, it was decided by Rove. Remember Rove, his chief political advisor?

Yep. Why not? Because it's roughly on the way. Why don't we fly over New Orleans on the way back to the White House? Check out those wonderful signs on the roofs. i'll quote rove here we should have him looking down and surveying the damage in new orleans and along the coast of mississippi and alabama can picture them on air force one him saying this and all the other advisors just looking absolutely aghast no no no let's let's not do that because he will come across as detached and aloof. We're flying in the world's most famous private airplane. We can't just be doing little loops over the devastation. Waving out the window. Oh, that's not a good idea.

So if we're going to New Orleans, we need to land And that in itself is not necessarily a good idea They're in the middle of a crisis They don't want to put time and energy in doing protection details for the president So maybe we just go back to the White House rope Maybe? Anyway, whether to do this or not was put forth to Bush And you can guess which one he chose Let's make loops

Yeah, soon enough the plane went from its usual height of tens of thousands of feet right down to two and a half thousand feet. Like, nice and low. Yeah. So he could really see the fear in the eyes of his own citizens. Yeah. It's not good enough just to do it. We need to get some photos of this, said Rove. So some photos were released by the president's team of Bush looking out of the plane window down on the devastation with a sort of detached look on his face in fact if you just google katrina bush looking out window it will come up and you can go wow they thought this was a good idea i remember that picture yeah all those pictures bush admits oh here we go. HuffPost.

Bush admits Katrina Air Force One photo was a huge mistake. Inverted comments. There he is, just sort of peering out the window. I mean, there is one where he's looking at the camera looking a bit horrified. In a kind of, oh my God, is that a camera, Rove? Is that a camera? Put it away!

That's not good, is it? camera, Rove? Is that a camera? Put it away! That's not good, is it? But, I mean, he was horrified because he could see that 80% of the city was flooded. He could see the people on the rooftops waving their homemade signs. It's totally wiped

out, is what he said to the people next to him. Anyway, he arrives back at the White House and delivered a speech. He attempted to come across as to him. Anyway, he arrives back at the White House and delivered a speech. He attempted to come across as calm and in control, but it didn't work. The press, already sensing blood after the whole guitar and plain window thing, tore the speech apart. It was a day late and worse, he was grinning throughout it. He just didn't seem to care. And there was something to that, because Mike Brown, remember the FEMA guy,

later said to Congress when this was being investigated i'll quote him here if there had been a report that said yes we've confirmed that a terrorist had blown up the 17th street canal levee then everyone would have jumped all over that and would have been trying to do everything they could yeah but because this was a natural disaster it became the stepchild within the Department of Homeland Security. The administration just did not move on this. They let Louisiana just

deal with it. Yeah, you kind of need to. Sorry, as you've been talking, I've been looking at some of the photographs of New Orleans being flooded. It's very yeah. Well, it was bad. Really bad uh the estimated death counts were varying wildly at the time understandably but ultimately it was decided around 1 800 people died during this 300 000 homes

were destroyed uh absolutely devastating so bush decided, I really need to get on top of this situation now. I'm going to go to New Orleans. I'm going to see the damage up close. I'll land the plane this time and everything. The trip did not help. In fact, it made things worse. When he arrived, he announced that things might look bad now, but he had a friend, by the way, and he lost a house. And actually, his friend was just looking forward to seeing it rebuilt, because they'll be able to rebuild it in a better way. Yeah, no, the fact that this friend's house was a vacation home of a multi-millionaire just made him seem somewhat out of touch. A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. He then publicly praised the work by Mike Brown. This did not go down well,

because pretty much everyone could tell Mike Brown was out of his depth at this point, so he should not be being praised. But by praising him, Bush also seemed like he did not know what he was doing. So bad was the president's handling of Katrina, both in real terms and PR terms, his poll numbers dropped from 52 to 38. Wow. This would never recover. And there, because things are all a bit miserable, you know what, Jamie? I was meant to say this at the start. We can have a little bit of a break. Because I completely

forgot. At the start, I was going to say, if any time, Jamie, things get a bit too stressful or depressing, you can call for a Bushism. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just to lighten the mood. Okay. So, yeah. I mean, Katrina was horrible and awful. Yeah. Just to lighten the mood. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, Katrina was horrible and awful. Yeah.

But would you like a Bushism? Yeah, let's have a bit of Bush. Okay. What would you like a Bushism on? Would you like a Bushism? Here's your choices. I like the way they're categorised. Would you like a Bushism on a famous proverb?

Or would you like a Bushism on the concept of history? Concept of history. It's a short one. He was speaking with John McCain at the time in the year 2000, and he said, I think we all agree the past is over. Which is one of those comments. Very prophetic, I think. Well, yeah, I mean, it's either incredibly wise or incredibly stupid

So that's that one In fact, I'm just going to give you the other one Because we're supposed to be doing these for a while This is one that I have quoted before in the podcast Might have been in the Roman one It's my personal favourite There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee,

that says, fool me once, shame on, shame on you, fool me, you can't get fooled again. I remember that one. I do enjoy that one. Yeah. So, yeah. There you go. Right, well, if at any point you want another Bushism, then... Oh, thank you.

Just raise your hand and say Bushism, and we'll say that. Okay. So I'm glad we've lightheartedly swept over the Katrina disaster. Oh, thank you. of time too because there was definitely something to be said for that but yes a lot of black people live in new orleans and uh there was speculation should we say whether the administration would have i don't know moved a little bit quicker if this was perhaps i don't know new york or san francisco yeah san francisco or yeah anyway. Bushisms, hey? They're fun. What else have we got? Oh, yes, yes, Iraq. Things are getting worse in Iraq, Jamie. The elections that had been set up had happened,

but few seemed to care in the United States. All they cared about was that, on average, 75 servicemen and women were being killed a month, on average, by this time. On top of this, various things that the administration had pushed through under the panic of 9-11 were starting to come to light. The public learned about

waterboarding and the black sites. Four years after 9-11 was enough time just about for the public not to have a gut emotional reaction anymore and many questioned the fact that they now had a government that was sanctioning torture. Yeah, that's... It's not the best look.

It's not. It's not good, is it? Pressure built up until the Supreme Court stepped in once more. Supreme Court, Jamie, they've been doing a stellar job recently. Shall we see how they fall on torture, shall we? Yeah. Well, actually, if you're pleased to know, they found out that, you know those prisoners that the United States took during the war in Afghanistan? Yes.

You know, the prisoners taken in a self-proclaimed war on terror? But it turns out that those prisoners taken in a war are technically what's known as prisoners of war, not unlawful combatants. People in the US, aww. So, who knew? Who knew? Easy mistake to make. But, oh, that does mean all the torture, I mean enhanced interrogation techniques

you're doing are in fact illegal. So that looked bad for Bush, didn't it? Definitely. But finally, some good news from Iraq. Good news? No, no, I'm just kidding. It's just getting very grim again, isn't it? No, it's very bad.

The Golden Mosque in Samarra, a holy site for Shia Muslims, was bombed during an act of terrorism, and the country's almost civil war between Shia and Sunni Muslims became pretty much a full-on civil war. The only reason why it's not really called a full-on civil war is because it's hard to have a civil war When there's an occupying force occupying you At the same time

In September 2006 Alone over 3,000 Civilians died This is roughly the same amount That had died in the atrocity That had started all this mess It's different though because they're foreign Well there is that, isn't there?

Mm. Anyway. It's an absolute cluster bleep. Yes. Yes, it really is. But also, because you do raise, unfortunately, a good point there, it was easier, if not easy, for most of the American public to discount it as happening far away.

However, American troops were being targeted by both sides, and the number of US troops dying start to rise as well. And we were already on 75 average a month, and that is starting to steadily creep up. Rice in particular was getting very frustrated. She had fought against the hawkish Cheney faction every step of the way, but they had always had the president's support. But it was demonstrably clear that they had been wrong in their approach. Because as you have just said, everything is now a cluster bleep. Rice said to Bush, Mr. President, what we are doing is not working. Really not working. It's failing. Just really hammer home to him. It's like, seriously, we need to change this.

And it would seem that after several years of this obvious fact, the countless deaths and no tangible success, Bush was ready to listen. It's not working, you say? Well, two asides from the statement I just made. I say countless deaths because it's very hard to count the deaths in a conflict such as this. deaths because it's very hard to count the deaths in a conflict such as this but just so you know the death toll by 2006 is definitely in its 100,000s. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Secondly I said no tangible success in the war. When I say that I mean in its war against terror goals. Yeah. In its official goals no tangible success. Yes Sad Saddam had been executed, but that meant nothing because the WMDs didn't exist in the first place.

That doesn't mean that no one was benefiting from the war. The nationalised oil in the country was now being sold off to international private firms, of course. How nice. Anyway, the war was going so badly that a large number of retired generals wrote a letter demanding that Rumsfeld be removed from his post as the secretary of defense bush after being pressured by cheney refused and now i get to introduce another

volcano dweller yay yay we didn't have newt for very long no and we're not going to talk about this guy much at all but it's the first time I've really come across his name because, ah, that's right, it's Mitch McConnell. Oh! Mitch McConnell, the second- The haunted tortoise, yeah. The haunted tortoise that is Mitch McConnell. He is currently the second-ranking Republican in the Senate. He went to see Bush and told him bluntly,

you are currently so disliked that you are going to lose us the midterms, so please at least start withdrawing troops, could you? Yeah. Bush replied that he would not let polls dictate his plans in Iraq, which in some ways is very admirable. Sometimes you've got to do the unpopular thing to do the right thing. Sometimes, however, like this, you're just being an idiot. Yeah.

People hate it because it's awful. Stop doing it. Yeah. About to say something I probably won't say much in future episodes. Mitch McConnell was correct. The Republicans lost hard in the midterms. For the first time since 1994, the Democrats took control of the House under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi. More on her in future episodes yes again another technique a fair to say polarizing figure if oh yeah yes nancy pelosi is very much

disliked in many circles held up as a hero in many circles um yes we are also we're seeing the current well not quite current names and n. Nancy Pelosi obviously is no longer there. Mitch McConnell technically is, but not for much longer. Anyway, Bush realised that this was a very bad result. He called it, and I quote, a thumping. Well, yes, it was. So he decided to shake things up. What Rice had been saying to him for quite some time now had been playing on his mind. Maybe she was right. He had always trusted her, and she has been telling me I've

been getting bad advice from Cheney and his faction. So maybe I should do something. Over the next few weeks, the balance of power shifted significantly in the White House. First of all, Bush finally gets rid of Rumsfeld, to the relief of many. Sounds like the, um, oh, what's his name, the, the, filled uh to the relief of many sounds like the um oh what's his name the the in dracula plays he's like the person dracula sort of makes his little puppet not blofeld that's something else that's james bond that's james bond it's something felt anyway okay delete that you don't need that it's fine you carry on you just carry on, Rob. Sorry if I'm interrupting. And then, to Rice's delight, he put in a man named Robert Gates in to be Secretary of Defence, someone who was far more aligned with her than with Cheney. In fact, she said, about the time I could barely contain my joy.

Cheney, equally, was very unhappy with the loss of Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld was his friend of many decades, and he had been removed, and this was common knowledge that Cheney was very unhappy. When discussing the job with Gates, Bush asked Gates if he had any questions, but then didn't wait for the obvious question because he just continued and said, Cheney, and then said, and I quote, He is a voice, an important voice, but only a voice. So, with losing his biggest ally in the administration,

Rice gaining an important ally, and the president now openly saying that he is only a voice, Cheney found his political clout hugely diminish. Now, he had arguably been the most powerful vice president in all of United States history, but only while the president let him be. The office is fundamentally weak. Yeah, it's interesting.

Do you think Cheney was disappointed? He's like, but Bush was an idiot. I had all this. How's it gone away? Possibly, but maybe Cheney felt like he'd done all he needed to do. Yeah, it's that. Well, he's just said that to save face, though, I think. Yeah. Mission think. Yeah.

Mission accomplished. Three. Well, with this shift in power came a marked difference to the end of the Bush administration, while Rice's faction was chiefly advising. Now, this was very hard to see from an outside perspective. The general public wouldn't have really seen much of a difference. But if you look back on it,

you can definitely see things in the Bush administration put into place here that the Obama administration pick up and use, which I'll go into in a moment. So one example of how there was some subtle differences here. In 2007, when Israel brought intelligence to the United States, Syria were building a nuclear reactor with the help of North Korea.

So you guys need to do something about that war on terror, etc, etc. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. Cheney went, yes, we definitely do need to do something. We need to use our military to destroy the site. At the very least, we need to go and bomb it. Yeah, I mean, just to, yeah, because terror, etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rice and Gates were both aghast at this.

No, no, no, no no we can't just go bombing another country in the middle east that is going to spark yet another war in the region and it could lead to syrian retaliation against united states troops in iraq we've got people over there we can't just bomb indiscriminately yeah bush listened to the latter the united states did not get involved. So there's a change. That is actually a big change. Yes.

That is against usual policies of just going, yeah, go on. Let's throw a firework in there. It's definitely against the policies of the administration so far, yes. But the new approach of the administration was put to the test when North Korea conducted its first nuclear test. Under Rice's recommendation... Yeah. Under Rice's recommendation, yeah, under Rice's recommendation, this was handled diplomatically rather than militarily. That's quite a sensible approach.

Yeah, over the next two years, North Korea were offered various things to disarm. How about we give you a deal on oil, North Korea? How about we remove you from the international terror list, North Korea? How about we, like, open trade routes? Anything, anything at all. Do you want to get rid of your nukes? Come on now, North Korea. Anyway, that went on for about two years. Cheney was incensed. In fact, I'll quote him, Rice made concession after concession. They had lost the real objective, which was forcing North

Korea to give up its weapons. Cheney felt fully vindicated when, with weeks to go in the administration, the talks broke down completely and North Korea kept their weapons. So Cheney's faction were able to turn around and say, see, stupid weak rice faction. They couldn't do anything. If we were in charge, we would have sorted this out.

Or started World War III. Well, let's hope that more slightly writer-leaning faction of the Republicans don't gain power in the future. Well, we'll see, we'll see. Anyway, so things aren't going well, but what about the third branch of the axis of evil, Jamie? Iran.

What about Iran? So things aren't going well with North Korea, but Iran also is starting to build nuclear weapons. That's why we put them in the axis of evil, after all. What should we do here? Well, Rice had taken the lead here as well, and talks were setting up about their nuclear programs. But just like North Korea, the talks weren't really going anywhere. So negotiating wasn't working. Do you want a Bushism? Oh, yes. Yeah, sorry. Bushism.

Yeah, let's have a Bushism. Right, okay. You can have a Bushism about education or about the economy. I kind of want the bondage one, but let's go for education. Let's go for both, but start with education. Okay, let's go for education. Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning? Brilliant. That's true. Rarely is that question asked.

He said about the economy um and the fact that someone had to work three jobs you work three jobs uniquely american isn't it i mean that's fantastic you're doing that which is not an awful misspeak it's just just awful it's just not good i'll just give you a general one here and then we'll move on because it's one of his most famous. Yeah. He was attempting to reassure the business community that he does not support tearing down dams to protect endangered fish species. So he said, and I quote, I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully. The great fish schism of 20... Yeah. i mean it's true it's true yeah yeah um

right there's a bushism for you let's get back to all of the depressing stuff um oh yeah there we were uh rice had come along and said there's a better way to do this than going in all gung-ho, but so far she's achieved nothing, and Cheney is lapping that fact up. Yeah. So that's nice. However, there was something going on behind the scenes in the administration. Were Rice and Bush having an affair? No, no, no, it wasn't that. No, something going under the radar. It only really comes into play under Obama, but it starts here. So I'm going to mention it here. I think it's only fair to Bush. Because he had, back in 2004, given new powers to the Treasury Department.

They were now tied into the intelligence community, essentially meaning that they now had the power to be able to have the most up-to-date and accurate information on how all the money in the world was being moved around. Not just legally, but illegally as well, because they had all the intelligent ties. But that's good to know, the legal stuff anyway. But I can see how the legal money being moved is more of a business thing rather than a... Well, with the Treasury having all of this information,

they created a new office called the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence. They were tasked first with North Korea. Can you do anything about North Korea? So soon, and again, away from the public eye, treasury officials were traveling the globe, meeting with very important people in very important banks, and explaining to these banks just how embarrassing it must be for them to unwittingly of course be moving money for a terrorist state obviously this is all a mistake we understand but if it is not fixed you can kiss business with the united states goodbye now it takes a lot to scare a big international bank. Yeah. But the American government saying, we will cut all financial ties with you, will do it. Now, this was going on as the Bush years came to an end.

But the Treasury Department official who was in charge of this scheme was a Republican named Stuart Levy, and he was persuaded to carry on by Obama. And this policy would continue, but more on that next time. So yeah, so those things I've just mentioned, just wanted to point out there's definite shift towards the end of Bush's administration there. Yeah.

But anyway, Bush is on the way out. He is hugely unpopular. He inherited a country at the end of a mini-economic golden age that had relatively recently won the Cold War and was the only superpower in the world. Well, at least nothing big can happen now right at the end to make it worse. Right? I mean, you're half a bullet point ahead of me, but yes.

Sorry. Yeah, I was just going to point out that he is leaving it in massive debt, embroiled in two wars, and with global peace more uncertain than it had been since the Cold War. But, as you rightly say, at least there's no time for anything else to happen. No. What's that? He asks. You know how people fall into a room when something dramatic's happened.

Yeah. I like seeing that person's a personified dollar sign as well. Stumbles into the room. Just gasps. The economy! dollar sign as well stumbles into the room just gas the economy it's it's dead and then the dollar sign just falls to the floor blood slowly soaks the carpets of the oval office oh yeah yeah yeah the the economy's just um imploded yes it has now jamie i was really proud of myself. I trimmed some areas because I knew this was coming up, and I left myself with 800 words to explain the financial crash of 2008. Brilliant.

Thanks, Rob. That's really good. Good podcasting call there. Yeah, yeah. I thought you'd want to. No, it is interesting though because I remember it happening but I don't know why. I didn't

see it affecting me much or anything but everyone seemed really freaked out about it. Well, this is it. I remember it very well. I was young at the time. What's going on here? I could see the war in Iraq and how that was a cluster bleep. I could see how all that was going wrong.

I'd seen images of Katrina. I knew all that was really bad. The financial crash is complex, very important. So I figure we do need to give it a little bit of room here in the podcast. So here we go. I'm going to come away from the narrative for a moment and just give you a simplified version of the economic crash of 2008. Thank you.

It's all about two things. Money. Mortgages. Money. But mortgages. Yeah. And rich idiots. Of course.

Now, usually people talk about the mortgages and how certain things with mortgages cause the economic crash. But I'd just like to really make sure no one forgets that it was also rich idiots. But we'll go into that more as I've explained what happened. Okay, let's start with mortgages, shall we? So let's really go back to real basics here. Imagine a mortgage as a monopoly house from the game. You know the little green houses? Yeah. Yeah. That is now a mortgage. Okay. Okay. So you want to buy a house? Yes. Yes. You can't afford it. No. You don't have the money to buy a house. Absolutely not. So you come to me. I'm a bank. Hey bank. I give you, I don't know, $200,000. Cheers. Thank you. Yeah. Pretty nice. You now need to give me your little green plastic house.

That's collateral. I'll have that. Thank you very much. That is the mortgage. Now, you keep paying me back, and eventually I'll give you this piece of plastic back. There you go. But until you do, if at any point you don't pay up, because I've got that little green plastic Monopoly piece to prove that that house is really mine, I get to take that house away from you. Make sense? Yeah, collateral. Got it. So how much is my little plastic house worth? 200,000. Yeah, exactly.

It's worth a lot of money, isn't it? It's only a little plastic house, but it's worth a lot of money. Excellent. Assuming you pay me back, of course. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, safe as houses, yeah? It's a mortgage.

People pay their mortgages. Yeah, everyone does that, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Because I'm a bank, banks make money by investing in things, moving money around. So what I often do is I sell my little green plastic monopoly houses. It's a way for me as a bank to move money around. Mortgages are long-term investments. I'm not actually going to get any real money out of this little plastic house for many years. Sometimes as a bank, I want money quickly. So what I do is I sell these to other banks, investment firms, et cetera, et cetera. Now to make things easier, because selling all these little plastic greenhouses is a bit of a pain, I usually don't sell individual greenhouses. I bundle them all up into a big bundle.

Like a package deal. Like a package deal. So just like in the game of Monopoly, what do you do when you put all your little greenhouses together? Get a big red house. Get a big bundle. Like a package deal. Like a package deal. So, just like in the game of Monopoly, what do you do when you put all your little greenhouses together? Get a big red house. Get a big red one. Or a hotel. So, imagine that. You've got a big red hotel, yeah?

Yeah. Okay. So, I'm selling, happily selling these red hotels to other groups. And everyone is happy. Now, in the investment world, these red hotels were getting very popular. The prices of houses were rising. It was a very safe investment. People pay back their mortgages.

This is all good. Yeah. It's guaranteed money makers. So what's the problem here? Well, as we've seen, the world of finance has steadily been stripped of regulation since Reagan's era, hasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And therefore, the free market was very free in this case free enough for

the aforementioned rich idiots to be in charge yeah see if you can spot the point where you think someone like i don't know sensible samuel should have perhaps stepped in and just gone hang on is this gonna is this gonna work right anyway so red hotels yeah very popular more people want to buy them but there's only so many red hotels and i've just sold, so red hotels, yeah? Very popular. More people want to buy them. But there's only so many red hotels, and I've just sold all my red hotels. But I think, as a bank, why don't I just make some more hotels? What do we make the red hotels out of? Houses. The little green ones.

Yes. The individual mortgages. So let's just bundle more of those little greenhouses together and make more red hotels. Ah, slight problem. We've ran out of the little greenhouses together and make more red hotels. Ah, slight problem. We've ran out of the little greenhouses as well. Oh. We've used up all of the little greenhouses. So what do we do?

Build new ones? Make more little greenhouses. In other words, sell more mortgages to people. Oh, but that's more risky. Because you loosen up what your criteria is for giving a mortgage. That was Samuel saying that. Yeah. Just a little murmur from sensible Samuel at this point. up what your criteria is for giving a mortgage that was samuel saying that yeah just just a

little murmur from sensible samuel at this point it's like oh that that could be a bit okay um yeah you've absolutely right you've seen it straight away the only way to encourage people to get mortgages who weren't already getting them is to make mortgages more available the only way to make them more available is to make them cheaper and make them easier to get yeah so right you're no longer that person who got a mortgage at the start of this tale. You're now a brand new person. Hey. How are you?

Yeah, yeah. Nice to meet you. You're that person's twin brother. Yeah. You, unfortunately, have not had the same kind of start in life as your twin brother did, ironically. Yeah, things have gone hard for you. You're not in a place where you can really afford regular repayments on a mortgage. No, I mean, my name is Imaj, and I've got a job, but it doesn't pay well.

Yeah, life's hard. Yeah. It is. But hey, good news. Your bank have just contacted you and said, hey, do you want a mortgage? Hell yes, I do. I want to own a house. Your first reaction is probably, apart from that, oh, but I probably can't afford one. Well, I did think that,

but then I thought, well, I want a house. Don't worry, I'm telling you, as a bank, it's fine. No, you can afford it. But what if I can't? Sign here, free money. Yeah, right. Okay. Cool. So there we go. You're happy. You've just got a mortgage. I'm happy. I've got another green little house that i can make red hotels out of that little green house you gave me though it's um it's a little bit malty yeah i mean it's not yeah it's like someone's took a lighter to it for a while yeah crispy around the edges yeah it's not good it's all it's all soft and yeah it's really not good now by this point sensible samuel's sort of jumping up and down in the background slightly going hey hang on you can't give this person a mortgage you're a

bank the only way you make money is by like lending money getting that money back no risk yeah yeah you should you should you be doing this um but i think as a bank okay no i should not have given you that mortgage because we make a loss as a bank but here, no, I should not have given you that mortgage because we're making a loss as a bank. But here's the clever bit. As long as I get a greenhouse from you, even if it is a bit melted and a bit weird looking, I can still use it, put it together with some decent greenhouses to make a red hotel. And then I can sell that red hotel and no one will ever know.

So diffuse the slightly dodgy house with, like bulk it up with stronger mortgages. By the way, the melty houses are called subprime mortgages. I'm trying to avoid all of the technical jargon in this because it just goes over your head, doesn't it? That wasn't an attack at you personally, Jamie. I know it was and I'm okay with that. It's fine.

That was a royal you. You, Jamie. I know it was, and I'm okay with that. It's fine. That was a royal you. You, Jamie. Look, I'm making it simple, Jamie. It's plastic houses. Yeah, so, but just in case, it's like, where's this term subprime mortgages that I've heard lots about come from? This is what we're talking about here. Anyway, so I start doing that as a bank. I'm hiding all my dodgy mortgages in with the good ones but you know what this is easy no one's checking well no regulations right there's no regulations this is great shut up samuel this is great in fact why not stop there i think why not make red hotels out of entirely malty greenhouses. Genius. Red hotels look good.

As long as you don't strip away the red casing, you can't see all the melted, deformed plastic mass underneath. This is where Samuel's got like a hand over his mouth. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. At this point, Samuel is going, hang on, you're making money by selling things that you know have no value. There is no way that is sustainable.

Yes, okay, in all get-rich-quick schemes, that's essentially what you're doing. You're buying for a dime and you're selling for a dollar, but it's not sustainable. And you are an international bank. The world economy rests upon you. Do you not think this is somewhat irresponsible? By this point, Samuel is just being dragged into a cupboard somewhere. We're making a lot of money, Samuel. Shut up.

Right. Okay. So, the banks have discovered an infinite money glitch, as it were. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing can go wrong. No. Meanwhile, the fact that anyone could now

get a mortgage meant that more people were getting mortgages that meant more people were trying to buy houses make sense yeah that means that houses become more expensive supply and demand yeah yeah that means those red hotels are now worth even more fantastic So let's build more red hotels! Okay, we really don't have any, we've only got the mounted charts bits now, but let's throw those in as well! Hurrah! And then the obvious happens. I mean, I know next to nothing about economics. It is not an area I know much about. So even when I'm reading about this and I'm going, but surely that's, oh yes, no, that's what happened. I mean, the fact that this was not seen is absolutely baffling. I mean, it must have been seen.

It was obviously just ignored. Yeah, I think that's what it was, but we're making money. Yeah, because then the obvious happens. Because the people who handed over the Malti houses, so you, what was your name again? Well, the first one that bought the real house is Jamie. I'm E-Maj, which is Jamie backwards. I like it, I like it.

So you're E-Maj. Yeah. Well, Jamie, to begin with, he carries on paying for his mortgage, that's fine. But E-Maj, you can't pay. No. My job doesn't do it. And I've got like 18 kids. I've got four wives. You suspected this, but the bank assured you, but it's absolutely fine.

So you went for it anyway. It's the bank. I mean, yeah, they're giving you free cash. So you went for it. Well, now I come along and say, well, you didn't pay. You need to pay. And you say, well, I can't pay. No.

Fine. Well, looks like we're going to have to take the house then. But I live here. It's my house. Looks like we're going to have to take the house then. But I live here. It's my house. Well, there's a slight problem here because as loads of houses start being repossessed.

The value drops. Because loads of houses start being repossessed. There's now lots of houses now suddenly on the market. But there's no demand for houses anymore because anyone who wanted a house recently was able to very easily get one. So the house prices start to drop rapidly. So this $200,000 house is now worth like $5 kind of thing. Yeah. And Jamie, by the way, because of the fluctuation in house prices, there's a very good chance he's now paying more on his mortgage

than the house is actually worth. Is that so the bank can make back the money they're losing from the non-payers well it's because he's tied into the mortgage and the uh the house just isn't worth what it used to be anymore because the house prices have shrank so they'd be paying less then wouldn't he no because he's tied into the mortgage he's agreed to pay a certain amount oh so he's paying more for a house that's worth less got it yeah right yeah so it's not just ematch who's screwed over by this uh jamie is screwed over by this as well would it does it matter if you're planning to live there for your life it makes no difference yes this is a very good point and this is something i remember

a very very geeky seven-year-old me asking my mom and she struggled to answer in a way that a seven-year-old could understand but essentially yes if you're planning to live there the rest of your life it doesn't matter but not many people do plan to live somewhere for the rest of their lives that's true um so yeah and also there is just that sense of hang on i'm paying for something more than i should be and it makes people very upset also investment, investment groups, banks, etc. were starting to realise that their red hotels that they'd been buying were made up of malty green plastic. Because people had started to look into the hood of these things. Seeing that, they quickly try and get rid of them. Oh, these are toxic, let's get rid of these. But by this point, no one wanted to buy them because

everyone had started to realise that they were actually valueless. The value of the hotels had just been stripped away. The banks making the Malti Green houses suddenly found the scheme was not working anymore and realised they had lots of Malti Green houses, so many in fact that they were dependent on them not to become bankrupt. But because they were worth so little, they were stuck with them and therefore they were dependent on them not to become bankrupt. But because they were worth so little, they were stuck with them, and therefore they were going to go bankrupt. And these, as I've said, are some of the biggest banks on the planet. So there you go, that is a very simple version of why the financial crisis happened. Oh, so as our Conservative Party say, it wasn't actually Labour's fault then?

Conservative Party say it wasn't actually Labour's fault then? No, no. No, it wasn't all down to Labour. For anyone listening not in this country, the Conservatives have successfully, for a very long time, well over a decade, managed to convince a large portion of this country that the financial crisis that started in America was due to the Labour government here, to the point that there are still a lot of people in this country who genuinely think that's still true. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, America. Thanks for that. It's also, by the way, a very simple version of what I've just done. Obviously, I was talking about multi-houses. It is far more complex than

that because there's also loads of other financial things going on with everything tied into each other uh for one instance is uh there's a whole insurance thing happening insurance was being sold on these red hotels wherever mortgages were default and it made everything worse the fact that this insurance existed. You'll be shocked to learn that it was because the area was not in any way regulated. Oh, weird that. And the insurance companies were selling insurance without money backing it up. It's weird. It's almost like you need regulation for things to work. So because they didn't actually have the money in place to pay up if anything went wrong,

when things went wrong the insurance companies just were absolutely ruined and these weren't small insurance companies these are insurance companies like global scale insurance for the big banks yeah uh yeah um anyway when all this hits in three months the u.s economy shrank 8.9 percent That doesn't sound big, does it? But actually, that's billions and billions of dollars. Huge. Huge. Mind-staggeringly huge. 651,000 people lost their jobs within six months. Wow. Yeah. And not just the rich idiots that caused all this. Now, as we have said many times before, the boom and bust of capitalism means you can't put the economy

solely on the door of the president. No. But I think it's safe to say that the gutting of the regulations since the 70s very much led to this. We can't blame a single president. We can't even blame a single party. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush all had their hand in this. Yeah. Definitely. Anyway, let's go back to Bush, Clinton, and Bush all had their hand in this.

Yeah. Definitely. Anyway, let's go back to Bush, shall we? The first Bush saw of any of this was in 2007 when a French bank, BNP, stopped dealing with all of those red hotels. House prices were falling at the time and worried that this was potentially going to be a problem, he passed a one-time tax rebate. That will stop the curve of this. It was, in retrospect, like putting an umbrella up in a hurricane. It did literally nothing.

Then in early 2008, Bush was told that Bear Stearns, one of the largest investment banks on Wall Street, was close to failing. This seemed like a shock, but also, I mean, investment banks are literally big gambling dens. That's what they are.

So sometimes this happens. It's not good, but it happens. Bush turned to his Treasury secretary, a man named Paulson, who had been the CEO of Goldman Sachs. So in theory, he knew what he was talking about. What are we doing about this? Asked Bush. Well, Paulson was able to engineer J.P. Morgan buying out Bear Stearns. So we've done some manipulation.

We're going to get another bank to bail out another bank. Now, Bush didn't like the sound of this. That's not free market. The whole point of, you know, we're Republicans. Free market. Let the weak die and the strong businesses survive. And free market will out. Yeah.

Paulson pointed out yes I know that's what we say but Bear Stearns isn't the weak I mean they they're strong uh if they die that just sends a message to all the other banks that they could die as well they're confident yeah so let's let's just prop this up a little bit, shall we? He was right. No bank was safe. Bear Stearns was big. And panic had started to set in.

No one was really talking about it to the general public. But behind the scenes, those in the know, those that worked on Wall Street, the bubbling was going on in the background. Something big was coming. The major banks and their investors started to have a good look into these red hotels and they were horrified at what they saw. But here was the main problem. The sector was so unregulated and the financials so complex that literally no one could say how bad this situation was because no one could actually get the big picture because no one was regulating it. It's like the wild west of banking and money isn't it? Yeah and then things

rapidly start to get worse. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac announced that they were in serious trouble. They are both publicly traded companies that doubt in mortgages. They are huge. Them failing would deal a severe blow, not just to the housing market, but to the value of the dollar itself. Paulson told Bush this, and Bush decided, okay, well, we need to step in then, don't we? So the administration steps in, put them both into conservatorship, fired the bosses, propped the company up. Essentially a bailout, because it was a bailout. This gains a lot of criticism. Why are taxpayers helping

Wall Street banks? If they can't work properly, if they're not good enough to succeed, then why is our tax money going on bailing them out? Understandably, the public did not like this. Especially the Republican public. Because this goes against all of their ethos of free market.

Bush was very sensitive to this. He agreed it was not a good look. So he made it clear, no more bailouts. They're starting to call me Mr. Bailout and I don't like that name. Then the Lehman Brothers announced they were going under. Now, Lehman was a huge bank, even bigger than Bear Stearns. And this shook the financial world to its core.

If Lehman Brothers could go down literally no one was safe in the world and this looked like the tip of an iceberg Bush however sticks to his guns no no more government bailouts we're not doing it so Paulson worked very hard with the British bank Barclays can you can you buy them out we need here. Barclays was interested, but the British government at the time stepped in and went, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Barclays, no. Bad Barclays. We are not buying up America's financial problems, thank you very much. Cook, do you imagine the Tories will accuse us of causing an economic crash

for at least the next decade if we did something like that. Anyway, so on Monday the 15th of September 2008, the Lehman Brothers went bankrupt and the bleep hits the fan. The credit markets freeze, the stock market crashes, the economy went into recession, everything looked like it was going to just blow up. Paul's son, however, was optimistic. Yes, it looks bad now, but don't worry, Mr. President, he said. You know, six months ago when we arranged a bailout for Bear Stearns, right, well, that was a near miss. And all the banks saw that and all the banks will have seen how close they came to disaster. So all the major banks will have been spending the last six months protecting themselves from being in a situation like Bear Stearns and

like the Lehman Brothers. Lehman Brothers obviously just didn't get sorted enough, but the rest of the banks should be fine. Can you see a problem with that logic? Yes. You're ignoring humans are greedy. I mean, it just baffles me that a former CEO of Goldman Sachs honestly thought that the major banks would see the government bail out a bank and go, oh, we need to self-regulate more. What actually happened is the banks thought, cool, if we mess up, the government will step in and help. All right, let's carry on as normal then. Yeah.

Anyway, AIG then announced it's going under. They had been selling all the insurance that had nothing to back it up. And this was an even bigger problem than anything before, because AIG was interconnected to all the global finance. More than anything else, they dealt with insurance. If they go down, it will be a domino of bank failures. We are talking runs on the bank. We are talking actual financial collapse of major countries here. This is a crisis unlike the world has seen for a very long time in terms of finance. So days after saying no more bailouts, Bush ordered a bailout. Oh, good God, that can't happen.

Right, okay, IAG was saved then. We're bailing that out. It needed to be done. It just did. It needed to be done. But Bush lost all ability to claim he was sticking to his principles. I quote him, saving IAG would look like a glaring contradiction, but it was a hell of a lot better than financial collapse. I mean, yes. Yes. Yes, it was. I mean, you're no longer in the realm of political niceties of ideals here. It's either we stop this failing or the world economy is ruined. So they stop it.

The Treasury used federal emergency funds to stop the runs on the bank, and unprecedented temporary laws were put in place to stop the financial sector doing what the hell they wanted, which at the moment was mostly panic. The Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, was then set up. And now TARP essentially was all in on bank bailouts. Paulson suggested maybe it would cost 500 billion in order to stop a Great Depression like that of the 30s. Bush went, are you sure that's enough? And Paulson then went, no. But I don't think Congress will give us a trillion, which is what I actually think we'll need. In the end, they compromised on 700 billion they asked for. 700 billion. That is insane. Imagine the house you could buy with that, Roth.

That is insane. Imagine the house he could buy with that, Rafa. All because a group of investment bankers thought, ah, no one's looking. Anyway, Bush tried to get this through Congress, but it failed. Bailing the banks out isn't popular in either party. It's just not popular for anyone, really, is it? What do you mean we need to pay our taxpayer money to the banks because they messed up?

But it was from the Republicans he was getting most of the pushback, especially from the far right. The group who pushed back the most weren't called the Tea Party just yet, but this is essentially the start of the Tea Party, which we will be talking a lot more about in Obama's episodes. Yes, they were very much opposing this. Anyway, yeah, TARP failed. It did not get through Congress. The stock market suffered its largest ever single day fall. We were close to the brink internationally of a lot of bad things happening financially when Congress realised, actually, no, no, this is serious.

No one wants to bail out the banks. It's not a vote winner, but financial collapse is a real thing and we need to stop this. So a second vote was taken. Mostly Democrats switched votes, but there was movement on both sides. TARP passed. The economy stabilised just a bit, just enough so the next guy could deal with the problem. Because Obama had just beaten McCain in the election. So it looks like it was going to be all on Obama to fix the economy. Meanwhile, Bush left office. Job well done. Mission accomplished. Oh, the United States was unrecognizable from what it was eight years before.

It really is. It's crazy how much it changed in eight years. I was thinking how big a change is this. I kind of have to go over to our Roman series and think of Commodus. The last time we saw such a change from things going well to things going badly in one person's time

in charge. So there you go Jamie. There is W Bush. Do you know, I really hoped, because I didn't, I don't know much about him, even though I essentially grew up through my teenage years with him. I was really hoping a lot of it was hyperbole. I hoped a lot of it was, like you say, hyperbole. I don't think it's a secret where my political leanings are. Nope, you're a right-wing nationalist. We all know that. I'm trying to be fairly unbiased in this podcast, but I've made it very clear that I disagree with the policies of, say, Reagan or Daddy Bush. So I kind of thought that there was a good chance

that my opinions on Bush came from the fact that I read a lot of things that are anti-Republican. Yeah. And when I actually look into the details, I go, you know what, he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Boy, was I wrong. Yeah. If anything, it's worse than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, because I thought he was kind of intelligent, not great at speeches. That was my view of Bush the entire time. You know, the odd Bush time you know if anything it was the opposite he was really not intelligent he was actually better at speaking than his intelligence would allow you to believe yeah the fact that capacity for it is startling should we have a bushism before we go and rank him then um okay i'll Oh, absolutely. Okay, I'll give you a couple

on a theme. Oh, thank you. Foreign affairs. Let's go for foreign affairs. Okay, so this is in October of 2002, speaking about Saddam Hussein. I'll quote, I was proud the other day when both Republicans and Democrats stood with me in the Rose Garden to announce their support for a clear statement of purpose. And then talking to saddam he said you disarm or we will yeah oh that's brilliant which is nice yeah another one along the same theme our enemies are resourceful and so are we they never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people. And neither do we.

Yeah. And then I'll just give you his latest. It was very recent. 2022. He was, Bush was giving a speech talking about the situation in Ukraine. The decision of one man, talking about Putin, of course, to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean, Ukraine, Iraq too.

Anyway, I'm 75. That's brilliant. He just owned that, that's brilliant Yeah I'm old, I'm old I'm too old to be giving speeches about politics 75 Oh my goodness 75

God Can you imagine someone being president Over the age of 70 Can you imagine it Right president over the age of 70? Can you imagine it? Right. Okay, right. Well, there you go. There's the lighthearted Bushisms gone.

Let's judge this mother, shall we? Statesmanship. Okay, statesmanship. George W. Bush. Was he a good statesman? Should we give him points, Jamie? Do you want me to go through some stuff that might help yeah okay i keep forgetting what statesmanship is about okay you and bush both um okay well good he was a governor for several years that's a statesman isn't it easiest

governor position in the US. Yeah, he was governor of a state that don't do anything with their governor. Yeah. He was then president. Yep. So that's being a statesman. If we're generous, let's be generous here, he knew how to delegate. That's a good level of self-awareness, I think.

Yeah, yeah. He didn't get bogged down into the details. He went with his gut with things, but when detail was needed, he trusted other people to do the detail stuff. Yeah. Didn't he do the no child, something to do with education? No child left behind, yes.

That's the one. He mentioned it briefly last episode. That's the one. Yeah. But still, we're still in good at the moment. Oh, really? God, okay. Yeah. Okay, the? Okay. Yeah.

Okay, the only other thing I can think of is his approval rating hit roughly 90% at one point. Because of a war that wasn't needed. And, yeah, 9-11. Yeah, it was 9-11. Actually, no, I can say one more thing here. Many did say at the time that he acted like a statesman in the aftermath of 9-11.

He was a person people could look to in a time of horror and trouble and go we have a president and him delivering his speech at ground zero it brought comfort to many americans statesmanly i'm in charge don't worry kind of gotta give him that maybe yeah yeah that's one point uh okay so that's good that's all i could think of bad let's put it bluntly i said let's put it bluntly in a previous episode and when i was editing i realized i hugely sugarcoated it still so i'm just gonna put it bluntly this time the man was an idiot jamie Jamie. He really was, yeah. Yes, he failed upwardly, spectacularly throughout his life in a way that seems beyond belief. I'm sure we've all worked

with people who have been promoted just to get them out of the way. Yeah. But that's in things like a primary school. Yeah. An office. An office. A shop. A shop shop not the president of the united how did you fail up into being the president how to quote jamie old of totalis rancium in the the episode two episodes ago how did he become president uh it's a question that's stuck with me ever since jamie and uh i don't think I can fully answer it. No, which is weird. We've literally done his biography. I mean, this wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that then he was able to be shaped by the frankly awful wing of his own party that decided what the world needs was to be afraid of America. That's how we get security.'s how i got respect now i doubt any president would have come out of 9-11 without some major criticism

against them but bush managed to take the name of america and in those places where it already wasn't drag it through the mud and that's the thing, like, when it happened, America, everyone, I think most places in the world felt sorry for America. It had support. Yeah, hugely. And lost it in a finger snap. They had a moral high ground that they had been chipping away at for about 100 years, as they slowly but surely were just meddling internationally with other countries.

A lot of countries were very upset with them, hence the reason why terrorists started to attack them. But in that point, pretty much the whole world galvanised because it was truly an atrocious attack on America. It's the thing that, it defined the thousands, the two thousands. They wasted it. They could have done something with that,

but no. Yeah, they absolutely wasted it, completely, and made themselves look worse. And it wasn't about being popular and about, it's not about making themselves look good, it's just, you know,

this situation we're in, we're vulnerable now. Let's, like you said, take the moral high ground, sort it out, get everyone to work with us. Yeah, it could have been a force for good. It wouldn't have been easy, but it could have brought about some good changes. But instead, they decided to go to Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 whatsoever, and finish off his daddy's war.

This is all down to daddy issues, this whole thing. The whole thing is daddy issues. It's just hit me. It's just hit me, yeah. Because what appears to be a combination of daddy issues, incompetence, and greed, he waged a war on a country for no reason, resulting in literally hundreds of thousands of deaths. Yep, that's why when people say Bush is a war criminal, you can kind of see it. Yes, he sanctioned torture.

That's not on. I mean, if I'm being quite a little bit blunt here, what's the difference between him and Putin? Well, he struggles, because I will quote him, the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq, I mean of the Ukraine, Iraq 2. Anyway, I'm 75. So if even he himself gets confused sometimes, I understand why you've just said that.

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was just totally unjustified. It was a superpower throwing their weight around in a way that we have never seen in this podcast before. We have seen America throw its weight around before, but never to this extent and this amount of unjustification. Not a word, but you know what I mean. Anyway, what else?

Oh, yes, he seemed completely indifferent to the needs of his own citizens uh katrina was not just a bad pr disaster sometimes katrina is portrayed as oh he he handled that awfully in a pr sense yes he did but he also handled it awfully in a real sense the administration just were not interested in helping uh state out i mean they did send the federal troops in the end i'm not saying they did nothing um but four months later it wasn't four months later to be fair they they did send the troops in um but it wasn't done with the speedy sharp decisive uh way that it needed to be done uh i mean, Bush was clearly unable or unwilling to deal with it seriously because he was too busy trying to justify his war on Iraq. He was doing his speech, oh, I've got that speech later, to justify my war. The words unable or unwilling come to mind a lot

when I'm describing how he does. He was the president i thought he would be going into it he was clearly unqualified for the job and unfortunately for the world and for him he faced some of the toughest challenges we have seen any president ever face a major financial collapse a major terrorist event a major natural disaster and then the problems of his own making, which involved several wars. And he was just unable to deal with any of them. So anyway, statesmanship points. He looked good giving that speech at ground zero. Yeah, I'm going to give him half a point for that.

Are we going into half points? You know what, I'll throw him half a point as well. Just because I don't like putting half points in the final tally. So let's go for one. This is round. putting half points in the final tally. So let's go for one. Disgrace Gator. Here's his round. Well, you see, we always have this problem. Always unfair picking on the... Are we talking statesmanship or are we talking about Disgrace Gator?

Are we talking about his political or personal? It gets a bit blurry. It always has done. Maybe we should have thought about these rounds a bit more Before we started it But hey, we're near the end there So let's keep slugging on through He was a mess for the first part of his life

But I'd argue he mostly damaged himself here I mean, he obviously didn't act well He was unpleasant to be around But he was mostly damaging himself Maybe we can give him some points for that but i'm not giving huge points for it also once he sobered up once he hit around 40 he seemed to be pretty much a decent guy on a personal level i mean maybe that's something we should celebrate a bit more like being being very light on drugs and alcohol and

then overcoming that that's a massive thing. Exactly. He overcame it. Oh, he's good. He's almost an anti-Clinton in this respect. Clinton, I agreed with his policies more than I agree with Bush's policies. Awful human being. So he deserved his high disgrace gate score. Bush, absolutely useless as a politician, a president.

But personally, I'm not seeing that much to object to. I'm not saying there's nothing there. So there's that. However, like I say, this round does blend with statesmanship, and there were some of his political decisions where I would argue, well, that is because of his personal behaviour, his personal fortitude. I'm happy to put everything with the Iraq War in statesmanship. Yes. So I'm not going to count any of that for this round.

However, I'm not as happy to put the fact that he sanctioned torture under statesmanship. That is absolutely disgraceful. It's on the level of presidents owning slaves. Yes. It's torturing other human beings yeah now i appreciate it was a hard time to be president post 9-11 but that's exactly the job your job is to do the hard stuff so you should be above petty revenge and that's essentially what the torture was they

didn't get really anything valuable from the torture it was was revenge. Yeah. Torture is not a reliable means of anything. No. Other than revenge. So, always really tricky, isn't it? I am going to go... It's almost like the torture overrides him being a relatively... You could go and have a coffee with him. That overrides...

That shadows everything. It does. Torture. Guantanamo Bay. Yeah, it's really bad. Oh. But equally, it is one thing. Yes, a big thing.. Oh. But equally, it is one thing. Yes, a big thing. And it's

a big thing. It's one thing. It's hard to find lots of other things. It's not a continuous pattern throughout his life of being awful to people. I'm gonna go for minus five. I was thinking the same. So let's say minus ten. Yeah. But I am, just for the record, feeling as uncomfortable with doing this as

I did with the early presidents and slavery. So, but there we go. That's, yeah, that's where I'm landing. So how's he doing, Jamie? He's got a grand total so far of minus nine. Okay. Silver screen. This is where he might do well.

Possibly. Well, he was born into a rich family in Texas. He attended his father's school. He became a cheerleader, remember? He was awful. That'd be a great scene. Well, okay, you say this. We have had several comments of baffled Americans

that we thought this was strange. It's clearly one of these cultural things that has never occurred to me before. Apparently male cheerleaders are commons muck in America. It's just, yeah, of me before apparently male cheerleaders are commons commons muck in in america it's just yeah of course i guess you see they're the ones that catch the ones that spit in the air maybe i don't know because we don't really have cheerleaders over here we only see the very stereotypical in films kind of cheerleaders and you can guess what type they go for so yeah there you go. Anyway, he was awful at academia. He was mediocre at sport.

He was generally not great at life. Danny Bush got him a cushy job. He got him a cushy military post so he didn't have to serve in the Vietnam War. He flunked out of everything. He drinks, he parties, he's a mess. He goes to Harvard Business School. He doesn't do well.

He gets into oil. He does not do well. He meets into oil. He does not do well. He meets Laura. How did he become president? He's arrested for drunk driving. His father becomes the vice president. Now we're getting on how he becomes president. Laura has twins.

That's nice. He gives up the drink. He works on his father's campaign to become president, and his father wins. He goes back to Texas, and he just buys a baseball team. Why not? He becomes the governor, and he just buys a baseball team. Why not? He becomes the governor and then he becomes president in a very dodgy election. And then all the stuff happens. There's a lot of big stuff happens. You've got 9-11, you've got the war on terror, you've got the Iraq war, which I'm not counting, it's the same thing. You've got Katrina,

you've got the financial crisis. So you've got all of that to cover as well. Plus you can do all the internal struggles between Cheney and Rice's camp inside the White House. So you've got all of that to cover as well. Plus you can do all the internal struggles between Cheney and Rice's camp inside the White House. So there's a very brief overview. What are we thinking? I would enjoy watching that, I think. Well, fortunately for you, you kind of can because they have made a film about George Bush. It's called W or Dubya. Dubya. I watched it. Your face expression says it all. was fine it was i watched uh vice as well which i i don't know in fact i mentioned this last episode vice far better film and covers a lot of the same ground uh but it's covering cheney's life w i i don't know maybe with i don't

know maybe if different people made the film i would would have enjoyed it more. It was fine. It wasn't bad. It wasn't great. I don't know. It's the kind of story that would be fascinating just so you can keep screaming at the TV, how did he become president, I suppose. But also, I think I'm perhaps being blindsided slightly

by the fact, you know, you've got 9-11, Iraq war, Katrina, crash. A lot of big things happen. But they're sort of happening around him as well. It's not just him. They are happening around him. So that's him reacting to it. So I lived through this period. Yeah, me too.

Oh yeah, you did as well. I don't think I appreciated at the time how much was going on. Because it's sometimes hard to gauge when you're in the history happening it's like is it always like this maybe it's always like this but i i think or maybe it's still too close to really judge but i'm fairly comfortable in saying after researching all the presidents so far bush had a lot going on in his presidency he did um some of it his own doing oh yeah yeah i mean we've we've already given him points for how badly he dealt with it. I'm just pointing out, it's a lot of stuff.

So you've got a lot of stuff for Silver Screen there. But his life, is his life actually that interesting? He was an idiot drunk. No, he's a failure. Yeah. Until, like you said, he failed up. You might be able to make a sort of comedy on it, which is what W, w the film tries to do

oh no you can't make a comedy out of it's not this is my problem in the film it wasn't a comedy film but they try to almost make it like a sort of nod and a wink kind of find the humor in this and it's like you need to play it straighter uh or you needed to just not do it. Yeah. I don't know. There's a lot of interesting things happening. I don't know how much he deserves silver screen. Because what did he do in his life?

That's interesting. He... I'll give him a two. Okay. I wasn't sure I was going to go that low, but that question I just asked you really hit me hard. I might leave that pause in. Hit me. Yeah, it's like, hang on, what did he do in his life that was interesting?

Interesting things happen. Yeah, two. I'm happy with that. Okay, let's have a look at his official portrait. On the grey suit. Grey suit, blue tie. A lot of blue. Very, very democratic colours.

Yes, yeah. Very blue, like you say. I like the artistic style, though. It's much more relaxed. He looks like they're trying to portray a grandpa. Yeah, I trust sort of warm and friendly i do like i do like the fact and i think i think i've said this before as we've gone into the era where photos are available the artists seem to have relaxed a bit and gone it's okay we don't need to be photorealistic we can be more artistic i'd say this is one of the least photorealistic ones we've had since JFK's.

Wait till Obama's. Oh, that's not his official one. You're thinking the one with all the leaves. No, we don't get to use that one, which is such a shame. But we'll talk about it in his episode there. Anyway, I mean, he's in a suit. He's got that grin, that sort of happy-go-lucky smile that he usually has. Yeah.

He's holding a chair, which has got a bit of Roman imagery on there. We've not had that for a while. High five. It's got like an eagle and the laurel leaves. He's, you know, just kind of look like he's holding the chair for support, which isn't great. It doesn't look like a casual lean, does it? It looks like, oh, my legs have gotten funny.

But he's not a president you think was weak. He's not a Joe Biden. Yeah. Do you know, I kind of like it. It's quite jaunty and nice. Yeah, I quite like it. I think it is one of the stronger ones we've ever had, to be honest, which pains me to admit slightly.

Increases score, damn it. Because, yeah, the man's annoyed me, shall we say. But it is very pale. It is pale. But also the blue theme throughout is strong and distinctive. Most of them go for red. Absolute Democrat. Yeah, I like it.

I mean, it's not full marks or anything. I'd give it an eight. I'm going to give it a seven. I think it's nice, but there have been more impressive ones. But I do appreciate the style. That's why I'm giving it a half marks. Okay, then. So that is a 3.75.

Good chance it's going to get out on the minus numbers. Okay, so bonus points. Bonus! He served two full terms, so he gets two points. Well done there. No one tried to kill him. He gets no points. Election.

Right, we've got a question to ask. Because there was me thinking this was all done, dusted and sorted. But here we are right at the end and something's been thrown into the works. Right, we've always said if you get a landslide as an average for both elections, you get two. If you win, you get one. You get zero if you lose the popular vote. But Bush lost the popular vote,

but then won his second one normally. Ooh, skin one then. Average it out. No, no, no, no. He would only ever get one. He'd never have two. So, is it, if you Average it out. No, no, no, no. He would only ever get one. He'd never have two. So, is it, if you lose the popular vote at all, you automatically get none just for the shame of losing the popular vote, which is what I think we started off as. To be fair, the controversy surrounding the first election,

I think, yeah. Like, down for districts and, like, moaning and bitching to the judges. I think nothing. No, I don't think he deserves it. He scraped through the second one, to be honest. Losing the popular vote and essentially the Supreme Court just handing it to you. I think that tarnishes the second one. I agree with you then.

I just want it to be open. So let's say zero. So that is zero for election. That gives us his final score. Do you want to know what it is jamie yeah president bush scores 0.75 he scrapes into the positive numbers mostly because we liked the painting i'm almost disappointed yeah um he beats nixon nixon who scored the very amusing zero remember yeah um yeah uh but 0.75 certainly puts him near the bottom the only presidents worse than him at the moment according to us are nixon johnson as in andrew john James Buchanan, and John Tyler. So, it's a question to be asked.

I mean, it can be asked. American or American? Just, no. No, he can do one. Absolutely not. He was awful. Absolutely awful, President. Nope.

No, this is why nepotism should not be the basis for your political system, America. I would rather give you American, and you've never been president. Yeah. Bush. Wow. I mean, it's honestly, it's so much worse than I thought it was going to be.

But hey, there you go. Right, well, there we go. We've done it. We've done Bush. Yes. We've done Bush, Jamie. We've only got two more to do. Obama, Obama, and then someone else who I can't quite recall at the moment.

Welcome to mind. I'm just going to say it right off the bat, just to get expectations right. The next two episodes, as in the next two presidents, are going to be by far the hardest for me to put together. Yeah. Because no one's written any bloody books about them. Ah, it's Wikipedia, isn't it, Rob? Well, you've got all the immediate sort of scandal books that are produced at the time. But no one's written any like decent history books about them.

So it makes putting things together so much harder. So I don't know. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here, apart from it's going to be tough for me. So have some sympathy. But Obama is next. Obama will be coming up shortly. No idea. Two episodes, three episodes. Obama will be coming up shortly. No idea. Two episodes, three episodes, we will see.

It'll be interesting how he somehow match up the fact who's born in Kenya to being president. That'll be the interesting one, I think. But it's quite how he managed to cover all of that up. I mean, that's what I'll be going into all the details on his early life, definitely. No, him being born in Kenya, coming to America when he was five years old with nothing but a cream suit. I'll be covering all of that.

Put his leg up on the table. I mean, what an animal. Had a selfie stick once, don't you know? Anyway, all of this is for the next episode. It is not for now. Right. Okay. Well, thank you very much for listening.

Thank you for downloading us wherever you do download us. We really appreciate it. And thank you very much for anyone that's part of our patron. That does allow the podcast to continue and allows Rob to buy stuff so I can force him to write episodes. Yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Right.

Cheers then. One more Bushism for the road. Yeah. Okay. We finish on the final Bushism just three words they miss underestimated me bush november 2000 goodbye goodbye So I can assure people that as your president, I'm very aware of the seriousness of this storm. Currently, it is raining cats and... Hello. Hello, Bush. It's your voice here. It's your internal monologue.

Well, Bush, you've hit the landing with cats, but what animal's going to come next? What weird thing are you going to say? You're a terrible president. Everyone hates you. Everyone's laughing at you. No one likes you. That's just the way it is

Look at where you are You were told three weeks ago that a hurricane's gonna hit here And you're here Four days later Four days Just think Think of how much they're all going to hate you They're going to mock you

They're going to mock you. They're going to laugh at you. Just like your daddy hates you as well. You know he hates you. He's always hated you. You're an idiot. You're an idiot. How did you get into school? Oh, it was daddy. He's still controlling you. It'll never work. But don't worry. I have an idea. Iraq.

Iraq. Iraq. Iraq. Daddy won't hate you if you could do something that he never could do. You could invade Iraq. Iraq. Iraq. Invade Iraq Cats and armadillos

Armadillos? It's cats and dogs you What the hell's wrong with you? Even your internal voice is ashamed of being in your own head What a Oh f*** Back to Texas. F***.