American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 44.2 Barack Obama

Episode Date: March 23, 2024

Last time we saw Obama's background and how he succumbed to the political life. This time we look into the political life right up until he becomes president. How does he do? Find out!

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, Rack-A-Bar Part 2. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Biden. And this is episode 44.2. It's the second part of Barack Obama. What a guy. Well, what did you think of him last time? Yeah, it's alright. Just seemed like a go-getter. Just seemed like a

like a guy getting on with his life really doesn't he normal guy sad sad parenting though yeah yeah um it's interesting about one of our listeners uh said on our discord that it seems like a boring person living an interesting life which that's probably very true actually yeah it seems slightly harsh but also yeah i can see where I'm coming from. Sorry, I can't remember who said that. I should give credit, but I can't remember. You know who you are. Pat yourself on your back.

Anyway, right. Let's do this. Let's have an opening, shall we? Okay, we're going to do the introduction, but we messed it up slightly. Well, I messed it up. It's all me. It's not Jamie. It's not you, is it, Jamie? For once. No. One of our listeners, Doc Martin, one of our listeners for a very long time, actually contacted me through our Discord and said,

Hey, Rob, I've got an intro for one of Obama's episodes. And it was a really cool intro because it was going to really make Jamie excited. And for whatever reason, I just completely forgot about it. So we've already recorded the episode. This is two days later. So we are going to put it back in the episode now. We're going to have the introduction. But it does mean the surprise is not going to surprise Jamie. He's going to act surprised though yes yeah i did i did a level drama you know so

yeah it's great okay so open on this scene jamie you ready right i'm ready i'm ready i'm graced okay there is a whole bunch not my words but not doc martin's words a whole bunch of cool renaissance art and sculptures in a workshop have you got that yeah yeah okay hand to a woman with with shoulder length brown hair in a mostly black jacket and pants with red across her shoulders on the jacket you don't know who this is jamie do you haven't got a clue because i've not already spoiled it for you who could it be all right no you? I haven't got a clue because I've not already spoilt it for you. Who could it be? I don't know. No, you don't know. Okay. She's talking to a stunning blonde woman

wearing an impossibly tight grey bodysuit with a little bit of metal around her eye. Oh! Do you think you would have got it at this point? Yeah. Yeah. The former woman is none other than Captain Janeway of the USS Voyager,

and the latter is Seven of Nine, Jamie. What am I talking about here? You are, they are, it's the episode where they're in the holodeck in Da Vinci's workshop. Nice, okay. And it's the one where, it might be the one where Janeway's trying to teach Seven how to sculpt. Okay.

And she finds it a futile activity. Fair enough. Okay, right. Okay. They are. I've just read the next bit. You're right. This is Da Vinci's workshop they're in.

Yes. Star Trek sounds fun. I'm so cool. You are so cool. Anyway, Janeway is explaining to Seven of Nine about the benefits of relaxing and how she could find a hobby now she's free from the Borg's control.

But, but, here's the twist that uh listener doc martin's put in here while seven is molding the clay she presses too hard and squeezes the nose off that's yeah that's true i think director yells but jerry what was that seven of nines actress jerry ryan says sorry the sculpture kind of reminds me of Jack. And the director cuts in, Jerry, I know you've gone through a tough spot with your husband and his career's probably not what you wanted, but this is the fourth clay figure you've broken

and your hands are getting dirty from the clay. How about we take 20? Clean up. And you can tell me what's on your mind, okay? And then, uh, Pan, Pan to to the right this is my little addition at the end and go to another clay figure just it just keeps sweeping past other clay figures they all look different they're all different clay figures in the shop uh one is of uh lionel richie and then and then it goes and there's one of barack ob. And it just comes up on the screen, Barack Obama, part two. That was so much better than your intro.

Oh, no one needs to ever hear my intro. It was a really bad one. I couldn't think of anything, which is ridiculous, because I had this one lined up for about two months, and I was just going about it. Now, you actually know why this is in here, because we've already recorded the episode. But listeners probably don't.

So it's still a surprise for everyone else. Anyway, I'm going to pass it back to us from two days ago now. Enjoy the episode everyone. Say hi to Past Us from us. Oh and don't tell them about that thing that's going to happen tomorrow

for them or yesterday for us. It hurts but it's got to be done. It's got to be done. Right. Okay then got to be done. Right. Okay, then. Bye. Bye.

We left Obama winning the seat on the Illinois State Senate, did we not? Yes. Yes, we did. And if you remember, this was due to him managing to get his opponent, the very popular Palmer, kicked off on a technicality. Oh yeah. Yeah, he was going to lose. He managed to get Palmer kicked off. He wins.

Hooray. Immediately, as he feared, there was kickback. Palmer was popular, especially in the poor black communities, the very ones that Obama had been working with in previous years. And many were very unhappy that this young hotshot had kicked their woman out. Oh, Palmer was a woman?

Yes. Oh, I assumed it was a man. Of course, I assumed that. No, no, that wasn't. I've forgotten to write her first name here. Alice? I'm going to guess Alice. I'm going to make a brave attempt at Alice. I'm forgotten to write her first name here. Alice? I'm going to guess Alice. I'm going to make a brave attempt at Alice. I'm going to look it up. Anne. Claire. Beatrice. I'm hedging my bets. I'm saying most names. Sandra. Felicity. Oh, what did I say? I've already forgotten what I said. Oh, I can't remember. Not Anne. Oh, Claire, that was me. I honestly can't remember what I said. What's her name?

Her name is Alice. You said Alice? You did say Alice. Did I say Alice? Excellent. Yes, you did. My memory is working, and if that's not true, when I'm editing back, I will edit in just an Alice, and it will be fine. It's all good.

Yes, it was Alice Palmer. She was very, very popular. But she didn't get her seat. And remember, she had the seat before. She tried to get into the National Senate. She failed. She wanted her seat back. Obama ruined her chances, and many people were annoyed.

They wanted Palmer back because they liked her, and they didn't know who this Obama kid was, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, they were annoyed at the underhand tactics. Now, the better people who were annoyed with Obama were simply just annoyed at the underhand tactics, which is understandable. The worst people who didn't like the fact

that Obama had just won the seat, they were muttering about how a half-white man had ruined the career of a black state senator, which is less than ideal. No. Anyway, other Democrats in Chicago were also not happy with him. When defending one of his very first bills in the state senate, Obama was questioned by another senator.

This was a man called Henderson. And Henderson held nothing back. I'm just going to quote him. It's a bit of a chunky quote. I remember a lovely senator by the name of Palmer. Much easier to pronounce than Obama. Ooh. She always had cookies and nice things to say

and you don't have anything to give us around your desk. How do you expect to get votes? You don't even wear nice perfume like Palmer did. What? I'm missing Senator Palmer because of these weak replacements with tired bills that make absolutely no sense. I definitely

urge a no vote, whatever your name is. That's really weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like the way you smell. It's really weird, isn't it? I was reading around this quite a bit. Apparently it's like a bit of an initiation into the state senate

is how I could have read it. Was this like gentle jibing, the kind of thing that people say when they start, but you get the sense that they just didn't like Obama, and it's just weird. It's weird, and also going after his name, and yeah. So Obama wasn't happy with that, as you can imagine. He was also soon facing problems because of his book.

Oh, yeah. He'd recently, relatively recently published his book and the other senators had read it. And they now saw a privileged pot smoking kid who was handed a Harvard education and who was, in many of their eyes, not black enough. Yeah. One senator asked him if he'd figured out what race he belonged to yet.

Out. Yeah. Another incident which had nothing to do with race, you'll be pleased to know about this one, it was temperature. I'll quote one senator, why he didn't like Obama. On the south side, as in Chicago it's 20 below zero in Hawaii it's 80 degrees

and he's supposedly roughing it so he grew up in Hawaii how would he understand what hardship is which you kind of you can get, but also people can have a rough time in a warm country, that is possible when they say Hawaii's 80 degrees, I mean, that would kill everyone.

But weird temperatures. They use weird temperatures in America, don't they? Oh, there's the Fahrenheit, don't they? Yes, where you divide the atom's wavelength by the day of the week and split it between you and your friends and then play rock paper scissors and then whoever gets it first claims that's zero something like that i can never quite remember it's just weird it is 32 is freeze ass ridiculous yeah it's just weird anyway i hope 80 is right by

the way because i'm reading my notes and it just says 8 dash. So I obviously did a typo, and I'm guessing I meant to say 80, but I don't know Fahrenheit. So if that is way off... Well, 100 degrees is like high 30s, like 39. Yeah, America, they complain when it hits the 100s. I don't know. It's hot is what I'm trying to say. I've made a typo. So, yeah. All right. Yeah. I've made a typo. I'll rephrase it.

On the south side, it's cold. In Hawaii, it's hot. And he's supposedly roughing it. That's roughly what was said. Nice. No one's going to notice. If only you could do that whilst writing dissertations. Oh, it'd be great, yeah.

It would be great. Thisist liquid is well hot. Yeah. What I'm trying to say here is Obama did not get a warm welcome into the State Senate. There was definitely a faction of Democrats who really resented him being there and let him know it. Not only was he facing a hostile political

clique, he was also finding out that there was a reason why politicians were never able to solve all the problems that he had faced as a community organiser. On the outside, it all seems so obvious. Come on, politicians, just sign it and then we can get stuff done. Yeah, easy. But on the inside, he was face to face with all the bureaucracy and the party politics, and he realised that it wasn't going to be as simple as that. He was not going to be able to make a significant change. He is a brand new junior set state senator. But he made all those promises.

He made all those promises. It did not help that the Illinois State Senate was Republican at this time. And as a Democrat, he had very little power indeed. Now, as ever, stories tend to dry up when people join the Senate. And for time reasons, I'm not going to go through all the bills and committees he was involved in. Good, thank you. Yes. We all appreciate that.

But highlights. Early on, he worked on a bill in regards to the Illinois welfare program. And he also worked on a bill that adapted the tax credits for working people. He was, in the early days, apparently too long-winded and idealistic. That's still a common... people say he does tend to talk quite a lot. Yes, yeah. And when Obama talks, with all his pauses, it makes it even longer. Yeah. Yeah, he hadn't really got the hang of the idea that if he wanted to propose something in the Senate, he had to give something up.

However, he soon adapted, and as we have seen many times before, he was able to get on well with people in his party, at least the ones that weren't bent out of shape due to the Palmer incident, but he was also able to get on fairly well with the Republicans as well. We saw this when he was at Harvard, we saw this when he was in high school. He just gets on with everyone. We saw this when he was at Harvard, we saw this when he was in high school. He just gets on with everyone. The more comfortable he became working across the factions, the less he cared about that really tricky Democrat faction who hated him. Because he realized it was just a faction. This is not gonna harm his career,

he just needed to ride it out. It was a tricky start, but he gets over it. Anyway, when it wasn't working in the Senate, he wrote a column for the Hyde Park Herald about current affairs. He's still doing work for the University of Isla firm as well, by the way, on the side, just bits. But he's writing a column now. He commuted from Chicago

to the state capital of Illinois, which is Springfield. And in this time he made calls, he listened to music, he listened to books on tape. Apparently he found that time, he made calls, he listened to music, he listened to books on tape. Apparently, he found that time quite enjoyable, which I can relate to. I really thought commuting was going to be horrible when I started a big commute, but no, time for yourself. You get to listen to things. It's all good. All in all, he settled in, and by 98, he was up for re-election. And he was unopposed on the Democratic side, which is nice. And he happened to be in a heavily

Democratic area, so essentially he walked into office once more, which is nice. Now term times are weird in Illinois. In one decade, you do two four-year terms and one two-year term, which I've never come across that before, which just seems really strange. So he'd

just done his two-year term, which is why he had to do a re-election quite quickly, but he's now got four years, so he's not going to have to worry about re-election for a while. Okay. He's safe till 2002, which is what I'm trying to say. However, he'd already given up. Oh.

He hated being state senator by this point. He wasn't getting done what he wanted to do. It was not the job he hoped it would be. He was mostly bored and found the somewhat juvenile atmosphere of party bickering in Springfield to be frustrating. So you might be wondering, why did he just get re-elected? Yeah, why did he just get re-elected, Rob? Well, what do you think, Jamie? He wants the big P. He wants, well, he wants something bigger. Might not be the big P just yet, but yes, it is a stepping stone. He had his sights on Washington, so he just needed to get through this part so he could progress.

Now, we're in 1999 here, and there was a seat in the National Congress coming up in the year 2000. So Obama started to seriously think about going for this but there was a problem the incumbent was a democrat called Bobby Rush and Rush was going for the seat so it's not like anyone was stepping down and it's very hard to dislodge a seated senator unless they've done something really bad but Obama's thinking

I really hate being a state senator so maybe I should try it he starts talking to those around him. He starts talking to family and friends and colleagues. And they were all of the same opinion. Don't do this, Obama. Don't do it. You will lose.

This is stupid. In fact, I'll quote one friend. I thought it was a terrible idea. Excellent. This was a friend from his project Vote Days, if you remember, when he was organising getting voting registration up. Yeah, I mean, there was a very obvious problem. He just wasn't a big enough name.

He'd started to make a name for himself in Chicago and Illinois, but he certainly wasn't, like, a big, big name. No. Michelle was hugely against this. Remember, Michelle's never been keen on any of these political moves. She was working at the University of Chicago at this time on community relation projects, and she was open with her friends about her and Barack at this point. His work in politics was putting a strain on their marriage. He was spending a lot of time

working for the state senate. He was clearly not enjoying himself. She was very unhappy, therefore, when her husband told her, against all advice, that he was definitely going to run. Quote from Michelle, which is a big, long scream. Yeah, I mean, it takes something when literally everyone around you, all your loved ones are saying, don't do something, and you go, I'm going to do it, though, aren't I? It's just belligerence, yeah. Yeah. And you go, I'm going to do it though, aren't I? It's just belligerence.

Yeah. So why didn't Michelle want him to do it? Well, she didn't want to move to Washington for the start. As in, she was not going to move to Washington. That's just a fact. My life is here. I will never move to Washington in my entire life, ever, ever, ever. So strike me down if true.

Well, I mean, if he got it and he had to move to Washington, what would that mean for their marriage? Long distance relationship? Is that what they wanted? Anyway, this question was put on hold because Obama had decided that he wanted the seat and he wasn't going to stop until he got it.

So we'll have to figure that out after I get elected is essentially what happened there. As you can imagine, the relationship isn't perfect at this point, to say the least. Anyway, he starts to campaign. Michelle mostly refused to help this time around. She'd helped with the state senate race, but this time, no, just leave me out of it.

Anyway, he's up against Rush, as I say. Rush is a big name in Chicago politics. Being older, he has been part of the civil rights movement being one of the founders of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panthers oh okay so we have like a real

died in the roots kind of member of the civil rights movement here I don't know much about the Black Panthers in my head they're militant but I don't know if that's a Panthers. In my head, they're militant. I don't know if that's a misinterpretation. They were certainly more militant than other groups that were working in the civil rights movement. And you could argue that some of their actions

were detrimental to the civil rights movement, but you can also argue that they pushed it forward. It's a very big debate to have. We certainly don't have time to get into it now. But yes, they're definitely a more militant wing of the civil rights movement, that's for sure. But where we are in Chicago, being one of the founding members of the Black Panthers

in the area would be seen as a very positive thing. Lots of people liked Rush for this. Rush was surprised that this young half-white guy was running against him and was openly disparaging of Obama's community work, saying that it was like going on a gap year compared to what he had done with the Black Panthers. What is this? This is nothing. Again, the issue of race comes up,

with many saying it's nothing to do with race or anything to do with the fact that he's half white far too often. That was said just a little bit too often. Yeah. It was said usually just before people said I just don't and then said something along the lines of

like the guy, don't trust the guy, don't understand why he wants to run. But it's nothing to do with race. No. He's really trapped in the middle, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, he is. Obama, very frustrated by this. According to those who ran his campaign, the problem was obvious.

No one's saying this in front of cameras, apparently. But they were saying it in the streets to his advisors when they were going around and talking to them, that Obama was sent by the white man. He's not really one of us. He's an outsider trying to get in.

Oh. Yeah. So that's going to be a problem. Yeah. Then Rush's son was murdered in a shooting. Oh. Yeah. Now, Rush's background meant that he had seen many people close to him shot,

but Rush was determined to keep going. I mean, he'd gone through all the stuff he had in his youth. He wasn't going to stop now. I think he said at one point that he was shocked because he was the one who was supposed to die before he was 30, not his son. Yeah, so he announced his re-election campaign three days after his son's funeral.

He was not going to let this slump down. I mean, this is going to sound very cold, but that's going to be a poll booster. Oh, well, then his father died. Oh. Yeah. Which, again, tragic and horrible. No, no, not this time. Yeah, horrible, tragic, but like you say, in a very cold way, an election booster.

Yeah, there was an inpouring of public support, as you can imagine. Obama would have found it very hard, if not impossible, to beat Rush anyway. His friends, family and advisors were right. Don't do this, you can't win. But then this happened. Well, it's now impossible. There's no way. No.

And then a third candidate threw their hat into the ring and that's it. It's just no point anymore. Obama no longer stands a chance. He actually did reasonably well, considering how stacked against it was. He got 30% of the vote, Rush got 60, and the other guy got 10. So,

could have been worse, but absolutely crushed. In Obama's own words, he was mortified and humiliated. He genuinely thought he had a chance here. He was the only one who couldn't see it. Yeah. And it had really got to him that he was seen as part of the white elite class rather than the black community that he now saw as his home. He'd been searching for a community to accept him all his life. He finally found it in Chicago, and this was proof to him that he was always seen as an outsider.

So, things not going well for Obama at this time, and things were no better at home. By this time, he and Michelle had their first child, called Malia, which is nice, but other things were less happy. Michelle was fed up of Barack getting wrapped up in his pipe dream of Washington. She put her foot down after the election and told Barack that he was going to start pulling his weight around the house, damn it.

Oh. Yes. He was given a clear list of things that he would now be doing, involving basic things like doing the grocery shopping every now and again, picking Marley up from daycare, things like that. He had just been neglecting that side of his life completely and Michelle turned around and went, no more. Do it. Fair enough.

Yes. Which, according to friends, Barack did do. So that's good. But he certainly needed that stern reminder at this time. He thought very hard about giving up in politics at this point. This isn't working. He could very easily get a high-paid job with his connections, as we've seen. But despite how

awful he felt at this time, he just couldn't give up the dream. He wanted to get into national politics. So when Michelle demanded that he tell her what he saw for their future, he told her, and I quote, I'm going to run one more time.

Read the room. Yeah. Just one more. One more time, and, I'm going to run one more time. Oh, read the room. Just one more. One more time and then I'm out. Okay. And to be fair, this time his friends and his advisors had some more suggestions for him. Yes, he had lost to Rush, but it hadn't been a waste because they had learned some things. Yeah. They had learned that Rush had appealed to the average black voter.

And as much as Obama wanted to, he could not beat Rush in that area. However, next time, they suggested, why don't you lean into this apparent weakness? The problem that the Rushes have in a state like Illinois was getting the white vote, and Obama's advisors thought that Obama actually might have a chance here. Now, Illinois, I don't know if you know Illinois very well, but north of Illinois, you're hitting the Great Lakes. You're at Chicago. Oh, okay.

Yeah? South Illinois, if you go right down to the south, you're starting to hit places like Kentucky. Ah, oh. You're starting to hit places that are a bit more south. So as much as I know when I think of Illinois, I think Chicago, I'm thinking up North Great Lakes. But yeah, the southern border of Illinois, you're essentially in the South. So you've got a wide range of people living in Illinois.

And people like Rush were always going to struggle to get votes from the people living in the South of the state. to get votes from the people living in the south of the state. Whereas Obama and his advisers have been doing tours of the state recently, trying to drum up support for him. And they thought, actually, we've got a chance of getting more votes from a wider area rather than concentrating on inner city areas in Chicago. So that's our way forward, they thought. So, like I say, Obama started to tour the state with a friend and advisor. They pulled together a sense of what strategy would be next time.

Michelle, around this time, gives birth to their second daughter, Sasha. Oh. Which is nice. So life continues. And then, once in the morning, as he was driving to a state legislative hearing in downtown Chicago, he heard on his car radio that a plane had hit one of the Twin Towers in New York. Yes.

He arrives at the meeting and he heads inside. Just as it was about to start, the second plane hits. Everyone realises that this is an attack and the meeting is cancelled. I'll quote him here. People gathered in the streets in Chicago, looking up at the sky and the meeting is cancelled. I'll quote him here. People gathered in the streets in Chicago, looking up at the sky and the Sears Tower, transformed from a workplace

into a target. Yeah. It's not an image I've ever really thought about. People in all the other cities in America just looking up at their skyscrapers. Anyway, Obama rushes to his office in the law firm that he was still a part of, and it happened to be close because he knows people there.

There he and the others in the firm just sat in silence as the news unfolded on the TV screens in the office. After a few hours, he heads home. Sasha was struggling to sleep. She's very young at this time. And him and Michelle were taking shifts to go through the night, and it was his shift. So he spent most of the night rocking Sasha, trying to get her to sleep whilst watching all the news destruction and all speculation on TV. Trying to get a sense of the event,

he wrote a column for the Herald. It was three paragraphs. The first paragraph talked about the need to step up security in America. The second paragraph starts with, and I quote, we must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the source of such madness. Yeah. He goes on to say that the attack was a display of a lack of empathy on behalf of the attackers. And I'll quote here. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, And I'll quote here. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty, ignorance, helplessness, and despair.

And then the final paragraph talks about how the United States needs to be better abroad to ensure that nothing like this happens again. Interesting take. Well, this was an unusual response at the time. One that most would come to eventually, because it's very mild-mannered. Yes, we need to be more secure, but we also need to take a look at ourselves as well. However, very few people, understandably, were thinking that in the days after the attacks. Most politicians were not so cool-headed or reflective, that's for sure.

So it's interesting to show his initial response. Anyway, Obama carries on with his job, waiting for his last opportunity. Remember, he's going to run one more time. He's got one more chance. So he spends most of his time networking and preparing any rifts with people after the last election. Elections get messy. You've burned some bridges. You've got to try and build them again afterwards.

So that's what he's doing. He was re-elected in 2002, unopposed, still waiting for his moment. He becomes the chair of the Health and Human Services Committee. Exciting stuff. Sounds great, yeah. Yeah, the Democrats had finally held a majority in the Senate,

so he was actually getting some stuff done for a change, which cheered him up a little bit, but it's still not what he wants to be doing. Various bills he worked on, but the most public one, the most well-known one, was that he made sure that all police interrogations were videotaped. That's important.

That is very important. I can't believe that they weren't, and it's 2002. But hey, there you go. Anyway, his next, and according to his promise, last chance to get into national politics then comes up. In 2004, a seat was going to be up for grabs in the National Senate. The Republican incumbent and Democratic predecessor

were not going to go for it. So the two main challengers were both dropping out. So this meant it was completely open. Right. No one was going to go for that job with name recognition. And a Democrat or a Republican could get it. So this is a big chance. He's not going to get a better chance.

So to begin with, he tried to convince his friends and family and advisors, this is it. This is my last roll of the die. They were all against it. No, no, now's not the time to go. Definitely not. Michelle and one of their friends even set up an intervention.

They ambushed him one day. Seriously, Obama. You've got to stop now. Too many elections. Obama's there just rocking backwards and forwards. Just one more. Just one more. Just one more election. I could quit whenever I

want to. I just need one more. I'll quote the friend of the Obamas here. We were all against him. We thought it was the biggest mistake of his career and he shouldn't do it. His chief advisor with the glorious name of David Axelrod.

Oh. Who's called Axelrod? That is wonderful. Where has that name come from? It's amazing. That is just stupendous. I want to know the origins of the surname Axelrod. Is it like... Maybe someone used to fix a wagon

or something. Jim Baker and... I don't know. George Fletcher. Yeah. And... Tom Sleater. David Axelrod.

That is fantastic. They're all choosing their names, and he just looks up holding a massive axle. Call me Axelrod. Yeah. I can only imagine David Axelrod is like, looks like he's from Greece. He's got the leather coat.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Got sunglasses. He says toots and stuff like that. Yes. Hey toots. I'm not sure how much I mentioned David Axelrod again, but he is in the story throughout.

He is Obama's chief advisor pretty much throughout. So just imagine a guy from Greece just walking around, like double finger pointing at Obama every now and again. Hey, Obama! Yeah, exactly. David Axelrod told Obama that if he lost this race after losing to Rush, then his career would be over. You can't lose two races.

That just means you're a loser. And this is not a good race to run in. You might have thought it was, but it's not if you stop and think about it, because the Democratic field is massive. Even if you win the primary, it's going to be tough to win the general. Don't go for it.

Please don't go for it. Eee. Obama listened. You'll be pleased to know. He listened very carefully, very intently, nodded his head a lot, and then, and this is in the intervention by the way, so he's surrounded by his friends and family, and then he calmly

and simply told them why they were all wrong, and why he was going to run anyway. He had learnt his mistakes, he claimed. He had networked, and Yeah. lost, but bluntly told her that he needed her to win and could not do it without her. And I quote, I'm not afraid to fail and you shouldn't be afraid to fail. So why don't you step up and decide you're going to help me raise some money? Because that's the one part I haven't figured out. Now, apparently Obama's performance in this intervention was so convincing that by the end of it, most of them had agreed to help him campaign. Barack, Barack! Barack!

I mean, that's a positive sign, isn't it? Like, everyone's staging an intervention. Can you imagine if everyone's like, you've just been drinking too much recently, and then cuts to half an hour later and everyone's doing shots. Yeah. It sounds a bit cultish, doesn't it, really? Possibly, yeah. I i mean it's charisma he managed to convince people i imagine they all left the

intervention they're all driving home and about halfway through a bunch of them went hang on leaflets in hand they're posting through boxes what? They look down, they're wearing that iconic Hope t-shirt. Yes. That's when it was first created in this intervention meeting. So I'm like, what is this? Why am I wearing it? What the hell did this happen? There was one person who he hadn't quite

got through to, though. I'm guessing Michelle. Yeah, she's still not convinced, for a very good reason. They can't afford it. She knows they can't afford it. I mean, they're certainly comfortable, but they're not we can afford to keep campaigning rich. Yeah. Barack reassured her, however.

No, don't worry. I'm going to raise some more money. I've got it figured out by writing another book. Oh, brilliant. Michelle was not convinced. So what's this one going to be about, Barack? You've already done your autobiography, and it wasn't that long ago.

So what, are you going to write the sequel? No one wants another biography from you, Barack. Come on. It's only five years ago. Nothing's changed. Well, it is determined. He was determined. So he goes for it. He is up against a lot of democrats but two were seen as more likely to win than he was at the start this was hull and heinz now heinz was an illinois career politician he had the name recognition none of them were massive names but if anyone was a name in this race it was was Hines. Right. And then you had Hull. Hull was interesting. He was an anti- politician. He was

not part of the system. Right. Not part of the swamp. He was from California and he was a probability enthusiast. What do you think a probability enthusiast does? They work out the probability of things? It's a bit like game theory. Well, he and friends in the 70s

created a system using probability to beat Blackjack and make money. Oh, it was like card counting kind of thing. And it worked. Ooh. They made money before being banned from the casinos. Yeah. So he had a pot of money and he used this money to start a computer firm. This computer firm he sold to Goldman Sachs in 1999 for $340 million.

So from doing some maths and doing a bit of clever investing, he was a multi-millionaire. What a nerd. What a nerd. In Illinois, there was no limit for spending on campaigns, and he figured, even though he was an outsider, no one knew who he was, he could essentially throw money at this seat and buy it. Up against a well-liked, well-known politician, and a man spitting out probability theory, where does Obama fit into this? Well, Obama, like I say, had worked out what he was going to be. He was going to be the positive candidate.

Okay. No longer was he going to try and champion the plight of the inner-city, poor, black person. Instead, he was going to be the unifying, positive future person. It was a different... You don't get that nowadays. You don't get that nowadays.

Or ever. That's because sometimes you just come across as a bit wishy-washy and a bit hippie-ish, and no one really takes you seriously. It's a dangerous one to do, but that's what he's decided to go for. He had a new campaign slogan created by his team. It was, yes, we can. Original. Can we change America?

Yes, we can. Can we change Washington? Yes, we can. Obama heard this andica yes we can can we change washington yes we can obama heard this and went no that sounds awful yeah it's benign yes we can i mean that sounds like bob the builder um a reference americans probably don't get unless they get bob the builder over there i've got no idea. Anyway, yeah. So Obama, he wasn't convinced. However, his team and Michelle convinced him, no, this will work.

It's short, it's catchy, it's positive. Let's roll with it. So Obama goes, okay, let's do it. And he was, as the campaigns carries on, becoming more and more popular. Hull and Hines start to take notice. Enough to start digging for dirt on Obama Hull in particular

had a lot of money to burn so he threw money at trying to dig up dirt on the opponent but to their frustration there was nothing the guy was clean damn it he just seemed like a nice guy where's the skeletons

he needs skeletons. We've all got skeletons. Where's the skeletons? Hull's team thought about attacking how liberal he was. This was an idea from Hull. He seems quite liberal. Can we attack him for being liberal? But one of his advisors pointed out,

no, Hull, you've decided to run as a Democrat. I mean, Hull didn't care what he was running for. He just wanted the seat. He chose him to be a Democrat. Probably stuck a pin in something or flipped a coin. Yeah. So his advisor pointed out, no, no, you're supposed to be a Democrat. Attacking him for being too liberal is not going to work that well.

People kind of like that in this party. It's not going to work. So that was that line of attack gone. Still, the campaign goes on. Hull's campaign is working. Throwing's not going to work. So that was that line of attack gone. Still, the campaign goes on. Hull's campaign is working. Throwing money at it does work, it turns out. He was unknown to begin with, but the amount of money on advertising

got his name recognition up. People started to recognise his face. And the press, excited by this strange aberration in Illinois politics, gleefully followed him around. He's unusual. He's a bit of a nerd. He's got lots of money. He's not the normal politician. Look, he's slightly different.

Let's give him lots and lots of press. Hope it doesn't end up biting us in the arse, said the press. Hines, to his bafflement, was ignored. He was the most popular, but he was also the most boring, so the press were just ignoring him. But he invented beans!

Yes, he did. Obama was still too small, so Hull's numbers were surging. But, unlike Obama, Hull did have skeletons in his past. The Heinz team were the ones to uncover the fact that Hull's divorce had been

messy, with his ex-wife getting a restraining order due to abuse. Now, Hull's divorce had to be messy with his ex-wife getting a restraining order due to abuse. Now, Hull was keeping his divorce papers sealed legally, but it was known about and people were talking about it, speculating about what could be in there. So no one knew for sure, but by this point people were starting to spread rumours about what happened in his divorce. Meanwhile, Obama's numbers start to slowly grow as the press moved on to another person who would sell papers more than the bigger name of Hines.

So it turns out this Hall guy might be a bit dodgy. Let's, who's this Obama guy? Let's talk about him for a bit. Still, the race was now very close. Obama's catching up with Hall. Hines is somewhere behind them. And then the divorce papers were unsealed, as the ex-wife allowed it to be unsealed.

And it turned out that Hull had not just divorced his wife, he had threatened to kill her. A detailed description of him leaning over her while she was in the bed, saying, and I quote, Do you want to die? I'm going to kill you, you dumb bleep, came out. Oh. Turns out Hull was not a nice man. No.

Not a nice man at all. This, by the way, was back in the days where threatening to kill people could, you know, actually harm your career in politics. Oh, yeah, I remember those days. But again, I digress. Anyway, the Obama team timed it perfectly. As Hull's campaign imploded,

they released all of their ads that they'd been holding on to. So it was almost as if, oh, that Hull guy who looked interesting turns out to be a wrong'un. Well, don't worry, here's Obama. No skeletons in his pocket. Pocket? Closet? Either. There's just no skeletons.

And look at his cheeky little smile. Yeah. The public suddenly saw him as the up-and-coming Democrat. And he was, because the numbers rose and rose, and eventually he won with more than Heinz and Hull combined. Wow. This is what marked Obama as a true rising star. It is at this point where everyone in the party goes,

ooh, who's this guy? He's shiny. Yeah, it was decided to very quickly republish Dreams from My Father. Strike while the iron's hot, we'll get some money for this. Yeah. Thanks to the Obamas. After all,

Michelle was getting very annoyed by all this. Oh, okay, some money, finally some money. This will be helpful. But this is only the primary, remember? He's not got the seat yet. No. No, he now needs to campaign against the Republican candidate. But I'm going to skim over this a little bit,

because he was up against, to begin with, the Republican candidate Jack Ryan. But Ryan's campaign hit problems when it turned out that he also had a problematic past. Oh. Because his ex-wife had divorced him after he had pressured her several times to perform sexual acts in public orgies in various cities.

Wow. Yeah. One time he had tricked her into going to a club that turned out to be a sex club, which hugely upset her, and when she became upset, he told her that she was being a turn-off. He sounds lovely. This is all very depressing, yet another case

of a male politician just being a bleep. Yep. But to be honest, I probably would have skimmed over that because it's not hugely relevant to our story if it wasn't for one huge reason that I knew you'd be very interested in. Because you know the wife. Do you want to guess?

There is no chance of me guessing the wife. Mrs. Ryan. Seven of nine. Jerry Ryan? Yep. Oh my goodness, really? Yep. I happen to know you're a bit of a fan of Seven of Nine, aren't you, Jerry?

Well, she's in Star Trek, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So her name was Jerry Zimmerman, but she's kept the Ryan surname. Why would she keep the surname? I guess it's part of the... Acting, I imagine. Name recognition. That was her...

Yeah, the name she uses in acting, I'm guessing. That is amazing. Yeah, yeah, there you go. I mean, it's a shame that it is a depressing story that she comes up in. Yeah, it's horrible. Which is a shame. But also, hey, Star Trek reference. Yeah.

Oh, wow, that is just amazing. Yeah, well, all this happens, remember, right when the Republicans have the moral high ground. This is not long after Bill Clinton and Gingrich talking about how all Democrats are just like morally bankrupt but oh no look here's a Republican being just as bad um yeah so all of this comes out Ryan drops out and is replaced with Alan Keyes this is a godsend for the Obama camp because Keyes is a proven failure in the GOP, having crashed out

in a couple of previous elections. He was a far-right evangelical preacher type with no ties to the state whatsoever. There was no way he was ever going to win. No. It's around this time, so campaigns going on, that Obama was invited to deliver the keynote speech at the

Democratic Convention. This is a huge deal. Is this the one that got him recognised? Is that really successful? We'll see in a moment, but yes, to put it bluntly. Remember Bill Clinton did this, and it crashed and it burnt. He did a speech at the

convention and it was awful, but he miraculously managed to turn it round by appearing on a late night show. It's a lot of pressure. If he crashes and burns, that's it. His career's over. Bill Clinton was an aberration for being able to turn that around. But if he does well, it will boost his career.

There was so much pressure on this speech. So the Obama team pretty much stopped campaigning and focused on nothing but this speech, figuring that if it's good enough, it will make up for the lack of campaigning. Word by word. It was written, it was rewritten, Obama was reciting it over and over again, and in the end, they had something that they thought would be a showstopper. They were really happy with their speech.

They then hand it to the Kerry team, because Kerry is the one who's going to be running for president against Bush, and the Kerry team review it, and then they come back to the Obama team and say, oh, it's a good speech. It's a very good speech. But could you change a couple of things? Because it's very close, very close in tone to Kerry's speech.

We don't want to double up on things. It sounds a little bit too presidential. Just tone it down a notch, okay? You know the line about there not being red states or blue states, just United States? I mean, we had that line. Honest. Yeah. Yeah. So when you hear that, know that we had it first, okay? Because we had it first. Coincidence, hey? Great minds think alike, but you need to drop it. Obama was furious. Apparently he stayed very calm in front of everyone else, but when he got into his car with Axelrod,

which was just him and the greaser, Obama turned to Axelrod and said, and I quote, that **** is trying to steal a line from my speech. Which I can't imagine Obama saying. I can't imagine him swearing, no. Good gracious. Who? Yeah. Good Lord. Who? Yeah.

Very unhappy. Still, the speech is reworked until they were happy with it anyway. The message was one of hope and moving past the partisan attacks and this rising, almost culture war between the different peoples of America that's been going on since the end of the Reagan era that seems to only be getting

worse. We need to put a stop to it. That was the message. So he delivers his speech, and oh, it goes down well. It goes down insanely well. The convention all saw that he was a rising star. The camera panned over the people applauding at the end, and usually it's clap, clap, clap, polite clapping, maybe standing and clapping.

There were people weeping, Jamie. That's a good speech. the end and usually it's clap clap clap polite clapping maybe standing and clapping there were people weeping jamie that's a good speech yeah there were people literally in tears of amazement over the speech apparently so uh yeah deodorite did so well in fact that after he finished his speech people kept asking him when he was going to run for president. Haha, yeah, come on, president. Suggesting it could be as early as 2012 he could get into the presidency. Newspapers called it astonishing and a blockbuster. One said that a superstar has been born. It's a good speech. Yeah.

As Obama left the convention, surrounded by well-wishers, one of his advisers' phones rang. I forgot to take a note on who. Let's just say it's Axelrod. Yes. So Axelrod's phone rings. He's got... Name a song from Grease. That can be his ringtone. Oh, Grease Lightning. Yes. Grease Lightning.

And he listens to the song and it calls out because he's just singing it along, doesn't he? Yeah, it's just the tune. There's no words. But he's just singing it along then he yeah it's just the tune there's no um there's no words but he's got he's got to sing greece lightning before he answers it's just a habit hello and that's what he answers yeah yeah so he does that on the other end of the phone is an aid of gorbachev oh mikhailhail. Yeah. The retired Soviet leader had seen the speech and wanted to talk to this promising young man. I mean, that's a sign of a good speech.

The Gorbachev phones you afterwards to talk about it. Okay, says Obama, so he takes the call, quite surprised. At this time, his aid bumps into one of the old guard in the senate one of the old men of the senate been around for a while knew how things work in the senate had some wise words this was delaware senator joseph biden i've heard of him yes biden said to the advisor he's a good man, talking about Obama, but tell him he needs to slow down when he gets to the Senate. So just cool it a little bit.

You're sounding a little bit too presidential. There's a pecking order here. That's wonderful. Now, back home in the race. After all of that, Keyes never stood a chance. I mean, Keyes already didn't stand a chance, but now not at all. Obama won the race with nearly 70% of the vote. Wow. This, on top of the speech, propelled him into national recognition status.

Not only was he doing well generally, but he was now the only black person in the Senate. Wow. Yeah. Now, I know we've been doing this for a long time And I shouldn't be surprised by this But that surprised me I kind of assumed we were doing a bit better than that, Jamie There were no black people in the Senate So I went and looked this up

Go on, take a guess Since the very start of our podcast How many black senators do you think there have been In the history of the United States? Go right up to modern day Don't go to where we are in the history of the united states go right up to modern day don't go to where we are on the podcast right up to modern day all right so now yeah um in my head i was i'm hoping a bit at least a hundred should be more 12 12 12 oh that's Obama was only the fifth. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm. Hmm. Anyway. All of this adds up to him being a political phenomenon. Within hours of winning the Senate seat, he was being bombarded by the press about when are you going to run for president? You're clearly a future president. Obama grew frustrated by this and responded, and I quote,

guys, I'm a state senator. I was elected yesterday. I've never set foot in the United States Senate. I've never worked in Washington. And the notion that I'm going to run for higher office doesn't make sense. So him, Axelrod, and the rest of the team were like, no, no, we need to cool this

right down because if we burn too bright too quickly we would fizzle out yeah so pump the bricks yeah i love the idea of just like if you just do a hard cut for the podcast just this farmer just planting a seed in the ground see it's planted it's not quite taken root yet well after he said i'm definitely definitely not doing this, I can only imagine the collective press around him all looked at each other knowingly. We know what he's trying to say. Yeah. In front of Obama, who's getting very annoyed.

No, guys, seriously. No, no, seriously. Oh, we get you. We get you, Mr. Obama. Wink, wink. No, why are you winking? Stop winking. I'm not voting for president.

Yes, yes. Are you tapping your nose? Anyway, Obama got a one-bedroom flat in Washington. Ah, splashing out. Good. Yes, well, Michelle meant it when she said, I'm not going to Washington. Sorry.

They had a life there. Her and the girls were going to stay at home, where their life was, and Obama was going to go and live on his own in Washington. However, things are looking better. Michelle's worries have alleviated a lot. The rapid rising stardom of Barack made her think that actually maybe they could afford to do this. And she wasn't thrilled that Barack was spending so much time away,

but she was no longer actively telling her husband that this was a mistake. It helped that Barack was able to, at this point, sign a three-book deal worth $2 million. That helps. Just think how many biographies he's going to be able to write now. Oh. So many. So many biographies. Meanwhile, Obama's doing things like going on late-night shows

and having lunch with President Bush. Oh, really? Yeah, President Bush and Cheney invited him to lunch and he went and had lunch with the two of them. Both sides saw this as a good PR win. Yeah, wow. Obama, I'm now big enough

I can have lunch with the President. Bush, look, I can reach across the aisle and talk to Democrats. So, yeah. It's not that long ago, but again, different time in politics. Yeah. Hard cuts the field. That seed is just a taken root.

Oh, yeah. Just a little shoot. Just a little tiny root. It's coming out. Yeah, little white roots. What kind of seed is it? Is it a small little sharp seed or is it like a big runner bean kind of thing? Oh, it's a...

I think a mixed bean, like a rounded seed. Not as big as a runner bean, but you know. Okay, yeah, fair enough. Okay. His face was on the front cover of Newsweek around this time as well. What I'm trying to say is he has hit the big leagues. Yes.

He is nationally recognised. However, despite the hype, like I say, Obama and his team had a plan and the plan was to follow biden's advice yeah slow it down let's not burn out too quickly the plan was literally called the strategic plan that was their title so sad sat around one day we need a plan for this we need a plan what can we can we call it? How about the clever plan? No, no. Not quite on the nose. The well thought out plan.

I mean, I like things being well thought out. Yeah. Have we got a better word for that? But this is more of a strategy. Yes, I like it. This is more like a strategy plan. Oh, no. Strategic.

Yes. And they all went out for Chinese. It was great. Yeah. The strategic plan was for Obama to spend his time focused solely on Illinois to begin with. He was not going to do any more national events. He wasn't going to comment on national politics. It was just about his state.

He needed to prove to people that he could do the job he'd been elected to get into. Yeah. Rather than just run off to look for the next thing. Yeah. So keep his head down, get on with his job in the Senate, work on bills about highway construction and ethanol usage and alternative energy, which is exactly what he did. Excellent. I won't go into details on that. Thank you. But the celebrity aspect did not fade.

Oprah, I probably don't need to say who Oprah is. Very popular TV host in America. Yeah, we know. Very popular. Yeah. The off chance someone listening doesn't know. I feel like who knows, maybe someone's going to like dig this out of the internet archives in 500 years time and they'll be like, why is he just saying Oprah? Who's this person? What's an Oprah?

What's an Oprah? Yeah. Is that like when you go and listen to music? Yeah, exactly. Remember when Historia Augusta used to do that? Yeah, yeah. Just define what these things are. This is, yeah. So, yeah. So that's just future-proofing the podcast, James.

I love the way comparing our output to the Historia Augusta. I would never do that. We are far, far more reliable than the Historia Augusta. And sober. Yeah. Yes. Anyway. And sober. Yes. Anyway. Oprah publicly praised him and Vanity Fair did a

two-page spread on him. Dreams from My Father was doing a lot of work as more and more people were reading it. In 2005, as part of a congressional delegation, he went to Russia and Ukraine to inspect weapons storage facilities. He was in Ukraine, and there was a tour guide going around a very average-looking building.

It had some padlocks on the door and, like, I don't know, a fence with a bit of barbed wire, but that was it. I mean, it was a door that you open with a key and stuff. And they went in, and the tour guide was picking up vials and holding them up and the translator was saying things like, and this one is anthrax, and this one is the plague. Obama apparently started backing away at this point, thinking, oh god. If that

vial is dropped, we're all dead. When he started backing away, he looked around and realised that everyone else he was with was already at the back of the room. Yeah. So he's doing political things. He's going to other countries. He's doing his job, is what I'm trying to say here.

But while he was in Europe, Hurricane Katrina hit. Ah, yes. Yeah. Getting back home, Obama broke his rule of not weighing in on the national scene. There were many talking about how the administration's response was a sign of racism. Now, as he was the only black senator, he felt he had to say something at this point. So he did, and I will quote him. It is way too simplistic to say that this administration does not care about black people.

I think it is entirely accurate to say that this administration's policies don't take into account the plight of the poor population in poor communities. But I also have to say that this indifference is not entirely partisan. We as Democrats have not been very interested in poverty or issues relating to inner cities as much as we should have. Now I think this quote really sums up Obama at the time very well indeed. Instead of using the tragedy of Katrina to drum up outrage at the Republicans and gain support for the Democrats, instead he used it as a way to say that everyone could and should be working together to help solve racism, but he also did it in a way where he barely mentions race. He swerves away from race and says, no, this is about poverty and poor people in inner cities,

which is tied completely to race. But Obama's not making it about race when it easily could be. Now, the reason why he's doing that is because there are a lot of people in America who really don't like to think that they're racist as a country and get very angry when they're told that there are race problems in the country. It's easier to talk and get their attention if you're talking about poor communities. So that's what Obama was doing. Again, we see this is him reaching across to try and get people from across the divide. Yeah.

A strategy that he's been doing for a while now, and he's now perfected it. So like I say, this is what he's going to build his future campaign around, hope and unity rather than division and culture wars. Meanwhile, Obama spent his time writing his next book. Hooray! This book is going to help promote that great strategy that I've just mentioned. This was called The Audacity of Hope.

The Audacity of Hope was no dreams from my father. That was a book written by a young man who felt that he was finally understanding his place in the world and wanted to let it all out. This book was a campaign tool written by a politician, very much so. It was very carefully put together so as few people as possible could be offended by it. Even topics where the Democrats would usually be fully behind, Obama spends time to explore the counterpoint, just as he had during his Harvard days, if I remember. So the book was published. It was a huge success.

And it was becoming very clear to everyone that the time was right. It was early. It was very early. He'd only been a senator for a couple of years. But as Axelrod pointed out, as he peered over the top of his sunglasses, the iron's never going to be hotter than this. He is big at the moment. If he waits, he's only going to be hotter than this he he is big at the moment if he waits it's only he's only going to fade and if you actually start to look into the numbers and the possible futures

this becomes very obvious because if a democrat won in 2008 which was likely bush was not well liked then obama would have to run against an incumbent Democrat in 2012. That's not going to work. Or wait to 2016 and run as a third-term Democrat. That hardly ever works. Meanwhile, he was all over the media right now. The time is now. Do it now. There was one problem. There was also another big name in the Democrats who also saw it as their time.

And that is Hillary Clinton. Oh yes. Oh yes. Problem. There was also another big name in the Democrats who also saw it as their time. And that is Hillary Clinton. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And she was not a rising star. She was a star already very much in the sky shining brightly. She had all the connections you would expect from a senator who was also an ex-First Lady. She was the Democratic Party at this point. She would be tough to beat. But Obama realised that it was this year or waiting at least a decade.

Yeah. He either does it now or he's an old man president. Yeah. And he wants to be president now. So after some deliberations, he finally agrees. Yes, this is it. I'm going to do it. Obama announced that he was going to run and the race was on.

To begin with, Obama was way behind Clinton. He was a big name, he was a rising star, but everyone knew it was Clinton's turn. It just was. The public knew it, the party knew it, everyone knew that Clinton was going to be the next president. If the Democrats beat the Republicans. Yeah, of course.

As he found before in races, his biggest appeal was with younger, educated white people. He could pull that vote in no problem at all. He was also popular with black voters, understandably. But he had a problem against Clinton in this regard

because he was up against a Clinton. And as we've seen, the Clintons spent their careers courting the black vote, and they had black friends in very high places. I've got black friends. Now, I didn't go into it much during the episode for time reasons, but Bill Clinton was actually called the first black president in 1998 by Nobel Prize-winning author Toni Morrison, who was also black,

by the way, just to make that clear. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Yeah, Bill was seen by many black people at the time as the first president who in any way understood them. He, like many black people in the United States, grew up poor. He also loved playing jazz. And he was, as far as pretty much anyone could tell, not personally racist. I mean, you can question some of his policies as he was president, but at a personal level, he didn't appear racist. That was a win in a lot of black people's minds. It's a lot better than a lot of presidents.

Also, it was very clear due to polling around the Lewinsky scandal that the demographic that supported Bill Clinton during the whole Lewinsky scandal, more than any other, was the black demographic. They saw him as being picked on by authorities needlessly. Yeah. So the Clintons have built up a solid base from the black communities in America. Obama, on the other hand, was new, little known, and yet again, he was coming up against this idea that he was a bit too white for the average black voter. It's weird that perspective is so different, isn't it? Yeah, can you imagine his frustration? It's like, what do you mean I'm too white? What about the white lady over there? Is she not too white? But that is how people were

talking at this time. Now, one of Obama's financial supporters and backers in his state senate days told Obama that he would be supporting and backing Hillary. This was Ferdinand Jordan, the president of the National Urban League. He'd supported and backed the Clintons for years. And I'll quote, I am too old to trade friendship for race. If you win, I'll be with you. So if you win the primaries, I'll quote, I am too old to trade friendship for race. If you win, I'll be with you.

So if you win the primaries, I'll support you. But I've been friends with the Clintons for years, so I'm going to support them. Which, I mean, it makes sense. You go with who you know. But also, you can understand why Obama would be frustrated by this. More upsetting for Obama was when Andrew Young... Now, Andrew Young was one of Martin Luther King's close advisers,

so this is true civil rights movement royalty here. He came out and said that Obama should run, but not until 2016. Because it was Hillary's turn. Oh, I can imagine that, Obama versus Trump. Oh my goodness. Well, when Young was asked to elaborate I can imagine that, Obama versus Trump. Oh my goodness. Well, when Young was asked to elaborate why a black person should vote for Clinton over Obama, Young replied, and I quote,

Bill is every bit as black as Barack. What? He's probably gone out with more black women than Barack has. Oh. Yeah, yeah. This was followed by another living activist from the civil rights movement, John Lewis, coming out in support for Hillary Clinton as well. Obama was bitterly disappointed by all of this.

Remember, he grew up in his high school days and his university days just absolutely obsessed with the civil rights movement. And these are his heroes saying, no, Clinton. So he was very disappointed. But there's no time to dwell on this in a presidential campaign. The Iowa vote was coming up. If Obama loses here, the campaign is dead before it starts. Now, it's at this point Obama gets a

huge win. Because a popular TV talk host, Oprah Winfrey, declared that she would support the Obama's campaign. Ooh. Now this did little to help with the idea that he only appealed to the elites, but it did do a lot to get the average TV-watching public, who paid very little attention to politics, to notice him. Yeah.

And not only was she saying, I support Barack Obama, she also said that she would join Barack and Michelle on tour in Iowa. So the three of them went on tour. Now, people weren't going to go and see Barack and Michelle Obama. They're certainly going to go and see Oprah Winfrey. So people went to go and watch. And this dominated the news. The votes came in, and Obama wins easily.

The campaigning had worked. He said that night in a speech, On this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we could not do. Very grandiose. Yeah. We're just winning a primary. But hey, rousing stuff.

Yeah. However, when Clinton won New Hampshire shortly afterwards, it became clear to everyone that this was going to be a close race. Over the next few weeks, there was very little between the two campaigns. Now, race was the largest topic of conversation, both negatively and positively. The Clinton camp figured that they had a strong enough of a hold in the race area to keep that the narrative. We can talk about black voters and we won't be harmed, so let's stay with this being the narrative. Some in the Clinton camp said that they should lean into the idea of it being the first female president,

go more positive, breaking the mould. But Hillary herself decided against this. I was going to say, I think Obama would have the same card. Well, exactly. It's like, do we fight first black president with first female president? That's just going to get bitter, isn't it? It's not a really good way to go. Whereas, said Hillary's camp, we are actually quite strong with black voters, so maybe we just keep it about race, not talk about sex.

And yeah, Hillary was happy with that. She did not want it to go down to the fact she was a woman. No, I think you don't need to. Yeah, so that conversation didn't really happen, which is interesting when you've got the first female candidate ever, but then she was against the first black candidate ever. So there you go. Hello, Editing Rob here, just jumping on. That last line was said in the middle of conversation. It was only when editing I realised that it's definitely factually incorrect. So I just thought

I'd come and correct the record here. Obviously, Obama was not the first black candidate to run in a primary, and Hillary Clinton wasn't the first woman. So, just to be clear, we have Carol Braun in 2003. She ran an exploratory committee for a presidential bid in the 2004 election. And also, back in 1999, Elizabeth Dole for the Republicans also did the same. So there have been some women putting their names forward. But I think it is safe to say that Hillary Clinton is the woman who really managed to push herself forward, being a strong candidate that the electorate thought was viable. And then we also have a whole history of black people who have had votes in primaries before. I mean,

starting back with the famous Frederick Douglass. I mean, he technically got a vote, apparently, in 1818-18. You've got George Edwin Taylor, Channing E. Phillips, Shirley Chisholm, and Jesse Jackson. All of them have got votes in primaries before. Jesse Jackson, by the way, is supporting Obama at this point in the podcast, although I've not really mentioned him in this episode. So anyway, my point is to say I was wrong to say that, and I'm correcting the record here. But I also think it is safe to say that Obama and Hillary Clinton were definitely above all the others in terms of national recognition and their chances to actually become the president, which was the point I was trying to make. Anyway, back to past me.

Anyway, instead of talking about sex, both candidates started hearing stories in the press like Clara Viren. Now, Clara Viren was a 60-year-old black lady from South Carolina. She said that she wanted to see a black president in her lifetime. I remember this. Oh, do you? I think so.

But she was a... Sorry, I make sense. To be honest, the first woman president with Hillary in 2016. Sorry. Carry on. It's okay. I mean, a lot of people will be saying that, wouldn't they? That's a fair point, yeah.

Yeah, so, Clara Viren said she wanted to see a black president in her lifetime, but she was afraid they would kill him if he got in. And because she was so scared for Obama's life, she was going to vote for Clinton. Also, after all, she said, and I'll quote her now,

we always love Hillary because we love her husband. Oh. Yeah. So, again, frustrated is hardly the word for Obama at this point. At this point, he just sighs, and as the only black candidate, he has to go out to court the black vote. Wow.

Yes. He decides to address it head on at this point, and he delivers a speech, and I'll quote him, So, brothers and sisters out there telling folks that I can't win, don't defeat ourselves. Get that out of your mind that we can't do something. What kind of message are we sending to our children that we can't do something? Obama goes on to win South Carolina, by the way.

And then the daughter and brother of JFK came out and supported Obama as well. So we're starting to get some good endorsements. But it's still very close in the polls. But, generally, Obama's ticking up and Hillary's ticking down. In Mississippi, he was now getting more of the black votes than Clinton for the first time. So that

was a sign that things were improving, the tide was turning. There was some uproar around this time when Joe Biden publicly described Obama as, and I quote here, the first mainstream African-American candidate who is bright and articulate and clean and nice looking. Oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you went, oh. Come on, Biden. No, don't say that. Yeah, a lot of people went, oh, that's a bad choice of words. That's not cool. You're just being racist there, Biden. Yeah. Now, Obama himself, by this point, had got to know Biden and was not

actually that bothered by it. He saw the statement as the way Biden speaks in his folksy kind of way and he saw the clean part as being clean of character. So Obama himself apparently wasn't too bothered. It's like, yeah, that's just how Biden speaks. But the press jumped on it and Obama publicly stated that the comment was factually incorrect. That's all he said. Good. Yeah.

Anyway, things are pretty much a dead heat still. It can still go either way. Primaries are coming in. They're going to both candidates. And then the Clinton campaign were able to land a huge blow on the Obama campaign when tapes of a sermon from a friend and pastor of Obama

came out. This was Jeremiah Wright and he had known Obama for years and they were close. He was Obama's pastor. Wright had delivered a lot of fiery sermons in his day and he had opinions, shall we say. Oh dear.

The Clinton campaign found a tape of Wright saying that 9-11 was America's chickens coming home to roost. He pointed out that the United States had dropped nukes on innocent cities and supported state terrorism against Palestine and black South Africans. Now, all of these arguably are good points. But let's face it, the average American citizen didn't want to hear them during a campaign. It's all very negative. And it's, yeah, that's not what people want to hear, is it? Nope.

But then things got worse. Because then another tape was found where Wright called the country the US of KKKA, which, yes, there is racism in America, but you could argue that's stirring the pot a little bit. And then a tape was found of him saying, not God bless America, but God damn America. Now, at this point, even people are going, well, he's making points, would start going, eh, that's not great, is it? These antagonistic comments could have been debated, however, arguably.

But it was the tone of delivery that made it come across as, I mean, quite literally preaching. He was literally preaching at the time. Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah. And anti-American. You can understand why people are hearing things like, God damn America.

I mean, that stoppiece just doesn't sound good, does it? And then things go off the cliff because it was discovered that Wright had talked about how the government had created HIV to kill off people of colour. No. No.

No. No. This is a sudden leap into conspiracy theories that made it impossible to defend any other point he had made whatsoever. That's it. It's indefensible now. It just is. The guy's clearly a conspiracy theorist. Fox News had a field day, as you could imagine. Loops of audio were being played non-stop with the headline, Obama's Minister of Hate. The right attacked Obama, saying that this was proof that these were Obama's real feelings

and that Obama was racist. Yeah. Now, Clinton's camp toyed with the idea of running with the whole Obama is anti-white, but decided against it. They knew it would damage Obama, but they also knew that that would be so toxic it would damage everyone. So, you know what? Let the right attack him for that. We'll just stay quiet for now. That's good.

That's actually a very savvy and appropriate response. Now, Obama knew that this was a pivotal point. If he could not get out from under this, his campaign would be over. So, he decides once more to deliver a speech. Again, on race. And it had to be good. It had to tackle right head on. Yeah. I'm a citizen of the US KKKA. I mean, oh, no, no.

No, no, damn it, damn it, damn it. No, no, he said, I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother, a woman who had to raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her by on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe. These people are all part of me, they're part of America, and part of this country that I love.

Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. Yes, there are people that I love who are not ideal, but they're not my views, and we need to make things better. It worked. The speech was praised by most. Fox News and the right called it morally dishonest. But they couldn't really pick it apart more than that. It was a good speech.

He is good at speeches. Obama hoped that was it and he'd put it to bed. I'll never be picked on again. He had not put it to bed because Wright himself was soon being interviewed and that was disastrous for Obama because Wright double downed on his HIV conspiracy

and then said Obama was only saying things he was saying right now to get elected, strongly implying that Obama secretly agreed with him and then to the Obama camp's horror Wright made a joke that he might become Obama's camp's horror, Wright made a joke that he might become

Obama's vice president choice. Oh. You can just imagine everyone screaming at the TV at that point. No. I can imagine this point. He just ran to the nearest radio station, Obama, and went, it's Joe Biden.

It's going to be Joe Biden. Joe Biden. Biden had no idea. He still doesn't remember the last those eight years. Ouch, sorry. He's very old. He's very old. Oh, Jamie, did you not see the State of the Union address he delivered recently?

Yes, I did. It was a well-crafted speech. It was very fiery. Very fiery. I watched the entirety of it from start to finish. And I was seriously impressed, I must say. But hey, it's for a future episode. Yeah, we'll leave it at that.

Yeah, anyway. I'm jesting because he's so old. He is so old. He is so old. Anyway, Obama was very upset and frustrated by this. As you can imagine, this could tank his whole campaign. So he did the only thing that he could. In a town hall discussion the next day, he

announced that he was outraged by his ex-pastor, ex-pastor, and his remarks. And I quote here, So that's it just dis it's like no no more you've gone too far now this was damaging to him but despite this the primary votes were coming in and obama was pulling ahead the two camps were furious at each other by this point the clinton camp and the obama camp hated each other bill clinton and michelle

obama in particular were very frustrated with the other side because they saw the toll it was taking on their spouses. Anyway, by June 2008, it had become clear, however, Obama has won. It was close, but he did it. He just gets the nomination. So with the nomination secure, focus turns on the actual election itself. First of all, his vice president choice. There was a lot of speculation about the possibility of

Hillary Clinton. But both camps were too bruised and battered from their campaign for that to happen. In the end, elderly statesman Joseph Biden was chosen. Even then, in 2008, he was elderly. He can live out his twilight years as vice president. And then he can

retire and be wonderful. He can live out his twilight years as vice president. And then he can retire and be wonderful. He's so old. So old. He was born the same month as Obama's mum, remember? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So to be fair, he wasn't like stupidly old at this point. No, no, no.

This was a while ago. Anyway. Almost 10 years ago. Oh no, we're further back than that. Jamie, we're in 2008. We're far further back than 10 years ago. Oh my God. Yes.

Anyway. Biden had a lot of experience, a lot of experience in Washington. He looked like a wise statesman. He contrasted Obama, basically, and that's what you want from your vice president pick. But he also had experience fighting the GOP candidate. That's always useful,

because Obama was up against none other than John McCain. Oh, yes. I remember, I don't know if you can talk about it, so I'll ask you now. Are you going to talk about when McCain's doing a debate? No, he's giving a speech in Town Hall and they're questioning and somebody asks about... Oh yes, yes, we'll get to that in a moment. I'll leave it. Okay, so we've got a bit of McCain in Bush's episode. He's the maverick in the GOP. He's not loyal to any branch, damn it. He's generally supported by the hawkish factions because of his military

background, but also he is more socially liberal than some other areas of the party. He's generally supported by the hawkish factions because of his military background. But also, he is more socially liberal than some other areas of the party. He's hard to pin down, is McCain. The GOP saw where to attack the first black nominee. They knew where they wanted to go with this. You can imagine

the GOP advisers sitting around. So, strategies for attacking Obama, the first black nominee. Let's just write that on the board. First black nominee. How can we attack this man, anyone? Anyone? Anyone at all? Excuse me, you've just written the word black on the board

and put a big bubble around it. So I have. I meant to say first black nominee, but I've just written the word black, haven't I? You put lines around it. It's a spider diagram. Yeah, unfortunately, I really think it might have been about that, because

the strategy's clear. Let's raise stories about him not being a true American and being anti-military. Now, McCain, if you remember, had suffered the made-up rumours about him fathering a black child out of wedlock from the right of the party back when he was up against Bush. And this made him very wary of using race in the campaign.

McCain apparently was not happy with this, but everyone else in the party was more than happy to go for it. So that's what they did. Salovey. Yeah. Before long, stories were swirling in the right-wing media that Obama was secretly Muslim and was radicalising people. Of course he was. Yeah. Fox News host Sean Hannity, I'll edit out my first attempt at

saying his name. Sean Hannity ran a series of programmes that attempted to link Obama with radicals in politics and in Islam. It was big on conjecture, was his programmes, small on details and evidence. A lot of questions were raised. Few were answered. Hmm. Yeah. So you could almost argue he was not being a journalist.

You could argue that. So yeah, Fox News were having a field day, but none of it was really landing outside those that wanted to hate any Democrat or black man, regardless. Swing voters were not convinced by it. Good. McCain's team were getting frustrated. McCain himself, in particular, apparently,

was getting very frustrated with how much the GOP were trying to play dirty. Yeah. He didn't want to do it that way. But they weren't getting anywhere, and when they weren't playing dirty, they were not getting credit for playing it clean. So McCain's resolve starts to shake. Well, if I'm not getting credit for not being dirty,

I might as well be dirty. It became clear that he was more open for dirty tactics when he announced Sarah Palin for his running mate. Oh, I forgot about her. Sarah Palin was very much from the far right of the party. And when I say the far right of the

party, we are talking extreme right of the GOP here. We've talked about the far right of the party before because essentially that is what got Reagan into power. Well, the GOP here. We've talked about the far right of the party before because essentially that is what got Reagan into power. The GOP's evolved since then and that far right of the party now has a further right.

Yeah, scary. And Palin's part of that. So she's brought in for the Vice President to keep that side of the GOP happy. The moderates would go with McCain, although not everyone liked him. Like I say, McCain was hard to pin down. But the side of the GOP happy. The moderates would go with McCain, although not everyone liked him. Like I say, McCain was hard to pin down. But the right of the party would be very happy

if Palin's a vice president. So Palin comes in. And she is not going to shy away from dirty tactics. She immediately started to talk about how Obama was, and I quote here, "...someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country. Oh.

Obama is friends with a terrorist who targeted America, she said. Right. Literally. Well, guess what this was referenced to? 9-11, by any chance? No, no, no, this was a reference, although we'll come back to the fact

that you thought that. The reference was the fact that Obama knew someone in Chicago and was on the same board for a couple of years with someone called Bill Ayers. Ayers was the founder of a radical left organisation that had planted some bombs in the 70s. This was

obviously, you're planting bombs, it's gone too far, but it's fairly low-level stuff in that no one died, apart from three of their own members, when they mishandled one of their own bombs. So they're idiots. So you're right.

Yeah. Yeah. Ayers, and his girlfriend at the time, decided to give themselves up to the authorities. If this had gone too far, they'd just give up. Hand themselves in. They end up paying a fine, they spend a bit of time in jail, they come out, and then they get on with their lives.

And Ayers mellows somewhat as he gets older, as most people do. He moved in circles that meant that he met Chicago politicians and his and Obama's path had crossed a few times. That is it. That's literally it.

The right-wing press saw a connection there. It's like he was at the same party as this man, and he was on the same board for a couple of years as this man, and they ran with it, and they ran with it, until the story was in everyone's head that Obama had a friend who planted bombs in America. Now, most did not know the details about all of this

that I've just said to you, but they did hear Palin talk about Barack Hussein Obama, stress on Hussein, being friends with, and I quote again, terrorists who targeted their own country, and the public drew their own conclusions, and it was exactly the same conclusion that you drew. You hear terrorism in this day and age in America, you think 9-11. Obviously, it's the biggest terrorist attack that's ever happened in America. So, strong insinuations that Obama has friends involved in 9-11 or things like it. By this time, McCain himself had just given in, trying to fight clean, and had just gone, you know what, let's go all in. In for a penny, in for a pound. So he started calling for Obama to come clean about his friendship with the terrorists.

The Republican crowds at the rallies get very riled up by this. They get very excited by it, very angry by it. They've got to make sure this man doesn't get in. They start chanting at the rallies, terrorist, murderer, off with his head. McCain hears this and is shook quite a bit. He realised that they've gone too far. This rhetoric can be dangerous. Yes.

We've overstepped a line here. We need to make sure we pull this back. We've got a whole mob in front of us calling for the execution of our political rival. We've gone too far. And the last thing we want to do is stand in front of your loyal crowd and rile them up. Exactly. So he makes a statement saying, no, Obama's

an honourable man, I just disagree with him politically. Shortly after this, a woman told him, in a town hall event, and this is what you were referring to earlier, that Obama was an Arab. Now, McCain interrupted her straight away and said, no ma'am, he is a decent family man.

So, I mean, it's good that McCain was trying to slow down the racism. It's a shame that he clearly thought that being an Arab was apparently mutually exclusive to being a decent family man. And just doing his own racism at the same time. But you can see where he was coming from. He was trying to do the right thing. It came

out poorly. When he went on to say that he would respect his opponent, his own supporters start to boo him. Yes, heard that. McCain realised that they've let the genie out of the bottle and there's no longer any ability to control the far-right attacks on his

opponent. No. So that's fun, isn't it? Yes, that makes everything a lot easier to deal with. Yeah. Anyway, Obama, he's continuing with his approach. He's ignoring all this. He's got a simple method. It's very simple. Keep talking about hope and the future and how the country can come together.

Positive, positive, positive, positive, hope, hope, hope. That's what I'm all about. Like I say, it's a dangerous one to do. You can come across as a bit wishy-washy and a bit like a long-haired hippie, can't you? But this was working. Not only was it working well with many voters, it also made the right attacks on him that he was an American-hating racist harder to believe. Yeah.

Polls showed that Obama was in the lead, fairly comfortably. I mean, he wasn't running away with it, but he was definitely in the lead. Polls also showed, incidentally, that the rest of the world all they wanted obama to win yeah hugely he was far more popular internationally than he was in the united states where he was preferred 80 to 20 percent in a major poldom by the bbc world service as covered in bush's episode the rest of the world had gone from World Service. As covered in Bush's episode, the rest of the world had gone from huge sympathy after 9-11 to frustration

and then to anger over the United States blatantly stomping around the world ignoring international laws and conventions. Most countries saw Obama as a chance for the world to just calm down and go back to normal again. Just a safe pair of hands in control of America

who won't be stirring up all the pots, dropping bonds and doing all sorts. So Obama very popular abroad but that doesn't matter. Foreigners don't vote. So election day was drawing in and the economy falls out the window. Yes doesn't it? Yes it does. Yeah Now, this didn't make a huge difference to the campaigning. Bush was trying to sort things out, as we saw, and both McCain and Obama were saying things like, yes, we need to sort this out, don't we? Very little evidence that anyone was swayed which way to vote based on the economic crash, but it's definitely happening. Anyway, there was a sense that Obama has got this. He's won. And the Republicans were very bitter about this.

McCain's team in particular were kicking themselves that they had given the vice president nominee spot to Palin. They really regretted that. Yes, she brought a large faction of the party behind her, but it turned out that she really wasn't very bright or very well informed. She lacked basic knowledge of world events and American history,

and she was almost cartoonishly villainous. She was openly mocking Obama at one point for working with the poor as a community organiser. She was like Marjorie Tedder Green before Marjorie Tedder Green. Could you imagine a major politician

getting up and just mocking the idea of working with poor people? Right. Or the disabled or something. I mean, clearly, that's never going to win votes. Right. The McCain camp were a little bit annoyed with themselves that they had just pandered to the far right of their party.

They figured they would have got more votes without her. But probably it didn't matter either way, because in the end, Obama won the election with 53% to McCain's 46%. Ooh, that's close to the floor. Yeah, yeah. Electoral College, 356 to 173, so it looks more decisive there. But yeah, Obama wins.

America gets its first black president. Which is nice. Yes. We've gone from slavery to first black president. Something that should be pointed out and celebrated. Someone that has to live in a house built by black slaves. Great. Yes. Anyway,

the day of the inauguration comes by and there is a very credible terrorist threat that comes in. Bush's administration officials and Obama's national security team work together on how likely it is that there's going to be an assassination not likely but there's a bigger chance than normal there is discussion about how they go ahead with the inauguration hillary clinton was there because she was the incoming secretary of state that was the job she was given in the end and she's made

sure that no it is going ahead we're not going to have our first black was given in the end. And she's made sure that, no, it is going ahead. We're not going to have our first black president hiding in the shadows when he is made president. And he's not going to be whisked away under a blanket or anything. He's going to stand up there and he is going to be president, says Hillary Clinton, essentially. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone just takes a lead and goes, yeah, takes a lead and goes, yep, okay, we're going ahead with it. It was a risk, because there was a credible threat, but

fortunately, nothing happens. The day goes off by without a hitch. There's lots of celebrations, some bands play, Bruce comes out, plays a song. Yep, there were balls, there were parties. Everyone is happy Huge celebrations Not just in America, across the world

A lot of people were very excited By Obama becoming The president And next episode, we will see Whether the weight of this expectation Crushes him Or whether he soars And becomes an amazing president

Which one do you think it's going to be? I think or whether he soars and becomes an amazing president. Which one do you think it's going to be? I think he'll be seen as perhaps a mediocre president, but very presidential. I think it's a fair thing. He passed the Affordable Care Act, Health Care Act. Yeah, yeah, Obamacare. We'll go into that.

Yes. So I really hope I've not shot myself in the foot here. Three episodes is what I'm aiming for. Yeah. And I figure, I figure not many huge events happened under Obama. It's not like Bush's presidency where everything happened. I'm hoping I can get through all of his

two terms in one episode, and we definitely have three episodes for Obama. So the next episode should be the last one. I really hope I'm not kicking myself whilst doing the research. But we will see, won't we? So there you go. That's Obama part two. Anything you want to add before

we go? No, I think he's the president that we probably all remember, apart from, like, Bush. There's, like, a dwindling awareness as a teenager, as a president of a president. Then there's Obama we lived through going into adulthood. So probably more aware of it. He was president when we met, Jamie. Oh, my goodness, he was.

Yeah. Yeah. When did we meet? met, Jamie. Oh, my goodness, he was. Yeah. Yeah. When did we meet? No, 2006. No. Did he become president when we knew each other? Did we meet in 2006? No, yeah.

That's when we started uni. 2008. Because I remember it was on one of my teaching practices during his inauguration. And the teacher was like, you should remember this because this is history. You'll always remember this. It's like, oh, it's too busy teaching.

Right, okay. Well, I clearly remember it, that it was where we met. So yeah, yeah, there you go. Not only do we remember it, we remember it together, Jamie. Yes, yeah. Yes, we do.

Oh, how nice. Right, okay. Let's end. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you for downloading us where you do download us from. We really appreciate it. And please leave a review as well, whether positive or positive. That would be really great.

Yes, either of those would be great. Our Patreon is available. Lots of Roman episodes and Hamilton episodes, will be finished by the way. Don't worry. We will definitely finish Hamilton. I will definitely need to listen back for a while. I don't even know where we are in Hamilton. Yes, no, I'll have to check my notes.

But yes, it's not going to be abandoned. We just need to get through Trump. Anyway. Yeah, so we'll leave it there then thank you very much for listening and goodbye goodbye

we have a lot of things to go through we do we've failed We've failed. We've failed as political advisors, we have. I just didn't think that anyone would be listening to a bunch of tapes of old servants. No, he's a pastor.

We're in a visual world. We looked into the videos. Yeah. We looked into the videos. We looked into the written... But tapes? Right, there's a whole stack here. We're going to have to listen to all of them.

Just get ahead of this. Okay. Anything we find, bite the bullet. We write it down. We go to Barack. We've got to get focused here. Right, okay. We'll take one each.

Okay? Okay, go. Oh! Apparently Jesus is the son of God. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Did you not... Christians.

This is fine. This is fine. We can use this. Oh, apparently peace and love. That's good. Yeah, no, this is yeah. Oh, okay. Did you not? Yeah, yeah. Christians. This is fine. This is fine. We can use this. Oh, apparently peace and love. That's good. Yeah, no, this is fine. It's fine. I've got hope.

Goodwill to all. Hope's nice. Oh. Ooh. Okay, that took a sharp turn. Go on. It's not good. Apparently 9-11 was America's chickens coming home to roost.

Oh. Yeah, that's not good that's not good is it no we should probably advise uh barack on that and how we can i mean we can spin that though can't we that's not facial that is uh like yeah obama said something similar we need to look at our foreign policy uh that that uh like we need to be more aware of what we do as a country impacts the no it's fine okay it's fine okay keep going keep keep going okay okay um oh oh oh okay okay he's made a what you got to be fair it's a it's a fairly good point uh the usa tends to nuke countries we did nuke a couple of cities I mean we could say that we've nuked one country

so it's singular I don't think that's gonna no but all the other countries have nuclear weapons as well you know we're defending it's defence and yeah

it's in the past it's a long time ago we've moved on yep and we're trying to build a safer world we could talk about de-escalation of arms and stuff

that's fine it's fine we can spin that one we're okay okay yeah a safer world. We can talk about de-escalation of arms and stuff. That's fine. It's fine. We can spin that one. We're okay. Yeah, we're fine. Not ideal, but it's okay. Okay. Oh, I sung a nice hymn in this one.

That was pretty good. Ooh, okay. That's not good. That's not good. Go on. The United States supports state terrorism. Ooh, what's he mean by that? Palestine?

Ooh. You know, the whole apartheid south africa it's not great yes yeah but no one wants to hear it do they um okay maybe we'll just gloss over that because that's all politically complex and most people

don't like thinking about it so hopefully no one will talk about that one too much fine uh fine okay put it down though we've got to put it down okay um oh oh and this one he's talking about a bit of patriotism um good good good anything positive in the usa um it's oh oh oh what's happened no he's just said oh my he said the us of kkka okay that's. Okay, that's the worst one.

That's the worst one. Okay. That's pretty brutal. Okay. Okay. I think at this point we need to start distancing. I think we've got it. We've got, okay, we're just going to,

I don't know what to do with that one. Keep listening. That's not good. As long as it doesn't get any worse than that, I think we'll be able to weather this storm. Okay. Right. All right, keep listening.

Keep listening. Oh. Oh? Oh. Yeah, I think we're at red alert. Red alert? Oh, hang on, let me change the bulb. Okay, we're at red.

Yeah, he's just said the government created HIV to kill off black people. What? Yes. That's not even linked to reality. Oh, good God. Oh, my God. Yes, he's still talking about it. No. Oh, my God.

Right. I don't know what to do here. Oh. Should we stop? Because this is too much. Should we just stop here? Yeah, no. We need to stop this now.

This is just a... What? Crab people living in the centre of the Earth? What? The moon exploded four years ago? And is the reason that we now all have leprosy? What? Hang on.

The Earth's flat? What? And that explains the sun and the way it's orate. What? It's not making any sense. the sun and the way it's orate. What? It's not making any sense. The United States has had no

president for the last 15 years and is being ruled by lizard people. Oh, good God. Hang on. Cups give you cancer. What? Avril Lavigne died and has been replaced by a lookalike. Nickelback is good. What the hell?

Glass is actually opaque. And we have x-ray vision. Everyone's bones are made of jelly?