American Presidents: Totalus Rankium - 6.1 John Q Adams

Episode Date: July 21, 2018

  It’s not easy when your father is one of the most important men in the (albeit short) history of your country. There is a lot of pressure on young JQA to get it right. So after learning all the languages, and understanding Milton and getting to (ahem) know the locals in Sweden, he is hoping his life will get on track. If only he could sort his handwriting out…

Welcome to Totalus Rankium. This week, John Cresci Adams Part 1. Hello and welcome to American Presidents Totalus Rankium. I am Jamie. And I'm Rob, ranking all of the presidents from Washington to Trump. And we're back. Yeah, we are. We're not just back with the podcast. We are back in the North. We're out of Virginia. Oh, are we?

We are because today it is John Quincy Adams, the son of John Adams. Any thoughts about John Quincy Adams? I haven't even in my head of what he's like, but I might be mistaking him for somebody else. I'm thinking of someone that's not quite bald, very thinning on top, quite thin and serious, wears black a lot.

That's what I've got in my head, but I may be thinking of somebody else. I might be getting mixed up with a lot that's what i've got in my head but i may be thinking of somebody else i might be getting mixed up with a guy that shoots people an easy mistake to make yeah thinning on top certainly works he wasn't particularly thin by the end though no but no one called him his rotundus like they did his father though so uh we shall see shall we right on the 11th of july 1767 abigail and john adams had their second child a son named jqa that's ridiculous saying what they stand for um john quincy John Quincy Adams. That's it?

That'll do, yeah. That's his name. Yeah. He was born in Braintree, not far from Boston. That's where, is it Washington? No, that would be John Adams, his father. Ah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah. That makes sense. Soon the family moved into the big city. One night, as the three-year-old John Quincy slept, the Boston Massacre happened. John Quincy didn't care. He's three. Yeah, he's just very apathetic back then.

What will be will be. Then, three years later, a bunch of very angry men threw a whole bunch of tea into the sea. Unfortunately, his addiction was at full height, so he just got the shakes from then on. Yes. Palpitations.

Yeah. So he's about six at this point. Maybe he cared a little bit more, but certainly didn't understand what was going on. He cared more about his little wooden toys, I think. Exactly. Now, his first memories would probably be of him moving out of the increasingly dangerous city and back to Braintree.

Soon afterwards, his father was chosen to represent the colony in the Continental Congress. Obviously, to the young John Quincy Adams, all he'd know is that Daddy had to go away on important business. Yes, he's a really important man. Yes. And this was a time of fear for the young John Quincy. Spiders.

Maybe he feared spiders, but he also feared the British. What everyone does. Yeah. They're so polite, Daddy. They say sorry for everything. And they should be saying excuse me. Well, the family were very aware at this time that they now could become targets due to the fact that John Adams had just committed treason. Yeah, that's a bit of a blemish, isn't it? Yeah, and I will quote here. This is Abigail. We dwelt every hour of the day and night,

liable to be butchered in cold blood or taken and carried into Boston as hostages by marauding men. Now go to sleep, little John. Sleep well. No, this is obviously not what she was saying to John Quincy, but I imagine she would have tried to hide this fear, this very real fear from her children, but it would have been very hard to. And I'm sure John Quincy picked up on the fact that

these are dangerous times. Yeah. So it's a stressful start to his life and one that would not have been fully understood by him. When his father returned, he was soon off again. And this time, news came to the village of actual fighting happening nearby in Lexington and Concord. Still, life goes on, and the seven-year-old John Quincy

would have helped his mother out about the farm. He also would have learnt to read and write at this point. Schools were generally closed because things were a bit dangerous. So Abigail took charge of her son and daughter's education in literacy and her cousin was just kind of roped in to do the maths and science. You there, you know the numbers.

So one day, the sound of cannons blasted through the air. Oh no. Abigail and little John climbed a nearby hill, which sounds nice easy targets they reached the top of the hill and were able to see

the slaughter unfold in the distance is that a red coat or a patch of blood I can't tell well this is the battle of Breed's Hill also known as the battle of Bunk Hill yeah John watched over a thousand Well, this is the Battle of Breed's Hill, also known as the Battle of Bunker Hill. Yeah.

John watched over a thousand British men fall to the fortified position. I guess at that age, though, you wouldn't take in the gravity of what you're seeing. Like, obviously, you know, it's something bad happening and people are falling, but you might not have that comprehension. Yeah, it would have been a difficult thing to process at that age. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Yeah, it would have been a difficult thing to process at that age. Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, perhaps you'd understand the ramifications a bit better when you're older.

But it's, well, as he puts, it left an impression upon me. That's very restrained. How British of him. Oh, you just wait. Oh, really? Oh, yes. Yeah, he wrote later in life that seeing such death at such an early age left him with an abhorrence of war that would stay with him for the rest of his life. So are you implying that he's leaning towards more of a pacifistic thing? Negotiation rather than...

Yes, definitely. He understood that war would happen and did happen. But he was certainly not one to celebrate the idea of war. No. No. So eventually the cries and the screams died down and they packed their picnic up and... No, I'm sure it wasn't that pleasant.

Put their beef sandwiches away uneaten. Yeah. Bottle of ketchup firmly still closed. It's just notaten. Yeah. Bottle of ketchup firmly stung close. It's just not appropriate. Yeah. So mother and son soon returned home after the battle was over, and they spent several days fully expecting the fighting to reach them. I mean, they've just seen very close battles.

This looked bad. So John Quincy watched as the fear in his mother turned to anger against the British, and soon they were collecting up all their pewter spoons and melting them down and then sending them off to become bullets for muskets. And pewter's very easy to melt down. You can do it on your cob. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so, I mean, it wasn't much, but it was their bit for the war effort. You can just imagine little John Quincy there making his bullets.

Carving each one individually. So time dragged on, as it does when you're a child, and soon enough John Quincy wanted to do a bit more than just make bullets at home. So, he volunteered to do his bit. He became a post-rider. This was someone who just delivered letters.

But it's a little bit more dangerous when there's a war going on. I guess so. Yes. Bullets whizzing past your ears and your head. Well, he'd deliver letters, nothing to do with the war efforts. This was just personal letters. So do you think he'd be crawling through a battlefield,

bullets whizzing by, cannon fire, putting massive craters next to him, getting covered in blood and limbs, walks up to one person, Let it be auntie, sir. Cake recipe. Yeah. If you find it useful. Those kind of letters. He wasn't really crawling through the battlefields, though, but he was crossing British lines,

and it was a child with a bunch of family letters, so he was able to do it. He was never really in much danger, but, I mean, he's still very young at this point. Yeah. So he's feeling like he's doing his part. It would have still been a scary thing to do. Roughly how old is he at this point? He's still under 10. Oh. Yeah, yeah, he's still very young.

It's the age of the kids I teach. Yeah, definitely. That's cool. Imagine sending them off with a letter across the British lines. Imagine the risk assessment. Oh, that would be awful. Yeah, so approaching 10 years old,

John Quincy had become more aware of just how important his father was. I mean, before it was just daddy's important. Now it's, oh, no, no, daddy is actually different. This isn't normal. Other families don't have a father like I do. So he became very aware that he was expected to follow in his father's footsteps. Even at this early age, he looked up to his father to follow in his father's footsteps even at this early age he he looked up to his father he feared his father he respected his father all in equal measures he

wasn't really around john adams remember because he was off uh dealing with all the war he seemed like he was more aware of the the image of his father rather than he's like yes exactly so that builds up in his head. The effigy. Yes, exactly. Like in The Lion King when Mustafa is in the clouds. Yeah. Talking like Darth Vader. Yeah, yeah.

John Adams occasionally would pop up in the clouds and talk to him. My son. Are you delivering a letter? Yes, daddy. Very strange day that was. Yeah. So eventually he decides that he is also going to become a great man just like his father. Yeah, he was determined to do well in his studies.

So he starts reading Shakespeare. Oh no, that's not good learning. Oh no, he loved it. No one likes Shakespeare. This isn't a teacher shoving it down his throat in an awful way. This is him just generally discovering it and enjoying it. I think he did it because he thought that's the thing he had to do. Because no one liked Shakespeare.

Well, funny you say that, because Shakespeare he did enjoy. What he thought he should do was enjoy Milton and Paradise Lost. Oh, no. He's ten. Oh, no. He's 10. Oh, wow. Yeah, he wrote at a later time how he attempted to read Paradise Lost at this time. If you're listening and you've read Paradise Lost, you'll understand how ridiculous this is. A 10-year-old trying to read it.

If you've not, go and find it and try and read it and you'll soon discover. I'll quote him here. I attempted 10 times to read it and never and read it and you'll soon discover. I'll quote him here. I attempted 10 times to read it and never could get halfway through. This developed into a big sense of shame because he saw his father enjoying Paradise Lost. He saw his mother enjoying Paradise Lost, but he couldn't get it. And he was so frustrated with himself. So determined, he wasn't going to give up. So he looked at his parents and he figured, right, they sit down, they open Paradise Lost and they smoke. So that's what I need to do.

Obviously, it's all about the smoking. And again, I'll quote here. I smoked tobacco and I read Milton at the same time. After making myself four or five times sick with smoking. I mastered that accomplishment. But I did not master Milton. Oh, so it wouldn't have worked anyway. So you got 10-year-old John Quincy Adams on the porch, pipe in hand, Paradise Lost in the other hand. He's like an old man already, isn't he? Yes.

Desperately trying to get through Milton, just occasionally looking up around. It's like, why does anyone like this? What do these words mean? Yeah, I mean, he eventually said he was 30 before he finally enjoyed Milton. It was always something he felt he should enjoy, but never really did. That's the thing. It's like the image of, I will enjoy it to show that I'm an intellectual, to show that I'm my intelligence superior.

No. I think it really does say something though, that, um, he is reading Shakespeare for pleasure. It's the Milton that he's struggling with. He's a unique child. Well, he's very impressive with the way that he wrote things at this age. He always felt the pressure of being his father's son. So he always pushed himself. Should I read you a letter he wrote at the age of 10? This is a letter that he wrote to his father, aged roughly ten. He received a letter from his father and he wrote back. I love to receive letters very much better than I love to write them.

I make but a poor figure at composition, my head is much too fickle. My thoughts are running after bird's eggs, play and trifles, until I get vexed with myself. Mama has a troublesome task to keep me steady, and I own that I am ashamed of myself. I wish, sir, that you would give me some instructions with regard to my time, and advise me how to proportion my studies and my play in writing, and I will keep them by me, and endeavour to follow them. I am, dear sir, with a present determination for growing better, with a present determination for growing better, yours, John Quincy Adams. Sorry, what?

Yeah. Now, if you're listening and you don't listen to our Roman podcast, you might not realise, but both Jamie and I teach ten-year-olds. Yeah. They don't write like that. They certainly don't. We don't know whether he sat down with Abigail to write this. Maybe he did, but

everything else about his life suggests that yes, he was just a little bit of a child prodigy. Yeah, when he was younger. So anyway, it's around this time that a smallpox swept through the region. Oh no. Abigail took the children to get inoculated. John Quincy came out of the process absolutely fine,

but he then had to watch his sister become quite ill for quite some time. Was that from the inoculation? Yeah, yeah. If you remember John Adams' episode, I described how he had a cut and then an infected thread put inside the cut. So that's how they were doing it back then. They'd then be quarantined for a period of time. And then hopefully he felt better.

Yeah, poor Nabi, his sister. It took her several weeks to recover. So there would have been a lot of stress there. But then John Quincy's father comes home. That must have been a celebration, but also nervous. This is still back when his father is this enigma. Yeah. Yeah.

Darth Vader. Yes, exactly. So dad's back. That's great. But really quite shortly afterwards, when his father was out, a letter arrived at the house. His mother read the letter and became quite angry. It turned out that his father was going to Europe. Now, John Quincy obviously used to his father being absent, so probably wouldn't have been a big deal for him yet. Dad's off again. But then news was given to him. He was going to accompany

his father to Europe. So, I'm guessing nerves, but also a lot of pride. Possibly pride, but mainly horror. Okay. Yeah, I mean, he'd be ripped from his mother. Yeah. His friends.

Yeah. The rest of his family. From Milton. From Milton, yeah. It would have been scary. Everything's about to change. And all children hate the idea of change. Most adults do as well.

So it was a scary time for him. Especially since he was old enough by now to be very aware that if they were captured on the journey, his father would be executed and he would probably be impressed and spend a lifetime forced to work on a ship somewhere. No Shakespeare for you, little boy. No! Yeah, exactly. But you can keep the Milton. No! Dangerous. Dangerous stuff. Still, there was nothing else he could do he's going it's been decided so onto the ship they go now if you remember from john adams episode this journey was very tense yeah british ships spotted them almost immediately and gave chase so only when a violent storm hit them did they lose their pursuers. And then they had to deal with the storm.

And I'll quote John Adams here, a quote that I didn't use last time. A universal wreck of everything in all parts of the ship. Chests, casks, bottles, etc. No place or person was dry. On one of the nights, a thunderbolt struck three men upon the deck and wounded one of them. He lived three days and died raving mad. Through the pain, I can only imagine.

Yeah, nasty stuff. Still, John Quincy survived all of this, all the storm and the chasing, and soon made a friend. Oh. Yes, because on board was the son of a merchant called Jesse. And Jesse had a letter. Jesse gave this letter to John Quincy's father. The letter said, essentially, I'm paraphrasing here, Dear sir, please look after this child and deliver him to his father in Paris.

Cheers. It was pretty much John Adams' response, yeah. Okay. Apparently this wasn't too uncommon for the elites in Massachusetts to just regularly help each other out. But yeah, this was a, you've already been at sea several days, you suddenly find you've got a new child in your care. Paris is so small, not many people there.

It'd be fine. Well, John Adams took it in his stride apparently and John Quincy really happy because he's got a friend to play with. Yay. The two learnt French together on the ship. On a ship. The ship's surgeon taught them some basics in French. You can only imagine the language that they learnt.

Merde. Anyway, eventually they make it to France, only discover that the French were now in the war. Fantastic. This is good news. So they make their way to Paris, and John Quincy was amazed by the scale of everything, just like his father was.

It's so big. Once in the capital, John Adams found Jesse's father had gone. Yeah, he'd gone back to the US. Oh, that's annoying. Yeah, there'd been a crossover. But again, John Quincy, happy about this. His friend still gets to hang around.

So John Quincy and Jesse are enrolled in boarding school, while his father goes off on his diplomatic mission and generally gets annoyed by everyone, especially Benjamin Franklin. Yeah, he does. Yeah. But John Quincy's not interested in all of his father's failings as a diplomat. in all of his father's failings as a diplomat. He's busy at school. He's learning Latin, French, music, dancing, fencing, drawing, all the skills to be a modern French gentleman. He's getting a very good education here.

He was fluent, completely fluent in French, within weeks. Wow. Yeah, it's around this time that he started his diary. He's told that a proper gentleman should keep a diary. So he starts writing and it's because of this we have so much detail about his life because he records practically everything. That's pretty cool. I'll quote an early entry here.

I am convinced of the utility, importance and necessity of this existence. Although I will have the mortification of a few years hence to read a great deal of childish nonsense. That's quite nice. Yes.

What I'm writing now is going to be absolute crap. Yeah. But later on, it'll be amazing. It will. But written in an amazing way. Yeah, yeah. It's just... Far better than anything any other ten-year-old could ever possibly hope to write.

Yeah. So, meanwhile, his father had managed to isolate himself in France. He's not being invited to the parties. He's getting grumpy. He'd become increasingly frustrated with Franklin, and then eventually receives word that Franklin was to be the sole minister in France, and he was

to go home. Yeah, as we covered in his episode, he was not happy. Especially as it actually took a few months to get a ship back to the US. Yeah, it's not like Poppy next door, is it? No, and there were delays and ships got cancelled and it took a long time. But eventually they're on their way back home. John Quincy spent the journey teaching two French diplomats English.

Because he's now bilingual. Wow. Yeah. So he just does that on the way home. He's then reunited with his mother and his siblings. They'd been gone for about a year and a half. So yes, most of it travelling and waiting for ships. But still, quite an experience for him. That's quite depressing. Yeah. And so he settles back into his old life. He's had his adventure and he's home again. And actually, it wasn't too bad.

He quite enjoyed it. But it was not long afterwards that his parents informed him that his father had been given another job. Ah, okay. Again in Europe. Oh.

Yes. He was to be ready to negotiate the end of the war whenever that happened. Not only this, but he was to go with his father once again. And also his younger brother Charles.

Charles is 10 at this point, John Quincy's 12. Okay. The turnaround was so quick that they sailed back towards France on the same ship that had brought them home. Wow. Yeah, they were not in the United States for very long at all. It was land, spend a few weeks getting used to being home again, seeing his friends, getting used to being with his mother again, and then it's back on the ship. That must be so soul-destroying.

I don't know. I imagine he probably enjoyed his adventure. He would have been less nervous this time. It's true. Yeah, he can look after his younger brother, so maybe he felt a bit older, a bit more mature. I imagine this journey seemed less scary however unlike the previous journey this really was not a pleasant one at all no no they hit a very violent storm but threatened to sink the ship all the adults on board took turns in working the pumps 24 hours a day in four hour shifts just to keep the vessel afloat. John Quincy himself took a shift. He was going to do his bit.

He collapsed after a while. Yes. After ten minutes. Yeah, but he still, he joined in. He was determined to join in. They were very aware that if they hit another storm, the ship would likely not make it and they would die. It was a tense journey.

So the ship was diverted to Spain, much closer. Within a month, they would die. It was a tense journey. So the ship was diverted to Spain, much closer. Within a month, they made land. But they're in Spain, they're not in France. This is a slight problem. It's also the middle of winter, so it's not pleasant. They had to trek through the wilderness to the Pyrenees. It's cold, it's wet, it's miserable. They had ancient donkeys with them pulling their belongings. John Quincy wrote that they looked like they were born in the year one, which was quite nice. Daddy, why does this donkey have a zimmer frame? This is John Quincy.

It would be more father. Papa. I do declare these donkeys were born in the year of Augustus. I seem to be pulling the donkey on a sled. It's incapable of movement. So, quite miserable. But eventually they make it to France and then through France to Paris. John Quincy is enrolled into his old school, this time with his brother.

However, as we saw in his father's episode, John Adams was just unable to make inroads with the French society. He's just not very well liked. So he decided to move to Amsterdam instead. John Quincy and Charles went with him and soon enrolled into a new school. He's going to learn a lot in Amsterdam, I feel. Well, there's a problem.

They can't speak Dutch. Yeah, things do not go easy for them in the school. Quite badly, in fact. John Adams is not happy, John Quincy's not happy. A discussion is had. It's decided that they're going to take John Quincy out of the school and enrol him at Leiden University.

He's 13 at this point. Oh. Yeah, but it's Leiden University being one of the most prestigious universities in Europe. Obviously, they can teach in English and French, and John Quincy can speak both those languages. So it's just a better place for him to be. And he writes like a university student. Oh, yeah. So he enrolls, and he's soon learning even more. However, he's not there for very long, because Congress back home had appointed a man named Dana to represent them in Russia.

Dana, however, could not speak French. Obviously, French being the diplomatic language. Yeah. And also the language that the upper class in Russia spoke at the time. They tended to communicate in French. It's a sophisticated language. Yeah. Yeah.

So Dana was going to struggle in Russia unless he had a translator. Now, when he was in Amsterdam coming through, he took a liking to the young and very intelligent John Quincy, 14 by this point. So, he asked John Adams if he could take John Quincy as his interpreter to Russia. John Adams agrees to this. Brilliant. More experience for my child. Of course he can go off. And off John Quincy goes.

So, they track off together. They, after several weeks, reach Berlin. Beautiful Berlin. Yeah, well, John Quincy is very impressed with Berlin. He admired the city for how neat everything was and precise. He was very impressed. Berlin was a very nice city to visit, but he was not impressed with how many of the citizens were treated like slaves. And I'll quote here, they are bought and sold like so many beasts. Remember, John Quincy would not have come

across slavery, really. He's born from Massachusetts. It's not something he's ever really encountered. So when he sees slavery, it's not pleasant. No, he does not like it. Anyway, still, on they go. They don't stop in Berlin for long.

Eventually, they reach St. Petersburg. Now, John Quincy was very impressed with this place. It was amazing. Have you been there? Yes. Yes. Oh, was that nice? 2012.

Beautiful. It's canals all the way through it, big buildings, and it's... I would go back in a heartbeat. It's absolutely beautiful. Yeah, that's pretty much John Quincy's attitude. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Lovely beer shop we went on to. He doesn't mention the beer shop.

And they had a Victorian-style shop as well, where they sold little, like, marzipan figurines that had been handmade and things. It was really nice. Oh, nice. What about vodka tasting? I bet he did that. I bet he did that. Yeah, definitely.

That was fun. I bet it was it's great so when we had it um done there so it was me and my wife and two american friends from seattle no they live in arizona they're born in seattle and they said we can tell you american english because the way you drink your vodka it's like we didn't cough or splurge it's like yeah it's fine you just kept knocking them back and demanding more yeah getting more aggressively a shot yeah does that mean cheers apparently yeah something along those lines of after a drink probably means look at the stupid english people take a copy everything we say yeah yeah anyway so john quincy was looking forward to all of this. He'd read the pamphlet. He knew that all these things took place in St. Petersburg.

He was excited. He was very impressed with the city, like you were. He wrote that it was far superior to Paris. I would agree. However, to Dana's dismay, when they arrived, the Russians were not too interested in meeting this envoy from a, let's face it, not real country. Yeah.

Sorry, the United States of what? Where? Who? Oh, Britain. Yes, yes, no, of course. You're Britain's colony, aren't you? Why do you look so angry? Calm down. So even when news reached them that the French and the US

had claimed a huge victory in Yorktown, it looked like the war was over. The War of Independence was won. The Russians still were not very welcoming, apparently. No. No. And then winter set in. Ooh.

Winter in Russia does not mess about. It does not. And this was a particularly cold Russian winter as well. At one point, John Quincy recorded that the temperature dropped to around minus 25 degrees Celsius. Wow. What would that be in Fahrenheit for American friends? Uh, cold. Damn, damn cold.

Let's find out. See, we're a good podcast like this. We go the extra mile. We find out the conversions. I'm going to say minus 30. Oh, you're not far off. It's about minus 32. Oh, wow. I got surprisingly

close there. That's quite impressive. That was a genuine stab in the dark. I didn't have a clue. The kind of temperature where you don't want to go to the toilet outside just in case it freezes up into you. Oh, no. That's horrible. go to the toilet outside just in case it freezes up into you. Oh!

Oh no, that's horrible. I don't think that's possible. I bet it's happened at some point. Cold enough that I bet there was a fad going round where lots of people were going outside, throwing boiling water in the air, recording themselves, and then the boiling water would drop on them and they'd scream.

And get all scolded. Second degree burns. That was going on them and they'd scream. And get all scalded. Yeah. Second degree burns. Yes. That was going on. End of the day. So yeah. As you can imagine, John Quincy is confined to indoors for most of the season. You just can't go outside.

Daddy, can I go build a snowman? No, you'll die! Please! Next door, build a snowman? No, that is our neighbour. He is dead. Well, fortunately for John Quincy, there was one English bookshop in the city

that he would brave to going. So he just made his way through the histories of many European countries and also read a lot of Cicero. Of course. High-fiving himself every time he turned a page. Oh, yeah! Romance.

And he also started learning German. He's in Russia. Why not? Well, they're all related. Inspired due to his journey through Berlin, I'm guessing. He wrote to his father to let him know that he was well and continuing his studies. Just to say, I'm doing alright, Dad.

I'm quite proud of myself, actually. I'm learning my third language. It's going well. It's easy. John Adams wrote back to say, your handwriting's not neat enough. Oh. That was the only thing in the letter. Pretty much, yeah.

It was awful. Oh. Yeah. I bet he made his handwriting neat, though, didn't he? I mean, he did also note that he should beware of Englishmen and preserve his innocence, which really makes it sound like he's worried that Englishmen are going to do certain things. I'd be close to chastity belt. Yeah.

Eventually, it's time for John Quincy to head back to his father. But he took the long route home. He was enjoying himself by this point. Instead of heading back through Germany, he decides to go through Scandinavia. Why not? He arrived in Stockholm at midnight one night. Unable to find anywhere, he slept in his carriage. But the next day, he looked around the city and fell in love with the place.

He spent several weeks there, apparently. Stopped writing in his diary entirely, so we don't really know what he got up to. But he would later call Sweden the land of lovely dames. Which, er... It kind of gives a hint of what happened in those five weeks. I certainly think we can infer from that. Yeah, he... He did take his father's advice, did he?

I don't think he did. I think he got to know at least one of the local dames, as he put it. That's brilliant. He was enjoying himself, shall we say. Eventually, he made his way back to his father, who was amazed at how much his son had grown into a young man. I seem to have a different look about you, John Quincy.

Yes, I do. You look glow. When you sit down, your legs seem to be slightly wider than before. So, yeah, John Adams had just completed the peace treaty with Britain, so John Quincy spends a while between France, Britain and Holland, just following his father around, basically. Not long afterwards, his mother and his sister Nabi arrived. A quote from Abigail here.

I drew back, not really believing my eyes, till he called out, Oh, Mama, and my dear sister. He had changed so much that his mother struggled to recognise him. Everyone can tell now. That cockiness about him. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Call me the love doctor. The Stockholm love doctor. Dr. Adams is in the house. He was like that all summer. It was awful. I have to give him some Valium just to calm him down. Can't give him cold showers every day. So the Adams then lived in Paris for a while.

And the young John Quincy became as much a celebrity as his father was. Who with? Well, everyone, really. He became well-known in French society. Also, Jefferson had turned up by this point. Okay. Yeah, so he was there, as was Franklin. He was still there.

Everyone got to know John Quincy. And everyone seemed to really quite like this mature and sensible and polite boy. He'd calmed down then. Yeah, he'd calmed down by this point. He'd stopped waving his sausage in the air and just sang, every time they sat down for a meal. It was good. So anyway, he started to move in social circles on his own, not following his father around. He dined with Lafayette and John Paul Jones, who was in the country at the time. Taking a break, obviously, from the Led Zeppelin tour. However, time was pressing, and John Quincy realised that despite the fact he'd been given a first-class education that would surpass any that the US at this time could currently give,

education that would surpass any that the US at this time could currently give. If he wanted to make anything of himself, he would have to enroll in a US university, namely Harvard. It's where everyone from Massachusetts went who was anyone. So he needed to head home and get into Harvard. His father wrote to the president of Harvard just to assure him that his son was more than capable and that he wouldn't need to start as a junior let him skip a couple of years the president of harvard did not like this didn't like this notes of me appearing saying my son's so great he doesn't need to start at the bottom presumptuous young upstart yeah exactly so uh john adams received a sharply worded reply that john quincy would have to sit the test if he wanted to enroll. John Adams wrote back asking that John Quincy's entry exam be in French because John Quincy was much better at

French by this point than English. Oh, I can only imagine the president of Harvard just tapping his fingers on the desk. Oh, really? John Adams did have some good qualities. Yeah. But he was ironically in some ways awful at politics. He obviously thought he was doing a good turn for his son here. He didn't realise that this would come across as a bit snobbish. A bit arrogant. A bit arrogant, yeah.

Anyway, John Quincy sets off for New York and landed after an uneventful trip. He found that he was a minor celebrity back at home when he landed. He soon met with the likes of John Jay, Albridge Jerry. Remember, he's the one who the whole gerrymandering got named after afterwards. I'd like to think he had his pet gerrymander at this point. Yeah. So John Quincy got to stroke the gerrymander. He met up with James Monroe at this time as well, had dinner with him,

just generally getting to know anyone who was anyone at the time. He spent a month in the capital, but wrote down his disappointments in his home country. Oh. He'd grown up in Europe, essentially, his teenage years. So he was a little bit disappointed, namely by the ladies. Yes. He wrote that the ladies seemed fake and affected

and very few could speak French, and even those who could chose not to. Yeah, by this point, he prefers French to English, basically. It's superior, more refined language to speak. I like the French ladies. So, it's time to head for Harvard and enrol. So John Quincy

toured the buildings and found the library to be good but not magnificent. I can't help but feel he maybe said this. Ah, this library is good, not magnificent. Yeah, he was even less impressed with the president of the college.

His name is Willard, and John Quincy viewed Willard as a man too serious in the study of mathematics. Did not appreciate the arts enough. Willard asked John Quincy a few questions in Greek and Latin. John Quincy answered, full of confidence. Willard then announced that John Quincy was not ready yet to enter Harvard, not even as a junior. Oh!

Yeah, this is really the first time John Quincy gets hit full in the face with real life. That's brilliant. He is essentially swan-free life at this point, just thinking he is the best. And Willard clearly does not like that fact. Good. He needs a hit back. Yeah, well. That's character building. You could argue. John Quincy

was stunned. He'd seen the interview as a mere formality, but that was probably the problem. Yeah. So he's forced to move in with family members. And to his credit, he starts studying. Well, if you're not going to let me in yet, I will you're not gonna let me in yet i will study until you let me in but he was very sulky for a while apparently and also very distracted by various young women who lodged with his auntie and uncle yes did his daughter have many missing entries for this period of time well no um, actually, it's not great. There's lots of entries where he's praising the women around him, but then lots of entries where he's quite angry with the women for being a distraction. There's one in particular who he flits between falling in love with

and despising, and it's all her fault. Of course. Yes. His auntie, realising that this is a problem, actually moves the poor woman. Yeah, it's not her fault. She gets moved, so it's not a distraction for John Quincy.

I will quote a bit of his diary here. Damsels of America are like portraits in crayons, which at a distance look well, but if you approach them, vile he also wrote that he kept his distance from the young women unsure whether to and i quote hate despise or pity all of womankind yeah you really get the feeling that his advances were spurned by someone around this time and he's um he's taking it out yeah yeah he writes to his sister a few

times saying women are awful his sister essentially writes back saying no they're not stop freaking them all out yes stop waving that sausage around put it down anyway soon enough it's time to take the exam and join the junior year for harvard this time john quincy had actually prepared and willard perhaps reluctantly allows him in if the previous few months were supposed to teach john quincy humility it kind of failed yeah yeah he was scathing about his new place of learning to begin with including uh the other students who he mostly saw as below him he wrote about two thirds of the class are behind, and then complained about having to wait for them to catch up with him.

Oh, he sounds very slappable, doesn't he? Yeah, no, this is either because he thought he was far better than he was, or he was far better than everyone else, and he just needs to learn how to be better and not come across like a tit. You really see that he is his father's son at times. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely do. Still, he does do very well at Harvard, and eventually teachers and students alike all respect him by the time he's graduated, so he seems to mellow a bit and does very well for himself. John Quincy then does what most people do in his position. Get drunk and party? No, well I'm sure he did that a bit but he then trained to be

a lawyer. Ah yes. Of course that's what he did. However the law did not interest him much and he spent most of his time writing poetry and reading a great new book that had recently been released called The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon. Good read

he thought. Not bad, this Roman stuff. He wished at the time that there was an easy-to-listen-to podcast about all emperors that goes in order. I lightheartedly ranked them all. But that just wasn't around back then. Based on certain abilities. Yeah, exactly. Or fighting, that sort of thing.

Yeah, it's what he wanted. It's what everyone wanted, really. It's what Gibbon wanted. The technology just wasn't there then. But now it is. Now do that someone definitely should do that so um and the poetry as well oh you love poetry the rest of his life he writes poetry which i didn't include them because i thought they'd bore you but apparently other people quite liked his poetry i met this lady in a bar she snubbed me snubbed me so far they were mainly about sweden okay yeah

oh the lady so as you can imagine he's hanging around he should be doing his lawyer studies he should be training but he's spending his time sitting under trees moping around writing poetry uh here's one quote from the time oh take me from this earth before i curse the day i was born oh that's teenage rubbish isn't it yeah yeah he's angsty emo rubbish full-on mopey young adult writing poetry mode at this point he dyed his hair black and everything definitely yeah so he's just very bored and a bit lost. But then his parents arrive home and things get a little bit more interesting. John Adams was now so famous, he was practically offered whatever job he wanted, bar the presidency, of course, because that's going to Washington.

We're a democracy now. So John Adams chose the vice presidency. I'll have that one. Thank you very much. So John Quincy watched as the country's government changed and Washington became their president and his father became the vice president. Shortly afterwards, he passed the bar and set up a lawyer's office. John Adams, lawyer. It said outside. Surely with that name outside, you're going to be raking at him no apparently not no he just wasn't doing very well I mean yes John Adams was a popular name but he wasn't the John Adams

who was he just someone who just passed the bar and it was hard being a lawyer back then because it was pretty much what everyone did when they finished Harvard the competition was tough yeah his father writes to him saying look i went through this period it was hard work eventually something will come you just need to wait for it be patient john quincy's not too happy about this

and becomes really quite depressed so perhaps in an attempt to cheer his son up john quincy is invited down to philadelphia where the government had just moved to. Now this was more like it, thought John Quincy, because once he arrived, once again he was in the company of men who were shaping the world. He was having dinner with the likes of Albert Sherry again, with his gerrymander. He was seeing Congress in action, and he even visited George and Martha Washington themselves for dinner. He had a brilliant time. However, once he was back in Boston,

things just became very depressing again very quickly. So, he suddenly had a direction. I hate being a lawyer. I want to be where it happens. I'm going to enter the world of politics. Thunderclap. Oh, yes. He starts by writing a series of essays under the name of Publicola.

Publius and Cola. No, from the Roman, famous Roman, Publicola. We will do an episode on him in our Roman Republic podcast at some point. He's one of the very, very early semi-mythical ones. Okay. Okay. Yes. But John Quincy gave himself a quick high five for the Roman reference, and then quickly wrote some essays. Now we've got his name. Let's do that. His essays supported Washington's decision to keep the US out of the hostilities between the French and Britain. They also argued against such giants as Thomas Paine and Jefferson.

Yeah. Even though he's quite friendly with Jefferson, he was still going to politically debate him in public, definitely. Yeah. So he supports Washington, the Federalists. He's from Massachusetts. This makes sense. The essay has become so popular that his name is soon famous throughout the country and even Europe. They made their way to Europe. A lot of people are reading his essays. Everyone is very impressed. He knows how to write, does John Quincy. That's quite impressive. Oh yes. Now the popularity of these essays and his name, obviously he's John Adams, son of John Adams, convinced many that he should join various local government committees. He's got his way in. Yes, soon enough he's John Adams, son of John Adams, convinced many that he should join various local government committees.

He's got his way in. Yeah, soon enough, he's doing local government. I think that's how they describe it. So he did various things at this point on the local government level. Braintree, for example, his place of birth, wanted to convert from a parish into a town. Obviously, that needs some legal work. You need to change the sign. Well work and um you need to change the sign

well yeah you need to change the sign but you also needed to change the name from braintree or from braintree to quincy oh named after his grandfather of course of course of course quincy you say interesting choice oh yes named after my grandfather. Honest. Well, yes, that is a very nice choice, John Quincy. Very nice. So, yes, it's Quincy to this day. Anyway, John Quincy does well for a while,

writing against Citizen Jeunet's actions when he turned up. Remember, that was the French hand grenade of a politician who arrived. So he was writing against him. However, his father was not very pleased. His father was worried that his son was focusing on the fame of writing newspaper articles, rather than building up his law firm. Getting

carried away. This fame will be fleeting, son. You need to buckle down and become a lawyer. However, merely days after John Quincy had received a letter from his father telling him this, in no uncertain terms, he received a second letter. Washington had chosen him to become the ambassador to the Netherlands. Oh.

Yeah, apparently John Quincy reacted with anger. Don't want to go there. Well, he believed his father had got him the post. And John Quincy was very annoyed by this. He'd make it by his own merit, damn it. But once John Adams convinced his son that he knew nothing about this appointment whatsoever, John Quincy cheered up and accepted.

John Quincy not understanding how nepotism works. Of course you got it because you were John Adams' son. But never mind. With your obviously successful career as a failing lawyer. Yes. Anyway, John Quincy spent several months researching with the Secretary of State. And then before he set off, he was given a chest of secret documents to give to John Jay, who was currently in Britain organising the Jay Treaty.

Okay. So this is that time. Monroe's about to head off to France and annoy Jay whilst he's doing the treaty. So we're in that period of time. So John Quincy sets off with his youngest brother in tow. He arrived in England in October and headed off to see Jay with his secret documents

that were in a secret case. Had a secret label on them. Yeah, a big top secret label. Do not open this case. It's secret. Yeah, seriously. Serious stuff. Anyway, they're crossing the London Bridge. And at this point, the carriage suddenly rattled violently. They stop.

They get off to inspect. They found that someone had cut through the straps of the top secret chest containing the top secret documents. Fortunately for John Quincy, the chest was on the road still with all the documents in it. They'd obviously been scared off, whoever was trying to steal them. But this was a very quick awakening to the world of diplomacy for this brand new ambassador. This isn't all about balls and parties.

You need to be on your toes here. So he meets with Jay and they discuss the treaty he was negotiating. And John Quincy and his brother then moved on to the Netherlands. He arrived a couple of months before the French army walked into the country and took it over. Oh dear. I bet he loved that though. Oh well, I mean, this is literally

walking into the country and taking it over. There was very, very little fighting. It had such little effect on John Quincy that the day after the invasion he went to the theatre. Life just continued as normal pretty much. He then arranged with the French general

at the time and just said, I'm the American ambassador. The Americans are alright here, aren't they? And the reply was, yeah, we love America. It's fine. We've got Monroe back at our place at the moment. He's great. Do you think the Dutch army just said, head for the high ground? And they just kept running. Yes, that's exactly what happened.

So John Quincy spends his time observing and writing reports, spending up to six hours a day writing. He observed that the war between France and Britain would drain the strongest empires of the world and leave the US in a stronger position. So actually, let them fight. Washington's neutrality is perfect. Still, he had some spare time, so he learned Spanish, like you do, and generally reassured other diplomats that the US were going to be staying out of this. After doing a very decent job in the Netherlands, John Quincy got some new orders. He was to go to London and oversee the signing of the Jay Treaty,

as Jay had left and Pinckney, who had replaced him, had gone to Spain to negotiate navigation rights on the Mississippi. So everyone's moving about a bit in Europe and they haven't got too many diplomats. So if you could go over to London, John, that'll be great. Go and oversee the Jace Treaty signing. However, due to various reasons, it took John Quincy a month to get to London, a journey that should only have taken a couple of days. So he's a bit late. By that time, the signing had been done, apart from the ceremonial presentation right at the end. Now, as we've seen, the French did not take the Jay Treaty well.

No. No, they saw this as the US siding with the British. Diplomatic relations broke down, and Monroe, who's in France, loving life, was recalled. He had not managed to keep the French happy after the Jay Treaty. If you remember his episode, he pointed out, of course they're frustrated by this. Meanwhile, however, John Quincy was quite enjoying England. He went sightseeing. He went to hear the debates in the House of Commons. He generally saw what England had to offer. He also, at one point, went to visit a wealthy merchant from Maryland who had a house near the Tower of London.

It was their eldest daughter's birthday and who better to invite than the son of the vice president? Yeah. Yeah, if he's in the country, why not invite him over? John Quincy enjoyed the evening. Did he? Oh yes, he danced till three in the morning apparently. Wow. Yes, this family had three daughters.

Ah. Yes. Oh. All of them, this family had three daughters. Ah. Yes. Oh. All of them he took a shining to. Oh, dear. Not that much. Okay. There's no suggestion of that.

However, John Quincy did find excuses to visit almost daily afterwards, spending a lot of time with the three daughters. It was obvious to everyone that courtship had begun. It just wasn't quite clear who wins. All three. Well, most assumed it was the eldest daughter. That just made sense. But John Quincy surprised many when he announced that he wished to marry the second daughter, Louisa. John Quincy's mother, Abigail, getting only hints that he'd met someone in England, was horrified. My son and an English woman. Remember the letter your father wrote? Beware English men.

Well, I quote here, I hope that the siren is at least half blood. Yeah, not great. Yeah, I mean, she was cheered when she found out that, although Louisa was herself born in England, they're obviously two American parents. So that cheered her up slightly. John Adams, however, was more carefree and told his wife that love knows no boundaries. And I quote here,

Witness Caesar and Antony with Cleopatra. And then the two of them did a high five. And, yeah. Woman! Yeah, and generally they cheered up about the idea of John Quincy marrying Louisa, which is nice. Louisa wanted to marry straight away. However, John Quincy would not consider it.

No, not until he was financially independent. Now, the plan was to finish his first stint as ambassador in the Netherlands and then go back home and make something of the law firm that he'd set up. So he left his fiancée, headed back to Amsterdam. Again he went back to his duties. Again he had some spare time so he learned Italian and Dutch, which is nice. He was also worried that his Latin was going to get rusty, so he translated a page of Tacitus into French every day. Wow. Yeah. Then came some great news. Washington

had decided to give him a new assignment. He was going to go to Lisbon in Portugal and represent the US there. Learn some Portuguese. It's like, damn it, the one language I've learned. Yeah, I mean, this is great.

Portugal, lovely weather. It's not too high-pressured. Piri-piri chicken. Piri-piri chicken. Rioja. Port. Oh, yes. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, lots of lovely stuff. And his wages doubled. Even better. Yeah, exactly. That was fantastic because he can now afford to marry Luisa. He didn't have to go back home and raise money anymore. He felt he could be independent at marry Louisa. He didn't have to go back home and raise money anymore. He thought he could be independent at last.

This was fantastic. Lovely, sunny post, double his wages with a brand new wife. Things are looking good. He was, however, slightly nervous about being away from his homeland for so long. He still wanted to make progress in politics over there. That was his idea. Go to Europe, get experience, go back home. But his father reassured him, the elections are coming up. And John Adams wrote to his son, if Jefferson, Henry, Jay, Hamilton or Pinckney should be elected, your honour and promotion will be no hazard.

In other words, look, everyone loves you. It doesn't matter what side of the divide they're on. Everyone thinks you're great. You'll still get your Portugal post. Don't worry. John Adams also reassured his son that even if he himself became the next president, he would not feign a disinterest in his son's career so much that it would hurt him. Yes. I'll throw you a bone. Yes. Sure enough, John Adams did win the election and John Quincy's father became president. Abigail wrote to her son, warning him not to ask for any special treatment, as that would harm both him and his father. John Quincy answered, incredibly insulted that his own mother thought he would do such a thing. How dare you! Do you think I'm an idiot? Of course I wouldn't do that. Of course I wouldn't do that.

Shortly afterwards, John Quincy had paid a couple of thousand dollars to secure all his belongings on a ship to Lisbon to be set up ready for when he arrived. Everything was set up for him to go. All they needed to do was get married in London and then move to Portugal. Sounds simple. But he then receives a letter. Yeah. He was no longer going to Lisbon, but Berlin instead.

Ach, nein. Yes. Annoyed. I mean, it's just not sunny Portugal, is it? he was no longer going to Lisbon but Berlin instead ah nein annoyed I mean it's just not sunny Portugal is it and also he'd literally just sent all his belongings off and spent thousands of dollars to do it yeah but still what can you do he accepted the post

and then the wedding was on in the summer of 1797 John Quincy marries Louisa in London the couple go on a. In the summer of 1797, John Quincy marries Louisa in London. Oh. The couple go on a honeymoon in the countryside of England and then return to London, ready to head to Berlin. However, in London, an angry mob met them. Oh. Yeah, that's not great.

It turned out Louisa's father's business had gone under. Oh, dear. And he'd fled the country. Oh, dear. Owing a lot of people a lot of money. Oh dear. And they all turned to John Quincy and went, your father-in-law owes us money.

Okay, I don't know. Bye! Yeah. Things got heated a bit. Now, they managed to escape from the crowd, but Louisa was accused by many as duping John Quincy into marrying her because she knew of the family's troubles. And it was just to try and get money off John Quincy.

How likely? Doesn't seem likely at all. John Quincy totally ignores this and sticks by his wife. Good. Yeah. Oh, he does have some morals. But other problems are occurring. His appointment in Prussia was still on hold.

Berlin, obviously, not capital of Germany at this time, capital of Prussia. Of course, yeah. Yes, yeah. So they're all ready to go. They're all ready to go off to Berlin, but it turned out that back home many did not like the fact that the president was giving his son the big jobs in Europe. Nepotism. Well, yeah, exactly.

Some claimed that this nepotism was too close to a monarchy. But he's done a good job so far. He has, but why has he done a good job? Yeah. He's done a good job because he's the son of John Adams. Someone else could do a better job. So, who knows? John Quincy, furious about this, obviously.

How dare people insinuate that he had not got to where he was on his own merits. His touring Europe as a child and getting to know all the leading politicians of his age was nothing to do with the fact that his father was John Adams. Certainly not. No, he just worked harder than everyone else. That's why. Yeah. Yeah.

He is suffering from the same misconceptions that most do who benefit from nepotism. Definitely. I think that he has worked hard and i do think he genuinely feels i have worked really hard but they do put f into things this is it but the thing is just because you work hard it doesn't mean that you've not also benefited from being a member of a powerful family so you've got both that's and yes he clearly has worked very hard and he is clearly qualified to do the job. But so are other people. And he's been chosen because he's the son of the president.

And this is meant to be a new republic. You can see why there are some doubts here. Eventually, however, his appointment does get pushed through. Washington, behind the scenes, is saying, no, no, this was my decision. I want him over there. And Washington's still got a lot of sway. So it does go through. And the Adamses move to Berlin. They were stopped at the city gates, however, as they were arriving by a lieutenant who wanted to know who they were.

John Quincy replied, I'm the new ambassador for the United States. The lieutenant replied, where? Sorry? The United States. He'd never heard of the place and wasn't going to let them in. Fortunately for him, one of his soldiers who worked under him was kept up to date with current affairs a bit better. No, sir, new country.

New country being invented. Next colony of the British. Oh, you mean the colonies. Frown, frown. Come on in. Why do you look so angry? Eventually they get mean the colonies. Frown, frown. Come on in. Why do you look so angry? Eventually, they get into the city. There were a few problems, however.

They were envoys there to speak with King Frederick William II. But he was dead. That's a bit of a downer. It is a bit of a downer. He just died. All their paperwork had his name on it. Five minutes before. Yeah. Well, they had to send off to Philadelphia for updated paperwork, is a bit of a downer he just died all their paperwork had his name on it so yeah well they

had to send off to philadelphia for updated paperwork which had king frederick william the third written on it can they just add an extra yeah i know that i thought exactly the same it's literally one line just write the line because that's gonna take what three four months yeah send back and get oh yeah well and another month to sort out in the US. That's like half a year. Yeah, you just know in the new Congress that is at least a week debate, that is. Yeah. Then you've got someone to write it up. Yeah. They can make mistakes.

Can we just add the line? Is that alright? Or do we need to rewrite the whole document? That's, see, that's sensible, Samuel. Yes, of course. Add the extra I on, it's fine. They could have just added the ion there. Samuel, shut up. You're ruining our new democracy.

Yeah, so it took a while to get everything going. It also took a long time for all their stuff to arrive. Yeah, yeah. Which is, yeah, yeah. It eventually does arrive, though, and they settle in. And once they do, everything is great. The royal court embraced them like they were prince and princess. and they settle in. And once they do, everything is great. The royal court embraced them like they were prince and princess.

Evenings were filled with balls and parties. Louisa was pregnant, and all was well. She's pregnant! Yes, everything is really nice. They seem to have a really good time here. However. Yeah, of course. Yeah, the good times don't last.

Louisa miscarries. Aww. Not once, but four times in a row. Yeah, this puts a bit of a strain on their relationship. Louisa, very depressed, had made friends with the Queen of Prussia. And the Queen of Prussia had suggested that a bit of makeup would bring out the colour in her face. It's what all the ladies in the Prussian court wore. You look very pale and depressed.

Look, I'll put a bit of makeup on you. You join in. You cheer up. We can have a party. Oh. You're looking shocked. No, the makeup is the bad kind. What do you mean by the bad kind? Lead-based poison. Oh, no, no, no. No?

No, don't worry. She's not going to get lead poisoning and die it's small parts and death no um slightly death deathy but still quite quite sad because john quincy sees his wife with makeup on for the first time and loudly declared that only fallen women wear makeup forcibly grabbed his wife and washed the makeup off. The two of them are not happy with each other. You can tell there's a huge strain on the relationship. A few months later, so the miscarriages are still going on,

Louisa, very, very down, is starting to be teased about her pale complexion at court. Oh. Yeah. The Queen of Prussia again says, look, just put some makeup on. A bit of blusher. Yeah, exactly. We all do it

and you'll fit in. This time, when John Quincy sees her, she reacts angrily when he demands that she takes it off. Stands up for herself and John Quincy storms out to the evening without her. Not great.

The two later do seem to get over this period of tension, definitely, but there is a period of time where the two are very unhappy with each other. Understandably, it's a tough period to go through for a young couple in a brand-new city. Now, just to route you into the history of the United States here so we know roughly what time we're in, xyz affairs going on at this time yes and um john quincy in his role as being a diplomat in europe is able to actually provide some of the information for his father uh about what's going on there so he's still getting on with his job he spends his time writing reports

and informing his father on the rise of this napoleon fella uh news of washington's death then reaches him which really depresses him as you can probably tell by this point john quincy suffers from depression quite a bit yeah he does overthink things and he's generally having a bit of a miserable time especially as during a New Year's Eve party, 1799 turning into the year 1800 nonetheless. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big one. They go out for their New Year's Eve party and one of the guests, halfway through a sentence, suddenly drops dead without so much of a cry or a gasp.

This really freaks John Quincy out. It would. Yes. Yeah, he's heard that George Washington's dead. Someone just dropped dead in front of him. Death seems to be everywhere. His wife keeps getting pregnant and losing the

children. And I guess it's going to stem a lot from his childhood as well, seeing all those soldiers being mowed down. Who knows? Quite possibly. It's a rough time. It really is. Then he hears that his father's lost the election. And Jefferson was now the president. So, in an attempt to cheer themselves up,

the Adamses have a holiday. They go on tour of the region. And, if there was any problems in the relationship, they seem to patch things up here. Louisa's pregnant yet again. The Prussian king, obviously involved by this point, he's seen all this happen, and the king and queen have come close to John Quincy and Louisa. So the Prussian king bans all traffic on the street where the Adams stayed.

It's calm there. Yeah, exactly. Louisa will have complete peace in my city. Now, whether it's because the Prussian king banned the traffic or not, who knows? But this time, the pregnancy results in a birth. Oh! Yes. A son named George Washington.

Yes, George Washington Adams. By this time, he'd received a letter recalling him to the US. So after goodbyes with their friends, the king and queen, the Adamses and their infant son sail for home. Bad news, however, awaited them when they reached Philadelphia. John Quincy's brother Charles had died due to drink problems. Oh, he's, yeah. Yeah, you may remember in John Adams' episode, he receives this news just before he loses his presidency. Yeah. Yeah, so sad news there. But the good news

is they have their little child, their little son, and they go around visiting as many family members as possible, showing off their son. John Quincy, eventually, after spending several months doing this, the family moved to Boston. John Quincy attempts to set up his law firm again. That was always the plan. However, it turned out that the work was just as dull as he remembered it to be. If you think about it, he has just come from Berlin, where he was friends with a king and was essentially treated like royalty. That's true. He's now finding himself in an office in Boston.

He had the high life. He had the sausages, which I'm sure many jokes about. He had the caviar, which I've probably made more jokes about. The melons. Quite possibly. Who knows what they had over there. Everything over there. It was the high life, and now he's in his office in Boston.

Yeah. It's all grey now. Yeah, it's not grey. It just rains non-stop. So, he was soon signing up for all sorts of things to distract himself. He's struggling again with the depression possibly here. So, he signs up to become a volunteer fireman. Yes.

Just imagine the interview there. So, you want to volunteer to be volunteer fireman. Yes. Just imagine the interview there. So you want to volunteer to be a fireman? Yes, yes, I think it would be great. Any experience putting out fires? Diplomatic fires? Figurative fires. Not really what we're looking for, sorry. I've got my own bucket.

Well, by 1802, he'd worked his way into being elected to the state senate on a federalist ticket. He's still got the dream of going into politics here. So he's now on the senate of the state. This isn't the national senate, but this is local politics. While here, he managed to annoy literally everyone. Because he did not follow party lines. By this point, it's very entrenched. You've got Federalists and you've got Republicans.

John Quincy wasn't having any of this. Just a crossover of different things. Yeah, well he was far too Republican for Federalists and far too Federalist for Republicans. Oh dear. No one could really trust him to vote a certain way. He became a bit of a maverick. So in a way to get rid of this very

annoying member amongst their ranks, many suggested that he run for Congress. Why didn't you go and do that? Why didn't you go to the national stage for a bit, John? Please. You'd be great at that. So John Quincy goes for it, but saw campaigning as beneath him, obviously.

So out of the nearly 4,000 votes, he lost by 59. Oh. Very close, yeah. There was a collective groan around the state senate. Oh, no. It's okay, it's okay.

Let's tell him to run for the national senate. Let's see if he goes for that. So that's what they do. And undeterred, John Quincy, sure enough, does run for the senate. And this time, he is elected. Also, Louisa gives birth run for the Senate. And this time, he is elected. Oh. Also, Louisa gives birth to a second child. Oh.

Called John Adams II. Oh. What? No. Yeah, a bit worth that. Named after his grandfather, John Adams. So he'd be the third? Yeah, but he's John Quincy Adams. That's just his middle name, though.

It's a bit weird, isn't it? This is stupid. Yes, the awful naming curse strikes yet again. Anyway, the family then move to Washington. Washington's set up at this point. So they head on over. They board a boat with all their belongings on. Very exciting.

Little George Washington then threw his shoes over the side of the boat. That's how much that cost us! Quite possibly. Let's hope not, though, because it was about to get worse, because he then threw a bunch of keys that opened all the trunks overboard as well. Frustrating journey. They stop in New York on the way. It's been a light relief.

New York. Yeah. Huge It's been a light relief. New York. Yeah. Huge city. Bustling city. Oh, everyone's dying of yellow fever. Quick, get out of here. Oh dear, that wasn't great. So they move on quickly. Finally, they get to Washington. And again, we have the descriptions of snakes, huts, bunches of buildings, no pavements, mud roads, a cow standing right next to the White House, that kind of thing. Shrubbing on the grass. Yeah. So a bit rural. Yeah.

Now, as we've seen before, there weren't many places that you could live that was comfortable inside the so-called city. So what most people did, if they could, is live in a house outside the city somewhere. And travel in. And travel in, yes. And this is what the Adamses do. They move to a large house that belonged to Louisa's brother-in-law, just outside the city. And life was very easy to begin with. The Senate sat for an amazing two to three hours a day.

Oh, nice. Oh, yes. It took John Quincy a leisurely 45-minute stroll to get to the Capitol building each day. Really appreciated that. Yeah, and that was it. That was his work life. That would be amazing.

Yes. He made a few friends, including the Secretary of State to Madison. They both bonded over their chess games they had together. Oh. Yeah. Louisa learnt to ride, and the two of them went out often together. They became closer than they'd ever been before. The rift that they had early on seems to have fixed by this point. I guess everything's just a bit better generally. Yeah, definitely. He's got out

of his dark patch for now. However, after a few weeks, John Quincy hits his first snag. The Louisiana Purchase was brought to the floor to discuss. Now, as we've seen, most Federalists, who were mostly based in the North, saw this as an expansion of the South that did very little to help them. They were opposed. However, John Quincy, who was never particularly tied to a party, yes, he was technically a Federalist, but yeah, he quite liked the idea of the Louisiana Purchase. I quote here,

The United States is destined by God to become the most populous and powerful people ever combined under one social compact. He sees a bright future for his country, and he thinks expanding the land will help this. So in order to help the purchase seem constitutionally legitimate, he suggested the phrase, and I quote, with the assent of the French government be included into the document. He claimed that this changed it from an illegal purchase agreement into a legal treaty with a foreign power. This isn't us buying something, this is the French government agreeing that we do this. Yeah, okay. A very subtle distinction which is dubious legally, but it's a new country, everything's dubious legally. Yeah, and this does enough to convince a lot of senators

that actually, yes, we can go through with this. He was highly praised by the Republicans. He was denounced as a traitor by the Federalists. It did not help his image that he and Louisa would quite often attend dinners with Jefferson, the Republican president. However, if anyone thought that this was confirmation that John Quincy had switched political sides, he then confounded everyone by voting against Jefferson's attempts to tax people in the Louisiana Territory and then appoint officials there. See, it seems like to me he's doing what most politicians don't do.

He's voting on what he feels is right, rather than party loyalty. Exactly. Which is what they should do. Yeah, he's got his own principles. They just didn't happen to line up with either party. But that's okay. Yeah.

Politicians should understand that. Your party might have a line. I understand that you're trying to get into power, so you've got to appear to be united to get that. But vote for what you think is best, not what you think your party thinks is best. They might be wrong. Exactly, and this is what Washington was

pushing. He hated party politics. This is what Monroe was pushing. Yeah. This idea of party politics being damaging to democracy. And it really was. At this time. And it is. And you can definitely see how it can be right now. It's so easy to manipulate.

Yeah, so John Quincy was... Sorry, I'm not so involved. So John Quincy was having none of his party politics, essentially. He was voting for what he believed in. So just like in the state politics, senators soon became very wary of John Quincy. They never knew which way he was going to vote. You could never really pin him down.

So they grew very frustrated. One example here. It was suggested that the Senate wear black armbands after the death of none other than Samuel Adams, a family member of his. The beer maker. The beer maker, yes. They were all very sad that the beer maker was gone, so they were going to wear their black armbands. John Quincy, to the surprise of many, objected to this.

It's his own family member. But John argued that the Senate did not have the power to insist upon members wearing black armbands. And pointed out that by discussing matters such as these, the Senate was wasting their time when they really should be discussing things that were more important, such as the running of the country. We're not here to talk about armbands. He must be getting on very well with Sensible Samuel. Oh, yes, Sensible Samuel was loving this.

He was there, open mouth, slack jawed, Sensible Samuel was. This is amazing. This makes sense. Well done, sir. Well done. Stop clapping, Samuel. Yes, I quote here. I then objected to the employment of the Senate's time and debates altogether forging to the subjects which properly belong to them.

Or in other words, I objected to the subjects which properly belong to them. Or in other words, I objected to the fact that we're debating stupid things. We're wasting our time here. He then wryly noted, and I quote, this led to a debate that lasted three hours. Oh, for goodness sake. He was just frustrated at how useless the Senate were. Nice to see how things have changed. Yes, good. Yes. He also fully believed that the government should be doing things, crazy things, like helping the nation progress.

For example, he had, after all, spent many years of his life in Europe and was more aware than most just how behind the infrastructure in the US was. Everyone else was just amazed that they'd won independence and they were doing all right for themselves, whereas John Quincy was looking around going, this isn't right, guys. There's four sheep literally outside the window right now looking in. One's chewing off a plaster. Yeah.

It doesn't seem professional to me. It's bad images. Come on. The goats got inside. Been nominated honorary senator. Yes. So he was all for crazy ideas such as the government helping to build roads and canals. That's less increased infrastructure. Exactly. Almost all senators at this time believed that this would be an intrusion of state powers. This is not the job

of a national government. John Quincy's proposals for such a move in this direction was defeated without even a debate. No one wanted to listen, apart from Sir Samuel, who followed him around with maps. I've drawn maps. This is brilliant. Look what we could do. Look what we accomplished. It's a brilliant idea. So John Quincy declared that most Federalists

now hated him more than they loved any principle. And then some shocking news hit him. A bank in London, where he had a considerable amount of money, had collapsed. Literally? Unfortunately not, no. He lost a lot of money here. Oh dear.

So he suddenly needed to save money. One way to cut back on expenses was to stop the move between Washington and Quincy that was happening twice a year. Louisa didn't like this idea, however, and the two fell out. John Quincy announced that she would have to choose. You can live in Washington or you can live in Quincy. Now, John clearly wanted his wife and children to live at home in Quincy, and then he could have his own life in Washington, do all the politics stuff,

and then go back and visit his family. So you think he was sort of bluffing? Yeah, I think so. I think he wanted the bachelor life like many politicians had. I'm guessing this spectacularly backfires on him. She calls him out on his bluff. Oh, yes, because Louisa announced that she would therefore stay in Washington all year round with her sister and brother-in-law. John Quincy could go home without them.

Brilliant! Fine! Wonderful! Well, John accused his wife of disloyalty she snapped back that she preferred a separation from him than a separation from her sister burn john quincy at that point looked a bit upset so louisa thought this is the perfect time to twist the knife and informed him that little John Adams, too, was now calling any man he saw Papa. Oh, that's brutal. The two separated for a while. Yeah, there's problems again. But they were then both soon very miserable and were soon writing to each other, announcing that they forgive each other. They seem like a fiery couple.

Yeah, definitely. Well, John Quincy starts writing some, shall we say, saucy literature. Ooh. Yeah, he starts quoting poems that just mention the fact that she's undressed, basically. She quite likes that. They make up. I imagine you without your petticoat as I sit here writing this, staring at this goat. Yes, his poetry hasn't improved, unfortunately. No. And then there was some big news in the capital.

Because Aaron Burr had shot and killed Alexander Hamilton. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Apparently they wrote a musical about it. They did. The very next day, someone was on that like a shot. The dunch. Yes, which everyone just thought was very inappropriate. Poor was on that like a shot. Ba-dum-tsh. Yes, which everyone just thought was very inappropriate.

Poor taste, poor taste, man. It's not even cold. Burr had ran away. He'd been indicted for murder. John Quincy, therefore, was as shocked as everyone else when the Senate reconvened because Burr strode into the room as if nothing had happened. Hi, guys!

Why the long faces? What do you guys get up to during the recess, then? I created a musical. Created, inspired, potato, potato. Yeah, so that was all the news for a while. John Quincy saw this as an outrageous abuse of power. He was also getting increasingly annoyed with the executive sessions, shall we call them, that were going on.

Increasingly, the Senate would meet, declare an executive session, and then all go off to the races or whatever was going on that day. That sounds brilliant. Yeah. All right, we'll declare an executive session, pub? Yeah. The two to three hours a day was obviously too taxing for them. Yeah. I mean, this charade that went on was just so it looked like they were doing something, because officially the Senate had met. Yeah. Yeah. It's a minuted look. Everyone would vote to have an executive session. John Quincy was the only member to vote against this.

He was not making friends. The sensible Samuel just applauding from the background. Well done, sir! Tears coming down his cheek. This is how it should be! This is politics, sir! This is politics! Yeah, he's just generally getting frustrated.

But some good news came through. Harvard contacted him. They wanted John Quincy to be professor of oratory and rhetoric. Ooh. Which sounded very Roman, so he gave himself a high five. He worked out a timetable that would allow him to teach when the Senate was not in session. So he spent a while brushing up on his Cicero and his Aristotle, whilst he was also dining with Jefferson and Madison,

and just generally hobnobbing with the hobnobs. After this, he split his time between Harvard and government. All the while, tensions with Britain under Jefferson's government was rising. US ships were being lost, and the British and the French's diplomacy between the two great empires fell apart once more. Jefferson, thinking he could force Britain and France to back down a little bit, decided that a trading embargo would be a great idea about now.

Wonderful idea. Yeah. However, as we have seen, it wasn't. It was not a great idea at all. John Quincy, however, was the only Federalist in the Senate who did like the idea. Yes, he...

That's all Samuel. No, Samuel! No! I trusted you! Heartbreaking. He went home and just wept into his sensible pillow. Grey. Yeah, John Quincy thought that this embargo was the middle ground between a suicidal war with Britain and just laying down and surrendering.

He figured... He wasn't buying it. Yeah, yeah. He figured that by now the US was self-sufficient and would be able to weather this better than Europe. He, Jefferson and Madison were wrong. Political isolation more than ever before followed. Although the birth of his third son, Charles,

must have cheered him up slightly. Oh, in need of his brother. Yes, exactly. However, the collapse of the US economy was happening all around them. It really wasn't great. Jefferson was being blamed by most people. But in Boston, it was John Quincy's name that was mud. Ooh.

And I quote here, Most completely was I deserted by my friends in Boston. Well, John Quincy then attended the Republican caucus to witness his friend Madison elected as their nomination for president. Did he get it? Madison, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. As in he's now a elected as their nomination for president. Does he get it? Madison, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

As in he's now a nomination to be the next president. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this is John Quincy, the Federalist, hanging out with the Republicans, choosing who's going to be their next president. Oh. I didn't see that one. That could be a problem.

This pretty much ends all pretense that he was still a Federalist. John, by this point, essentially thought the federalists were secretly plotting secession from the union. Massachusetts, therefore, elected the successor to John Quincy. The slight rub being that John Quincy had almost a year left in his post. Not so subtle hints that he needed to leave. Yeah, he got the hint and he resigned. Many Republicans wanted him to join the Senate for them, but John had had enough by this point and decided to retire. I love that. They always retire way before they become president.

Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. However, it was not long before John receives a letter from the new president, Madison. How would you, John, like to become a US ambassador again. This time to Russia. John accepted so quickly he didn't even tell Louisa. You bet. You didn't read half the letter.

Would you like to become a Russian ambassador? Yes. Yes, I do. I want that more than anything I've ever wanted, please. Yeah, Louisa wasn't best pleased. She was really quite annoyed. She's either nine months... No, she's got a child. She's got, like, a newborn kid.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's annoying. She's got a young family she's looking after. She's eventually built up her life in the United States. She does not want to travel. John Quincy admitted that there were many reasons to stay behind. The age of his parents. If they left, there's a good chance he'd never see his parents again.

The age of his children. They could not guarantee an English education in Russia, so two of them at least would have to stay behind. Yeah. That's not great. He also has ties to Hartford. He's still doing his teaching job on the side, so he really should stay. However, on the other side, he had a duty. A duty to serve his country. However, you can't help but think he was perhaps thinking of the time he spent in Berlin, where he was treated like royalty. And at the moment, he's just lost his government job. He's looking at that cold office again.

All his law papers. Yeah, he's thinking of the time he was in St. Petersburg as a child. All that vodka. Yeah. You know what? Maybe I'll go there. It was John Quincy alone, however, who seemed to look forward to this post. Louisa would be going with him,

and so would their very youngest, the little baby infant Charles. But George and John were nine and six, and they would have to be left behind. So newborn, going, with wife, but two other to be left behind. So newborn going with wife but two other children are staying behind. Yes, that's it. So August 1809, John, Louisa and little Charles, along with

Louisa's sister, John Quincy's nephew and a handful of his students. Road trip! You seriously don't want to be taking students on a road trip to Russia. You really don't want to be taking students on a road trip to Russia. You really don't. You really don't. They're waiting on the docks.

Yeah. All of them ready, apart from three of the students. Hungover. They rock up, hungover. One with a cone on his head, the other with a stuffed donkey under his arm. Staring at the boat that just recently sailed away. Yeah. Oh.

It was a calm sea voyage, apparently, and they landed in Denmark without any trouble. That's not Russia. No, they missed. But it's okay, it's close. Ish. Well, they had to stop off at Denmark. It was a planned route on the journey.

John was horrified when he landed when he saw around 400 US sailors under captivity. That's not great, he pointed out to several of the local politicians. Do they know that they're American? Well, John did make some noise about this, but there's very little he could do. He's not officially in Denmark for any reason. See, that's his problem. He's making noises rather than talking. That would be his problem. Yeah's making noises rather than talking. That would be his problem.

Yeah, didn't go down well. Yeah, so they just had to leave them there in their cages. That's a bit sad. Sorry. Long live the USA. Ooh. Patriotism. So they get on another boat. They sail into the Gulf of Finland. They land in Russia

only days before the Russian winter sweeps in and froze the sea. They were running late, and they just made it in time. They land in Russia in a very interesting time, because the Europe John Quincy entered was a very different one to the one they'd left behind a decade before. The last time he was in Europe, Napoleon was on the run after suffering defeat in Egypt. However, Napoleon was on the rise again now, and had almost all the countries of Europe either ruled by him, dependent on him, or allied by him. This is Napoleon at his height.

He had been crowned by the Pope as Emperor for life. Britain was the only real power left to fight Napoleon and they controlled the seas, taking out all of the ships that they thought posed a danger. That obviously is French ships but also ships that claimed to be neutral but couldn't be trusted. That included US ships and Russian ships. This is why Adams is over there, because Madison had seen this and wanted John to use this as a way to bring America and Russia together. Both our ships are being preyed upon, maybe we can use this to forge closer ties, cut out the middleman, and improve our trade between

the two countries. So Madison had chosen John Quincy because he's the son of an ex-president, and that means he carried some weight. It was a good choice. Because once John reached St. Petersburg, unlike the time he was there as a teenager, he was issued straight away into seeing the Tsar. This is Tsar Alexander at the time. Now, Alexander was a modern man for his times.

He was well-educated. He had visions for the future of Russia. And the two men hit it off straight away, really quite well. Alexander took Adams in his arm and gave him a tour of the imperial palace. The fact that he was touching a commoner was a noted diplomatic win for John. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. Equally, Louisa got on brilliantly with the Tsar's wife. The royal couple also completely fell in love with little baby Charles. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. Equally, Louisa got on brilliantly with the Tsar's wife. The royal couple also completely fell in love with little baby Charles. Yeah, they really like Charles.

So everything's really great. If John Quincy had been thinking of his time in Berlin when he'd accepted the post, his dreams had come true. He's been treated like royalty yet again. Louisa commented that the whole thing, from the setting to the food to the balls was something like a fairy tale. Life is good. Little did they know that Napoleon

was about to invade. He made Russia. Oh, yes. All that fails. I know enough history to know that. That is a spoiler for next week, though, because that is where we're going to leave it for today. So there we go. That is the first half of John, though, because that is where we're going to leave it for today. So there we go.

That is the first half of John Adams. What do you think? He's very interesting. He's an interesting personality. He's got that sort of the arrogance I really enjoy listening about. But you know, if you met him, oh, he'd wind you up. Yeah, quite possibly. Anyway, we will find out what happens next time

thank you very much for listening before we go this week we do have an apology to make cue piano we try our hardest

on this podcast we we strive for historical accuracy but occasionally we do make mistakes and last time Jamie made one.

I announced quite confidently that my knowledge of rose growing was accurate. However, one of our listeners, Ryan, who has actually been growing roses, I've never grown a rose in my life, who has actually been growing roses, I've never grown a rose in my life, said that they don't need to be changed every few years because they don't support the nutrients out from the ground. Despite Wikipedia saying you need to put a few things into the ground over and over again, but you don't need to rotate them from the ground they live in. So, Ryan was correct. So thank you, Ryan. We are so sorry. My knowledge came from my mother. She said that to me as a child. I never researched it and I just believed it.

I took a face but I didn't. I was told a fact and I didn't research it. So I apologise. And I apologise for allowing a platform that that happened upon. A platform where I could talk. In public. In all seriousness, thanks, Ryan. That was, it's actually...

Oh, yeah, yeah. If we get anything wrong, let us know. We're more than happy. As ever, you can leave reviews on iTunes, and thank you very much for those of you who do. Yep. Don't forget, or don't fret, you can download us on Podbean and iTunes,

and we're very soon trying to get us on Spotify and Stitcher, if you're into that kind of thing. Yes, indeed. Yes. And all that needs to be said then is... Goodbye. Goodbye. Ah, hello. It's lovely to see you.

John Quincy's the name. I must say, the weather's rather clement today. I saw some cumulonimbia up in the air, blocking out part of the sun, but I think the UV tolerance will be quite high for us today. I see the bedelias are in bloom today. But here I am, talking about me and my interests. My fellow classmate, what is your name?

Uh, Timmy! Timmy, that's an interesting name. I guess your parents were too low-educated to call you Timothy. I draw pig! You draw pig? You're picking up wax crayons. Why are you using wax

crayons? Teach! Teach!'re picking up wax crayons. Why are you using wax crayons? Teach, teach. He's using wax crayons. Where are the fountain pens? Where are the quills? I need some parchment. Pig and me are friends. The pig and I.

The pig and I are friends. Oh, to be surrounded by the intellectually challenged. Well then, Timothy. Please show me where the library books are kept. Oh, books! I'm reading Spot. Spot. Let me see what you've got.

Spot the dog. Spot the dog? Spot's my friend. Spot isn't your friend. He's a fictional character. Look at the prose. There is no prose in this Where's the fluency, where's the cohesion Where's the semantic characters here

The lexical field is all off Oh my goodness Oh I've had enough Oh teach, teach Where do you keep the Milton in this kindergarten I hope to master it by first grade Taking a break obviously From the Led Zeppelin tour.

We're idiots. We've spent the last five minutes suggesting that John Adams was funny about waving sausages in the air, going ray, and then meeting with the bassist of Led Zeppelin. And we dare to call ourselves a history podcast. History.