Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Alec Benjamin

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Alec Benjamin. Releasing his third studio album, 12 Notes, earlier this month, Benjamin takes us through a vulnerable journey, as each song is meant to mirror a journal entry and represent a different section of his life. Naturally, that includes taking different turns across the whole album, including rapping (“I Sent My Therapist to Therapy”) and working with Grammy-winning duo Stargate for pop love songs (“Different Kind of Beautiful”). Benjamin also recently announced his headline tour, launching in September, where he will make stops in more than two dozen cities across North America. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠Spotify.⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'll be talking to multi-platinum, singer-songwriter and recording artist, Alec Benjamin. Let's go. I'm smoking out. If that's my kind, I don't want no bad times. I don't want to have bad.

Anyways, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. Very cool to see all the memorabilia and stuff. I remember one of the first CDs I ever got was one of your guys' CDs. Which one? It had the anthem on it. Yeah, young and the hopeless. Young and the Helpless, yeah.

That's fun. That's cool. I know all the songs in there by heart. Really? Yeah, but I never knew. I never, it was like a burned CD. Yeah. So I never knew the title.

I just knew, like, when I think about it, I think about, like, I remember my babysitter Angela had it, and it was like, this is like, had like Angela's CD on top of it. And I took it from her because I wasn't, I wasn't even allowed to, like, have CDs and stuff. Oh, really? I mean, like, I know my parents wanted to listen to everything that I was listening to. I didn't want them to know. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought they probably would have approved. That was the era for burning CDs. Yes, it was. And like mixed CDs. Yeah, I was in second grade. Oh, wow. Yeah. Good Lord.

Yeah. I remember, like, walking to the supermarket, listening to your guys' music and everything. You're young. And then I love the record that you guys did with M Shadows. Yeah. The river. Yeah, I remember that I just want to live.

Yeah, I just want to live. That was on our third record. So good. And then I remember, like, my. my my cousin sarah she had uh she had what's the going out to forget oh yeah dance floor anthem that was her my space profile song for so long yeah classic classic my space era yeah that was the era yeah but you guys have so many great songs i was listening to on the way here and i was like man there's so many throwbacks yeah yeah you you actually know a

a good span of the whole catalog i'm like actually a fan that's awesome yeah i know like i don't like i know sometimes people be like oh you know I like your music but actually like really know all the words amazing yeah that's awesome dude yeah thank you for saying that I've never I never got the opportunity to see you guys perform like okay so yeah we don't do that that much we don't perform that much anymore are there any plans to do anything like that in the future you know we're talking about it I think we're we're talking about it we're like we're trying to figure out we're gonna make some music okay cool it's been a while so we're gonna see what that are you gonna work with John Feldman again?

No, we're going to do it with Jordan Fish, who's an amazing producer, Zach Serveni, who's Yeah, I know, Zach. Zach is awesome. And Matt Coma. Okay, cool. Yeah, Matt's awesome too. Yeah, we're going to mix it up and, like, make it with our friends because we're friends with all those guys.

Okay. And then we'll see what comes from it. And then that'll dictate the plans for, because we won a tour. But, like, we all have families, so it's a little hard to, like, commit we tried to put together a tour um for this year and it it didn't work because of like our wives had work that came up right and like plans fell apart real fast with with family stuff but like now we're we're like looking at like 2025 and we're going like if we if we block out like two months and do like a world tour okay we could probably get to all the cities that we love do you want to

make your record first before you at least yeah and whether we do like a record we're kind of thinking about like how do we even want to put music out do we just want to drop a song at a time yeah and just do like 10 songs and then maybe that's a record or maybe it's just 10 songs that are all exists on their own i feel like it's a free for all now there's so many different ways to release music it's actually kind of it's actually kind of overwhelming because it's like there's too many options and it's like yeah yeah i like it when i don't really get to choose or I have like a couple of choices. And I feel like that's easier to be creative

when you're limited because then you can sort of like, I don't know, at least you know where to start. Now it's like you can kind of do anything. Well, I feel like you're one of those artists that you've been around a long time, long enough, to know what you're doing. I feel like I don't know what I'm doing at all.

Because I feel like you know the modern. When I look at you, I look at you like you feel like a modern artist to me. Like, but you didn't get started yesterday. Right. Right. So when was your first, like, would you say, like, first release? My first release. Like, 16?

Yeah. 2018? I guess, like, well, so I had a record deal when I first moved to California. And I put out one song in, like, 2014. But then I got dropped and then the song got taken down and stuff. So I guess, like, my first release, my first, like, real, like, major label release was, like, 2018. but I was like dropping songs before that

so I guess like I had but I wasn't even really allowed to be dropping the songs that I was at the time because I had a re-record policy and a lot of songs I had made while I was signed to Columbia and then I just did it anyways because I was like fuck it you know

then what are they going to sue me? Yeah yeah what are they going to do they're an artist company they're going to sue an artist I always tell artists like look unless it's egregious and you're like going you're trying to actually damage them

which you're not But other than that, I wouldn't worry too much about a major label suing you because the last thing a major label wants to do when they're saying, hey, this is a good place for you to sign. We take care of artists here is to be out there suing artists. Ultimately, they were the worst thing ever. Yeah, they were cool about it anyways. And I ultimately ended up getting the masters back when I sign my new deal.

But yeah, so I've kind of been, yeah, so I've been releasing music for a little bit. So 10 years, really? Yeah, about 10 years. It was a false start in 2014. It still counts. Maybe about 10 or 11 years. Right. Yes.

A decade of focused work, it's like you've gotten a master's degree in making and recording and releasing music, right? Right. So you spend that long in college learning how to do anything else. And the only college... I spent about six months in college. Right. So other people could go to college for 10 years to become the highest level and ready for, you

those medicine or science or any of those those kind of if we look at when we think of like careers right like the the typical idea of like what we're kind of taught in school what a career is if you could look at your work of 10 years of in the music business you've gotten like a degree at the highest level and you've had success at the highest level right maybe not to you maybe you're you're like probably like me I'm always going to be looking up and trying. Yeah, I'm looking at. Yeah, I still want it. Yeah, keep reaching and striving for greater levels of whatever that success feels like to you. But like, I would say you to me are like the modern established artist who has a real good sense of what it means to make and release

music in this modern world and how it's done. It's not linear. It's all over the place. You're looking after digital, which is like your TikTok and your Instagram and you're all that stuff as like a marketing and distribution, right? I get the sense that if you wanted to write a song and release it, you'd probably do that too. If on a whim, if you were like this song, I put a record out, I'm touring, doing whatever, then I just went in and I wrote this song and I recorded it. Let's drop it. All right, here's the plan. We're going to drop it in the next month. And you kind of know how to do that. That's what I think I'm going to do now, like, moving forward because, but I think that, no, I was, I got so scared, um, kind of what I saw when I was signed to my first deal was like,

okay, like, if your first release doesn't work, then like, you're not going to get the budgets. And that's what I, that's what I saw. And then I kind of ended up getting shelves. So when I got my second deal, um, I don't think that's what the label would have done, but I was like, this first song has got to work, you know, so I, like, I wrote a million songs and I like, I was like, okay, like, but, and it actually did work. And then after that, I got like, kind of scared to just sort of like release music whenever. And I wanted to replicate that on every release. And it's not possible.

It's not. And I think only now, like, five or six years later, I'm starting to be like, okay, whatever happens happens, I'm just going to start releasing music more quickly because I feel like also now, too, like having a, having a regular cadence is, is, and, being consistent is more important than just doing the perfect thing every time you release a song or a record. And now it's like you can put out music whenever. And also too, it's not the most important thing. I think that people hear it right away because it's going to exist forever online. So if people aren't ready for it now or it's not the right thing, maybe they will be in a year or maybe not. But I've

had some songs where it's kind of like, oh, I thought this was going to do better. And then like three, four years later it streams more. It pops up. Yeah, that's like a thing, a tool I can use when I put out a song and it doesn't do well. I'm going, people just don't get it yet, you know? Yeah, let it live. But that's a modern strategy. It's a consistent release schedule so that you build a relationship with an audience

that's coming back for that music. But you also have fans now. So like, where 10 years ago you could say, you're at the beginning of building your fan base. Right. You have fans now. So some songs may bring you. breakthrough to the larger audience of like the everyday people who hear your song in a store or wherever. So it's a less engaged audience, still important audience, but then you have your fans

who will appreciate that song that they feel like is just for them. Yeah. Sometimes I miss both completely, you know? Yeah. You gotta just do the next song. Sorry, that one was just, well, that was a joke. I was just kidding. I didn't mean that song. That was for me. Sometimes you just do one for you. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. You know, and you categorize them. I always try to, I'd say always, like, we release music all the time, but at this age, I've had a lot of time to meditate on it because we haven't released music a lot in the last 10 years to go.

If we get back into a cycle of releasing a lot of music, which we might, you know, I don't know. I would be like, this one's for me or this one's for the fans or this one I want to get after it and I want this one to be like a big rock song for everyone. Do you have anxiety before you go in and make a record? Like, what's your process? What do you guys do? I don't have any anxiety.

Okay. I need to be like you. I have anxiety all the time. I'm freaking out right now. I don't know if you do, though. I do. Trust me. What makes you you is that is you.

So I think like that's what I had to learn was like is I had to like embrace the idea that I'm just me and however I am is how I am. And if I can improve them something, things. Usually the things I need to improve are more personal. They're not music. I never really felt conflicted about it. After you guys like started to have your initial success, did it, did you get like a little bit like, oh. Pressure. Oh shit. Yeah. Like we have to, we got to do that again. Like that, that's how did you deal with that? We tried to continue to push what people would accept from us. And each time, I remember, we did that second record. And, and,

it was a little bit more like angry you know and then the third record we went a little darker and when we did that everyone all the adults were like oh you should just do more of that and we're like no we're going to do this and then it it it would always take a second for people to to grasp it but like it worked you know like that third record was our biggest record in europe ever uh so there were songs that were like popping off in Europe that weren't here which we were okay with and then the fourth record that song dance floor anthem and the river both did really well in america i love those songs but that was a different vibe that record was like shinier and right it's different i don't know it's hard to explain so that's like one of the first times you did like a feature on the song right yeah

yeah yeah which i love features now i would i all love to have features yeah i don't know i think we just tried to be ourselves we always tried to push people's ideas of like what they thought we were. So I don't know if we ever thought we were like a punk band. Right. I don't think we ever did. How many songs do you guys write for an album before? And like how do you pick the songs?

If there's 12 songs on an album, we probably write 18. Okay. All right. 16, you know? Yeah, that's good. Yeah. That's good. You know, I overthink it.

I wrote like maybe last year, I wrote 130 songs. Crazy. And I have no idea if any of them are any good. I just kind of I play them for my mom They're probably all pretty good dude You're a good songwriter There's a fair few of them that are pretty bad

And I play them for my mom after my session I know because she'll be like She doesn't ever tell me they're bad But she'll like she'll say if it's like If he says it's good I know that it's not very good But if she's like oh that's a great one Which happens like every 15 songs

And I'm like okay I'll keep that one Yeah Then of those I play them for people But every time I make an album I kind of look back and I'm like, I can't believe I spent that much time on something. And then I listen through to it. I'm like, I have no idea if this is even good.

And then you have to put it out. Have you ever thought about just as an experiment writing 10 songs and releasing them? You know what? I've not thought about it. But maybe I should do that. I don't think you could lose. I don't think you could lose. Do you think you're a songwriter first or an artist first?

I would say that I think the most important thing for me on like when I'm writing songs is like a perspective. It's just like having like an interesting like or or just having like a unique at least what I would consider to be unique view on something. And then I guess like I have I have something that I want to say first. So I guess like I don't know what that would mean if I'm an artist or a songwriter first. But I think that like when I write songs, the only reason I feel compelled to write something is because I feel like I have something that I need to express. So I think I'm just like, yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer for that question.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. Yeah. I don't know either. But I think I like to, I like lyrics first. They don't always come first, but it's the most important part for me because I think the thing that satisfies me the most is like saying what it is that I want to say to people. It's cathartic for me. And I don't know if, like, I've written some songs for other

people. And I enjoyed it, but. But that was never your mission. Yeah, it's not like so much fun for me to, you know, I have my own, I mean, maybe there will be a point at which I don't feel like I, I, I feel like, maybe I'll feel like my mission is to help someone else say what they want to say, but I kind of still feel like I've got like some things on my chest that I want to express. And I think that falls in. in the artist first category. All right. I'm an artist first, I feel. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Where are you from? I'm from Phoenix. Oh. Yeah. Where are you from? Maryland. Okay. I don't know too many people from Phoenix. I know. I don't think I know that many people from Maryland. There you go. Now you can add another one. What's, what's Phoenix like growing up? It's pretty, at least for me, you know, I was, I had pretty good

childhood. It's a pretty, it's definitely an easier way of life than it is living in like California. And I remember I had, well, I had cousins in from Manhattan growing up. And then when I would go to Manhattan, I'd be like, whoa, this is crazy. You know what I mean? And then when they'd come to Arizona, they'd be like, this sucks. Right. But then I think that I was always kind of, I always felt like this is not where I'm supposed to stay forever. Yeah, that's how I felt. Yeah. Then I moved here and I was like, this is it. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you still feel that way? Yeah. Where in L.A. do you live? Beverly Hills. Okay, nice. Yeah, it's nice. Fucking nice. I had to say, very nice.

I think what's cool about L.A., at least for me, like in Arizona, I didn't feel like, I felt like, at least for music. And now I think that it's changed a lot because the internet has kind of like decentralized and democratized everything. Yeah. So you can kind of like reach, you know, I mean, like I think, like, I think, like, like Lord is like one of the first examples of like she's from New Zealand. Yeah.

And she had like crazy success just from SoundCloud, you know. And that obviously catapulted her. But I think like, you know, I guess like when I was in middle school, YouTube was like kind of first starting. So it was kind of the beginning of that. But you still needed to get to a place like this in order to. I just remember driving through downtown with one of my friends who lives here and being like, wow, anything is possible. You know, and I kind of felt like at least for music, there was like an obvious ceiling. for me. And there weren't that many opportunities to perform. There was a pretty big metal scene,

actually, which is cool. Because you could get like a national thing started in Arizona if you were doing like hardcore music. But for singer-songwriter stuff, it was like you got up, there was a place called like the compound bar and grill and you had to like play for people while they were eating burgers. And it was nice. But, you know, and I learned to like always be grateful for the opportunity to play. But I was like, you know, it's just like wasn't, it wasn't. I remember my dad, there was a place near our house called The Overlook, and it was like a place where my mom got her got her nails done. And there was this guy there who was like really sweet. And, and he was all, he would sing to people like while they were getting their nails done. Oh, wow. It was cool.

But my dad was like, yes, like, this is going to be your mentor. And I was like, I know that's that. I was like, I got to get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. God bless him. They were trying to help. But like, I was like, this is, he's amazing. He's amazing. But he was like, it wasn't what I wanted to do. Well, yeah, you come to Los Angeles and you're surrounded by creatives. Yeah. Everywhere you go, someone's doing something creative. And it just continue.

You don't even realize it, but it confirms your, whatever it was that whenever you got started, that you said, I think I can do that. You had to get some confirmation every step of the way somewhere, whether it was yourself or your friends or your parents or the gig you played. But then at some point, that confirmation starts to the validity of it, you continue to look for a more valid confirmation, right? Whatever that means. Well, so am I.

The funny thing is, is you find out that you actually don't need it, that you're the confirmation. But we actually do need it in the way that we grow and the way that our brains are organized is like we are actually. looking for proof of life and organizing around the next always the next best thing, the next proof of life, the next proof of concept, the next thing that's real that we can hold on to, right? So I hope I find out soon that I don't need it and that I just need it for myself because

I feel like a lot of. Why do you feel like you need it? You have like four billion streams. Is that not it? Is that that not real? I feel like you would think, you would think that that would be like enough, you know? Maybe I don't know if it's, if it is though, because I still feel a little like you. Yeah.

And when I look back at it, I'm like, damn, I hope I can do that again, you know, and then it just becomes scary. I find a way to, I'll find a weird way to look at it no matter what. So a lot of us do that. I think it's the, well, the most basic thing you could say is like imposter syndrome. But like, it's deeper than that. because I think that the bigger part of you absolutely knows you're not an imposter, right? But there's always going to be a question of can I continue this or can I do that again? My one-trick pony, you're not.

Look, were you at risk of being a one-hit wonder eight years ago, maybe, on the other side of a decade and multiple, multiple, multiple songs that have connected with a mass audience? you could like sanely say okay that's not a reality i hope i get to that so sanity for me says that right right if i was going to bet on someone if you put you in a lineup of a bunch of other artists and you showed me a guy who just came out six months ago has a big hit there's you there's maybe an old guy like me and i go okay we have to bet on one to have to have a song that does X. I would say you're probably one of the horses I would probably bet on.

I appreciate it. You know what I mean? Like if you look at your like your trajectory of your career, you could say like, oh, like success begets success. That's another one. I always tell like my friends who are artists who are, we all have the same thing. We all go through it. We're like, can I do this again or can I, you know, we all have the same nerves in some

version. Well, it's cool for me to hear especially. But you got to hear it. Well, it's cool. Well, also to hear from you is pretty cool as well because like I'm, you know, having been a fan of yours, like to hear that, to get that confirmation is pretty rad. So I appreciate it. You got 21 million monthly listeners on Spotify right now, last time I checked, which was this morning. Okay, yeah. I think I have six. My band has six,

right? Well, I mean, it's not like, it's also like the records came out of different times, too. It's not the same thing. Just as a function of a measurement, one measurement, right? But if you were to look at like what you've achieved in 10 years, And it feels to me like you're in stride. You know who you are. Your music, when I listen to the catalog, it's a nice arc. It doesn't sound like you were trying to do this. And then you were trying to do that.

Like there's a nice, like cohesive arc to your career. Thank you. Which is nice. I look at you and I go, oh, like this is like a career artist, like building a catalog. And that's just hard to do. Thank you. I'm trying my best. I'm trying really hard.

Yeah, I can tell. I'm trying really hard. and that feels good because I feel like I'm kind of like for the first time, I don't know. I feel, I think about it a lot and that's what I want to do. So that's cool to hear that from you. How old are you? I'm 29. Oh, that's the, you're like, bring your prime.

Yeah, you think so? Yeah. What was 29 like for you? It was great in a different way. I was on the other side of like my fifth record. Okay. And I had just had my first kid. And I was like looking into the sky asking myself like what is life really all about?

What if like this, what I thought would make me and what I thought made me special? What if that's not actually what makes me special? What if that's just a byproduct of me? and what if like I've got to find what actually makes me special and like why I should like myself not because of the music not because of the fame or the success or the money or whatever whatever you could say is the good part of like all the all the byproducts of success of that so I started my journey on like family therapy self it's like an exploration of self like who am I actually even you know um because I

my whole self was wrapped up in that artist. And that was the journey I started at 29. Now I'm 45. So where do you find yourself at on that journey right now? Because right now everything that I am is wrapped up in that. It's all just my career. Which is the life of an artist. It's a real sacrifice.

So I'm not saying that's bad. I think I had the career I had because of that. So I don't think that that's bad. But I had to know if there was more. So I went on that like kind of. And probably like that 29 was when I started to think about it. But like 30, early 30s was when I really dug in. And my kids were like a few years old.

And I started really digging in. I started me and my brother, we started this business. Then I turned into multiple businesses. And we built out a life of adventure in a different way. So on the other side, I'm 45. I'd say I'm in a place. I don't have all the answers that I thought I'd get. but I think I'm pretty grounded in like who I am, I think, and who I'm not.

You know, like, I think it's interesting coming back to music because we've been circling, like, okay, if we're going to do this, let's do it for real. And like, we know what that means, though. So we know that there's a certain amount of sacrifice if we're going to dive back in. Right. We know what we're going to have to give up a little bit of, which we've been holding on to for a decade, family, kids, like, not say we've to let all that go. But there is sacrifices you got to make to have success in music.

Do you know what kind of record you want to make? You know what you want it to sound like? I want to make a rock, like a big rock record. Okay. Yeah. Sick. It's a big rock fan. Let's go.

Yeah. That would be rad. Yeah. That would be very rad. Would you do like a whole world tour? Yeah. Dude, fun. Yeah.

What's your favorite place to play? It's a good question. What's yours? I love going to Korea. I think Korea is awesome. I love Seoul. I've never been. It's crazy. Korea is so cool. And Japan is really cool, too.

We love Japan. Yeah, Japan is amazing. And I love being home, too. I think Seattle is a pretty special place. Every show has its own character, but there are certain, like, places that I just really, I love Korea. Yeah, I'm going to China soon. So that'll be fun. China's cool. Yeah. I've been there a lot.

Okay. To perform? Actually, working. Okay. An artist we worked with here was really big in China. Oh, amazing. How was that? How was the experience? Awesome.

Cool. Different. I mean, it's China. So I think it's very American to think that everywhere should be like America. I think it shouldn't. So when I go, I'm a tourist. I'm like, this is cool. It's so different.

I thought China was dope. I mean, Shanghai was my favorite because there was like, it's cool. There's restaurants and shopping and all kinds. You know, it's, it's similar to like a Tokyo. I imagine Seoul would be the same way. There's lots to discover. Just the, just shopping and eating alone you could do for a month and not get through all the stuff there.

So it's pretty cool. And there's like cool, cool kids there. Like there's a youthful energy there. I always love Tokyo. Tokyo's always been like my, one of my favorite city, probably my favorite city in the world. Yeah, it's rad. Our shows were always just sick there. It's crazy.

It's crazy. you when you fly into Tokyo at the airport, they have like the, they have like the Nintendo characters on the wall. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm home. Tokyo's amazing. Osaka's amazing.

I've never been. Oh man, Osaka is incredible. I love Osaka. Osaka's so, so great. It's a real rock and roll city. When was the last time you guys toured? Last time we actually did a tour,

2018. Okay. So it hasn't been, it hasn't been that long. It's not been forever. But it was still, it was pre-pandemic. Yeah. Feels like it was 80 years ago. Yeah.

I love the UK. Shows are amazing. Germany shows are amazing. France. All Europe shows are always amazing. Australia, always great. South America is always amazing. I've never been.

South America's awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah. I've heard that the fans there are wild. I mean, it's just they love music. So you can feel like the love of the music. Mexico, I love Mexico. everywhere, Colombia.

I like touring the whole world. I mean, I like America too. Yeah, me too. It's nice. Just less exotic, you know? Yeah. When you're somewhere else, it's interesting. It's like you're interested.

You're just like. And I feel like the food options, like when you're on a bus in America, like they're not, they're not great. Like, I'd rather eat at a gas station in Europe than I would in the United States. I was like lived on slim gyms for like three weeks. years. Or a convenience store in Japan has way better food options. Yeah, crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. In America, it's like, you know, you're done with the show and you're maybe, I don't know, it depends on where you are, but it's like, you know, two, three in the morning. And it's pretty, pretty slim pick. You know where the shows are wild, like big Malaysia, Indonesia, Indonesia, Thailand,

the shows are big. It's crazy how much they, they love rock music there. And live music. Right. Live music is great there. I feel like now is a really, I feel like guitar. music is kind of making its way back into the into the world so now that would be like a really good time yeah i think not to say that there's ever a bad time for it i think that guitar music is on is is going to enjoy like a nice like decade of of real relevance um for new artists to come out that want to play guitar i think it's shifted i think something about the solely track based music is I really actually think it's a function of like exhaustion. Yeah.

You know, because I think there's something about the, if you're not mixing in some live instruments, there's like a frequency or something. I don't know what it is. I'd love to dive into that and see if there's something to it. But I do think there's something about like music with more live infused in it. Not to say you can't just record in the box, but playing the guitar live versus maybe.

just programming it. Right. I think there's a difference in the sound that I think there's something to it. I agree. Have you played around with any of the new AI tools to make music? Yes. They're pretty wild. What do you think is going to happen?

I had like an existential crisis yesterday because I was typing in like, I was like, write a song about whatever. And it was pretty good. It was pretty good. Which one did you use? I don't remember what it was called. My friend texted it to me. And he actually showed me the demo.

on FaceTime. And he was like, yo, this is going to be really exciting, but also really scare you. And I'm not, I'm not sure what the, what,

what the, what the, how people are going to implement it, but, no one is. Um, but they're going to do it. Right.

That's why I never really fight these things. I wonder how many songs I've listened to that I enjoy that are, are AI already. I think, I mean, it's, I played around with one and, and I,

like, and the more effort you put into the prompts. And you can also like, write lyrics in and you can fuck around in lots of ways to like try to shape a song it's pretty it's pretty crazy what i want to play around with is okay let's say you or me we're singers with distinct voices right if we gave the license to that uh product that platform right that company uh to use our voice and we gave them enough files that they had enough to work to build the AI off of our voice and then let people create what would come back. The question will always be

down to the rights, right? And that's the big question that everyone wants to solve. I actually think the AI companies actually want to solve it too. They want to like, they want to have the future work, but they also don't. I don't believe that they want to disjure. The world doesn't work without creative, unique creative forces, right? So it's never going to just be. AI. It's not, no one wants to live in that. It's just not. Someone has to prompt it too. So someone has to prompt it based on something. Right. That's been created. So that's the big question that everyone has. We have to be also realistic of how the world works and how the evolution of technology and life works. And so we can't, it's not, we're not going to stop it. The sooner we get on board with it

and try to help figure that out, I think the better it is for everyone. Yeah. So it's still early. I don't know what it means. Do you do therapy? Yeah, I never miss it every week, two hours a week. Nice. Yeah. When did you start doing that? Thirty-four, I met the guy that I see now, I've been seeing it for over 10 years, is incredible. And it's just the right, the right guy for me. It's really had a huge impact on my life. I love him. I just really think he's a good person and really get at what he does. So then now I'd say I'm 10 years and dedicated every week. Very rarely do I miss a week.

Really helpful. You know, sometimes you're talking about old shit. And sometimes you're literally just talking about, especially when you get into marriage, parenthood, all that stuff, you're literally just talking about one thing that's going on that week or that month or whatever. It always changes. But I do two hours every week. I think that it's been one of the things that's like been helping me the most for this last six months, seven months.

Yeah, I would bet. Yeah. I would bet. I like it. I look forward to it. Do you work out? I do. You can't tell, but I do.

No, I can. You look fit. I'm not. I'm in pretty bad shape. But I like, I do go to the gym, surprisingly. I go to, I start to see a trainer. And because otherwise I won't stay accountable to myself. So I like, force myself.

I force myself. to go. Thank God. I train with like a few different guys in the morning like just like there's a group of us and we meet up and it's fun. It's a good time. I like it. That's a good way to spend time. Yeah. They always say like the first thing we can do for our heads is move our bodies and like get into something physical. Yeah. And I'm also like sometimes when I'm on tour, like or at least the last like few tours I've done especially out of COVID I was like in really bad shape. And then I just like find myself like not being able to sing all the lyrics. You know that's when you like put it to the crowd. You're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I don't want to do that on this next tour. Yeah. So I want to be able to sing all the words if I can. When's the tour? I'll be going to Europe in two months to do festivals, and then I'm going to do Asia in August, and then I'm doing a North American tour in the fall, and then I'll probably be going to Europe, top of 25.

Full. Yeah, I'll be full. I'm excited. Great. Yeah. You know what I just did? Speaking of therapy, I just got a brain scan. Okay.

And I have the next one is tomorrow. The second one, they have to scan two different scans. And then there's, it's this, it's this guy. It's called the Amman Clinic. Yeah, Dr. Amon? Yeah. I watch his videos on YouTube all the time. Okay, so he's the guy, right?

It's his clinic. And they map your brain out, and then they tell you how your brain works. Yeah. Have you done that? No, but I want to. You should do it. How do I get an appointment? Tell him myself, what's up?

I'll put you on email. That would be amazing. I would try to get, I actually DM'd him like maybe two weeks ago. He would do a YouTube video with you. That would be, well, I wanted to. Okay, he'll do it. That would be cool. Because, maybe us three should do it.

That would be fun. Maybe. So he asked me if I would do a YouTube video and I was like, let's do the scan first and then like, I don't want to like be revealed. I don't want any, like, what if there's something wrong in my brain? I don't know. So that's in my head. I know he would, like, it's pre-taped.

It's a YouTube video. He wouldn't do that to you. Right. But I'm just so. He's popping right now. He's majorly popping. He's crushing it. And also I've been like, I've been following him for a while.

And I think the stuff that he does is really interesting. And he talks about ADD a lot, which is something that I need help with. So I'm like trying all the herbal stuff he talks about. If he says it, I'm like, Whole Foods like five minutes later. So he's in the clinic is in Encino. Okay. Amazing. All right.

I guess I'll move to Encino then. I'm going to move right next to his clinic. He would do it with you in two seconds, dude. You're popping. You guys are popping together. All right. Well, us three. That would be cool.

If you could put me in touch, that would be rad. Because I literally DM'd him like three or four days ago. I'll put you on email with them. Amazing. Yeah. Everyone out there listening. I think we get some idea gets planted in us that we're supposed to know something's wrong with us if we're not perfect.

Or we don't figure something out the way someone else did. And we kind of hold ourselves to these like weird, unrealistic standards, whatever they are, right? Whether it's our fitness. Everybody has a different struggle. Some people, it's mental health. They can't feel better. They just feel depressed. Some people, it's their fitness.

Some people just can't seem to get. Some people, it's their work. They can't keep a job or they can't stick with something. There's something behind all of it. And it all starts with our brains. And if we can figure out how our brain works, we can lean in to things. we can avoid certain things, we can improve some things. And the idea for people out there listening that can't maybe get a brain scan,

that they should take a little of the pressure off of like the idea that they should just be able to figure it out without some searching. The idea that like any of us are supposed to have this figured out is wrong. Like that's why we go to therapy. That's why we, if we can go get a brain scan or go, whatever the mechanism is, we use to figure out how we function. I think that's like the most important thing people can be doing is like taking steps towards like figuring out their own lives.

Sounds like you're doing that with therapy and stuff. The fact that you know about the brain scan is dope though. Oh, thanks. You're like not a lot of people do. Not a lot of people are interested in that. Yeah, I will. I'm like you. I'm afraid to find out that there's something wrong.

So I'm like, maybe I don't want to know. Yeah, you know, I don't know I get super anxious around Any health And I don't know why Because it'd be better to know Yeah, sooner Sometimes it's better to not know though

I guess it's easier to live in ignorance Yeah Yeah You're like do doopty do I feel like maybe you're the kind of person If you know Then you have to do something about it So sometimes it's better to not know

Because then you don't feel like You have to do anything Yeah, there's accountability Yeah You know How many platinum songs do you have I'm just kidding, I don't know

I have a couple I'm not like a crazy amount I have a few Yeah you have a few I have I think maybe let me down slowly Is about to be like four times Yeah Almost four times

It might yeah might be four times And then my song If we have each other might be about To go two times And my song Waterfound might be Nine billion global streams I said four Earlier you didn't correct me

Yeah ever fucking crazy reach. The only reason I'm bringing this up because I'm sitting with you and I'm like this is not by no means is this the early accomplishment of like a, like this is a this is like a huge

accomplishment if you add up all these things, multi-platinum records, the streams, tours, you've accomplished a lot. Oh, thanks. But you have. Yeah, it doesn't feel like it. Right. That's what I'm saying. is I feel like I'm sitting across from someone who doesn't actually realize what they've accomplished so far in their life.

Yeah, maybe that's true. That's cool. I think that's good. I think some parts of that can be good. Probably some of it can be bad. I think something in us needs to at least carry it around with us enough. You don't get any of that. Maybe you get one of those platinum records and one of those billion, a billion streams or something.

If it's a fluke accident, you happen to be in the wrong. room and blah blah blah like those those scenarios can happen we know we've all known that around like you've seen those those happen i'm not even dissing them as a great stroke of luck if you you can fluke have a hit but to have a body of work an audience and have the and to have so i'm amena and like my music my cabello can't with me and he has to be able to to continue my rhythm. For so, potion 9 of Sebastian Professional has all what my cabo needs.

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an accomplishment. Well, thank you. High level accomplishment. Thank you. It feels good when you say it like that. Yeah. But that's not how I think about it.

I'm feeling good for you. Thanks, man. Thank you. It's pretty cool to be here with you as well. Like this is an accomplishment for me too. Because just like to be with people that I look up to and music that's inspired me to get to connect with, you know, the artist that made it is pretty, pretty cool. When in moments like this, I go, oh, yeah, you know, okay, like I. I'm doing stuff.

I'm doing something right, you know, because I get to hang out with the people that made records that inspired me. Well, that's nice to you to say. You're doing more than some stuff right. You're doing more stuff right than wrong. I think that's actually the simple equation for success. Do more right than wrong. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

This is why I love doing this show because I get to actually meet people that I just know their music. And I get to see like, oh, what is it about that? Like, why are they successful? And I think with you, it's probably something like obsession over songs, probably writing 100 songs for a record is obsession. Yeah, I'm obsessed. Yeah. Yeah. Probably so obsessed that you can't do much else.

That's why I live at home. Yeah. I can't handle anything else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much all I do all the time is just work. Yeah. Yeah.

but it feels like that's what I'm supposed to be doing. But it shows. Well, shows in the resume. Thanks. Do you ever wonder, like, not to say you should change anything because you shouldn't, but certainly there are people out there that are like,

how did you do it? And you're like, you don't really want to know because it's such a sacrifice. It doesn't feel so much like a sacrifice because it feels like I'm not sure what else I'd be doing. It's like reading. but but uh it's just it's not that it's not that sexy you know what i mean it's just kind of like well you just got to keep doing it over and over and over and over and over again and ultimately you

know if you try enough time something is going to stick yeah that's kind of my philosophy yeah because the work actually the work part is the biggest part and that's not sexy at all for for anything to be honest like the real work the hours of like even just the hours of of of of a obsessing in your mind over it is still, for me, that still counts as part of the work. Yeah, like learning how to play an instrument too, it's just like doing the same thing, the wrong way over and over and over again until you get it right. It's pretty boring, but feels right, you know. But how many people do you come into contact that, that they say they want what you have,

but you kind of see that they're not actually obsessing over it. Like, I see this sometimes. I see young people come into music and they say they want all the things. They want to have the success, the career. the records, the, and then you kind of see what they're doing and they're not obsessing over it. I think I have the most trouble with, sometimes I say I want certain things and then I catch myself not doing what I need to do to be achieving those things. And I, I struggle mostly like with myself and like I feel like the person I see is like sometimes I say I want it and then I go and

I find myself like not focusing or going out or doing something else that I shouldn't be doing. and then I have to ask myself, like, do you really want this? Like, are you really serious about it? And that's like why at the beginning of this year, I'm like, okay, I'm going to shut out all my distractions. Like, if I really want this, then, like, this year I have to be really disciplined. And there's going to be a lot of things that I'm going to miss out on. But if this is what I say I want and I really mean it, then this is what I have to do. And I know in my heart what I have to do.

So I feel like I have, like, the most trouble with myself. Like, sometimes like that person that you're talking about is me. Or it's like, I say that this is what I really want. But then there are times where I don't necessarily demonstrate. that and I can't just say it. I have to live it. So I feel like and also like I don't necessarily like I don't get out that much. So you know, maybe I would come come across people who who might be that way. But normally I'm just dealing with myself. And yeah, I do have that problem, but just mostly with me. So hopefully this year, this year I've had it less though. I really feel like I'm, I'm sort of like

living the way that I'm living in line with like the things that I say I want. But I don't always. It's hard to be 100% consistent all the time. Yeah, it's impossible to be 100% consistent. I think if we get to 80%, we're like crushing it. That's what I've learned is like, I used to think, oh, I have to be 100%. Now I'm like, I actually don't have to be 100%. I got to be like 80%. I got to get the diet right 80% of the time, 90% of the time.

And then if I can turn that wheel closer to 100%, the hardest thing for me is getting used to getting comfortable with incremental results, the incremental gains in the process. It's the only way we do anything that's especially new. But I will say, because of your career you've achieved, you know what it means to achieve. Right. So if you want anything, you know you can have it because you picked likely one of the hardest things in the world to accomplish music.

Success in music is one of the hardest. It's one of the hardest things that anyone, because there's so many nuance factors and the success of what makes an artist interesting, what makes them, why could a guy have a hit record? It's not just the record. It's a bunch of weird things we ball into one. And what I find with most of us, we were similar, is we want to do everything we do at the highest level. Otherwise, it's not that interesting. I agree. Well, I agree with that. Like, sometimes when I go, you know, never go into the studio, being like, I want to write like the second best song I've ever made. No. It's not interesting. Every day I'm hoping to do like the best one.

And obviously it's not going to happen every day. But yeah, I agree. But it's not necessarily the most fun way to live. But it's the curse of drive. Do you have pets? I do have two dogs. Oh, amazing. What kind of dogs do you have?

German Shepherds. Oh, nice. Yeah. I have a Maltese. Yeah, but she thinks she's a German Shepherd. Yeah, they always do. Yeah, I love German Shepherd. Do you sleep with your dog?

No, I don't. She sleeps with my parents. Oh, okay. Yeah. She's like my dad's dog. But she likes me, but not. as much as she likes my dad. So it's okay. I get it. I know where I am in the pecking order. She's like, she's his dog. At some point I'll have a dog, but I'm not ready to have one on tour. I can't.

Big responsibility. Yeah, I can't do it. I got to learn how to take care of myself first. I think you're doing pretty good. You have a record coming out? I do. Yeah. It's on May 10th. Yeah. I remember that. Okay, nice. Thank you. Yeah. It's coming out on May 10th. I'm finishing it. It's still not really done. I have to turn it in this week and it's being like mixed and stuff. There's like a few things that still need to be finished, but I feel like I'm at peace with it. So I'm ready to move on, you know. Make another one? Yeah, I'm ready to just like start putting out other music.

I have, I put, there's 12 songs on it, but I have other songs that I wrote during the process. And so I'm going to put some of those out after and kind of just keep running with it, you know, and just keep going and see what works. I'm excited. I'm excited to just get, move past it because I've been thinking about it so much for so long. I'm just ready to be, ready to be done with it. Yeah. Whatever happens, happens.

And get out on the next. Play the songs. Yep. Who are you touring with? There's a guy named Matt Hansen. He's opening for me. He's awesome. He is, I actually just started listening to his music, but he's a great singer-songwriter.

And then when I tour in Europe, I don't know who I'm going to tour with. But I'm doing a headline run in Asia and then Europe and the United States. And then I don't know who's on the festival bills that I'm playing for or that I'm going to be playing with this summer. but I'm sure they'll be cool artists that I'm excited to see. When I find out who they are, I'll be excited to see them. I like going to festivals, especially in other countries. Yeah. Festivals are fun.

Yeah, and the catering is always good in other countries. You always end up meeting somebody that's playing a few of the same festivals. Yeah. Becoming friends. Yeah. It's always fun. That's cool. Maybe that's where I'll meet my wife.

Maybe. Yeah. Putting it out there. Yeah, it might happen. Maybe it's Doja Cat. She's playing one of the festivals. Maybe. Doja Cat?

Maybe she's my wife. Maybe. I like Doja Cat. I think she's cool. If you're listening. Deja, we love you. Is she your favorite? Yeah.

Yeah, I think she's great. She is great. I think she's cool. Yeah, she's super cool. I love her music. She does whatever she wants. Yeah, I'm a fan. I just watched the Coachella stream.

Pretty cool. Yeah, she's cool. It's very, very cool moment for me. Very cool, full circle, you know, just getting to be here and sit with you. and talk to you about music is pretty rad for me. So thanks for having me. Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate that.

I feel the same way. I really love your career. Oh, thanks. I can tell how hard you've worked and how much you obsess over songs. You can hear it in the songs. You know, I think that the work that we put in to accomplish what you have is, it's really an accomplishment and it's taken your whole life, really, and all your energy and all your effort.

I just think it's a real achievement. And I feel like you know that, but I hope you take that with you because I feel like you're on a jump off to the next 10 years of your career, but the last 10 have obviously been amazing. Oh, thank you. Great work. Thanks. Awesome. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it. It's great to meet you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Artist Friendly. If you really liked it, you can follow, like, subscribe to the show, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, Amazon. We appreciate your support, and we'll see you next time.