Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Ben Kweller

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by Ben Kweller. From his early days with neo-grunge band Radish to an impressive solo career, Kweller has constantly been shaped by music — and laid his heart bare in his songwriting. That’s never been truer on his latest album, Cover the Mirrors, a striking reckoning with grief after Kweller lost his 16-year-old son Dorian Zev Kweller in a car accident. In a conversation with Madden, Kweller opens up about his life in Texas, touring with Ed Sheeran, the tragic death of his teenage son, and how it influenced his new record, out this Friday (May 30). ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking with singer, songwriter, record producer, and artist Ben Queller. Let's go. That's my kind. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. Bro. That's been a minute. I know, man. I feel like last time we saw each other was like in a parking lot. Both of our tour buses were parked next each other. I don't know if it was like... Where was it? I don't even know. It's just one of the... out there, isn't it? I know. I know. Such a blur. And I think the only places we've ever seen each other

has been on the road somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Shows and stuff. Exactly. That's cool, man. Do you remember the first time we met? Was it at your show? It was with Evan Dando and Benley. No, pre-Benz. Dude, this was, and it was like in Maryland. Didn't we play? Yes, you came backstage. You were just starting. Yeah. So was I. What song did we sing? I don't even remember. Surrender? Maybe. Maybe. I have no idea. Yeah.

But it was like, hey, there's these two brothers. They're coming backstage. And, you know, because you met us, Ben Lee. Yeah, we were a huge fan. You already fans of Ben Lee, right? We were fans of all you guys. Dang. Back from, like, the first time I was ever in, I ever encountered you musically was

Rattish. And then after that, obviously all your incredible music. Like, Sundress has been on, like, every playlist that I've ever made for my wife. Like, all of our, like, we have. You know our little playlist we make for each other. That's like a, that one always makes the cut. Such a good, you know, a lot of those. Thank you.

I like the love songs, you know. That's right. Can't help it. Ben Queller. Yeah, dude. The classic. You know, the classic Ben Queller. I guess so.

I know. New album, dropping on Friday. The album comes out on Friday. Yeah. Oh, wow. How are you feel about the album? I love it. I have a lot of emotions about it.

Yeah. So it's been a crazy two years. Tell me about it. Well, Liz and I lost our 16-year-old son, Dorian. I'm really sorry about that. Thank you. In a car crash, out of nowhere, just a freak accident, sent me into a tailspin, obviously.

And now I have this album of songs that, you know, all of them are about it, but, you know, there's lyrics where it's a little indirect, but as I kind of look back on this album, I can see that they're all directly affected, you know, by this situation. And so I'm just leaning. Music's always been there for me. It's been the one constant in my life. And so this is, this album's important medicine for me right now, you know. from losing your son, which I can't even imagine. I didn't even have words for it, you know,

and I thought about it today. I was like, I'm obviously going to talk to Ben about, or at least tell you I'm sorry. Right. But as a parent, I mean, I can't even, I don't know if there's anyone listening that has kids. I don't know if there's words to even try to imagine what you could say to someone who's suffered a loss like that.

I know. I know. It's every parent's worst nightmare, you know, happened to come true for us. You know, I mean, the good thing is, like, it's so rare. It's like, it's not going to happen to most people, you know, like, but it happened to us, and I'll never forget that night. Like, it's just crazy, just watching TV. It was, man, like, even, like, the two weeks leading up to it, Dorian, who was also an artist,

and he was, man, he was so talented. Yeah. Started making music under the name Zev, ZEV, which is his middle name. It means Wolf. Put out six songs while he was here and has a whole laptop. Like we're going to put together an album at some point. There's like hundreds of ideas and songs on his laptop. But like the two weeks leading up to his death, he was so antsy and just like he would come

home from school and be like, Mom, Dad, like, I just feel like. I just feel like I can't fit it all in. Like, Dad, we need to be putting out a song every Friday. You know, and I was like, of course, I'm telling me, well, like, you know, Spotify wants, like, you know, four weeks. You know, like, all the stupid stuff that we, you know, when you're in the music industry. But he was just like, no, like, I just want to, like, I feel like I want to go be with my friends, but then I feel guilty because I want to hang with you and mom. And, like, he was, I really feel like his soul was, like, preparing. And, you know, I don't know.

It's a... I don't think you're wrong. I think there's something very, like, cosmic about us that we don't give credit to or we don't pay attention to or give credit to or even understand. But, like, there is, like, a wisdom in all of us that's deep, that's spiritual, that it, like, kind of makes sense to me when you say that. Yeah. I it cracked me so wide open like I've always been pretty spiritual and seen signs and I mean I feel like when you're an artist you are kind of attuned to other realms just inherently I feel like as a creative person but after this happens like fully like my faith in like believing there's a god like I'm like

okay now I get it like you know um so much man I'm so sorry Sorry. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's just, it's, it's the path that I'm on. Like, I'm at this place now, two years later where it's just all about gratitude and, you know, just acceptance, you know, and I had 16 years with him. He was the coolest. And I still have him as just like our relationship's a totally different thing. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. How long did it take for you to, I don't know, make sense of it, or come to terms with it. Yeah. Like, how long did that take?

Well, probably like a month in, I will say community, first of all, like that's the first thing that helped get Liz and I through this and Judah, Dorian's younger brother, our local community and their support. Someone reached out to us a few days after Dorian died and said, hey, I want to introduce you to another couple who lost their teenage boy and they came over to our house and that was really comforting to like meet and talk to someone else who went through this horrific thing you know and it's it's like this really fucked up club that none of us wanted to be in yeah you know but we're in it and so it's like well figure out how to live in that you know that was helpful yeah i mean you're just in complete chaos i mean that's the whole thing is like you just realize how little control we have over stuff. Yeah.

And how, how's Judah doing? Judah's good. Like Judah is super strong. Like, he's going to make shit happen and like he's always been that kid. My mother has this belief. She thinks that we choose our parents.

You know, like your soul before it comes down to earth is like, hey, we got like these parents in Ohio, they do this and that, you know. Yeah, like flip it through. And, you know, maybe like Like Dorian Soul was like, you know, they were like, well, there's this Ben and Liz, you know, they're in Texas. And, you know, you always loved music and wanted to be an artist and the dad's an artist. And, you know, you're going to be able to do whatever you want and just be creative and have this perfect life. It's not going to last long, though.

Like, you know, it'll only, it'll be short lived, but you'll have an amazing life. You'll have this little brother, Judah, who is, you know, you're going to leave early. but he's strong enough to handle that. Like this is like this sort of movie we play out, me and my mom, you know, and I kind of like it. Yeah. It's kind of an interesting concept. But I don't think that you're wrong.

I think that there's like this deep part of us that's like connected to God. Yeah. That's like Godlike. They say we're created in God's image. Totally. So like we have a God connection if we exercise it. Yes. And the more we exercise.

it, the more in touch we get with these intuitions? That's it. That's it. You can choose to see what you want to see, you know? Yeah. And like I remember like being a kid, you know, people would always say like, well, that's God's plan, you know? Like, I always hated that phrase. I'm like, that's a lame plan. Like this is not, you know. Yeah. But then after this experience, I'm like, now I understand that phrase. Like, okay, like if it all is God's plan, you have to find the positive of it, and there are always positives. You know, there's always something to be grateful for, even in the face.

That is such a good perspective to take away. There are absolutely people who suffer grief for so long, and they can't get past it, which I don't judge. I'm not judging, like, there are parents who have lost their kids who will never make peace with it. Never. For a lifetime. Totally. And we all love our kids deeply.

Of course. I don't know how any of us would handle it. We don't know, right? But to have that perspective really, like, touches me because I think about all the parts of life that we kind of choose our worldview on it. You know, we choose our bias on it. Totally. And everybody listening could take this into something that they're choosing to see as a negative thing. thing. Totally. And you're talking about the worst possible thing that could happen to someone, right?

Yeah. And you're actually sitting here across from me telling me this like really positive perspective on it, which it's wild that I'm even having that philosophy. How long did they take you to get? How long did it take you to get to that? I don't, I mean, was it music? Did music come and start opening you up? Yes. I mean, I mean, I, it was all that. So like I will say like my baseline vibe is optimistic. Yeah. You know me. I believe that. I'm like, you know, I've always seen the cup completely teetering over and dripping onto the table. You know. Yeah, yeah. And so like, um, I so and that goes back to the whole, like my mom's whole thing. Like, I was maybe equipped for this. You know, like there's this other phrase like, you know, that they say, you know, God only gives us things we can handle.

Right. I believe that too. And I'm like, yo, okay, well, this is pretty messed up that like, this is what was given to me. But maybe it was in my makeup because it was all written and it was supposed to go down this way. And so being that type of personality going into it probably has helped. The music piece completely, I mean, that's been my therapy and that's and just all. Also, you know, because we would do music together, Dorian and I, like I'd hear him in his bedroom. He'd be making beats on FL studio.

Yeah, yeah. My son does FL. Oh, it's so cool. It's so cool. Yeah. They're good, too, these kids. I know. They're so good.

They're so good. And I'd go in there and we'd talk about song structure and ideas and stuff. And, you know, then when he started playing guitar and writing lyrics and finding his voice, I mean, that was really kind of the last piece for him as an artist was like when he found his voice um when he was like 14 or 15 and it's similar to mine there's definitely like a queller thing you know when people hear it like the jeans thing you all put the quail in the queller it's got the quell yeah but his voice is like a little lower than mine like it's a little it's like sultry right kind of raspy I don't know it's really cool voice and there was actually this one song I heard him singing this chorus and

went into his bedroom like dude what's that like that's sick it's like yeah it's song i'm working on and we kind of sat down and jammed on a little bit and he never finished it because he died like a month later and the song's called trapped and so i finished it oh like and it's on the album that comes out on friday so it's it's one of my favorites on the album so it's like oh my god man like singing it like I can hear him, you know, and it's just, and you know, like, when you co-write with people, like, what's so exciting about that is, like, the things they come up with that you never would have, you know, and it's like this beautiful thing. And so, like, just little turns of phrase that I never would have done that he did. And it's just like, so him, you know. It's how you know

someone's an artist. When you co-write with, when you co-write with a career songwriter, that's one thing. I, by the way, love those guys. We know a bunch of those guys. Sure. They just write songs. Totally. They're just builders of songs. Builders. And then you meet an artist.

Yeah. And you do a co-write with an artist. It's a different thing. Totally. They do weird little things and they do like their funky little ways. And like it's the same with me. If you work with me, there's going to be some little thing. Totally.

Just a nuanced little thing. That's the exciting part of working with an artist. Yeah. Because they're like a little bit of like a star. Totally. It's like a star thing. Like when it's always, we strive to find. something unique, I think, you know, where like a lot of times if your job is just to write hits,

you're going to have to follow certain trends and certain things, but as an artist, we're like, you know, I want it to be unique, you know. It's like, and that's always the trick, right, with music. It's like there's only 12 notes. Yeah. It's like, you kind of feel like everything's been said, but how do you say the thing differently this time, you know? That's kind of what keeps me coming back. And, like, also, I feel like over the years, like, I've been simplifying her trying to at least, you know, just like those ideas. I think it's really beautiful, it's serendipitous that you get to go out and play the song you and your son wrote to the world for the rest of your life.

Exactly. And, you know, not a lot of parents get to honor their kids that way. But I think it's really special. I think there's a lot of healing when we sing when we play music. You know, when a song grows and you play it 100, 200, 300 times and it starts to take on this other shapes. And then people come up to you and tell you something about a song and how it helped them. But I think it's really beautiful.

You get to go do that. It's my heart breaks just thinking about you having to go through this. I really appreciate you sharing it. Because I do think that so many people are suffering loss. And to hear you talk about your loss is comforting. Yeah. Well, that's kind of what surprised me as well is, like, how many people are suffering loss and grieving. You know, it's more than you think, you know, because we're in our own little happy bubble, like, doing our stuff, you know.

But holy man, like. And a lot of us can't share. Like, we don't have the. That's true, too. Exactly. We don't have the words. I know. You know, you've always had good use of words.

And like, I think you're an open communicative person. Yeah. You know, your songs have always been like, like from the heart feels like someone's writing in a journal a little bit. Totally. But not everyone has that. It's hard to find words. Yeah. Oh, boy.

It's a really beautiful or what's the word? It's just a really generous thing of you. I don't. I think it's like. I don't know. Thank you. I think it's like the good side of humanity is this, is people like sharing and caring and offering support, compassion.

I think this is the highest vibration of humanity is like compassion and to show love to someone you don't know. Totally. To care for someone you don't know. To see someone suffer. Totally. For you to feel their suffering if you don't know them. I think that's when we're at the highest.

level of the human, you know, evolution is when we feel care towards one another, compassion towards one another. And, you know, today I was thinking about it because I've obviously been a big fan for a long time. You know that. Maybe you don't know that. I don't know. But been a fan. Yeah, well, that's very cool. Yeah. And even when I heard about Dorian, I can't find words to even, a lot of times, like, I don't, like, I don't, I don't grieve publicly when someone dies, I don't know what the post. Totally, totally. And I see something going on and I want to offer compassion and love.

But I find myself at a loss for the, I guess I just feel so, I feel so much reverence to that moment of like what you must be going through. I have no words most of the time. And I always said, if I ever see Ben, I'm going to offer him the best I can offer, the best condolences I can offer him. or just give him a hug or tell him, you know, how sorry I was when I heard it. I'm how heartbroken I was when I heard it. But there was no good way for me to do that over text or over in the internet.

It just never feels right to me in those human moments. And some people, it is right. Like I'm not saying you shouldn't support people's loss. Just got to do you, right? But for me, it's just always hard to. but but I remember that and and then you sitting here today I think to myself this is the most powerful version of someone going through the worst thing you could think of and going forward and showing people how to go forward yeah I mean it's my way of going forward and I'm just like

walking through the fire yeah that's what I've just been saying I'm just like you know just walking right through it, eyes wide open, you know. Then how's your wife? She's good today right now. You know, it's like, yeah, it was always, you know, one step at a time, one breath at a time, you know. But like one thing I will say, like the three of us, me, Liz and Judah, from that night, that horrible night onward, I mean, we've just been such a unit talking about everything. You know, and they say there's like no right way to grieve. there's no wrong way to grieve.

Everybody grieves in their own way. Yeah. You know, and like, so we would just like talk about our feelings, how we're feeling. You know, some days you're just completely pissed off, you know. And, you know, she had a lot of like, I knew I shouldn't have let him go skate with his friends that night. It was a school night, you know. I mean, I remember, like the four of us were having dinner. It was like maybe 6 p.m. or something on maybe a Monday.

And, you know, we're like having dinner. and Jude was like, hey, I think I'm going to go skate with Dylan and the guys because Dylan just got a new half pipe or something in the backyard, and so they were skating over there a bunch. It's like, I'm going to go skate after dinner, and Liz was like, well, Dorian, it's a school night. And then she started kind of giving it to him

because she was like, you know, like you have that test, you know, later in the week. Yeah. Like, you really need to kind of like think about the future. You need to like study, like do your home? homework like it was like a whole thing like gave him the whole like it's time to step up your game yeah conversation and he was like yeah i hear you but i'm still going to go skate you know and we were like okay and so then after we ate he left he's like i love you guys and that was it um last time we saw him and um it was just like there's so many things like it was almost like he didn't have his soul didn't

have to worry about like studying or like you know it's like I don't even think he really knew the difference like we would be having dinner sometimes or Liz would cook something and he'd be like god mom like this is the best steak ever and she'd be like honey it's chicken you know like he didn't ever know the difference between steak and chicken or like he didn't care like political views he didn't know democrat republican conservative liberal he didn't give a shit about any of those like kind of earthly different channel things he was just on some other level of like he was And it's funny, like in second grade, you know, you get like an award at the end of the year. Like every kid gets a thing.

And he got the Friend to All award, you know? Yeah, of course. And we were like, there you go, like, friend to all. And that's kind of like, was always sort of a joke. But it was always like the truth of like how Dorian ran. Yeah. Like he was like he was. What a cool guy.

It was a cool guy. Like friends with like the band nerds, the skaters, the cheerleaders, the football. Like it was like he had no enemies. Everyone thought it was cool. He just did his. thing. So anyway, I don't know. I got on a tangent there, but... No, it's a good tangent. It's a nice look at a special guy. It's hard to understand someone that comes here for a short period. And then you think about it and you're like,

I would bet you any amount of money that the amount of time that you got with Dorian in 16 years, probably a lot of parents for lots of different reasons, and it could be their divorce, or it could be they travel for work or whatever, or they're just not plugged in, or who knows, like every family's different, but I'll bet you the quality time you got

was a lifetime of time. And it'll never be enough. Yeah, exactly. It'll never be enough. But I feel that. I feel that it was what I got, and I'm satisfied with that. Like, it was huge.

I bet it was special. I could see you guys. Yes. Like together. Yes. I'll bet you're best friends. Totally. I think about that.

I'm best friends with my son. Yes. It's like he's my guy. I don't know. I could just hang out with them and do nothing. Yeah. Like I just want to be near him. I know.

I know, man. He's cool because he's 15. And like, you know when at 14, 15, they start pulling away and they have their friends. And like, it's fine. I'm not like getting in the way. But I just want to be around him. And he lets me sometimes. I love that.

He lets me. I love that. You know. I know he doesn't want to be with me. Right. Exactly. But he lets me. Yeah.

He'll let me drive him. Or he'll let me just get the extra hour of whatever. Like he'll spend time with me. Oh, that's so good. And I know that's because we're friends. I know it's because he's like looking out for me because he doesn't want me to be alone. Yeah. And the girls are always going to dance and doing this and doing that.

And my daughter, I would say, is very much like this with Nicole. she's very they're very tight and even with her other extracurricular life yeah she lets Nicole come along a lot love and let her hang out a little bit but it's cool men but it's hard for teenagers to like let their parents hang around a little bit because I know they're trying to get their own thing going I know well I think it means we're cool parents hopefully you know it's like but I could see you guys like yeah hanging all the time oh bro I mean he was super transparent with us like And all of this goes back to like, okay, well, thank good. Like I knew the, you know, the password to his phone, getting on his laptop.

And like, thank God because like all the voice memos and like photos and, you know, and I feel so lucky. And I've met like other parents who have been in this similar situation and didn't have any connection, you know, and like how sad. So I'm very another thing. Like I'm thankful. Like thanks, Dorian like for like just being open with me because it's helping me survive. You know? So your son's into music?

He is. Doing the FL thing? Yeah, he produces. Straight up. Yeah. Does he rhyme? Like, does he write lyrics? No, he just produces.

Straight music. He doesn't sing. He doesn't. Or so he says. Okay. I've always said, I think you can sing, but he's like, no way, dad. You're fucking crazy. He always says that.

You're fucking crazy. I can't seek. And I'm like, I think you can, but just keep producing. Go ahead. Yeah. And he's more into like hip hop. Sure. But very good.

Very good. It also hates when I talk about how I think he's good. Says I'm like glossing or glazing or so. Glaze or don't glaze that shit. I'm still working blah, blah, blah. But I think he's good. I'm just like, yo, that shit is fired, dude. That sounds good.

But he does it all the time. Yeah, that's good. And so we found a school that has like a really great music art institute in the school. And they have like, if your pathway is like the arts, they let you do a lot of that at school. Love that. And that's the whole reason we chose the school. Love that.

So he's doing at least like six or seven hours a week at school. He's doing logic and that kind of stuff. Great. And so that's why we chose the school because I don't really care about school. So. Yeah. I know. My kids. I didn't even know what my kids did.

I did. Okay. Yeah. Almost didn't. I went to, I had to go to night school basically and get credits. And then I got to March in the graduation. My mom was just like dead set on me. That's cool. That's good.

Yeah. Like cap and gown moment. So I had to go to night school and get credits for math or something. And then I had this science teacher who I was failing. I felt every class, math, science, English. Me too. I felt every class. So I could get credits for a bunch of them, but I couldn't get the science credit.

So I had to go to him the last like two weeks of school and just beg him and say, will you will you please give me a passing grade yeah will you give me a d so I can graduate and he did it was very cool I'll never forget it

I said I'm not going to college I'm not coming back here I just want to graduate my mom's up my you know she's she's dying to see me graduate will you please give me this I'll never forget it and he was like yeah and then I we graduated

I graduated with a 1.65 GPA it's a graduate Indiana Jones. There we go. There we go. Slide through the Boulder. And were your parents musical?

Like, are you from a musical family or was it just you and Benji just all of a sudden had music in you? So we grew up in church. Okay. So there was a lot of church singing. Music around. Yeah. Church music.

Like three days a week we were at church. Okay. Just all the time. It's a heavy dose. My parents were very religious. So we weren't allowed to listen to anything secular. but my dad loved Motown

so he always listened to like old records and stuff all the time Stevie Wonder Marvin Gay and he was in a band in high school like a soul band in D.C. He grew up in D.C. So he was in like this soul

some kind of... What did he play? Keys. Really? Yeah. And so he never talked about it. He never talked about it. Really? He never let the artist side of him ever show he was like a he was a old school like tough guy dang like worked okay labor jobs yes very rugged he worked in a slaughterhouse damn like worked like all like he could lay it down on key but in high school he was in like a band and he played like keys like organ or something yeah that'd be like the

70s 70s yeah and um early 70s maybe i don't know uh do you know when your dad was born what year 52? My dad was born in 52 as well. My dad's from Bethesda. Okay. Maryland. So kind of near. Yeah, yeah, D.C. That's D.C. That's D.C. My dad grew up in southeast D.C. Okay. His whole life. And then he moved us out to like the country when he got married to my mom.

He wanted like a suburban life. Yep. Not a city life because he grew up. It was very hard. It was like a tough place to grow up. And so he like tried to fly the straight and narrow. He also got into some trouble and stuff. Yeah. And like he was trying to be honest.

So he married my mom and I could see. Now when I look back to my dad, I have a lot of love for what he had to go through and what he had to do. He's gone now. So when did he pass? In 2019. Okay. And we had reconnected. He left when I was young.

Okay. So he had a problem with addiction. So he was, you know, he was in it. He had his struggling, you know. And my mom, I think, was a handful. And they didn't have any resources to like, for any of it. Yeah. So they're just like flying.

There you go. Raw dog in marriage. Yeah. Raw dog in marriage. Just no help. Yeah. No. Straight up.

So I always look back now and I go like, God bless my parents. Yeah. But they were a fucking mess. Did the best they could. He grows up in the inner city, moves out to the country. tries to really live an honest life. Trying not to drink. Trying not to, you know, fight and fuck and do all that stuff.

And as dirty as all that sounds, like, it suits him. He's just like a rough guy. Like, and you kind of love him? Like, if you met him, you love him. He's just like an old school, cool-ass guy. If he doesn't have to be married and he doesn't have to, like, you know. Sure. Be square, I think.

Yeah. Great guy, though. pull over and help people on the side of the road, would do, uh, you know, at his funeral, it was so big like so many people came and everyone had a story about something he did for them. He like, redid their baby's nursery or remodeled their bathroom, never charged anyone. He was just that guy. He was like, uh, he'd fixed stuff. You know what I mean?

Yes. So, musically, I think I got it from him. Yeah. But he never talked about it because I think he actually had aspirations or something. Right. And he never let that grow at all. He killed it. Yeah.

And to have a family and try to do the right thing. And, you know, and then he struggled the whole time he was married. I think there were a few good years there. But then he just struggled with the alcohol and with the life, I think, that he was in. So then he left when I was young. And I was angry at him forever for probably 20 years. I was angry at him. And then I had kids.

And I was like, I'm fucking terrified. I'm going to show up. And I did. Thank God. But I also had an amazing wife who was, and not to say my mom was an amazing wife. It's a different time though. My wife was like, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to put this baby first and we're going to focus on that.

And then every time we run into a problem, we'll talk to someone. We'll go to therapy and we'll figure it out. And then we just started going down the road. Great. And it was great. Yeah. And it's been 18 years together. And it's great.

Love it. but when I had kids I realized like oh damn this fatherhood thing is right it fucks you up real yeah yeah totally so then I reconnected with him when I got 10 really really solid great years good we had a really nice relationship and actually like he had he been following you and your career yeah yeah he was so proud he was so proud okay but always stayed back wow never came out yeah in the was he still in the DC area? Yeah, yeah. I remember one time he called me and goes, hey, hey, I just won't let you know.

I got a DUI last night. Oh, shit. And the cop, he let me off because I got pulled over last night and I was drinking. And I was only about a mile from the house. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And he goes, yeah, but I'm, you know, the cop, he let me go. He followed me home. And because he was a fan.

exactly he goes i i didn't mean to but you know and i was like it's all good dad yeah please use that card me but don't drink don't drink and drive yes um but he was like that he was funny but he always stayed back like he never came out and made uh any noise in the world as it pertained to me my life my career or my wife is a famous person or my yeah whatever like all the stuff people like seem to care about. Yep. Or make, you know, news about. Yeah.

Which we've always kind of just like navigated through and around and tried to like, like I get it. It's interesting when someone's famous and they do something stupid or they fuck up or they or they, or you think they did or someone says they did. Like I get the circus of it, the fame circus. We've always just tried to navigate through it and around it. Yes. Yes.

find a balance of like, okay, I go to work. Sometimes I got to go get on camera and wave and some of it I like. I want to do that TV show or I care about that interview with that magazine or whatever, you know? And there's like, I always say it's like an 80-20 thing. 80% of it you actually don't give a fuck about when it comes to promo and press and all that. But 20 of it you do. Like you find ones who you really care about. You're like, for sure.

And those ones are the ones that make or break you in the sense of your perception of if it's going good because you may go do a Rolling Stone interview. And if the writer doesn't give a fuck, it ruined the whole aspirational idea of Rolling Stone for you. Oh, God. I know. But if they care, it's magic. Game changer. Yeah. Oh, I made it.

Totally. This big magazine cares about it. So, but my dad always stayed like, like, like, he was not that. He was a humble dude. Yeah. Just like, you worked, you did your thing. Wouldn't take anything from me. I was always trying to offer him.

Oh. Like, I was like, Dad, you need to retire. He worked until the day he died. Worked hard. Yeah. Like, hard work. Like, worked in a shipyard. Damn.

Like, worked his ass off. A lot of songs in there about this guy, bro. Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. He always said, I'm all right. I'm good. I was like, Dad, you need to retire.

Like, can we figure out something? Like, I know you don't want any, any help or anything. He goes, no, I'm good. He's like, if I stopped working, I'll die. I was like, if you stop drinking, you'll live a long time. Sure. That would be helpful. Well, we'd always laugh about it because he was good.

He was just, but we got 10 really great years. And I always think it's kind of a shame. Because my whole, when I was young, he was always working. But those 10 years are better than a lot of people get. That's it. With their dad. There we go again. And it gave me wisdom.

Yeah. He gave me wisdom about my son. He gave me wisdom to enjoy. Yes. But also how to act, how to be, how to lay back a little. Like what my dad did, he laid back. He didn't, he wasn't out in the world telling stories and writing books. And he could have.

What am I to do? Like, everybody's got their own story. That's it. My wife loved him. She was obsessed with him. He was just a character. I told this story before. First time he ever met my wife's dad, Lionel.

So obviously, it was early kids were like two or three. They loved him, my kids. They were like, grand, grandpa was like, he drove a 65 Impala. Damn. He was just a cool guy. Yeah. And, but he loved to drink. And he showed up at Thanksgiving with a black eye.

Okay. He got into a bar fight. First time he's meeting Lionel. And he goes, sorry about mine. He's like wearing a pair of Ray then. He's wearing a pair of raid dance inside. Oh, my God. He's always cool.

And I was like, Dad, it's five o'clock in the evening. And we're inside. You can't. He can't. And I was like, he went. And I was like, whoa, what happened? He goes, eh, you should see the other guy. Classic.

Classic. And Vinald loved him. Love them. He's just real. It's a real dude. But you think about that and you go, you know what? I wouldn't change it now. As a young guy, I was always angry.

I wrote so many songs. Right. About my dad, how much I hated him. Yeah. And I didn't understand the journey a son has to go on and a father has to go on. Yes. We have to be our own men. Yeah.

Some way, some shape, some form. Totally. Some stuff we're going to learn from our fathers and some stuff we're going to learn from our sons. Yep. And when he passed away, I felt like it was the first time I could look death in the eyes. I'd always been too afraid. And it was the biggest gift he ever gave me was this fear I'd always had that I don't have anymore. Right.

I have a different relationship with it. Great. And it's made life that much. It's changed life. It's made life richer. Yeah. Because I don't live in that fear. But he went there.

And like you said, like our relationship, it maybe sounds crazy to say it, but it's amazing now. Yeah. It's my, my spiritual life became alive because my dad crossed over. And like we are still connected. Like I feel him winking at me. Like all the good things he could never give me here. Like he continues to like wink at me all the time. Like I can feel like that.

You know what I mean? Yes, man. Oh. It's just like blessings that I can't explain because it's not about, it's not money. It's not, it's not anything that you think you'd want here. Like, you think you want a hit song or you think you want money or you think you want a bigger house? I don't know. I'm not.

And, like my music, my hair changed with me. And he has to be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my cabo needs. Nutrition Profunda. Protection Contraxed Contraband. 99% less of rotura

and punas under control new potion 9 of Sebastian professional the secret professional of who

not see tendences but of who they're not to be like good yes like sitting here good

that's it at what point do you feel like there was like a new normal that started to feel like does that make sense

yeah I'm with you I think well A few weeks after, over the past few years, I've become really close with Ed Shearon as friends. And he called me up a few weeks after. He knew Dorian as well. He'd been to our house on the ranch and dripping springs and the whole thing. And he said, hey, man, like, I know you're going through it right now,

but I'm doing this tour where I'm playing stadiums on Saturday night and I'm doing theaters on Friday night. Oh, wow. would you like to come and do play with me on the Friday night theater shows like and he had just lost a friend of his. Jamal had just died. And so he was going through shit. And it's like, you know, I don't know if you even feel like it, but if you do, I just want you know these dates are available.

And I at that point wasn't even thinking about getting back on stage and playing music. But I just, it actually sounds like a great idea though when I think about it. Well, and I said to myself, I'm like, well, at some. point I'm going to have to get back up there and play music and the more I thought about it I said to myself yeah like I actually need this right now and so we did this we we so I basically went on tour like you know maybe a month or two later and they were emotional shows and it was also one of those weird things too because you know you're opening for such a huge artist so many of the people in the crowd never heard of Ben Quiller so I wasn't going to like bring down the vibe me like

by the way my son just died. So it was kind of like this anonymous healing. Right. It was cool, you know? Because I was like, okay, like we're going to do the show. You know, when you open for someone, you're trying to win over the crowd and you're doing your thing. Yeah, and you're like warming everybody up.

Exactly. You're waiting them over. You're also trying to be like a good house guest. Like whenever we open, I'm always like trying to like find my place to like be a good guest on someone's tour. Totally. It's a cool thing. It's such a cool thing.

I love opening. Yeah. Yeah, so I did that tour. And that, I think, was the first time that I felt like, okay, like, this is, I can still have the life I knew, you know, as a performer. And, yeah, those were amazing shows. Ed's a nice guy. So good. He's such a nice guy.

Real deal. I don't know him well, but I know him in passing. And every time I've ever seen him. He is such a sweetheart. Totally. He's a really, like, warm guy. Yes. So real.

Yeah, he is. He is. And chasing those songs, man. I know, man. The guy loves to write a song. Sure does. I can see. It's interesting with him.

Like, he's always been after writing a great song. Totally. And you can see it in him. He's like, he's never satisfied. Yeah. He's chasing down that. You finish one and then he needs the next. Yeah.

It's cool. Yeah. Real artist. Love that. Yeah. What a sweet thing to be able to offer a friend. I know. That was really, that was what I, one of the things I needed. I'm sure he got some comfort. Oh, totally.

In knowing that someone else who was grieving got to, I don't know, there's something about this thing that I think like, it doesn't matter how much success you have as a musician. At your heart and in your soul, you're always going to be like a band kid. from a garage or like a singer-songwriter on a stool. Yeah. And there's some camaraderie in like sharing your thing with someone else who needs it for a different reason. Yeah.

It's not like you're like out there knocking on doors trying to find tours to open. Like you're not, you're just not at that place in your life. Totally. You know, maybe 20 years ago we were like, I'll open for anyone. Of course. Now I'm kind of like, what are the dates? Yeah, exactly. When is it?

What are the venues? You know what I mean? Like, you're just kidding. There's a lot to consider. And you're older and like, that's just where you're at, right? For sure. But then there's this higher meaning and higher purpose and this serendipitous moment that arises where you're, again, some amazing, beautiful thing about music is that you and Ed have an organic friendship,

probably steeped in musical camaraderie and admiration and all the things. Right. When you meet another artist and you're like, Oh, fuck with you. Yeah, exactly. You're like my kind of people. Exactly. And on one side, you're in this moment of grief.

And on the other side, he's in a moment of grief. And all he knew how to do was to say, hey, you want to come on the road? Right. And like, together, you guys, like, had some kind of. That was our language. Like, that was like, you know, that's how we speak. It's interesting. Want to go on tour?

Music kind of like. What else is there that we can do right now? But play the shows, you know? Play the shows. And then, like, you know. like probably sit back and sit there. And talk about stuff. Exactly.

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of healing in that. That's it. But it's funny how like music always kind of is there. It's so weaved into everything we are. Oh, my God, yeah. It's crazy, right?

So crazy. How long have you been making music? Forget about recording records. Yeah, yeah, no. I know, exactly. I was seven years old when my dad said, Hey, Ben, I'm going to teach how to play drums today. Wow. I was like, okay. And so we went up to the attic and dusted off his old drum set. He had this old Rogers kit from the 1960s, set it up in the living room. Really, because he wanted to play guitar with somebody. And I remember him clearly saying, all drummers are frustrated guitar players. So you're going to be my drummer now, and I'm going to play guitar. So he set up the drum set. That's for real, right? And so he sets up the drum set. And, you know, he explains, okay, Ben, there's four

beats and music. You just count one, two, three, four, and go back to one and just keep doing that. I'm like, okay. And he says, okay, well, the bass drum's going to hit on one and three. The hat's going to hit all four of them, one, two, three, four. And the snare is going to go in between the bass drum on two and four. Boom, pop, boom, pop. So I learned my first beat at seven. And for months, you know, I felt like a year, but I was seven years old. But for a long time, every day he'd come home from work and we would just play music and we had a total

repertoire. We had like six or seven tunes. It was like all Beatles Hendricks, the Hollies. So you guys were close. Very close. That's so sick. Yeah. Me and my dad super tight. And yeah, so we jammed

and then a year later when I was eight, someone taught me how to play heart and soul on the piano. That's a song ever. I can play it too. Totally. And I saw the pattern and I'm like, all right, well, what if I, instead of going to the second chord,

what if I go to the third chord, then the second chord, then the fourth chord. Now we're right. And then it sounded like, let it be. And I love the Beatles. And so I was like, oh, my God. So let it be's heart and soul like inside out. I'm like, all right, well, what if I skip the second and third chord and go from the first chord to the fourth chord? Yeah.

Then the third, you know? And that sounded like a progression I'd never heard before. for at eight years old. Meanwhile, there's thousands of songs with that progression. But I was like, wow, this is something new. So I started making up my own songs. Then I got a guitar when I was 10, learned an E chord and an A chord. Same thing. Just anytime I would learn a chord, I'd make up a song. And Nirvana came out in 91. I remember I was like at the skating rink and smells like teen spirit comes on. And I literally had to like pull over. And I was like, what is this? This is the coolest shit I've ever fucking heard.

And so I literally skated around, you know, it was like 11 years old or whatever I was. It skated around to the DJ booth and I'm like, what the fuck is this? And he holds up the never mind with the baby and the dollar. He's like, dude, it's called Nirvana. The roller rink. And I was like, holy shit and went and got that CD the next day. And so, yeah, like the Beatles made me write songs and Nirvana made me start a band. Yeah.

That's really my, it's like where I come from. Lim's my roots. Did you think like I'm going to be an indie rock god? Didn't think that. I mean, I, uh, but I did aspire to like I want to great. Like you had aspirations. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Um, I wasn't aware of like any kind of the difference between independent and like major label or like any of. I didn't know those things because like it was all just good music. Yeah. That was the category. And so like, my. Yeah, like my dad having grown up in Bethesda, Maryland, we only knew one person in the music business. Where did you grow up?

So I grew up in Texas. Okay. So my dad grew up in Maryland, went to medical school in New York, did his residency in San Francisco. That's where I was born. And then you moved to Texas. And then we moved to Texas. And he was the first doctor in this little podunk town. Okay.

And so he was doc. Like literally like everyone's doctor in this like town of 400 people. Cool. And then they moved up the road like an hour to Greenville, Texas, where they still live today and my two sisters live there. Okay. So Greenville is where we are, where we are in the story, you know, and so. And where are you now? Basically Austin. Like I'm right outside. I'm in like the woodstock of Austin. Yeah. Austin's amazing. Austin's dope.

And it's just like, especially the last like five years, it's gotten just insanely. Oh, yeah, totally. So I'm like, I'm out in the country. I'm like 45 minutes west of town. It's like the woodstock of Austin. How often do you, like, go to Austin to town? Maybe, like, date night or something? Yeah, like date night or if there's a show, friends are coming through. Honestly, I barely leave the ranch, dude. Like, I have, like, such a setup that I'm just like, I'm good, yeah.

How many acres is it? 30 acres. Wow. Which is like just, I mean, in Texas terms, that's like, they call that a gentleman's ranch. Like a baby ranch. No, that's little, dude. 30 acres is little, bro. In Texas terms.

Right. Right. But like... In L.A. It's a lot. In L.A., that'd be like a lot. But for me, it's a lot. You know, because, you know, I grew up in Greenville, which is a small town and then moved

up to New York and really like started my solo career. Like after Rattish, moved up to New York and in the early 2000s. Yeah. Spread your wings. Exactly. But so then when we had Dorian, he was born in New York, we moved to Austin. And then we found, we always, you know, how you have like your little real estate searches. like go and you know just all your dream and we always wanted like some acreage with some live water

on it maybe and an old house those are like our three things and now house you fixed up yep and that's exactly and so it's like this old Victorian house from the 1880s and there's a swimming hall spring fed swimming home the property so yeah it's it's a perfect amount of land there's an old barn on the property that we've renovated into a studio badass recording studio So when you're in the Austin area, you have to come down. I would love that. But yeah, so Dripping Springs is where I am. I go into Austin when I need to, you know, or when I want to, but it's not, I'm good at home.

There's so much good stuff in Austin. There is. You know, Philip Lee. No. He has the restaurants, like NADC. Burger. Have you heard of that? I know who he is, but I haven't been to those joints. Oh, dude.

He's such a good. He's a great guy, but he has, like, such good restaurants. I met him in L.A. because when he first started, like, probably not first started, but like 10 years ago maybe his sushi bar concept was like the first one was in Encino. And me and Nicole went and him and his wife were working. They're like a husband-wife team. They were working and we were like, you guys are so cool. Love that. And like we met them. And then we just started following, we became friends and we started following all their restaurants wherever they. But Austin, I think they live in Austin now.

Okay. And they're like all in on Austin. I have to go say what's up. And the mothership is there. The comedy club. Have you been there? I haven't been there yet. Oh really?

I dropped 311 came to town recently in AWOL nation package tour and went out to that gig. And afterwards AWOL they were like, we want to go to the mothership. And so I dropped them off out front. It's like the best comedy in the U.S. right now. Yeah, I know. I haven't been. All the comedians. Yeah, it's hard to get in too.

You got like, you know. Oh, you got to have. You got to like, they sell out and I don't know like all the, you know, all the people running that. Right. I don't either. But I want to know. Yeah, I want to go to a show there. Yeah.

Because I love stand up. Me too. Austin's like the number one. Obviously New York is New York and L.A. is L.A. is L.A. But I think Austin's like the number one standup town now. Okay. There you go. I actually think it's like, I'm pretty sure it's like like where can be.

Yeah. Comedians go to Austin now to try and make it in comedy. It's insane. Let's go. That happened after COVID. Like that happened like during COVID or whatever. Totally. So that's crazy.

So what a good place to be. Yeah, it's good. Centurally located. Centurally located. Yeah, it's easy. Get to New York. It's L.A.

It's Nashville. Get to Nashville. My brother Josh lives in Nashville now. Okay. Yeah. So we opened office for MDDN and Nashville like weeks ago. Sick. Yeah.

I know. So the record's coming out. Records coming out. Tour? Yep, tour, actually. So just did the East Coast leading up to the album release and then hitting the West Coast after the album drops. And yeah, just touring. Going to, you know, the shows are great.

The band's great. No complaints there, you know. What do you hope this record, like, achieves? Well, I think it's sort of what we were talking about earlier. If there's anyone out there going through pain and suffering and grief and loss, I really hope this album might have something for them. You know, I mean, there's a lot in these songs and just the vibe of it, too, the way the album sounds sonically and it's fairly stripped down, but it's super honest. It's like probably the most emotionally honest music I've made yet, and that's saying a lot, because my stuff's known for being pretty emotional. Yeah, you know? But yeah, it's, again, it's like,

it's me walking through the fire and, and it's just how I'm doing it. And as a result, you know, if anybody else, if it touches one person, that would be great, you know. Is it weird, like, at this stage in our lives? How old are you? I'm 43. Okay, I'm older than you. I'm 46. Really? Okay. Yeah. Not to say I'm surprised. You, you, uh, but I thought maybe, we were the same age. Me too. I thought, I thought,

like, I thought you'd been around longer than me, so I always thought you were maybe older than me, but you got started so young. Yeah, like, it was like the radish signs

to Mercury Records when I was 15. Yeah. So like that, what, you were 17? What year was it? Yeah, 96 is when.

Yeah, I was 17. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's probably why it just felt like. Yeah. But I thought we were the same age too.

Yeah. What's funny is like when you came backstage, when I was with Evan Dando and Ben Lee and were like, hey, these two brothers are going to sing for us and you guys say, I figured you were younger than me. Yeah. You know, because I was like the one at this gig. I mean, you guys were just...

Give us a shot, mister. Yeah, exactly. Come on. Give us a shot. Just let me play one song. That's what we were really on. And Ben was so cool. Yes. Ben Lee is just like... Oh, the man. Pure love. Total. I love Ben Lee. Total. Let me say. Ben was on the show.

He was one of my early guests. Ben is... Also, by the way, He has no idea because I'm not very good at articulating or communicating most of the time with people how much they've impacted me. And I'm also like strangely, I can't explain it. I have a lot of information in here, but it's hard to remember and get out in real time. Yes. So if I'm sitting here and I could go through your whole catalog and name all your songs, I could right here. But if you were asking me, I'd be like, um, I know.

I have like a struggle. with it, but I retain a lot of information. And with Ben, he was on the show. I fucking know all his fucking music from. Noise addict all the way, every record. And when I had the conversation with him, I didn't talk about any of it. I didn't have, I couldn't recall any of it.

I know. I hear you. In real time, I think it's like the ADHD and the learning stuff that I have. Can you remember shows and like tours? I'm not good at that. No. Like I can't remember. Any of it.

Can't remember anything. Yeah. I call it Jamnesia. Yeah. That's what we have, bro. Some people go, remember that show when you jumped off the rafters and blah, blah, blah, I'm like, no. No. Or remember when so-and-so was there and they jumped on stage and sang with you?

And I'm like, kind of remember the so-and-so thing, but where? Where was it? Yeah, I can remember, like, the moment of coming backstage. Do you recall that now? I recall it, but I don't remember where it was. Well, because it was a weird place. It wasn't like a club or a venue. It felt almost like a teen center.

Like I just remember like the lights were pretty bright. And there was like a... Was it in Maryland? Yeah, or Virginia. Yeah. Weird. I don't know. But I remember.

But yeah. Because I think we sang surrender. I probably. But I remember going backstage with Ben and he was opening for Cracker. Oh. In like 95 or 94. or 90s, I can't remember 94, 95, 96 maybe. Maybe 96 had to have been 96.

Because he had already met you guys. Because we had met. And we were fans because I was a fan of noise addict. Because they got signed to Grand Royal and I was a Beastie Boy fan. So I was just digesting anything that any band touched that I liked. And you remember how the 90s were. There was no internet like that. You were just like magazines and that band toured with that band.

Yes, that was it. And you want to meet them if they were like. Yes. So we would wait, try to meet people. And we had our band. So we had like our demo with our sticker on it. And we would like give our demo tape or cassette tape to people. That's it.

And we're like in this band with Charlotte. Yes. We're about a lot. And then Ben was like one of the few people that was like, whoa, cool. Come backstage. And we were like, whoa. And then he had an acoustic guitar back there. And we were like, can we play one of our songs?

And he's like, sure. I love that. Now that I think about it, I'm like, I know. How many people would say yes? Maybe later. Yes. Next time.

I would, oh man, Ben Lee, what a guy. Ben Lee, I would tell you this. I don't know if good Charlotte would have existed if weren't for Ben Lee. And I'll tell you why for a few different things.

One, his early music informed, I remember Grandpa Wood. Mm-hmm. And I remember breathing tornadoes. Yeah. those records like informed my like idea of like songwriting. Good melody.

Like he's a songwriter. Yes. And but then even more importantly, because I loved lots of different music, but meeting him and him bringing us backstage, it lit a spark that kept us going. And most bands don't make it not, most good bands that like kids have that have talent don't make it because they quit. Yep.

It's about how long can you start. suffer. That's it. It's just like, how long can you suffer? It's the long game. Well, you know, anyone listening that wants to be a musician, if you want to be a musician, you're going to suffer the entire time. There's never a moment where you're not suffering. Nope. Um, because no one will ever understand you the way they want, you want them to. They'll never love the love. They'll love the one that you like. Oh, yeah. This is right. You know, it's always a different thing. It's, it's, it's, the merch designs I always love are the ones that never sell. Yeah, never sell. You know what So it's like, so it's just getting comfortable with the idea that no one's ever going to understand you.

And they're not going to like you the way that you want them to like you. They're going to like you this other way. That's it. You know what I mean? So like you can't write your own articles or your own headlines. Yeah. But if Ben Lee had it like we were 16 or 17, if he hadn't said yes, come back and play him that song. and he got excited.

He remembered. It showed you that it was possible. It was possible. We saw the backstage. Yeah. We saw it. We saw the backstage. It exists.

And then it was like a moment of confirmation. Yeah. Where like materialized. Yeah. And we kept going. And no one could tell us. That's the coolest. No.

Like it's not going to happen. No, we already been backstage. Yes. We're going to be backstage again. And so I give Ben a lot of spiritual credit. There's a few people like that that I've met in my career. Oh, yeah. That they don't realize that one action,

yes. One word like changes everything for someone's perception of what's possible, you know? So good. He also taught me how to take the time to talk to some kid. Like you don't know who they are. Exactly. They could might never make it. I don't know like what who,

but I always take the time. The other night this. this band reached out to me all the time on Instagram. There's like, I'm terrible with DMs and Instagram stuff, but I try. Every now and then I'll see a band and I'll click through and I'll listen to their music. I try to like engage and I talked to this guy for two hours on the phone. Great. We're not going to, I don't know if we're going to work together.

I don't. Right. But I just like thought his music is good and he seems like a charismatic person. But I checked his stuff out and he seems like it's, it seems real. It's not like some fluke Instagram marketing thing. It's like a musician trying to make it. And I talked to him for two hours. This band in D.C., actually from D.C.

That's cool. Okay. Called Hugh. H.U.E. Yeah. Wow. That's a good name. And they're cool. Yeah.

He comes from Go-Go. Oh. So you know D.C.? The Go-Go scene? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. So the go-go scene in D.C. is probably one of the most underappreciated, undermined,

ignored rich music scenes that has never been given its due attention. When are we talking? Anywhere from the GoGo started. I want to say it started in the 70s, maybe. It could have been the 60s, but I think it was the late 70s, early 80s this GoGo probably started. 90s, it really got vibrant. Lots of, and it's a, obviously it's like a cultural music movement in D.C.

in the inner city. People from D.C. will love go-go. I feel like it's never gotten kind of respect that it's a real, like, I look at it in the world music category of like, it's beat-driven, it's big bands,

but they write songs. If you listen to the great go-go bands, there are songs you can remember and songs that have been bitten in pop culture in rap. So like, go-go music in D.C. is like a well-known thing.

It's still a thing. Still a thing. And Hughes part of that. So there, This band, Hugh, the singer, came up in the go-go scene, played in some bands. Okay. And then, but he's a rock fan. So he plays rock music.

Okay. So he started a rock band called Hugh, but he's got elements of go-go. You can kind of hear in the music. And he wants to bring it even more. Okay. But a go-go band, there's could be like 12 members. Yeah. Very hard to make money.

Who's like the most famous go-go artist from that scene that? Okay, so there was Chuck Brown. Yeah. So Chuck Brown, but there was like junkyard, backyard band, junkyard band, backyard band. There was Huckabucks. There was rare essence, the Northeast Groovers. There was, now there's new ones. I think there's one called like New Vision maybe.

Anyway, so I saw this kid's Instagram and he had some flavors of go-go on there. And then we talked on the phone and he was telling me about his where he, his musical background. And I thought it was so great. And so I really hope their band continues to make music. I'm going to look them up. It's very early. I'll say that. I told him that.

I was like, you guys need to, like, you know, get a record or two under your belt. Yeah. And, but like, you got, they definitely got something. And the idea they're incorporating this, like, go-go music a little bit into theirs makes me excited because I feel like it's one little world of music. that I've always known about and loved and kind of like had an affection for coming from D.C. That I've never been able to talk about.

Harness or engage in or support. Well, that's dope. I mean, that's you paying it forward to this kid. And thinking about Ben Lee. I know. Well, that's the thing. And it's incredible to have those mentors in our lives, you know, people and angels, whatever you want to call them.

Yeah, they just, just people that. Yes. And man, just something small can be so huge. It's great. It really goes back to our perception of time. We think we need 50 years. What if five minutes was a lifetime of wisdom? What if Ben Lee bringing us backstage for that 15 to 20 minute thing?

What if me and Ben's relationship was only 20 minutes? Or what if it's been longer than that? but like, sure, yeah. If we take away our perception of time as this thing that like, I think we would waste less. I think we would waste none. That's right. I think if we actually thought about the impact of moments that we. Quality over quantity all day, you know.

And song. What if one song's enough? What if we don't need to write 200? What if one song? Yeah. You know? Yeah. We always get quantity.

Yeah, I know. There's a quantity thing. I don't like that. And especially these days with like digital music distribution, you know, and like playlisting. And there's such, I see so many young artists, there's definitely a desire or like a pressure to feel like you need to put out. It's like so single driven, you know, and I'm such an album person. Yeah, you are. But yeah, it's like, just put out good.

Try to put out your best music. You know, don't just put out music, you know. We got enough music, you know. Curate it a little bit. What's the name of the album? It's called Cover the Mirrors. Which is, it comes from a Jewish tradition, actually, of mourning. One of the things you do after someone dies for seven days,

you have to cover all the mirrors in your household. You're not supposed to see yourself. Like you're supposed to just get rid of your ego. You're at the lowest of the low. I thought that was a cool, cool album title, too. It's deep, but it's like got a lot to it. Yeah. Yeah, it's called Cover the Mirrors, May 30th,

which would have been Dorian's 19th birthday. So that's also woven in, you know, just to add a little more magic to the release day for me and my fam, you know. That's it. That's all that matters. That's what this whole thing is about. But I think something magical is around you. I feel it.

I feel something too. Yeah, I'll just say it. I mean, it's, you know, there's definitely, there's good, good things happening around this release that, you know, are different. Yeah. And I'm just riding it and enjoying this wave and thinking about Dorian every second. Yeah.

But, you know, it's funny. Like, after he died, like, I'd walk over. This is kind of a crazy. I don't know where we are in time, but we're good. Kind of two stories. Dorian's buried on our property. Wow. Which is, we have a family cemetery there.

God, how do I weave this? Basically, all I was going to say related to the album is shortly after he died, I'd, like, go and sit at his grave. And I'd just be like, Dorian, like, bring me some songs, dude. Like, come on. You know, like send me like tears. Just like, you know. And yeah, like he like co-wrote this whole thing.

Yeah. You know, it's pretty cool. It's real, dude. It's real. I'm telling you, I had a dream about my dad. And he was, it was so vivid. It was him visiting me. I know it.

I told my wife, I was like, he, I think. It was a visit. Like, do you believe people visit you in your dream? Like, because you're in like a, you're in your like, when we're unconscious, we're in our conscious state. Yes. So that's why I always tell people like, careful with your thoughts, control them. Yeah.

Because they turn the dial on your consciousness. And then if we can set our thoughts to positive and joy and love and compassion, then when we go to sleep, our consciousness is running on love, joy, compassion. If we're focused on the worry and the terrible things that are going to happen or how nothing's working for us, our hard, everything is, our subconscious is going to run on that. And our subconscious is actually smart enough to also pull us out of that, too. So our subconscious is our wisdom. So if we can control our consciousness in what we're consciously thinking, we can control our level of consciousness that's driven by our most conscious, most wise part, which is our subconscious.

Does that make sense? Yep. I'm with you. So master your thoughts. Yeah. And so anyways, in your dreams is your conscience is actually like your subconscious is at work. It's healing your body. It's giving you rest. It's doing all the things it needs to do so that when you get back awake, you can function. Anyway, so my dad came to me in a dream and he was like, it's great here. Check this out. Boom.

Boom. And he was changing outfits. That's awesome. He's like, check this out, man. And it was him. He was like, check this out, man. You're going to love this. Boom.

I'm good. Boom. And then he's like, watch. this. And he was like, watch this. And he was like, boom. And behind him, the scene changed. And he was somewhere else.

He's like, I can get around like that, man. And I was like, that's dope, dad. And he's like, it's amazing. That's awesome. He's like, it's amazing. Don't worry about me. I can get around so fast. Right.

And I was like, okay, I woke up and I was like, that was so real. And I told Nicole, I was like, do you think that it's a visit? And she's like, yes. That's a visit. Yes. Yeah. And he said in the dream, he was like, I'm going to come say hi every now and then when you hear a song.

It's me. And the hair of my arm stands up. A song out here will come on and it's one of the songs used to play when we were a kid. Now, these are big Motown songs. Like one of Motown, yeah. Like I just called to say, I love you. It was a song. Oh, Stephen.

I swear, I'm moments of my life where I'm driving down the road or I'm somewhere feeling some moment of maybe sadness or self-doubt. I have a lot of self-doubt or self-esteem, low self-esteem. Yeah. Can I do that? I don't know. You know, Lily? Of course.

Yeah. I just call you, I love you would come on and I'd be like, oh, you're just telling me you love me. You see in a moment where I need someone to tell me they love me. And it's like very, so anyways, I think that the visit is a real thing. And I think like where I'm going with that was,

they travel faster than we do. They get wisdom. And like I feel it like this weird connection with my dad that is like so tight now. It's like a different, I have a different remembrance of my life with him than actually was the reality. Because of where we're at now. Yeah. And it's like he travels fast.

Yes. It's weird. Like I get little zings. Traveling around. Yeah. Changing outfits. I love that. Yeah.

Yeah. it. I love that. That's kind of, I hear him. Like if someone's like, hey, what do you think about this? I either hear, oh, no, man, come on, nothing's free. That's what he'd always say. Nothing's free. Or he'd say. Truth. You know what I mean? He's like, ah, no one's getting rich quick. Right? There's no get rich quick. He used to say things like that. Yeah. And in business and in work, I hear his voice like, sing me on a, or like, yeah, man, do it. That's cool. You know what I mean? So it's weird. He's guiding, dude. Yeah, he's guide. But you probably get information.

There's a stream. Yeah, no, for sure. You've had a wild career. I know. Yeah. I know. It's like, it's funny. Like, I feel like I've been doing it forever.

But it's like also like there's no such thing as an old song. Now in the world we live in is like, I'm a new artist to like so many people that are just finding out about Ben Queller. So it's like, okay, right on. I'm a new artist. Cool. The kind of music you make is very ripe right now. Yeah. Like the next 10 years.

The 90s are like pretty happening. Like that it's kind of funny. Someone was telling me that the other day. They're like, dude, well, it's so cool. Like your new single dollar store, which is like doing so well. It's like so 90s, you know, and that's like happening right now. Dollar Store is a single. It's called Dollar Store.

Yeah. Featuring Waxahatchee, great artist, sings on it with me. And, but yeah, it's very 90s. And I was just telling my friend, I was like, well, that's cool that I guess the 90s are happening because I had never changed. You know, it's like, I'm just like, I've just been Ben Quiller the whole time. And now it's like finally aligning. You're the real deal, bro. It's like happening.

Yeah. Like a lot of people need a stylist for this to happen. Yeah. Oh, really? What? I'm just saying, like, you could see that, right? You could see someone like, like, like, come in and they're like the 90s or the band got on. You like stayed on your track and the trend caught you.

Right. You know. But if someone dove into your catalog, it's exciting to me to think about that. I go, oh, wow, that's fun. You get the experience that music for the first time. Think about this. The algorithms have really owned the last 10 years. If I say like 2015 was when Spotify really jumped off.

And the last 10 years, you'd have to look at it like this. a new system, an ecosystem was forming and growing. And now it is fully formed and fully grown. So the algorithm needed to do what it's been doing, which is own our ears, own our attention. But now it's done. And you can see this in where music is right now. Algorithmic music, which if anyone listening that doesn't understand what I'm saying,

is track-based music. It's created in your computer on your laptop. usually through logic, but there's other FL studios. There's other ways people make music. That's track based in the box music. I'm not criticizing it. I'm explaining what it is.

So it's all zeros and it's computer programming. Yep. That makes a sound. Yep. That's a frequency. It's a very, it's a frequency that is different than if we had live guitars plugged in.

Yep. And we're playing. and now what you hear a lot of is you hear tracks made in the box with live instruments on top. So there's a layered. A little hybrid. And then there's also the way we used to make records, which you make live,

you track live, and then you mix and you can overdub and all that, but it's a live recording versus digital recording. Yes. So, and then if you want to go really back to tape, like we made our first two records on tape, we have the tapes in the closet here of the records. Sick.

To tape is a whole different thing. Oh, yeah. But it's all analog versus digital. So very crude explanation of like a sum of like music. The last 10 years, our ears have been dominated by algorithmic, synthetic music. Yes. Quantized and tuned.

Yeah. Tuned. Which is really pleasant sometimes. Sure. There's lots of pleasant. Got its place. Yeah, for sure. what I'm seeing now, and they're saying as well,

and the labels are saying this too, because I deal with so many of them in so many different ways, is it's like it's gone off a cliff, and now everyone's digging for bands and singer-songwriters, and everyone wants guitars in their music. But also, I think it's going down another rabbit hole. I think people are going to keep digging. I think bands are going to go all the way back to recording live,

to tape, or whatever. I think it's going to go. That separated the real deal from the not real deal. Back in the day. I mean, yeah, it was like you had to be good as a band. You had to play live. You had to play live. And if you couldn't pull it off live, everyone was like, fuck them.

Yeah. But I think people just want real shit, man. Like, they just want something real, you know. I think it'll be a mix, but I do think that like the music fan at large. So like millions and millions and millions and millions of people are digging for something different for their ears. Like I think there's something that they're getting from live and bands and stuff that like

once you go to enough live shows even, your ear gets trained different. Yeah. You see a band play live. It blows your mind. It's true. You see four or five guys on stage making this noise together. Oh, yeah.

It changes your life. Yeah. And that's why we started a band. Of course. That was it. Yeah. And when we saw the Beastie Boys, they had a whole band on stage.

They would play instruments. Then they would walk around and rap. They did everything. That was a cool thing. Yeah. And that was, I think, also why good Charlotte was always kind of like weird, never one thing. Because that was our first real, like, love was the BC Boys. Whatever reason it was just like that was it.

That's a good first love. You know? We sound nothing like them, but like they taught us there's no rules. Yeah. They did like punk. They're punk stuff. They rap. They did.

So the 90s was like that. Yeah. Just like anything goes. Try stuff. That sounds cool. Yeah. Yeah. And now here you are with this record and tour.

And I have a feeling you're about to go on like a real creative run and have some fun. And I think there's going to be a lot of magic in it. Well, I'm open for it. You know, that's it. I'm just on the path. Just on the path, bro. Like, yeah, just it's all about love. I know it sounds so freaking corny, but that's kind of all it's about.

And, whoa, that's the song that made me write songs was all you need is love. John Lennon. I mean, I remember I was standing at my dad's turntable. I guess it was a magical mystery tour by the Beatles. And that song, All you need is love. I was looking over at the piano and then back at the record, All you need is love. but da da da da da da and then this progression and melody all you need is love love love is all you need

that something about those chords and that hits you hits you and i started crying yeah and i'm just like tears are going down in my face this record's spinning i'm looking at the piano and i'm like okay like this is what i'm gonna i'm gonna whatever's happening to me right now is what i want to do like I want to make people cry through. Like, this is magic, you know, the sound of this. And so then, yeah, I started playing the piano and learned heart and soul and the whole thing. But yeah, it is all about love. Yep.

As corny as that sounds. Facts. Dude, it's so good hanging out. So good hanging out with you. I'm excited for the record, the tour. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for receiving, you know, and like listening and hearing me out on it. because yeah, it's a lot.

It's like not something I ever thought I would talk about in like music interviews. You know what I mean? But again, what do we know? Like, why even try to predict? Like, this is just, this is the path I'm on. But you're being yourself. Being myself. That's it.

That's it. Thanks for coming, dude. Thank you. Great to see you. You too, man. Thank you for listening to Artist Friendly. We really appreciate it. If you like the show, you can also follow us on Spotify.

You can follow us on Instagram at artist. Friendly. And you can watch us on YouTube and Veeps. Leave comments. I always read them. See you next time.