Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Brandon Lake

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is joined by ⁠Brandon Lake⁠. Though Lake learned to play guitar from his father when he was younger, he didn’t put out his first album, Closer, until 2016 — gathering the financing through crowdfunding and releasing it independently. Since then, the worship music singer has gone on to make several other records, racking up several Grammy wins along the way, and will share his latest, King of Hearts, this Friday (June 13). In a conversation with Madden, Lake opens up about balancing fame and family, using music to share his relationship with faith, and his upcoming album. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly on this episode. I'm talking with five-time Grammy-winning artist and songwriter Brandon Lake. Let's go. I don't want to bed times. I don't want to have bad. I actually just hired a performance coach, health coach, and he's like changed my life. Is it like a longevity coach? Yeah, kind of. It's like mental, spiritual, physical, emotional, and really I was just hiring them to get help more healthy physically. And my wife went through a bunch of stuff.

And so just trying to get our guts right, all that. But then me touring a ton now, I hated coming home from like four shows in a row, as we usually do the weekends, then go home for like two days and be with the family. And I hated after that fourth show. I've just always felt like death. And it'd take me two days to, like, feel like I was somewhat, you know, normal again.

And so he'll be traveling with me on the road. And so it changed my time. diet, nutrition, got me doing pretty consistent workouts. And it's hard for me to lose fat, but I can, like, put muscle on. Yeah. I'm the same way. Yeah. Got that buffy bill.

If I put muscle on, it makes the fat I have look a little better. I still have the electric eel, though, or the inner tube just around the ways. Me too. It's just, like, impossible to get rid of, unless you eat kale. And the older you get, the harder it gets. But I'm 46, and I'm on meal delivery, and it works. Yeah. I've definitely like changed over the last year my body composition.

Uh-huh. Put on more muscle and lost more fat. But I just had to submit myself to that. Like, okay, I do meal delivery and I have one or two meals a week that are off the plan. And that's it. Right, right. And I found a good flow with it. I'm curious if you kind of, I feel like for the first time of my life,

I'm actually wanting to be more like big than that slender rock. roll the people I looked up to, you know, just that. Skinny rocker thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm also very curious if at one point we were both rocking girls jeans. I remember when I got into punk rock, I was like wearing American Eagle girl jeans size four. Okay.

Yeah, I would say I never really could pull the real skinny jeans off, but I always wore like, this is as baggy as I get. Right. Yeah. So this is actually baggy for me. Well, same. These are the baggiest pants I have. They're probably more just like fit it.

Those are great. Are those suede? They are. Wow. You're really finely dressed men. Oh, thank you. I like your boots too. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm trying. Very cool. Thanks. High praise from Joel. But yeah, so early days, tighter the jeans. I'm trying to think how if I did, maybe I once or twice pulled off. Yeah.

The like skinny, skinny, skinny jeans. Right. But for the most. part, I was always wearing a pretty straight-legged, not baggy, but not too tight. Well, no, that's great, because then you can look back at videos and, yeah, and photos and not be like, what the heck was I? But my hair is a different sort. I saw the eyeliner.

The pink cheetah, uh, pink cheetah print. My brother. Yeah. Oh, was it? Okay. My twin brother. I passed by a photo. I was like, God, that's so cool.

I definitely had hair at moments, like, emo hair. And I had eyeliner and stuff Yeah For sure Guy liner I don't do that anymore Yeah

Not that I wouldn't But I don't feel the Captain Jack Sparrow look Yeah I don't need I don't feel the need to do it anymore But I definitely did it Yeah But yeah

I just yeah I wanted to be That twig And now I'm like Yeah I actually kind of enjoy looking like a man Now Yeah you know hopefully

And well strength is directly related to longevity. So I've learned, like, I actually want real strength. So the weightlifting, the benefit is the muscles look better, but also just real strength. Being stronger. Like, when I get new levels of my, like, bench press or whatever different thing I'm doing, because I work with a trainer, I feel really, like, accomplished. Yeah.

You know what I mean? I think we're built that way to, like, conquer, take new mountains. We just bought a farm, and I learned very quickly as I started. doing farm work that I was pretty weak. Still big guy, but just quite weak. Great way to build. Also, though. Yeah, I'm trying to get farm fit. Yeah.

And that's a different kind of fit. And your farm is in South Carolina? It is. Yeah. That's nice. Charleston. What a great city. It's amazing.

I love that city. Yeah. When did you start doing music? Your whole life? Start playing guitar. My dad taught me GCD and E minor when I was 12 or 13. And I don't think YouTube was around quite yet. Took like a few lessons from some dude in town and then kind of took it from there.

And I grew up in the church. So like all I knew were like church songs, which are like the easiest ones to play. And so I learned those, then discovered YouTube and then just like kind of took lessons on there. And actually it was like something tabs. I remember it was like the website to go to to learn all these different songs. Yeah. bought a Creed CD first CD ever bought

and then started learning all those songs I love Creed yeah me too do you still love them I still love him too so we actually funny story

we sound check higher do you ever I have those lyrics tattooed on my thigh oh really can you take me higher on my upper thigh but we

we did that song as a sound check kind of as a joke but kind of like we all love creed you know but like and I'm singing it like it's fun

it's like but it's kind of like it's so fun It's like almost like when you sing an Elvis song. Exactly. It's not, it's Elvis. You're not disrespecting Elvis. No.

It's fun to like, there's something fun about his voice the way he sings. But also I like Creed. One of my main playlist is like 90s, all my favorite songs, Allison Chains, Creed, all these different bands. And like there's probably like four Creed songs on the playlist. I love him. I just went back and listened to like the entire like weathered record and was just like, have you met him?

songs I just got to meet Scott I texted it okay so here the story is we're doing that song as a sound check and then my tattoo artist uh got a hold of a video that someone posted and then he drew up a tattoo sheet yeah you're covered running out of space yeah and uh and on our tattoo sheet we do every tour that like we bless the crew and the band guys and just pay for all their tattoos and stuff and so we get these little ones that are like attached to the tour the songs and stuff right and he put can you take me higher on there and i was like and it's actually there's some other wild details of the story but like so i was like somebody has to get that and nobody volunteered to tribute so i'm like being the leader i had to go first and so i got that so then at the last night of

tour they did a tour prank on me so i'm out there and i'm in between two songs and it's deeply spiritual and heavy and it's like you know it's rock and roll but it's like it's like heavy we're singing out some real stuff. Yeah. And so I'm like, you know, this next song, it's, you know, it's really talking, and I hear in my ears, let's go there. And I was like, oh, what? Let's go.

And then all of a sudden, they go, jun, jun, jun, jun, jun, jun, jun, jun, and then I'm trying to give people context, right? So I'm like, so I go, if you watch the clip, it's the highest viewed Instagram video, like 18 million on my Instagram right now. And so I'm trying to give them context. So I'm like, oh, it's the, guys, it's a last night of tour. And there's a tour print. Go there. Because I had to make the downbeat of it. I bet people lost their mind.

Lost their mind. Yeah. And Scott was one of the first people to comment on there. Hadn't met. Amazing. Like, I shot him a DM maybe a few years ago. But he reached out. And so a few weeks later, I'm in Nashville. And so somebody we had DM'd and I got his number. And I was like, hey, any chance you want to grab breakfast would just love to pick your brain and learn from you. Does he live in Nashville? Uh-huh. Awesome. So he was like, I can't meet you where you're at, but you can come over for breakfast. And so went over, and we talked for probably an hour or two, and it was like absolutely incredible. Sweetest guy, just so much wisdom. Most musicians are sweet, man.

Yeah. That's what I find. Emotional. Yeah. I'm tender. We all started from a sweet place, I think. And the only reason I think people get anything other than like what I think most musicians are just want to like be friends and hang out with other bands and make music.

is just the world. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. I feel like all I've ever still wanted was just like a clubhouse with all my bros. Yeah. And for me it was like the way of creating that family, that community was through music.

Yeah. Garage bands that were absolute trash. Yeah. That's what like we, I mean, we started good Charlotte in the garage and it was trashed. And then we just kept trying and trying and trying. And, you know,

it's like 30 years now. It's crazy to think. like, or almost 30 years, 29 years. Wow. So when you started playing, you were playing in the garage, but you were also at, where did your, like, brand of music? I'm careful to categorize music or like, genre-fi it or call it, label it.

That's my whole thing right now. You know? Yeah. But I would say running through all your music, there's spiritual themes through everything, and there's spiritual, religious. but what strikes me is when I listen to it, I don't know. There's a subtleness to it that doesn't feel like it's hard to explain.

I think you're one of the best people doing it making music that you could call religious music. You could call it Christian music. You could call it spiritual music or you could call it rock and roll. All those would work. You could say it's country. You could say it's rock. You could say it's a bunch of things. When you started making the music where you were you.

you, was it one foot in the garage, one foot in church? Like, were you playing in church? Well, first of all, I'll say, you're saying all the things I want to hear because I think that's where I'd love to see people move to, is to not so quickly label something. Yeah. You know, like, I love genres, but, like, I think we also just get so stuck in labeling something and then not allowing, not giving the same artist permission to, like, go this way or that way. And I've just never had. one lane. I think I bought into the lie early that I had to find A sound

and then like which one was most successful with my voice and travel down that road if I was ever going to be something outside of... You're going to make it. You're going to make it. And I've just not ever been able to do that

because one day I'm writing a song and it comes out like we have a song on my new record that's like absolutely straight up rock and roll like I'm yelling you know my face off. And then there's a song that's like super tender country like

make you cry song and then there's a very melodic thing and i guess like i'm a product of the people i've been surrounded by and i've been surrounded by a lot of amazing voices and people with just um different expressions and sonic expressions and i think that because my parents taught me to be a sponge and take the gold from everyone around me that somehow that is even deeply subconsciously i've adopted those things and And almost like an impersonator or whatever, you know, it's like I think I've just tried to develop the skills to be able to do this thing and that thing. And I think ultimately to be able to like to minister to different people groups or different backgrounds and go, okay, this song might not speak to you, but like this one might, this might hit you where you're at. And so I'm thankful for that ability to be able to do that. But I grew up in the church. And when I wasn't playing in church, I was in the garage and I was listening to metal. And so me and my buddies were, you know, doing rock and roll and metal. But what was it like in your house with, um, like secular music? Yeah. Not much of it was allowed. So metal was something

you had to like, no, there was a lot of Christian metal. Okay. Yeah. So luckily, um, bands, well, I have a weird upbringing. So it was like Christian music. Mm-hmm. And then I, my parents let me watch CMT. So I would listen a ton of country music. Okay. It was like a lot of James Taylor. Yeah, exactly. That's right. And then me and my buddies, when we wanted to play music, it was like heavier stuff. And so I was going to shows, especially like in Myrtle Beach and Charleston, there was kind of like a hardcore scene.

So I was going to Under oath, Emery, Norma Jean. I just had Spencer from Underroth on here. Oh, really? Yeah. That's sick. He's cool. You also have one of my favorite people that I've been following PDUSA. Oh, he's so funny.

He's good. Dude, he's so good. His music is actually really good. I really hope like... Because he's comedy, you don't think his music, you go, is it going to be joky? Oh my gosh. That one song, it's like, is it bad, bad, bad or bad, I can't remember exactly what it is. I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, godly, it's, I feel like he has the ability to, like, kind of pioneer and do something fresh and new. Yeah, what was I talking about, though? Yeah, I just grew up on, like, a lot of heavy stuff. I was just, like, getting a sense of, like, where your musical self-developed. Because you have a real, you have a real, like, powerful,

uh, unique personality in your music. Like you can feel when you listen to all your records, I went through all, I went through everything. Yeah. And I like to go from record one all the way. I like to go on the journey of some,

I'd like imagine an artist developing. Yeah. Over every record. Cause we're always going to like reach for more. Yeah. And like you have a real like, I can hear you in it. Like it's you.

Yeah. And sometimes I think with, and I'm not, again, I don't want to like, I don't want to make these statements that sound like I'm summing it all up because I'm not. But sometimes I feel like in like Christian music. Yeah. There's like personality is lost. And I appreciate that they're probably more maybe mission driven by what they want to do with their music.

But part of what makes pop music. so why people follow pop stars and rock stars is personality. Yeah, you listen to a track and you're like, I trust that that's actually what they went through. I can hear them like, and I think from my perspective, I grew up in the church. I wasn't allowed to listen to music growing up. I went the probably opposite of you.

I wouldn't say I make devil music, but I would say that I like went the opposite way. I was very angry about it and I found my way. But all that being said, it was an exercise. an artistic expression of like my first 18 years of life. It sounds to me like your parents are still together. And they're like, they're my heroes. They're like a functional family unit. Yeah. Right. And they have these strong values, right? And faith has always been a big part of your life. Yeah. And it sounds to me like they function really well. Yeah. Faith was a big part of our life,

but my parents didn't function. And so we were kind of told one thing while they did other things. And then it all fell apart. And I think our experience with it was disappointment. Yeah, right. Not to say I don't have faith because I do. Actually, I think a great challenge of finding your faith is going through all that and finding your way to. I've got this line and this song with Jelly Roll that. I love that song.

Faith isn't proven like gold till it's been through the fire. Yeah, exactly. You know, like what is faith if you've not felt the fire? Yeah. And it's refined over and over again. I think that testimony is probably the most powerful tool to reaching somebody. And like, because when you're singing your testimony, I think it breeds with that vulnerability, it breeds trust with people.

I think maybe in our space, that's where when the song doesn't sound real, but then you've got a lot of people listening that I have looking at church and Christian music through a lens of disappointment. They're like, why would I? Why would I bother? Yeah. Like, that's not me. I can't trust that, you know?

But if you really read the Bible, there are some crazy freaking stories that like these people that even God used went through fire after fire after fire. And man, I just trying to write songs like that one with jelly. The whole reason why I even reached out to him is because I know he had a testimony. He was not ashamed to share about. Yeah, he's got such a good story. And this song is like, it is a song of faith, but it's wrapped up in wrestle, you know. It's brutally honest. Like I don't know, like, when's the last time you went to church and heard a song that opens up with like, I don't always feel it.

Yeah. But dang, that's when I need it the most. Yeah. And when he heard that, he was like, dude, this sounds like a song for sinners like me. That's what he called it. Yeah. This is a song for sinners, man. This ain't Christians.

Like, this is like a real Christians. Like a real, like, and for people like me. I think J-R-R-R-R-L is the best kind of Christian there is. Because he's so honest. And the truth is, like, he's no different than the rest of us. Christians, it's just that he's really honest about where he doesn't have it all together, where he's still figuring it out, you know? And I love, he's transforming. I love like we, I'd asked them, or in this interview he had been asked, he was like, what do you wish you had

heard from the church years and years ago that might have kept you a little closer? And he's like, man, I just would have, or what do you wish you could have gotten? He's like, I just wish they would have given me more patience, more grace and more patience to like, I haven't had a Saul to Paul moment where it happened in a flash and I'm a completely different person. He's like, I've got the biggest part right. I believe Jesus is the son of God, raised from the dead, but man, there's some other things I'm still trying to figure out. I think that honesty is really beautiful because we're all in a journey and we all have our sin. We all have our stuff that we're trying to figure out, you know? And the truth is it's like it's not even about this like destination.

No. And so that's why I'm trying to write songs that like meet people on the journey because the journey is the prize like he's the prize the relationship just like your relationship with your spouse it's like there is no final destination point it's the journey it's like how do we experience the best relationship today yeah like how can i serve you how can i love you best today and then when tomorrow comes i'm asking the same question how do i sacrifice today and i think a lot of people are looking at chris music and go i can't i can't get there yeah i got and it's like no it feels it feels unattainable i think The holiness, the perfection, it feels out of reach for people, I think. What I always say is I think that my faith in God is also, and I don't share a lot about

my faith in God, I would say sometimes I do, but it's very personal, but I also feel like I want to be articulate and I want to be respectful of everyone listening and that wherever they are on their own path. They might not have any. They might not be, uh, and I don't look at them any different than I look at myself. Right. But I think transforming ourselves as part of like trying to live up to our highest potential. We were created to be these like amazing. And then you see people accomplish amazing things. And that's proof of what our potential is. Yeah. And that we are all individually supposed to reach for our highest potential and not be conflicted about wanting to and wanting to achieve and wanting more out of life, you know? I think if you were to ask that person that has

achieved this amazing thing, though, like what's really going on day to day? You'd be like, oh my gosh. Yeah. We're in the same exact place. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think even that is like, I do believe we were made to be amazing people and do incredible things. But the moment, I think most of life is the valley with these little mountaintop experiences along the way. Right. And we look at Instagram or we look at someone else's life. And we go mountain top. The peak, the peak.

Yeah, I agree with you. Dude, if you were to ask him, be like, what was yesterday? Like, or honestly, the moment you had that, you hit that peak, I look. love to ask that person, what did the next day look like? Because I've had some peaks and I've tried to be honest about it. The very next day or the very next week, I'm fighting for my life mentally. I had a full on my first panic attack, never experienced anxiety or depression ever in my life until my first tour. Yeah. Came home, went to Disney World, was supposed to be heaven. I went straight to hell. I was like, this is the worst place.

I have no time to decompress with my wife and, and, like, explain what just happened and all these dreams coming true. And I went to a really, really dark place because I don't think we were meant to stay on that mountain. But my body was going, where's the adrenaline? But my, like, where is that? Like, how do I keep up this mountaintop feeling? And you can't. You can't. Like, even very, like, physiologically, is that the right word?

I don't know. I'm from South Carolina, so I don't know if that's the way. If physiological sounds right. You can't do that. You literally get adrenaline fatigue. And then when you do that, you like, it attacks your mental and your emotional management system. And so I'd have full on, like, freak out. Yeah, your nervous system gets shot. Right. I mean, I have the same experience in growing up, you know, poor and kind of left out and then having success in music and getting all the things. Yeah.

So money, fame, all you're special, all you're important, or you're this or you're that. And at first, you're just kind of told everything's great. Like you just, all of it, you're supposed to want it all and you're supposed to. And you think it's like you hit a lottery. You're like, whoa, how's this happening to me? And you, you know, if anything, you're just like, you want to be grateful and you don't want to mess it up and you want to make everyone happy and you want to thank everyone and you want be but then it's twisted because on the other side of like eight nine 10 years of that ride we but we got

off we were like we're done we need and we we didn't break up we've been in the same guys in the band since high school but we were like this is not good yeah i'm never going to have a real family a real life yeah a real purpose a real i'm not going to if if if i'm just on this perpetual hamster wheel of chasing hits and fame and tours and this and that, they get less and less meaning. Yeah. Because you realize that I don't want to say it's worthless. I appreciate everything we did as a band and that we're still doing. But you find a balance of like putting it all in perspective and go like, no, no, that's my job. I go and I do it and I love it and I give my all. And we met my wife we've been together 18 or 19 years.

We wouldn't still be together. Yeah. If I didn't choose this. Yes. Over that. Yep. Yeah. And so you have this.

Right. I think it's like about redefining success. I had to do that after that moment. I had to realize and I'm still doing it. The moment I get another number one or something like that. You'll still be doing it ever all the way. You'll always be doing it. And I'm going home and we have a two year old.

So really when this was happening, I was like, Lord, how do I celebrate? a number one. How do I celebrate changing a diaper as much as getting a number one and being like, this is what I was made for. Like, and honestly, if I can say, like, I think God honors the way first and foremost I treat my family because it's my first ministry, way more than like how I'm treating fans or treating my career. It's like, this is what I've been entrusted with. This comes first. And I've recently even made some shifts to where there. There's a reason why we tour only on the weekends is so I can be with my family. We, we, very early on, I've figured out, like, about nine days away is, like, our absolute limit.

That's such a good limit to figure out. Yeah. You've got to know your limits. It's not worth it, dude. When the wife's freaking out at home. We did the same thing. We were like, okay. And it actually gets less the longer you together.

You think it'll go. I thought the same thing. It gets less. Yeah. Like now our limit is like three days. Three days. We're like, whoa. Yeah, you really start to feel like. So how do we make these decisions together? Yeah. And because we always say when work comes for her, she works too. Right. We both have careers and we have our kids, but they're teenagers now. So we have some more time than we did. But we always say like, is it going to make us more married or less married? Yeah. And that's always how we measure whatever we choose. That's so good. And we say no to a lot of stuff. Yeah. But that's the hardest part. It's worth it though. I can say for 18 years in,

Man, proud of you. That's insane. It's awesome. Biggest accomplishment on my life, I think, is my wife and kids. And then it makes everything else feel like icing. But I do believe, like, people, I would say men, we have to work. But people, like, we have to work. We have to do something with our hands. Right.

You know? Yeah. And I've found, like, we kind of made a sacrifice this year where I came off of a tour. I was pretty burnout. And my wife had been telling me, she's like, you need time off. like we need time off and i really sought the lord on it i was like okay god are you telling me i need to like chill out you know and i call brittany like my second holy spirit you know she's like hey i really she has high discernment she's like i really think you need to press pause yeah she's got like

like good like intuition 100% right she's tapped in she knows me better than i know myself and so i was like okay we're going to make the hard decision to take eight months off before the tour i'd set up for the next year, which is coming up this summer. And then I've got my next tour, King of Hearts tour, with my record coming out. And I had to make this record to during that eight months. And man, what I saw happen because I chose my family is opportunities came that I could not have said yes to had I done another tour. The right ones. The right ones. That's amazing, man. Like hard fought hallelujah with jelly roll wouldn't have existed. Isn't that funny how that works? Crazy. Like, honestly, me sitting here today, this probably wouldn't have happened. Like, literally, I'd be.

like on tour right now. I was stoked to you're coming. I'm honored, man. Yeah. This is so cool. I think you're this like new breed. Let's go. You know what I mean?

Like things evolve and they come and they do it better and then they do it better and they learn. And they, especially in Christian music, there needs to be a modern example of a real person living a real life, making real music that is holding your values as a process. person, your faith is your highest value. Right. Right. And you hold that up like with a banner. Yeah. That's my third son's name, by the way. Oh, is it? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great name. Yeah, it's a cool name. I feel like it deserves to be seen in a modern world where you're a real person living a real life sharing a perspective that needs to be shared and not categorized and dismissed by anyone for being labeled.

Whereas, like, actually, more people will relate to you. More people have faith than they don't. They're just trying to figure out their own path. And they've also been beat up by the world and given bad examples and given unrealistic kind of examples versus real people sharing real lives, real stories, through music. And then you're not saying you can only come to my show. Oh, heck, no.

You know what I mean? You're saying. Honestly, dude, if I can be honest, it's great if Christians show up. Yeah. It's great. Like, I want people who are struggling, who are addicted to something, who are their marriages on the rocks, like. That's what I feel.

That's who I want to show up because that's who I was made to reach. That's who Jesus came for. It's not for the, like, I'm, I love, I'm going to use a really churchy word that makes me cringe, but like edifying the saints, right? Yeah. Okay, there's people for that. and there's music for that. Even some of my songs can do that.

But like someone recently just said to me, and I feel like it's become my mission statement, and it will always be, but especially right now, I feel like it's what God's doing. And he said, he looked to me, he goes, Brandon, stay in the church, but never stop moving towards the lost.

Like, that's who needs this music. Like, that's who needs your story. That's who needs. And that's who I want to show up these shows. Everyone, literally everyone. And it might be like, I'm not trying to convert anybody overnight. Like, people have been coming to these shows and going, you know what? If this is the Jesus, you're, like, this is real and the way you're communicating it and not this religion, but this relationship, I can do that.

I want that. This guy who created me wants the best for me. And yeah, it might say, say no to some things, but yes to these things. But like, I can do that. I'm trying to minister to my own brother. And that's what I feel I'm called to do. And so I'm just trying to be super vulnerable and honest. I just think you're being authentic.

That's what I see is I just go, on this show, I want authenticity. I want people to come and share. So we can actually get a sense of this person. Right. Right? Because we're real people. Yeah. And I could sell you on an idea of me, but then you sit with me.

We either can talk or we can't. Yeah, right. Right. And in entertainment, it can. it's lost. I think. Yeah. The entertainers become these untouchable, weird kind of symbols, and they're not. They're people. One of my dreams would be that, like, I wouldn't be the guy that the world, now that's not the end goal that all the world would know who I am, not just my subgenre. But I pray that, like, because of who I'm surrounding myself with, and, like, one of my goals is to help develop

10 more brandons. Right. And the next, like, 10, 20, 30 years. Right. You know? And then maybe they do something that I wasn't able to do, you know? Would you say that your, you said that your church is a big church? Yeah. Like a large church.

How many people would you say is there? Oh gosh. We have 14 campuses, but like the main campus that I'm, I usually am there of like Easter and Christmas right now because I'm traveling a ton. Right. You know, it seats 2,600 people in the auditorium for one service. It's a big service. Yeah.

Would you say that that foundationally, like, helped your music when you started? Absolutely. Were you playing at church and stuff? Yeah, I grew up playing in church. That's, I just thought the kid playing, like, in the band was, like, super cool. I'm like, I want to be like Will. And he played, like, one of, you know, he played a B.C. Rich. Like, the real jaggedy one of whatever.

So, like, my first guitar ever bought was Ibanez Destroyer. Yeah. But I'm playing, like, worship songs. Yeah. On an Ivan's Destroyer, it just looks hilarious. is. And so, you know, I just innocently just got into it because I'm like, that kid's cool. That kid's cool. And then like, maybe I could get a girlfriend if I play guitar, you know? Yeah. That's kind of how I landed my wife. So it worked out. But me too. Then I got forced into singing.

They needed somebody to start singing. And you're like, oh, I have a good voice. No, I was like, heck no, I'm not doing that. First time I ever sang, I was like, I'm never doing this again. Right. Felt completely naked. Yeah, it's scary. Not doing it ever again. Kind of still how I feel every time I get up to sing. I have to sing in a few hours and I'm like shaking in my boots. Where are you singing? American Idol.

Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Oh, that's big. I can say that, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, me and Jelly are performing. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. I love Jelly Roll. He's the best. I've talked about him like 50 times on this podcast. Yeah. He hasn't been on yet. He's coming, though. Oh, good.

Good. One way or another. God, he's just a teddy bear. He's awesome. He's such a sweetheart. And, yeah, he's a large. largely like what we're talking about. He's like an example of that of being just super honest.

But yeah, I grew up and I would just say that gave me like the message in which I like, I want to write songs that are transformational to people, not just entertainment, but like could actually create an encounter. And that's what my, that's what King of Hearts tour will be about. It's like, I'm not just here to entertain you. Like we're setting the stage for like a real encounter, a real experience to, to happen. And I think that's what this generation too, like those younger than me are looking for. They're looking for real.

They want something experiential. I think so. They want something transformational. Like, don't just entertain me. Like, give me something real that's going to help my life. And I don't think there's anything more powerful or more true than the truths than we find in the Bible. And I just get the honor of wrapping those up in a creative way through a song that is trusted. Like, I could read you some scriptures.

And I believe it would transform your life if you really took a. to heart. But I think a sneaky way to do that for a generation that might be uninterested is to put it to a melody and say it in a way that like Brandon would regurgitate that truth. And then you're like, holy crap, like that feels real to me. You know? Yeah. And I think that your job, and this is just what I think. I think at the end of the game, the personal relationship with someone and God is between the two with them and that your job is i can never know what your relationship is really like right you can never know the inside because the real relationship is actually what happens at 3 a.m. and and when they're alone and when you're alone yeah and the only thing you can do is share and comfort and support and

the next time you're having a freak out at 3 a.m maybe you're like you heard of you're like brandon told me to trust this man yeah or that song hits them the right way exactly gives them hope and it keeps them walking forward in their life one more day. And you don't know the journey someone's on, but you hope that they find their way. I actually think we all just want each other to actually grow and be okay. And I actually feel like that 95% of us, I think there are probably about 5% of people that are just pure evil.

Is that bad to say? Might be a low percentage. Maybe. But I actually think it's probably something like 5% that are just psychopaths. Yeah. Right? And I don't know why. I'm not even judging them.

I'm saying like maybe they were like got, maybe that horrible. But man, they're probably just like bad eggs, just bad apples. But the rest of people, I actually think everybody wants everyone to be okay. And everybody's looking for hope.

Everybody's looking for encouragement. Everybody's looking for something that makes me look up and go up and go towards. Yeah. up, not down. And so I want to be a generative, energetic person who lifts people up. When I walk in a room, people smile, not frown. Or like, people are happy to see me. You know, like, that's the kind of person I want to be. Yeah. And I want other people listening. That's why I do the show. I want them to listen and understand how they deserve happiness. They deserve to love themselves. They deserve to feel special. I really believe that. I do not.

like it when I hear people go, all that, everybody gets a trophy. That's not what I'm saying. Everybody is actually special and they have something to offer, but we have to search. And that's why feeling is important because we get called with feeling. We get called by a feeling to go this way. We were actually designed with these alarms where if there's bad, we run away. And if there's good, we're like, so we have to listen to a feeling and get called and go towards. And that's, I think, how we find our way in life. When you, you know, you could say the Holy Spirit for you. You could say, I hear, I pray. I was going to ask you when you were like, I was asking God, well, how does God talk to you? Yeah, very, it's not an audible voice. Honestly, I believe I have the Holy Spirit like within me. There's a

real relationship with the unseen, essentially, presence of God. It's why Jesus left. He gave us the Holy Spirit. that would he's called the comforter he's called like it's like our friend right and for me it's a lot of time it is that feeling like you're talking about it's that gut feeling it's like but it's like beyond me right it's like it's that thing it's like that was not my thought or that's not my feeling because actually i want to do this but i know that's going to hurt me but i feel like something unique holy spirit is nudging me largely comes in the form of a nudge it's the same nudge it's the same nudge that goes, whoa, whoa, hold on, don't walk past that person. You need to stop. Right. Don't go down that alley.

Exactly. He's a protector. I think he also highlights things and goes, hey, you need to walk up to that person and just go, you know what? Keep fighting. You're like, the person who made you desperately loves you and is obsessed with you. Do not give up on life. And then you get, you find out later like that person was about to commit suicide. It's like those kind of things, right? it's that discernment and for me that's like everything and it can be as simple as like god am i supposed to do this event or am i supposed to stay home and i don't always get it right i think that's a part of the relationship is like i'm learning his voice and sometimes i'm like yo did i eat something weird or is that actually god like telling me something's up here a discernment

with people that person doesn't actually have your best interest they're trying to sneak in your back pocket you know like it's it's it's all of this thing that's That's why I'm like, this isn't like a God splits the sky. The relationship with Holy Spirit doesn't look like. God splits the sky and it's so incredibly obvious. I think God only ever gives you about 80% so that you actually have to take a leap of faith. And then you learn from that experience. I don't know if I've ever, there's very few moments that I'm like, I know 100% that God's saying this.

Right, right. Yeah. And I think that's what keeps you also like in that relationship is like, I need to know what to do. I don't want to take another step without your direction. Because this could go very bad, very quickly. Yeah. Like, I have so many people, man, on top of the world.

And then one bad move. Dude, I'm subject to the same thing. That's why I need God daily. Like, how do you manage, how do you reconcile the fame part of your job? I'd say the best way I deal with fame is having a, group of people at home that know me best that they are proud of me but not impressed by me. They've known 15 year old Brandon. They know that 34 year old Brandon, what I'm experiencing now isn't solely because of my gift and what I've done myself. They're like, dude, God is using

him in incredible ways, but like he couldn't have done any of that without God. And that's what I believe too. And I think it's, it's recognizing the balance of like, this is a God thing. But also, like, I'm not going to be falsely humble and say that I, I haven't worked incredibly hard to get here, you know? And that you don't enjoy a show where everyone's singing along and it's a big, like, event. Yeah. It feels good. Very few people get to experience what I'm doing now. And so I just, I, like, I treat it with, like, as much gratitude as I possibly can. I think gratitude puts you back in a really healthy mind space. You know, whether that's you're on the mountaintop or you're in the deepest valley,

like if you can find some things just to be grateful for, like it kind of recenters me. And I think coming home and like I said earlier, like celebrating playing football in the yard with my kids just like I got another number one or 15,000 people showed up to my show, like rewiring. Football, the kids is, that's the win. It's epic. And that's what makes you the winner, I think. 100%.

I would rather be known for the way. And I say this even though like it would be really hard if it was like, if I was only known for being an amazing husband and father, I'm saying this going, I want to want to be known more for being an incredible father and husband. I feel the same way. That would be enough. I feel the same way. But I have to put this desire for more kind of on the altar every day and be like, if you give me more, thank you, Lord. Like, that's awesome.

Another show, another song, another successful something. But keep my heart in a place where I put being the man you've called me to be as the top, like this relationship with you as the top. And I don't always get that right. But I think for me, when people throw glory on you, like they're not trying to, but it kind of is what it is. Yeah, right.

Like, I'm not going to be the guy, though, that's like, you're so incredible and da-da-da-da. And I'm like, all glory to God. I just don't know if that's believable, though. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love that. And in my heart, that is, but I just be like, you know what, thank you.

Thank you. I tried to my best. Like, God knows my heart. He knows at this point in time. I know. He knows that I know a certain way. Yeah. That's the truth.

And I don't owe it to anybody to say the perfect Christian way to respond to someone giving you praise. See, that's what I think. I always kind of meditate on the truth of things is the truth of things, whether I say this or I say that. My question to myself is how do I really feel? Because I want to try and get to a good place always with the truth. Right.

versus what I say to people. Yeah. And like, I'm very careful to present myself in any way, like, that I'm some perfect husband or role model, even though I try really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I feel like the honest truth about me is that I'm trying my best. Like, that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. I'm trying to be a good dad.

I don't even know if I get it all right. I'm just trying. No. I even tell my kids, I'm like, they're teenagers, so I'm like, I don't know, I'm trying. Yeah. But I don't know if I got it all right. But you know what? That's what therapy's for.

Man, one of the most beautiful things I got to experience was me and my dad sat down and did a podcast. Oh, that's cool. I don't know if we have ever sat down for five hours, five episodes, and just talked about our relationship. He's an amazing leader. He does incredible things across the country with different organizations. Is he like a pastor? Yeah, he was. Okay.

And I guess you could say he still is, but he worked. works with organizations, churches, businesses, all across America, teaching leadership. Oh, that's cool. But we kind of dove back into our relationship. And one of the episodes were like, talk to me about your childhood. What was your perspective? And then dad, like, what was your perspective? And mine was like, my childhood was freaking awesome.

Like, I grew up in the church, which my dad ran. So, like, did Friday nights was like, family fun night. I got made fun of as a P.K. But I'm like, you don't know what I get to do on Friday nights. We put a movie on the big screen. The baptismal was a jacuzzi, so we turned that on. We skateboarded around the auditorium. Oh, y'all were sneaking into the baptism jacuzzi.

Yeah, I got baptized every Friday. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. No, like, um. Do they do anything to the water to make it like more like, is there any process to make the water like whole? More holy? Yeah. No, dog's water. It's symbolism.

I didn't know. I didn't know. No, it's simpleism. Okay. It's just water. Okay. It's just water. at my church. I don't know what other people do. I mean, there's probably some chlorine in there,

so there's some also extra symbolism of like, you are getting clean, dog. But yeah, I had an incredible upbringing. And so I'm basically just saying everything was awesome. Right. I don't remember my dad, every yelling at me. I don't remember. And that's my story. I know it's not many, like, but I was very blessed. And then I get to hear his side of the story. And he's like, oh my gosh, I remember just failing over and over and yelling at you. And I, you know, drove me insane at this point and I remember losing my temper here. I'm like, really? He's like, oh man, I would think, you know, every week just like, am I, am I failing my kids? Am I, I'm like, that's probably most of this. Like, what was the worst trouble you got in? I got taken home in a cop car

one night because I broke into a neighborhood pooled at a slide. That happens. And, and my buddy, like, busted his chin open. Like, I think his contacts came out. He slipped on a slide. There's blood everywhere or whatever. We end up sleeping in a car and cop knocks on the window and I was like 16 or something like that. So I got taken on the cop car and we were dad's a pastor and you show up at the front door. That'll scare you enough though. Yeah. Yeah. Do the cop car. I think that's the and then I got oh and then I got in trouble for peeing in public once. Oh wow. I mean but peeing in public as long as you were trying no one was around but it was outside right but you were trying to find a good spot to pee. Yeah. You didn't just pee. No.

No, no, no. It was like, oh, that, like, corner over there looks pretty good. It was in the marsh. It was along the water, and the cop just happened to pull up while I was zipping up. That's not fair. Yeah, it's not. I'm searching for something. Yeah. That doesn't seem fair. Yeah. My dad was a man with a lot of faith. That's how I kind of learned about God. But he also, he had two sides. On one hand, he was trying to be honest, and he had a lot of faith. And he really was. That was a real side of him. On the other hand, he was like, a raging alcoholic and, you know, came from a rough place and had all kinds of things he was up against. And I always saw him struggle with the two. Yeah, like the angel and the demon on each shoulder.

Yeah, in the end, I feel like he worked it out. I didn't get to have a conversation with him before he passed. But sorry, that's okay. We had a great relationship. We ended up, we always had a complicated relationship, but we ended up with a great relationship. in the last 10 years. It's awesome. And like man to man, really good relationship. And I learned a lot in that 10 years about myself. I learned how much stuff I got from him that I didn't ever want to admit because I was

always so angry at him. And it was really nice. But I actually think he had one of the most honest relationships with God. And in the end, I think he like, I could just tell he was at peace with it. It reminds me the scripture, I don't know where it's at, but someone asks or says, I believe, but Lord, help my unbelief. Yeah. And I think that's like where a lot of us are. It's like, I believe, but man, help my unbelief.

And I think it's okay. I think he understands that we hold both in the same breath. I think, yeah, I think people don't realize that if you don't learn to love yourself, you don't believe God loves you. Hmm. And you've got to love, I actually think God wants us to love ourselves as well. I think God wants

us to love the creation of like what, if you believe, right, if you're a believer in that, God created you, then you need to love the creation. Yeah. Like you need to take care of it, love it, hold it preciously. Like you hold yourself

as precious as you would your kid. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Don't just throw it away. and I think that is what I saw what I think I saw that struggle with my dad was he was always struggling to love himself like I'm good I'm I'm special enough I'm important enough that someone could love me

you know what I mean? Yeah. And then I found like the same struggle in my early life was a lot of the work I spent on the last 15 years my life was just getting a relationship with myself. Yeah. Where I would take care of myself.

Yeah. you know yeah yeah i think a lot of people could say i love god but they've never allowed god to love them which i think is point like that's a like that's step one to like loving yourself is letting god love you if he's the one that made us one of the most powerful exercises i ever did is definitely emotional and like dudes hang with me because it's like not something that feels comfortable to do okay but I literally had somebody kind of leave me in this thing and it just took out a sheet of paper and he's like I want you to ask God why he loves you what he thinks about you and why he likes you and I'm like first minute or two and then like whatever comes to mind is what he's saying yeah

okay I was like tell me okay so I'm having a conversation very like incredible therapy but like with the one that made you and probably the most important therapy and and And so I just sat there and I was like, Lord, like, why do you love me? And not just love me, but like, why do you like me? What do you like about me? What do you say about me? You know? And I started like hearing some things.

That jawline. I think it was actually that. What did you say? That jawline. That jawline. I'm still waiting on my beard to come in. So you got a good beard. I have some tension with God on that.

It's tough. I would take that, dude. It's so patchy. Like it's peach fuzz. I think actually I kind of gave it away, but I remember being like, God, what do you love me? And I feel like one of the first things he said, he was like, I don't just love you. I like you. And then he started to like just tell me other things. And there was nothing like incredibly like it was just a lot of like, like I love your sense of humor. I love your, I love that you tend to see the kid that sits at like the end of the table that no one else notices like your compassion. the way you love to encourage people, blah, blah, blah, but then, like, probably some more personal things, too, of just, uh, that were deep insecurities of mine. And, um, it was incredibly healing and that kind of started to make me love myself more and appreciate, you know, even my, what I looked at as flaws and insecurities and started to appreciate, okay,

God made me this way. That's amazing. So like, how do I love other people through, that, you know? And because it's hard to love people with a fraction of yourself if you only love a fraction of yourself. Yeah, it's hard to love people. But if I'm confident and I'm secure, man, like, it's easy. It's easy. It flows out of you, you know? I feel like my original position and my set point is always like I like most people. I really do. I don't have a problem with most people. Yeah, right. I really don't. I find myself when I meet people that like them. You're very loving person, you could tell. Very embracing.

I just like people. Yeah. And I like to kind of, and I think that's a quality you get, you were made to have. And I think my wife really affected me because she is the most. Yeah. She's from another planet. She doesn't judge one person. She has no take.

Right. She doesn't have a position. Yeah. Like a strong position on anything. She's literally the sweetest, funniest. And the world has been so hard on her. Right. And the character of her in the world is so different from the person that is like raising my kids.

It's not hard as a husband. Yeah, because you want to go out and fight everybody that makes like, and most people are like, well, that's what you get for being a rich kid of a famous person. And you're like, well, is it? Why does it have to be that way? She's just born in the world and found herself. Yeah, did she choose her life? She was adopted. And she's got a very interesting life that you.

She didn't choose, but she's lived it really well. She's lived it with a lot of grace, and she's when you spend time with her and you partner, we've been partners now going through the world together. There's no one else that I could think of that has more love for all things and all people and doesn't see anything. She's extremely special. The world gets to see this one little aspect of her that is almost, like where she hides. Her beauty, her comedy, the way she moves through the world is almost like

that's a costume she puts on to survive the world. But when you experience the person in real life, she's amazing. Yeah. She's just this like graceful, angelic, loving, sweet, funny, great mother, great, we have dogs and cats and chickens and she just, she loves things. Same as my wife. We have a million animals, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. And she made me more, I think. Yeah.

Like put my guard down, put my dukes down. Yeah. And like, stop fighting the world. You know, I had a, I think the earliest part of my life early on made me angry, defensive, more likely to suspect versus accept. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then meeting her, it feels like that was what I needed to like fully develop.

Yeah. Right. To what I'm, who I am. am today. That's the beauty of marriage is like, gosh, where I'm weak, my wife is strong, where she's weak. I think maybe I have a little bit of strength. But what's your favorite thing about your wife? Or gosh, I would have to say like just her heart for like wanting justice and wanting and just extreme compassion for people. And I would say she's very similar to your wife and that she loves everyone. I would say maybe not quite everyone. She has the hardest time with people.

that are being fake or hurting people. Or hurting people wouldn't be the person to slow down. And like that drives her absolutely insane. Like how in the world? And she's such a tender heart. Yeah. Which is why I think she might love animals more than people. She's jokingly asked me.

She's like, do you think I love animals more than people? And I'm like, no, I just think there's a really beautiful thing about you that like you have that tendency to just really, really love animals because you have that feeling You want to shepherd, you want to take care of, you want to nurture. And they're pure. Animals are pure. They're innocent. They don't have a, but also I will say like my wife is similar to yours.

Like if someone's bad, I know it because my wife goes, whoa, no, that person does bad energy. Why does the wife always have better discernment? Yeah. That's why I jokingly call her my second Holy Spirit because I'm like, if Britney's telling me something's up, like I know something's up. Yeah. You know, she rarely ever, if ever, is she kind of wrong about a situation or a person? And it might not be that that person's bad. It might just be like, yo, they're operating out of a weird place right now, you know?

And so I'm really thankful for that because I'm kind of, I can kind of get into the place of just everyone's welcome and like, who am I to like push anyone away, especially being somebody that now has influence? Yeah, you don't want to deny anyone. It's been really, really hard to, like, narrow in my friend group. Right. You have to. I've almost rebuked that whole thing of, like, no, your circle needs to get tighter. I'm like, no, it doesn't. I can handle it.

And then I get, like, I start taking on everyone else's problems and feelings and all that. And you don't want to get, you don't want everyone to feel like they can chime in because you're bored of who you get your advice from has to be people that you respect, trust, admire, they got to have some stuff you don't have more than ever. Yeah. And so you want your board of directors, the people that you get your information from or that you consult with and go, hey, what do you think the move is here? I got to trust them with my life. Yeah. And there's rings. I think there's rings. Yeah. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. There's the outer circle, the outer outer, the outer, outer, and it goes out, out, out, out, out. And some people move in and out. But I do think

that like in life period, everyone should have a trusted source of people who they know want the best for them, that aren't afraid of their success, believe in them, critical, but that will tell you the truth. Yeah. And that you don't always have to agree, but we can tell each other. Yeah. This is what I think. Yeah.

And you know that I'm just coming from an honest place and I'm telling you what I think. And then you have that information and you can go forward. and me and my brother and our little like the group of people that we are wives I would say the four of us are like this yeah right and we consult across all these things and then we have our close friends we could go around on something and disagree and end up either where we started or to a place where I'm like you know what man I actually don't care about this as much as you do I'm gonna like trust your gut yeah you know and like you've end up with these like yeah it's a real thing you got to have, I think, an inner circle. Yeah, for sure. But, I mean, your wife being number one, I think. Gotta be. She sets, my wife is so good.

Like, I going, eh, is that? Or, yeah. Yeah. You can do that. Yeah. So, yeah. So you got the new record. Yeah.

Tour. New record, tour. What else are you excited about for this next chapter? Oh, man. Probably, this next few years. Probably the unknown. The past few months have been filled with so many, like, Like, gosh, I didn't see that coming.

That was not on my bingo card, you know. And it's been, it's been wild. I think I'm most excited about relationships and just some really, really cool people that I've just met. Or I know I'm going to get the opportunity to meet and collaborate with and write with or just to have relationship with and learn from. And kind of dipping my toes in the country space. It's been wildly surprising how many, I don't say this like a braggy way, but like going to the country radio kind of experience and sharing this song, I ran into so many people that like knew who I was. And then I realized how there's a very fine line between like faith-based music and country music. And I just grew up on so much of it.

It was like really cool to know, like I got to collaborate with Rascal Flats. Like I grew up on their music. and Lainey Wilson, who I look up to a ton, who has an incredible faith, but doing incredible things, like, connected with her. I love Lany Wilson. She's amazing. She was on the show. I saw it.

It made me so far. I love her. She's so cool. And, like, we ran up to each other, and it was like, we said, like, the same thing to each other. I was like, I feel like you're my sister. I've never met. She's like, I feel like you're my brother. That's how I felt.

My brother. And she's so funny, man. She's so good. And she's so good. And she was so sweet. And so we're trying to link up and whatever, just be friends, but maybe write some songs and stuff. And I would say there's a handful of those kind of people

where I just am excited to be friends. And again, just glean from people that are a little further along the road than me that I can learn from and make sure I stay doing this really well. And hopefully I can deposit some things as well and create stuff that's going to change people's lives, you know, gives them hope to go get through another day. And, but I'm really excited about the tour because, um, a gal named Franie Cash is coming out. And she's just an incredible artist that I have, I believe has the potential to absolutely blow up.

Similarly to what you said about me, just very much pioneering a new era of like, okay, this doesn't sound like what Christian music did, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. She's incredible. Pat Barrett, who's one of the funniest people I've ever met my life. Another guy the world needs to know about. Incredible songwriter. it's going to be an incredible experience because I have amazing people that are coming out with me. So even if you don't like me,

you should come out, hear them. But it's going to be incredible because it's not your grandmama's Christian concert, although grandmamas are coming out everywhere, dude. Grandmas are awesome, bro. I did this song that's like, I want to show you, but grandmas are a necessity. And I'm really surprised how many grandmas love to rock.

Yeah, they do. They really do. I had a set of grands, grandmas and grandpas at one of my shows, not too long ago. And they were sitting through the whole show. And then I get into my most rock and roll song that I thought would like send them out the room.

And that was the one song they stood up for. That was the one. They love this song. Yeah. So it's an experience. I believe it's a life-changing experience or has the potential to be. And then yeah,

this record, it's filled with, I don't know, 16, 18, 19, 20 songs. The regular record. The record that comes out in two days, you will hear, 16 songs and then maybe a few days later it'll move to like 19 or 20 or something like that. Yeah, we got a deluxe coming out.

That's great. And it's like I said, there's a song for everybody. Even if you're into like pop, rap, there's literally something on there for every single person, country, rock and roll, really just beautiful. It'll make you want to rock out, maybe make you cry. And so I'm really pumped on it and had an amazing team, amazing producers. work on it. So I'm proud of it. Oh, you should be.

Yeah. And I think it creates a, it communicates a message that is what we've been talking about. I named it King of Hearts because, and that's a song on the record that's about the thief next to Christ on the cross. Scum of the earth, you could say, you know. And yet Jesus looks over at him and he's like, today you'll be with me in paradise. He's known as the king of the universe, king of king of creation. We largely look at him as this like God up there looking down, maybe with a finger pointed

down, but I don't think any of those are as important as him being king of hearts. That's what he's after. Yeah. Is our heart. That's cool. And doesn't matter how dirty, how, like the bridge is like, is like king of the lost, king of the lowly, king of the poor, king of the broken, king of the gone too fars, king of the critic, king of the misfit. Like, king of the brand new star. He's like, hearts, king of hearts. And that's what I want to communicate to people is he might not exactly be, for some of you, this God that you were taught that is like looking at you to be perfect or measure up or whatever. I think he's a God just wants to be your friend, your father, help you through life, have a real relationship. If you believe in him and trust him, he can do incredible things in your life. And that's what I hope this record does

for people is, it helps them realize like how loved they are. I'll tell you what, after sitting with you, which I'm very, I love doing this show because I get to sit with so many cool people.

Yeah, but jealous. What I, what strikes me is you're just being yourself and you don't mince words. You say what you think, you say, you're literally saying what you want to say.

And I think that that is why you're going to continue to succeed in the world because we need people to tell us. us what they think and what they feel and what they know and what they believe and not mince words and beat around the bush. Yeah.

We're all so tired of people beating around the bush of what they think. Right. And what they believe. I think that's the most powerful thing that you can do is continue to be yourself, say what you think and what you believe and what you feel and keep pouring that into your music and just keep going into the world and don't hesitate. Yeah. But I feel that now.

Like, you don't hesitate. I hesitate all the time. I have a very hard time articulating sometimes what I believe or what I think or how I feel. And when I sit with someone that knows what they think and knows what they believe and doesn't beat around the bush, says it to you, it's powerful. And I think that's why you're going to continue to succeed is you've just got to be yourself at all costs. Don't worry about any of it.

Yeah. And on all sides, right? I think it's powerful to make music that can cross over boundaries. People are always going to put boundaries around us. For sure. So you say, oh, you're a Christian artist or you're this or you're that. Don't listen to anyone. Just keep doing, and don't try to please anyone.

Just keep doing what you believe. And I think you'll continue to break through any limit that. But I think that's where you're at. Thank you. You're living proof that that's what you're doing. Yeah. You're big shows collaborating with artists across all these different areas that, like, you just feel. You're like, oh, I want to collaborate with Lany Wilson.

Great. I want to work with jelly roll. Who knows who you're going to work with. But as long as – You don't hit me up. As long as you stay true, right? Yeah, that's the thing. Like, I'm not going to waver on the truth, but, like, hopefully I'll stay in a place where I'm going to do it authentically and go,

dude, I'm the first person to tell you. I do not have it all together. but I'm trying and I just want to go along this journey with some awesome people and help people and man thank you for taking a moment to like preach to me like I needed to hear that like well yeah because like you said you don't hesitate I don't think I hesitate to tell you the way I feel and what I believe but like with these opportunities I'm getting I have that I have a moment where I'm going I hesitate and go gosh can I do this Lord like am I good enough am I blah blah like I'm about to go do something that like actually everything that I do I do it afraid I do it afraid so I'm not like

I'm just like every other person and that like I think that's healthy fear though I think it's the healthy fear of riding a big wave it's like a surfer that respects the wave he's he's yeah yeah yeah if we're surfing the wave and it's a big one we have to respect what's at stake yeah the higher we get when we're surfing that wave the or the faster it goes or whatever it is yeah on the higher mountain you can climb to see well i just did that one i wonder if i could do that one well i'm gonna try yeah and then you get up there and you look down and you're like whoa so i think that's healthy yeah it's great thanks thank you but i love what you're doing thanks and i just think you just got to keep being yourself yes sir and um i can't wait to watch this record uh play out for you thank you

hopefully maybe like come to a show or something heck yeah you're welcome anytime I'm going to on the stage, dude. We'll do some freaking good Charlotte. It would be amazing. I've been listening to it

like bringing it back, dude. And it was like, we listened to our, our whole way here. I'm like, gosh, these songs ripped,

dude. Back in the day. So good. Our new songs out and our records coming in the fall. So come on. Yeah,

check out our records, y'all. Yeah. Dude, that's so cool. Thanks, Brandon. Thank you for having me on. So incredibly honored.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I'm better for it. Thanks, Tim. Thank you. for listening to Artist Friendly. We really appreciate it.

If you like the show, you can also follow us on Spotify. You can follow us on Instagram at Artists. Friendly. And you can watch us on YouTube and Veeps. Leave comments. I always read them. See you next time.

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