Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Brent Smith of Shinedown - Part 1 (Rerun)

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is bringing you an encore episode of his conversation with Brent Smith of ⁠Shinedown⁠. For the past couple of decades, Shinedown have been relentless in their mission, channeling pain, addiction, and the power to overcome into seven studio albums and countless shows. During the pandemic, they cracked the mainstream, subverting their hard-rock roots with the viral piano ballad “A Symptom of Being Human” and ⁠inviting Jelly Roll onstage⁠ for “Simple Man” at Blue Ridge Rock Fest in 2021. As Shinedown prepare for a busy year, Smith connected with Madden about his diverse musical influences, the journey of building the band’s 20-plus-year career, and their highly anticipated headlining tour with Bush and Beartooth. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up? I'm Joel Madden, and this is artist-friendly. On this episode, I'm talking to the lead singer of the multi-platinum rock band Shinedown, Brent Smith. Let's go. I'm not smoking on gas. I'm smoking out piff. That's my kind. I don't want no bad times.

I don't want to have bad. So I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee. So to watch Nashville in the last decade, been interesting. I grew up in the 90s when I was in high school. So, like, 1991 to 1996. Yeah. Yeah, so like when I got a car, I was either on the weekends, I was either in Atlanta or I was in Nashville. Right.

So it's just, it's- That's where it was happening. It's remarkable to see, like, what Nashville has done in like a decade. It's amazing. And it's just continuously, there's a running joke in Nashville where the state bird is the crane. Right. Because there's just so many cranes. Yeah, everything's just like, you know, they're just building out. But, no, like Nashville's, I know why a lot of people started to move there.

It definitely has a very unique vibe. That makes a... I didn't know you were from Tennessee. I formed the band in Florida, but I was born and raised in Knoxville, Tennessee. Well, Florida's not too far. Not really, no. Why'd you go to Florida? I mean, it was kind of a little bit Shakespearean because I got signed to Atlantic Records

with a band from Knoxville, dropped after nine months, re-signed by the A&R, which was a gentleman by the name of Steve. Robertson, he went by Steve O in the industry, gave me a development deal, and it led me to Florida. Limp biscuit. Limp biscuit, Leonard Skinnerd, you know, Yellow Card. Oh, right. Yeah, Susan Dideski, Derek Trucks. I always think a limp biscuit. I love limp biscuit, by the way. They definitely, you know, they're coming back with a resurgence, definitely. That's kind of been happening, though. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't know you're from Tennessee, which makes sense because I hear a lot of, and I'm from Maryland, which,

I don't know if you know a lot about Maryland. Probably not. Some. Some. But I grew up all my life with a lot of country music. Okay. And then when I was a teenager, I obviously rebel against everything around me and go into like the opposite and make like punk, pop punk garage rock. Yeah.

And but I've always had a, an affinity to southern like rock. Yeah. And country music. So I love country music. Yeah. And to this day. And I've always heard a nice, like, country, southern rock in your music. Yeah, I think that it evolved, you know, over time.

It's interesting because the band, I think even more so now, there have been comments that were kind of chameleons. You know, we are this rock band, but I've always played in a very, very big sandbox when it comes to music. I have a pretty vast palette. But, you know, just being from Tennessee, that southern draw kind of comes out. There, yeah.

Some of the modern aspects of what we do, like in the last two records, you know, because there's certain people that are of the mindset of the shine down that is now is not the shine down of like the first two records. But there's an evolution in that. Like I can't make the same record over and over again and I do my best, or we, I should say, we do our best not to write the same song twice. Right. But that Southern draw is something that is just a part of me.

It's just who you are. Yeah. Like it only takes me about 15 minutes going into Knoxville because my parents still live there. start talking. I sat there's a there's a draw like there's definitely a Knoxville accent to there's like a southern aspect of that because it's a college town you know uh university of Tennessee Tennessee balls but so like there's you know there's a lot of transplants to you know what I mean but like when you kind of enter Knoxville all of a sudden you start like bleeding orange and white yes really like it just kind of takes over but there's this real southern line of communication it's kind of like this

slow, it's endearing in a lot of ways. It's great. It's like in Maryland we have, have you ever heard the Tidewater accent? No. Oh, it's, what is this? It's terrible. Oh, God. But it's so great. Okay. And if you grew up in Maryland, you hear words as a draw. Okay. So, but it's not, it's a bit, it's so it is Southern in a way. Anybody from Maryland that's listening would know exactly what I'm talking about. Okay. Because we all have an aunt that talks like. like with a heavy Maryland accent or an uncle with a heavy Maryland accent where they say words like home, bone, boat, worder, Danair, hon, as. Now is Maryland, like, do you consider that north? So that's the thing is like it's one of those states that's the southern part of the state.

actually back in like the what was it the civil war it was divided right the mason dixon line you know they say the mason dixon line like that actually runs through maryland and a couple other states i think okay so so maryland there's southern maryland so there's like a whole part of the state that is like would consider itself like a southern state so if i say sweet tea to you do you know what i mean of course okay yeah because that mason dixon line sometimes people get that like if You're past it or forward. It depends on if you understand, like, what sweet tea is, which is where when you stir it, the spoon should be able to stand up.

Yeah. You know, and then other times people are like, what do you mean sweet tea? It's like, well, you boil the sugar into the steep. Yeah. Yeah. Some people go like, what the hell? And then when they taste it for the first time. It's sugar water.

It's sugar. 100%. Mom made tea. It was just sugar in a big mason jar. Yeah, with brown, you know, food color. Brown, like, I think that's tea because it's just sugar. That draw happens in Knoxville, too, just to give you an example. Like, my mom cannot say wash.

Like, she cannot say, like, I'm going to go wash your clothes or I'm going to go wash my clothes. She has to say, warsh. Warsh. Worse. Yeah. So it's a very, everyone in Maryland, like, we laugh about it, but we also love it. Right. And, like, we understand it in a way that's, like, it's endearing.

And it's embarrassing if you're in the real world and you're like, I remember when I had little things that I had to work on, like, words that I would say, I would sneak out. Okay. And I had this from when I was a kid. Right. Because we were kind of like a little bit, a little hayseed. We were down in the country. Yeah.

Like real kind of far down there. And so, and it was Maryland. Like it was like every, there's crabbers everywhere. There's water everywhere. So my wife, though, will always catch little things, especially if we go home and visit. She'd call you out on it. She'd be like, what did you say?

Did she find it like, did she find it like cute, though? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She likes it. It's just funny. Or is she just looking at you? Like, what did you just say? No, no, she likes it.

Like, what's happening? Yeah. And she definitely will meet some Maryland folks and be like, what, his accent is crazy. Like, I can't understand totally what a lot of, from. Nicole is originally from Oakland. Okay. Born in Oakland. And then moved down here at a young age and grew up in Beverly Hills.

Cool. Beverly Hills. So most of her life in Beverly Hills. That's got to be interesting growing up in Beverly Hills. Yeah. I always asked that. Yeah. And you live in Beverly Hills.

Yeah. I think we're all not so different than we think we are, even if you could say, well, they grew up rich and I grew up poor. Absolutely. You're growing up with a different set of problems, and we could argue like, yeah, but those are better problems. I'm like, I don't know if they are better problems. Yeah, I think it depends.

I mean, I grew up with no money. You know, my mom, you know, worked for a, you know, pretty big corporation, you know, in the banking system. My dad was a teacher for 40 years. Yeah. Yeah. They worked hard. And they didn't make a lot. They didn't.

That's kind of like the average. Like mine too. Like my parents worked really hard. Didn't make a lot. We didn't have much. Yeah. But I mean, in all reality, but what we did have, what we were rich in was like love and affection and respect. And, you know, I was raised in a lot of ways by really, my dad is such a huge part of my life. But, you know, two strongest women in my life were my granny and my mom, which is my mom's mother.

you know so the the work ethic was always instilled at a super young age like i like there was when i was 13 in the state of tennessee you had to write a letter to the governor like the parent you know and and and the child you know but if you wrote a letter to the to the governor and went through the office and this and that and the other you can go to work at 13 as long as you had your parents permission right like as soon as i could swing a hammer or you know bad groceries or whatever i wanted to make my own money so the work ethic was always instilled That's funny, isn't it? Because I was the same way.

I got a job at 14 and worked probably 40 hours a week from the first... What did you do? What was your first job? First official job. So before we could get jobs at 14, we were working on our own. We sold candy at school, which was actually not such a joke. Like we made a lot of money. I would say so.

Like we made hundreds of dollars a week selling candy. And then we got caught and we got expelled. As you do. caught a couple times and then it was a whole thing we got back in school we were it was fine but but it was the first time i'd ever had money did you have to pay somebody off of candy no they took it was really not cool like if you'd think like if someone's being entrepreneurial you'd like you'd like encourage it yeah you'd be like let's let's like formalize this and make it a way for you to do it right and there was just no having it and especially like kind of like poor kids selling candy

like you think what do you want to do sell drugs exactly you know i don't know if we even knew how to but candy was like such a quick turnover. We were just going every week. We'd go to the, we'd go to this like store that had like bulk candy and we'd buy like jawbreakers, Jolly Ranchers, this, that, and we'd have like a different variety every week and we'd just like, kill it.

Then we got, stop that, we were mowing grass and washing cars. Yeah, that's, that's, doing that will humble you. Yeah. Like the grass mowing, the car washing, any kind of like manual labor. For nothing. For nothing.

They were like, I'll give you five bucks, ten bucks, like max back then. So then when we were 14, you'd get a job. You could get a minimum wage job. We worked at a pizza place. And he definitely got his money worth out of us for $4.25 an hour. Yeah. Just grind us. My thing, too, was like I turned 16.

And like back in the day, I, like, so I worked in the back of the house in restaurants. I've worked at the front of the house. Yeah, same. But like I started in the front of the house like at 16. I somehow was able to obtain an ABC license at 16 to be able to say. sell alcohol. That's great. You know, so I was like, you know, this was my sophomore year, I think, in regards to, yeah, I would have been sophomore year. But man, like my parents on, you know, Friday, Saturday, and not all the time on Sundays, but like I worked at a

pizzeria too. It was called Best Italian was the name of the place. And I'm 16 years old, hanging out in a college town. But on a Friday and Saturday night, you know, I could pull 500 bucks if I worked hard. Yeah. You know, so 16 years old back in the day, you know, in the 90s. You know, I could make like a thousand bucks in a weekend sometimes. Yeah. And then I just spent it on music and like music equipment.

Yeah, that's kind of like, we started Good Charlotte when we were 16. We worked jobs. I went from the pizza place to like I worked at Food Lion. I was a bag boy and then a cashier. And I worked at Golden Corral. We're very similar like the timeline. Like I did the same thing. Yeah.

In the 90s. Yeah. Very similar. Totally. Totally. I grew up on alternative rock radio. Like Allison Chains, I listened to the radio. College radio too.

Yeah, college radio. And then that's how we started our band. We just listened to the radio. We didn't have access to like even cable TV until we were older. Like growing up, we never had cable. And like, so we'd be at our friend's house watching MTV if we got to watch MTV. My parents blocked it in our house, but my granny only lived two streets over and she didn't care. So I just go to her house and watch it.

That's funny. Yeah, my mom was super afraid of she's very religious. So she was afraid of us getting too much secular music in our minds. But we would find it by Rolling Stone magazines or by this and we were just like. Remember a metal edge back in the day? That was like my favorite magazine. Oh, you like metal edge? I just love it.

I loved it. How wild it was. I go back to that. Like, everything is like, it's too easy now. Like, back in the day, and I'm not trying to, like, you know, age us or anything. But, like, back in the day, man, you couldn't, it wasn't at your fingertips. You had to go hunt for it. Yeah.

You know, and there was a lot of discovery. Yeah, that's dope, dude. Yeah. That's one of our magazines. Oh, really? Yeah. That's awesome, man. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah, dude. I love Metal Edge. Yeah. So I loved music magazines. I would buy them and just discover any band. What were the other? ones there was like hit parader there was a hip parator revolver ap still around alternative press alternative press yeah

um what are some of the other ones i'm like i try to think of some of the obscure ones that were circus circus yeah like hit parader circus were like yeah um i'm trying to think like guitar world i like that too yeah guitar world's still there yeah that's still there yeah but i just think back and then when you go and you find out like bootlegs and different things of that nature and like these different especially coming out of europe in the UK all these different magazines like Kerrang and all that which is still around which i love too there's rock sound coring enemy those were like the ones in the uk yeah metal hammers in the uk what is the because i know that you've said that like for for the band that australia is like your second home yeah like what is the publication in australia like for music um australia

does like Australian Rolling Stone. That's the big one. There's not a lot of big music publications in Australia. They have some websites that do pretty well there but like Australian Rolling Stone is probably like the big music. You guys probably do good in Australia.

No, the thing is about that is we've been working on that for like years it seems like because we've only been one time and it was like 14 years ago. Really? Yeah, because right now honestly what I'm trying to do is the band that I'm in is a bit of a I mean some of the people in the industry have called it, we're kind of like a unicorn because there's a lot of like

United States-based stuff that we do, you know, getting a bit more familiar in Canada. UK is probably the second market for us and what have you, Europe, but like there's all these places that I really, really want the band to go to that people are sometimes surprised that we've never really been to. Like, we've only been to South America once, and it was only for two festival shows, and then we've only been to Australia at one time, never been to India, been to Asia, like once. And so 2026 moving into next year, like my goal is to play all seven continents.

To just be like, hey, man, like we've been doing this for a minute. I really, we've never even played Mexico. Really? Yeah, it's very, it's very strange. It's harder to find tours than you would think. And then also, too, it's just the financial side of things. It's hard to go. People don't realize how expensive it is to move the show.

I mean, what do they want you to do? Like, you can't just show up with four of you. I need you guys to go do a tour in Australia and take us with you. Come with us. With, we would, in a heartbeat, we'd love it. Done. Dude, let's go, man. That would be dope.

I would do that. I lose my mind. Because we were definitely, we're definitely going to tour Australia, not this year, but probably next year. I'd love for you to keep us in mind. We're warming it up this year. We're going to do like 10 shows. That's awesome. Well, that's the other thing, too.

Like, in Australia, people talk about, like, there's only so many places you can play, but at the same time, five. Five? Yeah. Okay. You do. Because you can't really bus anywhere. It's so, the, the landmass is so.

You gotta fly everywhere. You fly. You truck everything and then you fly. You would do Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth. Got it. 5. Yeah. You could do other.

Do you know the other ones that are like in the, is there anywhere like in the bush to play? Like cities that you wouldn't know about. Okay. Have you ever done Tasmania? No. Okay. Do you want to do Tasmania? I would do it just to see Tasmania.

So would I. Yeah. Because it's cool. Australia is fucking dope. But like I would say we have an affinity personally for shows outside of America. Tell me where. Everywhere. Everywhere.

Like we do great in South America. Okay. We'll go with you there too. In Mexico. Like Mexico's great. We do great in Europe. We do, we love, like, we just love it there. And the shows are great.

It's not that we don't love America. We love America. I think being that we didn't get to travel, like, growing up, like, I didn't get on a plane until I was 19. Really? So. I didn't get on a plane until I was 21. But there you go.

Yeah. I also didn't listen to the Beatles' White record until I was 24, so. Probably same. Yeah. And I love the Beatles, but didn't really, I wasn't a music, a fictional, I was older. Yeah. I didn't want to be told what I was supposed to like from someone else's

opinion. So I think that I appreciated it more as I got older. Some of the records that are like ingrained in not only pop culture, but just musical history. Like these are the greatest records ever. And I'm like, well, let me, I don't know. I'll be the judge of that. Yeah, let me like, let me at least have my opinion. Then you hear it. And then you're like, I understand why that is. I agree. Totally. I think no one wants to admit it. I will admit it wholeheartedly. Like, I was at a chip on my shoulder for a long time on, like, what music

I was supposed to listen to or what music was great. I think also, we came out at a young age and the music critics were so mean to us that we became very anti, like, if that's what you guys... Yeah, but your fan base is extraordinary. Our fan base is amazing. And then as I got

older, I started to really appreciate why people like these certain bands and these, especially the older bands. Yeah. But even like some of the bands that I may not have appreciated when I was, you know, in my early 20s. I can just listen to a record now with like no emotional attachment to like, am I supposed to like it or not and make my own judgment on it, which I don't know if I could always do it from being honest. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think about it also too. Like when I was, my dad completely changed my life when I was 14, 15 years

old because like I was heavily influenced in like British punk rock, thrash metal, you know, really, really heavy stuff when I was like 14, 15 years old. Like, I had a whole. like half of, and this was like back in the day, but like when I was 14, I just tried to grab everything that I could from like, like, G.G. Allen. Yeah. Just because I was like, yeah, like the wilder it was the better. You just went like the, the, I'm going to find the wildest one. Yeah, I'm going to find the wildest stuff. But then like, you know, Operation Ivy, the exploited. Yeah. Oh my God. The dwarves, you know, Fugazi, all that stuff, you know. I remember my dad coming into my room one day and it was kind of silly out, like, almost like out of a movie, you know, music's blasting. I'm just,

doing my thing. My dad's like, Brent, Brent, Brent. And I'm like, what? And he's like, he's like, I don't understand why these people are so mad. Like talking about the music. Even like on the female tip, too, man, like I'm a huge Wendy O. Williams fan. Yeah. You know, and but he was just like this angst. And so he said, I got you something. I do want you to listen to something different. And I just didn't want to hear it. And so he gave me this tape. And he's like, well, you just put this in at some point in time. I'm like, whatever. So it leaves the room. I throw it in the corner.

A couple weeks go by. I'm, like, cleaning stuff up in my room, and I find this tape that my dad gave me. And it was an anthology of a guy named Otis Redding. Oh, my God. My dad loved Otis Redding. That's how I heard Otis Redding. So I put it in,

and the only thing that I can equate this to is when, and the first song I ever heard was Love Man. Yeah. And it was literally like, it was like tasting chocolate cake for the first time. Yeah. I didn't even realize, like, that the voice could truly be used as an instrument because Otis Redding got me to Sam Cook,

which got me to, you know, Marvin Gay and Al Green, and then Percy Sledge, and then Percy Sledge got me to Ella Fitzgerald, Billy Holiday, Nina Simone. And it just opened up this different world of like R&B and Motown and rhythm and blues and learning like the core of like rock and roll. Then I started to find out about the Jackson Five. And then oddly enough, the Jackson Five kind of led me to Led Zeppelin, which led me to Black Sabbath, and then it just started growing from there. But I was so centered in heavy guitars, big drums, scream, because I was an angsty kid.

But all of a sudden I started to figure out, oh, wait a minute, you could use your voice as an actual instrument. I'mena. And like my music, my hair changed with me and has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda, Protection, contra the encrespaid, 99%

less of rotura, and punas abjuredas, back control. New potion 9 of Sebastian professional, the secreto professional, of who not are the tendencies, but of who they're not they're trying. Yeah, and it's interesting.

That makes sense to me. Also, there's, it's soul. Totally. There's soul music. So I don't even put that music in a category of something that I even critique. Like, it's hard to explain, but like my dad loved that.

music too. So everything you just named I grew up on when my dad was around. Then he left when I was little older from zero to 10. All I heard was soul. Right. And that to me is weird. It's like I don't even think about it. But foundationally, I would say that's probably like the musical foundation of my life was something like gospel and soul. My parents went to church. There was a lot of church music. and my dad listened to soul music R&B, you know, Stevie Wonder, all the Motown. It's in our DNA. Yeah. Like that music is really, it's embedded in like just human beings in general.

It's hard to explain because it doesn't even, like I still listen to that music sometimes. It's weird. Like I put it on in the background at home. Like I'll put it on in the house. It's not the same experience as listening to a record. Like when I listen to a band, like, oh, so they just made a new record. Right. So I put it on or all in the car or whatever.

I listen to it. And it's like a more critical listening experience for me. Yeah. Like I'm listening to the words. I'm listening to how did they do that? What do they do? So I would say it's a critical listening. And you might be listening to something that like you're a cat, like the category or the

genre is a little bit more what you do. Right. Like I listen to what are they doing? Dude. Yeah. I listen to architects when I work out. and I just listen to them or I listen to Bad Omen's when I drive. Right.

And I listen to the records and I listen to the songs, but with the soul music, with Motown, with Sam Cook, Otis Redding, Stevie Wonder. It's hard to explain. Like I don't,

yeah, Marvin Gay, Lionel Richie. I don't listen to that music with any critical, it's more like a soothing. It's almost like a comfort. Yeah. You know,

it's like a part of like. Like a blanket almost. You just feel secure like when it's, on. It's less listening, more feeling. Like it is exactly what you said. It's like putting a blanket on when you're cold. Yeah. It's like when you're on your couch, it's cold. Your wife is like, honey, will you get me that blanket? It's something like that. It's like I put it on maybe when I don't, and I've never thought about this. This is the first time I've ever talked about it. It's like, you don't even know when you turn it on. You just know like very often, I must feel that the house

needs something. Yeah. And I turn it on and it's the same playlist with the same 30 artists, same 50 songs, it just goes on a loop, and it's like a blanket. That era too. Yeah. And that era also, like, I think about Henry Rollins talking about Billy Holiday. There's a really cool interview with him about jazz and soul where Henry Rollins says, when I put on Billy Holiday, I feel like she's just singing to me. Yeah.

And there's this kind of dynamic in that that I think like jazz. And then, you know, modern day and God rest her soul, like the more. current of this, like, again, somebody that used their voice of an instrument, and unfortunately, we lost her way too soon, was Amy Winehouse. Oh, yeah. Like, for the short time she was here, it's astonishing, you know, how transformative that voice was and how it just was so compelling to a lot of people. Those voices don't come along that. They don't. They're very rare. Chris Cornell, same thing, you know. When he passed away, everybody was like, you know, no one sings like you anymore, which is true. Yeah, that's funny. We have very similar backgrounds.

Yeah. This is the first time we've met one another, but like, again, I'm a huge fan. So, you know, and I think that I've just always tried to, in what we do and, and I think the era that we came up in and where we are now, I'm always trying to kind of take a step back. And I think that bands, especially, we're talking about kind of the bands that, you know, when you're in a certain genre or a certain style, the last couple of years, I've felt like everybody is in so much competition with each other. And I'm like, I'd rather work with you. than be competitive. Same. With you. Like, the thing is for me is, like, I actually genuine, I try to genuinely champion other band success when I see it. And, like, let people know if they don't know who they are, like, yo, should you check this band out?

And, you know, if I have a platform to open up some minds and some ears, I want to do that. And people do it for us, too. But I do see here recently, like, there is becoming a bit more of a camaraderie with that, especially because the touring industry and what have you, everyone is touring. Like, it's not, you can't put the genie back in the box. No. Like, you know, it's everybody is out there. And there's like nine billion people on the planet, too. So, I mean, you see a lot more stadium tours. You see a lot more, like, larger festivals and what have you. But at the same time, I think that we should all be working together. And the other side of that, too, is, you know, the band that I'm in, and I'm sure you're the same way. Like, you go into a writing session, you know, when you're making a record or what have you. I don't think any of us walk in there and write the songs because we want a trophy. I think we're writing it because we have something to say.

And as long as you don't lose that mentality, I think you're going to be good because the audience is the boss. Yeah. We've always said that. We got one boss. It's everyone in the audience. And they know if you're not being authentic.

I always say this to bands. I'm on the older side of a rock and roll career, right? I'm not saying I'm old. But this generation, though, man, you're current also. Because this new, like my son's 17 and like for the longest time. And I kept him away from a lot of this. Like I never made it about me from the, day he was born. Yeah, me too. But his friends in the recent like year or two have been like,

yo lyric, my son's name is Lyric. And they're like, yo, lyric, your dad's stuff is pretty good, man. Yeah. You know, like he's not admitting it to me. Yeah. You know, but, um, but the unique thing about that is now he's kind of like branched out where like he's, he wasn't really into music and now he's into system of a down. Now he's into like Pantera. Now he's into like, you know, Nirvana. Yeah. Like his generation, it's actually kind of the 90s era stuff that they're really into early 2000s. But the cool thing about the way the music industry is now is you have these younger generations that, you know, Limbiscuit, for example, remember when Biscuit got all that kind of heat on them because of certain things and it was like oversaturated or however you want to look at it. Fred was, you know, man, maybe because he didn't have a choice, but he just kind of left the scene for a minute. Yeah.

You know what I mean? But now it's like they're being propelled back up. Same thing with Creed, man. And I know people have a lot of opinions about Creed and what have you. Back in 2010. I fucking love Creed. I do too. Like, but I mean, going back to 2010 when they tried to do that kind of reunion,

it was just a little early, I think. And they just finished, I think it was like 64 shows with last year alone. Dude, they were only 100,000 shy of a million tickets. Like every show they did was like sold out. So there's this interesting Renaissance. They have great songs. Yeah. Our conversation continues in part two.