Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Brent Smith of Shinedown - Part 2 (Rerun)

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden is bringing you an encore episode of his conversation with Brent Smith of ⁠⁠Shinedown⁠⁠. For the past couple of decades, Shinedown have been relentless in their mission, channeling pain, addiction, and the power to overcome into seven studio albums and countless shows. During the pandemic, they cracked the mainstream, subverting their hard-rock roots with the viral piano ballad “A Symptom of Being Human” and ⁠⁠inviting Jelly Roll onstage⁠⁠ for “Simple Man” at Blue Ridge Rock Fest in 2021. As Shinedown prepare for a busy year, Smith connected with Madden about his diverse musical influences, the journey of building the band’s 20-plus-year career, and their highly anticipated headlining tour with Bush and Beartooth. ------- Listen to their Artist Friendly conversation on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify.⁠⁠⁠ ------- Follow Artist Friendly! IG: @artist.friendly TikTok: @artist.friendly YouTube: youtube.com/@artist.friendly ------- Host: Joel Madden, @joelmadden Executive Producers: Joel Madden, Benji Madden, Jillian King Producers: Josh Madden, Joey Simmrin, Janice Leary Visual Producer/Editor: Ryan Schaefer Audio Producer/Composer: Nick Gray Music/Theme Composer: Nick Gray Cover Art/Design: Ryan Schaefer Additional Contributors: Anna Zanes, Neville Hardman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And here is part two. Definitely. And everybody fucking loves Limp Biscuit because they have great songs. And everybody likes you guys. Wes is a monster, man. Fred's a genius. Wes is a genius. They were ahead of their time.

Sam, completely underrated bass player. Absolutely. And they're nice guys. They're nice guys. And they're a big fucking rock band. And what do you want from a big rock band? Do you want them to?

be everything to everyone, or do you want them to be themselves? Which means the thing I always tell bands is no one listens to one artist only. Right. Go in their Spotify or their record collection and there's hundreds. Yeah. So just remember that this is a friendly business we're in where we share and we look after each other's fans. If your fan is at a good Charlotte show, am I doing my communal good by talking

shit about your band or that band or that band? No, it doesn't make sense to me because now the band that can't stand the idea that anyone is going to be bigger than them or anyone's going to like anyone else. I think it's just this like defected, like damaged artist that got hurt somewhere and became like some kind of like a broken narcissistic like damaged egomaniac. And so I'm not saying it's okay. And I'm also not saying, I hate the guy. I'm saying like something happened to you where you got fucked up. Because the truth of the matter is is that everyone doesn't just eat at one restaurant. They don't just listen to one band. They don't just read one magazine. No, everybody does everything. So it serves bands to understand that like if we share

whatever that means, then it's better for all of us. Absolutely. And bands get pinned against each other by lots of different things. I think that it's a really, really hard business to be in, this thing that we call the music business. I often will tell people, like there's a younger generation that will ask my opinions at times about this because I've been in the industry for going on 25 years. And what I try to explain to him is this, listen, it has to be the music first and the songs and the message.

But the reality is that it's called the music business for a reason. Business is in the title. As soon as you understand that you're only as good as your last. trick and are you making the label money? Like that's part of it. And then, you know, to serve it differently now, because there's a lot more artists, there's a lot more style, there's a lot more bands. But I also see the younger generation too, like Sabrina Carpenter and Chapel Rohner, everyone like best new artists. Like they've been grinding at it for 10 years. Yeah, they're actually not new. They're not necessarily new. They're young, but they're not necessarily new.

Benson Boone, Ted Swims. Like, you know, there's a very broad way of looking at things. And I think, though, in present day, that what I'll often tell, and I have to kind of remind, you know, people like me and you, too, like myself, I have to remind it. It's like, I tell my son, I'm like, listen, that device, make sure you're in control of the device. The device doesn't need to be in control of you. Yeah. So you have to, because you can use it as a tool for really good things or you can, it could be just a, you know, a messenger of chaos. Yeah, it's the black hole. Yeah.

And so when you have a platform or you have a sounding board or you have, you know, quote unquote, the audience is listening, do you want to build confidence and show camaraderie or are you just trying to pick at someone? Yeah. And what's actually going on with you that you would want to kind of, you know, stab at somebody? So obviously we're all artists and, you know, the cool thing is is that it's funny, man, my son, when he was in elementary school, uh, like career day, all the kids kind of were talking about what their parents did and what have you. I wasn't there, unfortunately, because I was on tour. Yeah. But, like, he's real.

Yeah. And this was videoed, though. Yeah. And he got up and they were like, well, what does your dad do? And he's like, he makes stuff up for a living. Yeah. And I was like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. Because, like, you know, it's like you take it something out of nothing.

We call it staring down the beast. Yeah. You know, so staring down the beast is like a journal that you just bought at Walgreens or whatever, just, you know, and it's empty. Yeah. But you got to fill it up. Same thing with a session or whatever. Right in a song comes from nowhere. Comes from nowhere. But it's also utilizing you that energy around you.

You're being utilized as a vessel because there's something that you're writing down and then you're recording it. And it can mean a certain thing for you. But to the public, it can mean so many different things. And so, you know, we're all really stressed, I think sometimes because we really, really want people to dig what we do. We want the people that are working with us to be proud of what we're doing. Of course. So there's always a constant level of like keeping your mental health in check. Yeah, this is a good opportunity, though, for me, because I want to talk about what you've done.

So to make a living touring is very hard. Yeah. You have to do. You have to make a decision. If there's so many shows or so many tickets. Yeah. At one or the other. Right.

So to do that, to have the number ones you guys have, to still be a band, still be releasing music still fucking achieving radio success tour success fan success you could like say which one's more important me and you would probably argue fans if the fans are happy and they're still coming around and they still like what we're doing and they're still is it growing still is it growing do we feel the energy like do i still want to go on stage yeah but to have achieved all that at a young age, right? Why would I care about what anyone thinks? I care more now than ever. That's interesting. What everybody thinks. Well, why? Because I want to believe that we bring value to people's lives because they bring value to our lives because they're allowing us to be ourselves.

Because you care. Because they care. Yeah. And, you know, look, the thing is, I have to say this, I have had and still have some extraordinary teachers along the way. I've been very, very fortunate, too. We've been with the same management company for over 20 years into good entertainment. Allison Shepard, who's our manager along with Bill McAfee, she's right over there. Bill McGrathie, who's a legend. Love Bill. You know, in the industry.

You know, and Atlantic Records, that what a lot of people don't realize about us is that we've been with the same record label. And I was signed to Atlantic and dropped by Atlantic and then re-signed, and it took me on a three-year journey to create and find what would become Shinedown. So I'm the example of artist development. You know, working on our eighth studio record right now, you have to keep your eyes and your ears open at all times because it evolves and it changes. And, you know, there's a lot of people, you know, with the music industry, it's changed drastically in the last decade, more so. than not. But one of the things early on for us that really helped us was the fact that we had some amazing teachers talked to us about the importance in North America of radio. Yeah. And in streaming and the way that people consume music now, there's a lot of vast majority that can get it

from different places. But I think that's something that's important for anybody that would be watching this or listening to it that wants to be a songwriter or be a musician or be a performer. In North America, and granted, it's a big world, you know, but in the U.S., we just made a decision that we were going to do everything for radio, that we were never going to say no, and that we were going to position ourselves with understanding that there's 50 states. Inside those 50 states, there are multiple cities, and they all have kind of a fundamental thing that's their city. It's their culture. It's who they are. And in America, man, you can have all of these different formats. We're a rare band because we're looked at as a rock band, but we cross genres

because we're played on rock radio, alternative radio, mainstream rock radio, top 40, hot AC, AC, AAA. And so there's a lot of ground you can cover in these cities. And radio was very, very important. And the streaming aspect of things, I think, is part of culture now. And it can obviously get your music out there. But what is it? 140,000 songs, you know, uploaded a day or something. It's noisy. It's really, really noisy. I think it's a million. Probably at this point. But the fundamental thing also, too, for us was we also started out and, man, we just toured with any tour we could get. Right. You know, anywhere we could play. Same. Even if it was for, like, you're only going to get 15 minutes. I'll take it. Yeah, we were the same. Like, you just, you have to understand that there's

work ethic involved in it. I mean, look, I mean, also, I think the biggest thing, like how I look at things now, too, is I really want to look at what is the future for Shinedown internationally. Like, there's always some other thing to get to because it's a big world. But, you know, the number ones and those charts, that means a great, great deal to us because there were a lot of program directors and a lot of people behind the scenes where when we started out, man, there were people that were in journalism and in the record industry,

and I'm just being honest about it, they were like, this band will be lucky to sell five records. Yeah, yeah. And they just did not like us. Yeah, you know. That's not a good feeling. But radio did. Yeah.

And like all of a sudden, it was just like, well, these outlets don't like us and this is kind of the mainstream and this is kind of the, you know, these gatekeepers are, you're either getting in here or you're not. Well, they wouldn't let us in. Right. But radio did.

and then we just decided to like pound the pavement. And that's the thing I'm glad you said it because a lot of people listening don't actually understand what it takes to have successor radio, the work that goes into where likely you had to self-start a lot of the radio because when someone says it's not working

and you're like, well, what can I do? I'm like, well, you can go see them. And you're like, okay, I'll fucking drive. I remember when we had a song, we had put our fourth record out. promotion tour, man. Right. Here we go.

We always did that. But we had a song that we put out, and it was at a time when radio was like, you either do rock or you do pop. You don't. And we were a band that did pop and rock. So we would have a rock song, and then we'd go, we had a song that goes straight to pop. Yeah. And it was a very controversial at the time. Now no one cares.

It's like, it's playlisting. But like at the time, so we had a song that we came on our fourth record, The River with Avenge sevenfold. Yeah. By the way, those guys always say really nice things about you guys. They love you guys. Those guys took us out on their tour when, man, there's not enough time that we have today to just talk about how great they are. How wonderful. Those guys are wonderful people. They're the realest. Yeah. Anybody that's listening. And the most ridiculously awesome fan base on the planet. Like just mad numbers. Sick man, too. Like musician-wise, all the way to just as people. And not afraid to take chances. No, not at all. and don't give a fuck. Yeah.

They just do what they want. If you're listening and you like events sevenfold, Matt was on the show, but they are the real deal. When you meet like people where you're like, God damn, those are good guys. It's always when I meet bands, even sitting here talking to you, and why I do this show is I meet artists and I go, yes, another fucking real person who's just trying their best

and, yes, have achieved. But there's something about staying on the ground and trying to keep doing something that feels like it matters. Yeah. Instead of walking around like maybe like I just know I matter and nothing else matters that. I don't know how to articulate it. I wouldn't even be able to know how to digest that mentality.

Right. I'm always trying to out do what I've already done. Yeah. It's always like day one. It's always like I'm back at work like my pizza's shop job. Here's the thing, man. When you have something that you care about. When you have something that you think is important.

I'll give an example. Like we had a song on our last record, and it was the fourth single off of the record. And I remember going into Atlantic and talking to the Powers at B about the fact that I said, listen, you got to do me a favor. I'm going to take this song called Dead Don't Die, and I'm going to give it to rock radio and make sure that the bases are covered here. But you've got to let me take this song a symptom of being human, and I want to work it at Hot A.C. and then there was a big question mark of like, well, why would you want to do that?

How are we going to do that? You know, and I'm like, you just got to understand. Why would you want to take that song to Hot AC first? And I'm like, because it's the hardest chart to get momentum on. And if I can get momentum there, then I might be able to get momentum at alternative. And if I can get momentum on alternative, I may be able to see if it has a shot on active or the mainstream. And if it has a shot there, I might be able to even get a conversation. started to take it to top 40. I had a vision for this song two years before it began its journey.

The life of that song, we started at Hot AC, it broke the top 15, then we took it to alternative, it broke the top 10. I was told that it would never go on active. It just wasn't going to work on that chart. It spent four weeks at number one, and we took it all the way to number 18 on top 40, and we worked the hell out of it. And we went into these stations, and we met new people, And at the same time, the rock community, and a lot of these guys and girls know who they are, I spoke with them about what we were doing. I told them ahead of time. I said, you've got to understand something.

I have to be able to grow the audience. I can't just put it in one lane. I think there's other people on the planet that will like our music. They're just not aware of us. So please respect us in the dynamic, too, of yes, now you have. may have other stations in your city because they're different formats playing this song, but I want you to play it too. That's going to make people know what your station is about. And you can work with this program director and this program director and you can start to

actually work together. And that's what it's more about, like in that radio world. And again, too, this is a very, for whatever reason, this is a controversial kind of way of looking at things because of streaming. It's like, well, radio doesn't really have, you know, the pool that it once did. yes it does that's somebody that doesn't know what they're talking about yeah and like because they're not going into these cities and grinding it out yeah like i give an example we when you look at the arenas in north america and i know you've probably played a lot of them yeah you played you know arenas in australia and south america like it's a big planet you know big world yep um but like we'll just for the sake Canada the whole nine for the sake of just talking about everything in the

U.S. like the building that's in Iowa, like Des Moines, Iowa, and then Madison Square Garden. Okay. Yes, Madison Square Garden is a bigger market. More people. It's sexy. It's like Madison Square Gardens. When you sell that out, it feels more like an accomplishment. But actually you would argue. But the thing about the Des Moines and the building in Iowa, it's the same capacity. And it's harder to fill. It's harder to fill. So like you got 18,000. in Madison Square Garden, but can you fill 18,000 in Des Moines, Iowa? Because the buildings are both the same size. Yes, and that the accomplishment is Iowa. Yeah. Not, listen, New York, when you do a sold-out show in New York, it's fucking insane. It's harder to get that ticket. The crowd is crazy. But it's a area with 20 million people, right? So it's, I'm not saying it's not hard to sell out Madison and Garden. Yeah, there's a huge accomplishment. Yeah. But when you sell out Iowa, yeah, or when you sell out Indiana. Little Rock, you know. Because the buildings are the same size.

The Kia Forum, same size in Peoria. That's actually like a good Charlotte as like a band. I mean, we love every fucking sold out show is fun. But when you sell out a place that's typically like harder to sell out, Omaha, Nebraska, or, you know, these markets where you, we always took pride in the markets that loved us. Because we did really well in the Midwest. We did really well in the south. We did really well around in like B and C markets.

Yeah. We did well in New York. Well, we love New York. Mm-hmm. We'll play New York anytime. Yeah. But when you get to a place where you're selling out an arena in the middle of the country where number one, people don't have the expendable income as much as, you know, they could just,

there's a lot of factors. A hundred thousand factors. Just population, everything. It means so much. It means something. I can't explain it. It's the same when you go. to South America and or when you go to like hungry or you go to these countries where you're like

holy shit 30,000 people came. Yeah. And you're like. And you're like, that's for us. And they speak a different language and they know every word to every song. So we always found that they're further away from where we were from the more excited we got. That's probably why we toured so much out of the U.S. We love the U.S. I mean, we love America. But we always found like there were so many options here. There were so many tours. So like we would tour the rest of the world.

And like it was like this exciting adventure always. So we spent a lot of time a tour in the world. But to the radio thing. And I think in general what I was thinking about when I asked you, why do you care? It's to say that anyone that is doing anything they care about. out, there's going to be pain because you care so much about what you're doing. And if you don't, you should stop. Like, that's where I'm at my life. I'm not doing it if I don't fucking care. Yeah, a lot of times the stop doesn't mean it's you're stopping forever, but you got to reset.

You got to reset and figure out like, what do I care about? Because I want to be honest. I want to like want people to feel that I'm doing something that I care about and so that they can enjoy it. In my mind, they're not going to enjoy a meal that you don't cook with love. You just throw it on a plate and toss it at them. You know what I mean? So when I hear you talk about your whole career, including radio, including the latest record, including everything you're doing. I mean, we just released two brand new songs like 14 days ago.

So like the cycle starts. But it's the first time everybody's used to us announcing an album. We put two songs out and announced a tour. And everyone's like, where's the album? What are they doing? What are they doing different? And I'm like, exactly, we're going to do something different. Looking at the bigger picture, it can't always be when it's convenient for you. At the same time, it's having enough knowledge and wisdom to know when to stop and reset, which is what you've been doing. So you're actually being pretty smart about it all.

And family does that for you. Yeah. They reset you and you're in a real life with someone who, it's focused on them. So it ain't about my day, what I'm. doing. Right. And then when I do have to go away or work or something, everybody works together and we pitch in and like it's a functional group. But like- And they're cheering you on. Yeah, and they are. And they and and I think a lot like your son, my kids are just kind of discovering what my past was and like what the band even is. Yeah. And they think it's cool. But but- But your dad. Yeah. You know, they keep you grounded. They'll humble you. Your kids will totally humble you. Straight up. They will humble you in every way. But I think that is to be healthy, right? So you've obviously,

whatever you went through in the past with drugs and alcohol, that's not the guy I'm sitting in front of. No. This is amazing. That's success. Yeah, I think so. It's a day, that's a daily thing. Yeah, one day at a time always with everything that's like hard for us. But the one thing that helped me out with that, like, because I don't really talk about my sobriety a lot, you know, but I said a really, you know, good friend of mine wants to tell me, and it just kind of hit me pretty hard. It made sense to me. It was like, listen, if you want me to be real with you,

this other dude in you is trying to kill you. He doesn't want to have a good time with you. He's trying to end you. And if you will figure out a way to control him, it was weird. It was like a light bulb moment for me, and maybe I needed the statement had to be as edgy as it was. I don't even think they realized how they said it to me,

but it did, like, it opened up another part of my brain that I didn't know existed, and they said, you're way more dangerous when you're sober. When you're clear-headed and focused, that's when you're the most dangerous. Absolutely. I tell artists, when I talk to them about drugs, especially because we're around it. We work with bands. There's drugs. It's just weirdly the... Yeah, it's in the DNA. It's just what all of us have had to come to terms with, in some way, shape, or form some

kind of addiction, some kind, right? And most of the time it's drugs, but it can be lots of things. when I talk to someone, I have no judgment. But I'm like, listen, on the other side of your addiction, no one's going to want to fuck with you or hang out with you. So however long it takes you to get to be that guy, I don't know. Maybe if you're lucky 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Do you ever watch, I can't remember the guy's name, the soft white underbelly? Oh, yeah, those interviews.

Basically just goes down to Skid Row and has like all the, like, real people. Dive into it, man, because like if you, you want to know what it's like that's it that guy will show you on that it's not pretty it's gnarly and it and it's not like i'm sitting here criticizing those people that is the result of a life of addiction yeah and that they couldn't get away from yeah and when i tell artists that are at the top of their game that are struggling with addiction that it's like i just want them to get it like I saw people die so many people me too over the last 25 years this generation too I've said it to a you know a couple of people also you know and not to make light out light about it it's not funny but like

in the modern day era anything that's a drug that's in a white powder form now you have to test it to see what the hell it is if you've got to test the drugs that you just bought maybe stop doing drugs maybe don't do drugs you know what I mean because you think that you bought cocaine and it's fentanyl and like and oh well you're dead yeah i mean like just it's probably not a good idea yeah i got stop while you're ahead it's terrible yeah so but that's just the reality i don't have any judgment i just don't think it makes sense to do drugs and i just i've seen too many people lose number one their life number two everything they work for and number three everyone that loves them So it's just for me, anyone that I see sitting in like where you're sitting today where you're like, I'm like, oh, you had a problem?

God damn, good job. Because you do not come across like you've got like you've had to, you know, slay that. I also had to like learn like the other thing too is like back in the day from like 2010 to 2011. I went on a fitness journey that I've been on ever since then, but I lost 70 pounds. Oh wow. I had to learn how to like exercise, eat right. Like fitness just overall, physically and mentally, completely transformed the way I look at the world.

Yeah. Like, so I encourage people that, you know, if you're depressed or things are rough or you're in a bad mood, go workout. Physical first. Go work out. I'm learning that. I'm on a 60-day challenge right now. What are you doing?

Work out every day. Okay. And meal delivery. So I'm only eating what is on my- Once you cut out, I'll tell you right now, man. If you can cut out, you know, you don't have to like eliminate it. all, man, but lower that sodium, lower that sugar, try to eat as farm to table as possible, you know, get 30 minutes of cardio, make sure you stretch every single day. I use a flow state of

mind, which a flow state of mind is like, don't kill yourself six days a week and then rest on Sunday. Like, you don't have to work out for two hours every day, but do something physical for at least 30 minutes a day. And, you know, remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. If you're starting a fitness journey, like don't think that you're going to start working out on Monday and by Sunday you're going to do a Spartan race. You got to like just ease into it. Yeah, because you want to make it a part of your life. And build your capacity. So if you can do five minutes today and you can only do five minutes every day and then it turns into 10 minutes and then it turns into 15 minutes. So I'm on the other

side of like two years of like three. It started two days a week. Last year it bumped up three to four three or four days a week working out with no diet. Then I threw in some diet changes. Now I'm at a place where I'm now going, I feel ready because I want more. So I was like, I'm going to do a 60 day challenge. I'm going to work out five days a week. So Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So I get Wednesdays and Sundays off.

I organize that way. And I'm going to stick to a very tailored eating. I'm Anna Mena. And, like my music, my hair is my rhythm and has to be able to keep my rhythm.

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not are not they're doing a tendentions, a nutritionist? A nutritionist, yeah. Have they talked to you about supplementationation?

Yeah. There's some supplements and some stuff like that. I'll tell you right now, man, there's four, the ones that I've learned. Yeah, tell me. Yeah. Get a really, really great multivitamin. At least, you know, do your research on NAD, but it's a really, really, it's a cell regenerator. Just do your homework on that. You do glutathione. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you can, you can kind of build those out, you know, cell regeneration, and you have to be kind of specific on these things. You know, as you age, especially when you hit 40, 45, everything just starts to change. But a great multivitamin, NAD, really vitamin D3, and reversible. Those are like, now that's a pala.

Reversetol is like basically it's an antioxidant formulation of basically coming from grapes. Okay. And so if you do your studies on it, it's good for your skin, your hair. Again, it's kind of a longevity type of supplementation. What people don't understand now and like when they hear, all the supplementation because you see AG1 and all these, like Instagram is like an infomercial for like all these health things and what have you. There's a couple of basic things and I kind of take a pallet of supplements. Do you do AG1? I don't. I do green vibrance as the one that I use as for

like my superfood greens. It's just got the same. It's just got more, it's just got a little bit more clinical research behind it and like human trials and things where they weren't using animals and things like that because the DNA's different. Right. You know. But, But the dynamic of why the supplementation, and granted, here's the other thing, peptide therapy, injectable, that's something you have to kind of look at, but that's another thing. TRT is a question mark for a lot of people with testosterone therapy because it could be good, it can be bad. But the fact of the matter is, is now when you look at the nutrient density of the food, especially in North America, in the soil, we just don't have nutrient-dense food

anymore growing. So like this supplementation and why you see this rise is because like we're not getting as much as we actually need. Right. So there'll be supplementate because sometimes people look at me and like, man, bring you spend a lot of money on this stuff and like is it all like getting into your bloodstream. You have to research that. Some stuff you need injectable things. Some stuff like your stomach acids are going to kind of process it and then it's going through kidneys and then liver and all these different types of things. So you got to look and see what works. Another thing too is is getting a good detox every month for like, you know, there's some really, really good supplements

and some good companies that make things to help you, like do water fast and things like that. It's an overload. I know I kind of sound like there's a lot going on here, but it was something that I had to learn because... So you do a water fast every month? I try to do at least a three-day water fast every month. Okay.

It's hard. I've heard it's good, though. It's really hard. Well, what it does is it gets rid of what's called your zombie cells. Right. So, you know, and again, see, and the lifeblood of people is water. Like, if you want to drink a Diet Coke or something like that, go for it.

If you want, and I tell people with this, too, I'm like, dude, if you want a cheeseburger, eat a cheeseburger. Just don't eat it every day. Right. Like, if you want, you know, a cookie or something like that, have the cookie, just don't eat it every day. Everything is in moderation. But I promise you, like, once I started to learn how to eat right and, like, you know, getting an executive physical when you can every year, or just getting your blood panel every year,

what people don't practice in this country, and I think certain people are doing better about it, is they don't practice preventative medicine. Yeah, yeah. Which is like, instead of getting on these medications, go to a doctor that you trust or go to a longevity specialist. Yeah, longevity doctor. Yeah. And let them do, you know, really get really thorough blood work, you know, look at a body scan, check everything about you, you know, make sure you're doing, you know, the screenings that you need to be doing at your age, you know. getting a colonoscopy when you have to, you know, making sure that you're checking your heart. Go get, you know, these things are important. Like if you-

There's actually an app now that does the blood work. Yeah, I'm sure. I think it's called Path, maybe. Yeah. And I looked into it. I've never heard of that. I think Huberman's into it or something. Gary Brecker is a great one too.

There's so many good resources of like information things for people to go and find out like more information on things. but like even Brian Johnson the blood work is everything like every guy in his 40s should be having his blood done at least every year absolutely but this app it's like I think it's like $500 a year or something and you can go to um these like quest locations where they do your blood and they take like a very extensive blood panel and then you're in the app and it has your blood and you can start looking at like it helps you find wherever you're at and each marker, finding solutions for like real supplements and things for people to like kind of get like what you're saying. And especially like doing this job and, you know, like if you're touring a lot or, you know, and you don't have to be a musician to tour. Like there's a lot of people that have to travel for work. And when you're in a different environment, different time zones, different weather, all those

types of things. Like the big thing that I've always tried to be an advocate for because it's worked for me is that preventative medicine should be practiced much more. But the individual has that power to do that. And it's just you got to like know where your starting line is. Yeah. That's probably why you can still tour, bro. This is the end of part two.

The conversation continues in part three.